Episode 173: Dr. Sarah Zaldivar ON Harnessing Dopamine to Conquer Food addiction

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (00:00):
So excited for this, guys.

(00:00):
Today, we have a special guestjoining us, Dr.
Sarah Zaldivar.
I'm excited for this.
She brings a wealth of knowledgein exercise physiology,
nutrition, and holistic health.
Dr.
Zaldivar holds a PhD from theUniversity of Miami,
specializing in exercisephysiology and nutrition as a
licensed dietitian and certifiedpersonal trainer.

(00:22):
Dr.
Zaldivar is also a YouTube andInstagram creator.
She serves as an inspiration formany, many people in achieving
their weight loss goals throughnutrition, mindset, and Exercise
and everything in between.
Sarah, welcome to the ketonesand coffee podcast.

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05-0 (00:39):
Thank you so much, Lawrence, for
having me.
Did I say your name right,Lawrence?

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (00:44):
Yes.
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, ma'am.
That's

Yeah, I'm

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130 (00:47):
Lorenz.

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05-02- (00:48):
for the beautiful intro.
Let's, uh, let's dive in.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024 (00:53):
Absolutely.
You know, I want to acknowledgejust how I'm completely in awe
of, you know, what you, therange of topics that you cover.
I mean, you really look, youreally took.
you know, holistic health,holistic healing to a much
higher level.
I mean, which of course, youknow, speaks to your versatility
in covering a wide range oftopics, which I hope we can, you

(01:17):
know, discuss, you know, haveenough time to explore that
today.
just excited to have you on.
How are you, where are youcoming from anyways?
Where are you based?

Thank you, thank you.
So, yeah, so I'm in Ocala,Florida, and, uh, to touch upon,
you know, what you mentioned,the wide range of topics that I
talk about, um, it's becauseeverything is interrelated,
right?
And for me to help my clientsthe way that I help myself, I
had to really understand how tochange everything, everything

(01:46):
about my life, you know, andthat just understanding the
health aspect, but also themindset.
This is the one thing I thinkthat is the most underestimated
component of success in health,in relationships, in your
career.
If you don't have a successmindset.
You're just not going topersist.

(02:06):
You're not going to berelentless You're not going to
frame the failures as thelearning lessons that they are
and so I feel like I've had toreally go and tackle the health
aspect.
I had to tackle the mindsetaspect and the um when you
tackle the mindset aspect yourealize that You probably in
your nine to five.
So, and so I have published thequitting your nine to five, you

(02:28):
know, guide, which I finally didtoo.
I, the last formal employmentthat I had held, held onto was a
teaching, uh, position at MiamiDade college.
I was teaching nutrition there.
And, uh, so finally quit alsolike two weeks ago.
So, you know, everything goestogether if you're hating your
job and you're hating yourbosses and you're hating just
the career path you chose justbecause you've invested in it

(02:50):
for so long and now you feelstuck.
It's like, I just put too muchinto this one path.
What's the point?
Like, it's like, so what?
Even if you did invest all thistime, you have to invest
happiness for the rest of yourlife.
It just makes no sense.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (03:03):
Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's everything's

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (03:05):
love it.
Uh

and the struggle the struggle like
if I hadn't struggled in allthose things I wouldn't have
been able to help other peoplebecause That's what I tell all
my clients your struggle is yourgreatest advantage It's like
don't be mad that this is thatyou have to fix this and this
because once you overcome thatYou're going to be so much more
valuable to humanity and themarketplace as compared to

(03:27):
somebody who just kind ofBreezed through you know, always
always was fit always washealthy Just had to like go a
few times to the gym, you know,so your struggle is you know Hmm
You don't make mistakes.
Mistakes make you.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (03:43):
Wow.
I love it.
I love it already.
Happiness.
Absolutely.
I would love to touch upon that.
hopefully.
But, uh, but at the, at the end,but I wanna touch on your
struggle that you talked aboutthere.
I mean, as someone who's triedand seen all the diets it's
clear.
That one of your deepest passionis about health and wellness,

(04:04):
right?
And weight loss and not justnutrition.
And you talk about exercise andyou want to, I want to get to
talk about dopamine as well.
So that's a big topic that Iwant to discuss that you talked
very eloquently about and how wecan cure binge eating, yo yo
dieting and cravings.
Because I believe that if wecure those things.

(04:24):
I mean, we can all lose theweight and keep that off.
So we'll get to that.
But first, let's talk about thatstory.
The struggle that you talkedabout and what led to you
exploring health and wellness.
Talk about that.

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05-02-2 (04:38):
so ever since I was like, I think
12 I started developing anobsession with weight loss
because of this like casualremark by one of my classmates
like oh Yeah, cuz you're fat orsomething like that like very
casual.
Of course.
I was mortified, you know alittle girl And I wasn't really
like that overweight, but Idefinitely always had a few
extra like Fluff.

(04:59):
I mean, it was never one of theskinny girls, you know, but that
led to eating disorders.
Cause once you start restrictingand not knowing what to eat and
not knowing how to diet, andthen, um, you know, seeing a
dietitian at 14 and putting, sheput us on the food guide pyramid
where it's like the base is allcarbohydrates.
I started eating more carbs asopposed to less in an attempt to
lose weight.

(05:19):
And so that created binge eatingdisorder and that created all
kinds of, um, you know, uh,Disordered, uh, behaviors around
food.
And so then my weight balloonedup to like 60, 63 kilos What is
63 kilos and I remember myweights back when I lived in
Lebanon, which is where I grewup, it's in the metrics.

(05:41):
them.
You just do 63 times 2.
2 and you'll get the you'll getthe weight in pounds.
I prefer not to do math inpublic.
So, um, from there, um, Iobviously to kind of figure it
out.
And brain was like, there's nodietician who's fat, right?
So that's why I chose to go intonutrition diabetics.

(06:03):
And of course, in the first,literally the first, semester,
um, my nutrition professor who Iadore, she's just amazing.
But she was she was very, youknow overweight thinking I was
in shock I was like, but but howyou know, like that was the
first real kind of educationthat told me just knowing Well,
also what we were being taughtis the wrong stuff, right?

(06:25):
We were taught the wrong stuffand also Just even if you know,
like carnivores great justdoesn't mean you're gonna
automatically lose weight,right?
And we can dive into that soThat's that's kind of where why
I did nutrition dietetics andthen eventually, you know a phd
in exercise physiology at theuniversity of miami just to kind

(06:45):
of um, Because I knew I wantedto leave lebanon.
There was no like Good futurefor me a very ambitious
ambitious person and almost allof the other classmates of mine
either like they get married andthey have kids and they stay in
lebanon or You They get marriedand they have kids and they move
to, like, the Middle East, like,in Dubai.

(07:07):
And I just, I'm a very, like,staunch, you feminist, equal
rights, um, gonna tell me what Ican and cannot wear, and, and so
I, even Dubai, people like to,like, Ooh, Dubai is great.
It's like, yeah, well, I, I, seethe signs that they put on the
like, and, like, In arabic,they'll be like you have to like
wear It's like f you I wouldnever live in a that so that's

(07:28):
why I had no other option but toleave And um, and yeah, I
planned it out for like twoyears straight I I was tables as
if even though had my master's Iwas still waiting tables There
is no good jobs there.
So, um, every little dime I had,I put it towards, um, you know,
taking all of the, the teststoo.
I wanted I wanted to guaranteethat I was going to leave.

(07:49):
And so I applied to multipledifferent universities, all the
four graduate schools for a PhD.
I got accepted in and theneventually decided it was, I got
accepted into like Florida StateUniversity, um, Baylor
University, which actually thebest program.
Dakota State University, don'task why I fly there.
um, University of Miami.

(08:10):
And then it was like, hmm,Baylor or U M?
Like, no, I'm going to Miami.
That's Yeah.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (08:17):
So you got this, uh, Do you got
this awareness in you that, uh,is so innate and you, I believe
that you are a true practitionercause you all, you wanted to
practice it yourself.
You're not just there just tolearn these things because all
of these things that you'renoticing, uh, you're picking up
things that.

(08:38):
Some people may not pick uplike, uh, you're one of your
professors would be overweight,but how, right?
You're so aware of that and youwanted to, you know, apply what
you learned to yourself and ifsomething doesn't look right to
you, know, for people, you know,I love how I, I, I, There's
practitioners and there are truepractitioners where they apply

(09:00):
it to themselves, right?
They're not just there to learn,but they're there to observe and
really do, do it themselves.
And if it works, you know,great.
I'll keep it.
Right.
So I believe that a lot of theguests I have on the show is all
are.
You know, true practitionerswhere they came from a struggle

(09:21):
and from that, they overcamethat struggle, learn a lot about
that struggle and find thingsthat works for them.
That, uh, sometimes isunconventional.
Sometimes are, you know, thingsthat are viewed, you know,
radical change, right.

(09:42):
Uh, you know, calling it a dietyou know, ancestral eating, all
that good stuff.

idea.
Let's go back to eating.
The one diet we ate for 99.
99 percent of our existence as aspecies here on Earth.
Isn't it wild that we think thatthat's radical, you know?
Yeah.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (09:59):
Yeah.
it is.
It is wild.
and nowadays it's really hard tostay on a carnivore diet or keto
diet without, you know, thethought of going for a cheat day
because just, you know, ourenvironment is so It is so cool.
You know, the society with thesociety as well that, uh, you

(10:20):
know, pushes all of theseagendas, like for you know, the
food, food, food industry forthe pharmaceutical industry, you
know, just the sickness modelthat we have today, it's just so
hard to stick to a diet.
It's so hard to stick to, youknow, you know, just keep just
keeping the weight off is hardfor a lot of people, right?
You may lose the weight.

(10:41):
But it's, it's hard to keep itoff because of, you know,
cravings because of bingeeating, yo yo dieting.
I think all, all of, you know,the society, uh, and, you know,
the environment that we live in,it's just makes it hard for me
to become

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05- (10:56):
Right?
Because it's addiction, right?
Because people are still, youknow, aren't fully absorbing the
gravity of the situation of whatfood addiction really is, you
know?
Any person is overweight orobese.
It's why?
Why are they overeating beyondwhat their physiological hunger
signals are telling them?

(11:17):
It's addiction, right?
They're not eating to reallyfeel full or satisfied.
They're eating to go back andfeel normal again because
they've destroyed their dopaminecenters in their brain from a
lifetime of food addiction.
And so this is the biggest thatthis is what my dissertation
topic was about.
It was about treating the rootcause of food addiction,

(11:38):
specifically sugar addiction,utilizing the one tool that can
do that, which is exercise in avery specific way.
Not any exercise going to work,right?
Because if you do it the wrongway, there is such a thing as
exercise addiction.
That's the wrong way to do it.
You have to understand how tocreate an exercise program or
prescription so that you canbuild back up your dopamine

(12:01):
centers so that you treat theroot cause of addiction, which
is a destruction of yourdopamine centers in the brain.
So dopamine is aneurotransmitter that makes us
feel happy, excited, productive,um, like high, you know, this is
why people do cocaine orAdderall, which is
pharmaceutical grade cocaine,right?
It's an amphetamine that raises.

(12:21):
Dopamine and makes you feelamazing.
But, um, we don't want to do itin that way.
we want high and we can feelhigh, but not in, uh, not in a
way that's unsustainable.
So what you want to do isinstead of taking a drug like
cocaine or Adderall andthinking, Putting it all at
once, raising your dopamine andthen having the destruction

(12:42):
happen later on.
Cause after every high, there'sa low, what you want to do is
front load the work and do theexercise in the right way so
that you raise your baselinedopamine level.
So let me explain real quick howthat works.
Dopamine gets released from abrain cell and it has to attach
to its receptor on the cellsurface of adjacent brain cells,
and the res, the receptors fordopamine.

(13:04):
There is a bunch of receptors.
The ones that we're mostlyinterested in that's been
studied the most within thefield of addiction is the D two
receptor, right?
Because we have D one, D two, Dthree, D 45, we care about the D
two mainly when it when it comesto addiction.
So with addiction.
When you're taking a drug,whether it's cocaine or whether
it's a cupcake, it's a drug.

(13:25):
It destroys the d2 receptors.
See, because if you're taking adrug like a cupcake or cocaine,
it releases all this dopamineall at once in above normal
levels.
And so your brain, freaks outbecause it doesn't know for how
long this heightened sense ofstimulation is going to last for
because it thinks, is thisperson going to continue taking

(13:48):
lines of cocaine forever and bestimulated and not eat and not
sleep?
They're going to killthemselves.
So let me protect them fromthemselves.
Let me destroy the D2 receptors.
So that even if they're doinglines of coke, it doesn't matter
because if they're releasing allthis dopamine It doesn't have
these two receptors for it tobind to because for dopamine to
exert its effect The dopaminehas to bind to its two receptors

(14:11):
It's like a lock and keysituation when that binding
occurs is when you feel good orhigh depending how much dopamine
got released.
So your brain is really helpingyou when you're in the throes of
addiction, whether it's to ahard drug like cocaine or sugar,
which I would argue is probablyeven worse of a hard drug.

(14:32):
So what it does is starts todestroy the D2 receptors.
So now, even if you're havingthose cupcakes and those cakes,
then at least you're notstimulated forever.
And this is what ends uphappening.
You build tolerance, right?
Eventually, you, your, um, Yourbaseline dopamine activity, your
baseline dopamine is dictated byhow many D2 receptors you have.

(14:52):
So over time, you have less andless and less D2 receptors.
So over time, you're not takingthe drug to feel high anymore.
You're just taking the drug oryou're eating the carbs and the
sugar just to feel normal again.
Because without it, those D2receptors, you have so little of
them that It's very hard to feelto activate them because you
have so little d2 receptors eventhough you're releasing some

(15:12):
dopamine You don't have enoughreceptors to get stimulated.
So you're almost depressed mostof the time And so, um, if
you're not having the sugars orthe carbs, you literally feel

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (15:24):
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Yes.
You know, I can attest thatsugar is worse because it's
accepted and it's normalized andit's hidden in plain sight.
And we all know that you know,chronic diseases starts, you
know, with consuming and, andspiking your blood sugar every
single day, and which leads toinsulin resistance.

(15:44):
And I want to get to talk to youabout that's, that's, thank you
for that explanation.

and the age of onset, right?
We they hook us from when wewere children So the younger the
age of onset of drug use You Theworst it is in terms of long
term sobriety, success rates.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (16:00):
Yeah.
And a lot of kids now from nineto 13 are getting diagnosed, uh,
pre diabetic, right?
And which is, which is crazy tome because a lot of people,
yeah, you know, it, before youget diagnosed type two diabetic,
you are, you've been insulinresistant for years and that's
what, that's what people don'tunderstand.
You know, I consider myself asan abstainer.

(16:23):
Right.
And I noticed that when I wouldallow myself to have a small
piece, you know, this is my own,uh, story, especially if I do it
in the morning.
And once I let myself have one,it always becomes a whole day of
binge.
And the floodgates open and thatone piece always leads to, uh,

(16:45):
you know, you, you say me sayingyou already had one, the day is
somehow unsalvageable for me.
Yeah.
You talked about your ownstruggles with addiction that
you also identify withinyourself.
I want to get to identify peopleto identify this within
themselves.
How were you able to accept thefact that you have an addiction
and what did you do next?

It's funny because I did my
dissertation on the topic and Istill was in denial.
If you just watched that, I was,you know, still doing keto and
doing keto treats.
I even wrote a keto dessertcookbook after I had graduated
with my, with my PhD working onsugar addiction, you know, it's
funny.
Denial is real.
And I think the biggest turningpoint for me was.

(17:28):
When I worked on my dissertationand I had to do like the
literature review, do all theresearch, I was able to include
the research that compared sugarto cocaine and showed like sugar
is four to eight times moreaddictive than cocaine.
Somehow I felt like cocaine,like cause I knew people in my
life that were very functional,happy humans who will do cocaine

(17:52):
here and there.
And so I feel like my personalexperience, that drug is like,
uh, I know people who can do it.
And it's like the next day atthe it's all good.
They're not addicts.
They're not, you know,

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (18:03):
Yeah,

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05-02-2 (18:04):
so it's, it's yeah.
And I think because of YouTubeand working with clients and
researching and all that stuff,eventually I came across the
studies that came out laterafter I had already written my
literature review, which is whyI wasn't aware of them during my
dissertation.
They came out in 2017, pittingsugar against heroin.

(18:26):
And it showed the same thingthat you know sugar is far more
addictive than heroin and by theway when I say sugar I'm talking
about the sweet taste whetherit's from actual sugar or
artificial sweetener It's thesame thing most of the studies

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_1305 (18:38):
right.

use the artificial sweeteners
because they're sweeter thansugar So it's even worse.
It's that sweet taste when yourtaste buds It detects that sweet
taste, it sends that dopaminesignal to your brain.
So I think that was a majorturning point for me, I was
like, wow.
You know, it's like, how can youconsistently have something
that's more addictive thanheroin and expect to be able to
control your food intake?

(19:00):
You know that I think that was amajor turning point for me.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (19:03):
Ah.
Be honest with me, alright?
Now I said I go on an off planmeal once a week, right?
Well, how do you distinguish ahealthy relationship with food
and one that may be addictive?
Because, you know, I can't goLonger than maybe 14 days, you
know, uh, also like I, I want totake my, my wife out, uh, to

(19:26):
dinner, to dinner and my, mydaughter.
So I'm hitting two birds withone stone, but I am having sweet
stuff, uh, once a

Yeah, you're having

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (19:35):
a healthy relationship

You already know if you're having a
an addiction or not if you'rehaving sweet stuff once a week
But then it's not turning into aweek long All out binge, then
you're not really addicted, youknow?
And that's, that's very, I knowit's hard for people to get
that.
especially I've done so manylike content pieces on that

(19:56):
sugar is more addictive thanheroin.
Yes, it is.
It's true.
But at the same time, if youremember like the Vietnam
veterans, like, um, 80 percentof the Vietnam veterans to
heroin during the war when theycame back into a different
environment and in a healthy ahappy Environment they just
stopped they did they didn't allbecome, you know Like 80 percent

(20:19):
went back to normal and only 20percent actually stayed Um
heroin addicts and so it's notso much about the drug.
It's more about your lifeCircumstances your overall
happiness in life, right?
And this is probably why thosecocaine at not the people that I
knew that you know would dococaine and then just be super

(20:41):
You know successful later onit's because they were an
addict.
They yeah, they dabbled in adrug here and there But that was
it, You know, so um

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (20:50):
Yeah,

I'll have

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (20:53):
about that,

know, I share what I eat on, on all of
my social media and you can seelike, you know, Gatorade, um,
sugar free Gatorade and stufflike Sometimes I'll have a Quest
bar there.
It's no longer an addiction, youknow, because I've raised my
baseline dopamine level.
So it doesn't turn into thisinsatiable, out of control event
where it's like, I had it.

(21:15):
And now I just want more and itdoesn't end in day It takes like
a week or two or whatever thecase may be and it's funny over
time I noticed the addictivetendencies They got shorter in
length and the intensity ofwhatever I was choosing got less
in addiction potential Andthat's really important for

(21:36):
people to understand that Youknow, it's not like sugar is the
devil and if I have sugar aftertwo three days of sobriety I'll
never like that's it.
I I just have no control over itIt's like no it's it's a gradual
thing because if you take a drugYou're taking away that dopamine
stimulation that you were usedto so now you took away that

(21:57):
dopamine So now you're runningon empty your brain is like Very
low on the amount of dopaminethat it needs just to function
So you need to work on raisingyour baseline dopamine level and
as you work to raise that eventYou will naturally see the
symptoms of low dopamine likeaddiction will get better and
better and better until They arecompletely extinguished, you

(22:19):
know

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (22:21):
You talk about like occasional
cravings versus like deeperaddictive patterns, right?

Yeah, Yeah, and you will still by the
way one day you're super tired.
You haven't slept in a you knowfor whatever You will still Your
mind still have a craving hereand there even if you're working
to raise your baseline dopamine,you know But it it'll still have
it's not like you will neverever think of sugar ever again
You know what I will say isdon't plan This is the worst

(22:50):
thing for people who have goodaddiction tendencies Don't plan
for a chemium because it's likewhen you're planning for it And
you have a large amount, youknow, it's gonna be the next day
is gonna be hard the day afterthat Actually day two and three
are probably going to be thehardest because that's when the
withdrawals you're in like thethroes of withdrawals From that

(23:14):
drug use incident.
So don't plan for it to as anormal part or um Something that
is gonna help you reach yourfitness goals the reason you
haven't been able to reach yourfitness goals is because of
addiction don't plan for more,you know drug use You know what?
I mean, but if it happens andyou're just you know, and you

(23:35):
need a little bit Don't alsofeel like it's all or nothing
and if I have a tiny bit theni'm a failure It's like no just
pay attention to the trends, youknow, because I used to have,
like, 3, 000 calorie binges of,like, the worst things imagine.
Like, that is in meal, you know?
Like, that happened in years.

(23:57):
Maybe a year.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (23:58):
Mm.

for me, that's

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (24:00):
Maybe talk about that.

life has been like that you know?

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (24:05):
Yeah, talk about that, the techniques
that you do.
Because for me, it's hard to notplan because I don't know.
For me, when I plan my, I don'tcall it cheat now, but I, I call
it off planned meals.
I don't know if that's, youknow, that helps.
But, uh, if, if, if you do planfor it, for me, you're ex,
you're expecting to, to be.

(24:26):
Uh, you know, in a high caloricintake and there's, there's
little, uh, guilt for me as, ascompared to if it's not planned
for me maybe, maybe because I'man abstainer I, I believe that,
you know, if I had one, it'sgoing to turn to be, uh, uh, a

(24:48):
day of binge.
I just can't just have one.
So I had to plan for mine.
I don't, I don't know.
What do you think about that?

Yeah.
It's, uh, my hubby does the samething.
Like he plans his cheat meal andit's not like he's not
constantly waiting for the day.
It's like he loves the stuff.
It's not like he

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (25:05):
Yeah.

any sort of, you know, doesn't care.
No, he loves sweet stuff.
But he'll plan it and he'll doit once a week.
A week and that's it.
And like the next day he's backto eating nothing but meat, you
know, um, that that is a verygood point because you feel you
are in control that what isaddiction is the feeling of
being out of control.
So if you are in control, thenyou can't say that that's an

(25:29):
addiction.
right?
Because you are planning outthis specific time where you can
indulge and then, and then whenyou do that and you only have it
on the planned day and you'renot breaking the word to
yourself and there you have it,you know, this is why discipline
is so important with addiction.
And this is why I don't likethe, um, the AA, you know, way

(25:51):
of doing things.
Like I'm an know, you identifyas an addict and I have no power
over it, It's like, well, if yousay you have no power over it,
what do you think is going tohappen?
You know, you won't have powerover it, right?
So, I agree with that in that,yeah, like it's like, it's not
so much about the drug like wewere saying earlier.
It's more your, the way that youinteract with that behavior.

(26:14):
You know, kind of, because youhave addiction, you go to
different behaviors.
It's not always an internaldrug, you know, like shopping
addiction, things like that.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (26:23):
Does it ever get cured?
If somebody is addicted, can yoube, uh, can you reduce that into
just like occasional cravings?
Can you be when you're, you havea past behavior of addiction.
Can that be, can you say thatyou're cured at some point?
Yeah.

yeah, I 1, 000 percent can say that
not just in my experiencepersonally But even with working
with clients and applying my thebrain rehab protocol that I've
developed that you can see Youknow in the dopamine brain guide
It's the same for everybody, youknow, they follow the plan and
they do the work and they readtheir baseline dopamine levels.

(27:05):
Like, yeah, they're cured.
They literally don't have, ofcourse, it's never going to be
100 percent never, ever, evercrave, you know,

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (27:15):
Yeah.

Cause one day you're going to be
tired.
One of these days, something'sgoing to happen.
That is going to kind of remindyou of old patterns.
Um, but yeah, it's, it, it, italso depends like, okay, so what
is Right?
Like, how do you define cure?
I define it as a feeling ofbeing just in control and
feeling like.
They're

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (27:35):
it.

just you're in control of your food
and take your in control of yourhealth You're in control of your
fitness and I can definitelyattest to the fact that yes This
not just with me because I canjust say it about myself But
what if that doesn't work onother people but when you take
that program and you apply it toother people It's still working
which you know, obviously makesme the happiest, you know, yeah

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13 (28:01):
Awesome.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it that you said you'rein control.
That's when you know, right?
You know, occasional cravings,like comparing to addictive
patterns, right?
The difference is you're incontrol, right?
Amazing.
I love that.
I love that.
You know, let's talk aboutexercise.
Now you talked about.

(28:21):
You know, exercise, how itreduces addictive behaviors.
I know a lot of people whoexercise just so they can eat
whatever they want, right?
Which is insane.
But for me, if I would exercise,so it's for me, it's I would
exercise.
So it's harder for me to bingebecause I put so much effort
into working out and exercisingjust to eat like crap.

(28:43):
can you talk about how exercisecan actually reduce addictive
behaviors?

How exercise?

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (28:48):
work?
Yeah.

Yeah.
The reason why the base of mybrain rehab protocol is focused
on exercises because addictionis a destruction in your D2
receptors and a bunch of other,you know, dopamine related
reactions too.
But let's just focus on the D2receptors.
You destroy because you can, wehave brain scans, right?

(29:10):
If people are overweight orobese, they have less and less
D2 receptors, similar to cocaineaddicts, similar to alcoholics,
similar to, um, heroin addictsis the same brain scans.
You can see in of addictions,they all have the similar, um,
destruction in the number of D2receptors.
So that's addiction anddestruction in D2 receptors,

(29:30):
meaning very low baselinedopamine activity.
Then, okay.
Okay.
The cure is, let's raise D2receptors, right?
How do we do that?
With a very specific type ofexercise.
The exercise that you hate todo.
It is the exercise that is atthe edge of your comfort.

(29:51):
Why?
Because dopamine is ananesthetic.
You gotta give The brain areason to create more of that
anesthetic chemical.
What is the reason?
It's like I'm doing somethingthat is so painful physically
That's so uncomfortable thatit's sending the signal to the
brain to adapt to this level ofdiscomfort by raising its

(30:12):
production of the Anestheticdopamine and of course
endorphins all the other stuffbut all roads lead to dopamine
at the end They all culminate inthe increased production of
dopamine and also due toreceptors and so If you're
doing, let's say a joyride, acardio joyride, like a really
fun little jog that you'vealready adapted to, and you're

(30:32):
having a blast doing it, that'snot really uncomfortable.
That's not really at the edge ofyour limits.
That's not really going to senda strong enough message to your
brain to tell it like, I needmore of the.
Pain relieving anestheticdopamine.
So the more uncomfortable youget the more you're gonna
release dopamine And here's thething Let's say you start

(30:55):
working at the edge of yourdiscomfort to get faster with
running to lift heavier weightsThe more you do that the higher
your fitness level gets thehigher the D2 receptors or your
baseline dopamine level getsbecause now your brain is gonna
release even D2 receptors, butif you're just Remain complacent

(31:16):
then you're going to be stuckhere And so if let's say you
yeah, you improved your fitnesslevel to a certain extent, but
then you got complacent then Itmay or may not be enough for you
You decide because if you're atthis level and you're you decide
you don't want to push yourselfbeyond this level But you're
still having cravings and you'restill feeling out of control
here and there.

(31:36):
Maybe it's better than what itwas but you're still not really
where you want to be, thenthat's your sign right there
that you need a higher level offitness, meaning a higher level
of baseline dopamine levelbecause they're one the maximum
weight you can lift at the gymand the fastest that you can run
equals your baseline dopaminelevel.

(31:58):
So if you want a higher baselinedopamine level, you have to get
faster.
You have to lift heavier.
And more and more and more andmore.
And I say, why cap it knowing Ijust become the super breed of a
human that you can be

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (32:10):
Yeah, Why is the body doing that?
I mean, just going back to ourhistorical ancestors, like, why
does the body reward us withdopamine as we get stronger?
isn't that something that's, uh,

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05 (32:24):
because it wants to be prepared because
if you keep hitting it with liketraumatic physical exercise,
it's like, what is happening?
This is too painful.
Let me adapt your brain and bodyadapts to anything you

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (32:37):
Ah.

dr--sarah-zaldivar_1_05 (32:38):
stretch your muscle, right?
When you stretch your musclebody adapts and it elongates the
muscle.
the muscle so that you're, youhave more range of motion.
The next it, it always wants tobe prepared to what demands
you're placing on it.
It adapts to everything you giveit.
That's why it wants to beprepared.
It keeps your baseline dopamineactivity elevated because it

(32:59):
seems that every day you'retraumatizing it.
And so it doesn't want to betraumatized, which is why it's
like the best way not to betraumatized is to be prepared
and have more of this, um, painrelieving or anesthetic chemical
dopamine.
the of it, either the less, um,the pain and discomfort you're
going to feel, you're going toadapt, right?
And so, and, and, and again,also higher levels of serotonin,

(33:21):
also higher levels of betaendorphins.
But I focus on dopamine becauseIt's a chain reaction of events
when you release all thosechemicals that all eventually
lead to dopamine being releasedall roads lead to dopamine,
know, so whether it's anaddiction, whether it's an
exercise, you increase thebaseline level of all of the

(33:44):
mood regulating and moodboosting.
Neurotransmitters you really youincrease all of them, but if you
look at how it happens They allkick start the release of one
another until eventually thelast thing to be released is
dopamine,

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (33:56):
I want to get to the practical
stuff though, because I want totalk about, you know, any, any
of your clients that you help.
Because I, without over exertingthemselves, because I know
there's also this factor that ifyou over exert yourself you
know, people would, uh, getmaybe, maybe they'll do it for a
week, but then they're so,they're gonna be so sore that,

(34:19):
uh, they're traumatizing their,their, their brain, or, And it's
so traumatizing to them, like adiet, just, just going on, uh,
uh, broccoli and chicken breastdiet, you know, it's hard for
people to, uh, think about thatbecause they got so traumatized.
So how do you gradually increaseyour, your intensity?

(34:42):
Let's say, I don't, I want to bea little bit anxious, like going
into the gym, but not so anxiousthat I won't go.

And you said it right?
there Gradually, right?
I'm not you don't go from beingsedentary to running at 8 miles
per hour Right.
We like create a plan where byevery day you're as like,
here's, here's the best way tolook at it.
When you start working out, ifit feels super fun and it's
like, Oh, that's not it.

(35:13):
That's it.
Now we're not saying destroyyour body in one day, cause then
it's going to take you So manydays to recover that we're going
to waste from, you know, gettinginto the habit of waking up and
working out every day.
So I prefer to go gradually,like you said, just a little
bit.
So what I do every, um, for,with my training, for example, I

(35:34):
just hit a new PR with running.
I eight miles per hour.
So I'll do eight miles per hourfor a few days, then I'll go and
I'll push myself beyond that.
I'll do, okay.
8.
1 miles per hour for a few daysor even a week.
Then it's 8.
2 miles per hour is such agradual increase in intensity
where it doesn't take me out forfull few days where I can't work

(35:57):
out.
Cause I just, you know, pushedmyself so much.
You could decide to do it likethat, but then risk of injury
goes up.
And if, I mean, an injury canreally take you out for months,
you know?
So that's why it's notrecommended.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (36:13):
So where did you, where, where did
you start though, with running?
I just wanna have a perspectivehere.
When you started running, canyou go back to that time?
What, What, was your time?
back then and what was

really was a runner from, I remember, I
definitely have the genes forit.
I remember even without anytraining whatsoever, I would
always win like the track races,um, without any training.
So definitely I do have likethose type actually did the 23
and me gene tests and doesconfirm that I do have more of
that.
I'm like kind of built for arunner.
Um, So I've always, um, in mytwenties wouldn't say, no, I

(36:50):
wouldn't say I would run thatmuch.
Cause I, I didn't really becomesuper consistent with running
until I bought my firsttreadmill, I would say.
And so that was in my twenties,um, late twenties.
Um, I for me to remember justknow, that I didn't really push
myself the way I push myselfright now.
I was kind of like, just, um,more of a joy ride, you know,

(37:14):
let's go for a jog.
Like that was training, but it'shelpful still because it.
makes me very comfortablefeeling, um, like you know,
sweating.
I've had clients their lives,and that was a major roadblocks
like it provides a majorresistance.
Um, and then Yeah, I would Iremember client of mine because

(37:35):
she hadn't she hadn't really hadthis level of exercise And I'm
not saying that I was like astar athlete or anything, but I
definitely had a lot moreExperience with movement
starting from when I was ateenager and so for me It kind
of comes easier because Istarted sooner and I remember
thinking that for her in her 30smid 30s She would literally

(37:58):
break down crying when I wouldexplain to her how important it
is for us to push her fitnesslevel.
And the biggest, biggestbreakthrough we got after months
of coaching was Three Joggingsessions in one week.
It was 30 minutes each and itwas like a very light jog, you
know And it was very hard forher to develop the habit.
It was she just uh Would wouldfeel so uncomfortable sweating,

(38:23):
you know So the I and I rememberthinking wow, like I must have
gone through that but not reallyrealized it It's just because
i've been doing it for so long.
It's just I enjoy it nowanything you do you keep
repeating it becomes easier YouBut yeah, for some people it can
be a little traumatic.
Um, you might, you're going tofeel lightheaded.
You're going to feel, um, veryweird.

(38:44):
You're going to feel nauseouswhen you really start way and
pushing yourself.
This does not mean there issomething wrong with you.
This is normal to everybody.
You know, those feelings.
you.
are going to feel them and youknow, i'm not saying completely
disregard any safety measuresI'm, just saying that if you
don't Understand that it'shappened to all of us the nausea

(39:08):
the lightheadedness the feelingsick the feeling, you know Then
you know it it's very common andit's just your body and brain
Adapting to this level ofdiscomfort and eventually it
goes away.
I don't feel that way anymore.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (39:22):
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And running eight miles in anhour, that must have, you must
have done it gradually, right?
With anything that we do.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not saying I'm running eightmiles.
That's a good point.
I'm not doing eight miles perhour nonstop for a whole hour.
I'm resting and starting againand resting and starting again

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (39:41):
Yeah.

and get like a mile or mile and a
half continuous.
Yeah.
but I can definitely do sevenmiles per hour for like a mile
straight before I walk a littlebit for like a couple minutes
and then Um, yeah.
So yeah, like that's another waythat you can push you know,
here's what I recommend justlike you go and you lift weights

(40:02):
and you start with warm upsets,you do a lighter weight and then
a slightly heavier weight andthen a slightly heavier until
you hit your working set, whichis the heaviest weight you can
possibly lift.
I recommend doing the same thingwith running.
Start with a light jog and thenand then walk a little bit.
And recover, then do anotherlight jog, but that's a little
bit faster.

(40:22):
And then walk a little bit.
And then those are kind of likesome warm upsets.
And then you start increasingthe intensity more and then you
walk.
And then those last two or threesets, what you're doing is
sprints.
For like 3 miles.
And then you, when you do itthat way, you are working your,

(40:43):
um, kind of like endurancelevel, and you're also super fat
part of your.
Training, you know, so you'rereally, you're really pushing
yourself to the limit at the endof every workout.
You really are knowing what yourlimits are.
And that is so motivatingbecause now I can say I'm
hitting my limits.
eight miles per hour.

(41:03):
Next week, I'll be able to hit8.
1, 8.
2 miles per hour.
In a month or so, I'll be atnine miles per hour.
And that, I know that that's theedge of my physical ability.
And that equals my baselinedopamine level.
So it's just seeing that,understand what's happening to
my brain.
You will start noticing also thefeelings you get, the mood that

(41:23):
you're in, The way you interactin life, the amount of focus you
have, the amount of discipline,your discipline becomes so much
easier when your baselinedopamine level is elevated
because every time you deploydiscipline, you're using up some
of your stores of the dopaminepool in your brain.
So if you have a higher baselinedopamine level, you have a lot
more dopamine stores in yourbrain when you are actually

(41:44):
deploying discipline and you'reusing up some of that dopamine.
It's not really, you can barelyfeel the difference in the
dopamine.
It's not really dropping so muchbecause you deploy discipline.
So you're not going to.
Feel the resistance in theemotional pain that people
associate with discipline, whichis why they don't like to deploy
it.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (42:01):
Mm.
So running or cardio is not somuch for weight loss, right?
Like it's, it's much more aboutreleasing dopamine and reducing
addictive patterns, right?
mental strength.

it's, it's about discipline and mental
strength.
Um, because that's really whatfitness and health is about.
It's Like, we all Cake is bad.
Protein is good.
Like, at the very basic level,we all kind of all know what we
need to do.
not, so it's not really aknowledge problem, right?
It's more of a emotional painproblem.

(42:38):
The moment you do what you'resupposed to do, you're doing it.
Feeling good, almost depressed.
And some days, you know, to thepoint where it's like, F it, I'm
just going to eat whatever andalso, and then, and you, and
then you to like make up excusesin your mind why it's okay this
time and you'll have a betterplan next time.
But then the next plan happensand you're still feeling the

(42:58):
same emotional pain when it,when, when it really comes down
to it you know, This is why,like, the first week or two on a
diet is, is like, fantastic.
You're so motivated, you'reproud of yourself for taking a
step, but then that's whenreally the cravings, so.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (43:15):
Yeah.
You know, I, I don't claim tobe, you know, a weightlifter,
but if I go two days or morewithout working out I, I look, I
look for it.
I get depressed.
You talked about like just, uh,addiction with, uh, Working out
or exercising.
Talk about that a little bit.

(43:35):
uh, I'm curious to learn abouthow you can be addicted with,
you know, over, over working outyourself.

Oh, like how do you get addicted to
exercise?
There's so many, yeah, right?
That's the question, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, so there's so many umpeople that you can look up I
mean you can just go And you cansee uh, so many uh,
documentaries done on thosetopics, especially exercise
addiction where people get Umhooked on the high you get from

(44:04):
running.
It's usually long It's a cardiojoy, right?
This is why I say it's not a Thebase of my protocol is the
complete opposite of what peoplethink of when they're thinking
cardio, they're thinking, Oh,just a light jog.
And then if you do a light jogenough times, you start to
realize some, at some points youget this high from it.
This release from the betaendorphins where it feels good.

(44:25):
So people can, can get hooked onthat, where they are running for
eight, my four, eight hours in aday.
I'm doing multiple fun cardiosessions that the problem with
that is that you can startgetting hooked to the endorphins
that are being released, but theproblem is that the recovery
that it's going to require fromthose exercise sessions.

(44:47):
It's hard for you to allow yourbody to recover

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (44:50):
it.

you're hooked on that feeling.
Going back and you keep goingback and you can't really sit
still for a few days to allowyour body full recovery And
that's where it can become aproblem.
And it's basically you're doingthe cardio in a way What you
what you're doing is you'reyou're avoiding the
uncomfortable feeling That I amtelling you you should seek out

(45:11):
when you're sprinting whenyou're jogging When you're
working out that the edge ofyour limit, it's you really only
want to count the reps thathurt, whether it's the strength
training or whether it's therunning, the only the only ones
that matter are the ones thathurt because those are the all
that's that feeling ofdiscomfort is the only thing
that's going to send a signal tothe brain to create more

(45:31):
dopamine and more endorphins andmore of those Baseline level of
those neurotransmitters so thatyour baseline goes up so that
from the moment you wake up tothe moment You go to sleep.
You're high.
You're feeling great.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (45:42):
I love that.
I love it.
So every time I'm uncomfortablewith a workout, I'm going to be
thinking about this.
That I'm releasing dopamine and,you know, less depressive
moments.
Ha Ha ha ha

you're up regulating your baseline How
motivating is that?
So and the only way you can upregulate your baseline is
Through how much discomfort youcan handle And so this is why I
only count the reps that hurtwhether it's with strength

(46:18):
training or whether it's run Theonly thing that matters is the
amount of time you spend feelinguncomfortable.
That's it.
Other than that.
It's useless might as well Justrelax lie to yourself

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_130525 (46:28):
Ha ha ha ha.
That's masterful.
If you master that, you'll besuperhuman in a couple of years.
Right?
I mean, if you just,

super breathe metabolism.
Yeah, and I have another guide Ishould I should Launch it really
so super breed mindset.
I love that notion of being asuper breed because because you
have the ability That yeah

lorenz_1_05-02-2024 (46:56):
Absolutely.
Where can people find you?
Where can people find that,those links?
Tell us about it.

Yeah, so you can just go I don't know
if my name is going to show onthe youtube, um, you know thing
that we're doing Um, it's uh,dr.
zoldivar.
Um, sarah with an zoldivar um Zl d i v a r.
So my website com As all theguides, actually go to
drsirazoliver.
com forward slash shop and youwill see all of the guides that

(47:24):
I have the dopamine body, whichis the weight loss guide, the
dopamine brain.
Dopamine brain is everythingwe're talking about today.
It's the brain rehab protocolthat I developed that is based
off of my dissertation at, youknow, that I worked on at the
University of Miami, how toboost your baseline level of
dopamine.
Um, you know, I have a monstermindset guide.
You were how important mindsetis, um, at the hundred K social

(47:47):
media guide where I break down,know, everything I did to quit
all the jobs and become my ownboss, making six figures and how
you can do the same.
Because that might be the reasonwhy you're having, you know,
addictive tendencies, if you'rejust hating the career path,
you're in your, you'll So, yeah.
And then of course, you know,Instagram, dr.
Sarah dot Zaldivar and YouTube,my name, and it's easy to find

(48:10):
me.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13 (48:11):
Awesome.
Dr.
Sarah, thank you so much forcoming on, sharing your story
with us here today and talkingabout just amazing topics here
that, uh, you know, frankly, Iwould love to practice myself
and you know, who doesn't wantless depressive moments, right?
I feel you know, this is a signfor everybody to just get on

(48:35):
that treadmill or get outsideand get uncomfortable, right?
And whenever you getuncomfortable,

true.
I wanted to show you mytreadmill, but I have too many
things on it right now.
Yes, exactly.
It's like, you know, who doesn'twant to feel like you can do
anything you set your mind know?

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (48:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, and that idea thatjust get uncomfortable and you
release those dopamines tobecome a superhuman yourself,
super breed, you know, that's anidea that I want to you know,
one day.
Be part, be a part of.
So thank you for sharing thesetopics with us.

(49:14):
Uh, such a interesting topicshere.
I would really listen to this.
If you guys take notes, youknow, get on, uh, the
description down below, checkout Dr.
Sarah Zaldivar her links and,uh, her courses and, uh, make
sure that, uh, you alsosubscribe to her YouTube
channel, Instagram, follow heron Instagram.
Get most of, uh, all of thesetopics that she talks about very

(49:38):
eloquently on her social.
So thank you again, Dr.
Sarah, for coming on and sharingyour story.

Thank you so much for having me.
I had a fantastic time, youknow, getting to know you and,
you know, chatting and hopefullywe'll do this again.

lorenz_1_05-02-2024_13052 (49:55):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
Dr.
Sarah.
Bye bye.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 173: Dr. Sarah Zaldivar ON Harnessing Dopamine to Conquer Food addiction