Episode 179: Dr. Shawn Baker Talks Carnivore Diet and Metabolic Health

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (00:00):
Hey guys, I'm Lawrence and I'm so
grateful to have you joining meon this journey.
Every week I bring in guests tohave the knowledge and
experience to help you on yourown journey to a better health.
So outside of this guy, stickaround today.
We have an honor of hosting aman that needs no introduction,
an incredible figure of health,a role model for a lot of
people.
Dr.

(00:20):
Sean Baker, an orthopedicsurgeon, an international
speaker, best selling author,and a world champion athlete.
He is widely recognized as aleading authority on nutritional
therapy and its impact onchronic diseases.
It's an honor.
Dr.
Baker, welcome to the KetonesinkCoffee Podcast.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24 (00:37):
thanks for having me.
I'm excited to get to chat withyou and chat with your audience.
So I appreciate you giving methe opportunity.
Thank you.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11 (00:42):
Awesome, man.
You know, I want to start uswith, you know, many years ago,
you did an interview 2017changed a lot of people's lives
on the Joe Rogan podcast,talking about the carnivore diet
took the world by storm,completely shook the health
community.
A lot of people now swears by ittalks about how they first

(01:05):
started.
Uh, when they saw thatinterview.
Were you surprised about howthat was, uh, received?
Like, just looking back, uh, onthat time.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (01:15):
Yes and no.
I mean, I, you know, when I wenton Rogan's podcast for the first
time, I didn't realize theimpact that he had.
I didn't really, I wasn't reallypaying attention, honestly, to
his podcast, really any podcastto that degree.
I mean, while I knew what I wasexperiencing and seeing was very
powerful and had the potentialto impact a lot of lives, which
it has.
And I certainly understood thatat the time.
That's one of the reasons, know,I talk about it and talked about

(01:38):
it then and still talk about ittoday.
Uh, but yeah, I mean, it was, itwas, it was kind of very rapid
the way, you know, all of asudden you, you go from someone
who's relatively obscure to nowa lot of people know who you are
and like, yeah, they all haveopinions about you.
Many people.
in fact, even today, most

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (01:53):
Yeah.
Heh heh.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (01:55):
kind of nutty, stupid.
I look ugly.
I smell bad, whatever.
I mean, I get all these sort ofthings put my way.
But yeah, I mean, it's, it'sbeen, uh, a fun, interesting,
entertaining sort of thing.
This experience, I mean, to behonest, I mean, I've gotten to,
sort of talk to all kinds ofpeople around the world from,

(02:17):
from politicians to professionalathletes to and celebrities to,
you know, and, and of course allthe just day to day people,
which, which I certainly enjoytalking to.
So it's been, uh, it's, it wasdefinitely a life altering in a
way that I would never expectit.
You know, if you had asked me 10years ago, I'd be doing this
stuff, I'd say I wouldn't have.
In my

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (02:36):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (02:36):
have anticipated what I'd be doing
today, you know, I mean it'syeah life is funny that way I
guess

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I interviewed a
lot of people here, you know,some of the leading experts on
the ketogenic lifestylemetabolic therapies.
They all, a lot of them talkabout how they found your
interview and started theirjourney.
Uh, at that time, which is, youknow, that interview has a lot,

(03:03):
uh, had a lot of attention toit.
Changed a lot of people's lives.
Also with that, with attention,you know, also comes a lot of
negativity that he talked about.
But what I love about it is theway you handled it.
You know, even though I thoughtsome of these questions do not
deserve your attention, youstayed professional.
You know, you're cool, but Iwant to ask, like, how are you

(03:26):
able to treat each criticismwith just calmness, man, and
patience, like to give even adetailed rebuttal, right?
What, what do you get out of it?
Like some of these people areyou know, like you, you
mentioned earlier, a few things,but, uh, you know, just you
answered it with suchprofessionalism, man.
Well, what do you get out ofthat?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (03:45):
Well, I mean, I mean, I think some
people are asking for a generalsense of curiosity.
I just don't understand.
I've been taught in a way thatis not consistent with what
we're what we're seeing underobservation.
I mean, there's some people arejust malicious, and I kind of
more or less just kind ofdismiss them or ignore them.
But I think you know, I mean,criticism.
I mean, it's words.
I mean, you know, you know, theold sticks and stones may break

(04:06):
my bones.
You know, it's it's care.
I mean, I've been in a lot worsesituations where, you know,
there was real threat to harmof, you know, myself and others.
So, you know, I put that inperspective.
So somebody, you know, saying,saying negative things about me,
it doesn't, it doesn't botherme.
I mean, I could care less.
It's just, it's more of areflection on that person than

(04:27):
it is on me.
I mean, I'm generally out heretrying to help people.
people.
I'm generally out here trying toI'm, and I'm not perfect and I
don't know everything and I makemistakes and I'm wrong about
plenty of things, I'm sure.
But the, the, the, the is, is,is genuine.
And I think I've, know, I mean,and a lot of people, there's a
lot of people credit this, but Ithink I've generally helped a

(04:49):
lot of people and I want tocontinue to do that.
And so, you know, in thebeginning, obviously it was so
new that a lot of people, youknow, we're not scurvy.
What about, you know, where, howdo you go to the bathroom?
I mean, these, these set ofquestions, which, I mean, it's,
I mean, I'm not dead.
I mean, it's like, it's, it'slike one of these questions
where it's like, like, it'stotally out.
Then you, you talk, you know,you can kind of speculate as why
it may be going.

(05:09):
We don't really know for sure.
All we know is what happens, youknow, what, what, what happens,
what doesn't happen.
And so, obviously as aphysician, my whole life is.
that's part of what being adoctor is.
It's educating people.
I mean, that's, that's the,that's the origin of the word.
And so even when I waspracticing as a surgeon, I mean,
half of my practice waseducating people on their

(05:30):
condition, educating on why it'shappening, educating them on
what can be done about that.
And so it's just, it's just anatural evolution of that.
Now, like I said, I tend to havefun sometimes, you know,
sometimes I, you know, I got Ilike to goof around.
I like to have fun.
Sometimes I you know, and Irespond sometimes in ways people
don't like me to.
They think I should only talkthis way and be a certain, they

(05:52):
have a certain sort ofexpectation for what it is.
But, know, uh, sometimes Idisappoint people.
It's, it is what it is.
I mean, you can't, you know, Ithink there's one of those
things where you can't pleaseeveryone.
If you try to please everybody,you end up pleasing no one,
particularly yourself.
So try to be as, as real as Ican because it's, you know, I'm,
I'm, I think people that meetme, You know, our, our sort of

(06:17):
not, maybe not surprise.
I mean, social media isinteresting in that it, it's,
it's a weird platform.
You know, things like Twitter,where you got a hundred and what
used to be 140 charactercharacters, and all you had time
to say something.
It's tough to project nuanceand, uh, So I certainly enjoy
doing these longer form sort ofthings so I can kind of
elaborate on a position becausea lot of people will make an

(06:39):
assumption and that's the way itabout anybody.
You look at one video, a 10second clip out of a video taken
out of context and people makethese, you know, huge
assumptions.
And that's the way this socialmedia stuff works.
A lot of people reacting to someSort of a fragment of a, of a
situation and, and, and gettingin, you know, becoming outraged

(07:00):
or feigning outrage or whateverit might be.
So I don't, I don't mind.
I mean, so some of the, like,like for instance, engaging with
a lot of these sort of ethicalvegans is, is kind of a waste of
time outside of andentertainment purposes only.
Sometimes I'll engage in it, butI used to, I used to make a good
faith effort effort to try to,you know, answer the questions.
Cause then I realized theyweren't done in good faith and

(07:21):
it was just, it was just themjust.
You know, kind of spewing their,their propaganda and, and so I
don't do that so much anymore,but you know, and generally
sometimes the questions I getare, are so odd or I've already
answered them and people justdon't even read the thing I post
or listen to the video I put outthere.
So but I try my best.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (07:40):
You know, I'd love to confess, like
I enjoy following your content,especially versus vegans.
But, uh, like you said, youknow, you're just being real and
that's what we need.
You know, a lot of people justwant to say what you want to
hear.
Right.
And that's what I love about,you know, just following your,
uh, following your content.
I want, I want to go back intime with you as a young

(08:02):
practicing orthopedic surgeon.
Particularly at the point wherewhen you discovered the high
fat, uh, carnivore, uh, diet, ormaybe when you started ketogenic
diet transformed your health forthe better, uh, matter of weeks.
And as excited as you were totell the world about this, you
soon found that the world didn'tshare that enthusiasm.

(08:24):
Of course, you had, you know,You know, the, the battle, the
legal battles versus the, thevery hospital that you work for,
they told you that you weregiving your patients too much
options, which is so, so funny.
And at the time, instead ofgoing through surgeries, you
took the time to teach yourpatients how to, you know,
change your lifestyle and thehospital you work for didn't

(08:47):
like that.
Looking back, what would youhave done differently, if at
all, you think?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (08:52):
Oh gosh.
A lot, a

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (08:54):
Just curious.
Yeah.
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (08:57):
when I went.
I mean, I was a guy that, Istill am, I'm a guy that
believes that doing the rightthing generally is what we're
supposed to do, right?
I mean, I think that's the wayit is.
And, you know, in medicalpractice, you know, as long as I
try to do my best and do theright thing for the patients,
that is, you know, what you'resupposed to do when and, but you
know, when I found out that ifyou try to do the right thing

(09:19):
and it doesn't make a lot ofmoney.
a hospital, then that's aproblem, which was very, very
shocking to me.
So I would have, you know, Iwould have, you know, gotten
lawyers involved earlier than Idid.
I didn't know, you know, I wasjust, you know, this whole
process, I mean, and basically,just a quick recount of the
story.
I mean, I was, We were trying toget patients to lose weight so

(09:40):
they could have kneereplacements because they were
too, you know, too obese andthey're having complications.
So we decided, well, lose weightat any way you can, whatever,
you know, it didn't matter.
They said, just get them to loseweight.
And so I had opted for using aketogenic diet at that time.
This is way back in 2013, 2014,something like that.
And know, my patients werelosing.
Some of them were, were, I mean,many of them lost weight.

(10:01):
A lot of them didn't do thediet, which, you know, It's, you
know, I mean, that's just theway it is.
A lot of people won't changetheir diet, but I mean, a lot of
them were actually, uh, evenwithout losing much weight,
we're seeing that their pain wasgone, you know, or essentially
gone or minimized to the pointthat surgery became unnecessary
in my view.
And, so that was, I thought agreat thing.

(10:21):
You know, but the hospital said,no, that's not a great thing
that we need the revenue.
So we bet.
So we pay for the pediatricsdepartment, you know, and so on
and so forth.
And so,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (10:29):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (10:30):
so anyway, I mean, the, the, the
long, you know, I ended up along legal battle.
I ended up surrendering mymedical license.
I ended up getting it rightback, you know, after, after I
got into a true independentreview on the whole situation.
But yeah, I mean, so it left areally bad taste in my mouth, so
to speak for medicine in generaland how it is.
And, and, and so, I mean, if youlook at the way, I mean, I think

(10:50):
there's great physicians andmost physicians are good people
wanting to do the right thingand they're very smart, but
they're just in a system that isjust, it's set up to give people
procedures and pills.
I mean, that's all we're set upfor.
I mean, you think about, I just,in fact, I just did a video on
youtube about this.
I mean, as an orthopedicsurgeon, I had an entire It's a
multi million dollar facility,clinic, nurses, you know,
nursing assistants, x raytechnicians, a lab, physical

(11:13):
therapists, an operating room,which costs 200 a minute to run,
uh, recovery room, anesthesiastaff, you know, guys standing
around and x ray, you know, withlead aprons on, they'll stand
there for three hours taking xrays while I'm doing surgery.
I mean, this, this is all set upso I can do this one damn
procedure, right?
when you think about.
What do you have if you want tohave somebody do live cell?

(11:34):
What do you have to, what kindof support do you have for that?
Well, maybe you might have adietician that you can send
somebody to, who's going to givethem, you know, FDA, you know,
the USDA food pyramid.
And that's it.
If the insurance company,because you, you've gotten
almost no

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (11:47):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06 (11:48):
dedicated to lifestyle as a position,
nothing to support you.
So it's hard to do anything,even if you want to do it.
why I started Rivero.
I mean, this is what our companydoes.
We have, you know, we havecoaches, we have, uh, uh, we
have, you know, round the clockmonitoring.
We have, you know, dailyfeedback, you know, we have, uh,
physicians that are open to getit there that want to do the
lifestyle stuff.

(12:08):
So it's, it's, you know, it's amatter of just.
What we're set up for is ahealth care system and we're not
set up for a lifestyle.
And you know, I think if we wereto

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (12:16):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (12:17):
gosh, even 10 percent of the financial
resources in the lifestyle, wecould literally completely
change the outlook of chronicdisease in this country.
You know, most of theprocedures, most of the
surgeries I did wereunnecessary.
I mean, in retrospect, I mean,they could have

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (12:29):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (12:30):
I mean, yeah, you let it go long
enough and it becomes end stage.
Yeah, you're kind of stuck, butmost of that should have been
taken care of years, if notdecades ahead of time, if we had
a good health care system, butwe don't.
And that's.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (12:42):
Mm.
And I mean, looking back, right,you, you regained your license
back eventually started, uh, thecarnivore diet, right?
Because, also, I want to go backbecause you could have taken
them to state court, right?
And you probably could have won,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (12:59):
mean, it's

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:00):
but what happened was,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (13:01):
but

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:01):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (13:01):
was, it was

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (13:02):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (13:02):
you know, I mean, the hospital
suspended my privileges in, inbasically what's called a peer
review process, which is reallykind of, it's, it's a really
weird thing because you have,you don't even know what they're
accusing you of.
They just can accuse you of

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:14):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (13:15):
And they don't even, they don't have
to tell you who the accusationcomes from.
They don't have to share any ofthe data with you say.
We think you did bad

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:20):
Wow.
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (13:21):
And this all came as a result of me,
you know, as

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:24):
Mm.
Bruh.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (13:25):
I'm doing a lifestyle, I don't care
that you don't like it or not,that then I got hit with this
peer review thing.
And you know, it was, it was oneof those things where, I mean,
I, the details are pretty longand lengthy.
I don't know if that thispodcast is the best place to go
there.
Cause it's about an hour longstory, but

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (13:39):
Mm hmm.
Yeah!

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (13:40):
Know, it was, it was, You know, I
mean, like I said, it was, youknow, the state, the state said,
Hey, you know, the state licensesaid, Hey, look, we've got a
complaint from you.
you can certainly contest thisat the state board level, the
medical board level.
Uh, we're booked out for about ayear and a half.
So you're gonna have to wait ayear and a half.
It's going to cost you about aquarter of a million dollars to
do that, which is a lot ofmoney.

(14:01):
I didn't have that

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (14:02):
Mm Meh.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-2 (14:03):
around.
So they said,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (14:05):
Mm hm.
Mm hm.
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (14:06):
just go, we'll, we'll independently
evaluate this at this facilitythat does that, you know,
they're, they're nationally,they, they, they, they, they
see, that's what they do.
They, they're set up for thesituation and I strongly felt
that I was doing the correctthing.
So I was, I was independentlyinterviewed.
Uh, you know, reviewed and theywent through, you know, it
funny.
I was neuropsychological testingon me to make sure my brain was

(14:30):
working right.
And look through all my recordsand

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (14:32):
no way!

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (14:33):
it was a long, it was, it was a
three day intense process.
And at the end of it, they cameout and said, look, man, there's
no, no, you go, go back to workbasically.
But you know, then I had toreapply for my license, which
took another almost a year bythe time they got around to
doing it.
So, so I mean, you know, at thattime, you know, it'd been like
three or four years that hadelapsed between the initial.
suspension and me getting mylicense back, which takes a long

(14:54):
time not to operate on people.
And at that point I was like,you know, I can't just walk and
it's like, you know, being aprofessional quarterback, not
playing for four years andexpect to start in the

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (15:03):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (15:04):
You can't do that.
You got to go back and, know,kind of re rev everything up and
train

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (15:08):
Yeah Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (15:09):
and I, you know, at that point I'd
already, I'd already formed theother company and I was like,
you know, I'm done with thisstuff.
So anyway, that's, that's waterunder the bridge at this point.
I'm, you know, I'm I'm happyabout what happened, but at

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (15:21):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (15:22):
time, ultimately it's been a blessing
for me because I

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (15:27):
Yeah,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (15:28):
able to, you know, I mean the impact
that I, that I feel that I'vehad and, and, and I mean,
honestly, more so that thenumber of people that have
actually been helped is.
Because of that is, is actuallyimmense.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (15:40):
yeah, yeah, you definitely paved the
way from, for otherpractitioners to follow suit
that there's another way if, uh,also do it more of, more so
learning from your own, fromothers experience, like your
experience going another routemaybe not going directly at, uh,
you know, uh, Um, you know,advising people with lifestyle,

(16:04):
you know, they're willing toprotect, they're concerned about
keeping the way they are or whatthey're, what are they concerned
about?
What, what's, uh, what were yourassumptions there?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (16:15):
Uh, well, I mean, medicine is, is
healthcare is, is a business.
I mean, it is, I mean, even,even nonprofit hospitals, the
CEOs are still making 3 milliona year.
So, I mean, it is very much abusiness and that business
depends upon sick patientshaving procedures and, and so on
and so in utilizing theresources.

(16:35):
And if you

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (16:36):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (16:37):
that, they're going to lose money.
And people are going to losetheir jobs.
Uh, I mean, that's just thereality, you know, and so that,
that's, I think that's it morethan anything.
I mean, you know, and obviously

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (16:47):
Mm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (16:48):
a human greed always comes into
these things, but I mean, Ithink it's unfortunate that we
have an entire industry that isbased upon the suffering and
misery of others and, and, andin a way keeping them.
As repeat customers, you know,if you cure people and they go
away, Hey, you're soon then youbecome, you become superfluous

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (17:08):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (17:09):
and it's, you know, like I said, the
whole

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (17:10):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (17:12):
to just continue the, you know,
it's, it's, it's diseasemanagement now.
That's what we call it.
It was no longer curing disease.
It's disease management.
How am I going to manage yourdisease for the rest of your
life?
Uh, you know, you know, semiannual appointments.
medications, procedures, tests,you know, it's just continue
taking tests, continue takingdrugs, take, you know, continue
taking new drugs, you know,continue, I mean, it's, that's

(17:35):
what we're set up for.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (17:37):
Mm.
I also want to bring up, there'sa sworn oath, right?
Where you can't turn your backon like, An evidence such as,
you know, let's say theketogenic diet, you have like a
lot of success with your clientsto those who Really followed
through the diet lost weight.
It didn't have didn't have to dosurgeries, right Which is you

(18:01):
know another topic in itself,but it's funny There's a sworn
oath, but a lot of people, youknow, you know, turn a blind eye
You know, obviously it's, uh,they don't want to risk their
career over, over that, uh,their work for a system, like
you said, which is unfortunate,uh, uh, for some, but, uh, yeah,

(18:23):
again, like you said, it's abusiness with your recognition,
you, you know, you.
You said you started your ownbusiness, started your own
thing.
Of course, you're one of themost recognizable in the
carnivore world.
And certainly when you appearedon the Joe Rogan podcast,
certainly brought all kinds ofpeople to this space.
And I would argue you are theface of the carnivore lifestyle.

(18:46):
Carnivore people come to you forwisdom, but they'll also come
with, you know, criticism,especially you thought we talked
about earlier, the vegancommunity.
I mean, I don't think anyonecould have handled that.
Better than you, like, I mean,it's quite enjoyable to watch.
Like I said what I want to ask,what do you take away from that

(19:08):
back to back, back and forthwith them?
And what do you hope to achieve?
You know, just having thatcommunication, uh, with, with,
with that community.
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (19:20):
of illusions that I'm going to, uh,
convert a bunch of vegans tocarnivore.
Now it happens, certainly, andI, and it's kind of funny, some
people that are my most vocalcritics, to me two or three
years later and say, man, youwere right.
I'm sorry.
You know, and that's fine.
I mean, I, I don't really, Imean, they're, they're, they're
really, I mean, the reality isthey're such a small part of the

(19:40):
community.
I mean, they're, they're,they're, you know, 1%, 2 percent
of the population at most inmost places.
So they're, they're really kindof, you know, yeah.
Kind of insignificant in number.
However, they're very vocal andthey've, they've, they
definitely have had an impactand they are able to convert
people, albeit mostly for ashort time.
Most people end up leaving asI'm sure you're aware, I'm sure
they're aware as well.
So I think that.

(20:01):
You know, I don't care whatsomebody, I really don't care if
somebody's a vegan or carnivoreor Mediterranean diet or
whatever they want to choose toeat.
That's up to them.
It's not my desire to, toconvert a certain percentage of
the population.
I would like people to behealthy.
I mean, I think we do better asa society if we had more healthy
people and whatever gets youthere.
I'm, I'm, you know, I mean, uh,some people have been very

(20:22):
critical of guys like Ted Naimanand Andres.
I'm filled in the low carbcommunity for doing their I
said, Andres, if it works, goodfor you, man.
More power to you.
I hope, I hope you help a lot ofpeople.
Anything we can do to, to, tonot have so many sick people
because a bunch of sick peopleis a sick society and it's not
good for, it's not, it's justnot good.
You know, I mean, my criticismwith regard to the vegan

(20:44):
community is, you know, moredirected at what I think is
information that is.
You know, perhaps misleading inmany ways, perhaps, you know,
they, they, they often will tellpart of the story.
It's, it's, you know, they,they, they sort of
mischaracterize a lot of, a lotof things and, you know, and

(21:06):
they're, and, you know, they'vegot a lot of money behind them.
I mean, they're very wellfunded.
I mean, they've got, you know,Adventist Health Group, which is
a multi billion dollarorganization.
helping them to generatestudies, you know, organization
like PETA and physicianscommittee for responsible

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (21:19):
Yeah.
Mm

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-2 (21:20):
college of life.
So I'm all these multimilliondollar organizations that
constantly putting out date, youknow, doing studies and, you
know, obviously bias studies inmy view doing propaganda And,
and we don't really have thatmuch on our side.
Even the meat industry itselfhas been very reluctant to, sort
of, you know, do what I think isnecessary to help promote this,

(21:42):
this sort of carnivore orcarnivorous or animal based way
of living, which I think is, is,is a viable option for a lot of
people.
And it could be very beneficial.
And I think you could end, endUltimately, uh, uh, you know,
significantly impactingmillions, probably billions of
lives at this point.
So, I mean, it's, it's somethingthat you know, like I said, you

(22:02):
know, it's like there's an oldsaying, no man is useless.
You can always serve as a badexample.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (22:08):
hmm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (22:08):
I use some of the vegan nonsense
to say this is a bad example

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (22:11):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (22:12):
point that out.
And again, it's, you know,social media is.
In many ways aboutentertainment.
I mean, you know, no one

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (22:19):
Right.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24 (22:20):
stuff.
So you, and I, and I, you know,I get it.
Some people just do outrageousstuff and flashy graphics and
make controversial, outrageousstatements just so they can get
eyes on some of that.
I disagree with some of it.
I, you know, but I mean, againyou know, I mean, it's, it's.
It's fun sometimes because theysay such ridiculous stuff, and

(22:41):
it's sort of,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (22:43):
Right.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (22:44):
to, it's easy to sort of, you know,
characterize them a certain way,and I mean, just like people
will characterize carnivores aslike, you know, the liver king,
you know, here's a guy that's acarnivore.
You know, acting

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (22:57):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24 (22:58):
eating raw testicles, which is totally
unnecessary.
I mean, it's total garbage in myview.
I mean, I think some of thestupidest stuff from the
carnivore side, too.
I mean, quite honestly.
And, uh, you know, it's, youknow, like I said, I, I, I.
Anyone who listens to me over along period of time knows that
I'm fairly not as extreme aspeople

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (23:18):
Yeah.
Mm

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (23:19):
I'm, I'm, I'm much more non dogmatic
about things.
You know, I get it again at theend of the day, as a physician,
I just want people to behealthier and I don't care.
a vegan diet gets you there,good for you.
I would say,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (23:29):
hmm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (23:30):
But you know, to sit there and say,
I'm a murderer or rapist orworse than Hitler because I eat
too much.
Steak is, is just, know, that tome is, is, is ridiculous.
But anyway,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (23:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
For the most part, I see you asa fair guy.
Like, on both sides.
Maybe we should do something funwith the vegans, right?
Uh, what better to do a show offitness and health than sports?
Like maybe Kyber versus vegans?
Uh, no, a game of basketball?
What do you think?
Dr.
Baker.
Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (24:02):
you know, I mean, well, I mean, I
mean, that's, you know, I did,uh, there's a, there's some
comedians, uh, got named Chadand JT, JT, par and Chad, uh,
Kroger.
And they did a littledocumentary on Netflix about, I
don't know, two years ago, maybea year ago, I can't remember, I
went out and shot a video forthat.
And it was carnivores andvegans.

(24:23):
Uh, we had three carnivores

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (24:24):
Mm,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (24:25):
and we all did some sort of weird
pool, pool challenge.
It was fun, they were nice, wewere nice, it was fine, I mean.
I don't know.
I mean, you know, you again, Imean, with sports, I mean, it
depends how good you are at thesport and you take somebody
that's every day of their lifedoes one thing.
They're going to be really goodat it.
It doesn't matter what theirdiet is.
You know, it's just like, youknow, like there was an MMA
fight.
Well, if you got somebody whotrains his whole life to be a

(24:46):
fighter, I don't care what dietthey're on versus somebody who's
untrained.
The fighters is.
You know,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (24:51):
right.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (24:52):
who spends time, I've been very
fortunate that I've had successat a very high level in a number
of sports.
And I can tell you, it takes

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (24:58):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24 (24:59):
amount of effort and time and work and
expertise to get at a worldclass level.
You know, I mean, so, I mean,you know, I mean, outside of
entertainment and whatever, Imean, you know, I mean, because
people like to be on their team,I don't know what good it would
do.
I mean, you know, I could seewhere it'd be fun, you know,
like I really like, you know,the carnivores are going to win

(25:19):
because of this and that, or thevegans are going to win because
of this or that.
Who knows?

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (25:25):
Yeah.
Who know?
It's all for entertainment.
I mean, get, uh, vegans off thestreets, carnivores off the
streets, just battled out andthere's already a video out all
for it.
I didn't know that.
I wanna ask you now about theCarver diet, the, the number one
dietary enemy.
For the past, what, half acentury has been cholesterol,

(25:50):
you know, shape, how we see, youknow, lifestyle led to, you
know, the rise of cholesterol,lowering drugs like statins.
You probably answered thequestion about this, but about
cholesterol, right?
Hundreds of times, probably.
I mean, it's one of the biggestreasons why the idea of eating

(26:13):
an all meat diet can be, youknow, An issue for a lot of
people and many people reportincreased cholesterol levels
starting in a carnivore diet Howshould people interpret that

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (26:26):
Well, you shouldn't ignore

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (26:27):
you think?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (26:28):
say, Hey, I'm on a carnivore diet and
high cholesterol is nothing toworry about.
I think that is, I think peoplethat are given that space within
the carnivore community areperhaps doing some people a
disservice.
I think it should be somethingyou get more information about.
I mean, honestly, I mean, it, itcertainly could be that if you
are quote unquote metabolicallyhealthy, you know, no, no
hypertension, you have normal,you Trigly, low triglycerides,

(26:51):
high HDL, you know, you have lowinflammation, you're lean, you
don't smoke, you don't drink,you're not diabetic, you have
normal glycemic control.
It could be that having allthose things means that the, the
elevated LDL cholesterol, theelevated ApoB is pretty high.
Fine.
I mean, it could mean that.
I mean, I can't say for sure itdoes.
I know there's people that outthere that proclaim it has

(27:12):
nothing to do with it.
You're fine.
As long as you're, as long asyou're truckless ride ratio,
truckless ride HCL ratio isfine.
You're fine.
You don't have to worry aboutanything else.
You know, I mean, I, I see wherethere's a lot of merit to that
particular argument.
However, I don't think it issomething that you could just
say, To every single person andeveryone's going to be fine.
I just don't think that's thecase.

(27:32):
I mean, let's just say thatperhaps you are, you know,
you're on a healthy carnivorediet and you've seen all these
improvements in your metabolichealth.
You've lost weight, you'vegotten leaner, you feel great.
And, but yet your LDLcholesterol is through the roof,
right?
Could be that you're fine, youknow, and I would suggest you
get some sort of serial imagingto, you know, maybe it's CAC,
CAC score, maybe it's cardiac,you know, CT angiography or

(27:56):
whatever.
There's different ways tomeasure this.
it over time.
See how you're doing, you know,and, and take the appropriate
actions and what that is, whatthat might be.
It's going to vary from personto person depending on what
they're, you know, what they,what they are willing to do.
I think that, you know, let'sjust say.
You do eat a diet, but what ifyou live in Los Angeles and it's
smoggy out all day and you'resucking in, you know, smoke all

(28:18):
day long, you know, indoor airpollution that's causing some
vascular inflammation that youdon't, that you, you can't
control through, through diet.
What about those people?
What are their cholesterol uphigh?
Well, I don't know.
Maybe, maybe it is a problem.
Maybe, maybe it's an, maybe it'snot enough to give you.
It's not a pure metabolicdisease, but it is cause enough
to cause, some level ofvascular, some low level of

(28:39):
vascular inflammation.
So I mean, I think it'ssomething that we can't just
flat out ignore, you know, like,like some people would tell you.
And I think there's some peoplethat, that are, that are you
know, I'm, I'm willing to take arisk with myself more so.
Then somebody I don't know, youknow, I'm not, you know, like I
said, I'm not here to tellpeople, Hey, just, know, go

(29:00):
carnivore.
Who cares if your cholesterolgoes high?
I'm not going to say that.
we may get information down theroad.
I mean, as you're probablyaware, you know, Matt boot
officer, you know, UCLA study,Dave Feldman helped to organize
this, got some data out there.
That's interesting towards this.
But you know, we're, we're,we're, we're, I think the
science does not yet show thatyou can ignore it.

(29:24):
In, in my view, and

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (29:25):
Mhm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (29:26):
it myself, I mean, my cholesterol
isn't super high.
I mean, it's higher than, like,would be standardly accepted,
you know, by most cardiologists.
However, it's not ridiculouslyhigh, like I see some people.
So I mean, I think

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (29:39):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (29:39):
it's one of those things where, you
know, you, you just have to getmore information.
it, it could be that it's fine.
And I, I mean, you know, like Isaid, on, in, you know, on the,
on the lean mass hyper responderstudy, I mean, there are people
with LDL cholesterol 600 thatdon't have heart disease.
So, I mean.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's,it's certainly possible, but,
uh, to, to, to sort of evenphysicians out there saying you

(30:01):
don't need to worry about it,me, I, I'm not willing to say
that at this point.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (30:07):
Yeah.
Are you willing to say that itisn't a great indicator of
health?
Because some people, somephysicians now only look at
cholesterol as the onlyindication of, uh, heart health.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (30:21):
No, I don't think that's true.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (30:23):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (30:23):
I think cardiovascular disease is
multifactorial.
I think most people understandthat.
Uh, some people say it's alarge, some people say it is the
Number one thing you can affectbecause it's because you can
give people a drug and lower it,right?

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (30:36):
Right.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (30:37):
it you know, I look at it like this
I mean, it's it's like, youknow, yeah, I mean I could get
rid of sexually transmitted Icould get rid of sexually
transmitted diseases if I cut mypenis off.
I mean, yeah, that's gonna work,but Is there a downside to that?
I would argue.
Yeah, that's for sure.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (30:52):
Mhm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (30:52):
I mean, it's, you know, you know,
it's, it's one of those thingsthat you know, there's guys out
there.
They'll say, Hey, we get, know,we used to have, you know, used
to consider up to 300 milligramsper deciliter.
Total cholesterol is fine.
That was normal.
That was 2 40.
Then it was 200.
Now it's 1 90.
And people pushing lower andlower and lower and lower
because it didn't work.
We lowered it from 300 to 2 40.
No difference.
2 42 100.

(31:12):
No difference to 200 to 1 90.
No difference.
And, you know, really heartdisease incidents, but we just
gotta keep going lower and lowerand lower.
That's, you know, it's likethey're doubling down on
something that's never worked inthe first place.
And

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (31:24):
Mhm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (31:25):
point where, you know, like I said you
know, you can eliminate, uh,kidney disease by cutting
people's kidneys out, right?
And put them on dialysis.
They won't have kidney diseaseanymore.
But I mean, you know, I mean,I'm obviously, I'm making these
preposterous It's essentiallywhat they're trying to do.
We can lower your cholesteroldown to effectively zero.
Yes, you won't have heartdisease, but what else is going
to happen?
We don't know.

(31:45):
I would argue we clearly don'tknow.
I mean, they'll use called Abeta lipoproteinemia, which is a
genetic disorder where peoplehave very, very low cholesterol,
and, you know, saying, well,these people live normal lives.
I'm saying, well, it's not thesame thing.
Genetic disease is not the sameas a lifestyle or drug induced
state.
They're just not the same.
And so, anyway, my thoughts onthat in general.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110624 (32:09):
So, but what is, what is So you talk
about the CAC scan, calcium, uh,score test, which, you know, is
probably hard to get for, uh,for anybody because I, I had a
friend that, uh, asked hisphysician about a CAC scan and
almost, the doctor almost, uh,was, uh, Offended just because

(32:35):
what, what were you saying?
Like, I haven't talked to youabout that.
I was just doing my own researchand it's almost like the doctor
was taking offense with, uh,requesting a CAC scan.
Why, why do those things happenwith, uh, physicians?
And what are your assumptions?
Do you think that, uh, may causethat, uh, reaction from a

(32:57):
doctor?
Right.
Right.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (33:01):
even know anything about this.
I mean, there's many people inthat situation.
Some people, uh, in many cases,if a physician says, you know,
to get a CHC scan and there'snot like an insurance approved
reason for that, that meansthey've got to sit on a phone
for an hour.
with insurance companies to getapproved, and they just don't
have time for that.
So like, look, it's, I would,if, if I'd, you know, as a

(33:24):
physician when you gotta see,you know, 40 patients a day and,
and then somebody says, well,you now you gotta spend an hour
on, on, on the line, on holdwith a stupid insurance company,
they're not gonna do it.
It's just, it's just too muchwork for'em, quite honestly.
I mean the good news is in mostplaces.
You don't need a physician toget a CAC scan, you can just go
online and order it yourself.
I mean, there's little pop upclinics that do it.
I mean, there's little evenmobile CAC scan places that can

(33:47):
do this, so.
You know, I mean, you gotta payfor it out of pocket.
It might be 100, 150, it'susually pretty cheap.
200 at the highest I've, youknow, that I'd seen recently.
So, I mean, you can do thatthing, but yeah, I mean, most
physicians, I mean, even likeordering an insulin level.
I mean, I, I, you know, it'skind of funny when I was
practicing with peak, I wasordering fasting insulin on

(34:07):
levels on people with carpaltunnel syndrome, which literally
has no indication for it.
But I was just curious.
I said, I bet this purpose,purpose, person is hyper
insulinemic I was able to get

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110 (34:18):
Mm-Hmm.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (34:20):
After a lot of jumping through a lot
of hoop and sure enough, thesepeople were in that head carpal
tunnel syndrome hadhyperinsulinemia, which I, which
I expected to see based on whatI believe was going on
physiologically.
So, but I mean, it's, mean alot, like I said, it's
ignorance.
It's the system.
It puts up roadblocks to preventit from happening.
So yeah, I mean, there's, Imean, it's not always a

(34:40):
physician being the bad guy.
It's, it's sometimes, like I

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (34:44):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (34:44):
the whole system just sucks.
I mean, the system literally isjust not designed for what, for

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (34:50):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2 (34:51):
this sort of paradigm.
It's just not designed for it.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (34:55):
Yeah.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat we don't know that goes on
within the walls of healthcaresystem.
You know, especially like, youknow, somebody like me who, you
know, didn't work for thesystem, uh, itself.
As someone who has his own fairshares of run-ins with them,
what is it that causes too muchfriction when it comes to.
You know, you, you alreadymentioned a few things you know,

(35:17):
when it comes to offeringlifestyle change and diet change
for patients, because that'swhat I ultimately want to see is
getting more options for people.
And you certainly did that, but,uh, it didn't went very well,
but, uh, what do you think thatcauses too much friction for
them, aside from the businessside of things or is that the
only one?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (35:36):
you know, one, most people, most
physicians are trained in it.
They don't know.
I mean, it's, it's, it's not,there's not what you spent, you
know, 10, 12, 15 years trainingabout.
I mean, you know, when I, as anorthopedic

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (35:45):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (35:50):
I mean, that's 13 years of
training and none of it wasdesigned on how to provide
lifestyle and nutritionalcounseling for people.
So what, I don't know what I'mdoing.
I mean, you know, I'm an expertin something that this isn't it.
I had to learn that on my ownand become an expert outside of
the system.
You know, I took a long time todo that.
There's that.
And then there's no support, youknow what I mean?

(36:11):
Like I said, let's say I want,okay, let's say, Hey, we're
going to, we're going to treatyour diabetes with lifestyle.
We're going to send you tohealth coaches and we're going
to contact you every day.
And we're going to get followyour feet, your lab feedback and
we're going to havenutritionists that can really be
on the ball that doesn't exist.
There's no one to send them to.
you're left to, Hey, go readthis book.

(36:32):
You know, good luck.
I mean, there's, there's,there's this, and there's no, no
financials and I don't get, andI don't even get paid for that
as a physician.
I'm like, so I mean, it's like,if, if, if you were, you know,
you, a car mechanic and peoplepaid you to, to repair their car
and you said, Hey, I want you tomow my grass for free.
You know, it's like, well, youknow, that doesn't make sense,

(36:54):
right?
So, that, that's, that's, that'sreally the issue.
I mean, there's no facility,there's no, there's no way to
set up.
So again, once again, I'll pointout Rivera is what we've done.
I had to create that cause itdidn't exist.
Uh, and, and so that's what'sgoing to take.
It's going to have, it's goingto have to be, it's going to
have to take patients willing toadopt this, willing to go there
because most patients are like,you get sick, you go to the

(37:16):
doctor, know, you, you go to thedoctor for your animal visit.
He tells you what, what yourlabs say and tells you what
drugs should be on.
I mean, this is, this is whatpeople have been trained to do.
We've trained the populace,we've trained the physicians and
we've been trained by thepharmaceutical industry.
It's true.
The pharmaceutical industry hastrained.
I mean, we're, we're constantlyinundated with TV commercials.

(37:37):
You know, ask your doctor aboutblah, blah, blah.
You know, I mean, you watch TV.
I don't, I really watch actuallike live TV anymore, but every
time I do, I'm in a hotel, I'llput on a TV channel.
every second or third ad is.
It's this or that drug, youknow, your problem with your
psoriasis, your diabetes, yourdepression, your tardive

(37:57):
dyskinesia because you took thisother antidepressant, you know,
it's on and on and on.
And it's, it's, we're inundatedwith that stuff and, and that's,
what the society is, is, is cometo.
So we got to fix it.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (38:12):
Yeah.
And what, what does it take tofix it?
I mean, you talked about awillingness to make a change,
right?
What does it take to become awilling patient?
I mean.
I've interviewed a lot of peoplewho had success on the carnivore
diet and ketogenic diet and whatI felt, I feel like, uh,
everyone has is that they're fedup with the system.
So sort of, uh, they were failedby the system almost, right?

(38:35):
Like myself, I, uh, you know, Ihad a major depression, you
know, five to six years ago andI was, I was sent to, you know,
Doctor after doctor, specialistafter specialist, wanting me to,
you know, take medication.
But there's something in me thatdidn't want to take medication.
I want to take another route toyou know, alternative health.
And so I, you know, dabbled intothe ketogenic diet and then, you

(38:58):
know, All of a sudden, and thatwas, you know, just for weight
loss.
I wanted to do it for mom, butthen, you know, energy lifted
and almost accidentally symptomsof depression went away, went
carnivore rest is history.
But that's because I, You know,I felt like the system wasn't,
you know, doing it for me or,uh, I was fed up with with all

(39:20):
these medications that's, youknow, presented to me or, you
know, it's, which isunfortunate.
You gotta get to a point whereyou're fed up.
And what, what have you seenwith your patients that come to
Rivero that, uh, made them sosuccessful?
I mean, you talked about a lotof success stories on your
podcast.

(39:40):
Uh, what, what, what's a common,uh, ground with those people,
you think?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (39:44):
I mean, you know, part of it's
similar to what you mentioned.
A lot of them are fed up withthe system.
They're tired of havingphysicians that don't

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (39:49):
Yeah,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24- (39:49):
them.
And there's nothing worse than,you know, I mean, discovering on
your own, Hey, this diet hasreally changed my life.
I feel really good.
I don't need these medicationsanymore.
I've lost this weight.
I don't, I'm no longerdepressed.
I'm no longer in pain.
And to get to a doctor thatsays, you know, I don't think
you should be doing that, youknow, you know, great.
But.
you need more fiber, add yourvegetables back in, or you need

(40:10):
to cut back on red meat or, youknow, whatever.
I mean, that, that to me is, isone side of the frustration that
people have.
And it's just, it's sort ofobvious if a patient is doing
well, leave them alone, man.
In a lot of cases.
I mean, that's a, that's some,sometimes the case.
Think a lot of patients Youknow, they have to make that
decision themselves.
I mean, there's a lot of peopleout there that just, you know, I

(40:32):
mean, I've cut people's legs offthat won't give up drinking Coca
Colas and eating cookies.
I mean, I mean, that's just theway it is.
There's some people that, that,you know, you have to make a
decision that, Hey, am.
of being the sick person and I'mgonna do whatever it takes and
it you might have to grind 10years I mean, you know, you you
mean if you sat on the couch andstuffed your face full of
garbage for 40 years ain'tundoing in in six months I mean,

(40:56):
you're gonna probably you know,you need to grind for 10 years
and then it never stops I meanyou got to understand that you
know, the only reason I'mhealthy today at nearly 60 is
because I Every day do what ittakes.
It's, it's, you don't, you justdon't sit there and like, oh,
you achieve something.
And then you just kind of coast.
It doesn't happen.
You're going to continue.
You've got to

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (41:15):
yeah,

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (41:15):
got to accept that day, you know, or
almost every day, you're goingto have to put the work in.
And there's no shortcuts.
There's no, there's no I mean,that's another, that's the
latest thing that, you know,most people are going to,
they're going to quickly becomedisillusioned with three or four
years into it when they foundout that, you know, I, you know,
if I still don't put in thework, I'm going to still be sick

(41:39):
and I mean, I might be skinnyfat now and sick, or I might
have some autoimmune disease orsomething else, or some God
awful, you Intractable long termside effect, but you know, it's,
it's, I think it's people that,I mean, it's some people that
are, you know, like I said, thisis a grassroots movement.
I mean, there's no, I mean,whoever the next president is
going to be is not going tosuddenly sit up there and say,

(42:00):
Hey you need to be on a, youknow, a diet of non ultra
processed foods and God forbidyou eat meat and stuff like
that.
isn't happening.
I mean, I mean, you know, like,like you, you know, like there's
no corporation that's going todo that because it's not in
their benefit.
So it has to be grassroots andwe need, uh, The people that

(42:21):
want to make a difference tosupport what we're doing as a
community, as a, as a, as acompany, other companies like
ours, you need to support us,you know, if this is what you
truly want to see a change, notgoing to happen without the
support of the people and, andas a, you know, individually,
we're all relatively weak, youknow, you think, what can I do
against Bill Gates, what can Ido against, you know, uh, Google

(42:43):
or

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_1106 (42:44):
right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (42:51):
You know, and, and that's what has
to happen.
so until enough people get fedup with it until enough people
support people doing the rightthing and what they feel is the
right thing, still going to be,you know, I could tell people,
you know, we got a big electioncoming up here in 2024 all
around the world.
There's like 45 major.
countries having elections.
It's huge, significant, but youget to vote every single day of

(43:13):
your life and what you put inyour mouth and what you buy and
who you support, who you chooseto support.
And so every time you go to thestore and you buy garbage, guess
what?
You give those people morepower.
All right, empower them more totake more control over your
life.
And know, once you realize thatyou're like, I don't, I don't
want to give these guys any moremoney.
They've already, they've beenscrewing us over for too many

(43:34):
years.
Why?
Why?
Why continue to do the, Oh, ittastes good.
Oh, my kids want to treat.
That's, a problem that reallyis.
And so, until people wake up anddo that in mass, it's, it's,
it's not going to go away.
And, you know, like I said,hopefully, hopefully people
will.
I'm, I'm pushing as hard as Ican, you know, but like I said,
I need help.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (43:54):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I love how you're sharing a lotof the success stories with, uh,
your patients, uh, on your ownpodcasts and, you know, seeing
that, you know, for everyone tosee, especially with your, uh,
with your pool, with yourplatform, it's really powerful
for, for a lot of people,especially it's empowering for
me.

(44:14):
And, uh, hope for a lot ofpeople.
And, uh, just, you know,sharing, sharing your
information, sharing your ownsuccess stories.
I mean, if someone is listeningif you are, you know, success on
the carnivore diet, that helpstoo.
Right.
You know, sharing yourcondition.
I continue to share my my, myjourney from having a major
depression to you know,relieving symptoms of depression

(44:35):
to this day, because I, youknow, I want that next person to
know that, Hey, you know,there's hope.
And I, if I could do it, you,you could, you could too.
But again, the flip side to itis that, uh, you have to really
give, give up a lot of thingsthat you, that got you there in
the first place, you know, likeseed oils, grain sugar,
processed foods, that's, uh,that's causing harm.

(44:57):
And you have to realize that youhave really have to accept that.
Have to accept that you know,those foods are actually the
ones that's causing harm in yourbody.
You know, if, if you continue todo that and you continue to
consume these foods whilstknowing that these are the foods
that's causing inflammation,causing you problems, then you
know, there's nothing we coulddo, really.

(45:18):
Because you, you the person haveto realize that.
And accept that these foods are,you know, you're giving these
foods, food companies controlover you, right?
Which is, uh, you know, you'retaking away your power.
Well, one last question for you,Dr.
Sean Baker.
Really appreciate you coming onhere, uh, and, uh, you know,

(45:38):
giving insights about yourstory.
Your knowledge, wisdom about thecarnivore diet.
If anyone is, uh, Wanting tostart a carnivore diet really
willing to give this thing atry.
What practical advice would yougive to someone who wants to
start?

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (45:55):
Uh, you know, I, I mean, have fun
with it.
I mean, God, it doesn't have tobe, you know, just sit down and
eat ground beef every day.
I mean, think in the beginning,particularly in the beginning,
just, you might want to easeinto it.
You might want to have a quite abit of variety, you know, when
you start just to, just to sortof, uh, get there.
I think don't under eat.
I think, well, I mean, here,here's what I would, I think is

(46:17):
one of the more importantconcepts that I like to talk
about is, you know, I don't knowwhy someone's doing a diet.
Many people want to do it causethey want to lose weight or they
have some sort of health issueand that health issue, if it's
related to food was not from,you know, it was probably from
eating.
Who knows what some sort ofgarbage, probably most likely
for most people you got tochange the relationship with
food.
Why you eat?
I mean, why do we why?

(46:38):
Why do we have to eat?
Well, we have to eat because wehave certain requirements.
We need essential proteins,essential fats.
We need energy.
need vitamins and minerals,water.
That's essentially why we eat.
You know, there's some.
There's some conditionallybeneficial, you know, nutrients
that are out there.
But I mean, why we have to eatare those things.
And why do why have to get thosethings?

(46:58):
But why do many people eat?
Well, they're eat becausethey're bored.
They're stressed.
They're guy on the TV told himto because it's five o'clock in
the afternoon and we're supposedto, you know, lunchtime or
dinnertime rather.
So you have to change therelationship with food.
And, and.
A lot of people, a lot morepeople than, than are willing
to, were willing to admit havetrue sort of addictive problems

(47:18):
with food and the food isdesigned to be that way.
I mean, we've got an entire foodsystem that has made addictive
products and they know it andit's been, it's done by
intention.
Um, and in order to, to freeyourself from that, and it
really is, I mean, people talkabout how it's a restrictive
carnivore is, I see it as a veryliberating diet.
It frees you from this sort ofconstant, intrusive.

(47:42):
unending desire to eat thisstuff.
It's always there.
It's ubiquitous.
It's cheap.
It's, it's pushed upon you.
It's marketed to you.
It's propagandized to you.
Um, so you've got to eat enough.
I mean, you just got to eat likepeople out.
How much should I eat?
We'll eat enough.
So you don't want a damncupcake.
I mean, I mean, it's simple asthat.
I mean, nutrition should not bea hard, doesn't have to be hard.

(48:03):
And yet we make it hard.
You know, we've got all theseyou know, calorie counters and
nutrient analyzer devices and,and, you know.
step trackers and just to, justto not be sick.
I mean, it's like what otheranimal on the planet has to do
that?
None.
I mean, there's no, no animalout there checking their Fitbit
or looking at an app, figuringwhat the hell they're supposed

(48:24):
to eat.
So, I mean, it, it,

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11062 (48:26):
Yeah.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-202 (48:26):
to be that way.
So it can be simple.
I mean, you know, like I said,there's all kinds of criticisms
about this diet, but I mean,what I'll tell you is it's, it
doesn't, doesn't provide you abunch of ultra processed garbage
provides you very high qualitybioavailable nutrition.
It provides you those essentialamino acids and essential fats
and oh, by the way, there'sphytonutrients in meat, which
most people don't know there'sbioavailable, lots of

(48:47):
bioavailable phytonutrients inmeat.
Most people don't even thinkabout that, but it's clearly in
there and there's clear studiesthat demonstrate that.
So, you know, get some support,surround yourself with a
supportive environment, make iteasy.
You know, don't make it hard foryourself, make it easy for you.
You might have to, I mean, youmight have to, you know, like
find a different friend circle.

(49:07):
I mean, you know, I mean,honestly, sometimes it takes, it
takes that, you know what Imean?
Again, they don't have to, theydo not have to spend any time in
your body if you're sick andsuffering.
You know, they're not going tobe there when you're, when
you're in bed and you can'tsleep because you're damn,
you're in too much pain or you,you, you, you, you know, you,
you're poor.
Too depressed or whatever it is.
So you've gotta, you've gotta bea little selfish about it.

(49:28):
And you've gotta, you've gotta,like I said, position yourself
in a way that um, maximizes yourchances for success.
Join a community.
I mean, we've got one atCarnivore Diet.
I mean, there's, there's allkinds of other ones out there.
As you guys are probably well,well aware of.
A lot of people have their owncommunities right now.
That's important.
You know, get a, get asupportive physician.
You know, I mean, I've got dataon, you know, 12, 000 people on

(49:49):
the diet, you know, the onesthat had supportive physicians
and, and, and families andfriends were like 30 percent
more likely to be successful.
It's a huge difference.
So get us, get supportivephysician.
If you don't have a physiciancoming to come to Rivero, we
will get you on, you know, soyou know, we're licensed in all
50 states.
So, I mean, you get on ourwaiting list and we'll, we'll
get you there.
We've got a lot of people, 000plus people on the waiting list

(50:10):
right now.
We're, we're bringing them in asfast as we can, but you know,
it's one of those things thatPut put as many things in your
favor as possible.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11 (50:19):
Awesome.
Dr.
Baker.
That was a, such a insightful.
Tip for our listeners heretoday.
How can they, how can they, uh,enlist on, on the waiting list
if they want, if they choose to

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-2024 (50:30):
R E V E R O So R E V E R O dot com
Rivero dot com.
I'm just going there and itsays, you know, I think it's a
sign up on our waiting listWe'll get you in there.
We're working on me.
We started in Texas in FloridaWe're you know, we're going next
to New Mexico.
Sorry We're going to New York,California, Washington We're in
a bigger popular states and thenwe'll be going to the smaller
states, you know As we Scale upbecause we have to, you know, we

(50:54):
have to kind of hire, hirephysician.
We've got physicians that wantto work for us.
We can't hire them until we haveenough patients.
So it's kind of one of these, togrow at the same rate.
So as we get more patients andwe can hire more physicians and
more physicians, we can take inmore patients.
So, so that's going to be, youknow, it's going to be over the
next, you know, several months,you know, the rest of this year
probably where we start to, toramp up all those patients.
But if you want to, you know, ifyou want to get into that where

(51:15):
you have a supportive physicianthen, then that's where you can
go.
So rivera.
com is, is a great place tocheck out.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_110 (51:21):
awesome Rivera.
com we'll link down it down tointo the description box below.
So you guys can check that out.
Dr.
Sean Baker.
Thank you so much for your time.
Coming on, sharing your storywith us today.

squadcaster-1ej1_1_06-24-20 (51:31):
the opportunity.
Thanks so much.

lorenz_1_06-24-2024_11 (51:33):
Awesome.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 179: Dr. Shawn Baker Talks Carnivore Diet and Metabolic Health