April 2, 2024 • 57 mins
In this episode of the Ketones and Coffee Podcast, host Lawrence delves into the impactful story of Jillian Zolas, a health policy promotion and education consultant who reclaimed her health and well-being through the ketogenic diet. Jillian shares her personal journey, from struggling with left temporal lobe epilepsy and the detrimental side effects of medications to discovering the life-changing benefits of a therapeutic ketogenic diet.
With eight years of being seizure-free, Jillian's story highlights the profound therapeutic potential of keto, not just for epilepsy but for overall health improvement. She discusses the importance of nutritional quality, the pitfalls of 'keto' branded products, and offers practical advice for individuals considering a ketogenic lifestyle for therapeutic purposes. Jillian's narrative is a testament to the power of dietary intervention and the importance of community, support, and education in navigating health challenges.
00:00 Welcome to the Ketones and Coffee Podcast!
00:27 Introducing Jillian Zolas: A Ketogenic Success Story
02:21 Jillian's Journey: From Seizures to Keto Triumph
09:29 The Therapeutic Power of Keto: A Deep Dive
14:53 Navigating Keto: Challenges, Support, and Lifestyle Changes
20:00 The Importance of Support and Precision in Keto Success
23:36 Keto Misconceptions and the Path to True Ketosis
27:59 The Importance of Real Food in Your Diet
29:10 Navigating Keto: Personal Experiences and Adjustments
30:27 Addressing Health Conditions Beyond Diet
31:14 The Journey of Weight Loss and Managing Lipedema
31:36 Adapting Keto for Menopause and Personal Health Goals
34:06 The Role of Medical Supervision in Medication and Diet Changes
36:18 Engaging with Your Doctor on a Keto Diet Plan
39:46 The Power of Coaching and Mental Shifts in Keto Success
41:39 Understanding and Utilizing Ketones for Health
46:54 The Sweetness Dilemma: Adjusting to Healthier Choices
53:08 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find More Information
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys, this is Lawrence andwelcome back to the ketones and
(00:02):
coffee podcast.
And thank you so much for tuningin.
I know everyone here that'slistening are here because you
want to create a sustainable,healthy lifestyle to the
ketogenic diet.
And every single week I try tobring in guests.
That not only has knowledge, butthese individuals has also been
through the same trials that weall have been through.
When it comes down to our searchfor a better health, we get
(00:24):
together in hopes to assist youon your own journey.
Stick around guys, because ourguest today is a health policy
promotion and educationconsultant with her mission to
improve the health and wellbeing of communities at risk.
And she believes that optimalnutrition should be the standard
of care.
Her writing, interviews,coaching, and public speaking
(00:47):
engagement serve asopportunities to build community
and share successes whiledrawing attention to the
therapeutic possibilities of aketogenic diet to change lives,
and in some instances, savethem.
She is a coach practitionertrained in a low carbohydrate
and keto lifestyle.
I'm here with Jillian Zolas.
(01:08):
Jillian, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
What an awesome introduction.
That was fantastic.
Thank you.
It's, it's my honor.
Honor is all mine because, youknow, by just looking at the
title of this episode, you kindof know already to anyone that's
listening, the discussion we'reabout to have here, she is also.
(01:29):
One hell of a storyteller too.
So, and how are you Jillian?
What's, what's been keeping youbusy these days?
I have been very, very busy, butI'm well, thank you so much.
And in fact, I just celebratedmy eighth year seizure free
thanks to a ketogenic diet.
Literally, it was last week wasmy anniversary.
(01:49):
So that made me extremely happy.
I love that.
Jillian's keto success story is,I promise you, one you don't
want to miss.
So stick till the end.
So I'm going to shut up, shut uphere and, and give you the floor
here because you, you best toldyour story on multiple speaking
engagement that you had.
And when I heard about yourstory, I wanted to talk to you
(02:13):
and bring you to the podcast so,you know, our listeners can, uh,
Can, you know, listen and helpthem impact with your story.
And Jillian, please tell us yourstory.
Absolutely.
Well, my story has a couple ofparts.
I'll sort of back up to, to myearlier life where, you know,
just chugging along as a happygo lucky kid.
(02:36):
Around the age of 12, I startedto experience absent seizures
and actually I guess it wasprobably a little earlier than
that, but we didn't know what tocall them until a bit later.
And so, these would come andthey would go and frequently
they wouldn't be happeningduring the summer when I was off
from school and I was having alot of fun.
So, when my mom was trying tofigure out what was going on
(02:58):
with me, all of the physicianswere telling them, It's just in
her head.
It's a psychiatric issue.
It's not a physiological issuebecause it only happens during
school time and not when she'soff for the summer.
Progress forward a couple moreyears.
These are getting more and morefrequent.
They're starting to come intothe summer.
(03:18):
And finally, my mom corners myneighbor who is an amazing
urologist at a dinner party andsays, I really need you to see
my daughter.
And at this point I was 14.
And probably seizing.
Anywhere from 2 to 15 times aday, and still being told that
this was just in my head.
Wow.
So, it was in my head, but itwasn't something I had any
(03:39):
control over.
So, the neurologist did a bunchof tests, and definitely, I
finally got a diagnosis of lefttemporal lobe epilepsy.
And he put me on medication.
And the medication I was put onat the time was something called
Tegretol and it was veryeffective.
It stopped my seizures.
I had one ground mall seizure,but then after that I had no
(04:00):
more seizures.
But it came at a cost and thatcost was my memory.
So during high school, I didn'treally care about my memory so
much.
I cared about driving a car.
So that's, that was the thingthat was the most important and
not having seizures.
So the medication is causing youthis memory loss.
Yeah, but I was having quitesignificant memory loss.
So by the time I was about 18and I was looking at going to
(04:23):
university, I really needed tochange things up because I
couldn't retain information formore than about 48 hours.
So, I did a very stupid thingand something I would never
recommend, which is stopped mymedication.
So, the good news is I did nothave any further seizures.
And so, I basically forgot thatI had epilepsy.
(04:44):
I went to university, Igraduated, everything was good,
I got married, I had babies,everything was good.
And then, out of the blue, in2014, as I started to enter
those perimenopausal years wherethere's a lot of hormone
fluctuation.
I had a seizure and the veryfirst sort of awareness of
(05:06):
problems coming was an aura afew days before that seizure,
but I, you know, was busy andhad stuff to do and just decided
to deny it, pretend it wasn'tactually happening.
So it took a few days.
Gillian, I want to ask youbefore you continue with your
story, why do you think, did youever look up why?
(05:29):
It's stopped after you stop yourmedications and why it came back
at, you know, after 30 years.
Absolutely.
I'm going to tell you exactlywhy.
I'll get to that.
Don't worry.
So in, in terms of the seizurefrequency, once they came back,
They came back just like out ofthe blue.
So aura one day, aura two dayslater, first seizure the day
(05:53):
after that, three seizures thenext day, eight seizures the day
after that.
So they were ramping up and ofcourse by this point I had been
in hospital.
I had been fully worked up.
I had a neurology consult andthey put me on medication.
And this time they put me on amedication called Keppra and it
did not take long before I wasat the maximum dose of my
(06:17):
Keppra.
And this medication, it can bevery helpful for lots of people.
For me, the side effects werehorrific.
I had uncontrollable rage,uncontrollable depression, and
I've never suffered fromdepression before in my life.
So this was very new to me.
And it got to the point where Iwas having a lot of suicidal
(06:38):
thoughts, not just because ofthe Keppra, but because of how
negatively my life had suddenlybeen impacted.
You know, I was busy.
I had projects at work.
I couldn't go in.
I was locked up in my house formonths.
Not being able to access publictransportation because I live
rurally, couldn't drive anymore.
(07:00):
And my husband had to take on somany of the roles that I was
fulfilling, you know, in, inour, in our relationship, I was
looking after our company at thetime and dealing with our kids
and dealing with my agingparents and all of that burden
had to get shifted to myhusband, which made me feel
terribly guilty.
(07:21):
So, um, This perfect stormdeveloped and drove me to a
place where literally I was on abridge contemplating throwing
myself into the river underneathit.
And at that point, and I credit,I will always credit my husband
for saving my life because hedid so physically, but he did so
much more metaphysically aswell.
(07:43):
On that day, my extremelyintroverted husband created a
Facebook account and started toresearch seizure support groups
and in one of those seizuresupport groups he was told about
a ketogenic diet.
Once he told me about that, Isaid, okay, we're going all in.
(08:04):
I have a scientific mind.
I'm an analytical person.
I wanted to measure everything.
So I started measuring how oftenmy seizures came and when they
were during the month.
And were there any potentialtriggers?
And what I noticed was that Ihad way more seizures Right.
(08:25):
In the middle of my cycle.
So right when my period beganand I would sometimes have a
little blip of seizures rightwhen I ovulated both two periods
of time in ovulating women'slives where there's a big bump
in hormonal fluctuation.
So I started researching and Irealized that my seizures were
(08:46):
catamenial.
And what that means is thatthey're largely hormonally
driven.
Big spike in seizures as I'm apre pubescent girl and going
into my early teenage years.
Calmed down during my 20s and my30s.
Bumped up again as I started toenter those sort of
(09:06):
perimenopausal years.
And once I saw this picture veryclearly, I took that back to my
neurologist and said, Hey,here's my chart.
What do you think of this?
And he said, Oh, yeah.
That's what this is.
It didn't change the medicationhe wanted to keep me on, and it
didn't change the side effectsof the medication, but at least
(09:26):
I understood what was happening.
So as I transitioned onto aketogenic diet, it was It's
almost instantaneous, my seizurewithdrawal.
I would say less than a week,once I was in ketosis, I stopped
having seizures.
And I did not have anotherseizure for 49 days.
(09:47):
And on the day that I did, itwasn't even a full blown
seizure, it was an aura.
On that day, it was the daybefore my period started, so I
knew, okay.
I'm going to be on a very strictketogenic diet, but I still have
to be even more cautious rightbefore my period's coming or
(10:10):
right at the time of ovulation.
So if I were going to have aslightly higher carb day, it was
not going to be right before myperiod arrived.
So very quickly You know, ketoliterally saved me.
It literally saved me.
And there were some spinoff sideeffects for me as well, which we
can get into a little bit later.
(10:31):
Wow.
You know, even if I heard thatstory already, I am just in awe
of, you know, once you've toldthat story here today.
And just to recap, you hadstopped your medication at 18
years old and for 30 years youdidn't had one seizure and it
(10:52):
came back you were put onmedications again and which
caused this Rollercoaster ofemotions for you and not just
you your family as well foundketo and made some tweaking you
you Made your own observationand, you know, even went into a
more stricter keto.
And once you made thatadjustment, you since then off
(11:15):
medications, no more seizures.
And how do we explain that?
And alternative to that ismedications, which, yeah, go
ahead.
And I think it's important foryour listeners to understand
that, you know, medications canbe, can be really effective.
And for some people they workvery well.
And for some people, even ifthey apply a ketogenic diet,
(11:39):
They may still requiremedications, but it may not be
as many or it may not be as ahigher dosage so they can reduce
the side effects, some of whichare pretty horrible for, you
know, for antiepilepticmedication.
But the, you know, the biggestpiece for me was when I went to
my neurologist and I said, Hey,I'm going to try this.
He laughed at me.
He said, No, that only works forkids.
(12:01):
But it doesn't only work forkids.
It absolutely does work foradults.
And there are a group of us forwhom it works really, really
well.
And then there's another subsetfor whom it works a little bit
better, but not, it's nevergoing to completely eradicate
the need for medication.
And then for some forms ofepilepsy, it's not really going
(12:22):
to work at all.
And medication, you know, is, isgoing to be somebody's only
option.
But what I learned through thisprocess is that keto is, you
know, is a big buzzword rightnow.
Everybody's using the term keto,but I bet you that if we polled
a hundred of your listeners andasked them what keto means to
(12:43):
them, it's going to be a hundreddifferent answers because
there's just so much.
variation in, you know, in the,first of all, in the macros, and
then in what is actuallycontributing to those macros.
Are we talking about dirty ketoor clean keto or what?
So I do think it's reallyimportant that going forward,
(13:05):
You know, you guys know thatwhen I'm talking about a
ketogenic diet, I'm talkingabout a therapeutic ketogenic
diet where a person is inketosis 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year.
And that is not appropriate forthe vast majority of people.
(13:26):
Okay, it is very appropriate ifyou have epilepsy or if you have
a brain tumor or if you havelipedema, but if you are a
normal person who is trying toimprove their metabolism and
their metabolic health, then wecan talk about.
You know carbs in the range of20 to 50 total a day So when we
(13:49):
talk about a low carb diet,we're talking about under a
hundred grams of totalcarbohydrates a day Don't talk
to me about net.
Net does not exist.
Net is not a good thing when weare talking about therapeutic
keto in terms of A very low carbdiet, we're talking under 50 and
a ketogenic diet is usuallyunder 20 total grams a day and
(14:12):
that is not where the vastmajority of people who say
they're on a ketogenic diet are.
So I just really want to makethat clear that most people
don't have to go as hardcore asI do, but some people do and a
lot of people who try and thensay, well, it's not working for
me might be because.
(14:32):
They're applying net carbsinstead of total carbs, and they
actually are probably closer to80 or 90, you know, total carbs,
and that's just not a rangethat's gonna have, you know, the
sort of neurological, you know,outcome that you're looking for.
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Yeah, it's great to point outthat, you know, there are a lot
of, like you said, variations ofketo.
(15:58):
And there's a lot ofinterpretations about what a
keto diet is.
Obviously, you know, when wetalk about therapeutic effects
of the ketogenic diet, we weretalking about a well formulated
keto diet.
I want to also, you know,comment on, you know, keto for
children, because you know.
(16:18):
In the 60s, I think, or the 70s,the children were born with
epilepsy who were, I think, drugresistant.
They put them on this high fat,low carb diet.
They haven't coined it keto yet.
And they had huge success inthat.
So, I'm not sure why it'scomplicated for adults as I
(16:38):
don't get that.
How they, how it was good forchildren and not for adults.
And, in your experience, youhaven't had any seizures since.
No, I'm, I'm eight years seizurefree now.
And I think, you know, the, thekey piece to that though, is
that even in those days whenthey were doing this diet, there
was an awful lot of manipulationin order to get enough calories
(17:02):
because these kids would loseweight and they would lose a lot
of it.
And you don't want that whenyou've got a baby that's trying
to grow and especially a babywho, you know, is.
Born neurologically reallyimmature.
Like most people don't realizethat human infants come out only
25 percent hardwired.
That's it.
That hardwiring takes place inthe first two years of life
(17:24):
outside of the womb.
So you really want to make surethat that kiddo has all the
building blocks required to growtheir brain appropriately and
their body appropriately.
And what I'm finding a littledistressing about, you know, a
lot of the sort of social mediaout there is that 90 percent of
it is desserts, which is notreally helpful for anybody who
(17:46):
is trying to base theirnutritional value.
And I think that, that reallywhat we need to bring the lens
back to a little bit is thatwhen we're making these changes,
the goal here is to have ahealthier lifestyle.
So the goal should always be tohave the most nutritionally
dense diet you can possibly havegiven whatever restrictions you
(18:09):
have to have for your.
You know, your mental health,your, your neurological health.
I can't have three big salads aday, even if I wanted them.
I couldn't do it because I justcan't have those kind of carbs.
But I make sure that what goesinto me is the highest
nutritional And I do eat ketosweets.
(18:32):
Yes, I do.
If you look at my Instagram,there will be a few little
things there, but they're rareand, and they're really for
special days like birthdays orcelebrations.
And I really focus hard on, ontrying to make sure that I give
my body the best.
best nutrition for optimalenzymatic function, metabolic
function that I possibly can.
(18:54):
And so, you know, kudos toeverybody out there who wants to
strengthen their own system andget, you know, healthier and
keto is a great way to do that.
But I do want to underscore thatmost people can get by on, you
know, under a hundred grams aday and do very well unless they
are metabolically reallydysregulated and then they
(19:15):
really need to get down under 50grams.
And that's a great opportunityto start building some
intermittent fasting into thereas well.
And I don't mean.
time restricted feeding becausethat's a little different but
like actual fasts that arelonger than 24 hours.
Great way to spend some time inketosis but also spend some time
(19:36):
out because if you're a dualfuel burner and you are not
metabolically broken, And thenstay a dual fuel burner, but
just make sure that when you arenot in ketosis, you're not in
ketosis because you ate healthystuff, not because you decided
it was time to head over to thedonut store and, you know, have
(19:56):
your cheat day.
I want you to take this back.
I think this is important forpeople who maybe just found
keto, you know, for it, maybehave they have the, uh, The same
condition like you did, whatmade it easy for you to make a
decision?
I could imagine it wasn't thathard for you to make that
(20:17):
decision to switch to keto.
Once you've discovered it, youknow what?
It might surprise you, but itreally was.
And it was hard because it washard to sustain back in those
days.
There, there was nothing with astamp on it that said keto.
And by the way, If it says ketoon the package, it does not mean
that it is going to keep you inketosis.
(20:38):
I just really want to be clearabout that.
You can absolutely be in ketosiseating carbs if you are in a
state of calorie restriction.
It is not necessarily about whatyour, you know, the, The, the,
the food set that says ketodoesn't necessarily mean it's
going to keep you in ketosis.
And a lot of the stuff out therenow that I see branded as keto
(21:00):
is garbage.
And, and there's no way I wouldbring it near me.
I've tested some of those foodswith a, you know, beta
hydroxybutyrate monitor beforeand after, and it blows out my
ketones.
So no, I, I really think it'simportant that people get That,
you know, the food that you eatshould be mostly made at home.
(21:21):
And when I started, there wasnothing.
Like I couldn't even find almondflour, you know, half the time.
And there were no carbonatebread substitutes that were
roughly, you know, that wereokay and didn't have a big boost
of blood sugar.
There was nothing like that evenin existence.
So, it was hard and every time Iwent to a meeting at work and
(21:42):
everybody had all the junk foodout there, that was hard.
My husband cooked for me for thefirst eight months.
He did everything.
He made all of my foods.
He made me little safe ketosnacks that I could have without
destroying my, my, my ketonelevels.
He did everything to help me onboard.
So my environment at home wasreally supportive and my kids
(22:07):
For the most part, we'resupportive, I'll be honest, you
know, they were teenagers.
They were like, what?
We can't have any junk in thehouse?
I'm like, nope, sorry, you can'thave any carbs in the house, let
alone junk.
You want bread?
You go get it at grandma'shouse.
That's, that's sort of the, the,the, the environment that we had
and that helped.
And if you don't have that, ifyou don't have a partner or the
(22:29):
people around you who arewilling to be supportive, it is
so much harder.
Because even when I couldclearly see.
I just want to tell you thatthis was stopping my seizures.
It was still a struggle.
I'd say it took me four yearsbefore I stopped craving bread,
like four years.
And now I don't crave bread atall.
It's not not at all on my radar.
(22:50):
I miss wine, but you know, Ievery once in a while I'll have
a glass of very low carb wine,but Generally speaking, I avoid
alcohol because again, alcoholis very high up there, you know,
in what gets metabolized first.
So if you really need to be inketosis, you can't be drinking
(23:10):
alcohol, period.
There is no good wine.
There is no good beer.
There is no good, you know,single malt scotch.
There's lots of good single maltscotch, but there's none that's
really going to be acceptableBecause, you know, it just, in
terms of, of what gets burntfirst, alcohol gets burnt first
because you can't store itanywhere except your liver.
So it is, you know, it is offthe list if you're on a
(23:34):
therapeutic ketogenic diet.
If you're just on a gettinghealthier ketogenic diet, then
sure, in moderation, recognizingthat, you know, alcohol first,
right?
So it's, it's important to, tominimize that if your goal is,
you know, to not have seizures.
Cheers.
I love that your, your pointwith having that, my wife is
(23:57):
here, she supported me when Iwas, you know, in my deepest
depression and she was there andwithout her, you know, on my,
you know, I was recentlyinterviewed on another show and
I told her, I told them thatwithout my wife, she saved my
life and it was, it was not thesame like your story, but you
(24:21):
know, you need great support tobe able to, um, You know,
sustain this diet because it's,it is hard.
Nobody's saying it's easy.
It is.
It can be a simple change.
You know, it's, it's, we can'tsay it's easy.
We are trying to break habitshere.
Um, I wanna, you said there's awrong way of doing this and you,
(24:50):
you mentioned alcohol.
What are the other, do yourecall anything else?
If, if there's anything that youwould have done differently back
then, knowing what you alreadyknow now, is there anything that
you've cleaned up?
Really helped me the most backthen was that I really took
control of.
(25:11):
Charting everything.
So I had a really good app, Iuse Chronometer, big shout out
to Chronometer, fabulous app.
And I put everything in there.
I weighed and measuredeverything.
I did not guess.
I did not cheat.
I took my ketones with a bloodstick every single morning and
my blood sugar every singlemorning.
And even though I wasn'tdiabetic.
(25:34):
I was pre diabetic back then.
My doctor hadn't even told methat.
I looked at my blood workretroactively and said that's
way too high.
So, you know, I didn't, I didn'trealize it at the time, but you
know now not a problem.
But back then certainly was abit of an issue.
So I charted everything.
And so if I had a day where mybrain wasn't feeling really
(25:54):
good, I looked at what I ate theday before and I wondered, did I
overdo something or maybesomething I'm a bit sensitive
to?
So for me, that charting reallyallowed me to clearly see Where
I was making gains and where Iwas not and not a lot of people
do that They may chart loosely,but they don't chart by weighing
(26:16):
and measuring everything whichis onerous.
I won't lie It's like it's timeconsuming and sometimes it can
be a bit OCD and if peoplestruggle from you know Eating
disorders or or OCD in generalit can be a bit of a trigger so
I just want to you know, I justwant to say that that is
absolutely a thing and and Youknow, shout out to, to the folks
(26:36):
who are really battling withthat.
And we don't want to starttriggering eating disorders with
weighing and measuring.
But again, if you're dealingwith therapeutic keto, you have
to, you don't get into atherapeutic level.
And unless you are today, it'sactually in some ways it's
easier because there's a bitmore access to the sort of stuff
(26:56):
that we need to, you know, stillenjoy life like erythritol, but.
There's so much out there that'slabeled keto and people think,
Oh, if I just buy that, that'sgoing to keep me in ketosis.
No, it's not.
When I do, you know, sessions inthe community and I have 30
people show up, I'll test themall.
Guess how many in a group of 30actually have ketones?
(27:19):
Like I'm talking any ketones,not just therapeutic levels of
ketones.
It's less than 5%.
So it's important to understandthat it's about ketones.
You know, it is about calorieintake in the sense that, you
know, 5, 000 calories is goingto knock you out of ketosis.
Especially if you're eatingstuff that is labeled, you know,
(27:42):
ketogenic that really maybeisn't.
If you start looking at theingredients, you can start to
see a lot of things that aremaybe not so healthy.
So I guess what it all comesdown to is every Every aspect of
your health starts with realfood.
So if the, the guiding light inyour dietary choices, whatever
(28:04):
they are, is real food, then youare already on a really good
path.
If you augment that with theoccasional yumminess from
somebody's awesome, you know,YouTube channel or whatever,
that's okay.
But if you're basically livingon, you know, keto fat bombs or
on, you know, mug cakes andthat's your, that's your diet,
(28:28):
that is not going to contributeto your overall global health.
It just isn't.
So start with real food.
Augment where you need to, butbe really suspect when something
says keto.
It's like looking at a thing ofbroccoli and there's a plant
based and a keto stamp on it.
What?
(28:49):
It's broccoli.
You know, that, that, that isjust all about pitching to you
and selling to you as aconsumer.
And I think it's important thatwe just.
We're a little bit suspect whenpeople are trying to pitch stuff
to us and that we read theingredients.
That's, that's really, I thinkgot to be my biggest message.
So I think.
(29:10):
Also, an important piece that weneed to highlight here is, um,
you were, since we started ketogoing back to when, you know,
beginning of the keto diet foryou, you were still getting
auras, like you said, and so itdidn't completely get away from
you and did, and you did mentionthat, you know, I think it is
(29:34):
important because for anyone whois listening here, um, Can you
go through some of the factorsthat may still cause aura and
changes have you made in yourdiet to completely get rid of
them?
So I haven't had any auras sincethat first couple of months on
keto.
That, that, that breakthroughaura I had was definitely
(29:55):
contributed, you know, byhormones.
So, what I started doingdifferently was right before my
period was due, I would makesure 100 percent that I was at
like the 10 gram of carbs a day,which is basically the carbs
that comes from your eggs, youknow, and, and like maybe two
tablespoons of whipping cream.
(30:15):
That's it.
So it's, it's not a lot.
I have not had an aura sincethat.
I do have other issues that I,you know, I have to be careful
around.
So I suffer from somethingcalled lipedema, which is a rare
fat disorder where I havereally, really little waist and
really big hips.
(30:37):
And lipedema is It's widelyunderstood to not respond to any
dietary changes.
You could be eating 600 caloriesa day for a month, your lipedema
would not be affected.
You'd lose weight, but it wouldall be from your face and your
chest and other parts of yourbody that are not affected by
this, you know, this, this typeof fat that is, is broken.
(30:59):
The cells are just so huge.
There's not a lot of goodintercellular and extracellular
communication happening anymore.
So they don't respond tohormones in the way, you know,
like they don't respond toinsulin and in the same way as
other fat cells do.
So what I found is that all of asudden with keto, I could lose
weight.
I tried to lose weight for 20years.
(31:21):
And with keto, boom, I lost ahundred pounds.
I did not lose a hundred poundsin a year like a lot of people
do because I have lipedema.
It took me about two and a halfyears to lose those hundred
pounds and, and I've been ableto, by and large, keep them off.
However, I am eight years olderthan I was when I started and
that means that I'm, skirtingwith that lovely little phase of
(31:44):
women's lives called menopause.
And I'm almost there.
And I'm noticing because I don'tget hungry because I don't
actually eat a lot of caloriesbecause I'm not hungry, I'm
starting to gain more lipidemafat in my thighs.
And I looked at this a couple ofmonths ago and I said, okay,
time to do some, you know, timeto do a reality check.
(32:06):
You know, how many actual carbsam I taking in?
Where are those carbs comingfrom?
Do I need to be eating moreprotein now?
So I started doing a little bitof experimenting, you know,
three weeks doing one thing,three weeks doing something
else.
And what I'm realizing is thatfor me at this stage in my life.
I have to prioritize a minimumof 80 grams of protein a day,
(32:30):
minimum, and preferably a littlecloser to 120.
And I have to make sure that I'mnot ever cheating.
And cheating for me is eatingthe occasional bite of sweet
potato, so I can't do thatanymore.
So I think what's also importantis that people realize that your
(32:51):
keto and my keto is not going tobe the same.
If you're a man, it's not thesame as if you're a woman.
If you're 20, it's not the sameas if you're 50.
If you were breastfed, it is notthe same as if you were not
breastfed.
There are nuances that reallyimpact what you need to do to
(33:11):
move the lever on your ownpersonal health goals, and they
are not generic, so everybody isnot going to be able to do the
same thing and get the sameresults.
We are individuals, we responddifferently, our environments
impact us differently, we havedifferent epigenetic
programming.
(33:31):
So we do need to.
Be able to tweak appropriatelyto get the results we want.
Yeah, we, we do have differenttriggers and our bodies respond
to keto differently.
And you mentioned that you.
Lost a hundred pounds in two anda half years, which, you know,
(33:53):
on a strict keto diet, you know,to some, to somebody that's
probably way too long to losethat much to lose a hundred in
two and a half years.
And you've been so consistentwith this.
I want to, I want to talk to youabout another point that I think
we need to highlight is you,you, how did you taper off your
(34:14):
meds or did you went cold Turkeywith it when you started keto?
Great question, Lawrence.
Thank you for asking that.
No, I, this time, because Iwasn't 18, I went under medical
supervision.
We cut back my Keppra.
Once we realized I wasn't havingseizures at all, we dropped it
(34:34):
back quite quickly.
I was at the maximum dose, so wecut it in half.
And then we cut it back in halfagain within the second month,
and then I asked my physician ifI could come off it entirely,
and he was not comfortable withthat.
So he said, no, you're going togo and do blood work.
And now we're going to scale youback over the next six months.
(34:56):
So he made me take almost eightmonths to get off the medication
when I would have been reallyhappy doing it in three.
But he said, no, we're, we'regoing to do the blood work.
And when we did the blood work,there was no measurable amount
of the medication in mybloodstream anymore.
And that's when he said, okay,now we're going to cut you back
(35:17):
to the lowest dose for a month.
Just to make sure because hedidn't want me to lose my
license again He didn't want meto lose, you know, all of all of
the stuff that I've been able toget back So I was very grateful
to him for that supervision Andso it did take about eight
months to come completely offthe meds and the funny thing is
before I started keto Um, I Iwas taking the equivalent of
(35:43):
about 1, 800 a month inmedication.
Now, for your US audience,they'll relate to that.
In Canada, we have most of thatcovered.
So, it wasn't costing meanything, but it was costing all
the taxpayers of my country.
1, 800 a month.
When I started keto, I stopped.
all medicine.
I didn't need medicine to sleepanymore, for pain anymore, for
(36:07):
anything anymore.
I didn't even need to take, youknow, the occasional Advil
maybe, but that's it.
So I went from 1, 800 a month ofmeds to zero for the last eight
years.
I want to, you know, get to helpsomebody approach their doctor
because, you know, it can be, itcan be a hard thing to do once
(36:28):
you decide to.
Switch your diet and get off themeds completely.
How do we best prepare ourselveswhen we approach our doctor
about this?
Because I understand that someof the doctors are not, don't
highly recommend it, you know,getting off the meds first of
all, and.
You know, changing your diet torely on that completely.
(36:49):
What, to that, what do you say?
Well, first and foremost, it'simportant that everybody
understands that they have theright to informed decision
making.
And that means that yourhealthcare provider is there to
provide you with information sothat you can make an informed
decision about your care, but itis your decision.
(37:11):
It is not anyone else's decisionexcept yours.
So get your healthcare provider.
on side by being reasonable bysaying, This is something I want
to explore.
I don't want to be dumb aboutit.
I don't want to be, it's unsafeabout it.
So let's do some baseline bloodwork, and then I'm going to show
(37:31):
you what my plan is, and thenwe'll do blood work again in
three months, and we'll see howthat's going.
And I'm not, I'm not justtalking for epilepsy, I'm
talking about for diabetes, oryou know, whatever, whatever
your issue is that you'replanning to approach with a
ketogenic diet.
So Because some people are notgood candidates for keto.
And, and that, that is onlygoing to be found out if you're
(37:52):
doing the blood work.
And if you, you know, have ahistory of, you know, family
hyperlipidemia, this is not thediet for you.
I'm happy to say it's a verysmall minority.
But it is, you know, it is onlythose few people who have, you
know, familialhypercholesterolemia and those
kinds of things that who reallyhave to watch out.
(38:13):
You'll know if you're doing theblood work.
You'll see everything get betterif you're doing the blood work.
And if it's not, then you can dosome little tweaking, some
little modifications to seewhether you do need to add a few
more carbs.
And that's okay, but by a few Istill mean under a hundred.
And good carbs, like, you know,salad, sweet potatoes,
(38:34):
vegetables.
But I do think that thisdialogue can be entered into
when there is a collaboration.
And, and I'm hoping thatEveryone out there has a
physician who is collaborativewith them.
And if you say, I want to dothis, I want to do it with your
support, so you tell me what youneed to feel comfortable, that
(38:55):
I'm not, you know, going to doanything crazy.
We're going to talk about ittogether, create a plan
together, do the blood work,assess it again in three to six
months, and then make anychanges that need to happen.
Most of the time, your physicianwill be blown away by how much
improved your blood markers are,And by blood markers, I mean
fasting insulin, you know, yourHbA1c, blood glucose, iron
(39:19):
level, cholesterol for the largepart does actually get better.
Mine certainly got a lot better.
So, but there will be somepeople who it doesn't and then
that's a different discussion.
But if you're in thatconversation with your care
provider, it's going to go somuch better for everybody.
So just really seeking outinformation and, and really
trying to have thatcollaborative approach I think
(39:42):
is, is going to be a winner ninetimes out of 10.
I love that answer.
And I think also having a coach,having somebody to keep you
accountable again, because thisis not an easy change.
There's a lot of unlearning todo.
And there's a lot of educationbecause you have to know how it
works.
You have to know why keto worksand how it works and how to fuel
(40:03):
your body before you couldactually, you know, get yourself
going.
And Most of this is mental, whatneeds to happen in, in your
brain, you have to change your,you should have to shift that
mindset into, you know, actuallytaking action, building habits,
but, you know, easier said thandone because there's a process
(40:24):
to breaking those habits.
And for you, you had all thereason to make a change, but
it's, it was still hard for youand because that's a testament
that how hard it is to make thatchange, you know, obviously.
This is something that is veryuncommon.
Right.
And you're basically goingagainst the grain.
(40:47):
And for me, having a coach is soimportant in the beginning.
And if you're somebody thatcan't do this by yourself, know
that there's an option there foryou.
I want to know, Jillian, do youstill coach people today?
Yeah, I do.
Especially people who arelooking therapeutically because
(41:07):
there's so many little I do.
Ways to get derailed from thatand so, you know, I can really
help people get into a placewhere they understand what is
you know, what is going to workfor them and that they How not
to get derailed by by all thestuff that says it's keto I hear
that a lot, but it said it wasketo and now I'm you know My
(41:30):
ketones are blown and that'sanother thing to just kind of
put out there that But peopleare measuring ketones and sort
of chasing ketones and that'snot appropriate either.
Ketone measurement is a tool tohelp you figure, basically
biohack yourself.
But in the early days, if you'rejust testing with acetone
strips, peeing on them, I rarelytest positive with acetone tests
(41:56):
now because I've been doing thisfor eight years.
I've been in ketosis for eightyears.
I check my beta hydroxybutyrateevery single morning.
And that is when it will be thelowest in the day for me and I
check especially when I'mworking out I will check pre and
post workout because I'm using alot of ketones during my workout
(42:17):
So it's a it's a threat areaIt's an area where anyone who's
got a seizure has to be a bitcareful and I'm generally not a
big fan of I'm a big fan ofexogenous ketones for people
with epilepsy, especiallychildren.
If they are doing a lot ofactivity and they're on a
ketogenic diet, I've had parentscall me and say, but you know,
(42:37):
Jill, my son after his firstsoccer game is fine and he
always has a seizure after thesecond soccer game.
Yep.
Cause he's blowing through hisketones.
He's using them all for energyand that is actually causing his
brain to not have the level itrequires to remain seizure free.
So that parent.
started implementing a ketonesupplement right before the
(42:59):
second soccer game.
And lo and behold, no moreseizures because we needed to
bring that up artificially forthat, you know, hour or two that
he was playing soccer, afterwhich his body gets back into
its normal state.
So ketones, but they do have arole to play and their main role
(43:20):
to play is to help the is in atherapeutic application with
things like epilepsy,Parkinson's disease, you know,
those kinds of, those kinds ofissues.
Definitely not for anyone whowants to lose fat because Why
would you want to drink ketones?
You want to be making them?
Because making them means you'reburning fat.
(43:40):
So I do think that it isimportant that, you know, people
don't sort of misunderstand thepower of ketones.
The real power of ketones is theones you make yourself.
That's the real power.
From a therapeutic perspective,exogenous ketones have a very
important role to play and theywill, you will see more of that
(44:01):
in the science and just look atthe work that Don D'Agostino has
done over the last 10 years.
So I really think that they dohave a role, but it's mainly in
a therapeutic role, not as anutritional adjunct.
I think that, you know, thosewho are really trying to improve
their health.
Need to actually do the work andthat means not second back, you
(44:22):
know, a ton of betahydroxybutyrate salts that, you
know, don't taste very good andartificially increase your
ketone levels.
You know, some people are very,also very hard on themselves
too, because I understand thatfor me, I've been, you know, on
the Keto diet for, you know, notlong, three years now, but I
(44:43):
still do crave.
I still have those times.
And this is something that's apractice that you have to do
every single day.
You have to consciously.
Decide for yourself and what'sgood for you.
And what's the alternativereally for me?
The alternative is, you know,eating junk and being depressed.
(45:04):
So no, thank you.
So that's what keeps meconsistent on this diet.
And if you don't link eatingthis way to feeling good, you
won't make that connection.
You have to.
Link feeling good to eating awell formed keto diet or, you
know, some food that's, that'snourishing for you because if
(45:27):
you don't link it, then you'renot going to be, you're not
gonna credit.
eating well.
So you're always going to belooking for those cravings.
It's never going to be worth itfor you.
Yeah.
So did we miss anything Jillianhere?
I don't want to miss anything.
Jillian I think to sort of carryon from what you were just
(45:48):
saying there, Lawrence, I think,I think you're right.
It's got to be, it's got to comefrom within.
You've got to want it for you.
And you do have to link back tothat feeling of wellness.
However, I will say that we allin North America live in a food
obsessed society where we haveaccess to so much junk all the
(46:09):
time that it is really, reallyhard.
So you can pick the days.
You can say my birthday everyyear.
I'm gonna eat all the thingsthat I want to eat.
I used to love Nutella.
Like, if you'd put a plate ofNutella in front of me, or just
like a bucket of it, I would goto town on that.
Like, you would not believe.
I'd eat the whole thing.
(46:31):
I don't think I could even eatlike a teaspoon of it now.
It is so sweet and my palate haschanged so much in eight years
that biting into a strawberryblows my mind.
Like that is like, Oh my God,it's orgasmic.
It tastes so good because I havea much lower sweet perception.
(46:54):
So one of the tips I might giveyour listeners is to You're all
going to make keto sweets.
We all do it.
You're, you're going to find theperfect cinnamon bun recipe and
you're going to make thatrecipe.
I know it.
You're all going to do it.
But if you start by dropping therequired erythritol in that
recipe by a third, and in a fewmonths you drop it down to a
(47:15):
half, what you will end up doingis Still getting what you want.
Your brain will not be quite socravey about it and you won't
want to eat three.
You'll just, you'll be veryhappy with just one.
And, if, you know, we're dissingon all the folks that are eating
ten pounds of sugar every yearand What are we doing?
(47:39):
We're just substituting it for10 pounds of erythritol.
That means we haven't addressedthe core problem, which is that
we have a problem with sweetstuff.
Our brains are programmed tolike it, and we have a hard time
letting it go.
So do yourselves a favor.
Any recipes that you'redownloading.
automatically cut back thesweetener by a minimum of a
(48:02):
third and then retest.
And I remember I was actually atKetoCon probably two years ago.
I guess it was right before thepandemic.
That was the last time I wasable to get down there.
And I was talking to a lot ofthe people who were, you know,
offering up stuff, you know,stuff, just cookies and cakes
and all the stuff that they havethere.
And, and I, I went to one.
(48:22):
Place and they were offeringthis Frappuccino that was meant
to compete with the StarbucksFrappuccino and I had a taste of
it and I had to spit it out andI said, Oh my God, that is so
sweet.
Can you not tone down that abit?
Because the people here are noteating nearly as much sugar and
they're going to have a lowerthreshold for sweet.
(48:42):
And the guy said to me, but I'mcompeting in the market with
Starbucks Frappuccino, so I haveto make it the same sweetness.
And I thought to myself, hetotally missed the point.
The person who wants to pick upthat Keto Frappuccino is trying
really hard to make their healthbetter.
So, why don't you help them dothat by tone it down, even if
(49:03):
it's just by a third.
So, you know, my news to, youknow, my, my, I guess my message
to all of the keto creators outthere for food is either you
need to have levels, you know,like beginner keto where the
sweetness is a lot higher and,you know, hardcore doing this
for eight years keto half asmuch sweetener.
(49:25):
I don't know how you got to doit, but I frequently don't buy
any of that stuff anymorebecause it's too sweet for me.
I'd rather make it myself andreduce the amount of sweetener
in the recipe.
I'm going to go online rightnow, download about 10 recipes
and change it to half of whattheir sweetener is and make it
my own.
(49:45):
Put it in a book.
What's your favorite food,Lawrence?
What's your, what's your go to,what's your go to gravy food?
Ah, it's the burger without thebuns, lettuce wraps from
Wendy's.
No, no ketchup.
Just, uh, just the lettuce wrapfor me.
I I'm a burger guy before I loveburgers, but, but for me, I I've
(50:09):
enjoyed lettuce wrap ever sinceI started keto.
So it's for me, Maria Emmerich.
I'm not, I'm not sure familiar.
Maria Emmerich said that onceyou, once you, once you.
Change your mindset from, Ican't have that to, I don't want
that.
Then that's when you know,you're turning the corner.
(50:31):
So that that's stuck with me.
And to this day, when I go tothe grocery store, to the
aisles, I don't want it anymore.
It used to be, I can't have thatnow.
I don't want it.
I don't have that same, youknow, cravings for those items
anymore.
It's not worth it for me, man.
So I used to struggle with that.
(50:53):
Like just seeing it is.
Well, when Maria and I did theKeto Cruise together, and I
gotta throw this recipe in forMaria because it's a great, it's
a great recipe.
When Maria and I were on theKeto Cruise together a couple of
years ago, and we were, we werejust hanging out and I was
telling her that the first timeI ever tried her chocolate egg
(51:13):
pudding, which is literally madewith hard boiled eggs, I, I was
like, Maria, this can't be athing.
Like, honestly, I don't buy it.
I do not believe that you canmake chocolate pudding taste
good made out of boiled eggs.
And so I sent her a message andI said, I'm going to try it, but
I'm only going to make half therecipe.
Cause like, I just, I can't, Ican't see it.
And oh my gosh, it was so good.
(51:35):
And so now it's like a go to forme, and it's delicious.
And when I want chocolatepudding, I just make Maria's egg
pudding, which is delicious.
It hits the spot.
I feel like it is all wholefoods, and it has even, you
know, lower sweetener than evenshe recommends.
And she's actually pretty goodabout not making the sweetness
(51:56):
level insanely high in herrecipes.
But try it.
Just, you know, try modifyingjust a little bit and, and it's
okay to have the things that youlove.
Find the things you crave and,you know, make them a little bit
healthier.
I won't say make them more ketobecause there's really no such
thing as a ketogenic food.
It is either food that keeps youin ketosis or food that kicks
(52:19):
you out.
But that doesn't mean by itselfit is a ketogenic food.
So I think it's important thatwe, that we, Use that language
as well, and just remember thatall the decisions that we make
are about how we want to feel,you know, six hours from now,
tomorrow.
So you, you are obviously doingan amazing job on your own
journey, and kudos to you,because it isn't easy.
(52:41):
And there are people around whowant to derail us, and, and
just, I think that, Being aneducator as we are is actually a
really helpful way of helpingkeep us ourselves on track,
right?
And keeping ourselvesaccountable because it also
means that, that we can sharewhen people are saying, Hey,
come on, Joe, why don't you justhave this one little piece of
(53:01):
chocolate I'll say, cause Idon't want to be able to educate
them about why it is.
I love it.
Jillian.
I enjoyed this conversation somuch.
And not just because of whatyou're sharing here about your
story.
You're, you're definitelychanging lives out here.
But also how you approach thingsis, is so different from like
(53:23):
other people that I've talked toand you have, you, you have this
passion that I feel that energythat you have, that's, you know,
just wanting to help others outthere to do this the right way.
And so I, I really commend youon that.
And congratulations for, youknow, not having seizures for
(53:44):
eight years.
That's amazing.
And, uh, If that's not, ifthat's not, you know, evidence
of keto working for, for, peoplefor your condition.
I don't know what it is.
Thank you so much once again forsharing your story here today,
Jillian.
I appreciate it.
Where can people find you,Jillian?
You can find me on Instagram.
I'm on Instagram, and I guessyou can just sort of attach this
(54:06):
all to the podcast so people canfind it, but I'm keto.
for, spelled out, F O R, dotlife on Instagram, and
ketoalldayeveryday.
com.
And, and they can, they canemail me at keto all day, every
day at gmail.
com.
I'm going to definitely going tolink everything in the
description below guys.
So definitely check out Jillianagain.
(54:27):
Thank you so much, Jillian, forsharing your story and we'll
talk to you soon.
Thanks so much, Lawrence, keepdoing what you do.
Bye bye.
Hey guys, this is Lawrence andwelcome back to the ketones and
(00:02):
coffee podcast.
And thank you so much for tuningin.
I know everyone here that'slistening are here because you
want to create a sustainable,healthy lifestyle to the
ketogenic diet.
And every single week I try tobring in guests.
That not only has knowledge, butthese individuals has also been
through the same trials that weall have been through.
When it comes down to our searchfor a better health, we get
(00:24):
together in hopes to assist youon your own journey.
Stick around guys, because ourguest today is a health policy
promotion and educationconsultant with her mission to
improve the health and wellbeing of communities at risk.
And she believes that optimalnutrition should be the standard
of care.
Her writing, interviews,coaching, and public speaking
(00:47):
engagement serve asopportunities to build community
and share successes whiledrawing attention to the
therapeutic possibilities of aketogenic diet to change lives,
and in some instances, savethem.
She is a coach practitionertrained in a low carbohydrate
and keto lifestyle.
I'm here with Jillian Zolas.
(01:08):
Jillian, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
What an awesome introduction.
That was fantastic.
Thank you.
It's, it's my honor.
Honor is all mine because, youknow, by just looking at the
title of this episode, you kindof know already to anyone that's
listening, the discussion we'reabout to have here, she is also.
(01:29):
One hell of a storyteller too.
So, and how are you Jillian?
What's, what's been keeping youbusy these days?
I have been very, very busy, butI'm well, thank you so much.
And in fact, I just celebratedmy eighth year seizure free
thanks to a ketogenic diet.
Literally, it was last week wasmy anniversary.
(01:49):
So that made me extremely happy.
I love that.
Jillian's keto success story is,I promise you, one you don't
want to miss.
So stick till the end.
So I'm going to shut up, shut uphere and, and give you the floor
here because you, you best toldyour story on multiple speaking
engagement that you had.
And when I heard about yourstory, I wanted to talk to you
(02:13):
and bring you to the podcast so,you know, our listeners can, uh,
Can, you know, listen and helpthem impact with your story.
And Jillian, please tell us yourstory.
Absolutely.
Well, my story has a couple ofparts.
I'll sort of back up to, to myearlier life where, you know,
just chugging along as a happygo lucky kid.
(02:36):
Around the age of 12, I startedto experience absent seizures
and actually I guess it wasprobably a little earlier than
that, but we didn't know what tocall them until a bit later.
And so, these would come andthey would go and frequently
they wouldn't be happeningduring the summer when I was off
from school and I was having alot of fun.
So, when my mom was trying tofigure out what was going on
(02:58):
with me, all of the physicianswere telling them, It's just in
her head.
It's a psychiatric issue.
It's not a physiological issuebecause it only happens during
school time and not when she'soff for the summer.
Progress forward a couple moreyears.
These are getting more and morefrequent.
They're starting to come intothe summer.
(03:18):
And finally, my mom corners myneighbor who is an amazing
urologist at a dinner party andsays, I really need you to see
my daughter.
And at this point I was 14.
And probably seizing.
Anywhere from 2 to 15 times aday, and still being told that
this was just in my head.
Wow.
So, it was in my head, but itwasn't something I had any
(03:39):
control over.
So, the neurologist did a bunchof tests, and definitely, I
finally got a diagnosis of lefttemporal lobe epilepsy.
And he put me on medication.
And the medication I was put onat the time was something called
Tegretol and it was veryeffective.
It stopped my seizures.
I had one ground mall seizure,but then after that I had no
(04:00):
more seizures.
But it came at a cost and thatcost was my memory.
So during high school, I didn'treally care about my memory so
much.
I cared about driving a car.
So that's, that was the thingthat was the most important and
not having seizures.
So the medication is causing youthis memory loss.
Yeah, but I was having quitesignificant memory loss.
So by the time I was about 18and I was looking at going to
(04:23):
university, I really needed tochange things up because I
couldn't retain information formore than about 48 hours.
So, I did a very stupid thingand something I would never
recommend, which is stopped mymedication.
So, the good news is I did nothave any further seizures.
And so, I basically forgot thatI had epilepsy.
(04:44):
I went to university, Igraduated, everything was good,
I got married, I had babies,everything was good.
And then, out of the blue, in2014, as I started to enter
those perimenopausal years wherethere's a lot of hormone
fluctuation.
I had a seizure and the veryfirst sort of awareness of
(05:06):
problems coming was an aura afew days before that seizure,
but I, you know, was busy andhad stuff to do and just decided
to deny it, pretend it wasn'tactually happening.
So it took a few days.
Gillian, I want to ask youbefore you continue with your
story, why do you think, did youever look up why?
(05:29):
It's stopped after you stop yourmedications and why it came back
at, you know, after 30 years.
Absolutely.
I'm going to tell you exactlywhy.
I'll get to that.
Don't worry.
So in, in terms of the seizurefrequency, once they came back,
They came back just like out ofthe blue.
So aura one day, aura two dayslater, first seizure the day
(05:53):
after that, three seizures thenext day, eight seizures the day
after that.
So they were ramping up and ofcourse by this point I had been
in hospital.
I had been fully worked up.
I had a neurology consult andthey put me on medication.
And this time they put me on amedication called Keppra and it
did not take long before I wasat the maximum dose of my
(06:17):
Keppra.
And this medication, it can bevery helpful for lots of people.
For me, the side effects werehorrific.
I had uncontrollable rage,uncontrollable depression, and
I've never suffered fromdepression before in my life.
So this was very new to me.
And it got to the point where Iwas having a lot of suicidal
(06:38):
thoughts, not just because ofthe Keppra, but because of how
negatively my life had suddenlybeen impacted.
You know, I was busy.
I had projects at work.
I couldn't go in.
I was locked up in my house formonths.
Not being able to access publictransportation because I live
rurally, couldn't drive anymore.
(07:00):
And my husband had to take on somany of the roles that I was
fulfilling, you know, in, inour, in our relationship, I was
looking after our company at thetime and dealing with our kids
and dealing with my agingparents and all of that burden
had to get shifted to myhusband, which made me feel
terribly guilty.
(07:21):
So, um, This perfect stormdeveloped and drove me to a
place where literally I was on abridge contemplating throwing
myself into the river underneathit.
And at that point, and I credit,I will always credit my husband
for saving my life because hedid so physically, but he did so
much more metaphysically aswell.
(07:43):
On that day, my extremelyintroverted husband created a
Facebook account and started toresearch seizure support groups
and in one of those seizuresupport groups he was told about
a ketogenic diet.
Once he told me about that, Isaid, okay, we're going all in.
(08:04):
I have a scientific mind.
I'm an analytical person.
I wanted to measure everything.
So I started measuring how oftenmy seizures came and when they
were during the month.
And were there any potentialtriggers?
And what I noticed was that Ihad way more seizures Right.
(08:25):
In the middle of my cycle.
So right when my period beganand I would sometimes have a
little blip of seizures rightwhen I ovulated both two periods
of time in ovulating women'slives where there's a big bump
in hormonal fluctuation.
So I started researching and Irealized that my seizures were
(08:46):
catamenial.
And what that means is thatthey're largely hormonally
driven.
Big spike in seizures as I'm apre pubescent girl and going
into my early teenage years.
Calmed down during my 20s and my30s.
Bumped up again as I started toenter those sort of
(09:06):
perimenopausal years.
And once I saw this picture veryclearly, I took that back to my
neurologist and said, Hey,here's my chart.
What do you think of this?
And he said, Oh, yeah.
That's what this is.
It didn't change the medicationhe wanted to keep me on, and it
didn't change the side effectsof the medication, but at least
(09:26):
I understood what was happening.
So as I transitioned onto aketogenic diet, it was It's
almost instantaneous, my seizurewithdrawal.
I would say less than a week,once I was in ketosis, I stopped
having seizures.
And I did not have anotherseizure for 49 days.
(09:47):
And on the day that I did, itwasn't even a full blown
seizure, it was an aura.
On that day, it was the daybefore my period started, so I
knew, okay.
I'm going to be on a very strictketogenic diet, but I still have
to be even more cautious rightbefore my period's coming or
(10:10):
right at the time of ovulation.
So if I were going to have aslightly higher carb day, it was
not going to be right before myperiod arrived.
So very quickly You know, ketoliterally saved me.
It literally saved me.
And there were some spinoff sideeffects for me as well, which we
can get into a little bit later.
(10:31):
Wow.
You know, even if I heard thatstory already, I am just in awe
of, you know, once you've toldthat story here today.
And just to recap, you hadstopped your medication at 18
years old and for 30 years youdidn't had one seizure and it
(10:52):
came back you were put onmedications again and which
caused this Rollercoaster ofemotions for you and not just
you your family as well foundketo and made some tweaking you
you Made your own observationand, you know, even went into a
more stricter keto.
And once you made thatadjustment, you since then off
(11:15):
medications, no more seizures.
And how do we explain that?
And alternative to that ismedications, which, yeah, go
ahead.
And I think it's important foryour listeners to understand
that, you know, medications canbe, can be really effective.
And for some people they workvery well.
And for some people, even ifthey apply a ketogenic diet,
(11:39):
They may still requiremedications, but it may not be
as many or it may not be as ahigher dosage so they can reduce
the side effects, some of whichare pretty horrible for, you
know, for antiepilepticmedication.
But the, you know, the biggestpiece for me was when I went to
my neurologist and I said, Hey,I'm going to try this.
He laughed at me.
He said, No, that only works forkids.
(12:01):
But it doesn't only work forkids.
It absolutely does work foradults.
And there are a group of us forwhom it works really, really
well.
And then there's another subsetfor whom it works a little bit
better, but not, it's nevergoing to completely eradicate
the need for medication.
And then for some forms ofepilepsy, it's not really going
(12:22):
to work at all.
And medication, you know, is, isgoing to be somebody's only
option.
But what I learned through thisprocess is that keto is, you
know, is a big buzzword rightnow.
Everybody's using the term keto,but I bet you that if we polled
a hundred of your listeners andasked them what keto means to
(12:43):
them, it's going to be a hundreddifferent answers because
there's just so much.
variation in, you know, in the,first of all, in the macros, and
then in what is actuallycontributing to those macros.
Are we talking about dirty ketoor clean keto or what?
So I do think it's reallyimportant that going forward,
(13:05):
You know, you guys know thatwhen I'm talking about a
ketogenic diet, I'm talkingabout a therapeutic ketogenic
diet where a person is inketosis 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year.
And that is not appropriate forthe vast majority of people.
(13:26):
Okay, it is very appropriate ifyou have epilepsy or if you have
a brain tumor or if you havelipedema, but if you are a
normal person who is trying toimprove their metabolism and
their metabolic health, then wecan talk about.
You know carbs in the range of20 to 50 total a day So when we
(13:49):
talk about a low carb diet,we're talking about under a
hundred grams of totalcarbohydrates a day Don't talk
to me about net.
Net does not exist.
Net is not a good thing when weare talking about therapeutic
keto in terms of A very low carbdiet, we're talking under 50 and
a ketogenic diet is usuallyunder 20 total grams a day and
(14:12):
that is not where the vastmajority of people who say
they're on a ketogenic diet are.
So I just really want to makethat clear that most people
don't have to go as hardcore asI do, but some people do and a
lot of people who try and thensay, well, it's not working for
me might be because.
(14:32):
They're applying net carbsinstead of total carbs, and they
actually are probably closer to80 or 90, you know, total carbs,
and that's just not a rangethat's gonna have, you know, the
sort of neurological, you know,outcome that you're looking for.
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Yeah, it's great to point outthat, you know, there are a lot
of, like you said, variations ofketo.
(15:58):
And there's a lot ofinterpretations about what a
keto diet is.
Obviously, you know, when wetalk about therapeutic effects
of the ketogenic diet, we weretalking about a well formulated
keto diet.
I want to also, you know,comment on, you know, keto for
children, because you know.
(16:18):
In the 60s, I think, or the 70s,the children were born with
epilepsy who were, I think, drugresistant.
They put them on this high fat,low carb diet.
They haven't coined it keto yet.
And they had huge success inthat.
So, I'm not sure why it'scomplicated for adults as I
(16:38):
don't get that.
How they, how it was good forchildren and not for adults.
And, in your experience, youhaven't had any seizures since.
No, I'm, I'm eight years seizurefree now.
And I think, you know, the, thekey piece to that though, is
that even in those days whenthey were doing this diet, there
was an awful lot of manipulationin order to get enough calories
(17:02):
because these kids would loseweight and they would lose a lot
of it.
And you don't want that whenyou've got a baby that's trying
to grow and especially a babywho, you know, is.
Born neurologically reallyimmature.
Like most people don't realizethat human infants come out only
25 percent hardwired.
That's it.
That hardwiring takes place inthe first two years of life
(17:24):
outside of the womb.
So you really want to make surethat that kiddo has all the
building blocks required to growtheir brain appropriately and
their body appropriately.
And what I'm finding a littledistressing about, you know, a
lot of the sort of social mediaout there is that 90 percent of
it is desserts, which is notreally helpful for anybody who
(17:46):
is trying to base theirnutritional value.
And I think that, that reallywhat we need to bring the lens
back to a little bit is thatwhen we're making these changes,
the goal here is to have ahealthier lifestyle.
So the goal should always be tohave the most nutritionally
dense diet you can possibly havegiven whatever restrictions you
(18:09):
have to have for your.
You know, your mental health,your, your neurological health.
I can't have three big salads aday, even if I wanted them.
I couldn't do it because I justcan't have those kind of carbs.
But I make sure that what goesinto me is the highest
nutritional And I do eat ketosweets.
(18:32):
Yes, I do.
If you look at my Instagram,there will be a few little
things there, but they're rareand, and they're really for
special days like birthdays orcelebrations.
And I really focus hard on, ontrying to make sure that I give
my body the best.
best nutrition for optimalenzymatic function, metabolic
function that I possibly can.
(18:54):
And so, you know, kudos toeverybody out there who wants to
strengthen their own system andget, you know, healthier and
keto is a great way to do that.
But I do want to underscore thatmost people can get by on, you
know, under a hundred grams aday and do very well unless they
are metabolically reallydysregulated and then they
(19:15):
really need to get down under 50grams.
And that's a great opportunityto start building some
intermittent fasting into thereas well.
And I don't mean.
time restricted feeding becausethat's a little different but
like actual fasts that arelonger than 24 hours.
Great way to spend some time inketosis but also spend some time
(19:36):
out because if you're a dualfuel burner and you are not
metabolically broken, And thenstay a dual fuel burner, but
just make sure that when you arenot in ketosis, you're not in
ketosis because you ate healthystuff, not because you decided
it was time to head over to thedonut store and, you know, have
(19:56):
your cheat day.
I want you to take this back.
I think this is important forpeople who maybe just found
keto, you know, for it, maybehave they have the, uh, The same
condition like you did, whatmade it easy for you to make a
decision?
I could imagine it wasn't thathard for you to make that
(20:17):
decision to switch to keto.
Once you've discovered it, youknow what?
It might surprise you, but itreally was.
And it was hard because it washard to sustain back in those
days.
There, there was nothing with astamp on it that said keto.
And by the way, If it says ketoon the package, it does not mean
that it is going to keep you inketosis.
(20:38):
I just really want to be clearabout that.
You can absolutely be in ketosiseating carbs if you are in a
state of calorie restriction.
It is not necessarily about whatyour, you know, the, The, the,
the food set that says ketodoesn't necessarily mean it's
going to keep you in ketosis.
And a lot of the stuff out therenow that I see branded as keto
(21:00):
is garbage.
And, and there's no way I wouldbring it near me.
I've tested some of those foodswith a, you know, beta
hydroxybutyrate monitor beforeand after, and it blows out my
ketones.
So no, I, I really think it'simportant that people get That,
you know, the food that you eatshould be mostly made at home.
(21:21):
And when I started, there wasnothing.
Like I couldn't even find almondflour, you know, half the time.
And there were no carbonatebread substitutes that were
roughly, you know, that wereokay and didn't have a big boost
of blood sugar.
There was nothing like that evenin existence.
So, it was hard and every time Iwent to a meeting at work and
(21:42):
everybody had all the junk foodout there, that was hard.
My husband cooked for me for thefirst eight months.
He did everything.
He made all of my foods.
He made me little safe ketosnacks that I could have without
destroying my, my, my ketonelevels.
He did everything to help me onboard.
So my environment at home wasreally supportive and my kids
(22:07):
For the most part, we'resupportive, I'll be honest, you
know, they were teenagers.
They were like, what?
We can't have any junk in thehouse?
I'm like, nope, sorry, you can'thave any carbs in the house, let
alone junk.
You want bread?
You go get it at grandma'shouse.
That's, that's sort of the, the,the, the environment that we had
and that helped.
And if you don't have that, ifyou don't have a partner or the
(22:29):
people around you who arewilling to be supportive, it is
so much harder.
Because even when I couldclearly see.
I just want to tell you thatthis was stopping my seizures.
It was still a struggle.
I'd say it took me four yearsbefore I stopped craving bread,
like four years.
And now I don't crave bread atall.
It's not not at all on my radar.
(22:50):
I miss wine, but you know, Ievery once in a while I'll have
a glass of very low carb wine,but Generally speaking, I avoid
alcohol because again, alcoholis very high up there, you know,
in what gets metabolized first.
So if you really need to be inketosis, you can't be drinking
(23:10):
alcohol, period.
There is no good wine.
There is no good beer.
There is no good, you know,single malt scotch.
There's lots of good single maltscotch, but there's none that's
really going to be acceptableBecause, you know, it just, in
terms of, of what gets burntfirst, alcohol gets burnt first
because you can't store itanywhere except your liver.
So it is, you know, it is offthe list if you're on a
(23:34):
therapeutic ketogenic diet.
If you're just on a gettinghealthier ketogenic diet, then
sure, in moderation, recognizingthat, you know, alcohol first,
right?
So it's, it's important to, tominimize that if your goal is,
you know, to not have seizures.
Cheers.
I love that your, your pointwith having that, my wife is
(23:57):
here, she supported me when Iwas, you know, in my deepest
depression and she was there andwithout her, you know, on my,
you know, I was recentlyinterviewed on another show and
I told her, I told them thatwithout my wife, she saved my
life and it was, it was not thesame like your story, but you
(24:21):
know, you need great support tobe able to, um, You know,
sustain this diet because it's,it is hard.
Nobody's saying it's easy.
It is.
It can be a simple change.
You know, it's, it's, we can'tsay it's easy.
We are trying to break habitshere.
Um, I wanna, you said there's awrong way of doing this and you,
(24:50):
you mentioned alcohol.
What are the other, do yourecall anything else?
If, if there's anything that youwould have done differently back
then, knowing what you alreadyknow now, is there anything that
you've cleaned up?
Really helped me the most backthen was that I really took
control of.
(25:11):
Charting everything.
So I had a really good app, Iuse Chronometer, big shout out
to Chronometer, fabulous app.
And I put everything in there.
I weighed and measuredeverything.
I did not guess.
I did not cheat.
I took my ketones with a bloodstick every single morning and
my blood sugar every singlemorning.
And even though I wasn'tdiabetic.
(25:34):
I was pre diabetic back then.
My doctor hadn't even told methat.
I looked at my blood workretroactively and said that's
way too high.
So, you know, I didn't, I didn'trealize it at the time, but you
know now not a problem.
But back then certainly was abit of an issue.
So I charted everything.
And so if I had a day where mybrain wasn't feeling really
(25:54):
good, I looked at what I ate theday before and I wondered, did I
overdo something or maybesomething I'm a bit sensitive
to?
So for me, that charting reallyallowed me to clearly see Where
I was making gains and where Iwas not and not a lot of people
do that They may chart loosely,but they don't chart by weighing
(26:16):
and measuring everything whichis onerous.
I won't lie It's like it's timeconsuming and sometimes it can
be a bit OCD and if peoplestruggle from you know Eating
disorders or or OCD in generalit can be a bit of a trigger so
I just want to you know, I justwant to say that that is
absolutely a thing and and Youknow, shout out to, to the folks
(26:36):
who are really battling withthat.
And we don't want to starttriggering eating disorders with
weighing and measuring.
But again, if you're dealingwith therapeutic keto, you have
to, you don't get into atherapeutic level.
And unless you are today, it'sactually in some ways it's
easier because there's a bitmore access to the sort of stuff
(26:56):
that we need to, you know, stillenjoy life like erythritol, but.
There's so much out there that'slabeled keto and people think,
Oh, if I just buy that, that'sgoing to keep me in ketosis.
No, it's not.
When I do, you know, sessions inthe community and I have 30
people show up, I'll test themall.
Guess how many in a group of 30actually have ketones?
(27:19):
Like I'm talking any ketones,not just therapeutic levels of
ketones.
It's less than 5%.
So it's important to understandthat it's about ketones.
You know, it is about calorieintake in the sense that, you
know, 5, 000 calories is goingto knock you out of ketosis.
Especially if you're eatingstuff that is labeled, you know,
(27:42):
ketogenic that really maybeisn't.
If you start looking at theingredients, you can start to
see a lot of things that aremaybe not so healthy.
So I guess what it all comesdown to is every Every aspect of
your health starts with realfood.
So if the, the guiding light inyour dietary choices, whatever
(28:04):
they are, is real food, then youare already on a really good
path.
If you augment that with theoccasional yumminess from
somebody's awesome, you know,YouTube channel or whatever,
that's okay.
But if you're basically livingon, you know, keto fat bombs or
on, you know, mug cakes andthat's your, that's your diet,
(28:28):
that is not going to contributeto your overall global health.
It just isn't.
So start with real food.
Augment where you need to, butbe really suspect when something
says keto.
It's like looking at a thing ofbroccoli and there's a plant
based and a keto stamp on it.
What?
(28:49):
It's broccoli.
You know, that, that, that isjust all about pitching to you
and selling to you as aconsumer.
And I think it's important thatwe just.
We're a little bit suspect whenpeople are trying to pitch stuff
to us and that we read theingredients.
That's, that's really, I thinkgot to be my biggest message.
So I think.
(29:10):
Also, an important piece that weneed to highlight here is, um,
you were, since we started ketogoing back to when, you know,
beginning of the keto diet foryou, you were still getting
auras, like you said, and so itdidn't completely get away from
you and did, and you did mentionthat, you know, I think it is
(29:34):
important because for anyone whois listening here, um, Can you
go through some of the factorsthat may still cause aura and
changes have you made in yourdiet to completely get rid of
them?
So I haven't had any auras sincethat first couple of months on
keto.
That, that, that breakthroughaura I had was definitely
(29:55):
contributed, you know, byhormones.
So, what I started doingdifferently was right before my
period was due, I would makesure 100 percent that I was at
like the 10 gram of carbs a day,which is basically the carbs
that comes from your eggs, youknow, and, and like maybe two
tablespoons of whipping cream.
(30:15):
That's it.
So it's, it's not a lot.
I have not had an aura sincethat.
I do have other issues that I,you know, I have to be careful
around.
So I suffer from somethingcalled lipedema, which is a rare
fat disorder where I havereally, really little waist and
really big hips.
(30:37):
And lipedema is It's widelyunderstood to not respond to any
dietary changes.
You could be eating 600 caloriesa day for a month, your lipedema
would not be affected.
You'd lose weight, but it wouldall be from your face and your
chest and other parts of yourbody that are not affected by
this, you know, this, this typeof fat that is, is broken.
(30:59):
The cells are just so huge.
There's not a lot of goodintercellular and extracellular
communication happening anymore.
So they don't respond tohormones in the way, you know,
like they don't respond toinsulin and in the same way as
other fat cells do.
So what I found is that all of asudden with keto, I could lose
weight.
I tried to lose weight for 20years.
(31:21):
And with keto, boom, I lost ahundred pounds.
I did not lose a hundred poundsin a year like a lot of people
do because I have lipedema.
It took me about two and a halfyears to lose those hundred
pounds and, and I've been ableto, by and large, keep them off.
However, I am eight years olderthan I was when I started and
that means that I'm, skirtingwith that lovely little phase of
(31:44):
women's lives called menopause.
And I'm almost there.
And I'm noticing because I don'tget hungry because I don't
actually eat a lot of caloriesbecause I'm not hungry, I'm
starting to gain more lipidemafat in my thighs.
And I looked at this a couple ofmonths ago and I said, okay,
time to do some, you know, timeto do a reality check.
(32:06):
You know, how many actual carbsam I taking in?
Where are those carbs comingfrom?
Do I need to be eating moreprotein now?
So I started doing a little bitof experimenting, you know,
three weeks doing one thing,three weeks doing something
else.
And what I'm realizing is thatfor me at this stage in my life.
I have to prioritize a minimumof 80 grams of protein a day,
(32:30):
minimum, and preferably a littlecloser to 120.
And I have to make sure that I'mnot ever cheating.
And cheating for me is eatingthe occasional bite of sweet
potato, so I can't do thatanymore.
So I think what's also importantis that people realize that your
(32:51):
keto and my keto is not going tobe the same.
If you're a man, it's not thesame as if you're a woman.
If you're 20, it's not the sameas if you're 50.
If you were breastfed, it is notthe same as if you were not
breastfed.
There are nuances that reallyimpact what you need to do to
(33:11):
move the lever on your ownpersonal health goals, and they
are not generic, so everybody isnot going to be able to do the
same thing and get the sameresults.
We are individuals, we responddifferently, our environments
impact us differently, we havedifferent epigenetic
programming.
(33:31):
So we do need to.
Be able to tweak appropriatelyto get the results we want.
Yeah, we, we do have differenttriggers and our bodies respond
to keto differently.
And you mentioned that you.
Lost a hundred pounds in two anda half years, which, you know,
(33:53):
on a strict keto diet, you know,to some, to somebody that's
probably way too long to losethat much to lose a hundred in
two and a half years.
And you've been so consistentwith this.
I want to, I want to talk to youabout another point that I think
we need to highlight is you,you, how did you taper off your
(34:14):
meds or did you went cold Turkeywith it when you started keto?
Great question, Lawrence.
Thank you for asking that.
No, I, this time, because Iwasn't 18, I went under medical
supervision.
We cut back my Keppra.
Once we realized I wasn't havingseizures at all, we dropped it
(34:34):
back quite quickly.
I was at the maximum dose, so wecut it in half.
And then we cut it back in halfagain within the second month,
and then I asked my physician ifI could come off it entirely,
and he was not comfortable withthat.
So he said, no, you're going togo and do blood work.
And now we're going to scale youback over the next six months.
(34:56):
So he made me take almost eightmonths to get off the medication
when I would have been reallyhappy doing it in three.
But he said, no, we're, we'regoing to do the blood work.
And when we did the blood work,there was no measurable amount
of the medication in mybloodstream anymore.
And that's when he said, okay,now we're going to cut you back
(35:17):
to the lowest dose for a month.
Just to make sure because hedidn't want me to lose my
license again He didn't want meto lose, you know, all of all of
the stuff that I've been able toget back So I was very grateful
to him for that supervision Andso it did take about eight
months to come completely offthe meds and the funny thing is
before I started keto Um, I Iwas taking the equivalent of
(35:43):
about 1, 800 a month inmedication.
Now, for your US audience,they'll relate to that.
In Canada, we have most of thatcovered.
So, it wasn't costing meanything, but it was costing all
the taxpayers of my country.
1, 800 a month.
When I started keto, I stopped.
all medicine.
I didn't need medicine to sleepanymore, for pain anymore, for
(36:07):
anything anymore.
I didn't even need to take, youknow, the occasional Advil
maybe, but that's it.
So I went from 1, 800 a month ofmeds to zero for the last eight
years.
I want to, you know, get to helpsomebody approach their doctor
because, you know, it can be, itcan be a hard thing to do once
(36:28):
you decide to.
Switch your diet and get off themeds completely.
How do we best prepare ourselveswhen we approach our doctor
about this?
Because I understand that someof the doctors are not, don't
highly recommend it, you know,getting off the meds first of
all, and.
You know, changing your diet torely on that completely.
(36:49):
What, to that, what do you say?
Well, first and foremost, it'simportant that everybody
understands that they have theright to informed decision
making.
And that means that yourhealthcare provider is there to
provide you with information sothat you can make an informed
decision about your care, but itis your decision.
(37:11):
It is not anyone else's decisionexcept yours.
So get your healthcare provider.
on side by being reasonable bysaying, This is something I want
to explore.
I don't want to be dumb aboutit.
I don't want to be, it's unsafeabout it.
So let's do some baseline bloodwork, and then I'm going to show
(37:31):
you what my plan is, and thenwe'll do blood work again in
three months, and we'll see howthat's going.
And I'm not, I'm not justtalking for epilepsy, I'm
talking about for diabetes, oryou know, whatever, whatever
your issue is that you'replanning to approach with a
ketogenic diet.
So Because some people are notgood candidates for keto.
And, and that, that is onlygoing to be found out if you're
(37:52):
doing the blood work.
And if you, you know, have ahistory of, you know, family
hyperlipidemia, this is not thediet for you.
I'm happy to say it's a verysmall minority.
But it is, you know, it is onlythose few people who have, you
know, familialhypercholesterolemia and those
kinds of things that who reallyhave to watch out.
(38:13):
You'll know if you're doing theblood work.
You'll see everything get betterif you're doing the blood work.
And if it's not, then you can dosome little tweaking, some
little modifications to seewhether you do need to add a few
more carbs.
And that's okay, but by a few Istill mean under a hundred.
And good carbs, like, you know,salad, sweet potatoes,
(38:34):
vegetables.
But I do think that thisdialogue can be entered into
when there is a collaboration.
And, and I'm hoping thatEveryone out there has a
physician who is collaborativewith them.
And if you say, I want to dothis, I want to do it with your
support, so you tell me what youneed to feel comfortable, that
(38:55):
I'm not, you know, going to doanything crazy.
We're going to talk about ittogether, create a plan
together, do the blood work,assess it again in three to six
months, and then make anychanges that need to happen.
Most of the time, your physicianwill be blown away by how much
improved your blood markers are,And by blood markers, I mean
fasting insulin, you know, yourHbA1c, blood glucose, iron
(39:19):
level, cholesterol for the largepart does actually get better.
Mine certainly got a lot better.
So, but there will be somepeople who it doesn't and then
that's a different discussion.
But if you're in thatconversation with your care
provider, it's going to go somuch better for everybody.
So just really seeking outinformation and, and really
trying to have thatcollaborative approach I think
(39:42):
is, is going to be a winner ninetimes out of 10.
I love that answer.
And I think also having a coach,having somebody to keep you
accountable again, because thisis not an easy change.
There's a lot of unlearning todo.
And there's a lot of educationbecause you have to know how it
works.
You have to know why keto worksand how it works and how to fuel
(40:03):
your body before you couldactually, you know, get yourself
going.
And Most of this is mental, whatneeds to happen in, in your
brain, you have to change your,you should have to shift that
mindset into, you know, actuallytaking action, building habits,
but, you know, easier said thandone because there's a process
(40:24):
to breaking those habits.
And for you, you had all thereason to make a change, but
it's, it was still hard for youand because that's a testament
that how hard it is to make thatchange, you know, obviously.
This is something that is veryuncommon.
Right.
And you're basically goingagainst the grain.
(40:47):
And for me, having a coach is soimportant in the beginning.
And if you're somebody thatcan't do this by yourself, know
that there's an option there foryou.
I want to know, Jillian, do youstill coach people today?
Yeah, I do.
Especially people who arelooking therapeutically because
(41:07):
there's so many little I do.
Ways to get derailed from thatand so, you know, I can really
help people get into a placewhere they understand what is
you know, what is going to workfor them and that they How not
to get derailed by by all thestuff that says it's keto I hear
that a lot, but it said it wasketo and now I'm you know My
(41:30):
ketones are blown and that'sanother thing to just kind of
put out there that But peopleare measuring ketones and sort
of chasing ketones and that'snot appropriate either.
Ketone measurement is a tool tohelp you figure, basically
biohack yourself.
But in the early days, if you'rejust testing with acetone
strips, peeing on them, I rarelytest positive with acetone tests
(41:56):
now because I've been doing thisfor eight years.
I've been in ketosis for eightyears.
I check my beta hydroxybutyrateevery single morning.
And that is when it will be thelowest in the day for me and I
check especially when I'mworking out I will check pre and
post workout because I'm using alot of ketones during my workout
(42:17):
So it's a it's a threat areaIt's an area where anyone who's
got a seizure has to be a bitcareful and I'm generally not a
big fan of I'm a big fan ofexogenous ketones for people
with epilepsy, especiallychildren.
If they are doing a lot ofactivity and they're on a
ketogenic diet, I've had parentscall me and say, but you know,
(42:37):
Jill, my son after his firstsoccer game is fine and he
always has a seizure after thesecond soccer game.
Yep.
Cause he's blowing through hisketones.
He's using them all for energyand that is actually causing his
brain to not have the level itrequires to remain seizure free.
So that parent.
started implementing a ketonesupplement right before the
(42:59):
second soccer game.
And lo and behold, no moreseizures because we needed to
bring that up artificially forthat, you know, hour or two that
he was playing soccer, afterwhich his body gets back into
its normal state.
So ketones, but they do have arole to play and their main role
(43:20):
to play is to help the is in atherapeutic application with
things like epilepsy,Parkinson's disease, you know,
those kinds of, those kinds ofissues.
Definitely not for anyone whowants to lose fat because Why
would you want to drink ketones?
You want to be making them?
Because making them means you'reburning fat.
(43:40):
So I do think that it isimportant that, you know, people
don't sort of misunderstand thepower of ketones.
The real power of ketones is theones you make yourself.
That's the real power.
From a therapeutic perspective,exogenous ketones have a very
important role to play and theywill, you will see more of that
(44:01):
in the science and just look atthe work that Don D'Agostino has
done over the last 10 years.
So I really think that they dohave a role, but it's mainly in
a therapeutic role, not as anutritional adjunct.
I think that, you know, thosewho are really trying to improve
their health.
Need to actually do the work andthat means not second back, you
(44:22):
know, a ton of betahydroxybutyrate salts that, you
know, don't taste very good andartificially increase your
ketone levels.
You know, some people are very,also very hard on themselves
too, because I understand thatfor me, I've been, you know, on
the Keto diet for, you know, notlong, three years now, but I
(44:43):
still do crave.
I still have those times.
And this is something that's apractice that you have to do
every single day.
You have to consciously.
Decide for yourself and what'sgood for you.
And what's the alternativereally for me?
The alternative is, you know,eating junk and being depressed.
(45:04):
So no, thank you.
So that's what keeps meconsistent on this diet.
And if you don't link eatingthis way to feeling good, you
won't make that connection.
You have to.
Link feeling good to eating awell formed keto diet or, you
know, some food that's, that'snourishing for you because if
(45:27):
you don't link it, then you'renot going to be, you're not
gonna credit.
eating well.
So you're always going to belooking for those cravings.
It's never going to be worth itfor you.
Yeah.
So did we miss anything Jillianhere?
I don't want to miss anything.
Jillian I think to sort of carryon from what you were just
(45:48):
saying there, Lawrence, I think,I think you're right.
It's got to be, it's got to comefrom within.
You've got to want it for you.
And you do have to link back tothat feeling of wellness.
However, I will say that we allin North America live in a food
obsessed society where we haveaccess to so much junk all the
(46:09):
time that it is really, reallyhard.
So you can pick the days.
You can say my birthday everyyear.
I'm gonna eat all the thingsthat I want to eat.
I used to love Nutella.
Like, if you'd put a plate ofNutella in front of me, or just
like a bucket of it, I would goto town on that.
Like, you would not believe.
I'd eat the whole thing.
(46:31):
I don't think I could even eatlike a teaspoon of it now.
It is so sweet and my palate haschanged so much in eight years
that biting into a strawberryblows my mind.
Like that is like, Oh my God,it's orgasmic.
It tastes so good because I havea much lower sweet perception.
(46:54):
So one of the tips I might giveyour listeners is to You're all
going to make keto sweets.
We all do it.
You're, you're going to find theperfect cinnamon bun recipe and
you're going to make thatrecipe.
I know it.
You're all going to do it.
But if you start by dropping therequired erythritol in that
recipe by a third, and in a fewmonths you drop it down to a
(47:15):
half, what you will end up doingis Still getting what you want.
Your brain will not be quite socravey about it and you won't
want to eat three.
You'll just, you'll be veryhappy with just one.
And, if, you know, we're dissingon all the folks that are eating
ten pounds of sugar every yearand What are we doing?
(47:39):
We're just substituting it for10 pounds of erythritol.
That means we haven't addressedthe core problem, which is that
we have a problem with sweetstuff.
Our brains are programmed tolike it, and we have a hard time
letting it go.
So do yourselves a favor.
Any recipes that you'redownloading.
automatically cut back thesweetener by a minimum of a
(48:02):
third and then retest.
And I remember I was actually atKetoCon probably two years ago.
I guess it was right before thepandemic.
That was the last time I wasable to get down there.
And I was talking to a lot ofthe people who were, you know,
offering up stuff, you know,stuff, just cookies and cakes
and all the stuff that they havethere.
And, and I, I went to one.
(48:22):
Place and they were offeringthis Frappuccino that was meant
to compete with the StarbucksFrappuccino and I had a taste of
it and I had to spit it out andI said, Oh my God, that is so
sweet.
Can you not tone down that abit?
Because the people here are noteating nearly as much sugar and
they're going to have a lowerthreshold for sweet.
(48:42):
And the guy said to me, but I'mcompeting in the market with
Starbucks Frappuccino, so I haveto make it the same sweetness.
And I thought to myself, hetotally missed the point.
The person who wants to pick upthat Keto Frappuccino is trying
really hard to make their healthbetter.
So, why don't you help them dothat by tone it down, even if
(49:03):
it's just by a third.
So, you know, my news to, youknow, my, my, I guess my message
to all of the keto creators outthere for food is either you
need to have levels, you know,like beginner keto where the
sweetness is a lot higher and,you know, hardcore doing this
for eight years keto half asmuch sweetener.
(49:25):
I don't know how you got to doit, but I frequently don't buy
any of that stuff anymorebecause it's too sweet for me.
I'd rather make it myself andreduce the amount of sweetener
in the recipe.
I'm going to go online rightnow, download about 10 recipes
and change it to half of whattheir sweetener is and make it
my own.
(49:45):
Put it in a book.
What's your favorite food,Lawrence?
What's your, what's your go to,what's your go to gravy food?
Ah, it's the burger without thebuns, lettuce wraps from
Wendy's.
No, no ketchup.
Just, uh, just the lettuce wrapfor me.
I I'm a burger guy before I loveburgers, but, but for me, I I've
(50:09):
enjoyed lettuce wrap ever sinceI started keto.
So it's for me, Maria Emmerich.
I'm not, I'm not sure familiar.
Maria Emmerich said that onceyou, once you, once you.
Change your mindset from, Ican't have that to, I don't want
that.
Then that's when you know,you're turning the corner.
(50:31):
So that that's stuck with me.
And to this day, when I go tothe grocery store, to the
aisles, I don't want it anymore.
It used to be, I can't have thatnow.
I don't want it.
I don't have that same, youknow, cravings for those items
anymore.
It's not worth it for me, man.
So I used to struggle with that.
(50:53):
Like just seeing it is.
Well, when Maria and I did theKeto Cruise together, and I
gotta throw this recipe in forMaria because it's a great, it's
a great recipe.
When Maria and I were on theKeto Cruise together a couple of
years ago, and we were, we werejust hanging out and I was
telling her that the first timeI ever tried her chocolate egg
(51:13):
pudding, which is literally madewith hard boiled eggs, I, I was
like, Maria, this can't be athing.
Like, honestly, I don't buy it.
I do not believe that you canmake chocolate pudding taste
good made out of boiled eggs.
And so I sent her a message andI said, I'm going to try it, but
I'm only going to make half therecipe.
Cause like, I just, I can't, Ican't see it.
And oh my gosh, it was so good.
(51:35):
And so now it's like a go to forme, and it's delicious.
And when I want chocolatepudding, I just make Maria's egg
pudding, which is delicious.
It hits the spot.
I feel like it is all wholefoods, and it has even, you
know, lower sweetener than evenshe recommends.
And she's actually pretty goodabout not making the sweetness
(51:56):
level insanely high in herrecipes.
But try it.
Just, you know, try modifyingjust a little bit and, and it's
okay to have the things that youlove.
Find the things you crave and,you know, make them a little bit
healthier.
I won't say make them more ketobecause there's really no such
thing as a ketogenic food.
It is either food that keeps youin ketosis or food that kicks
(52:19):
you out.
But that doesn't mean by itselfit is a ketogenic food.
So I think it's important thatwe, that we, Use that language
as well, and just remember thatall the decisions that we make
are about how we want to feel,you know, six hours from now,
tomorrow.
So you, you are obviously doingan amazing job on your own
journey, and kudos to you,because it isn't easy.
(52:41):
And there are people around whowant to derail us, and, and
just, I think that, Being aneducator as we are is actually a
really helpful way of helpingkeep us ourselves on track,
right?
And keeping ourselvesaccountable because it also
means that, that we can sharewhen people are saying, Hey,
come on, Joe, why don't you justhave this one little piece of
(53:01):
chocolate I'll say, cause Idon't want to be able to educate
them about why it is.
I love it.
Jillian.
I enjoyed this conversation somuch.
And not just because of whatyou're sharing here about your
story.
You're, you're definitelychanging lives out here.
But also how you approach thingsis, is so different from like
(53:23):
other people that I've talked toand you have, you, you have this
passion that I feel that energythat you have, that's, you know,
just wanting to help others outthere to do this the right way.
And so I, I really commend youon that.
And congratulations for, youknow, not having seizures for
(53:44):
eight years.
That's amazing.
And, uh, If that's not, ifthat's not, you know, evidence
of keto working for, for, peoplefor your condition.
I don't know what it is.
Thank you so much once again forsharing your story here today,
Jillian.
I appreciate it.
Where can people find you,Jillian?
You can find me on Instagram.
I'm on Instagram, and I guessyou can just sort of attach this
(54:06):
all to the podcast so people canfind it, but I'm keto.
for, spelled out, F O R, dotlife on Instagram, and
ketoalldayeveryday.
com.
And, and they can, they canemail me at keto all day, every
day at gmail.
com.
I'm going to definitely going tolink everything in the
description below guys.
So definitely check out Jillianagain.
(54:27):
Thank you so much, Jillian, forsharing your story and we'll
talk to you soon.
Thanks so much, Lawrence, keepdoing what you do.
Bye bye.
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