Remastered Episode: The Carnivore Diet Explained by Dr. Anthony Chaffee

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In this episode of the Ketones and Coffee podcast, host Lawrence welcomes Dr. Anthony Chaffee, a medical doctor focusing on neurosurgery, former professional rugby player, and host of the Plant Free MD podcast. Dr. Chaffee shares his journey from discovering the negative effects of plant-based foods to adopting and advocating for a carnivore diet. 

He discusses the misconceptions about dietary fat and cholesterol, the detrimental effects of carbohydrates and plant toxins, and the benefits of a meat-centric diet on chronic diseases and overall health.

Dr. Chaffee also addresses common concerns about the carnivore diet, such as fiber intake and the process of adapting to a carnivore lifestyle, emphasizing the importance of education, understanding, and a commitment to change for achieving peak health.

00:00 Welcome to the Ketones and Coffee Podcast!

00:28 Introducing Dr. Anthony Chaffee: From Rugby to Carnivore Diet Advocacy

01:06 The Uncommon Path: A Doctor's Journey into Nutrition and Lifestyle Medicine

04:54 The Carnivore Diet: A Doctor's Personal and Professional Journey

05:10 The Turning Point: Discovering the Carnivore Diet

10:00 The Impact of Diet on Professional Athletic Performance

15:30 Rediscovering Carnivore: A Doctor's Reawakening

25:44 The Science Behind Carnivore: Understanding Our Biological Needs

30:06 Exploring the Primary Metabolic State: Fasting vs. Fed

31:40 The Carnivore Diet: A Deep Dive into Benefits and Nutritional Insights

33:58 Addressing Common Misconceptions: Carbs, Sugar, and Diabetes

37:00 Historical and Scientific Perspectives on Diet and Disease

42:44 Carnivore Diet as a Lifestyle: Strategies for Success

49:11 Debunking Dietary Myths: The Truth About Fiber and Meat

54:17 Transitioning to Carnivore: Tips and Personal Insights

58:17 Connecting with Dr. Anthony Chafee: Resources and Future Projects

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey guys, this is Lawrence.

(00:01):
So welcome back to the ketonesand coffee podcast.
And thank you so much for tuningin.
I know everyone here that'slistening are here because you
want to create a sustainable,healthy lifestyle through the
ketogenic diet.
And every single week I try tobring in guests that not only
has the knowledge, but theseindividuals has also been
through the same trials that weall have been through when it

(00:21):
comes down to our search.
So For a better health, we gettogether in hopes to assist you
on your own journey.
So excited for this guys.
Our guest today is an Americanmedical doctor in his
neurosurgical residency and aformer professional rugby
player.
He's also the host of a podcastin the health and fitness world,
the Plant Free MD, where heshares his knowledge with others

(00:44):
on how to look and feel yourbest with a carnivore diet.
If you are well versed in thecarnivore space, you're likely
to have heard of him before.
Truly an honor.
I'm here with Dr.
Anthony Shafee.
Doc, welcome to the show, man.
Hey, thank you so much forhaving me.
Good to see you.
Awesome.
Awesome.
This is fantastic because I'mtruly honored to have you on and
share your story with us today.

(01:06):
I'd like to dive in here becauseit's, you know, for me, it's
really uncommon to hear doctors.
the lifestyle change side ofhealth and talking about
nutrition, talking about alifestyle intervention as
opposed to just opting for theconventional way to treat

(01:26):
conditions.
There are so many things I'dlike to talk to you about.
First of all, how, how you gotstarted.
But before that, I'd like tostart with the fact that you're
You know, a doctor and you'realso coaching people on how to
start the carnivore lifestyleand you turn to dietary changes
to help people reverse, youknow, chronic disease and all of

(01:48):
that.
Please tell me there are moredoctors like you out there.
Is there, is this the new schoolof doctors that's coming out of
schools today or?
No, I don't think so.
Unfortunately.
No, they're not, they're notteaching that stuff in medical
school at the moment.
But you know, there are peoplethat pay attention and I think
all doctors try to payattention.
You know, some will get You knoweither either young or old

(02:09):
doctors will get caught intothat.
Well, this is how we do thingsThis is the traditional way and
I learned this in medical schoolor in my residency and this is
the way i've done it So this isthe way it is and and of course
that's not that's not the casethings change all the time and
even even in you know, Just aparticular specialty.
You have to stay current.
You have to keep readingliterature.
You have to keep you know, youknow challenging the status quo

(02:32):
to see how you can do it betterAnd So there are people that,
that look at this or there arecertainly doctors have been
doing this for decades,actually, you know, and you
know, even, even since the, youknow, the 70s or beyond,
they've, they've been, they'venoticed this and recognize that
you eat certain things, you willget certain diseases and have
certain problems.
And so they've been, they'vebeen pushing this for a long

(02:54):
time.
But it is rare.
It's more rare than, than justtraditional side of medicine.
But I have noticed that, youknow, the other doctors that I
speak to about this, and, andthen it comes up with they're
very interested in it.
And, you know, so I think moreand more people are
incorporating this, or trying toincorporate it, or at least
being interested in it for theirown lives.

(03:16):
And then they, We'll thenrecommend it for their patients
as well.
And since starting this, I'vehad a number of clinicians reach
out to me or be introduced to methrough mutual friends and
they're doing exactly that.
They're in a neurosurgicalpractice or they're in a
vascular surgery practice.

(03:37):
But they also practicefunctional medicine and try to
get people better and keep thembetter and avoid surgery in the
first place or avoid you know,unnecessary medical treatments
in the first place, which is,it's so easy to do for a lot of
these things.
You just change your diet andand autoimmune issues just go
away.
Heart disease improves diabetes.

(03:57):
Improves either type one or typetwo.
So more people are starting tosee it and hopefully we can get
sort of a grassroots movementand, and get people more
involved and more interested andmake it, you know, an actual
part of medical school.
Yeah.
So why don't we inspire thoseyoung doctors today?
Maybe they'll come across thisthis recording and inspire them,

(04:20):
you know, By understanding whereyou come from, understanding how
you got here in the first placeand and maybe inspired the, the,
the new doctors coming into itthat this is also a way to heal
other people.
And in the society today,obviously, you know, we have an
epidemic going on with anobesity type two diabetes and

(04:43):
all sorts of you know, chronicillness out there.
But I understand that you'vebeen living this lifestyle ever
since you were in college.
And it started when you learnedthe negative effects of plants
when we consume them.
If you don't mind, take us backto that time.
I think it's truly important forour listeners to understand this
was a turning point for you.
I understand.
Because this is when you haddecided to only eat meat and

(05:05):
take us back to those eventsthat follow after that too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, no problem.
So I, at first, You know,radically changed my diet when I
was when I was around 20, I wasin can't taking cancer biology
at the University of Washingtonin Seattle.
And you know, we were, we werelearning about cancer and
different carcinogens and thingsthat cause cancer and
contributed to its you know, youknow, pathology.

(05:28):
We, we basically learned dayone.
about all the different plantsthat had a lot of carcinogens,
you know, and this was, this wasdue to the fact that, that
plants, you know, they, they areliving organisms, but they can't
run away or fight back like,like an animal can.
So in order to stay alive, inorder to flourish and prosper
and, and to generate, you know,to, to procreate generation

(05:50):
after generation, they have todefend themselves in other ways.
And one of those ways, one ofthe main ways is by actually
creating poisons and defensechemicals.
that will poison, harm, or evenkill the animals trying to eat
that trying to eat that plant.
So they can get, you know,quite, quite toxic results from
that.
And this, you know, this issomething actually that, that,

(06:11):
that we teach in, you know,obviously basic botany or
horticulture.
This is a, there's a very, verywell known established fact.
And, you know, You know, we've,we've isolated and identified
tens of thousands of differenttoxic chemicals that exist in
all plants.
And something that I learnedactually in seventh grade
biology, which was, you know,plants and animals are in an
evolutionary arms race.

(06:32):
Plants becoming more and morepoisonous.
So less and less animals can eatthem so they can survive and
thrive.
And then animals becoming moreadapted and resistant to
specific poisons in specificplants so that they can eat that
plant safely and break downthose harmful chemicals that
into safe byproducts and so theycan survive and thrive and then
they can eat that plant andother things can't.

(06:52):
So they don't have to competefor resources and and they can,
they can keep going.
We were learning this again incancer biology, but from a
cancer perspective.
So we were looking atcarcinogens and we learned that
brussels, and again, this is 20years ago, 20 some years ago.
They had already identified 136known human carcinogens just in
Brussels sprouts, over a hundredjust in mushrooms, like the

(07:15):
white mushrooms that we usecommonly and then given lists of
all the different vegetablesand, and and plants and plant
material that we eat.
So, each one had a number by it,and that was the number of
carcinogens that had beenidentified and there were 60,
80, or over a hundred.
known human carcinogens in eachone.
There wasn't a single one under60 that I saw, and they were

(07:35):
quite abundant.
We've known since the 1980s,1989, Professor Bruce Ames from
UC Berkeley published a papershowing that there were 10, 000
times more toxic chemicalsnaturally occurring in plants
than the pesticides we sprayedon them by weight.
And then naturally occurringtoxins were far more likely to

(07:57):
cause cancer than the pesticideswe sprayed on them.
So the, the, the pesticides,that's why pesticides are still
legal.
They're actually trying to cureit.
to ban them back in the 80s, andthey did ban some.
And then he, and then Bruce Amesdid you know, different research
and actually showed, like, well,actually, you know, it's a drop
in the bucket compared to thespinach.
You know, and so that's why westill have pesticides.

(08:18):
That's why we can still usethem.
And of course they're toxic, butthe plants are more toxic.
And that was, that was thepoint.
So, we were quite blown away bythis.
And, and I remember thinking hemust be joking, he must be, you
know, just screwing with us andlike looking around every, all
of us were just looking aroundwildly trying to see if there
was someone who's just sort oflike, you know, snickering or

(08:40):
something like that to, to, tolet, let us know that they were,
they were in on the joke.
No one was.
And.
It sort of dawned on us like,okay, this guy is serious.
And I remember thinking in myhead and I was like, but you
know, vegetables are still goodfor you though.
Right.
And he, you know, he must'vejust read our mind because he
looked at us all and just said,I don't eat salad.

(09:00):
I don't eat vegetables.
I don't let my kids eatvegetables.
Plants are trying to kill you.
So I was like, right, screwplants.
And I just stopped, you know,and it's just like, that really
hit home with me.
I don't know if it, if it didwith the other students in the
class, but for me, I was just, Iwas just determined never to eat
another plant.
And.

(09:21):
I went to the grocery store.
I was looking around likeeverything was plants.
Everything had plants in it.
Pasta, grains, obviouslyvegetables, fruits, and, and all
the different sort of ready mademeals.
They all had plants in them.
They all had some ingredientsthat were plants.
And so, you know, withoutknowing about whole food and
this and that or carnivore, Ijust naturally gravitated to

(09:41):
eggs, meat, and milk becausethose are the only things that
didn't have plants.
So that was my That was mylitmus test that like, does it
have plants in it?
And I was like, okay, you know,that's what I ate.
And so I just ate eggs, meat andmilk for five years.
And I was, you know, I was inuniversity and no problem.
You know, I never felt better inmy life ever.
And I was, you know, I wasplaying professional rugby and I

(10:03):
was, I could not get tired.
I could not run out of energyand I couldn't get sore.
Like I don't get sore fromworking out now.
That's the one thing that peoplereally get upset about the most.
They like, God, that can't be,you're a liar, all that sort of
stuff.
You know, because it's theinflammatory factors in plants
that make you feel sore.
Simple test.
Don't eat any plants or grainsfor two weeks.

(10:27):
Do a big workout.
Yeah, and then eat some, youknow, have a piece of toast and
you'll see, you'll see rightaway within about 20 minutes or
drink a couple coffee, you know,coffee.
A lot of people drink coffee andcarnivore keto, but I find that
it actually increasesinflammation significantly.
And so if I do like a big heavyworkout, I won't be sore.

(10:48):
But I'll drink one cup of blackcoffee.
I'm sure for two days, you know,so I noticed that that makes
that sort of difference.
And so people can test this ontheir own.
But yeah, so I didn't get sore.
I don't get sore now.
And my performance just wentthrough the roof and I was in
incredible shape.
I pushed myself so hard and thenI got more results from the,

(11:10):
the, the work that I put in.
So I just had exponential growthas compared to myself on a
normal diet and certainly ascompared to my teammates and I
unfortunately sort of slippedoff of that when I was playing
in England just because I didn'thave the same access to food and
some of the meat was breaded.
And, you know, I didn't think itwas that big of a deal if it was
breaded because it was just asmall amount, but it actually

(11:31):
made a big difference.
And I remember that, that was,that was the change over in from
feeling amazing all the time tothen having aches and pains and
nagging injuries.
And how long did that go for?
For when I was in England, orhow long ago when everything was
perfect?
When you're when you came backonto the carnivore diet, how

(11:52):
long did that last when yourealized, okay the carnivore
diet was the Did you link Yeah.
Eating meat only to feeling thatgreat at that time.
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Yeah, no, so that's the thing,no I didn't.
I didn't, I, I, I stoppeddrinking at the same time, like
during the rugby season.
So maybe I'd have like, youknow, some you know, drinks or
something like that after theseason.
But even then I would only drinklike once a year.
And I, you know, I remembersitting, sitting on the couch

(13:20):
once and I remember thinking tomyself, like, why don't I feel
it's just absolutelyunbelievably amazing as I
normally do.
I thought I was like, well, am Ijust not working out as hard?
Am I not pushing myself?
You know, I was 25.
So I was like, is that it?
Am I over the hump?
Is this just downhill from here?
Health wise, you know, becausecertainly when I was younger, I
thought that was probably thecase, you know, like my
teammates are 25, you know,thinking about something like

(13:41):
Jesus, you're dying.
But you know, there I was 25 andthinking like, well, maybe
that's it.
Maybe I'm just, you know, mybody's just breaking down now.
Of course, it's not true.
You know, we're, we're designedto live 120 years.
So you can be in peak physicalhealth well into your fifties or
even sixties, because 60 ismiddle age.
Really?
Yeah.

(14:01):
You know, if you think about it.
And so, you know, you look atAlexander the great, you know,
he had, he had his infantry menwere ranged, you know, between
20 and 60, one of his generalsand head of his cavalry was I
think 76 and still in war, likefighting, you know, as a, as a
76 year old man.
So, you know, we, when you eatproperly, when you live
properly, You actually, yourbody works a lot better and can

(14:23):
maintain itself much better.
So of course that wasn't thecase.
It was that I started eatingthings that I shouldn't have
started.
I didn't realize how much of adifference that made.
And so I started slipping offjust a little bit more.
The main thing is it wasn'treally necessarily just the
breading that caused a problem,which it did.
It's that since I made that bitof leeway, I started making more

(14:47):
exceptions and more exceptionsand more exceptions until at one
point, I remember we're alllike, sort of the team was
getting together, like on aSunday.
I was like, Oh, why don't we alljust make, you know, French
toast and this and like, youknow, they didn't, they didn't
have that in England.
They put like ketchup on it andstuff like that.
They never put like, you know,jam and butter, which I thought
was just crazy.
So I like made it like how wewould have in America.
And then I remember that was, Ihaven't had this forever and I

(15:08):
didn't even think about why thatwas, right.
And it's like, Oh yeah, I don'teat plants.
These things are trying to killme.
And it just.
It was just a slow sort of slipoff and I just didn't really
notice what was happening.
And, and then so I startedeating more.
I was still very meat centric.
Always just ate a lot of meat.
But, you know, it started toslip off so I started eating

(15:28):
other things as well.
And it wasn't until, I don'tknow, like 10 years later that,
you know, I came across youknow, and after medical school
that I came across, you know,Dr, you know, Sean Baker on, on
Joe Rogan.
And my brother was saying, hewas just like, Hey, you know,
this guy, he's a doctor.
He played professional rugby.
And he's saying you can get allthe nutrition you need for meat.

(15:49):
And, you know, instantly thatset up some warning flags, like,
Oh, that can't, I can't bebecause you certainly get taught
that that's not the case.
And but I remember thinking backand I was like, well, I mean, I
basically did that for fiveyears, you know, I didn't eat
any plants.
And I remember thinking tomyself, like, well, am I missing
out on any nutrients?
Like, should I eat a banana orsomething?
But I remember like, you know,thinking that it was like, well,

(16:10):
you know, I feel good and mygums aren't bleeding.
So we'll just, just see how thisgoes.
Just ride this out.
And you know, never had aproblem.
So I was like, well, okay.
You know, as I had thatbackground, I was just like,
well, it's actually not that farfetched because I did that
without even thinking about it.
And so, you know, You know, I'dsay, all right, well, you know,
i'll take it out and within fiveminutes of watching it I was

(16:30):
like, okay, this guy's moreright than he knows because I
had a lot of other backgroundthat fed into his whole argument
and so that was you know Likethe plants are trying to kill
you like cholesterol is actuallygood for you.
Like fructose is is a veryharmful agent and can cause
different damage to your bodyjust in the same way as alcohol
does.
You get fatty liver disease,cirrhosis, diabetes, heart
disease, even it's evenimplicating cancer and

(16:53):
Alzheimer's.
So, I knew all that.
And I thought that was verycomplimentary towards what Dr.
Baker was saying.
And so I just really juststarted digging into the
research and really saying,okay, what do we know?
What do we understand?
What can we prove right now?
And we can prove quite a lot andwe can certainly prove that
humans or carnivores haveevolved as such.
And you know, that's why we're,we're called apex predators.

(17:16):
Top of the food chain.
What does that mean?
Does that mean you eat salad?
Probably not.
I've never heard of a cow beingcalled top of the food chain,
you know, and there's noherbivore that is top of the
food chain because that's, notwhat that word means.
That word means that you eatanimals below you like a great
white shark and you know, apexpredators don't graze.
And so yeah, that's easily easyto prove.

(17:38):
And you just go on from there.
So, that was sort of myreintroduction to it.
And when I really reallyrecognize what was actually
going on.
And when I really starteddigging into the research, and
that was, that was probablyabout five years ago when I got
back from doing humanitarianwork in, in Bangladesh for the
2017 genocide that happened inBurma.

(17:58):
So I want to know, like, wherewas the disconnect before you
found out about Dr.
Sean Baker?
Where, because now we realizedthat, you know, the carnivore
diet, I, I know, I know for me,in my experience, I go back and
forth into the carnivore dietand my back pain will instantly

(18:20):
be non existent and, and, and,you know, I would jump back and
forth whenever I would want tofeel great.
It has that same effect withyour, when you're fasting.
For you, what was the disconnectthere before you, because you
remember you don't, you haven'tlinked this back to when you

(18:40):
were doing carnivore.
And.
You didn't know you were doingcarnivore at that time.
And because of that, because youhaven't made the connection, you
didn't know that, you know, somuch breading is causing you
inflammation.
So much of the other stuffyou've add on to your lifestyle
is causing you to feel muchdifferent from where you were.

(19:03):
Where do you think was, is thedisconnect from that time to
what, what are we notunderstanding at that time?
Do you think?
No, I, I think you're, I thinkyou're, you're right on there
that I just, I just didn'trealize how significant what I,
what I was doing was I just, Idid not realize how much of a
difference it made in my life.

(19:23):
I, I attributed most of my, youknow, benefits to athleticism
and endurance to the notdrinking, which absolutely made
a huge difference.
Now that's plain as day.
But.
You know, the rest of it would,you know, gave a significant
benefit as well.
Well, it was a massive benefit.
They both gave massive benefits,but it was, it was because I

(19:47):
didn't, it didn't quite realize,you know, just how significant
it was that I was able, that I,you know, slipped off and I
continued to not drink duringthe rugby season.
I, you know, continued to playreally well and, you know,
played for, you know, severalyears after that before medical
school and then through medicalschool and beyond as a doctor
during, during residency.
So, you know, I continue to dothat, but I would, I never had

(20:08):
the same.
Sort of results and, and ease ofgetting fit and, and peak level
of fitness was, was verydifferent.
So it was just because it wasjust a slow insidious change for
me because it just started withbreaded chicken.
And, and then it just, you know,slowly progressed and well,
maybe this little other thing,maybe put a ketchup on things.

(20:29):
I'll now make French toast andhave jam on it.
Hmm.
Seriously, just never thoughtabout these things, but they
just slowly creeped in, slowlycreeped in until I just stopped
thinking about things in thesame way.
And because I wasn't thinkinglike I do a carnivore diet, you
know, it wasn't, it wasn't likea you know, a hallmark to hold
myself to and a standard to holdmyself to.
And then, after that, you know,there's just this inundation of,

(20:54):
of propaganda really about, youknow, plant based diet and how
this is actually the healthiestfor us.
And we're really herbivores.
And I was like, that doesn'tmake any sense.
And you know, so I never boughtinto that, but, you know,
they're saying that it's like,Oh, you need, you need, you
know, Mushrooms and you know,there's dr.
Furman who came up with a gomesdiet to greens onions Mushrooms

(21:19):
and beans seeds and all thatsort of crap and it's just like
that's the majority of it Youcan have some meat too, but like
you make like a big ass saladand like that's that's your main
meal maybe you can have somemeat as well and And he was just
pushing this and he was talkingabout these little things like,
Oh, there's anti VEGF inmushrooms.
So you really want that.
It helps fight cancer.
And my immediate thought to thatwas, okay, but it has over a

(21:42):
hundred carcinogens, you know,does that really offset?
And also, you know, anti VEGF isused to fight cancer.
Sure.
Do you have cancer?
If the answer is no, then whyare you taking chemo?
You know, that, that's not agood idea.
What you're, you're taking, youknow, I mean, you, you, VEGF
actually does something in yourbody and when it works

(22:02):
pathologically, obviously that'sa problem.
But, it has a purpose.
And so, now you're actuallydisrupting your normal, your
normal functions of, of yourbody.
So, you know, that, that sort ofseemed a bit odd.
And So I never really boughtinto that as well.
But so I started, I just, youknow, but I was like, all right,
well I can eat some more greens.
Like what's a big deal.
And it was just a, just a littlebit more, but I, I, I never ate

(22:23):
a lot of this stuff.
I certainly never ate a lot ofcarbs.
Sometimes I would have somethinglike, you know, pasta or
whatever, but it it just, justdidn't creep in that, you know,
I was, I was doing somethinglike that, that, that was
harming me to that extent.
And you know, I mean, I didn'tbuy fully into it because I kept

(22:43):
remembering.
I was like, well, you know, Itook cancer biology and you
know, these things have a lot ofcarcinogens in them and you
know, so they can't be, or arethey really that good for you
on, on net benefit?
And it, there is such thisweight of you know, of, of, you
know, personalities and doctorsand recommendations saying that
this is the way you have to doit, that, you know, it's, it's,

(23:04):
it's difficult, you know, and,and it's difficult to you know,
fight against that if you don'treally know what you're fighting
against.
And so it was after.
You know, I saw Dr.
Baker that everything justclicked and it was just like,
okay, that's what I was doing.
That's what I was doingdifferently.
That's why I felt so amazing.
Now it makes sense.
And, and so now, now it's very,very easy to, to fight against

(23:26):
that because now I know what'sgoing on.
And you think about it like,okay, actually humans are
carnivores.
That's actually the kind ofanimal we are.
And that makes perfect sense.
And then you look at medicine,you know, through that scope
that humans are animals.
The kind of animal we are ascarnivores, and we're not eating
as such.
And if you look at any animal,like in the zoo or in captivity

(23:46):
or as a pet, if you feed themsomething that they don't eat in
the wild, that they don't eatnaturally, then they get, they
get very, very sick.
You know, it goes for dogs andcats.
It also goes for zoo animals.
And you know, this is why thereare signs everywhere at the zoos
or parks saying, don't feed theanimals.
You know, this food is not goodfor them.
And then we, and then we give itto ourselves and thinking it's
completely fine.

(24:06):
So obviously that's a, that'snot the case.
And so everything in medicinejust started slotting into place
as well.
I think also you're ready tohear it too.
It sparked an instant curiosity.
At that point in your life.
I believe that carnivore issimple enough to understand, but
I think it's our mindset thatneeds to shift, right?
It's a totally different world.

(24:29):
But I think also.
Where the biggest problem is, isthat there is still a negative
connotation that's attacheditself on red meat and fat.
I know this for a fact, becausemy parents are terrified of it.
Saturated fat causes heartdisease.
One red meat cause cancer.
Fat is bad.
You know, I believe you'vetalked about this numerous
occasions.

(24:50):
And the fact is that the peoplewho needs this information the
most.
And the people you need to helpthe most are the people.
Who are strongly opposed tocarnivore, right?
So let's get into the factshere.
As a former pro athlete, as wellas a, you know, a practitioner,
you were so ahead of your timewhen you were doing, you know,

(25:10):
your first stint with carnivorewith the first five years, the
carnivore diet hasn't beencoined yet to be that you've
been living that lifestyle nowfor, for several years.
And you've talked about.
You've always been interested inhow the body works.
I think that's one of the keythings that sparked your
curiosity.
You always want to how to, youknow, best feel your body to

(25:35):
just learn that.
How does carnivore work and whyis fat the better fuel and what
it, what does it do to the body?
That's so effective in healing.
Yeah, so, you know, that is,that is what really makes the
animal kingdom go around andthat's you, you'll see.
See, nearly all animals in thewild get around 70 to 80 percent
of their calories from fat andthey always go for the fat

(25:56):
first.
This is why you see animals suchas lions or wolves or hyenas or
whatever.
They always go for the bellyfirst.
This is where, you know, baconcomes from, the belly muscles.
And so that's where most of thefat is.
And then you get the fat aroundthe organs as well.
You know, mentum, it's, it's anorgan, but it's, it's almost
completely fat.
You know, there's, there's.

(26:16):
There's a fat around organs aswell.
And that's why people say, Oh,they go for the organs first.
The organs are so important, soimportant, so important.
And like, you know, like sure,like they have a lot of
nutrients in them, but.
You know, the, that's where thefat is as well.
The rest of the animal isextremely lean.
And so this is where mm, youknow, that you'll, you'll see
they go for the fat first.
And you can even see this funnyenough in like those survivalist

(26:38):
shows where someone's like, youknow, lost, you know, put out in
the, in the middle of Alaskasomewhere, and they just have to
survive for months on end.
They always have a store of fatand they're like, this is it.
This is life.
This is what you have to have,you have this store of fat or
whatever.
And they collect these thingsin, in tins or whatever, and
then they'll have like a, youknow.
Badger or Wolverine, like, youknow, raid their little food
camp.
They always go for the fatfirst.

(26:58):
They just eat this can of fat.
You also have, you know, youknow, four organs working in
concert just to absorb fat,right?
You have liver makes bile.
BIOL is stored in thegallbladder and then your
pancreas makes enzymes to breakdown fat and that, you know, the
bio emulsifies the fat and thenyour small intestine absorb it.
So if that weren't really reallyreally important, you know, you

(27:21):
know, your biology wouldn'twaste his time.
Evolution or Creator, whoever.
would never have wasted all thistime and energy to make those
things work together just to getthat.
Especially if it was bad foryou, why, why would you spend so
much energy and S and have somany organs working on this?
If it just to absorb somethingthat was super bad for you.

(27:41):
So that doesn't make any senseon its face.
Animals in the wild eat fat.
I mean, every, everyone knows oris at least seen something
about, you know, the Inuits andthe people in, in Northern North
America or Iceland or, orcertainly Scandinavia and
Siberia where they, they justeat blubber, you know, they're,
they're sitting there eating,you know, whale blubber or seal
blubber.
And, and they, and they're justeating as chunks of fat.

(28:03):
I remember seeing that as a kid.
I was like, well, isn't thatcause heart disease and that
kill people cause cancer.
And I was like, maybesomething's different.
And, and of course it, it isn'tthe case.
And so it's it's actually very,very beneficial.
So fat is extremely important.
Fat also does not make you fats.
Carbohydrates that make you fatyou know, as I'm sure you know,
and your, your listeners, ifthey follow and research a

(28:25):
ketogenic diet, when you're in,in ketosis and the so called
fasting metabolism, your, yourbiochemistry works very, very
differently and you can actuallyaccess your fat stores.
When you eat carbohydrates, it.
First of all, it's bad for you.
Higher blood sugar levels causedirect damage to your body
through glycation.
And to protect that, your bodyraises insulin defensively to

(28:48):
get this level down because youare, you are harming yourself.
Insulin has a long half life andso it stays up in your system
for longer than you'd want itto.
And so now your blood sugar isgoing low.
Insulin forces energy intocells.
It doesn't allow it to come outof cells.
So now you have to just keepeating carbs to keep Bumping up
your your blood sugar so youdon't get really tired and
horrible It also blocks leptinwhich is secreted from your fat

(29:11):
cells.
It tells your brain how muchenergy you need It's like a you
know running cascade and so youknow, it causes you to overeat
as well because your brain can'tsee it's leptin.
So it thinks you don't have anyenergy reserves and your blood
sugar is dropping.
So it thinks, Oh my God, we'restarving.
We're going to die.
And so it sends this panicsignal that says, if you don't
eat now, you will die.
And this is why three times aday people, Oh my God, I'm

(29:33):
starving.
I have to eat.
And they get so upset.
You know, we've coined thephrase hangry because of this.
Well, you know, that, that, thatshouldn't need to happen, you
know, because, you know, even,even a slender, You know,
individual like yourself, youhave enough fat reserves to go
weeks without any problem, youknow, and after that, yeah,
you'll, you'll startcatabolizing your, your muscle

(29:54):
tissue as well and startbreaking down and you start
really getting unwell.
But you actually have a lot ofenergy there.
It feels like, oh, well, I needto, I need to eat something on a
race or a marathon.
Like you don't, you reallydon't, you actually don't need
to eat.
But that, you know, just goingback to the whole insulin thing,
you know, when you eatcarbohydrates and your insulin
goes up, it just derails yourwhole metabolism.

(30:16):
And so that's, that's not ourprimary metabolic state.
I already know that.
And when you look at animals inthe, in the wild, that ketogenic
state or that fasting state thatwe, you know, that we think of
as secondary, it's actuallytheir primary metabolic state.
And that's the primary metabolicstate of humans in the wild as
well.
Like the Inuit, like the Maasai,like the Australian aboriginals

(30:38):
and so many other examples of,of carnivorous humans that are
always in ketosis.
So I argue that.
that that fasting metabolism isactually our primary metabolic
state.
That's where all of our heavymachinery comes to bear.
And, you know, even, even downto cellular metabolism, our
mitochondria work better, theyproduce more energy.
There are more mitochondria aswell.

(30:58):
So you get this, this you know,compounding increase in cellular
energy.
I just had an interview withProfessor Thomas Seyfried of
Boston College and formerly ofYale, who has, has, is one of
the world's experts on cancerbiology.
And he just shows that it's thedamage to mitochondria that
actually precipitate geneticchanges in your, in your cells

(31:19):
and actually cause cancerbecause they go into a
fermentation state instead ofoxidative phosphorylation,
phosphorylation.
And this causes a lot of seriousharm.
And so Even down to theorganelle level, carbohydrates
screw with your body.
So I don't think that for asecond that that can be our
primary metabolic state.

(31:40):
So when you're eating acarnivore diet, you, you get
into the metabolic state you'resupposed to, you're not eating
plants.
that have harmful defensechemicals.
So you're not hurting yourselfthere.
You're only giving yourself thenutrition that you need.
And the fat of course, as wellis very important.
So you're getting perfectnutrition.
You're getting exactly what yourbody needs.
You're in the proper metabolicstate where your body can

(32:01):
actually access its fat storesand, and function properly.
Your mitochondria work well.
better.
You're not going to get sorebecause you don't have all these
plant toxins in you, and you'renot going to get all the
detriments from even vegetables.
And I know, you know, there's alot of people in keto that eat a
lot of vegetables because theythink this is where I need to
get my, my nutrients from.
But you actually get all yournutrients from meat.
There are actually no nutrientsthat exist in plants that you

(32:23):
need that you can't get frommeat.
But there are things that youhave to have from meat that you
cannot get from plants.
And so, you know, to me, thatmeans.
We're not omnivores, but we'reobligate carnivores because we
have to eat meat or we will die.
So, you know that that to me isis pretty straightforward there
as well.
So there's a lot of reasons Youknow, and I think the only

(32:44):
reason that we call this a fedstate and not a fasting state is
because by the time we werelooking at biochemistry at a
molecular level, everyone waseating carbohydrates.
And so that's just, that's whatthey observed.
When you eat, your biochemistrylooks like this.
When you stop eating, it lookslike that.
And so, and we have tons andtons and tons and tons of
studies showing the benefits offasting.
But we also have studies showingthat fasting mimicking diets,

(33:07):
basically a keto diet gives thesame benefits of that, that
fasting gives.
And then a carnivore diet, youknow, is going to have even more
than that because you're not,you're not eating any of the
plant toxins either.
So it's not, you know, so somepeople will, you know, I know
Rhonda Patrick wrote a, wrote a30 page paper sort of
excoriating a carnivore diet andwent on Joe Rogan and talked

(33:28):
about it.
One of the things she said.
was that, well, you know, wehave all that, we know that
fasting really benefits people.
So, you know, this just mimicsfasting.
So that's really where thebenefits coming from.
And, and, you know, my responseis like, well, actually it's,
it's, it's more to do that.
Fasting mimics, you know, putsyou in the biochemical
Metabolism that you would be inany way that your body wants to

(33:50):
be in any way so it's actuallyfasting that's mimicking a
carnivore diet and And thatthat's that's what I think that
the evidence shows.
I want to pivot to Because youit's it's really it's really
interesting to me that you knowYou keep talking about
carbohydrates that causes allthese issues and we all know
that for a fact, but do you, doyou work with type two diabetic

(34:12):
patients you know, changingtheir lifestyle a lot?
So I, I have a question becausemy dad, he was diagnosed with
type two diabetes, my mom, prediabetic last year, and they
both came home from from thedoctors about this news.
And they don't talk aboutcarbohydrates like you do.

(34:33):
They talk about sugar.
That's what I think that'swhere, that's where the
disconnect is because my mom andmy dad, they don't eat sweets.
Right.
And they're, they're probably,you know, bewildered because,
okay, I don't eat sweets.
It must run in my family becausethe carbs is never in
conversation.
Yeah.

(34:53):
Right.
And so, yeah, that's justbothers me.
And that it's never mentioned.
Carbs is never mentioned.
And you never talked aboutsugar.
You always talk about carbs,that form.
Right.
So how, how, how do peopleunderstand this very well?
Because that's, that's the body.
No.
If it's sugar or carbs or it,does it matter?

(35:14):
Yeah.
So I mean, all, allcarbohydrates are sugars.
I mean, that's just sort oftheir, they're both
interchangeable terms.
We, we think of you know, just,just colloquially sugar as in
like table sugar, you know,sucrose.
Yeah.
And so, and, and of coursesucrose is, is a disaccharide
molecule.
Mm-Hmm.
So it's, it's a conjoined oftwo.
Carbohydrates of glucose andfructose.

(35:35):
So, but they're all technicallycarbs, they're all technically
sugars.
Fructose in particular is, is,is quite harmful and, and
independently will causeperipheral insulin resistance
and, you know, damage to your,your liver and, and and so
forth.
And it's actually more, it doesmore glycation, glycosylation
and oxidation damage to yourbody and to your cholesterol.

(35:56):
Then even glucose.
So having high blood sugar it,but, but they all, they all work
you know, towards that end aswell.
Fructose, I think, I think isworse, but any carbohydrate is
going to jack up your insulin.
So it's going to jack up yourblood sugar, which will damage
you.
And in response, your body willjack up its insulin, you know,
which, Will curtail that effectof the high blood sugar, but it

(36:20):
has its own problems, you knowSo, you know even even high
insulin levels can cause harm,you know You know high insulin
actually blocks the conversionof testosterone to estrogen in
women's ovaries And so you canget this is this is a major
cause of PCOS Which is you know,the leading cause of infertility
and women and hormonaldysregulation so just the

(36:41):
insulin itself can actuallyscrew with you and You know, so
As far as diabetes is concerned,that's a funny thing is that, is
that we've papered over so manythings that we, we have very
clear evidence on because theysaid, that's bad, cholesterol is
bad, heart, you know, therefore,you know, meat is bad.
And so go to a plant based diet,you know, that happened after

(37:03):
the USDA declared declaration in1977, that.
Cholesterol cause heart disease,which it doesn't that was
complete fraud that guy who'shead of usda who published that
It's now a matter of record thathe was he was being paid off by
the sugar companies the journalof american medical association
Actually published internalmemos in 2015 showing this.
Okay, so that's just ahistorical fact.
That's not that's not up fordebate so You know when when

(37:26):
people did that they startedbasically just just completely
changing our view You On, onhealth and nutrition and even
medicine, because we have beentreating type two diabetes and
even type one diabetes since thelate eighteen hundreds with a
ketogenic diet.
Okay.
Even type one diabetics, this,this is hugely beneficial to

(37:48):
them because it completelystabilizes their blood sugars.
And, you know, so they need avery small amount of insulin and
just a background dose.
just to sort of make things run,run properly, but they barely
need any at all.
There's also been studies withfasting and then fasting
mimicking diet in animal models.
They haven't shown this inhumans, but you can actually

(38:08):
regrow the beta islet cells thatmake insulin in the pancreas in
mice that have been put onfasting for four days a month or
as little as four days a month.
And you can do that again with afasting mimicking diet, which is
a ketogenic diet.
And we've also been usingketogenic diets to treat
refractory epilepsy for 90 yearsnow.

(38:29):
And you know, even in the 1800s,Dr.
J.
H.
Salisbury and a number of otherswere using a carnivore diet,
just a pure red meat and waterdiet to cure all sorts of, every
autoimmune disease, but likespecifically rheumatoid
arthritis, Crohn's, ulcerativecolitis, increase people's you
know, immune system and, andhelp them fight off.
tuberculosis easier.
So people were survivingtuberculosis, which was a major,

(38:50):
major killer in the 1800s, early1900s.
And you know, they found thatthat if you just went on a pure
red meat and water diet, youcould get over this far more
easily than other people could.
So, you know, this, this isstuff that's, that's been in the
literature for a long time.
Over a century, you know, evenas recently as 1975, there was a
gastroenterologist who wrote abook called the stone age diet,

(39:12):
who again, argued humans arecarnivores.
That's the kind of animal youare and we're not eating
properly.
We're not eating as a carnivoreshould.
And that's why we're gettingthese problems.
And he argued from agastroenterology point of view,
you know, you know, Crohn's IBD,all these things and all these,
these, these GI issues, youknow, even, you know, colon
cancer and so forth.

(39:32):
If you don't eat plants.
these things don't exist, youknow?
And You know, that's the thing,you know, animals in the wild
don't get cancer.
You know, animals in the zoo,when fed their normal diet,
don't get cancer.
Dogs and cats, they get cancer.
But they didn't in the 1970s andbefore that.
It was very, very rare.
When, when we were not feedingthem packaged dog food with a

(39:53):
bunch of plants and grains.
We just gave them, you know,meat.
and table scraps.
So you know, this, this is aderangement of our biochemistry
and our biology and that'swhat's precipitating the cancer.
Cancer is, is is a verydifferent than what I was taught
in medical school as, as shownby Professor Seyfried.
He's very, very, very strongevidence to show this, that this

(40:15):
is mitochondrial metabolicdisease as opposed to a genetic
disease.
So it's, It's something that'sso easy to treat you know, like
diabetes and, and and theseother issues as well.
They don't, they don't existreally, if you don't treat them.
If you, you know, don't eatplants and don't eat sugar.
And that's sort of the premiseof a book I'm writing, which is

(40:38):
that the so called, you know,modern chronic diseases that we
treat are first of all, very,very new.
These, these things didn'tactually exist.
To any great extent, even, evenhalf a century ago.
Now they're the only thingsretreat and you know, you can
see that this perfectly matchesour change to a more plant based
diet increase in sugar and carbsas well.

(40:59):
And, and, and eating less meatand especially less fat.
And now these diseases haveskyrocketed.
You know, we've reduced ourcholesterol and fat intake by 30
percent reduced red meat by 33percent and heart disease rates
tripled.
So how are you saying that,Cholesterol causes heart disease
when you reduce cholesterol andheart disease increases.
If anything, you can say thatit's protective, but you know,
which it is actually, that'swhat all the studies show now

(41:21):
that there's an inversecorrelation between saturated
fat and saturated fat and LDLcholesterol and and heart
disease and stroke or, andAlzheimer's and Parkinson's and
and longevity.
So, you know, these, thesethings are, are very, very
helpful.
Mm.
And you know, the cancer rates,cancer rates tripled as well
since the 1980s.
So again, you know, theseso-called chronic diseases, I

(41:44):
don't think are diseases per se.
I think that they're toxicities,toxic buildup of species and
appropriate diet and a lack ofspecies specific nutrition.
So it's toxicities andmalnutrition and basically too
many plants, not enough, notenough meat.
And there are, there's a ton.
Of evidence in the literaturealready to, to show that man, I

(42:05):
can't wait to get that book.
That's in the works, man.
Let me know when that's out.
I'll I'll get, I'll get my copy.
Man.
Yeah, definitely.
People seldom find, you know,carnivore like you did.
Most people usually findcarnivore from a failing health
metabolic disease.
You know, I've seen, you know,people have gut issues, mental
illness too.

(42:26):
Yeah.
Right?
The list goes on and on and on,not to mention you really have
to have an open mind, curious,and you know, only when
traditional medicine couldn'thelp them anymore and in most
cases, it only works whensomebody's desperate enough to
try long, to try it long enoughto see results, right?
So, for people who are ready totake on this journey, Can you

(42:49):
take them through a way thatyou've taught your clients for
maximum follow through andeffectiveness to reach that peak
health through Carnivore?
Cause it's, it's not easy.
It's simple.
Very simple, but it's not easy.
Yeah.
But take us through how one can,you know, sustain this diet
starting in the beginning.
Yeah, I mean, I think that, Ithink that education and

(43:12):
understanding, you know, what,what you're doing, what the
premise is, is really important,you know, because if, if you
think of this as just like atemporary crash diet or
whatever.
Or even, even sometimes you hearin, in the keto space, they say,
well, this is, this is a way of,of, of tricking your body into
thinking it's starving to death.
And then somehow this benefitsyou starving to death.
Which of course, that's not thecase.

(43:33):
This isn't, this is, we aren'tstarving to death.
We aren't putting ourselves intoa stress state.
And that's what some people say.
It's like, Oh, you know, yougotta be careful about ketosis.
It's really harmful to you.
You, you're, your body's in astress state.
This will increase cortisol,which will do X, Y, and Z and
blah, blah, blah.
None of that is true.
This is our primary metabolicstate.
So having people understandthat, having people understand
that this, this is what we arebiologically adapted and

(43:54):
designed to do is veryimportant.
And that this isn't somethingthat you just, you just do and
you crash through until thediabetes goes away or until the
rheumatoid arthritis goes away.
And then you just go back toeating poison, because
obviously, you know, what I'msaying is like, this is, this is
a poison model as opposed to adisease model.
Right.
So, you know, you have leadpipes and you get lead
poisoning.

(44:14):
So you stop drinking water fromthe lead pipes and like, Oh, I
don't have lead poisoninganymore.
I can go back to drinking lead,drinking from lead pipes.
Like, well, okay, no, you know,you don't want to do that
because you're just going to getlead poisoning again.
And this is why I have, I takeissue with some of the carnivore
people saying that, Oh, you, ifyou're metabolically healthy,
You can eat, you know, fruit andhoney and things like that which
will make you metabolicallysick.

(44:35):
Okay, now you're metabolicallyhealthy.
You won't stay that way ifyou're eating the things that
will cause damage to yourmetabolism and your metabolic
health.
So it's just understanding thatunderstanding the the The, the
fundamental, you know, alwaysgoing back to first principles,
you know, we are carnivores,that is the kind of animal we
are, this is where we get all ofour nutrition from, and plants

(44:56):
are trying to kill you, allright, insofar as we're trying
to kill them, right, you know,because they're not, they're
not, you know, stalking us athome or anything like that, but
they're, you know, they, theywill defend themselves.
You know, and they will, theywill kill you to stay alive and
good for them.
You know, that's, that's whatanimals do as well.
And that's what all life does.
So that's that's just the natureof these things.

(45:20):
And so just understanding thatand saying, okay.
This is, this is, this is it.
And, and just, you know,focusing on what not to eat as,
as much as what to eat.
You know, because everyone, alot of people will go carnivore
and, and they'll just starteating a lot more meat and, and
then they'll say, Oh, but I'mstill having this problem.
I still having that problem.
It didn't quite work for me.
Like I feel better and I'mlosing some weight, but you

(45:42):
know, it's not really doing, youknow, what it's doing for other
people.
almost invariably they areeating something that they
shouldn't, they're usingartificial sweeteners you know,
stevia or still drinking coffeeor doing, doing something that
is curtailing their results.
And so, you know, they say, Oh,well, you know, carnivore, I
felt really good and it reversedmy autoimmune issues, but I

(46:03):
didn't really lose weight.
So it didn't work for me and youknow, obviously, you know, they,
they didn't quite do fullcarnivore.
Now there are some people thatdon't lose weight right away.
You know, their, theirmetabolism and their hormonal
health has to, has to adapt andreadapt to you know, normalcy
because they've been, You know,sabotaging their own health for
so long with all these, well,eating the wrong thing, but also

(46:25):
with you know, these, these verycrash, you know, crash diets
that are really damaging to yourmetabolism, but eventually that
will, that will heal and thatwill get better.
And, and your body will startworking normally if you're
eating pure meat and water.
So it's just explaining that tothem that, you know, it's as
much what not to eat as what toeat.
So, you know, my hard rule is noplants, no water.
No sugar, nothing artificial.

(46:47):
And that would go for sauces,seasonings, and drinks as well.
So really just eat meat andwater and get enough fat.
And you want your fat to be, youhave a fat intake.
Sufficient to keep your stoolssoft because that's, that means
that you're getting enough fatand there, there are reasons for
that.
But you know, your, your bodycan only absorb a certain amount
of fat and after that it, itjust goes out in waste.

(47:09):
So you really can't overeat fat.
You know, I just, You know, Idisagree with that, that
concept, you know, just, justintellectually, because it's,
it's almost impossible for yourbody to absorb fat without bile.
It can a bit, but most of itwill actually get excreted.
And it's that excess that's inthe stools that gets excreted,
that will keep your stool soft.
And so if your stools are soft,that means you have your body's
getting as much fat as it wants.

(47:31):
And then there's a little extra,so you know, you're topping it
up.
And if you eat a lot more thanyou'll get loose stools, so you
can just, you can just pull itand then it's just, Just, just,
you know, encouraging them, youknow, to, to get through the
first couple weeks, which iswhere you'll be withdrawing from
sugar and carbs and all thesedifferent things that you've
been eating that aren't good foryou and you sort of get that

(47:51):
stuff out of your system.
And then after it's all out ofyour system, after about two
weeks, then you really juststart hitting your stride and
you'll just feel better than youever have.
And your body will just starttransforming and your health
will start transforming.
You know, and it's just, just,you know, letting them know just
to keep it simple, just eatmeat, just drink water, salt to
taste and that's it, you know,and you know, so there's sort of

(48:14):
a, sort of a lot in there, but,you know, the main thing is just
education, letting them knowthat this is, this is actually a
natural way to eat.
This is not something with atime limit on it.
This isn't something that you,you do for a short period of
time and then you have to getaway from it because it's going
to harm you.
It will not harm you.
Your natural diet, yourbiologically appropriate diet
will never harm you.
Anyone at any age, any gender,any stage of life, any medical

(48:37):
condition, you know, I mean youget some people with like, you
know, they get bitten bywhatever the Lone Star tick and
it gets, you know, certain, youknow, versions, but that, you
know, that's, that's not, youknow, in your genetics, that's
something that you've been,you've been exposed to.
So, you know, it's just, yeah,just, just.
having people understand thatand understand that this isn't a

(48:58):
diet.
This isn't something you doshort term.
You want to try to actually makethis a lifestyle and say like,
I'm not going back to that.
And that's when people have,have, have real benefit and real
results is when they just, theyactually change their lifestyle.
What's the one question thatyou've been asked over and over
the most?
It's usually about likeconstipation and things like

(49:19):
that.
It's just like, you know, why amI constipated?
You know, don't I need fiber?
Oh yeah, that's a big one.
Yeah, that's about fiber.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you don't need fiber.
In fact, you don't want fiber.
Fiber is harmful.
It's it's, you know, it's, it'ssawdust and they actually add
sawdust to a lot of processedfoods to increase their fiber
content because now fiber isclassified as an essential

(49:40):
nutrient, essential meaning thatit is essential for life.
And if you do not take it in inyour food, you, you'll die, you
know what I'm saying?
So I accept that they haven'treally described a, a fiber
deficiency deficiency You know,like, you know, like B12
deficiency, you know, and soit's it's a bit, it's a bit
ridiculous to me that they wouldeven call that a an essential

(50:03):
nutrient.
But either way, it's not, it'sit's something that our body
can't use and has to excrete.
And then it argues that, thenpeople argue that, well, that,
no, that's actually a good thingthat, you know, now you're
giving your, intestine, youknow, some bulk to like move
things through and you want tomove it through fast.
You know, but there's, there'snot actually no evidence to say

(50:23):
that that's what you want.
You know, your colon is, isdesiccating and drying out and
pulling the water from yourstools for a reason.
That's its job.
You know, you're, you'reconserving water.
Now that's a, that's a goodthing.
You know, life is very efficientand, and you know, You know,
you, you don't waste things.
If you're, if you're wastingnutrients, if you're wasting

(50:43):
water, you're going to die.
Like, you know, most of the, youknow, the, the history of life
on earth is, is about notgetting, you know, you know,
struggling to get resources,struggling to get enough food,
struggling to get enough waterand fighting for those
resources.
And so if we are just wastingwater, wasting nutrients, you
know, fiber blocks your body'sabsorption.

(51:05):
of various nutrients.
And so people say, Oh, that's agood thing.
So it'll actually help you loseweight because it'll stop you
from absorbing nutrients.
It's like, why would that besomething that That would be
beneficial in the wild.
Why would that be something thatwould, you know, help us out to
survive?
Well, there'd be a survival youknow, benefit like that.
That doesn't make any sense.

(51:26):
You know, you want to, you wantto conserve as all the nutrients
and all the water that you can.
So yeah, fiber is very bad foryou.
And it also causes microabrasions in your gut lining.
increased mucous secretion,increased inflammatory response.
And I think is, is a maincontributor to autoimmune
diseases like Crohn's andulcerative colitis.
And I talked to people.

(51:46):
With Crohn's and ulcerativecolitis, invariably, when they
go on a carnivore diet, justpure meat and water, it's, this
is completely reversed withinthree months.
I mean, well, within threemonths, it's usually, usually
they don't have any you know,within a couple of weeks, they
stop having any flare ups andthey start getting better and
better.
I have yet to see someone get abiopsy after three months that

(52:06):
didn't show complete resolutionand no sign of inflammation.
Not a, not a single person.
that I've seen has not hadcomplete resolution on biopsy
after three months of carnivore.
And so they have told me that,you know, Fiber in particular
really screws them up anythingwith fiber in it They'll eat
that and and they'll instantlyhave a flare up and they'll just

(52:28):
have any a bloody diarrhea andyou know intractable pain For
days and so, you know, I didthis isn't something that's good
and you don't need it to keepyour stool softer Then to avoid
constipation Because it'sactually fat That does that.
It's actually fat that keepsyour stool soft.
And what people also don'trealize is that you absorb like

(52:49):
98, 99 percent of the meat thatyou eat.
And so you're just going to go alot less.
That's not constipation.
Constipation is if it's dry andhard, that's what constipation
is.
And so maybe you'll only go onceor twice a week, but if that's,
that's soft and a normalconsistency.
That, that's perfectly fine.
That's not constipation.
Which is also funny, you know,when, when people say that, you

(53:09):
know, like your parents weresaying that, you know, the
vilification of meat, thiscauses cancer.
It absolutely does not.
There's no evidence of that.
And the, the weakepidemiological correlation was,
has been thoroughly debunked andother studies have shown there's
no correlation and in fact areverse correlation.
And so then they say that, oh,your body actually can't
process, it can't break downmeat.

(53:30):
It's not really good at that.
But then they say, oh yeah, youshould eat fiber because your
body can't break it down at all.
So, you know, your body, your,your digestive tract is a tube.
It's a one way Go, it's not likethere's little outpouchings
where just, you know,unprocessed meat just, just
sits, it will go out.
If you eat a steak and youcannot break down a steak, you
will excrete a steak, you know,but that doesn't happen.

(53:51):
Yeah.
You know, but when you eatfiber, when you eat plants,
that's exactly what happensbecause you actually can't break
down fiber.
You can't, there, no vertebrateanimal can break down fiber, you
know, it's actually the bacteriaand the guts of, of herbivores
that break this down.
The animal itself is not doingthat.
And so it yeah.
You know, it is the case thatit's actually fiber and plants

(54:11):
that are impossible to breakdown and meat is what we're,
we're very adapted to breakingdown and absorbing.
It's funny because you say thatit's, it has been debunked so
many times, but it's still stuckwith people, you know,
unfortunately is there a way toease yourself into this
lifestyle or you just jump intoit?
You could, you know, I thinkthat at some point you have to

(54:33):
rip the Band Aid off, you know,and for me it was much easier
just to, just to jump into it.
You know, when you look atsmoking or, or drinking or, or,
you know, getting away fromdrugs, you know, all, all the
studies that I'm aware of.
I've shown that that cold turkeyis a way to go now There's
certain things like you knowwith alcohol or with you know
Benzodiazepines that if you comeoff off right away and you don't

(54:53):
wean yourself off.
Yeah, it's actually dangerousbut things like opiates or or
cigarettes obviously you canjust come right off or coffee
caffeine those you can just comeright off and then you'll get
through the withdrawal periodand But it's not dangerous.
You just you just feelmiserable, but but it ends and
so that's sort of how I I feelwith with the food as well.
There's some people that arguethat you really should do it in

(55:15):
a more slow, gradual way.
And they have certainly goodreasons for that.
You know, Professor BarrettKaye, who I, I've you know, much
admire and have a lot of respectfor it.
You know, he, he says that thisis, you know, some people can
get.
a disruption in theirmicrobiome.
If they, if they switched tooearly or, or, you know, too, too
rapidly and they should, youshould do sort of a, you know,

(55:35):
slow progression and you know,and anything that guy says is
well researched and well thoughtout.
So, you know, I've definitelygot a lot of time for anything
that he says for me, it, it wasfine.
And and I've certainly noticedthat, that most people that I
talked to and coach have, havebeen fine just going cold
Turkey.
And.
you know, it may be that somepeople have a problem and they

(55:57):
need to sort of address thingsdifferently.
But at some point anyway, ifyou're, if you're going to wean
off or you're going to just stopat some point, you just have to
rip the bandaid off.
And so at some point you're justgoing to have to say, okay,
today's the day.
And this stops.
And so I, I, I find that it's abit more difficult, you know,
like, it's like the person who'sjust, Oh, I'm going to cut down
smoking.
I'm cutting down smoking,cutting down smoking.
And then they've been, you know,quote unquote, you know,

(56:19):
quitting smoking for 20 years.
You know, and, and, and nowthey're smoking more than they
were 20 years ago when theystarted quitting and it's so I,
I think that if you're going towean this stuff down, you have
to have a clear plan on whatyou're going to do for me.
I think that you just, just, youjust get into it and just.
Stop.

(56:40):
I think that that works.
You just, here's the line.
This is the day.
This is what I'm going to stop.
It's really good.
And you just, you just throw allthe crap out of your house.
You know, you just get rid ofit.
Because you don't want thatthere.
You don't want that there as a,as, as as a lure.
You know, because if you havesomething in the house at some
point, you're going to eat it oryou're waiting till the day that
you're like, Oh, well, this isjust a short term thing.

(57:01):
You really want to commit andjust say like, okay, this is
what i'm doing.
I don't need any of this thiscrap anymore because i'm never
going to eat it again Becauseit's bad for me and i'm not
going to eat things that are badfor me anymore And then you get
it out of out of sight out ofmind and then you can really
really focus on what you'redoing so I think I like jumping
into it.
There are certainly argumentsfor, for weaning into it, but if
you're going to wean into it youshould be very careful and have

(57:24):
a clear set out plan.
I'm going to eat.
You know less and less and lessevery day every week or whatever
until you're like on this date.
I'm just stopping all plants youknow, so But at some point you
do have to just stop Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for god.
I can speak to you for forhours, man like there's so much

(57:44):
here that for our listeners to II would get but I would go back,
you know, we listen and justtake my notes and and start
writing man because you There'sa lot that you've Out for us
here.
That's really important tounderstand to just learn about
the benefits of the carnivorediet and you know, how to live

(58:05):
that lifestyle.
And so thank you so much forcoming on, sharing your story.
Dr.
Anthony Shafee.
It's been a pleasure.
Yeah, not a problem.
Thank you very much for havingme.
It's been, yeah, it's been apleasure.
Where can people find you?
Yeah.
So I have I have a YouTubechannel, just Anthony Chafee MD,
and I have a lot of videos upthere and I try to, I try, I,

(58:26):
well, I put something up everyweek.
Sometimes, you know, two orthree videos a week.
And Yeah, and that's justAnthony Chafee is my, Anthony
ChafeeMD is my YouTube channel.
I have an Instagram as well, andthe same name, just Anthony
ChafeeMD, and I, I'll post whenI'm putting something up on
YouTube or my podcast.
And then as you mentioned I havea podcast as well.
It's available on any, anypodcast.

(58:47):
podcast platform called theplant free MD with Anthony
Chafee with Dr.
Anthony Chafee.
And and that's pretty much itfor the social media.
I do some stupid stuff on TikTokand put up like some videos and
things like that as well.
But, but those are the mainones.
And yeah, so, and I'm speakingat Keto Con this weekend as
well, and doing it in acarnivore panel as well as a, as

(59:07):
a talk.
Mm-Hmm.
and a couple of conventions likethat.
But yeah.
And, and I post a lot of thatstuff on, on you on on
Instagram, sort of what I'mgonna be doing and when as well.
Are you able to, oh, and then Ihave your, the book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so the book, I'm, you know,I've got it all outlined.
I've got it all, all sort ofdrafted what I want to do.

(59:29):
And I was just about getting itall on paper, but, you know, I
work, you know, neurosurgicalresidency.
It's like, you know, it's, it'sa hundred plus hours a week,
easily, you know, sometimes themost I've done is 135 hours.
And that was, that was a bit.
hectic and it was straight intothe next week, you know, of
doing sort of the similar,similar hours.
So, you know, then doing thevideos and the podcasts and, and

(59:49):
interviews and, you know, comingto KetoCon it takes a lot of,
you know, a lot of time that youknow, that I have in reserve is,
is sort of done with that.
And then so it's been a bitdifficult, but yeah, I'm, I'm,
Certainly working on gettingthis stupid thing written all
for a great cause all for agreat cause hopefully Awesome.
Well, hopefully hopefully ithelps people Well, you you're

(01:00:10):
helping me right now justunderstanding, you know, the
science behind everything andI'm so grateful for you Just you
know sharing your story justbeing on here and speaking to
our listeners man.
Dr.
Anthony Shafi.
Thank you, sir Thank you verymuch.
Appreciate it.
All right.

(01:00:30):
Thank you.
Thank you.