The Algorithm vs. Humanity - Digital Strings: Who’s Really Pulling Them - Key Factors RealEstateAF

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
Father, thank you so much for the day that you've
given us today.
Thank you for all the blessingsyou've bestowed upon us.
Thank you for the presence ofthese five strong gentlemen that
are in this room right now.
I'm gonna ask that you lead ourvoices and our hearts with your
spirit, with your wisdom,instill the words in us to do
something impactful here today.
Let us do your work and yourhonor in this podcast today.
We're so thankful for the day.

(01:01):
We love you, man.
God bless.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03):
Amen.
Amen.
And welcome back to anotherepisode of Key Factors Podcast
Real Estate AF.
And I'm your host, Mark Jones,and we are powered by
Lonebot.com.
And today we're going to bediving into conversation that
goes beyond real estate and homeprices.
Um, we're going to be talkingabout something that I believe

(01:23):
many of us tend to overlook andbecome uh kind of wrapped up in.
It's the I can't say age-oldissue because it is a new age
issue.
Uh, we'll be talking aboutsocial media.
We'll be talking about um how itcontrols what we are doing, and
we'll be tying that back to ourindustry.

(01:46):
Um, but I want to make sure tointroduce our guests, and this
is going to be a powerfulconversation, not what you
normally hear on Key FactorsPodcast, um, but definitely
something and a conversationthat needs to take place.
Um, so I couldn't have thisconversation without the power
of these other three men in theroom.
So, first I want to introduceour guests and give them a

(02:08):
little moment to uh tell usabout themselves briefly.
Uh, you may or may not haveheard about them.
Uh, if you have not, that'sokay.
We're gonna talk about it now.
First, I want to introduce MattMazzako.
Matt, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
I'm blessed, man.
Yeah.
I'm blessed, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:23):
Um, real quick, if you could just tell us who you
are, um, what you're about, allthat good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Um, well, I'm Matt Mazacco.
I'm a mortgage lender.
I've been doing this pretty muchas long as you have to.
Yeah, about 16 years, born andraised in San Antonio.
Um, I'm just me, man.

SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Very good, very good.
And then uh next we've got SteveCollins, the Steve Collins.
How are you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_05 (02:44):
Doing great, Mark.
Thank you.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (02:46):
Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_05 (02:49):
Well, um, let's just get there real quick at 20 years
old, dead dying, suicidal,bipolar manic, depressive,
crackhead, needle tracks up anddown my arm, taken into
protective custody by the legalsystem, committed to the Texas
State Hospital, dead dying,ready to end my life.
Uh, got my high schoolgirlfriend pregnant, got
married, she got pregnant fromanother guy, and I was gonna put
a gun in my head.
I said, God, if you're real andyou can help me, I'll do

(03:10):
whatever you want.
And clearly that prayer gotanswered.
I had no idea I was gonna becalled to the marketplace.
I thought I was gonna be uh inthe church and uh serving in the
church, but he had a differentplan to get in the marketplace.
And so this will we're going onclose to 30 years in real
estate, 45 in sales.
Uh, Angela and I will celebrate31 years next week, seven kids.

(03:33):
Um, just have done a lot ofstuff in those 30 years.
Never worked a Sunday in thelast seven years on my team, no
nights and weekends.
And so that developed into anopportunity for me to help other
people in the business learnthat you could succeed
financially at a high levelwithout sacrificing your
spirituality or your health oryour marriage or your parenting,
that you really could win on allareas if you just got crystal

(03:56):
clear on what to do and reallytrusted God for the daily
disciplines to do it.
So um, in a nutshell, everythingthat I have been about has been
not so much to teach, but tomodel as best as I can, which is
a hell of a lot harder thanteaching.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (04:12):
Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_05 (04:13):
So, you know, I mess it up every day, but I mean, I
get up every time I get knockeddown, and I hope that my uh
intensity and passion is aninspiration, particularly for
other men.

SPEAKER_04 (04:24):
Absolutely love that.
Um, Jeff Garza.
What's up, man?
How are you, sir?
Doing very well.
Great to see you.
Um, what do you think about thenew studio?

SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
I love it, man.
Not bad.
I love it.
A lot of elbow rooms, especiallyfor us guys that shop in the
husky section.
This is real good.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (04:39):
Big and husky, no, big and lovely.
That's right.
Yeah, for sure.
So, Jeff, tell us a little bitabout yourself uh for the folks
out there that have no ideawho's Jeff Garden.

SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
So um and kind of like Steve did, uh I'll call
I'll go back because I thinkit's gonna be very relevant for
me in this conversation.
Um, yes, I'm in real estate, andI'll get to that here in a
second, but I actually have a17-year career background in
social work.
My degree is in criminal justicefrom UTSA.
And so I was working for thestate of Texas while I was going
to night school at UTSA.

(05:08):
So I was working at a food stampoffice, I was a case aide, I was
a caseworker, did a Medicaideligibility for the elderly and
disabled for the state of Texas.
Yeah, then I graduate with thisfour-year degree, this magical
piece of paper, and then I get apromotion and I become an
investigator for childprotective services.
Oh, wow.
Doing physical abuse and sexualabuse investigations.
And so that's actually, I feellike it's super relevant, uh,

(05:29):
actually, to I think some of thethings we're gonna talk about
here.

SPEAKER_07 (05:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
And so um, fast forward was a juvenile probation
officer with Bear County formany, many years, and then I
stumbled into real estate.
Um, you know, I guess you couldsay I was between jobs after 17
years of doing this thing.
And, you know, like good oldcountry song says, you know, I
was sick and tired of being sickand tired.
And um, truthfully, uh Iliterally would just pray to God

(05:53):
and be like, hey, like I feellike I'm trapped, I feel like
there's more that I can offer tothis world.
I feel like you've equipped mewith tools, but I don't know
that they're completely beingutilized.
And I need you to send me asign.
And that's what I used to prayabout for about two and a half,
three months while I was quoteunquote in between jobs, right?
Um, and you know, stupid youknow, married, raising the kids

(06:13):
and all that other stuff.
Uh, not panicking.
I was like, you know, it's gonnabe good.
Um, and fast forward, long storyshort, I called a yard sign.
Uh at that time I was looking tobuy a rental home as an
investment property.
Yeah.
And again, long story short, hada really, really um uh uh you
know, lackluster, lackedaisicalconversation with the listing

(06:34):
agent.
And when I got off the phone,I'm like, if she can make the
kind of money I think she makesdoing this, I think I can do it
better.
Yeah, so that's kind of like thequick version of that, right?
And then uh today, you know, uhowning an independent brokerage
uh by the name of RedbrookRealty.
Today, you know, it's it's it'sclose to 200 agents that that I
sponsor and that we have withinthe organization.

(06:54):
Um, have offices in threedifferent areas down in the
Valley, McAllen here in SanAntonio, and also Central Texas,
out by Kleene, Fort Hood, TempleBelton area.
Um, and then also dabble inother things just like everyone
else here at this table withinvestments and other things.

SPEAKER_04 (07:08):
That's right.
That's right.
Uh, and all three gentlemen atthis table, including myself,
are those that practice what wepreach as best that we possibly
can.
Mind you, we are human.
Um, but I think that uh for thisconversation, I want to kick it
off um with honoring uh thefallen Charlie Kirk.

(07:32):
Um, I don't want thisconversation to get political,
which is why we want to keep itto a factual uh and what we've
experienced and what we believeand what we think.
Um, but kicking it off, I've gotthe first prompt here, which is
social media creating theillusion of choice versus

(07:54):
satisfaction.
And I know that that seemsbroad, but at the same time, we
can correlate it to so manyinstances where we believe,
based on what we see, that we'reactually making the choice to
click on this.
We're making the choice that Igot to this page or this post.

(08:16):
Um and in actuality, it's all analgorithm that is feeding us
something that um is doing whatit's doing to our society.
Um does anybody want to startwith that?
Uh, the idea of what socialmedia is doing in your life and

(08:39):
how you've seen the difference.

SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
It's tough.
So I don't know if you noticed,but about five, six, seven years
ago when you'd be scrollingthrough Facebook and there was a
video on there, you'd see thatlittle triangle with the play
button in the center.
Yeah.
It didn't automatically play.
Yeah.
Now when you start thumbingthrough social media, it
automatically plays.
So instead of having thediscretion to choose what you're
being exposed to with athumbnail or reading the prompt

(09:06):
first, now it automaticallyplays.
So for example, theassassination video.

SPEAKER_04 (09:11):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
I saw that like 50 times on Facebook.
I mean, what the hell kind ofworld do you live in where
someone's murder is not onlybeing allowed to be hosted on
this public free space wherechildren, the young children are
on.
Probably not Facebook.
Facebook's more for us oldpeople, but um the way that it
does that is designed to takeyour discretion away from you.

(09:33):
It it really is almost anon-consenting exposure to
information and traumaticinformation, it gets more
clicks, it gets more traffic, itgets more views.
And so they gear thesealgorithms to purposely put
inflammatory information infront of you to trigger an
engagement, whether it's a like,a comment, or an argument.

(09:54):
And um I personally believe thatthere is a darker motive behind
that.
Um and I can't prove it, so I'mnot gonna elaborate.

SPEAKER_04 (10:04):
Well, well, you you saying that uh darker motive,
okay.
I'm gonna play devil's advocateto say what if it was not an
intentional darker motive, whatif it was something that evolved
into that based on what theyoriginally set up, which was we

(10:24):
need to capture their attention.
We're gonna create thisalgorithm to continue to get
their attention, get theirbuy-in, get their uh uh time,
essentially, because that's whatit's doing when we jump on
social media.
You're either spending your timescrolling.
Um now, mind you, there's plentyof instances where you've got

(10:48):
80% of the next generation thatgets their news from social
media.

SPEAKER_07 (10:53):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:54):
Don't trust uh media outlets, which who can at this
point, right?

SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Absolutely no justifying it.

SPEAKER_04 (11:01):
But is this a better alternative?
You know?

SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
Well, I hear I hear what you're saying, but and I
would be aligned to give moreconsideration to the devil's
advocacy if it wasn't for thefact that if you look at the
pattern of content that istypically pushed, yeah.
I mean, I could go on my socialmedia right now, I guarantee you
there's probably some some deathvideos, there's some angry

(11:27):
political commentary, there isopposing ideologies being put
out there.
And if you go into the comments,you will see the fights, you'll
just see nonstop fighting.
And I think that along the waythey figured out psychologically
that human beings are addictedto tragedy, they're addicted to
trauma, they want the trainwreck, they want, you know,
there's a reason why people getinto car accidents when there's

(11:48):
a car accident on the road.
They want to see what's goingon.
And unfortunately, you know,being positive, being happy,
being motivated, being outwardlycaring and like genuine, that
doesn't really elicitengagement.

SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
That doesn't like, oh man, Steve, I'm so happy to
hear you're happy.

SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Right.
No, but oh man, I don't agreewith what you said.
That that draws people in forsome reason.
And it's really easy to beangry.
It's really easy to be negative,it's real easy to be frustrated.
And so I think that it servesthe laziest of human emotions
that are the easiest to elicit.

SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
I I I don't disagree with that at all.
I don't disagree with that atall.
What are you guys' thoughts onthis?
This this first little prompt.

SPEAKER_05 (12:32):
You know, my thoughts uh are I think back to
my grandmother who lived to be100 that said, Show me your
friends and I'll tell you whoyou are before you had social
media.

SPEAKER_04 (12:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (12:40):
So what we were talking about is the idea of
influence.
Who had influence with us?
And now you can be at home aloneand have a tremendous amount of
influence.
You can have conversations thatare coming in that are
influencing the way that youthink, the way that you feel, if

(13:02):
you're not centered.
And so from my perspective, I'vegot to begin with do I know who
I am?
Do I know what I'm about?
Do I know what my values are?
Do I have a crystal clear visionfor what I love and what I hate,
what is important to me and whatis not important to me.

(13:24):
And when I turned my life overto God 36 years ago, I gave up
on my own thoughts and feelings,and I said, I need to dig into
what's important to him.

SPEAKER_07 (13:33):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (13:34):
So getting rooted and grounded in his character,
his nature, what's important tohim, life, freedom, helping,
serving, giving, forgiving.
There's a a list of attributesthat are either encouraged and
facilitated by conversations, orthey are hindered and mocked and

(13:58):
looked down upon.
So for my perspective and theway that I talk to my kids is if
you if you know who you are,you're gonna stand a better
chance at being able to discernis this an influence that I
want, uh, or is it not?
Do do I can I see the smoke?

(14:19):
Can I see through the BS and go,okay, how do I call something
crap without calling the personcrap?
Yeah, and the character to havethe ability to understand if I
knew this guy's history, how hewas raised, how he was molested,

(14:41):
how he was beaten, how he wasmade fun of.
I could see the history that Godsaw with that guy, I wouldn't be
pissed off at him at all.
I'd be broken for the guy.
Like, God dang, dude.
You know, no wonder you'reshowing up that way.
So when God says, you know,judge not lest you be judged,
it's because he sees thehistory.
I don't see the history, I justsee the way somebody's showing
up.
So to be able to lean into thatand to discern for myself, um,

(15:07):
uh you know, around my mind islike two big bodyguards.
You know, my head's like theclub, it's like and it's like
you ain't on the list.
Yeah, you ain't on the list.
This BS, you ain't on the list.
But when there is somethingthat's edifying or encouraging,
then I let that in on the list.
So I I want to wrap up withthat, but I want to say one
thing that I've talked to mysons about in particular is I

(15:28):
said, you know, when when when Iwas younger, if I wanted a car,
if there was something I wasafter, it was a goal, it was a
pursuit, and I knew how I wouldfeel when I achieved or
accomplished and got to that.
And then I was able to worktowards that.
Now you can want your Porsche,you can want your lamo,
whatever, and all you have to dois go like this, and you
instantly have the feeling.

SPEAKER_06 (15:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (15:49):
You have the feeling like you have it, even though
you're sitting in the basementplaying video games with Doritos
in your belly button.
You feel like you've achievedwhat you haven't accomplished.
That's right.
You know what I'm saying?
And so the the uh the subtle thesubtle sorcery behind making a
man feel like he hasaccomplished something when he

(16:11):
has not, right, is uh is verydeceptive, and I think it can
throw people off track.
So I mean it's it's a uhpotentially wonderful tool for
learning and growing, yeah, butit also has the capacity to
incapacitate the hearts and themotive of men who are easily
swayed.

SPEAKER_04 (16:30):
Absolutely.
Before I move on to Jeff, I havea question for you.
Yeah, because you mentionedknowing who you are before
anything, and we've got ayounger generation that are not
getting the human interactionlike we got growing up.

(16:52):
Come home when the lights comeon type concept.
Do you feel or believe thatsocial media, media, internet is
actually shaping who they thinkthey are?

SPEAKER_05 (17:07):
Well, I think it's unequivocal.
It is absolutely because it'sinfluence.
Influence in the past wasrelationship.
So you had multi-generationalinfluence and leadership when
the family was together.
Right.
You had grandpa, you hadgrandma, you had the family was
together, and there wasmulti-generational wisdom and
impartation and direction.
But more than that, there wasmodeling.

(17:28):
Now, for a lot of us, a lot ofit wasn't great modeling, you
know, you have to do analcoholic phase and the hating
phase and the crazy phase.
And I mean, you know, uh uh someis a blessing and some is a
lesson.
You got to know what to discern.
But there was impartation andinfluence when there was
engagement.
And you break down the family,and then you break down, then
the kids have their own groupsof individual, and now you have

(17:50):
broken families and the kidscoming together and wanting to
get their sense of identity andconnection and community from
one another in that brokennesswhich created gangs and other
things.
Sure.
And now you don't even have toleave your freaking bedroom to
feel like you're part ofsomething, even though you're
not.
So I think it is 100% shaping.

(18:12):
A kid, take a thousand kids outthere today, and you show me one
kid who says, Screw this phone,I want to go get some ice cream
with my buddies, and I want tojust go freaking for a bike
ride.
They don't maybe three or four.

SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Yeah, they don't even ride bikes, they're on
electric scooters now, man.
They don't like I saw this kiduphill just chilling.

SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
I was like, like, yeah, I would have been dying
when I was a kid experiencingthis, and here they are just but
then again, would you?

SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
Because you wouldn't know any better.
Oh, I mean, I would have beenstuck to a padded.
I have to sympathize with themto a certain extent because
until they have a parent, afriend that they actually
believe in and trust, um, amentor, a true mentor, not
somebody that is, I'm yourmentor, but I'm not doing it for

(18:59):
the purposes of bettering you.
I want to look good for myself,etc.
Do they actually know thatthat's even happening?

SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
No, not at all.
They're completely oblivious toit.
And I think that that's one ofthe biggest problems is that so
many parents try to supplementtheir children's boredom with
something to keep them frombeing bored.
And what they don't realize isthe thing that made us all
brilliant adults is the factthat we were really bored
children.
We had to go out and explore, wehad to go out and problem solve
on our own.

(19:27):
We had to learn how to navigatethrough relationships with one
another without, and sometimesit went to blows, you know.
Like, I mean, I can't tell youhow many times I'd go out with
my friends and someone would endup in a fist fight.
And then we went home togetherand we smiled and we laughed
about our black eyes and our ourbusted lips, you know, and we
learned how to face to facecommunicate with one another, to

(19:50):
connect on a personal level.
And you know, when you're whenyou're when you're on the
internet, man, you don't see theother person's faces.
So you don't see what you saidto them and how it reacts or how
it makes them react.
Like if I said something mean toyou right now, you don't have to
say a word.
I can watch your visceralreaction, I can see what I just
did.
And I forget who it was thattold me this story.

(20:12):
Oh, it was uh JJ Garena.
Um, we were talking about, andhe was like, you know, I
remember when I was younger,like I was kind of a bully, you
know?
And I remember I picked on thisone kid one day and I saw his
face after I did it, and I feltso horrible.
And it was a really impactfulstory to me because I was picked
on as a kid, so I know what itfelt like to be on the receiving
end of it, but to hear someonethat was on the other side

(20:35):
saying what they experiencedwhen they saw that, like, oh,
and the internet doesn't giveyou that, you don't get a
purview into the other person,and so it can really allow you
to kind of dehumanize yourconversations with people, it
takes away empathy or umcompassion for one another, and
it really starts feeding intothe ego where it's like I have

(20:58):
this really strong inert desireto be right, yeah, and I don't
care how it makes you feelbecause I am in a pursuit of
being right.
And I think that that, you know,again, the removal of the human
interaction from humaninteraction is that unspoken
language, that body language,that we're not we're not getting

(21:18):
that input anymore.
And I think that that reallycontributes to a lot of the
psychosis and the hysteria thatwe see on social media is that I
don't care how it makes you feelbecause I'm never gonna get any
sense of guilt from seeing yourpain.
I am I am without harm in thatsituation.
I didn't do anything wrong.
When in reality, my words mayhave driven you to tears, they

(21:40):
may have driven you into adepression.
It may I could have just ruinedyour week for all I know.
And eventually, as you startbecoming more and more distant
from that perception, it canevolve into something really
ugly.
Yeah.
Now it's not just, oh, I'm notunaware of it.

(22:00):
Now it's I want this.
I want to hurt you.
I want to see you in pain.
And that's where we get uh itgets ugly there.

SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
And I'm gonna give you something to think about,
then I'm gonna go to Jeff.
Do you think that that is whywords have become violence?
Pause there.
Jeff, what are your thoughts onthis, bad boy?

SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
So the two things that we kind of have have
addressed right now was first ofall, like, you know, what is
social media today, right?
And so I think we're also justfor everyone that's listening, I
feel like we're gonna echo oneanother, but we're gonna I'm
gonna play devil's advocate thiswhole time.
And we're gonna eloquently kindof rewrap what we're saying in
different words, uh, which isreally good, I think, for the
for the listening audience,right?

(22:43):
And so hopefully someone canlearn from this, someone can
just look inside, you know, asthis conversation goes on.
But ultimately, first andforemost, social media to me is
a lot of things, but I but it'sa tool.
It's it's it's a tool.
It is a tool, it's a tool, it'sa tool, right?
Um, and the the the the problembecomes that any good, useful

(23:03):
tool can be used for good.

SPEAKER_04 (23:05):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
And any you know, functional tool can potentially
be used for harm, right?
And so it's a tool thatdepending on who you are, how
you think, what you believe in,or if you don't have any
beliefs, um is is a tool thatyou're you're repurposing to
justify how you want to use it,right?

(23:27):
Okay, um, so then the secondpart becomes like um, do we
believe that social media is um,I think you said uh sculpting or
molding, uh molding, right?
Reshaping, yeah.
Uh shaping, you know, oursociety, shaping the users or
whatever.
Um, 100% agree with that, youknow, kind of as Steve was
alluding to.

(23:48):
But I would take it a differentdirection and say not only is it
shaping, it is exposingeveryone.
Is exposed.
That's right.
It is exposing everyone who has,in my opinion, a moral compass.
You might have one, I might haveone.
They may not be the same, right?

(24:09):
But we have one.
Okay.
And so I'm not saying my moralcompass is the only compass.
I'm not, it's not what I'msaying.
But what I'm saying is like it'sexposing whether or not you have
uh an inner an inner truth, amoral compass.
It's expos like a baseline.
Yeah, it's exposing whether ornot you have a a North Star, a
guiding light, right?
Um, and for those who enter intothe world of social media as a

(24:33):
user, right?
Then if you walk into it with noNorth Star, then you are now
easily going to run into a notonly a rabbit hole, but a dark
trap.
Um, because now you became umyou know the the the consumer of

(24:57):
it, right?
And so um for me it it's reallyrevealing is is is what it is
right now, uh, based on today'ssituations and and things that
are going on currently in ourworld.
Uh, but again, I guess the lastthing I would mention is that
when I mentioned that it'sexposing, it's exposing whether
or not you had a you weregrounded.

(25:18):
It's exposing whether or not youhad decency before you entered
the platform.
It's exposing whether or not youknew how to eloquently use your
words or not.
It's exposing whether or not youeven understand that your wards
can cut and that your wards canbe very damning and very harmful
if you've never had that abilityto speak your mind before.

(25:40):
And I'm gonna take it one stepfurther and tell you um, it's
also exposing if people wereheld accountable in their life
for the things that they saidand believed in, right?
And so um to draw a picture, andthis is gonna sound really

(26:04):
corny, but I don't think it is,because I was thinking about it
right now as as the guys weregoing, it's almost like social
media is is this donut shop,okay?
And you walk into this donutshop, and some of us might be
predisposed to die to diabetes,sure, right?
Sure, but because I it I I canhave whatever I want when I walk
into this donut shop.

(26:24):
If I don't have self-control, ifI don't have the proper
knowledge, if I'm not educatedabout myself and where my vices
could take me, yeah, then thatdonut shop could kill me, in a
sense, right?
That's correct.
Yeah, I agree.
Let's just say I'm very healthconscious or or I've had some
health issues and now I'm nowI'm in tune, right?

(26:45):
And now I'm taking my healthmore serious.
Walking into the donut shop isnot gonna change me.
That's right.
And walking into the donut shopdoes not mean that I'm gonna
have 27 donuts for lunch today,you know, and and have a blood
sugar spike that could drop me,right?
And so, so for the listeners whoare like, what in the world are
these guys saying?
I'm saying social media is adonut shop, and you need to know
how many donuts you'd be willingto eat.

(27:06):
That's right.
I mean, I know that sounds verysimple, but that's how I see it,
you know?

SPEAKER_04 (27:10):
Yeah, and and at this point in time in the
conversation, people areprobably wondering that are
listening, why does this matter?
We're realtors, we're lenders.
And to that, I say if socialmedia can shape and mold how the
younger generation, and I'mgonna go as far as to say the

(27:31):
older generation, people of ourage, um we're not old.
Yeah, we're getting better.
Yeah, um, how do you not thinkthat it does not change and
affect that the way that theyview our market, our real estate
market, buying a home, uh, beinga homeowner?

(27:51):
All of those things areessentially being programmed
based on what they want to beput in front of us.
And and it's reshaping andskewing how things actually are.
Example, you've got interestrates that the Fed uh could make

(28:16):
a cut today, they could not,etc.
But you've got everybody onthere that believes because when
the Fed makes a cut in rates,it's going to affect mortgage
rates.
That in itself is not accurate.
But social media, because wehave seen so many posts that
coincide with the dates of theannouncements, and realtors,

(28:38):
lenders trying to capturebusiness will use that.
Now you talk to a consumer thatdoesn't know any better, they're
going, yeah, the Fed just cutrates.
That that means your rates arelower, right?
And that's not accurate.
But that in itself, as small asthat that example is, is showing

(28:58):
how they're viewing the world,the the their community in this
illusion make-believe world, istheir reality, which, true or
not, in my opinion, um, it isaffecting our industry.

(29:23):
It's affecting every industry,and taking that further.
Um, now moving on to this nextpiece, and and and I want to
talk about this, could get alittle tough, but it's back to
what you were talking about andthe idea of the normalization of
violence, the normalization ofwhat we see.

(29:46):
Um example, I I watched a videoum of a gentleman that um
basically came out and said thatwas something we were never
supposed to see as humans.
We we just were Not supposed tosee that.
But yet, like you were saying,you can jump on your feed and

(30:06):
it's everywhere.
Not only was it a a paynon-paywall to see something
like that, but it was refreshedand refreshed and refreshed and
refined and refined and sloweddown.
And it's like, whoa.
There, there's no emotionalattachment to seeing something

(30:26):
like that.
That if we were to see that inperson, there's no way you can't
tell me that it would affect.
And I don't not just talkingabout that situation, just in
general.
There's no way you can't tell methat your life would not be
changed one way or anothermoving forward.
Um what are y'all's thoughts onthe normalization of these

(30:50):
things?

SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
Well, I truly believe we're in the midst of a
spiritual battle right now.
Um, and so I believe that theenemy is using these types of
tools to desensitize people, todehumanize people.
Um, you know, Satan works incorruption and deception.
He's his job is to destroy.
He he can't create anything, hecan only destroy, taint, and
harm.

(31:12):
And I truly believe the reasonwhy I'm more rooted in thinking
that it's a dark motivationbehind it all is because what
easier way for him to accomplishhis objectives?
Before he had to go out and seekus out as individuals, he had to
find us in the world, he had tosend his demons after us, he had
to really work to get us.
Now there's a consolidated placewhere he doesn't have to work to

(31:33):
get us there.
People are so addicted to socialmedia and so addicted to their
phones that they're willinglystepping into this arena and
being exposed to really horriblestuff.
I mean, you have to really likeyou should see my algorithm now.
My algorithm's dope.
Like I got like nothing but goodstuff going on.
My algorithm, man.
Like my Instagram, my Facebook,all of them.
Like, I have had tointentionally teach them to

(31:55):
provide me the type of contentthat I want to be exposed to
because I don't want to see thedeath.
I don't want to see thedestruction.
You know, y'all know me.
I used to be real into politics.
I was real big for like, comeon, let's fight.
Like, I am in for this, let'sgo.
Um, and I saw how it personallyhardened me.
I saw what it did to me.
It it allowed me to bring thisevil into my heart that is not

(32:19):
organically existing inside ofme.
I was taking what I was seeingfrom outside sources and
internalizing it, becoming hurtby it, even though it didn't
happen to me directly, and thenreacting in a manner that was
aggressive, confrontational, youknow, just nothing positive was
coming as a result of that.
And so having gone througheverything I've experienced,

(32:42):
being on the other side of thecancel culture, having you know,
death threats sent to my home,having to sleep on my freaking
couch with a shotgun and a riflejust because I wasn't sure if
someone that texted me myaddress today was actually going
to show up or not.
You know, um it it putssomething in me.
Like I even get like, like evennow, like I had to take a deep
breath just because it's like Iget mad when I think about it.

(33:03):
But what I realize is thatthat's just one of the enemy's
attacks, man.
That's all it is.
Because if he can get into yourheart in that way, you're not
talking to God.
You're not praying, you're notrooting yourself in something
good, you're not chasing aftersomething holy.
You are trying to enact arighteous vengeance, you're
trying to get even, you'retrying to get revenge.

(33:23):
It's like I want to make you payfor what you did to me.
I am now a victim.
My ego is really pissed offabout that, and now I'm gonna go
punish everybody.
And it's a really easy pitfallto fall into.
I mean, it got me in.
I'm a really smart guy, I'mpretty emotionally centered.
I'm I I would say I'm aboveaverage on intellect, and it
hooked me deep and hard.

(33:45):
And having gone through that andthen having my heart reshaped
and changed, it really kind ofchanged the way that I looked at
things.
And that's why recently I'vebeen so vocally advocating for
we cannot react with hatred, wecannot react with anger, we
cannot react with contempt, wecannot react with judgment,
because we will become the verything that we are unpleased by

(34:09):
seeing in the world right now.
We'll become the very peoplethat celebrate someone losing
their job, for example.
I see a lot of conservativesright now that are just giddy
with delight seeing peoplelosing their jobs.
And I lost my job when I had mystuff.
For for those that don't know, Iwent into the Capitol on January
6th.
I was one of the Capitol riotersthat got in trouble for all
that, completely destroyed mylife, and here I am rebuilt now.

SPEAKER_04 (34:32):
And so just to be clear, everybody, he did not
have uh dress.
No, I did not have a bigburnout.

SPEAKER_01 (34:39):
I was wearing clothes.
It was very cold that day.
Like that dude is crazy.
I don't know how he pulled thatoff, but yeah, um but you know
that it that was such animpactful event in my life.
It was one of the majormilestone events in my life, and
it changed me for the worse fora long time.
And it wasn't until Isurrendered my life over to
Jesus that it actually startedto turn around and then the

(35:01):
inertia started coming, and thenall of a sudden, you know, I
back in the day I would havenever talked about this
publicly.
Like I would have gone out of myway to avoid anybody knowing
about what had happened.
Today I use it as like a proudstory that I boast on because so
much good has come out of that,but it was only because I made
the personal decision to takeaccountability for my actions,

(35:23):
to do some self-reflection andlook at myself in the mirror,
stop with the negativeself-talk.
You know, a dear friend of mine,she's my sixth-grade science
teacher, used to just harass menonstop.
Like, you got to stop being sobad to yourself, you got to stop
being so mean to yourself, yougot to stop talking down to
yourself because you'redestroying yourself and doing
that.
And she actually challenged me.

(35:43):
She was like, I want you to wakeup every morning and I want you
to look at the mirror and I wantyou to tell yourself I love you.
I want you to look at yourselfand say, I love you.
And I want you to think of acouple of things about yourself
that you love about yourself,and it has to be real, it has to
mean something, and then I wantyou to go do it.
And in that process, I was like,huh, you know what, Matt, you
are pretty funny, dude.
Like, yeah, and you're smarttoo.

(36:04):
Like you know when to deliver itand when not to.
And sometimes you do it when youknow not to, also, because
you're you're pretty funny, youknow, and damn good looking.
And well, you know, you said it,not me, man.
But um, it's the beard.

SPEAKER_04 (36:16):
I'm comfortable with my skin.

SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Hey, I am too.
You're a very handsome man aswell, Mark.
But um, I guess the point ofthat all is that what I see
happening on social media ispeople, it's I don't see it as
much of a donut shop as more ofa lake full of fish, and there's
a lot of people at its edgesthat are fishing from the edges.
There's boats that are out therethat are hunting for the big

(36:37):
fish.
And unfortunately, I lovefishing, but in this analogy,
and I love donuts.

SPEAKER_07 (36:42):
Well, okay, all right, all right, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
But in my analogy, the the people that are fishing
are not um well intended.
You know, these are people thatare trying to pull us out of our
sphere and out of our space andtrying to remove us from the
water and trying to take us ontotheir boat for their own use.
And I don't want to see that.

SPEAKER_04 (37:01):
Yeah, and you made a good point there that I want to
come back to, and I I wrote itdown here.

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Uh Jeff, let me jump in real quick.
So, you you know, basicallyyou're saying, hey, you know,
are we being desensitized,right?
Is this is what we're seeing andwhat we have access to um, you
know, having an impact on us?
And again, I I can do y'allremember, and when I feel like
we're right at the right tablewith the right folks, because
generationally speaking, do youremember back in the day,

(37:28):
whatever that was, right, forus?
Okay, back in the day, nowthat's kind of date us.
Do you remember the most stoic,stern, hardened, beloved
professionals in our societywere medical professionals, law
enforcement professionals,military professionals, and or

(37:51):
potential social work types thatdealt with the worst of the
worst?
Yes.
Okay and you remember, like, yougo over to your buddy's house
and like his dad was real cold,and you'd be like, hey bro, like
what's up with your dad?
And he's like, Oh man, he was inthe military.
Or you'd go to your buddy'shouse and the the mom, I don't

(38:11):
know, maybe she was a lawenforcement, like, hey, why is
your mom like like hardcore likethat?
You know, like what's what's upwith her?
Oh bro, she she's aninvestigator uh with with with
the police department orwhatever, right?
And so what I'm getting at isthat those are the groups that
come to my mind as we're havingthis conversation over the last
30, 40, 50 plus years of peoplewho, in essence, knowingly

(38:32):
signed up to see the things theysaw in their day-to-day.
And I'm gonna use I'm gonnaexactly and I'm gonna use a
quick example personally, okay?
So um recently I was at an eventout of state business deal,
mastermind, if you will, and Igot to, you know, having a cigar
with a gentleman, and he he wasuh, you know, prior military,

(38:54):
and we started talking a littlebit about his PTSD journey,
which it was I I felt blessed tohave that conversation because a
lot of people don't open upabout that.
And and it just happened, it wasright there in my lap, and we
just started having aconversation.
Then he asked me, What did whatdid you do?
And obviously, the today answeris real estate, right?
Obviously, but I went back and Iwas like, Well, back in the day,
this is actually what I used todo, and I always thought I was

(39:15):
gonna do that all of my life.
He's like, How long did you doit?
And I told him, and then when Itold him the whole like child
protective thing, he was like,Hold on, you were an
investigator with CPS in Texas,and I'm like, Yeah, down in San
Antonio.
And he was just and and thiscaught me off guard.
And it's going, I'm going to getinto a point.
So go for it.
He was like, he was like, and Iwouldn't, I never have taught
thought of myself like this, buthe he said, You did physical

(39:38):
abuse and sexual abuseinvestigations, and I'm like,
Yeah.
And he was like, You must haveseen the worst.
And I'm like, I have seen thedevil.
I have personally, yeah, in inthat work that I did, okay.
And he is like, Man, thank youfor your service.
And that caught me so off guard,and I'm like, girl, I I didn't I

(40:01):
didn't serve.
He goes, You're so mistaken.
He was like, the shit that I sawon the battlefield, you just
happened to see it in the urbanbattlefield.
Yeah, and it hit me, this wasjust a few months ago.
Wow, and I've never had thatperspective of like, holy crap.

(40:22):
And so then he goes on to askme, because obviously this guy's
been through a ton of counselingand therapy and things, right?
And and I have a background incounseling and therapy and
psychology and sociology, etc.
Right, and and he's like, Whenyou were doing that job, were
you overbearing andover-protective of your kids?

(40:43):
And I said, Yeah.
He goes, Were you super edgy inyour house, like with your
spouse, and like to like anotherdegree to where like your kids
felt like you were, for lack ofa better word, like suffocating
them.

SPEAKER_04 (40:59):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (40:59):
And I'm like, Yeah, if you were to ask my older
children who are adults today,sure, like I've apologized to
them.
Like, I'm sorry that you gotthat version of a dad, but no
one was teaching me this wasshit, this was 23, 24 years ago.
Yeah, no one was telling me,Jeff, like, hey, bro, like what

(41:20):
you saw today, you should havenever seen.
And what you saw today willalways be in the back of your
mind or the front lobe, I don'tknow.
And you're gonna see yourchildren differently, and you're
gonna see the world differently.
So, what I'm getting at, and I'mjust trying to tell a story
here.
I think I think it's superimportant, yep, is what people
don't realize is that A, we madea big mistake.

(41:42):
And I know I'm gonna datemyself, and I know I'm gonna
sound like a fuddy duddy andlike an like an idiot to some
people who are listening tothat, which is okay.
We made a mistake as a societyallowing things like um Grand
Theft Auto to be acceptable 20years ago, where like you could
get points if like you carjackedsomebody.

SPEAKER_04 (42:02):
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:02):
And if you did like if you if if you committed a
sexual assault on somebody on afreaking video game 20 years
ago, okay.
And so what I kind of want to doto kind of close this loop for
me is that fast forward to today2025 shit, we're already in
2026.
I know we all think we'realready it's 2026, right?
And so what I what I need totell, what I feel compelled to

(42:25):
say is that someone who'slistening who maybe hasn't had
this retrospect or perspectiveor or or or thought on it is
this if you were never, if younever signed up to be an
emergency room doctor, uh amedical professional telling
people that they had nine monthsleft to live, if you didn't sign

(42:46):
up to counsel somebody who wasraped all over their life by
their family member, if youdidn't sign up to go, you know,
have a have a beat you know onthe streets and and protect the
neighborhoods and see gunviolence and see drive-by
shootings and see assaults, etcetera, et cetera.
And if you didn't sign up to bein the military knowing that you
could pay the ultimate price andalso be in battle, right?

(43:08):
And many, many parts from fromfrom a lot of large part of your
life, you're not equipped to seeit.
Correct.
Correct.
And everybody in the world whowould have never signed up for
those professions, not becausethey're soft and not because
like they're not, they can'ttake it.
We weren't designed to see thatshit.

(43:29):
That's right.
We were not designed to see thatshit, and so kind of going back
to my it's exposing things, it'sexposing how desensitized we
already are.
Like it shook me seeing thatvideo, and it still bothers me
today.

(43:50):
And you're absolutely right.
All I was doing was jumping onsocial media.
That's right.
I wasn't asking to see what Isaw.
Yep, I didn't have a two-secondbuffer to make that decision for
me.
So, what I would say to peoplewho are triggered warning.
Yeah, yeah, trigger warning.

SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
Sort of like, hey, you're about to watch someone
lose their lights.

SPEAKER_02 (44:09):
So it's and mind you, that's hardened Jeff.
Amen.
Bro, like uh I mean, I I couldtell you some horror stories.
Think about CPS 20 years ago inSan Antonio, yeah.
All the kids being starved, allthe kids being chained to their
beds here in San Antonio.
Like, I was in that shit.
Yeah, I saw it firsthand, it'snot good, and that's when I

(44:31):
personally realized there islight and there is dark.
Yeah, and and and I could takethe most um, I don't, I don't
I'm gonna use my words wisely, Icould take someone who
vehemently disagrees with myperspective on life, and I could
put him in my CPS sexual abuseinvestigator shoes for one hour.

(44:54):
And I can promise you, if theycould see what I saw for one
hour, they would walk away andtell themselves there is light
and there is dark.
And I'll leave it at that forfor now.
Okay, but I think everyoneunderstands what I'm saying, but
I'm but I'm trying to appeal tosomeone who's listening who
doesn't want to go down the roadof faith and religion.

(45:19):
I'm just going down the road ofenergy.
Yeah, there is evil and there isgood, and again, last but not
least, we are in a very, veryprecarious moment, a very, very
huge fork in the road, and we'dbetter wake the fuck up.

(45:40):
Excuse my French, don't butultimately if you are
desensitized to that and you cansee that and have no reaction,
man, uh you you you you you areexactly what the the the dark is
looking for, right?

(46:01):
Because you no longer have anyreac emotion to that.
Absolutely.
So I'll sit up there.

SPEAKER_04 (46:06):
So switching gears a little bit, um, because we've
been talking negative aboutsocial media as a whole, and I
want to bring to light um just aconcept and let us talk about it
for a moment.
Whereas many would see, becausefree speech, I believe in free
speech, okay?

(46:27):
Um obviously there areconsequences for what we say,
there there are uh uhrepercussions, uh, there are
people that could be hurt bywords, etc.
But there's also a bigger astime progressed, social media
was introduced, all of thesedifferent platforms were

(46:49):
introduced.
One may say, well, wouldn't yousee that as the great equalizer?
Why?
Because before that we had one,two, three outlets of media that
was supposed to be giving us thenews, the facts, the the the the
true facts.
And and obviously there's no wayfor us to know, but if we were

(47:14):
to uh take social media away,we're back to those same couple
of outlets where we get ournews.
We're either reading it or we'regetting it from CNN, radio
television, radio televisionthat's exactly correct,
newspaper, and I think and I dobelieve this, that if there were

(47:35):
not the social media outlet thathad been created, the different
platforms where we could shareand consume different uh topics,
different views, we would reallyonly have those to rely on.
And as we've seen, those have anagenda.

(47:58):
Definitely have an agenda.
So would you would any of youlike to shed any uh opinions on
the concept of it being anequalizer for the share of
information?
I'm not saying good information,bad information, but
information.

(48:19):
Um because as you can you jumpon X, you'll get real uh news,
real current events thathappened before the media gets
it and puts their spin on it,you're getting it raw from the
source.
Uh this just happened.
Bang, I'm putting it on.
Well, I don't need to go to themedia.
I saw what he said, the typeconcept.

(48:44):
Do you guys think that that isfor the greater good over what
it does negatively to us inshaping what we do in that?

SPEAKER_05 (48:58):
You know, my thoughts are I think Jeff nailed
it earlier, it's a tool.
You know, it's a tool.
A gun in the hand of a righteousguy can make stuff happen.
A gun in the hand of an evil guycan make stuff happen.
I think there's an opportunityavailable for confusion and
sensory overload when you havethat many platforms.

(49:21):
Because if I was to break itdown to going way back, and when
I say way back, I'm talkinglet's just start with Garden of
Eden.
Okay.
There's a model, and here's themodel.
There's a family, here's what wedo, there are children, here's
what mom and dad do.
And there were generations ofpeople who flowed with what

(49:41):
their families did, and thendifferent families had all
different professions, and andthat kind of stayed in the
family.
And then you have the model ofJesus, who I think it for me,
everything, all theconversations boil down to what
can I do today?
I'm always thinking, what can Ido today?
That can be done so that it'snot a conversation of
frustration or uh you know, youjust what's the conclusion?

(50:06):
What can I do today?
Right to make a difference.
And Jesus said it, follow me.
He taught and he did, and hesaid, Follow me.
And then Paul comes along, andof course, Paul's crazy, killing
Christian, doing all kinds ofstuff, and he's like, bro, back
off.
I got something for you.
And then Paul says, not God,Paul says, follow me as I follow

(50:30):
him.
And so there's this, there'sthis uh age-old model of
patterning one's life aroundthose around them, whether
consciously or unconsciously.
I mean, like I said, most of usare raised in households where

(50:50):
there was things we shouldn'thave seen, there are things that
shouldn't have done.
Our parents are doing the bestthey could with what they knew,
and you know, we were deal withthe cards that we had.
Grow from what happened to megrowing up, not my fault.
What I do with it from thispoint forward, a thousand
percent my fault.
Yes.
Okay.
So when I look at what's changedwith social media, what I look
at now is, and it's been said athousand times, but God, I loved

(51:13):
the first time I heard it.
I thought, that's powerful, isthat don't compare your behind
the scenes to somebody else'shighlight reels.
Yeah.
Because nobody's on there going,Me and my wife just got into a
hellacious fight, man.
I just called her a bitch andshe called me an asshole, and I
said that's fair, and we, youknow, scream.
Not normally.
Yeah, you know what?

(51:34):
It's not on my algorithmic.
It's probably because my phonesays you got enough of that
going on in your real life.
Okay.
So the the point that I make isthat when I look at as a whole
what what is available, I lookat the next generation no longer
getting models or examples ormentors or people.

(51:57):
You that's Dave.
Oh, Dave's into cars.
Like, yeah, yeah, Dave, that'sBobby's daddy, Dave.
Like, he's in the car.
I might want to get into cars.
Right.
Hey, this guy's a fireman.
This guy's freaking cool, youknow.
He's going, and then uh I'm I'mspeaking specifically for males.
Okay, so let me just make thatreal clear.
For guys seeing someone thatthey respect, that they could

(52:18):
emulate, where they could say, Ithink I could see myself doing
that.
There was a limit around who yousocially interacted with.
Sure.
Social, real world, socialmedia, bullshit, electronic
stuff.
Now it doesn't mean that it'sfake, but it means now kids are

(52:39):
exposed to so much and thecomparisons are such that
without a real relationship or amodel, um, I see it creating a
lot of confusion and a lot ofstress.
And that's why we have guys likeyou guys, you know, Jeff running
his brokerages, he's modelingthis is how you take care of

(53:01):
people.
This is how you can use thegifts that God gave you to serve
other people and make an income.
And 200 plus people are like,got it.
We're gonna okay, show us thatway.
It's it's one thing to teach,it's another thing to impart,
right?
And to model.
And so when we when we look atwhat's happening with young
people these days, my job is Iwant to be a guy that if a kid

(53:26):
meets on the streets or outthere or somewhere, he's like,
ah, I like this guy.
You know, the the the my sons,my four sons, you know, and
three daughters, but my foursons in particular, they're
their friends love hanging outbecause like your ass is gonna
get in the cold plunge.
Yeah, you're gonna get in thesauna.
Yeah, it's I'm gonna wrestleyou.

(53:46):
You don't have fucking forearmsto have one, you know.
And and they're just likethey're jacked, they just get
excited because they go likethere's a real interaction going
on here that makes me want to bemore than I currently am.

SPEAKER_02 (53:57):
They're built to crave that masculinity.
That's right.
You just crave it.
We are built to crave it.

SPEAKER_05 (54:05):
Yes, exactly, because that's the model, right?
I think that's the model thatGod set up.
So when we look at everything,you've never experienced it
before.
Yeah.
Well, what what what is that?
Yeah, well, and and I think theinability to develop, like you
guys were talking about earlier,if you can't articulate what
you're thinking and what you'refeeling to even communicate

(54:26):
that, you don't even know how toenter into a relationship like
that.
So I accept the responsibilityas a man of saying I'm
intentional about living in sucha way that can be attractive to
young men who are lost and whoare out there on their own, or
even older men who are justlike, I'm very successful, but
my life is still crap and I'mnot happy.

(54:48):
What does that look like?
And that's not a here-to-hear.
That's a here-to-hear thing.
It's just saying, I've got highmiles, man.
And so I might have somefailures and mistakes that can
help you, but I'm intentionalabout conversations.
I'm intentional about waking upand calling out of men what is
inside of them so that you havean alternative to it.

(55:08):
Because I think with absentfathers and broken families and
kids on social media, a personcan literally be locked up in
the room for years and not evenlearn how to communicate with
people.

SPEAKER_02 (55:21):
Steve, you you mentioned uh sensory overload,
what was one of the first thingsyou mentioned.
And I think that's super, super,super uh powerful and important
to mention, which is like, youknow, anybody listening to this,
I would ask you like literally,can you find peace in silence?
Can you drive to your workplaceand turn off all your phone
notifications?

(55:41):
Maybe perhaps turn off all themusic.
I know we can like tap into somegood music and energy and stuff
like that, but I'm just saying,like, can you just be in your
thought, right?
And there are a lot of people,and I'll just say Americans who
can't because they're they theyhave they've been conditioned
over the last 20 to 30 years atleast to be able to say, How am

(56:04):
I supposed to think today?
And they go look for someone totell them how to think.
That's right.
So what so anybody listening tothis, like I would just say,
like, think to yourself, are youstrong in your own right?
Can you stand in your own shoes?
Can you be still in silence?
And can you find peace and calmwith nothing happening?

(56:24):
Yeah, right.
And I think that will help somepeople get maybe re-centered,
right?
Like, you know, I'm not I don'tthink anybody's here at this
table is saying our way is thebest aware that we're perfect.
Not at all.
I don't think anybody's sayingthat.
So I don't I hope no one everyou know there you go.
Well, according to you, you'rethe you're the best looking.
So that's what that's what wethink with this.
Yeah, um, but ultimately, likeit there is a deep psychological

(56:47):
programming, deprogramming,sensitizing, desensitizing.
There's a lot of thingshappening right now if we're not
willing to actually call it forwhat it is.
So um, I have a lot of friends,uh, and I I call them friends
and brothers and sisters whohave extremely different views
on a lot of things.
But man, I was just talking to acouple of of important ones

(57:10):
recently.
Like, I'm still gonna love them.
It's still gonna be safe todisagree.
And sometimes the conclusion iswe are going to agree to
disagree, but we're gonna hug itout when it's over.
And those are the kind of peopleI'm okay being around.
And I and I yearn that because Iknow I don't I don't want, and I
and I don't think anybody hereat this table wants to be around

(57:30):
a bunch of people who areprogrammed just the way you are.
That's right.
No, I've been made better.
I I've seen more worldview, Isee more color by seeing certain
things through your lens, right?
And so I I I was gonna mention,I think that we're in a world
today, and I I think y'all will,this is a good one.
We are we are programmed to beplaying this zero-sum game.

(57:52):
It's all or nothing.
Yeah, and it's not all ornothing.
I I I might lean conservative oncertain things, I might agree
with uh a liberal policy or two.
I might same here.
I might, you know, think certainRepublican things make sense.
I might think a couple ofDemocratic things thinks that
like you know, like it's okay.
And you know, um, someonerecently I was talking to, they

(58:15):
were just like, you know what?
I think most of us, whether wewe and I I don't think we want
to admit it, which I that's whyI'm mentioning it.
I think most of us play, like ifwe're looking at a football
field, right?
And we're looking at the linesand the yard lines and the end
zones, most of us probably allplay very similar and believe
very similar between the 20-yardline and the other 20-yard line.
Where we differ is really thatlast 20 yards on how to get the

(58:39):
ball into the end zone on eachside.
Yep, because it though that'swhere the nuance comes in,
that's where the upbringingcomes in, that's where the
socioeconomic input comes in,that's where the um who my
friends are comes in, where mystation in life at that moment,
what my vices in life might beat that moment.
Would you shake those last 20yards?

SPEAKER_04 (58:56):
Would you say that that is where humanity ends and
ideology begins?

SPEAKER_02 (59:03):
It could be.
I I think that might also bewhere independent thought
begins.
Okay, because maybe we have, andand I don't know that I'm
necessarily mean what I'm aboutto say in terms of the term, but
maybe we have group thoughtbetween 20 and 20 yards, yeah.
And where we really start toidentify this is the Steve
Collins approach.

(59:23):
It's it's it's from that 20 tothe end zone.
Yeah, I'm gonna take my familyto the pylon over here.
Yeah, I'm gonna guide my me andmy wife are gonna have a
relationship that gets me a posthere, you know, or whatever the
case, you know, I'm using afootball analogy, right?
Yeah, you know, so I don't know.
I I would say that's the 20s tothe end zone is where the
independence comes.
And if you were not a part ofmaybe some general consensus,

(59:48):
then you might be running a playthat no one quite understands.
Because I mean you're wrong,right?
But it that's where maybethere's some very varying
differing outcomes.

SPEAKER_04 (59:57):
Yes, yes, and and and I also

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:06):
You know, if I was to just give you the the lenses
that I put on when I taught thisMonday to a group and I I
anything that I uh take to heartis probably come from Jesus.
Okay, because this is my this ismy um That's your ultimate
mentor that's my that's mybaseline for uh truth and not

(01:00:29):
and uh and he addressed all thisstuff years ago and he said you
know watch out for wolf insheep's clothing.
Okay, well what does that tellme?
A person can look one way andnot be that way.
And he said, here's how you'regonna know them.
I'm gonna tell you how to knowthem.
You can know them by the fruitthey produce.
An apple tree is not gonnaproduce oranges, a banana tree
is not gonna produce you know,uh lemons.

(01:00:51):
A tree will produce fruit.
And then it goes on in Galatiansto talk about okay, what is that
fruit?
Okay, nine love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,
gentleness, faithfulness, andself-control.
These are fruits of someoneconnected to God.
Okay.
So regardless of what this guysays or does or what's going on,

(01:01:13):
I'm I'm a freaking fruitinspector.
I am inspecting fruit for properdiscernment.
What is being produced out ofwhat they're saying?
What is being produced out ofwhat they're doing?
First, evaluating me, what fruitam I producing so that I can
discern myself rightly.
And Jeff and I were jokingearlier, you know, a compliment
his wife gave him.
And I go, that's how I know whena guy is really doing well, when

(01:01:35):
his wife says he's doing well.
Yeah, because she ain't gonnalie.
Right.
It's usually the oppositesometimes.
Uh yeah, my wife is gifted intelling me where I'm in here.
Who listened to this?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:44):
So that the conversation was about my
beautiful wife telling me thatshe's noticed over the last few
years that I have mastered, orwhatever that is, self-control.
And that I've mastered notreacting, not being reactive,
not being reactionary andreactive.
And she's like, and and likeagain, like what Steve was
saying, if my wife has seen it,then it's clear because that's
that's well, she knows you thebest.

(01:02:06):
She would know me the best 100%.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:07):
Reactionary is her number one charge against me.
But the the point is that I'mmaking when when we are in this
season of life that we findourselves in, I have found that
as a believer, the ultimatediscernment for me, the ultimate
litmus test is what is beingproduced in this man's life.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:27):
What is the fruit in this person's life?
Because you can talk crap aboutpeople, but if you pay
attention, you can see what'sbeing produced.
And and and I try to do my bestto keep it as simple as
possible.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:40):
Yeah.
Um, and I think what you'retalking about there is a higher
level of EQ in the sense thatyou're aware that you used to
react a certain way, and now,given your experience, given
your situations that you'vetaken place, and maybe some of
the reactions went well, mostprobably didn't, just like

(01:03:03):
myself, because I was the sameway.
And I think it's inherent inthat um drive.
We we've got a drive and and wewant control, and we know that
if we do things this way, it'sgonna work.
If we do it that way, oh I'vebeen down that road.
So we react.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:20):
When you got to move fast, too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:21):
Correct.
And at a certain point, similar,and I would imagine you guys are
are getting that too, as we runbusinesses and we uh lead
people, and we have to empathizeand sympathize, and all of the
different situations that we gothrough on a daily basis, we
start being able to go, okay,stop.

(01:03:43):
Let me think, let me let me letme digest this, let me filter
this through what my experiencesin the past, whereas the
reaction that was inherent.
It's something that we do, butbeing able to control yourself,
uh that's not it's not easy.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:01):
No, can I tell you one thing that'll bless you
guys?
I hope my wife told me this theother day.
She said, I've noticed you'vestarted to pause, and that's the
grace of God.
And she goes, Do you know whatpause stands for?
I know, but I can't wait for youto tell me.
Postpone action until serenityenters.
I like that.
There you go.
Like, hold on, well, maybe letme take some notes on that.

(01:04:24):
Say that again.
You're like, I'm putting that ona t-shirt.
Postpone action until serenityenters.
And I'm like, that's that'sintense.
So I don't have theself-discipline for that pause.
I prayed and asked God to giveme the grace for that clause.
Yeah, that pause.
And and because I am quick toreact, and I've asked for that.
God, if you just gave me acouple of seconds to be master

(01:04:47):
sit food, you know, S T F U, Ihave discovered, man, that my
life goes great when I shut theup.
That's right.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:55):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:56):
Especially at home.
I speak for a living, I shut upto make a life.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:59):
Yep, you know, it's just different.
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:02):
So here I am now, uh, with this grace to pause.
Yeah.
Um and I think it's made all thedifference in the world.
And I think, Jeff, it comes outof what you're talking about.
When you start to look atdeveloping a discipline of quiet
time, getting quiet, gettingalone, just shutting the prayer,

(01:05:24):
talking to God, meditationwithout sounding woo-woo, being
quiet and listening.
Whether that's a walk in nature,a walk around the block, whether
that's just sitting down andbeing still and feeling the
breeze.
As as as I have gotten in touchwith that quiet time, you have
an opportunity to begin toreflect.

(01:05:45):
Because I think it was uhSocrates or Aristotle said the
unexamined life is not worthliving.
You know, you have to have timeto pause and look at ourselves
and say, okay, how did that go?
Yeah.
Did that go well?
Did that not go well?
And evaluate.
But once again, it boils down.
The whole conversation alwaysboils down to what can Steve
Collins do today to make adifference?

(01:06:06):
Because it's it's easy to beoverwhelmed with all the things
that need to happen and shouldhappen, and we want to make an
impact and a difference.
Yeah.
And it's like the old starfishstory, you know, like there's
millions of them on the shore.
Son, you're never gonna make adifference.
He throws it that made adifference for that one.
That's right.
You know, if if I can make adifference in one person's life
today, then I'm gonna be atpeace with that.

(01:06:27):
Because I saw that model.
I saw, hey, we got 5,000 peopleto feed.
Jesus, what do you got?
Got a couple fish, man.
A couple loaves of buttercrest.
That's basically it.
Give it to me.
And so if I can be faithful withwhat little I have today,
trusting that he can multiplythat and make an impact.
The difference is being resignedto I can't do anything, this

(01:06:48):
world sucks.
Yes, versus saying, I I am goingto do what I can do and trust
God for the results.
I think that's a great marchingorder for men.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:57):
Absolutely.
And and I want to, before we endit, I want to give you guys an
opportunity to bring a topicthat that we haven't discussed.
Um, but before we do, I want tocircle back to what Jeff and you
you kind of capped off there isthe idea of being with yourself,
being with your own thoughts,being with um your own decisions
that you've made that day.

(01:07:19):
I started to do that a whileback.
Uh, matter of fact, on the carride home.
And it was just I got in the carand my it was going so fast, and
we deal with so much on a dailybasis that's just thrown at us.
Not saying any more or less thananyone else out there.
I'm just saying what I gothrough.

(01:07:40):
And it was 20 minutes later, Igot home and I went, oh shit, I
didn't touch my phone, I didn'tturn on the radio, didn't listen
to a podcast.
I just reflected, talked tomyself and realized what took
place today.
And you know what?

(01:08:02):
I actually came to some solidconclusions by the time I pulled
up in my driveway.
Now I have to have that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:10):
Real quick, please.
I'm gonna take over real quick.
Yes, because I would like toknow which every what what
version of that is is true foreverybody at this table.
So mine is my morning drive.
My morning drive for me, forself, for Jeff is my most
powerful.
Um so I'll either listen tosomething that will put me in a
in the right mood, or I'll turnit off so I can think about

(01:08:33):
okay, what am I doing this week?
What happened yesterday?
What do I what am I in charge oftoday?
What am I responsible for?
Who needs me to show up today?
What's my energy like?
Am I wearing my emotions on mysleeve?
That kind of thing, right?
So it's a lot, it's a deepself-reflection.
Uh the other version for thatfor me is when I take showers.
Yeah.
It's a shower shower thing.
Shower thoughts, maybe.
Yeah, shower thoughts areimportant, right?

(01:08:54):
You know, um, and then the otherone is um any time that I am
typically away from like Texascoast and US, yes, is when I'm I
don't want to say vacation, butwhen my feet are on the sand
near water, uh typically aMexican destination or Dominican

(01:09:18):
or something.
Um, but I have had some of mymost profound understandings in
those moments of solitude.
And I don't even think peopletoday even yearn solitude.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:33):
And so that those are mine.
I just I'm curious.
What are what are y'all's?
Where where where does you wheredo you get that moment?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:39):
So I've been thinking on this thought since
you talked about sitting in andsilence and how people are
incapable of doing that and theyrun to their phones.
Um, and then marked their wordout there that affirmed what it
was that was going on.
And he said, you know,reflection.
And my thought that I was havingis that when we sit in that
stillness and that silence, it'slike sitting in front of a

(01:10:00):
mirror.
And it's a mirror that God'sholding up for us.
And I think the reason why somany people run to their phone
or run to porn or run towhatever it is that they run to
when they're in that stillnessis because they are terrified of
what they are about to look atwhen they look in that mirror.
They are aware that there arethings that they are wearing on
them that they should not bewearing, that they are doing

(01:10:22):
things they shouldn't be doing,they're behaving in ways they
shouldn't be behaving, they'reeither doing things that they
shouldn't do or not doing thingsthat they should do.
And when you sit in thatstillness, you don't have a
whole lot to do other thanself-reflect.
Or, you know, I guess you couldbe, you know, make it outwardly
and like, oh, woe is me.
I'm a victim, I hate this, Ihate that.

(01:10:44):
But for me personally, when Isit in silence, and that's what
I do in the morning.
So the first thing I do, I walkout of my room, I go out and I
sit on my back porch.
I've got a beautiful backyard,I've I've curated it to be
exactly what I want it to be.
And that's my little peaceplace, you know, that's my slice
of heaven.
And I just sit there for 10, 15minutes and I just don't allow
any conscious thoughts to comeinto my head.
I just sit there and letwhatever naturally makes its way

(01:11:06):
in, in, I think on it, I ponderon it, I pray on it.
Um, some mornings I put onworship music, other mornings I
just leave it completely silent.
But um, you know, what I'vediscovered is that in sitting
with myself in silence, I'velearned how to be a more patient
man.
I've learned how to be morecompassionate towards other
people.
I've learned how to look atmyself with love while

(01:11:28):
critiquing myself and lookingfor areas of opportunity.
You know, like we know wherewe're slacking, we know where
we're not doing enough, we knowwhere we're not showing up.
And oftentimes we distractourselves so we don't have to
think about that.
And I think that again, it feedsback into the whole social media
and you know, dopamine hits thatyou get from social media, you
get addicted to it, and then allof a sudden you just want to

(01:11:49):
feel good.
You don't want to hold yourselfaccountable.
I don't want to look at myselfin the mirror and pull my shirt
up and be like, oh God, I gottaI need to diet and get to the
gym, you know?
Like and so a lot of timespeople will just put a bag of
your shirt on.
People will just wear somethingso that you don't see it, and so
you don't see it, and so youdon't see it.
And even though I'm carrying itaround with me, I get to pretend

(01:12:10):
to the world like it doesn'texist.
And it's so self-defeating andso self-destroying, you know.
And and when you sit in thatstillness, you really start to
learn about your character, youstart to learn about your
morals, you start to learn aboutwho you are, and it's so easy to
get lost in that, especiallywhen you give access to sources
that aren't aren't supposed tobe there, like what you were

(01:12:32):
talking about, how you know,before the internet, we had to
find our mentors, we had to findour guides, we had to apply
discernment towards thefriendships that we nurtured and
fostered.
And we also had to break awayfrom people that weren't serving
our commonalities.
And now, and this is why I'msuch a big advocate against

(01:12:52):
children having cell phonesunder the age of 16.
I just don't think childrenshould have access to the
internet at all because you'renot giving that child access to
the internet, you're giving theworld access to your child.
You're giving all of theseinfluences, all of these
ideologies, all of thesethoughts, all of these things
that I would what I would wagewar if someone tried to bring
some of this crap into my home.

(01:13:12):
Like I would literally likestomp heads.
Like it would be violent ifsomebody tried to enter my home
with a lot of this stuff thatthe world is selling as truth
and new perspective and all thisother stuff.
Like I would go to war ifsomeone tried to reach my
threshold with that.
Yet the society freely givestheir children access to all of

(01:13:33):
that and gives all of thesepeople access to their children.
And unfortunately, there arepredators out there.
There are people in the worldwho are evil in their hearts
that seek to destroy, thatlavish in destruction.
And you know, and our childrenare our most valued resource,
and people don't even thinkabout this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:52):
They think, oh, I'll put parental controls on, oh,
oh, I'm gonna look at theirphones and I'm gonna read their
messages with their friends, andI'm gonna find it's no, like
Matt.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:01):
It's not two young children, and I had never
thought of that.
Now, mind you, we don't give ourchildren the access like you're
talking about.
My daughter has the Apple Watch,and it's only to be able to talk
to us.
That's it.
Um, 11 years old, and I hadnever you saying it, I know
that's there.
There's I I get exactly whatyou're saying.

(01:14:22):
It's there, but you saying itlike you just did, that hit me
at home.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:27):
Well, that's and you're the protector, you're the
provider, you're the provisiondeliverer, you know.
It all comes from God, but youare tasked with that
responsibility to protect this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:36):
And it goes back to the the the I I think this is an
ideology of like parents overthe years and over the decades
wanting to be their kids'friends.
I'm I told my I've told my kidssince day one, I'm not your
friend.
That's right.
I I want to have you as an adultchild, and I want to enjoy uh a
vacation with you as an adult.
I want to enjoy a Vegas show andfive-star dinner with you as an

(01:15:01):
adult.
I want to have that moment, butit ain't gonna be because we're
friends, it's gonna be becausewe have such a bond that no one
can ever even truly describe itbecause it's our bond and and
and and it's not a friend bond.
And I think so many people overthe last 20, 30 years decided to
say, you know what, I'm gonnastart parenting very soft, and

(01:15:22):
I'm and I'm gonna go the way ofleast resistance, and I don't
want my kid to be upset.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:28):
And I think that came from the broken families as
an overcompensation for theother partner not being there to
not wanting to not break thekids.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:35):
But real quick, what where's yours, Ann?
And where's yours?
Because I want it one.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:37):
Mine's real simple.
It is, and it's once again, it'sthe Jesus model.
I mean, you just read it and itsaid, and he got up early and
went on his own to pray as washis custom.
This is what he did.
It's I get filled up so I canpour out.
It's real simple for me.
So it's been a pattern for yearsand years and years, and it
evolved since I started doingstuff at home.

(01:15:59):
So that's half an hour in thesauna every morning.
And it is either it's eitherworship and I'm flying in the
heavens, and the half an hourgoes by, and I just have that
connection, which is really whatI'm after.
I'd rather do stuff with God andhis presence than for him any
day.
And yet there's times I just sitdown and I have a silly prayer
that I love.
I I get in there and I say,okay, it's a new day.

(01:16:21):
I want to be the guitar, you beStevie Ravon.
I want to be the drums, you beNeil Purt.
I want to be the the trumpet,you be Dizzy Gillespie.
Just use me to do what you wantto do, to touch lives you want
to touch.
I say, here I am.
Send me.
Business is not important to me.

(01:16:43):
Finances are necessary.
I was redeemed in the statehospital for a purpose greater
than success.
And that is to do in ForrestGump's voice, to do whatever you
tell me to do, Joe Sargent.
I'm I'm signed up and I want todo it.
So I set myself apart in themornings during that time.

(01:17:04):
It is a half an hour everymorning to just get quiet, get
alone.
Uh, that's my reflection time.
And then my other reflectiontime is when I blow it.
I say or do something stupid asshit.
Typically with my wife.
My wife, my life works greataround other people, but it's
just with my wife that I juststruggle.
That's where my testing groundis.

(01:17:25):
And so when I do that, insteadof just stewing off, I'll go,
I'll get alone again and I'll belike, okay, what woke up in me?
Because she can't make me mad.
She doesn't make me angry, shedoesn't take me off.
She said or did something thatactivated something in me, the
disturbances in me.
So what is that in me that I canask God to bring to light that I

(01:17:48):
can expose to him and ask him totake away so I don't repeat that
pattern?
So it's preparation in themorning in sauna, or it is as
soon as I get my ass handed tome from my own behavior, I go to
the principal room by myself.
Yeah.
And I go, okay, let me getcorrection here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:06):
So mine, um, like I said, it started in the car, uh,
on my drives, on my way to theoffice, on my way to somewhere.
I'm the guy that's bumping thathard rap.
I'm that guy that that's that'shitting some rock music, uh,
some good country, what haveyou.
But I need to mentally preparemyself to be the best I can be.

(01:18:30):
And it music is that on the wayhome after the day, whatever day
it is, it's in silence.
It's in silence so that I candigest what took place, remember
some of the conversations thathad taken place, um, and be able
to give the day a theme, a a aum, what did you learn today,

(01:18:54):
Mark?
What what what happened that wasa milestone?
What are you grateful for today?
Um, that that is my time.
Now, since I would say about twoweeks ago, we just got a sauna,
and now I give myself anotheropportunity to have that 20 to
30 minutes of sitting there insilence.

(01:19:14):
You're watching your sweat comedown, and each of those drops
for some reason sparks anotherinstance that took place that
boom, now now my head is downthat road, and it's okay.
I allow myself to go down thoseroads when the sauna's over,
boom, okay.
Step out, and I don't know ifany of you guys jump in the
sauna, but as soon as you getout of the sauna, woo, it's a

(01:19:37):
little chilly.
Um, that's when that ends.
It's it's kind of like back toreality, right?
Okay, I'm back.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:42):
You need a cold plunge.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:43):
Yeah, I cold plunge.
Back and forth.
Oh, I dude.
Yeah.
So one thing I just want topoint out.
Um, as I was preparing to behere, because obviously I think
we're all preparers, and I thinkwe all think okay, we went.
Yeah, you no one no one wants tosit here and sound stupid and
sound sound like a fool for tensof thousands or hundreds of
thousands of people to dowhatever they're gonna do.

(01:20:04):
Yeah, millions.
Yeah, that one this one's goingviral for sure.
But you know, there's acommonality, and every I think
everything that we justresponded to in that little
impromptu question, and it waspart of my preparation, which
was I was doing some researchand I ran across somebody who
was talking about certain thingsthat are happening in today's
world, right?
And they were like, let me justput it simple.

(01:20:24):
There are there are twodifferent people in the world
who have two different missionsin life daily.
There's the one who, when theywake up, they want to feel good
all day long, and then there'sthe other one who wakes up and
all they want to do is do goodall day long.
Love it, and you know, likebecause I I'm sitting here and

(01:20:45):
and I'm kind of uh forecasting alittle bit.
I think it would be easy andsimple-minded, closed-minded, to
be quite honest, for someone tolisten to this and see this,
because we all are connected topretty much everybody in the
real estate space here in town.
I mean, let's let's just callit, let's just be real, okay?

(01:21:06):
And it it takes a brave personfor us to be able to sit here
and share these intimatethoughts about how we see the
world, right?
Um, I would hope no one judgesus, but at the end of the day,
um, it would be of a simple mindto say, like, oh, of course
those guys went together, likethey're all they're all
Republicans or they're allconservatives.

(01:21:28):
They're all you know Biblethumpers.
Like, no, like if that's ifthat's how you see it, first of
all, I'm just gonna tell youstraight up, I love you, but
you're wrong.
But the other part is no, like,if if someone really wants to
extract the goodness of thisconversation, I think we're all
saying, let's just wake up, begood, and do good.

(01:21:50):
And on our worst day, becausewe've all had them, and when
we're imperfect, because we areall imperfect, we're not gonna
act like we're not, we're gonnatake responsibility and
accountability for thatimperfection, dust ourselves off
and and and and and try to dogood again.
That's right.
And and and I believe that at asimple but yet high-level
approach, that's the calling.

(01:22:10):
That's right.
That's the calling.
I I mean, if we're if we were toif I had to explain what being a
good person is to a secondgrader, it's trying to do good.
And when you don't, trying torecoup and do it again.
That's right.
That's looking the mirror.
That's it, you know.
So, and so I don't know.
I just felt compelled to saythat.
I don't know what impressioncoming out of me right now.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:28):
No, I do, I appreciate that.
And and I'm glad that youmentioned that piece.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:33):
Um, because, like you said, it is easy for someone
on looking to say, of course, ofcourse.
Um, but at the same time,whoever that person out there
is, I invite you to come on inhere and have a conversation
with me.
Um, you would believe and thoseout there that have

(01:22:54):
conversations with me that thinkdifferently than I do, you know
already that I'm veryopen-minded.
I will sit there and listen.
I will be passionate about myviews as well.
But at the end of the day, rightat 1111.

(01:23:15):
All right.
So, um, guys, we had a briefintermission there.
Um, and this discussion has notonly been enlightening, but it
has been heartwarming to hearothers that go through quite a
bit on a daily basis.
And I'm not saying one isgreater than another.

(01:23:37):
Uh, I'm just saying goes throughlife.
We're out there doing this.
We utilize social media as ourtool.
Um, we absolutely show to thepublic what we want them to see.
We have a good understanding ofthat.
Um, I think it takes a strongindividual to be able to know

(01:23:58):
themselves, Steve.
Um, and after everything thatwe've discussed in here today,
the good, the bad, and the ugly,uh there is plenty of good that
can come of this discussion.
Now, one can take what they wantfrom it, um, but I'm hoping that

(01:24:21):
maybe they take a couple of tipsand pointers from this next
little uh last segment, which ishow do we move forward?
What what can we do to safeguardourselves from the
misinformation, the thenegativity, the picking aside,

(01:24:43):
um, because I I'll be honestwith you guys, I am so sick and
tired of seeing right versusleft when in fact we are all
human.
Um I at least believe that MarkZuckerberg, the the the founder
of s of Facebook that triggeredall this social media kind of

(01:25:04):
stuff, I don't think that he hadbad intentions when when he
created this.
I don't think he thought it wasgonna be this big either.
And utilizing that concept initself, what are some things
that you guys believe thatpeople out there, professionals,

(01:25:24):
kids, uh parents, teachers,mothers, all of them, can do to
protect themselves from beingpulled into an echo chamber,
pulled into a situation to wherewhatever they're seeing has any

(01:25:46):
effect on hate.
Who wants to dive in?

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:55):
That's a deep one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:56):
I know that's a deep one, but yeah, and and and you
know, it is deep to a certainextent because Matt, you
mentioned something thattriggered this, and it was at
the beginning of the thisdiscussion, which was I used to
see all of this stuff on myfeeds, and now I have trained my
algorithm to not show me thatstuff.

(01:26:20):
But you knowingly, willinglywere proactive in having to do
that.
There's no way you were like,hey, social media, stop showing
me this stuff.
No, you had to say, Oh, there'sanother one.
Not today, Satan.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:35):
Well, it was a practice in humility.
Okay, you know, I I had to sitin silence and look in the
mirror.
I had to look at myself in anobjective way, without ego,
without criticism, but just whoam I?
And when I started asking thosequestions, I started not liking

(01:26:55):
some of the things that theanswers were coming out.
You know, it it it made meuncomfortable.
It it stirred something in mewhere I was like, Well, hang on,
like that's not who you are.
Like, you love people, likeyou're an optimistic person.
You're like you're the guy thatpeople turn to when they're
having a bad day that liftstheir spirits, that speaks life

(01:27:17):
into them, that speaksencouragement and prosperity
into them.
What the hell happened to you?
When did you become this angryperson?
When did you become thisspiteful individual that wanted
to see someone be punished?
When like what?
And it like, dude, it like I getemotional thinking about it

(01:27:38):
because like I am a genuinelyhappy person, and to have that
kind of a dark visitor with mewas really something that was
really profound, and um I knewit was something that I didn't
want, and I knew that I had abigger calling, I had something

(01:28:00):
bigger that I was meant for, andit wasn't just professionally,
it wasn't just in my personallife, it was something
spiritual, and I didn't knowwhat that was, and so for me,
the road to redemption startedwith really holding myself
accountable and saying, I don'tlike this, this is true.

(01:28:21):
Other people can see it, even ifyou never saw it before, and I
don't want that for myself, andI want to be a reflection of the
world that I would like to livein around me.
I don't want to be a reaction toit, I would like to facilitate
my wishes in the world by what Ido, how I behave, how I treat
other people, how I speak topeople.

(01:28:43):
And I wasn't nice during thoseyears.
Like I was like overly eager tobe rude to somebody or to seek a
disagreement just so that Icould intellectually best them
and embarrass them in front ofeverybody in the hopes that it
would change their hearts and itwould change their spirits.
And having gone down that roadand taken that approach, I can

(01:29:04):
tell you it doesn't work.
And that's why, and I've gotfriends right now that are super
pissed off, and I have toacknowledge their feelings
because they're very realfeelings that they're feeling.
You know, there's no way you cansee evil and not feel a certain
kind of way, but I knowunequivocally, without a doubt,
the turning to rage, turning toanger, turning to hate, and

(01:29:25):
silencing dissent and not havingconversations.
You know, Charlie Kirk, one ofthe most profound things that
I've heard him say a thousandtimes was when we stop having
conversations about ourdisagreements, violence violence
soon follows.
And unfortunately, we saw theresult of that violence that
happened as a result of it.

(01:29:47):
And um, you know, the world'sforever changed, and that's
about all I have to say in that.
But the last thing I want toleave with, and again, I didn't
want to focus this all aroundCharlie Kirk, but um, one of the
things that He was asked was,you know, how would you want to
be remembered in your life?
And he said that he would liketo be remembered for his courage
and his faith.

(01:30:07):
And I've heard people talk aboutCharlie Kirk, and the biggest
thing that people who knew himintimately talked about is his
faith.
And it got me to kind ofchallenging myself and saying,
well, if I were to die tomorrow,would people be saying the same
things about me?
And outside of my close circleof friends, the answer would be

(01:30:31):
no.
And so that's what I've kind ofextracted from these recent
events is that if that's notwhat people would be saying
about me, then I'm clearly notdoing all that I can and should
be doing.
And I'm going to change that andI have.
And I can't wait to see what thenext year looks like.
2026 is going to be great.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:48):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Yep.
Uh, who who else wants to jumpin there?

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:52):
Steve, I think you something hit you, or I felt it.
You were like, you were ready toto go.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:58):
You know, I I I can boil it down to a three-step
process, I think, which is trustGod, fix your shit, and serve
others.
Period.
That's how can I how can Iadvise someone to protect
themselves, is what you said.

(01:31:18):
Yes, that is correct.
And I think the key is focus onwhat I can change, which is
Steve.
Period.
Not my wife, not my kids,nothing, no circumstances.
And I'm a freaking fixing Steve,I am 1604 and I can right now.

(01:31:40):
Okay, like shit, it's a mess.
People are flicking each otheroff, there's dust, crap.
I mean, I'm under massiveconstruction.
And so what I can do is say,okay, I can work on me.
What does that mean?
That means if my primary purposeis to know God more as best as I

(01:32:03):
can, so that I can do what hecalled me to do, be who he
called me to be.
If that's my pursuit, then thereare resources and relationships
I can intentionally lean into todevelop that in me versus
passively waiting.
So there's two catalysts tomajor human change, and it's

(01:32:27):
inspiration or desperation.
Desperation, you're forced.

SPEAKER_06 (01:32:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:31):
Inspiration, we have some control over.
I can choose who to invite intomy world.
I can choose what to read, whatto study, what to learn, to say.
The most ironic part of mypersonal growth and spiritual
growth and development, the mostironic of personal growth is
that everybody around me is thebeneficiary.
Yeah.

(01:32:52):
I'm not growing for me to belike, I have become this guru.
No, I I become the best versionof myself because that lifts
everybody else up around me.
So Mother Teresa said, You wantto change the world?
Go home and love your family.
So I accept responsibility forme.
I model that and other people.

(01:33:13):
I'm not afraid to have the hardconversations with men and women
and to call bullshit bullshitand to call the good the good.
And and so modeling is onceagain what it boils down to for
me.
Who must I become so that I canI can help others become who

(01:33:34):
they were intended to becomethrough intentional personal
growth and development.
I heard I heard Gary Brecas saythis not long ago.
He said, aging is nothing morethan the aggressive pursuit of
comfort.
I'm 57.
I feel like I'm 21, right?
I'm not in the aggressivepursuit of comfort.
I'm in the aggressive pursuit ofconstantly looking to fail

(01:33:57):
because failure is the metricthat Steve Collins is pushing
the damn limits.
So that I'm not a failure.
And that's not bad.
That is that's my damn limit.
Now time for a new relationship,new resource.
Work on me, trust God while Iwork on me, be in connection
with Him, whatever that lookslike, and then get out of my own

(01:34:20):
head and serve other people.
Call other people up, work withother people, develop other
people.
And that's the impact I can makeis modeling that.
And I think anybody who doesthat themselves focuses on me.
You quit bitching about the restof the world.
It's like, who wants change?
Who wants to change?

(01:34:41):
You know, well, you change.
That's right.
Do the hard work.
And and I want to close likewith what you said before I hand
over to Jeff is we didn't wantto make this about you know
Charlie or political, and it'sand it's not.
I I do want to I think it'simportant that I get to say what
I'm about to say, and that isthis.
Um do you have joy in your life?

(01:35:04):
Do your beliefs and your lifebring you joy?
Do they bring you calm delight?
Do you have the ability to havea conversation with another
human being who believessomething diametrically opposed
to you and still show themcourtesy and kindness and
respect?
If you don't, you're probably afucking problem.

(01:35:28):
Because if you don't care abouta person more than you care
about an issue, you're gonna runinto that wall again and again
and again.
And it's worth examining.
So fight me, oppose me.
I will buy you a taco, I willbuy you donuts, I will do, I
will go have a cigar, we'll havea we can yell, but I'm gonna be
like, God dang, I freaking loveyour passion.

(01:35:48):
Yes, I love your passion,brother, and I can respect you
as a human being, and you canbelieve you should believe
differently than me.
We were raised differently.
That's right.
That is a quality of a personwho actually cares about other
people.
Yes, and I think that that'simportant to cultivate.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:05):
I'd like to add something on to that too,
because while you were talking,I was I've been kind of
pondering this thought.
Um, it's something that uh mypastor, I go to CBC, Pastor Ed
talks about.
Um, sorry.
Um it but it's about the fruitof our trees, and you know, the
thing that he constantly reamson is the fruit of the tree is

(01:36:26):
not for the tree.
The tree does not eat its ownfruit.
Amen.
The fruit of the tree is forthose that pass by it and are
lucky enough to harvest from it,and there's a lot of symbolism,
and it's a deep thought toreally unpack because when you
think about that, we're a tree.
Our our purpose is to grow, tocast shade, to provide shelter,

(01:36:47):
and to bear fruit.
And the fruit's not for us, it'sfor the it's for everybody else.

SPEAKER_05 (01:36:54):
I love it.
And uh this is my formalapology.
I love Jesus and I use sentenceenhancers.
Some people call it blessing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:02):
Debate me.
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:37:04):
So I can wrong you use a we all fall short of the
glory, brother.
Yeah, yeah.
That's good.
Uh, real quick.
So I was at this real powerfulevent uh not too long ago, and
one of the keynote speakers wasa you know, basically saying
there's a bunch of high-poweredpeople in here, right?
You know, I felt like a smallfish, but whatever.
Uh, it was an amazing time andamazing event.
But keynote basically says, hey,you y'all need to realize like,

(01:37:26):
what are you doing forself-serving egotistical
reasons?
And what are you not?
And do you know the difference,right?
And then he went on to talkabout apple trees, don't eat
apples.
You know, they don't.
And and and plum trees don't eatplums, you know, they produce as
many as they can so they canimpact as many as they can,

(01:37:47):
right?
And so to kind of go on whatwhat you were saying, that was
amazing that you just said it,because it just I just heard
something similar to that very,very recently.
So to go to the question, maybeto you know, tie the loop, if
you will, uh, or close the loop,um, you know, what can the the
the modern day family, the theperson, the individual, the the
the the children, teenagers,etc., what can they do in
today's day to protectthemselves and and insulate

(01:38:10):
themselves, right?
Isolate's not it, but insulate,you know, insulate, protect, you
know, protect.
Um couple things came to my mymind as as the gentlemen were
speaking.
Um, and and I have to use anexample.
Um, good friend of mine, verygood friend of mine, says that I
do a very good job of framing uha dialogue, right?
So I'm gonna frame it realquick, right?

(01:38:32):
So, and and this could be like awhole nother podcast and
discussion.
So I don't I don't want to godown that ragged hole, but but
uh and and Steve, you know, andI know this is gonna be near and
dear to you, what what I'm aboutto mention, but I know everyone
will understand this.
The reason that everyone I Imean, I just say everyone, but a
lot of people used to be um veryinterested in watching the the

(01:38:55):
TV show on A E in the early2000s called Intervention was
because we were always waitingfor the last 60 seconds.
And I'm I'm gonna answer, givean answer by framing it by
saying, What can someone dotoday?

(01:39:16):
They can want more, they canwant better.
Another way for me to say itwould be that they can aspire
for more or aspire for better,or they can try to find
aspiration.
That is a word that is veryseldomly used today in our

(01:39:39):
vocabulary, okay?
Um, and what I'm getting at isthat if they want to be more
hateful, they can definitely godown that road.
If they want to be moreproductive, they just need to
decide.
If they want to be more fruitfulin some capacity, they just need

(01:40:00):
to decide.
If they want to make more money,right, which I don't think any
of us wake up saying we wantmore money.
Nope.
Um, I I don't I I know y'all, Ifeel like well, um, but if if
someone wants that, they can getit.
And going back to my um myanalogy of of the TV show,
right?
Intervention, and it goes backto my previous real estate,

(01:40:24):
previous entrepreneur mind,okay, which is the God's honest
truth.
You can want change for somebodyuntil you're blue in the face.
But the the the truth of socialwork, the truth of counseling,
the truth of psychology, id ego,super ego, the truth of all of

(01:40:45):
it is that it's internal, yes,which was why intervention was
such a great show to watch,because most people didn't
understand, they already knewthe outcome.
And it was a it was a simplequestion and a simple answer.
Does he want it for himself?
Yes, and that's when changehappens.

(01:41:05):
I'm sure you could elaborate forhours about this, but it wasn't
until Steve was ready.
Am I telling the lie?

SPEAKER_05 (01:41:13):
This the wanting was seven years, the surrender was
one moment.
I can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:20):
Amen.
You can amen.
So so to go back to this wholesocial media thing, it goes,
it's as simple as this.
And and ties into what you werementioning.
Have self-awareness, audityourself.
Have self-awareness and audityourself.
Audit your social media.
If your algorithm is sending youa bunch of hate speak, it's

(01:41:43):
because you're consuming it.
That's right.
Yep.
That's right.
And if you want more, decide.
And if you want better, decide.
And if you want change, decide.
That's what the person today cando.
Because we're not going to stopthe next version of the
internet.
That's right.
We're not going to stop theApple iPhone 78 turbo on

(01:42:06):
steroids.
Like, that's not going tohappen.
So we had better realize that wehave full control.
And I think that is missing intoday's, in today's society.
I don't think that people wereraised or had an awakening or a
moment or awareness or around orsurrounded by people who will

(01:42:29):
tell them, your destiny in asense is right here.
That's right.
Go do it.
Manipulate the world to get theoutcome you want.
Go mold it so you can get thefinal product that you're
seeking, right?
Um, nobody here speaks victim,not at this table.
No.
Nobody here speaks, you know, uhyou know, woe is me, or it's

(01:42:51):
cloudy with a chance ofmeatballs.
Like nobody does that.
Well, I'm hungry.
There you go.
Now, now have we spoken thatbefore?
Absolutely.
We did.
Yep.
We did.
But thank God there wassomething, someone, somebody,
some energy, some whatever, thatone day we all had our
individual unique awakening,which was you know what, Mark?

(01:43:15):
You're telling Mark.
Mark's telling Mark, shut thefuck up.
Stop counting all that's wrongand start counting all that's
right.
That's right.
I choose.
And I'm gonna choose to continueto amplify that.
Yes, you know, and soultimately, I think my simple
answer is want more or wantbetter and make that decision

(01:43:38):
yours.
Yes.
So even the parents that arelistening, because I have a like
again, extensive social workbackground.
Absolutely.
You gotta make if you'restruggling with your children
right now in your home, whateverage they may be, you have to be
so smart to outsmart them.
You have to be so smart to makeyour child, adolescent, teenager
in distress believe it was theirdecision.

(01:44:01):
That's correct.
Because when it's theirs, theycan own it.
And the same goes for theparent.
That's right.
And when you believe that it wasyours, you're living in it now.
So that said a deeper sosociological psychological
approach on how you do that.
You got to convince yourself.
That's it.
That is it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:19):
Yeah, Jeff, thank you.
Um, Steve, thank you, Matt,thank you.
Um, I want to end with thefollowing.
Uh, and I'm so grateful that yousaid decision.
And uh I believe that in today'sworld, why we are seeing words

(01:44:40):
become the new violence isbecause of the lack of human
experience that is not takingplace where they actually
experience violence to know thedifference between that was a
word that does not hurt sticksand stones, yeah, you know, but
that punch in the mouth surefeels like something like it's a

(01:45:00):
punch in the mouth.
That's right.
Um, but I posted something uh acouple days back, and it wasn't
blood and gore, it wasn't asix-second clip about something
that's gonna grab yourattention, so it didn't go very
far, but now I have theopportunity, and how I believe
that we can, and those that arenot religious, uh this this this

(01:45:23):
pertains to you as well.
And it is the following it is asimple pledge that says, I will
let I will not let anythingelectronic decide who my
neighbor is, I will not letpolitic or political violence
become the norm.
I will no longer let propagandatell me who to hate, and I will

(01:45:43):
never cheer on blood, I willchoose sanity, I will choose
unity, and I will choose to seethe human humanity in the people
before I see their politicalviews.
That's simple.
I love it.
I love it.
And I think that it goes back towhat Jeff said, what Steve said,

(01:46:03):
what Matt said, which is we allhave the power in choice to make
the decision and move forwardaccordingly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:11):
That's what I teach my daughter.
That's right.
There's no rules in my house.
All we have is choices andconsequences, that's right,
actions and reactions.
If we make good choices,typically the consequence is a
good consequence.
It's not always, there's noguarantee, but there's never a
place where those bad choiceswill result in a good
consequence.
Yeah.
And so I've framed it like thatwith her because I want her to

(01:46:34):
know that she has full autonomy.
I don't get to control what shedoes.
She is a free human being who'sgoing to make choices that will
have consequences.
And it is my job to be thearbiter of consequence, good,
bad, or indifferent.
And when you frame it like that,you realize how much power you
really have over the worldaround you.
Yes.
Like you get to decide what thisworld looks like just based on

(01:46:57):
how you look at the world.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:59):
And so many people feel powerless, like, I can't do
anything, I can't do anything.
Well, guess what?
There's good and bad in theworld.
You can find either one.
The good's sometimes a littleharder to find.
The bad normally has a loudervoice and a bigger billboard,
but even though it is the few.
But well, and that's the that'sthe most peculiar thing about
it, is that while it is not theoverwhelming force, it is the

(01:47:20):
loudest noise in the room.
And you know, just that prayervisual I was at the other night,
perfect example.
There was about five people thatwere there that were
disrespectful, that brought hateinto their heart, that were
there specifically to try totrigger a negative reaction from
the crowd.
And there was probably at least,based on my estimates, at least
three to five thousand peoplethat were there.

(01:47:41):
Not a single one of those peopleturned to anger, turned to
hatred, turned to violence.
One of the guys deserves someviolence.
He pushed somebody, and youknow, five years ago, that would
have been, I'll throw you off abalcony for doing that.
Like, but the only thing thecrowd did was they used their
united voice and they stood andthey all shared one message.
This is not gonna happen here.

(01:48:01):
And people need to realize thatthe good vastly outweighs the
bad.
The internet makes it look likethere's bad everywhere.
You know, it's the internet isnothing but a highlight reel.
And if you are so consumed inthe internet that you think that
all of that BS that you'reseeing out there is real, I
encourage you to take off yourshoes, walk outside, touch some
grass, talk to your neighbors,talk to the people around you,

(01:48:24):
do it with an open mind and awilling perspective, and then
come back and tell me what yousee because you're not going to
find all that hatred that youthink you're gonna find.
You will find good people, youwill find great conversations,
you will find charitable spiritsand hearts, you will find people
that are really just enjoyableto be around.
And it's so easy to get caughtup in that minutia and that

(01:48:46):
noise on the internet.
It really is.
And and and I I can speak thisfrom like a PhD doctorate level
because of how my perceptionstowards the world changed and
how badly it destroyed my life.
And take it from me.
You don't want that.
Like if you change yourperspectives and your mindset,
your whole world changes, andthen your fruit changes all of a

(01:49:08):
sudden you start blossoming.

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:09):
That's right.
Um, gentlemen, I want to thankyou um for allowing us into your
lives, allowing us into yourperspective, uh, your thoughts,
uh, your opinions, your beliefs.
Um, for those of you out there,I hope that you get something
out of this, because that is ourintention of continuing to run

(01:49:31):
this podcast, is is not tryingto change you, but hopefully
something that you're seeing uhwill allow you to make different
decisions, uh, see the world alittle bit differently.
And uh if you don't believe inthe conversations we're having
about good outweighing evil, anduh it is contagious one way or

(01:49:57):
another, bringing humor intothis, just watch the Grinch that
stole Christmas until the veryend.
Okay, that's a powerful story initself.
Um, I want to thank you.
Yeah, I want to thank you guysfor joining me.
Um always a great time forallowing us to have the
conversation.
Thank you.
Yeah, guys, as uh I commit toyou, uh I promise we'll continue

(01:50:19):
to bring you conversations thatuh hopefully you can continue to
learn from with other men andwomen and experts around our
community that are willing toshare it with no filter.
Um, so that being said, catchyou on the next one.

SPEAKER_06 (01:50:45):
That's the question.

SPEAKER_04 (01:50:46):
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The Algorithm vs. Humanity - Digital Strings: Who’s Really Pulling Them

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Algorithm vs. Humanity - Digital Strings: Who’s Really Pulling Them