October 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Buyer payments didn’t spiral because people forgot how to shop; they spiraled because the inputs changed overnight. We sit down with builder leader Tommy Fryer to talk candidly about what kept new construction moving when rates doubled—and why transparency beats shiny incentives every time. From the DR Horton headlines to the realities of “payment shock” letters, we lay out how improved taxes, real insurance quotes, and honest monthly numbers safeguard buyers and reputations.
Tommy walks us through the rollercoaster: 2019 optimism, 2020–2021 mania, and the 2023 slowdown that forced everyone to reset. The answer wasn’t gamesmanship. It was forward commitments—rate lock buckets that buy down payments without inflating prices or risking appraisals. That choice to take margin pain instead of hiding costs stabilized affordability, protected backlogs, and kept trades working. We also get into inventory discipline, smarter cycle times, and how to avoid a return to metered chaos that leaves buyers waiting months for a chance to sign.
If you’re an agent or lender, you’ll hear a playbook for true partnership: full 3 percent commissions, Agent Rocks lead sharing, CE, and even builder-provided listings—plus a clear path for outside lenders to serve clients with meaningful closing cost credits. For buyers, especially VA borrowers, we map out the “rent it, then rebuy” strategy that turns relocations into stepping stones and builds long-term wealth through lease offsets and entitlement reuse. The throughline is simple: align around the monthly payment, tell the truth early, and choose programs that help families stay in their homes.
Subscribe for more real talk on mortgages, incentives, and market timing. Share this with a friend who’s considering new construction, and leave a review with your biggest question about buying in a high-rate market.
Key Factors Podcast is Powered by LoanBot.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
And welcome back to another episode of Key Factors
Podcast, Real Estate AF, wherethe AF stands for and finance.
And I'm your host, Mark Jones,and we are powered by Lone Bot,
Smarter Mortgage Matching.
And on our last discussion, um,we had a group of gentlemen in,
uh, all veterans in thebusiness, and we were talking
about builders, builderincentives, um, some
(01:25):
misconceptions that are goingon, and some malpractices that
we believe um should becorrected because of the
fiduciary responsibility we havefor our clients.
Um, and a good friend of minesaw the episode and said, Man,
that was a great discussion, theway that you guys painted that
picture.
Um, and I'd like to add some twocents to it.
(01:46):
So without further ado, I'd liketo introduce Tommy Fryer.
Tommy, how are you?
We're good, brother.
How are you?
Doing well.
Um, so Tommy, you surprisingly,if I'm not mistaken, geez, I am
not looking it up.
I think you got in the businessdamn near the same year as me.
Uh 2012.
SPEAKER_03 (02:04):
Yeah, 2012.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So uh yeah, August of 2012.
I was hanging out at USAA beforethat, trying to figure out what
I was gonna do when I grew up,you know, uh, and then a good
friend of mine was in thebusiness and was like, hey, like
you would do really well, likeface to face uh and go sell some
homes and change your family'strajectory.
And I said, let's go.
That's let's go.
(02:25):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Uh you and I used to do a lot of business back in the
day.
I I was matter of fact, I hadSavemybuilderloan.com, was doing
a lot of turndown business.
Um, so a lot of folks out theremay or may not know who you are.
A lot of realtors watch this,lenders watch this.
So if you could just for amoment, tell us a bit more about
yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (02:45):
Yeah.
Uh so Thomas Fryer, uh beenworking for Meritage Homes for
the last 13 years.
You know, nine and a half ofthose years were on the sales
floor making friendships withknuckleheads like you.
That's right.
And uh a lot of phenomenalrealtors.
Uh, you know, uh Cesar uh fromlast week's episode, near and
dear friend of mine.
Uh so when I saw him on here, Iwas like, all right, all right,
all right, there might be this.
(03:06):
Not only that, but there mightbe some validity to this now.
Um, but yeah, no, been in thebusiness for 13 years, nine and
a half as a uh sales counselorin the last, you know, four and
a half years as the sell one ofthe sales leaders here in San
Antonio.
Yeah.
We have a phenomenal um teamhere with Meritage Homes in San
Antonio and uh just just excitedto be here.
Uh love the industry.
I've loved what what we've beenable to do together.
(03:27):
Um, we're a big believer thatthe the builder relationship and
the uh realtor relationship doesnot have to be adversarial.
I love it.
That we can absolutely partnertogether, and we'll talk about
that a little later about how wewant to partner better with our
realtor partners and our and ourrealtor friends and our and our
lender friends too.
You may know that you know thattoo.
Um but yeah, that's that's alittle bit about me.
(03:49):
Also love long walks on thebeach.
Absolutely.
Love my wife, Lauren.
Hi, absolute love of my life andmy two babies.
Uh the my family, my householdis everything to me, and it's
why we do this crazy thing inthe builder world.
They're my everything.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
That's exactly right.
Well, Tommy, um, not to breakthe ice or have us fall through
the cracks of that polar ice,yeah.
Uh already did that thismorning.
So I want to kick this off.
Uh, matter of fact, JC, if youcould throw up the screen real
quick.
First off, to our listeners, oursubscribers, our folks tuning
(04:27):
in, we are almost at 30,000subscribers.
We're 200 subscribers away.
Um, I'm hoping after thisepisode goes live, we may reach
it.
So thank you all for tuning inand continuing to stay active
with our channel.
Um, we promise to continue tobring you folks like Tommy.
Um, let me kick this over to thefollowing.
(04:50):
So something was brought to myattention um uh besides what we
were going to talk about today,and I wanted to get your
perspective on it.
Sure.
Um, so what we're looking at onscreen is basically an update or
a uh uh uh a quick synopsis ofsomething that is going on right
now.
(05:10):
And and what I mean right now,we're talking October 1st.
What just took place was DRHorton and DHI are under fire
right now for some ummalpractices.
And what those are, matter offact, we touched on them in the
last discussion, which issetting up your borrower on
unimproved taxes um without thembeing aware of that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
Now, mind you, I will uh at least say the
following anytime you close withunimproved taxes, there is a
form that you sign called apayment shock letter.
And I don't care what lender youare, what title company you are,
it's in the closing package.
Whether the borrower reads it,understands it, um, that's a
(05:54):
totally different story.
In my opinion, that conversationshould come from the lender for
sure from day one all the waytill the end, reminding them
what's taking place.
Yeah.
Um, I don't know if they're theonly ones going through
something like that, but I doknow that it is a very, very big
deal.
That being said, what separatesmaritage and the way that you
(06:19):
guys do business from someonelike a D.R.
Horton and uh a parlay DHIconcept, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (06:27):
Right.
And you know, like I'm not, Idon't want to pick on one
particular doctor in the truth.
Just as an example, yeah, as theexample of a lawsuit example.
Yeah, yeah.
Huge, huge lawsuit.
You know, I think in in today'sworld, there's a lot of folks
that are afraid to just behonest and lay out the facts
because they're afraid ofgetting that terrible word no.
That's right.
Like, I'm not gonna buy thishome.
I'm not gonna go with you as mylender, I'm not gonna go with
(06:49):
you as my agent.
But at Meritage, I think whatreally sets ourselves apart, you
know, as far as like ourcustomer care and our and our
service is we're gonna be realwith you.
Yeah.
Like when, and that's my, youknow, myself, my vice president
of sales, finance, all the waydown to our intern, right?
Yeah.
Like our entire sales team isempowered and is expected to
(07:09):
have those legitimateconversations around financing.
So you may not like our answer.
You may really get upset andpotentially walk out of my sales
offices because you don't likethe payment, but it's gonna be
the truth.
SPEAKER_04 (07:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:23):
Like we are gonna be 100% factual.
Where here's your principal,here's your interest, here's
your improved taxes.
Yeah.
We'll work in, you know, youryour homestead in there and any
other, you know, disabled vetsare 100%.
Obviously, then it's anon-issue.
But we're gonna have the realcombo and with a legitimate
homeowner's insurance quote.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
We're gonna be real and incredibly transparent.
Right.
And I think that's where uhother bad actors right now are
not being transparent.
They're basically telling thebuyer what they want to hear,
sure, which is not a greatcourse of business.
And it's it sets all of us upfor failure later because it
taints our reputation too.
Even though we have nothing todo with that builder or with
(08:01):
that lender, it still makes uslook bad.
We get painted with that samebrush.
So that's where that's wherewe're trying to be, and we will
always continue to be truthfuland transparent, even if the
answer isn't uh a popular one.
We're gonna be real.
SPEAKER_02 (08:13):
Okay.
I mean, that's that's makesperfect sense.
And I have to uh uh uh concurwith that.
You talking about painting apicture.
Yeah, I'd like to paint apicture of let's say the last
five years.
Okay, we'll sum it up like fasttrack because let's go 2019.
Sure, me as an outside lender toa builder was still doing
(08:36):
turndowns for several builders.
For sure.
Then 2020 came around, um, shithit the fan, and all of a
sudden, builders don't needoutside lenders anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
And then we fast track towards a couple more
years, and now all of a suddenit's like, hey, you guys uh can
you get this deal done?
For sure.
Now I'm not talking specificallymaritage.
This is just at builders ingeneral.
Sure.
What can you fast track usthrough what has taken place in
the last, let's say, five years?
SPEAKER_03 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So I I go, and it's a reallygood place to start, right?
The let's just call it like sixyears ago.
Let's go to October of 2019.
Yeah, you know, there was a alot of um optimism, a lot of
excitement, especially in Texas,right?
It's a great place to move, uh,to raise a family.
Um, so we're we're expectingreally good solid growth in
2020.
Uh, to your point, when ourin-house lender, you know, shout
(09:28):
out MTH Mortgage, you know, whenour in-house lender couldn't get
the things done, we would becalling Mark.
Yeah.
We'd be calling a handful ofothers.
We knew the portfolio that youcarried as far as uh your
flexibility and underwriting andwhat you were able to do, uh,
your layers.
Um, and and it was always asolid part of our business.
Um 2020, you know, COVID.
(09:48):
Correct.
You know, you started hearingCOVID uh right after, you know,
uh, you know, what January andFebruary really started hitting
mainstream media here.
Uh, then we started doingshutdowns in the beginning to
middle of March.
We thought the world was gonnaend, like, or at least our
business, not there was a lot ofpeople that got hurt by that.
So I don't mean thatdisingenuously at all.
Um, we really thought thebusiness was just gonna freeze.
(10:09):
We were all gonna get stuck inour homes, our apartments, our
our what, our rentals, whatever,and nothing was gonna happen.
Right.
The exact opposite happened.
Absolutely.
Everyone and their mom moved,everyone and their mom at that
moment had just great credit.
They had cash.
So unfortunately, for ourreferral partners or our
turndown partners, uh, we didn'thave a lot of opportunity to
(10:31):
send to you.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
And and and yeah, just to kind of help help that
conversation, just that portionof it.
Yeah, us outside lenders, and Ican speak for all of us that had
a book of business that had agreat reputation, had a good
process, had great products, etcetera.
Yeah, we weren't hurting forbusiness either.
Yeah, you were doing good.
No, you do.
It's not like we were reachingout, hey, we need this turn
(10:53):
down.
No, no, no.
Yeah, no.
Our business was coming in.
Correct.
It was an entire industry boom.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:00):
3% interest rates was what a what an amazing thing
that that did for all of us,right?
Um, you know, and also kind ofgave us a false uh bias on our
abilities too.
And we can talk about thatlater.
Um, but no, you know, so 2020,you know, started off really
scary for the first four months.
Then I remember I was stillselling homes on the floor in
May of 2020.
(11:21):
I think I sold like a like eightor nine homes, which was the
most at my time that time of mycareer.
And I was like, okay, we'regonna be okay.
Yeah.
Uh and I'm a good salescounselor.
The rates definitely helped, butI'm not not gonna lie.
Um, then you go into 2021, samething, wait lists, right?
We're taking, you know, likeliterally as you came in, we
would write, hey, I was onlyallowed to sell five homes in my
(11:41):
neighborhood.
So you're, hey, I'll write youokay.
So it is, you know, May of 2021.
I can put you under contract inJuly.
How does that sound?
I have no idea what the pricingis.
I know how this sounds.
I sound like I'm a crazy person.
I'm a charlatan, maybe.
Yeah.
Uh, there was a lot of wordsthrown in our way at that
moment.
Sure.
Um, and but again, to yourpoint, right?
Y'all were incredibly busy as asuh retail lenders.
(12:03):
Our in-house was very busybecause of our team's business.
Fast forward 2020, we had thecascading effect of interest
rates started creeping up.
Yes.
And then, you know, we reallywere still doing a really good
job.
You know, I think the industrywas still really strong in 2022.
2023, that's where it really gotchallenging.
Absolutely.
And for us, that's where, youknow, y'all were with us during
(12:24):
the great times of 19 and 20.
We still send, you know, uh turndown business.
But in 2023, I can ex, I can sayfor, you know, Meritage as San
Antonio, we wanted to partnerwith our lenders better that had
nothing to do with our in-house.
Sure.
So to this day, you know, we arestill offering.
So in 2023, 2024, 2025, if yousent me a client, right?
(12:46):
You just had to send thatthrough our referral channel,
which is basically me and theother sales leaders in the
division.
And like I'm still gonna giveyou all closing costs, right?
Plus uh a very generous amountof money to buy the rate down to
improve the rate because I wantyou to eat too.
Absolutely.
Because if you're eating andSWBC is eating, all the lenders
are eating, we're winning, andwe're good.
Absolutely.
(13:06):
We're gonna get our capturebecause of our Ford commitment
money.
And I know we'll probably maybetalk about that later.
Um, but you know, we're gonnacapture that business, but I
also need referrals because likethe you know, shocker everyone,
uh, there's no one reallybeating down our doors to walk
in.
So it really takes ourrelationship with our realtors
and their lenders, and I'm notgonna let them, you know, I'm
not gonna like bite the handthat feeds them.
(13:28):
Sure.
So we're gonna go with you andwe're gonna give you uh like
right now$28,000 in closingcosts if you use Mark Jones.
SPEAKER_02 (13:35):
You guys hear that?
That's a big deal.
That's a very big deal.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
We're gonna give that so we can help some cash to
close, and then you can use therest of the money, whatever
makes sense to that client.
Uh, use it to their best of theability, buy the rate down, save
cash, whatever, do a two-one,three-one, buy down, don't care.
Whatever makes sense to yourclient, let's do it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
So in talking about reality, real talk, we know that
the um drought of customers, andI'm not gonna say fully a
drought, the the uh softening?
Softening, yeah.
We'll we'll go with that.
Yeah.
Of customers all around, um,especially builders because of
(14:14):
the price point.
Yeah.
Um this was all due to interestrates immediately, and it was
like a spigot that was on,drinking from it.
Yeah, and then it was likebathing in it.
We're bathing in it.
Yeah, somebody turned it off andwe went, uh, where'd it go?
Where did all the business go?
And that being the case, whatwhat was that like for the
(14:35):
builder at that time?
I mean, you guys have a largeand and just Meritage in
general, but I'm sure a lot ofthe builders are set similar to
where you guys have a lot ofoverhead.
You've got a lot of employees,you've got a lot of operations
staff, including the sales andthe builder side, the projects.
There's just a lot.
A ton of people.
(14:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what was that like goingthrough that at the time?
And that's probably at the timewhen you made transition from
sales to leadership management,right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:05):
Yeah.
What what uh what a crazy timeto make that change.
Managers like, I don't know whatto do.
SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
Yeah, what do we do?
Put Tommy in.
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
Yeah, maybe I don't know.
Um, I mean, honestly, it was ahead spin.
You know, we went from, youknow, like like just like you
said, the the faucet was on, theshower head was on, and we were
raining sales, the storm cloudswere throwing out sales.
Right.
Uh then to really, you know, Ithink we really started feeling
the pinch, you know, March orApril of 23, uh, 2023.
(15:37):
Um, and it really was you had togo into triage mode.
So, number one, everyone's headspinning.
Yes, because like we went fromhero, and I'm not saying zero,
we didn't die, right?
We're still here, still verystrong, still selling a lot of
homes.
Uh, but we had to reevaluate ourexpectations as a leadership
team, but also as a good leader,is you go and seek out the wins
(15:57):
to keep your team motivated.
Yes.
So, okay, we maybe we didn't hitlike what our original plan was,
what we thought we were gonna doin 2023, but we still were very
profitable.
Yeah.
You know, you it you have toessentially your entire
organization has to erase 2020and 2021 out of your mind.
So that's like my greatestrecommendation to any realtor
listening to this, to any loanofficer listening to this, like
(16:20):
erase those years out of yourmind because those were
anomalies.
Yeah.
The amount of business that wewere able to do and and take
across the finish line in 2020and 2021, unheard of.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Carried over.
SPEAKER_03 (16:33):
Carried over, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:34):
Um like an old mentor used to tell me I tucked
away enough acorns.
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
And if you were smart, yes, andif you were financially prudent,
it allowed you to weather thestorm of 23, 24, and 25.
And God willing, you all wereable to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:49):
Um, but yeah, I think I think like, you know,
just re-adjusting expectations,number one, and being real with
senior leadership was is whatevery sales leader had to do.
Yeah.
Be like, hey, if you want me totell you that you we're gonna
sell a thousand units this year,I'll tell that to you.
And then you'll be reallydisappointed on December 31st.
That's right.
Or we can just be real, we canhave a legitimate conversation.
(17:10):
I can show you my whys and I canshow you where the math is
mathing.
Correct.
Um, and and then, you know,we'll go forward from there.
Uh, and then with our salesteam, with our builders, project
managers, uh customer carefolks.
I mean, it's just seeking outwins for them to still feel that
they're doing their part.
Because no one in this businesslikes to lose.
Absolutely.
We're all very competitive.
(17:31):
It's part of our personalitytrait that makes us makes us
successful here.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (17:35):
Uh, so I think that's what, you know, when we
went, when we went through that,and look, we're still going
through it too.
You know, 2024 was balanced,like 2025.
There's been a lot of marketfears.
There's been a lot of fencesitting.
That's right.
Right.
There's a lot of people waitingfor something to change.
Pent up for sure.
Such pent up demand.
Um, so you know, it's it's everyday going out uh and and
(17:55):
celebrating the wins that we canfind.
Yeah.
Uh, and just being a good leaderand and you know, put a kind ear
to the team.
You know, some some of the teammay watch this, some of you may
not.
Uh, you know, some days youthink I'm probably a very
understanding person, and otherdays I'm gonna, you know, get on
your ass for doing somethingwrong, or or maybe not giving me
the uh the energy.
But we always say if you cangive me energy and effort and a
(18:17):
great attitude, we'll findresults somewhere, you know.
So, so that's a that's a bigdeal.
SPEAKER_02 (18:22):
So I'm looking up on screen.
Um what okay, here it is.
So let's see here.
The most recent period wheninterest rates rose quickly was
from March 2022 to July 2023.
Oh, yeah.
And they rose from, let's see,yeah, near zero.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
Yep.
Yeah, near zero to a five and aquarter, five and a half.
SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Yes.
And and what that equated to wasapproximately a three and a
quarter rate all the way up toseven.
Yeah.
It was like, holy cow.
Yeah, is this what our parentsexperienced?
Right.
And it wasn't really becausetheir rates were higher, but at
the same time, our price pointswere higher.
Oh my goodness, it was higher.
(19:08):
Our taxes were higher.
So everyone felt that a lot.
Oh, that huge pen.
Direct, yes, a lot moredirectly.
SPEAKER_03 (19:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Now it wasn't, and you can kill that.
It wasn't but maybe a couple ofmonths, maybe max a year later,
where all of the builders, Idon't know if you guys got
together, but you came up withsomething pretty genius that
hadn't been used in quite sometime, or if ever before.
Yeah.
And it was essentially uhbuilder forwards.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
That's right.
Yeah, forward commitments.
Forward commitments, um, ratelock buckets.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yes.
unknown (19:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
So luckily for the ops team, luckily for the build
for the the contractors that areall the trades, you guys put
your heads together and went,okay, let's put our money where
our mouth is, let's take a riskand we'll buy this block of
rates because it was alwaysyou're gonna buy the first block
and let's hope that we sell itall by the crazy guy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:03):
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
So when you did that, boom, it worked.
It didn't.
You and every other builder onthe streets went all right,
that's how we can continue tosell these homes and give the
customer what they're lookingfor in regards to their payment
comfort, in regards to theiraffordability 100%.
Yes.
And on the last discussion, I'llsay it again.
(20:25):
Yeah, I don't think that that'swrong in any way.
Yeah.
Reason being, and I'll paint thepicture for the folks there.
Uh if we are selling a pre-ownedhome, let's say I'm financing
it, I'm working with a borrowerthat maybe is using down payment
assistance.
Sure.
They've got very little in thebank.
I don't want them to use everypenny.
I love to see my borrowers havesome reserves.
I call it oh shit money.
SPEAKER_03 (20:47):
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Eventually, something's gonna happen.
Absolutely.
That being the case, it would belike us going, hey, seller, we
need more money in closing costsfrom you guys.
You're only willing to do 5,000.
Right.
We need an additional 10.
Right.
So what we're gonna do is we'regonna raise the sales price from
300 to 310.
(21:08):
You guys are now gonna pay15,000 total, and we're gonna
get the deal done.
Borrower is bringing truly zeroto closing.
Right.
The reason why it works isbecause it makes appraised
value.
That's right.
The buyer knows about it, theseller knows about it, all
agents are on board, that'sright, and the and the loan
officer with the builder, sameconcept.
(21:30):
Yeah, you guys are just able toincrease that quite a bit more
simply because the propertyappraises for more.
Right.
Can you explain that concept tous?
Uh I mean, that's that's trulyit in a nutshell, and you don't
have to explain the concept.
Sure, sure.
But how did that save you guys?
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Yeah, yeah.
So our Ford commitment or orrate lock bucket.
I mean, really, we started umand it was crazy.
Um, I think we're almost on likeour 100th rate lock bucket.
That's awesome.
Which is like, which is great.
Yes, because again, it keepsbusiness moving forward.
It does.
It it keeps the it keeps thecycle moving.
So someone needs to move becausethey're gonna sell a home.
Yes.
So then it opens it up for atrue first-time buyer.
(22:09):
Because I'll, you know, uh,we're our average sales price at
385 across the city.
So some some may say that's notin a first-time home buyer uh uh
piece.
I think some of my neighborhoodsI could I could show you
completely differently that itabsolutely is.
Yes.
Um, but no, uh I mean at the endof the day, we had to keep we
had to keep the machine rolling,and that's every builder.
Because if if real estate uhdoes not do well, we know what
(22:30):
that looks like.
You know, look at 2008.
We know what that looks like,right?
Uh so you know, the real estate,you know, the real estate world
they say is uh one of the bigbackbones of the economy.
So we have to keep that suckermoving.
So uh some really smart peoplegot together, uh, I would
jokingly say with theIlluminati, but that's not
serious, that's a joke.
Um but no, but but you you kindof you kind of touched on it.
(22:50):
A lot of the CEOs got together,a lot of the CFOs understood
like what it was gonna take tokeep the business moving
forward.
It started off as you know, yougot a rate lock bucket.
Actually, if you were alreadyunder contract.
Yeah.
So back in 2022 is when wereally started rolling out our
first, our first rate lockbuckets.
Yeah.
And that's where um, you know,you were already under contract,
and hey, we were giving you amax ceiling.
(23:11):
So we're like, hey, weunderstand you went under
contract at, you know, when whenthe rate was a five.
Right.
Well, guess what?
You know, I'm gonna put you in abucket that isn't you're not
gonna go up more than five and aquarter.
Yes.
Are you comfortable?
Outstanding, sign this, pressum, boom.
And then it and then it changedrapidly to probably October of
2022, where it was for newsales.
(23:32):
Yes.
So we had protected the backlog,we had protected you know,
clients for our realtor friends.
And then again, if if we weren'table to do the deal when we sent
it out to our referral partners,uh, we were giving you max
closing cost contributionlegally allowable.
SPEAKER_04 (23:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:46):
Um, all this without touching sales price.
Wow.
We took it.
I can speak for Meritage Homesof being a true partner of the
industry for realtors, forlenders, but most importantly
for the homeowners.
Yeah, we took it as marginerosion and continue to do that
today.
Wow.
Uh so we did not move or we didnot inflate prices.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Well, it also speaks volumes to the prices that you
guys had set their propertiesat.
Yeah, because if they're makingabsolutely if it's making value
and you guys are still able tomake a solid margin, the
borrower feels like they got agood deal because their payment
is right where they want it tobe.
That's right.
They understand what's going on,where the money's coming from.
(24:30):
And and I would say most of therealtors that I work with, when
they go builder, they tell themthis is how it's going to work.
Now, a lot of lenders out therefor the past three years have
been pretty upset.
Sure.
I'm a little bit different.
I'm okay to not get thatbusiness because I've been in
the business a while.
I've got to book a business.
We we do pre-own plenty, etcetera.
(24:51):
Got a great referral businesstoo, by the way.
Because you do a good job foryour people.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (24:55):
That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
And for me, I'm looking at the big picture of
all right, San Antonio, bottomline, we need more inventory.
Oh, yeah, anytime.
And at the end of the day, ifyou're not gonna build it, they
will.
That's right.
And what that means is over aperiod of time, let's say five
to eight years, and that couldbe if we start seeing rates come
(25:17):
down, shrink a little bit more,but it has it it rose all the
way to eight years as the theaverage versus the normal three
to five.
At a certain point, those homesare gonna be coming on the
market.
And now we've got more pre-ownedhomes.
Right.
That's where they come from.
That's I mean, every homeeventually started as a uh as a
(25:38):
new construction home.
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Every single one of them.
That's right.
Believe it or not, yes, theydon't just appear.
They don't just appear fiveyears old, right?
Like someone built thembranding.
Exactly right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So that's the way I look at it from my perspective
of our market needs more newconstruction homes because
eventually those will become thenew second home for someone.
That's right.
Truly, yeah.
That being said, how how are youguys dealing with and let me ask
you have you experienced alreadysomeone trying to resell too
(26:12):
soon?
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
Yeah, I mean, yes.
So I mean, we really only findout about those.
It's not anything that we reallytrack internally, of course,
yeah, but it's when that whenthat um when that client needs
to move, typically we see itwith our military and dod
friends, right?
Like our military and do umclients, you know, they're
getting rotated out.
(26:34):
Um, really, I think the ifyou're if you bought in 20 at
the end of 2020 and any timeduring 2021, you bought at the
height of the market is pricing.
It's just the thing in anymarket.
In any market, yeah, in theUnited States of America, you
bought at the the last threemonths of 2020 and all of 2021,
it was the height of the market.
Right.
Just it is what it was.
(26:54):
Something propelled you.
You had to move.
You you made a great choice.
You bought a home, still betterthan renting, still better than
renting all day long.
Um, but hey, you got a goodrate.
But you got a great rate.
You got a great rate.
The conversations that arehaving to be had, and and I'm
really I'm impressed with I callI always refer to the top
performing real estate agents.
(27:14):
Yeah, they are really great,Cesar being one of them.
Um, they're coaching them like,hey, you might want to be a
landlord for two years, threeyears.
Let's let the market rebound.
You know, let's let the marketreally just become um balanced.
Yes.
And then you can sell.
Uh because yeah, there are thoseconversations um that are tough
to have.
Yes.
When you're you bought at thistime and the prices have come
(27:36):
down uh and you might barelybreak even, you might owe 15 or
20 grand at closing.
That's a very uncomfortableconversation.
One of the ones you have to haveto be to be transparent.
Um, but I would say that um theones that we do hear of, they
they really either they're gonnaget a corporate relocation
package.
Sure.
So the company, the DOD, thegovernment's gonna buy the home.
(27:58):
That's right.
Good for you.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
They're the ones taking the L.
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
That's right.
They're gonna take the L later,good for them.
Um, other than that, the youknow, we're gonna see an
increase in rentals, but to thepoint of being low on inventory.
I mean, we're very methodical onour starts.
So we have really smart peoplethat work for us and our their
strategic operation partnersstrops.
Yeah, they just do data analysisand they tell us where we need
to buy the land, what we shouldbe paying for the land, how we
(28:22):
should develop it, what ourdevelopment costs should be.
So they give us a really strongbudget.
And then they say that's that'sthe growth, that's where it's
going.
Uh, they're still batting athousand percent.
So that's really great.
Um, and so that's where we'restarting our homes because we
agree.
I mean, there we are, we are aflashpoint, like one quick rate
dip of 1%.
Yep.
And then all of those folks thatare sitting on the sideline are
(28:43):
running in and they'll runthrough my inventory.
Yeah, and then we'll be backinto a 2021 situation that we do
not want to be in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
I'm right there with you.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
As a sales counselor who went through that, that was
the worst.
Like having to look at, hey,Mark, I know you love this home,
and I'm so happy that you lovethis home, but I can't sell it
to you for three months becauseI've already sold my allotment.
My, my uh, oh what do they callit?
Uh my meter.
Okay.
They metered us.
Oh, wow.
So I already sold my allotmentprobably by the fourth of the
(29:12):
month.
Then I went and hung out at TopGolfer and then draws with the
kids, right?
So some kids, yes.
But I mean, yeah, so it's like,hey, and like, so this is like
May.
So I've already sold my May.
I already have my June squaredaway, ready to go.
I already have the earnest moneylocked up in the safe at the
office.
Um, so I'll get you in July.
That was so uncomfortable.
And we don't want that again.
We want a healthy, balancedmarket that's good for
everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:32):
Um, a run on housing is tough because it always
equates to crazy uh uh priceincreases, and we don't want
that.
That we don't want to break themarket again.
Um, so we're being verymethodical and keeping a healthy
supply of homes.
Also, and and every builder isdoing this, you know.
You know, kudos to everybody.
They're working on ways toperfect their cycle times.
(29:53):
Yeah, let's be really smart andsuper efficient on how I build a
home so I can do it moreaffordably, which then that
gets.
It's passed right back to thebuyer, right back to a realtor,
right back to an outside lendingpartner.
Um, but you know, we're we'rereally keeping our eye on that
ball.
Like we're we're keeping wherelike the the proverb, right?
The the the whole uh phrase goeslike, don't watch where the
hockey puck is, watch where thehockey puck is going.
(30:15):
That's what we're really doing.
That's exactly trying to bevery, very methodical on housing
starts.
Um, you'll see a little probablyvery similar start numbers this
year versus last year.
Next year we expect growth.
I mean, we expect substantialgrowth for next year.
Um and I'd like to talk aboutthat now briefly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:33):
Um, we're we're short on time, but yeah, no,
you're gonna get real tight.
And and the idea of of the buyerhaving to relocate, having to
quickly uh uh um get out of thecurrent new construction home.
Yeah, I'm hoping that theirrealtor did a great job, their
sales counselor did a great jobof explaining the concept of
(30:56):
hey, you're probably gonna haveto be here for the next at least
three years.
Absolutely.
And uh after that being statedto the borrower, hey guys, it's
time to turn yourself into aninvestor.
That's right.
And I will I will be honest, italmost forces them down that
road to get them shaped intookay, this isn't as bad as I
(31:17):
thought it would be because alot of folks and and me, one of
them, early on, we startedinvesting three years after we
bought our first one, yeah, andthat's how we made a lot of our
money.
I'll be honest with you.
That's right, sold all ourproperties, et cetera, et
cetera.
But the idea was if I'm gonnahave somebody else pay my
equity, let me go do that more.
(31:39):
Yeah, I'll be the mom and popinvestor.
Let's replicate that absolutelythat's generational wealth
1000%.
In addition, your VA buyer, andthat was very specific when Josh
was talking about that.
Yes, they are harmed the most,but at the same time, they also
have the most ability to gain inthose situations.
Absolutely because let's sayyou've got borrower, military
(32:02):
veteran, or current active dutythat is stationed in San
Antonio, they buy their home.
Three years later later, theyget PCS to another state,
convert that into a rental.
This property that they go andpurchase, hopefully their credit
stayed good because we knowtheir income is consistent.
Absolutely.
They can a hundred percentoffset this property with the
(32:23):
lease agreement and now move onto their next.
They've got upwards of millionof entitlements that they can
continue to use over and over.
Go build your empire.
Absolutely.
Somebody educate them.
Are you are you why go buildyour empire?
Yeah.
Um, so just wanted to kind ofput a little uh uh exclamation
point on what you were talkingabout there because it's it's
(32:46):
important.
So, with this last uh couple ofminutes that we have here, um
I've gotten everything that Ineeded to and wanted the the
folks to to hear about in this.
Is there anything you want totalk about?
Is there anything you want tolet us know?
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Yeah, yeah, I we're plenty of time left.
Yeah, no, so I number one, thankyou for having me on.
Thanks for listening.
I can ramble, so thanks forguiding me.
You're doing great.
You've kept me in the guardrailsreally well, so thank you.
Um, I mean, I think what Ireally want, you know, the
everyone listening and and andjokingly, like the world to know
about maritage is we uh oh dude,we've got subscribers in India.
(33:20):
Let's go.
Hey, let's go.
Let's go.
Hey, I have some amazing homesfor you.
Yeah, beautiful homes.
And let's go to Sagebrook.
You'll probably love Sagebrook.
Um, no, uh we are building abusiness on partnerships, right?
And and that, and that, andthat's not you know, being corny
or anything.
I mean, we are partnering.
So we relaunched, you know, whenwe started in this business
(33:42):
together, Meritage had an agentrocks program.
Yeah, all it was was justincreased bonuses.
I didn't help educate realtors,I didn't share leads with them,
I didn't give them listings, Ididn't, it was just bonuses.
And that's kind of cold andcallous.
It's great, right?
Like everyone likes to get paida little more.
Sure.
That also got us in a lot oftrouble, and that's why we had
the NAR settlement.
Yeah.
(34:02):
Again, another topic for anothertime.
But you are correct.
But it it really did.
So we took our program and said,hey, how can we better partner
with our realtor friends?
Um, thus helping our realtor orour forgive me, our lending
friends also.
But like we let's partnertogether and let's truly build
something together that'sspecial.
Yeah.
So when everyone goes, any anyrealtor listening, I I really
(34:23):
encourage you to go toMeritageHomes.com forward slash
agents.
Sign up for our Agent Rocksprogram.
100% uh free to sign up.
The moment you sign up, you havea suite of perks your way.
Outside of just like, you know,heads up on like really cool um,
you know, promotions that we'rerunning.
I mean, automatically you canget lead sharing.
(34:44):
Then as you kind of engage withus and you work with us, you'll
earn the right all the way up togetting one of my listings.
Like I will give you a brand newhome.
My team will give you a brandnew home to list and treat
completely as yours.
Wow.
Yes, it's a brand new home.
It always something uh like yousaid, every home starts out as a
brand new home, but it's yourlisting.
It's your MLS, it's your photos,that you can have all the broker
(35:05):
open houses you want to.
It's your listing, it's yourmarketing, it's everything.
I'll pay for the virtual toursuh and you just list it and then
dominate the marketing space.
Wow.
Uh, but that's that is a bigthing where a lot of builders
and you're starting to seebecause a lot of there's a lot
of optimism going into 2026.
Absolutely.
So there are a lot of buildersthat are kind of stepping away
from our realtors again.
(35:26):
We'll never do that.
When people, you know, whenother builders, again, bad
actors, when they droppedcommission to a flat rate or a
1%, we stayed at 3%.
Yeah, you know, uh there weresome ways.
You are exactly correct.
We we never we never shied awayfrom our realtors because we
know that that partnershiptogether is what makes the light
stay on.
SPEAKER_04 (35:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
Um, nothing happens until a realtor, you know,
shakes one of our guys or gals'hands and introduces a client.
That's right.
You know, um, so that that'swhat I want the world to know is
we're we're putting our moneywhere our mouth is.
We are offering a suite ofeducation CE, uh, open house
opportunities.
Like literally, you can go intoany one of my neighborhoods uh
across this across the country.
(36:05):
Yeah.
And they will let you host openhouses, sit in the office.
There's the new lead sharingthing that, like I said, just
got turned on yesterday,actually.
So if you go sign up for AgentRocks, there's a public profile
you'll turn on, and that willallow people to see your
profile, your beautiful mugshoton our website.
So when they're looking at ahome on the east side, if you
(36:27):
say, Hey, I'm an east side pro,your name will show up there.
So if they don't have an agent,they can start engaging with
you.
What builder out there is givingrealtors business, right?
None.
And then and then it allowsagain for the agent that you
partner with, can bring them toone of our models.
As long as you give us a headsup through the referral channel,
you're protected as the as thelender, too.
Like we want to partner witheveryone.
(36:48):
Because if the builder, therealtor, and the lender win,
that's gonna get us through thisnonsense until it becomes a
balanced market.
So that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
That's what I got.
Man, that's what I got.
So so you guys add a prettysubstantial amount of value.
I believe it's because yourleadership is very
forward-thinking, very, uh, veryproactive instead of reactive in
this market.
Uh, it shows, um, especiallythat you guys are able to do
what you're doing and stillthrive through this market.
Yeah.
Um, that being said, I wouldlike to give you some gifts, a
(37:20):
couple of gifts.
Lone bot hat.
And I don't want to go.
Over the last uh three years,not only have I been lending,
but I've been working on a techtool called Lone Bot.
Yeah.
Um, and I want to be able toprovide you and your sales
counselors with this tool.
Um, what it does is allows thoseborrowers to self-diagnose, kind
(37:40):
of similar to a homebuddy, buttotally different.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04 (37:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Um, allows them to shop viable programs, no credit
pools, no credit checks, thatjust something that they can
find um true and accurateprogram details, payment
calculators, all that kind ofstuff.
Um, you guys can embed yourmaritage home search in there.
That being the case, I want togive that to you guys as a gift.
(38:07):
Um and I'll get that set up andthat way three months from now,
when everybody's using it, theyknow where they got it from.
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (38:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate that, brother.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
Absolutely.
Now, to cap this show off, um, Iwant to thank you for the
friendship thus far.
SPEAKER_03 (38:23):
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:23):
Um to be continued, most definitely.
Yes.
And I want to tell the folks outthere that God is my witness, I
have worked with all of thebuilders, uh, especially in the
turndown capacity over the last13 and a half years.
Not once, not once have I everreceived a negative review, uh,
(38:47):
negative feedback, uh,complaint, anything like that on
a maritage home or maritagetransaction.
I can honestly say that.
Your checks in the mail.
I'm just saying, yeah, no, no,no, not non-paid.
That is just nothing but realtalk always on this discussion
or on this podcast.
Um, you guys are putting yourmoney where your mouth is and it
shows.
SPEAKER_03 (39:07):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks, buddy.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
Yeah.
Well, Tommy, thank you forjoining us.
Um, those of you out there, youheard it here where we only talk
real talk.
Uh, hopefully you guys aregetting something out of this.
Uh, and as mentioned before,please make sure to like and
subscribe.
We've got 200 more to go to getto three to 30,000.
So we're almost there.
(39:30):
Um, still, this this thing righthere, I don't know if they can
see this.
It says estimated monthlyearnings,$35 to$105.
Easy chief.
I've never seen that before.
I'm like, where is this money?
SPEAKER_03 (39:41):
Like, where did you send it?
Those are unrealized games.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Okay, that's what that's gotta be.
SPEAKER_03 (39:45):
Like, don't tell my CPA.
That's right, that's right.
Don't tell the IRX.
That's right.
Terrible.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
Guys, um, thanks for tuning in.
We really appreciate you.
Uh, we'll continue to bring youmore uh real talk with real
guests, just like Tommy.
Thank you, and we'll catch youon the next one.
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And welcome back to another episode of Key Factors
Podcast, Real Estate AF, wherethe AF stands for and finance.
And I'm your host, Mark Jones,and we are powered by Lone Bot,
Smarter Mortgage Matching.
And on our last discussion, um,we had a group of gentlemen in,
uh, all veterans in thebusiness, and we were talking
about builders, builderincentives, um, some
(01:25):
misconceptions that are goingon, and some malpractices that
we believe um should becorrected because of the
fiduciary responsibility we havefor our clients.
Um, and a good friend of minesaw the episode and said, Man,
that was a great discussion, theway that you guys painted that
picture.
Um, and I'd like to add some twocents to it.
(01:46):
So without further ado, I'd liketo introduce Tommy Fryer.
Tommy, how are you?
We're good, brother.
How are you?
Doing well.
Um, so Tommy, you surprisingly,if I'm not mistaken, geez, I am
not looking it up.
I think you got in the businessdamn near the same year as me.
Uh 2012.
SPEAKER_03 (02:04):
Yeah, 2012.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So uh yeah, August of 2012.
I was hanging out at USAA beforethat, trying to figure out what
I was gonna do when I grew up,you know, uh, and then a good
friend of mine was in thebusiness and was like, hey, like
you would do really well, likeface to face uh and go sell some
homes and change your family'strajectory.
And I said, let's go.
That's let's go.
(02:25):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Uh you and I used to do a lot of business back in the
day.
I I was matter of fact, I hadSavemybuilderloan.com, was doing
a lot of turndown business.
Um, so a lot of folks out theremay or may not know who you are.
A lot of realtors watch this,lenders watch this.
So if you could just for amoment, tell us a bit more about
yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (02:45):
Yeah.
Uh so Thomas Fryer, uh beenworking for Meritage Homes for
the last 13 years.
You know, nine and a half ofthose years were on the sales
floor making friendships withknuckleheads like you.
That's right.
And uh a lot of phenomenalrealtors.
Uh, you know, uh Cesar uh fromlast week's episode, near and
dear friend of mine.
Uh so when I saw him on here, Iwas like, all right, all right,
all right, there might be this.
(03:06):
Not only that, but there mightbe some validity to this now.
Um, but yeah, no, been in thebusiness for 13 years, nine and
a half as a uh sales counselorin the last, you know, four and
a half years as the sell one ofthe sales leaders here in San
Antonio.
Yeah.
We have a phenomenal um teamhere with Meritage Homes in San
Antonio and uh just just excitedto be here.
Uh love the industry.
I've loved what what we've beenable to do together.
(03:27):
Um, we're a big believer thatthe the builder relationship and
the uh realtor relationship doesnot have to be adversarial.
I love it.
That we can absolutely partnertogether, and we'll talk about
that a little later about how wewant to partner better with our
realtor partners and our and ourrealtor friends and our and our
lender friends too.
You may know that you know thattoo.
Um but yeah, that's that's alittle bit about me.
(03:49):
Also love long walks on thebeach.
Absolutely.
Love my wife, Lauren.
Hi, absolute love of my life andmy two babies.
Uh the my family, my householdis everything to me, and it's
why we do this crazy thing inthe builder world.
They're my everything.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
That's exactly right.
Well, Tommy, um, not to breakthe ice or have us fall through
the cracks of that polar ice,yeah.
Uh already did that thismorning.
So I want to kick this off.
Uh, matter of fact, JC, if youcould throw up the screen real
quick.
First off, to our listeners, oursubscribers, our folks tuning
(04:27):
in, we are almost at 30,000subscribers.
We're 200 subscribers away.
Um, I'm hoping after thisepisode goes live, we may reach
it.
So thank you all for tuning inand continuing to stay active
with our channel.
Um, we promise to continue tobring you folks like Tommy.
Um, let me kick this over to thefollowing.
(04:50):
So something was brought to myattention um uh besides what we
were going to talk about today,and I wanted to get your
perspective on it.
Sure.
Um, so what we're looking at onscreen is basically an update or
a uh uh uh a quick synopsis ofsomething that is going on right
now.
(05:10):
And and what I mean right now,we're talking October 1st.
What just took place was DRHorton and DHI are under fire
right now for some ummalpractices.
And what those are, matter offact, we touched on them in the
last discussion, which issetting up your borrower on
unimproved taxes um without thembeing aware of that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
Now, mind you, I will uh at least say the
following anytime you close withunimproved taxes, there is a
form that you sign called apayment shock letter.
And I don't care what lender youare, what title company you are,
it's in the closing package.
Whether the borrower reads it,understands it, um, that's a
(05:54):
totally different story.
In my opinion, that conversationshould come from the lender for
sure from day one all the waytill the end, reminding them
what's taking place.
Yeah.
Um, I don't know if they're theonly ones going through
something like that, but I doknow that it is a very, very big
deal.
That being said, what separatesmaritage and the way that you
(06:19):
guys do business from someonelike a D.R.
Horton and uh a parlay DHIconcept, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (06:27):
Right.
And you know, like I'm not, Idon't want to pick on one
particular doctor in the truth.
Just as an example, yeah, as theexample of a lawsuit example.
Yeah, yeah.
Huge, huge lawsuit.
You know, I think in in today'sworld, there's a lot of folks
that are afraid to just behonest and lay out the facts
because they're afraid ofgetting that terrible word no.
That's right.
Like, I'm not gonna buy thishome.
I'm not gonna go with you as mylender, I'm not gonna go with
(06:49):
you as my agent.
But at Meritage, I think whatreally sets ourselves apart, you
know, as far as like ourcustomer care and our and our
service is we're gonna be realwith you.
Yeah.
Like when, and that's my, youknow, myself, my vice president
of sales, finance, all the waydown to our intern, right?
Yeah.
Like our entire sales team isempowered and is expected to
(07:09):
have those legitimateconversations around financing.
So you may not like our answer.
You may really get upset andpotentially walk out of my sales
offices because you don't likethe payment, but it's gonna be
the truth.
SPEAKER_04 (07:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:23):
Like we are gonna be 100% factual.
Where here's your principal,here's your interest, here's
your improved taxes.
Yeah.
We'll work in, you know, youryour homestead in there and any
other, you know, disabled vetsare 100%.
Obviously, then it's anon-issue.
But we're gonna have the realcombo and with a legitimate
homeowner's insurance quote.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
We're gonna be real and incredibly transparent.
Right.
And I think that's where uhother bad actors right now are
not being transparent.
They're basically telling thebuyer what they want to hear,
sure, which is not a greatcourse of business.
And it's it sets all of us upfor failure later because it
taints our reputation too.
Even though we have nothing todo with that builder or with
(08:01):
that lender, it still makes uslook bad.
We get painted with that samebrush.
So that's where that's wherewe're trying to be, and we will
always continue to be truthfuland transparent, even if the
answer isn't uh a popular one.
We're gonna be real.
SPEAKER_02 (08:13):
Okay.
I mean, that's that's makesperfect sense.
And I have to uh uh uh concurwith that.
You talking about painting apicture.
Yeah, I'd like to paint apicture of let's say the last
five years.
Okay, we'll sum it up like fasttrack because let's go 2019.
Sure, me as an outside lender toa builder was still doing
(08:36):
turndowns for several builders.
For sure.
Then 2020 came around, um, shithit the fan, and all of a
sudden, builders don't needoutside lenders anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
And then we fast track towards a couple more
years, and now all of a suddenit's like, hey, you guys uh can
you get this deal done?
For sure.
Now I'm not talking specificallymaritage.
This is just at builders ingeneral.
Sure.
What can you fast track usthrough what has taken place in
the last, let's say, five years?
SPEAKER_03 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So I I go, and it's a reallygood place to start, right?
The let's just call it like sixyears ago.
Let's go to October of 2019.
Yeah, you know, there was a alot of um optimism, a lot of
excitement, especially in Texas,right?
It's a great place to move, uh,to raise a family.
Um, so we're we're expectingreally good solid growth in
2020.
Uh, to your point, when ourin-house lender, you know, shout
(09:28):
out MTH Mortgage, you know, whenour in-house lender couldn't get
the things done, we would becalling Mark.
Yeah.
We'd be calling a handful ofothers.
We knew the portfolio that youcarried as far as uh your
flexibility and underwriting andwhat you were able to do, uh,
your layers.
Um, and and it was always asolid part of our business.
Um 2020, you know, COVID.
(09:48):
Correct.
You know, you started hearingCOVID uh right after, you know,
uh, you know, what January andFebruary really started hitting
mainstream media here.
Uh, then we started doingshutdowns in the beginning to
middle of March.
We thought the world was gonnaend, like, or at least our
business, not there was a lot ofpeople that got hurt by that.
So I don't mean thatdisingenuously at all.
Um, we really thought thebusiness was just gonna freeze.
(10:09):
We were all gonna get stuck inour homes, our apartments, our
our what, our rentals, whatever,and nothing was gonna happen.
Right.
The exact opposite happened.
Absolutely.
Everyone and their mom moved,everyone and their mom at that
moment had just great credit.
They had cash.
So unfortunately, for ourreferral partners or our
turndown partners, uh, we didn'thave a lot of opportunity to
(10:31):
send to you.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
And and and yeah, just to kind of help help that
conversation, just that portionof it.
Yeah, us outside lenders, and Ican speak for all of us that had
a book of business that had agreat reputation, had a good
process, had great products, etcetera.
Yeah, we weren't hurting forbusiness either.
Yeah, you were doing good.
No, you do.
It's not like we were reachingout, hey, we need this turn
(10:53):
down.
No, no, no.
Yeah, no.
Our business was coming in.
Correct.
It was an entire industry boom.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:00):
3% interest rates was what a what an amazing thing
that that did for all of us,right?
Um, you know, and also kind ofgave us a false uh bias on our
abilities too.
And we can talk about thatlater.
Um, but no, you know, so 2020,you know, started off really
scary for the first four months.
Then I remember I was stillselling homes on the floor in
May of 2020.
(11:21):
I think I sold like a like eightor nine homes, which was the
most at my time that time of mycareer.
And I was like, okay, we'regonna be okay.
Yeah.
Uh and I'm a good salescounselor.
The rates definitely helped, butI'm not not gonna lie.
Um, then you go into 2021, samething, wait lists, right?
We're taking, you know, likeliterally as you came in, we
would write, hey, I was onlyallowed to sell five homes in my
(11:41):
neighborhood.
So you're, hey, I'll write youokay.
So it is, you know, May of 2021.
I can put you under contract inJuly.
How does that sound?
I have no idea what the pricingis.
I know how this sounds.
I sound like I'm a crazy person.
I'm a charlatan, maybe.
Yeah.
Uh, there was a lot of wordsthrown in our way at that
moment.
Sure.
Um, and but again, to yourpoint, right?
Y'all were incredibly busy as asuh retail lenders.
(12:03):
Our in-house was very busybecause of our team's business.
Fast forward 2020, we had thecascading effect of interest
rates started creeping up.
Yes.
And then, you know, we reallywere still doing a really good
job.
You know, I think the industrywas still really strong in 2022.
2023, that's where it really gotchallenging.
Absolutely.
And for us, that's where, youknow, y'all were with us during
(12:24):
the great times of 19 and 20.
We still send, you know, uh turndown business.
But in 2023, I can ex, I can sayfor, you know, Meritage as San
Antonio, we wanted to partnerwith our lenders better that had
nothing to do with our in-house.
Sure.
So to this day, you know, we arestill offering.
So in 2023, 2024, 2025, if yousent me a client, right?
(12:46):
You just had to send thatthrough our referral channel,
which is basically me and theother sales leaders in the
division.
And like I'm still gonna giveyou all closing costs, right?
Plus uh a very generous amountof money to buy the rate down to
improve the rate because I wantyou to eat too.
Absolutely.
Because if you're eating andSWBC is eating, all the lenders
are eating, we're winning, andwe're good.
Absolutely.
(13:06):
We're gonna get our capturebecause of our Ford commitment
money.
And I know we'll probably maybetalk about that later.
Um, but you know, we're gonnacapture that business, but I
also need referrals because likethe you know, shocker everyone,
uh, there's no one reallybeating down our doors to walk
in.
So it really takes ourrelationship with our realtors
and their lenders, and I'm notgonna let them, you know, I'm
not gonna like bite the handthat feeds them.
(13:28):
Sure.
So we're gonna go with you andwe're gonna give you uh like
right now$28,000 in closingcosts if you use Mark Jones.
SPEAKER_02 (13:35):
You guys hear that?
That's a big deal.
That's a very big deal.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
We're gonna give that so we can help some cash to
close, and then you can use therest of the money, whatever
makes sense to that client.
Uh, use it to their best of theability, buy the rate down, save
cash, whatever, do a two-one,three-one, buy down, don't care.
Whatever makes sense to yourclient, let's do it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
So in talking about reality, real talk, we know that
the um drought of customers, andI'm not gonna say fully a
drought, the the uh softening?
Softening, yeah.
We'll we'll go with that.
Yeah.
Of customers all around, um,especially builders because of
(14:14):
the price point.
Yeah.
Um this was all due to interestrates immediately, and it was
like a spigot that was on,drinking from it.
Yeah, and then it was likebathing in it.
We're bathing in it.
Yeah, somebody turned it off andwe went, uh, where'd it go?
Where did all the business go?
And that being the case, whatwhat was that like for the
(14:35):
builder at that time?
I mean, you guys have a largeand and just Meritage in
general, but I'm sure a lot ofthe builders are set similar to
where you guys have a lot ofoverhead.
You've got a lot of employees,you've got a lot of operations
staff, including the sales andthe builder side, the projects.
There's just a lot.
A ton of people.
(14:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what was that like goingthrough that at the time?
And that's probably at the timewhen you made transition from
sales to leadership management,right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:05):
Yeah.
What what uh what a crazy timeto make that change.
Managers like, I don't know whatto do.
SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
Yeah, what do we do?
Put Tommy in.
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
Yeah, maybe I don't know.
Um, I mean, honestly, it was ahead spin.
You know, we went from, youknow, like like just like you
said, the the faucet was on, theshower head was on, and we were
raining sales, the storm cloudswere throwing out sales.
Right.
Uh then to really, you know, Ithink we really started feeling
the pinch, you know, March orApril of 23, uh, 2023.
(15:37):
Um, and it really was you had togo into triage mode.
So, number one, everyone's headspinning.
Yes, because like we went fromhero, and I'm not saying zero,
we didn't die, right?
We're still here, still verystrong, still selling a lot of
homes.
Uh, but we had to reevaluate ourexpectations as a leadership
team, but also as a good leader,is you go and seek out the wins
(15:57):
to keep your team motivated.
Yes.
So, okay, we maybe we didn't hitlike what our original plan was,
what we thought we were gonna doin 2023, but we still were very
profitable.
Yeah.
You know, you it you have toessentially your entire
organization has to erase 2020and 2021 out of your mind.
So that's like my greatestrecommendation to any realtor
listening to this, to any loanofficer listening to this, like
(16:20):
erase those years out of yourmind because those were
anomalies.
Yeah.
The amount of business that wewere able to do and and take
across the finish line in 2020and 2021, unheard of.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Carried over.
SPEAKER_03 (16:33):
Carried over, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:34):
Um like an old mentor used to tell me I tucked
away enough acorns.
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
That's it.
That's it.
That's it.
And if you were smart, yes, andif you were financially prudent,
it allowed you to weather thestorm of 23, 24, and 25.
And God willing, you all wereable to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:49):
Um, but yeah, I think I think like, you know,
just re-adjusting expectations,number one, and being real with
senior leadership was is whatevery sales leader had to do.
Yeah.
Be like, hey, if you want me totell you that you we're gonna
sell a thousand units this year,I'll tell that to you.
And then you'll be reallydisappointed on December 31st.
That's right.
Or we can just be real, we canhave a legitimate conversation.
(17:10):
I can show you my whys and I canshow you where the math is
mathing.
Correct.
Um, and and then, you know,we'll go forward from there.
Uh, and then with our salesteam, with our builders, project
managers, uh customer carefolks.
I mean, it's just seeking outwins for them to still feel that
they're doing their part.
Because no one in this businesslikes to lose.
Absolutely.
We're all very competitive.
(17:31):
It's part of our personalitytrait that makes us makes us
successful here.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (17:35):
Uh, so I think that's what, you know, when we
went, when we went through that,and look, we're still going
through it too.
You know, 2024 was balanced,like 2025.
There's been a lot of marketfears.
There's been a lot of fencesitting.
That's right.
Right.
There's a lot of people waitingfor something to change.
Pent up for sure.
Such pent up demand.
Um, so you know, it's it's everyday going out uh and and
(17:55):
celebrating the wins that we canfind.
Yeah.
Uh, and just being a good leaderand and you know, put a kind ear
to the team.
You know, some some of the teammay watch this, some of you may
not.
Uh, you know, some days youthink I'm probably a very
understanding person, and otherdays I'm gonna, you know, get on
your ass for doing somethingwrong, or or maybe not giving me
the uh the energy.
But we always say if you cangive me energy and effort and a
(18:17):
great attitude, we'll findresults somewhere, you know.
So, so that's a that's a bigdeal.
SPEAKER_02 (18:22):
So I'm looking up on screen.
Um what okay, here it is.
So let's see here.
The most recent period wheninterest rates rose quickly was
from March 2022 to July 2023.
Oh, yeah.
And they rose from, let's see,yeah, near zero.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
Yep.
Yeah, near zero to a five and aquarter, five and a half.
SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Yes.
And and what that equated to wasapproximately a three and a
quarter rate all the way up toseven.
Yeah.
It was like, holy cow.
Yeah, is this what our parentsexperienced?
Right.
And it wasn't really becausetheir rates were higher, but at
the same time, our price pointswere higher.
Oh my goodness, it was higher.
(19:08):
Our taxes were higher.
So everyone felt that a lot.
Oh, that huge pen.
Direct, yes, a lot moredirectly.
SPEAKER_03 (19:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Now it wasn't, and you can kill that.
It wasn't but maybe a couple ofmonths, maybe max a year later,
where all of the builders, Idon't know if you guys got
together, but you came up withsomething pretty genius that
hadn't been used in quite sometime, or if ever before.
Yeah.
And it was essentially uhbuilder forwards.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
That's right.
Yeah, forward commitments.
Forward commitments, um, ratelock buckets.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yes.
unknown (19:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
So luckily for the ops team, luckily for the build
for the the contractors that areall the trades, you guys put
your heads together and went,okay, let's put our money where
our mouth is, let's take a riskand we'll buy this block of
rates because it was alwaysyou're gonna buy the first block
and let's hope that we sell itall by the crazy guy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:03):
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
So when you did that, boom, it worked.
It didn't.
You and every other builder onthe streets went all right,
that's how we can continue tosell these homes and give the
customer what they're lookingfor in regards to their payment
comfort, in regards to theiraffordability 100%.
Yes.
And on the last discussion, I'llsay it again.
(20:25):
Yeah, I don't think that that'swrong in any way.
Yeah.
Reason being, and I'll paint thepicture for the folks there.
Uh if we are selling a pre-ownedhome, let's say I'm financing
it, I'm working with a borrowerthat maybe is using down payment
assistance.
Sure.
They've got very little in thebank.
I don't want them to use everypenny.
I love to see my borrowers havesome reserves.
I call it oh shit money.
SPEAKER_03 (20:47):
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Eventually, something's gonna happen.
Absolutely.
That being the case, it would belike us going, hey, seller, we
need more money in closing costsfrom you guys.
You're only willing to do 5,000.
Right.
We need an additional 10.
Right.
So what we're gonna do is we'regonna raise the sales price from
300 to 310.
(21:08):
You guys are now gonna pay15,000 total, and we're gonna
get the deal done.
Borrower is bringing truly zeroto closing.
Right.
The reason why it works isbecause it makes appraised
value.
That's right.
The buyer knows about it, theseller knows about it, all
agents are on board, that'sright, and the and the loan
officer with the builder, sameconcept.
(21:30):
Yeah, you guys are just able toincrease that quite a bit more
simply because the propertyappraises for more.
Right.
Can you explain that concept tous?
Uh I mean, that's that's trulyit in a nutshell, and you don't
have to explain the concept.
Sure, sure.
But how did that save you guys?
SPEAKER_03 (21:48):
Yeah, yeah.
So our Ford commitment or orrate lock bucket.
I mean, really, we started umand it was crazy.
Um, I think we're almost on likeour 100th rate lock bucket.
That's awesome.
Which is like, which is great.
Yes, because again, it keepsbusiness moving forward.
It does.
It it keeps the it keeps thecycle moving.
So someone needs to move becausethey're gonna sell a home.
Yes.
So then it opens it up for atrue first-time buyer.
(22:09):
Because I'll, you know, uh,we're our average sales price at
385 across the city.
So some some may say that's notin a first-time home buyer uh uh
piece.
I think some of my neighborhoodsI could I could show you
completely differently that itabsolutely is.
Yes.
Um, but no, uh I mean at the endof the day, we had to keep we
had to keep the machine rolling,and that's every builder.
Because if if real estate uhdoes not do well, we know what
(22:30):
that looks like.
You know, look at 2008.
We know what that looks like,right?
Uh so you know, the real estate,you know, the real estate world
they say is uh one of the bigbackbones of the economy.
So we have to keep that suckermoving.
So uh some really smart peoplegot together, uh, I would
jokingly say with theIlluminati, but that's not
serious, that's a joke.
Um but no, but but you you kindof you kind of touched on it.
(22:50):
A lot of the CEOs got together,a lot of the CFOs understood
like what it was gonna take tokeep the business moving
forward.
It started off as you know, yougot a rate lock bucket.
Actually, if you were alreadyunder contract.
Yeah.
So back in 2022 is when wereally started rolling out our
first, our first rate lockbuckets.
Yeah.
And that's where um, you know,you were already under contract,
and hey, we were giving you amax ceiling.
(23:11):
So we're like, hey, weunderstand you went under
contract at, you know, when whenthe rate was a five.
Right.
Well, guess what?
You know, I'm gonna put you in abucket that isn't you're not
gonna go up more than five and aquarter.
Yes.
Are you comfortable?
Outstanding, sign this, pressum, boom.
And then it and then it changedrapidly to probably October of
2022, where it was for newsales.
(23:32):
Yes.
So we had protected the backlog,we had protected you know,
clients for our realtor friends.
And then again, if if we weren'table to do the deal when we sent
it out to our referral partners,uh, we were giving you max
closing cost contributionlegally allowable.
SPEAKER_04 (23:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:46):
Um, all this without touching sales price.
Wow.
We took it.
I can speak for Meritage Homesof being a true partner of the
industry for realtors, forlenders, but most importantly
for the homeowners.
Yeah, we took it as marginerosion and continue to do that
today.
Wow.
Uh so we did not move or we didnot inflate prices.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Well, it also speaks volumes to the prices that you
guys had set their propertiesat.
Yeah, because if they're makingabsolutely if it's making value
and you guys are still able tomake a solid margin, the
borrower feels like they got agood deal because their payment
is right where they want it tobe.
That's right.
They understand what's going on,where the money's coming from.
(24:30):
And and I would say most of therealtors that I work with, when
they go builder, they tell themthis is how it's going to work.
Now, a lot of lenders out therefor the past three years have
been pretty upset.
Sure.
I'm a little bit different.
I'm okay to not get thatbusiness because I've been in
the business a while.
I've got to book a business.
We we do pre-own plenty, etcetera.
(24:51):
Got a great referral businesstoo, by the way.
Because you do a good job foryour people.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (24:55):
That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
And for me, I'm looking at the big picture of
all right, San Antonio, bottomline, we need more inventory.
Oh, yeah, anytime.
And at the end of the day, ifyou're not gonna build it, they
will.
That's right.
And what that means is over aperiod of time, let's say five
to eight years, and that couldbe if we start seeing rates come
(25:17):
down, shrink a little bit more,but it has it it rose all the
way to eight years as the theaverage versus the normal three
to five.
At a certain point, those homesare gonna be coming on the
market.
And now we've got more pre-ownedhomes.
Right.
That's where they come from.
That's I mean, every homeeventually started as a uh as a
(25:38):
new construction home.
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Every single one of them.
That's right.
Believe it or not, yes, theydon't just appear.
They don't just appear fiveyears old, right?
Like someone built thembranding.
Exactly right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So that's the way I look at it from my perspective
of our market needs more newconstruction homes because
eventually those will become thenew second home for someone.
That's right.
Truly, yeah.
That being said, how how are youguys dealing with and let me ask
you have you experienced alreadysomeone trying to resell too
(26:12):
soon?
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
Yeah, I mean, yes.
So I mean, we really only findout about those.
It's not anything that we reallytrack internally, of course,
yeah, but it's when that whenthat um when that client needs
to move, typically we see itwith our military and dod
friends, right?
Like our military and do umclients, you know, they're
getting rotated out.
(26:34):
Um, really, I think the ifyou're if you bought in 20 at
the end of 2020 and any timeduring 2021, you bought at the
height of the market is pricing.
It's just the thing in anymarket.
In any market, yeah, in theUnited States of America, you
bought at the the last threemonths of 2020 and all of 2021,
it was the height of the market.
Right.
Just it is what it was.
(26:54):
Something propelled you.
You had to move.
You you made a great choice.
You bought a home, still betterthan renting, still better than
renting all day long.
Um, but hey, you got a goodrate.
But you got a great rate.
You got a great rate.
The conversations that arehaving to be had, and and I'm
really I'm impressed with I callI always refer to the top
performing real estate agents.
(27:14):
Yeah, they are really great,Cesar being one of them.
Um, they're coaching them like,hey, you might want to be a
landlord for two years, threeyears.
Let's let the market rebound.
You know, let's let the marketreally just become um balanced.
Yes.
And then you can sell.
Uh because yeah, there are thoseconversations um that are tough
to have.
Yes.
When you're you bought at thistime and the prices have come
(27:36):
down uh and you might barelybreak even, you might owe 15 or
20 grand at closing.
That's a very uncomfortableconversation.
One of the ones you have to haveto be to be transparent.
Um, but I would say that um theones that we do hear of, they
they really either they're gonnaget a corporate relocation
package.
Sure.
So the company, the DOD, thegovernment's gonna buy the home.
(27:58):
That's right.
Good for you.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
They're the ones taking the L.
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
That's right.
They're gonna take the L later,good for them.
Um, other than that, the youknow, we're gonna see an
increase in rentals, but to thepoint of being low on inventory.
I mean, we're very methodical onour starts.
So we have really smart peoplethat work for us and our their
strategic operation partnersstrops.
Yeah, they just do data analysisand they tell us where we need
to buy the land, what we shouldbe paying for the land, how we
(28:22):
should develop it, what ourdevelopment costs should be.
So they give us a really strongbudget.
And then they say that's that'sthe growth, that's where it's
going.
Uh, they're still batting athousand percent.
So that's really great.
Um, and so that's where we'restarting our homes because we
agree.
I mean, there we are, we are aflashpoint, like one quick rate
dip of 1%.
Yep.
And then all of those folks thatare sitting on the sideline are
(28:43):
running in and they'll runthrough my inventory.
Yeah, and then we'll be backinto a 2021 situation that we do
not want to be in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
I'm right there with you.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
As a sales counselor who went through that, that was
the worst.
Like having to look at, hey,Mark, I know you love this home,
and I'm so happy that you lovethis home, but I can't sell it
to you for three months becauseI've already sold my allotment.
My, my uh, oh what do they callit?
Uh my meter.
Okay.
They metered us.
Oh, wow.
So I already sold my allotmentprobably by the fourth of the
(29:12):
month.
Then I went and hung out at TopGolfer and then draws with the
kids, right?
So some kids, yes.
But I mean, yeah, so it's like,hey, and like, so this is like
May.
So I've already sold my May.
I already have my June squaredaway, ready to go.
I already have the earnest moneylocked up in the safe at the
office.
Um, so I'll get you in July.
That was so uncomfortable.
And we don't want that again.
We want a healthy, balancedmarket that's good for
everybody.
SPEAKER_02 (29:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:32):
Um, a run on housing is tough because it always
equates to crazy uh uh priceincreases, and we don't want
that.
That we don't want to break themarket again.
Um, so we're being verymethodical and keeping a healthy
supply of homes.
Also, and and every builder isdoing this, you know.
You know, kudos to everybody.
They're working on ways toperfect their cycle times.
(29:53):
Yeah, let's be really smart andsuper efficient on how I build a
home so I can do it moreaffordably, which then that
gets.
It's passed right back to thebuyer, right back to a realtor,
right back to an outside lendingpartner.
Um, but you know, we're we'rereally keeping our eye on that
ball.
Like we're we're keeping wherelike the the proverb, right?
The the the whole uh phrase goeslike, don't watch where the
hockey puck is, watch where thehockey puck is going.
(30:15):
That's what we're really doing.
That's exactly trying to bevery, very methodical on housing
starts.
Um, you'll see a little probablyvery similar start numbers this
year versus last year.
Next year we expect growth.
I mean, we expect substantialgrowth for next year.
Um and I'd like to talk aboutthat now briefly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:33):
Um, we're we're short on time, but yeah, no,
you're gonna get real tight.
And and the idea of of the buyerhaving to relocate, having to
quickly uh uh um get out of thecurrent new construction home.
Yeah, I'm hoping that theirrealtor did a great job, their
sales counselor did a great jobof explaining the concept of
(30:56):
hey, you're probably gonna haveto be here for the next at least
three years.
Absolutely.
And uh after that being statedto the borrower, hey guys, it's
time to turn yourself into aninvestor.
That's right.
And I will I will be honest, italmost forces them down that
road to get them shaped intookay, this isn't as bad as I
(31:17):
thought it would be because alot of folks and and me, one of
them, early on, we startedinvesting three years after we
bought our first one, yeah, andthat's how we made a lot of our
money.
I'll be honest with you.
That's right, sold all ourproperties, et cetera, et
cetera.
But the idea was if I'm gonnahave somebody else pay my
equity, let me go do that more.
(31:39):
Yeah, I'll be the mom and popinvestor.
Let's replicate that absolutelythat's generational wealth
1000%.
In addition, your VA buyer, andthat was very specific when Josh
was talking about that.
Yes, they are harmed the most,but at the same time, they also
have the most ability to gain inthose situations.
Absolutely because let's sayyou've got borrower, military
(32:02):
veteran, or current active dutythat is stationed in San
Antonio, they buy their home.
Three years later later, theyget PCS to another state,
convert that into a rental.
This property that they go andpurchase, hopefully their credit
stayed good because we knowtheir income is consistent.
Absolutely.
They can a hundred percentoffset this property with the
(32:23):
lease agreement and now move onto their next.
They've got upwards of millionof entitlements that they can
continue to use over and over.
Go build your empire.
Absolutely.
Somebody educate them.
Are you are you why go buildyour empire?
Yeah.
Um, so just wanted to kind ofput a little uh uh exclamation
point on what you were talkingabout there because it's it's
(32:46):
important.
So, with this last uh couple ofminutes that we have here, um
I've gotten everything that Ineeded to and wanted the the
folks to to hear about in this.
Is there anything you want totalk about?
Is there anything you want tolet us know?
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Yeah, yeah, I we're plenty of time left.
Yeah, no, so I number one, thankyou for having me on.
Thanks for listening.
I can ramble, so thanks forguiding me.
You're doing great.
You've kept me in the guardrailsreally well, so thank you.
Um, I mean, I think what Ireally want, you know, the
everyone listening and and andjokingly, like the world to know
about maritage is we uh oh dude,we've got subscribers in India.
(33:20):
Let's go.
Hey, let's go.
Let's go.
Hey, I have some amazing homesfor you.
Yeah, beautiful homes.
And let's go to Sagebrook.
You'll probably love Sagebrook.
Um, no, uh we are building abusiness on partnerships, right?
And and that, and that, andthat's not you know, being corny
or anything.
I mean, we are partnering.
So we relaunched, you know, whenwe started in this business
(33:42):
together, Meritage had an agentrocks program.
Yeah, all it was was justincreased bonuses.
I didn't help educate realtors,I didn't share leads with them,
I didn't give them listings, Ididn't, it was just bonuses.
And that's kind of cold andcallous.
It's great, right?
Like everyone likes to get paida little more.
Sure.
That also got us in a lot oftrouble, and that's why we had
the NAR settlement.
Yeah.
(34:02):
Again, another topic for anothertime.
But you are correct.
But it it really did.
So we took our program and said,hey, how can we better partner
with our realtor friends?
Um, thus helping our realtor orour forgive me, our lending
friends also.
But like we let's partnertogether and let's truly build
something together that'sspecial.
Yeah.
So when everyone goes, any anyrealtor listening, I I really
(34:23):
encourage you to go toMeritageHomes.com forward slash
agents.
Sign up for our Agent Rocksprogram.
100% uh free to sign up.
The moment you sign up, you havea suite of perks your way.
Outside of just like, you know,heads up on like really cool um,
you know, promotions that we'rerunning.
I mean, automatically you canget lead sharing.
(34:44):
Then as you kind of engage withus and you work with us, you'll
earn the right all the way up togetting one of my listings.
Like I will give you a brand newhome.
My team will give you a brandnew home to list and treat
completely as yours.
Wow.
Yes, it's a brand new home.
It always something uh like yousaid, every home starts out as a
brand new home, but it's yourlisting.
It's your MLS, it's your photos,that you can have all the broker
(35:05):
open houses you want to.
It's your listing, it's yourmarketing, it's everything.
I'll pay for the virtual toursuh and you just list it and then
dominate the marketing space.
Wow.
Uh, but that's that is a bigthing where a lot of builders
and you're starting to seebecause a lot of there's a lot
of optimism going into 2026.
Absolutely.
So there are a lot of buildersthat are kind of stepping away
from our realtors again.
(35:26):
We'll never do that.
When people, you know, whenother builders, again, bad
actors, when they droppedcommission to a flat rate or a
1%, we stayed at 3%.
Yeah, you know, uh there weresome ways.
You are exactly correct.
We we never we never shied awayfrom our realtors because we
know that that partnershiptogether is what makes the light
stay on.
SPEAKER_04 (35:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
Um, nothing happens until a realtor, you know,
shakes one of our guys or gals'hands and introduces a client.
That's right.
You know, um, so that that'swhat I want the world to know is
we're we're putting our moneywhere our mouth is.
We are offering a suite ofeducation CE, uh, open house
opportunities.
Like literally, you can go intoany one of my neighborhoods uh
across this across the country.
(36:05):
Yeah.
And they will let you host openhouses, sit in the office.
There's the new lead sharingthing that, like I said, just
got turned on yesterday,actually.
So if you go sign up for AgentRocks, there's a public profile
you'll turn on, and that willallow people to see your
profile, your beautiful mugshoton our website.
So when they're looking at ahome on the east side, if you
(36:27):
say, Hey, I'm an east side pro,your name will show up there.
So if they don't have an agent,they can start engaging with
you.
What builder out there is givingrealtors business, right?
None.
And then and then it allowsagain for the agent that you
partner with, can bring them toone of our models.
As long as you give us a headsup through the referral channel,
you're protected as the as thelender, too.
Like we want to partner witheveryone.
(36:48):
Because if the builder, therealtor, and the lender win,
that's gonna get us through thisnonsense until it becomes a
balanced market.
So that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
That's what I got.
Man, that's what I got.
So so you guys add a prettysubstantial amount of value.
I believe it's because yourleadership is very
forward-thinking, very, uh, veryproactive instead of reactive in
this market.
Uh, it shows, um, especiallythat you guys are able to do
what you're doing and stillthrive through this market.
Yeah.
Um, that being said, I wouldlike to give you some gifts, a
(37:20):
couple of gifts.
Lone bot hat.
And I don't want to go.
Over the last uh three years,not only have I been lending,
but I've been working on a techtool called Lone Bot.
Yeah.
Um, and I want to be able toprovide you and your sales
counselors with this tool.
Um, what it does is allows thoseborrowers to self-diagnose, kind
(37:40):
of similar to a homebuddy, buttotally different.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04 (37:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Um, allows them to shop viable programs, no credit
pools, no credit checks, thatjust something that they can
find um true and accurateprogram details, payment
calculators, all that kind ofstuff.
Um, you guys can embed yourmaritage home search in there.
That being the case, I want togive that to you guys as a gift.
(38:07):
Um and I'll get that set up andthat way three months from now,
when everybody's using it, theyknow where they got it from.
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (38:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate that, brother.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
Absolutely.
Now, to cap this show off, um, Iwant to thank you for the
friendship thus far.
SPEAKER_03 (38:23):
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:23):
Um to be continued, most definitely.
Yes.
And I want to tell the folks outthere that God is my witness, I
have worked with all of thebuilders, uh, especially in the
turndown capacity over the last13 and a half years.
Not once, not once have I everreceived a negative review, uh,
(38:47):
negative feedback, uh,complaint, anything like that on
a maritage home or maritagetransaction.
I can honestly say that.
Your checks in the mail.
I'm just saying, yeah, no, no,no, not non-paid.
That is just nothing but realtalk always on this discussion
or on this podcast.
Um, you guys are putting yourmoney where your mouth is and it
shows.
SPEAKER_03 (39:07):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks, buddy.
SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
Yeah.
Well, Tommy, thank you forjoining us.
Um, those of you out there, youheard it here where we only talk
real talk.
Uh, hopefully you guys aregetting something out of this.
Uh, and as mentioned before,please make sure to like and
subscribe.
We've got 200 more to go to getto three to 30,000.
So we're almost there.
(39:30):
Um, still, this this thing righthere, I don't know if they can
see this.
It says estimated monthlyearnings,$35 to$105.
Easy chief.
I've never seen that before.
I'm like, where is this money?
SPEAKER_03 (39:41):
Like, where did you send it?
Those are unrealized games.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Okay, that's what that's gotta be.
SPEAKER_03 (39:45):
Like, don't tell my CPA.
That's right, that's right.
Don't tell the IRX.
That's right.
Terrible.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
Guys, um, thanks for tuning in.
We really appreciate you.
Uh, we'll continue to bring youmore uh real talk with real
guests, just like Tommy.
Thank you, and we'll catch youon the next one.
unknown (40:04):
Tuesday, get better, two save, better, the internet
for five years, ten years, andfifty.
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
If you're still sending out pre-approval letters
and praying your realtors sendyou the next lead, you're
already behind.
SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Top producers are winning because they're giving
their agents more than just ratesheets and donuts.
They're giving them loan bot.
With loan bot, you can offerrealtors a white-labeled,
co-branded digital mortgage toolthat they send straight to their
buyers.
It's like giving them a miniloan officer in their pocket.
Available 24-7, fully loaded andbranded with your name and their
trust.
Buyers can self-diagnose,compare loan programs, check
(40:38):
real numbers, search properties,and explore down payment
assistance without blowing youup at 10 p.m.
And the best part?
You see everything, everyscenario, every lead, every
milestone.
You're looped in the whole way.
Loan bot isn't a widget, it'sthe referral machine you've been
waiting for.
Here's the deal your realtorscan get it from us directly for
$9.99 a month.
(40:59):
But it'd be in your bestinterest if they got it from
you.
Either way, they're going to getit.
White labeled, co branded,transparent, and more.
Sign up for your demo with ourteam of innovators.
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