November 13, 2024 • 25 mins
Drs. Richard Craig, LaNitra Berger, and Courtney Massie join your host, Dr. Rachel Yoho, to discuss how we productively have conversations, facilitate student writing, and grade when centered around potentially challenging topics.
Resources: Office of Faculty Affairs and Development: https://provost.gmu.edu/about/administrative-units/faculty-affairs-and-development (Contact this office for faculty affinity group information), Provost Website Resources for Faculty: https://provost.gmu.edu/faculty, George Mason University Faculty Resources: https://faculty.gmu.edu/, Stearns Center for Teaching and Learning: https://stearnscenter.gmu.edu/
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Episode Transcript
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Rachel (00:08):
Hello and welcome to Keystone Concepts in Teaching, a
higher education podcast fromthe Stearns Center for Teaching
and Learning, where we shareimpactful and evidence based
teaching practices to supportall students and faculty.
I'm your host, Rachel Yoho.
In this episode, we're going tobe discussing writing about
challenging topics.
I'm joined by three specialguests today.
(00:29):
Our first guest is Dr.
LaNitra Berger, AssociateProfessor of History and Art
History and Director of Africanand African American Studies at
George Mason University.
Dr.
Richard Craig is an AssociateProfessor of Communication and
the Associate Chair ofCommunication in the College of
Humanities and Social Sciencesat George Mason University.
And our third guest today is Dr.
(00:51):
Courtney Massie.
Courtney is the AssistantDirector of the Writing Center
at George Mason University.
As Assistant Director, Dr.
Massie manages the Center'soperations, supervises and
mentors the Center's staff, andteaches advanced composition.
So thank you so much, all threeof you, for joining us today.
(01:12):
So we want to talk today aboutwriting about challenging
topics.
But let's take this, as we startour conversation, from a broad
context.
We'll use race and racism as ourcore example for the discussion.
Could you tell us a little bitabout a class that you've taught
recently?
Richard (01:29):
Sure, usually in the summer times, I have a regular
course that I teach.
It's Gender, Race, and Class inthe Media.
And I actually teach that whereit's cross listed, where I have
undergraduate students as wellas graduate students enrolled in
the course.
And so it offers some realdynamic discussions.
LaNitra (01:47):
So, like Richard, I teach a lot of classes that are
connected to race, and as hesaid, one of the great parts of
teaching at Mason is that youhave a lot of different types of
students in the classroom.
They range in age, they range ingeographic origins, they range
in different types ofexperience.
Some are veterans, some areretired.
(02:08):
Some are your, you know, 18 to24 year olds, and when you bring
all of those people together inthe classroom, you have really
impactful conversations.
One class that I've taughtrecently is the intro class to
African American studies.
It's called AFAM 200.
A lot of students take it andlove it no matter who teaches
it, and it really becomes a veryimportant class in shaping their
(02:31):
worldview.
Courtney (02:33):
And I teach advanced composition English 302, which
is basically a class about howto do research and write in your
academic discipline, your major,your field of study, For the
last four years, since thepandemic hit, I've been teaching
fully online asynchronous.
I get students from alldisciplines and majors since my
(02:53):
section that I teach ismultidisciplinary, so basically,
any major can take the course,and I get all types of students
as well, like my colleagues.
So because it's a class where weexamine what's going on in your
particular field, I ask studentskind of how are professionals in
your field, scholars in yourfield, trying to address current
(03:15):
issues or problems in yourfield?
And often that has to do withadvancing justice in some kind
of way.
So we ask ourselves, how do youdefine justice?
How do professionals in yourfield define justice?
And how are people in your fieldworking to advance justice, what
kinds of problems are theytrying to resolve?
So my students will frequentlychoose topics where things like
(03:37):
race and racism come up.
So for example, I have studentsfrom the school of Public Health
who are investigating how toaddress racial disparities in
the healthcare sector.
I've got Criminology studentslooking at mass incarceration
and how to address that.
How to tackle wealth disparityis a topic that comes up
frequently Or even, you know, ina lot of different fields, my
(03:59):
students will be asking, how dowe create a more diverse
workforce in this industry?
And how do we support folks frommarginalized backgrounds in this
workforce?
So they end up researching thedifferent valences of all of
these issues and looking at thecauses of these problems.
What are different scholars andprofessionals saying about how
to address it?
And make progress toward a morejust field or discipline.
Rachel (04:24):
Dr.
Berger, would you be interestedin telling us a little bit about
how we want to be inclusive ofinstructional modalities?
So can you talk about some ofyour experiences or
recommendations across differentinstructional modalities?
LaNitra (04:38):
Sure.
So last semester I taught twoclasses in the Art History
program.
One was an asynchronous onlinecourse called Survey of African
Art.
And in that course, I don't seethe students.
I don't really get to sit withthem one on one unless they ask
for an appointment, but I'mstill very committed to helping
(05:00):
them improve their writingskills.
In that course, I focus onsomething I call the Office Memo
Assignment, where the studentshave to argue a case before
their boss and they have todiscuss the famous Benin
Bronzes, the bronzes that werelooted by Europeans from West
Africa and taken to museums inEurope, and they have to argue
(05:23):
either for or against the returnof those bronzes back to West
Africa.
And that assignment is designedto be a short assignment.
They have to learn how todevelop an argument and argue it
persuasively using evidence inabout five to seven hundred
words.
As I remind them, a supervisordoesn't have time to read more
(05:45):
than that.
But the supervisor is relying onyou to give them the important
information that they need inorder to make a critical
decision.
So I'm trying to give themcareer readiness experience by
doing this writing assignment.
And it's challenging.
It's not easy.
Many of the students struggle,but in the process of doing this
(06:08):
assignment, they get to learnabout the issue.
They get to Think about theevidence for and against.
And most importantly, they haveto take a stand.
And their thinking may evolveover the course of the semester.
But at that particular moment,they need to take a stand and
they need to argue for that.
And that's something thatstudents struggle with when they
(06:29):
come to college is it's not justwriting a book report or a
summary of what you've read.
It's really.
Understanding arguments andunderstanding where you're
thinking fits in relationship tothose arguments, so that's one
that I enjoy assigning and Ienjoy reading because it really
pushes the students, but I cansee how they're learning.
Rachel (06:49):
That's such a great point here because what we're
really seeing is, like youmentioned Dr.
Berger, career readiness.
So, we might have somesituations where course content
or the topic is focused onsomething challenging.
So for instance, in ourconversation, it might be
focused on race and racism, orwe might have a different
(07:10):
situation in which the topicisn't related, but comes up in
class as part of the discussionor as part of something ongoing
or in an online class, in adiscussion board post, for
instance, so whatrecommendations do you all have
for faculty in these instancesin these perhaps two different
types of situations?
Courtney (07:31):
I think my recommendation as someone who
does teach a lot of studentswhere difficult topics in
general, kind of come uporganically because students
have a lot of freedom over whattopics they choose is to, both
for the faculty and the student,honestly, I recommend educating
yourselves about that topic asbest as possible, given your
(07:54):
limited time as a busy facultymember.
And sometimes there will bediscomforts around things that
might come up that you learnthat challenge your perspective
on something.
And so I think anotherrecommendation is really just to
be willing to sit with thatdiscomfort when you're
addressing students who arewriting about something
challenging.
(08:15):
And then finally too, I thinkit's just for students and
encouraging students to reallyreflect on why they've chosen to
write about a particular topic.
For instance, are they a memberof the community that's most
impacted by this topic, or arethey not?
And if not, what is theirconnection?
Why have they chosen to writeabout it?
(08:35):
Are they invested in raisingawareness around a particular
issue?
So the student's positionrelative to the topic is going
to influence how they writeabout it.
Your position as a facultymember relative the topic is
also going to influence how youreceive what your student is
writing about.
So making sure that both you andthe student are educating
(08:56):
yourselves and reflecting deeplyon reasons for engaging with the
topic and how you are respondingto the topic.
particularly if you're notdirectly impacted by it
yourself.
I think these are importantthings to keep in mind.
Richard (09:10):
Along with that, a key thing that usually I try to
practice, because we're talkingabout subject matters that are
often sensitive to any of us,just because we're human beings
and that's the nature of who weare, regardless of whether
they're talking about race, orif it's gender, if it's
socioeconomic, there are anumber of different spaces where
it touches us personally.
And one of the things I try tokeep in mind is don't take it
(09:32):
personal, and don't make itpersonal.
Just in regards to having theseconversations in class as well
as trying to encourage thewriting that happens outside of
class.
And I can think of specificallyteaching one course, and we were
talking in terms of style ofcommunication and code
switching, things of thisnature.
And a statement was made that,you know, Blacks in cause this
(09:53):
person came from Alabama and soBlacks in Alabama didn't code
switch as much or they didn'tobserve it.
I'm like,"Ehhhh, are you sureabout that?" And I could tell
that there were some students inthe class that were really
taking this like,"No, it'shappening more than you know,"
because they were looking at theother person in the state of
privilege or their thoughts, soreally trying to make sure that
everybody in the classroom wasnot taking it personally and
(10:15):
then trying to attack thatparticular student and making it
personal.
Just really getting into thespace of it's something that
happens not just for AfricanAmericans or Blacks in Alabama,
but it happens throughout theworld for different reasons and
different motivations.
We have to respect that andunderstand what those
motivations may be, what theoutcomes or the consequences
are.
So as opposed to making it verypersonal about us individually
(10:37):
or our particular communities,trying to appreciate how these
things may be happening beyondjust ourselves and impacting
others.
And I think that's one of thethings that helps students to
really engage or to at leasthopefully be open to learning
about someone else's experiencesas well as making sense of how
it impacts their ownexperiences.
LaNitra (10:58):
Richard, that's such a great, concise way to set up
some classroom boundaries andagreements.
It's very hard to write aboutthese topics or talk about them
in class without people feelingvulnerable or sensitive to the
topic at hand.
And once you go down that roadof feeling as though you've been
(11:19):
attacked, it's much harder to beopen minded and to listen to
other people's viewpoints.
So setting that baseline of howwe're going to operate in those
ground rules are very important.
In my classes, I do communityagreements where I ask the class
to come together and decide howthey're going to interact and
(11:41):
treat each other in the contextof the course.
And there are some basics thatthey need to follow, and they,
by and large, in all the classesI've taught, they've hit the
basics.
But when they come up with therules, they're more accountable
to themselves because they'vedecided that these are the
agreements that they're going tofollow, and we write those down
(12:02):
at the beginning of thesemester.
And if I do see either inwriting or in discussion that
they're transgressing some ofthese agreements, then I have
that for reference, and I can goback and say, Hey, remember, we
agreed that we weren't going toattack people personally in the
class.
That was one of our communityagreements, so let's not do that
again.
(12:22):
Because that makes it hard foreverybody to participate.
So, remembering that the facultymember is the authority in the
classroom.
And even if you don't knoweverything about something that
a student is writing about, youstill are the authority figure
and it is your responsibility toreally look at how students are
(12:43):
interacting with each other andmake sure that everyone is held
accountable to some sort ofstandard.
Rachel (12:50):
Yeah, that's particularly compelling when
we're thinking about how wecenter ideas and not people, how
we focus on the ideas, thecontent, and what we're bringing
to the class and building onthose conversations.
And I think as we seek to beinclusive here of everyone in
the classroom, acknowledgingthat the faculty member is not
(13:11):
only someone in the classroom,but can be harmed in those
spaces, I think is alsoparticularly important.
And as we're thinking aboutthis, we also have, perhaps with
different appointment types,different vulnerabilities for
the faculty members.
So these can be really highstress situations.
Do you have any advice forfaculty who have different
(13:33):
appointment types or who arehaving that stress of, you know,
students writing about or havingconversations about some of
these difficult topics?
Courtney (13:44):
So the one thing that comes to mind for me is there's
a saying in some of thecommunity spaces that I've been
in called stretch, don't strain.
So again, you know, discomfortis natural and going to happen.
And at the same time, we want tostretch, but we don't want to
(14:05):
strain ourselves so much that weplace ourselves in the line of
potential harm given whatevervulnerabilities we have as the
faculty member.
So I think it's important tojust be mindful of where your
boundaries are around the extentto which you're willing to
engage and pursue furtherpotentially challenging
(14:27):
conversations with a studentaround this kind of a topic.
So don't avoid it completely,but don't push yourself in a
direction that might cause youmore harm.
LaNitra (14:37):
I think this is a situation where you really need
a community and a network sothat you don't have to
internalize these situations byyourself.
Being able to talk with otherpeople who might understand and
might be able to help you atleast vocalize it to acknowledge
that it's a very painfulsituation, that can help you to
(15:01):
get through some of thesedifficult assignments.
As well as taking frequentbreaks.
Even when there's a lot ofgrading, don't grade 20
assignments in a row, becausenot only will it frustrate you
to have to go through that 20different times, but it's going
to make it hard for you to givequality feedback, since some of
(15:25):
these topics are emotional andthey are personal.
So I think that the communalaspect of this work is very
important.
And I'll also say that it isimportant for people to
understand that there aredifferent levels of privilege
and security in academia.
If anybody's listening who's notreally an academic, not
(15:46):
everybody has tenure.
And even once you have tenure,you're still trying to get
promoted.
So you're still accountable topeople who will make decisions
about the future of your career.
So there's always some sense ofinsecurity or concern about
teaching evaluations and studentcomplaints, and this
(16:06):
particularly acute for people ofcolor throughout academia.
So these are people who tend tobe teaching topics where this is
an issue.
So this is really systemic andsomething that people of color
face disproportionately inteaching these topics.
Richard (16:24):
I know that right now there have been a lot of
conversations in higher ed inthese spaces of teaching or
speaking or researching onmatters of marginalized groups
and communities.
So much so that I've recognizedthe stress within myself to some
degree, as well as withcolleagues.
And the community is important,going back to that, and having
individuals that you can reallydecompress with and that you may
(16:47):
still have concern, but you'retrying to figure out how to
respond to it individually andeven collectively how we as
faculty and, you know, for thebetterment of our students in
the whole campus environment canimprove or create a space that
is welcoming and encouraging,regardless of who you are in
your background.
And then lastly, the piece thatcame to mind with this portion
(17:08):
of the conversation is I had afew students ask me,"Do you ever
get depressed teaching what youteach or talking about the
subject matters that youapproach?" And I've told one or
two,"Honestly, like it can be alittle down putting sometimes,
but I honestly, where I find thehope is that they're that next
generation.
They're willing to engage this.
They're willing to continue thethoughts and the movements to
(17:31):
try and do something better." Soeven when I do have those
moments where it's like,"Ahhhh,gotta have this conversation
again," or"I can't believe thatthat was expressed," but there's
usually a student or a group ofstudents that respond and really
engages at a higher level ofthinking and movement as well.
And so that's where, you know,it's the idea of the promise
kind of comes into play inteaching and education.
Rachel (17:54):
Dr.
Massie, would you like to tellus a little bit about how we
give feedback, especiallywritten feedback to students?
Courtney (18:02):
Sure.
So at the writing center, whichis where I spend most of my
time, I spend a lot of timetraining consultants, how to
give feedback in differentmodalities too, because our
appointments are in person andon zoom and also asynchronous
written feedback where studentswill upload their draft and
we'll send them writtencomments.
And, I think in any situationwhere a student is writing about
(18:26):
a challenging topic and may ormay not, you know, wade into
some territory where they end upsaying some things that are a
little bit problematic.
One of the things we talk a lotabout in writing center training
and that I also try to practicein my own feedback in my class
is avoiding making assumptionsabout where the student might be
(18:46):
coming from or what their intentis, kind of assuming that the
student is well intentioned forthe most part.
I think it's been very rare thatI've seen just outright bigoted
or discriminatory arguments thatwere not made accidentally.
So I think first of all, justkind of checking your own
assumptions when you're givingfeedback.
(19:08):
And then a couple of otherpoints that we talk about are
responding as a reader.
So providing sort of genuinereader response about how the
statement is coming off to youas one reader, and then
encouraging them also to thinkin terms of their audience and
who might be reading this.
And so we kind of put all ofthese, tips together as far as
(19:28):
assume good intent, offer readerresponse, point out what you
notice, and then ask questions.
So for example, in writtenfeedback appointments, or even
in my own feedback to students,often a comment will look
something like,"You know, Idon't think this is really what
you meant, but to me as areader, this could be
interpreted as..." this is justan example but"maybe blaming a
(19:50):
particular marginalizedcommunity for their
circumstances.
And there's a lot of researchout there that shows that social
factors like x, y, and z are theprimary causes of these issues
rather than any sort of, youknow, individual behaviors or
characteristics." You can linkto resources, and then I'll say,
"Can you rephrase this toacknowledge these social factors
(20:12):
as well?
And that would help you avoidsounding like you're passing
judgment in a way that I don'tthink you're intending to." So
really just being attuned to howtheir writing comes off to
different audiences, differentgroups.
And a lot of the time,especially in my own class, when
I get to interact with mystudents again, they submit a
(20:33):
different draft, they go,"Oh mygoodness, I didn't mean that at
all.
I didn't realize it came offthat way.
So thank you so much for thefeedback." So it is, it's kind
of a combination of genuine sortof response as a reader,
encouraging them to think interms of audience, and then
asking questions that get themthinking about where their
statements are coming from andwhat evidence they are using and
(20:56):
how to rephrase in a way that ismore sensitive, more inclusive.
Richard (21:02):
As I was listening to Courtney and thinking back to a
student this was during the 2016presidential campaign, and I
remember the student put in thatdiscussion post"I may get an F
for putting this in there." Andit was"pro-Trump" in terms of
what her thoughts were andexpressed, and I told her in my
response,"Never feel that youwill get a failing grade because
you express yourself or yourideas, especially if you do it
(21:23):
succinctly and without being,you know, attacking or harmful
towards another person orindividual or anything of that
nature." And so I just simplyresponded with that and
responded with whatever mythoughts were on what she was
suggesting and how she may beable to elaborate on it,
something along that line, But Ithink the main thing also is for
students to recognize thatthey're not going to be
penalized for being themselves.
(21:44):
Going back to Courtney's point,they can have their thoughts.
They can have theirperspectives.
The only thing that I ask forthem is if you're going to have
that give some resources inregards to where you're pulling
this from, especially in anacademic setting.
Refer to the scholar, refer tothe theory, refer to something
as opposed to it just beingopinionated perspective.
That's the challenge that weoften try to give to them in
(22:05):
that space.
If you're going to tell me this,help me to understand where it's
coming from and why you'veadopted or gravitated towards
this.
LaNitra (22:14):
I agree completely with how feedback is given matters a
lot.
And that's also a form ofwriting.
So the students are learningfrom how you write the feedback
and because we're grading somany papers, and across so many
different classes, we don'talways have the time to give the
(22:35):
feedback that we want to theextent that we want.
So we have to be really mindfulas to how we're phrasing things.
A student could take a sentencethat we wrote as feedback the
wrong way and think,"Oh, I'm aterrible writer.
I shouldn't be writing.
My idea isn't good." So reallytrying to be a little more
(22:56):
emphatic with using exclamationpoints.
If it's a really good sentence,I will use an exclamation point
so they can understand that I'mcheering them on in their
writing and that they don't takeit the wrong way.
And I do when pieces aregreater, even when students have
improved if it was a C paper andit went up to a B plus, I'll
(23:18):
say,"Look, you have improved somuch.
I'm so proud of how far you'vecome." It may not have been the
best paper in the class.
But that particular student hasmade some improvements, and I
want them to be proud thatthey've made those improvements.
So it's really, it's, it'schallenging.
I'm not gonna lie.
I'm not gonna make it sound likeit's not.
(23:38):
We're all working, a lot.
We're teaching more classes.
We're trying to grade morepapers.
We're being asked to helpstudents improve their writing
by employers.
So there's a lot that we'retrying to do in the classroom.
And I think, by and large,students are coming with good
intentions to the classroom.
They are trying to learn, andfaculty are trying to help
(24:01):
students become better students,better graduates, better
citizens.
It's hard.
It's hard for everybody around,and I think that we're doing the
best that we can, so to giveourselves that grace that we're
doing our best is alsoimportant.
Rachel (24:19):
Absolutely.
This is the hard work.
This is the feedback.
These are the challenging numberof hours.
This is everything.
As we're looking at how studentsexpress themselves, how we help
students bring their wholeselves and we bring our whole
selves that are relevant to theclassroom into these spaces.
So as we wrap up today, couldone of you summarize in a
(24:41):
sentence or two how you feelthis represents a keystone
concept in teaching?
Richard (24:49):
I think LaNitra said it best, and you as well, Rachel.
This is the hard work.
I have this saying in terms ofCommunication, our area of
discipline,"Communication is theart and the science of being
human." And that's the hardthing in terms of navigating
life and understanding.
We are all very different, butwe're similar in a lot of ways
(25:09):
and trying to recognize thosethings and communicate and have
engagement.
And so spaces of our nature inclassrooms and in writing our
intent to help develop andimprove individuals and
societies collectively.
Rachel (25:25):
Thank you, Dr.
Craig.
And thank you so much, Dr.
Berger, Dr.
Craig, Dr.
Massie, for joining us for thisepisode.
I really appreciate your time.
And we can't wait to share ournext episode with you in two
weeks on Keystone Concepts inTeaching.
So thank you so much.
Hello and welcome to Keystone Concepts in Teaching, a
higher education podcast fromthe Stearns Center for Teaching
and Learning, where we shareimpactful and evidence based
teaching practices to supportall students and faculty.
I'm your host, Rachel Yoho.
In this episode, we're going tobe discussing writing about
challenging topics.
I'm joined by three specialguests today.
(00:29):
Our first guest is Dr.
LaNitra Berger, AssociateProfessor of History and Art
History and Director of Africanand African American Studies at
George Mason University.
Dr.
Richard Craig is an AssociateProfessor of Communication and
the Associate Chair ofCommunication in the College of
Humanities and Social Sciencesat George Mason University.
And our third guest today is Dr.
(00:51):
Courtney Massie.
Courtney is the AssistantDirector of the Writing Center
at George Mason University.
As Assistant Director, Dr.
Massie manages the Center'soperations, supervises and
mentors the Center's staff, andteaches advanced composition.
So thank you so much, all threeof you, for joining us today.
(01:12):
So we want to talk today aboutwriting about challenging
topics.
But let's take this, as we startour conversation, from a broad
context.
We'll use race and racism as ourcore example for the discussion.
Could you tell us a little bitabout a class that you've taught
recently?
Richard (01:29):
Sure, usually in the summer times, I have a regular
course that I teach.
It's Gender, Race, and Class inthe Media.
And I actually teach that whereit's cross listed, where I have
undergraduate students as wellas graduate students enrolled in
the course.
And so it offers some realdynamic discussions.
LaNitra (01:47):
So, like Richard, I teach a lot of classes that are
connected to race, and as hesaid, one of the great parts of
teaching at Mason is that youhave a lot of different types of
students in the classroom.
They range in age, they range ingeographic origins, they range
in different types ofexperience.
Some are veterans, some areretired.
(02:08):
Some are your, you know, 18 to24 year olds, and when you bring
all of those people together inthe classroom, you have really
impactful conversations.
One class that I've taughtrecently is the intro class to
African American studies.
It's called AFAM 200.
A lot of students take it andlove it no matter who teaches
it, and it really becomes a veryimportant class in shaping their
(02:31):
worldview.
Courtney (02:33):
And I teach advanced composition English 302, which
is basically a class about howto do research and write in your
academic discipline, your major,your field of study, For the
last four years, since thepandemic hit, I've been teaching
fully online asynchronous.
I get students from alldisciplines and majors since my
(02:53):
section that I teach ismultidisciplinary, so basically,
any major can take the course,and I get all types of students
as well, like my colleagues.
So because it's a class where weexamine what's going on in your
particular field, I ask studentskind of how are professionals in
your field, scholars in yourfield, trying to address current
(03:15):
issues or problems in yourfield?
And often that has to do withadvancing justice in some kind
of way.
So we ask ourselves, how do youdefine justice?
How do professionals in yourfield define justice?
And how are people in your fieldworking to advance justice, what
kinds of problems are theytrying to resolve?
So my students will frequentlychoose topics where things like
(03:37):
race and racism come up.
So for example, I have studentsfrom the school of Public Health
who are investigating how toaddress racial disparities in
the healthcare sector.
I've got Criminology studentslooking at mass incarceration
and how to address that.
How to tackle wealth disparityis a topic that comes up
frequently Or even, you know, ina lot of different fields, my
(03:59):
students will be asking, how dowe create a more diverse
workforce in this industry?
And how do we support folks frommarginalized backgrounds in this
workforce?
So they end up researching thedifferent valences of all of
these issues and looking at thecauses of these problems.
What are different scholars andprofessionals saying about how
to address it?
And make progress toward a morejust field or discipline.
Rachel (04:24):
Dr.
Berger, would you be interestedin telling us a little bit about
how we want to be inclusive ofinstructional modalities?
So can you talk about some ofyour experiences or
recommendations across differentinstructional modalities?
LaNitra (04:38):
Sure.
So last semester I taught twoclasses in the Art History
program.
One was an asynchronous onlinecourse called Survey of African
Art.
And in that course, I don't seethe students.
I don't really get to sit withthem one on one unless they ask
for an appointment, but I'mstill very committed to helping
(05:00):
them improve their writingskills.
In that course, I focus onsomething I call the Office Memo
Assignment, where the studentshave to argue a case before
their boss and they have todiscuss the famous Benin
Bronzes, the bronzes that werelooted by Europeans from West
Africa and taken to museums inEurope, and they have to argue
(05:23):
either for or against the returnof those bronzes back to West
Africa.
And that assignment is designedto be a short assignment.
They have to learn how todevelop an argument and argue it
persuasively using evidence inabout five to seven hundred
words.
As I remind them, a supervisordoesn't have time to read more
(05:45):
than that.
But the supervisor is relying onyou to give them the important
information that they need inorder to make a critical
decision.
So I'm trying to give themcareer readiness experience by
doing this writing assignment.
And it's challenging.
It's not easy.
Many of the students struggle,but in the process of doing this
(06:08):
assignment, they get to learnabout the issue.
They get to Think about theevidence for and against.
And most importantly, they haveto take a stand.
And their thinking may evolveover the course of the semester.
But at that particular moment,they need to take a stand and
they need to argue for that.
And that's something thatstudents struggle with when they
(06:29):
come to college is it's not justwriting a book report or a
summary of what you've read.
It's really.
Understanding arguments andunderstanding where you're
thinking fits in relationship tothose arguments, so that's one
that I enjoy assigning and Ienjoy reading because it really
pushes the students, but I cansee how they're learning.
Rachel (06:49):
That's such a great point here because what we're
really seeing is, like youmentioned Dr.
Berger, career readiness.
So, we might have somesituations where course content
or the topic is focused onsomething challenging.
So for instance, in ourconversation, it might be
focused on race and racism, orwe might have a different
(07:10):
situation in which the topicisn't related, but comes up in
class as part of the discussionor as part of something ongoing
or in an online class, in adiscussion board post, for
instance, so whatrecommendations do you all have
for faculty in these instancesin these perhaps two different
types of situations?
Courtney (07:31):
I think my recommendation as someone who
does teach a lot of studentswhere difficult topics in
general, kind of come uporganically because students
have a lot of freedom over whattopics they choose is to, both
for the faculty and the student,honestly, I recommend educating
yourselves about that topic asbest as possible, given your
(07:54):
limited time as a busy facultymember.
And sometimes there will bediscomforts around things that
might come up that you learnthat challenge your perspective
on something.
And so I think anotherrecommendation is really just to
be willing to sit with thatdiscomfort when you're
addressing students who arewriting about something
challenging.
(08:15):
And then finally too, I thinkit's just for students and
encouraging students to reallyreflect on why they've chosen to
write about a particular topic.
For instance, are they a memberof the community that's most
impacted by this topic, or arethey not?
And if not, what is theirconnection?
Why have they chosen to writeabout it?
(08:35):
Are they invested in raisingawareness around a particular
issue?
So the student's positionrelative to the topic is going
to influence how they writeabout it.
Your position as a facultymember relative the topic is
also going to influence how youreceive what your student is
writing about.
So making sure that both you andthe student are educating
(08:56):
yourselves and reflecting deeplyon reasons for engaging with the
topic and how you are respondingto the topic.
particularly if you're notdirectly impacted by it
yourself.
I think these are importantthings to keep in mind.
Richard (09:10):
Along with that, a key thing that usually I try to
practice, because we're talkingabout subject matters that are
often sensitive to any of us,just because we're human beings
and that's the nature of who weare, regardless of whether
they're talking about race, orif it's gender, if it's
socioeconomic, there are anumber of different spaces where
it touches us personally.
And one of the things I try tokeep in mind is don't take it
(09:32):
personal, and don't make itpersonal.
Just in regards to having theseconversations in class as well
as trying to encourage thewriting that happens outside of
class.
And I can think of specificallyteaching one course, and we were
talking in terms of style ofcommunication and code
switching, things of thisnature.
And a statement was made that,you know, Blacks in cause this
(09:53):
person came from Alabama and soBlacks in Alabama didn't code
switch as much or they didn'tobserve it.
I'm like,"Ehhhh, are you sureabout that?" And I could tell
that there were some students inthe class that were really
taking this like,"No, it'shappening more than you know,"
because they were looking at theother person in the state of
privilege or their thoughts, soreally trying to make sure that
everybody in the classroom wasnot taking it personally and
(10:15):
then trying to attack thatparticular student and making it
personal.
Just really getting into thespace of it's something that
happens not just for AfricanAmericans or Blacks in Alabama,
but it happens throughout theworld for different reasons and
different motivations.
We have to respect that andunderstand what those
motivations may be, what theoutcomes or the consequences
are.
So as opposed to making it verypersonal about us individually
(10:37):
or our particular communities,trying to appreciate how these
things may be happening beyondjust ourselves and impacting
others.
And I think that's one of thethings that helps students to
really engage or to at leasthopefully be open to learning
about someone else's experiencesas well as making sense of how
it impacts their ownexperiences.
LaNitra (10:58):
Richard, that's such a great, concise way to set up
some classroom boundaries andagreements.
It's very hard to write aboutthese topics or talk about them
in class without people feelingvulnerable or sensitive to the
topic at hand.
And once you go down that roadof feeling as though you've been
(11:19):
attacked, it's much harder to beopen minded and to listen to
other people's viewpoints.
So setting that baseline of howwe're going to operate in those
ground rules are very important.
In my classes, I do communityagreements where I ask the class
to come together and decide howthey're going to interact and
(11:41):
treat each other in the contextof the course.
And there are some basics thatthey need to follow, and they,
by and large, in all the classesI've taught, they've hit the
basics.
But when they come up with therules, they're more accountable
to themselves because they'vedecided that these are the
agreements that they're going tofollow, and we write those down
(12:02):
at the beginning of thesemester.
And if I do see either inwriting or in discussion that
they're transgressing some ofthese agreements, then I have
that for reference, and I can goback and say, Hey, remember, we
agreed that we weren't going toattack people personally in the
class.
That was one of our communityagreements, so let's not do that
again.
(12:22):
Because that makes it hard foreverybody to participate.
So, remembering that the facultymember is the authority in the
classroom.
And even if you don't knoweverything about something that
a student is writing about, youstill are the authority figure
and it is your responsibility toreally look at how students are
(12:43):
interacting with each other andmake sure that everyone is held
accountable to some sort ofstandard.
Rachel (12:50):
Yeah, that's particularly compelling when
we're thinking about how wecenter ideas and not people, how
we focus on the ideas, thecontent, and what we're bringing
to the class and building onthose conversations.
And I think as we seek to beinclusive here of everyone in
the classroom, acknowledgingthat the faculty member is not
(13:11):
only someone in the classroom,but can be harmed in those
spaces, I think is alsoparticularly important.
And as we're thinking aboutthis, we also have, perhaps with
different appointment types,different vulnerabilities for
the faculty members.
So these can be really highstress situations.
Do you have any advice forfaculty who have different
(13:33):
appointment types or who arehaving that stress of, you know,
students writing about or havingconversations about some of
these difficult topics?
Courtney (13:44):
So the one thing that comes to mind for me is there's
a saying in some of thecommunity spaces that I've been
in called stretch, don't strain.
So again, you know, discomfortis natural and going to happen.
And at the same time, we want tostretch, but we don't want to
(14:05):
strain ourselves so much that weplace ourselves in the line of
potential harm given whatevervulnerabilities we have as the
faculty member.
So I think it's important tojust be mindful of where your
boundaries are around the extentto which you're willing to
engage and pursue furtherpotentially challenging
(14:27):
conversations with a studentaround this kind of a topic.
So don't avoid it completely,but don't push yourself in a
direction that might cause youmore harm.
LaNitra (14:37):
I think this is a situation where you really need
a community and a network sothat you don't have to
internalize these situations byyourself.
Being able to talk with otherpeople who might understand and
might be able to help you atleast vocalize it to acknowledge
that it's a very painfulsituation, that can help you to
(15:01):
get through some of thesedifficult assignments.
As well as taking frequentbreaks.
Even when there's a lot ofgrading, don't grade 20
assignments in a row, becausenot only will it frustrate you
to have to go through that 20different times, but it's going
to make it hard for you to givequality feedback, since some of
(15:25):
these topics are emotional andthey are personal.
So I think that the communalaspect of this work is very
important.
And I'll also say that it isimportant for people to
understand that there aredifferent levels of privilege
and security in academia.
If anybody's listening who's notreally an academic, not
(15:46):
everybody has tenure.
And even once you have tenure,you're still trying to get
promoted.
So you're still accountable topeople who will make decisions
about the future of your career.
So there's always some sense ofinsecurity or concern about
teaching evaluations and studentcomplaints, and this
(16:06):
particularly acute for people ofcolor throughout academia.
So these are people who tend tobe teaching topics where this is
an issue.
So this is really systemic andsomething that people of color
face disproportionately inteaching these topics.
Richard (16:24):
I know that right now there have been a lot of
conversations in higher ed inthese spaces of teaching or
speaking or researching onmatters of marginalized groups
and communities.
So much so that I've recognizedthe stress within myself to some
degree, as well as withcolleagues.
And the community is important,going back to that, and having
individuals that you can reallydecompress with and that you may
(16:47):
still have concern, but you'retrying to figure out how to
respond to it individually andeven collectively how we as
faculty and, you know, for thebetterment of our students in
the whole campus environment canimprove or create a space that
is welcoming and encouraging,regardless of who you are in
your background.
And then lastly, the piece thatcame to mind with this portion
(17:08):
of the conversation is I had afew students ask me,"Do you ever
get depressed teaching what youteach or talking about the
subject matters that youapproach?" And I've told one or
two,"Honestly, like it can be alittle down putting sometimes,
but I honestly, where I find thehope is that they're that next
generation.
They're willing to engage this.
They're willing to continue thethoughts and the movements to
(17:31):
try and do something better." Soeven when I do have those
moments where it's like,"Ahhhh,gotta have this conversation
again," or"I can't believe thatthat was expressed," but there's
usually a student or a group ofstudents that respond and really
engages at a higher level ofthinking and movement as well.
And so that's where, you know,it's the idea of the promise
kind of comes into play inteaching and education.
Rachel (17:54):
Dr.
Massie, would you like to tellus a little bit about how we
give feedback, especiallywritten feedback to students?
Courtney (18:02):
Sure.
So at the writing center, whichis where I spend most of my
time, I spend a lot of timetraining consultants, how to
give feedback in differentmodalities too, because our
appointments are in person andon zoom and also asynchronous
written feedback where studentswill upload their draft and
we'll send them writtencomments.
And, I think in any situationwhere a student is writing about
(18:26):
a challenging topic and may ormay not, you know, wade into
some territory where they end upsaying some things that are a
little bit problematic.
One of the things we talk a lotabout in writing center training
and that I also try to practicein my own feedback in my class
is avoiding making assumptionsabout where the student might be
(18:46):
coming from or what their intentis, kind of assuming that the
student is well intentioned forthe most part.
I think it's been very rare thatI've seen just outright bigoted
or discriminatory arguments thatwere not made accidentally.
So I think first of all, justkind of checking your own
assumptions when you're givingfeedback.
(19:08):
And then a couple of otherpoints that we talk about are
responding as a reader.
So providing sort of genuinereader response about how the
statement is coming off to youas one reader, and then
encouraging them also to thinkin terms of their audience and
who might be reading this.
And so we kind of put all ofthese, tips together as far as
(19:28):
assume good intent, offer readerresponse, point out what you
notice, and then ask questions.
So for example, in writtenfeedback appointments, or even
in my own feedback to students,often a comment will look
something like,"You know, Idon't think this is really what
you meant, but to me as areader, this could be
interpreted as..." this is justan example but"maybe blaming a
(19:50):
particular marginalizedcommunity for their
circumstances.
And there's a lot of researchout there that shows that social
factors like x, y, and z are theprimary causes of these issues
rather than any sort of, youknow, individual behaviors or
characteristics." You can linkto resources, and then I'll say,
"Can you rephrase this toacknowledge these social factors
(20:12):
as well?
And that would help you avoidsounding like you're passing
judgment in a way that I don'tthink you're intending to." So
really just being attuned to howtheir writing comes off to
different audiences, differentgroups.
And a lot of the time,especially in my own class, when
I get to interact with mystudents again, they submit a
(20:33):
different draft, they go,"Oh mygoodness, I didn't mean that at
all.
I didn't realize it came offthat way.
So thank you so much for thefeedback." So it is, it's kind
of a combination of genuine sortof response as a reader,
encouraging them to think interms of audience, and then
asking questions that get themthinking about where their
statements are coming from andwhat evidence they are using and
(20:56):
how to rephrase in a way that ismore sensitive, more inclusive.
Richard (21:02):
As I was listening to Courtney and thinking back to a
student this was during the 2016presidential campaign, and I
remember the student put in thatdiscussion post"I may get an F
for putting this in there." Andit was"pro-Trump" in terms of
what her thoughts were andexpressed, and I told her in my
response,"Never feel that youwill get a failing grade because
you express yourself or yourideas, especially if you do it
(21:23):
succinctly and without being,you know, attacking or harmful
towards another person orindividual or anything of that
nature." And so I just simplyresponded with that and
responded with whatever mythoughts were on what she was
suggesting and how she may beable to elaborate on it,
something along that line, But Ithink the main thing also is for
students to recognize thatthey're not going to be
penalized for being themselves.
(21:44):
Going back to Courtney's point,they can have their thoughts.
They can have theirperspectives.
The only thing that I ask forthem is if you're going to have
that give some resources inregards to where you're pulling
this from, especially in anacademic setting.
Refer to the scholar, refer tothe theory, refer to something
as opposed to it just beingopinionated perspective.
That's the challenge that weoften try to give to them in
(22:05):
that space.
If you're going to tell me this,help me to understand where it's
coming from and why you'veadopted or gravitated towards
this.
LaNitra (22:14):
I agree completely with how feedback is given matters a
lot.
And that's also a form ofwriting.
So the students are learningfrom how you write the feedback
and because we're grading somany papers, and across so many
different classes, we don'talways have the time to give the
(22:35):
feedback that we want to theextent that we want.
So we have to be really mindfulas to how we're phrasing things.
A student could take a sentencethat we wrote as feedback the
wrong way and think,"Oh, I'm aterrible writer.
I shouldn't be writing.
My idea isn't good." So reallytrying to be a little more
(22:56):
emphatic with using exclamationpoints.
If it's a really good sentence,I will use an exclamation point
so they can understand that I'mcheering them on in their
writing and that they don't takeit the wrong way.
And I do when pieces aregreater, even when students have
improved if it was a C paper andit went up to a B plus, I'll
(23:18):
say,"Look, you have improved somuch.
I'm so proud of how far you'vecome." It may not have been the
best paper in the class.
But that particular student hasmade some improvements, and I
want them to be proud thatthey've made those improvements.
So it's really, it's, it'schallenging.
I'm not gonna lie.
I'm not gonna make it sound likeit's not.
(23:38):
We're all working, a lot.
We're teaching more classes.
We're trying to grade morepapers.
We're being asked to helpstudents improve their writing
by employers.
So there's a lot that we'retrying to do in the classroom.
And I think, by and large,students are coming with good
intentions to the classroom.
They are trying to learn, andfaculty are trying to help
(24:01):
students become better students,better graduates, better
citizens.
It's hard.
It's hard for everybody around,and I think that we're doing the
best that we can, so to giveourselves that grace that we're
doing our best is alsoimportant.
Rachel (24:19):
Absolutely.
This is the hard work.
This is the feedback.
These are the challenging numberof hours.
This is everything.
As we're looking at how studentsexpress themselves, how we help
students bring their wholeselves and we bring our whole
selves that are relevant to theclassroom into these spaces.
So as we wrap up today, couldone of you summarize in a
(24:41):
sentence or two how you feelthis represents a keystone
concept in teaching?
Richard (24:49):
I think LaNitra said it best, and you as well, Rachel.
This is the hard work.
I have this saying in terms ofCommunication, our area of
discipline,"Communication is theart and the science of being
human." And that's the hardthing in terms of navigating
life and understanding.
We are all very different, butwe're similar in a lot of ways
(25:09):
and trying to recognize thosethings and communicate and have
engagement.
And so spaces of our nature inclassrooms and in writing our
intent to help develop andimprove individuals and
societies collectively.
Rachel (25:25):
Thank you, Dr.
Craig.
And thank you so much, Dr.
Berger, Dr.
Craig, Dr.
Massie, for joining us for thisepisode.
I really appreciate your time.
And we can't wait to share ournext episode with you in two
weeks on Keystone Concepts inTeaching.
So thank you so much.
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