May 14, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode, two inspiring Mason Korea faculty members, John David McGrew and Dr. Deborah Kwak, join your host, Dr. Rachel Yoho, to explore key considerations for teaching at an international campus of a US university, as well as what has inspired them lately.
Resource: https://masonkorea.gmu.edu
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Episode Transcript
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Rachel (00:08):
Hello and welcome to Keystone Concepts in Teaching.
I'm your host, Rachel Yoho.
And this is a podcast from theStearns Center for Teaching and
Learning at George MasonUniversity, where we share
impactful and evidence-basedteaching practices to support
all students and faculty.
I'm very excited to be joined bythis episode's guests who are
(00:29):
both from Mason Korea.
We are joined by Professor JohnDavid McGrew, and we are joined
by Dr.
Deborah Kwak.
So thank you so much to both ofyou for joining us.
I'm very excited to chat withyou today.
Deborah (00:45):
Good to be here.
John David (00:46):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having us.
Rachel (00:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what we wanted to talk aboutin this episode is really what
teaching at Mason Korea, at thistype of international campus of
a US based university, not onlyis like, but also what we can
share with perhaps people whomight be interested in teaching
at Mason Korea or what thatreally teaches us about teaching
(01:10):
in general, so that broadaudience for both Mason Korea
faculty and US based or otherareas based faculty.
Can one of you start us off withtelling us a little bit about
your teaching experience atMason Korea?
Deborah (01:27):
Yeah, so, I'm entering my fifth year at Mason Korea,
and I usually teach my area ormy discipline is sociology, and
then peace and conflict.
So usually I teach sociologycourses, also criminal justice
courses.
And then in my first two yearsI've been teaching peace and
conflict courses as well.
(01:48):
And then the number of studentsper course, you know, 25 to 30
is very typical for me.
And then smaller classessometimes range from 10 to 15
students.
And most of the time this ishigher level, you know, 300
level courses, sociologycourses.
John David (02:04):
I have taught in the Computer Game Design program
here at Mason Korea for aboutfour years.
My specialty is in 3D modeling,animation, and digital art.
So all the courses I teach aremajor courses.
Typically I have around 10 to 25students per class.
Rachel (02:21):
Thank you both so much.
So we're interested in talkingwith our audience about teaching
at Mason Korea, right?
So whether they're already partof the community there, or
simply other Mason faculty, orperhaps other faculty at other
institutions who may havecampuses and other parts of the
world as well.
So what can you tell us fromyour perspective, from your
(02:42):
substantial years of experience,you know, what do you think are
some of the most importantconsiderations or perhaps maybe
some recommendations aboutteaching in that particular
community with Mason Korea?
Deborah (02:56):
So I've taught in another institution before and I
was thinking about what arekinda the unique strengths of
Mason Korea, and in talking toan audience who might be
interested in Mason Korea, Ithink there are several factors.
So first of all, I think, MasonKorea's faculty, many if not all
(03:17):
of them, are very enthusiasticabout teaching and making sure
that our students are learningand that they're engaged in the
classroom.
And so I think the level ofenthusiasm is very high within
the Mason Korea community.
The other thing that I wanted tosay is I think our Mason Korea
community of students, most ofthem are very academically high
(03:41):
achieving students.
And so the majority of them areKorean students, although we do
have a small number ofinternational students.
But, you know, these arestudents who have been told all
their life that, you know,learning and education is really
important and that it willdetermine their opportunities in
their life and in their future.
(04:02):
And so very much concerned aboutgrades, very invested in the
classroom.
So I think that's one important,unique factor that Mason Korea
has.
And then I wanted to say that,and this is connected to the
first point that I talked about,which is that, you know, faculty
are very enthusiastic aboutteaching, is collegiality.
And so collegiality aroundteaching.
(04:24):
And so we have kind of allaround our community, small
groups of faculty who supporteach other in teaching.
We also sometimes observe eachother's classrooms.
And it doesn't have to be thesame discipline.
For example in my program, whichis the non-major courses in the
CHSS program.
So we do monthly kinda smallteaching or sharing of small
(04:48):
teaching practices.
And so we talk about ourteaching all of the time.
We talk about our classroom andstudents all of the time and how
we can be better teachersbasically.
Right?
And so, collegiality.
And then I think the last thingI wanted to mention was because
we're so much into teaching,even our research agendas are
related to teaching, right?
So many of us were engaged inmentoring undergraduates in
(05:12):
scholarship and doing researchthemselves.
And then for our own research,we do engage in teaching and
learning scholarships.
So if you are interested injoining Mason Korea, I think
that's an area where they cankind of pursue in their
research.
Rachel (05:28):
Yeah, that's great.
I mean, we definitely have a lotof engagement also between the
Fairfax campus and Mason Korea.
I personally enjoy working withthe Mason Korea instructor
community a great deal as well.
And I've definitely noticed aswell with some of our different
areas, you know, like youmentioned, CHSS, like the
College of Humanities and SocialSciences or certain other areas,
(05:49):
really tend to have very closeinstructor and instructional
interest communities.
That's great.
I appreciate your mentioningthat, but yeah, John, do you
wanna tell us a little bit moreabout some of your experiences
as well, or your thoughts here?
John David (06:03):
Yeah, I might echo some of what Deborah just said,
but even though a large portionof our student body is our
domestic students from Korea,many of them have an
international experience.
So there's a really rich, notonly a rich Korean culture here,
but there's a rich internationalculture.
Some of these students havestudied overseas, or they've
lived overseas, all around theworld.
(06:24):
And so there's a lot to draw onthere, I think.
Korea of itself has a reallybeautiful culture, but just
bringing in all those differentexperiences makes this a very
nice experience.
That being said, because weteach an environment where we
have a majority of students thatare speaking English as a second
language, we have to think aboutjust the general accommodation
(06:44):
that we need to have in theclassroom.
How do we pace our lessons?
How do we make things moreconcise and clear?
How do we create opportunitiesfor students that may be
struggling to follow class thatthey have a secondary option of
keeping up with the course andthe course content?
So those are some of thechallenges that I didn't see,
(07:06):
didn't quite understand maybecoming in that I've come to
understand better as I'veinteracted with students and
tried to connect with them andhelp them grow and become more
versed in my content area.
Rachel (07:21):
I appreciate your sharing there.
We had another episode in ourprevious season talking about
multilingualism and how thatimpacts education.
But I think that's such a greatpoint that people might not be
thinking about as they'relistening about the Mason Korea
campus and thinking veryspecifically about our
multilingual students.
So that's such a great point.
And I think this also kind ofleads me into our next question.
(07:45):
Can you maybe expand on this alittle bit or perhaps compare
and contrast the Korean contextfor teaching maybe broadly or
perhaps the US universityinternational campus type of
context.
Because both of you, you know,have teaching experience in
other parts of the world aswell.
Deborah (08:06):
I think this is an interesting question.
I mean definitely because myprevious institution was in the
US in Canton, Ohio, and I thinkthere is many similarities in
terms of, in Korea having thisAmerican education, higher
education system in Korea, Imean, that's definitely what you
would see at Mason Korea.
(08:26):
Having said that, I thinkbecause we are located in Korea,
there are many creative waysthat we could take the same
content materials and maybeprovide kind of other
opportunities for students inthe classroom.
So for example, in myintroduction to criminal justice
classroom, we talk aboutcorrections and the interesting
(08:48):
thing is this is a completelyAmerican context classroom,
right?
American context, criminaljustice.
And so it's the same material.
I use the same textbook.
A lot of the times it's the sameonline resources.
Having said that, for example,when I talk about juveniles,
because the topic of juvenilejustice is very controversial
and pretty big in Korea rightnow.
(09:08):
A lot of the public perception,for example, is that, you know,
we are being very lenienttowards the juveniles in the
justice system.
So I know this context, I alsowanna bring that debate into the
classroom and I encourage mystudents to share their own
perspectives and opinions.
But then also I wanna kind ofbring more evidence, for
(09:29):
example, about brain researchand ask them to be critical of
their own perspectives.
Right?
The other thing that I try to dois kind of make it career
specific.
So like when we talk aboutcorrections, I want them to
visit, and I do, this is aself-guided field trip where
they go to a Korean correctionsfacility.
It's a historical facility, sonow it's changed into a museum.
(09:50):
And so they have to all go andthink about the concept of
social construction, right?
So it's the same concept, but ina way I provide an experiential
learning opportunity that isvery career specific and that
you can't get anywhere else.
John David (10:05):
Just maybe expanding a bit on what was said before.
I try to provide students withopportunity to make mistakes in
the classroom.
Most of the things that we doare not one and done, either
through providing them withopportunities to turn in drafts
beforehand, or milestones oreven resubmit work to correct
some of the issues that werefound in the original
(10:25):
submission.
Also, I found that students heretend to be a little bit in
general, tend to be a little bitmore reserved in opening up and
engaging in class.
And so I also try to providestudents with an opportunity to
have time to take things in anddigest them and prepare how
they're going to speak.
(10:46):
So if I plan a discussion, atleast the class before or even a
week before, I give themdiscussion questions to look
over, so that they are preparedduring class to be able to say
those things.
Because many people, even intheir native language, they find
it hard to respond to aquestion, particularly in an
academic setting, just off thecuff.
(11:09):
And having said that, idiom,that's something else that maybe
I, I need to work on is tryingto restrain myself from using
colloquialisms and idioms in theclassroom without at least
explaining what's going on.
So I have to rewrite all myjokes as well.
Um, or otherwise, it's acomplete silence anytime they're
(11:30):
delivered.
Rachel (11:31):
Complete silence.
A lot of explaining.
Yeah.
No, makes sense.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Deborah (11:36):
I wanted to add to John's point because it's really
good.
And I think this is kind ofgoing back to his point about,
you know, teaching bilingualstudents and then trying to come
up with these creativeaccommodations that work for our
majority student population.
I think it's important to,perhaps, mention that a lot of
these students who have gone toKorean public schools have had
(11:59):
this education style or learningstyle in the classroom where
their perspectives were notreally considered as important.
It's not really important totalk about what you think, but
it's more important to listen toyour teacher and just kind of
digest that and then performthrough tests.
Right?
And so we have many of thesestudents in our classroom.
(12:20):
And in a way they're challengingthemselves because they put
themselves, and their parentsalso investing in, you know,
putting themselves in thatsituation where they have to do
something completely differentfrom what they're very much used
to all their lives.
Right.
So I think I really appreciateJohn's perspective where, you
know, as a teacher, as aprofessor, you have to always
(12:41):
remind yourself that that's thecontext where in which they come
from.
And then of course, over time,you do see them grow into really
considering their ownperspectives.
Like my opinions, what I think,even if it's half-baked
thoughts, like it's important.
And then, and then now I'minterested in what my peers
think.
Right?
And so, really kind of thinkingabout ways in which to do that.
(13:03):
I was also gonna add and saythat, in my SOCI 101, I do
structure discussion.
And structure discussion isreally important for my students
because they can prepare inadvance.
Right?
And so when they come into theclassroom and do small group
discussion, I don't give themlike open-ended questions, like
right then and there, butthey've already prepared, and I
(13:23):
tell them, you shouldn't beafraid to share because you've
written it and you should justshare what you have in front of
you.
So I think that does help inreducing student anxiety,
somewhat.
Rachel (13:36):
That's such a compelling point when we're thinking about
the move from that type ofeducational system into a little
bit more active or a little bitmore engaged style.
And also even then, when we'rethinking about bringing in those
elements of reflection or thestudent's positionality, or the
students even just a perspectiveon a particular topic and the
(13:57):
challenges there.
I really like how you'redescribing like that sort of
stepwise process and helping notonly with some of the
multilingual or the bilingualaspects, but also the
preparation, the interest insharing.
That's really important.
So I guess as we continue on,I'd be really interested in your
thoughts, maybe somethingrecently or perhaps mildly
(14:19):
recently that has inspired youin your teaching that you'd be
interested in sharing.
John David (14:26):
I recently taught a course where the students were
very excited to learn.
This isn't necessarilycompletely unique, but, uh, the
level of excitement
Rachel (14:37):
Hopefully not.
John David (14:40):
the level of excitement I think was unique
and the student's desire toreally expand on what was being
taught outside of class.
Asking for resources and ways inwhich they could take what they
learned in class and then buildupon that just in their own
individual projects, I think wasreally inspiring and just
reminded me, yeah, I really doneed to spend more time really
(15:01):
sparking that excitement andstudents.
I teach in a, an exciting area,computer game design, and I,
games are supposed to
Rachel (15:09):
A very cool area.
John David (15:12):
Yeah, games are supposed to be fun.
So I bring some of that fun intoteaching how to build those
games.
I think was another just a goodreminder to me and a good
inspiration to move forward andcarry that excitement with me
and help the students hopefullyalso catch hold of that.
Deborah (15:32):
Yeah, I think my mine is also pretty similar to
John's.
This is my fifth year ofteaching at Mason Korea and, you
know, usually, although I makesome adjustments depending on
the student group that I havethat semester, a lot of the
times, you know, many thingsthat we say and do and the
activities and assignments arevery similar or same.
But having said that, I think itreally matters and I really
(15:53):
believe in student professorinteractions because if you see
that students are engaged inyour classroom and with the
activities that you give them,then you as a professor, of
course, will become enthusiasticand more enthusiastic about
supporting those students.
And so, recently a couple ofthem, my SOCI 101, they went out
and they conducted anobservation.
And so they're supposed to writeethnographic field notes after
(16:16):
the 40 minute silent observationthat they're supposed to do.
And it's a 10 point assignment.
And when students submittedthem, out of the, you know, 35
students, like I think around,seven or so, wrote some really
excellent detailed field notes.
Including their reflections andthen possibly merging research
(16:36):
questions that come out of theirobservation.
And I thought, wow, like thelevel of just curiosity, as well
as just the way that they takethis assignment so seriously,
right?
And sometimes it's the attitudethat really matters.
Although right pro the productand the outcome is important as
well,'cause you grade them.
But you can also, when you readsomething, you can see that this
(16:59):
student is very enthusiasticabout learning and getting
something out of your classroom,and I think that really matters
to me.
And so then you wanna make surethat you support that growth
because you know that you cansee it, right?
You can see that happening inthe classroom.
Rachel (17:15):
Yeah.
These are such great points.
I appreciate your sharing theseexperiences.
You know, sometimes people talkabout education with so many
comparisons, like, you know,filling a cup, lighting a fire,
but when we see our students sayadding wood to that fire, it
makes us even more enthusiastic.
'Cause teaching can be verychallenging if we think everyone
feels indifferent and trying toinspire indifferent people is
(17:37):
challenging.
But when we see that in return,that engagement, I think that's
such a great experience foreveryone in this space as well.
So any other insights that youwish to share or that you'd like
to talk about in this context orjust about teaching, things that
you think are cool?
John David (17:54):
I'll go first and Deborah, feel free to correct or
condemn anything that I say.
I'll talk, I'll talk a littlebit about, again, the rich
Korean culture.
I think this is a great partabout being here at Mason Korea.
Many Koreans really appreciateit if you take an interest in
the language and culture and youmake an effort.
Even my Korean language skillsare very, very base level, but
(18:16):
even just trying to learn aphrase or two and trying to use
that, a lot of gratitude isexpressed towards me for doing
that.
And then taking an interest inthe culture is always been
really appreciated, I think.
In general with my experiencewith particularly the Korean
students, they're trying to makeconnections.
They ask about your Myers-Briggspersonality, M BTI type.
(18:39):
They ask about your blood typeand other things as well, but
they're trying to makeconnections with us and, for us
being willing to be open tothose connections so that we can
help them better I think isreally useful.
So that, those are some of thethings that I've appreciated
being here at Mason Korea.
Deborah (18:57):
Yeah.
Adding to that, I completelyagree.
I think, and this kind of goesback to the connection right,
that we have with our students,I think the connection that I
have with my students is reallyimportant in order to have a
productive classroom and alsodiscussion.
I think one way that I connectwith my students, especially
(19:17):
with the bilingual students ismentioning that I'm also
bilingual and I also haveexperienced those same
challenges.
And sometimes they don't believeme.
But I tell them some specificstories about, you know,
embarrassing stories and thingsthat I thought once it was
shameful, but when I open up,they open up as well.
If I don't open up, they won'topen up.
(19:39):
Right?
And so, I always think aboutthis as an interaction.
It's always mutual.
I think being vulnerable isreally important.
And then of course, I try to be,create the safe space where
we're open to each other and ifthey need support, then they are
also able to come to me easilyor more easily or faster
throughout the semester.
(19:59):
And so, I think that's reallyimportant for all teachers to
take into consideration thecontext of the students.
But also you should be openenough to talk about your own
context.
The other thing that I wanted tosay was, I think it's too bad
that we don't get that thisopportunity as much, but I think
it's important to observe otherpeople's classrooms.
And I've had the privilege ofdoing that occasionally at Mason
(20:22):
Korea.
And when we do, even if theteaching style is very different
from mine, you know, the personthat you're observing their
classroom is very different frommine.
I do learn so much from that,right?
And so, I learn about what to doand maybe what not to do as
well, right?
Like, I learn about, you know,ways in which people have really
(20:43):
been thoughtful in trying toengage students in a different
way.
Like I've, you know, usedvarious activities and
assignments in my classroom overand over again, but then I
become more creative about itbecause, oh, like this person
did it this way.
So I think, you know, doesn'tmatter if it's a different
discipline department program, Ithink it's really useful to just
(21:05):
go into a different person'sclassroom, a faculty's classroom
and observe them and kind ofhelp your own teaching and
inspire your own classroom aswell.
Rachel (21:18):
Absolutely.
That's such a great point.
You know, we spend so much timein our own areas, our own, our
own heads, really, with ouractivities and our assignments,
and we don't always have to, asthe saying goes, if you will,
reinvent the wheel, we can, wecan borrow and adapt and all of
that.
That's such a great point.
So as we wrap up for today, Ithink this really brings us to
(21:39):
our keystone concept ofengagement.
But I think it's a little bitdifferent than maybe we've
talked about like studentengagement before because here
we're really talking about thatspark.
You know, whether it's somethingcreative, something interesting
that we're doing, or how we feedoff our students' energy and our
students feed off our energies,whether that's about openness or
(22:00):
vulnerability like Deborah wastalking about, or the
engagement, like both Deborahand John, you were talking about
with your students, reallyfeeding off that energy and that
investment, you know, from bothsides, from our students and
from us as well.
I think that's really adifferent type of engagement
than we've talked about before.
And I really appreciate yoursharing.
(22:20):
But with that, I reallyappreciate your time as well as
your insights.
I am obviously delighted, tohave guests from Mason Korea
talking about teaching at MasonKorea.
It's so important with thisexperience, having this campus
for George Mason University aswell.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your insights, and I
look forward to connecting withyou in other spaces as well.
(22:42):
So please join us with ourepisodes every two weeks during
the academic semesters, and wewill catch you in other spaces
as well.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Deborah (22:53):
Thank you.
John David (22:55):
Thanks, Rachel.
Hello and welcome to Keystone Concepts in Teaching.
I'm your host, Rachel Yoho.
And this is a podcast from theStearns Center for Teaching and
Learning at George MasonUniversity, where we share
impactful and evidence-basedteaching practices to support
all students and faculty.
I'm very excited to be joined bythis episode's guests who are
(00:29):
both from Mason Korea.
We are joined by Professor JohnDavid McGrew, and we are joined
by Dr.
Deborah Kwak.
So thank you so much to both ofyou for joining us.
I'm very excited to chat withyou today.
Deborah (00:45):
Good to be here.
John David (00:46):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having us.
Rachel (00:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what we wanted to talk aboutin this episode is really what
teaching at Mason Korea, at thistype of international campus of
a US based university, not onlyis like, but also what we can
share with perhaps people whomight be interested in teaching
at Mason Korea or what thatreally teaches us about teaching
(01:10):
in general, so that broadaudience for both Mason Korea
faculty and US based or otherareas based faculty.
Can one of you start us off withtelling us a little bit about
your teaching experience atMason Korea?
Deborah (01:27):
Yeah, so, I'm entering my fifth year at Mason Korea,
and I usually teach my area ormy discipline is sociology, and
then peace and conflict.
So usually I teach sociologycourses, also criminal justice
courses.
And then in my first two yearsI've been teaching peace and
conflict courses as well.
(01:48):
And then the number of studentsper course, you know, 25 to 30
is very typical for me.
And then smaller classessometimes range from 10 to 15
students.
And most of the time this ishigher level, you know, 300
level courses, sociologycourses.
John David (02:04):
I have taught in the Computer Game Design program
here at Mason Korea for aboutfour years.
My specialty is in 3D modeling,animation, and digital art.
So all the courses I teach aremajor courses.
Typically I have around 10 to 25students per class.
Rachel (02:21):
Thank you both so much.
So we're interested in talkingwith our audience about teaching
at Mason Korea, right?
So whether they're already partof the community there, or
simply other Mason faculty, orperhaps other faculty at other
institutions who may havecampuses and other parts of the
world as well.
So what can you tell us fromyour perspective, from your
(02:42):
substantial years of experience,you know, what do you think are
some of the most importantconsiderations or perhaps maybe
some recommendations aboutteaching in that particular
community with Mason Korea?
Deborah (02:56):
So I've taught in another institution before and I
was thinking about what arekinda the unique strengths of
Mason Korea, and in talking toan audience who might be
interested in Mason Korea, Ithink there are several factors.
So first of all, I think, MasonKorea's faculty, many if not all
(03:17):
of them, are very enthusiasticabout teaching and making sure
that our students are learningand that they're engaged in the
classroom.
And so I think the level ofenthusiasm is very high within
the Mason Korea community.
The other thing that I wanted tosay is I think our Mason Korea
community of students, most ofthem are very academically high
(03:41):
achieving students.
And so the majority of them areKorean students, although we do
have a small number ofinternational students.
But, you know, these arestudents who have been told all
their life that, you know,learning and education is really
important and that it willdetermine their opportunities in
their life and in their future.
(04:02):
And so very much concerned aboutgrades, very invested in the
classroom.
So I think that's one important,unique factor that Mason Korea
has.
And then I wanted to say that,and this is connected to the
first point that I talked about,which is that, you know, faculty
are very enthusiastic aboutteaching, is collegiality.
And so collegiality aroundteaching.
(04:24):
And so we have kind of allaround our community, small
groups of faculty who supporteach other in teaching.
We also sometimes observe eachother's classrooms.
And it doesn't have to be thesame discipline.
For example in my program, whichis the non-major courses in the
CHSS program.
So we do monthly kinda smallteaching or sharing of small
(04:48):
teaching practices.
And so we talk about ourteaching all of the time.
We talk about our classroom andstudents all of the time and how
we can be better teachersbasically.
Right?
And so, collegiality.
And then I think the last thingI wanted to mention was because
we're so much into teaching,even our research agendas are
related to teaching, right?
So many of us were engaged inmentoring undergraduates in
(05:12):
scholarship and doing researchthemselves.
And then for our own research,we do engage in teaching and
learning scholarships.
So if you are interested injoining Mason Korea, I think
that's an area where they cankind of pursue in their
research.
Rachel (05:28):
Yeah, that's great.
I mean, we definitely have a lotof engagement also between the
Fairfax campus and Mason Korea.
I personally enjoy working withthe Mason Korea instructor
community a great deal as well.
And I've definitely noticed aswell with some of our different
areas, you know, like youmentioned, CHSS, like the
College of Humanities and SocialSciences or certain other areas,
(05:49):
really tend to have very closeinstructor and instructional
interest communities.
That's great.
I appreciate your mentioningthat, but yeah, John, do you
wanna tell us a little bit moreabout some of your experiences
as well, or your thoughts here?
John David (06:03):
Yeah, I might echo some of what Deborah just said,
but even though a large portionof our student body is our
domestic students from Korea,many of them have an
international experience.
So there's a really rich, notonly a rich Korean culture here,
but there's a rich internationalculture.
Some of these students havestudied overseas, or they've
lived overseas, all around theworld.
(06:24):
And so there's a lot to draw onthere, I think.
Korea of itself has a reallybeautiful culture, but just
bringing in all those differentexperiences makes this a very
nice experience.
That being said, because weteach an environment where we
have a majority of students thatare speaking English as a second
language, we have to think aboutjust the general accommodation
(06:44):
that we need to have in theclassroom.
How do we pace our lessons?
How do we make things moreconcise and clear?
How do we create opportunitiesfor students that may be
struggling to follow class thatthey have a secondary option of
keeping up with the course andthe course content?
So those are some of thechallenges that I didn't see,
(07:06):
didn't quite understand maybecoming in that I've come to
understand better as I'veinteracted with students and
tried to connect with them andhelp them grow and become more
versed in my content area.
Rachel (07:21):
I appreciate your sharing there.
We had another episode in ourprevious season talking about
multilingualism and how thatimpacts education.
But I think that's such a greatpoint that people might not be
thinking about as they'relistening about the Mason Korea
campus and thinking veryspecifically about our
multilingual students.
So that's such a great point.
And I think this also kind ofleads me into our next question.
(07:45):
Can you maybe expand on this alittle bit or perhaps compare
and contrast the Korean contextfor teaching maybe broadly or
perhaps the US universityinternational campus type of
context.
Because both of you, you know,have teaching experience in
other parts of the world aswell.
Deborah (08:06):
I think this is an interesting question.
I mean definitely because myprevious institution was in the
US in Canton, Ohio, and I thinkthere is many similarities in
terms of, in Korea having thisAmerican education, higher
education system in Korea, Imean, that's definitely what you
would see at Mason Korea.
(08:26):
Having said that, I thinkbecause we are located in Korea,
there are many creative waysthat we could take the same
content materials and maybeprovide kind of other
opportunities for students inthe classroom.
So for example, in myintroduction to criminal justice
classroom, we talk aboutcorrections and the interesting
(08:48):
thing is this is a completelyAmerican context classroom,
right?
American context, criminaljustice.
And so it's the same material.
I use the same textbook.
A lot of the times it's the sameonline resources.
Having said that, for example,when I talk about juveniles,
because the topic of juvenilejustice is very controversial
and pretty big in Korea rightnow.
(09:08):
A lot of the public perception,for example, is that, you know,
we are being very lenienttowards the juveniles in the
justice system.
So I know this context, I alsowanna bring that debate into the
classroom and I encourage mystudents to share their own
perspectives and opinions.
But then also I wanna kind ofbring more evidence, for
(09:29):
example, about brain researchand ask them to be critical of
their own perspectives.
Right?
The other thing that I try to dois kind of make it career
specific.
So like when we talk aboutcorrections, I want them to
visit, and I do, this is aself-guided field trip where
they go to a Korean correctionsfacility.
It's a historical facility, sonow it's changed into a museum.
(09:50):
And so they have to all go andthink about the concept of
social construction, right?
So it's the same concept, but ina way I provide an experiential
learning opportunity that isvery career specific and that
you can't get anywhere else.
John David (10:05):
Just maybe expanding a bit on what was said before.
I try to provide students withopportunity to make mistakes in
the classroom.
Most of the things that we doare not one and done, either
through providing them withopportunities to turn in drafts
beforehand, or milestones oreven resubmit work to correct
some of the issues that werefound in the original
(10:25):
submission.
Also, I found that students heretend to be a little bit in
general, tend to be a little bitmore reserved in opening up and
engaging in class.
And so I also try to providestudents with an opportunity to
have time to take things in anddigest them and prepare how
they're going to speak.
(10:46):
So if I plan a discussion, atleast the class before or even a
week before, I give themdiscussion questions to look
over, so that they are preparedduring class to be able to say
those things.
Because many people, even intheir native language, they find
it hard to respond to aquestion, particularly in an
academic setting, just off thecuff.
(11:09):
And having said that, idiom,that's something else that maybe
I, I need to work on is tryingto restrain myself from using
colloquialisms and idioms in theclassroom without at least
explaining what's going on.
So I have to rewrite all myjokes as well.
Um, or otherwise, it's acomplete silence anytime they're
(11:30):
delivered.
Rachel (11:31):
Complete silence.
A lot of explaining.
Yeah.
No, makes sense.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Deborah (11:36):
I wanted to add to John's point because it's really
good.
And I think this is kind ofgoing back to his point about,
you know, teaching bilingualstudents and then trying to come
up with these creativeaccommodations that work for our
majority student population.
I think it's important to,perhaps, mention that a lot of
these students who have gone toKorean public schools have had
(11:59):
this education style or learningstyle in the classroom where
their perspectives were notreally considered as important.
It's not really important totalk about what you think, but
it's more important to listen toyour teacher and just kind of
digest that and then performthrough tests.
Right?
And so we have many of thesestudents in our classroom.
(12:20):
And in a way they're challengingthemselves because they put
themselves, and their parentsalso investing in, you know,
putting themselves in thatsituation where they have to do
something completely differentfrom what they're very much used
to all their lives.
Right.
So I think I really appreciateJohn's perspective where, you
know, as a teacher, as aprofessor, you have to always
(12:41):
remind yourself that that's thecontext where in which they come
from.
And then of course, over time,you do see them grow into really
considering their ownperspectives.
Like my opinions, what I think,even if it's half-baked
thoughts, like it's important.
And then, and then now I'minterested in what my peers
think.
Right?
And so, really kind of thinkingabout ways in which to do that.
(13:03):
I was also gonna add and saythat, in my SOCI 101, I do
structure discussion.
And structure discussion isreally important for my students
because they can prepare inadvance.
Right?
And so when they come into theclassroom and do small group
discussion, I don't give themlike open-ended questions, like
right then and there, butthey've already prepared, and I
(13:23):
tell them, you shouldn't beafraid to share because you've
written it and you should justshare what you have in front of
you.
So I think that does help inreducing student anxiety,
somewhat.
Rachel (13:36):
That's such a compelling point when we're thinking about
the move from that type ofeducational system into a little
bit more active or a little bitmore engaged style.
And also even then, when we'rethinking about bringing in those
elements of reflection or thestudent's positionality, or the
students even just a perspectiveon a particular topic and the
(13:57):
challenges there.
I really like how you'redescribing like that sort of
stepwise process and helping notonly with some of the
multilingual or the bilingualaspects, but also the
preparation, the interest insharing.
That's really important.
So I guess as we continue on,I'd be really interested in your
thoughts, maybe somethingrecently or perhaps mildly
(14:19):
recently that has inspired youin your teaching that you'd be
interested in sharing.
John David (14:26):
I recently taught a course where the students were
very excited to learn.
This isn't necessarilycompletely unique, but, uh, the
level of excitement
Rachel (14:37):
Hopefully not.
John David (14:40):
the level of excitement I think was unique
and the student's desire toreally expand on what was being
taught outside of class.
Asking for resources and ways inwhich they could take what they
learned in class and then buildupon that just in their own
individual projects, I think wasreally inspiring and just
reminded me, yeah, I really doneed to spend more time really
(15:01):
sparking that excitement andstudents.
I teach in a, an exciting area,computer game design, and I,
games are supposed to
Rachel (15:09):
A very cool area.
John David (15:12):
Yeah, games are supposed to be fun.
So I bring some of that fun intoteaching how to build those
games.
I think was another just a goodreminder to me and a good
inspiration to move forward andcarry that excitement with me
and help the students hopefullyalso catch hold of that.
Deborah (15:32):
Yeah, I think my mine is also pretty similar to
John's.
This is my fifth year ofteaching at Mason Korea and, you
know, usually, although I makesome adjustments depending on
the student group that I havethat semester, a lot of the
times, you know, many thingsthat we say and do and the
activities and assignments arevery similar or same.
But having said that, I think itreally matters and I really
(15:53):
believe in student professorinteractions because if you see
that students are engaged inyour classroom and with the
activities that you give them,then you as a professor, of
course, will become enthusiasticand more enthusiastic about
supporting those students.
And so, recently a couple ofthem, my SOCI 101, they went out
and they conducted anobservation.
And so they're supposed to writeethnographic field notes after
(16:16):
the 40 minute silent observationthat they're supposed to do.
And it's a 10 point assignment.
And when students submittedthem, out of the, you know, 35
students, like I think around,seven or so, wrote some really
excellent detailed field notes.
Including their reflections andthen possibly merging research
(16:36):
questions that come out of theirobservation.
And I thought, wow, like thelevel of just curiosity, as well
as just the way that they takethis assignment so seriously,
right?
And sometimes it's the attitudethat really matters.
Although right pro the productand the outcome is important as
well,'cause you grade them.
But you can also, when you readsomething, you can see that this
(16:59):
student is very enthusiasticabout learning and getting
something out of your classroom,and I think that really matters
to me.
And so then you wanna make surethat you support that growth
because you know that you cansee it, right?
You can see that happening inthe classroom.
Rachel (17:15):
Yeah.
These are such great points.
I appreciate your sharing theseexperiences.
You know, sometimes people talkabout education with so many
comparisons, like, you know,filling a cup, lighting a fire,
but when we see our students sayadding wood to that fire, it
makes us even more enthusiastic.
'Cause teaching can be verychallenging if we think everyone
feels indifferent and trying toinspire indifferent people is
(17:37):
challenging.
But when we see that in return,that engagement, I think that's
such a great experience foreveryone in this space as well.
So any other insights that youwish to share or that you'd like
to talk about in this context orjust about teaching, things that
you think are cool?
John David (17:54):
I'll go first and Deborah, feel free to correct or
condemn anything that I say.
I'll talk, I'll talk a littlebit about, again, the rich
Korean culture.
I think this is a great partabout being here at Mason Korea.
Many Koreans really appreciateit if you take an interest in
the language and culture and youmake an effort.
Even my Korean language skillsare very, very base level, but
(18:16):
even just trying to learn aphrase or two and trying to use
that, a lot of gratitude isexpressed towards me for doing
that.
And then taking an interest inthe culture is always been
really appreciated, I think.
In general with my experiencewith particularly the Korean
students, they're trying to makeconnections.
They ask about your Myers-Briggspersonality, M BTI type.
(18:39):
They ask about your blood typeand other things as well, but
they're trying to makeconnections with us and, for us
being willing to be open tothose connections so that we can
help them better I think isreally useful.
So that, those are some of thethings that I've appreciated
being here at Mason Korea.
Deborah (18:57):
Yeah.
Adding to that, I completelyagree.
I think, and this kind of goesback to the connection right,
that we have with our students,I think the connection that I
have with my students is reallyimportant in order to have a
productive classroom and alsodiscussion.
I think one way that I connectwith my students, especially
(19:17):
with the bilingual students ismentioning that I'm also
bilingual and I also haveexperienced those same
challenges.
And sometimes they don't believeme.
But I tell them some specificstories about, you know,
embarrassing stories and thingsthat I thought once it was
shameful, but when I open up,they open up as well.
If I don't open up, they won'topen up.
(19:39):
Right?
And so, I always think aboutthis as an interaction.
It's always mutual.
I think being vulnerable isreally important.
And then of course, I try to be,create the safe space where
we're open to each other and ifthey need support, then they are
also able to come to me easilyor more easily or faster
throughout the semester.
(19:59):
And so, I think that's reallyimportant for all teachers to
take into consideration thecontext of the students.
But also you should be openenough to talk about your own
context.
The other thing that I wanted tosay was, I think it's too bad
that we don't get that thisopportunity as much, but I think
it's important to observe otherpeople's classrooms.
And I've had the privilege ofdoing that occasionally at Mason
(20:22):
Korea.
And when we do, even if theteaching style is very different
from mine, you know, the personthat you're observing their
classroom is very different frommine.
I do learn so much from that,right?
And so, I learn about what to doand maybe what not to do as
well, right?
Like, I learn about, you know,ways in which people have really
(20:43):
been thoughtful in trying toengage students in a different
way.
Like I've, you know, usedvarious activities and
assignments in my classroom overand over again, but then I
become more creative about itbecause, oh, like this person
did it this way.
So I think, you know, doesn'tmatter if it's a different
discipline department program, Ithink it's really useful to just
(21:05):
go into a different person'sclassroom, a faculty's classroom
and observe them and kind ofhelp your own teaching and
inspire your own classroom aswell.
Rachel (21:18):
Absolutely.
That's such a great point.
You know, we spend so much timein our own areas, our own, our
own heads, really, with ouractivities and our assignments,
and we don't always have to, asthe saying goes, if you will,
reinvent the wheel, we can, wecan borrow and adapt and all of
that.
That's such a great point.
So as we wrap up for today, Ithink this really brings us to
(21:39):
our keystone concept ofengagement.
But I think it's a little bitdifferent than maybe we've
talked about like studentengagement before because here
we're really talking about thatspark.
You know, whether it's somethingcreative, something interesting
that we're doing, or how we feedoff our students' energy and our
students feed off our energies,whether that's about openness or
(22:00):
vulnerability like Deborah wastalking about, or the
engagement, like both Deborahand John, you were talking about
with your students, reallyfeeding off that energy and that
investment, you know, from bothsides, from our students and
from us as well.
I think that's really adifferent type of engagement
than we've talked about before.
And I really appreciate yoursharing.
(22:20):
But with that, I reallyappreciate your time as well as
your insights.
I am obviously delighted, tohave guests from Mason Korea
talking about teaching at MasonKorea.
It's so important with thisexperience, having this campus
for George Mason University aswell.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your insights, and I
look forward to connecting withyou in other spaces as well.
(22:42):
So please join us with ourepisodes every two weeks during
the academic semesters, and wewill catch you in other spaces
as well.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Deborah (22:53):
Thank you.
John David (22:55):
Thanks, Rachel.
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