August 28, 2024 • 26 mins
In this episode of the Kinder Mind Podcast, we delve into the complex emotions and psychological challenges surrounding the transition when children leave home, a significant life event that impacts both parents and young adults. Our guest, Ericka Connor, LMSW, joins us to explore the intricacies of "empty nest syndrome" and the hurdles young adults face when stepping out into the world.
As parents, the shift from a full house to an empty one can bring overwhelming feelings of loss, anxiety, and uncertainty about the future. How can parents rediscover a sense of purpose and identity after their children move out? Meanwhile, young adults often grapple with their own fears and anxieties about independence. What factors contribute to their reluctance to leave home, and how can they overcome these challenges?
We discuss practical strategies for both parents and young adults to navigate this transitional period. From setting healthy boundaries and fostering independence to understanding the importance of communication, this episode offers valuable insights into easing the emotional strain on both sides.
Whether you're a parent preparing for your child's departure or a young adult about to embark on a new chapter, this episode provides guidance and support to make this life-changing transition smoother and more fulfilling. Tune in to learn more about embracing this new phase with confidence and understanding.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (00:00):
Thanks so much for joining us for another
episode of the kinder mindpodcast.
Today.
We are understandingtransitioning empty nesters and
young adults who have difficultyleaving the nest.
I'm joined with our guestspeaker today, erica Connor,
lmsw, who's going to talk to usabout this very interesting
topic.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, erica.
(00:20):
Oh well, thank you so much forhaving me.
As soon as we were talkingabout like you know, what you
were going to talk about todayand you um kind of picking a
topic and you mentioned umfailure to launch and leaving
the nest, I have to share like.
The first thing that came to mymind was that Matthew
McConaughey movie with SarahJessica.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (00:41):
Listen, that's not too far off from like
the phenomenon that we'reexperiencing with young people.
So I totally hear you.
I think about that too, butit's.
It's awesome Cause that moviekind of brought you know the
attention to that phrase andseriously, what's going on with
young people today, who knows?
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (01:01):
Right, yes , so I.
I love that I had a frame ofreference, because when that
movie came out it was definitelybefore I was going to be
leaving home.
So I never really thought aboutit from a lens of like what if
that were me?
Or like what if that were afriend of mine?
Or how are those parentsfeeling.
So I love that we're talkingabout this today.
So just kind of to jump in withthe questions I have for you,
(01:26):
thinking about it from a generalunderstanding perspective of
what the different folks in thismultifaceted problem or
situation are dealing with,let's start with the parents.
So what are some of the commonpsychological challenges you
would say are faced by emptynesters when their children
(01:47):
leave home?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (01:48):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
I would honestly say, justbeing an empty nester myself and
just kind of witnessing whatthe people around me and other
parents are experiencing, Ithink I mean the primary thing I
think that parents areexperiencing is like a loss of
identity.
I mean, I think I mean theprimary thing I think that
parents are experiencing is likea loss of identity.
I mean I think mothers inparticular have this.
(02:11):
You know, their role is to be amother and I think that's
difficult to let go and theydon't really view it as a
transition.
They see it more as like agrieving process.
I think people have like a lackof purpose and they experience
like a general grief, that kindof mimics the loss of somebody.
(02:31):
You know, this can go on forweeks to months.
I mean that would kind of be, Iguess, a normal time frame.
But we're talking more aboutthe folks that are having like
long term issues where theyreally have difficulty and
experience a lot of loss.
There we have parents that arefaced with like confronting the
(02:52):
state of their relationship ortheir marriage with their, you
know, their relationship with apartner, Kind of the reality
that they have to discover andcreate activities that keep them
busy, maybe, or finding alifestyle that has purpose.
So I think there's a lot ofdifferent components to it for
parents and caregivers, but Ithink the primary focus is that
(03:14):
they really have to understandthat the relationship is going
to change with their child, andI think a lot of people really
don't feel comfortable, beinguncomfortable with that or they
don't really know what thatlooks like.
So there's a lot of fear, youknow, involved in that process.
So that's, I would say, theprimary focuses for, you know,
adults and caregivers that arehaving children move out of the
home and moving on.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (03:36):
No, that makes a lot of sense and, as we
know, from that feeling of lossand fear and sadness, that can
create a lot of, you know,anxiety and depression.
So, with that in mind, um,could this trigger any type of
like medical or psychologicalconditions that those parents
(03:56):
now are facing because of thisbig life change?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (03:59):
You know, I think this having children and
raising kids I think well, firstlet's look at it in two parts.
Well, I would say like there canbe like unhealthy enmeshment
with our children where we maybelatch on to raising our kids or
kind of creating an identityaround our kids because we're
trying to avoid um dealing withmaybe an underlying issue.
(04:22):
So not having a distraction athome or, you know, kind of the
busyness that comes with havingkids can trigger um possibly
confronting issues that you'vebeen putting away for some time,
like maybe relationshipdifficulties, maybe depression,
anxiety.
You know we're pretty good atbusying ourselves up and not
(04:46):
really dealing with those things, but you know, being an empty
nester is a great time to maybeunpack some of the difficulties
or some of the traumaticexperiences in your past or
maybe some mental health issuesthat you've been kind of
sweeping under the rug.
So there is good to being anempty nester when it comes to
like time for yourself and timeto maybe explore some of the
(05:10):
things you've been strugglingwith but you really just didn't
want to confront.
So that is where maybe I wouldsay but the other part would be
yes, you know what that kind ofloss can also trigger an
individual to experience like agreat deal of anxiety or
depression or you know othermental health challenges.
(05:30):
So I mean it could be.
You know, either of the two.
We wouldn't rule out.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (05:35):
Absolutely no.
That makes a lot of sense.
So, thinking about that nextstep, that transition in life
now that their child's out ofthe house, how can empty nesters
find a new sense of purpose oridentity after their children
move out?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (05:48):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Well, listen, I think it'sreally important to start this
process before your child leavesthe nest.
I mean, you really need to kindof communicate your anxieties
and your fears with you knowothers.
I would say please don't giveinto the desire to talk about
that with your kid, because youreally want them to experience
(06:12):
that journey to the fullest.
So you really don't want tocontinue an enmeshment with your
child.
So I think it's natural to saythings like you know I'm, you
know I'm excited for you to moveon, but you know I do feel sad
because I've really loved youknow I'm I'm excited for you to
move on, but you know I do feelsad because I've really loved
you know you being at home andI've enjoyed this relationship.
So, yes, you need to expressthose feelings and maybe some
anxieties.
(06:33):
I would try to find um peers,you know, like other parents
who've experienced this before.
Or if you don't know anyone, Ithink it's important to reach
out.
You know, obviously talkingwith a therapist is a great
outlet and you know we arealways here to listen.
And you know, walk that journeywith you.
I think it's important to havediscussions with your kids about
(06:54):
anything you're anxious about,in particular because I know
there's a lot of.
You know there's a lot outthere about, like, kids being
safe and all these terriblethings that happen to kids when
they go to college.
But you have to kind ofremember that those are very
isolated event events andinstances.
So if it makes you feel better,listen, talk about you know
what the expectation is for yourkids if they encounter a
(07:16):
medical emergency.
Or let's talk about campussafety.
Or let's talk about, you know,drinking and you know six, you
know getting rides home andbeing safe, like I think if
you've covered those topics withyour kid, it will certainly
lessen the anxiety because youfeel like your children are
prepared.
(07:37):
I'd also, you know, trysomething new, like try to
incorporate something new intoyour lifestyle.
Try something new like try toincorporate something new into
your lifestyle, be social, youknow, explore some hobbies,
maybe go back to work if that'ssomething you desire.
But I think starting early cankind of help ease that
transition for you and for yourchild.
But again, if you're having,you know, difficulty coping with
(08:01):
this or you don't have someoneto speak to that you feel
comfortable with, you shouldalways reach out to a
professional therapist and justlet them walk that journey with
you so that you have someone totalk to about it.
Because I think the sooner youget kind of on top of those
emotions, the easier it is towork through them and process
them when the actual day comes.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (08:24):
I love that you think about, like you
know, starting that early sothat when it happens you know
you're ready for that.
And I mean I'm still a littleearly out.
I've got a 10 year old and a 12year old, but kind of putting
myself in the mindset of one daythat will come.
I think one of my burningquestions which you know is
probably like subjective andit's based on individual
(08:45):
relationships that parents havewith their kiddos, cause not
every parent's the same, notevery kiddo is the same.
What, in your opinion, is agood, healthy communication
frequency for parents tocommunicate with their children
once they leave the nest?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (09:01):
You know, I love that you asked that
question because I had thisconversation with some of my um.
I have some young people incollege right now.
Um one's in graduate school, soI feel like that doesn't really
count as much.
But I have one that's goinginto her junior year of college
and we talked about this and Ifeel like, um, you know, in the
beginning I think there's norules, right, you're doing
(09:24):
what's comfortable for you andyour student.
I'd say student because I don'twant to say child, because once
they go to college they're anadult.
But I think that's really whatmakes them feel comfortable in
the beginning.
But I would say a healthycommunication with you and your
young person would probably bemaybe one phone call a week.
(09:45):
You know, I know it's adifferent time than it was, you
know, 20 years ago or 25 yearsago, when we had text messaging
and whatnot.
And I do think you know, Iunderstand that we have a
texting relationship with ourkids and I know that.
You know I have that with mykids too, like, you know, if I'm
out and I see something and I'mlike, oh, what do you think
about this?
But I would really try toresist the desire to constantly
(10:10):
be in contact with your youngperson.
In my opinion I don't know thatthat's entirely necessary, but
you know, just touching baseperiodically through the week, I
think the bigger concern wouldbe you know, how often is your
young person requesting to comehome?
(10:32):
You know, I think maybe twicein the semester, outside of
holidays, is probably normal.
But I think what, as atherapist, would concern me is
if your young person isrequesting to come home a lot,
like every other weekend orevery weekend, I think that's
something that would concern me.
Um, just because I think thereality is, when you go away to
(10:53):
college, when you leave the nest, you are going to explore your
independence and your autonomyoutside of your family unit, and
if your young person is notdoing that effectively, if
they're not staying orexperiencing those things, then
I think you have to start to askquestions.
You have to wonder.
You know what's going on.
Is it?
You know?
(11:14):
Could it be depression, couldit be anxiety?
Because I know a lot of peopleexperience those things you know
, around the age of you know, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,.
You know, we really see a lotof that come to the surface in
that age group.
So I think it's definitelyworth exploring.
But to answer your question, Iwould say a phone call or Zoom
(11:35):
once a week is really what youwant to kind of aim to get to.
And I don't think there's aproblem with texting your you
know your young personperiodically.
But I think when it gets to thepoint where you're constantly
in communication with that youngperson, you're not allowing
them the autonomy that theydeserve to grow and find their
own independence and assertthemselves be for you would be
(12:00):
like if they were coming homefrequently.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (12:02):
And I'm a huge fan of like self disclosure
on the podcast, because Ialways think about these things
that like in my brain, like Icould connect what you're saying
to like personal experience.
So not a super long story, butwhat came to mind when you said
that was I remembered when Iwent off to college for the
first time.
It was a nightmare.
(12:23):
And the place, the school thatI went it was a small school up
in North Georgia and I was therefor, I think, maybe like a
month or two, and I was cominghome every single weekend.
I did not want to be there.
Incredibly toxic, cattyenvironment.
Like they pushed like veryspecific beliefs down
(12:45):
everybody's throat.
You could not be an individual.
It felt like I left my smallGeorgia town of home and moved
to an even smaller town whereeverybody was like very judgy
and it was just awful.
So I and I wanted nothing to dowith it.
And to the point to where, likeI would go to the grocery store
and buy food to keep in my dormroom, just so I wouldn't have
to like go eat in the cafeteriawith the people.
(13:07):
So, needless to say, like Ipacked everything I owned and
just like put it in my car andeventually went home.
But yeah, no, like that'sdefinitely something you want to
be on the lookout for if you'rea parent and you're, you know,
young adult leaves home and thenyou're seeing them for dinner
every day, like something's notgoing right either.
(13:29):
Like you know, like you said,they're not really pushing
themselves to get out therebecause you know it's scary and
it's new, or like how's thisenvironment where they currently
are, like why are they notenjoying being there, where they
would rather be home, whereit's comfortable and safe?
Like, is that a them thing thatwe need to address and work
through, or is that anenvironmental thing that we need
to address and work through?
(13:50):
So that's a really, reallygreat point.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (13:52):
And I think , like the coping mechanisms
really have to be there foryoung people to be successful
when they leave the nest right,Because everybody has a bad
first roommate.
I mean, this is generalizing,but you hear the common problems
with college kids, and the kidsthat have really healthy coping
mechanisms are the ones thatusually find the most success.
(14:13):
Now, I mean, listen, there arealways exceptions to that rule.
Maybe you chose a universityyou spoke about and you weren't
really clear on what thatenvironment looked like, and
after one semester you were, youknow, done with that that
university and it was time tomove on, which is totally
healthy too.
But I think for the averageyoung person, if you have the
(14:35):
right coping mechanisms in place, they will be successful.
They do not need to come homeevery weekend to escape, you
know, the uncomfortableness ofbeing new or not having
friendships or sitting alone,Cause I think these are all
skills that we learn as youngpeople, whether we're in school
or not.
Right, Like you have to, yougot to learn how to eat lunch on
(14:55):
your own, because one dayyou're going to have a job or
you're going to be in a placewhere you have to do something
that feels uncomfortable.
So what's great about therapyis that we teach people how to
be comfortable with beinguncomfortable.
You know, if that's notsomething that you've gotten
from your caretakers or yourparents, then this is a great
spot for it.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (15:15):
So you know my opinion, no, and I love
that opinion and Iwholeheartedly agree.
Like I definitely say, like ittook me longer than a lot of
people, because I grew up anonly child, to develop that
being okay with like feelinguncomfortable resilience that
(15:35):
you need to be a successfuladult and thrive out there.
So you know, much younger itwould have terrified me to go to
a movie by myself and sit aloneand have a meal.
And now I'm like working withclients on like you don't
understand it's so great outhere Once you can just get
comfortable in your own skin andfind that purpose and like
happiness within you, like itdoesn't have to always be
(15:58):
attached to another person andunfortunately, like you know
folks that don't overcome thaton their own and you know,
constantly look in to otherpeople to find that you know
value or those affirmations orreally that purpose.
That's where we sometimes see,you know, really unhealthy
(16:19):
attachments and relationshipsdevelop.
So, absolutely Therapist totherapist, I think our common
theme we're sharing right now is, the sooner you can get okay
with being you and being you outand about and you doing the
things that you enjoy, you'llfeel very confident and
comfortable and be verywell-rounded into going out
there and you know, being a partof a relationship or being a
(16:42):
better friend.
So definitely something to try,either on your own or with the
support of a therapist.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (16:49):
Yeah, and also acknowledging that you know
everybody's experiencing thesame feelings, right, but we
don't know that until we sharethat with someone else.
That's an important message foryoung people is to understand
that they're just not alone inthose thoughts or those feelings
and parents too.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (17:05):
So, thinking about our young adults,
how can young adults overcomethe fear or anxiety associated
with leaving the nest?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (17:15):
So I would say, there it's preparation and
communication.
I think young people should beencouraged to voice anxieties,
concerns.
This should be an ongoingdiscussion with your young
person, because I think it isvery natural to feel both of
those things before going off tocollege.
Sometimes young people havedifficulty speaking with their
(17:39):
caregivers or their parentsabout these things.
So, you know, an objectiveparty is always great for a
young person because then theycan express those emotions
without judgment.
So if there's not someone theyfeel close to that they could
communicate with.
Again, having a therapist is agreat idea, because a great
therapist is going to validatethose feelings and encourage
(17:59):
them to kind of keep going onthat journey of independence.
And just preparing, like whatare they having anxiety about?
Where does their, you know,concern lie?
Are they nervous aboutschedules?
Are they nervous aboutfriendships?
I mean, there's just so manythings to think about.
So I think preparation andcommunication would be probably
(18:21):
the two most important things totake into consideration.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (18:25):
And I know you mentioned, you know worry
about schedules and you knowreally getting to the bottom of
like what are they worried about, is a great strategy.
So then, thinking about that,what, what psychological factors
might contribute to a youngadults, like reluctance to leave
home?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (18:44):
Well, I mean, I think the reality is, if
a young person has any type ofunderlying mental health
disorder I mean so many kidsstruggle with anxiety and
depression.
I mean we can go on and onabout the causes of those and
social media and you know allthose great things, but I
definitely think if your childhas any kind of underlying
(19:07):
mental health disorder, I thinkthey're going to be the young
person that's going to strugglea little bit more, maybe have
more concerns.
I think there's some familydynamics that can come into play
too.
I think we have talked a littlebit about enmeshment, where
maybe that young person feelstheir parents rely on them, you
know, or their parents' identityis wrapped up in their young
(19:31):
person.
So the young person reallyfeels a reluctance to leave
because they don't want todisconnect.
We have like birth order right.
Like your oldest child isprobably going to be a little
bit more nervous or concerned,because that's just who they are
and what their make is, youknow they're a little bit more
cautious.
Is there dysfunction in thefamily?
(19:53):
I mean, do are they afraid toleave?
Because if they left, maybe youknow there's alcoholism or
there's, you know, relationshipproblems with the parents and
the young person is there tokind of be a mediator.
There's just there's so manythings to take into
consideration.
I think the primary one is arethey supported in their decision
(20:14):
to leave the nest Like, do theyfeel encouragement?
Do they feel like you know theycan call home if they're
worried or they need support?
So there's a lot that goes intoit.
But I definitely think ifthere's dysfunction or mental
health concerns, it's going tobe a more difficult transition
just by nature of you know whatthey're struggling with already.
But I think that a very wellsupported, balanced individual
(20:40):
is not going to have as muchdifficulty as maybe somebody who
has some dysfunction or mentalhealth in their background.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (20:46):
That makes a lot of sense.
So, thinking about it from atherapist aspect or like a
clinical aspect, what are someeffective interventions that
you've utilized, that you've you?
Know, researched that you'veheard that you've heard of that
are really helpful for familiesthat are struggling with this
transition.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (21:05):
I mean, I really do think that goal
setting and mindfulness therapyI think both of those together
will create a recipe for success.
I think you have to understand,like, what is the goal of that
child going on or that youngperson going on to college or to
(21:27):
leave the home?
Like what's their goal?
Their goal is to be independent, healthy young people.
So you always have to reallykeep that in mind and I think we
also need to remember that thisis the ultimate reward of
parenting.
This is the goal of parentingis to raise a young person to be
healthy and happy andindependent, and we really want
that success for them.
So you have to remember that'sthe goal.
(21:51):
You also have to take care ofyourself.
I mean as a parent and a youngperson.
Be kind to yourself.
I mean you are going tostruggle.
You might feel as a youngperson, you might feel, you know
, anxious or upset, or maybeyou're doing you know you're
doing Greek life and you don'tget the house you want.
And you have to reallyunderstand that there's going to
be failures along withsuccesses when you leave, and I
(22:14):
think parents have to rememberthat too, like you're not going
to be great at everything whenyour young person leaves.
It might take you a little bitlonger to get past it and to
kind of grieve the loss of thatrelationship with your young
person as you know it.
But you really have to bemindful of where you are and
where you will be, because downthe road it'll pay off.
(22:37):
You'll have such a fulfillingrelationship with your young
person If you were there to walkthat journey with them to
independence.
And young people should alsoremember not to ask, for you
know you have to ask for help.
You have to feel like you canask for help or talk to someone
when you're really struggling,because validating those
feelings and kind of movingthrough them is what gets you to
(22:58):
the end goal.
So those are the two things Iwould recommend remembering.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (23:04):
Those are wonderful recommendations.
Thinking about, if it were youradvice and you were talking to
parents and young adults, whatwould your advice be?
To facilitate like a smoothtransition To parents.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (23:18):
Give yourself grace and understand
that everybody's journey isunique.
Some folks take a little bitlonger to adjust to this new
transition than others, soplease give yourself grace.
Parents should view this phaseof life as acknowledgement of
success, because our job asparents is to raise a child who
will eventually becomecompletely independent of us,
(23:38):
and this phase should becompared to like potty training
or attending kindergarten.
However painful, it's justanother phase in life and I
really encourage parents toembrace this phase so that your
young person respects you as aparent and hopefully wants to be
your friend with you as anadult.
And to young people I would saydo not give into isolation.
(23:58):
I would say yes to allreasonable invitations.
I mean go to dinner, go to themovies, go to football, go to
study club.
Just say yes to all reasonableinvitations, because isolation
is not a productive behavior.
It can be difficult to try newthings, but you can do it and
you need to just embrace yourindependence and just, most of
(24:21):
all, if you're having difficulty, know that you're not the first
one and talk to somebody.
Please just reach out and talkto someone if you're having
difficulty.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (24:29):
Thank you so much, erica Connor, lmsw, for
joining us today to talk aboutfailure to launch and empty
nesters.
I think it's been a reallygreat discussion and there's
been tons of really great tipsand advice.
Again, we definitely want tocenter on you don't have to go
through this alone, like find acommunity.
Talk to a professional.
(24:50):
If anyone out there iscurrently experiencing this,
either you know an empty nesteror a young adult.
Erica does have availability inher caseload to work with new
clients and help, like she said,walk this journey with you.
Erica also specializes inanxiety, behavioral issues,
coping skills and depression.
(25:11):
She works with groups aroundbody positivity, those who are
currently going through cancerand single mothers.
Her age groups that she treatsare teenagers 13 years of age
and up, as well as adults.
You can book with Erica bycalling our scheduling team at
866-846-7765 or going to herprofile at kindermindcom.
(25:37):
Thank you so much again, erica.
It was such a pleasure talkingto you.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (25:42):
Oh, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate itAbsolutely.
You take care.
Thanks so much for joining us for another
episode of the kinder mindpodcast.
Today.
We are understandingtransitioning empty nesters and
young adults who have difficultyleaving the nest.
I'm joined with our guestspeaker today, erica Connor,
lmsw, who's going to talk to usabout this very interesting
topic.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, erica.
(00:20):
Oh well, thank you so much forhaving me.
As soon as we were talkingabout like you know, what you
were going to talk about todayand you um kind of picking a
topic and you mentioned umfailure to launch and leaving
the nest, I have to share like.
The first thing that came to mymind was that Matthew
McConaughey movie with SarahJessica.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (00:41):
Listen, that's not too far off from like
the phenomenon that we'reexperiencing with young people.
So I totally hear you.
I think about that too, butit's.
It's awesome Cause that moviekind of brought you know the
attention to that phrase andseriously, what's going on with
young people today, who knows?
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (01:01):
Right, yes , so I.
I love that I had a frame ofreference, because when that
movie came out it was definitelybefore I was going to be
leaving home.
So I never really thought aboutit from a lens of like what if
that were me?
Or like what if that were afriend of mine?
Or how are those parentsfeeling.
So I love that we're talkingabout this today.
So just kind of to jump in withthe questions I have for you,
(01:26):
thinking about it from a generalunderstanding perspective of
what the different folks in thismultifaceted problem or
situation are dealing with,let's start with the parents.
So what are some of the commonpsychological challenges you
would say are faced by emptynesters when their children
(01:47):
leave home?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (01:48):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
I would honestly say, justbeing an empty nester myself and
just kind of witnessing whatthe people around me and other
parents are experiencing, Ithink I mean the primary thing I
think that parents areexperiencing is like a loss of
identity.
I mean, I think I mean theprimary thing I think that
parents are experiencing is likea loss of identity.
I mean I think mothers inparticular have this.
(02:11):
You know, their role is to be amother and I think that's
difficult to let go and theydon't really view it as a
transition.
They see it more as like agrieving process.
I think people have like a lackof purpose and they experience
like a general grief, that kindof mimics the loss of somebody.
(02:31):
You know, this can go on forweeks to months.
I mean that would kind of be, Iguess, a normal time frame.
But we're talking more aboutthe folks that are having like
long term issues where theyreally have difficulty and
experience a lot of loss.
There we have parents that arefaced with like confronting the
(02:52):
state of their relationship ortheir marriage with their, you
know, their relationship with apartner, Kind of the reality
that they have to discover andcreate activities that keep them
busy, maybe, or finding alifestyle that has purpose.
So I think there's a lot ofdifferent components to it for
parents and caregivers, but Ithink the primary focus is that
(03:14):
they really have to understandthat the relationship is going
to change with their child, andI think a lot of people really
don't feel comfortable, beinguncomfortable with that or they
don't really know what thatlooks like.
So there's a lot of fear, youknow, involved in that process.
So that's, I would say, theprimary focuses for, you know,
adults and caregivers that arehaving children move out of the
home and moving on.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (03:36):
No, that makes a lot of sense and, as we
know, from that feeling of lossand fear and sadness, that can
create a lot of, you know,anxiety and depression.
So, with that in mind, um,could this trigger any type of
like medical or psychologicalconditions that those parents
(03:56):
now are facing because of thisbig life change?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (03:59):
You know, I think this having children and
raising kids I think well, firstlet's look at it in two parts.
Well, I would say like there canbe like unhealthy enmeshment
with our children where we maybelatch on to raising our kids or
kind of creating an identityaround our kids because we're
trying to avoid um dealing withmaybe an underlying issue.
(04:22):
So not having a distraction athome or, you know, kind of the
busyness that comes with havingkids can trigger um possibly
confronting issues that you'vebeen putting away for some time,
like maybe relationshipdifficulties, maybe depression,
anxiety.
You know we're pretty good atbusying ourselves up and not
(04:46):
really dealing with those things, but you know, being an empty
nester is a great time to maybeunpack some of the difficulties
or some of the traumaticexperiences in your past or
maybe some mental health issuesthat you've been kind of
sweeping under the rug.
So there is good to being anempty nester when it comes to
like time for yourself and timeto maybe explore some of the
(05:10):
things you've been strugglingwith but you really just didn't
want to confront.
So that is where maybe I wouldsay but the other part would be
yes, you know what that kind ofloss can also trigger an
individual to experience like agreat deal of anxiety or
depression or you know othermental health challenges.
(05:30):
So I mean it could be.
You know, either of the two.
We wouldn't rule out.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (05:35):
Absolutely no.
That makes a lot of sense.
So, thinking about that nextstep, that transition in life
now that their child's out ofthe house, how can empty nesters
find a new sense of purpose oridentity after their children
move out?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (05:48):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Well, listen, I think it'sreally important to start this
process before your child leavesthe nest.
I mean, you really need to kindof communicate your anxieties
and your fears with you knowothers.
I would say please don't giveinto the desire to talk about
that with your kid, because youreally want them to experience
(06:12):
that journey to the fullest.
So you really don't want tocontinue an enmeshment with your
child.
So I think it's natural to saythings like you know I'm, you
know I'm excited for you to moveon, but you know I do feel sad
because I've really loved youknow I'm I'm excited for you to
move on, but you know I do feelsad because I've really loved
you know you being at home andI've enjoyed this relationship.
So, yes, you need to expressthose feelings and maybe some
anxieties.
(06:33):
I would try to find um peers,you know, like other parents
who've experienced this before.
Or if you don't know anyone, Ithink it's important to reach
out.
You know, obviously talkingwith a therapist is a great
outlet and you know we arealways here to listen.
And you know, walk that journeywith you.
I think it's important to havediscussions with your kids about
(06:54):
anything you're anxious about,in particular because I know
there's a lot of.
You know there's a lot outthere about, like, kids being
safe and all these terriblethings that happen to kids when
they go to college.
But you have to kind ofremember that those are very
isolated event events andinstances.
So if it makes you feel better,listen, talk about you know
what the expectation is for yourkids if they encounter a
(07:16):
medical emergency.
Or let's talk about campussafety.
Or let's talk about, you know,drinking and you know six, you
know getting rides home andbeing safe, like I think if
you've covered those topics withyour kid, it will certainly
lessen the anxiety because youfeel like your children are
prepared.
(07:37):
I'd also, you know, trysomething new, like try to
incorporate something new intoyour lifestyle.
Try something new like try toincorporate something new into
your lifestyle, be social, youknow, explore some hobbies,
maybe go back to work if that'ssomething you desire.
But I think starting early cankind of help ease that
transition for you and for yourchild.
But again, if you're having,you know, difficulty coping with
(08:01):
this or you don't have someoneto speak to that you feel
comfortable with, you shouldalways reach out to a
professional therapist and justlet them walk that journey with
you so that you have someone totalk to about it.
Because I think the sooner youget kind of on top of those
emotions, the easier it is towork through them and process
them when the actual day comes.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (08:24):
I love that you think about, like you
know, starting that early sothat when it happens you know
you're ready for that.
And I mean I'm still a littleearly out.
I've got a 10 year old and a 12year old, but kind of putting
myself in the mindset of one daythat will come.
I think one of my burningquestions which you know is
probably like subjective andit's based on individual
(08:45):
relationships that parents havewith their kiddos, cause not
every parent's the same, notevery kiddo is the same.
What, in your opinion, is agood, healthy communication
frequency for parents tocommunicate with their children
once they leave the nest?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (09:01):
You know, I love that you asked that
question because I had thisconversation with some of my um.
I have some young people incollege right now.
Um one's in graduate school, soI feel like that doesn't really
count as much.
But I have one that's goinginto her junior year of college
and we talked about this and Ifeel like, um, you know, in the
beginning I think there's norules, right, you're doing
(09:24):
what's comfortable for you andyour student.
I'd say student because I don'twant to say child, because once
they go to college they're anadult.
But I think that's really whatmakes them feel comfortable in
the beginning.
But I would say a healthycommunication with you and your
young person would probably bemaybe one phone call a week.
(09:45):
You know, I know it's adifferent time than it was, you
know, 20 years ago or 25 yearsago, when we had text messaging
and whatnot.
And I do think you know, Iunderstand that we have a
texting relationship with ourkids and I know that.
You know I have that with mykids too, like, you know, if I'm
out and I see something and I'mlike, oh, what do you think
about this?
But I would really try toresist the desire to constantly
(10:10):
be in contact with your youngperson.
In my opinion I don't know thatthat's entirely necessary, but
you know, just touching baseperiodically through the week, I
think the bigger concern wouldbe you know, how often is your
young person requesting to comehome?
(10:32):
You know, I think maybe twicein the semester, outside of
holidays, is probably normal.
But I think what, as atherapist, would concern me is
if your young person isrequesting to come home a lot,
like every other weekend orevery weekend, I think that's
something that would concern me.
Um, just because I think thereality is, when you go away to
(10:53):
college, when you leave the nest, you are going to explore your
independence and your autonomyoutside of your family unit, and
if your young person is notdoing that effectively, if
they're not staying orexperiencing those things, then
I think you have to start to askquestions.
You have to wonder.
You know what's going on.
Is it?
You know?
(11:14):
Could it be depression, couldit be anxiety?
Because I know a lot of peopleexperience those things you know
, around the age of you know, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,.
You know, we really see a lotof that come to the surface in
that age group.
So I think it's definitelyworth exploring.
But to answer your question, Iwould say a phone call or Zoom
(11:35):
once a week is really what youwant to kind of aim to get to.
And I don't think there's aproblem with texting your you
know your young personperiodically.
But I think when it gets to thepoint where you're constantly
in communication with that youngperson, you're not allowing
them the autonomy that theydeserve to grow and find their
own independence and assertthemselves be for you would be
(12:00):
like if they were coming homefrequently.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (12:02):
And I'm a huge fan of like self disclosure
on the podcast, because Ialways think about these things
that like in my brain, like Icould connect what you're saying
to like personal experience.
So not a super long story, butwhat came to mind when you said
that was I remembered when Iwent off to college for the
first time.
It was a nightmare.
(12:23):
And the place, the school thatI went it was a small school up
in North Georgia and I was therefor, I think, maybe like a
month or two, and I was cominghome every single weekend.
I did not want to be there.
Incredibly toxic, cattyenvironment.
Like they pushed like veryspecific beliefs down
(12:45):
everybody's throat.
You could not be an individual.
It felt like I left my smallGeorgia town of home and moved
to an even smaller town whereeverybody was like very judgy
and it was just awful.
So I and I wanted nothing to dowith it.
And to the point to where, likeI would go to the grocery store
and buy food to keep in my dormroom, just so I wouldn't have
to like go eat in the cafeteriawith the people.
(13:07):
So, needless to say, like Ipacked everything I owned and
just like put it in my car andeventually went home.
But yeah, no, like that'sdefinitely something you want to
be on the lookout for if you'rea parent and you're, you know,
young adult leaves home and thenyou're seeing them for dinner
every day, like something's notgoing right either.
(13:29):
Like you know, like you said,they're not really pushing
themselves to get out therebecause you know it's scary and
it's new, or like how's thisenvironment where they currently
are, like why are they notenjoying being there, where they
would rather be home, whereit's comfortable and safe?
Like, is that a them thing thatwe need to address and work
through, or is that anenvironmental thing that we need
to address and work through?
(13:50):
So that's a really, reallygreat point.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (13:52):
And I think , like the coping mechanisms
really have to be there foryoung people to be successful
when they leave the nest right,Because everybody has a bad
first roommate.
I mean, this is generalizing,but you hear the common problems
with college kids, and the kidsthat have really healthy coping
mechanisms are the ones thatusually find the most success.
(14:13):
Now, I mean, listen, there arealways exceptions to that rule.
Maybe you chose a universityyou spoke about and you weren't
really clear on what thatenvironment looked like, and
after one semester you were, youknow, done with that that
university and it was time tomove on, which is totally
healthy too.
But I think for the averageyoung person, if you have the
(14:35):
right coping mechanisms in place, they will be successful.
They do not need to come homeevery weekend to escape, you
know, the uncomfortableness ofbeing new or not having
friendships or sitting alone,Cause I think these are all
skills that we learn as youngpeople, whether we're in school
or not.
Right, Like you have to, yougot to learn how to eat lunch on
(14:55):
your own, because one dayyou're going to have a job or
you're going to be in a placewhere you have to do something
that feels uncomfortable.
So what's great about therapyis that we teach people how to
be comfortable with beinguncomfortable.
You know, if that's notsomething that you've gotten
from your caretakers or yourparents, then this is a great
spot for it.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (15:15):
So you know my opinion, no, and I love
that opinion and Iwholeheartedly agree.
Like I definitely say, like ittook me longer than a lot of
people, because I grew up anonly child, to develop that
being okay with like feelinguncomfortable resilience that
(15:35):
you need to be a successfuladult and thrive out there.
So you know, much younger itwould have terrified me to go to
a movie by myself and sit aloneand have a meal.
And now I'm like working withclients on like you don't
understand it's so great outhere Once you can just get
comfortable in your own skin andfind that purpose and like
happiness within you, like itdoesn't have to always be
(15:58):
attached to another person andunfortunately, like you know
folks that don't overcome thaton their own and you know,
constantly look in to otherpeople to find that you know
value or those affirmations orreally that purpose.
That's where we sometimes see,you know, really unhealthy
(16:19):
attachments and relationshipsdevelop.
So, absolutely Therapist totherapist, I think our common
theme we're sharing right now is, the sooner you can get okay
with being you and being you outand about and you doing the
things that you enjoy, you'llfeel very confident and
comfortable and be verywell-rounded into going out
there and you know, being a partof a relationship or being a
(16:42):
better friend.
So definitely something to try,either on your own or with the
support of a therapist.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (16:49):
Yeah, and also acknowledging that you know
everybody's experiencing thesame feelings, right, but we
don't know that until we sharethat with someone else.
That's an important message foryoung people is to understand
that they're just not alone inthose thoughts or those feelings
and parents too.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (17:05):
So, thinking about our young adults,
how can young adults overcomethe fear or anxiety associated
with leaving the nest?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (17:15):
So I would say, there it's preparation and
communication.
I think young people should beencouraged to voice anxieties,
concerns.
This should be an ongoingdiscussion with your young
person, because I think it isvery natural to feel both of
those things before going off tocollege.
Sometimes young people havedifficulty speaking with their
(17:39):
caregivers or their parentsabout these things.
So, you know, an objectiveparty is always great for a
young person because then theycan express those emotions
without judgment.
So if there's not someone theyfeel close to that they could
communicate with.
Again, having a therapist is agreat idea, because a great
therapist is going to validatethose feelings and encourage
(17:59):
them to kind of keep going onthat journey of independence.
And just preparing, like whatare they having anxiety about?
Where does their, you know,concern lie?
Are they nervous aboutschedules?
Are they nervous aboutfriendships?
I mean, there's just so manythings to think about.
So I think preparation andcommunication would be probably
(18:21):
the two most important things totake into consideration.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (18:25):
And I know you mentioned, you know worry
about schedules and you knowreally getting to the bottom of
like what are they worried about, is a great strategy.
So then, thinking about that,what, what psychological factors
might contribute to a youngadults, like reluctance to leave
home?
Ericka Connor, LMSW (18:44):
Well, I mean, I think the reality is, if
a young person has any type ofunderlying mental health
disorder I mean so many kidsstruggle with anxiety and
depression.
I mean we can go on and onabout the causes of those and
social media and you know allthose great things, but I
definitely think if your childhas any kind of underlying
(19:07):
mental health disorder, I thinkthey're going to be the young
person that's going to strugglea little bit more, maybe have
more concerns.
I think there's some familydynamics that can come into play
too.
I think we have talked a littlebit about enmeshment, where
maybe that young person feelstheir parents rely on them, you
know, or their parents' identityis wrapped up in their young
(19:31):
person.
So the young person reallyfeels a reluctance to leave
because they don't want todisconnect.
We have like birth order right.
Like your oldest child isprobably going to be a little
bit more nervous or concerned,because that's just who they are
and what their make is, youknow they're a little bit more
cautious.
Is there dysfunction in thefamily?
(19:53):
I mean, do are they afraid toleave?
Because if they left, maybe youknow there's alcoholism or
there's, you know, relationshipproblems with the parents and
the young person is there tokind of be a mediator.
There's just there's so manythings to take into
consideration.
I think the primary one is arethey supported in their decision
(20:14):
to leave the nest Like, do theyfeel encouragement?
Do they feel like you know theycan call home if they're
worried or they need support?
So there's a lot that goes intoit.
But I definitely think ifthere's dysfunction or mental
health concerns, it's going tobe a more difficult transition
just by nature of you know whatthey're struggling with already.
But I think that a very wellsupported, balanced individual
(20:40):
is not going to have as muchdifficulty as maybe somebody who
has some dysfunction or mentalhealth in their background.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (20:46):
That makes a lot of sense.
So, thinking about it from atherapist aspect or like a
clinical aspect, what are someeffective interventions that
you've utilized, that you've you?
Know, researched that you'veheard that you've heard of that
are really helpful for familiesthat are struggling with this
transition.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (21:05):
I mean, I really do think that goal
setting and mindfulness therapyI think both of those together
will create a recipe for success.
I think you have to understand,like, what is the goal of that
child going on or that youngperson going on to college or to
(21:27):
leave the home?
Like what's their goal?
Their goal is to be independent, healthy young people.
So you always have to reallykeep that in mind and I think we
also need to remember that thisis the ultimate reward of
parenting.
This is the goal of parentingis to raise a young person to be
healthy and happy andindependent, and we really want
that success for them.
So you have to remember that'sthe goal.
(21:51):
You also have to take care ofyourself.
I mean as a parent and a youngperson.
Be kind to yourself.
I mean you are going tostruggle.
You might feel as a youngperson, you might feel, you know
, anxious or upset, or maybeyou're doing you know you're
doing Greek life and you don'tget the house you want.
And you have to reallyunderstand that there's going to
be failures along withsuccesses when you leave, and I
(22:14):
think parents have to rememberthat too, like you're not going
to be great at everything whenyour young person leaves.
It might take you a little bitlonger to get past it and to
kind of grieve the loss of thatrelationship with your young
person as you know it.
But you really have to bemindful of where you are and
where you will be, because downthe road it'll pay off.
(22:37):
You'll have such a fulfillingrelationship with your young
person If you were there to walkthat journey with them to
independence.
And young people should alsoremember not to ask, for you
know you have to ask for help.
You have to feel like you canask for help or talk to someone
when you're really struggling,because validating those
feelings and kind of movingthrough them is what gets you to
(22:58):
the end goal.
So those are the two things Iwould recommend remembering.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (23:04):
Those are wonderful recommendations.
Thinking about, if it were youradvice and you were talking to
parents and young adults, whatwould your advice be?
To facilitate like a smoothtransition To parents.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (23:18):
Give yourself grace and understand
that everybody's journey isunique.
Some folks take a little bitlonger to adjust to this new
transition than others, soplease give yourself grace.
Parents should view this phaseof life as acknowledgement of
success, because our job asparents is to raise a child who
will eventually becomecompletely independent of us,
(23:38):
and this phase should becompared to like potty training
or attending kindergarten.
However painful, it's justanother phase in life and I
really encourage parents toembrace this phase so that your
young person respects you as aparent and hopefully wants to be
your friend with you as anadult.
And to young people I would saydo not give into isolation.
(23:58):
I would say yes to allreasonable invitations.
I mean go to dinner, go to themovies, go to football, go to
study club.
Just say yes to all reasonableinvitations, because isolation
is not a productive behavior.
It can be difficult to try newthings, but you can do it and
you need to just embrace yourindependence and just, most of
(24:21):
all, if you're having difficulty, know that you're not the first
one and talk to somebody.
Please just reach out and talkto someone if you're having
difficulty.
Dr. Elizabeth Barlow (24:29):
Thank you so much, erica Connor, lmsw, for
joining us today to talk aboutfailure to launch and empty
nesters.
I think it's been a reallygreat discussion and there's
been tons of really great tipsand advice.
Again, we definitely want tocenter on you don't have to go
through this alone, like find acommunity.
Talk to a professional.
(24:50):
If anyone out there iscurrently experiencing this,
either you know an empty nesteror a young adult.
Erica does have availability inher caseload to work with new
clients and help, like she said,walk this journey with you.
Erica also specializes inanxiety, behavioral issues,
coping skills and depression.
(25:11):
She works with groups aroundbody positivity, those who are
currently going through cancerand single mothers.
Her age groups that she treatsare teenagers 13 years of age
and up, as well as adults.
You can book with Erica bycalling our scheduling team at
866-846-7765 or going to herprofile at kindermindcom.
(25:37):
Thank you so much again, erica.
It was such a pleasure talkingto you.
Ericka Connor, LMSW (25:42):
Oh, thanks for having me.
I really appreciate itAbsolutely.
You take care.
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