October 8, 2024 • 40 mins
Ready to dive into another amazing microschool this week? Tara Larsen from Flagstaff, Arizona, shares her journey from public school parent to Prenda guide. Tara's microschool is a shining light of joyful learning.
Listeners will gain insights into how microschools maintain a learner-centered approach, allowing students to enter a flow state where engagement and curiosity lead to deeper learning experiences. The episode underscores the influence of modeling behaviors for children and challenges listeners to rethink generational teaching patterns. Discover how Prenda's culture empowers children to set and surpass their own learning goals, dispelling myths about student motivation while revealing surprising stories of growth and ambition.
In the final segment, Tara opens up about overcoming societal pressures and initial fears to embrace non-traditional education for her own children. She highlights the benefits of goal setting and autonomy, and the role of Prenda guides in creating magic through supportive and engaging educational spaces.
Learn more about the professional development opportunities for Prenda guides and the supportive community that encourages innovative educational approaches.
Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!
About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
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Interested in starting a microschool?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Kindled podcast where we dig
into the art and science behindkindling, the motivation,
curiosity and mental well-beingof the young humans in our lives
.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Together, we'll discover practical tools and
strategies you can use to helpkids unlock their full potential
and become the strongestversion of their future selves.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to the Kindle podcast, everyone.
Today we are wrapping up ourthree-part series on what
empowered learning looks like inthe wild or in a friend of my
girl's school.
Not that they're wild, they'revery organized places.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You guys are very full of well the one today.
She is near wood and she rideshorses, so I would say it
definitely is in the wild.
There you go.
So who are we talking to today?
Today we are talking to TaraLarson, and she is just so fun.
She's the best personality.
I've met her a couple of timesat Prenda cons, which is a
(01:08):
conference that we do for ourPrenda guides.
Her energy just fills the room,so I cannot wait to talk to her
and about how she runs hermaker school.
So let's go talk to Tara.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Tara, welcome to the Kindle podcast.
We're super excited to talk toyou today.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
All right.
So tell everyone a little bitabout your background and just
give us your story.
Who are you?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So my name is Tara Larson and I'm originally from
Queen Creek, arizona.
Down the valley I moved toFlagstaff, arizona, about 25
years ago where I was attendingNorthern Arizona University,
where I got to compete in trackand field and I got my degree in
health sciences with anemphasis in nutrition, and there
(01:53):
I met my husband of 20 years.
We have seven children.
We have three girls and fourboys, and our family loves
sports.
So every season we're doingwhatever sports happening that
season and I'm a career coach soI love coaching.
I do speed training for a lotof teams in our community, I do
(02:14):
our softball team and I dotravel softball teams, all-star
baseball teams, and I lovecoaching basketball.
And our team loves to or myfamily loves to hike and we want
to be fishermen.
We're always hoping to catch afish.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're like a big team.
I like it that you calledyourself a team.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And we have horses, so we train a lot of ponies and
just problem horses.
And then I love being a printguide.
It's my real passion.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That is awesome.
Okay, so can you describe yourmicro school and how it differs
from, like a traditionalclassroom.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, so I'll start kind of from the beginning.
When we started micro school,the families that were with us,
they knew what they didn't want,so they didn't want to wear
masks and they didn't want afull, you know long school week
and they knew they wanted nopopular political or social
trends.
But we didn't really know whatwe could have.
(03:15):
And when we started Prenda itopened this plethora of things
we didn't know that wasavailable to us.
So things like a four-dayschool week, a shorter school
day, assessments as opposed totesting every week or every day,
and then mastery-based learningwas like a really big idea for
(03:36):
us.
And then interest-basedlearning and then collaborative
problem solving and then thegoal-based learning.
So now we've taken the idea ofPrenda and took it farther
beyond we ever knew possible.
So every week the kids get toride horses, we do monthly field
trips, we cook every Thursdayin my home, we do career days
(04:00):
where we invite people from thecommunity to come to our home
and expose the kids to differentcareer paths.
We do service projects everymonth.
We love doing like studentbased activities, spirit days or
plays or recitals, things thatthey love.
So it looks a lot differentthan where we started of things,
(04:20):
like we knew what we didn'twant and now what we love of
things like we knew what wedidn't want and now what we love
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I love that.
I love to see how each Prendamicro school and it's not just
one micro school You've createdkind of like a little cluster of
micro schools out there.
How many micro schools do youhave in Flagstaff now?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Well, it's mainly because I have seven children,
so I just found guides for theirage levels.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
You can have him and you can have her.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So there's six of us that work together doing
different age groups.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That's really cool because I think it's important
to have to give kids this senseof small, like little, like
intimate, connected, but thenit's also fun to have like a
little bit of the big right.
I think a lot of people thatstart micro-schooling there are
parts of having a largercommunity that they miss, and
this is a perfect way to solvethat with micro schooling is
through, like, these clusters ofmicro schools.
(05:13):
We have the same thing in myneighborhood too, where we have,
we have a handful of microschools and then we go do field
trips and you like you knowthere's you're sharing siblings
between these micro schools andit's just like really, really
fun.
I love it.
Okay, what inspired you tobecome a Prenda guide and start
your micro school and talk usthrough like the feelings of
like what that was like for you?
(05:33):
Did you like how did you hearabout Prenda?
And were you like, oh yeah,I've got this?
Or were you nervous to start it?
Like, tell us that story.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and were your kids homeschooled before or were
they in regular school?
Love to hear that part too.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah.
So my inspiration to become aPrenda guide was after COVID,
our community.
We started a homeschool co-op.
So moms and I we would switchoff here's my kid, there's your
kid and we loved working likeright alongside our kiddos,
giving them new material,figuring out things that they
loved, and we had never beenhomeschoolers.
We were the kind that probablymade fun of them.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think I was in that camp too, and now I'm like the
one that makes fun of it, theother side.
No, I'm kidding, I try not todo either.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah.
So pretty early on we learnedthe fallacy, though, in this
method.
We were trying to recreatepublic school and we could see
that even kids that were exactsame age, maybe even levels of
interest, they were on differentlevels.
And then the other thing is wehad workbooks, which was
(06:41):
beautiful for parents andorganized, but it seemed like
something was missing, that theway to teach them is to flip the
page, and I just could never,like, how do we solve this?
And then the other thing that,as a homeschooler, we love the
idea of being with our kids.
We felt like man, why weren't wegiven this permission that we
have everything we need to teachthem or to expose them to new
knowledge?
(07:01):
Like, why weren't we given thispermission that we have
everything we need to teach themor to expose them to new
knowledge?
Like, why weren't we given thatpermission?
But as a homeschooler, you feltlike you were disciplining them
through education, throughtheir chores, because it's turn
the next page, go to the nextthing.
So we needed a practice thathelped empower them, and so,
(07:25):
about a year into it, a friendapproached us and she had joined
Prenda and she's like hey,you're having these problems,
try this game changer.
But it answered mastery-basedlearning for us, interest-based
learning, empowered learning,setting goals, and it was the
answer to what I couldn't figureout learning, setting goals,
and it was the answer to what Icouldn't figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That is awesome, okay , so talk us through what your
physical space looks like,because, as we know, micro
schools can be in homes.
I've been to ones that are in adance studio and a community
center and a OT facility.
So what does your space looklike and how does it work with
the other guides that you workwith as well?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So the way that we've developed the space is, through
time, just based on needs.
So, as a coach, I had everyball net bat.
Whatever they wanted to play, Iwas ready for it.
I had tons of saddles for myhorses and we backed the forest
so we could hike till, you know,days end.
But as far as the internalspace, where the you know, a lot
(08:28):
of the learning happens, thathas been developing over time.
So we had a space in the backthat was like a mother-in-law's
quarters and it had randomchairs in it and we've just over
time, accumulated comfybeanbags and little tables and,
you know round chairs and layoutchairs.
And then we got whiteboardsthat they can do collaborative
(08:51):
problem solving.
We purchased a TV where we canwatch videos together and now we
have, you know, posters thathave Spanish verses on them or
we have like desks where theycan put you know, any of the
projects that they're working on.
So it's an ever changingenvironment.
But, as soon you know, wewanted to make it like public
(09:15):
school and then we learned thehome is the perfect place to
learn.
We don't need to make thisstuff up, it's all here.
We have a kitchen for cookingand the outdoors for exploring.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I love that.
So talk to us a little bitabout how you create culture in
your micro school.
How do you create positive,like a positive supportive
learning atmosphere,relationships, like talk about
that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
So the way that we encouragesupportive and positive
interactions within our studentsis first going by the Prenda
core value, which is start withheart.
And I'll be perfectly honest, Ilove kids but I'm a very
competitive, I'm a coach, so I'mnaturally training kids for
their betterment, you know, andI'm like encouraging your best
(10:02):
kind of environment.
So I've really had to growwithin myself as a guide and as
a like a mom, and I would saythat this is one of Prenda's
biggest ideologies, likemastery-based learning, that's
big empowerment learning.
But connecting with kids,that's our job.
That's literally what we're you, we're here to do as a guide.
(10:25):
So in the day to day it lookslike every morning, because it's
a small class size.
We see the kids eye to eyeevery morning.
We can welcome them, say helloto them, ask them how their game
went or how the guitar practicewent or how Fluffy's doing, and
(10:45):
so we're always trying to meetthem where they are.
What are you doing?
And then we um every day workon the printa based database
that is called camp.
So on mondays we do community,on tuesdays we do autonomy, on
wednesdays is mindset, and thenthursdays we work on purpose and
these we do journal entries, wedo team building games, we have
(11:05):
motivational videos, books, andthe kids choose.
You know what they want tolearn about that day, and to me,
that really creates thiscommunity that we're constantly
talking about it, that we'rehere to support you, and then
finally, we work with them withtheir goals.
Right, we're talking likewhat's your purpose, why are we
doing this, what are you workingon, what are you excited about
(11:26):
and how we incorporate that isthat every day we're trying to
do something that they want todo, that they're working on.
One of our students loves tosing, so we got a karaoke set
and during brain break she sings.
One of our students lovesarchaeology, so we got molds,
and every day they were puttingfossils and rocks in the mold.
(11:47):
You know digging with thethings, and on Thursdays we have
them plan a meal Like what doyou want to eat?
And they plan that.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
What do you want to eat?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That's so awesome.
And then on my side I try to dowhat I call continuing
education.
So I've done continuededucation through Brenda.
And then I constantly listen tothe Kindle podcast myself.
I read the self-driven childlike on repeat.
I have highlights on it andlike books like the Whole Child.
(12:20):
So I'm constantly trying tokeep myself in that mindset.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So I'm constantly trying to keep myself in that
mindset.
That's so important because somuch of what our kids and our
students will take from theireducation isn't just like what
fractions are, it's like who weare.
You know, like we are going torub off on them and like they're
going to become like us.
So making sure that as we asadults are demonstrating,
modeling that like we're alsoempowered learners and that we
(12:44):
can be humble and we can makemistakes and we can apologize
and we can do better, we canrepair relationships and we can
treat kids with a profoundrespect that isn't kind of isn't
commonly found in a traditionalclassroom or just in society.
You know, just because someone'slittle doesn't mean they don't
get to make choices, doesn'tmean their voice doesn't matter,
all of these things that wekind of assume really
(13:06):
accidentally.
I don't think we do itintentionally.
It's just kind of the waythings are.
And until you take thatintentional look and get some
other, I love how you're likeseeking out and other influences
, um, trying to like round thatout.
I I love your commitment tothat.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, I do too, Cause when it's front of mind it's
easier to do.
I just created a reel forInstagram yesterday and I'm
saying all these things and thenI turn off the camera and then
there's explosions happening inmy house and I'm like, okay,
Adrian, you just told otherpeople on the internet that this
is what you're supposed to bedoing, you know.
(13:43):
So it's like connect before youcorrect name it, detain it, and
so if it's not front of mindand if you're not continually
reading about these things andreminding yourself, it's so easy
to just go right back intopatterns.
And you know, these patternsaren't just from our own
childhoods, but they could befrom just generational patterns.
(14:03):
And so I love that you are justkeeping that front of mind and
you're continually learning andgrowing, because it sounds to me
like you are an empoweredlearner as well, which is how
again what Katie said kids learnso much more from us as we
model, versus just telling themwhat to do.
So next question is how do youbalance structure and
(14:27):
flexibility in your micro school?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah.
So how I naturally balance umstructure is that I love lists
and I love right planning and itworks out really well for
organizing a day, but soon,within a year, of being a print,
a guide, I realized that thatwas bogus, not just because kids
kind of resist that, but Ilearned in the self-driven child
(14:53):
.
Which made so much sense to meis that kids will get into what
they call a flow or like we canterm it like, a structured,
focused learning time, and theyenter that very early on.
When they're interested insomething and they're playing
like superheroes or they'remaking a structure with blocks,
they you don't need to tell themto do that, they just do it.
(15:14):
You know.
Well, this happens daily, notevery day with every student,
but it happens with kids andthey're interested in something
and then you're like okay, nowit's time to open your books to
46.
You just messed everything up,so true, we just stopped with
that flow, yeah, so I've reallytaken a step back from that, and
(15:39):
this could even be in theday-to-day where we're in brain
break and they've created a ninesquare game with different
rules and then we come out.
Come out, excuse me, children,we need to go to our science
experience and you're like theywere so into it.
Everybody was involved andeveryone had a part and they
were dicing out the game rulesand so I've learned like you
have to have structure, becauseus adults we think it's cool,
(16:03):
but kids they like thrive on theidea that you see them for like
humans, not for things to beacted upon or, like you know,
put in to, to practice, you knowyeah, so much.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So much of the time, like we think, when you walk
into a classroom, if it's likequiet and everyone's sitting in
their desks and they're likewriting and they're like on task
, we think that the kids, thatthat's a good classroom and that
, like the kids are learning.
But a lot of those kids are justlike doing something they've
already know or they're likespending so much of their energy
trying to hold still thatthey're not really focused on
(16:40):
what they're supposed to belearning.
You know, it's kind of like adog and pony show a little bit
and it's like, well, if youactually let kids be humans and
actually allow them to engagewith things that are interesting
and stimulating to their brains, like this game that you're
describing, it's like man,there's so much good cognitive
work going on in that, in thatflow state, and, yeah, we always
(17:01):
just want to jump in there andbe like well, we need to get
back to this like ideal picture,this invented picture that we
have of what school looks likeor what good looks like or what
excellence, like all of thesethings.
We kind of have theseperceptions of what we should be
doing when really we need to belike going with the flow of
their interests and engagement,and I'd love to hear a little
bit more about how you, likeyou've talked about, like, not
(17:23):
interrupting that flow, but thenwhen you are doing the
academics, what does that looklike?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So we start off each morning we do this introduction,
kind of like these icebreakers.
We have a student leader thatwelcomes everything, but we
found that kids when they get toschool, they actually really
want to learn it.
They want to go at it.
So we've actually flowed withthem what works for them and
that's like their prime time.
(17:47):
It's like time to learn.
So once kids are in the Prendaculture, which I would say is
empowered based learning, wherethey're setting their own goals,
I'm not telling them what to do.
They're going after it and I'mjust like here to cheer you on.
They're going after it and I'mjust like here to cheer you on,
Isn't?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
it funny that we have this perception that if you let
kids choose, they won't doanything.
Or, like you, know that theywill choose to be lazy or
whatever.
Like kids definitely want tolearn and we see this in the
data at Prenda.
You know we have a softwaresystem that tracks everyone's
goals and we can see those goalsholistically.
And on average, kids aresetting a goal of 1.8 years of
(18:26):
growth in math and reading.
And it's like wow, if I, if yousit down and say, hey, what do
you think you could do in thisyear, they choose to do almost
twice what their same agetraditionally schooled peers do.
And it's like if you give thema hopeful path where they feel
like I can win here, theyabsolutely will run so hard and
that you won't have to likecarrot and stick them into it.
(18:48):
Like you're observing, it'slike I just have to get out of
the way.
Have you ever had a?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
student that doesn't do that, though, cause I have
been in a lot of micro schoolsand there's one it's only one,
though, out of probably thehundreds that I've been into
that this, the guide, was justat such a loss with this student
who she's like he just sleeps,he just has.
You know, he's like hisgrandpa's, really wealthy, and
(19:13):
he's just going to inherit hismoney.
He doesn't need to do anything,and she's like I just don't
know what else to do.
How do I motivate this kid?
So have you ever had a singlestudent that wasn't just
motivated, or they're just like?
So maybe it's.
It is the environment that youset up.
I'm wondering.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
None of this is perfect and this is this is
daily, but I I do.
You know this is not just aplug, for you know the class
that Katie taught of theadvanced guide training, but it
was a life changer.
It was right when I needed it.
I had a student that I wantedto diagnose, like I wanted to
(19:50):
tell his mom.
I know what's going on.
That wasn't my role, I didn'tneed to do that, and the things
that I learned from that classmade me actually stay alive and
him stay alive.
So we're alive today.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And he was tough.
He was really tough for me, andnot that he was lazy, but he
had his own idea of what wouldhappen that day, from minute to
minute, from day to day.
And I've had several since him,but I can go in with it with
much more relaxation because Ihave tools under my belt and
Adrian said it right.
So instead of like labelingthem, like this child, it's more
(20:33):
like you get curious hey, howare you doing?
How's that snake Pedro doing?
And then they're like oh hi,you're talking to me, snake
Pedro doing.
And then they're like oh hi,you're talking to me, you know.
And they're they're like excitedand that doesn't what they're
interested in yeah, and it maynot change their goal, may stay
still at, you know, whatever lowit is, but I love them and they
love me and we're movingforward.
(20:53):
So I was gonna say I do have astruggle.
Sometimes in the afternoon Iwill have this struggle.
Sometimes in the afternoon Iwill have this really cool
activity and this might evenmean riding horses, which is my
favorite ever.
And not every student of mineloves horses and so they don't
all ride, and in the beginningthat was tough for me.
Like I am providing you withthe coolest possible thing in
(21:16):
the entire world.
What are you doing?
And I've learned to relax inthat, but I still.
It's hard for me when there'sso many interests, even if that
means times 10, that's not verymany interests, but that's times
10.
And they all want to dodifferent things and it is a
struggle for a guy to separateyour mind.
(21:36):
Like you want to use what in mywhere, with how many?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
like, what are you saying?
So that is something that Icontinue to have to work with.
Yeah, it's totally balancingthat is is always tricky, but I
think, um, if you pull back alittle bit and look at how, like
that just means that they arecurious, interested, engaged and
on fire.
Like that just means that theyare curious, interested, engaged
and on fire, right.
So it's like, okay, yes, it's alot to balance, but that's, we
(22:05):
would so much rather balancethat than disengaged, apathetic
and like fighting you on things.
Right, at least they like arealive inside and like have have
a fire.
Can I share, like, a reallyinteresting thing that I just
learned?
Um, as we're talking aboutlighting fires and Kindle, the
Kindle podcast and Prenda, um, Iwas talking to this guy um,
there's a nonprofit that helps,um, that helps.
(22:27):
They set up little librariesall over the world and they'll
like staff it with librarian andthey do all this cool education
stuff.
And I got connected to themthrough a friend and they're
going to start using treasurehunt reading in these, um, micro
schools.
But this guy was talking to you, he was in Columbia and he was
like what does Prenda mean?
And I kind of gave him thenormal spiel about, like how
Prenda means gift in Portugueseand it sounds like a friend air
(22:48):
in Spanish, just to learnlearning as a gift.
You know our little thing thatwe say, and he's like heo un
fuego like to light a fire, andI'm like what it means to light
a fire and I was like, yeah,that is just like so shocking
that has this third meaning thatwe didn't know about.
But that is what you're doing.
You're creating thisenvironment where kids can be
(23:10):
alive inside, and I just it.
While it does definitely likebends your mind sometimes to be
like, wait, there's too much,this is very chaotic.
Or you know, like we have tobalance this and you do have to
get to a place of like, yes,there's interest and yes,
there's structure, and you canfind this balance.
But just to know that your kidsare like passionate and alive
humans and we're not likebeating the the curiosity and
(23:31):
passion out of them so early,like that's amazing.
I love that.
So we've talked about this alittle bit.
But what are some more ways youencourage meaningful
interactions between students?
Like, how do you build thesefriendships?
How do you or how do you dealwith conflict?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know what is the peer to peer interaction look
like so the way that weencourage meaningful
interactions um to me, is is aday to day effort, Prenda,
though how I think it makes it10 times easier because of a
smaller learning environment andthen different age levels.
(24:03):
I think this would be sowidespread if people understood
this idea of like pecking orders.
It happens in horses, like whenyou're training young horses,
you use an experienced horse tolead the young horse, and even
when you're on a trail ride,there'll be a trail boss horse
that will naturally lead.
There'll be horses that follow.
(24:24):
There'll be horses that aremares.
They're the same and they donot ride next to each other.
Well, that's real.
So I find that that's one ofthe magics is there's different
ages, different sexes, and thesecan really interact more
healthy.
But it goes without fail.
Every day there's littlesquabbles that happen within our
(24:46):
unit, but what we found is thattruly what Prenda is trying to
inspire us as guides is thatwhen you connect with
individuals, with kids, and theyfeel like they've been heard,
they've got to say that excitingthing they've been thinking
about all night and they've beenseen oh, that dress that you
wore or your Crocs that you gotthen they feel safe, and when
(25:09):
they feel safe.
They don't threaten otherpeople.
And that's not that we do itperfect either.
Sometimes we have squabbles,but just through that, you know
kind of training that I've hadis seeing students for
individuals I think has made ahuge difference in my parenting.
I have seven kids.
(25:30):
I have a whole community rightin my house and then through my
Prinda is just connecting withkids before I'm disciplining
them and that's amazing, okay,so how do you tailor their
learning experience to eachstudent's needs and their
interests?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
We talked a little bit about this, but I would like
to get a little more specific.
And how do you encourage yourstudents to take ownership over
their learning?
Because it sounds like they aredoing that.
So is that something you feellike you've done, or what are
some things that help that?
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Um.
So the way that we tailorlearning experiences to each
student is through the goalsetting.
For me, I think it's one of themost pivotal things that I'm
trying to incorporate in theirlearning.
So, first off, with eachmorning, we have the kids use
their autonomy.
Like autonomy is something thatrolls in my mind 50 times a day
is something that rolls in mymind 50 times a day.
(26:27):
So we have a student leader andthey say, okay, I'm gonna
choose Spanish to welcomeeverybody, or I'm gonna choose
ASL to welcome everybody.
And then, in their coresubjects, at the beginning of
the year, we have a meeting withtheir parent and with the
student.
We talk about long-term andshort-term goals, and these
goals because I've worked withsome of the kids a long time and
(26:48):
then, through assessmentsthey've taken, we set these
goals.
Now, these are ever-changing,we're constantly updating them
and figuring out new ways.
But it gives this guideline and, like I talked about, when
you're homeschooling, you'relike I need you to do, do, do,
do.
Well, through this goal-basedlearning, you take that out of
(27:09):
the equation.
Your new vocabulary is hey,what are your goals today?
Hey, what are you working ontoday?
And you're constantly it's onthem and that, to me.
It's exactly the empoweringword.
It gives it back to them.
It's not my problem, I don'teven.
What are you learning about.
So I love that.
(27:31):
And it takes off the control ofthe parents, which we don't need
.
That that's the kids.
They want that.
They want that in their lives,that they can do it on their own
.
They get to decide.
You know what they're doing.
And then, kind of alongside ofwhat I've said, in our weekly
activities we are, you know,asking them what they want to do
(27:54):
.
Where do you want to go thisweek?
What should we plan when we dothis?
How do you guys want to presentthis project?
What do you want to eat thisweek?
We continually are asking themto lead out and I feel like that
really helps their learningexperience, because it's theirs,
they picked it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So how do you feel like this empowering environment
has affected their academicperformance and their personal
growth?
How like tell me some storiesabout either academics or
personal growth that you've seen?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So, um, when I saw this question, I can really take
it to personally, to personal,personal experience.
I've had many kids andbeautiful success stories.
But my son, when he was likefirst to third grade, he was
struggling to read and I lovedschool like I loved every grade.
(28:44):
I loved, I had notebooks, I hadhighlighters, I loved pencils,
notebooks.
And then my kids struggled, I'dread to them every day.
It was life.
We have a library in our house.
What was happening?
I didn't know and I'd go tothese meetings and I'd feel like
a failure, not him, me, and Idon't know how to help this kid.
I am reading with him.
(29:05):
What do you want me to do?
And then COVID happened and welearned he had astigmatism in
his eye.
We later were able to gettherapy for his eye, but that's
when we came into Prinda andbefore school was discouraging.
School was the bad news thatwas going to tell us my kid
(29:26):
wasn't going to be good enoughever.
And he now, in Prinda, like, byhis eighth grade year he was
above grade level in allsubjects and he loves school,
like he's homeschooled, actuallyfor high school and motivated,
just he loves school.
And then my second son he wasin the younger classes and he
(29:47):
would write about grenadesfiring off and rifles in the
battlefield.
And the teacher would be like,so we're really concerned about
the material Giant's writingabout.
And I'd be like, should I beconcerned?
And it felt like school was abad.
Look on him.
You know like you don't fitinto this box that we're trying
(30:09):
to make.
You're supposed to be writingabout the magic tree house and a
dragon.
And so that was discouraging.
He kind of didn't like schoolbecause it didn't like him.
And now as apprentice studenthe's in middle school.
He's made a Bowie knife in hisclass.
He's made a cannon with a pipeand a football.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Please tell that story, not the cannon, it's the
best story, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So one day we're saying, okay, you need to make a
prototype for a project.
So Ryan's making this prototypeon paper and he's using pencils
and rulers and making all thisstuff and he's like, mom, I'm
going to make a cannon.
I'm like, oh, yeah, sure.
Well, over the course of theweeks he'd be like, mom, can I
go to the dump?
Let's get a pipe.
I'm like for what?
Oh, I got it.
(30:53):
Well, this keeps happening.
And one day we're inside makingthe kids lunch and we hear this
loud explosion like a bomb wentoff and a football is flying a
hundred yards into the forest.
And he had made a cannonwithout us even paying attention
to him.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
That's amazing.
That's like that's like a MarkRober story, like it's just like
oh, now he's Mark Rober and heunderstands the physics of that
and the chemistry of that andhopefully no one got hurt and it
was just a football, not a realcannon.
No one needs to call anyone.
That is so great that he was soengaged and so passionate about
learning all of those things.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And then I want to share onemore thing is that my youngest
son, he started public school inkindergarten and he had always
been lower energy, he was quiet,but he started school and I
mean it continually drained him.
It was such a heavy weight onhim and if you even dared think
(31:55):
about homework you got to bekidding me Like this kid's
drained.
And he got into first grade andI thought it was going to suck
his entire life.
Like I didn't think he wasgoing to be able to play sports
because he didn't have enoughenergy to even come home to eat
dinner.
And this eight hour day, itwasn't okay for him, it just was
not okay.
This affected his learning.
He got behind because he was sotired.
(32:17):
He woke up early, got the busyou know this whole pattern that
many students go through andgoing to Prenda, I think,
literally saved his healthbecause now the shorter day he's
able to use his energy in themorning and he's not a changed
child, but the environmentchanged for him so that he could
be successful.
(32:37):
And when he started Prenda hewas two grades behind for two
years in a row and it was tough.
It was embarrassing a littlebit because we came from that
public school environment.
Tough, it was embarrassing alittle bit because we came from
that public school environmentand to this day, as a middle
schooler now, he completed allup to grade level information,
just because he had that time torejuvenate himself.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Love it, I know.
Thank you so much for sharing.
And so what advice would yougive to educators and or parents
looking to create a moreempowering learning environment?
Or if they're listening andthey go, that is my kid.
They're so drained or they'regetting in trouble constantly,
or what your first story remindsme of my son too.
(33:20):
In second grade they had to do abiography and the biography he
chose was bomb, which is robertabenheimer, the atomic bomb, and
there's language in that bookand and he had an amazing
teacher that year.
But I was like, is this okayfor him to read this?
I said I'll read it with himand but that's why he was
interested and passionate aboutand to this day, I mean, he's in
(33:40):
civil air patrol, he knowsevery make and model of every
single plane and engine and youknow we'll see planes.
We live right next to Luke AirForce Base, so we'll see planes
flying overhead and he'll tellme exactly what they are.
And if he stayed in regularschool he would have been
allowed to do like to dive intoa lot of these things because
they wouldn't be appropriate forhim at his age.
So I love that story so muchand it's just a tuning to the
(34:04):
individual child Cause, like yousaid, you loved school, like I
did too.
Like I, school was my thing.
I really, really thrived and Iabsolutely loved it.
But there's so many kids thatthat's not their thing.
So what advice would you giveto those parents or to teachers?
They maybe have a traditionalclassroom and they're burnt out
and they're looking forsomething different and they
want to be empowered.
(34:24):
So what's, what advice do youhave for those people?
Speaker 3 (34:29):
and they want to be empowered.
So what advice do you have forthose people?
So the advice that I would givesomeone that I'm often giving,
I mean, parents are approachingbecause it's sort of my identity
.
Now in my community, and justthis morning my boys are working
for an older lady who's caringfor her grandparents and or for
her granddaughter, and she's soworried about her child and
she's like you know, I'm goingto do this online and I don't
(34:50):
even know about it, you know,and it is a foreign world to
most of us.
You know, public school is astandard and so the things that
I usually share with them isthat it is scary.
I, for the first two years, Iwas concerned like, am I doing
the right thing?
Like this is out of whack ofwhat everyone around me is
(35:13):
thinking is acceptable, and evenI had pushback from my family
and that was hard, that was hardto hear.
But now, as I have seen my kids, they'll use language like mom,
I have this goal and I want tomake this goal, that I'm going
to make this knife and I'm goingto use these wood pieces and
(35:34):
you're like what?
What?
Eight year olds?
None that I know of.
You know, oh, mom, I finishedmy goal.
I was working in Lexi.
I'm like it's summer, but you'rebad, and so to me, yeah, we
have FOMO.
That's a real human experiencethat we're gonna do something.
That's different, but whenyou're in it, it feels right, it
(35:57):
feels so right.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I love that.
Tara, thank you so much forsharing with us today and for
coming on the Kindle podcast.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
This has been awesome oh, thank you for having me yes
, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
it was wonderful and I loved getting to hear like
your background, because Ididn't know any of those things
about you and I promise this isthe year I'm going to make it up
to five.
All right Thanks guys, that'sit for today.
We hope you enjoyed this lastpart of this amazing series that
we did to really get an insidelook of what a Prenda micro
(36:29):
school looks like.
Every single micro school isdifferent.
What would you say about that,katie?
I know you've been to a lot ofmicro schools.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I think that's the beauty of it.
I mean, there is like a commonmagic, right that it's like this
feeling, this vibe, that islike transferable.
That is part of you, part ofwhat makes Prenda Prenda.
But everyone is doing their ownunique thing and I think that's
how it should be and I thinkthat that's really unique.
I think there's principles thatshould be applied to create
(37:00):
this magic, but there's no wrongway to apply those principles,
and I think Tara is a greatexample of that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Absolutely.
I see it as three components.
You have the dynamics of thekids, the physical space and the
environment and what and theculture I guess in that class,
and then the guide and what theguide brings, I feel like, and
then you have those three thingsthat come together to really
create this Prenda magic.
And I love how she mentionedthe advanced guide skills.
(37:28):
So we do at Prenda offer a lotof extra learning and are
constantly helping the guidesgrow, which I think is really
unique compared to othercompanies that help people start
and run micro schools.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit.
So just a little overview whenyou come into Prenda as a Prenda
guide, there's kind of like abasic training where you learn
how to operate our micro schoollearning system.
And then there's kind of a parttwo of that where we talk about
academic rigor and goals anddata and kind of fine tuning the
(38:03):
academic piece.
And then, once you're in yourat least your second semester of
guiding, you can take somethingcalled the advanced guide
skills course, where I take youthrough the last 30, 40 years of
neuroscience, psychology,educational, learning, science,
um, and talk to you about reallywhat you're doing, so we teach
you how to do it.
And then we teach you whyyou're doing it that way, um, so
you can learn as you go.
(38:24):
And then, after you have a fewyears of guiding experience and
you've continued to like, like,just like Tara she's like always
reading this book she's kind ofcreated a lifestyle, a practice
really, of of becoming a personwho really knows how to
interact with kids in thisempowering, inspiring way, then
we, you can earn your Prendamaster guide certification.
(38:45):
So that's kind of whatprofessional development looks
like at Prenda and it's so funand so cool to see everyone
learning these principles andapplying them, and just the
hundreds and hundreds of kidswho are just you know, you just
see, like like when I host thisadvanced guides class, like
every week, we have like alittle huddle and we just like
hear all of the stories of like,oh, this kid was so disengaged
(39:07):
and now, like I, he flipped,like you know, you can, just,
it's just really cool to see.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, and what I love about Prenda is we literally
are with you every step of theway, so you don't feel like you
have to do it alone, and wereally are about connecting you
with other guides and creatingcommunity.
Or you could do what Tara didand create your own little
community in your neighborhoodand have siblings go to
different guides and then dofield trips together and all the
(39:34):
things.
So it's wonderful.
So if this episode was helpfulto you, please like, subscribe
and follow us on social media atPrenda Learn.
If you have any questions you'dlike us to address, or if
you're really interested inbecoming a guide and you don't
know like, oh, how do I do this?
Email us at podcast atprendacom.
(39:55):
You can also um subscribe toour weekly newsletter.
It's called the Sunday spark.
All you need to do is go toprendacom and fill out your
information.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
The Kindle podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy for you tostart and run an amazing micro
school based on all the ideasand things we talk about here on
the Kindle podcast.
If you want more informationabout becoming a Prenda guide,
just go to Prendacom.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep kindling.
Hi and welcome to the Kindled podcast where we dig
into the art and science behindkindling, the motivation,
curiosity and mental well-beingof the young humans in our lives
.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Together, we'll discover practical tools and
strategies you can use to helpkids unlock their full potential
and become the strongestversion of their future selves.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to the Kindle podcast, everyone.
Today we are wrapping up ourthree-part series on what
empowered learning looks like inthe wild or in a friend of my
girl's school.
Not that they're wild, they'revery organized places.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You guys are very full of well the one today.
She is near wood and she rideshorses, so I would say it
definitely is in the wild.
There you go.
So who are we talking to today?
Today we are talking to TaraLarson, and she is just so fun.
She's the best personality.
I've met her a couple of timesat Prenda cons, which is a
(01:08):
conference that we do for ourPrenda guides.
Her energy just fills the room,so I cannot wait to talk to her
and about how she runs hermaker school.
So let's go talk to Tara.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Tara, welcome to the Kindle podcast.
We're super excited to talk toyou today.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
All right.
So tell everyone a little bitabout your background and just
give us your story.
Who are you?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So my name is Tara Larson and I'm originally from
Queen Creek, arizona.
Down the valley I moved toFlagstaff, arizona, about 25
years ago where I was attendingNorthern Arizona University,
where I got to compete in trackand field and I got my degree in
health sciences with anemphasis in nutrition, and there
(01:53):
I met my husband of 20 years.
We have seven children.
We have three girls and fourboys, and our family loves
sports.
So every season we're doingwhatever sports happening that
season and I'm a career coach soI love coaching.
I do speed training for a lotof teams in our community, I do
(02:14):
our softball team and I dotravel softball teams, all-star
baseball teams, and I lovecoaching basketball.
And our team loves to or myfamily loves to hike and we want
to be fishermen.
We're always hoping to catch afish.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're like a big team.
I like it that you calledyourself a team.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And we have horses, so we train a lot of ponies and
just problem horses.
And then I love being a printguide.
It's my real passion.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That is awesome.
Okay, so can you describe yourmicro school and how it differs
from, like a traditionalclassroom.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, so I'll start kind of from the beginning.
When we started micro school,the families that were with us,
they knew what they didn't want,so they didn't want to wear
masks and they didn't want afull, you know long school week
and they knew they wanted nopopular political or social
trends.
But we didn't really know whatwe could have.
(03:15):
And when we started Prenda itopened this plethora of things
we didn't know that wasavailable to us.
So things like a four-dayschool week, a shorter school
day, assessments as opposed totesting every week or every day,
and then mastery-based learningwas like a really big idea for
(03:36):
us.
And then interest-basedlearning and then collaborative
problem solving and then thegoal-based learning.
So now we've taken the idea ofPrenda and took it farther
beyond we ever knew possible.
So every week the kids get toride horses, we do monthly field
trips, we cook every Thursdayin my home, we do career days
(04:00):
where we invite people from thecommunity to come to our home
and expose the kids to differentcareer paths.
We do service projects everymonth.
We love doing like studentbased activities, spirit days or
plays or recitals, things thatthey love.
So it looks a lot differentthan where we started of things,
(04:20):
like we knew what we didn'twant and now what we love of
things like we knew what wedidn't want and now what we love
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I love that.
I love to see how each Prendamicro school and it's not just
one micro school You've createdkind of like a little cluster of
micro schools out there.
How many micro schools do youhave in Flagstaff now?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Well, it's mainly because I have seven children,
so I just found guides for theirage levels.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
You can have him and you can have her.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So there's six of us that work together doing
different age groups.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That's really cool because I think it's important
to have to give kids this senseof small, like little, like
intimate, connected, but thenit's also fun to have like a
little bit of the big right.
I think a lot of people thatstart micro-schooling there are
parts of having a largercommunity that they miss, and
this is a perfect way to solvethat with micro schooling is
through, like, these clusters ofmicro schools.
(05:13):
We have the same thing in myneighborhood too, where we have,
we have a handful of microschools and then we go do field
trips and you like you knowthere's you're sharing siblings
between these micro schools andit's just like really, really
fun.
I love it.
Okay, what inspired you tobecome a Prenda guide and start
your micro school and talk usthrough like the feelings of
like what that was like for you?
(05:33):
Did you like how did you hearabout Prenda?
And were you like, oh yeah,I've got this?
Or were you nervous to start it?
Like, tell us that story.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and were your kids homeschooled before or were
they in regular school?
Love to hear that part too.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah.
So my inspiration to become aPrenda guide was after COVID,
our community.
We started a homeschool co-op.
So moms and I we would switchoff here's my kid, there's your
kid and we loved working likeright alongside our kiddos,
giving them new material,figuring out things that they
loved, and we had never beenhomeschoolers.
We were the kind that probablymade fun of them.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think I was in that camp too, and now I'm like the
one that makes fun of it, theother side.
No, I'm kidding, I try not todo either.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah.
So pretty early on we learnedthe fallacy, though, in this
method.
We were trying to recreatepublic school and we could see
that even kids that were exactsame age, maybe even levels of
interest, they were on differentlevels.
And then the other thing is wehad workbooks, which was
(06:41):
beautiful for parents andorganized, but it seemed like
something was missing, that theway to teach them is to flip the
page, and I just could never,like, how do we solve this?
And then the other thing that,as a homeschooler, we love the
idea of being with our kids.
We felt like man, why weren't wegiven this permission that we
have everything we need to teachthem or to expose them to new
knowledge?
(07:01):
Like, why weren't we given thispermission that we have
everything we need to teach themor to expose them to new
knowledge?
Like, why weren't we given thatpermission?
But as a homeschooler, you feltlike you were disciplining them
through education, throughtheir chores, because it's turn
the next page, go to the nextthing.
So we needed a practice thathelped empower them, and so,
(07:25):
about a year into it, a friendapproached us and she had joined
Prenda and she's like hey,you're having these problems,
try this game changer.
But it answered mastery-basedlearning for us, interest-based
learning, empowered learning,setting goals, and it was the
answer to what I couldn't figureout learning, setting goals,
and it was the answer to what Icouldn't figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That is awesome, okay , so talk us through what your
physical space looks like,because, as we know, micro
schools can be in homes.
I've been to ones that are in adance studio and a community
center and a OT facility.
So what does your space looklike and how does it work with
the other guides that you workwith as well?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So the way that we've developed the space is, through
time, just based on needs.
So, as a coach, I had everyball net bat.
Whatever they wanted to play, Iwas ready for it.
I had tons of saddles for myhorses and we backed the forest
so we could hike till, you know,days end.
But as far as the internalspace, where the you know, a lot
(08:28):
of the learning happens, thathas been developing over time.
So we had a space in the backthat was like a mother-in-law's
quarters and it had randomchairs in it and we've just over
time, accumulated comfybeanbags and little tables and,
you know round chairs and layoutchairs.
And then we got whiteboardsthat they can do collaborative
(08:51):
problem solving.
We purchased a TV where we canwatch videos together and now we
have, you know, posters thathave Spanish verses on them or
we have like desks where theycan put you know, any of the
projects that they're working on.
So it's an ever changingenvironment.
But, as soon you know, wewanted to make it like public
(09:15):
school and then we learned thehome is the perfect place to
learn.
We don't need to make thisstuff up, it's all here.
We have a kitchen for cookingand the outdoors for exploring.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I love that.
So talk to us a little bitabout how you create culture in
your micro school.
How do you create positive,like a positive supportive
learning atmosphere,relationships, like talk about
that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
So the way that we encouragesupportive and positive
interactions within our studentsis first going by the Prenda
core value, which is start withheart.
And I'll be perfectly honest, Ilove kids but I'm a very
competitive, I'm a coach, so I'mnaturally training kids for
their betterment, you know, andI'm like encouraging your best
(10:02):
kind of environment.
So I've really had to growwithin myself as a guide and as
a like a mom, and I would saythat this is one of Prenda's
biggest ideologies, likemastery-based learning, that's
big empowerment learning.
But connecting with kids,that's our job.
That's literally what we're you, we're here to do as a guide.
(10:25):
So in the day to day it lookslike every morning, because it's
a small class size.
We see the kids eye to eyeevery morning.
We can welcome them, say helloto them, ask them how their game
went or how the guitar practicewent or how Fluffy's doing, and
(10:45):
so we're always trying to meetthem where they are.
What are you doing?
And then we um every day workon the printa based database
that is called camp.
So on mondays we do community,on tuesdays we do autonomy, on
wednesdays is mindset, and thenthursdays we work on purpose and
these we do journal entries, wedo team building games, we have
(11:05):
motivational videos, books, andthe kids choose.
You know what they want tolearn about that day, and to me,
that really creates thiscommunity that we're constantly
talking about it, that we'rehere to support you, and then
finally, we work with them withtheir goals.
Right, we're talking likewhat's your purpose, why are we
doing this, what are you workingon, what are you excited about
(11:26):
and how we incorporate that isthat every day we're trying to
do something that they want todo, that they're working on.
One of our students loves tosing, so we got a karaoke set
and during brain break she sings.
One of our students lovesarchaeology, so we got molds,
and every day they were puttingfossils and rocks in the mold.
(11:47):
You know digging with thethings, and on Thursdays we have
them plan a meal Like what doyou want to eat?
And they plan that.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
What do you want to eat?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That's so awesome.
And then on my side I try to dowhat I call continuing
education.
So I've done continuededucation through Brenda.
And then I constantly listen tothe Kindle podcast myself.
I read the self-driven childlike on repeat.
I have highlights on it andlike books like the Whole Child.
(12:20):
So I'm constantly trying tokeep myself in that mindset.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So I'm constantly trying to keep myself in that
mindset.
That's so important because somuch of what our kids and our
students will take from theireducation isn't just like what
fractions are, it's like who weare.
You know, like we are going torub off on them and like they're
going to become like us.
So making sure that as we asadults are demonstrating,
modeling that like we're alsoempowered learners and that we
(12:44):
can be humble and we can makemistakes and we can apologize
and we can do better, we canrepair relationships and we can
treat kids with a profoundrespect that isn't kind of isn't
commonly found in a traditionalclassroom or just in society.
You know, just because someone'slittle doesn't mean they don't
get to make choices, doesn'tmean their voice doesn't matter,
all of these things that wekind of assume really
(13:06):
accidentally.
I don't think we do itintentionally.
It's just kind of the waythings are.
And until you take thatintentional look and get some
other, I love how you're likeseeking out and other influences
, um, trying to like round thatout.
I I love your commitment tothat.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, I do too, Cause when it's front of mind it's
easier to do.
I just created a reel forInstagram yesterday and I'm
saying all these things and thenI turn off the camera and then
there's explosions happening inmy house and I'm like, okay,
Adrian, you just told otherpeople on the internet that this
is what you're supposed to bedoing, you know.
(13:43):
So it's like connect before youcorrect name it, detain it, and
so if it's not front of mindand if you're not continually
reading about these things andreminding yourself, it's so easy
to just go right back intopatterns.
And you know, these patternsaren't just from our own
childhoods, but they could befrom just generational patterns.
(14:03):
And so I love that you are justkeeping that front of mind and
you're continually learning andgrowing, because it sounds to me
like you are an empoweredlearner as well, which is how
again what Katie said kids learnso much more from us as we
model, versus just telling themwhat to do.
So next question is how do youbalance structure and
(14:27):
flexibility in your micro school?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah.
So how I naturally balance umstructure is that I love lists
and I love right planning and itworks out really well for
organizing a day, but soon,within a year, of being a print,
a guide, I realized that thatwas bogus, not just because kids
kind of resist that, but Ilearned in the self-driven child
(14:53):
.
Which made so much sense to meis that kids will get into what
they call a flow or like we canterm it like, a structured,
focused learning time, and theyenter that very early on.
When they're interested insomething and they're playing
like superheroes or they'remaking a structure with blocks,
they you don't need to tell themto do that, they just do it.
(15:14):
You know.
Well, this happens daily, notevery day with every student,
but it happens with kids andthey're interested in something
and then you're like okay, nowit's time to open your books to
46.
You just messed everything up,so true, we just stopped with
that flow, yeah, so I've reallytaken a step back from that, and
(15:39):
this could even be in theday-to-day where we're in brain
break and they've created a ninesquare game with different
rules and then we come out.
Come out, excuse me, children,we need to go to our science
experience and you're like theywere so into it.
Everybody was involved andeveryone had a part and they
were dicing out the game rulesand so I've learned like you
have to have structure, becauseus adults we think it's cool,
(16:03):
but kids they like thrive on theidea that you see them for like
humans, not for things to beacted upon or, like you know,
put in to, to practice, you knowyeah, so much.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So much of the time, like we think, when you walk
into a classroom, if it's likequiet and everyone's sitting in
their desks and they're likewriting and they're like on task
, we think that the kids, thatthat's a good classroom and that
, like the kids are learning.
But a lot of those kids are justlike doing something they've
already know or they're likespending so much of their energy
trying to hold still thatthey're not really focused on
(16:40):
what they're supposed to belearning.
You know, it's kind of like adog and pony show a little bit
and it's like, well, if youactually let kids be humans and
actually allow them to engagewith things that are interesting
and stimulating to their brains, like this game that you're
describing, it's like man,there's so much good cognitive
work going on in that, in thatflow state, and, yeah, we always
(17:01):
just want to jump in there andbe like well, we need to get
back to this like ideal picture,this invented picture that we
have of what school looks likeor what good looks like or what
excellence, like all of thesethings.
We kind of have theseperceptions of what we should be
doing when really we need to belike going with the flow of
their interests and engagement,and I'd love to hear a little
bit more about how you, likeyou've talked about, like, not
(17:23):
interrupting that flow, but thenwhen you are doing the
academics, what does that looklike?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So we start off each morning we do this introduction,
kind of like these icebreakers.
We have a student leader thatwelcomes everything, but we
found that kids when they get toschool, they actually really
want to learn it.
They want to go at it.
So we've actually flowed withthem what works for them and
that's like their prime time.
(17:47):
It's like time to learn.
So once kids are in the Prendaculture, which I would say is
empowered based learning, wherethey're setting their own goals,
I'm not telling them what to do.
They're going after it and I'mjust like here to cheer you on.
They're going after it and I'mjust like here to cheer you on,
Isn't?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
it funny that we have this perception that if you let
kids choose, they won't doanything.
Or, like you, know that theywill choose to be lazy or
whatever.
Like kids definitely want tolearn and we see this in the
data at Prenda.
You know we have a softwaresystem that tracks everyone's
goals and we can see those goalsholistically.
And on average, kids aresetting a goal of 1.8 years of
(18:26):
growth in math and reading.
And it's like wow, if I, if yousit down and say, hey, what do
you think you could do in thisyear, they choose to do almost
twice what their same agetraditionally schooled peers do.
And it's like if you give thema hopeful path where they feel
like I can win here, theyabsolutely will run so hard and
that you won't have to likecarrot and stick them into it.
(18:48):
Like you're observing, it'slike I just have to get out of
the way.
Have you ever had a?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
student that doesn't do that, though, cause I have
been in a lot of micro schoolsand there's one it's only one,
though, out of probably thehundreds that I've been into
that this, the guide, was justat such a loss with this student
who she's like he just sleeps,he just has.
You know, he's like hisgrandpa's, really wealthy, and
(19:13):
he's just going to inherit hismoney.
He doesn't need to do anything,and she's like I just don't
know what else to do.
How do I motivate this kid?
So have you ever had a singlestudent that wasn't just
motivated, or they're just like?
So maybe it's.
It is the environment that youset up.
I'm wondering.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
None of this is perfect and this is this is
daily, but I I do.
You know this is not just aplug, for you know the class
that Katie taught of theadvanced guide training, but it
was a life changer.
It was right when I needed it.
I had a student that I wantedto diagnose, like I wanted to
(19:50):
tell his mom.
I know what's going on.
That wasn't my role, I didn'tneed to do that, and the things
that I learned from that classmade me actually stay alive and
him stay alive.
So we're alive today.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And he was tough.
He was really tough for me, andnot that he was lazy, but he
had his own idea of what wouldhappen that day, from minute to
minute, from day to day.
And I've had several since him,but I can go in with it with
much more relaxation because Ihave tools under my belt and
Adrian said it right.
So instead of like labelingthem, like this child, it's more
(20:33):
like you get curious hey, howare you doing?
How's that snake Pedro doing?
And then they're like oh hi,you're talking to me, snake
Pedro doing.
And then they're like oh hi,you're talking to me, you know.
And they're they're like excitedand that doesn't what they're
interested in yeah, and it maynot change their goal, may stay
still at, you know, whatever lowit is, but I love them and they
love me and we're movingforward.
(20:53):
So I was gonna say I do have astruggle.
Sometimes in the afternoon Iwill have this struggle.
Sometimes in the afternoon Iwill have this really cool
activity and this might evenmean riding horses, which is my
favorite ever.
And not every student of mineloves horses and so they don't
all ride, and in the beginningthat was tough for me.
Like I am providing you withthe coolest possible thing in
(21:16):
the entire world.
What are you doing?
And I've learned to relax inthat, but I still.
It's hard for me when there'sso many interests, even if that
means times 10, that's not verymany interests, but that's times
10.
And they all want to dodifferent things and it is a
struggle for a guy to separateyour mind.
(21:36):
Like you want to use what in mywhere, with how many?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
like, what are you saying?
So that is something that Icontinue to have to work with.
Yeah, it's totally balancingthat is is always tricky, but I
think, um, if you pull back alittle bit and look at how, like
that just means that they arecurious, interested, engaged and
on fire.
Like that just means that theyare curious, interested, engaged
and on fire, right.
So it's like, okay, yes, it's alot to balance, but that's, we
(22:05):
would so much rather balancethat than disengaged, apathetic
and like fighting you on things.
Right, at least they like arealive inside and like have have
a fire.
Can I share, like, a reallyinteresting thing that I just
learned?
Um, as we're talking aboutlighting fires and Kindle, the
Kindle podcast and Prenda, um, Iwas talking to this guy um,
there's a nonprofit that helps,um, that helps.
(22:27):
They set up little librariesall over the world and they'll
like staff it with librarian andthey do all this cool education
stuff.
And I got connected to themthrough a friend and they're
going to start using treasurehunt reading in these, um, micro
schools.
But this guy was talking to you, he was in Columbia and he was
like what does Prenda mean?
And I kind of gave him thenormal spiel about, like how
Prenda means gift in Portugueseand it sounds like a friend air
(22:48):
in Spanish, just to learnlearning as a gift.
You know our little thing thatwe say, and he's like heo un
fuego like to light a fire, andI'm like what it means to light
a fire and I was like, yeah,that is just like so shocking
that has this third meaning thatwe didn't know about.
But that is what you're doing.
You're creating thisenvironment where kids can be
(23:10):
alive inside, and I just it.
While it does definitely likebends your mind sometimes to be
like, wait, there's too much,this is very chaotic.
Or you know, like we have tobalance this and you do have to
get to a place of like, yes,there's interest and yes,
there's structure, and you canfind this balance.
But just to know that your kidsare like passionate and alive
humans and we're not likebeating the the curiosity and
(23:31):
passion out of them so early,like that's amazing.
I love that.
So we've talked about this alittle bit.
But what are some more ways youencourage meaningful
interactions between students?
Like, how do you build thesefriendships?
How do you or how do you dealwith conflict?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know what is the peer to peer interaction look
like so the way that weencourage meaningful
interactions um to me, is is aday to day effort, Prenda,
though how I think it makes it10 times easier because of a
smaller learning environment andthen different age levels.
(24:03):
I think this would be sowidespread if people understood
this idea of like pecking orders.
It happens in horses, like whenyou're training young horses,
you use an experienced horse tolead the young horse, and even
when you're on a trail ride,there'll be a trail boss horse
that will naturally lead.
There'll be horses that follow.
(24:24):
There'll be horses that aremares.
They're the same and they donot ride next to each other.
Well, that's real.
So I find that that's one ofthe magics is there's different
ages, different sexes, and thesecan really interact more
healthy.
But it goes without fail.
Every day there's littlesquabbles that happen within our
(24:46):
unit, but what we found is thattruly what Prenda is trying to
inspire us as guides is thatwhen you connect with
individuals, with kids, and theyfeel like they've been heard,
they've got to say that excitingthing they've been thinking
about all night and they've beenseen oh, that dress that you
wore or your Crocs that you gotthen they feel safe, and when
(25:09):
they feel safe.
They don't threaten otherpeople.
And that's not that we do itperfect either.
Sometimes we have squabbles,but just through that, you know
kind of training that I've hadis seeing students for
individuals I think has made ahuge difference in my parenting.
I have seven kids.
(25:30):
I have a whole community rightin my house and then through my
Prinda is just connecting withkids before I'm disciplining
them and that's amazing, okay,so how do you tailor their
learning experience to eachstudent's needs and their
interests?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
We talked a little bit about this, but I would like
to get a little more specific.
And how do you encourage yourstudents to take ownership over
their learning?
Because it sounds like they aredoing that.
So is that something you feellike you've done, or what are
some things that help that?
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Um.
So the way that we tailorlearning experiences to each
student is through the goalsetting.
For me, I think it's one of themost pivotal things that I'm
trying to incorporate in theirlearning.
So, first off, with eachmorning, we have the kids use
their autonomy.
Like autonomy is something thatrolls in my mind 50 times a day
is something that rolls in mymind 50 times a day.
(26:27):
So we have a student leader andthey say, okay, I'm gonna
choose Spanish to welcomeeverybody, or I'm gonna choose
ASL to welcome everybody.
And then, in their coresubjects, at the beginning of
the year, we have a meeting withtheir parent and with the
student.
We talk about long-term andshort-term goals, and these
goals because I've worked withsome of the kids a long time and
(26:48):
then, through assessmentsthey've taken, we set these
goals.
Now, these are ever-changing,we're constantly updating them
and figuring out new ways.
But it gives this guideline and, like I talked about, when
you're homeschooling, you'relike I need you to do, do, do,
do.
Well, through this goal-basedlearning, you take that out of
(27:09):
the equation.
Your new vocabulary is hey,what are your goals today?
Hey, what are you working ontoday?
And you're constantly it's onthem and that, to me.
It's exactly the empoweringword.
It gives it back to them.
It's not my problem, I don'teven.
What are you learning about.
So I love that.
(27:31):
And it takes off the control ofthe parents, which we don't need
.
That that's the kids.
They want that.
They want that in their lives,that they can do it on their own
.
They get to decide.
You know what they're doing.
And then, kind of alongside ofwhat I've said, in our weekly
activities we are, you know,asking them what they want to do
(27:54):
.
Where do you want to go thisweek?
What should we plan when we dothis?
How do you guys want to presentthis project?
What do you want to eat thisweek?
We continually are asking themto lead out and I feel like that
really helps their learningexperience, because it's theirs,
they picked it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So how do you feel like this empowering environment
has affected their academicperformance and their personal
growth?
How like tell me some storiesabout either academics or
personal growth that you've seen?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So, um, when I saw this question, I can really take
it to personally, to personal,personal experience.
I've had many kids andbeautiful success stories.
But my son, when he was likefirst to third grade, he was
struggling to read and I lovedschool like I loved every grade.
(28:44):
I loved, I had notebooks, I hadhighlighters, I loved pencils,
notebooks.
And then my kids struggled, I'dread to them every day.
It was life.
We have a library in our house.
What was happening?
I didn't know and I'd go tothese meetings and I'd feel like
a failure, not him, me, and Idon't know how to help this kid.
I am reading with him.
(29:05):
What do you want me to do?
And then COVID happened and welearned he had astigmatism in
his eye.
We later were able to gettherapy for his eye, but that's
when we came into Prinda andbefore school was discouraging.
School was the bad news thatwas going to tell us my kid
(29:26):
wasn't going to be good enoughever.
And he now, in Prinda, like, byhis eighth grade year he was
above grade level in allsubjects and he loves school,
like he's homeschooled, actuallyfor high school and motivated,
just he loves school.
And then my second son he wasin the younger classes and he
(29:47):
would write about grenadesfiring off and rifles in the
battlefield.
And the teacher would be like,so we're really concerned about
the material Giant's writingabout.
And I'd be like, should I beconcerned?
And it felt like school was abad.
Look on him.
You know like you don't fitinto this box that we're trying
(30:09):
to make.
You're supposed to be writingabout the magic tree house and a
dragon.
And so that was discouraging.
He kind of didn't like schoolbecause it didn't like him.
And now as apprentice studenthe's in middle school.
He's made a Bowie knife in hisclass.
He's made a cannon with a pipeand a football.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Please tell that story, not the cannon, it's the
best story, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So one day we're saying, okay, you need to make a
prototype for a project.
So Ryan's making this prototypeon paper and he's using pencils
and rulers and making all thisstuff and he's like, mom, I'm
going to make a cannon.
I'm like, oh, yeah, sure.
Well, over the course of theweeks he'd be like, mom, can I
go to the dump?
Let's get a pipe.
I'm like for what?
Oh, I got it.
(30:53):
Well, this keeps happening.
And one day we're inside makingthe kids lunch and we hear this
loud explosion like a bomb wentoff and a football is flying a
hundred yards into the forest.
And he had made a cannonwithout us even paying attention
to him.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
That's amazing.
That's like that's like a MarkRober story, like it's just like
oh, now he's Mark Rober and heunderstands the physics of that
and the chemistry of that andhopefully no one got hurt and it
was just a football, not a realcannon.
No one needs to call anyone.
That is so great that he was soengaged and so passionate about
learning all of those things.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And then I want to share onemore thing is that my youngest
son, he started public school inkindergarten and he had always
been lower energy, he was quiet,but he started school and I
mean it continually drained him.
It was such a heavy weight onhim and if you even dared think
(31:55):
about homework you got to bekidding me Like this kid's
drained.
And he got into first grade andI thought it was going to suck
his entire life.
Like I didn't think he wasgoing to be able to play sports
because he didn't have enoughenergy to even come home to eat
dinner.
And this eight hour day, itwasn't okay for him, it just was
not okay.
This affected his learning.
He got behind because he was sotired.
(32:17):
He woke up early, got the busyou know this whole pattern that
many students go through andgoing to Prenda, I think,
literally saved his healthbecause now the shorter day he's
able to use his energy in themorning and he's not a changed
child, but the environmentchanged for him so that he could
be successful.
(32:37):
And when he started Prenda hewas two grades behind for two
years in a row and it was tough.
It was embarrassing a littlebit because we came from that
public school environment.
Tough, it was embarrassing alittle bit because we came from
that public school environmentand to this day, as a middle
schooler now, he completed allup to grade level information,
just because he had that time torejuvenate himself.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Love it, I know.
Thank you so much for sharing.
And so what advice would yougive to educators and or parents
looking to create a moreempowering learning environment?
Or if they're listening andthey go, that is my kid.
They're so drained or they'regetting in trouble constantly,
or what your first story remindsme of my son too.
(33:20):
In second grade they had to do abiography and the biography he
chose was bomb, which is robertabenheimer, the atomic bomb, and
there's language in that bookand and he had an amazing
teacher that year.
But I was like, is this okayfor him to read this?
I said I'll read it with himand but that's why he was
interested and passionate aboutand to this day, I mean, he's in
(33:40):
civil air patrol, he knowsevery make and model of every
single plane and engine and youknow we'll see planes.
We live right next to Luke AirForce Base, so we'll see planes
flying overhead and he'll tellme exactly what they are.
And if he stayed in regularschool he would have been
allowed to do like to dive intoa lot of these things because
they wouldn't be appropriate forhim at his age.
So I love that story so muchand it's just a tuning to the
(34:04):
individual child Cause, like yousaid, you loved school, like I
did too.
Like I, school was my thing.
I really, really thrived and Iabsolutely loved it.
But there's so many kids thatthat's not their thing.
So what advice would you giveto those parents or to teachers?
They maybe have a traditionalclassroom and they're burnt out
and they're looking forsomething different and they
want to be empowered.
(34:24):
So what's, what advice do youhave for those people?
Speaker 3 (34:29):
and they want to be empowered.
So what advice do you have forthose people?
So the advice that I would givesomeone that I'm often giving,
I mean, parents are approachingbecause it's sort of my identity
.
Now in my community, and justthis morning my boys are working
for an older lady who's caringfor her grandparents and or for
her granddaughter, and she's soworried about her child and
she's like you know, I'm goingto do this online and I don't
(34:50):
even know about it, you know,and it is a foreign world to
most of us.
You know, public school is astandard and so the things that
I usually share with them isthat it is scary.
I, for the first two years, Iwas concerned like, am I doing
the right thing?
Like this is out of whack ofwhat everyone around me is
(35:13):
thinking is acceptable, and evenI had pushback from my family
and that was hard, that was hardto hear.
But now, as I have seen my kids, they'll use language like mom,
I have this goal and I want tomake this goal, that I'm going
to make this knife and I'm goingto use these wood pieces and
(35:34):
you're like what?
What?
Eight year olds?
None that I know of.
You know, oh, mom, I finishedmy goal.
I was working in Lexi.
I'm like it's summer, but you'rebad, and so to me, yeah, we
have FOMO.
That's a real human experiencethat we're gonna do something.
That's different, but whenyou're in it, it feels right, it
(35:57):
feels so right.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I love that.
Tara, thank you so much forsharing with us today and for
coming on the Kindle podcast.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
This has been awesome oh, thank you for having me yes
, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
it was wonderful and I loved getting to hear like
your background, because Ididn't know any of those things
about you and I promise this isthe year I'm going to make it up
to five.
All right Thanks guys, that'sit for today.
We hope you enjoyed this lastpart of this amazing series that
we did to really get an insidelook of what a Prenda micro
(36:29):
school looks like.
Every single micro school isdifferent.
What would you say about that,katie?
I know you've been to a lot ofmicro schools.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I think that's the beauty of it.
I mean, there is like a commonmagic, right that it's like this
feeling, this vibe, that islike transferable.
That is part of you, part ofwhat makes Prenda Prenda.
But everyone is doing their ownunique thing and I think that's
how it should be and I thinkthat that's really unique.
I think there's principles thatshould be applied to create
(37:00):
this magic, but there's no wrongway to apply those principles,
and I think Tara is a greatexample of that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Absolutely.
I see it as three components.
You have the dynamics of thekids, the physical space and the
environment and what and theculture I guess in that class,
and then the guide and what theguide brings, I feel like, and
then you have those three thingsthat come together to really
create this Prenda magic.
And I love how she mentionedthe advanced guide skills.
(37:28):
So we do at Prenda offer a lotof extra learning and are
constantly helping the guidesgrow, which I think is really
unique compared to othercompanies that help people start
and run micro schools.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit.
So just a little overview whenyou come into Prenda as a Prenda
guide, there's kind of like abasic training where you learn
how to operate our micro schoollearning system.
And then there's kind of a parttwo of that where we talk about
academic rigor and goals anddata and kind of fine tuning the
(38:03):
academic piece.
And then, once you're in yourat least your second semester of
guiding, you can take somethingcalled the advanced guide
skills course, where I take youthrough the last 30, 40 years of
neuroscience, psychology,educational, learning, science,
um, and talk to you about reallywhat you're doing, so we teach
you how to do it.
And then we teach you whyyou're doing it that way, um, so
you can learn as you go.
(38:24):
And then, after you have a fewyears of guiding experience and
you've continued to like, like,just like Tara she's like always
reading this book she's kind ofcreated a lifestyle, a practice
really, of of becoming a personwho really knows how to
interact with kids in thisempowering, inspiring way, then
we, you can earn your Prendamaster guide certification.
(38:45):
So that's kind of whatprofessional development looks
like at Prenda and it's so funand so cool to see everyone
learning these principles andapplying them, and just the
hundreds and hundreds of kidswho are just you know, you just
see, like like when I host thisadvanced guides class, like
every week, we have like alittle huddle and we just like
hear all of the stories of like,oh, this kid was so disengaged
(39:07):
and now, like I, he flipped,like you know, you can, just,
it's just really cool to see.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, and what I love about Prenda is we literally
are with you every step of theway, so you don't feel like you
have to do it alone, and wereally are about connecting you
with other guides and creatingcommunity.
Or you could do what Tara didand create your own little
community in your neighborhoodand have siblings go to
different guides and then dofield trips together and all the
(39:34):
things.
So it's wonderful.
So if this episode was helpfulto you, please like, subscribe
and follow us on social media atPrenda Learn.
If you have any questions you'dlike us to address, or if
you're really interested inbecoming a guide and you don't
know like, oh, how do I do this?
Email us at podcast atprendacom.
(39:55):
You can also um subscribe toour weekly newsletter.
It's called the Sunday spark.
All you need to do is go toprendacom and fill out your
information.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
The Kindle podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy for you tostart and run an amazing micro
school based on all the ideasand things we talk about here on
the Kindle podcast.
If you want more informationabout becoming a Prenda guide,
just go to Prendacom.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep kindling.
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