Season 1 Top 10 | #2 Understanding Executive Function. A Conversation with Seth Perler.

We're continuing summer break with #2 of our Top 10 Season 1 episodes.

Can a child's self-esteem and academic performance be profoundly impacted by the labels they receive? This is one of the many crucial questions we explore in our re-release of a cherished episode with Seth Perler, a passionate advocate for children with ADHD and executive function challenges. Kaity and Adriane dive into the significant effects of inhibited dopamine function on children's behavior and development. They discuss learning differences, emphasizing the importance of advocating for each child's unique strengths and addressing the systemic roadblocks that can hinder their progress.

You'll leave this episode with actionable strategies to assist children grappling with executive function hurdles. Whether establishing a curated study environment or breaking down organizational skills into color-coded victories, we look beyond the typical toolbox, encouraging positive reinforcement and the delicate art of advocacy without hovering. 

In this episode, we share our journeys from struggling students to empowered educators and advocates for kids with executive function challenges. Hear how negative labels shaped our self-esteem and academic performance, and how a chance job working with children kindled our passion for teaching. We also critique the disconnect between educational administrators and the real-world challenges faced by teachers and students, underscoring the need to nurture each child's strengths and interests to help them thrive.

We also provide practical strategies for managing executive function challenges, such as using planners and organizing personal spaces, and we delve into the relationship between executive function and sensory issues, particularly in twice-exceptional (2E) children. 

This episode is packed with actionable insights and heartfelt stories, making it a must-listen for anyone looking to make a difference in a child's life.

ABOUT THE GUEST:
Seth wears many hats in the Executive Function, Neurodiversity, ADHD, 2e, and Education worlds: activist, coach, speaker, educator, vlogger, and guy who cares about seeing outside-the-box kids succeed. Seth also runs TEFOS, The Executive Function Online Summit.

At the heart of it, Seth helps struggling learners navigate a baffling system so they can launch a successful fut

Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!

About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.

Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.

Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to [e-mail]. Let's dive into the conversation together!

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This is our second favorite ofseason one.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, I hope you guys have all been enjoying these
re-releases this summer and thatyour summer is going so
wonderfully well.
We're gearing up.
Next week will be our lastre-release and then it'll be
time to start school andeverything will start going
again.
We're excited for season two,but this week we are
re-releasing episode 31understanding executive function

(00:33):
, with Seth Perler.
Adrienne, what were yourfavorite moments or ideas from
this podcast?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Honestly, getting to meet Seth, because it's kind of
like what Bill sticks through.
I've been a huge fan.
I've been following Seth andhis work and he has transformed
the way I interact with my childwith ADHD.
So just recently I read a bookcalled the Boy Crisis.
I would love to have the authoron for season two and he has a

(01:03):
whole section I've been tellingeveryone about this a whole
section on ADHD and he calls itinhibited dopamine function and
so, reflecting on what I read inthat book, to what we talked
about with Seth, I'm like, oh mygosh.
And then he really dives intothe causes of it.
I'm like there's almost no wayto live in America and not have
a child with some kind ofinhibited dopamine function,

(01:27):
because there's just so manydifferent causes for it.
You know we're not going todive into all of that because,
however, I just reallyappreciate it.
I appreciate Seth's heart.
I really do.
You can tell that man cares, hecares about humans and so, yes,

(01:47):
he has a great YouTube channeland he has, you know, his
executive function lab has beenup and running.
We had talked to him aboutreleasing that.
So he had some learning overcomfort and dare greatly there,
and so it's just really cool tosee the work he does in the
world, and it's because he caresso much.
What about you?
What were some key moments thatyou really liked about this

(02:11):
episode with Seth?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I just love how real Seth is and how he explains
things in a very practical way.
You never feel like I don'tknow what you're talking about.
He's just very real and candidand you can tell that he spends
a lot of time with middleschoolers and high schoolers.
And he's just very real andcandid and you can tell he
spends a lot of time with middleschoolers and high schoolers
and he's just really, really funand interesting.
So I really enjoyed this and Ihope you guys all enjoy this
re-release of episode 31,understanding Executive Function

(02:34):
with Seth Perler.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
We have a metric called F, which means fail, and
that means that the kid failed.
Is that story true?
No, that is not true.
We have that the kid failed.
Is that story true?
No, that is not true.
We have failed the kid.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Hi and welcome to the Kindled podcast where we dig
into the art and science behindkindling, the motivation,
curiosity and mental well-beingof the young humans in our lives
.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Together, we'll discover practical tools and
strategies you can use to helpkids unlock their full potential
and become the strongestversion of their future selves.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Welcome to the Kindle podcast.
Hi, adrienne, how's it goingtoday?
It's going well.
How are you today?
I am doing great Nothing toreport here at the Broadbent
House.
How about you?
What's going on with you guys?

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I feel like we're just kind of in a good rhythm.
I really like steady rhythms.
It's great.
But I was thinking about todaywe're going to be talking about
executive function and planningskills and organizational skills
.
And you know, some of my kidsare really organized and then
others not so much, and so Iknow I'm probably going to be
taking some notes today.

(03:52):
But my one, he's my youngest,and so he wanted to go on Canva,
which, if you don't know, canvais an online design program,
right?
Yeah, it's a design program,yep, and we use it at Prenda.
And so he wanted to go on Canva.
So he made this flyer for allof his friends and he took it to

(04:12):
school.
He's really excited.
And then he's making somethingelse he learned how to print.
He didn't need my help.
I'm on a different computer.
I go over to the printer and Ilook at it and it is an
invitation for his birthdayparty.
I didn't know anything aboutthis.
At a local indoor like skatepark.

(04:32):
He had the time on there hisbirthday.
Uh, two days after his birthdayhe must've looked at a calendar
.
I was like, wow, this takes alot of planning and organization
.
Now we just have to call theplace to see if it's available
and how much it is and do theactual planning.
But I love that he justassumptively closed the fact

(04:55):
that he's going to have hisbirthday party at this indoor
skate park.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Way to take the bull by the horns there.
That's great.
I love that, and it does remindme of our guest Today.
We're going to talk to SethPerler and I'm going to tell you
a little bit about him.
Right now.
Seth wears a lot of hats in theexecutive function,
neurodiversity, adhd, 2e andeducation worlds Activist, coach
, speaker, educator, vlogger andguy who cares about seeing

(05:20):
outside the box kids succeed.
Seth also runs TEFOS, theexecutive function online summit
.
At the heart of it, seth helpsstruggling learners navigate a
baffling system so they canlaunch a successful future.
And it all has to do withexecutive function.
His weekly vlog atsethperlercom gives Gabe
changing answers in a sea ofmisguided educational fluff.

(05:41):
So let's get to ourconversation with Seth Perler.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Welcome, seth Perler.
We are so excited to talk toyou today.
I have been following you forquite some time and literally so
many things that you say andthat you have taught parents,
you've taught me and it hasreally changed my life.
So thank you for being heretoday.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Thanks, adrienne, for saying that, and thank you,
adrienne and Katie, for doingwhat you do.
I want to really acknowledgejust how much goes on behind the
scenes for everybody listening,and thank you for all the heart
and time and effort and energyand love you put into what you
do.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Thank you.
So let's just jump right intoit and tell us about your
background, how you came to thework that you're doing in
education, and what is your bigwhy.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I'll start with my why.
My why is related to mybackground, is that I was that
kid.
I was this kid who struggled.
My mom just sent me a bunch ofphotos and things recently and
report cards and all that stuffand just seeing this from really
from first grade onkindergarten was fine.
But first grade, first grade Istart getting comments like does

(06:49):
not pay attention, needs towork harder, needs to try harder
, isn't putting forth effort,doesn't know how to focus,
easily distracted, all thesesorts of things, these executive
function things.
But the message you know reallythat I took away from it was
I'm lazy, I'm a failure, I can'tdo anything right and that sort
of thing.
And that's again starts andstarted for me in first grade

(07:11):
and by the time I was in middleschool is pretty just doing the
bare minimum.
And then by high school I wasreally doing the very bare
minimum unless, as you two canprobably guess, I had a teacher
that I loved and content that Iloved or a project that I loved.
But if it wasn't high interestor there was no relationship

(07:32):
with the teacher, I almostfailed out of high school, went
to college because I thought Iwas supposed to failed out of
college, went to another college, almost failed out but then
dropped out because I figuredout that you could drop out
before failing out, and thentried to figure out what the
heck was going on with life andI eventually started working
with kids completely by accident, just got a job.

(07:56):
I did not care what job I had,I just got a job from the
newspaper, started working withkids, fell in love with it.
Six months later I was drivingin Indianapolis one day on a
road called Spring Mill Road,around this bend I had long,
long hair at the time thislittle stick shift.
I'm driving and I'm smiling earto ear and I'm like you know
what?
I'm going to serve kids for therest of my life and I didn't

(08:18):
know that you could do otherthings than teach.
But I was like I'm going tobecome a teacher and I went back
to school, did not fail out,went to Indiana University and
ended up being asked to speak atmy graduation, which is crazy
that going from that person whofelt like such a failure is
asked by the school of educationto speak to represent my class.

(08:39):
It just was a real honor for me, but it really was, because I
was doing something I loved andI started figuring out executive
function stuff and I reallycame from the heart and I think
all these students that learn tocome from the heart and where
we guide them as adults in theirlives to attune with what's in

(09:00):
their heart and their strengthsand their interests and their
talents and what matters to them.
But anyhow, I became a teacherand taught for 12 years and, as
a lot of teachers do, you know,at least in the United States
became very disillusioned and Iwant to make very clear that I
love teachers and appreciateteachers and we need you

(09:21):
teachers.
We need you.
But for me I felt like I wasbeing limited in terms of doing
my life's work, that I couldn'tdo my best work there, that I
that the job got in the way ofthe job.
So I really really really likecomplicated, struggling kids,
like that is my jam, like that'swhat makes me happy and I like

(09:43):
helping them figure out thatthey're just crazy awesome and
that they've got it.
So I left teaching and starteddoing what I'm doing now and I
wear a lot of different hats nowin the executive function world
, primarily in ADHD,neurodiversity and 2E and all of

(10:03):
these sort of big interests Ihave, but really all under the
umbrella of these awesome kidswho have executive function
challenges and struggles, whoare neurodivergent, very
interesting outside the boxthinkers, and that they're
struggling and they need tolearn executive function skills

(10:25):
so that they can really dowhatever they want to with their
life.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, I don't think a lot of humans have said that
sentence before.
You might be the first personto say that sentence.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
And I love what drove you was.
You said everything comes fromthe heart, and in your work I
can feel that you can tellthere's such a passion there,
and isn't that incredible.
Once that we're able to tapinto what matters to us and that
purpose, then that's when themotivation comes to do Cause.

(10:55):
If you said you like you wentto school and you dropped out
and then you left and you knowit's like, then all of a sudden
you found what ignited thispassion within you to work with
kids, which is pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I'm very, very fortunate that I fell into it,
because I feel like I was bornfor this and this is I'm living
on purpose.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
That's incredible.
So I have two follow-ups thatcame to mind.
One I kind of want to poke out,like what was the core of your
disillusionment with teaching?
Like you said, the job wasgetting in the way of the job.
Like, tell me more about that.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
And then my second follow-up that we can get to
after that is, what was theeffect of being labeled as a
child For me?
What was at the core of the job?
Getting in the way of the job?
There are a few things.
One thing and I want to saythis delicately, but then again
I don't I don't mean to likecall out administrators, but the
pattern of administrators beingdisconnected from reality and

(11:50):
human beings was astounding tome, and the turnover in
administrations.
And then an administrator comesinto a school and then the
whole school culture changes andthen it's.
I had that experience and thatwas something that was that I
looked up to these people and Isaw them as leaders, as very
competent people, as confidentin all these things, and and I

(12:13):
and you start off a school yearand you really feel like so
supported and all this stuff.
And then for me I felt likethere was so many hoops to jump
through to show that you'replaying the game for data
purposes, and some teachers arereally good at shutting the door
and to their classroom.

(12:34):
This is a if you're a parentand you haven't heard the saying
.
But there there's a saying.
You know, just shut your doorand do what the kids need to do.
I don't know if that's thesaying, but there's a sentiment
right, just shut your classroomdoor and do what you need to do
to do.
I don't know if that's thesaying, but there's a sentiment.
Right, just shut your classroomdoor and do what you need to do
.
And some teachers are very goodat doing that, separating out.
You know.
Okay, this is what is expected.
This is what things have tolook like on paper.
This is how to prep for tests.

(12:54):
They can kind of balance thatand still and I am not good at
playing the game like that theway things are set up we need
people who can play that game.
We need people who can playthat.
Kids need people who can playthat game.
I was not good at it.
I'm the type of person wherethat stuff keeps me up at night.
So I think that the pressuresfrom the districts or the

(13:19):
administration or the board orwhat have you to do whatever
they perceive as valuable, thatthey measure.
There's a saying that noteverything that's measured
matters and not everything thatmatters is measurable.
But those pressures drove menuts.
I wanted to serve.
I am there to help kids.

(13:40):
I have 24 hours in the day, 16waking hours, way too many of
them spent with school stuffanyway as far as somebody's
mental health and how much theyget paid and stuff like that.
And then there's all theseother who it just was.
It was absolutely exhaustingand I have a lot of energy even
to this day, but back then Imean I just I could go and burn

(14:01):
the candle at both ends and justwork nights, work weekends.
It took me years before I cameto a point where I'm like I got
to take one day every weekendoff, like I need to have a day
where I do not work.
I don't know if people know howmuch teachers work, but they
work through their lunches, theywork through their work periods
, they get there early, theystay late, they take stuff home

(14:24):
and they work on weekends.
Not every teacher, but I wouldsay probably the majority of
teachers.
So I just really was like II've got work to do here and so
I don't know, katie, if thatanswers your question, but I
think a lot of the hoops to jumpthrough, I would say we're sort
of at the root of Roots to jumpthrough in terms of measuring

(14:49):
things that didn't necessarilymatter, how much energy was put
into things that didn't mattermuch and how much things that
mattered were not attended tobecause of the the school
culture systems paradigms wehave.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I just find that so ironic because I don't think all
of those people are sitting ina room thinking how can we make
the teacher's job harder, howcan we get in the way of
learning Right, like they're allthinking how can we serve kids
better too, but, like what yousaid, like they're disconnected,
and I think that maybe that'sthe root of it is just like the
people in the room serving thekids aren't the people in the
room making the decisions.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
And I would love to hear from administrators on this
.
Every time I make a video orask things, but I never get
feedback from them.
But I have a theory that thepeople who are hired to be
administrators and whatever thepeople who hire them are looking
for, that they're hiring peoplewho are inherently data people.
The district is hoping they'llmake things look good.

(15:49):
I mean, obviously the idea isthat the data means that certain
results are happening, butclearly, in terms of practical
everyday life, we can all seethat we are really missing the
mark.
We're really shortchanging kids.
I mean again, thank goodnessfor the teachers because they

(16:10):
were lifesavers and they somehoware able to help kids
emotionally, socially,academically in so many ways
that people don't notice andthey're just lifesavers.
So thank goodness for thembecause, despite all and 50% of
teachers leave by year fivethat's a disgusting statistic.

(16:33):
You think about that.
That's that shows you how, whatwe prioritize, we clearly do
not value education.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, that makes me think.
A minute ago, you said we needpeople who can play the game,
but if only 50 percent of people, five years in, can maintain
the game, it's the game thatneeds to change.
We're doing the same thing toteachers that we're doing to
kids.
Right, you can't jump throughthese hoops.
You're failing, it's your fault, not like, oh, this system must
be.
Let's take a look at what we'reasking or what we're requiring
of you, right?

(17:02):
We're just kind of passing thebuck.
Is it the kid's fault?
Is it teacher's fault?
Like I hear parents get blameda lot.
Like it really takes the wholecommunity to come together and
solve this problem.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yep, parents get blamed, teachers get blamed,
schools get blamed, whatever,and then, in a way, kids get
blamed and I'll tell you howthat looks.
So I don't know if you guyshave heard me talk about the
grades.
First of all, I think lettergrades are archaic, outdated.
First of all, I think lettergrades are archaic, outdated.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
We do too.
Katie could talk all about whatwe had to do because we did not
want to do grades at Prenda.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
We have a metric called F, which means fail, and
that means that the kid failed.
Is that the story?
Is that story true?
No, that is not true.
We have failed the kid.
But that's the story in termsof the whole paradigm we have
when we're not using mostvaluable metrics and really

(18:12):
consciously and intentionallyconsidering the purposes of
assessment and how it impactssomebody and helps them and
serves them.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
But we are, all the while doing this grades thing,
also talking about growthmindset and trying to help
encourage kids to fail, and it'slike, well, we've put them in a
system that punishes them fordoing the thing that the poster
on the wall says that they'resupposed to do, so that creates
a low trust environment thatmakes them really like hesitant
to participate.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, you had another question.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
The effect of being labeled as a child.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So being labeled as a child,you know it's funny, because for
me I was not labeled.
I didn't know I had ADHD untilI'd been teaching for years.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oh wow, Interesting.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
But what about the labels of not being able to
focus and distracted and lazy?
And those labels?

Speaker 3 (19:00):
What I want to say about that is that those labels
were either directly stated orimplied, but my nervous system
and my narrative in my mind madefor me two big words lazy
failure.
I'm a lazy failure.
Now there are other things thatmy brain said.
I can't do anything right.
This is stupid.
Why do I have to do this?

(19:20):
When am I ever going to usethis, all those sorts of things?
But my primary narrative thathelped me not take risks and,
katie, you mentioned the wordsafe when I felt unsafe the
primary narrative that I usedwas a lazy failure.
I'm just a lazy failure, that'sjust the way.
It is Not a growth mindset, I'mjust a lazy failure.
So the labels, even if they wereimplied and I'm going to say

(19:43):
this too for all you listenersthe implications that I'm a lazy
failure or that I'm just amotivated or I just need to try
hard enough, or whatever theimplications when they weren't
stated could even have beenthrough body language, meaning a
teacher's snide, contemptuousbreath.
You know, having worked withkids over 20 years, like kids

(20:07):
pick up on very subtle thingsand they pick up on it very
intensely.
I think we forget is that howintense life feels as a kid.
So a kid feels shamed by ateacher just from very, very
body language that maybe nobodyelse in the classroom would have
even picked up on.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
When I have guides come to me and they're like I'm
frustrated with this kid, he'snot doing this, like I want him
to do X, y or Z, and like whatshould I do?
What should I say, and I'm like, no, no, no, no.
How do you feel about him?
Because you have to get yourheart right towards that kid.
You have to decide to like thatkid.
You have to decide to see abright future for him and
believe that he is next Like,once you see the child deeply
and profoundly and positively,what to do will just your.

(20:53):
Your intuition about what to doand how to treat that human
will just flow from you, you.
You will not need a script fromme, um, but it's really hard to
to pare that down and to getlike.
It's like a heart work.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
It's hard to deprogram ourselves from an
unlearn.
What is so?
And I even think about, likeyou know, when I talk about the
work that I do and I really likethat you guys talk about the
nervous system and like thatyou're, you're going back to
that person saying how do youfeel?
Because and I'll do that withparents Like I'll be, like I
just noticed your shoulders didthis, or voice did this.

(21:28):
I want them to notice what'sgoing on internally for them, so
that they can hear thenarrative that they grew up with
and how it is in their mind, sothat they can question it and
then change it and then responddifferently to these kids.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
And sometimes we have to take a step even further
before what we're believingabout the kid, what are we
believing about ourselves?
Because so many of us believethat their behavior means
something about us, you know,based on generational patterns
and all those things.
So I think it's reallyimportant to understand and to
be in tune with how we feel inour bodies and then we can start

(22:06):
really thinking about okay,what are our beliefs about these
kids?
So, okay, can we dive intoexecutive function for our
listeners who may not befamiliar.
Honestly, before I heard youtalk about executive function,
seth, a couple of years ago, Ihad never heard of it, I was not
familiar with it whatsoever,and I had a child who diagnosed

(22:27):
ADHD, gifted another child OCD,anxiety, pda, and I learned.
A child who diagnosed ADHDgifted another child OCD anxiety
, pda, and I learned about PDAalso from that same podcast.
And so some people may belistening and they've never
heard the term executivefunction, or maybe they have,
but they're not quite sure whatit means.
Can you please like, tell uswhat it is and then also what
its significance is in thecontext of learning?

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, most people listening probably haven't heard
of it.
Most parents and teachers havenever heard of it and when I was
teaching, I never heard of ituntil the end of my teaching
career.
And when I when I heard aboutit and I was like what, what,
what is this?
And then I started learningabout it, I was like, oh my gosh
, this is the thing that tiesall those complicated,
struggling kiddos.
That's my jam, this is thething that they all have in

(23:13):
common.
This is an umbrella term for methat encompasses all of these
kids, complicated kids that arestruggling.
So executive function means andit doesn't matter if there's a
diagnosis or not like if they'restruggling, it has to do with
executive function almost allthe time.
There may be exceptions, butgenerally speaking, that.

(23:34):
So what it means is it's howthe front part of the brain, the
prefrontal cortex, the frontallobe if you put your hand on
your forehead, it's that area, athird of the brain behind your
forehead that part of the brainhelps us to executive, execute
executive function.
How the brain functions to helpus execute tasks.
What kind of tasks?
Homework, cleaning your room,organizing the books behind you.

(23:56):
Adrienne or Katie, you bothhave different organizing ways
of doing that, to get a driver'slicense, to do a job
application, a collegeapplication, to play video games
, anything that, any task thatthe brain has to do.
Now let's look at a task likeplaying video games.
You might think, well, how isthat executive function?
Well, that is a preferredactivity for most kids, so it's

(24:16):
going to look like you know.
Oh well, that matters.
Yeah, it does matter to them,and but they have used executive
function with their video gamesto very efficiently be quote,
productive to get to their videogames.
So what do they have to do toplay the video game, believe it
or not?
They have to plan, they have tovisualize themselves, they have
to have self-talk in theirbrain.

(24:37):
Okay, I want to go play videogames after school.
I and they, they mightvisualize.
So I got to connect withso-and-so via text to get them
on the game with me and, um, Ineed to make sure that this
thing is charged and likethey'll have all of these.
When you really think aboutwhat's going on, very
complicated things are going on.
They have the gaming chair andthey have the, the different

(25:00):
software.
They have the accounts linkedup.
They have their password.
If they need to find theirpassword for a video game.
Do you think they're going tohave any trouble finding that
they need to find their passwordfor their school portal and
they can't find it?
Well, so they do have executivefunction, but it's used so it's
.
It's how the brain does anythingto help us execute some complex
tasks.

(25:20):
Now we can execute, like I said, things like homework or
getting a job like these are.
Getting a job is a very complextask because it requires doing
applications, gettingapplications, getting the
details on applications, gettingit in on time, doing the
interview, being on time,getting dressed for it all the
it involves.
Things involve a lot more thanwe typically think about, so the

(25:41):
brain helps us do anythingrelated to that.
Now I talk about 13 executivefunctions.
I won't mention them all, butI'll just throw out a few that
pop into my mind.
But in different expertsconceptualize it differently.
I use the 13 or so becausethose are the ones that are very
relatable to parents andteachers and my audience in lay
person's terms.

(26:02):
So things like planning,organizing, time management,
prioritizing, impulsivity,inhibition which is the opposite
of impulsivity focus, unfocusedattention, inattentive,
organized, disorganized,motivated, unmotivated, like the
brain helps us with any ofthose sorts of things.
A lot of them are two sides ofthe same coin.

(26:23):
For example, you might say youknow, they, they, they are
procrastinating.
And and then you might, on theother hand, you might say, oh
well, they aren't using taskinitiation.
So you might use a moretechnical, clinical term like
task initiation.
It doesn't matter, we'respeaking the same language.
My kid just won't get started.
Well, that's procrastination orthat's not task initiation.

(26:44):
But what's the skill?
The skill the kid needs tolearn is how do I initiate a
task?
How do I get started?
How do I self-start?
How do I get the train going,whatever it's, I don't care to
split hairs on that, but how doI get, how do I get moving on
this important thing that is notpreferred.
So to me, what are the skillsto help us get started is what I

(27:05):
would be teaching.
And, katie, you asked aboutlabels.
My brain just popped it back in.
The quick answer is that thereare positives to labels and
there are negatives to labels.
There is value in labels if weuse them correctly and
intentionally.
If somebody says I have ADHD,that does not tell the whole

(27:25):
picture, but it can give a placeto start from.
It can help out a lot.
It can help out a lot.
It can help us know thatthere's not something wrong with
me, there's an actual, my brainis developing differently, et
cetera.
But labels can be very negative.
As we dove into Now, for all ofyou listening, there was my ADD
brain grabbing a concept goingback, but I think I stayed on

(27:46):
task for your question prettywell.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yes, you did.
And then I was wonderingbecause you had said that when
you have a kid, that'schallenging in school, usually
linked to executive function.
Also, what I see is sensorychallenges.
Is there any connection between?
This is just something I'mreally curious about.
I never thought about it untilI was listening to you talk
about challenges and how it'slinked to executive function.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yes, I don't talk about that link a lot, but I do
talk about sensory issues a lot,but they're absolutely related.
So let's take the extremelytwo-week kid, a kid who's twice
exceptional, who is gifted,legitimately gifted and talented
in certain areas and really hasdifferent needs because of that
.
Okay, so this is not an elitistthing and that people can

(28:36):
misunderstand that.
And they also have learningdisabilities and I'll talk about
the.
As far as labels are concerned,let's look at the label
disability.
That can be used negatively orpositively, so we're looking at
a disability meaning.
This is not a stigmatizing,negative thing.
This is a fact.
If something is disabling youin life, it's interfering with
your quality of life.

(28:56):
We need to be honest about thatand not worry about okay, this
word sounds negative, which itdoes, but we need to be able to
have a dialogue about what'sgoing on to help this human
being.
So, if we're looking at a 2Ekid, a very, let's say, gifted,
with really severe learningchallenges, these kiddos gifted

(29:18):
kids tend to.
One of the characteristics ofgifted kids is that they can be
highly sensitive, so they can behighly sensitive as far as
their senses are concerned.
Also, they can be highlysensitive as far as their
emotions or their emotionalregulation or how deeply they
feel things.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Nervous system sensitivity.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, now, as far as the senses are concerned, if
you're trying to execute, solet's say, sethi, here me.
I'm sitting here and I'm in myoffice space where I do my work
and we're talking, and I have awindow over here and I hear
something out there and I'm like, oh, what's that?
And I'm trying to use myexecutive function to do this,

(29:55):
to prioritize this being withyou, but I get distracted.
Okay, well, I do heareverything, I see everything.
Everything visually is oh,squirrel, squirrel, squirrel.
You know sensory things.
You can think of a millionthings on your own, but they can
interfere with executivefunction or they can support it
as well.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
But so my question is neurotypical kids, executive
function development do the samestrategies that you use for
neuro atypical kids help withtypical development?
Do do typically wired kids alsostruggle with this.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yes and no, okay.
So the way that I look at it isthat neurotypical kids tend to
pick up on the cues thatteachers or parents or life is
giving them in terms of how toexecute more intuitively, more
naturally.
But I want to explain it thisway Imagine a kid with pretty

(30:52):
decent executive function, right, and they're in kindergarten
and it's cleanup time and theteacher teaches them in the
first couple of weeks of school.
These are where the toys go,these are where the crayons go,
and this kid is able to attend,pay attention, focus,
concentrate any word you want touse to that teacher.
When the teacher is teachingabout those things, they notice

(31:13):
where the crayons go and theteacher repeats it a few times
throughout the weeks.
But the kid with the executivefunction challenges they didn't
pick up on the nuances of that,it didn't really sink in over
and over their brain said okay,I heard enough of this.
There are more interestingthings than hearing about this a
fourth time, whereas that kiddois going oh, okay, I, I, oh,
that's how you do it, oh, andthey, they notice more and more

(31:34):
about it.
But imagine that for yearsfirst grade, second grade, third
grade, fourth grade, fifthgrade they've been developing
these micro skills.
Your teacher says in fourthgrade hey, write this in your
planner.
The kids take out theirplanners, they write it in it.
The kid with executive functionchallenges is like where is my
planner?

Speaker 1 (31:51):
It looks like someone ate it in my backpack.
That is my son.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, and then if they're shamed and they're like
where's your planner from ateacher and and they feel I mean
, then next time they're justanyhow.
So, um, they're building thesemicro skills massively over time
, whereas by the time theseproblems really show up, which
is usually middle school afterin America, at least most

(32:17):
schools in America, most placesin America fifth grade, which is
about 11 or 12, that's when thehandholding stops.
Sixth grade usually is whenmiddle school starts.
So if you're from othercountries, that's kind of how it
works here.
But around that age the quotehandholding stops in sixth grade
very abruptly.
And then we see kids who aredoing just fine, all A's and B's
, and all of a sudden they're insixth grade and they get their

(32:39):
first report card and there'sfive F's and parents are like
what the heck is going on here.
Well, over years they haven'tbuilt up these really intricate
skill sets that they need inorder to succeed.
So these kids, to answer yourquestion, they, I believe, have
it's the same things.

(32:59):
So the way that I talk about it, I'm like I don't want you or
your child to learn Seth's wayof doing things.
I will teach you Seth's way ofdoing things, but that's not
what it's about.
It's about what I call Frankenstudy uh, based off of
Frankenstein, but it's piecingthings together for you.
It's personalizing it, taylor,tailoring it, customizing it,

(33:19):
differentiation, however youwant to look at it.
But if you're going to use aplanner, I don't care what
planner you use.
I don't care if it's digital oranalog, I don't, I don't really
care.
I do know what works for most ofmy kids.
For example, using a monthly istypically better than a weekly.
Um, for my students, forvarious reasons that I won't get
into, but they, I don't carewhat they use.

(33:40):
What they need is they need tounderstand the principles of
planning.
So if you had a kid who waskindergarten for second, third,
fourth, they're like gettingthese micro principles.
They can grab a planner inninth grade, eighth grade, sixth
grade, all kinds of plannersand may use them effectively,
because they know the principles, they know how to prioritize,

(34:02):
they know how to estimaterealistically how long something
might take, they know how topick which order they are going
to do things, they know wherethey put their homework, and so
on and so forth.
I would argue that it's thesame, but those kids have picked
it up over time.
And then what happens in sixth,seventh, eighth grade or
whatever is that?

(34:22):
People look at this kid andthey say, well, they just won't
use their planner, they're justnot trying, they just don't care
, they just refuse to use it.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
They're just being stubborn, they're just being
belligerent, they're just allthese labels that we talked
about at the very beginning andnot noticing that for years,
micro skills haven't built up?

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Why?
Why is this?
I want to ask that question.
Because we don't teach itdirectly, so there's something
called direct instruction in theteacher world Directly.

(35:00):
So there's something calleddirect instruction in the
teacher world, so sometimes youhave to directly teach something
.
This is how you do this.
Well, these kids pick up on itvery easily.
The kids with strong executivefunction, but the't have good
systems.
Maybe nobody's ever reallytaught them.
These are kids.
Occasionally I'll get a coupleof these kids.
These are kids I work with fora very short period of time,
because I teach them a fewthings, figure out what's going
on, and they take it and runwith it, because they have a

(35:21):
somewhat decent foundation, butnobody's sort of broken it down
for them, and then we can breakit down and they're like oh,
okay, cool, and then they'regood.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yes, I love how you give very practical tools and
you talk about.
You love working with thesekids that are they're truly
suffering in some of theseenvironments and then you get
them and you have these toolsthat you can offer them and you
work with the parents.
So could you walk through someof strategies and techniques
that you find particularlyeffective in helping learners

(35:52):
improve their executive functionskills?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah, but I do want to reiterate what you just said
with the word suffering, Like Iwant to really mention that the
suffering is real.
So for anybody listening whohas grown up with the paradigm
of they just need to try harder,work harder, pull themselves up
by the bootstraps, motivatethemselves, all these sorts of
things that thatmisunderstanding can be really
harmful.
And this is not to shame youlistening.

(36:15):
This is to say, hey, I want tooffer a different perception of
this and say that they need tobe treated with compassion and
empathy and gentleness and theyneed to be treated as someone
who has skills to learn.
The suffering is very real,very serious, very deep and can
be very lasting.

(36:36):
So it's.
I just want people tounderstand that it's.
It's just so, not a joke, it'sso real.
This is somebody who's qualityof life and mental health.
Having said that, how do I helpfamilies and kids in practical
ways?
Is that what you said, Adrienne?

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, what are some practical strategies and tools
that you give to kids andparents?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
I look at it in terms of the first thing we need is a
foundation of some of thebasics and I have several basics
that I go over and then we needto implement the foundation,
meaning put into practice thethings that we've been learning.
And then we get to amaintenance stage where and this
is kind of like when I saidsome kids I can work with for a
short time, help them out andthey've got it and they run with

(37:20):
it, meaning they reallyunderstand planning and they're
planning all the time.
It's not perfect, but they'vegot it.
I don't ever have to have thatconversation with them again.
They know enough to be inmaintenance and sort of
improving it.
As they go through complexityin life, through if they go to

(37:43):
college or graduate school orhave a job or career or whatever
, they are able to increase thecomplexity.
So I look at it in terms offirst we give them foundation,
then we practice that's theimplementation and then we
maintain.
So foundations, implementationmaintain is how I look at it.
They work with me infoundations and implementation

(38:04):
maintain they don't need me oranybody with this stuff anymore.
That's how I look at it.
So now in the foundations andthis is where I'll tell you some
of the practical.
So I wanted to set up thestructure so people listening
could understand that, and thenI'll go through just.
Let's just look in terms of wewill look at, let's say, an
eighth grader who has executivefunction challenges and they

(38:30):
need to in practical purposes.
They need a foundation for howto use a planner, an agenda,
calendar, whatever you want tocall it.
They need to know how to plan,manage time, structure time in a
way that is one word reliable.
They need a reliable method ofplanning.
So then I would give practicalideas for how can we reliably do

(38:54):
that, what are the parts ofplanning, etc.
Then we have things likeorganization.
Well, when you're in eighthgrade, what do you need to
organize?
Well, you got your bedroom,your clothes, you got your
backpack, your folders, yourlocker, your desk.
So there are things that peopleneed to organize.
Well, I'm going to really dealwith the desk this is what I
call a sacred study space thebackpack, the folders, and so,

(39:18):
as far as practical is concerned, maybe an example there is with
an eighth grader.
I am not a fan of binders, for90 or 95% of my kids, in fact.
I just had this conversationyesterday with one of the kids.
They had a binder.
Literally, this looks like itwon't surprise Adrienne.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
I love binders, but my son I was going to show you
really quick we tried to do oneof these for him because I was
thinking okay, it's not a binder, maybe this will work.
And this didn't work either.
So I am taking notes becauseI'm like okay, how can I help
him organize?

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Accordions are better than binders for these kids.
I have a video called BindersThink, but binders are this kid.
Yesterday, I swear, had about500 pages in the binder.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Oh my gosh.
And they were actually inside,though, like in the.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
They were not in the right place.
And they were actually inside,though, Like in the.
They were not in the rightplace.
Now, the mom who was supportinghim with this had put a lot of
them in the right place andstuff, but it was not.
And when I use the wordreliable for the planner, I
would say reliable with this too.
Can the kid reliably find whatthey need to find when they need
to find it?
No, no, no.
And even if they could, it'stoo tedious for this kid.
They don't want to open it to aspecial place, unclick it, take

(40:31):
it out, reclick it, put it backin, especially if they're a
middle schooler with a teeny,tiny desk.
So, anyhow, that's somethingthat I talk about Now.
A highly organized person wholoves binders, and there's no
shame in that.
You should use them if theywork for you.
You should use them if theywork for you, For these kids,
though, in.
The mistake that we make isthat, hey, I'm really organized,

(40:53):
this works, this works, it's soeasy.
This is how you use a binder,Therefore, it should work for
you.
Well, that's a great thought,but when it comes into practical

(41:14):
and taking in the nuances ofwhat's going on, that's not
happening because the skill setneeded to manage a binder is
very high.
The skill set needed to managea few color coded folders with
the minimum amount of papers inthem at any given time is way
easier to begin learning thefoundational skill set of how to
manage papers, how to get ridof the ones that you don't need,
how to know where the ones thatneed to be turned in are, like
they, the.

(41:34):
You're going to scaffold likeyou would with anything you know
.
If I was teaching you guitar,uh, uh, an instrument, a sport,
anything you're going to takesomeone from where they're at
and move them forward.
But here we don't reallyunderstand that they haven't
built up skills for so manymicro skills for so many years

(41:55):
that the binder is way toocomplex for them to use it
effectively.
Now I've had kids who will putstuff in the binder to get
everybody off their back.
But that is not using iteffectively.
And if people are really ontheir back about it, they'll
make it look prettier, but it'sstill not effectively doing what
it's supposed to do and youhave to dig to figure out if

(42:16):
that's happening.
But kids are smart, I meanthey're going to figure out if.
If this is stressful and you'rereally pressuring them to do
this, they'll make it look goodenough to get you off their back
.
But is have they effectivelylearned the skill to use that
for what it's meant to be used?
No, not usually with these kits.
So I start them.

(42:38):
So there's an example.
You know a little bit withplanning, a little bit with
organization and there's a lotmore.
I mean, that's what all mywork's about, but that's at
least a start of.
You know, we got.
We got our foundations,implementation and maintenance,
and then within the foundations,you got planners and lockers
and binders and desks and thedifferent main things that they
need to know.
Fortunately there's a finitenumber of things and once we get

(43:01):
that, the, the the hockey stickgraph is very important here.
The hockey stick graph, ifyou're not familiar with that,
is the chart that's used in allsorts of domains in life where
something starts off very low,very little growth, can't tell
and then at some point it startsto hook, you know, and then you

(43:21):
, and then it really getsmomentum and it can really take
off.
So that's what happens here isthese kids.
It seems like nothing'shappening, but maybe about four
to six weeks in, parents startgoing hey, my kid just did this
on their own.
My kid just had this success.
They, they put their, theyfinished it, they put their name
on it, they put it back in thebackpack.

(43:42):
They got to school, they tookit out of their backpack and got
it to the teacher on their own,Like they'll have whatever
little wins.
But those things you know startadding up and then and then so
you start seeing changes.
Really, in my experience, aboutfour to six weeks, but it can
take months to years for them toget to that maintenance phase

(44:03):
where parents are like, okay, mykids got it.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, and it's really important that we stay positive
.
Something I got from you also,seth, was three positives to
every one negative, or you caneven do more positives to
however many negatives, but thatwas something I adopted from
you because I didn't realize hownegative I was even being,
because I'm very organized, Ilove binders and my child.
I was thinking, oh well, thisworks.
Exactly what you said.

(44:27):
I had those same exact thoughts.
I was treating him that way andnot realizing I was doing it in
a very negative way, and so Ithink it's really important that
we talk to our kids in positiveways and really focus on their
strengths as they are learning,so that we can help aid that
growth and then helping them getit and celebrate with them.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, everybody wants to be seen, every human being.
We want to feel seen, want tofeel heard, understood, known,
supported.
Like you've got my back and weare trying to help them, but
we're like, hey, I cleaned up myroom.
Look at this, yeah, but why arethe socks still there?
Hey, I got an 89.
Why didn't you get a 90?
And we're trying to supportthem.

(45:08):
But we have to really imaginewhat does that feel like for
this human being?
So the three to one rule isjust you know how?
How do we give three positivesto everyone?
Perceived negative.
Perceived negative because wehave to.
And of course, I'm not sayingthat there's not a time and a
place to have those discussionsabout quote negative things or

(45:28):
things that that's veryimportant, it's how we do it.
But but they would need to beseen for their strengths and
noticed and it reflected back tothem and their interests and
their talents and and the thingsthat matter to them and their
effort.
A lot of these kids say nobodynotices how hard I try or when I

(45:52):
try.
Have you heard that one?

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Definitely.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah.
So they feel like nobody isessentially nobody's seeing me,
hearing me, understanding me.
Nobody notices how hard I try.
So, with a three to one rule, Ireally like to focus on
noticing their effort.
Oh, my gosh, I just noticed youtried blah, blah, blah.
Or you worked really hard onthis, or, you know, they may
have put their name on theirpaper and somebody, and they

(46:16):
never did that, and somebodymight be like, well, I'm not
going to give them credit forsomething they should have been
doing all the time.
That is a horrible frame, thatis a.
I don't know where we learnedthat, and I'm sure I learned
that in my life too.
I don't have that in my lifeanymore, but I just.
It drives me nuts that I haveto explain that to adults
sometimes.
Um, why it's a horrible frame?
But, uh, you know, people grewup with that sort of a frame, so

(46:40):
they keep repeating it withoutquestioning it their own
narrative, and we need toquestion this stuff.
But, um, to notice the effort,wow, you put your name on your
paper.
You never did make a big dealout of it.
You never did that before.
You did that on your own.
You're awesome, that's so,that's so cool and those things
go so far, so far you know, youcan just see them smile.

(47:02):
You can see them like, feel seen.
You can see it If you are anadult who chooses to be aware of
their body language and what'sgoing on with them, you can see
it.
If you're someone who doesn'tpay attention to that and hasn't
practiced that, you're notgoing to notice it.
We adults need to work ourbutts off to learn this stuff
and practice ourselves.

(47:22):
And you guys talked earlier.
Sorry for interrupting.
At the beginning you weretalking about, like us, noticing
our own nervous systems, ourown feelings, our own body
language, our own vocal tones,our own words.
We are very all humans.
We're very unconscious aboutmost of what we do, so it's very
hard work.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, definitely.
I think because of thehierarchical nature of like the
adult and child, adults havecome to think that my role as
the adult is to give feedback.
Where we like, we just leannegative because we're looking
at the child and their, theirprogress or their performance
through the lens of like how canI improve this?

(48:00):
Always Like, how can I get themto be better instead of how can
I appreciate what's going well?
Um, and when we focus onpositivity, like, you get more
of what you focus on, right?
So when you just turn up thevolume on what's going well, I
just don't think we fully grasp,like, the power of that of

(48:23):
telling kids what's going well.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah, it's all a practice and sometimes I do hear
a lot of parents, or sometimesteachers, that really beat
themselves up and they're likeI've been doing it wrong or blah
, blah, blah.
That's not the point of my workor anybody's work.
Those may be real feelings thatyou can acknowledge and process
, but don't cling to that.

(48:46):
You know you grew up in a worldthat conveyed those messages to
you, okay, and now that you'reconscious of it, you get to make
different choices.
So it's, but it is a practiceand it's a.
We are biased towards thenegative and we're biased
towards and it has biologicalpurposes to help us survive.

(49:07):
There's a reason for it and usdoing that and telling them,
finding what's wrong or whatthey need to improve upon, and
all that.
It comes from a place of love.
So I have no doubt that it's,almost, unless there's somebody
who's, you know, narcissisticand a narcissistic adult or
something like that.
This is coming from a place oflove and trying to be helpful

(49:32):
and what we think should behelpful.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
So I think a good gut check here for us is like are
you more or less likely to beimpacted by the influence of
someone that you like or andthat likes you or that you don't
like and doesn't like you?
Right, we kind of put upemotional walls around feedback
from people who don't like us orwho are very negative from us.
But if we get feedback fromsomeone who we respect and

(49:56):
usually their place of safetyand warmth for us, then it's
like oh, they think I shouldmaybe try this accordion thing
instead of this binder thing.
Like I'm now open to thatperson's influence, but if
you're just like a constant, youcould have done better machine
to in a child's life, likethey're going to close their
hearts and minds off to yourinfluence and in order to for

(50:16):
you to be influential andimpactful in their life, we we
need to like go heal that andand to introduce you and like
your.
Your relationship with thatchild needs to be healed on like
a nervous system level whereyou are no longer triggering
that child's nervous system tobe in fight or flight against

(50:37):
you or in whatever message youmight have.
But it's, I mean that takes alot of work.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
And to be an advocate .
And so, seth this is anotherphrase I got from you is be the
squeaky wheel.
We are running out of time, butI wanted to talk really quick
about that, cause I tell parentsthis all the time be the
squeaky wheel, be that advocatefor that child, because maybe
they don't have someone in theirlife to stand up for them and
to help.

(51:04):
Like cause I think about too,like just the how much potential
kids have and the way we treatthem kind of what Katie was
talking about can really impactthat potential.
So can you tell us what be thesqueaky wheel means?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
It means to advocate for your kid and there's a lot
of nuance to this, but I'm goingto start with the term
helicopter parent.
So we were talking about labelsbefore and helicopter parent is
a term that rubs me the wrongway, but it again is a label
that has usefulness in the rightcontext.
So the original intention of ahelicopter parent was that this

(51:44):
is somebody who's over parentingor rescuing or doing too much
for them or enabling whateverterm, and that is not healthy.
So when we're doing that, we'renot allowing our kids to have
experiences they need to have togrow when we're rescuing them
in a negative way.
And then there's ways where yourescue your kid and you've got
to do that, you've got to knowwhen it's the right time to do

(52:07):
that and you're not doing toomuch for them.
But the term helicopter parentcan be used as a shaming term
and that's not useful.
And when a parent advocates fortheir child and they get the
cold shoulder from the school ora dismissive reply or something

(52:27):
like that or they're straightout told they're a helicopter
parent, which I don't thinkhappens often, but I think the
implication is is that sort ofthe undertone can be yeah,
you're a helicopter parent backoff.
We know what we're doing.
And parents there's differentparenting styles and parenting
personalities, obviously, but alot of parents and typically
statistically it's the moms whoare having the communication in

(52:49):
the, in these sorts ofinteractions, and they're
hearing, hearing whatever theresponse is and they back off
and they don't, and then theydon't listen to their gut and
and and they don't want conflictand they're not trying to put
them down.
They also don't want theteacher to take it out on their
kid.
That's another thing I hear alot.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I was that parent, for sure.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah, so it's really hard to be the squeaky wheel,
but when I'm coaching parents,I'm like be the squeaky wheel.
Now I will give nuanced answersto parents about how to be the
squeaky wheel or what to writeor what to say and things that
work and don't work, and becauseI've done this a thousand times

(53:38):
and there there are ways to dothat.
But like uh, one quick exampleis uh, you do not want to write
a four page monoparagraph emailto a teacher who's got 30 kids,
or if they're a middle or highschool teacher, has a hundred or
more kids, or if their middleor high school teacher has 100
or more kids.
Like, so that's like you knowthere's a way.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
There's ways to be squeaky?

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Yes, because the objective of being the squeaky
wheel is to get a result.
You know and you got to thinkthrough.
I need to say four pages worthof details and stuff.
They need to know it.
Well, it's not going to getread.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Listening to you like came at such a pivotal time,
Like my son.
Just, the school just was notattuning to his needs, and what
I noticed in learning about thenervous system is he was no
longer able to even look at usin the eyes.
And this very vibrant kid, just, all of a sudden, the lights
just dimmed and I kept going tothe school but then I felt like,
okay, well, they're telling methat they know what they're
doing, and but I'm seeing thiskid who is so vibrant, full of
life, no longer full of life.

(54:37):
There's something going on here.
It's because he wasn't allowedto move his body, Literally was
not allowed to move his body.
This type of school forces kidsto fold their hands on their
desk and their feet have to beflat on the floor and they have
chants and things that they saybecause they're very traditional
.
And I didn't know.
I mean, that works for somekids but it does not work for a
2E kid with ADHD.

(54:58):
And so that's actually how wefound Prenda was.
I, a friend, you know, told meabout this learning environment
where he could be upside down ona couch and running around, and
you know, and it was amazing tosee that light come back on.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
Yeah, and I do want to say, and that that's
gaslighting too.
And that's what happens is whenthe parent feels like, oh, I
shouldn't say anything, you know, and it's not that you have a
bunch of evil teachers or staffor something, but subtle things
can come across and it'sgaslighting.
It's saying, hey, you're crazy,you don't know what you're
talking about.
And then you can feel like, amI crazy?

(55:32):
Like okay, I.
But my, my encouragement.
I do want to just wrap that upto say to those of you you know
your kid best, you actually doknow your kid best.
Listen to your gut.
Now can you get emotional andsay too much, yes, watch out for
that.
Okay, yeah, but if your gutknows, I just want to encourage

(55:53):
you trust your gut, you knowyour kid.
You may not know how toarticulate it or say everything
in teacher speak or educationspeak, and all this, I don't
care.
Write that email, go into thatschool, have that conference,
have that meeting, whatever, andjust do your best, uh, to speak
your heart, speak your truth,uh, and whatever, and just do
your best to speak your heart,speak your truth and always
assume positive intent, alwaysassume that they are on your

(56:16):
side and, yes, there areteachers that shouldn't be in
the classroom.
That is not the norm.
I shouldn't say it's not thenorm, it's minimal.
But these kids definitelyattract those or those teachers.
These are the kids that thoseteachers have it in for.
Does that make sense?
But most teachers, you knowwe're all on the same team.
Most teachers really know thatand they want to do better.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Thank you so much for coming on our last question.
We ask this to all our guests.
Who is someone who's kindledyour love of learning, curiosity
, your motivation or yourpassion?

Speaker 3 (56:49):
who is someone who's kindled your love of learning,
curiosity, your motivation oryour passion.
Yeah, I thought about this fora lot and I mean there's so many
, so many that have reallyinspired me.
I'm going to mention one that'sI don't know if it's unusual,
anyhow his name was George Betts.
He was my professor.
He's written a lot of books inthe field of gifted education.
I was very fortunate to studyunder him.
He passed away a couple ofyears ago but he was somebody

(57:11):
who really inspired me andtaught me a lot of little things
and taught me a lot aboutclosing my mouth and letting the
kids do the talking and thediscovering and the responding
and the problem solving, andthat I don't have to answer
everything for them or tell themhave to do like I want them to

(57:32):
have buy-in and ownership oftheir own experience, and I
think he's been someone who'sreally inspired that.
He wrote a book with some peoplecalled the autonomous learner
model and this was.
He was um in the first giftedhigh school in the United States
or in Colorado or Vado West, Ithink it was and like they
started gift.

(57:52):
I don't even feel like thatprogram may have closed
semi-recently, but either way,he was like this person in the
gifted community and giftededucated.
Best practice for gifted isbest practice for everybody.
Best practice for special ed,they say, is best practice for
everybody.
It just means differentiationand individualizing,
personalizing, customizing.
It means seeing an individualand supporting that individual

(58:14):
for their needs.
But he would be the person thatI would say has really inspired
me.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
I love that.
Seth, are you looking to open amicro school in Hawaii?
No, I'm kidding.
You would be such an incrediblelearning guide.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I wish I had the bandwidth.
I miss teaching so much.
I still teach and work with myfamilies, but I love the
classroom.
I love it and I miss it.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
How can listeners learn more about your work and
can you tell them about yourexecutive function starter guide
and all the goodies that youhave for everything executive
function and for kids that arehaving?
You know, experiencingchallenging challenges,
especially in the school systems?

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Yeah, you can go to SethPerlercom S-E-T-H-P, as in
Paul E-R-L-E-Rcom easiest waySethPerlercom
ExecutiveFunctionSummitcom.
I run a summit every year witha bunch of incredible,
incredible experts and myYouTube channel.
You can look up Seth in ADHD.
Maybe I'll pop up.

(59:22):
You can look up Seth inpodcasts.
I've been on a million podcasts.
I love doing this and I amdepending on when you're
listening to this.
This is the first time I'mannouncing this.
So YouTube I I've been workingon a membership for years and
I'll be launching that January1st.
Oh my God, now I said it outloud.
That's scary.
I love when I'm scared inbusiness.
Actually.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
It's just really obvious like your whole intent
and like life force is put intohelping people and that just
comes across really clear.
So thank you, Thanks.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Thank you, seth, for coming.
That's it for today.
We hope you enjoyed thisepisode of the Kindled podcast.
If this episode was helpful toyou, please like, subscribe and
follow us on social at Prendalearn.
If you have any questions you'dlike for us to address on the
podcast, all you have to do isemail us at podcast at Prendacom
.
You can also join our Facebookgroup, the Kindled Collective,

(01:00:12):
and subscribe to our weeklynewsletter, the Sunday Spark.
The.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy for you tostart and run an amazing micro
school based on all the thingsthat we talk about here on the
Kindled Podcast.
If you want more informationabout guiding a Prenda micro
school, just go torendacom.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep kindling.