Season 1 Top 10 | #4 Nurturing Resilience. A Conversation with Lael Stone. - KindlED

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, so this is our spot number four, but for me,
this is my number one favoriteepisode.
It has left such an impact andimprint which we talk about
imprints during the episode, andso this is a re-release that
we're doing with Lael Stone andit's called Nurturing Resilience
.
A conversation with Lael Stone.

(00:20):
Were you familiar with her?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
work before we interviewed her.
No, and I'm like shocked that Ihad not run into it before,
because she does so much amazingstuff and her work is so
aligned to everything we'redoing on Kindled and Apprentice,
so I was really surprised Ihadn't heard of her before.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, I mean it could be because she lives in
Australia, not in America.
But I found her just on a Tedtalk and it was about emotional
intelligence and was like, yes,and she just has this very
gentle spirit about her and shedoesn't have very non-shaming,

(00:56):
non-blaming.
Hey, like wouldn't you wantsomeone to treat you this way,
kind of way.
And she the story that shetells about her daughter
breaking her arm.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
It has been so impactful for me, yes, and I've
like many times since thisepisode, like had kids get hurt
and like I've told them thatsame thing, like I just want you
to like listen to your body anddo whatever your body wants to
do right now, like cry or shakeor like whatever that is and
I've almost entirely I won't sayentirely, because I know I
still struggle with this, butI'm really close to not saying

(01:32):
like stop crying anymore, whichis a big step for me, because
crying is very triggering for me.
But I'm getting better and lotsof it is because of this
episode and just learning abouthow the body like stores stress
and trauma.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
So super, super helpful shaking like
uncontrollably, the way that shedescribed.
We did have to call 911.
He was flown to a children'shospital because we were in the

(02:10):
middle of nowhere and like threehours away from any trauma
hospital.
And so this I'm telling youlike this episode and the
conversation with her impactedthat moment so that I could
really show up for him.
And they weren't going to letme on the helicopter, katie, but
the reason why they did, theycame back for me because I was
so calm and I was able to reallytend to my own nervous system,

(02:33):
because it was really windy andthey did not think it was like
the safest to have me on, and sothey were like, if you can
remain extremely calm, and I wasable to just be there and
co-regulate with my son, and itwould have been a totally
different experience if Icouldn't be on that helicopter
with him.
So I'm very, very thankful forLael and the work she does and

(02:56):
the books that she has, and shejust continues to do some really
amazing work in this world.
Okay, let's listen.
This is episode 17,.
Nurturing Resilience aconversation with Lael Stone.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Hi and welcome to the Kindle podcast where we dig
into the art and science behindkindling the motivation,
curiosity and mental wellbeingof the young humans in our lives
.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Together, we'll discover practical tools and
strategies you can use to helpkids unlock their full potential
and become the strongestversion of their future selves.
Katie, how's it going today?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I'm good, how are you ?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I am good Tired today , but good, it's been a long day
.
I would love to know who are wetalking to today?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited to tell you about
Lael Stone.
She's like totally new on myradar, like I've just started
digging into her work, and it'slike blowing my mind, so I'm
super excited.
I will now read her bio Soundgood.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Sounds great.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
All right.
Lael Stone is the co-author ofRaising Resilient and
Compassionate Children.
Lael is an educator, tedxspeaker, consultant and
counselor who has been workingwith families for over 20 years.
She's the co-creator ofWoodline Primary School, an
innovative new school based onemotional well-being and
connection.
Lael is the co-host of theAware Parenting Podcast and a

(04:26):
sought after public speaker whotalks candidly about her
experiences and her greatpassion creating wellness in
families through connection andcommunication.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
We cannot wait to welcome Lael to the show.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Lael, welcome to the Kindle Podcast.
Thanks for being here.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Welcome to the Kindle podcast.
Thanks for being here.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Yes, welcome.
We would love to start out byjust telling us a little bit
about who you are like, what'syour background and how did you
come to the work you arecurrently doing?
We would love to know like whatis your big?
Why?

Speaker 3 (04:58):
It's such a great question to start with.
So I have been working withfamilies for nearly 20 years.
I started 20 years ago workingin birth, so I was a childbirth
educator and a doula and foundmyself working, or being drawn
to working, with families thathad had really challenging birth
experiences and trauma.
So I would work a lot in thatkind of postnatal trauma space

(05:19):
with mums and babies and dadsand families, all that kind of
stuff.
So I did that for a very longtime and then my work kind of
slowly shifted into working morewith families, so moving,
working with toddlers.
I worked with the AwareParenting Model, which is Dr
Aletha Salter's work, for quitea long time, which was really
about, you know, the beautifulelements of attachment,
parenting, but also taking it tothat next step of helping

(05:42):
children unpack trauma andstress and how we support our
children so that they're notcarrying that in their bodies.
You know, so we don't all endup being adults who need therapy
.
And so I worked with that for areally uh, for a really long
time, you know, teachingworkshops all over Australia and
working one-on-one with people.
About six years ago I had theopportunity to build my own

(06:02):
school.
It's called Woodline Primary.
It's here in Victoria inAustralia and it was a school.
It is a school based all aroundemotional intelligence,
trauma-informed practices,choice and autonomy all the
beautiful stuff that I think weknow is so vital in helping
children to thrive and also tolearn well.
So I created my own school.

(06:26):
We opened three years ago, sowe're three years in now.
I also spent about five yearsteaching sex education to
teenagers, so I worked insecondary schools teaching
pleasure based sex education,which was really all about
relationships, consent, how wenavigate being human, our
connection to ourselves, ourbodies all that kind of stuff.
So that was an amazingexperience to work with teens
for a really, really long time,and I've had my own podcast, the

(06:47):
we're Parenting podcast, whichI've just finished up, so that
we've had that for a few years,which has had a beautiful
success.
I wrote my first book with myco-host, marion, called Raising
Resilient, compassionateChildren, which we launched just
last year, and these days mywork involves a lot of public
speaking, so I travel all aroundAustralia talking about
emotional awareness.

(07:07):
I talk a lot to educators aroundhow we can have trauma-informed
classrooms and compassionateclassrooms, and I'm writing my
second book at the moment, whichis really exciting and probably
my biggest job of all of thatis I'm a mama to three beautiful
humans.
So I have a 23-year-old son, a19-year-old daughter and a
15-year-old daughter, and I'm amama to three beautiful humans.
So I have a 23 year old son, a19 year old daughter and a 15
year old daughter, and I'm justin this next gorgeous, delicious

(07:29):
phase of what it is havingadult children, which is so
beautiful.
And just currently, for thislast month, all three of them
have been living at home, butone's about to go travel for
seven months and one just cameback, and so for this kind of
beautiful little magic period,all my children are at home and
then they're all about to go flyagain, that's me.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
I love it.
Thanks for telling us yourstory.
I just love hearing all aboutthe interesting paths that
people take into this work, andI love that it's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I probably didn't even really explain what my why
was within all that, but I oftenhave a bit of a catchphrase
which says I work for the kids,which I kind of mean that so
much of my work over all theyears is about helping adults
understand children better andhelping them understand the
inner child within.
So so much of the work I do isaround helping adults understand

(08:18):
their own stories and imprints,tune into what their pain is,
and if we are projecting thatonto our children and really it
is about creating safe,beautiful spaces for children to
thrive, whether that's in thefamily or in the education
system.
I really look at it that if, ifwe could really hear what
children had to say, then, thenthen I feel this is what they

(08:40):
might be saying and that'sreally what I feel like I'm that
bridge between, or try to bethat bridge between, for
children to adults to help themunderstand better.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, I noticed a lot of the people that I listened
to in the education scene likeit's a lot of adults talking
about adult things and not a lotof people talking about kids,
and I love just bringing it backand just grounding everything
that we do in what's best forkids and how we can be advocates
for them.
Because if you look at theworld we've built, like we

(09:08):
haven't left a whole lot of roomfor their voices and for them
to like help co-create the worldthat they live in.
We talk a lot about like themental health crisis in the
youth population right now andit's just like they're trying to
tell us that it's not workingfor them and we're just kind of
sadly keep talking about adultthings and yeah, and I think

(09:30):
it's.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's such an interesting point, isn't it?
Because I think so many of usas adults have our own trauma
that is unhealed or it's noteven recognized, and so we keep
coming from that space.
We don't come from the embodied, empowered adult.
I often joke that most adultsare just like five-year-olds in
adult bodies, and the way thatthey respond to each other is

(09:51):
coming from that wounded childspace, and so I think the work
is always with the adults tounpack their stories and to do
that healing work so that wethen can turn up for children in
the way that they need.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about this.
I love this is a theme thatI've noticed running throughout
your work the type of childhoodthat you have, the experiences
that you have set you up foreither success or struggle.
As an adult who is trying torelate to kids, right we bring
our own kind of stories andtrauma and our underdeveloped
nervous systems and all of thethings you use the word

(10:24):
imprinting in your work, I think, to talk about this.
Can you tell us what that meansand kind of what you've noticed
?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
around this I look at it through this lens that we
all come into our family oforigin or wherever we are raised
, and we are these beautifullittle sponges just watching
everything.
And so right from the moment,even in utero, you know we pick
up feelings and emotions.
And so right from the moment,even in utero, you know we pick
up feelings and emotions.
And so, once from the moment weare born into this family, we

(10:51):
are watching to understand howthe world works.
So if we're born into a familythat has a whole lot of feelings
around trusting people, forexample, and what we learn as a
little child or is perhaps inour family of origin you don't
trust anyone.
You know, maybe your parentshad their own traumas or they
escaped from the country theywere in or who knows what's
going on and their story hasbeen constantly.

(11:13):
You can't trust anyone.
Like people are sketchy, you'vegot to be careful all the time,
and so the imprint we get, justpurely by watching and
listening, is you can't trustanyone.
People are not okay Now thatthose imprints happen across
everything.
It's our relationship to money,it's our relationship to our
bodies, it's a relationship tofood, it's our relationship to
feelings and emotions.
Is it okay to be angry, is itnot?

(11:34):
Is it safe for me to cry?
Is it not safe for me to cry?
Do I have an imprint that sayssuccess equals earning a lot of
money and driving a fabulous car, you know?
Does success mean looking acertain way and getting the top
grades, like everything that weoften believe in our world comes
from these imprints of whatwe've watched in our family of
origin.

(11:54):
Now, some of them are brilliantimprints, some of them are
amazing, which are aboutkindness, or perhaps it's about
caring for others, or perhapsit's about taking care of our
own needs or having healthyboundaries.
But from working with thousandsof adults for a really long
time, I say the majority of themare not necessarily healthy and
the majority of them come fromthis place of deep trauma where

(12:16):
we're all just trying to protectourselves, where we're all just
trying to keep ourselves safe.
And so often, when we are comingfrom that lens of protection
and keeping ourselves safe, wedon't sit in a place of trust,
we don't sit in a place ofdeeper intimacy and relationship
and all the beautiful stuffthat we know help humans to
thrive.
So, as children, we watch allthese things and all of us have

(12:37):
imprints and then often whathappens is because we watch it
again and again and again, webelieve it to be true and then
we keep looking for evidencethat it is true.
So if we did grow up in thatfamily of origin where you were
told don't trust anyone, peoplewill always lie, people will
cheat.
We walk through life lookingfor that constantly.
You know we don't walk intosituations open to trusting, or

(13:00):
trusting what life is, ortrusting our bodies or trusting
our children.
As parents, we're constantlylooking through that lens of
that.
This is not okay.
I often find that people willcome to my work because they've
got challenges with theirchildren or a crisis has
happened, and it's usuallythrough that adversity that we
go.
This doesn't feel good, likewhat's happening here, and then

(13:20):
we start to look at well, whereare you sitting in life at the
moment and what have youbelieved to be true, and is that
even true and what do youactually want it to look like?
So I do believe we all have thepower to change these stories
and to move into the life thatwe do want to have.
But so often we have to go backto the past to understand what
our imprints were or how we wereraised, in order to be curious

(13:44):
around what we make things meanin the future, and then, as we
can begin to unpack that workand look at those stories and do
our own healing, that is whenwe begin to shift the stories
and we also, as parents, get togo.
Well, what do I want theseimprints to be for my children?
And I always love to say youknow, there is no perfect.

(14:09):
We can't have like a 10-stepplan to go right.
If we do all of this right,then our children will never
have any drama or story ortrauma.
That's not the case.
We're all going to have story.
We're all going to have ourtraumas because we're human.
But our ability to work with it, our ability to lean into it,
our children's ability to haveconsciousness and awareness
around it, makes the path awhole lot easier.
So there is no perfect.
We're never going to nail it sothat we only just feel

(14:29):
happiness.
We're actually meant to havethe contrast of all of it, but
our ability to roll with it andmove through it is what we want
to work with.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have a question about trauma, the word trauma.
We hear that word thrown aroundand we don't always know.
Like I think that if you arekind of new to this space or
kind of this approach toparenting, that might be kind of
a new or different usage of theword.
Like when we say trauma, whatdo you mean when you say?

Speaker 3 (14:57):
trauma.
I think for a lot of us whatwe've thought trauma is is bad
stuff that happens to us, andthere is no doubt that we can
have acute traumas where thatcould be an accident or we're in
hospital or somebody we lovedies or they're those big kind
of events that often we can go.
That was really traumatic.
We can also have complex trauma, which is where we grow up in

(15:18):
an environment that oftendoesn't feel safe.
You know, perhaps we grew up ina family where there was
continuous violence or we didn'thave enough to eat, or perhaps
we were homeless at times orthere was abuse or there was a
lot of yelling and the childbasically goes through their
journey always on very, veryhigh alert because there's often
a risk to their safety.
And so you know, we can seethat with children who are often

(15:40):
hypervigilant or perhaps theyare, you know they often blow up
really easily.
You, you know they often havedifficulties learning.
You know, we know that oftenchildren who grew up in those
environments do struggle greatly.
But I also have seen over theyears what I call connection
trauma, which is the timesperhaps when we were children
where we didn't get our needsmet so we may have lived in a

(16:02):
safe environment and perhaps,you know, we were fed and we
were clothed and we had shelter,but perhaps our parents weren't
able to meet our feelings.
You know, when we got upset orwe were angry about something,
we were shut down or we weresent to our room, or maybe we
were smacked because we weretold we were being naughty, and
those little micro traumas addup for us in our bodies that

(16:24):
send a message that say, well,it's not okay to be like this,
it's not okay for me to be angry, because when I get angry then
my parents get angry and thenthey yell at me and then that
becomes more about the fact thatmy parents are mad with me, not
what I was actually mad aboutin the first place, and that
becomes very scary for a child.
So they learn to suppress theirfeelings and push them down in
order to be loved and in orderto be good.

(16:46):
And so I see those traumas.
A lot play out with adults,which you know.
We can have grown up loving ourparents and feeling loved by
our parents, but we can alsohave spaces within us where we
didn't feel seen and heard andwe felt the pressure to be
something in order to be loved,and I see those as little
traumas that most adults I workwith carry.

(17:07):
You know, it's rare that I meetan adult who grew up in an
environment where all theirfeelings were welcomed, where
the parents were able to owntheir own stories and baggage
and and be really centered intheir own nervous system and be
able to meet a child's feelingswith calm and compassion and
just hold the space for whateverthe child needed to feel.

(17:27):
It's rare that I meet adultsthat grew up in environments
like that because our parentswere doing the best job they
knew how, which was usually justlike be good, be good and I
will love you, and if you're notgood, then I'll take something
away from you, and that is theresult of the behaviorism
paradigm that we've all beenpart of for a really, really
long time.
So it's beautiful and rich tosee, I think, adults these days

(17:49):
doing their own work andunderstanding this and being
able to do their own healing sothat when their beautiful little
three-year-old has a meltdownbecause you cut their sandwich
the wrong way, we're able totake a deep breath and get down
on the floor with them and say,oh, sweetheart, I hear you, it's
big and hold the space for themto express whatever feelings
are sitting there in their bodyand then they find their way

(18:10):
back into balance and then we'reable to move on and the message
we've just given our child is Ilove and accept all of you.
You know, you're not justlovable when you're good or when
you're doing things I approveof.
I love you when you're angryand when you're sad and when
you're frustrated, and also whenyou're happy and when you're
joyous and when we can meet ourchildren in that space.
Then what we do is we createthis deep, beautiful safety

(18:32):
within them that says all of meis welcome, like who I am is
enough.
And when we're operating fromthat space of I am enough, then
we can go into the world withincredible potential and
opportunity to interact withlife in such a free and
magnificent way.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
It sounds like there has to be this huge paradigm
shift, right?
If we weren't raised in thatand as you were talking and
using the word imprint, that wasnew to me.
It just helped me realize thisis why I'm doing this work.
This is how I got into theparent education world, into
fighting for the kids.

(19:13):
Like you said, this is aboutthe kids, because I did have
imprints of kindness, I did havethese small little imprints,
but I had a lot of imprints oftrauma, as you mentioned.
And so, just as I started makingsense of how I got to be where
I am today because that's why Iwould say to therapists I was
one of those you know peoplethat had to go to therapy, but

(19:34):
and I welcome that and I'm verythankful for for that world but
I it just it makes sense to mebecause I'm like, okay, if this
all happened and this is whatthe books are telling me and
this is what how I should bebehaving, but I'm able to access
this.
Why is that?
And I think, just listening toyou, I'm like, okay, cause I did
have good imprints too, and sothey can show up, and I think

(19:57):
it's really powerful once wejust stop and reflect and make
sense of our story.
And then the paradigm thatyou're talking about with the.
You know good and the bad.
Where do you think you knowthat comes from?
Like you said, it's just likebecause this is what our parents
did, but do you think it'scoming from like anything else,
or what is good or bad?

(20:18):
Or can you maybe like breakdown what behavior really is?

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Well, I think we kind of need to pull back a bit and
look at the society and theculture that we've grown up in
in the last, you know, 100, 200years, and that has very much
been about we want compliance.
We want our children and adultsjust to do what they're told.
And so if we want adults justto do what they're told, well

(20:42):
then that's what we imprint themwith when they're little, which
means we say to you when you'regood, we will praise you, when
we will reward you, and whenyou're bad, we'll take something
away from you.
Now you think about it as afive-year-old.
When you have been locked outof the house because you've been
so naughty and you feelterrified, you know the story
you're going to get in.
That moment is oh my god, Ishould never do this again,

(21:04):
because this again, because I'mscared and I'm out here and it's
dark and this is not okay.
And so that five-year-old who'sgot that trauma inside them,
who most times didn't get thechance to process it and say
that didn't feel fair and thatwasn't all right, they just hold
onto it.
And then that littlefive-year-old with him gets
carried around and grows up tobe an adult.
And so whenever they upsetsomeone, they're like, oh God,

(21:26):
this is not okay, I must be goodagain.
And so that's how we getcompliance right.
That's how we get adults to dowhat we want them to do by often
scaring them when they'relittle and creating that fear.
And then we grow up and we becompliant.
I mean, that is really when westep back.
That is the world that we livein, and most of our systems are
set up in that way.
The education system is set upin that way.

(21:46):
Most of our systems are set upto create children to be good
boys and good girls, and I thinkwhat we have to come back to is
going okay.
Well, does that serve us as aculture now?
Does it serve us in the world?
And it actually doesn't,because we see how far we've
swung into disconnection ofourselves, of our bodies, to the
earth, to other people, allthose kind of things.

(22:07):
Because we've swung intodisconnection of ourselves, of
our bodies, to the earth, toother people, all those kind of
things, because we've beenconditioned to just be good and
be, to do what we're told.
But actually, what the worldneeds now is beautiful critical
thinkers.
We need people to go.
Actually, that doesn't feelright for me.
We need people to go, hey,that's not cool what you're
doing out there in the world andthat corruption's not all right
there, and you saying that isactually not okay, that is not

(22:28):
what's best for mankind.
So you know, I can see that aswe are waking up as a human race
, we're beginning to go thatactually this doesn't feel good.
And you think about the power ofthe beautiful internet and all
those things that has madeinformation so accessible to us.
I mean, the learning and growththat we have done in the last
20 years is way more than ourparents or grandparents ever had

(22:50):
access to, right?
So the amount of people now whounderstand trauma, who
understand emotional awareness,who have insight into wow, this
is how we work as humans andthis is the impact of what it's
having is amazing, becausethere's more and more people
waking up to go hey, weshouldn't treat children this
way and this is not okay.
So for a long time, I think wehave seen behavior as basically

(23:14):
good and bad.
When you're good, I will rewardyou and you have my approval,
and therefore the child goesokay.
Who I am as a person is based onwhether you think I'm okay or
not.
So children grow up constantlyscanning and searching and
looking do you approve of me, amI okay, am I enough?
And when that person goes, goodboy, good girl, you're amazing.

(23:34):
We go I must be enough, right.
But then what happens is wegrow up to be an adult and we
want to try something new andand someone says, well, I don't
like it.
Then we go into complete crisisbecause we're like I'm going to
be judged or nobody's going tolike me or I'm not going to have
any friends.
And again there's thatbeautiful little child within us
going.
This is really, really unsafe,because I need everybody to
approve of me.
And that is a lot of the adultsthat I work with these days.

(23:56):
You know, we have really poorrelationship to our boundaries,
to self-care, to all thosethings, because steeped
underneath it is this story thatsays I'm only lovable when I'm
good, or I'm only lovable if youapprove.
So when we look back to, I guess, how behavior has been
conditioned into us we have sobeen indoctrinated into that.
When a child is acting up, whenthey're having a beautiful,

(24:18):
glorious meltdown because theirsister has more ice cream than
them, or our teenagers isgetting really angry because
they're so overwhelmed with allthe pressure they've got to do.
We look at them through thelens of you are bad and that is
not okay and you need to go toyour room and be quiet and come
out when you're happy again, oryou need to do something to you
know that I approve of, andreally what we need to do is

(24:39):
take a step back and go.
Actually, all behavior iscommunicating something.
When a four-year-old is havinga meltdown because of, you know,
the wrong colored cup, well wecan presume that there's
probably something else going onbesides the cup right, because
it's a cup.
And when our teenagers areflying off the handle because we
asked them to take the dog fora walk, well, could we look
behind that behavior and go gee,I wonder what else is going on

(25:00):
here, because that's a prettybig reaction to just taking the
dog for a walk.
So I think what we need to dois take a step back and look at
when a child is upset.
When an adult is upset, there'salways a reason behind it, and
usually the reason behind it hasusually got to do with worry or
fear or stress or trauma oranxiety or sadness or grief, or

(25:23):
just pick your feelings.
You know I often say anger isjust this beautiful mask for a
whole lot of sad and woundingthat usually sit underneath.
And when we can begin to lookbehind the behavior and when we
can begin to look at every humanwith curiosity to say I wonder
what's going on for them there,because they're not in their
most anchored, balanced self,there must be something going on
.
Then we open up the possibilityof this beautiful communication

(25:48):
and beautiful opportunities forconnection to help people feel
safe, to move through whatever'spresent in order to come back
into balance.
And I absolutely and I'm sureboth of you would stand by this
there is no such thing as a badchild.
There is no such thing as anaughty child.
There are just children thatare out of balance.
There are children that havegot a big backpack full of
feelings and emotion and traumathat they're trying to move.

(26:11):
And if we could look throughthat lens towards children, then
I think the world would be acompletely different place,
because we would be coming fromthis place of our heart and
compassion that says, hey, I seeyou and I can see that hard
things have happened to you andI'm here to help you and make it
safe enough for you to feelwhat you need to feel and let it
go.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And what we end up doing is we make it harder on
ourselves and we create so muchmore strife than I think we even
need to create.
I was thinking about just thismorning trying to get my son to
get in the car.
Mornings are hard for him.
He's, he goes to Montessorischool but he has to leave early
since it's far from our house.

(26:50):
And he just walked over to acabinet, sat down Cause I was
like hey, can you go get yourshoes on?
You know, I'm like bright andready to like go, and he sits
down and he's just sitting therelike this, and I could have
just been like go get your shoes, you know, and getting into
demanding mode, cause I recentlyhad a parent say to me but it
just takes so much time, I don'thave time to sit and connect

(27:12):
with them and ask them how theiremotions are.
But I was thinking about thatand I was like but don't you
think it'll be a lot quickerthough if you connect?
And that's what happened thismorning.
I got down on this level and hewas grumpy.
So I was like, maybe I'll try,play and see.
So I had his shirt and Istarted putting it on myself and
then he like, you know, alittle smirk.

(27:33):
So I was like, okay, I got him,like we're going to be able to
connect here, and if he wouldn'thave smirked then I probably
would have, you know, triedsomething else.
And so I then I took the shirtand he had a little Lego guy in
his hand and I was like, oh,let's see if it fits the Lego
guy.
And I like tried to put it onthe Lego guy and he's like no,
it goes on me.
And I was like, okay, and thenhe put it on.
That was probably less than 20seconds, whereas if I would have

(27:55):
had this thought about him ofhe is being bad right now.
He needs to go get his clotheson and get his shoes on and get
in the car and all thesejudgments instead of he just
needs a little connection.
He just woke up and he is notready to go to school yet.
It's amazing how much more timewe can save ourselves.
Number one and number two justwe can find more joy and

(28:19):
happiness.
Because if I would have gottento that mode, then I probably
would have climbed down theladder of the autonomic nervous
system into my sympathetic and Iwould have been setting my day
up to not be very fun either.
I love that you give thatexample.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
It's so perfect.
I think every parent couldrelate to that, and I guess the
challenge or the trick withinthat is that we have to be
anchored and centered enough tobe able to see that and to be
able to respond in that way, andI think that is one of the
biggest things that I just wishI could just wrap all parents in
a big hug and go it's hard.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
It's been such hard work to get to this place, for
sure, absolutely Because of allthe trauma, but it's not
impossible.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
It is not impossible and I think it's such a
beautiful point you bring up,because most of us were never
modeled what this looks like.
Most of us have never actuallyexperienced that in our own
bodies.
Having someone look us in theeye, you know, be playful, be
compassionate, not judge us,hold space for our feelings.
Most of us as adults have neveractually experienced that.

(29:22):
And then we're trying to dothat for our children, and then
we find it challenging at times,which is really understandable.
And then we're trying to dothat for our children, and then
we find it challenging at times,which is really understandable.
And then we get reallyjudgmental of ourselves and then
we beat ourselves up and thenthe cycle continues.
And so we need so much space forcompassion for ourselves as
adults, because we are parentingin a way that often we've never
actually experienced before,and so that's why so much of my

(29:45):
work comes back to how do wemeet our own needs, how do we
take care of ourselves, how dowe fill up our own cups?
So we can do exactly what youdid so beautifully Be playful,
be curious, lean in, hold spacefor it.
So I love that example you gave.
It's so spot on of thepossibility of what we can do.
But because we're often sohardwired to see it through the

(30:08):
lens of hard and difficult andtime pressures and all those
kinds of things, we can oftenforget that and then we get so
stuck in our own stress and thenit just spirals.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I love when you say kids can't be what they can't
see, because that's so powerfuland then just to like, reflect
that back, like, and you can'tbe what you didn't see, and
that's why you have to do thiswork in yourself.
And so I'm wondering why youthink I mean we've touched on it
.
But if you want to go deeper,like why is it so hard for us to

(30:40):
see you keep using the wordanchored?
Tell us what you mean by that.
Like why is it hard for adultsto regulate their own emotions
and kind of be able to show upin that way and kind of be able
to show up in that way?

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, well, when you think about it, if you were to
review your story, if you hadyour timeline in front of you of
all the things that happened toyou right from when you were
born up until now, we would seethese touch points through all
parts of our story where perhapswe didn't get our needs met,
where we were yelled at, wherewe had trauma and stress, that
we didn't get to move throughour bodies, where we felt scared
and terrified.

(31:11):
We didn't get to move throughour bodies.
Where we felt scared andterrified, like you know, we
would have a story.
We'd look at our story and go,whoa, it's kind of a miracle
that I'm here and I'm doing okayand that I can be remotely nice
to people, right, because allof that is sitting there.
So when we firstly look back atour story, we have to have
compassion of gosh, it's been alot and there's been a journey,

(31:35):
and so then I think we thenstart to go, okay, well, how do
I become what I want my kids tosee, right, and I want them to
be?
And so I think then we have tolook at well, I've done, this
has happened to me and I have tohave compassion for my story
and then we take a look at, well, how do we heal whatever may be
still may parts that still bethere for us, and this is where
therapy can be brilliant.
This is where we can havethings like listening partners,
where we get to just talk aboutthe frustrations and hard parts

(31:56):
about being human.
The more we get to be heard andthe more we get to feel like
it's safe for us to be heard,the more we begin to change that
story in our bodies and itincreases our ability to
actually hear others.
So when I talk about being theanchor, I often explain it to
parents, like our children, inthis beautiful little boat out
on the ocean, and sometimes it'ssmooth sailing and it's

(32:17):
beautiful and we're connected tothem and we're like, yeah, this
is great.
And sometimes it's super rockyand the waves are crashing, and
it's in those moments ourchildren, they need to know that
we have got them.
They need to know that we stilllove them and we're connected
to them, even amongst the storm.

(32:38):
And so I use the analogy ofbeing the anchor, which means
you are rock solid, like you aregrounded, you are anchored so
that when things are rocky, youknow how to take a deep breath.
You kind of imagine your feetrooted on the earth.
You might even put your hand onyour heart and your belly and
say you know, this is not anemergency, it is okay.
I'm the adult here.
I can meet my child in this andwe begin to train ourselves to
actually go.
Hey, I can see in the storm andit is okay.

(33:01):
But a lot of the time we needto work through our own stuff
first, and that's why therapy isbrilliant, or doing courses or
understanding our journey.
Sometimes we need body work tohelp let our bodies move the
trauma and story that it's stillcarrying.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Like you keep saying, likeyou're feeling this in your body
or move it through your body,can you tell us more about what?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
you mean I often look at it this way is, you know,
when we have traumaticexperiences, the way our body's
set up is, we have thesebeautiful responses that allow
us to process and survive inthat moment.
So many people hear about thatfight or flight response.
So if something dramatichappens, we've got the ability
to protect ourselves or we canrun away.
If a tiger was chasing us,we've got that freeze response

(33:44):
which makes us kind of play deadon some level, which just
protects us.
We've got that fawn responsewhich can be I've got to be nice
and got to be liked here inorder to survive.
So we have these inbuiltnatural mechanisms within us
that are all about survival,because we're hardwired for
survival.
But so often what happens is wehave a scary experience and we
will have that adrenaline rushor we'll have that response in

(34:06):
our body, but then we actuallydon't complete it.
So our body does what it needsto but then actually gets stuck.
So I often love to tell theexperience about.
Many years ago my youngestdaughter was outside in the
backyard and then I heard thisbig yelp and her friend comes
running in going oh my goodness,she's hurt herself and I go
outside and we had a hammock andshe kneeled on the hammock and
then the hammock swung and shejust kind of basically hit the

(34:28):
deck, fell on her arm, and Iwent outside and she's laying on
the ground and her eyes are bigand wide and I can see she's
like in full, like shock, trauma, and she's hurt herself.
And so I went up to her and Isaid, sweetheart, I'm not going
to move you, I'm not going totouch you, I'm just going to be
with you, but I just want you todo whatever your body needs to
do for the next few minutes.
And so she instantly startedshaking, right.

(34:50):
So her body started shaking,which is so beautiful.
This is the body's inbuilt,natural mechanism to heal, to go
.
Oh my God, there's so muchadrenaline pumping through my
system.
How do I move it?
Well, I'm going to shake.
So she starts shaking.
And then she started crying.
And then she'd start shakingagain and she'd start crying.
And so for 15 minutes I justsat beside her and then said I'm
right with you, darling.
You said I'm right with you,darling, you're really safe,
keep going, you're doing abeautiful job.

(35:11):
Let your body do what it needsto do.
And so for those 15 minutes sheshook and she cried and then
after about 15 minutes, herwhole body softened and relaxed.
And then she looks me in theeyes, her eyes are bright, and
she goes I think I broke my arm.
And I go yeah, I think you didtoo.
And I go let's go to hospital.
So we get up, we got a hospitaland that was it.
And again she had a bit of pain, but there was no story around

(35:35):
actually what happened, becausein that moment her body got to
do what it needed to do.
I worked in birth for a longtime, so I was with women often
when they had their babies, andbirth is a huge experience and
we need adrenaline to help pushour babies out.
And often it can be stressfulexperiences and so often I would
see women would give birth andthen they would lay there
shaking and often midwives well,many go oh, you're cold, I'll

(35:56):
give you a blanket.
I'm like, oh, no, no, your bodyis just doing what it needs to
to complete.
So I would say to the womenkeep shaking, you're doing a
beautiful job, keep going.
Now our body releases thisstress and trauma through crying
, through laughing, throughshaking, through um sweating,
through yawning, through allthese incredible sweating,
through yawning, through allthese incredible things that our
body's designed to do to movethe stress and trauma.

(36:18):
In these moments, and when wethink about so many times, we
will have incidences where we'vehad a shock, where something
scary has happened and thepeople around us well-meaningly
go, shh, it's okay, it's okay,and they stop what our body's
actually doing, or we stop ourchildren from crying when they
hurt themselves, or we go, it'sokay, don't worry about it, it's
fine, instead of actually like,oh, what do you need?

(36:40):
Just keep going, keep going.
And if we can bring thespaciousness to it to allow the
body and the person to feel safeenough to complete the process,
then we're not necessarilystoring that trauma in our
bodies.
And so when I look at trauma, Ilook at it in a few ways.
One, whenever I'm unpacking astory with somebody or you know,

(37:00):
I did a lot of birth traumawork we have to often understand
what happened to us.
So people want to understandthe story, so they need to tell
the story, to make sense of it.
They have to understand in thebrain well, that happened next
and, and then that happened andthat's why this happened.
And they need to often makesense of what's happened in the
brain, but then their body alsohas to have the opportunity to

(37:21):
complete and feel what it neededto feel and and we want to do
that in ways that are reallysafe.
And we need to do that in waysthat feel really safe and
contained so that we're notre-traumatizing the body but we
are letting the body know hey,it's safe for you to move
whatever you need to move here,and so that can be somatic
experiencing.
It can be things like TRE, itcan be other body work.

(37:42):
You know I work a lot withcranial osteopathy that do some
beautiful work with babies andmoms around, particularly around
birth trauma and stress likethat.
There's some beautifulmodalities out there that
support the body to actuallycomplete what it needs to
complete.
I mean, many years ago, when Ihad my third child, I ended up
having quite a huge journey withher.
It was a bit of a life anddeath experience for both of us

(38:04):
and I came out of thatexperience and you know I
remember going yeah, there's alot of trauma here for me, but I
wasn't ready to deal with itfor about a year and a half,
like I remember.
Finally, when I got my babyhome, I was like right, I've got
three kids, now I just have tobe a mom.
And it wasn't until about 18months later that the trauma
began to surface, and it beganto surface in really high

(38:25):
anxiety.
I would start to feel panickedabout stuff and all of a sudden
I remember thinking okay, nowit's time, it's time for my body
actually to it's enough distant, enough time has passed.
I feel safe enough now toactually work through what's
happening, and I had to spendnearly a year working through
the trauma of that experiencethrough my body and
understanding it, and it waschallenging, but it was

(38:48):
incredible because I got toreally experience PTSD and then
the completion of that and themovement of what that was in my
body and at the same time, helpmy baby heal from her stress and
trauma in those spaces as well.
So I think we have to look atit from many, many angles when
we're looking at trauma, andthis is why, again, we have to
have so much compassion forourselves as parents, because

(39:10):
we've all had traumatic stuffhappen to us and most of the
time we did not get the supportand the holding and the love
that we needed to help processwhatever happened yes, what
keeps coming up for me is thisis how we create resilience.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
this is how resilience happens in the brain.
I read once it was was Dr TinaPayne Bryson's book on I think
it was attachment, and Dr DanSiegel, and it was just a one
sentence.
But it says something likeresilience can't happen if
there's stress present, becausethere's so many times with kids
where we just push right, wejust push, or we're told don't

(39:48):
rescue them or don't dosomething for them if they can
already do it, but then underthis lens, if you understand,
okay.
Well, if they're flooded withadrenaline and cortisol and they
have all this stress in thebrain or they have all these
emotions trapped inside andwe're not allowing them to get
them out, then resilience isn'tgoing to happen.

(40:09):
They're not going to be able tobounce back from these things,
and that's why I think all thiswork is so interconnected.
Once you start really lookingat it, it really starts to make
sense.
But it's not until we makesense of our narrative and our
story, like you're saying, forus to be able to get there.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, totally.
I love what you say aboutresilience because it's so true
and I often say this to parents.
I'm like resilience is not ourability to kind of suck it up
and get on with hard things,it's not grit.
Resilience is our ability tofeel whatever we need to feel
around the experience thathappened.
Ask for support if we needsupport, process it and then

(40:49):
move on.
That's what develops thatbeautiful muscle of resilience.
But if we and this is ourculture in particular here in
Australia we have this reallystrong grit culture which is
like get on with it, it's fine.
We praise people who are stoicright In the biggest adversity.
We're like, look at them,they're so amazing, they're back
at work the next day.
I'm like, oh God, no.

(41:10):
What we have to take a look atis what resilience is, is our
ability to feel the hard things,and we are so very good at not
doing that.
We are so very good atrepressing those feelings.
We are so good at holding ontothem and pretending they're not
there and then they kind of leakout the sides, in places where
we don't want, when it's angeror aggression or violence or
those kinds of things.

(41:31):
So that beautiful resilience.
I love that you connected inwith that is, it is safety.
We need safety first to feelthe hard stuff so we can process
it and then move on.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
This is all so helpful in parenting, but I want
to shift the conversation totalking about the classroom a
little bit and to hear moreabout your school that you've
started and just kind of howyou've taken all of this and
embedded it into school.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Our school really came about just because one of
the women I built it with was aclient of mine and her child was
starting school.
And she just came to me sayingGod, I just hate the way that
all this unfolds.
You know, he's not allowed tomove his body when he wants and
he can't eat when he wants.
And you know, she proposed theidea to me of what if we built a
school based on all the thingsthat you've taught me, and I was

(42:16):
well.
Firstly, you know, I was like Iknow nothing about building a
school.
So I was like are you kiddingme?
It took a while to get me overthe line.
Building a school is hard.
It is so hard.
It is so hard.
It's like one of the hardestthings I've ever done.
It took us three years to do it, but the whole basis of our
school is around a lot of thestuff we're talking about.
One of the core pieces is justchoice and autonomy.

(42:39):
As humans, we need choice andautonomy, which means wear what
you want to wear, sit where youwant to sit, go to the toilet
when you want to, you can eatwhen you want to, you can take
your shoes off if you want justthe basics around humans.
I mean, I often joke if we asadults had to go to school like
most of our children do, wewould last an hour and then we'd
be outraged and get up and walkout right?

Speaker 1 (42:58):
I've heard Katie say that before, for sure yeah we'd
just be like what is this?

Speaker 3 (43:03):
This is crazy.
Like one of the beautifullittle students you know I've
chatted to once.
We're talking about school.
She's like I just take ordersall day and I'm like, yeah, you
do right.
So we're looking at just basicsaround choice and autonomy, but
also around learning whatignites them and learning the
way that feels best.
So in our school we follow theAustralian curriculum.

(43:23):
You know we are, you know weare a school that has to abide
by all the kind of governmentrules and regulations, but the
way we deliver the curriculum isis, I think, makes us unique.
We're a really heavy playboastlearning school, so we do a lot
of Reggio Emilia stuff with ourplay.
But our philosophy is where canwe do it outside?
If we can do it outside, let'sdo it outside.
And our beautiful leader oflearning always has says,

(43:45):
constantly with everything,nothing without joy.
How do we make this joyous?
How do we make it fun?
How do we make it interactive?
How take it outside?
How do we incorporate nature?
So we're always looking at thatin how we deliver the
curriculum.
The other piece that we are bigon, which is non-punitive
discipline in our school, so wedon't use punishments and
rewards ever.
We are always looking behindthe behavior.
So when a child is having ahard time, we're always moving

(44:07):
into curiosity.
What do they need right now?
Do they need to go move theirbodies?
Do they have to go jump on thetrampoline or have a swing?
Do they need to go outside andplay basketball with one of our
guides for a bit?
Do they need a limit, perhaps,that we have to set lovingly so
they can push up against it andthey can release some big
feelings?
We welcome tears.
We welcome all the frustrationswe really are about how do we

(44:28):
help children come back intobalance so that they can learn,
and what we see already in thethree years is in so much in our
holding and our philosophy ofdoing this.
What is so magnificent ischildren are now able to walk
into a space and go.
I'm feeling like this, I needthis and then they go and do it,
so they're not having to actout and they're not having to
disrupt, because they'reactually being able to identify.

(44:50):
I've got something going oninside me.
This is what I need to do Now.
That was so much.
Part of my goal in building theschool is if we can get
children to be connected enoughto themselves to then be able to
ask for what they need.
Then they're going to be inalignment with who they are and
then they're going to be free tobe who they need to be.
So that's one of the big things, and it's not easy to do.

(45:11):
It takes a lot of unlearning,particularly for the adults who
work at our school, because mostof them were brought up in
punitive environments.
So it takes a lot to not powerover children and to undo it.
But we are always coming back tolooking through the lens of
where is the child?
Are they in balance, are theynot?
What do we need to do tosupport them to do it?
What can we see the biggerpicture here?
So you know, there's all thatas, I guess, our basics and

(45:34):
fundamentals of our school.
But we are on a beautiful20-acre farm as well, so the
children have a lot to do withanimals there.
They take care of the farm.
You know.
It's the most beautifulproperty, so there's many trees
that children climb and createwith and all those kind of
things and really bringing themback to connection to themselves
and the earth.
We're also in no tech school,which means our children don't

(45:55):
learn on ipads or anything likethat, which is pretty standard
here in australia and, um, Imean, I often joke, children
know how to open an ipad and usea computer, like we don't need
to teach them.
Um, you know, they learn how todo that when they're two, uh,
and so again, we come back tothose kind of basics of keeping
them connected to themselves.
And, yeah, and it's a reallybeautiful, extraordinary place

(46:17):
to be and we have some amazingguides that that come work there
and bring their gorgeousexpertise and, and you know,
even though we're three years in, I think the school has far
surpassed ever what I everthought it could be, which is a
pretty amazing thing, and that'sgot to do so much with our
leaders who our principal andour leaders who run it.
You know they took my visionand went right now let's do this

(46:40):
, and it's just extraordinary towatch actually.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
That's amazing.
It makes me wonder why we'restill doing school the way we
are, especially hearing whatyou're able to I almost said
what we're able to get the kidsto do but it's not us getting
the kids to do.
They're able to run and be whothey were created to be, which
is so powerful.
I just wish I mean one day, oneday, this is our one day all

(47:07):
schools are going to be likethis.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Yeah, and I have a lot of compassion of why.
Why we can.
We are a fee-paying school,which means, you know, parents
have to earn money to be able tosend their children to school,
which really only works becausewe have to pay enough adults to
be there, to be present, to holdthe space, like it's a really
tricky thing.
I completely understand that somany of our systems are not set
up that way.
They're not set up to supportthe adults.

(47:30):
In the schooling system we havemaximum 16 children in a class
and we have two guides in aclass.
You know, most standard schoolsin Australia have up to 28
children and one teacher andthat's it, you know.
And I think it's really hard tomeet children with connection
and compassion when you've got28 children.
Like it makes sense of why itdoesn't actually work.
So I think we have to changeour environments, we have to

(47:56):
change the whole completestructure of how it looks, and
that's a massive overhaulbecause we've been doing this
education thing the same way fora very, very, very long time
and I think if COVID showed usanything, it was about how many
children were being left behind,how many kids were slipping
through the cracks and how weactually it's time to look at it
and go does this even actuallywork and what are we teaching
our children Like?
Do they really need to knowabout some of these things that

(48:18):
we set up a long time ago?
The world looks completelydifferent now, and what does the
world need and how do wesupport children to make that
beautiful impact in the world?
For the way you know, for thebig, for the bigger picture.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
And we can start with very small changes.
You know for the big, for thebigger picture, and we can start
with very small changes.
I would love to continue totalk to you.
This has been so fruitful andjust such a beautiful
conversation.
I would love to end with ourlast question that we ask all of
our guests.
It's who is someone in yourlife who has kindled your love
of learning, curiosity,motivation or passion?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Oh, that's a good, good question it doesn't have to
necessarily be someone you know.
It could be an author or anyonethat's inspired you two people
come to mind.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
One is actually the principal of our school.
I have just the mostunbelievable respect and
admiration for her for what shetook on in our school, but how
she runs with it and the jobthat she carries and how she
always comes back to right.
What else could we do?
How could we make it even moreamazing?
I love that she's got thisincredible blank slate and just

(49:23):
is looking at through what ispossible here.
So I, I love that I have somuch admiration for her.
I think the other person isactually my son, who's 23 and
who he is in his spirit and theway he looks at life constantly
blows me away, because he isjust constantly looking through
a lens of curiosity andpossibility and never sets any

(49:47):
limits for himself.
He's like, oh, that's possible,and that's possible, and I
could do this and I could dothat, and he just jumps into
life in that way and I, I just Ilove his connectedness to
himself.
It inspires me.
I'm like I wish I was that at23.
I wish I was still that now.
I mean, I'm getting there, butI think he does it with even
more grace and ease and that'swho.

(50:07):
That's who really, reallyinspires me as well, so they are
good questions, thank you.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Thank you so much for your time.
So tell our listeners how theycan learn more about your work.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
So you can find me at laelstonecomau.
I am the only Lael Stone onGoogle at the moment, so thanks
parents for giving me a weirdname.
So, if you Google me, you canfind me, and I'm on social media
as well, and so I have lots ofdifferent Uh, you Google me, you
can find me.
Uh, and I'm on social media aswell, and so I have lots of
different online courses on mywebsite, which is for parents

(50:39):
and educators, my books on thewebsite and connections to all
the podcasts and stuff I've beenon.
So, yeah, probably best is umthrough my website.
There, you can find me there.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Lovely Well.
Thank you so much for your time.
I've learned so much from ourconversation.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yes, Thank you so much for coming on.
My pleasure.
That's it for today.
We hope you enjoyed ourconversation with Lael Katie.
So I would love to know whatwas your biggest takeaway from
Lael Cause you said she's likecompletely new on your radar and
what they're doing at Woodlineis so in line with what we're
doing at Prenda.

(51:09):
So what was your biggesttakeaway?

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I just love that quote kids can't be what they
can't see because it just makesit so clear that our first job
is not to affect change in thechild's behavior or feelings or
academic performance, anythinglike that.
Our first job is to model andto be an example, and that means
that we need to be able to getto this anchored or grounded

(51:33):
spot in our system internally sothat we can then show up and be
that for them.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
So I think that was my biggest takeaway yes, mine
definitely was the letting allwhat's happening to you and your
emotions to be released, theshaking because animals do this,
and it's just amazing how westop that.
And then it makes sense to meof why we are in such a mental
health crisis is because we'renot allowing our bodies to get

(52:01):
all of this junk out of oursystems.
That was really huge for me.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Totally, and that's exactly.
It's like emotions and bigfeelings like that Like if I saw
my kid like crying and shaking,that would be very like
alarming to me because I've beenimprinted with big feelings and
emotions aren't okay.
You need to repress and likecontrol yourself all the time.
So then I get worked up inthose situations and can't stay
calm.
So I need to like re-scriptwhat that means for me so that

(52:27):
when I see that I can like holdspace, like Lael was talking
about, instead of reacting ortrying to like encourage them to
repress or control.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, this is super powerful information.
It's not just in parentingeither.
We can apply this into allrelationships, especially
relationships with kids.
It just takes a littleawareness and understanding.
If this episode was helpful toyou, please like, subscribe and
follow us on social at PrendaLearn.
If you have a question you'dlike us to address, leave a

(52:56):
comment or email us at podcastat Prendacom.
You can also join our Facebookgroup called the Kindle
Collective and subscribe to ourweekly newsletter called the
Sunday Spark.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
The Kindle podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy for you tostart and run an amazing micro
school based on all the thingsthat we talk about here on the
kindle podcast.
If you want more informationabout guiding a prenda micro
school, go to prendacom.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep kindling.
Thank you.

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Season 1 Top 10 | #4 Nurturing Resilience. A Conversation with Lael Stone.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 1 Top 10 | #4 Nurturing Resilience. A Conversation with Lael Stone.