October 30, 2025 • 39 mins
We explore how clear promises to families can reshape a district and spark a statewide network of microschools. George shares the roadmap from listening to homeschoolers to opening a K–12 site at a campground, plus the courage and imposter syndrome that come with big dreams.
• four promises as the foundation for culture and decisions
• replacing compliance‑driven teacher evaluation with growth
• enrollment insights from homeschool and virtual families
• designing a statewide charter and governance model
• launching a K–12 microschool at a youth campground
• multi‑age, self‑paced, hands‑on learning in small groups
• founder support through district back‑office services
• honest trade‑offs on services, logistics and scale
• using microschools as living labs for district change
• practical advice for leaders facing imposter syndrome
About our guest
Dr. George Philhower serves as the superintendent at Eastern Hancock Schools in Indiana. He holds a Bachelors in Elementary and Special Education from Cardinal Stritch University, a Masters in Instructional Leadership from the University of Indianapolis, and an Ed.S. and Ph.D. from Indiana State University. George imagines a future where every student and educator wakes up genuinely excited to go to school—not because they have to, but because they know it’s a place where they are safe to be themselves, where success is attainable, where their work has meaning, where friendships thrive, and where they are greeted by adults who truly see, support, and love them. George is convinced that the best way to make this vision a reality is through collaboration among leaders in the field of education who are committed to disrupting the status quo. George works hard to share the work happening in his district and learn from others in the field in order to make his vision a reality.
Connect with George
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The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
I dream that we can create a system that works for
(00:02):
all of them.
So the vision of IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is
that every single kid in Indianashould get to go to a school
that feels like it was designedjust for them.
And you know, that's that's ourdream.
And and I think impostersyndrome comes when your dreams
are so big that they scare you.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Hi, and welcome back to the Prenda Podcast.
I'm Kelly Smith, your host fortoday, and we'll be talking to
Dr.
George Philhour, who's thesuperintendent at Eastern
Hancock Schools in Indiana.
He has a bachelor's inelementary and special ed from
Cardinal Strait University,Master's in Instructional
Leadership from University ofIndianapolis, and an education
science and PhD from IndianaState University.
(00:40):
But in addition to these degreesand backgrounds and his deep
experience in education, Georgehas a big dream.
He envisions a time when allstudents and staff wake up
excited to go to school everyday.
He wants kids to feel like theschool they attend was designed
for them.
And as part of that, he hascreated the Indiana Microschool
Collaborative.
(01:01):
We'll be talking to him aboutmicroschools, about innovating
in education generally, howinnovation can be a dirty word
in education circles sometimes,changing culture, making
promises to families.
I think you're really going tolove this conversation and
excited to share GeorgePhilhauer with you.
George Philhauer from Indiana,welcome to the podcast.
(01:24):
Thanks for having me.
George, I've been lookingforward to this conversation.
Let's start by just introducingour listeners to you and who you
are.
You've been an educator for awhile now.
And can you kind of give your,you know, a summary of your
professional background?
I'd love for people to know whothey're listening to.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Sure.
I'm George Philhour.
Like you said, I'm thesuperintendent at Eastern
Hancock Schools.
We're a small rural districtjust east out just outside of
Indianapolis.
So if you've ever been toIndianapolis and you've taken
Interstate 70 towards Ohio, youcan literally see our district
from the interstate.
However, we're rural enough, youcan't really get there from
(02:02):
there.
So we're kind of out in themiddle of nowhere.
Okay.
40% students come to us bychoice.
So in Indiana, it's openenrollment.
Kids can go to school prettymuch wherever they want.
And 40% of our families drive toour district from out of
district.
Prior to being at EasternHancock, I was at Western Wayne
Schools, which is which iscloser to that Ohio area.
I was superintendent for thelast two of the 13 years that I
(02:26):
was there.
When I was a teacher, I was aspecial education teacher.
And yeah, I've, you know, justbeen an educator my whole life.
I've lived my whole lifeaccording to the school
calendar.
I've never lived a year, youknow, since I was five years old
that was not a part of theschool calendar.
So just a lifelong educator.
And again, couldn't be moreexcited to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yeah, a couple things kind of standing out as
you kind of tell your story.
One, nobody does special ed inparticular.
Really, no one does education atall without really caring a lot
about kids.
So that's coming through in theway you're you're talking about
your background.
And I appreciate that.
The other thing is isinnovation.
And I think, you know, some somepeople don't think of school
districts as being innovators.
(03:09):
I think this this point that yousay 40% coming to East Hancock
School District from, I'mguessing from the city.
I mean, are they driving outfrom Indianapolis or coming from
other places?
I mean, that's that'sinteresting.
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Yeah, mostly not Indianapolis.
Um we're 40 minutes fromIndianapolis, so that would be
pretty good drive to get toschool, uh, at least you know,
from where we are.
Um but they come from theneighboring districts that yeah,
yeah, we we're pretty proud ofof what we do.
Um, you know, I've I've been atEastern Hancock for four years.
It was a pretty special placebefore I got there, but we we
(03:45):
kind of define the work that wedo within four promises that are
outlined in our strategic plan.
So promise number one for us isjoy, just the idea that we want
to think every day, what do wedo to make these people want to
be at this place?
I think the world of educationneeds some intentional joy.
If we don't, we just payattention to the gravity of life
around us.
It's not really pulling ustowards a place of joy, so it's
(04:06):
got to be intentional.
So we do lots of little thingsto bring joy to life.
Um, next week we actually have aconference at Eastern Hancock
called Joy Jam, where educatorscome from across the country and
join us for two days of fun andum great learning.
Promise number two for us is wecall it connection.
It's just the idea that everyoneshould feel known by name,
strength, interest, futurehopes, and dreams and needs.
(04:27):
And then we feel like if we cancreate a place where everybody
feels known that like that way,that it's pretty special.
Promise number three is growth.
Obviously, we're school, so wewant everybody learning new
things every day that they willremember, which sounds really
simple unless you've ever taughtanything ever, and you know that
it's it's way more complicatedthan that.
And then promise number four, wecall success, and it's just the
(04:48):
idea that it's our reminder thatour our job's not to produce a
bunch of academically proficientkids.
It's it's we want kids that areconfident and excited about that
Monday after graduation.
So we really work hard to blendwhat's next with what's
happening now.
And so it's not a work-basedlearning and college on campus
and and those kinds of thingsthat are happening.
(05:08):
And so everything that that wedo at Easter Hancock fills
through the filter of those fourpromises.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
Oh.
Can I just pause and say havingpromises, presumably promises to
the students and to theirparents, which is already put
you in a pretty unique category.
I mean, I work with, you know,educators.
I think there's a lot ofemphasis on compliance, on, you
know, checking boxes for thestate, even the portrait of the
graduate work that I think hasbecome pretty popular is often
(05:36):
oriented toward maybe a promiseto society in general or to
taxpayers.
But for you to go directly toyour community and and it's
showing, right?
40% of your kids are coming fromother places.
They're intentionally choosingthis because they believe your
promise and and you're doing it.
So did were you were you theinitiator of that or did you
(05:57):
inherit these four promises?
How did that all come comeabout?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
When I was hired by my school board, one of the
early charges was was to createa strategic plan.
And you described us asinnovative and nothing will
scare people away more than theword innovation.
So we don't try to talk aboutthat.
We we try to talk about thecommon sense things that we want
to do to get better.
And so, you know, jointconnection, growth, and success
(06:20):
are are are things that wedefinitely wanted to be aspire
towards, but they're alsodescriptors of the things that
were true about our communitythat we were already pretty
proud of.
Like when we're operating at ourbest, those are four things that
we're doing really, really well.
But they're also, you know,they're things that we'll never
quite achieve, you know, andyeah, but um definitely
(06:42):
aspirational promises.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
I think everybody that enters education at some
point wants those things, right?
They want to connect, they wantto help deliver joy and ignite
this love of learning.
They want growth to happen,obviously.
I think they want success, whichyou could map to real world
meaning and and purpose.
So you you put these promisesout there, but it runs into a
brick wall in some cases,especially when it comes to
(07:07):
checking boxes and compliance.
Some of these things that we'vebeen talking about.
Did you have any issues with youknow working with your existing
faculty, staff, teachers, justto say, like, look, we're gonna
make these promises?
I mean, I would imaginesomebody, even a
well-intentioned person, saying,Hey, George, like, I'm sorry,
but I'm already overstretched.
I I can't make those promises.
(07:27):
I can't do that.
You know, is is that was that aa journey for you guys, or did
it, you know, just sort ofhappen easily?
SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
Yeah, I I don't know.
I don't know that we havereached much resistance at all.
I mean, it's pretty hard toargue with joy, right?
Like if you if somebody asksyou, Kelly, hey, do you want
more joy or less joy?
Like you're probably going tochoose more.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Um, I I've heard the word, the phrase unfunded
mandate bantied about, right?
I mean, do you get into thatsort of that would be the
opposition?
It's not that this is a badgoal.
It's just how am I supposed todo that?
Uh, you're already giving me somany other things that I have to
do, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, true.
So I think we use that wordinnovation, and and really I
like to think about it as moreof a relentless pursuit toward
towards something.
And so when when when that's thegoal, then how we respond when
we come up against barriers likethat are it's different than
like you don't just say no, youtry to figure out that's why we
(08:26):
call them promises.
You know, if I say something's apriority, I got lots of
priorities that I don't get toever.
Um, but if I promise people,then I better figure out how to
deliver on those.
Um it's a really powerfulframework.
Yeah.
And and then so like it leads toconversations about, you know,
what what do we need to stopdoing?
Like, so like innovation andimprovement aren't always just
(08:49):
about the new things that you'regoing to be doing.
It's it's sometimes about thethings that you're doing that
don't align with those promisesthat you need to stop doing.
Or ways that we need to supportthe educators who need to be
delivering on those promises sothat we can figure out how to
take some things off theirplates.
Yeah.
You know, if it's if it's apromise, then I better figure
out how to deliver on it.
(09:10):
Or I better call it somethingdifferent.
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Well, I love it.
I I think it's incredible and itmust have taken courage.
I'm I'm sure you're you're beingvery pleasant about this.
I can only imagine the kind ofbehind-the-scenes conversations
and and the work that it takesto really change culture this
way and and put this intopractice, right?
It sounds like this is what yourcommunity is experiencing, these
(09:33):
promises.
I'm sure you would say, andeveryone would say in your
community, not perfectlydelivered, but aspiring toward
these things.
And it's a noticeable differencewhen that's written down, it's
stated, it's out loud, it'slived or attempted to be lived
in the day-to-day.
So huge kudos.
I mean, if you live near EastHancock School District, give it
a look because it sounds like areally special place.
(09:54):
And I'm excited about it, evenbefore talking about
microschools and some of thesethings that I'm excited to talk
about.
So when you say stopping doingthings, do you have examples in
your mind?
Are there things that came upwhere it was like, well, here's
a barrier that's maybe doesn'tneed to be here, something we
could knock down?
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
So one of the early ones for us at Easter Hancock
was teacher evaluation.
So um we try to think a lotabout the purpose and and what's
the true purpose of the thingthat needs to be done?
And is it our purpose?
Like, are we literally justchecking a box?
And and sometimes that's thecase, and we just need to find
the most efficient way to getthat done.
And so we don't have to thinkabout it.
Or is there a real purpose?
(10:32):
And I think if we thought aboutwhat's the real purpose for
teacher evaluation, it's it'steacher improvement.
But the the challenge for us waswhen we ask our teachers, does
this make you better?
Like zero of them said yes.
And when we ask ouradministrators, do you enjoy
doing this?
zero of them said yes.
So we decided to reframe ourteacher evaluation model.
(10:54):
And we we don't we don't everhave a scenario at Eastern
Hancock where somebody goes intoa classroom and and gives a
teacher a number based onwhatever the performance was
that they saw during that time.
Our teacher growth model was allbuilt on teachers taking a look
at our instructional frameworkand setting goals, doing some
reflecting, and then settinggoals based on that.
(11:15):
And then they get their pointsand for the end of the year
evaluation score, just based ontheir willingness to have an
honest reflection, set goals andyou know, make progress towards
those goals.
So that was one of the thingsthat we needed to stop doing.
We needed to stop that sillychecking the box process for
teacher evaluation.
And then on top of that, bydoing that, it created an
(11:36):
environment where staff arenever afraid, like that.
I'm if I walk in theirclassroom, they know that I'm
not there to give them a number,which means that they're not
scared of whatever's going tohappen while we're in there
together.
Right.
Um, yeah, that's it.
That's the first thing thatcomes to mind of something we
had to stock.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
It's incredible.
I mean, it must have taken someguts to kind of change, change
your mind.
And I don't know, did you haveto convince anybody at the
school board or somebody that islooking at this and saying,
wait, well then how will we knowif these teachers are doing a
good job?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
So we're blessed with an incredible school board
that loves our educators andloves our community and they put
lots of trust in our leadershipteam to make the decisions that
are going to continue with theresults that we're getting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
George, I just got to say, you know, I work with
people that are strong leadersthat cultivate and foster a lot
of trust.
And, you know, you're you'resort of you're saying all of the
things, right?
Like deferring to the board andthe educators.
And it's it feels almost likemagic.
I mean, clearly you're you'redoing something right, and it
sounds like a very high trustenvironment where, yeah,
(12:38):
teachers are happy and they'reable to succeed.
And now that if you take awaysome of that existential fear,
which I think is in recentyears, is you know, school
choice continues to grow.
Parents are now a customer,we're not used to thinking that
way.
Uh, you know, what do you meanmake promises to the to the
families?
That's that's a lot.
And and yet to embrace all ofthat and say, wait, we can offer
(13:01):
something truly impressive thatpeople will will seek out,
they'll want to be here withthat choice that we've we've
given, we've decided parentsshould have, we can now listen
to them and and engage withoutfear of all the bad things that
I think really governs a lot ofthe debate and the discussion
out there, the the fear.
I think that's a it's just ahuge gift to to your community.
(13:23):
You guys are doing that.
So let's talk a little bit aboutinnovating.
I mean, I think you've had somerounds of this, but I
particularly want to get to thestory of this this idea of the
district hosting micro schools.
As you know, microschools are aphenomenon.
We're we've been part of it.
We've tried to work withdistricts, we have not been very
successful.
We've had some some examples ofreally innovative school leaders
(13:45):
who have worked with us, butoftentimes it's you know, it's
just for a combination ofreasons, it hasn't clicked.
And so I'm very intrigued by youstepping in and and your your
your staff and your team saying,let's do um, let's do micro
schools here at East Hancock.
So I really want to understandwhere the idea came from and how
you you put it into practice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Sure.
So um, you know, when you're 40%of your student bodies coming
from out of district, you youtry to be really intentional
about listening to families andum and and really watching your
enrollment really closely.
And and we noticed that agrowing number of our families
each year were choosing uh tohomeschool.
(14:29):
And um that reflects a nationaltrend that we're all all aware
of of a growing percentage of offamilies.
Um we decided that we wanted toinvite families into a
conversation, not like to try torecruit them to come back to sch
our school, but just to learnum, you know, what kind of
education were they looking forthat we weren't providing.
And in the end, you know, aftera year or so of of lots of
(14:50):
conversations, we learned thatthey weren't really interested
in homeschooling.
Some were, but like not all ofthem.
Yeah.
They were just looking forsomething different.
And in rural Indiana,especially, there's not another
option.
So there's there seems to be alike a continuum of choice, and
all with it they had the optionwere was the polar ends of the
(15:12):
continuum.
So the traditional public schoolor homeschool.
And there were there was noother options between the space.
So um that led to us having somealmost like design thinking
conversations with my boardaround, you know, what what if
we figured out how to step inand provide those spaces in
between?
And in Indiana, the way to toaccomplish that was through um a
(15:37):
charter.
We could have chartered a umstarted a charter school within
our district, um, which wouldallow us to offer sites within
our district boundaries, but wedecided to think a little bit
bigger.
So we got authorized by thestate charter board, and we got
authorized as IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is our
school name.
So it's a statewide school.
(15:58):
So I currently have two boardsthat I kind of work for.
I've got a 501c3 board where thecharter work falls within, and
then uh my local school boardserves obviously as my major
employer.
But those boards work together,they're collaborative but
separate.
So there's a five-member schoolboard, two of those board
members are on the micro schoolcollaborative board, and that
(16:18):
board is currently made up ofsix individuals.
So those two individuals are aminority of both boards, which
allows that those twoorganizations to work well
together, but not necessarily,you know, be the same governing
body.
So the Indiana MicroschoolCollaborative can launch
learning sites around the stateof Indiana, and and we're we've
launched one or we're planningto launch one here in the next
(16:41):
few weeks when school starts inour area.
I'm at a local campground thatkind of sits dormant throughout
the school year.
Our capacity as we got ratedopen was 50, and we've got 50
kids signed up and a waitinglist beyond that.
And then as we start to thinkabout the 26, 27 year and
beyond, we're we're planning tolaunch multiple learning sites.
(17:01):
And the way the collaborationworks is I'm learning that most
micro school founders are veryinterested in the education side
of doing school, but not so muchinterested in payroll and you
know the back office, you know,business management and that
kind of thing.
And I've got an office full ofpeople that are wonderful at
those things.
So our intention is for theEastern Hancock office to help
(17:22):
with that side and then supportmicro school founders as they
launch new sites all over thestate.
Um so we're we're really excitedabout what this could look like
um in lots of ways.
SPEAKER_02 (17:33):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So tell me a little bit moreabout this site, the location.
You said it's a camp.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
Yeah, so it's it's called Nameless Creek
Campground.
It's a youth camp.
Um that they're actually havingsummer camp there right now.
And um we'll be uh we'll we'llhave 50 kids on their campus, at
least 50, uh all school yearlong.
It's it's beautiful.
Uh kind of out in the middle ofnowhere.
Yeah.
(18:02):
Um on site that um are justideal.
You know, when we were when wewere first dreaming about what
this could look like, we wereenvisioning churches and and
that kind of stuff, which wouldbe incredible.
And and then this site, whichwe've we've kind of known about
for a while because it's in ourarea, but we just didn't really
put two and two together thatthis could be the site that we
were looking for, and it's it'sit's truly ideal.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
So the parents are thrilled.
They've got outdoor activities,you've got nature around, but
there's also buildings that areamenable to sitting down and
getting some learning done.
What else is different aboutthis micro school relative to
um, and by the way, 50, we callthat a mini school.
We we typically think of that asa little bigger, but but I don't
know.
Tell me a little bit about themodel and how you're thinking
(18:46):
about education.
Like if I'm a parent, why am Ichoosing this versus one of the
great schools where I'm promisedjoy and connection and and all
the other things?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Yeah.
And well, it's been reallyinteresting watching where the
enrollments are coming from.
And very few of them are comingfrom Eastern Hancock.
They're, you know, families thatwere choosing homeschool or
choosing an online virtualschool is where the majority of
the kids are coming from.
So as we were dreaming, wereally struggled with what grade
levels first.
Like, how do you grow this?
(19:16):
And as we talked to families, werealized that that most of them
weren't interested in kid-by-kidchoices.
They wanted to make a familychoice.
And once you involve four orfive families, you've kind of
got the continuum of education.
So we wanted to our first sitesK through 12.
So we'll have while we'recalling it one site, one micro
school for lack of better words.
(19:38):
So there's it's the there'smultiple buildings and plenty of
space to to spread those sitesout, and we'll have multiple
teachers, multiple grown-upsthere to support the learning.
But you know, that basic idea iskids are doing lots of hands-on
learning, you know, working attheir own pace, multi-age
classrooms, you know, the thekind of things, Kelly, that you
(19:59):
and your audience are veryfamiliar with.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I'm I'm really excited tohear that.
I think the idea of a smallschool in an interesting place
is already exciting and that canbe convenient for parents and
they like the extracurricularassociations or maybe just the
environment, right?
The safety of it.
There, my kids love being here.
We've chosen adults that areexpert at cultivating connection
(20:23):
and things like that.
So you you're already in a goodspot.
But it it does feel like amissing opportunity.
And sometimes I'll run intothese where it's like, okay, we
got 10 of us and we're mixed ageor whatever, but everyone sit
down and we're going to do thislesson and you guys listen to
me.
You know, it's uh it's a greatopportunity to personalize this
to help kids take ownership.
And, you know, we believe thatthat that really unlocks this uh
(20:45):
passion, this love of learningthat's just different than what
I experienced, even though I wasgood at school.
I did not grow up loving it orbeing particularly happy to be
there, you know.
I just sort of went through themotions.
So I think that's it's beautifulthat you've taken that
opportunity.
And I'm excited to see what whatcomes of it.
Incredible that you got fullright off the bat.
So you either have greatmarketing or it's just a really
(21:08):
desperate need in your communityfor options.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
Yeah.
Uh we we're really excited, youknow, from a change management
and a leadership standpoint, youknow, we've you know, we're
we're on this relentless pursuitfrom the inside of shifting a
traditional building to, youknow, be deliver on those
promises as as much as wepossibly can.
And that's a process that takesa while.
(21:32):
I mean, we think from uh thereif you can plant something
that's proximately close enoughthat you can almost see, it
gives you something to to lookat and learn from.
And and our best hope is thatEastern Hancock can learn from
those organizations that arethat are popping up and and vice
versa.
That there are there are thingsthat are happening at Eastern
Hancock that probably thosemicro sites could learn from and
(21:56):
and use as they they grow.
And that so it's Indianmicroschool collaborative, and
the micro school word is ispretty important, but the
collaborative piece of that isalso extremely important because
I would imagine that the life ofa micro school founder could be
pretty lonely.
Yeah.
Like the idea of having anetwork of other microschool
(22:16):
founders that you can learn fromand lead with would be pretty
powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Yeah, I think it's maybe my bias.
I came into this with I and youknow, and I think you mentioned
a lot of people are strong onthe education, weak on the
business.
I was maybe stronger on thebusiness in tech.
I had never been a teacherbefore when I started a
microschool in my house, uh,now, you know, seven, eight
years ago.
So getting to that point whereum where it's like, okay, I'm
(22:42):
gonna do this.
I really felt like, man, peopleare gonna need a lot of help on,
you know, the resources,curriculum, the learning model,
and the business side, you know,how to enroll kids.
And we got good at all of that.
And then I'll I'll go tell it topeople so excited.
Like we've helped a thousandpeople start microschools and
I'll have this conversationwhere it's like, look at all
these things we've built foryou.
And then they're like, yeah, butand then I'll show them our
(23:03):
community and it's literallyjust pull it up.
Like there's this constantdiscussion of people talking to
each other, and here's like thetraining and how to engage and
what happens.
And people see that and they'relike, Oh, I'm I'm not alone.
And I think your intuition isabsolutely right that it it can
feel it can feel like anisolating, lonely thing, and and
you're doing somethingdifferent, and people are
looking at you funny in yourcommunity, and so all of a
(23:25):
sudden now it's like I'm notweird.
There's lots of smart peopledoing this, and I'm part of a
movement or a group.
So I love the idea of thecollaborative and sharing
resources.
I mean, in fact, I want to helphowever I can.
I mean, I love what you guys aredoing and would love to see this
grow.
Yeah.
So what tell me a little bitabout the educators?
How did you find the actualadults that will be on on site?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Yeah, the the first one actually came from within
Eastern Hancock.
She's um a special educator thatum was just kind of interested
in doing something different.
Also was one of those peoplethat had leadership attributes
that kind of oozed out of herthat, but didn't really want to
be a principal.
So when this opportunity came,she um, you know, was was really
(24:13):
interested.
And then the other ones, theother hires that were in the
process of making right now havecome from within.
And we're learning that a lot ofthe families that were choosing
to think differently about theirown kids' education were
educators themselves.
And so the rest of them areeither coming from certified
educators or non-certifiedemployees who just are
interested in coming and helpingout.
(24:34):
You know, we did very little jobposting outside of the community
of people that have signed up tobe a part of the conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
Wow.
That's actually a reallyexciting phenomenon.
I keep finding these people too.
I they I think they're kind ofquietly existing in the
wilderness.
They don't really have a placein the mainstream.
I mean, they'll do, they'reoften good at their jobs, but
they have this feeling of, youknow, what if we really shook
things up or did it differently?
We could, we could hit, youknow, strike a much larger
(25:01):
impact and activate some ofthese what you call
non-cognitive benefits of of areal true learning environment.
Those people are great.
And and when they see, oh, I canactually make the school of my
dreams like really do it and notjust do it eventually, but do it
now, you know, I think that'sthe difference between
microschools and and some of theolder rounds.
(25:22):
Like charter schools wereawesome, and you saw people like
that step up, but it's anenormous lift, you know, to
prepare a charter applicationand get the building and get
everything off the ground withmulti-million dollars.
And so it takes years and lotsof money, and only a few of them
get to do it.
So for people that maybe don'twant to jump that hurdle or
can't jump that hurdle, um,sounds like you're finding those
(25:43):
folks right in your in yourcommunity.
And I love people ask me a lot,you know, who are the people
that start microschools?
It's like, are they parents orare they educators?
It's increasingly both.
They're uh, you know, they theythey taught forever, they're
really strong educators, butthey also are asking the hard
questions, what do I want for mychild?
And that can lead to potentiallydifferent outcomes.
(26:04):
So this is exciting, George.
I I can't wait to see how thisgoes.
And I need to get out there andvisit you guys and see this this
beautiful camp.
What uh what do you do besidesthe core academics?
I mean, do you have a one of thethings that a school district is
is core academic, but thenthere's all these extra, you
know, resources, programs,school lunches.
(26:24):
I mean, school is so manythings.
How have you thought about allof that in the you know, in this
world?
I didn't realize you werecompletely legally separate.
So maybe you don't do it.
We don't do any of those things.
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
So yeah.
Well, um, so the answer to thatis easier this year than what it
might be next year, as we'rethinking about launching sites
all over.
Right now we're, you know, we'reclose to Eastern Hancock.
So we're not providingtransportation to and from the
building in the in the morningand the afternoon.
But things like school lunchesand those kind of things we can
(26:55):
we can work on because we'rewe're close if we need to.
Amazing.
But you're right, like there area lot of ins and outs of of
school that you kind of take forgranted if you've, you know,
like like I said at the verybeginning of this, I've lived on
the school calendar my entirelife.
And, you know, sometimes whenthat's the case, you you forget
all the things that happenwithin a within the Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
People will say, you know, they'll they'll use the
word factory sometimes and itit's meant as a derogatory, you
know, attack, but factoriesproduce a lot.
And I think that's something weforget is there's we we often
have to talk to people about thetrade-offs, you know.
Does this microschool have abaseball team that competes in
some sort of league?
Like, no, it doesn't.
(27:39):
There's 10 kids in thismicroschool.
Now there people, the communitygets together and they come up
with things and there's clubsports.
I mean, thankfully it's it's notthe end of the world, and
parents still have to figure itout.
But yeah, that's amazing thatyou're able to couple some of
that in and participate, sort oflike weave it into a uh the
overall school experience thatyou guys are used to providing
(28:00):
with your your district schools.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Yeah, it's been uh, you know, whether or not to
provide all of those differentkinds of things has been um, you
know, an ongoing conversation.
And this being the first year,we try to keep things as simple
as we possibly can.
Nice, you know, and we'refocusing a lot on the the
academics and the um obviouslythe non-academic type of skills
(28:24):
as well.
And we're really we're reallythinking hard about the school
day mostly.
And then, you know, in the nextfew years or so, we might have
some time and capacity to thinkabout things that are happening
beyond the school day.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Love it.
Well, I'm excited to read thepapers.
Hopefully, you publish somethingabout all of this and just share
everything you're learningbecause it's it's truly
innovative.
I mean, there's not a lot ofthis happening um, you know,
from in from the inside, so tospeak.
And it's really exciting thatyou guys are doing it.
Let's shift gears a little bit,George, just for our last few
minutes here.
Would love to just kind of takesome of the you're a humble guy,
(28:58):
you're not gonna feelcomfortable with this, but some
of the learnings and insightsthat you've um distilled through
through this experience, take amoment and and think of it as
you're also a helpful person.
And so think of it as there arepeople listening to this right
now in similar professions toyou involved, either on a school
board or as an administrator orprincipal or a teacher that are,
(29:20):
you know, part of thetraditional education system.
And they're thinking, wow, thisreally sounds awesome.
Like I would love to get thisoff the ground, but you know,
very quickly there's a voice intheir head that just says, No
way, it's impossible, you know,brick wall.
Give them, yeah, give them yourbest sort of yeah, I don't know,
pep talkslash best practices,things that you've figured out
(29:42):
as you've you've taken this on.
SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
I don't know if it's makes pep talk criteria, but
I've never so in my career I'venever done anything that has led
to so much imposter syndrome.
Just because, you know, I I knowhow to be a superintendent.
I know how to you know do thejob of school as we know it but
(30:05):
as we've talked to families whoare are wanting to make
decisions for their kids therecomes a point where I we had to
make a decision to try to be apart of the solution.
And so I I think you know I Iknow I'm blessed.
I've got a board that's verysupportive that makes being
(30:27):
courageous easier than some ofmy colleagues probably have
because I know I've got I've gota extended contract and I've got
tremendous support from myschool board and my livelihood
is not at risk by making thisdecision.
But I think it's just the Idon't know find find the people
that are crazy enough to dreamwith you.
So for me, we've got I've got afriend who's on the state school
(30:48):
board he's also on our board nownamed Scott Bess.
I've got a friend named Kim Rearwho works really closely with
Scott that you know the three ofus did lots of dreaming about
what this could look like beforewe actually spun it up.
I've got a couple of boardmembers that were really really
interested in helping me thinkabout you know the business side
of this they're not educatorsbut they're business people and
(31:09):
I think find the people who areyou know just maybe as as crazy
as you are and would beinterested in and joining those
conversations and you know Iwould invite anybody that would
meet that criteria to you knowthey can reach out to me
anytime.
I'm I'm happy to chat withanybody who wants to join in
these conversations.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
It's amazing.
Okay so just to spit back what Ijust heard you say expect
imposter syndrome that's comingI I love that advice because
it's so accurate and I think itfor whatever reason imposter
syndrome surprises us you knowwhen it when it gets there we
assume that it must meansomething terrible about us and
and the actual likelihood ofthis it's coming you're gonna
(31:49):
feel that way so just know it'scoming.
And then it's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Kelly D just you know do you think maybe that
comes from like we're buildingsomething and I've got 50
parents plus signing up trustingme.
So then like then a little bitof me thinking like wait do they
know they're trusting like me?
Like I don't know that I feelready to earn that trust and I
think that's where it comes fromand maybe the confidence will
(32:13):
happen September when theschool's actually open and
running it will.
SPEAKER_02 (32:17):
I mean and that absolutely happens this is what
what's crazy and I I'll tellthis story sometimes I'm
obsessed with the Wrightbrothers Orville and Wilbur not
too far away from you guys andin Ohio they've got this bike
shop and they've got this dreamof flying like birds you know
how can we do this?
So they go to North Carolinabecause of the wind they're on a
train it's these long trips andthey're launching these gliders
(32:39):
and crashing them like yearafter year they're just it's
like sort of working sort of notthey're kind of just stumbling
along but there's over all ofthose crashes and flights
they're building this I don'tknow I don't want to call it
swagger.
I don't know if it was swaggereven yet but it it's this sense
of like well we at least knowhow to get this far off the
ground and and do this thing andand it's messy and it's not it
(33:02):
doesn't feel remarkable at all.
They're reading in the newspaperat the time about big money
projects that were happeningover in in Washington DC that
were doing great yet supposedlydoing great but those guys they
were spending all the money andand then they had this like
spectacular crash justdisastrous like it didn't work
at all.
Meanwhile just one flight afteranother they're learning a
little bit at a time and and thething that they had was just the
(33:24):
gumption to just keep doing itlike to do it in the first place
and keep doing it.
It puts you in a specialcategory.
So you believe like oh thoseguys are the real ones they have
their Smithsonians involved andet cetera but you know I
meanwhile I'm actually doingthese glider flights and there
was this year I know this isturning into a longer story but
there was this year aftermultiple years of gliders where
(33:48):
I think it was I'm trying toremember if it was Orville or
Wilbur that like pushed it theyjust said look there's these
papers that have been publishedand these scientists there's
data and there's the science offlight you know that was like
and I'm putting it in ironicquotes on purpose because the it
was all so new it turned out tobe just total hogwash like it
was it was bogus.
(34:08):
But they read all of theliterature and they reworked all
of their designs to sort ofalign with conventional wisdom
of the time they went back withtheir their new and improved you
know we've we've now readeverything we've got the science
of flight and we go to KittyHawk again and it's just a
disaster.
It was their worst season evernothing worked they've got this
(34:29):
just pile of wreckage basicallythat they're bringing back on
the train to to Ohio and they'relike what just happened like why
did that yeah and and I thinkthe idea the reason for imposter
syndrome is we have this sensethat there's this data backed
tried and true proven thing thatwe know works or whatever.
And and I I guess there's peoplelike me and I think you're one
(34:51):
of these people although I don'twant to get you in trouble with
your board if they're listeningto this that are a little
suspicious of that narrative,right?
It's like, sure we've been doingit this way, but are we sure
that it works, especially whenyou look for maybe some
different outcomes like well Imean there's obvious like nape
scores and reading and math andlike those things don't seem to
be working.
But then you also have like dokids like being here?
(35:14):
Do they is joy even a factor inany of this and should it be?
Are they prepared for life?
I mean you can hear throughoutyour story like you sort of
implicitly question that if notreject you know some of those
assumptions.
But they're still going to belike so embedded in your brain
and I'm saying this now to thepeople listening, you're gonna
believe that like those peoplehave it.
(35:34):
They've got their answersthey've got it figured out and
what could I possibly all I'vedone is sat with kids face to
face for hundreds or thousandsof hours right like that's you
know you know something becauseyou've done that.
You've it feels like crashingairplanes or gliders when you've
spent all that time trying tohelp kids become learners.
But yeah I think I think it's aninteresting not that you asked
(35:56):
me for this sermon but it's aninteresting phenomenon because
it happens over and over againwe think okay there's the the
real truth there's the sciencethere's the real you know and
I'm fake I'm an imposter I can'tdo this and so your brain's
going to play tricks on you.
I don't know if any of thatresonates with you.
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
For sure does I think the other like I don't
know you know we're small atEastern Hancock.
I I get to meet I meet everysingle junior and senior every
single year and talk to themabout you know what you're
playing after high school whatare we doing to prepare you for
that who's your go-to personaround here and when you're that
small you get to know individualkids and so when that happens
(36:33):
you see which kids that you knowwe to we talk about the word
works often and sometimes worksmeans enough kids for the grown
ups not to feel bad about butlike I dream that we can create
a system that works for all ofthem like that we can find a way
so the vision of IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is
that every single kid in Indianashould get to go to a school
that feels like it was designedjust for them.
(36:55):
And and I think that's that'sthe that's the dream you know
and and and I think I think ifwe're going to achieve that
dream my job's not to just plana bunch of microschools.
My my job's to be a big enoughinfluence that I'm influencing
the way that school's doneinside the walls that are
already established as well.
And you know that's that's ourdream.
(37:16):
And and I think impostersyndrome comes when your dreams
are so big that they scare you.
And I think that's that's alsotrue that it's okay.
Like I think that's probablytrue of the Wright brothers that
their dreams were so big thatthey scared them.
SPEAKER_02 (37:31):
And thank you for sharing that George it's a
sacred thing to hear you kind ofopen up your heart and share
that dream and it's it's apowerful one.
It's it it gets me excited.
So I know that there are peoplein your world but beyond well
beyond the scope of peopleyou've even met that are hearing
that and saying yes like I I'mmotivated by that dream, by that
vision.
Other things I heard you say,find your tribe I love that
(37:54):
advice so building up this possecollaboration, I think you did
that twice.
You did that once by reallylistening which is just such a
breath of fresh air in I think aworld where it's too easy to
sort of just go with emotion tolisten to parents to take them
seriously engage with the peopleleaving for homeschool and say,
(38:14):
hey like just tell me about itlike what are you doing and and
why and what are you lookingfor?
And you learn so much byengaging that way.
So you're building your tribeand your community but the other
thing you did was you know youmentioned some of their names
some of these folks that are onboards with you and these are
big picture people that arewilling to share a dream like
that and and feel motivated.
So I agree that you're lucky Ialso think that that never could
(38:37):
have happened if you hadn'tstarted with the dream and
started talking about it.
So if you're out there andyou've got a dream you you maybe
think it's not worthy of sharingplease share it.
You know talk to people listenand refine your dream and then
and then share your dream andand I think there's so much that
can can come from that.
So that's incredible as well.
Any other advice as we wrap thisup George I think just do it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
It's gonna take all of us to do it.
If the kind of person that'slistening to your podcast it's
probably the kind of personthat's already thinking about
doing something and they justneed to get going.
SPEAKER_02 (39:12):
Love it.
Well I wish I could spend moretime with you and I definitely
wish I could come visit thecamp.
I I want to see this this centerand and visit your microschools.
So thank you for the work you'redoing.
Thanks for taking some time totalk to us about it and and
share this.
And we'll put contactinformation about the
collaborative in our show notesso if anybody's interested in
kind of learning more aboutGeorge and the work they're
(39:32):
doing in Indiana and andhopefully far beyond.
Thanks George thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
The Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy to startand run an amazing microschool
based on all the ideas we talkabout here on the Kindled
Podcast.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media at PrendaLearn and
if you'd like more informationabout starting a microschool
just go to prenda.com.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep Kindling
I dream that we can create a system that works for
(00:02):
all of them.
So the vision of IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is
that every single kid in Indianashould get to go to a school
that feels like it was designedjust for them.
And you know, that's that's ourdream.
And and I think impostersyndrome comes when your dreams
are so big that they scare you.
SPEAKER_02 (00:17):
Hi, and welcome back to the Prenda Podcast.
I'm Kelly Smith, your host fortoday, and we'll be talking to
Dr.
George Philhour, who's thesuperintendent at Eastern
Hancock Schools in Indiana.
He has a bachelor's inelementary and special ed from
Cardinal Strait University,Master's in Instructional
Leadership from University ofIndianapolis, and an education
science and PhD from IndianaState University.
(00:40):
But in addition to these degreesand backgrounds and his deep
experience in education, Georgehas a big dream.
He envisions a time when allstudents and staff wake up
excited to go to school everyday.
He wants kids to feel like theschool they attend was designed
for them.
And as part of that, he hascreated the Indiana Microschool
Collaborative.
(01:01):
We'll be talking to him aboutmicroschools, about innovating
in education generally, howinnovation can be a dirty word
in education circles sometimes,changing culture, making
promises to families.
I think you're really going tolove this conversation and
excited to share GeorgePhilhauer with you.
George Philhauer from Indiana,welcome to the podcast.
(01:24):
Thanks for having me.
George, I've been lookingforward to this conversation.
Let's start by just introducingour listeners to you and who you
are.
You've been an educator for awhile now.
And can you kind of give your,you know, a summary of your
professional background?
I'd love for people to know whothey're listening to.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Sure.
I'm George Philhour.
Like you said, I'm thesuperintendent at Eastern
Hancock Schools.
We're a small rural districtjust east out just outside of
Indianapolis.
So if you've ever been toIndianapolis and you've taken
Interstate 70 towards Ohio, youcan literally see our district
from the interstate.
However, we're rural enough, youcan't really get there from
(02:02):
there.
So we're kind of out in themiddle of nowhere.
Okay.
40% students come to us bychoice.
So in Indiana, it's openenrollment.
Kids can go to school prettymuch wherever they want.
And 40% of our families drive toour district from out of
district.
Prior to being at EasternHancock, I was at Western Wayne
Schools, which is which iscloser to that Ohio area.
I was superintendent for thelast two of the 13 years that I
(02:26):
was there.
When I was a teacher, I was aspecial education teacher.
And yeah, I've, you know, justbeen an educator my whole life.
I've lived my whole lifeaccording to the school
calendar.
I've never lived a year, youknow, since I was five years old
that was not a part of theschool calendar.
So just a lifelong educator.
And again, couldn't be moreexcited to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yeah, a couple things kind of standing out as
you kind of tell your story.
One, nobody does special ed inparticular.
Really, no one does education atall without really caring a lot
about kids.
So that's coming through in theway you're you're talking about
your background.
And I appreciate that.
The other thing is isinnovation.
And I think, you know, some somepeople don't think of school
districts as being innovators.
(03:09):
I think this this point that yousay 40% coming to East Hancock
School District from, I'mguessing from the city.
I mean, are they driving outfrom Indianapolis or coming from
other places?
I mean, that's that'sinteresting.
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Yeah, mostly not Indianapolis.
Um we're 40 minutes fromIndianapolis, so that would be
pretty good drive to get toschool, uh, at least you know,
from where we are.
Um but they come from theneighboring districts that yeah,
yeah, we we're pretty proud ofof what we do.
Um, you know, I've I've been atEastern Hancock for four years.
It was a pretty special placebefore I got there, but we we
(03:45):
kind of define the work that wedo within four promises that are
outlined in our strategic plan.
So promise number one for us isjoy, just the idea that we want
to think every day, what do wedo to make these people want to
be at this place?
I think the world of educationneeds some intentional joy.
If we don't, we just payattention to the gravity of life
around us.
It's not really pulling ustowards a place of joy, so it's
(04:06):
got to be intentional.
So we do lots of little thingsto bring joy to life.
Um, next week we actually have aconference at Eastern Hancock
called Joy Jam, where educatorscome from across the country and
join us for two days of fun andum great learning.
Promise number two for us is wecall it connection.
It's just the idea that everyoneshould feel known by name,
strength, interest, futurehopes, and dreams and needs.
(04:27):
And then we feel like if we cancreate a place where everybody
feels known that like that way,that it's pretty special.
Promise number three is growth.
Obviously, we're school, so wewant everybody learning new
things every day that they willremember, which sounds really
simple unless you've ever taughtanything ever, and you know that
it's it's way more complicatedthan that.
And then promise number four, wecall success, and it's just the
(04:48):
idea that it's our reminder thatour our job's not to produce a
bunch of academically proficientkids.
It's it's we want kids that areconfident and excited about that
Monday after graduation.
So we really work hard to blendwhat's next with what's
happening now.
And so it's not a work-basedlearning and college on campus
and and those kinds of thingsthat are happening.
(05:08):
And so everything that that wedo at Easter Hancock fills
through the filter of those fourpromises.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
Oh.
Can I just pause and say havingpromises, presumably promises to
the students and to theirparents, which is already put
you in a pretty unique category.
I mean, I work with, you know,educators.
I think there's a lot ofemphasis on compliance, on, you
know, checking boxes for thestate, even the portrait of the
graduate work that I think hasbecome pretty popular is often
(05:36):
oriented toward maybe a promiseto society in general or to
taxpayers.
But for you to go directly toyour community and and it's
showing, right?
40% of your kids are coming fromother places.
They're intentionally choosingthis because they believe your
promise and and you're doing it.
So did were you were you theinitiator of that or did you
(05:57):
inherit these four promises?
How did that all come comeabout?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
When I was hired by my school board, one of the
early charges was was to createa strategic plan.
And you described us asinnovative and nothing will
scare people away more than theword innovation.
So we don't try to talk aboutthat.
We we try to talk about thecommon sense things that we want
to do to get better.
And so, you know, jointconnection, growth, and success
(06:20):
are are are things that wedefinitely wanted to be aspire
towards, but they're alsodescriptors of the things that
were true about our communitythat we were already pretty
proud of.
Like when we're operating at ourbest, those are four things that
we're doing really, really well.
But they're also, you know,they're things that we'll never
quite achieve, you know, andyeah, but um definitely
(06:42):
aspirational promises.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
I think everybody that enters education at some
point wants those things, right?
They want to connect, they wantto help deliver joy and ignite
this love of learning.
They want growth to happen,obviously.
I think they want success, whichyou could map to real world
meaning and and purpose.
So you you put these promisesout there, but it runs into a
brick wall in some cases,especially when it comes to
(07:07):
checking boxes and compliance.
Some of these things that we'vebeen talking about.
Did you have any issues with youknow working with your existing
faculty, staff, teachers, justto say, like, look, we're gonna
make these promises?
I mean, I would imaginesomebody, even a
well-intentioned person, saying,Hey, George, like, I'm sorry,
but I'm already overstretched.
I I can't make those promises.
(07:27):
I can't do that.
You know, is is that was that aa journey for you guys, or did
it, you know, just sort ofhappen easily?
SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
Yeah, I I don't know.
I don't know that we havereached much resistance at all.
I mean, it's pretty hard toargue with joy, right?
Like if you if somebody asksyou, Kelly, hey, do you want
more joy or less joy?
Like you're probably going tochoose more.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Um, I I've heard the word, the phrase unfunded
mandate bantied about, right?
I mean, do you get into thatsort of that would be the
opposition?
It's not that this is a badgoal.
It's just how am I supposed todo that?
Uh, you're already giving me somany other things that I have to
do, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, true.
So I think we use that wordinnovation, and and really I
like to think about it as moreof a relentless pursuit toward
towards something.
And so when when when that's thegoal, then how we respond when
we come up against barriers likethat are it's different than
like you don't just say no, youtry to figure out that's why we
(08:26):
call them promises.
You know, if I say something's apriority, I got lots of
priorities that I don't get toever.
Um, but if I promise people,then I better figure out how to
deliver on those.
Um it's a really powerfulframework.
Yeah.
And and then so like it leads toconversations about, you know,
what what do we need to stopdoing?
Like, so like innovation andimprovement aren't always just
(08:49):
about the new things that you'regoing to be doing.
It's it's sometimes about thethings that you're doing that
don't align with those promisesthat you need to stop doing.
Or ways that we need to supportthe educators who need to be
delivering on those promises sothat we can figure out how to
take some things off theirplates.
Yeah.
You know, if it's if it's apromise, then I better figure
out how to deliver on it.
(09:10):
Or I better call it somethingdifferent.
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Well, I love it.
I I think it's incredible and itmust have taken courage.
I'm I'm sure you're you're beingvery pleasant about this.
I can only imagine the kind ofbehind-the-scenes conversations
and and the work that it takesto really change culture this
way and and put this intopractice, right?
It sounds like this is what yourcommunity is experiencing, these
(09:33):
promises.
I'm sure you would say, andeveryone would say in your
community, not perfectlydelivered, but aspiring toward
these things.
And it's a noticeable differencewhen that's written down, it's
stated, it's out loud, it'slived or attempted to be lived
in the day-to-day.
So huge kudos.
I mean, if you live near EastHancock School District, give it
a look because it sounds like areally special place.
(09:54):
And I'm excited about it, evenbefore talking about
microschools and some of thesethings that I'm excited to talk
about.
So when you say stopping doingthings, do you have examples in
your mind?
Are there things that came upwhere it was like, well, here's
a barrier that's maybe doesn'tneed to be here, something we
could knock down?
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
So one of the early ones for us at Easter Hancock
was teacher evaluation.
So um we try to think a lotabout the purpose and and what's
the true purpose of the thingthat needs to be done?
And is it our purpose?
Like, are we literally justchecking a box?
And and sometimes that's thecase, and we just need to find
the most efficient way to getthat done.
And so we don't have to thinkabout it.
Or is there a real purpose?
(10:32):
And I think if we thought aboutwhat's the real purpose for
teacher evaluation, it's it'steacher improvement.
But the the challenge for us waswhen we ask our teachers, does
this make you better?
Like zero of them said yes.
And when we ask ouradministrators, do you enjoy
doing this?
zero of them said yes.
So we decided to reframe ourteacher evaluation model.
(10:54):
And we we don't we don't everhave a scenario at Eastern
Hancock where somebody goes intoa classroom and and gives a
teacher a number based onwhatever the performance was
that they saw during that time.
Our teacher growth model was allbuilt on teachers taking a look
at our instructional frameworkand setting goals, doing some
reflecting, and then settinggoals based on that.
(11:15):
And then they get their pointsand for the end of the year
evaluation score, just based ontheir willingness to have an
honest reflection, set goals andyou know, make progress towards
those goals.
So that was one of the thingsthat we needed to stop doing.
We needed to stop that sillychecking the box process for
teacher evaluation.
And then on top of that, bydoing that, it created an
(11:36):
environment where staff arenever afraid, like that.
I'm if I walk in theirclassroom, they know that I'm
not there to give them a number,which means that they're not
scared of whatever's going tohappen while we're in there
together.
Right.
Um, yeah, that's it.
That's the first thing thatcomes to mind of something we
had to stock.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
It's incredible.
I mean, it must have taken someguts to kind of change, change
your mind.
And I don't know, did you haveto convince anybody at the
school board or somebody that islooking at this and saying,
wait, well then how will we knowif these teachers are doing a
good job?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
So we're blessed with an incredible school board
that loves our educators andloves our community and they put
lots of trust in our leadershipteam to make the decisions that
are going to continue with theresults that we're getting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
George, I just got to say, you know, I work with
people that are strong leadersthat cultivate and foster a lot
of trust.
And, you know, you're you'resort of you're saying all of the
things, right?
Like deferring to the board andthe educators.
And it's it feels almost likemagic.
I mean, clearly you're you'redoing something right, and it
sounds like a very high trustenvironment where, yeah,
(12:38):
teachers are happy and they'reable to succeed.
And now that if you take awaysome of that existential fear,
which I think is in recentyears, is you know, school
choice continues to grow.
Parents are now a customer,we're not used to thinking that
way.
Uh, you know, what do you meanmake promises to the to the
families?
That's that's a lot.
And and yet to embrace all ofthat and say, wait, we can offer
(13:01):
something truly impressive thatpeople will will seek out,
they'll want to be here withthat choice that we've we've
given, we've decided parentsshould have, we can now listen
to them and and engage withoutfear of all the bad things that
I think really governs a lot ofthe debate and the discussion
out there, the the fear.
I think that's a it's just ahuge gift to to your community.
(13:23):
You guys are doing that.
So let's talk a little bit aboutinnovating.
I mean, I think you've had somerounds of this, but I
particularly want to get to thestory of this this idea of the
district hosting micro schools.
As you know, microschools are aphenomenon.
We're we've been part of it.
We've tried to work withdistricts, we have not been very
successful.
We've had some some examples ofreally innovative school leaders
(13:45):
who have worked with us, butoftentimes it's you know, it's
just for a combination ofreasons, it hasn't clicked.
And so I'm very intrigued by youstepping in and and your your
your staff and your team saying,let's do um, let's do micro
schools here at East Hancock.
So I really want to understandwhere the idea came from and how
you you put it into practice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Sure.
So um, you know, when you're 40%of your student bodies coming
from out of district, you youtry to be really intentional
about listening to families andum and and really watching your
enrollment really closely.
And and we noticed that agrowing number of our families
each year were choosing uh tohomeschool.
(14:29):
And um that reflects a nationaltrend that we're all all aware
of of a growing percentage of offamilies.
Um we decided that we wanted toinvite families into a
conversation, not like to try torecruit them to come back to sch
our school, but just to learnum, you know, what kind of
education were they looking forthat we weren't providing.
And in the end, you know, aftera year or so of of lots of
(14:50):
conversations, we learned thatthey weren't really interested
in homeschooling.
Some were, but like not all ofthem.
Yeah.
They were just looking forsomething different.
And in rural Indiana,especially, there's not another
option.
So there's there seems to be alike a continuum of choice, and
all with it they had the optionwere was the polar ends of the
(15:12):
continuum.
So the traditional public schoolor homeschool.
And there were there was noother options between the space.
So um that led to us having somealmost like design thinking
conversations with my boardaround, you know, what what if
we figured out how to step inand provide those spaces in
between?
And in Indiana, the way to toaccomplish that was through um a
(15:37):
charter.
We could have chartered a umstarted a charter school within
our district, um, which wouldallow us to offer sites within
our district boundaries, but wedecided to think a little bit
bigger.
So we got authorized by thestate charter board, and we got
authorized as IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is our
school name.
So it's a statewide school.
(15:58):
So I currently have two boardsthat I kind of work for.
I've got a 501c3 board where thecharter work falls within, and
then uh my local school boardserves obviously as my major
employer.
But those boards work together,they're collaborative but
separate.
So there's a five-member schoolboard, two of those board
members are on the micro schoolcollaborative board, and that
(16:18):
board is currently made up ofsix individuals.
So those two individuals are aminority of both boards, which
allows that those twoorganizations to work well
together, but not necessarily,you know, be the same governing
body.
So the Indiana MicroschoolCollaborative can launch
learning sites around the stateof Indiana, and and we're we've
launched one or we're planningto launch one here in the next
(16:41):
few weeks when school starts inour area.
I'm at a local campground thatkind of sits dormant throughout
the school year.
Our capacity as we got ratedopen was 50, and we've got 50
kids signed up and a waitinglist beyond that.
And then as we start to thinkabout the 26, 27 year and
beyond, we're we're planning tolaunch multiple learning sites.
(17:01):
And the way the collaborationworks is I'm learning that most
micro school founders are veryinterested in the education side
of doing school, but not so muchinterested in payroll and you
know the back office, you know,business management and that
kind of thing.
And I've got an office full ofpeople that are wonderful at
those things.
So our intention is for theEastern Hancock office to help
(17:22):
with that side and then supportmicro school founders as they
launch new sites all over thestate.
Um so we're we're really excitedabout what this could look like
um in lots of ways.
SPEAKER_02 (17:33):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So tell me a little bit moreabout this site, the location.
You said it's a camp.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
Yeah, so it's it's called Nameless Creek
Campground.
It's a youth camp.
Um that they're actually havingsummer camp there right now.
And um we'll be uh we'll we'llhave 50 kids on their campus, at
least 50, uh all school yearlong.
It's it's beautiful.
Uh kind of out in the middle ofnowhere.
Yeah.
(18:02):
Um on site that um are justideal.
You know, when we were when wewere first dreaming about what
this could look like, we wereenvisioning churches and and
that kind of stuff, which wouldbe incredible.
And and then this site, whichwe've we've kind of known about
for a while because it's in ourarea, but we just didn't really
put two and two together thatthis could be the site that we
were looking for, and it's it'sit's truly ideal.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
So the parents are thrilled.
They've got outdoor activities,you've got nature around, but
there's also buildings that areamenable to sitting down and
getting some learning done.
What else is different aboutthis micro school relative to
um, and by the way, 50, we callthat a mini school.
We we typically think of that asa little bigger, but but I don't
know.
Tell me a little bit about themodel and how you're thinking
(18:46):
about education.
Like if I'm a parent, why am Ichoosing this versus one of the
great schools where I'm promisedjoy and connection and and all
the other things?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Yeah.
And well, it's been reallyinteresting watching where the
enrollments are coming from.
And very few of them are comingfrom Eastern Hancock.
They're, you know, families thatwere choosing homeschool or
choosing an online virtualschool is where the majority of
the kids are coming from.
So as we were dreaming, wereally struggled with what grade
levels first.
Like, how do you grow this?
(19:16):
And as we talked to families, werealized that that most of them
weren't interested in kid-by-kidchoices.
They wanted to make a familychoice.
And once you involve four orfive families, you've kind of
got the continuum of education.
So we wanted to our first sitesK through 12.
So we'll have while we'recalling it one site, one micro
school for lack of better words.
(19:38):
So there's it's the there'smultiple buildings and plenty of
space to to spread those sitesout, and we'll have multiple
teachers, multiple grown-upsthere to support the learning.
But you know, that basic idea iskids are doing lots of hands-on
learning, you know, working attheir own pace, multi-age
classrooms, you know, the thekind of things, Kelly, that you
(19:59):
and your audience are veryfamiliar with.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I'm I'm really excited tohear that.
I think the idea of a smallschool in an interesting place
is already exciting and that canbe convenient for parents and
they like the extracurricularassociations or maybe just the
environment, right?
The safety of it.
There, my kids love being here.
We've chosen adults that areexpert at cultivating connection
(20:23):
and things like that.
So you you're already in a goodspot.
But it it does feel like amissing opportunity.
And sometimes I'll run intothese where it's like, okay, we
got 10 of us and we're mixed ageor whatever, but everyone sit
down and we're going to do thislesson and you guys listen to
me.
You know, it's uh it's a greatopportunity to personalize this
to help kids take ownership.
And, you know, we believe thatthat that really unlocks this uh
(20:45):
passion, this love of learningthat's just different than what
I experienced, even though I wasgood at school.
I did not grow up loving it orbeing particularly happy to be
there, you know.
I just sort of went through themotions.
So I think that's it's beautifulthat you've taken that
opportunity.
And I'm excited to see what whatcomes of it.
Incredible that you got fullright off the bat.
So you either have greatmarketing or it's just a really
(21:08):
desperate need in your communityfor options.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
Yeah.
Uh we we're really excited, youknow, from a change management
and a leadership standpoint, youknow, we've you know, we're
we're on this relentless pursuitfrom the inside of shifting a
traditional building to, youknow, be deliver on those
promises as as much as wepossibly can.
And that's a process that takesa while.
(21:32):
I mean, we think from uh thereif you can plant something
that's proximately close enoughthat you can almost see, it
gives you something to to lookat and learn from.
And and our best hope is thatEastern Hancock can learn from
those organizations that arethat are popping up and and vice
versa.
That there are there are thingsthat are happening at Eastern
Hancock that probably thosemicro sites could learn from and
(21:56):
and use as they they grow.
And that so it's Indianmicroschool collaborative, and
the micro school word is ispretty important, but the
collaborative piece of that isalso extremely important because
I would imagine that the life ofa micro school founder could be
pretty lonely.
Yeah.
Like the idea of having anetwork of other microschool
(22:16):
founders that you can learn fromand lead with would be pretty
powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Yeah, I think it's maybe my bias.
I came into this with I and youknow, and I think you mentioned
a lot of people are strong onthe education, weak on the
business.
I was maybe stronger on thebusiness in tech.
I had never been a teacherbefore when I started a
microschool in my house, uh,now, you know, seven, eight
years ago.
So getting to that point whereum where it's like, okay, I'm
(22:42):
gonna do this.
I really felt like, man, peopleare gonna need a lot of help on,
you know, the resources,curriculum, the learning model,
and the business side, you know,how to enroll kids.
And we got good at all of that.
And then I'll I'll go tell it topeople so excited.
Like we've helped a thousandpeople start microschools and
I'll have this conversationwhere it's like, look at all
these things we've built foryou.
And then they're like, yeah, butand then I'll show them our
(23:03):
community and it's literallyjust pull it up.
Like there's this constantdiscussion of people talking to
each other, and here's like thetraining and how to engage and
what happens.
And people see that and they'relike, Oh, I'm I'm not alone.
And I think your intuition isabsolutely right that it it can
feel it can feel like anisolating, lonely thing, and and
you're doing somethingdifferent, and people are
looking at you funny in yourcommunity, and so all of a
(23:25):
sudden now it's like I'm notweird.
There's lots of smart peopledoing this, and I'm part of a
movement or a group.
So I love the idea of thecollaborative and sharing
resources.
I mean, in fact, I want to helphowever I can.
I mean, I love what you guys aredoing and would love to see this
grow.
Yeah.
So what tell me a little bitabout the educators?
How did you find the actualadults that will be on on site?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Yeah, the the first one actually came from within
Eastern Hancock.
She's um a special educator thatum was just kind of interested
in doing something different.
Also was one of those peoplethat had leadership attributes
that kind of oozed out of herthat, but didn't really want to
be a principal.
So when this opportunity came,she um, you know, was was really
(24:13):
interested.
And then the other ones, theother hires that were in the
process of making right now havecome from within.
And we're learning that a lot ofthe families that were choosing
to think differently about theirown kids' education were
educators themselves.
And so the rest of them areeither coming from certified
educators or non-certifiedemployees who just are
interested in coming and helpingout.
(24:34):
You know, we did very little jobposting outside of the community
of people that have signed up tobe a part of the conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
Wow.
That's actually a reallyexciting phenomenon.
I keep finding these people too.
I they I think they're kind ofquietly existing in the
wilderness.
They don't really have a placein the mainstream.
I mean, they'll do, they'reoften good at their jobs, but
they have this feeling of, youknow, what if we really shook
things up or did it differently?
We could, we could hit, youknow, strike a much larger
(25:01):
impact and activate some ofthese what you call
non-cognitive benefits of of areal true learning environment.
Those people are great.
And and when they see, oh, I canactually make the school of my
dreams like really do it and notjust do it eventually, but do it
now, you know, I think that'sthe difference between
microschools and and some of theolder rounds.
(25:22):
Like charter schools wereawesome, and you saw people like
that step up, but it's anenormous lift, you know, to
prepare a charter applicationand get the building and get
everything off the ground withmulti-million dollars.
And so it takes years and lotsof money, and only a few of them
get to do it.
So for people that maybe don'twant to jump that hurdle or
can't jump that hurdle, um,sounds like you're finding those
(25:43):
folks right in your in yourcommunity.
And I love people ask me a lot,you know, who are the people
that start microschools?
It's like, are they parents orare they educators?
It's increasingly both.
They're uh, you know, they theythey taught forever, they're
really strong educators, butthey also are asking the hard
questions, what do I want for mychild?
And that can lead to potentiallydifferent outcomes.
(26:04):
So this is exciting, George.
I I can't wait to see how thisgoes.
And I need to get out there andvisit you guys and see this this
beautiful camp.
What uh what do you do besidesthe core academics?
I mean, do you have a one of thethings that a school district is
is core academic, but thenthere's all these extra, you
know, resources, programs,school lunches.
(26:24):
I mean, school is so manythings.
How have you thought about allof that in the you know, in this
world?
I didn't realize you werecompletely legally separate.
So maybe you don't do it.
We don't do any of those things.
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
So yeah.
Well, um, so the answer to thatis easier this year than what it
might be next year, as we'rethinking about launching sites
all over.
Right now we're, you know, we'reclose to Eastern Hancock.
So we're not providingtransportation to and from the
building in the in the morningand the afternoon.
But things like school lunchesand those kind of things we can
(26:55):
we can work on because we'rewe're close if we need to.
Amazing.
But you're right, like there area lot of ins and outs of of
school that you kind of take forgranted if you've, you know,
like like I said at the verybeginning of this, I've lived on
the school calendar my entirelife.
And, you know, sometimes whenthat's the case, you you forget
all the things that happenwithin a within the Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
People will say, you know, they'll they'll use the
word factory sometimes and itit's meant as a derogatory, you
know, attack, but factoriesproduce a lot.
And I think that's something weforget is there's we we often
have to talk to people about thetrade-offs, you know.
Does this microschool have abaseball team that competes in
some sort of league?
Like, no, it doesn't.
(27:39):
There's 10 kids in thismicroschool.
Now there people, the communitygets together and they come up
with things and there's clubsports.
I mean, thankfully it's it's notthe end of the world, and
parents still have to figure itout.
But yeah, that's amazing thatyou're able to couple some of
that in and participate, sort oflike weave it into a uh the
overall school experience thatyou guys are used to providing
(28:00):
with your your district schools.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Yeah, it's been uh, you know, whether or not to
provide all of those differentkinds of things has been um, you
know, an ongoing conversation.
And this being the first year,we try to keep things as simple
as we possibly can.
Nice, you know, and we'refocusing a lot on the the
academics and the um obviouslythe non-academic type of skills
(28:24):
as well.
And we're really we're reallythinking hard about the school
day mostly.
And then, you know, in the nextfew years or so, we might have
some time and capacity to thinkabout things that are happening
beyond the school day.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Love it.
Well, I'm excited to read thepapers.
Hopefully, you publish somethingabout all of this and just share
everything you're learningbecause it's it's truly
innovative.
I mean, there's not a lot ofthis happening um, you know,
from in from the inside, so tospeak.
And it's really exciting thatyou guys are doing it.
Let's shift gears a little bit,George, just for our last few
minutes here.
Would love to just kind of takesome of the you're a humble guy,
(28:58):
you're not gonna feelcomfortable with this, but some
of the learnings and insightsthat you've um distilled through
through this experience, take amoment and and think of it as
you're also a helpful person.
And so think of it as there arepeople listening to this right
now in similar professions toyou involved, either on a school
board or as an administrator orprincipal or a teacher that are,
(29:20):
you know, part of thetraditional education system.
And they're thinking, wow, thisreally sounds awesome.
Like I would love to get thisoff the ground, but you know,
very quickly there's a voice intheir head that just says, No
way, it's impossible, you know,brick wall.
Give them, yeah, give them yourbest sort of yeah, I don't know,
pep talkslash best practices,things that you've figured out
(29:42):
as you've you've taken this on.
SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
I don't know if it's makes pep talk criteria, but
I've never so in my career I'venever done anything that has led
to so much imposter syndrome.
Just because, you know, I I knowhow to be a superintendent.
I know how to you know do thejob of school as we know it but
(30:05):
as we've talked to families whoare are wanting to make
decisions for their kids therecomes a point where I we had to
make a decision to try to be apart of the solution.
And so I I think you know I Iknow I'm blessed.
I've got a board that's verysupportive that makes being
(30:27):
courageous easier than some ofmy colleagues probably have
because I know I've got I've gota extended contract and I've got
tremendous support from myschool board and my livelihood
is not at risk by making thisdecision.
But I think it's just the Idon't know find find the people
that are crazy enough to dreamwith you.
So for me, we've got I've got afriend who's on the state school
(30:48):
board he's also on our board nownamed Scott Bess.
I've got a friend named Kim Rearwho works really closely with
Scott that you know the three ofus did lots of dreaming about
what this could look like beforewe actually spun it up.
I've got a couple of boardmembers that were really really
interested in helping me thinkabout you know the business side
of this they're not educatorsbut they're business people and
(31:09):
I think find the people who areyou know just maybe as as crazy
as you are and would beinterested in and joining those
conversations and you know Iwould invite anybody that would
meet that criteria to you knowthey can reach out to me
anytime.
I'm I'm happy to chat withanybody who wants to join in
these conversations.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
It's amazing.
Okay so just to spit back what Ijust heard you say expect
imposter syndrome that's comingI I love that advice because
it's so accurate and I think itfor whatever reason imposter
syndrome surprises us you knowwhen it when it gets there we
assume that it must meansomething terrible about us and
and the actual likelihood ofthis it's coming you're gonna
(31:49):
feel that way so just know it'scoming.
And then it's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Kelly D just you know do you think maybe that
comes from like we're buildingsomething and I've got 50
parents plus signing up trustingme.
So then like then a little bitof me thinking like wait do they
know they're trusting like me?
Like I don't know that I feelready to earn that trust and I
think that's where it comes fromand maybe the confidence will
(32:13):
happen September when theschool's actually open and
running it will.
SPEAKER_02 (32:17):
I mean and that absolutely happens this is what
what's crazy and I I'll tellthis story sometimes I'm
obsessed with the Wrightbrothers Orville and Wilbur not
too far away from you guys andin Ohio they've got this bike
shop and they've got this dreamof flying like birds you know
how can we do this?
So they go to North Carolinabecause of the wind they're on a
train it's these long trips andthey're launching these gliders
(32:39):
and crashing them like yearafter year they're just it's
like sort of working sort of notthey're kind of just stumbling
along but there's over all ofthose crashes and flights
they're building this I don'tknow I don't want to call it
swagger.
I don't know if it was swaggereven yet but it it's this sense
of like well we at least knowhow to get this far off the
ground and and do this thing andand it's messy and it's not it
(33:02):
doesn't feel remarkable at all.
They're reading in the newspaperat the time about big money
projects that were happeningover in in Washington DC that
were doing great yet supposedlydoing great but those guys they
were spending all the money andand then they had this like
spectacular crash justdisastrous like it didn't work
at all.
Meanwhile just one flight afteranother they're learning a
little bit at a time and and thething that they had was just the
(33:24):
gumption to just keep doing itlike to do it in the first place
and keep doing it.
It puts you in a specialcategory.
So you believe like oh thoseguys are the real ones they have
their Smithsonians involved andet cetera but you know I
meanwhile I'm actually doingthese glider flights and there
was this year I know this isturning into a longer story but
there was this year aftermultiple years of gliders where
(33:48):
I think it was I'm trying toremember if it was Orville or
Wilbur that like pushed it theyjust said look there's these
papers that have been publishedand these scientists there's
data and there's the science offlight you know that was like
and I'm putting it in ironicquotes on purpose because the it
was all so new it turned out tobe just total hogwash like it
was it was bogus.
(34:08):
But they read all of theliterature and they reworked all
of their designs to sort ofalign with conventional wisdom
of the time they went back withtheir their new and improved you
know we've we've now readeverything we've got the science
of flight and we go to KittyHawk again and it's just a
disaster.
It was their worst season evernothing worked they've got this
(34:29):
just pile of wreckage basicallythat they're bringing back on
the train to to Ohio and they'relike what just happened like why
did that yeah and and I thinkthe idea the reason for imposter
syndrome is we have this sensethat there's this data backed
tried and true proven thing thatwe know works or whatever.
And and I I guess there's peoplelike me and I think you're one
(34:51):
of these people although I don'twant to get you in trouble with
your board if they're listeningto this that are a little
suspicious of that narrative,right?
It's like, sure we've been doingit this way, but are we sure
that it works, especially whenyou look for maybe some
different outcomes like well Imean there's obvious like nape
scores and reading and math andlike those things don't seem to
be working.
But then you also have like dokids like being here?
(35:14):
Do they is joy even a factor inany of this and should it be?
Are they prepared for life?
I mean you can hear throughoutyour story like you sort of
implicitly question that if notreject you know some of those
assumptions.
But they're still going to belike so embedded in your brain
and I'm saying this now to thepeople listening, you're gonna
believe that like those peoplehave it.
(35:34):
They've got their answersthey've got it figured out and
what could I possibly all I'vedone is sat with kids face to
face for hundreds or thousandsof hours right like that's you
know you know something becauseyou've done that.
You've it feels like crashingairplanes or gliders when you've
spent all that time trying tohelp kids become learners.
But yeah I think I think it's aninteresting not that you asked
(35:56):
me for this sermon but it's aninteresting phenomenon because
it happens over and over againwe think okay there's the the
real truth there's the sciencethere's the real you know and
I'm fake I'm an imposter I can'tdo this and so your brain's
going to play tricks on you.
I don't know if any of thatresonates with you.
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
For sure does I think the other like I don't
know you know we're small atEastern Hancock.
I I get to meet I meet everysingle junior and senior every
single year and talk to themabout you know what you're
playing after high school whatare we doing to prepare you for
that who's your go-to personaround here and when you're that
small you get to know individualkids and so when that happens
(36:33):
you see which kids that you knowwe to we talk about the word
works often and sometimes worksmeans enough kids for the grown
ups not to feel bad about butlike I dream that we can create
a system that works for all ofthem like that we can find a way
so the vision of IndianaMicroschool Collaborative is
that every single kid in Indianashould get to go to a school
that feels like it was designedjust for them.
(36:55):
And and I think that's that'sthe that's the dream you know
and and and I think I think ifwe're going to achieve that
dream my job's not to just plana bunch of microschools.
My my job's to be a big enoughinfluence that I'm influencing
the way that school's doneinside the walls that are
already established as well.
And you know that's that's ourdream.
(37:16):
And and I think impostersyndrome comes when your dreams
are so big that they scare you.
And I think that's that's alsotrue that it's okay.
Like I think that's probablytrue of the Wright brothers that
their dreams were so big thatthey scared them.
SPEAKER_02 (37:31):
And thank you for sharing that George it's a
sacred thing to hear you kind ofopen up your heart and share
that dream and it's it's apowerful one.
It's it it gets me excited.
So I know that there are peoplein your world but beyond well
beyond the scope of peopleyou've even met that are hearing
that and saying yes like I I'mmotivated by that dream, by that
vision.
Other things I heard you say,find your tribe I love that
(37:54):
advice so building up this possecollaboration, I think you did
that twice.
You did that once by reallylistening which is just such a
breath of fresh air in I think aworld where it's too easy to
sort of just go with emotion tolisten to parents to take them
seriously engage with the peopleleaving for homeschool and say,
(38:14):
hey like just tell me about itlike what are you doing and and
why and what are you lookingfor?
And you learn so much byengaging that way.
So you're building your tribeand your community but the other
thing you did was you know youmentioned some of their names
some of these folks that are onboards with you and these are
big picture people that arewilling to share a dream like
that and and feel motivated.
So I agree that you're lucky Ialso think that that never could
(38:37):
have happened if you hadn'tstarted with the dream and
started talking about it.
So if you're out there andyou've got a dream you you maybe
think it's not worthy of sharingplease share it.
You know talk to people listenand refine your dream and then
and then share your dream andand I think there's so much that
can can come from that.
So that's incredible as well.
Any other advice as we wrap thisup George I think just do it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
It's gonna take all of us to do it.
If the kind of person that'slistening to your podcast it's
probably the kind of personthat's already thinking about
doing something and they justneed to get going.
SPEAKER_02 (39:12):
Love it.
Well I wish I could spend moretime with you and I definitely
wish I could come visit thecamp.
I I want to see this this centerand and visit your microschools.
So thank you for the work you'redoing.
Thanks for taking some time totalk to us about it and and
share this.
And we'll put contactinformation about the
collaborative in our show notesso if anybody's interested in
kind of learning more aboutGeorge and the work they're
(39:32):
doing in Indiana and andhopefully far beyond.
Thanks George thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
The Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda.
Prenda makes it easy to startand run an amazing microschool
based on all the ideas we talkabout here on the Kindled
Podcast.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media at PrendaLearn and
if you'd like more informationabout starting a microschool
just go to prenda.com.
Thanks for listening andremember to keep Kindling
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