Season 2, Episode 1: "Calling" with Reconcile

Ronnie "Reconcile" Lillard has been a college football player, he’s a rapper, youth advocate, court case manager, and father of five. He wears a lot of hats, but one thing is for sure, he’s always doing it for the community. After leading ministry in Houston, he returned home to his native state of Florida where he is now a director at the non-profit organization Youth For Christ, where he leads outreach programs for at-risk youth.  Join us as we talk to him about navigating family, ministry life, the joys, and even the pain of living out your calling. 

Listen to Streets Is Suicide by Reconcile here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocTl6iOIU1s

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
What's up.
Y'all how are y'all doing today?
Hopefully you guys can hear me.
I've got a very special guestthat Sachs man.
Thank you, Alicia, for the, uh,for the words of encouragement.
Yeah, man, my, uh, ironically,it's the soundtrack for the, for
the podcast.
And today I get an opportunityto interview the guy who, who,

(00:32):
uh, man sent me the beat andit's, it's what we use for the
podcast.
At least what's going on, man.
You can hear me.
I'm good.
I'm good.
Okay.
Appreciate you.
Appreciate you.
Hey guys.
Thank you guys for joining usand bearing with us.
Uh, I've got a very specialguests, man.
We're going to have a greatconversation, um, brother, by

(00:57):
the name of reconcile, but letme, let me set this up real
quick.
After today's conversation, heis my hope.
Uh, you're going to shake thesepandemic blues and get out here
and walk in the joy of yourcolleagues.
I'm I guarantee you, after thisconversation, you are going to

(01:20):
shake them blues.
You're going to get out here anddo what God has called you to
do.
And so man, welcome to a livetaping.
This is a live taping of thekinfolk podcast show.
We're going into season two andwe're going to be dealing with
calling season one.
We dealt with in light of the,uh, man, the, the, the

(01:41):
insurrection against blackbodies from last year and the
years past, where do we go fromhere in light of what happened
to our brother, George Florida,season one and season two is
about calling and, uh, man,we're, we're taping this thing
live and our episodes will drop10 starting, uh, the first week

(02:02):
in April after Easter.
And so we're doing this live.
And so I also will do kinfolkthe kinfolk key kinfolk key
thought.
I'll do that live as well.
And so man, I'll brotherreconcile will be on shortly.
Uh, man, let me just, uh, justpray real quick for our time
man, before we get into it,father, we're so thankful for

(02:25):
all that you do.
We're thankful Lord that yougive us God, this opportunity,
Lord, to speak to our brothersand sisters today.
I pray Lord that as we have man,just to, uh, a, a conversation,
God, I hope that helps each andevery one of us, I know that
it's going to be man weighty.

(02:46):
It's going to be fun.
Uh, it's going to be all ofthose things, Lord, but I pray
Lord that most of all, we wouldall individually find out, uh,
that we have a calling on ourlife is in Jesus name, pray.
Amen.
What's up reconcile man wreckwas, uh, began dedicating his

(03:06):
time and efforts towardsstruggling youth and
incarcerated man.
As back as 2009, I was there.
I was, I was watching it allhappen.
Did outreach events withjuvenile gang units, uh, in
Houston and post-collegefootball.
He turned his focus over themaking hip hop music that

(03:26):
challenged the urban cores.
Whereas for as well as forming anon-profit, uh, live frontline
that helped to mentor at-riskyouth on probation in the city
of Houston, uh, man, he wasrapping while he was doing that.
Uh, he was serving as a juvenilecourt case manager, uh, for

(03:47):
Harris County.
And currently he is a directorfor a nonprofit in, uh, Miami
Dade County and in 2020.
And I'm reading all this causecause we're going to talk about
some of this.
When we talk about calling in2020 reconciled presented the
mayor of Miami with an agenda toimprove black life in the city

(04:07):
of Miami reconcile advocates forthe abolishment of the 13th
amendment, juvenile justicereform, prison reform, major
challenges to public housing aswell as education reform.
Man, ladies and gentlemen, let'sgive a warm welcome to our
brother reconciled.

(04:28):
All right, man.
Um, man, before we get into, uh,today, we're going to be talking
about calling and what it meansto fulfill your calling with joy
and like, you know, the term wealways talk about people have a
call in our life and we thinkthat it has to do with like, uh,
called a preaching call to apulpit.

(04:50):
But man, your life is, isemblematic of what it means to
fulfill or fulfill the call thatGod gives all of us a call to
the world.
But before I get into that, man,I want to man, just want to
pause for a second.
Uh, you, you created a song that, uh, me and my wife play on

(05:11):
replay called streets issuicide.
And uh, you featured a brothernamed Obie Noah, who we all know
, uh, he tragically plast, um,Sunday evening, I guess it would
be Monday morning.
And so man, I just want to giveyou the floor to kind of express

(05:32):
yourself, man, and kind of tellus who he is, why'd you pick
them and uh, what this lossmeans to his neighborhood, um,
to our family.
Uh, I met Obie back when I firststarted here, but OB back when

(05:52):
he was eight boy, you know, asyou know, we got off third

Speaker 2 (05:58):
World community is real tight knit, third ward,
Houston, Texas, and, uh, OB, uh,you know, yeah, he's all the way
thorough third ward, Jack Gates,um, state championship
basketball team.
Uh, he went off, uh, left, uh,left the area from, you know,
living in the projects and wentoff to play college basketball,

(06:21):
traveled overseas, um, reallyexpanded his mind from that
street mentality to, to abeautiful person who was
well-rounded well versed and,and, and knowing people's issues
and struggles and knowing how tospeak to, you know, not only the
community, but knowing how tospeak to, uh, people, to help
them understand the struggles ofthe community.

(06:42):
And, um, you know, uh, you know,I was able to connect with him
for some, for some differentstuff that we were doing.
Um, when music, because we hadsimilar heartbeat, um, you know,
he cared about the community, uh, messily accurate by the
community that mislead.

(07:02):
And, um, we had a mutual friendnamed Nigela, which is like my,
my A1C since day one, I made theconnection, you know, started,
we started sharing music andgoing back and forth and it's
like, you know, we really wantto make a record that can impact
the streets of Houstonspecifically on the third ward
area for years to come.

(07:23):
So anytime somebody moves theirlife, anytime, you know, the
streets stuff is getting wildand you play this record and
this record should be a reminderif you are what we, what we're
getting away from the focus and,and how, how senseless, you
know, some of the violences and,and how the violence is not the
answer.
Uh, even though the pain may bereal, that violence is not the

(07:46):
answer and that S is actuallyfound in the cross.
And so if you ever check thatrecord, I, man, it's just a
beautiful record.
It's an old, the Georgia,Florida, uh, both of us, all of
us on this call and him and, youknow, we all knew George Floyd
personally.
And, um, you know, it was just apositive thing.
And then, you know, do we justmay just find out, man, I'll cry

(08:09):
it out, bro.
I just find out that he just wassenselessly murdered.
And I know you not about that.
Not even that he he's dead lifeis not even in his path.
He's such a for beautifulperson.
It's just senseless, man.
I can't even, I can't even wrapmy mind and my stomach around
it.
You know what I'm saying?

(08:29):
Feel them a lot of phone calls,people crying.
It's just crazy.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
And, uh, that, that, uh, that song, man just, just
rings in my, my heart and mymind.
Why did you, why did you pickhim for streets, his suicide and
what was it about him that, thatyou felt it was?
I mean, first of all, describestreets as suicide.
It was some of the lyrics.

(08:56):
And then why'd you pick him

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Last night?
I heard the bullets fly lastnight.
I heard the hood cry, you know,anytime, you know, I just
remember just living in thirdward and you hear gunshots
throughout the night.
And then, you know, followingthem gunshots a lot of time is,
is, you know, there's a phonesomewhere where people are
calling it and that phone wasnot yesterday.

(09:20):
You know what I'm saying?
And then there's a bunch ofother phone calls that happen
after that male what's going on,ladies, you hear such and such,
such and such.
And then it's like,simultaneously everybody who's
connected to that person iscrying.
That was like last night I heardthem bullets fly last night, I
heard the hood cry, sweat.

(09:40):
It's like, you know, the wholestreet mindset, a lot lifestyle
is, is suicide.
And, uh, you know, is this, youknow, it's, it's just something
we have to, as a community, wehave to really wrestle with, you
know, we really want to changeand we really have to change the
culture and that, and that justto change the culture, you

(10:02):
really got to change.
The circumstance of people areliving in.
And, uh, otherwise we're goingto replay this, replay this, and
replay this, and it'll besomebody else that breaks our
heart, you know?
Um, Oh, we was pig man.
Like I said, you know, uh, OBhas that heartbeat.
Um, you know, he's the type ofbrother that's gone jump out of

(10:24):
food truck and serve people,serve homeless, people serve.
He's the type of brother that'sgoing to rally people to vote.
You know, he's the type ofbrother that's gonna, um, you
know, talk down the street,ignorance, you know, he's the
type of brother that take hisshirt off his back flee, you
know, I seen him support so manypeople, uh, you know, saying it

(10:45):
just be a real one from the,from, from the, from the, from
the mud, you know what I'msaying?
So,

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, man, no, I, um, Venmo rotten me, man, when you
told me and we, I mean, we've,we've had so many people, um,
over the last year, year and ahalf just seems like they would,
they would take taken from us.
And man, I think this kind ofmergers into our conversation

(11:13):
about calling and I just want toset it up, uh, briefly, um, for
those of you are listening, um,this, this idea of calling is so
important, you know, way backwhen this old white guy named
John Piper on this phrase, don'twaste your life.
And I think for so many of us,we, we are living at less than

(11:39):
our capacity, less than I callit because we think our calling
is to the American dream and tojust go to church on Sunday.
And so man, I want to set upthis conversation.
My, my boy rec has had a crazy,amazing life in packed into his
30 plus years, but I want to, Iwant to set the conversation up

(12:01):
with, um, this idea of callingand where it comes from in the
Bible.
And so there's a, there's apassage of scripture Genesis one
26 through 28 and it's a crazypassage.
And I always refer to it whenI'm thinking about my calling
because verse 26, isn't Godsaid, let us make man in our

(12:23):
image after our likeness and lethim take dominion over the fish
of the sea, over the birdsheaven and over the, uh, over
all the earth and over everycreeping thing that creeps in
the earth, um, he'll drink thesake.
So God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God, he
created him, male and female.

(12:43):
He created them and in verse 28,he'll say, and God blessed them.
And God said to them, befruitful and multiply.
And here's the crazy thing hesays, be fruitful and multiply
and feel the earth and subdue itand, and feel the earth and
subdue it.
Um, man, let me, let me, um,before I make an appointment at

(13:08):
Duardo seeing some stuff here,man, I want to make sure that
we, we, we captured, uh, andwaters says, may we be counted
worthy of the calling?
God has bestowed upon us.
He also said, I said, man, lifereally is a vapor.
And uh, okay, so man, so checkthis out.

(13:32):
He says, be fruitful.
Uh, you've been fruitful in, in,in your life.
You got five kids, fivebeautiful kids.
Uh, so we get the flavor of whatit means to be fruitful and
multiply, but then he says it'sextra word, uh, and field the
earth and subdue it.
And you're like, well it can't,I mean have more kids because

(13:55):
that's what be fruitfulmultiply.
It means feel the earth has todeal with and has to do with,
um, taking the, the, the toolsand the raw material that God
gave Adam in the garden,cultivating it and creating
kingdom that is worth I'm worthyof the God that we serve and

(14:20):
worthy of, uh, uh, um, um, it is, is saying well done.
And so to fill the earth forAdam was to be somebody who
takes what God put in his handand man expanded to two.
So that, so that the kingdomisn't just man, we, we talked

(14:41):
about sermons in churchservices, but the kingdom is
about every human being taken,what God, the raw materials God
has given them and cultivatingit and creating something
beautiful.
And so Adam's call, was it topreach in the pulpit Adam's call

(15:02):
was to go out and feel the worldto take, um, the, the, the raw
material and make somethingbeautiful out of it in that
brought God praise and thatexpanded quote unquote God's
kingdom.
And so man, when we talk aboutcalling, that means that every
one of us has been given rawmaterial and it is up to us to

(15:24):
listen to God as he, as he tellsus to feel the world and to do
with what he's given us.
And some of us got one tool andsome of us got five tools like
Rick here, but we all gotsomething.
And so man, I wanted to, Iwanted to shift gears to kind of
ask you, because I think sinceeverybody has a call, regardless

(15:47):
of whether it's accounting orarchery or artistry, I mean,
this is important.
I mean, because I think so manypeople think you're called to do
work in a church and that theother things that we do are just
our job.
And so I wanted to just kind ofpitch to you.
Do you feel called?
And if you do,

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, I definitely feel cold.
Uh, I feel cold.
Um, and like, like, you knowwhat I think about calling, I
think most people, um, lookingfor the call and know what it,
you know, what it is.
I think you're calling a lot oftimes can be tied to, um, you
know, uh, things in your lifethat that might be more

(16:30):
challenging.
You know what I'm saying?
Like things that particularly,you know, let's say made it
something that your life islike, man, I went through that
and I have a heart for that.
You know, like I remember when Iwas, uh, when I was a kid, a lot
of people don't notice about mewhen I was a kid.
I used to live with mygrandfather.
Now, my grandfather was reallysick.

(16:52):
He was very sick.
My grandfather passed away whenhe was 59 years old.
And uh, they told him like whenhe was like 40, 47 or something
that he wasn't gonna make theyear.
So he made it like, he squeezedout like another 12 years, but
it's very challenging for him.
And I just remember, um, wecouldn't do a lot for himself.

(17:14):
I used to help him, you know,get out of bed, walk him to the
car, help him get out of thecar, you know, help take shower,
like do everything for him, youknow what I'm saying?
And um, and, uh, he, he passedaway of a heart attack.
He had a heart attack.
And, uh, I remember after hepassed away, I was like, man, I

(17:35):
want to be a cardiovascularsurgeon because I want to, I
wish I was, could have been theperson that knew how to fix his
heart.
And I knew he couldn't affordthe insurance and all this stuff
that came with fixing his heartand all those issues that, Hey,
it's so like it, my, I felt likethat particular thing was
something that I cared about andmislead.

(17:57):
Now I got to college and figuredout how long it was going to
take to do that.
And there was other things,there was other things on my
heart data that were pressing aswell.
Like, uh, I, I feel that I feltI missed me to.
I used to always, when I was akid, I used to watch the
airplanes, uh, gold black in thehood.
I'd be sitting in the hood, youwatched the airplane go over.

(18:18):
And I used to always think like,like one day I'm going to jump
on one of them airplanes and I'mnever coming back.
You can't pay them enough toever come back here.
You know what I'm saying?
And um, but then you, you get onan airplane.
I ended up getting a scholarshipand getting on an airplane and
going to play D one football atHouston.
And you realize that I realizedthat I wasn't there for myself,

(18:42):
but that getting back on thatairplane and going back to
places that needed that help andinvest in my life and those
types of people that I wastrying to really run away from
my own comfort and, and, youknow, never experienced the pain
and the poverty again.
God's like, um, um, um, um,building up in you, uh, the
resources to go back and make adifference in their poverty.

(19:04):
And so when I think about justcalling in general, you know, I
think everybody needs to look atthe things that are important.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I think we live too muchin America.
It's just like, man, we justwanna, we live for the bad.
We want to be caked up.
We want the least path ofresistance.
So you know what I'm saying?
We don't want no, uh, you know,we just, we just want everything

(19:26):
to be sweet, easy, but that's,that's not living like, you
know, get enough money to liveon the weekend, go have a
vacation.
That's not living life.
Isn't meant to be trying to bepreserved.
I look at Jesus Christ.
Life is meant to be laid out.
It's meant to be laid out, youknow?
And I don't think you need anypre-qualifications or you don't
have to have all this certainperfect circumstances to do that

(19:49):
.
I look at you, this Christagain, this man was born in a
manger.
This man was born into poverty.
This man was born into, youknow, he had none of those
things.
You know, you would think thatif God sent Jesus into creation
and he needed all this stuff todo all this stuff, that he would
have laced them up with like agood family that got bread, you
know what I'm saying?

(20:12):
You know, hurt can't man.
But it just goes to show like,you don't need all these things.
All you need is you need thepassion and you need the, um,
the vision from God.
And, uh, you should, yourbusiness should be both,

Speaker 1 (20:27):
You know, do you, um, you know, you, you go, you're so
passionate about this thing.
Uh, and about your calling, haveyou ever wanted to give up

Speaker 2 (20:43):
There's times where I've, I've felt discouraged as
if it's not work?
Like if it's not making a dead,I think I ever wanted to just
give up.
I think there's times I feltlike, man, am I even making a
dent?
Not, should I do something else?
But you know, feeling like God,do you know God, what is, how

(21:05):
does this work?
How does this play out?
You know?
Cause it feels, you know, attimes it feels pointless at
times it's it's sorrowful, youknow, like, you know, when you
work with, you know, work withjuveniles, you work with a kid,
there was a particular kid.
This just happened.
Like last month I worked withthis kid for like almost two
years and we were waiting forthe kid to come get out of,

(21:26):
finally get out of residential.
He had been locked up for liketwo birthdays.
We're waiting for him to comehome and they start really
working on his life, you know,while he was out.
And he, and he'd been out threedays and he got murdered and a
16 year old.
And uh, it just make you golike, God, what a, what are we,

(21:48):
what do you do?
You know?
And, uh, but I think the answeris not to quit.
Um, the answer is not definitelynot to quit, but sometimes it,
it, it does feel overwhelming.
And you, and you wonder thatguy, what is the point?
Um, and so I think in thosetimes, you know, that's why I

(22:09):
appreciate God really mean backinto things that are important.
You know, I always think aboutthe scripture says there's
anything that you should thinkabout, you know, think about
what is good, you know, thinkabout what is honorable was
noble and, and, you know, takecaptive the thoughts of the
enemy because the enemy, I thinkhe would definitely want you to
think it's pointless is fewtimes.

(22:31):
None of it makes a difference,you know?
And, and to get you to think,you know, well, I'm wasting my
time.
And then like the scripturesays, you know, Paul was like,
you know, if all of this is fewtiles, assume let's go ahead and
go ahead, eat, drink, get thestrip club, you know, let them
shake a couple of them in them,in my face.
And, and, um, let's go, you knowwhat I'm saying?

(22:51):
It's a little bit, but it doesmatter, you know, it doesn't
matter.
Do you, what did you do ifanything, to prepare for, for
your calling?
I mean, can you prepare for it?
I I'll know.
I mean, I think life preparesyou for it, but I think once you
realize that there's a certainway that you want to go, let's,

(23:13):
let's say, like you say, man, myon is, I'm just, I'm just using
an example.
Let's say you're like, man, Ireally want to fake legislation.
Uh, that affects a large groupof people.
You know what I mean?
Uh, to, to empower them and to,uh, improve the conditions in
which they live.
All right.

(23:33):
So if you have you filled any ofyour heart, you might want to
position yourself to putyourself in a position where you
can learn and you can sharpenthose tools so you can best do
that.
So I think that there is, uh,there is preparation.
If you want to be a pastor or apreacher, I don't think you need
a whole bunch of PhDs behindyour name to preach the gospel,

(23:53):
but you do need to study theword of God and you do need to
submit yourself toaccountability and a group of
men that are going to continueto push you because that is a
hard road.
And you know, there's a lot thatcomes with whether it's church
planting or anything, if yousay, well, even if there's
anything that, you know what I'msaying, I want to use, you know,
I guess some talent as aentertainer or whatever those
things are like you have to, youknow,

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So, so many people see you do the things that you
do.
Um, artists, activists,entertainer, what was your
period of preparation and, andwhat did you, what did you do to
prepare yourself?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I was learning as I was going.
I think the biggest, the bestthing that I could have did was
just, I just, uh, uh, and I, Iattributed to, to the Lord, I
just happened to gravitatetowards the right circles of
where I felt like God wanted meto be.
I knew what God didn't want meto be.

(24:54):
There was circles that I feltwere going to challenge me that
were going to sharpen me, thatwe're relationships.
And I thought that even thoughit might not be easy, it might
be a more challenging path.
I decided for whatever reason tocontinue to put myself in those
circles or put myself in thosespaces that grew me.
And I think naturally, uh, youknow, saying you fly with

(25:14):
Eagles,

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Well, I'm going to push you a little bit.
Can I get, can I, I mean, let'ssay I got my accountability
group.
I, you know, got my 50 people.
Can I get in the booth right nowand, and develop a song like you
can't, you see what I'm saying?
Like

Speaker 2 (25:32):
You can't, you can't get in the booth.
It just might not sound likethat.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
And so that's what I, I pushed you a little bit, I
would say, like prepared.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
The rule of thumb is 10,000 hours is what turns you
into a profession.
You know what I'm saying?
You put 10,000 hours intowhatever craft it is that you
do, then that's what, you know,if you get up today and put four
hours into it and then footerfor the next year, you put four
hours, it doesn't do the mathreal quick, four hours.

(26:04):
Let's, let's say task five daysa week.
All right, you're getting 20hours a week into your craft
just by putting four hours a dayinto what you do.
You know what I'm saying?
You add that times four weeks ina month.
Now you talking about youputting 80 hours of work into
what you do, you know, sayingthat you add that there's 12
months in a year, 80 times 12, Ido the math.
Was that not 9,600 hours.

(26:25):
You didn't put into it.
So you just put in four hours ina day and about a year and a
little change.
You know what I'm saying?
You have put your, you will bein a different place, uh, in
regards to what you do and whatyou're pursuing.
You know what I'm saying?
It's, it's the work as anovertime and how many hours

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Do you, do you, would you estimate that you put in to
being able to make thosemelodies, to be able to make
those, put those words together

Speaker 2 (26:53):
From 2010 to, to nap rush.
Now we probably put in a hundredthousand hours, you know,

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I've seen, I saw you in the beginning or towards the
beginning, and I see you now,and I know man, you put in an
inordinate amount of energy andI think people don't always
appreciate that.
Uh, you, you receive a call fromGod, but a call from God is also
a call to prepare.

(27:24):
Um, did you ever consider yourcalling to be from a pulpit?
And if you did, what was goingthrough your head at the time?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I, I think I definitely feel a calling like a
pool pit column, but I thinkthere's, there's me
specifically.
I think there's different typesof pools.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Okay.
Talk to us.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I think there's a, but, and then I think there's
other places where there'splatforms, where you can be a
Christian influencer and aleader of thought and, uh, keep
people accountable and, um, andshepherd people.
Um, I don't think that's alwayslike the traditional church
pulpit.
I think there's even roles inthe church where guys don't
always have a pulpit role, but,um, but they, they have a pulpit

(28:11):
responsibilities, uh, you know,set up anybody that accepts that
responsibility to say, I'm goingto lead that life, you know?
Um, you know, it comes withother things, but yeah, uh, I,
but one day, you know, whoknows, maybe you might see me in
a traditional pool pit.
I, I definitely believe in alocal church.
And right now I think the localchurch, uh, is, you know, when

(28:34):
we talk about a local church, wejust talking about the church in
your neighborhood is strugglingand we need more motivated,
encouraged pastors.
You know, I think pastors arediscouraged similar to what I
was talking about earlier.
Just feeling the discouragementand feeling like, you know,
what's making the debt, they'relooking at the finances, they're
looking at the state of the, youknow, everything that's going

(28:56):
on.
So, you know, pray, I pray fastas all the time.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Oh man.
Um,

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I've got some lightning round questions.
These are, these are real light,uh, before we get to some more
heavy stuff.
All right.
So you got to answer them realquick.
Got 10 real quick scale of oneto 10.
How good are you at keepingsecrets?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Eight.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Okay.
Uh, Ariel, uh, Jasmine, Jasmine.
Okay.
First celebrity crush.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Uh, Jennifer Lopez.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Who is, uh, Dawn or dusk?
Uh, Don.
Don.
Okay.
Why Don this?
When the sun go down, right?
No, that's what it's all go up.
So if you could travel back, ifyou could travel back in time,

(30:08):
what period would you go to?
A 1998.
1990.
Okay.
All right.
And why, why the nineties?
Uh, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Do you snore, uh, I'm told youwouldn't know her.

(30:32):
I wouldn't know the place youmost want to travel?
Uh, South Africa.
Okay.
Uh, favorite junk food?
Hartley's hot wings.
Okay.
I, uh, favorite childhood TVshow?

(30:55):
Um, man, y'all remember, uh,he's

Speaker 3 (30:56):
A smart guy.
Smart guy.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
You like smart guy?
Smart guy was good.
Smart guy was good.
Uh, it was a spinoff off the,uh, what's the one the T and
tomorrow.
Yeah, my brother, me, my brotherand me was over at two.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Uh, favorite season of small,you know, the, the, what is the

(31:22):
spring fall, winter, summerfavorite season?
I like, uh, uh, like fall whereyou could start smelling the
football at the end of the year.
Okay.
All right.
Uh, last Halloween costume.
I don't think I've done theHalloween costume.
Ooh.

(31:44):
Uh, the only one I can think ofwhen I was at Git and we had, uh
, we had, it was Halloween, butwe was coming from practice.
And so my sister, she got to bea cheerleader and I got to be a
football player.
Cause I already had my helmetfor practice.
What were you going to be?
You were a football player.
My favorite costume is an angryblack man, but anyway, let's

(32:06):
keep, uh, K K goodbye.
Uh, shoot, neither.
Oh, okay.
Y'all no sweets for you?
Not really sweet potato pie.
Okay.
Well, okay.
All right.
Uh, do you ever postinspirational posts on social
media?
That's you all the time?

(32:27):
All right.
So let's move to some,

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Uh, family and call it.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
What does family, when I say family, what does
that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (32:43):
A man at nuclear unit.
At the crib.
Yeah.
Um, and then also the peoplearound you, the not so much the,
uh, not so much the, cause.
I mean, I, my, my, myupbringing, I never saw much had
a strong, like a family unit ofcousins and aunties and all that
different stuff.

(33:04):
Uh, but I've always, I've alwayssaid, uh, like that weird, like
you start building relationshipsin the community and those
people feel like family.
And so I would say that Firstfamily has always been, uh, uh,
my family.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Do you feel like family is part of your calling
or do you feel like family isseparate from your fault your,
your, your calling

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Are big, you can ever pull family from the car?
Um, I think, uh, when you lookat description, like,

Speaker 1 (33:40):
You know,

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Being about families and responsibility, it's not
even, you know, it's always apart of what you, what you do.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Uh, but do you sometimes like, feel that
tension, you know, like I'mgoing hard and man, they over
here, I know I've felt that

Speaker 2 (34:00):
I've been in that situation a lot of times where
you feel like, you know what I'msaying?
Like, do I need to reevaluateeverything I'm doing?
You know what I'm saying?
You know, the family is mostimportant.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Um, how do you incorporate raising five
beautiful children into yourcalling?

Speaker 2 (34:26):
The worst says, you know, uh, each child is like an
arrow, you know, to get to shoot, you know what I'm saying?
And, uh, you know, we shoot withthe kids tonight and we was at
the, I got them dribbling,catching footballs.
You know what I'm saying?
Um, you know, my son, he's sobrilliant, man.
He's a, he's so smart.
He not even fully a school yetand is working to read and it

(34:48):
just blows me away.
Like he was reading, Oh, is hislove sentences today?
And I just looked at him, I justput your work down, come give me
a hug, man.
You're so smart, man.
You know what I'm saying?
Um, you know, but I think like,like the conversations I've had
with my oldest, you know, about,you know, understanding the

(35:08):
world and, you know, she's at apoint now where like the
concepts, the, these, thesemature concepts about where we
fit in a world and, and youknow, how she has her worldview
are starting to be formed andshape.
And I think it's important to,you know, to have a voice in
there from us in that, you know,um, because as you train up a
child, that's the way they willgo as well.

(35:30):
They will come back to, andthat's what they, those, we have
moments with our children wherewe can, uh, you know, further,
uh, God's kingdom, uh, you know,raising up children that are
equipped to, to take, you know,make a difference in the world.
So I take the heavy, you knowwhat I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, man, man is my next question.
But what what's, uh, maybe likethe number one thing, you, you
leave with your children thatyou hope that sticks with them,
uh, when they grow up,

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Uh, their faith, you know, um, they, faith, I think
that's the core of everything.
You know, I, I hope that theywould always, always, you know,
know that, uh, God is enough andI hope that they will have the
integrity of the Holy spirit,because I think that will take

(36:26):
them a long way.
Nina, terribly walking in theHoly spirit.
Uh, and then lastly, I just, Ihope they, they have their
perseveres, you know, that they,they have strength to them.
You know, when life is hard, youknow, and hopefully they can see
that through my life and see itin my life as they continue to
watch me, you know, that whentimes get tough or things to

(36:47):
challenge and you don't give up,you lean hard, wrong, God, and
you clean to the spirit andthat's, that's how you remain
up.
Right.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah.
You've had, uh, various phrasesphases in your life that, uh,
you weren't always, you didn'talways have five kids.
And so does God call becausethere's some people here who
don't listen that are probably Suh, single or single parents,

(37:19):
um, or, you know, single, nokids, this God called them.
And from your experience, whatare some things they should be
listening for if they are tryingto hear his call?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, these, these calls andeverybody, I think, um, I think
people, they need to do somedeep soul searching about who
they are.
I think the, the start of thecalling is understanding your
identity and an identity kind ofshapes your perspective.

(37:55):
You know, I talk with kids andthey're locked up.
I got a buddy, um, he's he saidsomething profound, his name is
angel, but, uh, you know, our,our identity is formed by our
worldview.
Our identity is formed by, uh,our influences and then our
identity is formed by, um, our,our morals, what we think is

(38:17):
right or wrong.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I think, um, you know, ifidentity is, is, is the
beginning of where we can startto formulate where I call it is,
you know, who am I, what'simportant to me, you know, where
do I fit?
What, what is the things that Ibelieve are right wrong?
And then what am I influences?

(38:38):
Um, you know, I think that'sthe, the first question is a
figure out those things, youknow, uh, you know, it's harder
to, I wrote a bar about it, like, uh, it's hard to discern
right.
And wrong, you know, grounded inour scripture, you know, the
Bible says, it's like youswaying with the wind.
You know what I'm saying?
Uh, it's hard to, um, it's hardto move forward.

(39:04):
Uh, you know, when you, don't,when you're influenced by the
wrong things, you know what Imean?
Thinking about what influencesyou.
Um, I was influenced heavily by,uh, negative street culture.
I was influenced by a toxicfamily traits.
I was influenced by anger and mywhole life.
I was in seamless aboutnegativity, ignorance, you know,

(39:27):
and I didn't even see thosethings as bad, you know?
Uh, and then I think, uh, sowhen you start to get those
things, uh, where you can startto see those things, and then
you start looking at, okay, God,who am I, where does my life
molding makes sense in the sameGod, you know, you know, you've,

(39:47):
you've, you've created me thisthis way, and you've given me
these skills.
You've given me this talents andyou've made more heartbeat this
way about certain things, youknow?
And then it's, you know, I thinkyou asked this critical thing,
which is a scary thing to askGod.
We say, God, what is your willfor my life?
Not what can I, what is mycause?
You know, this is a differentthing.

(40:08):
You're will guys will versusyour ambition are two different
things.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And how do we, how do we, how do we separate those
two?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah.
Some people are chasing theirwill and putting in and forging
God's signature on it.
Something like this,

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Dang, that's a cold war, right?
They're chasing their will andputting God's sickness.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
And that's not an every person.
That's something I got to askmyself, is this, or is this
about right?
Or is this about God?
Is this about your family?
This is about you.
And that's hard.
Nobody wants to look in themirror and say, nah, I've been
going the wrong way.
I'd made these mistakes.
I'm off guard.

(40:50):
I'm misguided.
I've been influenced by my ownambition and my own lust of the
things that I want or how I wantmy life to look.
So I think the number onequestion is what is your Wilford
for my life?
And then when you exposed it tome, God gives me the strength to
submit to it.
Uh, knowing that you have wasbest for me.

(41:13):
Yeah.
You know, I think that's whereit starts.
You know, that's where the,those are the things that you
have to be listening for whenyou're trying to discern what
you're calling this.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Well.
I mean, how does your family fitin your calling and more
specifically, what are some ofthe pressures that you face you
face in trying to mix

Speaker 2 (41:34):
The two together?
Because there's so many of usthat, you know, are leading
families, lean businessesworking, you know, here, or
trying to, and we jumping outthere, investing in your family
is going to go way further thananything else you can invest in.

(41:55):
Like, yeah, elaborate on thatman into your family one.
And then not putting time inyour family will be the number
one thing that destroys yourlife.
And that'll be, be the numberone thing that causes you, the
most pain investing in thenucleus at your crew and

(42:19):
investing in the people that areimportant around you will take
you further and it has morekingdom implications.
Then you try and to build yourown SHR.
Correct?
Yeah.
Um, and I think it's a balance.
The harder you go for that, itgives you more because you know,
you go hard for whatever it isyou're doing.
You burn out, you need your Fyour family grounds, your family

(42:43):
grounds, you, your families,your family keeps you
accountable accountable to somedegree your family.
It keeps the, the what's in theY at the fruit of it.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
Why am I doing this?
It makes you measure your, itmakes you be more accountable
with your talent and your, Oh,you shouldn't cheat your family.

(43:05):
You shouldn't teach your familyand time or finances.
Um, that that's my experienceof, cause I been a person who've
made mistakes.
In other words, you know, so no,I hear you and I have to as
well.
Um, I wanna, um, I want to shiftto talking about pain, but

(43:25):
before we do that, um, do youthink people, God calls people
to cities and neighborhoods, gee, Oh man, I don't know why we,
this, it was like a wholemovement of man, like no divorce

(43:46):
, the idea of the American treeand especially not here in
Miami, like in Miami, there's somuch vanity, like it's people
that live with their mom, butpay it$900 car note on a billion
BMW.
You ran around in a brand new20, 20 rains road and you can't

(44:09):
pay money to get bills.
The only bill you pay is thatone.
And you, you know what I'msaying?
So I think there's this idea inAmerica was like, I got to get
that thing.
And, uh, and uh, we came fromlike, there was a moment we were

(44:30):
coming up, me and you, and this,when we were planting searches
and there was a whole synergyof, of these brothers going back
into the inner city and tryingto raise up a church of
indigenous people, just meaninglike churches that looked like
the people in the community.
And, um, and uh, you know, theidea was like, let's forsake the

(44:52):
stuff.
Let's move into hood.
Like let's, let's go into thecity, let's serve people.
Let's use all your resources andour time and our treasures.
And let's allocate them to theLord as best he fits kind of
like that X model where it'slike your, everything I had,
it's the churches like, youknow, say, you know, is for the

(45:13):
people, you know what I'msaying?
And um, I just think slowly,like, like that idea died.
Like it's like, it was like, hewas like, now I care more about
the stuff I need the house.
We want the house, the plan, thething I want the house in the

(45:34):
fall over then the security.
I don't want that other stuff.
That was, that wasrevolutionary.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
What do you think your calling to the tray and
specifically the CUNY Holmeswas, you know, you're going to
have to, uh, elaborate on thetray and CUNY homes.
Cause some people don't.
But, but, but, but, but tell usa little bit about what you
thought your calling there was.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yes, I was, I was living in, in Houston.
I was, you know, 18 years old.
And, uh, while I was living oncampus at rice university, which
is like in the medical center,downtown Houston area and they
kept calling the police on me,man.
Nobody believed that I actuallywent to school there.
So, um, man, I got a, you know,I got, uh, like, uh, apprehended

(46:23):
by the police on campus multipletimes because the police didn't
believe the police didn'tbelieve I went to school there.
The students didn't believe Iwent to school that people felt
threatened with me being oncampus.
I was like one of the very fewblack people on campus.
Um, one time I, you got to, Igot arrested in the shower, um,
during like finals week becausesomebody didn't think that I was

(46:45):
, uh, lived in that dorm.
And so, uh, very quickly I waslike, man, I, I don't feel
comfortable living on campus.
And so, uh, uh, I talked to mycoach about it and then, uh, I
said, Hey man, I want to moveoff campus.
And at the time I hear like, uh,they would give like players to
move off campus.

(47:05):
You would get like an$800stipend, right.
Stipe is supposed to cover yourrent.
And they're like, Oh, you're thefood.
Cause once you move off campus,you lose like half of your
meals.
Right.
So, so, um, we were try to splitthat hat was all right, cool.
I need to move in with somebodyI'm gonna spend$400 on rent.
I'm gonna spend like a hundreddollars on gas.

(47:26):
I'm gonna spend a hundreddollars on food and I gonna a
hundred dollars on my phone.
So I'm like that, you know whatI'm saying?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, I moved on up.
I realized quick races in themiddle of, you know, very rich
neighborhoods like the coralGables, the Houston.
So I realized very quick that,uh, uh, I couldn't afford to

(47:49):
live around her.
So, uh, what I did was I startedliving in, in the third water
and I felt comfortable.
Cause third wall reminded mevery much about it reminded me
of Fort Myers, Florida.
And um, so, uh, you know, Istarted getting invested.

(48:10):
I started plugging into church.
Good hope I met.
I met you.
You know, we started adoptingthe CUNY homes projects.
We started doing all kinds ofministry a Saturday and making
valuable key relationships.
I met a brother that's mybrother today named name Harrow
Harrow was managing cow Wayneand all these other up and
coming Houston rappers.

(48:30):
And he started managing me.
We started like doing ministryin the tray every week, every
day.
You know what I'm saying?
Boys at rice university wascalling me, uh, they was like,
man, uh, Ronnie, he's justRonnie over here.
Well, right across there, uh,two 88 that were turned into
black.
Jesus, you know what I'm saying?

(48:52):
I just, I mean, I, I fell inlove with making a difference
out there and uh, we built somany relationships.
We've not, we planted a churchthere.
Um, we started, you know, doingchurch on a project courts.
You know, we started like littlesmall house groups and tax
offices and bringing, you know,dope boys from the block into

(49:13):
the fold of the, you know,missional communities.
And it was just beautiful manrelationships, hip hop, um, you
know, uh, and there's, you know,so, so third war would admit to
me, um, and our ministry at thetime was it was ability that it
was, uh, it was one, like wewere experiencing it for ourself

(49:36):
.
It was the gospel tangiblychanged in the community and
tangibly, like with our eyes,seeing the gospel that Jesus
Christ changed people's lives.
So, Oh, go ahead.
Yeah.
So that's, that's, that's whatit was to me at the time.
It was, it was a journey of megrowing as a man, the

(49:58):
experiencing God, me seeing Goddoing amazing things and, and
really learning in him and beingtaught, uh, you know, one, I was
being discipled in that period.
And then I started disciplingpeople in that period.
And then all the things thatcame from that, me growing in
the music aspect, me growing upas a, as a professional, um, you

(50:19):
know, learning the ins and outsof the court system and, and
other systems that affect, um,did you just assist them?
So it was a lot.
So why

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Do you think God has you in Miami?

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah.
At the same time, I'm affordedworse, but the first 18 years of
my life in South Florida and,um, you know, I had a buddy, um,
who was planting a church inMiami, which is right in the
back woods of where I grew up.
And so, uh, you know, I feltthat army kind of weighing, like
at some point that you're goingto go back to what's home.

(50:52):
You know what I'm saying?
And, uh, I saw I wanted to raisemy kids around the family.
Uh, but at the same time, man, I, I, I didn't want to leave you
soon.
It was so beautiful.
Um, it was really, uh, a bunchof things happening.
And then I had an opportunity totake what I was doing on a small
scale and do it on a largerscale, um, through an
organization called youth forChrist, which I'm now the

(51:14):
director of juvenile justice.
I had opportunity to take this,um, pilot of what I was doing in
Harris County with our juvenile,um, youth and be able to expand
it to a, uh, a larger scale anddegree of, of, of life change,
um, with, you know, essentiallythe element that I grew up in.

(51:36):
And so I didn't see anybodyelse.
I, you know, nobody else wasgoing, was doing anything in
Miami.
Uh, it was these group of menand myself that were going to
make the change, uh, uh, youknow, so those, all those
factors were playing into it,

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Man.
That is crazy that you, you wentinto your work at, in Miami.
Cause I want to ask you somequestions about it.
Um, uh, so, so explain a littlebit about what you do and then
I'll ask my next question.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah.
Um, you know, um, um,politically involved in trying
to change legislation and try tomotivate, uh, influencing and
share my life experience with,uh, legislators.
And

Speaker 1 (52:25):
When you say legislation and change
legislation, what does thatmean?
And yeah,

Speaker 2 (52:30):
I realized, I realized that when you do a
program or when you do somethinglike, cause I was working on a
very micro level, when you eveneven doing your best, you have
the opportunity to affect asmall group, started affecting
legislation when you startedaffecting how, how people are

(52:52):
processed in the system thataffects a state or a state
affects a nation.
Uh, you know, when you startaffecting the resource at that
data, you know, there's just alarger scale of a degree that
you can change or impact alarger group life.
And so I saw that very quickly.

(53:12):
I had an opportunity.
One day I sat down with the, uh,Florida, uh, housing
representative member and, uh,this guy's name is Gus, a
Hispanic, older, Hispanic fellow, uh, ex football player.
And he was like, man, I did the,we did prison programs.
She's like, this is beautifulwork.
It's life changing work.
He's like, I just realize on alarger scale that we are putting

(53:35):
a bandaid on on honor, you know,it's like, we're putting tape on
a broken pipe, you know what I'msaying?
And, uh, you know, w and it, andit's a broken pipe in a hundred
different places, and it's just,you know, then you start
realizing there's just a similarthing that I saw while I was at
racial diversity.

(53:56):
It's like, when I was at riceuniversity, I realized very
quick, I was the blackrepresentative for any issue or
any time we talked about theblack race.
It was like, everybody's like,what is the black line?
And I, you know, and I wouldobliged you feel me, but then I

(54:17):
sat in that room and I think, Ithought myself like, dang, bro,
this room is going to be thepeople one day who make the
decisions for people that theydon't understand.
And then as I got older, Istarted realizing, especially in
this conversation, I'm havingwith Gus and house of
representatives.
He's like, bro, you getting it.
He's like, I'm a house ofrepresentative member.
And I realized these peoplecouldn't be further away from

(54:42):
the experience of these peopleup from the people that were the
communities that we come from.
Yeah.
However, they are makinglegislative changes on their
behalf.
And, uh, and when it goes towhat, just, whether it's in
terms of housing, whether it'sin terms of social services,
whether it's in terms ofpolicing, whether it's in terms

(55:04):
of juvenile incarceration,juvenile justice, all these
different things, there's peoplethat are so far removed from
what actually people are goingthrough and experiencing.
And a lot of times people likeyou or me never make it to those
, uh, platforms of, of influencebecause at some point, you know,

(55:24):
I don't know, but I just don'tsee a lot of our faces at those
levels.
Yeah.
I see more Miami is a, it's alittle different than makeup.
The racial makeup that here isdifferent than other places,
but, you know, um, and itdefinitely, there's no young
voices.
There's definitely no in tunevoices, you know what I'm
saying?

(55:45):
Um, so that, that's whylegislation is important to me.
And then also, um, you know,down here in Miami just had an
opportunity to really influence,uh, juvenile justice, how it
looks on a whole and how we canreally bring along services that
we think are crucial to kids.
What's number one is reentry.
So kid gets locked up, you know,how do we help him as he's

(56:07):
coming back in the community?
So he doesn't get really lockedup.
We feel like when we, when wedon't serve that part of the
community, like that crucialtender, because those kids who
would come in and out of jail,they're the ones that have been,
they're the ones that have beenpooped on by the education
assistant.
They're the ones that been givenup on.
And they're the ones when wecontinue to ignore them, they're

(56:30):
the ones that cause not cause,but become, you know, part of
the challenge of fatherlessnessand all this different stuff
that stems, you know, so it'slike, how can we serve them so
we can cut the root or cut apart of the issue at right at
the head.
So I believe in that as well.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
So, and it's a great setup because look, you're a
musician.
Um, what do you think thedifference would have been if
you thought your calling wasstrictly to make music and you
treated your job like a job, doyou think you would be in the

(57:14):
positions that you were in?
If you didn't see your calling,even beyond music,

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Uh, man, shout out to people in my life that told me
it was that, I mean, people likeyourself, people like Bonnie
Rodriguez, I'm a one time amonth.
Mum, the director of ourorganization, we had staff
meeting and she walked in withlike all the likes, reconciled
shirts on and stuff.
And I'm like, I usually try todress up to the staff meeting.
So she walked in there with at-shirt and is my teacher.

(57:46):
And I'm like, you know, and shepulled me aside and she was
like, you need to run all yourlanes and you need to merge the
worlds because it's unique, youknow?
And it's powerful.
And uh, you know, I used to tryto keep everything separate, you
know what I'm saying?
But I realized like, I need tojust fully be fully be me.

(58:08):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Places.
Yeah.
You do.
You see sometimes people who aregifted in one lane, maybe they
have a job doing something else.
Sometimes they cheat.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah.
There was, uh, the, they triedto get on the Bronto.
Who's the athlete that somebodyis somebody from a different
country.
It was trying to say, you know,LeBron just stupid basketball.
The brass son was more than anathlete.
Yeah.
You don't have an opinion onlife in America, come from the
projects.
If I'm saying you can't use itas his wealth and his influence

(58:43):
to make a change, he can't be asuperintendent of the school.
You know?
Like what, what's the, you know,let's do this, you know?
So I think that the things likethat, I think this is a good
point.
It's like everybody has theopportunity to be a world
changing influencer.
And I think we use everythingyou guys put inside of us.
And that's part of the fun.
And you can't, you know, I don'tthink our calling is one

(59:06):
specific thing.
It's a merger of all the thingsthat God's uniquely put in us.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
So let me, let me, let me, let me speak to somebody
directly here.
God, somebody is giftedmusically, but uh, the nine to
five is bagging, groceries,detention.

(59:32):
They feel, they really feelpassionate about this music,
but, but they're at this nine tofive.
What would you say to them tochallenge them, to push them?

Speaker 2 (59:46):
You really serious about this music.
You going to keep that nine tofive because the nap five funds
and the music

Speaker 1 (59:57):
W w w talk to us about that.
Cause you've been here, youyou've been here

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Is the times I've had two, three jobs.
You know, people don't know thatyou'll be there.
When did you first jump outthere and just do music by you
all just do music solely.
And I was like, Nope, I've had ajob the entire time that I've
done this whole day.
You know what I'm saying?
And not because like, you know,like, cause when you, when you
start looking at, when peoplestart asking the question, like

(01:00:23):
how can I only do one thing,maybe you really start
questioning you really askingthis?
How can I take the path of leastresistance?

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Oh, wow, wait, you get too much at me.
Uh,

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, somebody sent me, I just want to do this.
I just want to do that.
Who, who is you to think thatlife going to be so Kate, that
you could just do that and it'syou ain't gonna have to work and
it's, you ain't gonna have toget up and you want to be
privileged to do a certainthing, but you don't want to do
the hard work associated withit.
You feel what I'm saying?
That's like a kid coming to meand say, I just want to play

(01:01:00):
quarterback.
It's like, well, there's threequarterbacks.
So if you don't want to playNorth special teams and do some
other stuff you just named don'tmight not touch the field.
That's true.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah.
So w w so what would you say tohim?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I mean, you know, he got to evaluate his life, you
know, and be, um, be humble.
Don't let ambition override, um,responsibility.
Um, he got to think about hisfamily.
You know what I'm saying?
If he's working a nine to fiveand they're supporting his
family and it doing what he,what he loves means that he's

(01:01:36):
not taking care ofresponsibilities at the house
they're near, you know, hispriorities off, you know?
Um, but I think, uh, you know,if there's a way which you can
say, Hey, you know what, um,we'll continue to hold up on my
responsibilities.
I'm gonna keep this job becausenot only it keeps my bills paid.
Um, but the music really tookoff like that.

(01:01:57):
But I'm, I'm, uh, I'm a be verysmart with my finances and I'm
going to fund myself and I'mgoing to work hard and I'm going
to stay up at night and I'mgoing to do all the things that
I need to do in order to liveout passion, live with passion
and give myself a shot and notgive up on my train.
I remember my mom used to tellme, she was like, I had dreams

(01:02:18):
to this, this, this, this, andthat.
And she's like, when you wereborn, I gave up on all my
dreams.
Like as if to say like, uh, uh,you being born was like, you
know, I think what she wastrying to say was positive.
This you're trying to say youare more important than my
dreams.
And then I think a little bit ofthe inside of that was

(01:02:40):
resentment as well.
When you came my dream, I'msaying, and I heard that my deck
communicates anything.
I want to do this, this andthis.
But when you got, you know, whenyou were born, I had to like,
almost like Sam, I had to likewrestle with reality that those
things are, those are foolish.
And I need to do the nine tofive thing.

(01:03:02):
I need to do what everybody elseis doing.
I just need to secure somemoney.
Right.
And my question was, why didn'tyou do both ends?
Why did you sell yourself short?
Because when you sold yourselfshort on your own dreams, then
what you stopped, what you, whatyou, what you unconsciously did
was now you can't tell me how todream fully, because you gave up

(01:03:27):
on that part.
You can't tell me how to lookover the edge of the Hill,
because you never looked overthe edge of the Hill, or you can
tell me this.
And, and that's not a shadow.
Now, when does having a realdeal of conversation, talking
about purpose and stuff, my popset me down.
One time.
He showed me the bills.
This was like, me and him wasfist fighting, getting stuff.

(01:03:48):
And I was living with mygrandparents and I came over to
his house and he was, he is, hewas crying.
He has, since we're, since wecame, the house lights was off
different stuff, bills hadn'tbeen paid.
And then he showed me like a ATMreceipt and ATM was like, it was
negative bread and ATM, theaccount was negative.

(01:04:08):
Right?
And like, this is why I beatyou.
This is why I yell at you.
This is why I cussed at you.
This is why I don't accept youdoing, you know what I'm saying?
He's like, because I want morefor you.
Right.
And what he was trying tocommunicate was, and then what
he said was, you know, uh, youknow, uh, I want, I want more

(01:04:35):
for you than what I have formyself.
I don't want this life for you.
Right.
But I couldn't necessarily tellyou how to get other than just
try to note, try to beat, andyou don't do the wrong things.
I don't know what the rightthings you need to do.
Play football, make good grades.
But if I see you doing thethings that I know, he, right,

(01:04:57):
I'm going to beat that out ofyou.
So he knew how to, he knew howto discipline, but he didn't
know how to encourage, becausehe had nothing to encourage
with.
He didn't, uh, he hadn't, hehadn't experienced ways to, to,
to, um, to get somebody overthat edge, you know?

(01:05:17):
And, and to be honest, it's hardto do that.
People gotta have a self drive.
You know what I mean?
At some point self-drive isn'tis, is, you know, is, is, is
crucial at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
So last bank of questions dealing with pain, I
told you, we get here.
Um, do you ever ask God andmaybe I'm, I'm leading a little
bit.
I think I do.
Do you ever ask God, why am Icalled to pain?
And if you ever do, what does hesay?

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Oh, man, a tweet about this the other day.
I said, man, my pain put me offmy pain, put me off my pain.
My pain has createdopportunities for me to
understand, uh, it's createdopportunities for growth in my

(01:06:10):
own life.
It's given me perspective.
Um, and then I look at Romansfive, three through eight, you
know, the Bible says, no, no,count it all joy.
When you endorse certain trialsand tribulations, knowing that
those things tests yourcharacter, proven character, you
know, builds your faith.
And you know, if our faith is inChrist and when, you know, you

(01:06:34):
know, uh, you know, we don'thave nothing that we let you
know what I'm saying.
Like, cause he's the true hope.
And uh, I think, you know,mistakes and pain, a masterful
teachers, you know, so, uh, youknow, nobody wants to go through
it, why they're going throughit, but like paint is growing us
.
And I think sometimes pain, painsometimes is, is, um, necessary

(01:06:58):
for growth.
Um, and so I think without pain,uh, view, there's an immature
perspective.
There's your, you know, and yourperseverance is weak.
You know what I'm saying?
But paint sucks.
Paint is hard, you know, but,uh, I think there's this quote
that I live my life by you.

(01:07:19):
We willing to do a one or twopains in life.
Uh, the pain of hard work anddiscipline or the pain of
regret.
Oh, you know, and uh, pain is,you know, we're not promising.
And I thought about that, youknow, I thought when I, when I
accepted Christ that I wouldn'tendure a certain types of pains
and that certain things thathappened to other people in life

(01:07:41):
wouldn't happen to me just causeI got Jesus on my side, you
know?
And I think for the believer,the pain and the hardships in
life, they mold us and they makeus better.
And they draw us closer to God,uh, for, for the person that
doesn't know Christ.
I think the pain in thehardships in life, I'm into the
story and a meant to make lifeHorne and mid to make you feel
crumbling meant to be crippling,crushing.

(01:08:05):
Um, you know, but I think wehave an opportunity to the Lord
that we can use pain in a waythat grows us and helps us
change some shape and make thisplace or try to make the world a
better place.
And you know, I think pain isnecessary.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Um, Y Y you, you talked about, uh, the tweet
about pain and which leads me tomy next question.
Why does pain and dealing withpain feel like it's so much a
part of your work.
I hear other artists that I'm aChristian and it's very, it's

(01:08:45):
very, um, I mean, there's verystylistic differences.
It's like party music or, youknow, but so much of your music,
it's, it feels like pain is apart of the fabric of it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
You go pull up 62nd street and 13th Avenue in Miami
right now.
And the first five people thatwalk across you and ask, you
know, Hey, what's going on inlife.
They going to talk about theirpain because people in life are
dealing with pain, maybeeverybody.
But, uh, from where we comefrom, it's a lot of pain and

(01:09:19):
I'll, I wanted to speak hopeinto it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
It's almost, it's almost as if you, you don't, you
don't want to cheat youraudience by having them walk
away and think that life is anyless harsh than it is.
Uh, because when you don't cheatthem and tell them the truth,

(01:09:48):
you can then pivot them to hope.
Um, and then naked, you know,it's, it's kind of like that,
you know, if the room is burningand I tell them NAS,
everything's fine.
And I walk out, I watch a burn.
I'm not really helping them.
But if I tell them the truthabout what it is, this is what
the situation is.
Then when I say run and get out,you know, the doors open,

(01:10:11):
there's a God has made away.
They can appropriatelyappreciate the message of hope
when they understand that we'reliving in brokenness and pain.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
It's like, uh, it's like, it's like sitting in the
room and people know the room isburning and they feel like
there's nothing they can doabout them.
And then you come in the roomand you don't acknowledge that
the room is burning.
You try to get them to say, Aw,man, you in a sauna.
And I'm saying, it's not, youknow, uh, let's just smile and

(01:10:50):
effect is like, I don't evenknow how, like, I think that's
why people stop listening.
A lot of times to, I hate to saythis a little bit.
Like, you know, certain, certainpeople doing, Oh, nothing, Jesus
man.
Cause it's like, bro, youcouldn't be any more removed
from what I'm actuallyexperiencing.
You know what I'm saying?
You, you, on Sunday morningcouldn't be any more removed and

(01:11:12):
what feeling in my heart, youcouldn't be any more removed of
what you're speaking about inyour theology, in your doctorate
.
And you trying to break downthe, this and this in certain
ways.
It's like, man, bro, I just gotmy lights cut off.
I just went through thissituation.

(01:11:33):
I can get access to my kids,speak to me.
Yeah.
And I think, I think man, peoplejust be missing it.
And I don't know if it's just,they're not around people
enough.
They live in on a, in a silosand people are experiencing hard
things.
And that's why I see it.

(01:11:53):
And I think, I think stand soclose to juveniles, stand so
close to people that you know,to communities.
And it helps me be grounded.
I can't just go on and go to myhouse and you know, hang out
with my kids.
And everything's all Willy nillywhen I know the world's not
Willy nilly.
You know what I'm saying, man?

(01:12:15):
Um,

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
I want to close on some hope.
D can you, cause I know it'sgoing to be people that watched
it that are watching and we'llwatch.
Um, you know, we, we, I, I wasgoing in with, uh, attributed to
OB.
We already kind of talked aboutthat in the beginning, but I
want to give you an opportunityto speak to some people, um,

(01:12:39):
about the hope of the gospel.
So I'm gonna just turn it overto you and give you a few
minutes to do that as we close.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
No, the words is broken.
It's the world is falling.
I seen as creative, even abigger gap between us and God.
And we love to do the thingsthat hurt us, ourselves and
other people.
And that's, that's pretty muchwhat sin is.
Things that destroy us andothers and dishonor.
God God says in his word says inRomans that even though we know

(01:13:13):
what we're doing is ratchet.
We put other people know to doit with our speed of swept, to
save blood.
We're all these negative things.
And for the reason like we enjoyit.
It's words deeply broken.
Uh, again, God sent his son intocreation.
The Bible says John three 16,God sent his son into the world.

(01:13:34):
Whoever believes in him shallnot perish, but have everlasting
life.
A lot of people don't, you don'textend to the John three 17 says
God did send his son into theworld to condemn the world.
He didn't send his son into theworld to say, y'all, y'all
ratchet on the son of God.
Everybody bound me.
But he sent his son into theworld to save Jesus.

(01:13:55):
You know, the Bible says that,you know, he submitted himself
to God, to the point, even on across, you know, on a cross, he
says, father, forgive them.
They know not what they do.
I came live the perfectrighteous life, never sent,
always deal with please thefather.
And I even took the cross, evenme lady and see the Lord Jesus

(01:14:18):
saying that God there's anyother way, but this cross he
says, but I will submit to you,God, your will not my own your
will.
I'm talking about purpose andyour will not mine, even though
your way is hard.
And even cause for me tosacrifice my life, your will not

(01:14:38):
my own.
It gets on a cross.
And he becomes the propitiationexchange, uh, his life for our
sin.
He's, you know, he takes all ofGod's wrath that should have
been intended towards us.
And he takes that wrath on thechin.

(01:14:58):
He swallows death.
None of us have been punishedfully or punished adequately for
the sin that we've lived in ourlife.
None of us have been, have, havephysically endured any ounce of
hell other than the Hill thatwe've been doing on this earth,
but not the Hill.
The physical separation fromGod, the place that the Bible

(01:15:20):
describes this place, wherepeople, where there is weeping
and gnashing of teeth, wehaven't experienced that.
But Jesus has.
He took it three days later, heRose, uh, in our power gas and
I've given him the name aboveall names because he's done only
the thing that nobody else waswilling to do or even could do.

(01:15:42):
And didn't live the life to be,be worthy to do.
He's the perfect sacrifice.
And because of this, I give himthe name above all names.
And if you believe in him, youshall not perish, but you shall
have everlasting life justbelieving that he actually did
this thing for you.
Right?
And because he Rose has greatimplications, that means that he
has to feed his sin.

(01:16:02):
It means that he does have theauthority to forgive our sins.
It means that he does have theability to change our lives.
And then Jesus says, if youbelieve in me, I will send you
the help.
And that helper as his Holyspirit, the Holy spirit of the
Lord allows us to make, to livethis life in the best way that
we can, but we can't do it onus.

(01:16:23):
On our own.
We are wicked apart from God,anything that he's doing inside
of our life.
And he gives us the opportunity,uh, to live alongside his spirit
and his spirit to consult usthrough life in that
hopelessness, this impossiblething that is called life of the
right way.
And then he gives us theministry of reconciliation to

(01:16:44):
bring all things that werebroken and destroyed by our sin,
by agree, bar murder, barracism, and to repair those
things and bring them righttowards before God.
And that's the gospel, the good,the good news that God sent his
son to repair this broken world.
And, um, and we all have theopportunity, the ability to

(01:17:06):
accept that into our lives.
It's a walk in there and it's a,I made that decision in my life
and it's been the mostbeautiful, life-changing most
encouraging, most empowering.
And the thing that's reallysaved me from myself and I
invite anybody.
Who's listening to walk on theirjourney.
I'm not perfect as a human beingme specifically.

(01:17:28):
I'm not perfect.
I make mistakes.
I make, I, you know, I've agreedmy own self and the things that
I've done, but you know, Goddoesn't judge me on that.
He's already forgiving me on thecross for everything that I do.
And I continue to do that don'tmean that I can seem to, you
know, do things that grieve him,you know, put his son back on
the cross by my actions, but inthe same way that, uh, you know,

(01:17:53):
Bob says, you know, why wouldyou continue to do the things
that Jesus died for?
And you know, so for me, thecalling is everyday that I get
up, I want to walk closertowards the Lord.
I'm not perfect, but I'm, I'mtrying to allow his spirit to
work through me to be a betterman everyday from my family and
fluid, you know, the person thatGod's called me to be.
And it's a beautiful thing Ihave actually on that journey.

(01:18:13):
If you listen and you're like,bro, I'm looking at my life is
ratchet.
I'm from broken out, destroyingmyself.
I don't know what to do.
I would employ you to turn toGod before it's too late.
There's a song, uh, railroadcars be down the street.
Third water used to sing.
The song is bed.

(01:18:33):
They know, and Jesus, it getsbetter as the days go by.
You ought to know him, get toknow him ride today.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
Listen, y'all um, uh, if you manreach out to rec reach out to
me, if you, I think somebody is,uh, who's listening to, this is
seriously considering making adecision to trust Jesus as their
Lord and say, as their Lord andsavior, he is your Lord.

(01:19:09):
You just going to recognize himas Lord.
And as the Lord who wants tosave you, man, just reach out to
us, req working, they reach you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Um, mean you can reach me right here on whatever
platform you're looking at.
Um, know Jackson.
Okay.
And I'll say it's probablysomebody, you know, uh, in
whatever local context was apastor, somebody close, more
close than we can be.
Uh, they can really walk youthrough that decision and keep
you accountable to it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Yeah.
And, and, uh, man, if you justlooking for some referrals or
whatnot, man just hit us up.
We more than happy to help, uh,push you towards, uh, some local
body rec man, it's been apleasure to have this
conversation with you.
Um, you drop some gyms that Ithink will bless some folk.

(01:20:00):
Um, you, you drop some hope, um,and, and mean in some difficult
times.
And I know that we, um, we we'veseen some death man, um, in this
last year.
So, uh, man, I, I also thinkthat you cannot have a
resurrection unless a deathhappens.

(01:20:23):
Cause without a death, what youhave is a revival, but you don't
have a resurrection.
And so man, I think that none ofthese people who have died and I
, you know, our friends and ourfamily have died in vain.
Um, I think the harvest, we'regoing to see the harvest this

(01:20:44):
year and believe in that.
Um, and so, um, let me, let'suh, I'm I'm to lead out with
some prayer.
Why mys lead out with somepraying we out, um, father, we
thank you for all that you do.
Lord.
Um, my brothers and sisters inthe tray, I brothers and sisters

(01:21:04):
in Miami be with them.
Lord, we pray God that as yourgospel goes for a man just
through the various channelsthat it does lower, we noticed
we've heard it in the past.
And some of these people haveheard in the past, bring it back
to their remembrance and law.
When you reap the harvest ofpeople coming into your kingdom,
working out, they're callingwith fear and trembling.

(01:21:26):
We pray Lord that all thesethings, God, um, would be, um,
we would remember them and wewould glorify you and jump for
joy because we know that eventhrough the pain, uh, Jesus is
Lord it's in Jesus name.
We pray.
Amen man.
Peace bro.

(01:21:48):
Love you too.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
[inaudible].