May 18, 2021 • 52 mins
Mike Dixon is a worship leader, recording artist, and a Grammy-nominated songwriter. Mike comes from an athletic family and is 6 foot 5 inches. He seemed destined for sports, but after attending a music clinic at his local church, it was clear that music was his calling. Mike is passionate about leading worship, and he educates us on what it really means to lead in worship. His songwriting is vulnerable, which admittedly causes him to wrestle with God, but that’s what makes his lyrics so powerful. Join us as we talk to him about what it means to be committed to calling even at your own expense.
Check out his latest songwriting venture: The Sustainer -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsp8P6Aod0
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yo, I have this, this pleasure of being with the
Michael Dixon worship songwriter, Christian Love of people
, uh, and the, uh, producer andarranger of the album sustainer.
(00:35):
And you guys have to listen tothat album.
He's also got a debut albumcoming up and I want to talk to
him about calling and so give awarm round of applause for our
brother Michael Dickson.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's up, everybody.
What's up.
What's
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Up, man?
What's up.
What's up.
What's up.
So before this, we were talkingabout man, uh, you know, going
into the conversation, but wewere talking about man, what it
looks like for us to, uh, forover this last year and a half
do ministry during the pandemic.
(01:12):
And, uh, you were talking aboutGod's call for us to minister to
the world.
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
A simple God never wanted us to be confined to our
church building.
Um, and I think we gotaccustomed to doing the routine
of church.
So to the building on Sundaymorning, go to the building
Bible study.
(01:44):
Cool.
During the week, God is kind ofsecond tier until we get back to
church on Sunday, we'll flyhome, fly four hour hours
already, and then back toregular life during the week.
And we just kept spreading certsacross from my house.
(02:07):
They go all day, but it's likeduring the week we, we just, we
go back to regular life.
Then I think we got into thathabit into that ritual.
And God had to shake that upbecause who is ministering to
those who are not in the church?
How do we reach those people?
(02:28):
And I think this pandemic hasgiven us the opportunity to
re-invent re-evaluate our callto go out into the world and
make disciples.
And we've had to do that becausenow there wasn't a church
building during the pandemic asyou didn't go into it.
(02:49):
So how do I not only reach mycongregation, but now because
we're in this virtual world, I'mreaching people who are probably
would have thought about, oreven wanted to connect to
because now I'm in this virtualworld and anyone has access to
it.
Um, so I think God kind ofpushed us to use this technology
(03:11):
that we've had for years to ouradvantage and for his glory,
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Man.
It's crazy.
Why do you think we, and when wesay we were talking about those
of us who do vocational ministry, uh, Mike is a worship leader,
a songwriter, um, minister ofmusic.
Uh, those of us who dovocational ministry, whether we,
uh, preach or lead worship, leadworship, and song for a living,
(03:42):
why do you think we didn't usethe technology before this?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Uh, I think we had gotten complacent.
Um, I think it, it became habitto do what we were used to
doing.
Um, like, like, well, I'll tellyou, I'll put my church.
For example, we have a set offlow lists.
So how we do service and I'vebeen there for about four years
(04:09):
now.
And the flow of service haspretty much been the same.
I can do it in my sleep.
I know exactly what's coming atthis point, this point, this
point, this point.
And so this pandemic shook upthose points to where we can't
flow the same.
So now we have to figure outwhat do we do now?
(04:31):
Right.
So I think, I, I really thinkthis pandemic has been a huge
blessing to the body of Christ.
And I'm hoping that when we goback into our normal routine,
that we don't lose those, thelesson and the lesson that was
in this past year and a half.
(04:51):
And
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You, you, you, you hit that nail on the head.
So a little bit about you, man.
Um, where are you from andwhat's your journey to Christ?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Uh, absolutely.
Um, I am Texas born.
I was born in Marshall, Texas,randomly.
Um, but raised in Houston.
Uh, my family is actually fromTexarkana.
If you don't know where that is,it's close to Arkansas.
Uh, so I have a country family,but I was raised in the city,
uh, been doing musicprofessionally, uh, since about
(05:27):
2010.
Uh, I've been a worship leaderfor now 14 years.
Uh, been a songwriter, um, allof my life professionally, since
2010.
Um, I'm Grammy nominated as asongwriter, so that's, that's
dope.
(05:49):
Um, and music is my passion.
Uh, and it's also my purpose andyeah, that's me,
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Man.
So, um, w when did you come toChrist and what's the story
behind that?
It's always the same
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And my story is a little different, uh, than most
people in my position.
Uh, I didn't grow up in church.
Uh, my family are, are, areChristians.
Um, and we went to churchperiodically, but it wasn't a
every week thing.
I wasn't, as they call them afew babies.
Um, I wasn't in church for Biblestudy and choir rehearsal and
(06:30):
all of that, that, that justwasn't my family.
My mom, uh, was a coach, uh, meand my brother, we were heavy
into athletics.
Um, so that kind of consumed ourlife.
Uh, but my mom always made surethat I did.
I played basketball.
I played football for a moment.
Didn't like it ran track also.
Didn't like it, um, basketballwas, was kind of my thing.
(06:56):
And so that, and that's my, myfamily, like athletics is in my
jeans and I'm also six, five.
So
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Can't help it.
They're going to push you outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, it just had to do it.
Um, but yeah, it didn't grow upin the church.
Um, I came to know Christ, um,when I was 16, uh, there was a
music workshop at the churchthat we were attending.
(07:30):
Uh, and my mom let me attended.
It was like a week long thing.
Uh, and Donald Lawrence was the,uh, the clinician of the
workshop.
Um, and yeah, from there, uh, Iwas introduced to Christ and I
can remember I was 17 when Iactually accepted Christ into my
(07:52):
life.
Um, and from there on, this hasbeen all I've known and all of
that.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And, uh, so you were at this, uh, clinic.
What about the clinics, third?
You, what, uh, what about itmoved you and what did you feel
while you're at that clinic?
It said, man, um, I feel like, Ifeel like I'm a follow Jesus or
at that point you were thinkingabout it.
(08:19):
I know you were 16 at the timeyou made the transition at 17,
but what about that clinic?
Like was the, was the impact infactor for you?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, first it was the music.
Um, I've always loved music.
And around that age, I wasgetting heavy into music and
kind of putting sports on theback burner.
Um, so watching DAMA Lawrence,if you don't know who he is,
look him up.
He's a master at his craft andwatching him, uh, going through
(08:49):
this music and explaining themeaning of some of the songs.
It just really opened my eyes.
And then we were singing a songby him.
That's called, uh, uh, seasons.
Uh, it says, I feel seasonedeverywhere.
I feel blessings in here[inaudible] and so he was
(09:11):
explaining the lyrics.
And for some reason, I, I reallyhad no idea what the song was
speaking about, but for somereason, the song was speaking to
something in me.
Cause I made I'm 16 at the time.
I haven't really experienced,seasoned changes that in that
(09:33):
fashion, you still, butsomething about the music, the
melody, the way he wasexplaining the message, it was
speaking to something in me atthe time.
I didn't know what it was, butnow I know it was speaking to my
spirit man.
And that moment opened up thedoor for me to actually accept
(09:57):
Christ.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so you're 17.
Where were you when you madethat decision to follow him and
uh, yeah.
Where, where are you?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Uh, so I was 17 and, um, my mom has started going to
the fountain of praise here inHouston.
And, um, I joined the youthchurch.
Uh, it was called the rock andjoin the youth choir or
whatever.
And there was a minister who waslike the guest preacher for the
(10:31):
youth service.
Um, and he simply laid out Jesusand all that.
He said it was really simple.
It was like, it was like areally high moment in the
service.
And he was like, what you guysare feeling is the love of
Christ.
And if you want to feel thislove of Christ for the rest of
(10:51):
your life, take this moment toaccept them into your heart.
That's all he said that I waslike, well, yeah, I like this
feeling.
I want to feel this.
And so boom went up for thealter call and they took me to
the dislike back room.
It was me and a couple otherpeople.
And, uh, whoever the person wasworking, the auto, as they say,
(11:16):
um, laid out what salvationmeant.
Um, so the minister laid out,this is basic Jesus.
And then someone took the Alliewho, and laid out salvation.
Um, and that, that, that wasthat.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wow.
So then from that moment at 17,okay.
You talked earlier about alreadybeing in music.
What, what were you thinkingbefore or what I'm just curious.
Um,
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Hm.
So I was raised on music likeMichael Jackson, earth, wind and
fire Luther Vandross.
That's what my mom was playingaround the house.
So yeah, the good stuff.
And, um, by way of Missy Elliottof all people, um, I came into
(12:22):
contact with the Clark sistersand that took me down this path
of gospel music.
Um, because then at that time,the foul sharing was really big,
like Napster and, uh, and allthat stuff, slime wire.
And so through this Elliot,having them on one of her songs
(12:48):
and me searching them out on theinternet, I found all of this
gospel music from your CurtFranklins to, you know, Yolanda
Adams and Hopkins and Andrecrouch and all of that stuff.
And so by the time that, that,uh, that clip, that clinic tech
come around, I had already beenfamiliar with Donald Lawrence
(13:11):
and his music.
Um, so that's, that's how thatall kind of tied together.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And, and so there's this love of gospel music that
you had even before you wouldsay, uh, what, what then
proceeded that shift to say,okay, I wanna, I feel called, so
did you feel a call to, uh, tosing gospel?
(13:41):
Did you feel a call to worship,uh, to, to, to lead worship?
How was that for you?
I don't, I don't know how thatprocess started.
Cause I remember when you gotyour first gig, well, I won't
say gig your first job cause Iwas there, but I don't remember
how you got there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Um, college was really the breeding ground for
that.
Um, I had a, a band teacher inmiddle school, um, who stay
connected with my mom and me.
And he always told my mom do notpush him to do sports, make him
do music.
That's where he's going toExcel.
(14:22):
And my mom took those words fromhim.
And throughout the years, shenever, even though my family
lineage was athletics, she neverpushed that on me.
She saw that I was interested inmusic and she did all that she
could to cultivate that.
And so once I got to college,um, is when everything really
(14:43):
started to, to hit, uh, startedreally heavy and songwriting.
Um, I developed my own group,Michael Dixon and vision.
Um, and they were religious, um,of platform for me to work out
these songs that I was writing.
(15:03):
Um, and from there, uh, therewas a little church in the PV
area and Waller, um, that I wasat the time leading worship.
I didn't know what that was.
I was just singing some songs atthe beginning of the service,
Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know, I think it takes time to either figure out
what it is that we're, we'rereally working out a gift, but
we, but it hasn't really met thecall or the responsibility yet.
It's like, you know, and so Ithink it's a process for all of
us.
So you were at, uh, Prairie viewa and M university.
(15:43):
Yeah, I was there.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Um, I was there and there was a church close by that
was sent a bus to pick us up andtake us to serve it.
And so through that, I startedsinging there on Sunday morning.
Uh, like I said, leadingworship, not knowing that that's
what I was doing.
And, um, there was a guy Feb inthe band with me who worked at
Goodwill.
(16:06):
Uh, he was the keyboard playerthere, David Harris.
And he had heard me sing andtold me that they were having
auditions for a worship leader.
And I was like, well, sure, I'lltry.
I can sing a little.
Why not?
Let's so came down to Houstonaudition for Chad and he was
(16:29):
like, you're not ready.
And so I was like, okay.
And literally like maybe a yearlater check called me and was
like, would you like to leadworship for our youth service?
I'm like, sure.
And so through that relationshipwith Chad, I learned how to be a
(16:52):
worship leader.
I learned everything that Icould about that.
And
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So, so for the uninitiated, what is the
difference?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Huge difference.
Um, first off worshiped bleedingis less about your vocal ability
and more about how you are ableto facilitate, um, worship in a
service.
Uh, we always, uh, you'veprobably heard the phrase that,
you know, we sing to an audienceof one which has got, that is a
(17:28):
true phrase, but as a worshipleader, it's your responsibility
to get the congregants on thesame accord to sing to that
audience of one.
So it's your responsibility tofacilitate those moments.
Um, and just because you cansing doesn't mean that you're
able to facilitate worship.
(17:50):
It goes way beyond your vocalability and more so enter your
relationship with God
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Who is funny.
We, we, I mean, we w we knoweach other, so you know,
somebody and we know the insideball and all of that, but I
mean, I don't know how manyservices I've sat through where
I'm like, man, is he seguing forhimself or seeking for
themselves?
Or are they going to help, youknow, all of us seeing with
(18:22):
them, you know, and one of thethings I've learned is really
to, to worship lead.
Sometimes it helps not to have agreat voice because then that
actually helps other people tosay, okay, I'll help.
He, or she to sing.
I don't know how many times I'vehad to like improvise, you know,
(18:45):
Hey, like, oh bro, bless hisheart.
I got, I've got this.
I got did.
People will say, oh, you you'relike, okay, well, my job is done
.
My boys have to be sacrificed atthe altar of people worship
(19:11):
though.
So I've always been amazed atyour ability.
I mean, personally, at yourability to make, you can sing
like nobody's business, right.
But the control and the humilityto say right now, I have a job
(19:31):
to do.
I need to do that job.
And I've, I have witnessed andheard other people who didn't
know the difference were like,yo, what just happened?
And me knowing and understandingwhat it means to lead worship.
It's hard to communicate that topeople.
(19:52):
Well, cause they're like, you'llhave been in all these services
here, there in the other.
And I'm like, yeah, E'sfacilitating worship for
congregation.
He can do it with his words.
He can do it with a song he cando with half a song he can do
with pieces of a song because herealizes it's, it's not even the
(20:13):
song itself.
It's how do I get you to just,you know, come along for the
journey and then begin to singto your Lord, man.
And it's like, I mean, I hate tosay like a magician, but really
what it is.
You're, you're, you're promptingpeople without saying, y'all
(20:34):
sing the song, sing the song.
And you know, I would've stoppedthis, but I don't know how many
times I've seen people fussabout people singing the song.
And you're like, well, if youslow down and you sing the song,
(20:54):
you know, add a key that theycan sing the song at, or at
least facilitate their abilityto sing that song.
They would sing the song.
They, they want it.
This is the only opportunity inthe whole service that they get
to participate.
They want to participate, butyou gotta, you gotta make, you
gotta make room for them.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
That's it.
You gotta make room for that.
And like you said, you have tobe able to have enough humility
to dumb down your abilityvocally, to where you make this
not about you.
So the view up there, givenevery trick and riff and run
(21:40):
that you have in your arsenal,like people are going to start
paying attention to what you'redoing and being fascinated by
your ability.
And you've, you've losteverything.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Uh, speaking of that, and I've always wanted this.
How were you able, yo, that'shard.
I mean, we, we gloss over this,but that's very hard to do for
people who are up frontpreachers singers to say, I'm
going to dumb.
I mean, what is like, did youhave tension?
(22:14):
Did you feel a certain like,man, I mean, I really need to,
this is my moment to sign andI'm not getting this shot.
Like what, what, and you did itat an early age.
So what is happening in your,your heart, your mind?
Like, is there a war it's justopened us up to that?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Um, well two things, one I, I realized early on that
nothing that I do, especially ina service is about me.
Um, I think coming to thatrealization and realizing that
I'm not the important piece, God, so everything that I do needs
(22:58):
to direct attention to him.
Um, and I think another thingthat has helped me in so many
areas, um, my first love issongwriter and I studied like
all of the pop songwriters andthey are amazing storytellers.
And I've been able to infusethat storytelling into
(23:21):
everything that I do.
So with storytelling, what makesa great story teller is being
able to translate whatever isneeded from the story to the
person that's listening.
So if my agenda, my goal is togive all the attention and glory
(23:41):
to God, how can I convey that,telling this story?
So if the words for this song ishow great is our God, I need to
make sure that the emphasis ison the greatness of that.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And so how would you do that?
You know, there might be worshipleaders out there who are like
struggling, earnestly,struggling, like how do they do
that?
So I just want a platform toteach them a little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Um, so I'm always aware of, well, let me, let me
start that over, um, your, yourtreats, your runs, your ribs,
all of the intricate things thatyou can do at your voice is just
ornamentation and what makesthose things work is placement.
(24:42):
So when you're telling a story,you have to figure out what is
the important take away fromthis story that I'm telling.
So if the line is how great isour God, what's the important
word in that sentence.
It's great.
You're speaking of the greatnessof God.
So how do I accent great inthat, in that line?
(25:05):
So I have to figure out a way tomake that word emphasize.
So maybe I add a little, alittle run here or add a little
something here to make that wordstand out over saturate that
line with ornamentation, becausenow the word, how is it besides
(25:27):
the word great is emphasize, theword is, is emphasized.
And so now the person listeningto the story doesn't know what
the important portion of thestory is because you have
overemphasized every piece ofthe story.
So finding out what is importantand how to emphasize.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So give us an example of how people don't understand
how to do it.
We'll do it the way you think itought to be done,
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What you mean.
So someone who doesn'tunderstand may do it.
So that's just one phrase andyou've added so much what was
important.
(26:25):
So if I'm trying to emphasizethe word great, how great is
that?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Just that simple.
Wow.
The accent is on the grade.
You're wanting people to see howgreat it is.
But if I, if I'm riffing throughthe whole song, then the song,
the meaning, the meaning of thewords are less important than
the melody.
(26:56):
The person is singing.
Hey, I didn't even know
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That I, that I have to think about while singing.
So this is like on the spotstuff.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So, so you, so in some choicesfor you, I don't know if this is
true for you would be better topick songs.
You understand how to you, thatyou would understand how to tell
story the story rather than topick a new song that you might
not be as familiar with.
(27:28):
I don't know.
W how, how do you, is that true?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Um, it, it's true.
Uh, in most cases, uh, I've beendoing it for so long that I'm
kind of accustomed to figuringout what's important in a song,
even if it's a new song.
Um, but yeah, one thing practiceis always important.
Um, you can never over practicesomething, uh, in, in my
(27:58):
opinion.
Um, so yeah, practicing and, andlearning one.
What is this song talking about?
Uh, I think too many times wejust sing songs maybe because
they're popular or because Ilike the song, but sit down and
evaluate what the song isactually saying.
(28:19):
And what's the message in thesong.
Um, because sometimes you'llfind out that some of these
songs, especially on the gospelside are not speaking the truth
of that.
Um, so you got to reconcile that, um, and then to know how to
minister this song, I need toone, let the song minister to me
(28:40):
and to let know what the song isactually speaking of.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So, uh, shifting gears here, do you feel called
to do what you do and why?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Uh, I know that I'm called to do this.
Uh, sometimes I wish I wasn't, Iwould much rather be doing
something with a little lessresponsibility and a little more
ease.
Um, but I know that this is mycalling, uh, and I, I try to, to
(29:14):
, um, I try to make sure thatI'm representing God is as best
as I can with this call.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah.
Um, when you hear the wordcalling, what does that, what do
you feel and what does that meanto you?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Um, something that I had to learn early on, um,
calling and purpose, uh, is notalways what you're passionate
about.
Um, and I think, and that's, ofcourse that's, that's
generalized and that's not everycase, but I think a lot of times
people mix up their passion andtheir calling.
(29:55):
Uh, sometimes it's not alwaysthe same thing.
Um, you can be passionate toteach, but you're calling to be,
um, I don't know, to be adoctor.
You don't know, you just, theydon't always match up.
Um, but, but calling, I think,you know, when, especially when
(30:15):
it's, when it's a divine calling, um, I think, you know, then
it's divine one because it'ssomething that has been pulling
on your heart.
Um, and no matter what you do orhow much you try to quote
unquote, run from it, it'salways pulling on you.
(30:36):
Um, and it's something thatmentally, you always go back to.
Uh, and that, to me, that,that's what, that's how you can
know that it's a common, haveyou ever wanted to give up?
Well, you already know, uh, allthe time, um, uh, edit it's for
(31:07):
me.
Um, because I'm a songwriter andGod has blessed me with the gift
of writing.
Um, but I write from such apersonal place and it's gotten
to the point, so whereeverything that I write I have
to go through and I hate, I hateit.
(31:31):
There've been times where I'vesaid to God, like, why do I have
to go through for everybodyelse?
Like, I've had some realconversations with guidelines,
so yeah, I've definitely wantedto give up, man.
(31:51):
It's what kept you going?
I like that.
I see what you did there.
Uh, really got every, every timeI kid you, not every time I've
(32:12):
been in that space of wanting togive up, God will send somebody
to my DMS or text messages orsomething, telling me how a song
that I've written has gottenthem through a situation.
And that one, it lets me knowthat, okay, um, I'm operating in
(32:34):
my purpose.
I'm doing what I'm supposed tobe doing.
Let throw my pride aside andkeep on going.
And two, it just, it just makesme realize that though, I've
gone through all of this andI've suffered for this.
It was for a reason.
And knowing that what God hastaken me through has let
(32:56):
somebody else that's enough tokind of keep me going.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Amazing.
Um, I want to talk about some ofthe songs that you've written,
but before we get to that, I'vegot some lightning round
questions for you.
Scale of one to 10, how good areyou at keeping secrets?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'm going to have to go with a 10 on that.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
It is as you and I speaking, I think I'm a 10 as
well.
Like we, we, we, we got to justwe'll talk offline.
Ariella, Jasmine, Jasmine
Speaker 2 (33:53):
First celebrity crush.
So most people probably won'teven notice is she's still my
celebrity crush.
It looks exactly the same.
Our name is a non dilutes.
She was a VJ on MTV back in thenineties.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think I remember who she dated, but okay.
We talk afterwards,
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Donna dusk.
I'm going to say desk because Ihate waking up.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Okay.
All right.
Oh, so you're like me.
I'm a night owl.
If you could travel back intime, what period would you go
to?
Um,
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Good question.
Um, I want to say a period oftime that I've never
experienced, but I love thenineties so much that I would
probably have to go back andexperience that goodness again.
(35:13):
Okay.
Do you snore?
I do.
I have sleep apnea.
Unfortunately, listen
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Place, you, you most want to travel?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
There are two places I want to go to, uh, to, to
Tokyo for some reason.
Uh, but I really want to go tothe UK.
Never been, I was wanting to go
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Favorite childhood TV show
Speaker 2 (35:54):
As a hard one.
Um, that's a hard one.
Uh, there was a show that cameon Nickelodeon called legends of
the hidden temple.
It was a game show.
I think that would be myfavorite,
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Uh, favorite season out of the four seasons.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
My favorite season is winter when we have it.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
When we have it
Speaker 2 (36:27):
This past winter, it was a little extreme.
Oh yeah, no, it was crazy.
We got it all in one weekend.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Uh, Halloween, did you do Halloween?
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So people don't look at me differently.
Don't think about medifferently.
I am a huge, huge fan of horror.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay.
Like
Speaker 2 (37:02):
To the point to where, if the FBI looked at my
computer, they're probablywatching anyway.
They would probably think I'm aserial killer.
I love everything involving
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Or, okay.
So did you, did you, uh, whatwas your last Halloween costume
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Last Halloween costume?
Uh, what was I?
It was for work.
Um, it was like a play onMichael Myers and Jason, uh, but
it was like a split between thetwo,
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Uh, cake or pie from Sam's.
Okay.
And do you ever postinspirational quotes on social
media?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Not often.
Maybe like once or twice a year.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
You like to make people laugh?
Yeah.
Your sissy human is crazy.
Okay.
So we'll go round this off with,uh, a few of yourselves, uh,
(38:20):
sustainer what's the lyric debtbrings you personally, uh, uh,
you wrote this song, what's thelyrics and sustain it.
It brings tears to that.
It brings joy to you that thatcauses emotion to you when you
sing it.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh man, it's a very simple line that is towards the
end of the song.
And all it says is through itall.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Hmm.
What about through it all?
Well, first of all, let me, letme ask this, explain, sustaining
for those of us who haven'theard the song, and then I want
you to help me with why throughit, all that, that verse.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Ooh.
So a sustainer, uh, I wrote thatsong.
I was in a space of, uh, justthinking about all that God had
brought me through.
Uh, and this was last year, Ithink when I wrote it or 2019.
And, um, I was just feeling verygrateful.
(39:26):
Uh, and that's what the song is,is, is simply a song about
gratefulness, like guide throughall this stuff.
You've, you've kept me, yousustain me, you've kept me sane
and I'm grateful for it.
Um, and that that's literallywhat the song was written off
of.
(39:46):
Just me being grateful
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And through it all.
Uh, can you give us the lyricand then why do it,
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, so, um, it's, it's attached to a lyric.
Uh, the background is saying you, you have sustained me.
And then right after that, itjust says, threw it off.
Uh, and why that lyric alwayshits me like a dump truck is
because as I was thinking andwriting this song, thinking
(40:17):
about all that I have beenthrough, um, from losing my
hearing, um, two years, I waspretty much dead, um, from the
surviving COVID from, uh,surviving depression, uh, so
(40:38):
many things that God has broughtme through and just those three
words through it all, like itencompasses so many things and
it just always takes me back tothose places that I was in.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
All right.
Um, and guys, you gotta go getworking for, get sustainer.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Uh, you can get it anywhere.
Uh, digital music is sold onAmazon, apple, uh, all of that.
Or if you stream, you can doSpotify or apple music iTunes
it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Okay.
So there's another song.
Uh, great.
Grace, where did that come from?
And I'm going to ask you whatlyric touches you.
That that song gives me, soexplain great grace, because I'm
not gonna do it justice, butexplain it and then tell me what
lyric for you.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Uh, so great grace.
Um, I wrote that song in 2000and, uh, 10, uh, when I woke up
one morning and I could not hearout of my right ear, uh, and
then slowly over the course ofthe next few weeks, my hearing
(41:54):
just deteriorated to the pointto where, um, I just could not
hear unless you were standingdirectly in front of me.
And so me being a writer who hasto go through what I write, I
sat down to write, assuming thatGod would let me write a song
(42:15):
about healing.
And instead I wrote a song aboutgratefulness, but this
gratefulness being grateful forher, um, the small things that
we don't think about, uh, andthat's where great grace came
from.
Uh, but my favorite line in thatsong is I says, you step down
(42:38):
from your throne that came likeman, to right my wrong.
It's my favorite line.
Um, for many reasons, the firstbeing I wrote that line maybe
seven years earlier, just thatmine, I wrote it and had nothing
(43:02):
to do with it.
And so when I was writing greatgrace, I had got stuck at a
point.
And that line came back to mymemory and I was like, oh,
that's what this was for.
Gotcha.
Got it.
Thank you then to think aboutwhat that mine is saying.
Um, it is the gospel.
It is Jesus wrapped himself inhumanity, came down and, and
(43:28):
saved us.
That line is to me, is his superpower.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it is.
It is pregnant.
Um, you wrote, walk on water,explain, walk on water.
And then the line that hits you.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah.
Uh, so walk on water, man.
Uh, that song came, uh, when Iwas in a space of wanting to
give up.
Uh, and I was this give up, wasgoing to be the give up.
I was done with church.
I was done with leading.
I was done with, with, withChristianity.
(44:08):
I was done with God because Iwas in a space to where I was
encouraging all these people.
I was ministering to all thesepeople and I was going home
broke.
I was going home broken.
I was going home jacked up.
There were many times I didn'thave lights on.
And you know, all of this, this,this, this stuff.
And I was tired.
(44:28):
I was like, God, I'm all of thisfor you.
And in my mind, you're not doingnothing for me.
Like, where's the ballet.
And so I was just, I was over itand I just sat down and I
started writing and literallythe first line, it always
blesses me.
It says, here I am.
(44:50):
And none of this looks familiar,but there you are.
So I know that things will getclear because you're in control.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
Okay.
Last off.
And then we'll close.
So you took an old song and Ialways have you sing the song.
You already know I'm going, buthe like, dang.
I know he gonna ask me to sayyou took an old song.
(45:22):
God, what is the name of it was,what's the name of the song?
The, the original, yeah, that'scrazy.
It's, it's such a simple name ofthe song for that.
That's so old.
Some of the words in there, old,whatever be done, I've got to
take care of.
Okay.
So God will take care of you.
(45:43):
So the lyrics we, for those ofyou don't know, it's, it's an
old song.
I don't know how old it'scalled.
God will take care of you.
The lyrics are, are amazing, butthere was a melody or something
that you put on that song.
That's like crack like literalcrack, but, you know, uh, but I,
(46:12):
I, it accentuated some words inthe song that I'd never heard
before.
And I guess this goes to yourpoint when I've heard that song
and y'all we getting into theweeds a little bit, but when I
heard that song, it reallydidn't when I've heard this song
before the renditions, before itreally didn't move me as much.
(46:35):
And I maybe it's because Ididn't really hear the words of
the song.
It's something about how yousing it or the melody.
I mean, it's a new melody thatmakes it, and I'm not the only
person that has heard you singthis song that always like, I
see tweets all the time.
(46:55):
For some, some people we know itevery now and then they'll say,
God will take care of you.
And that's it.
That's the tweet.
And I'm like, oh, because you'rehearing the song in your head.
Cause I know this person orthese people, what is it?
What, what is, what, what didyou do to that song?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Oh man.
So the whole background on thatsong, uh, we, we were prepared
it for red Friday that we usedto do.
Um, and we would, what we woulddo for those who don't know, we
would take hymns, kind ofmodernize them.
Uh, but this particular song,the only recording that we could
(47:35):
find was my hail, your checks.
And so we were trying to, tomodernize what she was singing
and it was so difficult.
It was very difficult.
And so I was just like, wellmaybe if we, I think Kenneth was
(47:55):
Kenneth was playing keys.
And I was like, let's try like,like give me something like
Neil's Solage, let's try to golike completely left with it.
Maybe that'll work.
And so Kenneth started playingand immediately just that melody
that came from what he wasplaying.
(48:17):
And I was like, okay, this couldwork because it's such a detour
from Jackson.
[inaudible],
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I'm not going to lie to you.
That's all like, when I realizedI've heard this song over and
over again, I was like, yeah,they brought life to the song.
Like, like those lyrics, if God,okay.
So there's the other thing, thetone of that song should be more
of a celebration than a lament.
(48:52):
It says, God will take care ofyou.
I mean, what was me?
I mean, it doesn't have the feet, the, the, the way they sung it
didn't match the power of thewords or the celebratory.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
'cause I, I, if I'm not mistaken, the, the version
that we were listening to,Amelia Jackson, she was singing
it at a funeral.
And so the way she sings it is,is kind of depressing.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah.
So let's just tell the truth.
Yes.
It is depressing for some wordsthat are very, that are like,
literally, if you read them,they're like, wow, this is, I'm
not depressed anymore.
I'm happy, man.
Okay.
He's got me, you know?
Yeah.
That's it say, bro, you've gotto, you've got an album coming
(49:49):
up.
Well, let me ask you this.
So is that song, that song is,uh, is it, is it common?
Is it well, does she still ownthe rice or can that song be
redone?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh, I believe if I'm not mistaken, that song is, uh,
is, uh, is an actual him now.
So, uh, it is community propertyfor lack of better word.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Oh, that song should be like, like break that song in
a three and put it like it, italludes to divide the album up.
I don't know, bro.
Like it has, it doesn't need tobe a song.
It could just be like, you know,I don't know, like a bridge
between your, the sections ofyour album.
(50:35):
It, it does something, man.
I, you know, somebody, we, nowhat'd you say?
I don't know, am I okay?
It doesn't need to be a songlike, oh, we need to do a four
minute rendition of this.
But like, you know, I don'tknow, man.
And it could be the title of thealbum.
I don't know.
(50:55):
You know, so, and then have it,I've gone crazy here right now.
So it didn't have like sectionsof your album that speak to
different parts of your journeyor whatnot, but like Bob Bridget
, together with yo at the end ofthe day, God's gonna take care
of you.
Oh no, I'm sorry.
Okay.
I've done that.
(51:19):
I've done.
I've done man.
Uh, Michael Dickson tell folkwhere they can find you, man.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Uh, you can find me on all social media platforms at
Mike M I K E w R I T E Z oneverything.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
All right, man.
We, we so appreciate you comingthrough.
We gotta have you again.
Cause I feel like, I feel likewe could just like riff for
hours and talk about just like,you know, Dodd said, said, you
know, anyway, man, uh, but thankyou for being with me, man.
Uh, man, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
[inaudible].
Yo, I have this, this pleasure of being with the
Michael Dixon worship songwriter, Christian Love of people
, uh, and the, uh, producer andarranger of the album sustainer.
(00:35):
And you guys have to listen tothat album.
He's also got a debut albumcoming up and I want to talk to
him about calling and so give awarm round of applause for our
brother Michael Dickson.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's up, everybody.
What's up.
What's
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Up, man?
What's up.
What's up.
What's up.
So before this, we were talkingabout man, uh, you know, going
into the conversation, but wewere talking about man, what it
looks like for us to, uh, forover this last year and a half
do ministry during the pandemic.
(01:12):
And, uh, you were talking aboutGod's call for us to minister to
the world.
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
A simple God never wanted us to be confined to our
church building.
Um, and I think we gotaccustomed to doing the routine
of church.
So to the building on Sundaymorning, go to the building
Bible study.
(01:44):
Cool.
During the week, God is kind ofsecond tier until we get back to
church on Sunday, we'll flyhome, fly four hour hours
already, and then back toregular life during the week.
And we just kept spreading certsacross from my house.
(02:07):
They go all day, but it's likeduring the week we, we just, we
go back to regular life.
Then I think we got into thathabit into that ritual.
And God had to shake that upbecause who is ministering to
those who are not in the church?
How do we reach those people?
(02:28):
And I think this pandemic hasgiven us the opportunity to
re-invent re-evaluate our callto go out into the world and
make disciples.
And we've had to do that becausenow there wasn't a church
building during the pandemic asyou didn't go into it.
(02:49):
So how do I not only reach mycongregation, but now because
we're in this virtual world, I'mreaching people who are probably
would have thought about, oreven wanted to connect to
because now I'm in this virtualworld and anyone has access to
it.
Um, so I think God kind ofpushed us to use this technology
(03:11):
that we've had for years to ouradvantage and for his glory,
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Man.
It's crazy.
Why do you think we, and when wesay we were talking about those
of us who do vocational ministry, uh, Mike is a worship leader,
a songwriter, um, minister ofmusic.
Uh, those of us who dovocational ministry, whether we,
uh, preach or lead worship, leadworship, and song for a living,
(03:42):
why do you think we didn't usethe technology before this?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Uh, I think we had gotten complacent.
Um, I think it, it became habitto do what we were used to
doing.
Um, like, like, well, I'll tellyou, I'll put my church.
For example, we have a set offlow lists.
So how we do service and I'vebeen there for about four years
(04:09):
now.
And the flow of service haspretty much been the same.
I can do it in my sleep.
I know exactly what's coming atthis point, this point, this
point, this point.
And so this pandemic shook upthose points to where we can't
flow the same.
So now we have to figure outwhat do we do now?
(04:31):
Right.
So I think, I, I really thinkthis pandemic has been a huge
blessing to the body of Christ.
And I'm hoping that when we goback into our normal routine,
that we don't lose those, thelesson and the lesson that was
in this past year and a half.
(04:51):
And
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You, you, you, you hit that nail on the head.
So a little bit about you, man.
Um, where are you from andwhat's your journey to Christ?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Uh, absolutely.
Um, I am Texas born.
I was born in Marshall, Texas,randomly.
Um, but raised in Houston.
Uh, my family is actually fromTexarkana.
If you don't know where that is,it's close to Arkansas.
Uh, so I have a country family,but I was raised in the city,
uh, been doing musicprofessionally, uh, since about
(05:27):
2010.
Uh, I've been a worship leaderfor now 14 years.
Uh, been a songwriter, um, allof my life professionally, since
2010.
Um, I'm Grammy nominated as asongwriter, so that's, that's
dope.
(05:49):
Um, and music is my passion.
Uh, and it's also my purpose andyeah, that's me,
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Man.
So, um, w when did you come toChrist and what's the story
behind that?
It's always the same
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And my story is a little different, uh, than most
people in my position.
Uh, I didn't grow up in church.
Uh, my family are, are, areChristians.
Um, and we went to churchperiodically, but it wasn't a
every week thing.
I wasn't, as they call them afew babies.
Um, I wasn't in church for Biblestudy and choir rehearsal and
(06:30):
all of that, that, that justwasn't my family.
My mom, uh, was a coach, uh, meand my brother, we were heavy
into athletics.
Um, so that kind of consumed ourlife.
Uh, but my mom always made surethat I did.
I played basketball.
I played football for a moment.
Didn't like it ran track also.
Didn't like it, um, basketballwas, was kind of my thing.
(06:56):
And so that, and that's my, myfamily, like athletics is in my
jeans and I'm also six, five.
So
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Can't help it.
They're going to push you outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, it just had to do it.
Um, but yeah, it didn't grow upin the church.
Um, I came to know Christ, um,when I was 16, uh, there was a
music workshop at the churchthat we were attending.
(07:30):
Uh, and my mom let me attended.
It was like a week long thing.
Uh, and Donald Lawrence was the,uh, the clinician of the
workshop.
Um, and yeah, from there, uh, Iwas introduced to Christ and I
can remember I was 17 when Iactually accepted Christ into my
(07:52):
life.
Um, and from there on, this hasbeen all I've known and all of
that.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And, uh, so you were at this, uh, clinic.
What about the clinics, third?
You, what, uh, what about itmoved you and what did you feel
while you're at that clinic?
It said, man, um, I feel like, Ifeel like I'm a follow Jesus or
at that point you were thinkingabout it.
(08:19):
I know you were 16 at the timeyou made the transition at 17,
but what about that clinic?
Like was the, was the impact infactor for you?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, first it was the music.
Um, I've always loved music.
And around that age, I wasgetting heavy into music and
kind of putting sports on theback burner.
Um, so watching DAMA Lawrence,if you don't know who he is,
look him up.
He's a master at his craft andwatching him, uh, going through
(08:49):
this music and explaining themeaning of some of the songs.
It just really opened my eyes.
And then we were singing a songby him.
That's called, uh, uh, seasons.
Uh, it says, I feel seasonedeverywhere.
I feel blessings in here[inaudible] and so he was
(09:11):
explaining the lyrics.
And for some reason, I, I reallyhad no idea what the song was
speaking about, but for somereason, the song was speaking to
something in me.
Cause I made I'm 16 at the time.
I haven't really experienced,seasoned changes that in that
(09:33):
fashion, you still, butsomething about the music, the
melody, the way he wasexplaining the message, it was
speaking to something in me atthe time.
I didn't know what it was, butnow I know it was speaking to my
spirit man.
And that moment opened up thedoor for me to actually accept
(09:57):
Christ.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so you're 17.
Where were you when you madethat decision to follow him and
uh, yeah.
Where, where are you?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Uh, so I was 17 and, um, my mom has started going to
the fountain of praise here inHouston.
And, um, I joined the youthchurch.
Uh, it was called the rock andjoin the youth choir or
whatever.
And there was a minister who waslike the guest preacher for the
(10:31):
youth service.
Um, and he simply laid out Jesusand all that.
He said it was really simple.
It was like, it was like areally high moment in the
service.
And he was like, what you guysare feeling is the love of
Christ.
And if you want to feel thislove of Christ for the rest of
(10:51):
your life, take this moment toaccept them into your heart.
That's all he said that I waslike, well, yeah, I like this
feeling.
I want to feel this.
And so boom went up for thealter call and they took me to
the dislike back room.
It was me and a couple otherpeople.
And, uh, whoever the person wasworking, the auto, as they say,
(11:16):
um, laid out what salvationmeant.
Um, so the minister laid out,this is basic Jesus.
And then someone took the Alliewho, and laid out salvation.
Um, and that, that, that wasthat.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wow.
So then from that moment at 17,okay.
You talked earlier about alreadybeing in music.
What, what were you thinkingbefore or what I'm just curious.
Um,
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Hm.
So I was raised on music likeMichael Jackson, earth, wind and
fire Luther Vandross.
That's what my mom was playingaround the house.
So yeah, the good stuff.
And, um, by way of Missy Elliottof all people, um, I came into
(12:22):
contact with the Clark sistersand that took me down this path
of gospel music.
Um, because then at that time,the foul sharing was really big,
like Napster and, uh, and allthat stuff, slime wire.
And so through this Elliot,having them on one of her songs
(12:48):
and me searching them out on theinternet, I found all of this
gospel music from your CurtFranklins to, you know, Yolanda
Adams and Hopkins and Andrecrouch and all of that stuff.
And so by the time that, that,uh, that clip, that clinic tech
come around, I had already beenfamiliar with Donald Lawrence
(13:11):
and his music.
Um, so that's, that's how thatall kind of tied together.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And, and so there's this love of gospel music that
you had even before you wouldsay, uh, what, what then
proceeded that shift to say,okay, I wanna, I feel called, so
did you feel a call to, uh, tosing gospel?
(13:41):
Did you feel a call to worship,uh, to, to, to lead worship?
How was that for you?
I don't, I don't know how thatprocess started.
Cause I remember when you gotyour first gig, well, I won't
say gig your first job cause Iwas there, but I don't remember
how you got there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Um, college was really the breeding ground for
that.
Um, I had a, a band teacher inmiddle school, um, who stay
connected with my mom and me.
And he always told my mom do notpush him to do sports, make him
do music.
That's where he's going toExcel.
(14:22):
And my mom took those words fromhim.
And throughout the years, shenever, even though my family
lineage was athletics, she neverpushed that on me.
She saw that I was interested inmusic and she did all that she
could to cultivate that.
And so once I got to college,um, is when everything really
(14:43):
started to, to hit, uh, startedreally heavy and songwriting.
Um, I developed my own group,Michael Dixon and vision.
Um, and they were religious, um,of platform for me to work out
these songs that I was writing.
(15:03):
Um, and from there, uh, therewas a little church in the PV
area and Waller, um, that I wasat the time leading worship.
I didn't know what that was.
I was just singing some songs atthe beginning of the service,
Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know, I think it takes time to either figure out
what it is that we're, we'rereally working out a gift, but
we, but it hasn't really met thecall or the responsibility yet.
It's like, you know, and so Ithink it's a process for all of
us.
So you were at, uh, Prairie viewa and M university.
(15:43):
Yeah, I was there.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Um, I was there and there was a church close by that
was sent a bus to pick us up andtake us to serve it.
And so through that, I startedsinging there on Sunday morning.
Uh, like I said, leadingworship, not knowing that that's
what I was doing.
And, um, there was a guy Feb inthe band with me who worked at
Goodwill.
(16:06):
Uh, he was the keyboard playerthere, David Harris.
And he had heard me sing andtold me that they were having
auditions for a worship leader.
And I was like, well, sure, I'lltry.
I can sing a little.
Why not?
Let's so came down to Houstonaudition for Chad and he was
(16:29):
like, you're not ready.
And so I was like, okay.
And literally like maybe a yearlater check called me and was
like, would you like to leadworship for our youth service?
I'm like, sure.
And so through that relationshipwith Chad, I learned how to be a
(16:52):
worship leader.
I learned everything that Icould about that.
And
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So, so for the uninitiated, what is the
difference?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Huge difference.
Um, first off worshiped bleedingis less about your vocal ability
and more about how you are ableto facilitate, um, worship in a
service.
Uh, we always, uh, you'veprobably heard the phrase that,
you know, we sing to an audienceof one which has got, that is a
(17:28):
true phrase, but as a worshipleader, it's your responsibility
to get the congregants on thesame accord to sing to that
audience of one.
So it's your responsibility tofacilitate those moments.
Um, and just because you cansing doesn't mean that you're
able to facilitate worship.
(17:50):
It goes way beyond your vocalability and more so enter your
relationship with God
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Who is funny.
We, we, I mean, we w we knoweach other, so you know,
somebody and we know the insideball and all of that, but I
mean, I don't know how manyservices I've sat through where
I'm like, man, is he seguing forhimself or seeking for
themselves?
Or are they going to help, youknow, all of us seeing with
(18:22):
them, you know, and one of thethings I've learned is really
to, to worship lead.
Sometimes it helps not to have agreat voice because then that
actually helps other people tosay, okay, I'll help.
He, or she to sing.
I don't know how many times I'vehad to like improvise, you know,
(18:45):
Hey, like, oh bro, bless hisheart.
I got, I've got this.
I got did.
People will say, oh, you you'relike, okay, well, my job is done
.
My boys have to be sacrificed atthe altar of people worship
(19:11):
though.
So I've always been amazed atyour ability.
I mean, personally, at yourability to make, you can sing
like nobody's business, right.
But the control and the humilityto say right now, I have a job
(19:31):
to do.
I need to do that job.
And I've, I have witnessed andheard other people who didn't
know the difference were like,yo, what just happened?
And me knowing and understandingwhat it means to lead worship.
It's hard to communicate that topeople.
(19:52):
Well, cause they're like, you'llhave been in all these services
here, there in the other.
And I'm like, yeah, E'sfacilitating worship for
congregation.
He can do it with his words.
He can do it with a song he cando with half a song he can do
with pieces of a song because herealizes it's, it's not even the
(20:13):
song itself.
It's how do I get you to just,you know, come along for the
journey and then begin to singto your Lord, man.
And it's like, I mean, I hate tosay like a magician, but really
what it is.
You're, you're, you're promptingpeople without saying, y'all
(20:34):
sing the song, sing the song.
And you know, I would've stoppedthis, but I don't know how many
times I've seen people fussabout people singing the song.
And you're like, well, if youslow down and you sing the song,
(20:54):
you know, add a key that theycan sing the song at, or at
least facilitate their abilityto sing that song.
They would sing the song.
They, they want it.
This is the only opportunity inthe whole service that they get
to participate.
They want to participate, butyou gotta, you gotta make, you
gotta make room for them.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
That's it.
You gotta make room for that.
And like you said, you have tobe able to have enough humility
to dumb down your abilityvocally, to where you make this
not about you.
So the view up there, givenevery trick and riff and run
(21:40):
that you have in your arsenal,like people are going to start
paying attention to what you'redoing and being fascinated by
your ability.
And you've, you've losteverything.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Uh, speaking of that, and I've always wanted this.
How were you able, yo, that'shard.
I mean, we, we gloss over this,but that's very hard to do for
people who are up frontpreachers singers to say, I'm
going to dumb.
I mean, what is like, did youhave tension?
(22:14):
Did you feel a certain like,man, I mean, I really need to,
this is my moment to sign andI'm not getting this shot.
Like what, what, and you did itat an early age.
So what is happening in your,your heart, your mind?
Like, is there a war it's justopened us up to that?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Um, well two things, one I, I realized early on that
nothing that I do, especially ina service is about me.
Um, I think coming to thatrealization and realizing that
I'm not the important piece, God, so everything that I do needs
(22:58):
to direct attention to him.
Um, and I think another thingthat has helped me in so many
areas, um, my first love issongwriter and I studied like
all of the pop songwriters andthey are amazing storytellers.
And I've been able to infusethat storytelling into
(23:21):
everything that I do.
So with storytelling, what makesa great story teller is being
able to translate whatever isneeded from the story to the
person that's listening.
So if my agenda, my goal is togive all the attention and glory
(23:41):
to God, how can I convey that,telling this story?
So if the words for this song ishow great is our God, I need to
make sure that the emphasis ison the greatness of that.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And so how would you do that?
You know, there might be worshipleaders out there who are like
struggling, earnestly,struggling, like how do they do
that?
So I just want a platform toteach them a little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Um, so I'm always aware of, well, let me, let me
start that over, um, your, yourtreats, your runs, your ribs,
all of the intricate things thatyou can do at your voice is just
ornamentation and what makesthose things work is placement.
(24:42):
So when you're telling a story,you have to figure out what is
the important take away fromthis story that I'm telling.
So if the line is how great isour God, what's the important
word in that sentence.
It's great.
You're speaking of the greatnessof God.
So how do I accent great inthat, in that line?
(25:05):
So I have to figure out a way tomake that word emphasize.
So maybe I add a little, alittle run here or add a little
something here to make that wordstand out over saturate that
line with ornamentation, becausenow the word, how is it besides
(25:27):
the word great is emphasize, theword is, is emphasized.
And so now the person listeningto the story doesn't know what
the important portion of thestory is because you have
overemphasized every piece ofthe story.
So finding out what is importantand how to emphasize.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So give us an example of how people don't understand
how to do it.
We'll do it the way you think itought to be done,
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What you mean.
So someone who doesn'tunderstand may do it.
So that's just one phrase andyou've added so much what was
important.
(26:25):
So if I'm trying to emphasizethe word great, how great is
that?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Just that simple.
Wow.
The accent is on the grade.
You're wanting people to see howgreat it is.
But if I, if I'm riffing throughthe whole song, then the song,
the meaning, the meaning of thewords are less important than
the melody.
(26:56):
The person is singing.
Hey, I didn't even know
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That I, that I have to think about while singing.
So this is like on the spotstuff.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So, so you, so in some choicesfor you, I don't know if this is
true for you would be better topick songs.
You understand how to you, thatyou would understand how to tell
story the story rather than topick a new song that you might
not be as familiar with.
(27:28):
I don't know.
W how, how do you, is that true?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Um, it, it's true.
Uh, in most cases, uh, I've beendoing it for so long that I'm
kind of accustomed to figuringout what's important in a song,
even if it's a new song.
Um, but yeah, one thing practiceis always important.
Um, you can never over practicesomething, uh, in, in my
(27:58):
opinion.
Um, so yeah, practicing and, andlearning one.
What is this song talking about?
Uh, I think too many times wejust sing songs maybe because
they're popular or because Ilike the song, but sit down and
evaluate what the song isactually saying.
(28:19):
And what's the message in thesong.
Um, because sometimes you'llfind out that some of these
songs, especially on the gospelside are not speaking the truth
of that.
Um, so you got to reconcile that, um, and then to know how to
minister this song, I need toone, let the song minister to me
(28:40):
and to let know what the song isactually speaking of.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So, uh, shifting gears here, do you feel called
to do what you do and why?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Uh, I know that I'm called to do this.
Uh, sometimes I wish I wasn't, Iwould much rather be doing
something with a little lessresponsibility and a little more
ease.
Um, but I know that this is mycalling, uh, and I, I try to, to
(29:14):
, um, I try to make sure thatI'm representing God is as best
as I can with this call.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah.
Um, when you hear the wordcalling, what does that, what do
you feel and what does that meanto you?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Um, something that I had to learn early on, um,
calling and purpose, uh, is notalways what you're passionate
about.
Um, and I think, and that's, ofcourse that's, that's
generalized and that's not everycase, but I think a lot of times
people mix up their passion andtheir calling.
(29:55):
Uh, sometimes it's not alwaysthe same thing.
Um, you can be passionate toteach, but you're calling to be,
um, I don't know, to be adoctor.
You don't know, you just, theydon't always match up.
Um, but, but calling, I think,you know, when, especially when
(30:15):
it's, when it's a divine calling, um, I think, you know, then
it's divine one because it'ssomething that has been pulling
on your heart.
Um, and no matter what you do orhow much you try to quote
unquote, run from it, it'salways pulling on you.
(30:36):
Um, and it's something thatmentally, you always go back to.
Uh, and that, to me, that,that's what, that's how you can
know that it's a common, haveyou ever wanted to give up?
Well, you already know, uh, allthe time, um, uh, edit it's for
(31:07):
me.
Um, because I'm a songwriter andGod has blessed me with the gift
of writing.
Um, but I write from such apersonal place and it's gotten
to the point, so whereeverything that I write I have
to go through and I hate, I hateit.
(31:31):
There've been times where I'vesaid to God, like, why do I have
to go through for everybodyelse?
Like, I've had some realconversations with guidelines,
so yeah, I've definitely wantedto give up, man.
(31:51):
It's what kept you going?
I like that.
I see what you did there.
Uh, really got every, every timeI kid you, not every time I've
(32:12):
been in that space of wanting togive up, God will send somebody
to my DMS or text messages orsomething, telling me how a song
that I've written has gottenthem through a situation.
And that one, it lets me knowthat, okay, um, I'm operating in
(32:34):
my purpose.
I'm doing what I'm supposed tobe doing.
Let throw my pride aside andkeep on going.
And two, it just, it just makesme realize that though, I've
gone through all of this andI've suffered for this.
It was for a reason.
And knowing that what God hastaken me through has let
(32:56):
somebody else that's enough tokind of keep me going.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Amazing.
Um, I want to talk about some ofthe songs that you've written,
but before we get to that, I'vegot some lightning round
questions for you.
Scale of one to 10, how good areyou at keeping secrets?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'm going to have to go with a 10 on that.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
It is as you and I speaking, I think I'm a 10 as
well.
Like we, we, we, we got to justwe'll talk offline.
Ariella, Jasmine, Jasmine
Speaker 2 (33:53):
First celebrity crush.
So most people probably won'teven notice is she's still my
celebrity crush.
It looks exactly the same.
Our name is a non dilutes.
She was a VJ on MTV back in thenineties.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think I remember who she dated, but okay.
We talk afterwards,
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Donna dusk.
I'm going to say desk because Ihate waking up.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Okay.
All right.
Oh, so you're like me.
I'm a night owl.
If you could travel back intime, what period would you go
to?
Um,
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Good question.
Um, I want to say a period oftime that I've never
experienced, but I love thenineties so much that I would
probably have to go back andexperience that goodness again.
(35:13):
Okay.
Do you snore?
I do.
I have sleep apnea.
Unfortunately, listen
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Place, you, you most want to travel?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
There are two places I want to go to, uh, to, to
Tokyo for some reason.
Uh, but I really want to go tothe UK.
Never been, I was wanting to go
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Favorite childhood TV show
Speaker 2 (35:54):
As a hard one.
Um, that's a hard one.
Uh, there was a show that cameon Nickelodeon called legends of
the hidden temple.
It was a game show.
I think that would be myfavorite,
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Uh, favorite season out of the four seasons.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
My favorite season is winter when we have it.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
When we have it
Speaker 2 (36:27):
This past winter, it was a little extreme.
Oh yeah, no, it was crazy.
We got it all in one weekend.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Uh, Halloween, did you do Halloween?
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So people don't look at me differently.
Don't think about medifferently.
I am a huge, huge fan of horror.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay.
Like
Speaker 2 (37:02):
To the point to where, if the FBI looked at my
computer, they're probablywatching anyway.
They would probably think I'm aserial killer.
I love everything involving
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Or, okay.
So did you, did you, uh, whatwas your last Halloween costume
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Last Halloween costume?
Uh, what was I?
It was for work.
Um, it was like a play onMichael Myers and Jason, uh, but
it was like a split between thetwo,
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Uh, cake or pie from Sam's.
Okay.
And do you ever postinspirational quotes on social
media?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Not often.
Maybe like once or twice a year.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
You like to make people laugh?
Yeah.
Your sissy human is crazy.
Okay.
So we'll go round this off with,uh, a few of yourselves, uh,
(38:20):
sustainer what's the lyric debtbrings you personally, uh, uh,
you wrote this song, what's thelyrics and sustain it.
It brings tears to that.
It brings joy to you that thatcauses emotion to you when you
sing it.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh man, it's a very simple line that is towards the
end of the song.
And all it says is through itall.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Hmm.
What about through it all?
Well, first of all, let me, letme ask this, explain, sustaining
for those of us who haven'theard the song, and then I want
you to help me with why throughit, all that, that verse.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Ooh.
So a sustainer, uh, I wrote thatsong.
I was in a space of, uh, justthinking about all that God had
brought me through.
Uh, and this was last year, Ithink when I wrote it or 2019.
And, um, I was just feeling verygrateful.
(39:26):
Uh, and that's what the song is,is, is simply a song about
gratefulness, like guide throughall this stuff.
You've, you've kept me, yousustain me, you've kept me sane
and I'm grateful for it.
Um, and that that's literallywhat the song was written off
of.
(39:46):
Just me being grateful
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And through it all.
Uh, can you give us the lyricand then why do it,
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, so, um, it's, it's attached to a lyric.
Uh, the background is saying you, you have sustained me.
And then right after that, itjust says, threw it off.
Uh, and why that lyric alwayshits me like a dump truck is
because as I was thinking andwriting this song, thinking
(40:17):
about all that I have beenthrough, um, from losing my
hearing, um, two years, I waspretty much dead, um, from the
surviving COVID from, uh,surviving depression, uh, so
(40:38):
many things that God has broughtme through and just those three
words through it all, like itencompasses so many things and
it just always takes me back tothose places that I was in.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
All right.
Um, and guys, you gotta go getworking for, get sustainer.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Uh, you can get it anywhere.
Uh, digital music is sold onAmazon, apple, uh, all of that.
Or if you stream, you can doSpotify or apple music iTunes
it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Okay.
So there's another song.
Uh, great.
Grace, where did that come from?
And I'm going to ask you whatlyric touches you.
That that song gives me, soexplain great grace, because I'm
not gonna do it justice, butexplain it and then tell me what
lyric for you.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Uh, so great grace.
Um, I wrote that song in 2000and, uh, 10, uh, when I woke up
one morning and I could not hearout of my right ear, uh, and
then slowly over the course ofthe next few weeks, my hearing
(41:54):
just deteriorated to the pointto where, um, I just could not
hear unless you were standingdirectly in front of me.
And so me being a writer who hasto go through what I write, I
sat down to write, assuming thatGod would let me write a song
(42:15):
about healing.
And instead I wrote a song aboutgratefulness, but this
gratefulness being grateful forher, um, the small things that
we don't think about, uh, andthat's where great grace came
from.
Uh, but my favorite line in thatsong is I says, you step down
(42:38):
from your throne that came likeman, to right my wrong.
It's my favorite line.
Um, for many reasons, the firstbeing I wrote that line maybe
seven years earlier, just thatmine, I wrote it and had nothing
(43:02):
to do with it.
And so when I was writing greatgrace, I had got stuck at a
point.
And that line came back to mymemory and I was like, oh,
that's what this was for.
Gotcha.
Got it.
Thank you then to think aboutwhat that mine is saying.
Um, it is the gospel.
It is Jesus wrapped himself inhumanity, came down and, and
(43:28):
saved us.
That line is to me, is his superpower.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it is.
It is pregnant.
Um, you wrote, walk on water,explain, walk on water.
And then the line that hits you.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah.
Uh, so walk on water, man.
Uh, that song came, uh, when Iwas in a space of wanting to
give up.
Uh, and I was this give up, wasgoing to be the give up.
I was done with church.
I was done with leading.
I was done with, with, withChristianity.
(44:08):
I was done with God because Iwas in a space to where I was
encouraging all these people.
I was ministering to all thesepeople and I was going home
broke.
I was going home broken.
I was going home jacked up.
There were many times I didn'thave lights on.
And you know, all of this, this,this, this stuff.
And I was tired.
(44:28):
I was like, God, I'm all of thisfor you.
And in my mind, you're not doingnothing for me.
Like, where's the ballet.
And so I was just, I was over itand I just sat down and I
started writing and literallythe first line, it always
blesses me.
It says, here I am.
(44:50):
And none of this looks familiar,but there you are.
So I know that things will getclear because you're in control.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
Okay.
Last off.
And then we'll close.
So you took an old song and Ialways have you sing the song.
You already know I'm going, buthe like, dang.
I know he gonna ask me to sayyou took an old song.
(45:22):
God, what is the name of it was,what's the name of the song?
The, the original, yeah, that'scrazy.
It's, it's such a simple name ofthe song for that.
That's so old.
Some of the words in there, old,whatever be done, I've got to
take care of.
Okay.
So God will take care of you.
(45:43):
So the lyrics we, for those ofyou don't know, it's, it's an
old song.
I don't know how old it'scalled.
God will take care of you.
The lyrics are, are amazing, butthere was a melody or something
that you put on that song.
That's like crack like literalcrack, but, you know, uh, but I,
(46:12):
I, it accentuated some words inthe song that I'd never heard
before.
And I guess this goes to yourpoint when I've heard that song
and y'all we getting into theweeds a little bit, but when I
heard that song, it reallydidn't when I've heard this song
before the renditions, before itreally didn't move me as much.
(46:35):
And I maybe it's because Ididn't really hear the words of
the song.
It's something about how yousing it or the melody.
I mean, it's a new melody thatmakes it, and I'm not the only
person that has heard you singthis song that always like, I
see tweets all the time.
(46:55):
For some, some people we know itevery now and then they'll say,
God will take care of you.
And that's it.
That's the tweet.
And I'm like, oh, because you'rehearing the song in your head.
Cause I know this person orthese people, what is it?
What, what is, what, what didyou do to that song?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Oh man.
So the whole background on thatsong, uh, we, we were prepared
it for red Friday that we usedto do.
Um, and we would, what we woulddo for those who don't know, we
would take hymns, kind ofmodernize them.
Uh, but this particular song,the only recording that we could
(47:35):
find was my hail, your checks.
And so we were trying to, tomodernize what she was singing
and it was so difficult.
It was very difficult.
And so I was just like, wellmaybe if we, I think Kenneth was
(47:55):
Kenneth was playing keys.
And I was like, let's try like,like give me something like
Neil's Solage, let's try to golike completely left with it.
Maybe that'll work.
And so Kenneth started playingand immediately just that melody
that came from what he wasplaying.
(48:17):
And I was like, okay, this couldwork because it's such a detour
from Jackson.
[inaudible],
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I'm not going to lie to you.
That's all like, when I realizedI've heard this song over and
over again, I was like, yeah,they brought life to the song.
Like, like those lyrics, if God,okay.
So there's the other thing, thetone of that song should be more
of a celebration than a lament.
(48:52):
It says, God will take care ofyou.
I mean, what was me?
I mean, it doesn't have the feet, the, the, the way they sung it
didn't match the power of thewords or the celebratory.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
'cause I, I, if I'm not mistaken, the, the version
that we were listening to,Amelia Jackson, she was singing
it at a funeral.
And so the way she sings it is,is kind of depressing.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah.
So let's just tell the truth.
Yes.
It is depressing for some wordsthat are very, that are like,
literally, if you read them,they're like, wow, this is, I'm
not depressed anymore.
I'm happy, man.
Okay.
He's got me, you know?
Yeah.
That's it say, bro, you've gotto, you've got an album coming
(49:49):
up.
Well, let me ask you this.
So is that song, that song is,uh, is it, is it common?
Is it well, does she still ownthe rice or can that song be
redone?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh, I believe if I'm not mistaken, that song is, uh,
is, uh, is an actual him now.
So, uh, it is community propertyfor lack of better word.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Oh, that song should be like, like break that song in
a three and put it like it, italludes to divide the album up.
I don't know, bro.
Like it has, it doesn't need tobe a song.
It could just be like, you know,I don't know, like a bridge
between your, the sections ofyour album.
(50:35):
It, it does something, man.
I, you know, somebody, we, nowhat'd you say?
I don't know, am I okay?
It doesn't need to be a songlike, oh, we need to do a four
minute rendition of this.
But like, you know, I don'tknow, man.
And it could be the title of thealbum.
I don't know.
(50:55):
You know, so, and then have it,I've gone crazy here right now.
So it didn't have like sectionsof your album that speak to
different parts of your journeyor whatnot, but like Bob Bridget
, together with yo at the end ofthe day, God's gonna take care
of you.
Oh no, I'm sorry.
Okay.
I've done that.
(51:19):
I've done.
I've done man.
Uh, Michael Dickson tell folkwhere they can find you, man.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Uh, you can find me on all social media platforms at
Mike M I K E w R I T E Z oneverything.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
All right, man.
We, we so appreciate you comingthrough.
We gotta have you again.
Cause I feel like, I feel likewe could just like riff for
hours and talk about just like,you know, Dodd said, said, you
know, anyway, man, uh, but thankyou for being with me, man.
Uh, man, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
[inaudible].
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!