November 26, 2024 • 35 mins
Don't all religions lead to God? Many well-intentioned people believe so. Are they right? What is religion and how does such define different adherents? Join Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino for an honest look at the world of religion and the technicalities of this question to answer once and for all, do all religions lead to God? (Intro and Conclusion Track "Ready to Rock" by Yvgeniy Sorokin, https://pixabay.com/users/eugenemyers-40510887/. Empire Transport Track "The Beauty of Green Legends" by DTXN1,https://pixabay.com/users/dtxn1-42017842/.)
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Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge.
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As we celebrate the Kingdom of God within you.
I am your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, author, podcaster, professor and theologian,
and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I am excited to share this program with you as we explore the ends of counterculture
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Christianity present as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.
Want to learn more?
Visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
And now, our program, which features a variety of formats here, just for you.
Interviews on a variety of relative topics, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from
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my North Carolina studio to sanctuary and beyond.
And powerful insights here for now as we turn the world upside down everywhere we go.
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, happy whatever time of day is wherever you
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are and to our listeners in Singapore, we say, "Ni hao."
We hope that whatever time of day is when you are listening that you are having a good
one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.
And I am your host, Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire serving as the voice
of counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel
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free to visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
Well don't all religions lead to God, is our leading question here?
It's not a secret that a large part of this program is devoted to religion in one form
or another.
Often spoken of from a Christian perspective, but we have had guests on that are not
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specifically Christian.
One kind, I also speak about religion from a factual perspective rather than one that's
specifically religious at times as well.
While we overall have beliefs, we also talk about what other people believe and not necessarily
in a derogatory manner and not in a derogatory manner, but just to understand better about
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belief.
And in keeping with this, sometimes I get emails or fall into conversations with people who
either ask the question or claim to believe, well wait what?
Don't all religions lead to God.
This question, thought, musing, idea, whatever you want to call it, is often pursued in
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earnest by people who either don't know much about religion
Don't know as much as they think about religion, or only have a basic, nominal, not very well
working idea of some religions, especially those practiced in the West, and tend to apply
their understanding of spirituality to everyone else.
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And yes, I believe that needs to be said because I don't necessarily think people who believe
all religions lead to the same place are bad people, but they are often not professionals
or people who have devoted themselves to the study of religion in any sort of sense,
and as a result, their understanding of it is extremely incomplete.
Now it's not possible to cover all of religious understanding in a podcast episode.
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I've studied religion my entire adult life, and believe me, it's much more complicated
than we can address in 30 to 40 or so minutes.
But by addressing different points under this heading, I think I can help all who listen
to get a better understanding of what it's about and why understanding it properly matters,
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especially when this question comes up, because the question does come up very often.
So let's start with the question, what is religion?
I think this question is the first that needs to be answered, because we don't have a
good grasp on religion as a foundational issue.
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Today, religion is often spoken of as a thing of disdain, of something that's empty, meaningless
and without purpose, something that's void of God.
Sometimes people talk about it in the vein of something that's more optional, or something
that maybe constrains people in their lives, and that makes the entire narrative that
all religions lead to God sound empty in and of itself, because an awful lot of people
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don't feel there's anything relevant or redeemable in religion to begin with.
But the truth about religion is much more involved and detailed, and regardless of what one
believes personally, I think it's wrong to indicate we should just regard it as nothing,
or as something that has no purpose.
Yes, people have gone awry in religion throughout the centuries.
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This is definitely not a new thing, but that doesn't mean the concept of religion is
void in and of itself.
So to define religion, it isn't just one thing.
It's many things, and as a result, it often overlaps with other aspects of identity that
relate to culture, social interaction, and ultimately the beliefs one has about the greater
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sense of placement within the world, or sometimes the universe.
Religion is about more than just a search for God, or trying to understand God, although
that can be part of religion, it is not actually what defines it.
As a mix of things, religion relates to customs, to the systematic implementation and practice
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of those different systems, and the different elements that come together that make belief
systems unique.
These customs are behavioral and practice-based, relating to morals, beliefs, a general idea
of beliefs, not necessarily what we might associate with spiritual belief.
World view, sacred text, holy places, prophecies or predictions, ethics, organization, and
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things that are often seen as having supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements to them.
It's important to say that there is no specific scholarly consensus over what specifically
constitutes a religion.
Although there are a few major points that most groups embrace.
Religion overall could be described in a simpler way as humanity's search for meaning and
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understanding of general life purpose and placement.
And whether or not one is religious, people are influenced by religion because religion
has a cultural element to it.
For example, you may not be into Christianity, you may not ever attend a church, or believe
in Jesus Christ, but you likely celebrate Christmas in some form or another.
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And I'd say Christmas isn't the best example because it's got its own origins, but for the
sake of influence it is something religious in the Western world that is associated with
Christianity, as part of being in a society with a strong Christian influence.
Religious influences can be both due to practice or culture, and religion heavily influences
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culture, whether we like it or not.
Which often has an impact on how someone sees the world.
In a pursuit to be anti-religious, one often rejects the concepts of the religious culture
they are most familiar.
And therefore, don't entirely abandon those ideals, but instead rebel against them.
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It's very hard to find people who actually believe in nothing, regardless of what they might
say.
The rejection of religion or specified religious beliefs aren't believing in nothing, they
are the rejection of something that is still standing as their definition of something.
To put religion in perspective, there are an estimated somewhere around 10,000 religions
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worldwide, although most of those religions would be defined as indigenous, with regionally
based small, isolated followings.
And most of those groups have similarities with other indigenous religions, although
specifications are unique to their surroundings.
Four religions account for almost 80% of the world's population, and these are Christianity,
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Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism.
92% of the world follows one of these world religions, or identifies as non-religious,
while some non-religious may still maintain some religious beliefs.
See how this gets complicated.
This means over 9,000 of the world's religions are practiced by only about 8% of the world's
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population combined.
So truth to be told, the world of religion is far bigger than just our understanding of
any Western culture.
It's extremely diverse, even though only a small percentage of the world may practice
with much diversity.
And even among bigger religions, the way religion is often viewed varies greatly depending
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upon location, and region and culture involved.
Judaism in Brooklyn, New York looks different than it does in Israel, for example.
Protestant Christianity varies greatly from orthodoxy found in Eastern Europe.
Roman Catholicism in Italy is different from the piety of Catholicism in Ireland.
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The Buddhism of Tibet has variations from Buddhism in the far east.
Christianity in the northern part of the United States varies from that in the southern United
States, as well as the Midwest or the West.
If there are no other takeaways from these stats, recognized religion is diverse, it's
different among practitioners and locations, and because of such it has very vast and different
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purposes.
It is not said as a judgment against any particular religious group or to exalt one above the other.
It's just a fact, religions are different, they are designed to be different, and that's
why not all religions seem to be the same, because they're not.
If there is something we've been saying a lot over the past several years, it's supposed
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to be that being different is all right, and it's all right to acknowledge differences.
But in acknowledging differences, we all recognize and accept that differences are a thing,
and we don't have the right to minimize those differences because they change in incorrect
narrative we've espoused for a long time.
So before we really do anything else, we need to adjust our attitude about religion in general.
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Yes, religion exists.
Whether or not you think all religion is legitimate or not doesn't change the fact that it exists.
Religion is very key to understanding both history and culture.
We cannot understand either without some working knowledge of religious function, and religions
are not all the same.
They have vastly different functions, goals, desires, worldviews, perspectives, and purposes.
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And it's pretty much possible to find a religious view that supports what you think or how you
feel if you try hard enough.
But there is no possible way to write the fence and say all religions are the same with
the same purpose.
It's not that just say religions don't have some things in common.
No, it's not.
And we will talk about this more later on.
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But just because something might have an occasional cross-value or idea doesn't make them the
same.
Given the diversity of religions, we can divide them up into a few categories to help us
better understand what we're talking about.
So there are indigenous religions that are about spirits, animism, and finding different
harmonies with these spirits, especially trying to keep them happy throughout the world.
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There are occult religions, such as those that often overlap with paganism, whichcraft,
and the New Age movement.
That's seem to manipulate natural elements for the sake of controlling spiritual entities
to find favor.
Receive certain powers or engage in certain practices.
Many of these also contain fertility elements that worship reproductive powers.
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We might call fertility cults.
There are imperial religions, which relate to political authority and obtaining political
ideals.
One might not consider such to actually be a religion, but history does prove otherwise.
Whether it was prevalent among the ancient Egyptians or Romans, the Shinto empires, or
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the work of Hitler, Mao, Kim Jong-un, and Stalin.
I'll have a certain element of worshiping an earthly leader who has the powers or imagery
of a god.
There are ascetic religions, such as some strains of Hinduism, Jainism, or Buddhism, which
focus on self-mortification for the purpose of renunciation, to attain a sense of nothingness,
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no pain, suffering, or anguish.
One must go through a series of incarnations by which they learn to discipline themselves
out of attachments, seen as the source of suffering, the less attached to things you are, the
better off you will be.
There are bourgeois religions that are about self-improvement for a fee such as Scientology,
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the higher up you go, the more you pay.
There are prophetic religions, such as Islam, which center on the work of a singular leader
with a certain level of revelation attached.
But the revelation is incomplete.
For example, in Islam, there is the revelation of the message of Allah, but there is no revelation
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of Allah himself.
There are revelatory religions, such as Judaism and Christianity, by which a divine being
has revealed himself to humanity through that group.
The invitation is one that is personal rather than strictly doctrinal, and has the invitation
to also experience that revelation.
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This religious group mentioned above is not exclusive, and many overlap in different ways,
and often the way they are perceived by adherents, very depending on regional entity.
One thing very, very key to remember about religion is that it is a living thing.
It is something that is dynamic, and that means bottom line, religion isn't a static experience.
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It can be challenging to categorize it, and it can even be more challenging to try and
really understand it from the narration from which it comes.
Now having that basic understanding is the point where we start to get into some deeper
realities of religious differences.
Not all religions have the focal point of finding God.
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Buddhism, for example, has no final existence and no belief in God or God.
The gods, sometimes spoken of in Buddhism, are more cultural spirits, kind of like animistic
deities that represent virtues or ideas rather than actual literal beings.
The goal of Buddhism is to achieve Nirvana, a state of total nothingness that ends the
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cycle of death and rebirth in this life.
God or the idea of God, or a union with, or even discovery thereof is absolutely nowhere
to be found on the horizon.
This may teach on Allah's revealed teachings, but they do not believe Allah has revealed
Himself.
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Seeing Him is distant.
Their concept of the afterlife is one of indulgent pleasures rather than a focus on
eternity or unity with the divine.
The pantheon of Hindu deities, with various characteristics and personalities, without the
concept of false-god or idolatry, is completely different than these others.
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Buddhism seeks harmony with the universe, to achieve a sense of balance, not with a spiritual
deity.
I would go as far as to say, "Taoism really doesn't have a moral purpose in its origins,
whereas Confucianism, from the same country, is all about various social codes."
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Each of these religions mentioned doesn't have the express goal of finding God or finding
a deity at the end of it.
They have their own purposes and their own ideas about what's important, but finding God
in the sense we often talk about in Western theology is an entirely different construct.
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So I'm going to say, it's presumptuous to say that people are finding God in something
that God is in part of by design and virtue of their systematic understanding.
And I'm not saying that to minimize anyone's belief, I'm saying this is a fact.
If I didn't believe in something or that wasn't my pursuit and people insisted it was,
that would bother me, because it shows no respect or understanding for the actual purpose
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of my spiritual pursuit.
It's better to actually understand the concept rather than whitewash it as the same as everything
else.
A subheading of the belief that all religions lead to the same end is that we're all on
the same path in different directions.
This kind of statement doesn't make sense within its summary to begin with, and the nature
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of its assumption makes my head hurt.
First of all, we can't all be on the same path if we're not all on the same path.
I recognize and understand diversity, and that we can have different gifts and different
abilities within the same path.
But we've already established that all religious groups are not the same.
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They do not have the same outlook or goals.
And as a result, they do not represent movement on the same path.
They are different paths, different ways to see life into approach spiritual matters.
But they don't all lead to the same thing because they clearly say they don't all lead
to the same thing.
So let's stop assuming that we know better than the practitioners of these religions and
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stop telling them where they're going when they aren't going there.
In a bigger sense, this assumes others want to be on the same path, or have the same
understanding or want the same God in their lives as the end goal.
When perhaps they don't because that's not their religious proclivity.
I think we have a concept, especially if you were raised in connection with something Christian
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that we can't fathom people not wanting God, we can't fathom people willfully say no
wait, I want something else.
I remember a couple of stories that basically had the same end, and ironically enough, they
were both said by Christians, but they were Christians with very, very different doctrinal
outputs.
So for example, one of them was on a trip I was on in the Netherlands, and I was talking
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to the leaders there, and they were talking about what happened when people died, and how
could they basically see Jesus at the end of their lives and reject Him?
How could anybody want to do that?
And so she pretty much kind of had a back door belief that everybody was going to wind
up saved because they'd have this great spiritual lightmen at the end of their lives.
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And I had almost the same exact type of thinking said to me by somebody else in a totally
different denomination several years after that fact.
We can't fathom that somebody would really not want God, or that maybe that would really
not be their interest or their pursuit in life.
And I would say that our feeble attempts to make all religions the same is to appease
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our own sense of identity that no one would will fully turn away from God because God is for
everyone, and we are not comfortable with the idea that maybe somebody really willfully
chooses for whatever their reason that they don't want God.
And this is where our own theologies need caution because we think God's love and forgiveness
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is available without repentance.
And while God always does love us, He does not force us to experience His love.
Or does He force us to receive His forgiveness if it's not what we want?
If it's not our pursuit, it's not our pursuit.
And there are many in this world who make the choice that it's not what they want.
And we're not going to get into the reasons as to why that's someone's choice, whether
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it's cultural, as we've seen is intimately tied to many religious beliefs or expectations
or what have you, or whether it's just because it's not something that interests them, or
maybe it's because somebody doesn't believe in God, whatever the reasons are, there are
many who do make that choice.
And the reason we are commanded to proclaim the gospel is to give people that choice.
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Thus Jesus himself points out the differences in beliefs if people need to hear the gospel.
That means existing religions and there were many religions that exist today that were
present in that day and age as well that didn't have it.
So no, the whole world doesn't want to be on your path, or to blur all the paths into
one mess, or assume that your God is the aspiration waiting at the end of their purpose.
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Then this raises the question, and I do feel it is a fair question, what about the similarities
found among the world religions?
I think in our haste to make everything the same, we often push the similarities over the
differences as if there are more commonalities than differences, or as if the commonalities
somehow are more important and make the differences not matter.
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None of this is my promise to answer this particular question, but I think it's important
to point those things out.
While I couldn't find specific statistics for how much they have in common versus how much
they don't, like if we were to do percentages on foundational doctrine and beliefs, what
percent is in common and what percent is not.
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It's true that religious groups do have some basic values in common, especially if you
group the religious groups together by origin.
Now remember, religious groups weren't formed in a vacuum, and certain religious group
being formed from other groups, which does explain some of the similarities therein.
For example, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all believe in the importance of doing good
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works, implementing justice, being hospitable, and in some form of an afterlife.
But if we break down these examples, the definition of what justice is varies greatly
between these three religions, the execution of hospitality varies widely, what defines
a good work varies, and there are numerous explanations on the afterlife that do not
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agree with one another.
So while they might agree that those things are important as words, as concepts as values,
how they define and implement those things within their religious systems is very, very
different.
While Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe in one God, they all define that deity in
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different ways.
And I'm not of the belief that just because a group is specifically monotheistic, that they
all worship the same deity.
Liberation is a theme in most of the world's religions.
For example, it is a prominent theme in Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism, but the way it is understood
is different.
Buddhist see liberation from suffering, from the endless cycle of rebirth.
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Christians find liberation in salvation through Jesus Christ.
In Judaism, liberation is found by doing good while on earth.
So while yes, I would say there are some universal ideas found among the different religious
groups that doesn't mean those ideas are defined nor understood to have the same purpose or
the same end, or really an actuality to be the same thing.
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It does tell us that human nature is often looking for something similar, perhaps a similar
result even, but that doesn't mean everyone defines nor finds it in the same exact way.
And that needs to matter.
More than that is our approach religion with a disrespectful naivety that seemingly forces
the world to believe a singular thing without their agreement.
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Now we could see these commonalities as important gospel talking points and building
blocks, but instead we try to get around the realities of spiritual differences because
we don't like the idea of differences.
There is a marked difference between something being wise and something being saving.
And yes, there are many wise sayings, beneficial ideas, and good thoughts present in world religions.
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I'm not going to deny or pretend they aren't there.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging good ideas, sound thinking, and good thoughts,
nothing at all, and none of that is contradictory in any way to any faith.
There's nothing wrong with pointing out that some of the different religious groups have
overlapping wise thoughts.
There's nothing to say that some religions have interesting ideas.
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Nothing wrong with that at all.
But that's different than saying every religion in the world is saving with the proper understanding
of a Savior and of leading one to a systematic approach by which they will find God at
the end of it.
And we need to make this distinction because when we start saying everything is the same,
that's what we are saying and it isn't true.
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Then we deal with the assumption that all things are the same with the same God is another
example of the Western world forcing itself on everyone else, whether or not the rest
of the world wants it.
If you follow Christian trends at all, especially on social media, you'll note that there
are many who now feel that Christian missions are bad, we're always bad, and that people
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shouldn't engage in them in any form.
If you study the history of missions, it's not nearly this simple to brush them off this
way.
And I am feeling a definite trend by which we just want to brush stroke everything is being
one way or another without examining the nuances involved.
And isn't that overall how we're treating religion?
There were many who went into missions with the idea to conform others to Western values,
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there's no denying that, but there were also lots who went into missions who wanted to
preach the gospel or who wanted to help women in childbirth or who wanted to care for orphans
or who wanted an adventure or who wanted to educate others.
But the message behind the outrage is that Christians are imposing themselves on the rest
of the world.
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And I don't deny there have been examples of such in history, even in some instances
today, even though it's not all Christians.
Yet when it comes to seeming to accept all religions as the same, people are doing the
same thing they accuse Christians of doing, of focusing on a universal deity on the whole
world, whether or not they want that deity in their lives or belief systems.
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So that's the ultimate in Westerners forcing themselves on everyone, as usual, narrating
the message in the faith of others through a purely Western narration, without any consideration
for how others might feel about it.
Now all this having been said, believing religions have different purposes and different understandings
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doesn't make one a bigot, it doesn't make you bad, it means that you have enough of a fundamental
understanding of religion to recognize the differences present therein.
As far as I'm concerned, it shows respect for what others believe, as well as an understanding
of what you yourself believe.
As a Christian, I believe my faith to be a full-life view of the application of salvation through
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Jesus Christ.
I do believe that it is different from other religious systems, and as for believing it
is correct or incorrect, I do believe in what I believe.
But that doesn't mean everyone else has to, or that I have the right to force others to
believe it, or to be obnoxious about it.
So as much as I believe it is the right way that Jesus is the way to God, everyone else
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has the same right to decide for themselves.
We need to stop deciding for other people what they believe, what path they're on, and
what their spiritual lives are, and start figuring out our own a little bit better.
Last time I checked Christianity was dealing with its own messes, and while I definitely
believe in things such as missions and evangelization, I think we out-stop making all religions the
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same and figure out what makes ours different.
Let's also start recognizing that just because we recognize differences doesn't mean
that Christians have to reject people.
I've been in very diverse churches and not very diverse churches, but the gospel is for
everyone, and while our fundamental message is to turn from our idolatries and come to
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no Christ as Savior, we can't do this if we think all religions are the same or lead
on the same path.
We can't reject people because of their religious identity or background, but we must engage
much as the early apostles did with their understandings to help teach the fundamental
truths of the faith so that everybody else can make their decision accordingly.
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If you listen regularly to this podcast, you know that I love religion, especially the
study of it, because I think understanding religion is essential to recognizing civilizations
of spiritual understanding and life itself.
We cannot divorce the pursuit of religion from life, but not all religion is the same.
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And when it comes to faith and spirituality, we have to make choices as to what we believe,
while we believe it and why it's important to us.
We can't say everything is the same because it's not, and doing so not only imposes our
subs upon the rest of civilization, it also disregards what others do believe in why those
beliefs matter to them.
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Now maybe it will go a much longer way if we learn what others believe and learn how to
engage with them in a way they can understand and what we have to say rather than just
choking everything up to being the same.
It does make a huge difference, believe me.
And when we do this, it takes the fear out of spiritual belief, out of the idea that others
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are somehow both exotic and dangerous, and that when you get to the bottom of it, you
find people to love and neighbors to embrace rather than enemies to oppose.
I thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast today, and if you would like a book
that might help you understand a little bit more about what you believe, I recommend my
book "Just Between Us Christians" real answers to real questions submitted by real Christians.
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That's just between us Christians, real answers to real questions submitted by real Christians.
Look me up, Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino on Amazon.com or wherever books are sold and all of my titles
will show up, 35 in total.
Definitely get out there and check that out today.
There is something for everyone.
Also I encourage you to check out my pathos column at patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
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That's patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
It is a column that is devoted to all things dedicated to leadership and things that are related
to leadership.
So whether you are a leader or you are interested in learning more about leadership, that column
is for you over there once again at patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
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Also if you'd like to contact me, be in touch, talk about things that matter, give feedback
or just engage.
Look me up @KingdomPowerNow across the web.
That's @KingdomPowerNow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, WordPress and beyond
@KingdomPowerNow.
Let's start that conversation today.
I would love to hear from you.
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So if you'd like to learn more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel free
to visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
That's www.kingdompowernow.org.
Also if you are looking for a seminary that is entirely affordable because it is offering
based and most books are covered in your tuition, not to mention it is entirely modern and
devised in order to better understand ministry in our modern times, feel free to check out
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Apostolic Covenant Theological Seminary that's ACTS for short at acts176.org, that's acts176.org.
And if you are looking for your found family and you are in the Charlotte, North Carolina
area, first of all, make a point to visit us November 2nd and 3rd, 2024 for Transform 2024.
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That is our annual anniversary conference.
So feel free to check us out for that.
If you are looking for something more regular, feel free also to visit us at www.welcomeinthisplace.org.
That's www.welcomeinthisplace.org because your found family is waiting for you or than just
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(33:52):
So go there today and check that out.
And this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing that all religions may not be
the same but that doesn't mean that we have a breeding ground for disrespect.
So learn about what somebody else believes and grow in your respect for them where they
are at right now.
Until next time, be blessed.
(34:13):
Thank you for joining us on the Kingdom Now podcast today.
I pray it is proven to be a blessing in your life.
To learn more about this work, ask a question, submit feedback, advertise with us, be a guest,
or donate to support this work.
As our podcast is sponsored by listeners like you, visit my website which contains essential
(34:38):
information, projects and works for other points of contact around the web at www.kingdompowernow.org.
Also if you are in our area and would like to visit sanctuary international Fellowship
Tabernacle, visit www.welcomeinthisplace.org.
Until next time, this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino.
(34:59):
Remind you that the Kingdom of God is within you and that means the Kingdom is now.
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Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge.
(00:54):
As we celebrate the Kingdom of God within you.
I am your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, author, podcaster, professor and theologian,
and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I am excited to share this program with you as we explore the ends of counterculture
(01:16):
Christianity present as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.
Want to learn more?
Visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
And now, our program, which features a variety of formats here, just for you.
Interviews on a variety of relative topics, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from
(01:39):
my North Carolina studio to sanctuary and beyond.
And powerful insights here for now as we turn the world upside down everywhere we go.
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, happy whatever time of day is wherever you
(02:01):
are and to our listeners in Singapore, we say, "Ni hao."
We hope that whatever time of day is when you are listening that you are having a good
one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.
And I am your host, Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire serving as the voice
of counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel
(02:24):
free to visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
Well don't all religions lead to God, is our leading question here?
It's not a secret that a large part of this program is devoted to religion in one form
or another.
Often spoken of from a Christian perspective, but we have had guests on that are not
(02:45):
specifically Christian.
One kind, I also speak about religion from a factual perspective rather than one that's
specifically religious at times as well.
While we overall have beliefs, we also talk about what other people believe and not necessarily
in a derogatory manner and not in a derogatory manner, but just to understand better about
(03:07):
belief.
And in keeping with this, sometimes I get emails or fall into conversations with people who
either ask the question or claim to believe, well wait what?
Don't all religions lead to God.
This question, thought, musing, idea, whatever you want to call it, is often pursued in
(03:29):
earnest by people who either don't know much about religion
Don't know as much as they think about religion, or only have a basic, nominal, not very well
working idea of some religions, especially those practiced in the West, and tend to apply
their understanding of spirituality to everyone else.
(03:51):
And yes, I believe that needs to be said because I don't necessarily think people who believe
all religions lead to the same place are bad people, but they are often not professionals
or people who have devoted themselves to the study of religion in any sort of sense,
and as a result, their understanding of it is extremely incomplete.
Now it's not possible to cover all of religious understanding in a podcast episode.
(04:15):
I've studied religion my entire adult life, and believe me, it's much more complicated
than we can address in 30 to 40 or so minutes.
But by addressing different points under this heading, I think I can help all who listen
to get a better understanding of what it's about and why understanding it properly matters,
(04:35):
especially when this question comes up, because the question does come up very often.
So let's start with the question, what is religion?
I think this question is the first that needs to be answered, because we don't have a
good grasp on religion as a foundational issue.
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Today, religion is often spoken of as a thing of disdain, of something that's empty, meaningless
and without purpose, something that's void of God.
Sometimes people talk about it in the vein of something that's more optional, or something
that maybe constrains people in their lives, and that makes the entire narrative that
all religions lead to God sound empty in and of itself, because an awful lot of people
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don't feel there's anything relevant or redeemable in religion to begin with.
But the truth about religion is much more involved and detailed, and regardless of what one
believes personally, I think it's wrong to indicate we should just regard it as nothing,
or as something that has no purpose.
Yes, people have gone awry in religion throughout the centuries.
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This is definitely not a new thing, but that doesn't mean the concept of religion is
void in and of itself.
So to define religion, it isn't just one thing.
It's many things, and as a result, it often overlaps with other aspects of identity that
relate to culture, social interaction, and ultimately the beliefs one has about the greater
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sense of placement within the world, or sometimes the universe.
Religion is about more than just a search for God, or trying to understand God, although
that can be part of religion, it is not actually what defines it.
As a mix of things, religion relates to customs, to the systematic implementation and practice
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of those different systems, and the different elements that come together that make belief
systems unique.
These customs are behavioral and practice-based, relating to morals, beliefs, a general idea
of beliefs, not necessarily what we might associate with spiritual belief.
World view, sacred text, holy places, prophecies or predictions, ethics, organization, and
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things that are often seen as having supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements to them.
It's important to say that there is no specific scholarly consensus over what specifically
constitutes a religion.
Although there are a few major points that most groups embrace.
Religion overall could be described in a simpler way as humanity's search for meaning and
(07:21):
understanding of general life purpose and placement.
And whether or not one is religious, people are influenced by religion because religion
has a cultural element to it.
For example, you may not be into Christianity, you may not ever attend a church, or believe
in Jesus Christ, but you likely celebrate Christmas in some form or another.
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And I'd say Christmas isn't the best example because it's got its own origins, but for the
sake of influence it is something religious in the Western world that is associated with
Christianity, as part of being in a society with a strong Christian influence.
Religious influences can be both due to practice or culture, and religion heavily influences
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culture, whether we like it or not.
Which often has an impact on how someone sees the world.
In a pursuit to be anti-religious, one often rejects the concepts of the religious culture
they are most familiar.
And therefore, don't entirely abandon those ideals, but instead rebel against them.
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It's very hard to find people who actually believe in nothing, regardless of what they might
say.
The rejection of religion or specified religious beliefs aren't believing in nothing, they
are the rejection of something that is still standing as their definition of something.
To put religion in perspective, there are an estimated somewhere around 10,000 religions
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worldwide, although most of those religions would be defined as indigenous, with regionally
based small, isolated followings.
And most of those groups have similarities with other indigenous religions, although
specifications are unique to their surroundings.
Four religions account for almost 80% of the world's population, and these are Christianity,
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Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism.
92% of the world follows one of these world religions, or identifies as non-religious,
while some non-religious may still maintain some religious beliefs.
See how this gets complicated.
This means over 9,000 of the world's religions are practiced by only about 8% of the world's
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population combined.
So truth to be told, the world of religion is far bigger than just our understanding of
any Western culture.
It's extremely diverse, even though only a small percentage of the world may practice
with much diversity.
And even among bigger religions, the way religion is often viewed varies greatly depending
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upon location, and region and culture involved.
Judaism in Brooklyn, New York looks different than it does in Israel, for example.
Protestant Christianity varies greatly from orthodoxy found in Eastern Europe.
Roman Catholicism in Italy is different from the piety of Catholicism in Ireland.
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The Buddhism of Tibet has variations from Buddhism in the far east.
Christianity in the northern part of the United States varies from that in the southern United
States, as well as the Midwest or the West.
If there are no other takeaways from these stats, recognized religion is diverse, it's
different among practitioners and locations, and because of such it has very vast and different
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purposes.
It is not said as a judgment against any particular religious group or to exalt one above the other.
It's just a fact, religions are different, they are designed to be different, and that's
why not all religions seem to be the same, because they're not.
If there is something we've been saying a lot over the past several years, it's supposed
(11:10):
to be that being different is all right, and it's all right to acknowledge differences.
But in acknowledging differences, we all recognize and accept that differences are a thing,
and we don't have the right to minimize those differences because they change in incorrect
narrative we've espoused for a long time.
So before we really do anything else, we need to adjust our attitude about religion in general.
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Yes, religion exists.
Whether or not you think all religion is legitimate or not doesn't change the fact that it exists.
Religion is very key to understanding both history and culture.
We cannot understand either without some working knowledge of religious function, and religions
are not all the same.
They have vastly different functions, goals, desires, worldviews, perspectives, and purposes.
(12:00):
And it's pretty much possible to find a religious view that supports what you think or how you
feel if you try hard enough.
But there is no possible way to write the fence and say all religions are the same with
the same purpose.
It's not that just say religions don't have some things in common.
No, it's not.
And we will talk about this more later on.
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But just because something might have an occasional cross-value or idea doesn't make them the
same.
Given the diversity of religions, we can divide them up into a few categories to help us
better understand what we're talking about.
So there are indigenous religions that are about spirits, animism, and finding different
harmonies with these spirits, especially trying to keep them happy throughout the world.
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There are occult religions, such as those that often overlap with paganism, whichcraft,
and the New Age movement.
That's seem to manipulate natural elements for the sake of controlling spiritual entities
to find favor.
Receive certain powers or engage in certain practices.
Many of these also contain fertility elements that worship reproductive powers.
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We might call fertility cults.
There are imperial religions, which relate to political authority and obtaining political
ideals.
One might not consider such to actually be a religion, but history does prove otherwise.
Whether it was prevalent among the ancient Egyptians or Romans, the Shinto empires, or
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the work of Hitler, Mao, Kim Jong-un, and Stalin.
I'll have a certain element of worshiping an earthly leader who has the powers or imagery
of a god.
There are ascetic religions, such as some strains of Hinduism, Jainism, or Buddhism, which
focus on self-mortification for the purpose of renunciation, to attain a sense of nothingness,
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no pain, suffering, or anguish.
One must go through a series of incarnations by which they learn to discipline themselves
out of attachments, seen as the source of suffering, the less attached to things you are, the
better off you will be.
There are bourgeois religions that are about self-improvement for a fee such as Scientology,
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the higher up you go, the more you pay.
There are prophetic religions, such as Islam, which center on the work of a singular leader
with a certain level of revelation attached.
But the revelation is incomplete.
For example, in Islam, there is the revelation of the message of Allah, but there is no revelation
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of Allah himself.
There are revelatory religions, such as Judaism and Christianity, by which a divine being
has revealed himself to humanity through that group.
The invitation is one that is personal rather than strictly doctrinal, and has the invitation
to also experience that revelation.
(15:02):
This religious group mentioned above is not exclusive, and many overlap in different ways,
and often the way they are perceived by adherents, very depending on regional entity.
One thing very, very key to remember about religion is that it is a living thing.
It is something that is dynamic, and that means bottom line, religion isn't a static experience.
(15:24):
It can be challenging to categorize it, and it can even be more challenging to try and
really understand it from the narration from which it comes.
Now having that basic understanding is the point where we start to get into some deeper
realities of religious differences.
Not all religions have the focal point of finding God.
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Buddhism, for example, has no final existence and no belief in God or God.
The gods, sometimes spoken of in Buddhism, are more cultural spirits, kind of like animistic
deities that represent virtues or ideas rather than actual literal beings.
The goal of Buddhism is to achieve Nirvana, a state of total nothingness that ends the
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cycle of death and rebirth in this life.
God or the idea of God, or a union with, or even discovery thereof is absolutely nowhere
to be found on the horizon.
This may teach on Allah's revealed teachings, but they do not believe Allah has revealed
Himself.
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Seeing Him is distant.
Their concept of the afterlife is one of indulgent pleasures rather than a focus on
eternity or unity with the divine.
The pantheon of Hindu deities, with various characteristics and personalities, without the
concept of false-god or idolatry, is completely different than these others.
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Buddhism seeks harmony with the universe, to achieve a sense of balance, not with a spiritual
deity.
I would go as far as to say, "Taoism really doesn't have a moral purpose in its origins,
whereas Confucianism, from the same country, is all about various social codes."
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Each of these religions mentioned doesn't have the express goal of finding God or finding
a deity at the end of it.
They have their own purposes and their own ideas about what's important, but finding God
in the sense we often talk about in Western theology is an entirely different construct.
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So I'm going to say, it's presumptuous to say that people are finding God in something
that God is in part of by design and virtue of their systematic understanding.
And I'm not saying that to minimize anyone's belief, I'm saying this is a fact.
If I didn't believe in something or that wasn't my pursuit and people insisted it was,
that would bother me, because it shows no respect or understanding for the actual purpose
(17:56):
of my spiritual pursuit.
It's better to actually understand the concept rather than whitewash it as the same as everything
else.
A subheading of the belief that all religions lead to the same end is that we're all on
the same path in different directions.
This kind of statement doesn't make sense within its summary to begin with, and the nature
(18:19):
of its assumption makes my head hurt.
First of all, we can't all be on the same path if we're not all on the same path.
I recognize and understand diversity, and that we can have different gifts and different
abilities within the same path.
But we've already established that all religious groups are not the same.
(18:39):
They do not have the same outlook or goals.
And as a result, they do not represent movement on the same path.
They are different paths, different ways to see life into approach spiritual matters.
But they don't all lead to the same thing because they clearly say they don't all lead
to the same thing.
So let's stop assuming that we know better than the practitioners of these religions and
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stop telling them where they're going when they aren't going there.
In a bigger sense, this assumes others want to be on the same path, or have the same
understanding or want the same God in their lives as the end goal.
When perhaps they don't because that's not their religious proclivity.
I think we have a concept, especially if you were raised in connection with something Christian
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that we can't fathom people not wanting God, we can't fathom people willfully say no
wait, I want something else.
I remember a couple of stories that basically had the same end, and ironically enough, they
were both said by Christians, but they were Christians with very, very different doctrinal
outputs.
So for example, one of them was on a trip I was on in the Netherlands, and I was talking
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to the leaders there, and they were talking about what happened when people died, and how
could they basically see Jesus at the end of their lives and reject Him?
How could anybody want to do that?
And so she pretty much kind of had a back door belief that everybody was going to wind
up saved because they'd have this great spiritual lightmen at the end of their lives.
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And I had almost the same exact type of thinking said to me by somebody else in a totally
different denomination several years after that fact.
We can't fathom that somebody would really not want God, or that maybe that would really
not be their interest or their pursuit in life.
And I would say that our feeble attempts to make all religions the same is to appease
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our own sense of identity that no one would will fully turn away from God because God is for
everyone, and we are not comfortable with the idea that maybe somebody really willfully
chooses for whatever their reason that they don't want God.
And this is where our own theologies need caution because we think God's love and forgiveness
(20:55):
is available without repentance.
And while God always does love us, He does not force us to experience His love.
Or does He force us to receive His forgiveness if it's not what we want?
If it's not our pursuit, it's not our pursuit.
And there are many in this world who make the choice that it's not what they want.
And we're not going to get into the reasons as to why that's someone's choice, whether
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it's cultural, as we've seen is intimately tied to many religious beliefs or expectations
or what have you, or whether it's just because it's not something that interests them, or
maybe it's because somebody doesn't believe in God, whatever the reasons are, there are
many who do make that choice.
And the reason we are commanded to proclaim the gospel is to give people that choice.
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Thus Jesus himself points out the differences in beliefs if people need to hear the gospel.
That means existing religions and there were many religions that exist today that were
present in that day and age as well that didn't have it.
So no, the whole world doesn't want to be on your path, or to blur all the paths into
one mess, or assume that your God is the aspiration waiting at the end of their purpose.
(22:04):
Then this raises the question, and I do feel it is a fair question, what about the similarities
found among the world religions?
I think in our haste to make everything the same, we often push the similarities over the
differences as if there are more commonalities than differences, or as if the commonalities
somehow are more important and make the differences not matter.
(22:29):
None of this is my promise to answer this particular question, but I think it's important
to point those things out.
While I couldn't find specific statistics for how much they have in common versus how much
they don't, like if we were to do percentages on foundational doctrine and beliefs, what
percent is in common and what percent is not.
(22:50):
It's true that religious groups do have some basic values in common, especially if you
group the religious groups together by origin.
Now remember, religious groups weren't formed in a vacuum, and certain religious group
being formed from other groups, which does explain some of the similarities therein.
For example, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all believe in the importance of doing good
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works, implementing justice, being hospitable, and in some form of an afterlife.
But if we break down these examples, the definition of what justice is varies greatly
between these three religions, the execution of hospitality varies widely, what defines
a good work varies, and there are numerous explanations on the afterlife that do not
(23:39):
agree with one another.
So while they might agree that those things are important as words, as concepts as values,
how they define and implement those things within their religious systems is very, very
different.
While Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe in one God, they all define that deity in
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different ways.
And I'm not of the belief that just because a group is specifically monotheistic, that they
all worship the same deity.
Liberation is a theme in most of the world's religions.
For example, it is a prominent theme in Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism, but the way it is understood
is different.
Buddhist see liberation from suffering, from the endless cycle of rebirth.
(24:26):
Christians find liberation in salvation through Jesus Christ.
In Judaism, liberation is found by doing good while on earth.
So while yes, I would say there are some universal ideas found among the different religious
groups that doesn't mean those ideas are defined nor understood to have the same purpose or
the same end, or really an actuality to be the same thing.
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It does tell us that human nature is often looking for something similar, perhaps a similar
result even, but that doesn't mean everyone defines nor finds it in the same exact way.
And that needs to matter.
More than that is our approach religion with a disrespectful naivety that seemingly forces
the world to believe a singular thing without their agreement.
(25:13):
Now we could see these commonalities as important gospel talking points and building
blocks, but instead we try to get around the realities of spiritual differences because
we don't like the idea of differences.
There is a marked difference between something being wise and something being saving.
And yes, there are many wise sayings, beneficial ideas, and good thoughts present in world religions.
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I'm not going to deny or pretend they aren't there.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging good ideas, sound thinking, and good thoughts,
nothing at all, and none of that is contradictory in any way to any faith.
There's nothing wrong with pointing out that some of the different religious groups have
overlapping wise thoughts.
There's nothing to say that some religions have interesting ideas.
(26:01):
Nothing wrong with that at all.
But that's different than saying every religion in the world is saving with the proper understanding
of a Savior and of leading one to a systematic approach by which they will find God at
the end of it.
And we need to make this distinction because when we start saying everything is the same,
that's what we are saying and it isn't true.
(26:25):
Then we deal with the assumption that all things are the same with the same God is another
example of the Western world forcing itself on everyone else, whether or not the rest
of the world wants it.
If you follow Christian trends at all, especially on social media, you'll note that there
are many who now feel that Christian missions are bad, we're always bad, and that people
(26:46):
shouldn't engage in them in any form.
If you study the history of missions, it's not nearly this simple to brush them off this
way.
And I am feeling a definite trend by which we just want to brush stroke everything is being
one way or another without examining the nuances involved.
And isn't that overall how we're treating religion?
There were many who went into missions with the idea to conform others to Western values,
(27:10):
there's no denying that, but there were also lots who went into missions who wanted to
preach the gospel or who wanted to help women in childbirth or who wanted to care for orphans
or who wanted an adventure or who wanted to educate others.
But the message behind the outrage is that Christians are imposing themselves on the rest
of the world.
(27:30):
And I don't deny there have been examples of such in history, even in some instances
today, even though it's not all Christians.
Yet when it comes to seeming to accept all religions as the same, people are doing the
same thing they accuse Christians of doing, of focusing on a universal deity on the whole
world, whether or not they want that deity in their lives or belief systems.
(27:53):
So that's the ultimate in Westerners forcing themselves on everyone, as usual, narrating
the message in the faith of others through a purely Western narration, without any consideration
for how others might feel about it.
Now all this having been said, believing religions have different purposes and different understandings
(28:14):
doesn't make one a bigot, it doesn't make you bad, it means that you have enough of a fundamental
understanding of religion to recognize the differences present therein.
As far as I'm concerned, it shows respect for what others believe, as well as an understanding
of what you yourself believe.
As a Christian, I believe my faith to be a full-life view of the application of salvation through
(28:37):
Jesus Christ.
I do believe that it is different from other religious systems, and as for believing it
is correct or incorrect, I do believe in what I believe.
But that doesn't mean everyone else has to, or that I have the right to force others to
believe it, or to be obnoxious about it.
So as much as I believe it is the right way that Jesus is the way to God, everyone else
(28:58):
has the same right to decide for themselves.
We need to stop deciding for other people what they believe, what path they're on, and
what their spiritual lives are, and start figuring out our own a little bit better.
Last time I checked Christianity was dealing with its own messes, and while I definitely
believe in things such as missions and evangelization, I think we out-stop making all religions the
(29:21):
same and figure out what makes ours different.
Let's also start recognizing that just because we recognize differences doesn't mean
that Christians have to reject people.
I've been in very diverse churches and not very diverse churches, but the gospel is for
everyone, and while our fundamental message is to turn from our idolatries and come to
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no Christ as Savior, we can't do this if we think all religions are the same or lead
on the same path.
We can't reject people because of their religious identity or background, but we must engage
much as the early apostles did with their understandings to help teach the fundamental
truths of the faith so that everybody else can make their decision accordingly.
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If you listen regularly to this podcast, you know that I love religion, especially the
study of it, because I think understanding religion is essential to recognizing civilizations
of spiritual understanding and life itself.
We cannot divorce the pursuit of religion from life, but not all religion is the same.
(30:32):
And when it comes to faith and spirituality, we have to make choices as to what we believe,
while we believe it and why it's important to us.
We can't say everything is the same because it's not, and doing so not only imposes our
subs upon the rest of civilization, it also disregards what others do believe in why those
beliefs matter to them.
(30:54):
Now maybe it will go a much longer way if we learn what others believe and learn how to
engage with them in a way they can understand and what we have to say rather than just
choking everything up to being the same.
It does make a huge difference, believe me.
And when we do this, it takes the fear out of spiritual belief, out of the idea that others
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are somehow both exotic and dangerous, and that when you get to the bottom of it, you
find people to love and neighbors to embrace rather than enemies to oppose.
I thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast today, and if you would like a book
that might help you understand a little bit more about what you believe, I recommend my
book "Just Between Us Christians" real answers to real questions submitted by real Christians.
(31:38):
That's just between us Christians, real answers to real questions submitted by real Christians.
Look me up, Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino on Amazon.com or wherever books are sold and all of my titles
will show up, 35 in total.
Definitely get out there and check that out today.
There is something for everyone.
Also I encourage you to check out my pathos column at patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
(32:02):
That's patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
It is a column that is devoted to all things dedicated to leadership and things that are related
to leadership.
So whether you are a leader or you are interested in learning more about leadership, that column
is for you over there once again at patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire.
(32:23):
Also if you'd like to contact me, be in touch, talk about things that matter, give feedback
or just engage.
Look me up @KingdomPowerNow across the web.
That's @KingdomPowerNow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, WordPress and beyond
@KingdomPowerNow.
Let's start that conversation today.
I would love to hear from you.
(32:44):
So if you'd like to learn more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel free
to visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
That's www.kingdompowernow.org.
Also if you are looking for a seminary that is entirely affordable because it is offering
based and most books are covered in your tuition, not to mention it is entirely modern and
devised in order to better understand ministry in our modern times, feel free to check out
(33:08):
Apostolic Covenant Theological Seminary that's ACTS for short at acts176.org, that's acts176.org.
And if you are looking for your found family and you are in the Charlotte, North Carolina
area, first of all, make a point to visit us November 2nd and 3rd, 2024 for Transform 2024.
(33:31):
That is our annual anniversary conference.
So feel free to check us out for that.
If you are looking for something more regular, feel free also to visit us at www.welcomeinthisplace.org.
That's www.welcomeinthisplace.org because your found family is waiting for you or than just
a church we are a spiritual community.
(33:52):
So go there today and check that out.
And this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing that all religions may not be
the same but that doesn't mean that we have a breeding ground for disrespect.
So learn about what somebody else believes and grow in your respect for them where they
are at right now.
Until next time, be blessed.
(34:13):
Thank you for joining us on the Kingdom Now podcast today.
I pray it is proven to be a blessing in your life.
To learn more about this work, ask a question, submit feedback, advertise with us, be a guest,
or donate to support this work.
As our podcast is sponsored by listeners like you, visit my website which contains essential
(34:38):
information, projects and works for other points of contact around the web at www.kingdompowernow.org.
Also if you are in our area and would like to visit sanctuary international Fellowship
Tabernacle, visit www.welcomeinthisplace.org.
Until next time, this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino.
(34:59):
Remind you that the Kingdom of God is within you and that means the Kingdom is now.
[MUSIC]
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