Fandom Incorporated

There are as many fandoms as there are people. With differing views on various fandoms, is it possible for a fandom to draw you closer to God? Join Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino and returning guests Ministers Nik Lewis and Charlie Reep (Sanctuary International Fellowship Tabernacle - SIFT, Charlotte, North Carolina) as they discuss their fandoms and the spiritual insights they inspire. (Intro and conclusion track "No Mistakes" provided by https://slip.stream/748LSd)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[MUSIC]

(00:04):
Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge, as we celebrate the Kingdom of God within you.
I'm your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, Author and Theologian, and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I'm excited to share this program with you as we explore the ins and outs of Counterculture Christianity present as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.

(00:32):
Want to learn more? Visit my website at Kingdompowernow.org.
And now our program, which features a variety of formats here, just for you.
And interviews, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from my North Carolina studio to sanctuary and beyond, and powerful insights here for now, as we turn the world upside down everywhere we go.

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[MUSIC]
[APPLAUSE]
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, happy whatever time of day it is wherever you are and name a country.

(01:18):
Poland.
Okay, to our listeners in Poland, we say, "dobry dzien."
We hope that whatever time of day it is when you are listening, that you are having a good one.
And that was a great suggestion.
And we welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast, and I'm your host,
Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here, as the Spitfire serving as the voice of Counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.

(01:44):
And if you would like to learn more about the world of Counterculture Christianity, feel free to visit my website at Kingdompowernow.org.
It has been a very long day, and we are all tired.
Anyway, the world of faith often pops up or when least expected, while people might obviously think,
you're going to have a word from God, you're going to have an experience from God if you read the Bible, or if you listen to spiritual

(02:08):
music, or if you go to church.
And those are all great things to do.
We're not putting those down, but the truth is that if the story is everywhere, as we often say,
then that means that God can reach out to us literally using anything.
And so what happens when we find our faith in unexpected places?

(02:31):
So today I'm joined by my two guests.
We have ministers Nik Lewis and Charlie Reep are returning, and they are both leaders at Sanctuary International Fellowship Tabernacle in Charlotte.
And I'm going to let the two of them introduce themselves. So y'all take it away.
Go ahead, Nik.

(02:53):
Hello.
Okay, you're here.
And hello, I'm Nik, and I'm going ahead.
I'm minister Nik pronouns they/them worship leader for sanctuary, as well as minister of music.
That's my other title. I keep forgetting somehow.
We're returning guests on the podcast.

(03:13):
It's been a while, so glad to be back.
And I run a blog.
It's called nikfits.com.
That's N-I-K-F-I-T-S.com.
And yeah, hit me up on there.
There should be a linktree on there to my social media on there too.
So yeah, fun time.
Hey, I'm Charlie.

(03:34):
Minister of education is, I guess, my official title.
They/them pronoun user.
And I also have a blog.
It's called beloved not broken.
It is beloved-not-broken.com.
Got that fancy, fancy URL there.
Also, one has to have a fancy URL.
Okay.
That's better than like dot wordpress.com.

(03:56):
Okay, fair. We both did trade up.
We did. We upgraded.
Children.
We're recording.
You can edit this out. It's fine.
Sure. Oh no.
I'm no.
Oh no.
No.
I'm leaving it in.
Okay.
So faith in unexpected places.

(04:20):
Who wants to go first?
I vote Chuck since I picked the topic.
Okay. I'm pretty sure you came up with the idea and wrote it down.
Well.
That I will.
I will go first and do actually have something pulled up.
So I mostly get,

(04:42):
well, I guess I should go back.
I am a big ol geek.
So I like watching movies.
Let's be real.
I like watching one movie.
And that is the 2013 masterpiece called Pacific Rim.
I love it.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
What did you call it?
The 2013 masterpiece.

(05:03):
Yes.
Okay.
I wanna make
sure I heard you right.
Yeah.
So I can make fun of you later.
Okay.
Oh, be my guest.
be my guest.
It's fine.
I also like playing video games.
I say video games.
I pretty much play two video games, Skyrim and Borderlands.
And I like watching maybe a handful of TV shows.

(05:24):
So the stuff I'm really into,
I can get a lot out of theology wise to the point where I actually
on my blog or on my website have a page called "Nerdy Commentaries."
And so I have done so far.
I've done four posts.
How basically Christianity and faith relates to

(05:46):
pop culture.
I do it mostly with Marvel.
And yeah, like three, three of the posts I've done
have been about Marvel because I was really into Marvel at one time.
And so I've done everything from
church leaders and the quest for sacred timeline.
Very similar to

(06:07):
the first season of the Loki TV show.
By the way, my posts contain a lot of spoilers.
So if you are not one who enjoys being spoiled to things,
maybe try an older blog post.
But I've also done a post about
fandom culture. So in fandom culture, there's something called

(06:27):
Canon, C-A-N-O-N named after the biblical Canon.
And then there is a fan version of that called
Fanon F-A-N-O-N, which is basically like
generally accepted beliefs about something that doesn't
necessarily have an origin in a book, movie, film, whatever.

(06:50):
And I have done one about
church history meeting fandom culture.
So the title is, if the Bible is canon,
then church tradition is fanon.
So all of this to say that I find faith
in a lot of
entertainment stuff.
It's mostly to do with the overall themes of something.

(07:13):
So I've written about something about like found families.
Mostly it is,
I would say current events.
Or historical events because we're talking about church history.
But I notice a lot of parallel between
ideas in pop culture and spiritual themes in the Bible, if that makes sense.

(07:36):
Actually that makes a lot of sense.
And
given all the things you just said, because actually as you were talking,
I was thinking, yeah, this is you.
And I wasn't saying that in a funny way or in a negative way,
or in a making fun of you way.
That's okay.

(07:57):
It's sincerely that this is who you are,
that these are your interests,
these are your representations.
And so you find faith in a lot of pop culture.
So using these, one of these specific examples,
and I'm actually going to say,
use the example of Pacific Rim because it is your favorite.

(08:18):
And because you get so much out of it, what is an example of something from faith that you find a Pacific Rim?
I can talk about the one post I've done that's actually published.
I was working on another one.
That's going to explore the,
I guess more overt spiritual themes in the movie.
So,
side note, let me go ahead and explain the plot of Pacific Rim for those who have not seen this movie.

(08:42):
It basically is a summer blockbuster involving giant monsters and giant
robots fighting each other.
That is it. That's pretty much the whole movie,
but it is directed by Guillermo del Toro.
So the cinematography is off the charts.
The CGI holds up really well because
del Toro really put a lot of thought and respect into

(09:05):
what the animators do.
And so even though this is a 10-year-old movie,
like it doesn't look like it's 10 years old, if you know what I mean.
So, basic synopsis of Pacific Rim is that you've got these giant monsters
emerging from the depths of the Pacific Ocean.
They're attacking cities at random.

(09:28):
The only thing that can stop them are the sky scraper-sized robots
piloted by two people who have to essentially share a brain cell,
which opens up a lot of implications for
shenanigans and shared trauma and stuff like that.
But that's neither here nor there.

(09:50):
So the entire plot of the movie is like, okay,
there's going to be this one pivotal event where a whole bunch of monsters are going to come out.
We have to close the entry point before that happens.
And so it's basically a race against time.
But I find a lot more,
what I find interesting about Pacific Rim is not necessarily the action.

(10:14):
Even though that's fun, it is the character dynamics.
So there's a heavy emphasis on Found Family in this movie,
where you have all of these people from different walks of life.
There are different nationalities. They speak different languages.
The movie is set in Hong Kong.
So already it is very far removed from America at the center,

(10:36):
which is very refreshing to see.
Side note.
And all of these people have to work together
to save the world.
And so the blog that I have done recently called Pacific Rim found families in the early church.
I did about how the family of choice or the Found Family resonates

(10:59):
or it's present in both the movie and in the early church as described in Acts 2.
And I have some nice diagrams for those who've not seen the movie.
They do contain
stills from the movie. So if you are the kind of person who doesn't want any spoilers, maybe skip it.
But other than that, it's very informative.
I explain who some of these characters are,

(11:20):
why they're important, how they relate to others.
And then I go into Acts 2.
And I mentioned that the first Christian converts were from all over the Roman Empire,
and they all converged on the one location for what we know as the event called Pentecost.
And I basically explain how the church was the original Found Family.

(11:45):
I quote from scripture.
I basically talk about what made Christianity so inviting in the first century.
And then I conclude with by saying one Savior, one Spirit, one Spiritual Family.
And I basically bring about the point like, you know, we've gone, we've read Acts 2.
We've seen how

(12:06):
communally focused the church was. So what happened? And I basically said, human nature happened.
It's easy to draw lines in the sand over trivial issues, even ones that we think are serious.
And if we're honest with ourselves, this has been happening since the day of Pentecost.
But here's the thing, we're called to be different and always have them.
And I don't have a cool way to end it.

(12:28):
That's basically one of the biggest things I've gotten out of Pacific Rim, among other things.
Is this concept of the Found Family like relating directly to the formation of the early church?
Well, you don't have to have a cool ending because that is a cool ending.
Okay, I appreciate it. I mean, actually, well, it's kind of a cool beginning.

(12:49):
Because you're basically saying that these people had to come together,
basically kind of in a certain sense to save the world.
And well, we don't ever think about what happens after that.
No, we don't.
You know, they have to start again.
Yeah, yeah, and how a lot of, you know, we also don't talk about the lives that

(13:14):
early Christians left behind.
So I don't know if it's in first Timothy or what, but there is a point where
the Apostle Timothy is mentioned as having, is that a Greek,
or no, a Greek father and a Jewish mother, is that correct?
Yes.

(13:35):
Okay, so, and then Paul mentions in some of his letters that I couldn't tell you which one
this is, but he mentions that for the sake of the kingdom, you know, don't leave your spouse
who hasn't converted to Christianity yet, basically stay in the circumstances required or

(14:00):
you know, if your spouse doesn't like the fact that you converted to Christianity and they divorce
you, you know, that's totally fine.
Well, it wouldn't have been totally fine back then, but he's just like, you know what,
just go through with the divorce.
But Christians shouldn't in this context, let me clarify, in the context that we're talking about,
in the early church, right after the emergence of Christianity,

(14:24):
Paul dissuaded Christians from divorcing their pagan spouses.
You know, that was also 2,000 years ago, so there was context to that, but
we don't talk about the fact that, you know, people very well were abandoned by their spouses,
were abandoned by their families and support systems when they converted to Christianity.

(14:49):
It's just kind of, oh, we paint this, this happy, go lucky picture of the church,
but we don't consider what comes after that.
And, Lee Ann, I'm glad that you brought that up because one of the appeals of being in the Pacific
Rim fandom is the fanfiction, and there are tons of stories involving what happens after the end

(15:13):
of the movie, because the movie ends on a bittersweet note. I'm not telling you what happens at the end of
the movie, but then you have to think about the implications of that ending.
So like you're celebrating for a little bit for one reason, and then you're like, oh, maybe
we should think about what happens afterwards. So that's a great point that you brought up.

(15:36):
Nik, what would you like to jump in here with?
Okay, well, not to sound like I copy Chuck, but I also get a lot of fandom related.
Copy, if anything, I copied you. You're totally fine.
I get a lot of spiritual insight from pop culture. If you know me, IRL or follow my blog, you know,

(16:01):
I have not stopped shutting up about one piece for a few years.
You have not.
No, I have not so much so that I am now doing a One Piece blog series kind of exploring
the faith and spiritual topics. One of the most recent ones I did, I forget exactly what it was called,
but basically talking about how different members of Luffy's crew, which if you don't know about

(16:27):
the plot of One Piece, you can google it, but it's basically stretchy rubber kid wants to become
king of the pirates and be the freest person in the world. That's, does basically it.
And he forcibly adopts crew members on the way. Crew members slash friends, but anyway,
forcibly, I mean, he kind of he kind of does like in the first few episodes, he looks at

(16:49):
Zora, he's like, hey, I'll free you, but only if you agree to join my crew. It was like, Luffy,
that's not how you make friends, but okay. But he still made friends.
I mean, he did, but it's like blackmail is not that's not how he's got it, but
yeah, and how every member of the crew has a different role and you kind of get down until

(17:10):
if you don't want spoilers for One Piece, kind of like tune out for the next couple minutes,
when you get to Robin, she's the crew's archaeologist. That's not really something you would think,
you know, a pirate crew would need, but she is the one who can read ancient writings, which give
a clue to this one hundred year period of history that has been completely blocked out from the

(17:33):
world. And that's kind of important to figuring things out and helping Luffy achieve more of his
goal. And there's a whole lot of other plot stuff in there, but so she's needed. And I related that
back to, I want to say it's first Corinthians 12, where it talks about we are all part of the body
and everyone is a member of the body of Christ, basically. Okay, cool. That's right. Yeah, remember the

(17:59):
thing and how the passage kind of talks about if it's the ear said, I'm not as beautiful as the eye,
maybe I should just go or if I'm paraphrasing at this point, but the tone it was like, I'm not as
beautiful as hand, maybe I should just leave. And it's like, no, we still need all of you.

(18:20):
And that's kind of how I related that back, but I've also gotten inspiration from like
music, you know, minister of music, that's kind of my thing on our communal blog, which we keep forgetting
to promote on this one. It's what is it? Welcome in this place, dot WordPress.
It's youarewelcomeinthisplace.WordPress.com. So we have one of those old blog addresses

(18:47):
with WordPress in it. We should trade up next year then on that blog. Yeah, on that blog, I did,
I've done a few posts, but one of the first ones I did on there was K-pop inspired. And I'm also
going to be that minister for a second and mentioned that one of these sermons I did earlier this year

(19:09):
was called Jesus is the Safeword. So yeah, there's nothing, what is it? Nothing so secular can't be made
sacred. So I had the first dose. Yeah, but yeah, but with that, I kind of talked about spiritual
liberation with it. So it's not like I was a total heathen, but yeah.

(19:30):
Continue. Oh, that's that's all I got. Oh, that's all I got. Okay.
So to kind of go off of these two, I don't really have fandoms like they do.

(19:56):
I like music. And if anything, probably the thing that has spoken to me the most in my life,
historically is music. And what's happened now is they play my music at the grocery store, which I
don't know how I feel about that. Oh, no. Thank you. It's very, very traumatic. But I don't play video

(20:24):
games. I don't watch a lot of TV. I do have shows that I have watched so many times. I can recite the
dialogue from them. And when I started out in ministry, the thing that was really kind of interesting
was that I kind of did what you guys did in my messages, only obviously they were older things. So

(20:47):
one of the biggest musical influences in the 90s was Grunge. And one of the things that kind of
struck me when I became a seminary student and obviously Grunge was over by then was that all
these guys I went to school with were listening to Soundgarden. And they were listening to these

(21:09):
songs that were about the apocalypse such as Black Hole Sun or Fourth of July. And there was also
a lot of very socially conscious music. So if we go back a little bit further, we had Metallica with
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And several of their songs have biblical themes if you listen close

(21:31):
enough. And they may not be biblical themes like you want to go and sing about the Four Horsemen of
the Apocalypse during praise and worship at your church. But they still offer a message and a
counterpoint to our faith that I don't think we often think of. One of the themes that you guys both
pick up on very much in your interest was found family. And how much that spoke to you in the

(21:57):
different genres that interested you. And so in my particular interest was always these very
strong themes that maybe we're supposed to bring community awareness that we needed to be aware
of what was going on around us and that we were often very much ignorant to it. And that theology

(22:19):
could be something that we could hear in a song just as easily as it could be something that we hear
in a pulpit. But we don't consider that because we often reject the source. And now we're all going

(22:40):
to think about that. So having said all this and we just all gave three examples where faith and
interest overlap as well as faith and spirituality kind of are found in unspoken places. So

(23:01):
let's say somebody's listening to this and they're really interested in finding more faith
in their show or recognizing it for what it is. How would you suggest people go about that?
I would say you kind of have to know a little bit about Christianity before you can pick up on

(23:22):
things of it elsewhere. I'm coming from a different standpoint. I was practically born and raised in
the church, specifically missionary Baptist, black Baptist, which was kind of evangelical to the left,
which I have feelings about now, but anyway. And I was a private Christian school from like

(23:43):
kindergarten to eighth grade. So I've been pretty immersed in church and because that's kind of
been so ingrained in me for years when I watch things, I'm just kind of like, oh, this is a Jesus thing.
Like one example, which I keep bringing up because I want someone on here to watch it. The show

(24:05):
Norigami basically there are spirits in the show that can latch onto an individual and cause them to
behave in ways that they wouldn't otherwise do so, which is more basically possession if you
read it about it in the Bible. So when I see things like that, it's like, oh, hey, this is like that

(24:29):
thing that is kind of hard to read in Shakespearean text because for whatever reason they decided
King James Version was appropriate for children to read and understand. But that's a whole separate topic.
Gee, don't piece is specific or anything. Oh, no, I'm being totally vague and broad for the sake of
anonymity and all that. But yes, continue.

(24:52):
Yeah, that's pretty much what I would say. Or even if you find an idea that you like and kind of
want to explore, you can see if I guess kind of the reverse see if the Bible has anything to
say about that or if any like Christian commentators or ministers or what have you have said anything

(25:15):
about that to see if you can make a connection that way. If I might jump in here with another question
because I think that this would be an interesting thought process for both of you because and for our
listeners as well because you guys not just see this in your media, you see it in yourselves. And so

(25:39):
how did finding faith in these things help you to identify more of who you are called to be?
Hmm, I guess my answer to your question would be exploring all of my interests,
helped me be more authentic and therefore helped me to understand my place in the grand scheme of

(26:09):
things. So I'll give an example. So back in 2011, 2012, the height of Tumblr culture. Back when
the internet or at least that corner of the internet was obsessed with Supernatural, Doctor Who
and BBC Sherlock which were all three shows that just captivated the internet for whatever reason.

(26:34):
I was writing fan fiction at the time. This is my first foray into fan fiction. But
maybe like within a year of being entrenched in fandom culture, I felt the need to give it up.
I was still very, very evangelical. I was in college. I was exploring my faith for the first time.

(27:01):
And so I had all of the influences of my evangelical upbringing with I guess my own personal
convictions whether or not they were actually biblical at the time. Kind of supporting this decision
that, oh, what I'm doing is idolatry because I have more fun engaging in fandom culture than I do

(27:24):
going to church, singing songs, listening to a sermon. And so I was like, I need to give this up
because in my mind it was idolatry. I couldn't enjoy anything more than church. And so I took a break.
from fandom for several years. I think I ended up deleting my fan fiction account as well.

(27:48):
And for the next few years I just kind of focused on what I thought a good Christian should do.
And it wasn't until very recently that I was like, you know what, forget about this. I am really
interested in fandom stuff again. Like, doctor who has had a resurgence. I think a new season of

(28:11):
BBC Sherlock drops, which isn't very, which isn't very exciting because we have two-year hiatus
between seasons. But I started getting more back into fandom culture as I started deconstructing my
faith. So I started deconstructing during the pandemic, I think, as a lot of us did when we were isolated

(28:33):
from our church communities and we were really thinking critically about our faith for the first time.
So I was exploring fandom culture again and I was like, oh my gosh, this stuff is really, really
cool. And I kind of kept it separate from my spiritual life, or at least so I thought. But it wasn't until
soon after coming to sanctuary where I met, you know, other people who were just as weird as me,

(29:01):
just as into fandom culture, just as into whatever their hyperfixations were and they leaned into it
and they were able to embrace not only their interests, but also the spirituality that they found
within those interests. And I was like, huh, I wonder what that's going to look like in my life.
And so I just kind of let it happen. And I was like, oh, surprisingly, God can teach me a lot through

(29:26):
my interests. And Nik, what was the sermon that you did where you talked about how God can use our
interest? I believe it was the one you cosplayed for. Is that correct? I think so. I do not remember
what it was called because it's one of the first ones I did. All right. Let me see. I'm going to pull

(29:47):
it up on pull up first, by the way, sanctuary has a YouTube channel where we put on all of the
sermons where we put Sunday school lessons where we put special events. Let's see.
Nik, I'm trying to find yours. It was really good. I just can't remember what the thumbnail looks like.

(30:08):
Yeah, because I had to ask you is like, hey, is it okay if I cosplay for sure?
And you were like, what? Well, and I had to think about it, but remember what my answer was,
you know, we cosplay is biblical people. True. Yes. Oh, why not? Or is reformers or I went to some

(30:31):
church ones for Christmas, horror, and they had a testimony of the fake midwife at the birth of Christ.
So I said, you know, if everybody can do all that,
yeah, and it related because the character that cosplayed us was basically an otaku is from the

(30:53):
anime ultimate otaku teacher and he basically wound up teaching a class and using like video games and
manga and all that stuff to relate to the students. Oh, I found it on YouTube. Your sermon is called
it's your calling, but on YouTube, the video is from two years ago, it's called what ultimate otaku
teacher can teach us about our divine calling. Oh, that's on the nose. Cool. I love that. We weren't

(31:18):
going to remember that. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you know, I was only half joking when I was teasing Nik
earlier in this in this episode. For me, copying them as far as writing about pop culture, they were
the ones who really introduced me to the idea that, yeah, you don't have to keep these things separate

(31:41):
and, you know, as you sort of progress in your faith, like God is going to find a way to speak to
you through those things. So there's really, really, there's no escaping your calling. There's no
escaping God, but like in a good way, not like in this really ominous like, oh, God's going to come
after you way. Yeah, it's just, it's, it's been very interesting to really embrace my fandom side

(32:08):
because I've really missed being in fandom. I've missed interacting with a whole bunch of fans. I've
missed having a blog on Tumblr and all this other stuff, but it's also helped me come to terms with
my faith in a new way that I don't think I would have discovered how I not embrace my interest. I

(32:28):
think it's allowed me to take my faith less serious. So I take, I take everything seriously, especially when
it comes to faith, I'm very serious, I'm very concerned about doing the right thing all the time to the point
where I'm trying to achieve like some moral perfectionism, which A isn't really possible. And B

(32:50):
isn't biblical. Yeah, yeah, I heard that sigh. Yeah, but it's, it's teaching me to take my, like,
certain matters of faith less seriously and more, more so, you're really going to hate this, Nik.
But more so to embrace my humanity. Tell us how you really feel.

(33:10):
Oh my God, Nik. You said two swear words. This is a family-friendly podcast.
I say, as I mentioned this, I'm gonna call Jesus to say for it early.
We're friendly for some families. 13 and up.

(33:33):
Yeah, found families. We're friendly for found families.
I mean, yeah, why not?
Anyway, let's segue into anything but this. That's an interesting way to kind of put it. So in other

(33:54):
words, you were trying to be at the time, sister, super Christian and you just gave everything up.
But Nik, is there something you'd like to share with the group?
No, it's just that was very much Chuck when I met them, but like remembering how they were

(34:16):
compared to they are now. It's just like, Oh, Hun, just you wait. I turned, I basically went feral.
I've turned feral in the five years, you've known me.
Yeah, I've turned something in the five years you've known me, so yeah.
I don't know what I've turned. Anyway, into an old person. Anyway, so,

(34:44):
okay, look, Nik, they're playing my songs at the grocery store.
That doesn't necessarily mean they're old.
Yes, it does. Anyway, I mean, they'll tell this way, call me maybe at the grocery store. Like,
that's not old. You go with that, Nick. Okay.
They played Miley Cyrus in the grocery store like her plastic hearts album. That's not old.

(35:06):
You're not old.
Anyway, what would you say to this about kind of through your fandom, which is that was the point I
was trying to make before we segue into things that Chuck, you were trying really, really hard to
like produce something, but when you embraced your fandoms, you found that God really spoke to you

(35:30):
through them and that you found another level of your faith that you weren't finding when the only
thing you wanted to do was go to church. So, Nik, how would you find basically through these different
things and through these interests that God kind of speaks to you? How do I find, they speak to me?

(35:53):
Yeah.
Loudly. And I say that because, and I feel like I've jokingly been to this frustration to both of you
at some point, but sometimes I will just want to, you know, have smooth brain, not think about anything
and just watch some anime or some YouTube to decompress after like a long day of work or a heart

(36:15):
week or something. And I'm just watching something for enjoyment. And then it's like,
oh, this would make a good blog post. And I'm like, I just, I just want to relax. Why? I wasn't looking
for this. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like divine inspiration just hits me and finds me.

(36:37):
But I think, okay, this is a whole thought I'm having as in talking. So this is news for everyone.
I think that's kind of proof that you're on the right track in a sense that if you're open to
hear from God anytime, anywhere through anything, then God can say a lot to you. And I feel like

(37:00):
the problem that we encounter sometimes is, I guess, the more conservative or fundamentalist
questions will be like, oh, you can't listen to secular music. It'll distract you from God. You can't
play violent video games. It'll give you violent thoughts or whatever. Or whatever else like, don't
listen to metal is of the devil or whatever. And there are actually a lot of spiritual insights

(37:26):
that you can have from different video games, different types of music from not just American culture,
but from other countries as well. And yeah, it's really, I think it's still confining God to a box

(37:46):
as to what avenues and what people they can use to speak from and through. And I think that's
where we get in the way of our faith formation and development sometimes.
Because if we say, oh, God can't speak through those things, and we shut that door, that might be the

(38:08):
door that God is like, timidly knocking just fine. Like, hello, I'm here. If you would just open up,
you would see me. Wow. Yeah, I didn't plan on saying any of that. Just me.
So faith, the purpose of faith formation as you were talking kind of hit me, we're supposed to be

(38:31):
forming faith. We're supposed to be finding faith in a lot of ways in our lives, like not just
at church and not just in Christian music, but we're supposed to be forming our faith in our lives.
And so we should be finding our faith formation in a lot of different ways. So when we just

(38:58):
cut all that off, we're missing God. Wow. Yeah, true. And I remembered as I was typing a book I read for
a class we took, well, I took you talk, mom, for Apostolic University, shout out to the seminary,

(39:22):
called faith formation. And the supplemental text that I chose was written by brother Lawrence,
which was like a he was a monk during the medieval period. And there's a book compiled of like some
of his letters and inspirations called the practice of the presence of God. And he kind of talks

(39:43):
about how he finds God in the every day, like even while he's doing kitchen work. And granted,
he is a little extreme, like I think at one point he talks about like, oh, you don't even have to
finish all your meals. You can just keep giving him a word. God is like, okay, but he's slow down. But
he would say like if his mind wanders to something else, then he just kind of redirects it back to God.

(40:08):
And you know, no harm, no foul. But he really took fulfillment and enjoyment in just thinking about God
no matter what he was doing. And you know, God is not a being that can just be restricted to church.
Like God's not an idol. We don't just go there, spend time with God to then leave. If we believe God is

(40:30):
everywhere, then God is everywhere, even when we're like doing laundry or something.
So do you mean to suggest that we can find God just as much in doing laundry as we can during a sermon?
Yeah, sometimes it's not more so depending on the church you're going to.
And if that's the case, can we also not experience God during anime or during

(40:57):
Pacific Rim or during fan fiction as you write some sort of story about something?
Okay, I don't write fan fiction, so I'm kind of improvising with what it is. I've read some of their
fan fiction, but I don't write it myself. So I haven't read people's fan fiction, but who's to say you

(41:21):
can't find something in fan fiction or that God can't speak to you in all these different ways?
Yeah. Yeah. And I think what all this has helped me to see is that basically it's okay to be different.
It's okay if you're not. Okay, this is not meant to be a call out or a diss or anything. This is just

(41:45):
me distinguishing myself from other people and I'm prefacing this for a reason.
It's okay if you don't want to stay in the Bible for hours and just absorb everything off the pages.
It's okay if you read your Bible and then go watch your favorite TV show and then do like a blog
series on that because you get more inspiration from the TV show than you do reading the Bible alone.

(42:11):
You mean Bible study is supposed to be an individual thing?
And it's supposed to be enjoyable? What?
No, say it ain't so. I know. It's like one, one, really.
Yes. That's what I'm suggesting. That's just like what now we're talking about different people.

(42:36):
Okay, before we came on, I have to preface this. Before we came on and started this conversation,
Chuck asked me something for their blog. Yes. And they asked me about how Pentecostalism got started
and I gave a clearer answer apparently than Wikipedia. Yes you did. And then I was accused of
hyperfixating and I said, I do not hyperfixate on this and Nik said, look, remember all this stuff from

(43:05):
memory and you are more knowledgeable about it than Wikipedia that has a bunch of people in it.
And then I went fine. Didn't you also write a religious encyclopedia recently?
Yes you did. I have to go through the editing on it and then we're going to release it next year,
but yes, I did. Congratulations. This just brings this point as well. It's like 700 pages and I did it

(43:32):
by myself and shut up Nik. But you know, you're not disturbing my argument here. The point though
that you were making and so I'm okay with validating this part of your argument is that it's fine that
I am really into it and I like doing it for hours and it's fine that Nik doesn't.

(43:54):
And there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe I want to do it and then it leads me to something else which
leads me to something else and I'm perfectly fine and engaged with that and it's perfectly fine that
Nik leaves it and goes watches some anime and then goes in the kitchen and God drops a word.
There's nothing wrong with either method. Right. I mean there's nothing wrong with either method.

(44:19):
There isn't one that's better than the other and I think that what would be wrong is if I was trying
to make Nik more like me. Yeah that wouldn't work. Well she thinks. No, I mean I just, I know myself,

(44:39):
I would get bored pretty quickly. Yeah, whatever. Like it's not that the information is not fascinating
or anything it's just my brain's not wired to focus on that for long periods of time.
It's like the first time I taught world religion we did the entire thing in a month and now if you

(45:00):
read the book that's not feasible but I forgot not everybody says it's interested in this as I am
and so now that we do it we break it up quite a bit more and we take a lot more time with it
because other people need a chance to absorb things at a different rate and it's not that I'm
better than everybody else or they're better than me. It's just different and I think our interests

(45:24):
and the place where we find God unexpectedly is very much that point. That's our differences coming out
and if you know God can have different facets and we're all in the image of God and we're all
different than it only makes sense that there has to be different ways he reaches out to us.
Now there's an angle of that we don't talk about at all. No, we don't. God being multifaceted and so

(45:51):
therefore we have different modes of learning and creation and things like that.
But we're so busy trying to put God on a box we put ourselves in boxes too
and label the boxes as correct and everything out of the box as trash.
Like the search for conformity is going way too narrow.

(46:16):
Yeah or they probably won't even call it conformity they'll try and pass it all this unity.
Yeah, unity is not conformity.
Nope it does not. Unity values diversity
because it is possible to be diverse and unified at the same time.

(46:37):
Right. Well like you know a choir doesn't sing only one part.
Right. But they're still unified and they don't all sing the same notes but they're still unified.
And sometimes not even the same words are the same lines at the same time. Like I've been

(46:59):
saying pieces in like the alto section that were completely different from what the sopranos and
sopranos were singing. Sometimes even more different than the alto ones. Sometimes we weren't even
singing words it was just notes or vowels or something like that. And then we would sing something
like maybe we get the melody and they get a harmony but we were singing the same thing just

(47:19):
at different times. So we have one God and that always confuses people. But if you really think
about it one God is enough with the diversity that we have. Yeah. True.
It's like a d20 like a 20-sided die. It's like technically it's one thing but there's 20 different

(47:47):
facets of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You need to tell everybody where that's from. Okay. Okay. So for those who
are not familiar with the world of D&D, a d20 or a 20-sided dice is so basically in the world of D&D

(48:08):
you have a bunch of different dice. But the one that you use the most often is called the d20 which
basically allows you to roll for different actions. It basically the lower the number, the less successful
you are at doing that action, the higher the number with the highest number being a 20 is the most

(48:31):
success that you can have. And so if you've ever seen a d20 or if you even go to Google and look
up a d20, this thing looks really cool. There are also lots of really cool designs on Etsy. I'll
start from you know, resin makers to 3d printers. And so you cannot see all of the sides at once. You can see

(48:54):
maybe two, three, four, five, six, seven. You can see maybe eight sides of a d20 at once. There's one
that'll face towards you. So you get the clear picture of that. And then the ones next to it are
slightly at an angle. So you sort of see it, but then you don't get the full perspective of it. So

(49:17):
your perspective of the number might be a little bit slanted. And then they continue to get slanted
until you cannot see the back of the die anymore. It's the same way with God. So we might focus individually
on one aspect of God. And we'd be able to see that aspect super duper clearly. Like maybe we

(49:37):
understand the concept of God being a loving father. But some of our other perspectives of God like
God being just and God being a scorned lover sometimes as you would read in the books of the
prophets. Like maybe we don't understand those facets because we see them at an angle. We don't see
them clearly. But depending on the person who's seeing this die, they might have a different perspective

(50:03):
than you. They might be able to see those aspects of God clearly, but not be able to see the aspects
of God that you see clearly as clearly. That was a lot of phrases in there. But basically God is
like a 20-sided die. And we're able to see some facets of it really clearly and others we cannot.

(50:26):
So we have to rely on other people's perspectives to see the full picture.
I want you to know that I just rolled a five on Google.
Not a crit fail, which is great, but not great either.
Not good. Could be better. But yes, my, so my respect of the D20 right now is five.

(50:55):
So in keeping with all of these different ideas and keeping with everything that we've kind of been
talking about through this thing, when we recognize different facets of God and that there really is
room for all of us and that God really does have something for all of us, how do we encourage people

(51:16):
to attain that, especially if they're afraid to because of their background?
Hmm.
I would say start small. If writing is your thing, maybe try writing a paragraph of something.
You don't have to publish it anywhere. You can keep it in a journal. You could even it throw away if

(51:40):
you're that uncomfortable with it. But just do something to start exploring it. If you
maybe grew up with you can't really listen to secular music or if you were like how I grew up,
nothing outside of gospel and motown, then try listening to a pop song or a K-pop song or something

(52:00):
else or even just like watching a TV show because sometimes they have theme songs that are either
in a different language depending on what you watch or just something modern pop or rock or what
have you. Yeah, don't try to dive headfirst completely because that can be overwhelming but take
things at your own pace, find what works for you and just kind of start exploring from there.

(52:26):
Yeah, I'd say piggybacking off of what Nik said.
Moderation is probably the key in whatever strategy you decide to do whether that's playing a game
from your childhood with a new perspective or I don't know maybe even watching a movie with a friend

(52:50):
that your friend's been begging you to see and you haven't been sure about. Yeah, we want to avoid
extremes if at all possible. So we don't want to jump off the deep end and be like okay I'm
completely forsaking every tradition that I've ever known and I'm going to embrace all the stuff that
I've been avoiding because you know I want to experience all this stuff and like that's not good

(53:16):
but then you also don't want to be like I want to completely refrain from anything that interests me
that isn't related to God somehow because that can also stifle you. So yeah,
yeah, I guess at going what Nik said start small and maybe explore stuff in a way that you know is safe.

(53:38):
So if you've always wanted to if you want to see a certain movie maybe don't go see it in the theater
maybe stream it all night in the comfort of home or maybe watch a show with a trusted friend
somebody who will support you who you know is going to support you through exploring all of your

(54:00):
different interests. Yeah and overall just I'm going to echo the advice that Lee Ann and Nik usually
give me and that we dish out in return is to not take life so seriously just kind of what's the
specific phrasing you use for me to call it's calm down and stuff like that. Chill? Yeah to just chill.

(54:28):
I was just trying to think there's something I've said I guess chill. Okay. There's an
expletive in there somewhere but it basically just chill. Just chill is the PG the PG version.
I love how like you were so wound up that calm down or that calm down was the only thing you could

(54:49):
think of like chill didn't even register your mind like your mind was so unchilled you couldn't even
think of chill. I have I have generalized anxiety I've never been chill the day in my life.
Okay that is fair but I like you mentioned moderation. We love models. I think that that's

(55:10):
you know I actually said this on Sunday that our ultimate goal in Bible things should be
moderation and I think that we very often both recommend and fall in extremes we go from one
extreme to the other we think that we have to give everything up or have everything and so I think

(55:34):
that a recommendation of finding a balancing act finding really what works for you finding where
you find God and not getting so caught up in one extreme or the other that we lose sight of why
we're doing it is also really really important. So we're about at the end of our episode of fandom

(56:02):
incorporated. That's basically what it's written. That would be great title for the episode and
as a final thought what would you both like to leave our listeners with?
Kind of piggybacking off what you just said mom. I would say that as a Christian we have a personal

(56:27):
relationship with God and I've said this before somewhere else on a blog or sermon or something but
basically no I've said a lot of things in a lot of different ways and lots of places it's hard to
get dragged but when you have a relationship with a specific individual it's not going to look the

(56:49):
same as someone else's relationship with that specific individual like me Chuck and Lee Ann I'll have
a relationship with each other but me and Chuck relate in a way that's me and Lee Ann don't and vice versa
and all that stuff. So what works for one dynamic might not work for another and I would say that

(57:10):
applies with God too. You don't have to look at what majority of Christians are doing today and feel
like that's your only option. If fandom culture is the way you relate to God then go ahead and embrace that
again slowly and in moderation and if you know something else that we haven't touched on

(57:31):
brings you close to God then do the same thing with that too. At the end of the day you're accountable
for what you do and you're responsible for how you cultivate your relationship with God.
Chuck? Wow, make you had a really good one.

(57:53):
This is not a competition. I guess I want to share the example that's been playing in my mind
like while we've been talking throughout this episode. In the way that I was relating to my old self
like how I was just completely you know I would say I was like a one-dimensional character when I
wasn't interested in anything or I was only interested in church. I would say that

(58:20):
we want to avoid being NPCs. For those who don't play video games an NPC is a non-playable
character, basically a background character who only exists to interact with the hero or with
the person playing the video game in some way. So their entire personality is revolving around
the one thing that they're doing like I play a lot of Skyrim so the NPCs are often farmers or

(58:50):
soldiers. The soldiers in particular the guards of each like fort basically exist to
stop the hero if they've been caught stealing something or give witty liners like I used to be an
adventure like you to take an arrow to the knee. Yeah so they don't have a personality outside of

(59:17):
whatever they're doing and they're one-dimensional as a result but we want to be the
how do I say it without without telling us to embrace individuality okay I want it should be our goal
to be the protagonist in the sense that we have motivations and interests outside of the overall story

(59:45):
so that we're able to complete side quests for instance like giving myself as an example my side quest
is being interested in fandom culture like I'm super into Pacific Rim that's one of my side quests
and that's what I pursue when I'm not embracing my calling or the main storyline of being part of
God's Kingdom. And so we want to be the protagonist in that sense not because the world revolves around

(01:00:12):
us because it certainly does not but because we are more three-dimensional characters we do not want to
make church and spiritual things our whole personality for just to I don't know make it look like

(01:00:35):
we're trying to fit in like we need to really just kind of do our own thing
I saw God. But that makes perfect sense. Well I thank you both for being on here today and I think that
in kind of an interesting way and through our interests we have really given a lot for people to

(01:01:02):
think about and hopefully to help people to find their balancing act in their lives between
what interests them and their faith and kind of seeing the two is connected instead of so isolated.
So how can everybody get in contact with each one of you if they so desire?
I'll go first again you can reach me at nikfits.com that's n-i-k-f-i-t-s.com you can send me a message on

(01:01:35):
there or if you want to hit me up on my twitter that's nikfits2 that's nikfits with the number 2
after it I'm also on tick-tock at nikfits411 nikfits with the numbers 411 after it and yeah basically
just anywhere just about so okay like I mentioned you can get in touch with me Charlie if you want to send

(01:02:04):
me a message I recommend going to my tumbler that would be at beloved-not-broken.tumblr.com
I have a inbox on there where you can send me a message anonymously or not and I don't think you
have to be a tumblr user to do so don't take my word for it because I've had tumbler for five ever

(01:02:30):
you can also follow me on tick-tock I'm at beloved.not.broken and for all the other
things I just recommend checking out my website there's a lot of resources on here about queer
theology but more specifically the nerdy commentaries I was mentioning my website is beloved-not-broken.com

(01:02:55):
very good well I thank both of you for being on here and for sharing about the things that you love
and that interest you will definitely have you back again but you already know that so you know
we don't even have to go over that and I thank all of you for listening and if you would like a
resource that can help you a little bit with different interests of your spiritual life I recommend

(01:03:18):
my book Fruit of the Vine Study and Commentary on the Fruit of the Spirit that's Fruit of the Vine
study and Commentary on the Fruit of the Spirit look me up Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino on Amazon and
wherever books are sold and all my titles will come up there's 35 and total so there's definitely
something for everyone and as you can gather from this episode we're going to actually be adding to
them soon so go out there get something that you like share it with someone there is both paperback

(01:03:45):
and ebook available and there will be hardcover next year so be sure to stay tuned once again
look me up Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino and see what comes up also check out my patheos column at patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire
that's patheos.com/blogs forward/leadershiponfire for a variety of different topics

(01:04:06):
that are of interest to leaders as well as people who are interested in things that relate to leadership
so definitely check out my blog there at leadershiponfire also look me up @kingdompowernnow
across social media I would love to have a conversation with you we would love to see what is on your
mind as well as to hear feedback and have that conversation so look me up across facebook, instagram,

(01:04:31):
twitter, tiktok and beyond @kingdompowernow also if you're interested in learning more about
the world of counterculture Christianity feel free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org that's
kingdompowernow.org and if you are interested in as was mentioned today Apostolic University Seminary
which is completely affordable can be done from home and you actually will use everything that you

(01:04:54):
learn check out apostolicuniversity.org that's apostolicuniversity.org and if you're
in the charlotte north carolina area and we haven't scared you too much and you are definitely interested
to find your found family because as we know from Lilo and Stitch that family means no one gets
left behind feel free to check out sanctuary international fellowship tabernacle better known as sanctuary

(01:05:17):
because the full name is long at welcomeinthisplace.org that's welcomeinthisplace.org
and if you have any questions that are not answered on the website feel free to reach out we will be
happy to get back to you and this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing that our
interests are God given they are part of our makeup as people so definitely dive into your interests

(01:05:41):
so that you can find more of God waiting there for you until next time be blessed
thank you for joining us on Kingdom Now i pray it proves to be a blessing in your life
to learn more about this work ask a question submit feedback or a topic suggestion advertise on air

(01:06:07):
or donate to this work visit my website which contains essential information and links for other
points of contact around the web at kingdompowernow.org also if you are in our area and would like to
visit sanctuary international fellowship tabernacle-SIFT visit welcomeinthisplace.org
until next time this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you that the kingdom of God is within you

(01:06:32):
and that means the kingdom is now
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