My Body, My Choice Rewind

Abortion remains a controversial issue, both in the United States and around the world. Women who undergo abortion as a medical procedure are often stigmatized as young, irresponsible, uncaring, and among extremists, "murderers." What is it like to face a situation where abortion is necessary, and a woman is forced to make that decision to choose between life and death - even her own? Join Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino and guest Julie Harvey for this special Rewind episode, first aired in Season 4, Episode 1. Julie came on Kingdom Now by request to share her stories involving medically necessary abortion to set the record straight about the experience and the reasons why abortion serves as a life-saving procedure for millions of women worldwide who are neither rare, nor an exception to the rule. (Intro and Conclusion Track "Fire ball" by Yvgeniy Sorokin, https://pixabay.com/users/eugenemyers-40510887/. TRANSform 2025 ad "Gospel Worship Church Prayer Music" by Iergen Poltavsky from Pixabay, https://pixabay.com/users/hitslab-47305729/.) 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Are you ready to join in the fun? Join us in the Charlotte, North Carolina area

(00:07):
November 1 through 2nd for Transform 2025. God calls me friend. We are excited to
share this power packed fellowship filled weekend with all of you. On Saturday for
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Charlotte complete with prizes and lunch. On Sunday you can look forward to our

(00:29):
anniversary service in Gastonia featuring tag team preaching from ministers
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Marino. Did I forget to mention on Sunday we will also celebrate the
ordination of minister Nik Lewis to the office of Pastor. This is one weekend
you don't want to miss as we explore the virtues of friendship both with God

(00:53):
and one another invite you to come for fun, faith and fellowship.
Registration is free but required by October 27th want to learn more?
Visit welcomeinthisplace.org. I look forward to seeing you there.
Welcome to Kingdom Now the podcast featuring faith with an edge as we recognize

(01:21):
the Kingdom of God within you. I am your host Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, overseer,
author, podcaster, blogger, professor and theologian and founder of SAFE ministries
and all the works that go along with it. I am excited to share this program with you
as we explore the ins and outs of counter culture Christianity present as you live

(01:44):
out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life. Want to learn more? Visit
kingdompowernow.org. And now our program which features a variety of formats here just
for you. Interviews on a variety of relevant topics teaching and preaching taught
everywhere from our ministry studios to sanctuary and beyond and powerful insights

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here for today as we turn the world upside down everywhere we go.
Well good morning good afternoon good evening happy whatever time of day is wherever
you are and to our listeners in France and in all of our French speaking countries

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including Canada and around the world we say bonjour. We hope that whatever time of
day is when you are listening that you are having a good one and I welcome you to this
Kingdom now podcast and I am your host, Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire serving as
the voice of counter culture Christianity where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of counter culture Christianity feel free to visit my

(02:51):
website at www.kingdompowernow.org. The topic of abortion continues to be controversial in the
United States and most especially in the church. People don't seem to agree eye to eye on it
and they don't really seem to understand a lot of the dynamics of it and often what goes into
abortion for those women who have it as a result my guest for episode one of season four was

(03:19):
Julie Harvey from Adelaide Australia a frequent guest who when she found out what was
going on in the United States came to me personally and said she wanted to do this
episode to talk about her experience with abortion and with the way that people often view
what happened to her in her life and the way that she had to handle it.

(03:40):
So we present for this first rewind episode my body my choice from season four
episode one.
As we are recording this because we do record ahead most recently Roe v Wade was overturned in the United States Supreme

(04:02):
Court launching a whole lot of questions as to what do we do next and where do we go from here.
But there are an awful lot of stories that we don't hear about abortion and we don't hear about
these particular issues because people are often afraid to talk about them.
They are afraid that people will judge them or will look down on them without considering that it's not really their decision.

(04:29):
So my guest today actually came and told me that she wanted to talk about her story and you will probably recognize her as a
returning guest we have Julie Harvey back on from Adelaide Australia and before we get into our topic today Julie introduce yourself to everybody.
I'm Julie.

(04:50):
I'll be the best cleaner in the whole world.
Then you need to come over here.
Yeah, I'm just yeah.
So that's where I am at the moment. I am yeah, I'm not going to I'm trying not to use the word just see I went to say it again.

(05:11):
Like I did last time. I'm just a mother. I'm just a cleaner.
Because you're not just.
Well, I hope I'm an encourager because that's sort of maybe maybe I don't always encourage people to do the right thing.
Yeah, like remember back in the day when we were so.

(05:35):
Pious and upstanding and now we're just too total heated when we were when we were on.
Yes, and like you said on one of the episodes we did if we had too bad thoughts in a row we were convicted for the rest of the day.
And now we're like on there and we're like.

(05:57):
You know, I hate so and so okay.
We've long to be us.
Since Tommy Shelby came into my life, I've just totally changed.
Tell everybody who Tommy Shelby is.
I will Tommy Shelby is from the Peeky Blinders cast.

(06:18):
Anybody hasn't ever heard of that show.
Yes, it's one of the best shows ever produced in the United Kingdom.
So.
He's my latest boyfriend.
Yes, he took over for the garden.
Was Lucifer.

(06:39):
Oh yes, he's taken over from Tommy.
Okay, he's been replaced.
And you have a block in the devil can be replaced.
Oh, you can have the end of this one out.
Oh, no, I don't know.
That was funny.
I might leave that in.
Okay, so you have a book.

(07:01):
Yes, I have a book named Big Valley that's been out for quite some time.
Yeah, I sort of I have a few things that I need to sort of look into as far as that book is concerned soon.
But the book is still available.
I'm pretty sure it is in an ebook on Amazon.
Is that correct?
Yes, because I lose track of all this stuff.

(07:23):
My brain is just like completely the the moment.
Well, it's like, what time is it there?
5.30 am.
Yeah, right.
Okay, yeah, all right.
Yeah, forget that.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, but yeah, you're bringing us there.
And we will also kind of drop on everyone that we have a cooperative blog that we do.

(07:45):
We'll just start us.
Yep.
Yeah.
And it is on medium.
I mean, by the time itself, we'll have more stuff.
By the time this episode airs, we'll have more stuff on it, but it's becoming us.
Blog and it is on medium.com.
Yep.
Yes, it should be interesting where we go with it.

(08:06):
We're just sort of at the moment.
We're sort of finding our feet with a few other things, but we will be on there more regularly.
Hopefully very soon.
Yeah.
We are working on it.
We're working on it.
Yeah.
Well, around us doing all our other things, too.
Yeah.
So we are here.

(08:28):
And obviously it's a little bit more serious of a realization for where we're at.
I mean, I remember when this was even first spoken of as being a possibility, you could not believe it.
And you are not American.
And you were totally and completely flabbergasted at the attitudes and the realizations that are going on in our country at this time.

(08:57):
For our listeners, before we get a whole bunch of letters that, you know, I don't really care about, I'm not going to read them, so whatever.
I actually have miscarried. I have never had an abortion.
And I miscarried definitely once I suspect I actually did miscarry again.
So I believe I miscarried twice.

(09:20):
And to make my long story really, really short, the overwhelming realization of the thing about it that was kind of difficult for me.
And I remember the challenge at the time because this was at a time like when you and I, for example, were much more traditional in our views.
And we were in much more traditional mindsets and churches that the situation I was in when I got pregnant before anybody wants to talk about irresponsibility, I used contraception both times.

(09:56):
I most likely had I not miscarried would have had abortion because the facts were at the time that it just was not a feasible situation.
And quite frankly, it would have been my decision and that's, you know, we could say that's the beginning and the ending of it, but it certainly was not a thought or a reality or a situation that I took lightly.

(10:23):
And having an abortion is not a situation that women ever enter into lightly.
And when we are confronted with it, it does provoke a lot of response within us.
But I know that when we were talking about this and you took note that this was going on in this country, you really wanted to tell your story.

(10:47):
And so I'm going to turn it over and open it up to you for you to do that before we talk about some of this stuff more.
Yep.
Well, I, and even, I suppose even the other day I was commenting on a friend's post as well about it and it made me sort of realize and I didn't even had an even considered that this, that my first pregnancy was also,

(11:16):
would have been a situation where at the moment in the United States might be something questionable because both were, I suppose what would you call miscarriage?
Abortion really in a sense they can be sort of synonymous the same thing really because you're correct.
Medically, technically they are. Yeah, because the first pregnancy I had was married both times so that it's not like any of this was, you know, I'm not like a 16 year old girl that's fallen.

(11:52):
I'm not dissing that because obviously they've got their own stories too which perhaps would be more, would provoke probably more anger in some of these
some evangelical Christians and some of these issues that it would be more controversial but my case is more of, you couldn't say normal but it's within what a Christian, you know, I would expect like it's not something that's overly controversial.

(12:25):
I was married at the time and for starters I had been battling infertility as well so my husband and I were in our mid 30s and everyone around, like everyone my age had already had their kids, like most of my friends had already had their kids.

(12:46):
You know, or they were like my husband's sister was pregnant at the time so that was in 2004 and I hadn't even considered this first pregnancy because I lost the baby.
It wasn't like, you know, it wasn't, well it was life threatening but see this is what I didn't really understand until the other day when I really thought about it because the pregnancy was like I fell pregnant and after all these years of trying or wanting to be a mother and just being infertile, battling infertility and all the rest of it, you know, like for well over 10 years

(13:30):
you know, since the 90s we'd wanted to have kids it didn't happen. I mean, you know, there were other things that played too I was working and so we didn't overly try in the early 90s but in the late 90s, early 2000s we really were getting older, you know, in our mid 30s and we wanted to start a family and like nothing had been happening and it was really discouraging for me because I wanted to be a mother.

(13:59):
I wanted to be a mother, I wanted a baby, it wasn't like I didn't want one or anything like that, I did want one so then in 2004, earlier on in the year I started seeing a doctor that just told me like I was put on a drug that they usually give people for diabetes and like and help also stimulate like the ovary because like I've got PCOS and so I don't always have a period

(14:26):
and I won't go right into that medical condition at the moment just for time, so really but I can look it up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was to say in 2004, like I said, I felt pregnant and I was overjoyed, I was like over the moon, like it didn't losing a baby, having a miscarid, it didn't even enter my brain.

(14:53):
Right, I thought this was my gift from God, I'm finally pregnant.
Well, I went along with the morning sickness, I went along, you know, I was about, I went for my first ultrasound and it was, say well that I actually was pregnant, it was seven weeks, so it was very early in the piece, you know, just to make sure the heartbeat was there and everything but, and so everything was there and everything was normal

(15:20):
and I went along and I was having the morning sickness and I still felt pregnant, I was still gaining weight and so I was, you know, the normal things I guess you'd go through with a pregnancy.
So just before Christmas I went for my three month ultrasound and when I went for this ultrasound, the woman was looking and looking and she said to me, "Sure, your pregnant."

(15:49):
And I was like, "What?" "Excuse me?" and she said, "Well, there doesn't seem to be anything there."
And I can see the, you know, she could see like the sack but she couldn't see anything else, so she said, "hang on a minute," she said, so they got me out of the room, like I didn't really know what was going on.

(16:11):
Hold on a minute, she sort of, not shuffled me out of this room and like placed me in this other room in the delivery, no less, they put me in with, you know, in this little room where the light, it was must have been the labour ward, I can't quite remember because the hospital was being worked on and so everything was being moved around at that stage.

(16:34):
And so some nurse came running and I'm sitting there waiting thinking, "Have I even got a baby?" And so it started to dawn on me, what was happening?
And like, I think I've lost the baby and I recalled like a couple of nights before, that's it, it didn't even really click but I'd had a bit of discharge, like, run down my leg, a bit of, I don't know.

(17:02):
And it didn't click to me, I just thought, "Oh, well maybe it's normal, I didn't know, I'd never been pregnant."
I didn't, all of my friends had already had their babies, the only one that was pregnant was the woman across the road who had 10 kids, I'm not joking, she literally had 10 kids.
Yeah, and so she was pregnant but she was getting close as she only had another couple of months to go and so, and because she had so many kids already, I didn't feel like I could really talk to her because like, you know, I've struggled with infertility.

(17:31):
She's got 10 kids, do you know what I mean? So I didn't feel like I could confide in her about pregnancy really. I mean she talked to me about it but not, not personal things, like I wouldn't go running over there saying, "Oh, I've had this happen to me."
I felt a little bit shocked, but I sort of shrugged it off, so it started to dawn on me and then I had someone coming in, "Oh, so and so it's just given birth and so then I started to feel terrible."

(17:56):
So they'd shoved me in this room, you know, told me that I've basically told me that I've got no baby, you know, "What am I really pregnant?"
No, it was stuff, put me in the maternity ward and let me sit there. So I was going through all of that at the time, but, so then just before Christmas, I'm trying to jump forward a little bit because this is the first pregnancy.

(18:20):
Just for Christmas, I had to have, what are they called? Is it called a D&C? Is that what it's called? Yes, yes.
So because my body was not expelling it, it wasn't coming out, it wasn't going anywhere, there was nothing coming out.
Right, besides that little bit that a couple of days beforehand, like, and they told me, "No, they said it probably won't."

(18:42):
What you've had, this is, and this was the technical term, is a misdibortion, that's what they call it. So in other words, your body is not going to get rid of it, we have to do it for you.
And so when I was telling my friend this the other day when we were talking about this issue, and I was mainly thinking about my second pregnancy, which happened in 2009, so that was what, how many years later, four years later?

(19:11):
Five years later, I had another pregnancy, and so this time, I guess I didn't get my hopes up because I thought, "Well, anything can happen."
And so when I went for this ultrasound, it was like, unfortunately, your baby. Now it wasn't like a normal eptopic pregnancy, it wasn't in the tube.
It was in the birth canal, I forget what they call it now, I'm not up with the technical terms, but you know the narrow, do you have any idea what they call it?

(19:43):
Do you mean the cervix?
The cervix, that's it, that's the word, so it was a cervical eptopic, which is rare, it's very rare.
The baby was sitting low in the birth canal, like, yeah, and so they said to me, your pregnancy is not viable, it's not going to go anywhere, it could kill you, and the baby won't survive anyway.

(20:14):
When I had, they did another ultrasound, like, just before they took me into surgery, and it might be, it was probably a bit confronting, but to be perfectly honest with you, I had sort of shielded myself, because when I lost that first baby five years before, I was in so much emotional agony over that.

(20:42):
I guess maybe when the second baby, it was like a negative result as well.
I sort of had shielded myself from the emotions of losing this next baby in a way, and I sort of, I felt like I was going through it, and it was in a bit of a dream world, you know, it wasn't, it was surreal, like, it sort of wasn't really happening.

(21:06):
But it wasn't really happening, you know, and I saw, when they showed me the ultrasound, like, I could see, the baby was moving around, the baby was healthy.
Now, this could be quite upsetting for some people to hear, this baby was healthy, and I can even go so far as to say, it was lit up, it had, like, it was full of light, it was like, you know, how they say people, you know, like, we're light beings, I mean, even people,

(21:35):
in the occult, we'll say, we've got a light body, we've got, you know, I mean, that's just like a whole lot of subject, but that's what I noticed about it.
But I couldn't, this baby was not going to live, this, I wasn't going to live, this baby wasn't going to live, so straight away it was like, the doctors and the nurses were like, getting me ready for the surgery mentally and every other way they could.

(22:02):
I mean, what could they do? But technically speaking, I had to have an abortion, and it was a life threatening thing, but like I said, I didn't really see, but the first one was also a life threatening situation, even though it wasn't even thought about, like, there was no remains with the first one.

(22:25):
It was just a sac, there was no baby, the baby had already passed away. You know, that thing running down my leg was obviously the baby, even though I didn't know it.
You know what I mean? And it was just like, this clear liquid, just, and that was it, gone. And so this next one I had to have, they sort of give you light, it's a bit like, the way they explained it to me was it's a little bit like,

(22:54):
cancer treatment, it's a little bit like radiation, because after you've had this procedure, you have to be in a separate, you can't be in a hospital bed with other people, you have to be in your own room.
They have to wear a, I don't know if it was a hazmat suit or some type of apparatus to even clean my toilet. You know, when I was in the hospital for that overnight stay, because they told me that after they give me this, it's like radiation, it's like, you know, it's poisonous sort of thing.

(23:34):
And that's why I had to be in a room myself and they had to even clean my toilet with, you know.
So, yeah, so all these years later, you know, with all this stuff going on over there and I know that in Australia, I don't think, I don't think it will happen here, but it's concerning because I have lots of friends over there.

(23:56):
You know, I always, because since we've been friends, Lee Ann, like, I feel like I'm global, I don't feel like I'm, I mean, I'm Australian, yeah, but I get, it's really, it's hard to explain this.
But I feel like I'm a global person, if that makes sense.
I got, you know, world issues, interest me, the United States and the United Kingdom and the way, I mean, more the West, so only because we don't, we're not allowed in, we want to come to China and Russia.

(24:29):
I mean, they've got their own little stuff.
But what I'm saying is it concerns me because it writes being taken away that shouldn't be.
Because it's not just about the teenage unwanted pregnancy. It's about life-saving procedures.
Because without either of those, see, when I was telling my friend, I basically had to stop in the middle of what I was saying and thinking.

(24:58):
No, hang on a minute, because I said, well, I wouldn't be alive today because my second child, I had to have, because of the cervical pregnancy.
Then I thought, no, no, no, hang on a minute, I have to, I wouldn't be alive. It would have been even further down the track, back from that.
It would have been 2004, because I wouldn't have been able to have that procedure either.

(25:21):
In some cases, maybe not, you know, with all of this stuff in America, obviously.
It's all up in the air, in a lot of places, but you've got to think of these things.
And a lot of these Christians and people that believe, they don't see that.
They see the black and the white, they see the, oh, just close your legs and just stop sleeping around and stop doing, well, what about people in my situation?

(25:50):
And I said to somebody, so when I was on a forum the other day, I said that.
Some woman said she made a comment, a really terrible comment, and even some people didn't agree with her in that forum.
But she said, well, I would, I would be ashamed of myself if I was going to murder my baby.

(26:11):
And I thought, oh my God, and I said, so I had an eptomic, eptopic pregnancy and I had to have an abortion.
Am I a murderer or not?
And I put two question marks there.
And someone else come back and said, well, no, that's life threatening because so you're not a murderer.

(26:32):
And I said, hang on a minute, I said, I saw that baby moving, I saw that baby.
Do you know what I mean? I saw it.
And I explained my situation.
So technically, maybe I am, but I was sort of trying to push them the other way.
You know, because the Christian was saying, but no, no, no, no, hang on a minute, you're doing it for this reason.

(26:56):
So that's okay, but who says it's okay?
And that's what we're saying. Where do you draw this line? Where do you draw it?
You can't, I mean, this is a difficult thing to discuss, really, isn't it?
Because you can't say to one person, it's okay and another person is not.

(27:18):
If that makes sense, because you make it, who are you to make that decision?
And a guy even come on there and said it was a guy, but he was, you know, he was pretty open-minded and he said, well, what about the spontaneous abortions that happen?
What about the miscarriages that happen?
Right.

(27:39):
You can blame God. Where is your, are you blaming God for that?
Are you taking that before God and getting angry with Him because a spontaneous abortion is an abortion, but your body is deciding it, there's something wrong with the boat.
Do you know what I mean? It's still technically, do you know what I'm, well, you obviously know what I'm trying to say, but it was just trying to provoke them.

(28:04):
Am I a murderer or not?
Because technically speaking under these laws, yes, I am. Right. Okay. So I am. I'm a murderer and I was basically trying to say, come on, say it, but you know, because it doesn't matter, it doesn't seem to matter to these, some of these people that are making these decisions, what predicament you're in or not, it doesn't matter.

(28:29):
It doesn't matter, they're not taking your personal problems or whatever into their consideration.
The problem is they're making these blanket laws saying zero tolerance policy, some of them have said we're not making exceptions and that's the problem.

(28:51):
Right.
And even with the exceptions, okay, I'm going to throw this at her because you know I threw it out there on Facebook. Oh, yeah.
You know, you know what I mean? You are not. Who decides what the exceptions are? Who is the grand arbitrator to decide, okay, you were an exception.
And if you got the wrong doctor, you would not have been an exception. Now I'm just being honest from having been a lobbyist for this, having worked for Planned Parenthood earlier in time, having dealt with people who are very, very strongly opinion about this stuff.

(29:31):
That there are people who would have told you that you were not the exception. And there were people who would have told you X, Y, and Z, not considering first of all.
And one of the reasons why when you came and wanted to do this, I said, let's go on and do it. First of all, you really proved that you weren't just dawdling around until the six months to decide you didn't want your child.

(29:55):
You're all couldn't. Right. It wasn't, oh yeah, I'm just going to, you know, wait and wait and not make my own decision and just do this. You know, you were not in a situation like that.
You wanted to do this. You wanted to have children. You were even trying. And so then you're confronted with this situation. That's hard enough.

(30:19):
It's hard enough. It's still a loss in your life. It's still something that I really don't think anybody understands if they haven't been through it.
That's right. And they're, we're debating now whether or not you're an exception. How dare you. Exactly.

(30:40):
Now we're deciding whether or not what you did was okay. Now first of all, we all weren't there and it's none of our business. But what about the, I'm really sorry you went through that.
What about the, can I do you want to talk about it or can I listen to you? What about being there for somebody who had an experience, not considering how traumatic it was to be in the situation that you were in?

(31:09):
Yeah. And now we're going to decide. Now we're going to put you through the courts, maybe, to see if you mean what, you know what I mean. I can't wait for this surgery. I'm going to die.
Oh, that's too bad. Then we'll, you know, we'll take it through the courts and let, and let some lawyer decide and five months later, oh, sorry, she's dead. Oh, well too bad. We'll forget about that then. Wait, wait.

(31:30):
Because that's how quickly these decisions need to be made.
Exactly. You can't wait. You can't wait. Or you know, like people say, well, rape is a special case. Well, who decides she's been raped? Do we have to wait for the court? Do we have to put her through a rape kit, which is traumatic all by itself?
Do we have to wait for a prosecution and a conviction that she was raped? And you know, by that point in time she's either killed herself or she's had the baby and now having to live with that.

(32:00):
I mean, why is it that we have such a hard time with the concept of a decision? And accepting the fact that this has nothing to do with anybody else.
If you don't want to have an abortion or you're not faced with these circumstances, then you're lucky.
The thing that they don't understand is that outlawing, like making it illegal is not going to stop it.

(32:26):
More women are going to end up dead. That's all it's going to do. It's going to and the baby won't survive because the mother won't survive because the mother will either find a way somehow of doing it, which may destroy her internally herself if she tries to do it herself.
Because let's face that a guy on my other account made that comment. So we're back to coat hangers now, are we?

(32:51):
Because that's where it will go. Do you know what I mean? How dare these people? I mean, I know I can understand.
I've already lost. I mean, I can tell. I've made a few comments and I know that Facebook has a little annoying habit of doing this these days where if you comment on a public page,

(33:17):
Facebook has a habit of showing people now what you're commenting on. I don't know whether you've ever noticed that.
Leanne, have you ever noticed that sometimes you will see like posts maybe not from me, but someone else that if they've posted on a public page like for the news or something?
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about. It took me a minute, but yeah, like, so let's say they comment on some radio shows meme.

(33:44):
And then it'll show that they commented on it. Yes, I have seen that.
Yes. So Facebook's doing that now and I know that so I've made it because when I overheard this, I thought, you know what, I'm not holding back.
If I comment on someone's page and someone in my news feed Caesar, I don't care.
And so I did. And I thought, and I could feel it, you know, a couple of days later, even, I could feel it from, you know, my Facebook page.

(34:11):
I was thinking, a couple of my Christian friends are not happy with me. And I know it. But you know what, I'm over caring about it.
I mean, it's fine. You don't have to have the same opinion as me, but I'm entitled to mine. I've been through this.
You know, like I said to one of my friends, I am that woman because I've been there. If I didn't have, well, I would have been dead in 2004.

(34:39):
So, you know, I wouldn't even be here now. Let if we want to be honest because what was in my guterous would have turned septic and it would have killed them.
And these are the sorts of things that before our medical advances, these are the things that would have happened anyway, like a hundred years ago, I wouldn't have survived anyway.

(35:04):
Because they didn't have the medical that they have now. But now we are trying to go in your country. We are trying to go back to the dark ages, you know.
Pretty much.
You know what I've been thinking about it. Somehow I get the feeling that it's about saving money. It's not really about people.

(35:27):
It's not really about Christians and their values and things like that as far as these politicians are concerned, it's a way of saving money.
It's always got to do with money because it's got to do with them, you know, putting research into all of this stuff, putting people's lives and let...

(35:50):
So let's study this and let's see how we can stop it from happening and let's see how we can help these people. So they need funding for it.
So instead of funding this will put the money somewhere. So they're so cold that I think that somewhere down the line buried underneath it all, somewhere it...

(36:11):
Money's got to be one of the main issues. Most of it is to do with money, you know.
How can we sell money here? Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That's a good point. I mean because you would think unwanted children and unwanted pregnancies, not to mention things like miscarriages and...

(36:39):
You know, things of that nature are a lot more expensive than an abortion.
They cost... it costs a lot more money to take care of a kid for 18 years.
But they don't care about that.
But they don't care. Right. And it's reminded me of a meme that I saw some time ago that I'm funding, it's on my phone.
And I think that the point that the man made is very poignant.

(37:05):
I guess the one who said this is Dave Barnhart. And it says, "The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you. They are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated addicted or the chronically poor. They don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct."

(37:28):
Unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy. Unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare.
Unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike.
They allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships. And when they are born, you can forget about them because they cease to be unborn.

(37:53):
You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege. Without reimagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone.
They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners, immigrants, the sick, the poor, widows, orphans, all the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible, they all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

(38:23):
Yep, they do. That's the thing, isn't it? And that's what gets under my skin, I think, more than anything.
Is that these evil men in power are using it as an excuse to do what they want to do. It's like they've got ulterior motives all the time. Do you know what I'm saying?

(38:49):
Yeah, and I think about my grandmother, and I think about my grandmother because she was obviously from before Roe v. Wade.
And not to mention that they were Catholic and so that was a whole other addition. And my grandmother self-aborted.

(39:10):
She threw herself down the stairs. Or they would say, you know, if you did something, maybe you took an herbal concoction or maybe your bath was too hot, it was considered an accident.
And she almost died. She almost died at one point after one particular incident where she self-aborted.

(39:31):
She almost died and they started using contraception. But I think about the fact, like you said, it's not going to stop anybody from doing anything.
It's just going to make it harder and it's going to mean that people die.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't help thinking there's more to it as well. There's always more to it. And it doesn't always come out until later.

(40:00):
But there's reasons they bring these laws in and a lot of it's not to do anything to do with what it is.
But they do you know what I'm saying? All these ulterior motives all the time. I get on my nerves because they don't care who they hurt.
To get what they want, you know. It's just the whole thing sort of stinks, you know.

(40:28):
I think to myself, what more can I really say?
I just without being like, I've got a child control what I'm saying, you know, on air sort of thing on this program because I could let fly.

(40:50):
Yes, because we have all the conversations where it does fly.
Yes, that's right.
But yeah, I mean, it's like, I think about Nietzsche who in one of his books, I don't remember which one it was, but he said these improvers of men who are these men and who made them improvers.

(41:11):
That's right, you know.
And that's exactly how I feel about this. I mean, you know, nobody has asked you to impose what you feel will improve us as a society on us.
And I don't know if you understand how things even work in the United States in terms of our government, but like the Supreme Court, those are not elected positions.

(41:36):
They are appointed. So ain't nobody asked to put them there. They were not our decision. They were more or less, I guess we could say that they are voted on by elected officials.
And so somebody would argue that point, but still who they want in there is who gets in there. I mean, we've learned that the hard way in this country over the past few years.

(41:57):
Yeah, but these are not even people that we have any direct connection to or any real interest in or any real relationship with.
And they are not obligated by law to represent what the American people might want.
I remember seeing a stat, not all that long ago and it said something like 68% of the United States wants to keep Roe v Wade as an option and keep it as a legal safe thing.

(42:29):
And that fact alone means that the majority of this country wanted to just leave alone.
Well, that's wrong.
Not these people that don't care and here we are. Yeah, but they're doing it in the name of God. I just...
Oh, that's a whole mess, isn't it? Wait and a... Wait and do it.

(42:52):
But in our country here is what you were saying about these elected officials. It's sort of the same, the party gets into power, but they're the ones that decide who's going to lead that party.
So, so we didn't actually... we've got a new Prime Minister since when was it? May? I think it was Maxi. I don't even remember when he got elected.

(43:17):
Well, you integrated Jimmy. You've had a lot of them over the past several years.
That's what I mean. I can't keep up any... I'm blaming you.
You know, they're revolving door of Prime Minister, so...
But yeah, we've had an election and we've also got a new state Premier as well, so we've had a complete change of government at the state level and at the federal level.

(43:40):
And they don't... the people don't actually like in America, I think you elect your president, don't you?
Sort of. There's this thing called the Electoral College. And it's actually the Electoral College that elects the president.
And so people stupidly all line up to go to the polls. And they do so, and ideally the college representatives, which are somehow selected by parties, so there's bipartisan ship in that as well, are supposed to represent certain interests, but they often don't... they vote however they want to vote.

(44:19):
So, there's a lot of money in the party work and in partisanship. So these individuals who do this vote however they want. They're not necessarily voting how the people want and what they sometimes happens is you will have a popular vote.

(44:43):
That is not the person that winds up being the one the Electoral College votes for and the Electoral College is the one who decides. And so, like for example Bill Clinton was one of those instances he was an Electoral vote, not popular. Hillary Clinton was popular and not electoral and solved, there you have it.
But it's sort of like that here like with our prime minister that the party elects the leader. You know, we don't put... like that we have to decide whether we want liberal or labor.

(45:16):
Well, really, I mean, everyone gets angry about that fact. Why can't we have someone else get rid of labor and liberal will you sort of set up that way, isn't it?
Yeah. And because I was trying to tell this young guy that I know at this school where I were. He said to me, why can't we just... this was just before the election, the state election actually, because it's sort of the same.

(45:40):
Why can't we just get rid of liberal and labor? We need to just elect an independent and I just set up, you know, because I'm in my 50s and I'm like, I just went through, I just sort of went, sorry, it's not going to happen.
Do you know what I mean? We're stuck with either, we don't have a choice. I mean, I didn't want to sound cynical, but I probably came across that way because young people, I mean, God bless them.

(46:06):
We need more people to deal with, have hope, I suppose, but the system's broken.
I love that I've said that. The system's broken and because we don't really have a choice because in the end, it's only going to be liberal labor that one of them that get in, it's not going to be an independent, it's not going to be anybody from any of the other parties that get in.

(46:35):
They will swing their vote like the other, the smaller, like the independence and the other smaller minority parties and things like that. We'll swing their votes towards whoever's more popular and they have certain agreements before they go into an election.
Like Labor and the Greens party are sort of like besties and so if the Labor party winning then the Greens votes will all go to Labor and some of Labor's votes will also go to the Greens, so they work together to get to power, you know.

(47:12):
I mean, I'm not an expert at politics by any means, but after sort of following it like even a little bit for the last 30 years, I've sort of seen a few patterns and I think, you know what?
And you don't want to burst a young man's bubble, but I don't have no problem doing it.

(47:37):
But I sort of just said, no, mate, this is just, it's not going to happen. We're not going to get anyone other than liberal labor, you know.
And so, yeah, politics is a nasty business like.
Although, you know, I've got, I know like in one of my groups and on Facebook, there's this young counsellor is on the local politician, you know.

(48:09):
So before they get right up there and it gets, their heads get out of control, you know what I mean, they get too big for their own boots.
They sort of, he sort of down to earth and, you know what I mean, but even to a degree, I think prime minister that we've got now has sort of come from a hard background like he wasn't, didn't have a silver spoon in his mouth like.

(48:32):
They've shown pictures of him from when he was young and he was 18 and he still didn't know what he wanted to do. And you know, he's in this picture with his mom and he just looks really ordinary like he didn't come from, like he was an Aussie Batler basically.
He didn't, but see, a lot of the, of the Labor Party were, that's how they started, you know. They were for the common, but these days the Labor Party are just like, they've gone away from their traditional values too much.

(49:01):
You know what I mean, they've moved right away from that. And yeah, I mean, he's got a bit, he'll have to be careful or he'll be getting booted out.
Oh, and doesn't agree. Do you know what I mean? The faceless men or whatever they call them.
Yes. So, yeah, but that's politics, you know, but that's sort of where, where this story, where this podcast comes, it's terrible to have to say that really, isn't it?

(49:33):
To put my personal life and politicians in the same sentence, but that's exactly what's happening in your country.
And the mind is, and I had someone that long ago who tried to challenge me and you know, we all know that's a bad idea.

(49:57):
And to be honest, the, passing the undoing of Roe v. Wade is very, very personal to me because obviously as a lobbyist, I did all this stuff for years and I can't believe we're here.
And about 20 years ago, I had a dream and it was overturned and I can still remember the dream.

(50:19):
I was sitting at the table with two other people and we were sitting around a radio and we heard on the radio that they overturned Roe v. Wade and the person sitting in the room, one of them who was closest to the radio turned it off and said to me, now what?

(50:40):
And I remember that for all these years because I feel like that's exactly what's happened here is it's like literally one day it was here again and it was literally like they just undid it and now we all sat there and said now what?
And in keeping with that as a woman who is over 40 and never had a successful pregnancy and is pretty much getting out of that point in my life of childbearing years, but the reality is that I suppose there's always a chance.

(51:20):
Even though I pretty much have been told that because of the miscarriages and because of the menopausal transition my fertility is like single digit probably somewhere around 2 or 3%.
There's always a chance.
The odds are good that if something happened I would be somebody else who for justifiable reasons of my own, whatever they may be I'm not even going to say what they are because it's not anybody's business what those justifiable reasons are.

(51:52):
I would most likely be somebody who would need to consider abortion and realizing that and facing that and facing that there could very easily come that time and I have to go to another state.

(52:13):
Yeah or I have to go through some invasive procedure or I would have to use an online mail order service in order to get the chemical pills for the chemical abortion.
It's very very overwhelming to sit here and say that now we're going to have to work to get back rights that our grandparents had that now we don't.

(52:41):
Yeah and I know I don't know how many women who over the years for whatever reason either considered abortion and went through with it or considered it and didn't go through it but those are all their stories.
And now here we are sitting and facing this reality that something could happen and some of these women that we know or that we've known or that we have yet to know may not be here to tell us their story one day.

(53:14):
Yeah that's wrong.
Yeah it is very overwhelming to me it's just so it hits home so personally and this man started on stuff and I said to him do you have any idea what it's like to face the fact that the entire country is talking and deciding about something that goes on in your body.

(53:41):
Yeah that's right that's why I get angry at the man no more one guy tried to tell me well he the end of our he was trying I guess he was trying to be nice but he still had the attitude you know how you can sense that attitude in him.
Well I'm just a simple man saying that I don't think that people should be putting babies to death or whatever it was that he said and I said yes and I said and you're just a simple man that will never understand because that's just it you're a man.

(54:10):
And it's true I mean it unless you're wife that's what I said unless your wife or partner falls pregnant and it doesn't work out the way you want it to you know I forget the wording that I used but that's what I was getting at.
If you just remain a single man for the rest of your life and you know or even if you don't if you do see a man can just walk away he can have sex and he can just walk away.

(54:39):
But now I'm getting in on this conversation with what this woman needs to be doing and I don't know if I get someone pregnant it's up to me it's up to them already they've they've already got that choice of do a stay or do I go I bugger at least get out of this.
Right and then we have the system that doesn't back her up that she's got to go fight we got to pay for paternity we got to do this we got to do that I mean listen to all the hassle that could be totally avoided if we just uplifted.

(55:08):
And we just uplifted and respected the decisions and the choices that other people decide to make and recognize that it's their circumstance and it's their situation and that it's just not our place to decide for someone else and if we're going to talk Christianity and we're going to talk religion that is fundamentally the foundation of Christianity is that we have choices that God gave us all choice even back in the beginning.

(55:37):
God gave us choice in the very very foundations of human experience and we have been making choices thereafter and every choice whether good or bad has consequences nothing is 100% nothing is 100% easy and ultimately though it has to be our decision if we uphold those or we pursue those or not.

(56:02):
And if we just leave people alone and let them figure this stuff out for themselves maybe it would be a better world.
All these Christians are always going on about free will well yeah it's free will God gave free will he gave choices you make the decision at some type remember we were talking about that in one of our other podcasts and I couldn't believe that God there was this certainty that came up in my life and God said to me well.

(56:30):
And I couldn't believe I was like see you mean this is my choice and it was like well I mean it's totally a different totally totally different subject but it's still and God was like well yes it's it's you it's up to you and wow and I was sort of blown away.
And yet we have people interfering busy bodies basically interfering with other people's business and it's just it's not right.

(57:04):
If I fell pregnant again I've got a word me I don't think I would have an abortion I would.
Ah that's my choice right that's your decision that's my decision and it'd be probably a crazy one at 50 I'm nearly 53.
So yeah probably would be a crazy decision but oh well you know it's still my choice isn't it it's still your choice and we don't have any right to judge that that's your choice.

(57:39):
Yeah well we wouldn't do it for someone else if their choice was to not have it.
And I think the older woman probably would get judged though I've seen it these older women thinking because there was a woman I think she felt pregnant when she was 60 or 63 or something and she had this baby and everyone was up in arms over it so judgment or like oh she's too old what does she think she's doing having a baby to see you still can't we you still can't win can you.

(58:11):
I'm going to be someone criticize and yeah now I'm critical now someone's getting criticized so having a baby I'll walk like that right and so doesn't that prove the point though that we can never win.
Not that's right.
That's right.
If we have it it's wrong if we don't have it it's wrong you know if we have it under circumstances that people don't approve of it's wrong if people don't have it because they don't feel the circumstances are right that's wrong so we all just can't win.

(58:40):
So pretty much damn it do whatever is right for you.
Well that's right well that's what it comes down to get your nose out of other people's business and just mind your own but they can't.
That's the problem but these politicians though that this is what gets me like like you said we've had the conversation before they care about these babies while they're unborn or the you know the fetus.

(59:09):
While it's unborn but and at the same time that you know not more than two years ago they were locking kids in cages right and no one cared about that or about all of you.
And foster care or yeah about that no one cares about those poor where where do we see it do these politicians go you know do they help fund these orphanages do they well some of them do but do most the majority of them even care what goes on.

(59:38):
In foster care and things like that no that's okay you can just adopt a baby out well okay then I'm all right then yeah okay.
And adoption is just so ridiculous anyway all these people that do actually want to adopt why do they have so much trouble adopting.
Right and they put you through hell and worthiness and you couldn't go adopt a baby at 12 or 13 so why are we forcing a raped girl to do that.

(01:00:12):
See it's just there's too many holes in yeah it's just whatever makes them feel good about themselves I suppose when like you said in that in that mean when they're not really.
Do it anything but the do you know what I mean this it's so convenient to hop on about these these aren't the unborn isn't it this so convenient yeah.

(01:00:36):
They don't have to take any responsibility or have any real responsibility do they.
No they can do it and it sounds moral and it sounds good and it sounds whatever and it's convenient it's not really requiring them to do anything it's a lot easier to.

(01:01:03):
Advocate for something that they're not gonna have anything ever to do with that's right they can just turn away from somebody who has a need that's right in front of them.
Yeah that's right yeah and they do and like there was another meme that said well if it was about babies there'd be free formula that be free nape is that be free.

(01:01:26):
This is not a raise your baby that be free this that be free that that be doing everything they could to help these babies but where do you see any of that right now you have an a formula sure it's yeah right and so now they don't want nobody to have an abortion but we can't feed no one so that's not you know.
There's another issue oh my god people are not thinking I mean you know if there's anything I'm walking away with from this episode is that people have problems with thoughts and they don't think about things.

(01:02:00):
Well they don't think about the progressive it's not there's no progressive thought there is there not thinking about well if this leads to this leads to this leads to this and that can happen they're not even.
It's like this is going to happen but I'm walking away see later that's yeah I'm going to get in someone's face and call them a murderer I'm murdering my baby and then I'm going to walk away and I'm going to feel self righteous about myself because I would never do that.

(01:02:29):
Right but that's exactly what the point is it's like well as long as I don't have an abortion I'm okay screw the fact that you're an asshole.
But what if you need an abortion if you're a woman what if you need an abortion why would you be because I'm term I'm using the medical term see I'm saying I was like I said to in 2004 I was told you've had a Mr.

(01:02:51):
Borshan and I was like a what I didn't understand and they said yes that's what we call it your body it's not it's not expelling you've missed the fact that the baby has died and it's died in in your uterus in your body.
It's not going to let it it's not going to expel it.

(01:03:14):
Right so and it happens it happened whether we want to deal with it or not it has.
And I said someone in the feed as well another woman I said about I had an eptopic pregnancy and she said but that's rare I said no it's not rare.

(01:03:36):
It's not as rare as you say why do people keep saying it's rare it's not because they want it to be rare because they want they basically have narrated that 99.9% of pregnancy that resulted abortion or irresponsibility.
So the fact that you have people that have medical reasons for abortion doesn't fit that narrative.

(01:04:05):
Like I might die I think I need to do something about this and think I really think do they they don't think no they don't.
What you chose you chose your life over your baby's life no my baby was going to die anyway.
It's not and that's and that's supposed that's opening another kind of worms and we're running out of time but I even I don't know what your stance is on you say measure but it's a sort of a similar issue isn't it you know it is right.

(01:04:40):
Yeah that's another maybe that's one for another time that would definitely be one for another time and as you said we are pretty much out of time.
And conclusion what's something that you would like to say to leave everybody with just that don't and see that's what I found in the majority of these you know these forums and these things that I saw online was once again we I see it too much in the Christian community actually I see it too much.

(01:05:11):
They're always towering everybody with the same brush like you just said they presume that 99.9% of an abortion is an irresponsible girl it's not even say woman because most of the time they think it's just a young and
irresponsible girl. The stereotyp you know of it is a young irresponsible girl that just doesn't want a baby and just I don't want one and so blah blah blah and so that's what they think do you know what I mean even even though she may have legitimate reasons I'm not even arguing that point.

(01:05:52):
I'm just saying that they're saying that it's all about that but it's not all about that it's about so much more and it's so much more serious than that and if it gets down to a point of zero tolerance then women are just going to die.
And they've got a mindset that no that won't happen but you know how can you say that that won't happen it's they're saying what point of zero tolerance or zero whatever it is determined using what point of zero don't you understand like no exceptions means no exceptions.

(01:06:34):
So they really just need to think a little bit more you know people I'm not I didn't go out of my way to murder my baby but that's what it is being put into that category now by them really.
Do you understand they're not saying that it is a saying no no no but you're the exception because it's rare no no no no it's not rare and I'm not an exception.

(01:07:06):
Do you know so that's just my concluding thoughts on it meant to that it's not rare and you're not an exception.
Because I'm thinking why do they think it's so rare I'm more and more we're hearing and like you said about at the beginning that you wanted me to come on here and tell my story and I think that that's it not enough people like me not enough I they probably will now because you normally find that it starts to happen once this sort of thing happens that women like me need to be the ones telling their story because if they don't and we're not.

(01:07:45):
They don't and we just stay quiet about it then they're just going to assume it's rare and that hardly anybody goes through this and it's like the stigma with miscarriage you know like I went and how long ago was that 2004 18 years ago.
I was so much stigma even then like you didn't talk about a miscarriage and I found I couldn't and like my sister in law had her daughter two days after I had my DNC almost destroyed me I was just like but nobody knew how to talk to me and I felt like I was supposed to just stay quiet about it.

(01:08:24):
Now it's opening up no people are talking more about let's talk about our miscarriage let's talk about how hard we were let's talk about how harder it is when you've had a miscarriage to see all these other pregnant women around you all your friends are pregnant and you've lost.
So now it's being talked about but back then it wasn't and so it's the same with this thing we need to tell our stories because if we don't people like that are just going to whitewash everyone else.

(01:08:53):
Like they did like I try to push that woman in that conversation and say it's so am I a murderer or not what I was just I was just trying to get it to think you know that it's not all about me wanting to yeah there's just so much more to it but we're out of time.
Well and I think that that was point in and I think we should do a miscarriage episode now that you really talked about that that we really should because it's a stigma there is there is and you can vouch that we know each other for 15 years.

(01:09:32):
And I never told you I had one and you never told me that you had one up until a couple years ago.
Yeah, it was something that we knew each other for all those years and we never talked about it and it's just.
Previous it doesn't it yeah it really does prove it that there is a stigma around it and like you know I wish that when it happened to me I had talked about it with somebody because I really didn't I didn't really understand what happened and my and my.

(01:10:01):
Instance they were much earlier than yours within the first month which is technically what they call a chemical pregnancy because it's not actually really viable as far as anything goes it's just kind of like you have fertilization but the implantation and all that is not really normal and so from what I've read that typically when it is that early it is because of a birthday

(01:10:27):
fact there's usually something chromosomeally wrong. Yeah so I was getting it God has already made the decision not stop it away you know right and I wish that I had talked about it more with somebody because I didn't understand I really did not understand what happened and you know we never talked about it and I think that that really does tell people what a stigma this has.

(01:10:56):
In our lives because I remember when you started talking to me about it I could not believe that you had to go through that by yourself and then you're going through it alone and we have to consider the time when this stuff happened doctors tend to not be really.
Really empathetic because they are trying to save your life and so their focus is different than maybe on your feelings at that moment and what a terrible and hard thing it is to go through and so I definitely think we ought to do that and we will get into all that for another episode how can everybody getting contact with you if they want to.

(01:11:31):
Mainly Facebook really I guess and our new platform that we're going to be going on like we mentioned our new blog probably there yeah I would say it would be easier.
Definitely.
And Instagram I'm on there too if you've ever joined my Instagram then J have 1969 you would see there all my lovely plants which yes I am also a plant mum so I absolutely and check it out and also our page ministry of memes which is our Facebook but have a really good sense of humor.

(01:12:07):
Yes and that is where we are at our feelings.
Yes and you have to be very open-minded to be on ministry of memes yes we do and our blog is one of the stuffy questions and our blog is becoming us and it is at medium dot com.
And I thank you for coming on here today and talking about this because this is a very difficult thing to talk about for a lot of people and like you say if we don't tell our stories they get to white wash everybody and where they're adding every circumstance and so I really thank you for being on here today and I really do encourage our listeners to check out a few resources if you are interested in learning more about this topic.

(01:12:53):
The book I universally recommend is called Sacred Choices the right to contraception and abortion in 10-world religions it's by Daniel McGuire that book is sacred choices the right to contraception and abortion in 10-world religions by Daniel McGuire.
You can look it up and find it on Amazon it is an older book but I do believe that it is available. Another book that I highly recommend is called Thy Kingdom Come how the religious right threatens and distorts the faith and threatens America by Randall Balmer that's the Thy Kingdom Come and evangelicals lament how the religious right distorts the faith and threatens America by Randall Balmer also available if you go on amazon.com also if you're on there feel free to look at the book.

(01:13:40):
On there feel free to look me up Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino and find any of my 35 titles that are available there is something for everyone available in both paperback and ebook also if you are interested in learning more about the world of counterculture Christianity feel free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org that's kingdompowernow.org.

(01:14:01):
If you are interested in seminary that deals with modern day topics and modern day issues feel free to check out apostolicuniversity.org that's apostolicuniversity.org significantly cheaper than other seminaries and you will use everything that you learn therein.
And if you are in the Charlotte North Carolina area and you are looking for a place to belong where we respect your choices what we respect who you are and no matter who you are you are welcome in this place feel free to visit sanctuary online at welcomeinthisplace.org that's welcomeinthisplace.org and if there's any information not on there that you would like to learn about feel free to reach out to any one of the leaders and we will be happy to get back to you.

(01:14:45):
And in closing this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you that choice is a sacred thing and whenever we start taking away people's right to choice no matter what the issue is we are robbing them of a part of their spiritual process.
Until next time be blessed.

(01:15:08):
Thank you for joining us on Kingdom Now. I pray that it is proven to be a blessing in your life offering an on time word for you to learn more about this work ask a question submit feedback advertise with us order suggested items be a guest or donate to support this work as our podcast is supported by people like you.

(01:15:34):
Visit my website which contains essential information projects and other points of contact around the way.
kingdompowernow.org also if you would like to visit sanctuary international fellowship tabernacle sift in one of our North Carolina or South Carolina locations check out welcomeinthisplace.org until next time this is Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you that the kingdom of god is within you and that means the kingdom is now.

(01:16:03):
The kingdom is now.
(dramatic music)