The Simple Things Confound the Wise

Where do you seek to find God? Many still think they must earn their salvation, believing God only to be in big things, gestures, and ideas. But where is God? Join Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino and Ministers Nik Lewis and Charlie Reep for a conversation about the way God works in simple things - making sure we don't miss His message to us.  (Intro and Conclusion Track "Ready to Rock" by Yvgeniy Sorokin, https://pixabay.com/users/eugenemyers-40510887/. Righteous Pen Publications Track "Inspirational Background" by AudioCoffee, https://pixabay.com/music/corporate-inspirational-background-112290/.)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Are you a writer who wants to become an author?

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The righteous pen publications group is waiting for you with packages and options available
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Visit their website at righteouspenpublications.com.
The righteous pen publications group, find your voice with us.
Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge, as we celebrate the Kingdom

(00:53):
of God within you.
I am your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, author, podcaster, professor, and theologian,
and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I am excited to share this program with you as we explore the ins and outs of Counterculture

(01:13):
Christianity as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.
And to learn more, visit my website at www.kingdompowernow.org.
And now, our program, which features a variety of formats here, just for you.
Interviews on a variety of relative topics, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from

(01:36):
my North Carolina studio to Sanctuary and Beyond.
And powerful insights here for now as we turn the world upside down everywhere we go.
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.

(01:57):
Happy whatever time update is wherever you are and to our listeners in name a Country.
Korea, South Korea.
Okay, Nik, how do you say hi?
annyeonghaseyo
I say what Nik said.
We hope that whatever time update is when you are listening that you are having a good
one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.

(02:20):
And I am hoping that this is recording because it's not showing me all the nice recording
stuff.
Oh, I see it's up there.
Okay, we've got a new thing.
I'll edit that out.
Or maybe I won't.
Anyway, it's been a long day.
I've been editing and doing layout on a 500 page book.
Anyway, so we hope that whatever time of day is when you're listening that you're having

(02:41):
a good one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.
And I am your host, apostle, Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire serving as the voice of
counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel free
to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org.

(03:01):
The simple things confound the wise.
It's actually based on a Bible passage where it literally says that God will use the simple
things to confound those who think that they are most wise in this world.
So why is it often that we go looking for bigger things, more impressive things, more spectacular
sites, higher things to try and achieve power in all the wrong ways.

(03:24):
We'll be talking about this concept today.
And I have to returning guests who are in the same room in so far, that's not a good idea.
So far, they've already been obnoxious several times and we just went on air.
So we have minister, Nik Lewis and Charlie Reep from sanctuary back with us and everybody

(03:47):
take a minute and introduce yourselves.
Go for it.
All right, minister Charlie is pointing at me.
So I guess I'm going first.
Hi, if you can tell I am minister Nik, pronouns they/them also worship leader for sanctuary.
And here, sorry, it feels like two Thursdays and one, I'm trying to process words.

(04:09):
It's only Wednesday.
I know I keep forgetting it's Wednesday.
It's Wednesday, my dudes.
All right, anyway.
Oh, I have a blog website thing.
It's nikfits.com that's N-I-K-F-I-T-S.com.
I use a lot of pop culture references for some of my posts.

(04:34):
I have one that I'm going to post later tonight that is particularly slightly off the wall
but kind of ties into the simple things to confound the wise.
And yeah, happy to be back.
Thank you so much.
Your couch is very big.
Yes it is.
I'm minister Charlie, they/them pronoun user, minister of education at sanctuary and also

(05:02):
owner of a website.
It's called beloved-not-broken.com.
I do pop culture things as well but definitely to a lesser extent than minister Nik does.
And even then, my pop culture is not anime related.
It's more Marvel and Pacific Rim related.

(05:22):
And yeah, I don't have a blog post coming out.
I'm sure I'll have one in the next few days.
That's how it happens.
Famous last words.
I know, right?
I was going to say, we're on a schedule.
We're going to have one out soon.
Okay, so let's probably back up here and talk a little bit about this concept about simple

(05:48):
things confounding the wise.
So who wants to go first.
Nik should go first it was their idea.
And they also appointed me again.
So I guess I am going first.
Of course, I can't think of specific examples right now, but we keep running into different
situations where we keep getting revelations and unexpected places like Charlie and I and

(06:12):
to promote their blog for a second as I gently fist bump them.
They have been having a lot of revelations and doing a lot of blog posts that are basically
from our health, all of a job in corporate America.
And how I guess logically the next move because things are so bad is the nicest possible

(06:38):
that I can use for it.
That's get a job, quit, get your resume out there, look somewhere else.
And God can be like, no, I need you here for a little bit longer and you throw a tantrum
on the ground like a spoiled child at that news.
But you see kind of God working in the midst of all that and you see different things

(07:04):
that you get more to become a better person or that just show you more things about God.
And there was also the Emperor's New Groove that we watched Saturday that of course I watched
this a child originally so I remember we would have picked up on it.
But in going back so if you don't know the plot or premise of the Emperor's New Groove,

(07:28):
it's a Disney movie that came out in 2000.
Yes.
Yeah, it's old enough to vote.
I still don't know how I feel about that.
It's almost old enough to rent a car.
I think it might be worse.
Ha, the point of voting.
Six, whatever.
Anyway, oh, that's ruining each other's day.

(07:49):
Okay, anyway, it's a double Thursday.
It's only Wednesday, Nik.
I know it's Wednesday.
It feels like Thursday, but a very long Thursday.
This is going to be interesting.
So this Mesoamerican prince, because they don't really like name a specific kingdom or empire.

(08:13):
And then Kuzko is kind of a jerk.
He's narcissistic, self-centered, all that stuff.
And he summons one of the peasants from his village to ask about the hilltop where his
house is that's been there for generations.
He's just like, where do you find you get the most sun and Pacha, the peasant, kind of like

(08:36):
pushes them over to the other side of his model?
And it's like right here in Kuzko is like, all right, thanks.
And how does like that, so you need it before?
He's like, yeah, I just wanted an insiders opinion before I moved my pool here to that.
And he says, this is the spurt they get to him.
So through a series of events and wacky plot reasons, he gets turned into a llama.

(08:59):
Because he has to get back home, but Pacha is the one who would have to take him back home.
You know, the one he was basically going to evict for his own project.
So as they go back, Kuzko basically learns the value of having people in his life and
caring about other people.
But you also see Pacha demonstrate unconditional love to Kuzko and basically not giving up

(09:25):
on him that he could change.
And so I pointed that out to Charlie and they made a face and we both just kind of like,
this is what we have to do as a human.
So basically as much as we make it kind of difficult, unconditional love is kind of simple.

(09:46):
It is simple and serian and very complex and application.
Yeah.
That you have to do a lot of different things.
Like set aside your pride.
Yeah, we got to make it hard because of stuff like that.
Mm hmm.
Get in our own way.
It really does.

(10:07):
So I looked up the passage that we're kind of talking about.
And I am actually going to read the whole passage because the whole thing kind of applies.
So it is first Corinthians one and it starts in verse 18.
This is in the NIV for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,

(10:32):
but us who are being saved is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate.
Where is the wise person?
Where is this teacher of the law?
Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

(10:54):
For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know him.
God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling
block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.
But to those whom God has called both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the

(11:17):
wisdom of God.
Where the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom and the weakness of God is stronger
than human strength.
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called.
Not many of you were wise by human standards.
Not many were influential, not many were of noble birth, but God chose the foolish things

(11:39):
of the world to shame the wise.
God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things, the things that are
not to nullify the things that are so that no one may boast before him.
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus who has become for us wisdom from God,

(12:00):
that is our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Therefore as it is written, let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.
Now that we said that, in other words, basically everything that is God is always not going to
be the way that the world would expect.

(12:23):
And it is not going to always make sense.
Or it is usually not going to make sense.
It is not going to make sense for these.
Okay, I am going to go ahead and share what.
So you read the part about God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things
and the first thing I thought of was, "Okay, the queer community is well despised by the

(12:47):
Christian community."
That is a safe statement.
Yeah, so then I was like, "Oh, hey, the queer Christians are going to be the ones to do
stuff for God."
And also throughout the little community.
There is a lot that Christians can learn from BDSM that they probably wouldn't think so

(13:08):
otherwise because those who practice Kink are basically stigmatized as these sexual
deviants who have torture chambers or whatever in a separate room in the house where we just
kind of go about our day.
And as a shameless plug here, I preached a message last year.

(13:33):
Yeah, I think it was the last January of February.
Something like that, yeah, called Jesus is thea safe word.
And I basically tied that into the concept of the safe word is basically whatever is happening
you utter that word or you do some motion depending on if you can be verbal or not and whatever
is going on stops.

(13:55):
So whenever you call the name Jesus, whatever spiritual madness or whatever you were entangled
in before, you came to Christ stops.
You still deal with the consequences of your actions is not like a magical thing that just
erases everything.
But you are free from what was keeping you bound prior to Jesus.

(14:22):
But no one, well, very few people would probably have thought to get a message out of something
like that.
Well, in the way that you got it was a very simple thing is confounding the wise because
all of a sudden it's like 7:30 in the morning.
Yes.
All of a sudden it's 7:30 in the morning and I'm getting this text message.

(14:44):
Oh my God, you guys.
Jesus really is the safe word.
I was like, okay, first of all, it's entirely too early.
But the way that you got it was very much a simple way.
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say something that you all very conveniently

(15:07):
brought up before we even went on air that you know, I tend to send you all messages
in the middle of the night because that's when the very simple revelation comes.
And it's often many times that we're just reading a Bible verse.
So we're reading a passage in all of a sudden something jumps out at us, something makes
sense.

(15:28):
Or if you know, you're like us, you're maybe watching a movie to relax.
Oh, yes.
You know, doing something for quote unquote fun and God's like, hey, hey, here's an idea.
You're like, God, I'm trying to relax.
No, no, no, here's an idea.
It reminds me of trying to be watch.

(15:51):
Watch me.
Okay, the meme with the brain and the person is trying to sleep.
And it says.
Are you going to go to sleep now?
And it says, yes, shut up.
And then it says, you know, do you know that all the C's in Pacific are pronounced differently?
And the word, the right and that all the and that the person's eyes bug open.

(16:13):
And so it's like that God's like, oh, hey, you're watching a movie there.
Yeah, go away.
And then the God is like, I know, how about we have a lesson?
Yeah, rewatching Attack on Titan for, I guess I can do the first time all the way through
when everything came out.
And then I just get a whole Sunday school about spiritual warfare out of that.

(16:36):
How are you doing that next month?
No, I already did it.
Oh, you already did it.
Oh, I was like, are you doing that for this means war, but okay.
No, I already did it, but I have the feeling it'll come up again at some point of time.
So simple things apparently God works through them.

(17:02):
And so what happens when church keeps looking for big things?
We missed God and little things, which is funny because I forget exactly where it is, but
that's scripture about if you're faithful over a few, I will make you faithful over many

(17:24):
or something like that.
So the gospel.
Well, that really narrows it down.
That's four books.
You know, do you remember how long Luke is?
You know what?
I'm a little bit out.
What does I want to be right with?

(17:45):
It's in the gospel.
We narrowed it down to four books out of 66.
So it's funny because Nik was right and it's Luke 16, 10, whoever is faithful to even
little will be, will also be faithful with, you know, etc, etc.
But you're like, oh, it's in the, I didn't even think that it was just like, did you

(18:08):
forget how long Luke?
Oh, wow, it is in Luke.
So little things matter.
And I'm thinking of the verse in the song of Solomon somewhere that says that the, look,
at least I got it down to one book this time where it says that the little foxes spoil

(18:31):
the vine.
And a lot of times I think that in Christianity today, we tend to have the focus on the
bigger is better.
And so that hustle culture that is kind of like the secular version of the Puritan work
ethic.

(18:53):
And I don't know where that came from that just came out of my mouth that, that was a word.
That's the secular version of the Puritan work ethic is that we need to hustle.
We need to push.
We need to be millionaires.
We need to be this.
We need to be that when the Bible often always tells us that, you know, it's just God gives
His rest.
Now, that's not to say there isn't a balance between work and rest.

(19:17):
It's not to say that the Bible also doesn't present that.
But I think that we're so busy focusing on all these big things on being big, on being
larger than life.
But we don't remember that all those little things matter and that they add up, that us taking
our efforts to do something, you know, the Bible also says despise not the day of humble beginnings.

(19:43):
That we want so much to be in a bigger place.
It's kind of like we try to skip over the steps involved to get to bigger places.
And we forget that all those little steps are what add up to make things different.
And I guess that it's that we can't hear from God if we're always hustling.
We can't hear from God if we're always chasing big things.

(20:06):
We can't hear from God if our whole focus is on everything.
But these little messages that he often sends to us, often throughout our days.
So I wanted to jump in earlier because when you were saying something about, we all want
this big stuff in church.
That reminds me of the sermon that you preached a while back Does Size Matter?

(20:31):
And yeah, that's the phrase that came to mind.
It was like, "Hmm, it's not the size of it when you use it, but it's true.
But it's true.
It's very true."
Yeah, but then you said all that stuff about us wanting to skip over the little stuff in
it's like, "Hmm."

(20:52):
Yeah, I mean, I think back to, I guess this is the way we're talking about it.
I guess this is going to air after my testimony.
Yes, yeah.
That's the sort of, right?
Yeah, so how it explains, like, I never intended to be a minister.
I just kind of made these baby steps several, several years ago that led me to Charlotte.
And then that's how I got here.
So that's, yeah, that's kind of what I thought when you said that.

(21:19):
And I'm just kind of thinking five loavs, two fishes.
I mean, how many miracles did Jesus himself perform with a little?
With very little.
Or that one where it was just mud?
Oh, yeah.
I like, pick up the mud off the ground and put it on the guy's eyes.

(21:40):
Yeah.
And then that woman who touched the hem of his coat, not even him, but just like part of
his clothing.
And just like who touched me and disciples are like, Jesus, you're in a crowd.
What do you mean who touched you?
Which is like, no, no, no, someone touched me.
And then one was like, hi, it was me.

(22:01):
Sorry.
He's like, no, be healed.
Go.
Okay, but a lot of people wonder why he didn't just get to the point in his ministry.
Like you have these people who go, well, why did he have to grow up and why did he have
to wait till he was an adult?
And why did he not just die?

(22:21):
You know, if it was all about salvation, why did he spend these years teaching?
Because all of that stuff matters and all of that stuff makes a difference.
And if we think about it, he really didn't move fast.
He moved at a pace that would frustrate the wise, that would frustrate people who it's

(22:41):
like, okay, let's get on with this here.
No, we're going to take our time and we're going to reach out and do all these little
things that are going to add up to matter.
I did a blog post on that recent one.
Tell us about it.
I don't remember what that is.
I am going to look for it because of course, I don't remember what I wrote.

(23:05):
Chuck talk instead of me.
Well, you made a face at the whole thing.
Why didn't he just just die?
Yeah, because I was like, well, that's really morbid, but also like, that is a very
big thing.
Like, if it was just about the practicality of Jesus being a sacrifice, I was like, well,
I mean, you make a good point that maybe his life wasn't just, maybe he wasn't just born

(23:31):
to die.
He was also born to live and how, you know, maybe he had to experience what it was like being
human for all those years of life to be able to relate to people.
You know, if you just dropped a human adult or some facsimile of a human adult into society
without any training, I mean, I'm sure if it was God, it would have been okay, but like,

(23:56):
you also got somebody who wouldn't necessarily relate to the people who've like had to live
through every single day of their lives up to that point.
So it reminds me of if anybody has ever watched Dr. Who, there is this episode with
Matt Smith's doctor, the 11th doctor.
He's hanging out with two of his favorite companions at the time, so it's Amy and Rory.

(24:19):
I forget what exactly happens, but instead of being able to like travel in a time machine,
he has to actually stay and in one moment of time and like live through however long he's
got to be there and he gets really, really bored after like 10 minutes and he's like, I hate
going through time all like slowly like this.

(24:41):
I want to just like skip around and I find that just, I mean, maybe that's what it is with
God.
So it's because God works in processes and we don't like processes.
Because processes are slow.
Yeah, so Jesus had to be born, had to mature and it still baffles my mind that the son of God

(25:02):
had to go through puberty of all things.
Oh, and then yeah, just really brings in the human element when you think about that.
And then you come in adult and then at the age of 30 where people in the 30s now complain
about, you know, back pain and bad knees.
And he's out there walking around the entire sea of Galilee.

(25:24):
He did get tired though.
Good.
And then he wonder why people woke him up.
So that's a move.
You know, the best now ever you're complaining about storm?
Right.
And then he just goes like storm.
And then it was still and I did find the blog post that I referenced that it was in the,

(25:48):
it's called Thank You, Koro-Sensi where I tie back to another anime, Assassination Classroom.
The title is a little bit of his spoilers, so sorry, but towards the end, I have a paragraph
that I'm just going to read.
Jesus embodied the gospel.
He taught healed, encouraged, reprimanded, corrected, fed and most of all lived.

(26:09):
What's still kind of baffling to me is that Jesus didn't start his ministry until he was
30.
My actually, which gives me a whole new existential doubt to process.
He was gotten incarnate and could perform miracles so why couldn't he have started early?
There could be another number of reasons why, but since we're not given any, they're either
unknown or unimportant.
All we know is that Jesus accomplished what he set out to do even at such a short amount

(26:31):
of time.
Huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, maybe some of the stuff of God is so simple that's the problem is it's like we
want something from our faith that it's not therefore.
We want it to make us somebody.
We want it to not make us stop and wonder when we're doing all these ordinary things.

(26:59):
It's like we don't want God to catch us off guard.
We want God on schedule.
We want our lives to follow a certain course and we want God to fit into that and the problem
is that God just does not fit into those boxes that we create.
I'm thinking it's kind of like, you know, forgive me for the reference, but it's kind of like
Marvel movies and how like in the beginning, they used to have a sort of simple plot and

(27:26):
then as you went on, they got more and more complex to the point where the directors were like,
if you spoil anything about this movie, you're going to be in so much trouble to the point
where like even the actors couldn't know who they were filming scenes with.
They couldn't know a whole bunch of details.
Even Tom Holland didn't really know what he was doing half the time because, you know,

(27:51):
he likes to talk.
So it's just like we have strained so far, like even within the Marvel Cinematic Universe,
we have strained so far from the simple like easy to understand plots and now it's just like,
what do you mean we have to have all this background knowledge and what do you mean?
Like all of these different plot lines are tied together in like a really complex way

(28:13):
when a simple storyline would have worked.
Huh?
I don't even know what to say to that.
I got to think about that.
First of all, the whole idea that actors don't even know what they're doing is crazy, that,
you know, you're keeping something so on the DL that it's like they can't do what they're

(28:36):
supposed to be doing.
But, you know, so I'm thinking of a book series that I've written, which I'm actually
going to recommend is the recommended reading at the end of this episode.
And it's called Seeds for the Season.
And the idea of it is that at the end of every season we're taking what we've learned

(29:00):
into the next season and so their seeds.
It seeds for us to plant like from season to season.
And it's a devotional series that does not have any cohesive theme.
It's just literally things that God is teaching me as I watch TV or as I read a book or as I

(29:20):
edit something that I don't really like or that I'll be walking in the street doing
Pokemon.
And, you know, that's my Pokemon time and I'm trying to figure out the whole concept with
these power stations now and how they keep disappearing and reappearing somewhere else.
You know, I'm standing there and all of a sudden it's, oh hey, did you think about this?

(29:45):
And it's like, oh no.
And they turn into devotions.
They turn into like day lessons that are literally off the cuff and what are going on.
But some of them are often really simple.
And I remember in the first book, I'm working on the second, I got a whole lesson out of an

(30:06):
impatients plan that somebody left near the dumpster at my old apartment or something,
you know, on that level that God is teaching us lessons if we're willing to see them.
You know, we keep wanting God to be big and deep and theological and complicated and

(30:27):
somehow God shows up to us in these very simple ways throughout our ordinary days.
It's funny mention that because for, I don't know, the past few minutes, I've been thinking
about one of my boys Brother Lawrence who, yeah, I thought you were going with that.

(30:49):
What did you think?
I thought you were going to mention somebody from Attack on Titan.
Oh, no.
I thought you were going to bring up K-pop.
Not that too.
Well, I mean, Chuck was closer with the Attack on Titan because, you know, he's dead.
He was among who lived during the Middle Ages.
Mom, where was he from again?

(31:10):
Europe.
I don't know.
Let me see.
Oh, look at that.
I'm leaving that in.
Beautiful.
Can we get a little more specific? Paris.
Oh, Paris.
Okay.
Okay.
So, yeah, he was Brother Lawrence.
I'm going to be a little more specific for Paris.
Oh, Paris.
Okay.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So, yeah, he was Brother Lawrence and he was born Nicholas Herman and He was from Hériménil

(31:38):
Look, he's from France anyway.
And he has, oh, God.
What is that book title?
The practice of the presence of God.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I could have told you that.
Okay.

(31:58):
But you want to know where he was from.
Okay.
I thought about the place in the backstory before I thought about the book.
I'm sorry.
I brainworked in a different process.
Uh-huh.
Trying to be simple over there.
Yes, I am.
The way God intended.

(32:20):
But anyway, getting back on topic, I actually learned about him from the Faith Formation
class in our seminary.
Apostolic covenant theological seminary.
Thank you. Acts
176.
Oh, weren't you?

(32:40):
It's a new season.
Okay.
But it was actually one of the supplementary texts that were available to read for it.
And I actually enjoyed it more than the main text.
And you basically read about how he was kind of just living in a monastery and would think

(33:05):
about God as he was going through with his daily routine, like he'd be in the kitchen doing
dishes and would kind of be singing songs to himself and developing his relationship with
God that way.
He didn't do all these different acts of charities.
He didn't like have a huge church.
He was just a dude in a monastery who mainly worked in the kitchen.

(33:29):
And he wrote different letters about different revelations that he got from God.
I will say he was a little extreme because he advocated at least at one point.
It's like, oh, you don't even have to finish all your meals.
God will sustain you.
It's like, no, no, no, finish your food.
But the creation, right.
I mean, fasting has a place, but like you can have me.

(33:51):
And since that white God gave us food, I mean, if we're not supposed to eat, why do we have food?
True.
So, yeah, keeping his extreme tendencies in mind, I really did enjoy kind of how he found
God in the ordinary and made it a lot simpler for someone to basically have a light bulb

(34:16):
go off on their head and be like, oh, hey, I can have a simple relationship with God
like that too.
And it could still be deep and meaningful without having to, I guess, work to produce it.
It's not gatekeeping.
It's not gatekeeping.
Okay.
So, thing I just got, as you were saying all that, I was like, wow, faith is accessible.

(34:40):
God is accessible.
And so, so many times and so many people try to make God inaccessible these days.
I mean, I think about a lot of the churches that I went to growing up, granted most of them
were mega churches based on size.
And it was pretty much understood that to be a quote unquote, good Christian, you had

(35:04):
to be heterosexual, you had to be cisgender, you had to be like wanting marriage, you
wanted to get with one partner and it had to be like, man, and woman, you had to want
kids and all this stuff.
And like, it was this milestone type of journey.
And for anybody who didn't want that kind of life, like if you were single and weren't

(35:29):
interested in joining Christian Mingle, IRL, which was the singles classroom, then you would
basically be left out.
And that's not a good message to send about God that like, if you don't fit into this
box, you can't be part of the kingdom and going back again to if you're part of the LGBTQ

(35:50):
community, there is this understood statement within a lot of Christian circles in America
that you can't be part of God's family when God didn't place limits on who could be adopted.
So what I'm hearing or the word that's coming to mind is grace.

(36:18):
And the reason it's that's that it's coming to mind is that the Bible specifically says
that we're saved by grace through faith, not of our own works, less than he mentioned
boast.
And the reason God doesn't let us save ourselves is because can you imagine what that would
be like?
One person bragging about what they did to somebody else or how good they are or all these

(36:42):
different measures, it would take our focus off of God.
My depression would be so much worse for one person.
It would be worse because you wouldn't be able to focus on God.
You would be focusing on what you're doing.
You would be focusing on your efforts.
But God says, hey, hey, I'm here and I'm accessible and I'm accessible in very ordinary

(37:05):
ways.
You don't have to jet off to Tibet and sit in the lotus position for 12 hours a day.
You don't have to do a formalized liturgy.
You don't have to burn incense.
You don't have to go through all these different things.
I'm right here and God lets us know in all these different ways that he's right there.

(37:30):
Once again, we go back to the grace thing.
We get all these revelations.
It's like, you know, accessible is another word for grace or something like that.
And it's like, I've lost kind of the number of times that you've pointed out something
is grace.
I'm like, oh, yep.
Once again, simple concepts that is we're trying to make way too complex.

(37:53):
You've got like cinnamon sticks.
Yeah.
And it's how we hear grace.
Well, because grace is cool, but we make it hard and I think we make it hard because we
keep saying our faith isn't hard or it's not hard to understand or this to that.
But then it's like we got to litter everything up with difficulties.

(38:16):
We have to make it complicated.
We have to make it more than it is because if it's literally something that we can just
reach out and touch and reach out and have and reach out and experience, then that
means that we don't need an awful lot of the regular moral that we put ourselves through.
We don't need to hustle.
We can find a balance between work and play.
We can find our faith in very ordinary ways and it's not all about trying to be something

(38:42):
that competes with everything else.
Yeah, because really famous guy in the Bible, you might know him when I get this reference.
But what a man once said, my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
It's a quote, Lee Ann and Chuck from earlier.

(39:04):
It's in one of the gospels.
I don't remember which one.
Matthew.
11th Chapter
Oh, I'm not.
That's the answer.
Fancy pants, Rich McGee over here.
Get out of my head.
I think it's verse 28.
But yeah, Jesus himself said like there is a yoke.

(39:28):
There is a burden that comes with us with doing like with God.
It, I mean, Jesus basically had a yoke becoming a human being.
We can't escape that.
Wow, that just dropped.
Okay.
Now that's a way nobody ever talks about it.
Okay, I'm going to just sit with that one later.
Human nature is something we have to control.

(39:51):
It's like a wild animal.
Yeah, it's like spiritual feralness.
I mean, I even go back to the whole Jesus went through puberty like Jesus might have gotten
sick.
Jesus probably got hurt on the job.
Jesus got tired.
Jesus got hungry to the point where angels had administered to them.
Like Jesus was fully God, but he was fully human.

(40:13):
He did have limitations for which something we don't.
Just talk about enough in my humble opinion, but anyway, going back to possibly Matthew 11,
verse 28.
Is it 11, 28?
I'll look it up.
Okay.
Matthew 11, 28.
Yes.

(40:33):
It is.
All right.
Cool.
I want a prize, damnit.
All right.
I'll give you Oreos.
Fine.
Okay.
But yeah, Matthew 11, 28, my yoke is easy and my burden is like, there's still things we

(40:55):
got to do.
There's still something that keeps us bound to God, but it's still freeing.
It is not something that is supposed to weigh us down.
It's not something that's supposed to be complicated.
It's not supposed to be something that makes us stumble.
And we do all those things ourselves.
And then we teach them the others.

(41:17):
That's why our faith doesn't have to be difficult because the life is hard enough.
Yeah.
And then we get a little say to masochistic with it and think that we have to make things
difficult.
So we have to teach other people that it has to be difficult.
Kind of an example that I will use in shock brought up the queer community with asexuals

(41:39):
in the church.
You know exactly where I'm going with this.
Yes, I do.
It's like don't have sex before marriage and then the asexuals who don't experience sexual
attraction are like, okay, cool.
And then it's like, wait, no, not like that.
What do you mean, not like that?
You have to suffer.
It's a sacrifice.
It is.
We're like Elle Woods in Legally Blonde, but like it's hard?

(42:00):
Right.
[laughs]
You younger me going, why do people cheat?
Why can't they just keep it in their pants?
Oh.
Why?
It's a struggle for some.
Oh.
Oh.
But why is porn always a topic at the youth group?
The talk.
Okay.
Why is it like a higher Christian?
I was focused on sex.

(42:21):
Why is porn the topic always at the youth group?
Oh my God.
I mean, I'm exaggerating, but like it does come up pretty frequently.
Okay.
Chuck, I don't think you're exaggerating that much.
I was about to say, I want to do different private Christian schools.
That is not an exaggeration.

(42:44):
And so now wanting to get up the topic too much, but what is everybody's answer to that?
To the asexuality thing or like the...
No, to the porn and the youth group.
Okay.
Look, I'm coming from the asexual perspective now.
Okay.
You know what I'm going?
That they are on porn at Teenage Us and then I'm going, well, that just explains a whole

(43:06):
lot about a lot of men I dated.
But...
And what was wrong with them?
But seriously, what do you say to that and a youth group?
You say something, Pithy, like give it to Jesus and don't actually do anything practical.

(43:26):
I don't think Jesus wants porn.
Have your struggles to choose us and who magically care you as if overcoming temptation is
a physical problem?
I mean, because we pretty much established that Jesus was a swallow, he was on earth.
So the whole idea that I don't think Jesus is looking for porn.

(43:49):
Anyway.
No.
Got better stories to write.
Yeah, I think he was, you know, busy.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, that's all so safe.
You know, people to witness to.
Yeah.
Eracles to perform all that.
Tables to overturn.
Yeah.
Women in adultery to set free.

(44:09):
Hmm.
So, Mary says to put on your clothes.
Leopers to heal.
You're coming up with an awful lot of stuff, y'all.
But, you know, that actually makes an interesting, confounding wise statement thing there because,
you know, he was pretty much about his business.
And he was about his business in a very simple way and he came with no fanfare and he didn't

(44:34):
walk around with a trumpet blasting every time he walked in the city.
And he just kind of did what he was about doing.
And maybe there's a lesson in that for us is that we need to know what we're supposed
to do.
We need to just do it.
Just do it.
As Shia LeBouf would say.

(44:55):
Don't let your dreams be dreams.
What is that from?
It's that Shia LeBouf gif where it's like, just do it.
I forget what the video is.
Thank you.
Your dreams come true.
Yeah, I forget what the video is for, but the video is also on YouTube.
Okay.

(45:15):
And count how many internet references you want to make in this.
So, it's not a Nike reference?
I mean, there is the Nike slogan, but, you know, where millennials are mean brains are
thinking, "Shia LeBouf."
Okay.
So, you know, in keeping things simple, my Gen X brain doesn't really know who that is.
Anyway, okay.

(45:36):
So, okay.
I really do appreciate that.
So with what we're saying here.
And we talk about simple things that I'm thinking about church.
I'm thinking about how often simple sanctuary is.

(45:56):
I'm thinking about how simple our concepts are, how we can go from talking about some
real heavy topic to being hysterical as it reminds Nik of aliens or Jesus is the
safe word or some pop culture reference.

(46:19):
And how it's all good, it's all faith, it's all the way it's supposed to be.
What do we offer other people or how do we like help them with this simple thing?
Because they all try and make it hard.
I was literally thinking to like how our services are set up.
It's like, you know, you walk into a mega church these days and you got like an entire

(46:47):
army of volunteers who are doing this, that and something else.
You have this pretty much pre planned like path where you enter the door, you go to get
your coffee, you go get escorted to a seat.
The worship setup is like, you got to have like concert venue type of lighting and sound

(47:07):
equipment and all of this.
And then you get to the actual preaching and then they have that transition between the
preaching and the music.
And it's all this, it's a really complex type of thing and it's like you come to Sanctuary
and it's like, I mean, we're just, we're just kind of doing stuff like we are
we keep to a schedule but it's not like every second count.

(47:31):
It's like, oh, you know, after I finish Sunday school, we'll do discussion or we'll do
our selfie service and then we play worship music on YouTube and then we have service and
then yeah, it's it's pretty simple but it's also, I mean, just what we need.

(47:52):
It's successful.
What?
Hey, there's that word again.
Because we actually meet in homes like we're meeting at my condo Sunday.
Mm hmm.
For that one day it was again.
Wednesday.
Yes, thank you.
But yeah, and then two Sundays from now will be at your house.
And two Sundays for then will be at your house.

(48:15):
Right.
So we just kind of rotate and since we're based in the Charlotte area, it's good that we
have two different locations in Charlotte to meet that.
But then we also have the neighboring Gastonia locations so that maybe people who aren't
in Charlotte or maybe people who are just passing high or like our in Gastonia for like

(48:38):
a weekend or something but actually live in Charlotte.
What have you or vice versa if they come to Charlotte and like them against any or something
they still have a place to go to.
Mm hmm.
And then there's this podcast which like we have a small congregation pretty much now,
but it still kind of hits me when what percentage were we in the podcast?

(49:06):
Yeah, well, 20, top 20.
Yeah, top 20 worldwide.
So a lot of you know what here is.
We don't know where we are.
We're grateful for you though.
Yeah, we really appreciate you.
We do.
Yeah, thank you for putting up with our nonsense and also taking away our revelations.
Well, and I remember when we first started doing sanctuary, we had other people involved

(49:30):
in sanctuary different points in time.
We've had a lot of people in and out.
And you know, we have church, you know, a lot of people don't stick with church nowadays.
And we had one person at one time who really wanted to make everything very liturgical and
traditional and wanted to do all those things.
And that is just not what God has said to do with this that we need to keep things as simple

(49:52):
and as basic as possible because people need to be able to follow along so we can talk
about deeper concepts.
And they're not so worried about not being able to follow along.
The other thing I'm going to say is a certain level of comfort.
I mean, you know, yes, we do need to worship, but in the first century, everybody worshiped

(50:12):
at home.
In the first four centuries, everybody worshiped at home.
It was not until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire that we had
buildings.
And so there's something sacred about being in homes.
There's something sacred about being in simple places that reach really, really powerful

(50:37):
audiences.
It's like I had made the point because we had recently been contacted by somebody in
Pakistan who needed our help that, you know, what's looked down upon in this country,
as you know, like not being sufficient or not being good enough or not keeping up is
commonplace for them over there.

(50:58):
It's very common for them to meet in homes.
Over here, you know, they act like, well, you can't do any better or you can't make it any
better, but you know, sometimes God wants to use simple things and put us in simple places
so that we can get our message out as simply as possible.
And it doesn't have to be complicated and it doesn't have to be orchestrated.

(51:19):
I mean, everything that you described, Chuck, sounds very orchestrated.
It sounds like you're on a conveyor belt and you go in and you're supposed to do all
the stuff and hit up all these different things and that's your experience, but where is
God in that?
More times than not in there, at least in the places that I went to, and I mean, this

(51:44):
also might have been where I was in my faith, it just kind of felt like we were always chasing
that spiritual high.
And I was a kid.
We were always going to summer camps and, you know, we'd have these big old worship
nights and it would be in a really big warehouse type of sized room with the dim lights and stuff

(52:04):
that was supposed to evoke a certain response.
And you would have that experience, you'd think you're on the spiritual high and then you
come back home, everything is normal again.
And so you're constantly going to these events trying to chase that same feeling.
That's like, I don't think, you know, the Holy Spirit does work through that, but I don't

(52:25):
think I experienced that in a lot of places.
I think I've had the coffee, you know, whoopers.
Coach standing the corner.
Yeah, I didn't see my thoughts about that.
But I think about that too.

(52:49):
You know, I was in some churches that were very sincere.
And there were a few over the years where I saw really, really incredible moves of God.
But then it seemed like at different points in time, it was like that kind of wamed.
And then the answer was, well, what now?
And so we tried to always go back to something else.

(53:12):
And it was a really fine line between making the pastor happy and giving a word that you
didn't have or producing something that wasn't there.
And you know, I'm going to say this as nicely as I can.
And I mean, you know, if I get a bunch of emails from the Seeker friendly community, I guess

(53:32):
I will.
You can give people as much coffee as you want.
You can dope them up on as many snacks as you can find.
You can do whatever it is that you want.
But if God is not in what you're doing, then God is not there.
And just because it's loud, doesn't mean God is in it.

(53:52):
I'm thinking of that passage with Elijah.
I think it is.
It's either Elijah or Elisha.
I think it's Elijah where he's, yeah, he's looking for Elijah.
Elijah.
You're looking for God in the wind and the wind isn't there.
And there's this big huge storm.
And God's not in that.
And that God, there was an earthquake.
And God didn't appear in that.

(54:13):
And God came in this still small way in the very ordinary way and a way that anybody could
experience and know that God had been in there.
It's not to say you can't have God in bigger things, but we can experience God so much more
than chasing after a high if we're willing to find God in simpler ways.

(54:42):
And so kind of re-emphasize your point because you mentioned my boy Elijah after he heard
from God in the cave with a small whisper that was after he performed a huge miracle of
calling down fire from heaven onto this sacrificial altar that had been drenched with like I think

(55:03):
four different pitchers of water, something like that, like four times.
I want to be able to do that.
All right, go on.
So God was definitely in that because it was let's face it, it was a measure in context between
Elijah and the prophets of him.
But and God proved that God is, well, God in fail is not.

(55:27):
So God was definitely in that, but God can also be in the winds.
I think the problem is we either look for God in different things or we try to limit
God to where we can find God.
And that's where we kind of get lost.
Like on a kind of group, you know, Sunday mornings, you know, it's listening to Christian

(55:52):
music, gospel, what have you and you can't listen anything else or else you are like interrupting
your Sabbath or not really experiencing God or something like that.
When God can speak as much through secular music as they can through Christian.
Absolutely.

(56:15):
So we're about out of time that hour went really fast, especially given that, you know,
it took us a little bit to get to the Holy crap moments part, but it came and you know
what always does because I think that it also proves that even when we're tired, even
when we think it's Thursday, when it's not, even when we've had long days that God can

(56:40):
still move, even if you know, we're, we're funny and silly a little bit of the time and
don't remember where brother Lawrence was from.
You know, we can still have our moments and God can still move because that's the whole
point is this is about God.
So what is something that each of you would like to leave with our listeners about what

(57:01):
we talked about today?
For the third time, Charlie has pointed at me, so I guess I'm going first.
This is coming for me as much as is going to come for other people.
Chill.
Yeah, yeah, this is what you get for pointing at me first.

(57:23):
Yeah, we have it.
Yeah, you know this is kind of your fault.
Uh-huh.
So yeah, it's not, you don't have to work to please God.
You don't have to work to earn God's favor.
God's grace.
God's mercy.
God's forgiveness.
God's entered whatever here.

(57:43):
You've already got it.
You don't have to let me confess this by saying, I'm not saying never go to church.
I'm not saying never go to Bible study.
I'm not saying never go to a retreat.
If you want to go to a retreat if you feel so let it go.
You don't have to make every retreat.
You do not have to make every church Sunday.

(58:03):
You do not have to make every Bible study.
You do not have to make any every single church of end up pops up.
You are allowed to take breaks and you are allowed to find God in the church of things
as much as you find as much as in the non church of things.
God's everywhere.
So you can find them everywhere too.

(58:29):
I'm drawing a blank but still small voices saying let go of perfection.
That is something that my manager at work had to tell me very recently.
I'm giving all the work ish that's going on and so you know I've been a natural, or
I've been a, I guess natural perfectionist my whole life.

(58:52):
I mean, same as that.
Yeah, eldest kid, you know, straight A's in school.
If I don't get 100% completion on a video game, I'm not happy with myself.
It's like again, going with the chill thing.
Let go of being perfectionist because like you were saying about how I'm sorry.
No, because this is payback for that word that you just gave us.

(59:17):
Anyway, completely lost my trainer's thought.
But yeah, perfectionist.
Oh, about how we don't have to work to earn God's Savior.
We don't have to go to every Bible study, go to every conference, go to every, go to every
single church service.
We don't have to volunteer on all of the things.

(59:37):
We don't have to, you know, we can take breaks.
We can let the ball drop for something.
I, you know, can't think of what, but again, it's like the grace thing.
It's, yeah, the only person who is ever perfect was Jesus.
The law has proven over and over that we are noirful as to perfect.

(01:00:01):
And so we pretty much just, I wouldn't say it's a waste of time and energy, but like trying
to check off all the boxes of, oh, I completed this law, I completed this law, I completed
this, this, this.
You know, I think about the rich young ruler who's like, oh, I've done all this inside
of the child and she's like, all right, bet.

(01:00:23):
Give up all your possessions, self before anyone who's always sad because it doesn't want
to do that.
Yeah, I can't think of anything else, but just that's rampantly.
What about that works?
Well, yeah.
I actually have something else that got, tell me as Charlie was talking, when you mentioned

(01:00:45):
letting the ball drop, that's just us being human.
And God is in our humanity as much as in God's divinity.
I've been known to say we drop the ball, that's human.
We pick it back up again.
That's grace.
Well, there you go.

(01:01:12):
Well, now that we all are very simplistically thinking about things, I think you both
are being on here and you all know that she'll be back.
We still have the second half of this season to record, which will be back in February of
next year, 2025.
And how can everybody get in contact with you if they would like to?

(01:01:35):
I will Nik just pointed at me real quick.
Okay.
You can get in touch with me through my website.
That's pretty much the best way to reach me.
I've got a contact form on the contact page.
So the website is beloved-not-broken.
Let's B E L O V E D - N O T - B R O K E N .com.

(01:02:04):
And then for me, there's again my website NikFits.com.
That's N I K F I T S dot com.
There is also a contact form on my page, but there is also a linktree that has stuff
to my Insta, my Twitter, I still refuse to call it X.
Same.

(01:02:24):
Yeah, my TikTok for however much longer we have that.
And heck, even my AO3 account if you feel so inclined to read angsty fix.
That's bold.
Yeah.
There's a thoughtful nurture.
No, that you'd give out your AO3 in public.
I'm like, "Mm-hmm, that's between me and God."

(01:02:46):
Look, it's...
You and God and everybody on that site.
What do you mean it's just between you and God?
It's about to say, "You have a lot more fics than I do."
You have to have an account to log in, but some of my mother doesn't find out.
Okay.
I Kelly if you'd like to know.
No, I Kelly if you'd like to know.

(01:03:07):
If you hear this, just skip that part, okay.
Anyway, that was funny.
Well, I'll probably get a text about that one as it airs, really.
You probably will.
And by then you won't remember and you'll be like, "Hon, you'll be like oh crap."
No, I won't.
You'll be like, "Oh, crap."
Okay, well, we...I think you guys are being on here and Kelly if you're listening.

(01:03:31):
Thank you for listening.
So, everybody else, we appreciate our listeners.
This was said earlier today.
We really do because you guys are the ones who took this podcast from literally being nothing
with, you know, maybe 50 listeners to where we're at now in most of the world.
And so, we're really grateful for all of you.

(01:03:52):
And if you would like a book that kind of taps into what we've been talking about today,
I encourage you to get my bookseeds for the season, 91 Days of Breakthrough.
And seeds for the season, 91 Days of Breakthrough.
And seeds for the season, too, is in production now and so there will be a sequel out very soon.
Look me up, Dr. Leon B. Merino on Amazon.com or wherever books are sold and all of my titles will come up.

(01:04:17):
There is something for everybody.
Go and check that out today once again, that's Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino.
Also, reach out on social media @Kingdompowernow, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok,
everywhere else.
Go and look me up @Kingdompowernoww and let's start a conversation.
Let's hear what you like, what you don't like, what you like to hear more of.

(01:04:39):
We love to hear from you.
It's like we say we don't know all of you, but we would love to get to know you.
And so feel free to add @Kingdompowernow and let's start that conversation today.
Also, check out my patheos column leadership on fire.
That's patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire
That's patheos.com/blogs/leadershiponfire

(01:05:02):
That blog is devoted to all things leadership.
So whether you're in leadership interested in leadership or want to learn more about it, that blog is there for you.
Leadership on fire is the name of it.
Check it out today.
Also, if you would like to learn more about the world of counter-cultural Christianity, feel free to visit my website at
Kingdompowernow.org.
That's Kingdompowernow.org.

(01:05:24):
If you're looking for seminary, which we mentioned earlier, entirely affordable donation based and you can do it right from home.
acts176.org for Apostolic Covenant Theological Seminary.
That's acts176.org.
And if you're in the Charlotte, North Carolina area and you are ready to explore your found family, which is waiting for you in a very non-threatening, non-converbal type way, you are welcome to check.

(01:05:52):
I said it, welcomeinthisplace.org.
That's welcomeinthisplace.org.
And if you have any questions that are not answered on the site, feel free to reach out.
We will get back to you as soon as we can.
And this is a possible Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing that we don't have to make God complicated.
So enjoy the simple things because that's where you're here.

(01:06:15):
That's where you'll hear his voice.
Until next time, be blessed.
[MUSIC]
Thank you for joining us on the Kingdom Now podcast today.
I pray it is proven to be a blessing in your life.
To learn more about this work, ask a question, submit feedback, advertise with us, be a guest, or donate to support this work.

(01:06:42):
As our podcast is sponsored by listeners like you, visit my website which contains essential information, projects and looks for other points of contact around the web at KingdomPowerNow.org.
Also, if you are in our area and would like to visit sanctuaryinternational Fellowship Tabernacle,

(01:07:03):
visit welcomeinthis place.org.
Until next time, this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you.
That the Kingdom of God is within you.
And that means the Kingdom is now.
[MUSIC]