December 19, 2023 • 36 mins
The existence of hell is one of the most controversial doctrines in modern Christianity. Used as a behavorial conduct tool for ages, many Christians don't understand where hell comes from, its relevance, or why it is designed to encourage faith. Join Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino for an in-studio teaching all about hell - answering any and all questions you might have. (Intro and conclusion track "No Mistakes" provided by https://slip.stream/748LSd).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[MUSIC]
(00:04):
Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge,
as we celebrate the Kingdom of God within you.
I'm your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, author and theologian
and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I'm excited to share this program with you.
(00:24):
As we explore the ins and outs of Counterculture Christianity,
present as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.
Want to learn more?
Visit my website at kingdompowernow.org.
And now, our program, which features a variety of formats here,
just for you.
Interviews, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from my North Carolina
(00:47):
studio to Sanctuary and beyond, and powerful insights here for now.
As we turn the world upside down, everywhere we go.
[MUSIC]
[APPLAUSE]
(01:09):
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Happy whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
And to our listeners in Belarus, we say vitaju.
We hope that whatever time of day it is when you are listening that you are having a good one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.
And I am your host, Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire,
(01:30):
serving as the voice of Counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of Counterculture Christianity,
feel free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org.
If you've clicked on this link, you're probably wondering what the hell?
While this episode is actually a listener request,
(01:50):
I was asked to do an episode all about hell, which I wasn't sure about initially,
but the more I thought about it, I said this might make for a very interesting episode.
And why?
Well, because using hell is some sort of tool to make people tow the mark.
Or making it a threat that someone is going to go there,
(02:13):
has given us a sense of hell as some sort of retaliatory thing.
And as a result, we don't really have a very good understanding of what hell is
or where the understanding of hell came from.
Within a lot of modern sensibilities, hell is often considered an offensive point,
(02:37):
or something to be dismissed as an outdated view.
In an often makes people very uncomfortable.
And I've even heard it described as toxic theology,
that is somehow designed to hurt people.
But all of these different ideas and different views really prove that we don't understand
(02:59):
the idea of hell, and we don't understand the reason why it exists in the first place.
And in that, we're so tempted to just start deciding what hell means,
that we don't know what it actually means.
And if we don't understand that, we aren't really going to be able to have a full view of
(03:20):
it, and we're going to be dismissive of the concept without really properly taking the
time to understand it, what it is, and why it's there.
So I'm hoping that I inspire a discussion and study into hell, and what it is versus what
it is not.
So maybe we can take some of the heat, and I do intend that, but out of hell.
(03:45):
So what is hell?
This is a loaded question that hopefully this episode will give insight into answering.
If we are to understand it properly, we have to understand other things first.
The first thing we need to recognize is that to understand hell, we have to first understand
(04:06):
two foundational things.
The first is that there is a God, and the second is that there is a spiritual enemy of God,
and the people of God known as Satan.
If someone doesn't believe in both of these things, they probably don't believe in hell
or think of spiritual things in the same way.
(04:27):
So if we acknowledge the existence of God, we start by recognizing that God is the creator
of all things, and that includes the things we see as well as the things we don't see.
Recognizing God exists everywhere at once, which is known as omnipresence.
With heaven, the place of eternity beyond the skies as His throne, or the seat of His
(04:53):
authority, it's kind of like a metaphorical throne.
The concept of hell is the idea of one specific place within the spiritual realm where God
doesn't exist.
Now I think it's a fair question to ask why would such a place exist?
Why is this singular place existing where God is not?
(05:17):
And the answer is simpler than we can imagine, and it's that hell was originally a thing for
the devil and his angels, a realm or a domain.
For those who don't know, Satan is the enemy of God.
The title Satan is ha-satan, and it literally means enemy.
And is a term applied both in the sense of an enemy in the Old Testament, and the larger
(05:41):
angelic enemy that is also known as Satan or the devil.
The theology goes that Satan was originally an archangel named Lucifer, and he was the
chief musician in heaven.
And he decided that he wanted to be God himself, so he wanted to put himself in the place of
God.
(06:02):
And when God wouldn't go for the idea, he was cast out of heaven with the third of the
angels who wanted to follow him.
Those angels became now what we know as demons, who do his bidding rather than being the
messengers of God's work.
This is the short version of all this stuff you can look it up and study it more in depth
(06:23):
if you like, in fact I would encourage it.
But of all this, what you essentially need to know is that all things Satanic, such as
hell, demons, etc.
Our counters to things in heaven, because heaven was their first, and hell is the inverse
of heaven's order.
(06:43):
So just like there are ranks and files of angels, there are also ranks and files of demons
that mirror and counter those in heaven.
Like for example, we know that there are archangels, well archangels are countered by
archdemons.
And so that would be an example of the way that basically hell kind of mirrors an evil
(07:05):
version of heaven.
But Satan is not restricted to hell.
Nor does he do most of his work from there.
For example, the book of Job speaks of Satan wandering to and fro in the earth.
Satan is not omnipresent nor omniscient.
He knows of events through the work of demons, and by roaming the earth looking to cause
(07:29):
trouble.
So in summary, hell is the dwelling place for Satan in his demons, and as we can see with
the way the afterlife is now understood, it is the place associated with wickedness.
I'm not for the sake of this going to get into the who goes to hell debate or discussion.
(07:50):
The truth is that I don't really know what determines that, and as the saying goes, I don't have
a heaven or a hell to put anyone in.
So it's not my call to give a list of things that sends someone there.
But I think if that's our focus, if our focus is on who goes down, we are using hell as a
(08:12):
weapon rather than embracing it for what it is, which is a fact.
If we don't want to spend eternity with God, he doesn't force us to do that.
And that's literally the teachable moment of hell for us all.
If we really, through our actions, our wickedness, our behavior make it clear that we don't
(08:33):
want to be with God, God doesn't make or force us to do it.
This might sound contrary to what you're used to hearing about it, but facts or facts,
because humanity has always sounded its own individualism.
It has always wanted its own free agency and even in our eternity where we desire to spend
it, God still gives us free choice.
(08:57):
It's not something that we threaten people with, it's something people choose for themselves.
And before we do the "oh, who could reject God" thing, which is typically what universalist
answer in contrast, I think that's a very naive perspective to have, if an angel would
do it a human would as well.
Because there's no telling the thinking of someone in that situation.
(09:21):
But hell ultimately reminds us there are consequences for actions as well as consequences
for choices, and we can't get away from that.
Yes, hell has been used wrong throughout the years, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
But it does mean we take the time and we learn some more about it.
So let's talk about the idea of hell in the afterlife.
(09:43):
Because with most spiritual realities, the evolution of hell and the abode of the dead have had
different influences at different points in history.
It's also not as simple to explain or describe as many try to do when they study the Bible.
So paradise typically refers to heaven or the transformed heavens and earth at the end
(10:05):
of time.
And let's look at a couple of Bible passages that kind of express this.
So Luke 23:43, Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise."
Okay, so that's a reference to heaven or to paradise basically kind of beyond this world.
(10:27):
Second Corinthians 12:3-4, and I'm reading from the New International Version
for those who are interested.
Says, "And I know that this man, whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know,
what God knows, was caught up to paradise and hurt inexpressible things, things that no
one is permitted to tell."
And the Apostle Paul was talking about himself and a particular vision of heaven that he
(10:51):
had at some point in time in his ministry.
And then there's Revelation 2:7, "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to
the churches, to the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree
of life, which is in the paradise of God."
So the idea of heaven or the transformed heaven or paradise are described often similarly
(11:15):
because the divisions of time and space as we now know it won't exist then.
Descriptions of hell, the abode of the dead, and the afterlife aren't always quite as
clear.
It's evident beliefs about the afterlife have changed over time.
Actually, a lot of what we understand kind of on the side about hell isn't found in the
(11:40):
Bible specifically, but the Bible's passages about hell make a lot more sense with the apocryphal
editions about hell included.
I know a lot of people have different feelings about the apocryphal, but no matter what
you think they can fill in a lot of informational gaps about information and culture and detail
(12:00):
that we need to be informed about what things mean.
The promise of eternal life has always been within the heart of God, but it wasn't only
something people understood or had much insight into figuring out.
It's also important to say that what people might have believed might have varied from
(12:22):
even one another, as the insights one had into hell and into the afterlife in general often
came through revelation, thus people might have had different thoughts about the afterlife.
The term hell was originally a reference to the place of the dead or the abode of the
(12:43):
dead within Old English terminology.
Among the ancient Hebrews, the earliest beliefs were that there was no afterlife.
If someone was dead, they were considered to be dead, because the ultimate punishment for
sin was seen as being death itself.
(13:04):
Immortality was achieved through family lineage, thus the emphasis that existed on procreation.
Later, we see the term "sheol" which literally meant "place of the dead."
And the souls were there awaiting resurrection, kind of as a temporary holding place.
(13:25):
No one knew how long they'd be there or how it would all work out, but nobody believed
that the grave or the idea of the grave was going to be a permanent thing.
Because God was associated with life, and the grave was associated with death, the grave
was understood to be the one place God did not dwell, because death was considered a separation
(13:50):
from God.
But even early in time, there was the understanding that the righteous and the wicked didn't have
the exact same fate.
This can be seen in a passage from the book of Enoch, which for the record does predate
New Testament times.
And I'm going to be reading from 1 Enoch, chapter 22, verses 1 through 14.
(14:16):
And then so I went to another place, and he showed me in the west another great and high
mountain of hard rock.
There was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth.
How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at?
Even Raphael answered one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto me, "These
(14:41):
hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of
the dead should assemble therein."
Yay, that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here.
And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgment and till
their appointed period, till the period appointed, till the great judgment comes upon them.
(15:05):
I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead and their voice went forth to heaven
and made suit.
Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me and I said unto him, "This spirit, whose
is it, whose voice goeth forth and make it suit?"
He answered me, saying, "This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother
(15:25):
came slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face
of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men."
Then I asked regarding it and regarding all the hollow places, why is one separated from
the other?
And he answered me and said unto me, "These three have been made that the spirits of the
(15:47):
dead might be separated, and such a division has been made for the spirits of the righteous,
in which there as the bright spring of water, and such has been made for sinners when they
die.
And are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed on them in their lifetime.
Here their spirit shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgment
(16:09):
and punishment and torment of those who curse forever and retribution for their spirits.
There he shall bond them forever, and such a division has been made for the spirits
of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction when they were
slain in the days of the sinners.
Which has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were
(16:32):
complete in transgression and of the transgressors.
They shall be companions, but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgment, nor
shall they be raised from thence.
Then I bless the Lord of glory and said, 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness,
who ruleth forever.'"
(16:53):
So we can see there that there was a sorting, that certain spirits that were basically what
we would classify as wicked were in one category, where you kind of had the idea of the righteous
dead somewhere else, and that they were divided by something, maybe overall they were kind
of understood to be in the same place, but that there were divisions within that place
(17:14):
for where they were and where they were holding.
So by New Testament times, there were a number of different views about the afterlife, the
resurrection, heaven, the righteous dead, and where people went when they died.
The Sadducees, for example, were a Jewish sect that we would probably today kind of compare
(17:37):
to deism, and they did not any notion of the resurrection of the dead in addition to angels
and demons.
And they believed there was no reward at any point for righteousness outside of this life.
The Pharisees believed the opposite.
First century believers were influenced by a number of factors, including pagan ideas
(17:59):
and Greek philosophy.
And the beliefs about the afterlife as a result were very complicated in the first century.
In the New Testament, Sheol is translated as "Hades," which once again refers to the
abode of the dead.
But remember as I just stated, this isn't cut and dry.
(18:20):
People questioned the role of righteousness, unrighteousness, and separateness, in particular
in the first century.
In response, there was a place for the righteous dead, known as Abraham's Bosom.
It is a mention only once in the New Testament in Luke 16:19-31.
(18:41):
And this is it is found in The Expanded Bible.
Jesus said, "There was a rich man who always dressed in the finest clothes, purple and fine
linen, and lived in luxury, or feasted sumptuously every day.
And a very poor man named Lazarus, whose body was covered with sores, was laid at the rich
man's gate.
(19:02):
He wanted longed to eat only the small pieces of food that fell, what fell from the rich man's
table.
And even the dogs would come in like his sores.
Dogs were viewed as despicable scavengers, not household pets.
Later, now it happened that Lazarus died, and the angels carried him to the arms of Abraham,
(19:22):
Abraham's side slashed bosom, the imagery of a banquet with Abraham's host and Lazarus
is honored guest.
The rich man died, too, and was buried in the place of the dead Hades.
He was in much pain or torment.
Looking up, lifting up his eyes, the rich man saw Abraham far away with Lazarus at his
(19:43):
side in his bosom.
He called, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me.
Send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool my tongue because I'm suffering an agony
in this fire."
But Abraham said, "Child, remember when you were alive, you had the good things in life,
bad things happened to Lazarus.
Now he is comforted here and you are suffering an agony."
(20:04):
Besides all this, there is a big pit, a great gulf or chasm set in place between you and
us, so no one can cross over to you, and no one can leave there and come here to us.
The rich man said, "Father, then please, I ask beg you to send Lazarus to my father's
house, for I have five brothers and Lazarus can warn them so that they will not come to
(20:26):
this place of pain, torment."
But Abraham said, "They have the law of Moses and the writings of the prophets, Moses and
the prophets.
Let them learn from, listen to them."
The rich man said, "No father, Abraham."
But if someone goes to them from the dead, they would believe and change their hearts and
lives.
Repent.
But Abraham said to him, "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not
(20:50):
listen to, be persuaded, be convinced by someone who comes back from the dead."
So the idea of Abraham's Bosom was kind of like a holding tank of heaven.
It was kind of like heaven adjacent and Sheol adjacent at the same time, where the righteous
dead awaited the coming of the Messiah to allow entry into paradise.
(21:12):
And it was seen as a place of comfort.
The belief itself seems to have emerged after the Second Temple period, and a reference
of which is found in the apocalypse of Zephaniah, verses 11 through 6.
And I also saw multitudes.
He brought them forth.
As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty saying,
(21:34):
we pray unto the unaccount of those who are in all these torments so that thou might
have mercy on all of them.
And when I saw them I said to the angel who spoke with me, "Who are these?"
He said, "These who besieged the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob."
Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel.
(21:55):
He sounded the trumpet up into heaven and another sounding upon the earth.
All the righteous hear this sound.
They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these
torments.
Some consider Abraham's Bosom equivalent with heaven, but it doesn't correlate with the
(22:15):
thought of people prior to the resurrection.
The resurrection is what changes our understanding of issues about the dead, eternal life,
and the afterlife.
And this is important even in our view of hell.
Abraham's bosom is important because it acknowledged the idea of life after death and that
the wicked and righteous do not share the same fate.
(22:37):
It also very, very clearly points out that those who are wicked, some form or another suffer.
There is something about it that divides the two, one into comfort and one into alienation
or suffering.
Gehenna was also used to refer to the graver hell in the New Testament, but it does so
(22:59):
with a very different imagery than previously introduced.
Gehenna was a reference to the Valley of Hinnom, a place right outside Jerusalem used
as a refuge dump where trash was burned.
Whatever was left became compost.
For example, Matthew 23:3, "You are snake serpents, a family of poisonous snakes, brood of
(23:23):
spring of vipers.
How are you going to escape God's judgment, the sentence, judgment, damnation of hell/gehenna?"
And then there is Mark 9:47-48.
If your eye causes you to sin, lose faith, stumble, take it out.
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes
(23:44):
and be thrown into hell, or Gehenna.
And hell the worm does not die, the fire is never put out.
So the use of this imagery was to parallel the abode of the dead and represent decomposition,
with purification by fire, which we also see in the imagery of Abraham's Bosom.
(24:06):
Now today people think the flames of hell represent torment, or like hell is the ultimate
old barbecue of eternity.
But the flames actually represent purification, from the wickedness of those who refuse to
repent in this lifetime.
Then there is the idea of the second death.
(24:28):
So you have got Revelation 20:14, and 21:8.
And in the New International Version they read, "Then death and hate each were thrown into
the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the second death."
And then Revelation 21:8, "but the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the
(24:50):
sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars, they will
be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
This is the second death."
So this is one that does not lead to eternal life, but to part of the ultimate purification
by which people will abide eternally, where God does not exist.
(25:15):
The torture is the absence of God, of complete and total alienation from God, by which they
will no longer be remembered.
The final reference in the New Testament is to Tatarus, which is found in
2 Peter 2:4.
And I'm reading from The Expanded Bible again.
(25:35):
For if when angels sinned God did not let them go free without punishment, spare them, but
they sent them to hell to Tatarus, a Greek term for the underworld, and put them in caves
of darkness where they are being held for judgment.
This passage parallels 1 Enoch 21:1-10.
And I proceeded to where things were chaotic, and I saw something they are horrible.
(25:59):
I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible,
and there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains in burning
with fire.
Then I said, "For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?"
Then said Uriel one of the holy angels who was with me, and was chief over them, and said,
(26:22):
"Enoch, why does thou ask, and why thou eager for the truth?
These are of the number of the stars of heaven which have transgressed the commandment of
the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years that time entailed by their sins are
consummated.
And from then I went to another place which was still more horrible than the former, and
(26:42):
I saw a horrible thing, a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft
as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire.
Neither its extent or magnitude could I see nor could I conjecture.
Then I said how fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon.
Yoreal answered me one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me, "Enoch, why
(27:06):
hast thou such fear and a fright, and I answered because of this fearful place and because
of the spectacle of the pain?"
And he said unto me, "This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned
forever."
While Tatarus never mentions humans, we can see from the other passage, it is definitely
referencing the same thing.
(27:28):
The most vivid imagery of Hell is found in the Spocalypse of Peter, of which I have an
excerpt.
And over against that place I saw another squallad, and it was the place of punishment, and
those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their rainment dark like the
air of the place.
And there were certain they were hanging by the tongue, and these were the blasphemers
(27:48):
of the way of righteousness, and under them lay fire burning and punishing them, and there
was a great lake full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness
and tormenting angels afflicted them.
And there were also others women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up, and
these were they who were dorn themselves for adultery, and the men who mingled with them
(28:11):
in the defilement of adultery were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire.
And I said I did not believe that I should come unto this place.
And I saw the murderers in those who conspired with them cast into a certain straight place,
full of evil snakes, and smitten by those beasts, and thus turning to and fro in that punishment,
(28:31):
and worms as it were clouds of darkness afflicted them.
And the souls of the murdered stood and looked upon the punishment of those murderers, and
said, "Oh God, thy judgment is just."
And near that place I saw another straight place into which the gore and the filth of those
who were being punished ran down, and became there as it were alike.
(28:53):
So I think that we get the point.
And what we can discern in putting this all together is that those who do Satan's work
find the same fate as him.
You can't expect to do wickedness and reap the same reward as the righteous because it's
not how it works.
And no, this is not about making mistakes so that everybody makes mistakes because everybody
does make mistakes.
(29:13):
This is more about the fact that some people just don't repent or learn from their mistakes,
and there's a result for that.
So just as there are levels of heaven, or understood to be like seven different levels
of heaven, there are different beliefs about various levels of hell.
Most are probably familiar with the non-levels of hell found in Dante's Infernal, which was
(29:37):
a fictional narration inspired by different beliefs about hell.
So those levels were limbo, lust, gluttony, avarice and prodigiality, wrath and sullenness, heresy,
violence, fraud, and treachery.
These exist for dramatic effect, a way to illustrate different punishments for sin.
(30:00):
But long before Dante, there were beliefs about different levels in hell.
Jewish Kabbalah mystics recognized seven levels or compartments of hell to copy those
seven levels of heaven.
So there's sheol, which is the underworld, hades or the grave.
There's abaddon, which relates to doom or perdition.
(30:20):
There's be'er shachat, which is a pit of corruption.
There's tit ha-Yaven, which is clinging mud, sha'are mavet, which is the gates of death,
Tzalmavet, which is the shadow of death, Gehinnom, which is the valley of Hinnom or Tartarus,
or purgatory.
(30:41):
So saying all this, what should you believe about hell?
Like I'm sure you're kind of sitting there wondering what should you believe about hell?
I think this is the bottom line of the whole thing, what should we believe about hell?
The first thing I feel gives credibility to the existence of hell is that Jesus talked
about it himself.
And if it wasn't something that was real, there was no reason for him to mention or bring
(31:02):
it up.
And the point as to why he brought it up wasn't to scare people, but to bring assurance,
to provide hope that even though it doesn't feel like there's much justice on this side
of life, there is such in the bigger scheme of existence.
In other words, ultimately those who choose to do Satan's bidding get what they deserve,
(31:24):
even if it doesn't happen in a way that we can see.
So teaching on hell served a dual purpose.
It reminded people that wickedness wouldn't last forever, and the wicked would get what was
coming to them.
And at the same time it was an encouragement in righteousness, not because people were afraid
to go to hell, but because hell gave them the reassurance that everything would eventually
(31:48):
turn out right.
Now hell might not be a ton of pyrotechnics with a guy in a red onesie with pointy ears and
a pitchfork hanging out, but it's definitely something that's real and serves a purpose beyond
what might seem obvious on the surface.
Many don't question the idea of paradise as biblical, so I'm not sure why we question the idea of
(32:09):
the counterpoint as such.
That doesn't make sense.
And while we all like the idea that everything will work out in the end, hell reminds us that
things working out doesn't mean everything will be the same for everyone.
Second, I think it's vitally important we remember there are consequences for actions.
The decisions we make, whether good or bad, aren't consequence-free.
(32:33):
And if we say that hey everything goes, everything is alright, we are missing some very important
things about God.
Because God does love us enough not to give us our way all the time.
He loves us enough to reward good and doesn't ask us to tolerate evil.
Today we fight in debate over the finer points of salvation, taking advantage of having
(32:55):
a Bible in print to argue about, but in ancient times people didn't have this luxury.
They relied on traditions, writings, legends, and ideas that they learn through cultural
exposure.
To say hell is unbiblical isn't true, maybe some of the imagery is questionable, but there
is a spiritual realm void of God, reserved for the devil and his angels, and the wicked who
(33:19):
can't pass judgment at some point in time.
I do hope that this podcast has been helpful to you, and if you'd like some resources for
some more information, I recommend my book, Understanding Demonology, Spiritual Warfare, Healing
and Deliverance:
A manual for the Christian minister.
That's Understanding Demonology, Spiritual Warfare, Healing, and Deliverance:
(33:42):
A Manual for the Christian Minister.
It is my best-selling book month after month.
There is not a month that goes by where I don't sell a copy.
You can get it on Amazon or wherever books are sold that is available in both paperback
and ebook format.
Look me up on Amazon, Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino, and all of my titles come up actually anywhere
where books are sold.
Look me up.
(34:02):
You will find something that will be an encouragement for you today or an educational
resource, whatever you're looking for.
There is something for everyone.
Also check out my patheos blog at patheos.com/blog/leadershiponfire.
That's patheos.com/blog/leadershiponfire for my blog, which is called Leadership on Fire.
(34:23):
We feature information that is of interest to leaders as well as those who are interested
in leadership, so go and check that out today.
Also, @kingdompowernow is what you want to find me all across social media, whether Facebook,
TikTok, Instagram, WordPress, and beyond.
Check me out @kingdompowernow.
I would love to have a conversation with you.
(34:45):
Let's start this dialogue that's getting things going.
I'd love to hear your feedback.
Reach out to me today @kingdompowernow.
If you're interested in learning more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel
free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org that's kingdompowernow.org.
If you would like a seminary that is entirely affordable and can be done from home and you
will use everything that you learn, check out "Apostolic University Seminary at apostolicuniversity.org."
(35:13):
That's apostolicuniversity.org.
And if you're in the Charlotte, North Carolina area and you would like some family because
family means nobody gets left behind.
Your found family is waiting for you at Sanctuary.
Visit welcomeinthisplace.org.
That's welcomeinthisplace.org for more information.
And if you have any questions that are not answered on our all-new site, feel free to reach
(35:35):
out and somebody will get back with you.
And this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing.
Hell gives us assurance for righteousness and it tells us ultimately that just because
we don't see it in front of us doesn't mean that the reward for the righteous is not
(35:55):
a real thing.
Until next time, be blessed.
Thank you for joining us on Kingdom Now.
I pray it proves to be a blessing in your life.
To learn more about this work, ask a question, submit feedback or a topic suggestion, advertise
(36:19):
on air or donate to this work.
Visit my website which contains essential information and links for other points of contact
around the web at ingdompowernow.org.
Also, if you are in our area and would like to visit Sanctuary International Fellowship
Tabernacle Sift, visit welcomeinthisplace.org."
Until next time, this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you that the Kingdom of God
(36:44):
is within you and that means the Kingdom is now.
[MUSIC]
[MUSIC]
(00:04):
Welcome to Kingdom Now, the podcast featuring Faith with an Edge,
as we celebrate the Kingdom of God within you.
I'm your host, Dr. Lee Ann Marino, apostle, author and theologian
and founder of Spitfire Apostolic Ministries and all the works that go along with it.
I'm excited to share this program with you.
(00:24):
As we explore the ins and outs of Counterculture Christianity,
present as you live out the Kingdom of God in your everyday life.
Want to learn more?
Visit my website at kingdompowernow.org.
And now, our program, which features a variety of formats here,
just for you.
Interviews, teaching and preaching proclaimed everywhere from my North Carolina
(00:47):
studio to Sanctuary and beyond, and powerful insights here for now.
As we turn the world upside down, everywhere we go.
[MUSIC]
[APPLAUSE]
(01:09):
Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Happy whatever time of day it is, wherever you are.
And to our listeners in Belarus, we say vitaju.
We hope that whatever time of day it is when you are listening that you are having a good one.
And I welcome you to this edition of the Kingdom Now podcast.
And I am your host, Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino here as the Spitfire,
(01:30):
serving as the voice of Counterculture Christianity, where we feature the theme of faith with an edge.
And if you'd like to learn more about the world of Counterculture Christianity,
feel free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org.
If you've clicked on this link, you're probably wondering what the hell?
While this episode is actually a listener request,
(01:50):
I was asked to do an episode all about hell, which I wasn't sure about initially,
but the more I thought about it, I said this might make for a very interesting episode.
And why?
Well, because using hell is some sort of tool to make people tow the mark.
Or making it a threat that someone is going to go there,
(02:13):
has given us a sense of hell as some sort of retaliatory thing.
And as a result, we don't really have a very good understanding of what hell is
or where the understanding of hell came from.
Within a lot of modern sensibilities, hell is often considered an offensive point,
(02:37):
or something to be dismissed as an outdated view.
In an often makes people very uncomfortable.
And I've even heard it described as toxic theology,
that is somehow designed to hurt people.
But all of these different ideas and different views really prove that we don't understand
(02:59):
the idea of hell, and we don't understand the reason why it exists in the first place.
And in that, we're so tempted to just start deciding what hell means,
that we don't know what it actually means.
And if we don't understand that, we aren't really going to be able to have a full view of
(03:20):
it, and we're going to be dismissive of the concept without really properly taking the
time to understand it, what it is, and why it's there.
So I'm hoping that I inspire a discussion and study into hell, and what it is versus what
it is not.
So maybe we can take some of the heat, and I do intend that, but out of hell.
(03:45):
So what is hell?
This is a loaded question that hopefully this episode will give insight into answering.
If we are to understand it properly, we have to understand other things first.
The first thing we need to recognize is that to understand hell, we have to first understand
(04:06):
two foundational things.
The first is that there is a God, and the second is that there is a spiritual enemy of God,
and the people of God known as Satan.
If someone doesn't believe in both of these things, they probably don't believe in hell
or think of spiritual things in the same way.
(04:27):
So if we acknowledge the existence of God, we start by recognizing that God is the creator
of all things, and that includes the things we see as well as the things we don't see.
Recognizing God exists everywhere at once, which is known as omnipresence.
With heaven, the place of eternity beyond the skies as His throne, or the seat of His
(04:53):
authority, it's kind of like a metaphorical throne.
The concept of hell is the idea of one specific place within the spiritual realm where God
doesn't exist.
Now I think it's a fair question to ask why would such a place exist?
Why is this singular place existing where God is not?
(05:17):
And the answer is simpler than we can imagine, and it's that hell was originally a thing for
the devil and his angels, a realm or a domain.
For those who don't know, Satan is the enemy of God.
The title Satan is ha-satan, and it literally means enemy.
And is a term applied both in the sense of an enemy in the Old Testament, and the larger
(05:41):
angelic enemy that is also known as Satan or the devil.
The theology goes that Satan was originally an archangel named Lucifer, and he was the
chief musician in heaven.
And he decided that he wanted to be God himself, so he wanted to put himself in the place of
God.
(06:02):
And when God wouldn't go for the idea, he was cast out of heaven with the third of the
angels who wanted to follow him.
Those angels became now what we know as demons, who do his bidding rather than being the
messengers of God's work.
This is the short version of all this stuff you can look it up and study it more in depth
(06:23):
if you like, in fact I would encourage it.
But of all this, what you essentially need to know is that all things Satanic, such as
hell, demons, etc.
Our counters to things in heaven, because heaven was their first, and hell is the inverse
of heaven's order.
(06:43):
So just like there are ranks and files of angels, there are also ranks and files of demons
that mirror and counter those in heaven.
Like for example, we know that there are archangels, well archangels are countered by
archdemons.
And so that would be an example of the way that basically hell kind of mirrors an evil
(07:05):
version of heaven.
But Satan is not restricted to hell.
Nor does he do most of his work from there.
For example, the book of Job speaks of Satan wandering to and fro in the earth.
Satan is not omnipresent nor omniscient.
He knows of events through the work of demons, and by roaming the earth looking to cause
(07:29):
trouble.
So in summary, hell is the dwelling place for Satan in his demons, and as we can see with
the way the afterlife is now understood, it is the place associated with wickedness.
I'm not for the sake of this going to get into the who goes to hell debate or discussion.
(07:50):
The truth is that I don't really know what determines that, and as the saying goes, I don't have
a heaven or a hell to put anyone in.
So it's not my call to give a list of things that sends someone there.
But I think if that's our focus, if our focus is on who goes down, we are using hell as a
(08:12):
weapon rather than embracing it for what it is, which is a fact.
If we don't want to spend eternity with God, he doesn't force us to do that.
And that's literally the teachable moment of hell for us all.
If we really, through our actions, our wickedness, our behavior make it clear that we don't
(08:33):
want to be with God, God doesn't make or force us to do it.
This might sound contrary to what you're used to hearing about it, but facts or facts,
because humanity has always sounded its own individualism.
It has always wanted its own free agency and even in our eternity where we desire to spend
it, God still gives us free choice.
(08:57):
It's not something that we threaten people with, it's something people choose for themselves.
And before we do the "oh, who could reject God" thing, which is typically what universalist
answer in contrast, I think that's a very naive perspective to have, if an angel would
do it a human would as well.
Because there's no telling the thinking of someone in that situation.
(09:21):
But hell ultimately reminds us there are consequences for actions as well as consequences
for choices, and we can't get away from that.
Yes, hell has been used wrong throughout the years, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
But it does mean we take the time and we learn some more about it.
So let's talk about the idea of hell in the afterlife.
(09:43):
Because with most spiritual realities, the evolution of hell and the abode of the dead have had
different influences at different points in history.
It's also not as simple to explain or describe as many try to do when they study the Bible.
So paradise typically refers to heaven or the transformed heavens and earth at the end
(10:05):
of time.
And let's look at a couple of Bible passages that kind of express this.
So Luke 23:43, Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise."
Okay, so that's a reference to heaven or to paradise basically kind of beyond this world.
(10:27):
Second Corinthians 12:3-4, and I'm reading from the New International Version
for those who are interested.
Says, "And I know that this man, whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know,
what God knows, was caught up to paradise and hurt inexpressible things, things that no
one is permitted to tell."
And the Apostle Paul was talking about himself and a particular vision of heaven that he
(10:51):
had at some point in time in his ministry.
And then there's Revelation 2:7, "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to
the churches, to the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree
of life, which is in the paradise of God."
So the idea of heaven or the transformed heaven or paradise are described often similarly
(11:15):
because the divisions of time and space as we now know it won't exist then.
Descriptions of hell, the abode of the dead, and the afterlife aren't always quite as
clear.
It's evident beliefs about the afterlife have changed over time.
Actually, a lot of what we understand kind of on the side about hell isn't found in the
(11:40):
Bible specifically, but the Bible's passages about hell make a lot more sense with the apocryphal
editions about hell included.
I know a lot of people have different feelings about the apocryphal, but no matter what
you think they can fill in a lot of informational gaps about information and culture and detail
(12:00):
that we need to be informed about what things mean.
The promise of eternal life has always been within the heart of God, but it wasn't only
something people understood or had much insight into figuring out.
It's also important to say that what people might have believed might have varied from
(12:22):
even one another, as the insights one had into hell and into the afterlife in general often
came through revelation, thus people might have had different thoughts about the afterlife.
The term hell was originally a reference to the place of the dead or the abode of the
(12:43):
dead within Old English terminology.
Among the ancient Hebrews, the earliest beliefs were that there was no afterlife.
If someone was dead, they were considered to be dead, because the ultimate punishment for
sin was seen as being death itself.
(13:04):
Immortality was achieved through family lineage, thus the emphasis that existed on procreation.
Later, we see the term "sheol" which literally meant "place of the dead."
And the souls were there awaiting resurrection, kind of as a temporary holding place.
(13:25):
No one knew how long they'd be there or how it would all work out, but nobody believed
that the grave or the idea of the grave was going to be a permanent thing.
Because God was associated with life, and the grave was associated with death, the grave
was understood to be the one place God did not dwell, because death was considered a separation
(13:50):
from God.
But even early in time, there was the understanding that the righteous and the wicked didn't have
the exact same fate.
This can be seen in a passage from the book of Enoch, which for the record does predate
New Testament times.
And I'm going to be reading from 1 Enoch, chapter 22, verses 1 through 14.
(14:16):
And then so I went to another place, and he showed me in the west another great and high
mountain of hard rock.
There was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth.
How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at?
Even Raphael answered one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto me, "These
(14:41):
hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of
the dead should assemble therein."
Yay, that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here.
And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgment and till
their appointed period, till the period appointed, till the great judgment comes upon them.
(15:05):
I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead and their voice went forth to heaven
and made suit.
Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me and I said unto him, "This spirit, whose
is it, whose voice goeth forth and make it suit?"
He answered me, saying, "This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother
(15:25):
came slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face
of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men."
Then I asked regarding it and regarding all the hollow places, why is one separated from
the other?
And he answered me and said unto me, "These three have been made that the spirits of the
(15:47):
dead might be separated, and such a division has been made for the spirits of the righteous,
in which there as the bright spring of water, and such has been made for sinners when they
die.
And are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed on them in their lifetime.
Here their spirit shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgment
(16:09):
and punishment and torment of those who curse forever and retribution for their spirits.
There he shall bond them forever, and such a division has been made for the spirits
of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction when they were
slain in the days of the sinners.
Which has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were
(16:32):
complete in transgression and of the transgressors.
They shall be companions, but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgment, nor
shall they be raised from thence.
Then I bless the Lord of glory and said, 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness,
who ruleth forever.'"
(16:53):
So we can see there that there was a sorting, that certain spirits that were basically what
we would classify as wicked were in one category, where you kind of had the idea of the righteous
dead somewhere else, and that they were divided by something, maybe overall they were kind
of understood to be in the same place, but that there were divisions within that place
(17:14):
for where they were and where they were holding.
So by New Testament times, there were a number of different views about the afterlife, the
resurrection, heaven, the righteous dead, and where people went when they died.
The Sadducees, for example, were a Jewish sect that we would probably today kind of compare
(17:37):
to deism, and they did not any notion of the resurrection of the dead in addition to angels
and demons.
And they believed there was no reward at any point for righteousness outside of this life.
The Pharisees believed the opposite.
First century believers were influenced by a number of factors, including pagan ideas
(17:59):
and Greek philosophy.
And the beliefs about the afterlife as a result were very complicated in the first century.
In the New Testament, Sheol is translated as "Hades," which once again refers to the
abode of the dead.
But remember as I just stated, this isn't cut and dry.
(18:20):
People questioned the role of righteousness, unrighteousness, and separateness, in particular
in the first century.
In response, there was a place for the righteous dead, known as Abraham's Bosom.
It is a mention only once in the New Testament in Luke 16:19-31.
(18:41):
And this is it is found in The Expanded Bible.
Jesus said, "There was a rich man who always dressed in the finest clothes, purple and fine
linen, and lived in luxury, or feasted sumptuously every day.
And a very poor man named Lazarus, whose body was covered with sores, was laid at the rich
man's gate.
(19:02):
He wanted longed to eat only the small pieces of food that fell, what fell from the rich man's
table.
And even the dogs would come in like his sores.
Dogs were viewed as despicable scavengers, not household pets.
Later, now it happened that Lazarus died, and the angels carried him to the arms of Abraham,
(19:22):
Abraham's side slashed bosom, the imagery of a banquet with Abraham's host and Lazarus
is honored guest.
The rich man died, too, and was buried in the place of the dead Hades.
He was in much pain or torment.
Looking up, lifting up his eyes, the rich man saw Abraham far away with Lazarus at his
(19:43):
side in his bosom.
He called, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me.
Send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool my tongue because I'm suffering an agony
in this fire."
But Abraham said, "Child, remember when you were alive, you had the good things in life,
bad things happened to Lazarus.
Now he is comforted here and you are suffering an agony."
(20:04):
Besides all this, there is a big pit, a great gulf or chasm set in place between you and
us, so no one can cross over to you, and no one can leave there and come here to us.
The rich man said, "Father, then please, I ask beg you to send Lazarus to my father's
house, for I have five brothers and Lazarus can warn them so that they will not come to
(20:26):
this place of pain, torment."
But Abraham said, "They have the law of Moses and the writings of the prophets, Moses and
the prophets.
Let them learn from, listen to them."
The rich man said, "No father, Abraham."
But if someone goes to them from the dead, they would believe and change their hearts and
lives.
Repent.
But Abraham said to him, "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not
(20:50):
listen to, be persuaded, be convinced by someone who comes back from the dead."
So the idea of Abraham's Bosom was kind of like a holding tank of heaven.
It was kind of like heaven adjacent and Sheol adjacent at the same time, where the righteous
dead awaited the coming of the Messiah to allow entry into paradise.
(21:12):
And it was seen as a place of comfort.
The belief itself seems to have emerged after the Second Temple period, and a reference
of which is found in the apocalypse of Zephaniah, verses 11 through 6.
And I also saw multitudes.
He brought them forth.
As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty saying,
(21:34):
we pray unto the unaccount of those who are in all these torments so that thou might
have mercy on all of them.
And when I saw them I said to the angel who spoke with me, "Who are these?"
He said, "These who besieged the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob."
Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel.
(21:55):
He sounded the trumpet up into heaven and another sounding upon the earth.
All the righteous hear this sound.
They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these
torments.
Some consider Abraham's Bosom equivalent with heaven, but it doesn't correlate with the
(22:15):
thought of people prior to the resurrection.
The resurrection is what changes our understanding of issues about the dead, eternal life,
and the afterlife.
And this is important even in our view of hell.
Abraham's bosom is important because it acknowledged the idea of life after death and that
the wicked and righteous do not share the same fate.
(22:37):
It also very, very clearly points out that those who are wicked, some form or another suffer.
There is something about it that divides the two, one into comfort and one into alienation
or suffering.
Gehenna was also used to refer to the graver hell in the New Testament, but it does so
(22:59):
with a very different imagery than previously introduced.
Gehenna was a reference to the Valley of Hinnom, a place right outside Jerusalem used
as a refuge dump where trash was burned.
Whatever was left became compost.
For example, Matthew 23:3, "You are snake serpents, a family of poisonous snakes, brood of
(23:23):
spring of vipers.
How are you going to escape God's judgment, the sentence, judgment, damnation of hell/gehenna?"
And then there is Mark 9:47-48.
If your eye causes you to sin, lose faith, stumble, take it out.
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes
(23:44):
and be thrown into hell, or Gehenna.
And hell the worm does not die, the fire is never put out.
So the use of this imagery was to parallel the abode of the dead and represent decomposition,
with purification by fire, which we also see in the imagery of Abraham's Bosom.
(24:06):
Now today people think the flames of hell represent torment, or like hell is the ultimate
old barbecue of eternity.
But the flames actually represent purification, from the wickedness of those who refuse to
repent in this lifetime.
Then there is the idea of the second death.
(24:28):
So you have got Revelation 20:14, and 21:8.
And in the New International Version they read, "Then death and hate each were thrown into
the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is the second death."
And then Revelation 21:8, "but the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the
(24:50):
sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars, they will
be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
This is the second death."
So this is one that does not lead to eternal life, but to part of the ultimate purification
by which people will abide eternally, where God does not exist.
(25:15):
The torture is the absence of God, of complete and total alienation from God, by which they
will no longer be remembered.
The final reference in the New Testament is to Tatarus, which is found in
2 Peter 2:4.
And I'm reading from The Expanded Bible again.
(25:35):
For if when angels sinned God did not let them go free without punishment, spare them, but
they sent them to hell to Tatarus, a Greek term for the underworld, and put them in caves
of darkness where they are being held for judgment.
This passage parallels 1 Enoch 21:1-10.
And I proceeded to where things were chaotic, and I saw something they are horrible.
(25:59):
I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible,
and there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains in burning
with fire.
Then I said, "For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?"
Then said Uriel one of the holy angels who was with me, and was chief over them, and said,
(26:22):
"Enoch, why does thou ask, and why thou eager for the truth?
These are of the number of the stars of heaven which have transgressed the commandment of
the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years that time entailed by their sins are
consummated.
And from then I went to another place which was still more horrible than the former, and
(26:42):
I saw a horrible thing, a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft
as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire.
Neither its extent or magnitude could I see nor could I conjecture.
Then I said how fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon.
Yoreal answered me one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me, "Enoch, why
(27:06):
hast thou such fear and a fright, and I answered because of this fearful place and because
of the spectacle of the pain?"
And he said unto me, "This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned
forever."
While Tatarus never mentions humans, we can see from the other passage, it is definitely
referencing the same thing.
(27:28):
The most vivid imagery of Hell is found in the Spocalypse of Peter, of which I have an
excerpt.
And over against that place I saw another squallad, and it was the place of punishment, and
those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their rainment dark like the
air of the place.
And there were certain they were hanging by the tongue, and these were the blasphemers
(27:48):
of the way of righteousness, and under them lay fire burning and punishing them, and there
was a great lake full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness
and tormenting angels afflicted them.
And there were also others women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up, and
these were they who were dorn themselves for adultery, and the men who mingled with them
(28:11):
in the defilement of adultery were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire.
And I said I did not believe that I should come unto this place.
And I saw the murderers in those who conspired with them cast into a certain straight place,
full of evil snakes, and smitten by those beasts, and thus turning to and fro in that punishment,
(28:31):
and worms as it were clouds of darkness afflicted them.
And the souls of the murdered stood and looked upon the punishment of those murderers, and
said, "Oh God, thy judgment is just."
And near that place I saw another straight place into which the gore and the filth of those
who were being punished ran down, and became there as it were alike.
(28:53):
So I think that we get the point.
And what we can discern in putting this all together is that those who do Satan's work
find the same fate as him.
You can't expect to do wickedness and reap the same reward as the righteous because it's
not how it works.
And no, this is not about making mistakes so that everybody makes mistakes because everybody
does make mistakes.
(29:13):
This is more about the fact that some people just don't repent or learn from their mistakes,
and there's a result for that.
So just as there are levels of heaven, or understood to be like seven different levels
of heaven, there are different beliefs about various levels of hell.
Most are probably familiar with the non-levels of hell found in Dante's Infernal, which was
(29:37):
a fictional narration inspired by different beliefs about hell.
So those levels were limbo, lust, gluttony, avarice and prodigiality, wrath and sullenness, heresy,
violence, fraud, and treachery.
These exist for dramatic effect, a way to illustrate different punishments for sin.
(30:00):
But long before Dante, there were beliefs about different levels in hell.
Jewish Kabbalah mystics recognized seven levels or compartments of hell to copy those
seven levels of heaven.
So there's sheol, which is the underworld, hades or the grave.
There's abaddon, which relates to doom or perdition.
(30:20):
There's be'er shachat, which is a pit of corruption.
There's tit ha-Yaven, which is clinging mud, sha'are mavet, which is the gates of death,
Tzalmavet, which is the shadow of death, Gehinnom, which is the valley of Hinnom or Tartarus,
or purgatory.
(30:41):
So saying all this, what should you believe about hell?
Like I'm sure you're kind of sitting there wondering what should you believe about hell?
I think this is the bottom line of the whole thing, what should we believe about hell?
The first thing I feel gives credibility to the existence of hell is that Jesus talked
about it himself.
And if it wasn't something that was real, there was no reason for him to mention or bring
(31:02):
it up.
And the point as to why he brought it up wasn't to scare people, but to bring assurance,
to provide hope that even though it doesn't feel like there's much justice on this side
of life, there is such in the bigger scheme of existence.
In other words, ultimately those who choose to do Satan's bidding get what they deserve,
(31:24):
even if it doesn't happen in a way that we can see.
So teaching on hell served a dual purpose.
It reminded people that wickedness wouldn't last forever, and the wicked would get what was
coming to them.
And at the same time it was an encouragement in righteousness, not because people were afraid
to go to hell, but because hell gave them the reassurance that everything would eventually
(31:48):
turn out right.
Now hell might not be a ton of pyrotechnics with a guy in a red onesie with pointy ears and
a pitchfork hanging out, but it's definitely something that's real and serves a purpose beyond
what might seem obvious on the surface.
Many don't question the idea of paradise as biblical, so I'm not sure why we question the idea of
(32:09):
the counterpoint as such.
That doesn't make sense.
And while we all like the idea that everything will work out in the end, hell reminds us that
things working out doesn't mean everything will be the same for everyone.
Second, I think it's vitally important we remember there are consequences for actions.
The decisions we make, whether good or bad, aren't consequence-free.
(32:33):
And if we say that hey everything goes, everything is alright, we are missing some very important
things about God.
Because God does love us enough not to give us our way all the time.
He loves us enough to reward good and doesn't ask us to tolerate evil.
Today we fight in debate over the finer points of salvation, taking advantage of having
(32:55):
a Bible in print to argue about, but in ancient times people didn't have this luxury.
They relied on traditions, writings, legends, and ideas that they learn through cultural
exposure.
To say hell is unbiblical isn't true, maybe some of the imagery is questionable, but there
is a spiritual realm void of God, reserved for the devil and his angels, and the wicked who
(33:19):
can't pass judgment at some point in time.
I do hope that this podcast has been helpful to you, and if you'd like some resources for
some more information, I recommend my book, Understanding Demonology, Spiritual Warfare, Healing
and Deliverance:
A manual for the Christian minister.
That's Understanding Demonology, Spiritual Warfare, Healing, and Deliverance:
(33:42):
A Manual for the Christian Minister.
It is my best-selling book month after month.
There is not a month that goes by where I don't sell a copy.
You can get it on Amazon or wherever books are sold that is available in both paperback
and ebook format.
Look me up on Amazon, Dr. Lee Ann B. Marino, and all of my titles come up actually anywhere
where books are sold.
Look me up.
(34:02):
You will find something that will be an encouragement for you today or an educational
resource, whatever you're looking for.
There is something for everyone.
Also check out my patheos blog at patheos.com/blog/leadershiponfire.
That's patheos.com/blog/leadershiponfire for my blog, which is called Leadership on Fire.
(34:23):
We feature information that is of interest to leaders as well as those who are interested
in leadership, so go and check that out today.
Also, @kingdompowernow is what you want to find me all across social media, whether Facebook,
TikTok, Instagram, WordPress, and beyond.
Check me out @kingdompowernow.
I would love to have a conversation with you.
(34:45):
Let's start this dialogue that's getting things going.
I'd love to hear your feedback.
Reach out to me today @kingdompowernow.
If you're interested in learning more about the world of counterculture Christianity, feel
free to visit my website at kingdompowernow.org that's kingdompowernow.org.
If you would like a seminary that is entirely affordable and can be done from home and you
will use everything that you learn, check out "Apostolic University Seminary at apostolicuniversity.org."
(35:13):
That's apostolicuniversity.org.
And if you're in the Charlotte, North Carolina area and you would like some family because
family means nobody gets left behind.
Your found family is waiting for you at Sanctuary.
Visit welcomeinthisplace.org.
That's welcomeinthisplace.org for more information.
And if you have any questions that are not answered on our all-new site, feel free to reach
(35:35):
out and somebody will get back with you.
And this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you in closing.
Hell gives us assurance for righteousness and it tells us ultimately that just because
we don't see it in front of us doesn't mean that the reward for the righteous is not
(35:55):
a real thing.
Until next time, be blessed.
Thank you for joining us on Kingdom Now.
I pray it proves to be a blessing in your life.
To learn more about this work, ask a question, submit feedback or a topic suggestion, advertise
(36:19):
on air or donate to this work.
Visit my website which contains essential information and links for other points of contact
around the web at ingdompowernow.org.
Also, if you are in our area and would like to visit Sanctuary International Fellowship
Tabernacle Sift, visit welcomeinthisplace.org."
Until next time, this is Apostle Dr. Lee Ann Marino reminding you that the Kingdom of God
(36:44):
is within you and that means the Kingdom is now.
[MUSIC]
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!