Kink Education, Neurospiciness, Blood Play, and More

Trigger warnings: Trauma and self harm

What happens when past trauma transforms into empowered pleasure? In this deeply moving conversation with Talis, founder of Beyond Taboo, we explore the complex journey from self-harm to healing through consensual BDSM practices.

Talis brings a unique perspective as both a dominant who wears a collar and a clinical sexology student with a psychology background. They share their evolution in kink, from problematic beginnings at 18 to becoming an educator passionate about consent and community safety. "We put ourselves in very vulnerable positions, doing things that normal people can get into legal trouble for," Talis explains, highlighting why accountability matters so deeply in kink spaces.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when we discuss blood play as trauma recovery. Talis eloquently describes how practices once associated with self-harm can be reclaimed through consensual play: "Blood doesn't have to mean harm anymore. It can mean connection, control, devotion, beauty, and erotic power." We explore the neurochemistry behind these experiences and how they provide healing for neurodivergent individuals specifically.

For those new to kink, Talis offers practical advice about attending munches, researching consent models, and finding supportive community members. We also discuss creating more inclusive play spaces with sensory considerations and crisis support protocols, recognizing that accessibility means different things to different bodies and minds.

Talis’s bio:

They are a “neuro-spicy” disabled veteran with a B.S. in Psychology and over a decade in the kink community, with an emphasis on healing trauma through responsible practice of BDSM, Talis brings a unique perspective, commitment to continuous learning, and passion to their work. Currently offering consulting and mentorship services, Talis is a Sex Coach/Clinical Sexologist in Training under Dr. Patti Britton’s method. They are a research volunteer for TASHRA under Dr. Richard Sprott, a pioneer of the scientific world in destigmatizing kink and educating about its benefits. 

Key Topics:

• How Talis identifies within the BDSM community
• Pressures of being a kink educator
• Why neurospicy folks are drawn to this lifestyle
• Play frenzy and tips for managing it
• What makes a great kinky party
• How to make dungeons more inclusive and accessible
• Funniest story from an event
• Sharing of blood play fantasies and hopes for future scenes
• Advice we wish we had when we started engaging with sharps
• Transforming trauma into positive experiences

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Miss McKenzie and I'm Parker Lee, and we are
the Ganja Goddesses.
Get ready to laugh, learn andjumpstart your libido in the
Kink Intimacy and CannabisLounge.

(00:22):
We are salacious, eccentric,blunt and totally unfiltered.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
You have been warned For more information visit our
website or connect with us onsocial media.
Our links will be in the shownotes.
Due to the nature of thisprogram, it is not suitable for
children under 18.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Welcome, welcome back all of our lovely, lovely,
lovely listeners.
I know it's been a little while, but we're back with a very
exciting episode.
We have an amazing guest, talis.

(01:06):
Do you want to give us a littlebit about?

Speaker 3 (01:07):
your information and get people excited to hear from
you.
Yes, I'm going to say educationand people are going to run
screaming.
So I am Virginia-based.
I have been in Hampton Roadskink community since about 2019.

(01:31):
I have been in the kinklifestyle in general for about
15 years, since I was 18.
I also own a company calledBeyond Taboo and in the company
I am currently serving as a sexand intimacy and BDSM consultant
guide mentor.
Even though I kind of just likeusing that word, the more I use
it, the less I like it, Irealized that at my age and my

(01:52):
experience level, it just itdoesn't.
I don't like how it sounds, itdoesn't fit, that's OK.
It doesn't quite fit.
You know those are really bigshoes to fill.
But I have a bachelor's inpsychology.
It's a bs um.
I came from actually anengineering background, a navy
engineering background.
Specifically, I was a nuclearreactor operator and this is a

(02:16):
midlife drastic career shift forme into something that makes me
happy and hopefully yes.
So I'm working on acertification to become a
clinical sexologist and a sexcoach, um, and after that I'm
hoping to work on my phd.
So it'll be a clinical sexologyphd with a focus on bdsm and

(02:39):
potentially another subspecialtyI'm considering disability,
because I'm a disabled veteran,so I am non-binary they them.
I'm currently listed as akink-aware professional in a
process of applying andhopefully getting approved to be
a coalition partner for theNCSF.

(03:01):
That way I can be a goodresource to my community.
Consent is a very hot topic inour community and consent
violations, and I would like tobe somebody that can kind of
clarify the process and providethe right resources.
Let's see what else.
So I also offer what I callconcierge services through

(03:25):
Beyond Taboo.
I enjoy helping people puttogether their dynamics.
So, whether it's you knowwriting contracts, helping
mediate, negotiate, anythingfrom just a scene to full-on
dynamic and, you know, helpingpeople write out protocols, uh,

(03:45):
ceremonies, anything, soanything people might need a
hand with because, let's face it, that process can be
overwhelming.
You get on Etsy, you findbajillion printables for the
same thing and, um, uh, let'ssee what else.
So, um, I'm brand new to beinga kink community educator.

(04:07):
Um, I would say I started inabout January, february, um, and
welcome to the group.
Thank you, yes, no, I've noticed.
You know, I thought I found mytribe in kink and then I
realized that I found, like mygroup of people, my subgroup of
people in the educator community.
The second, I met, devinactually.

(04:28):
So Devin and I met in kind of afunny way and he gave me kind
of the reality of what being aneducator is actually like and
then it clicked and I know thisis something I'm supposed to do.
So right now, again, I'mfocused on getting my education

(04:49):
and, uh, scaling up my businessto where I can do this and I can
have time to, you know, helpout my community and educate and
, um, yeah, I love that yeah.
Long story, long that's okay,that's okay, welcome.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Welcome, we're so glad to have you here.
I know I have a bunch ofquestions for you, you do a
bunch of things.
I know I found you through theDom Sub Summit and we connected
through that.
What is your role in the kinklifestyle?

(05:27):
How do you?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
identify.
Oh so okay, this is one of myfavorite questions, because not
a lot of people ask me, but alot of people assume yeah, so my
very first year in the kinkcommunity was spent on the
submissive side.
It started off with.
It did not start off the way itshould have.

(05:48):
I'll put it this way I know wedidn't do any content warning so
I'm not going to go intodetails, but that's okay, this
is our podcast.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
We like to say is very, very free and casual, and
that's why a lot of times, likeyou know, we don't edit.
We want it to just be likenatural.
So, whatever you feelcomfortable saying, we can
always have trigger warnings inthe show notes.

(06:16):
Oh, okay, perfect.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's good to know.
Okay, so, yeah.
So my first, very first sceneas an 18-year-old baby, I
started out with a bottle ofwine and no negotiation and a
heavy flogging and a massage andall kinds of things that I did
not agree to but I feltpressured to do because the
person was somebody well-knownin the kink community and, you

(06:40):
know, I wanted to learn.
I was so just fascinated bythis world and I have to say I
learned a lot, but also learnedwhat not to do and I had some
interesting doors.
Yeah, I had some interestingdoors open for me, interesting
opportunities, but that is whereI learned the not so good side

(07:00):
of kink, because I transitionedinto doing pro work, which
between 18 and 21,.
You know, you don't know enoughto do that kind of thing, but
you know, I know I did it.
Yeah, so, so you can really,you know, and and it was funny,
because this is where I learnedhow to talk shit for humiliation
and degradation scenes, becauseit was coming from an actual
place of hurt and anger.

(07:21):
Yeah, that makes sense, yeah, soit made it really easy.
Luckily I had people come to methat really wanted that kind of
stuff, so our goals kind ofaligned.
But I got to see that side andso after that I've always
identified as dominant.
I had a lot of trauma that kindof prevented me from ever
wanting to switch for anyone, ofprevented me from ever wanting

(07:44):
to switch for anyone.
And right now I am not a switch, but I'm still a dominant that
wears a collar.
I switch for one person that ismy husband, and the way we
usually explain it right this iswhere I get into the psychology
is my brain.
But here is, you know, sosubmissives get to go through

(08:06):
the process of something liketrauma play, for example, to
deal with, you know, mentalhealth concerns and stuff.
Dominants a lot of the time,while they get their own
satisfaction out of the process,they're still in a caretaker
role.
They're still in thatresponsible role.
And I think that if you're adominant that still has certain

(08:27):
unhealed traumas, it is good andit could be very beneficial for
you to have somebody that youfeel comfortable switching for.
So you also get your turn andyou know, just like people in
high power, stressful jobs, cometo a pro dom and want you know,
to be humiliated and degradedand told what to do.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
To balance out their life.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Absolutely yeah, and I love that and it's a fun
challenge.
And I have this theory that Ireally want to explore further,
because I've noticed between meand a couple of other dominants
that kind of do the same thing.
We all ended up in a caretakerdynamic, but we don't identify
as littles, we don't do age play, but our dominants are daddy

(09:11):
and they're very, very muchdaddy with a little bit of
structure.
But that seems to have helpedme heal my inner child and you
know that, combined with anactual healthy marriage and
healthy relationship.
So with this community here,interestingly enough, when I go
out in public because my husbandrelaxes the protocol so much he

(09:37):
treats me as an equal in publicMost people automatically
assume I'm a dominant Plus.
You know I have this RBF, theRBF for layoffs will
automatically assume I'm adominant Plus.
You know I have this RBF, theRBF really helps, you know.
And then, yeah, sometimes youknow they see the color, they
see us playing, and then thequestions come.
So that's kind of that's kindof my explanation.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay, all right.
Well, I'm so sorry thathappened to you.
We both know those kind ofthings and what that's like, and
that's also why we do what wedo, because I don't ever want
anyone to go through any of thethings that we went through in
sort of the beginning of ourjourneys and no negotiations and

(10:21):
a lot of unhealthy choices andlike really not even being
informed about risks orliterally anything.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Oh no, there's no conversation about consent,
which is funny because right now, the first classes that I'm
teaching right now are consent,and so I've had consent like
beat into me.
We did a consent roundtablethat I moderated last night, so
consent is the hot topic andabsolutely yeah, there was no
discussion, and without withoutreally calling out the person,

(10:50):
because I'm not going to be thatperson but, um, I didn't
realize until years later howwell known they were, until I
heard them on a very well-knownpodcast episode and I wrote them
an email.
I could I, just I could notkeep quiet.
I wrote them an email and Icould.
I, just I could not keep quiet.
I wrote them an email and I waslike, hey, I love you guys.
You guys are amazing.
This is, this is what thisperson did and this is what they

(11:11):
do.
And I never heard back.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh no, that makes me so upset, it was very hard when
people enable our um our leadersand leaders to be in that
position.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
They abuse it and it's sad when organizations or
podcasts or anybody doesn't liketake what you say seriously.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, it's a positional privilege which you
know, in our community.
So our arcane community here isgoing through a lot of growing
pains and we're doing so muchbetter than we were a few years
ago.

(12:07):
But one of the things that we'vedefinitely had to grow through
and that we're kind ofrecovering from now and finding
different systems and strategiesto kind of get past is the fact
we had leaders that were notnecessarily held accountable all
the time, people that nobodyknew they were doing things that
they shouldn't be doing, andyou know the model citizens.
So one of the things to reallythink about a lot is, you know,
is focusing on the community,policing themselves and holding
each other accountable and justtaking care of each other.

(12:30):
And that's one of my goals too,is to make sure that you know
people are safe and we don'thave predators that come into
this community because it's soeasy to take advantage of people
in vulnerable positions.
Absolutely, and, you know, eventhough we operate on consent,
you know we do everything tomitigate risk.

(12:50):
At the same time we do putourselves in very vulnerable
positions, doing things that youknow normal people can get into
legal trouble for.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
It sucks because I feel like, specifically with
organizations and things likethat, they are so money driven
that they'd rather have themoney than say you can't come to
an event or you know, or we'renot going to have this person as
an educator or something likethat.
I feel like when that happens,it's just it's all about money.

(13:25):
And it sucks because we can'thave, you know, police in our
business and so we have to sellpolice, like you said, and
unfortunately, some people,especially people that are, you
know, organizers of events, it'slike they don't care.
They don't care, and it'sreally sad.

(13:48):
I think we should holdeducators and leaders to a whole
nother like another standardthan acting just like a regular
kinkster, because we have, youknow, there's a lot of power
that we hold in telling people,you know, like we get people
that are brand new, completelynewbies, all this stuff that

(14:09):
like really need to be protected, and it's sad.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
They're not, unfortunately, absolutely, and I
actually so me being theneurodivergent nerd that I am
and I develop all the newspecial interests.
Neurodivergent nerd that I am,and I develop all the new
special interests.
So I actually adopted the KECCcode of conduct for kink
educators that I got from thecreating captivating classes
book that was written by LeeHarrington Midori.

(14:36):
It was like a whole group ofwonderful people that.
I know you're familiar withbecause you presented with a
bunch of them at Domstamp Living, know you're familiar with
because you presented with abunch of them at Domstamp Living
and yeah, so I adopted thatcode.
I have it posted on my website.
I am, as a new educator, doingmy best to get familiar with it
and uphold it.

(14:56):
I'm by no means perfect, butsomething you said though I
thought was interesting is youdid say yes, like there is a
much higher standard that wehave to be held to, and
something that I talked aboutwith another educator is how we
are held to such a high standardand put on such a pedestal but
then, when it comes down to it,we're not treated as well as.

(15:22):
I guess that kind of positionwould you you think would come
with.
You know it's.
Um, I guess one of thechallenges I was told being an
educator is you know people arelike, yeah, you're like sleeping
in a crappy hotel room you'repaying for like your own, your
own bus ticket to get there.
You're paying, you know, foreverything for the class, but
it's all for a good cause.
But then you go up and allthese people are looking at you

(15:46):
and they're putting you up hereand I have noticed that
difference because, you know,I've always been the kind of
person that kind of gets alongwith everybody.
I never really had any drama inthe community and stepping into
educator shoes there'sdefinitely I don't want to say
like a target on my back itsounds very dramatic but

(16:06):
definitely some differentattitudes and people that were
previously very nice.
I definitely got to see somedifferent colors and not
everybody understanding, youknow, like, let's say, new
educator, not everybody beingvery patient with.
Hey, we might've had, you know,first time class technical
difficulties.
Neurodivergence took over.

(16:27):
Oh no, oh, my first class was adisaster.
It was absolutely just a showdisaster.
But we recovered.
We recorded.
I recorded the class.
I made sure that a webinarversion was available, took all
the criticism.
I had a few people that werejust amazing at reaching out to
me, email over, you know, phoneZoom and giving me very, very

(16:53):
straightforward critiques, and Ilove that shit.
You know, like I, betweenmilitary experience and the way
I was raised, like there'snothing you can really say to me
, that's going to hurt myfeelings worse than I can hurt
my own feelings.
You'd rather much straightgiven straight.
Yeah, because that means, thatsomebody cares yeah for sure you
know and but then again youknow a person can't just come to

(17:15):
you with a problem and like notgive you a solution, because
then they're just criticizingand bitching.
But everybody has come to mewith great solutions.
So my second educational wasmuch more comfortable.
I'm still waiting on mycritique.
The person whose group I ran itfor is the second woman in my

(17:38):
life that I've ever met.
That actually scares me alittle bit.
So I'm very, very curious tohear what she'll have to say.
But I know whatever she'll haveto say will be good and I'll
learn from it.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
I love that no.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Any questions you want to ask no, no, okay, not
right now.
Okay, I'm the shy one.
Well, what advice would yougive a neurodivergent person
who's new to kink and feelingoverwhelmed or unsure of where
to start?
Things like that, becausethere's such a huge overlap with

(18:12):
neurodivergence and kinkcommunity.
It's so big that I'm wonderingif you have any advice yourself
yourself.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Well, yes, I would say and this is kind of based on
my recent experience ofintroducing somebody
neurodivergent, very, very brandnew to kink into the community
and having to figure out a planfor them is go to a munch.
If you're lucky enough to havea big group, munch with all the
community leaders and groupsthere, like we do now, awesome.
If not, you know, try outdifferent groups.
If you have like a start nowtype group or a newbie support

(18:51):
group, definitely go there.
Do your research, like researchis so important and there's so
much information out there, butunderstanding the basic concepts
of consent, vetting, riskprofiles and a little bit of
psychology, like understandingwhat your goals are, you know.

(19:12):
Are you getting into thisbecause you just think it's hot
and whatever?
Are you getting into thisbecause you may be seeking a
distraction from dealing withyour issues and using it as
therapy, which you should not?
Or are you getting into itbecause you have certain needs
and you are instinctively pulledtowards this lifestyle, because

(19:34):
this lifestyle can betherapeutic and healing for you?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
We always say that kink is and can be incredibly
therapeutic, but don't use it assoul therapy.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Absolutely, absolutely.
You know it's my first questionwhen I've had submissives is
literally like are you, you know?
Do you have any?
Are you diagnosed with anything?
Are you seeing a therapist?
And if the question is, youranswer is no, I'm like we're not
doing anything.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Then yeah, for sure.
I want to give a littledefinition for our listeners, in
case they don't know what amunch is.
So you want to give it?
No you go.
Oh okay, so a munch is aget-together of typically kinky
people, but in a very vanillaatmosphere like bars,
restaurants.
My first munch was at a VFW you, but sometimes they have

(20:27):
education there, sometimes not,but it's the whole purpose to go
to a space and meet otherpeople in less pressure
environments that aren't likegoing to a play party, where
people feel a lot of pressure toplay and now you're seeing
naked people and people playingand possibly doing sexy things,
and so we don't.
It's a way for people to go,even experienced kinksters to go

(20:48):
, and not feel the pressure tohave to play or things like that
.
It's a way to get to knowpeople for people and not based
off their labels or what theycan do for you.
Kink wise Just wanted to give alittle of that in case people
are like what's a munch?
Yeah, that's how that goes.
I love that advice that yougave, though.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Oh, thank you.
No, just to say it's a good wayto get your feet wet and also a
good way to get vetted forgroups.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
For sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
And get to know people like theleaders and things like that,
especially people who like wantto meet people.
I always tell people like oh,say, you're looking for, maybe,
a submissive partner or you'relooking for a play partner.
You can always contact theorganizer and tell them who you
are, you're new, maybe they canintroduce you to people, sort of

(21:32):
be like a little bit of amatchmaker.
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
That's what I was going to say is.
One of the next things is youknow, try to get to know people
and it may be hard in thebeginning, you know, when people
don't always show their colorsand there's no drama like kink
drama, but try to find a personthat could mentor you or people
you know.
Try to find as many people asyou can to learn from.
Ask people questions.

(21:58):
You know, if you go to a playparty, ask people if you can
watch something.
You know you will be surprisedby what they let you do
sometimes.
The person I was mentoring, oneof his homework assignments was
to go around an event that Iwas hosting and he had like a
sheet of different tasks that hehad to do and one of them was

(22:21):
observe some kind of aninteraction taking place.
That is not straight play andone of our friends, the couple
they were gracious enough to lethim observe aftercare.
Oh okay, I love that Right, sovery intimate, very.
You know private, but it's very, very important.
Yeah, absolutely.

(22:41):
But, like you said, gettinginto the kink community, it's a
smorgasbord of things and Ithink that you know I'm big on
books, I love books, so it's buybooks.
You know everybody knows likesome of the classics on the kink
community side and you know Ihave some that I would recommend
to people.
But just take it slow, it's nota race Frenzy is the thing, yep

(23:06):
it sure is, but just take itslow, it's not a race.
Frenzy is the thing?
Yep, it sure is, regardless ofyour role.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, absolutely, regardless of how long happen.
Because when people are in aplay frenzy, they make the wrong
decisions because yourself-preservation kind of goes
out the window, because you justwant to play and experience the
things and elevate your brainchemicals and all of that stuff.
So unfortunately, people makewrong decisions when that

(23:47):
happens or play with the wrongpeople or whatever that looks
like.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yes, no, absolutely.
And you know, and unfortunately, I think sometimes it is
unavoidable, sometimes you endup learning the hard way.
But you know, every effortshould be made on our parts, as
you know, good stewards of ourcommunity, I think, if we see
somebody that's new to you know,bring them in to make them feel

(24:14):
comfortable, to give them someresources, and you know, not
necessarily be that personthat's sitting there like, oh,
look at this person, they'rehorrible but definitely point
them towards, like hey, we havethis individual, they make
amazing toys, they're somebodyyou can go to and they can teach
you how to put together a basictoy bag and find quality toys

(24:35):
for it.
We have an individual like thathere, tony with Little Fox Toy
Box, literally just-.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I love them.
I love Little Fox Toy,literally just I love them.
I love little fox toy box.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yes, I love them.
Can we do another?

Speaker 3 (24:48):
podcast episode where we just do like a toy show with
their stuff.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, no, but there was a.
Wasn't there something else yougot from them?

Speaker 2 (24:56):
No.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I thought we got like cuffs or something from them.
No, that was foxy feisty.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Oh, okay, okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
No, that was Foxy Feisty Red.
Oh, okay, okay, but I do knowthem though.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
I got a stuffed animal from them.
Oh, yes, oh, from the stuffingDid you get the strap on?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
for the stuffing.
I didn't.
They didn't have any more whenI went to the vet that's my
favorite part, but I was likeobsessed.
I needed this bat.
I had to get this cool bat.
It had rainbow wings and Ineeded to have it well they're.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
They're going to be delighted to hear this.
And, uh, you know, since youknow, um, previously before the
podcast, you and I kind oftouched on blood play, so they
make my favorite blood play toys.
Ah, okay, uh, they managed tohave two memes on the internet
about their toys.
So if you've seen them, so thebrick paddle, the, the bricks
that you step on in the middleof the night and they hurt

(25:48):
really bad on the carpet, I, Ihave to say it specific way.
So those paddles, uh, they werethe original inventors of those
and the memes that went around,but those were great.
And then, um, they came up asjust a joke with a.
Um, they came up as just a jokewith a rubber chicken flogger.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
I love that and that ended up on the internet, did it
make?

Speaker 3 (26:09):
noise.
You know I didn't get a chanceto see it in person.
I really wanted it, though,because we have somebody in our
group that is just terrified ofrubber chicken, and I needed it
because I'm a sadist in reasons,and you know I'm a sadist that
likes to use humor.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
I love that.
Yeah, me too.
Me too, I can't have a scenethat doesn't include humor.
I always ask in my negotiations, like one of my questions is
like can I use humor in our timetogether?
And like when is appropriate touse that?
Like, is it only when duringintense moments?
Is it only when I know thatyou're struggling, you know

(26:46):
stuff like that and you know Iwon't play with someone who
can't have humor because that'sjust very naturally me, yep.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
No, absolutely same.
Every time my husband and Ihave a scene, I mean we've done
serious scenes, but we've had afew that just devolved into an
absolute shit show.
And you know, and you hear thislike hysterical laughter, yeah,
an absolute shit show.
And you know, and you hear thislike hysterical laughter, yeah,
when people are like, oh yeah,we know, we know who's doing
this.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
My my scenes typically have the bottom crying
but laughing through the tears,like they're laughing and
crying at the same time.
I'm like, yes, that's, that'smy goal.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Great.
Get them so confused they don'tknow what they're feeling
exactly it's the best exactly, Iguess, like I just before we
step into a little bit a bloodplay.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Exactly, it's the best.
I love that confusion.
No-transcript.

(27:51):
That's a great question.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
That seems to be the question that everybody is
wanting to ask right now, whichI love because, you know, in the
search of making everythingaccessible to people.
So I could go through a longlist that I learned from Devin
Stone, because, devin, that'sone of Devin's favorite topics
and we've talked about it a lotrecently.
One of the things that Ithought of that, you know, was

(28:19):
kind of relatable to me right,was a lot of the time I see
aftercare spaces also used ashey, you're having a mental
health crisis and you need toget away from people's spaces.
So like a quiet zone, yeah, likea quiet, safe space, which I
mean it's great.
But unless you are, you know,lucky enough to deal with the

(28:41):
space, where you have just a lotof different aftercare rooms,
you know, like aftercare isnon-negotiable, you need to have
space for that.
But I think that it would be agood practice to provide people
with a dedicated room that is,you know, has, let's say, like a
weighted blanket or maybe evensomething like a vacuum bed, you

(29:02):
know, for people that need thatsensory kind of you know, huggy
feel to calm down if they're ina crisis.
You know, your classic likestuffies but adjustable lighting
, adjustable music you knowsnacks, chocolate, water, and I
know this is a big ask becausenot everybody's comfortable

(29:23):
discussing their neurodivergence.
But then again, like the thingsthat we do, we really need to
be open about something that youknow might affect the way we
act or react.
Right, because part of consentis being informed.
And so one of the things thatyou know I want to suggest is,
you know, having almost like alittle, not like a resume, but

(29:44):
just a little cheat sheetbasically stating that, hey, if
I'm in a mental health crisis,this is what it looks like, if
the person I'm with is nowhereto be found, this is what you
need to do.
I do, or have health insurance.
I do not have a mental healthcare professional that needs to
be contacted.
I may have these side effectsfrom this medication.

(30:05):
So just kind of a rundown ofeverything and, you know, maybe
kind of keep that, a copy ofthat in the room.
Like, have the person keep iton them, have the DMs and the
party hoes get familiar withthat and just like we have, you
know, medically trainedpersonnel on scene at a party,

(30:29):
have somebody that is a mentalhealth professional yes, well,
not necessarily even a mentalhealth professional, but you can
get certifications andbasically like mental health
crisis first aid.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
One of the things that westarted doing I know Parker has
is a sensory box, and so maybehaving something like that in
that kind of space that has likefidgets, has like soft things
or texture things or you knowall you know maybe like the foam

(30:57):
earplugs that people can put indifferent things like that that
could help with situations thatmay arise at events.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
For those reasons, You're reading my mind and I'm
laughing because you can'treally see.
But behind me is, you know, myclient couch and I have a little
nightstand next to it and Ihave a box just full of sensory
toys for my clients yeah oh, buta lot of times people don't
think about that.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
They're like, oh well , that person should have them
or bring them with them orwhatever.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
But sometimes I love pulling them out and I love, no,
and I love pulling them out andI love seeing like the look on
somebody's face where I'm likehere's a stack of blankets, um,
this bed, you can like lay downon it.
If you need to Fuzzy blanket, Ihave a pillow that says like
scream here.
I'm very non-traditional, right.
You know I have like a mousepad with.
You know flaming garbage canand just you know, I embrace the

(31:55):
chaos.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Gremlin, you know part of mental health, I guess.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
But yeah, I love seeing that look on somebody's
face where you know, yeah, youpull it out and they're like, oh
my God, I really needed this,and they feel very taken care of
and that just kind ofautomatically relaxes them and
you know it's, yeah, it'shelpful.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
So what do you think makes a great play party in your
eyes?

Speaker 3 (32:14):
A great play party in my eyes.
So, going back to my notes overhere, I had great notes and you
know I'm actually going todeviate from them completely
because I way overthought it.
I do think that there it's kindof a two part thing right.
So we've got the serious aspectof it, which is the rules.
You know we have to have a good, like thorough house brief.

(32:36):
People have to respect therules.
You need to have clearexpectations set of the hosts
and the guests.
Accessibility, like you said, isa big thing.
At the same time, the fun stuffyou know you want to be able to

(32:59):
have, you know, like a varietyof toys, implements, different,
you know, I guess, differentlike rooms that people can try
out.
But one of the biggest thingsis just no drama.
You know, whoever the host ishas to be very good at handling
drama and it can be difficult,because I think that just comes
with time and respect in thecommunity as well.
But you know they have to bewilling to occasionally maybe

(33:23):
make somebody mad because youknow they're not letting them
propagate different behaviors.
And let me see, what did I have?
So, yeah, in an atmosphere likesafety and consent culture, so
like very clear enforced consentpolicies that everybody is
upholding actively, having somekind of a like consent

(33:45):
orientation.
That way everybody is on thesame page.
Do we really have the samedefinition of personal
responsibility?
for example, do we have the samedefinition of?

(34:07):
You know like I use a personalexample of play partner.
When my husband and I weregetting to know each other, he
told me about having a playpartner and in my brain it was
somebody that you've seen with,and I found out later there was
a sexual component to it and Ifelt some sort of way because to
me play partner was just playpartner and to him play partner
had a sexual component.

(34:27):
So you make sure you speak thesame language and for the house,
I think that is hosting it'skind of their responsibility to
say, okay, in this house, theseare kind of the rules that we
want everybody to follow inorder to eliminate any confusion
.
You know we have house safewords.

(34:48):
One thing I love seeing is, ifyou have any, I like to call
them like free-range submissivesor free-range S-types, and they
are feeling shy oruncomfortable or anything if
they get like house collars.
So, having that consideration,you know, like I said,
accessibility.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I always call them like protection collars, because
I've done that with a lot ofpeople over the years.
It's like I'm not interested inthem in a dynamic, but I know
if they wear this protectioncollar they're less likely to be
touched or approached or any ofthose things.
So it really is a goodprotection method for a lot of

(35:32):
S-types that they feeloverwhelmed or they know they're
going to be kind of almostharassed, maybe at a party to
play or to be interested or anyof those things.
That kind of automaticallymakes it, especially if you're
like, oh, that collar is fromthat person, right?
It's like, oh, okay, I won't,I'm not gonna approach that

(35:54):
person for play or whatever.
Yeah, absolutely.
Has that been beneficial foryou over the years.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think just any kind of collar is
going to signify to somebodythat there's like they're taken
in some way, or even if, likethe submissive, puts the collar
on themselves, it's just a wayof protecting against unwanted
advances.
Of course, there are going tobe people that see that and

(36:23):
don't care and will approachanyway and push boundaries,
because unfortunately that'sjust the nature of things, I
think.
So I definitely think wearingcollars is a cool idea to help
maybe mitigate some of the riskof having unwanted come-ons.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah, for sure, Absolutely.
And I think the way I've alwaysseen it is, you know, let's say
like if you're dominant andyou're hosting and you have the
free range, you know, as typesyou're kind of responsible for
them a little bit more thanyou're normally responsible for
all the guests.
I mean, of course, it's theyhave to consent to that as well.
But, yeah, it's your role tomake sure nothing happens to

(37:05):
them.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, a way of keeping everybody safe at the
party, absolutely, or eventwhatever.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yep.
So safety and consent.
You know seeing a variety ofpeople being very open to people
from all age groups, allexperiences, all walks of life.
You know not just seeing thesame like click over and over
again.
The same type of people.
Yes, the same type of people.
You know emotional support,again, having that culture where

(37:33):
people can open up andnegotiations and talk about
neurodivergence.
You know they can feelcomfortable.
They, you know, can run aroundnaked if they want to and not
feel, you know, judged orwhatever.
For sure, yeah, you know havethe kind of people that don't
seem to like outdo each other,because I know I've seen that
before.

(37:53):
So people that playintentionally, you know we all
want to go to parties.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
It's almost like a sport when you see people play
like that Right right, andthat's where mistakes happen too
.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
And you know, when you go to a party, you want to
play and have fun yourself.
Yes, but it's fun to be able tosee a variety of play styles,
and it's so nice when you get towatch a scene that just just
perfectly executed, you know,like it's very intentional it's.
You feel that connection.
You know it's not just robotic.

(38:24):
Okay, you're going to stand ina frame.
I'm going to beat your ass witha flogger.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
You know I love seeing that parker and I always
look and we're like, oh, theirenergy is so beautiful together,
like I just love that.
I love seeing that.
But when you see someone whomay be just not necessarily,
we've seen this a lot at events-they're looking around
everywhere else except for theirbottom.
It's like they're worried aboutwho's looking at them and it's

(38:49):
like how is that good energy andgood connection and safe?
How are you doing that whenyou're worried more about who's
looking at you?

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Right than checking in.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
I've seen that too and it's like, ooh, it's very
hard not to feel, not judgy, butlike some type of way, when I
see that.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Well, I mean because I think again, it's not even
judging, it comes down to safety.
You know, if you're playingwith somebody and you're not
looking, you're not watching,you're not reading those
nonverbal cues, you're notattention, then you know you
probably need to reconsider howyou do things, ben.

(39:37):
What have you have your focushere?
You know, and you have torespect a person that is willing
to go through that amount ofyou know pain and suffering for
you potentially, and you knowyou don't want to disrespect
them like that either.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
So what has been.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
I'll ask a lighter question what has been one of
the funniest moments that you'veseen?
Go down at a play party, orplaying, if you want to talk
about like times you've played,whether with your husband or
whatever?

Speaker 3 (40:06):
So this one was really hard, just because there
was one that it was a scene thatmy husband and I did.
But then recently we had a playparty where we decided to
chance and we did like a groupbratting scene and it was just,
it was absolutely, it wasabsolute chaos.
Thankfully, everybody was moreon the timid side, like we were
very worried.
We we made it so safe, you know, so many precautions and people

(40:30):
were a little timid.
But we started playingdifferent games where, um, you
know, I had, uh, like thoselittle smart-ass notepads hidden
in the back office where it waslike, you know, passive,
aggressive note, you know, andsubmissives could like sneak
back there and fill one out andtape it on a dom's back and they
had to guess whose handwritingit was and they could like get
out of a punishment.
We had a buzzer that would makea I'm trying to remember what

(40:55):
it said.
It was something like verydisrespectful, it was like a
yawn or something.
It was something like verydisrespectful.
It was like a yawn or something.
It was a very like annoyedsound.
So we'd have people hit thatbuzzer and try to steal it.
But so that was fun.
But I think one of my favoritescenes was with my husband and I
.
It was the first time weco-topped a friend and it was

(41:18):
kind of unexpected.
Was the first time we co-toppeda friend and, um, it was kind
of unexpected.
I wasn't really kind of feelingit that night, but the energy
was just.
It got there and so she was on.
She was on bench and um, he wasuh standing in front of her.
I had her uh fill her mouthwith a bunch of water and had
him get like nose to nose withher and she's very ticklish, and
tickle torture is one of myfavorite things.

(41:40):
It's like, yes, it's low effortand just high reward.
And I had these claws on that Iwore just for fun that night I
wasn't even thinking about usingthem.
So, um, it was a tickle torturescene and, um, we're just
trying to get her not to spit inhis face because she was a
little intimidated by him andshe got loose at one point.

(42:00):
So you hear the screamthroughout the house of sub on
the run and I got to run andgrab her and like wrestle her
back in the room and people hadno idea what the hell was going
on, because usually that type ofplay like it's a pretty calm
house, so it was just chaos.
It's a pretty calm house, um,so it's just chaos gremlin

(42:22):
energy everywhere it was.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
It was a lot of fun.
That's fun.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
I love that I'm sitting here and I'm like, oh
god, please don't do that,because I will spit the water
out in 0.2 seconds I love that.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
I love tickle torture so much um.
Who knew that it was a kink?
But it is you know it's.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
It's a thing.
I'm finding things out everyday for sure.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
I've been in um.
Next year will be 25 years andI literally find something new
every time.
I play like oh, is that a newkink?
I think think it is.
What's your newest?
What has been the newestThoughts?

Speaker 2 (43:03):
That's a very good question.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Huh, huh.
What has been the newest?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
We think you're like what have I done?
Yeah, what have I?

Speaker 1 (43:22):
done.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
There's been so much um oh shit, you said something
to me the other day that youwere like oh, this is a thing,
and now I can't remember whatthat thing was, damn it it was
really you and and horror daddydid you're going to remember it
after the podcast.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
I nibbled I, I bit his face.
I like bit his cheek, like likenot super duper hard, but I'm a
hard biter anyway, and like bithis cheek and like this like
facial expression that he made,I was like, oh, I'm kind of into
biting the cheeks, I love it.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
I love it he made, I was like oh, I'm kind of into
biting the cheese.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I love it.
I know you hate it.
I know you hate it, but I havedone it to you.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
There's to the little baby cheese, just a little baby
.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Okay, let's go into some blood play stuff.
What drew you to blood play andhow did you, I guess, learn to
play with it safely?

Speaker 3 (44:27):
uh well, first I learned how to um play with it
in a not safe way.
Sometimes that happens, yeah,for sure, absolutely um.
So I would say it came from um,probably a very similar place,

(44:47):
a lot of people um.
It was a combination of umself-harm and um.
I also was, you know, that kidthat was always obsessed with
like old school vampire novelsand rice you know, blood looks
like interesting Right Same.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
That is my reason for getting into blood play.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yes, yes, I have a pin that my friend got me.
It says all vampires are gay,by the way, it's fantastic Also
true, yeah.
Yes, and it was that.
It was a combination of, youknow, my spiritual beliefs as
far as like energy work, because, you know, to me blood is very
intimate and you know it shouldbe handled with care.

(45:28):
But the big thing was self-harm.
You know, and this is a veryloaded topic and I'm very
careful with how I phrase thingssometimes in this and'm still
practicing, but, um, best way Ican explain it is um, I never
self-harmed, um out of suicidalideation or, you know, suicidal
attempt.
It was a way for me to get myneurodivergent brain to.

(45:54):
Basically, it was a way for meto hack it and to make it make
the chemicals that I needed whenI was in an emotionally
stressful, overwhelmingsituation.
Right, so we're talking about,you know, endorphins coming out
first.
Right, so you get like theopiates and and there's opening
of the skin.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's even more brain chemicals than a typical.
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah, and you get the visual.
So it's, you know it's, it's asurvival mechanism that you get,
you know.
So it's, you know it's, it's asurvival mechanism that you get,
you know, because your bodygets distracted by the pain and
it's like, okay, you need tostay alive.
You don't cry, you just, youknow, kind of sit down, you get
that momentary high and then youget dopamine right.
So your reward and like reliefchemical, which, for an ADHD
brain, we love our dopamine.
We're dopamine fiends.

(46:40):
I am definitely dopaminedeficient, so yes, and the way I
like to phrase it, it's likedopamine is almost like a kind
of twisted good job sticker.
So when your body notices likeoh, pain relieves emotional
suffering and something kind ofclicks right, and then you get
like adrenaline, cortisol comingout, serotonin, and you start

(47:01):
to feel calm and groundedbecause your body's so focused
on physical survival, ratherthan whatever you're feeling
emotionally the other thingsdon't become as important
exactly it's that um.
At the same time it's also a wayto say you're somebody that
dissociates which know with mytrauma, I also tend to
dissociate.
That can make you feel moregrounded.

(47:22):
It can be a way of taking alike corporeal emotion you know
that you can't really touch,feel it just exists there and
making it into somethingphysical and then, through the
process of cleaning it up self,you know, care, watching it heal
.
It's almost like watching thatemotional pain heal and taking

(47:44):
care of that emotional woundthrough taking care of a
physical wound on your body.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Absolutely.
I love the way you worded that.
I love the way you worded that.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I think that there is some stigma surrounding
everybody who's into kink islike hurting mentally and
destroyed mentally and over have.
You know see PTSD and they'reself-harming and all these
things.
But I think it's just there areall different types of people

(48:17):
that have gone through alldifferent types of experiences,
different types of people thathave gone through all different
types of experiences, andthere's things that kink brings
out in such a healthy way toexplore healing in a different
way that other kinds of thingsjust don't even touch anywhere
close to.

(48:37):
So I think it's reallybeautiful that you found kink in
the way that you did and thatother people who have
self-harmed find it andhopefully they're doing it in
healthy ways, not just to seekself-harm behavior.
You know seeking yeah, it'slike self-harm by proxy.
Yeah, it's self-harm by proxy,basically, yeah, for sure

(48:59):
definitely um sorry, were yougonna say no, you're good, I was
gonna say I'm actually.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
It's so funny because , you know, I told you I sat
down and like I wrote a coupleof like I guess guides, just
because I wanted to get my wordsout on paper and kind of see
how I understand this concept.
So I'm sitting here for sureI'm paying attention to you guys
, but I'm sitting here and I'mlike looking through one where,
um I wrote from a self-injury toblood play um a healing,
empowered evolution and talkingabout shift into consensual

(49:27):
blood play and embracing it inthe healing context like key
things that support a healthyevolution, for example.
Um, and then there was anotherpiece that I wrote that's called
reclaiming blood.
It's a trauma-informed guide toconsensual blood play for
former self-injurers and it'slike five pages.
There's nothing crazy.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I think it's incredibly important yeah for
sure.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Yeah, and the way I ended it I know I had a friend
read it and one of the bestthings ever.
She was like bitch, you made mecry.
I was like you know what, I'mglad and you know the closing
words and I said you're notbroken for wanting blood, you're
not weak for having a history.
You're powerful for choosing toreclaim it safely, consensually
and with love.
Blood doesn't have to mean harmanymore.
It can mean connection, control, devotion, beauty and erotic

(50:13):
power, and you deserve toexperience it in ways that serve
your healing.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I love that.
I would love links to those ifyou're comfortable with me
sharing in the show notes sopeople can see that and
everything, because I love that.
I think that that's soimportant and not something
that's talked about veryregularly and should be talked
about in great detail, and thatit's.

(50:39):
You know, I think kink ingeneral brings out a lot of
emotions from people thatthey're not expecting.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
And so I think that that may really help some people
.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
It pushes people out of their comfort zone and, you
know, makes like.
To me.
It's like if you can't talkabout it, you shouldn't be doing
it.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, and we do a lot of things.
Yes, you know trigger warningsare there for a reason and
everything.
But I'm a huge fan of what Icall like uncomfortable talks
and you need to have those.
And, like you said, it's funnythat there's still stigma, even
within the kink community, with,you know, blood players, for
example.
Part of it is because you know,of course you're talking about

(51:21):
like safety, you know bloodwormpathogens, things like that.
But on a mental health level,you know, I mean I've my husband
and I've scared a dungeonmonitor before because we were
doing a blood play scene and youknow he leaned over and like
rubbed his face in my blood andhe looks up and he has blood in
his beard and like a blood clot,you know, and he looks crazy.
And then the DM was notexpecting that, you know.

(51:45):
But that's just how we play andit's, you know, it's fun for us
, it's an energy exchange, youknow it's loving, it's healthy,
but yeah, but you do end up in alot of situations where you
have to explain yourself topeople, like you said earlier.

(52:06):
You know the way.
You know the vanilla worldlooks at us and, looking at
research, right, there's so muchresearch that shows that people
in the kink communities areactually healthier and more
well-adjusted.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Absolutely.
I say that all the time in myclasses.
People have this idea that weare, I don't know like you know,
like, as the DSM has, like youknow, used to have us, as, like

(52:35):
you know, and all these things,oh, go know us and really it's
just another way to love ourpartners, to connect, to have
intimacy in alternative forms.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Yes, and it's intentional.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
You know how many people do you know that sit down
and talk about their boundaries.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
That sit down and you know say okay, even their sex,
like I think about people,vanilla they don't talk about
their sex.
No, and that's something I'mlearning in sex coaching too, is
people have a hard time talkingabout sex and you know I've
been privileged enough to so Ivolunteer with Tajra and under
Dr Richard Sprott and he's liketip of the spear, tip of the

(53:26):
spear, leading researcher thatbasically is responsible for
kink getting destigmatized, kinkgetting taken out of the DSM,
along with many others.
I don't want you know, otherpeople deserve credit for that
too but he published hisclinical guidelines for working
with kinky patients and you knowhis research has had such a
huge part in showing just howbeneficial kink can be when it's
done consensually.

(53:46):
When it is, you know, like,done intentionally, we can put
ourselves in situations thatwould normally re-traumatize us.
But in a context of thiscontainer of consent and
boundaries and reframing thoseexperiences to where we have

(54:10):
power over them, yeah, that isso powerful.
It really is.
Yeah, I mean the guidance of atherapist.
I have to say that again.
But you know it's yeah, I thinkit's huge and I'm really hoping
, like I'm I'm a big, bigadvocate for kink being
destigmatized.

(54:30):
You know, I scream it from therooftops.
I don't care, I don't careabout like being outed, whatever
.
You know I don't go by scenename, I just I love talking to
anybody that will listen aboutit.
Know I don't go by scene name.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I just, I love talking to anybody that will
listen about it.
Yeah, absolutely, when we, whenwe talk about because we always
say like um, because we alwaystalk about kap, like
professionals, um, the, thedirectory, and we always say
like you know, still vet people,because just because they're on
there doesn't mean I'm on thedirectory actually, right, I
just got my name on.
Yeah, but also like it's soimportant to see someone who is

(55:07):
kink knowledgeable, kink aware,kink, you know, all of those
things.
I think it's so important forkinksters to see a mental health
provider specifically so thatthey're not pathologized for
just being kinky, so thatthey're not pathologized for
just being kinky, like, oh,you're having these problems
because you're doing theseactivities, or even like you're
having these problems becauseyou have multiple partners, as

(55:29):
you know, someone who might beethically non-monogamous, like
those kind of things.
There's a lot of judgment thatI've seen in mental health
providers over the years andI've just found myself and how
important it is to have a mentalhealth provider that is kink
knowledgeable and doesn't, youknow, pathologize or try and

(55:51):
change your opinion of whyyou're into a thing or something
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Well, you know, and that was actually one of my
driving forces for kind of doingwhat I started doing was not
just my own experience withfinding providers that were, you
know, kink friendly, kinkknowledgeable, but hearing so
many of my friends and people inmy community ask about
resources and saying like Ireally need to get help.
But I need to talk about kinkbecause it's a big part of my

(56:20):
life and I don't know who to goto.
You know, and I wanted to Abecome that kind of resource for
somebody.
B have access to otherresources because, you know, I'm
not a therapist but I have anetwork of people you know, and
I've been fortunate enough towhere, you know, my psychiatrist
and my therapist are both verykink aware, very kink friendly,

(56:46):
and was not on purpose.
I didn't find them because ofthat, it just as we got more
comfortable with each other, Ifound that out.
Yeah, it just happened, andit's been so great, you know,
and I want other people to knowwhat that's like because you
know, like you said, it's, it'sno longer the DSM, you know it's
and, like, stephanie Gorlickhas actually written a couple of

(57:07):
really good books about, um,therapeutic kink and BDSM.
So if you left to read.
Stephanie Gorlick has a goodperspective on being a mental
health care provider and youknow, working with uh, somebody
that's into kink.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Oh, okay, I love that , let me see.
So is there?
Let's talk a little bit.
Going back to a little bit moreblood play stuff, is there?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
anything that you're itching to do when it comes to
blood play that you haven't doneyet.
So I had to think about thisquestion long and hard and I had
to ask a couple of people.
I had to do sanity checks,right, but for the purpose of
just saying fuck it all, sincethat's the spirit here, right, I
would love to do an ElizabethBathory scene Wait, say that

(57:59):
again Like a Bathory scene.
So have a number of consensualdonors that would donate like a
pint of blood, just like youwould go to Red Cross right and
just fill up a bathtub and getmy rubber duckies Maybe not the
rubber duckies, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
And just do like a bathtub, you know, and like just
splash around and bathing inthe blood of your friends oh
yeah, so hot, so hot.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
I'll volunteer a pint I mean I will take it, thank
you, but yeah, no, I did.
I thought about that one and Iwas like fuck.
I was like you know, whatever,like somebody, somebody's gonna
judge, no matter what.
So I can tell you mine'ssimilar to that.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yes, oh yeah, so I won't make you feel so out there
.
Yes, mine's very similar tothat, actually I.
Just the difference is I wantto.
I want to have wild, crazy,like blood sex in a coffin.
Yeah, yeah, like bad.

(59:04):
You have no idea.
My other partner is a carpenterand I've been trying to get him
to make me a life-size coffin,but it has to be bigger because
I have to be able to fit twopeople in it.
Right, you know I?

Speaker 3 (59:21):
love that idea.
I'm just thinking of that sceneand I interview the vampire
about it's your coffee, dear.
You know he flips the lid.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
I want it so bad, but I want like a whole bunch of
blood in there and I just wantto be like just rolling around
in it or like some primal playwith that.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Oh yes, yes, we did a blood play scene and it was a
friend's house in the middle ofthe woods, like dark at night
and I get very I'm trying tothink excited.
My energy kind of jumps upafter a blood play scene usually
and I just tackled him when westarted wrestling in the grass

(59:59):
with me like naked and bloodyand it was the coolest thing
ever.
It was so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
I love that.
Yeah, it definitely brings outprimal feels, for sure.
Yeah, it's just blood ingeneral for me anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Yeah, or like Blade style.
You know the scene in the clubwith like the blood shower, yeah
, yes, yes, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
What's one piece of advice you wish you had early in
your blood?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
play journey you know , one of the questions that
comes up sometimes is you knowhow, how would you approach
negotiation differently, right,With somebody that you've known

(01:00:46):
for a while, or with somebodynew?
Pick up play, you know, scenepartner, I would never do pick
up play with somebody with bloodplay at this point, Maybe maybe
needles, maybe staples, butnothing more than that.
Just because, again, I think,to me it's the spiritual aspect.

(01:01:08):
It's very intimate.
I don't mind somebody else'sblood at all, I'm not squeamish
or anything, but it's thatconnection and to me it is
something that is not to be, Iguess, treated casually and it's
very sacred.
And not to mention, I just Iwouldn't feel comfortable with
somebody that was pickup play.
You know it's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I agree with that.
Yeah, they're just there's.
There's this bond that happenswhen you do blood play with
someone.
There's this like differentlevel of bonding that happens.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
And if you don't have that connection with that
person you don't want to.
I should say you don't want tohave that connection with
someone and you do thisespecially as a blood top.
I know like the clinginess andthe neediness from the bottom
afterwards because of thatincredible bond that you build

(01:02:04):
during blood play can sometimesbe overwhelming if you're not
wanting it, and so I've learnedto really be super choosy of who
I do that with.
I'm also really big with energyplay and stuff like that.
So if I'm doing any energy playand or blood, I'm very choosy

(01:02:25):
about who I do that with.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
No, absolutely.
You know we're talking aboutagain I'm kind of looking at you
know some notes here that Iwrote up beforehand.
You know we're talking aboutthe key considerations and
dynamics and I wrote somethingabout emotional layering.
You know blood play, tying intolike love, devotion, control,
power exchange.
That intensifies the meaningand the potential for emotional

(01:02:49):
vulnerability and, like you said, the ongoing care and healing
is.
You know you're responsible forwound care and it just again,
it ties you to a person Longterm.
Very personal ways yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Yeah, for sure I agree with that.
Yeah, I think on that same line, because when we see blood
right, there's this like, evenif we're so into it, there's
this like almost fear thathappens.
That is like life or death fearRight.
And so it kind of happens, thesame as when you do breath play

(01:03:27):
with somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
That's why I don't do my favorite things, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Me too, but that's why I don't do breath play with
a pickup person or someone I'mnot close with, but it's the
same thing.
It builds those same fearfeelings of this.
This person literally has theirlife in your hands, right
Literally, and I think it's thesame with blood, and so it

(01:03:51):
brings this like higher levelsof surrender that are just like
so nuanced that, if you'replaying with people that you
don't know, connect you to thisperson for life.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
I feel like, anyway, sometimes and you don't know
what you're connecting to either, because you know people can
present themselves so manydifferent ways.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
You know, like on that surface level, through
negotiation and everything youdon't know what kind of things
that might open up in a person,how they might react.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Absolutely, or how that may affect them long-term
mentally, like their mentalhealth right that now, as a top,
you're responsible for.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, I was going to say it's funny you mentioned
breath play, you know.
Going like way back to one ofthe questions about teaching
newbies For fuck's sake, teachthem how to choke properly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Yeah, I finally decided you, you know, I've
heard it so many times, peoplehave asked me so many times to
do like asphyxiation classes,and I was like I cannot teach
that virtually.
I cannot do that virtually likelike safety, wise, feeling like
safe.
But we put together you know aclass and go into great depth.
I show a lot of demos, I showclose-ups, I show different

(01:05:06):
things, because the problem is,what I've realized is that if
we're not talking about it, itdoesn't matter.
People are still going to do it.
People are doing it, oh no,absolutely Absolutely, and so I
need to have conversations aboutit.
It has to be a direct thing.
That's why, you know, we doclasses on cannabis and kink.
It's because my thought is,people are going to be doing it

(01:05:28):
regardless of if we teach it ornot.
It's just they need these arepeople who really need this
information, this consentinformation, this safety
information.
You know how to do things assafe as possible, because, as
kinksters, we like to do thingsthat aren't inherently sane and
aren't inherently safeAbsolutely, and so we have to be

(01:05:50):
able to have conversationsabout it.
So we decided, you know, okay,we're going to start teaching
them, even though a lot of times, I don't feel like people know
the information before doingthese things.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
You're absolutely right.
You know and it's like theclasses that I'm teaching
consent right now.
One of the things we kind ofdive into is not just consent
models but exists on a spectrum.
But we never start out with100% capacity because so many
internal and external factorscan affect our capacity to

(01:06:26):
consent from something like youknow, I'm hungry.
I'm hangry.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
I'm sitting here thinking about food.
You know I might be kind ofdistracted to you know, to being
you know, yeah, like you, youknow you talked up a little bit.
You're feeling kind of good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yep, I don't know menstrual cycle where you are in
your menstrual cycle.
Oh, that's pain tolerance.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
I've become such a bitch For most people, yeah,
yeah, but yes, no, absolutely.
And you know, the biggest thingis everything we're going to do
is going to carry some amountof risk and danger, so we can
never eliminate it.
Our goal should not be toeliminate it.
It's not reasonable, it's notpossible, it's too.
I'm going to use a term a lotof military people hate and I

(01:07:11):
love it, but it's ORM, it'soperational risk management.
Yeah, you recognize the risks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
You try and find ways to mitigate them.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
You try to mitigate them.
Yeah, it's like for me, youknow, it's like if I could take
like rack and prick and likesmash them together and then you
know, and then throw in like alittle bit of dash, of like
crash, that would be, you know.
It's like personal riskawareness, you know.
Mitigating risk, personalresponsibility, shit happens.
Yeah, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I had so many more questions but we've had this
like wonderful talk and I knowwe're at time.
I want to ask you what wealways ask our guests.
We always have this onequestion that we ask our guests
what is your favorite way ofconnecting with a partner?

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
My favorite, okay, so we talked about blood play
already, but my favorite okay,so we talked about blood play
already, but, um, my favoriteway, uh, with connecting with a
partner.
Oh, that's a really tough one,um it doesn't have to be
sexually or right um, it wouldeither be talking about music or

(01:08:21):
books together, because thatcan tell me a lot about a person
.
Oh, I love that.
Or just I don't necessarily saybratting, but like that mental
back and forth kind of sparringBanter.
Yeah, just a little bit ofbanter, you know, and like
letting each other's like brattysides come out, and yeah, I

(01:08:43):
think.
So those three things I lovethat, those are good ones, right
For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you
for all of your wonderfulinsights and everything.
I'm so glad that we finallymade this happen.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Yes, yes, I was so excited Again, I don't know for
whatever reason you noticed mypost on the website and I
fangirled.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I did I felt connected to you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
I hope that's okay, that is again.
I fangirled hard.
I've been lucky since I startedthis journey.
It's like all of you guys havebeen coming into my life somehow
, every educator, every personthat I'm like, wow, I'd love to
talk to them.
And all of a sudden, oh,Connected Manifesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Manifesting, it really is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
So, yeah, no, absolutely Like.
Please feel free to reach outanytime.
I will send some stuff your way, yeah, please.
So get it organized and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you.
Bye everyone.
Thanks for joining us.
Tune in next time for moreAdventures in the Lounge and
remember always keep an openmind.
You never know what's aroundthe corner.