Head Case: Is it Really Easier to Please a Penis?

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But is it? Lately there have been a few viral videos well known people discussing the change in degree of difficulty in pleasing a penis vs. a vulva. This week Kari and Casey provide their perspective on the whole conversation. 

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Episode Transcript

Casey (00:00):
Well, welcome to another episode of Naughty By Nature.

(00:03):
We are your hosts.
I am Casey Sanders.

Kari (00:05):
And I'm Carrie Sanders.
Hi, how are you today?

Casey (00:09):
That's a great way to start it, isn't it?
Thank you.
Hi.
Hi.
Hello.
How are you doing today?
Um.
What,

Kari (00:15):
what prompted today's, um, topic?
Because you came up with it.

Casey (00:19):
Yeah, I did.
Well, you know, we, we've gonethrough a lot of our, a lot of
our episodes over time mm-hmm.
To figure out which, whichepisodes people really react to
or have more questions about.
And in light of that, it alwaysseems to come back to a few
topics being in like the topthree, right?

Kari (00:40):
Yeah.
The questions that we get,they're always geared.
Very similar topic, at least.
Yeah.

Casey (00:45):
So we've had really big conversations with people
wanting to know about anal.

Kari (00:49):
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah, that's a big one.

Casey (00:50):
That's always a big one where people are wanting like
tips and tricks.
How do I, you know, convince mypartner to do it all that kind.
It's a huge conversation.
It really is.
Uh, that's a big one that wehave.
We have, um, how can I introducekinks to my partner without
feeling insecure or judged?
That's a big one that we have,

Kari (01:09):
you know, one that I thought that we would get a
bunch with like threesomequestions, but we really don't
get like a huge amount of likethreesome questions.
You're right.
We get a lot more about likepalacio and about like anal.
Well, I think and about likecommunicating wants,

Casey (01:22):
if I remember correctly, the statistics around that are
like 18% of men.
Mm-hmm.
And 10% of women.
Don't quote me on those numbersbecause they may be incorrect.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but have participated in athreesome, however, is that

Kari (01:38):
little.

Casey (01:38):
Mm-hmm.
However, it is the most searchedof like all topics and is the
top rated fantasy for both menand women.
Yeah.
Is threesomes.
I

Kari (01:50):
mean, I get it.
Yeah.
I get the appeal.
We,

Casey (01:51):
we've also had people that have, that have, we've seen
numbers online where, at leastonline.
Mm-hmm.
Where somebody's talking.
They'll be like, you know, inactuality, um, most people have
just confronted and asked, Hey,here's an idea that I have.
You wanna have a threesome thatmost people reported back that
they would say, okay.

Kari (02:09):
Yeah.

Casey (02:11):
I think that's a number worth noting.
That's like, I mean,

Kari (02:14):
there's a lot of interest in it anyways, we we're going,
we're going sideways here.
Oh, we, no,

Casey (02:17):
we're not.
We're no, we're not.
We're, we're staying right ontopic of our, most of our most,
okay.
Uh, searched or at least talkedabout discussions, but the
number one that we have aboveall else always comes back to
the same thing.
It's people are wanting to knowmore about oral.
It always comes back to that.
People wanna know like, whydon't I like it?

(02:39):
Why don't I want to give it?
Why don't I wanna receive it?
People wanna know, why do I loveit so much?
Why am I so attracted to people

Kari (02:45):
I know that go their entire relationships without
having any type of like oralintimacy?
And that is wild to me.

Casey (02:51):
There's people that we know that are like, I, I think
it's gross.
I don't want to do it, and I'llnever touch it.
And they're so set in theirways, but we've also had private
conversations with maybe theirpartner who have been like, no,
it's, I really like it.
It's really important to me.
Mm-hmm.
And I just cannot.
Communicate that to my partnerwithout them getting upset or
angry.
So we wanna talk today a littlebit, a little bit, all about

(03:12):
really oral.
Mm-hmm.
What do you have, if I was gonnasay like, what was your, what
would be your biggest questionabout oral if you were to be
presented with the opportunity?

Kari (03:23):
So like, ask something honest.
You are,

Casey (03:25):
you are at some like symposium, sex positive
symposium and they're talkingabout oral sex and you have the
opportunity to ask a question.

Kari (03:32):
Mine would be, how do I just make him come faster?
Yeah, that'd be mine.
I'm doing the tricks.
Wait, I'm doing the swirls.
I got the tongue down, but hetakes a really fucking long time
to come.
That would my

Casey (03:44):
question.
What, what would you classify asa long time?
I don't

Kari (03:49):
know.
How long does it take you?

Casey (03:51):
Uh, it depends on the day.
A long time.
We've had times where it's beena couple of minutes.
We've had times where it's been20 minutes.

Kari (03:57):
That is honestly, yes.
I'm, I'm, you're right.
That is very true.
Um, you do vary.
You, you vary a lot.
Um, I, I think I would want toknow like a finisher move that's
not swallowing.

Casey (04:07):
You want, you want a magic bullet?

Kari (04:09):
No, no, no, no.
Yes, I do.
And I feel like I'm alreadypretty good at what I'm doing.
But what I mean is like, myquestion would be more geared
towards like.
I know he is seconds away fromcoming.
Mm-hmm.
What is like the end all, be alllike jaw dropping move that I
could do?
Like would it be like a fingerin the ass?
Would it be like

Casey (04:29):
at this point are you asking me?

Kari (04:31):
No, I'm not asking you.
I asking the guy, you just saidthat I'm at a seminar.
I'm speaking to the man onstage.
The person on stage.
That would be my question.
Yeah, that'd be my question.
How can I, knowing he's about tocome, just fucking blow his
mind.
You

Casey (04:45):
know what the response would probably be.

Kari (04:47):
Finger on the, but

Casey (04:48):
no, they would say, ask your partner.

Kari (04:51):
Yep.
That, yeah,

Casey (04:52):
they would say, why are you asking me this?
Ask your partner.
You

Kari (04:55):
asked me, and now you're getting onto my question.

Casey (04:58):
No, I'm not.
That's not getting onto you.
There's

Kari (05:01):
so many.
No, I mean, what would your,what would you ask?

Casey (05:06):
What would be my question?
What, what would

Kari (05:07):
be the one thing that you would wanna ask somebody?

Casey (05:09):
Ooh.
The one thing that I would askif it was like a researcher or
somebody, um, about, about oral.

Casey (2) (05:16):
Mm-hmm.

Casey (05:17):
See, mine wouldn't be a move or anything.
Mine would be like, kind of likewhat we discussed earlier.
Um, is it really easier for to,to go down on a woman than it is
to go down on a, on a, it's liketo go down a vulva than it is to
go down on a penis.
Yeah.
Which one is actually easier?
What are the numbers show?
What does your research show?

(05:38):
Who is it that is easier to godown?
I after wife, that's, I can'tactually.
I like that benefit.
And you just ask me, which isthe exact answer I just gave
you.
You made a, and you made a wholedeal of it, and now you're
telling me that you should just,I should just ask you

Kari (05:55):
we're both huge hypocrites.
Look at us.

Casey (05:57):
So then let, let's go through that then.
Yeah.
Okay.
C Carrie.
Mm-hmm.
Do you feel it's easier to godown on a vulva or a penis?

Kari (06:05):
Um, I would, I would say vulva owner.
Is physically easier,

Casey (06:11):
like less demanding?

Kari (06:13):
Yes, but like mentally harder.

Casey (06:17):
Ooh.

Kari (06:17):
Right.
So like if I'm going down onyou, there's no, there's no like
mental warfare here.
I'm just going down on you.

Casey (06:26):
What do you mean?

Kari (06:27):
Like, I feel like with a woman.
And or with the women that Ihave been with.

Casey (2) (06:35):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (06:36):
It is much more theatrical.
Okay.
It's much more in the moment.
It's more, um, assuring they'reokay.
Having maybe a little bit moresoft communication throughout
mm-hmm.
When, when I'm with you and Idon't feel like that has
anything to do with, I'm, I'vebeen with you a long time.
I feel like I can remember backat the very beginning of, of our

(06:57):
relationship, I.
Did not go into like theemotional where, where or
whatever with you.
Okay.
Where when I've been with awoman, it has definitely been
like, how else are you feelingabout what's happening in the
moment?

Casey (07:13):
So you added those complex layers of emotion into
being with a woman and keeping abase layer with a man.

Kari (07:19):
Yes.
That's my personal experience.
So I will say, but it's alsomore intimidating to go down on
a woman.
And when it comes to like.
I'm gonna make you come in thephysical work.
A male is way harder.

Casey (2) (07:34):
Yeah.
If

Kari (07:34):
I'm gonna make you come in the physical work, a woman is
way easier.

Casey (2) (07:38):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (07:38):
But now you add like a whole other layer to it.
And then why?
Why do you feel like

Casey (07:44):
you don't have to add that with a male part, that

Kari (07:46):
emotional layer?
Because y'all also are veryresponsive on what you like.

Casey (07:50):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (07:51):
Um.
Yes.
I like that.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Do that.
Girls don't do that.

Casey (07:56):
See, I that's girls don't.
That is so biased.
I've talked to people before whoare just like.
Like, we don't communicate atall, or I've, we've talked about
this before, guys that justdon't say anything.
Sit there and

Kari (08:08):
No, y'all do.
I, I don't, I, I'm sorry.
This might be inappropriate, butI have never gone down on a guy
and him just be like,

Casey (08:15):
why would that be inappropriate?

Kari (08:18):
There's nothing inappropriate.
We're literally talking aboutsex all the time,

Casey (08:22):
and you're giving a personal experience.
There's nothing inappropriateabout that.
All I'm

Kari (08:25):
saying is I have never questioned my ability with a
man, whether they're not that.
Sometimes nonverbal cues orjust, I don't know, your dick
getting swollen and eng gores inmy mouth.
It's really easy to tell wheny'all are like super into it.
With women, it's not necessarilylike that.

Casey (08:45):
You're not, you're not getting those like objective
measures to determine if she'sreally feeling pleasure or not.
It's not detail

Kari (08:52):
with women and, and I understand that like.
School.
Honestly, my level of being withmen and women are, are, are
lower.
However, from my experience,I've never had to question with
the guy, am I making this feelgood for you?

Casey (09:06):
Yeah.

Kari (09:07):
I've always had to question, poor a girl, am I
making this feel good for you?
Yeah.

Casey (09:12):
Especially'cause you don't like in those moments,
because of the way that we'rekind of, the message we're given
as, as we come up in the worldmm-hmm.
Is that you don't know are this,is, are they being real right
now or is this like theatricalfor, they're trying to put on a
performance because they feellike they're supposed to mm-hmm.
What's going on in their head.
We are trained and told thatlike that that is.

(09:33):
What's going on?
Only we're talking about womenfaking orgasms.
We talk about, well, yeah, butnot

Kari (09:36):
only the performance of receiving, but the performance
of giving.
Yeah.
Women giving head to a male,anyone giving head to a male.
That's more, in my opinion,theatrical.

Casey (2) (09:46):
Yeah.

Kari (09:47):
Look up at the eyes, you know, spit on it.
Drool like that is like thesound, like mm-hmm.
That to me is very liketheatrical, where I don't feel
like I would perform that sameway for a woman.

Casey (09:59):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (10:00):
Right.
Like, it, it is, there it is.
Differences.
Um,

Casey (10:04):
wait, do you feel like I perform for you whenever I go
down on you?

Kari (10:06):
Uh, no.
But I think that if you weregiving head, you would like to a
a if you were giving a penis onher head, yeah.
I think that you would fall intothe theatric

Casey (10:14):
center.
Do you want more performative?
Whenever I go down on you,

Kari (10:17):
what are you gonna do?
What, what, what is the maleperformative equivalent to what
a girl can do through him?

Casey (10:22):
As soon as these cameras turn off, I will show you.
Yeah.
And then you can report back.

Kari (10:29):
Like a, a woman or a, a girl on her knees with, with a
cock in her mouth is, is a verydifferent vibe.

Casey (10:37):
Yeah.

Kari (10:38):
Maybe because your organ is external and mine's internal

Casey (10:42):
could be.
Right.

Kari (10:42):
There's more visual aid to giving head to a penis versus
giving head to a vulva.
It

Casey (10:49):
could be

Kari (10:51):
not, could be.
It

Casey (10:55):
could be a reason

Kari (10:56):
saying like.

Casey (10:57):
But if you're, if you're a, if you're going down a woman
and you, you know, put a mirrorin front of you and then allow
them to watch through a mirror,

Kari (11:03):
how many people do that?
Have you ever been that?
Oh, I'm gonna give

Casey (11:05):
you an idea.
I'm just giving you asuggestion.

Kari (11:07):
I'm just saying, but if you want it to be more theatric
application, that's not a thing.
No one does that.
You know, you

Casey (11:13):
are, you make some broad, yes, I do claims some with no
basis in reality.

Casey (2) (11:19):
Very truthful.

Casey (11:21):
You've asked, asked, no one.
You've consulted nothing.
You're just spouting shit offthe top of your head.

Casey (2) (11:26):
But I'm not wrong.

Casey (11:28):
You are.

Kari (11:32):
Damn.
It's not my birthday weekanymore.
I can't use that.

Casey (11:35):
No excuses now.
No

Kari (11:37):
excuse.
Listen, so one of the reasonsthat we wanted to sit down and
write out this episode or evendiscuss it is.
There's a lot of people that Iknow that are super not
interested in giving head oreven receiving.
Yeah.
Right.
Typically in my, my mind, mycorrect mind, when I say giving
head, I go to like a male givinghead.
Yeah.
I know.

(11:58):
I don't know as many men thatare turned off to the idea of
being gone down on mm-hmm.
Versus Volvo owners that arelike absolutely not.
I'm curious about thatdisconnect.

Casey (12:09):
So you've talked to a lot of, a lot of vulva owners who
have been like, I'm notinterested in somebody going
down on me.

Kari (12:15):
Oh.
Lost so many women that arelike, nah, but I've ne okay.
I will say look like talk to menabout head all the time.
Yeah.
But like, I can't imagine.
Hearing the same response.
Mm-hmm.
Like, have you talked to any ofyour guy friends?
And a guy is just like, nah,it's disgusting.
I don't do that.
It's been

Casey (12:30):
few and far between.
I have, it's not non-existent.
Yeah.
But it's been few and farbetween where I've had, uh, a
penis owner talk to me aboutmm-hmm.
Receiving head and they're like,I just, I don't like it Really,
it's not entertaining for me.
It's, I don't, I don't enjoy it.
What's

Kari (12:44):
his name?
Who is it?
Where do they live?
I wanna call him up.
Kidding.
No, I mean, the, the pointthough, being that like.
I do feel like there's adifferent stigma when it comes
to like men receiving and womenreceiving, but the hope of this
show and what we're trying toget across is that like it
really is the same thing as longas you're communicating what it

(13:05):
is that you want.
Yeah.
Through oral, oral.
I don't know what the word Ijust said, but I said it.
So whenever we're kind of goinginto a disgusting,'cause we're
sitting at lunch and we'retalking about like, what are
some of the reasons that someonewould be like, I don't do this.
Mm-hmm.
I don't wanna give head.

Casey (13:21):
Yeah.
And so we're kind of, okay, sowe're going from the, like the
giving aspect right now.
Yes.
What would be reasons whereyou'd be like, no, I don't do
that.

Kari (13:27):
Yeah.
Like, I don't, I don't want togive you head.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so some of the ones that wehad then like written down.
Um,'cause there's a fewdifferent reasons as to why
someone might feel that way.
Yeah.
But a, you know, a good portion,it can be like upbringing, like
you said, or like maybe likereligious purposes mm-hmm.
Or whatever.
So we're the first one that wewrote down.
Was trauma.

Casey (13:47):
Yeah.
So that's a big one.
And that, that one we evendiscussed, uh, there's, I think
it's in her book, mating inCaptivity, but Esther Perel
talks about a client that shehad mm-hmm.
Who absolutely despisedreceiving oral and it was due
And this

Kari (14:00):
was the mail that despised receiving?
Yes, yes.

Casey (14:03):
He did not like receiving oral and his partner whenever
they were in sex therapy.
Mm-hmm.
Um, his partner, she was talkingabout it like, well, I, I want
to provide this, I want him toenjoy this.
But he does not.
Want it or like it or wantanything to do with it.
Ultimately, they came to thedecision that it's just not for
him.
Mm-hmm.
But it stemmed from the factthat he had been abused a lot

(14:24):
whenever he was a child, and sohe executed this complete
aversion to it and thelikelihood of it changing after
all these years and even goingthrough the therapy he was
trying to, and wanting to becomemore.
We're aligned with it, but itwas be, it became more about
accepting the fact that it justwasn't for him.
That

Kari (14:39):
wasn't gonna be

Casey (14:40):
for him.
Yeah.
So we have a lot of people thathave been through trauma, that
it's something that had beenforced on them or they had been
forced to perform acts mm-hmm.
That they're now in an adulthoodsay, this is, I'm completely
averted to it.
I have no intention of everdoing that.
I, it's not for me.

Kari (14:55):
Yeah.
I mean, I, unfortunately, I, Iknow women that were forced to.
Um, go through and act like thatat a very young age that it did
in return, make it be like,we're, that's a huge no for
them.
That's like, that's a boundary.
That's, that will never happen.
And, and I'm never going to tellsomeone how to deal with their
trauma because that's yourjourney and that's your personal

(15:16):
journey.
Yeah.
Um, but if you're listening tothis and you're like, wow, that
kind of like brains home, I dostrongly encourage you to like,
go through like what they callis like reclaiming.

Casey (2) (15:26):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (15:27):
Going through a process like that, it's not necessarily
going to be for everybody, buttrauma is, it's a unique, it's a
unique experience, and there'sways that you can overcome it.
And then there are ways thatyou, what you're saying is they
accepted it.
Hey, this is just not gonna befor me.
Yeah.
And that's also okay.
I can choose to overcome it or Ican choose to say.

(15:49):
This just as an act.

Casey (15:50):
Yeah.
You can reclaim it.
The power behind it.

Kari (15:52):
Yeah.
It's a beautiful thing, but it'snot for everyone.
No, it's not.
And you

Casey (15:55):
don't have to do that.
And that's a process that it's,that's one of those ones you're
like, all right, you need tofind a professional.
Mm-hmm.
That specializes in Absolutely.
In trauma therapy, that is sexpositive, that wants to help you
reclaim that power that can walkyou through exercise different
ways to, because that, that's avery, very fragile road to walk
on.
Yeah.
And there's a lot that can gowrong.
So that would be a point whereit's like, I'm not, don't talk.

(16:17):
It's not something you should belike.
I'm gonna consult my friendsabout how I should handle, but,
but I think

Kari (16:22):
it's important to understand that that therapy
even exists.

Casey (16:24):
Yeah.

Kari (16:25):
That is 100% a

Casey (16:26):
thing.
Many people don't understandthat, that there are great sex
positive, uh, trauma centeredtherapists out there who are
willing to sit down with you andhelp you reclaim that power
mm-hmm.
And help you understand and, andheal.
Ultimately from some of thetraumas that you've been
through, and there's like, ifyou need resources

Casey (2) (16:46):
mm-hmm.
Please

Casey (16:46):
reach out to us.
We have a large network ofpeople that can help out with
that kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
But that would be definitely onereason why somebody says, I
don't want to give, I don'twanna receive.
It's not for me.
It might be trauma centered.

Kari (16:57):
Yeah.
So, um, yeah, trauma.
And then the next one that wewrote down was, uh, purity
Culture.

Casey (17:04):
Fuck, purity.
Culture

Kari (17:06):
knew you were gonna lead with that.

Casey (17:09):
Uh, that, that just irks me.
Like you're, you're sitting backand saying, well, because of my
religion, and look, I'm gonnarespect your religion if that's
your choice and all that.
But if you're having people sitback and you've lived your
entire life being told that youneed to be pure and that you
need to keep yourself modestand.
Clean and mm-hmm.

(17:29):
Submissive, like I hate allthose words you just said.
You except for submissive.

Kari (17:35):
Okay.
That's for

Casey (17:39):
security.
Culture has done damage to somany people and it's most, for
me, mostly due to the factbecause it's thrust upon people.
Mm-hmm.
It's not something where theyare choosing to be a part of it.
It's not something where theyhave been, um.
Introduced kindly to it.
It's just pushed on you mm-hmm.
From a young age, and you'retold that you need to be pure,

(18:01):
that you're told that certainyour, that your genitals are
disgusting and you're told thatthese acts are for behind closed
doors between only a certaintype of person and that other
than that, it's gross andimmoral and all sorts of stuff,
and we're looking at it andgoing, there's, there's very
little basis in reality for yourclaims.

(18:21):
Yeah.
There really is.
And for the fact that you wannasit back and then use that,
leverage it to create thingslike legislation around it.
You wanna use it to try tocontrol the way that your, that
your kids are taught about sexin school.
All of this, it's not creatingno great adults.

Kari (18:39):
It just doesn't work.
It's not realistic.

Casey (18:41):
It's not, it's, it's been

Kari (18:42):
shown that it doesn't work.

Casey (18:44):
Yeah.

Kari (18:44):
You can have people that go through and like.
The complete opposite becausethey were raised in such like a
purity culture.
But what it also takes away fromis consent, in my opinion.

Casey (2) (18:53):
Yeah.

Kari (18:53):
Purity culture completely cuts out any level of consent
that a woman then has.

Casey (18:58):
Oh, yeah.

Kari (19:00):
Because instead,

Casey (19:00):
go, go on, go on.

Kari (19:01):
Well, no, I'm just saying like instead of sitting there
and saying that like.
I have a, a choice to what'sgoing to happen with my body.
Mm-hmm.
They remove that because it's,it's not your choice.
It goes against what you shouldwant.
You shouldn't want this.
Right.
You, you shouldn't, this isn'tyour body.
It's not

Casey (19:17):
okay to enjoy.
Pleasure.

Kari (19:18):
Not for a woman.
Absolutely not.
How dare you?

Casey (19:21):
She's supposed to guard this gift.

Kari (19:23):
Yeah.

Casey (19:23):
And she's supposed to give it away to one person.

Kari (19:26):
Okay.
And then where does purityculture go in when someone's
abused As a child?

Casey (19:29):
Yeah.

Kari (19:29):
Right.
Like I went through purityculture and I was abused as a
child.
That fucked my meat up.
Yeah.
Because then I thought for abrief period, and I've moved
past it, but I thought that Iwas now no longer good enough.

Casey (19:42):
Right.

Kari (19:43):
Because I, you thought that you were like

Casey (19:45):
unclean and that you'd been tainted.
I was

Kari (19:46):
unclean.
I wasn't able, I was the problemwhen what happened to me wasn't
my fucking problem.

Casey (2) (19:52):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (19:53):
That was that person's problem and I was just a product
of that.

Casey (2) (19:56):
Yeah.

Kari (19:57):
But then through purity culture, it did give me an
obscure view on what my rolewas.
Yeah.
As a person.
Yeah.
It's just, it's unfortunate and even the same
thing as like, I know I went ona little bit different, but
talking about purity culture,even as simple as when it comes
to giving oral mm-hmm.
I had plenty of women tell methat it goes against what they
believe that oral is nasty.

(20:18):
That that is not, I would neverdo that show is just disgusting

Casey (20:23):
if you grow up being told that like genitals are unclean
and, and gross and private.
Exactly.

Kari (20:27):
It's completely gross.

Casey (20:28):
So then you're gonna grow up and be like, well now I still
believe that all this things aregross and that there's, all of
that stuff should just, itshould just be left alone and we
should give strange nicknames.

Casey (2) (20:38):
Yeah.

Casey (20:39):
To the body parts.
Like, hoo-ha, that's, it's notgonna create a good environment
for you to really be able toexplore the pleasure side that
you're so capable of.
Mm-hmm.
So purity culture is there alot.

Kari (20:50):
Jesus

Casey (20:50):
Christ.

Kari (20:51):
Yes.
We're allowed to, everyone

Casey (20:53):
should have that level of autonomy, like, come on.

Kari (20:57):
Um, so the next one that we wrote down, um, was
withholding

Casey (21:01):
this.
This is a big one and we, wehear about this a lot where
people weaponize sex or withholdthings in a relationship in
order to have personal gain,

Kari (21:12):
which is interesting'cause our last episode was.
Weaponizing sex, but in apositive light.
In a beautiful, fun.
Yeah.
Well we were, we were talkingabout gamifying it.
Yeah.
Oh, gamifying.
Thank you.
I'm sorry, I just said the wrongword.
You're right.
But gamifying, so I think it'sfunny that now this episode
we're kind of talking about likethere's a way to gamify your
relationship mm-hmm.
And a way, way to weaponize yourrelationship.

Casey (21:31):
Yes.
And we've seen it before.
We've had friends that have toldus, oh, well I stopped.
Mm-hmm.
I stopped providing this, thisservice or, or engaging in this
act until I got what I wanted.
Yeah.
And we want to discourageanybody from.
For making choices like that,sex is something that you engage
in because it provides youpleasure and your partner
pleasure.

(21:51):
Um, if you take it down to justthe basic of this, it making it
all about

Kari (21:55):
what can I gain from

Casey (21:56):
this?
Yeah.

Kari (21:57):
And if I, if I can't gain something, then why do I wanna
do it?

Casey (22:00):
Yeah.
Punishing your partner bywithholding Yeah.
Sex is, is not a, a great wayto, uh, to engage with anything
you're part of.
And

Kari (22:08):
that's the difference between like.
I am upset with them and I don'twanna give them oral.
Yeah.
That's not what we're sayingright now.
Yeah.

Casey (22:14):
We're arguing right now, and I'm not in the mood be, to
be sexual with you is one thing,

Kari (22:18):
but like I want this new TV and until I get this new tv,
you are not receiving oralpleasure from me until I get
what I want.

Casey (22:27):
Yeah.
I'm gonna start classicallyconditioning my partner to every
time they do the dishes, I godown on them and then they'll
start doing the dishes morewithout me asking

Kari (22:35):
really works ladies.

Casey (22:36):
And then if they stop doing the dishes.
That I'm going to withhold andbe like, Nope, not tonight.
That to me is like, come on.

Kari (22:44):
Have I possibly conditioned you before?
No, I don't think I have.

Casey (22:47):
No,

Kari (22:48):
I think there's maybe been some where it all like, it
triggered like thinking you weregonna get head like the scene we
put my hair up.
Yeah.
Right.
Like that can sometimes be likea, I mean it's, it's more, it's
more

Casey (22:58):
of a rousing versus versus I know what this means.
You know, it's, it's more of anarousing act.
Um, I think that we've had inthe past where you've been like,
Hey.
If you really want head rightnow, do this and I'll, and I'll
go down on you for that.
I'm like, okay, sure.
I, we've definitely engaged inthat.

Kari (23:15):
I've definitely been guilty of that.
But to me, I view that asgamifying, I withholding from
you.
It's, I want, it's

Casey (23:21):
playful, it's fun.

Kari (23:22):
It's like, go give me ice cream and I'll give you heads.
That's.
That's how we use it.

Casey (23:28):
Ver versus, I'm mad at you because you didn't do this.
Now you're not getting anythinguntil you start doing it again.
Yeah.
That, that can be hugelyproblematic.

Kari (23:36):
Well, just very manipulative in the relationship
because it's also thinking thatyou have the right to control
that level of.
Whatever for your partner.

Casey (2) (23:47):
Yeah.

Kari (23:47):
That's not for you to sit there and take away and give as
you choose and see fit, like, Idon't know.

Casey (23:52):
All you're gonna do is create a ton of resentment in
the relationship.

Kari (23:55):
Yeah.
Now the next one that we wrotedown, and I've heard people say
this, I do not feel this way.
Um, but people don't necessarilylike giving head because then
they make them.
Or it feels like they're in asubmissive role.
Yeah.
'cause now they're the onegiving or performing the act.
Yeah.

Casey (24:10):
Because I'm down here, I'm lower.
Yeah.
I'm lower than, I'm less thanand all that.
And I'm performing something inyou.
You and I have the same view onthis, and that's providing oral
for someone is a very empoweringthing.
It's a very much an in controlthing.
Yeah.
I feel like I'm in control ofyour pleasure.

Casey (2) (24:26):
Yeah.

Casey (24:27):
I feel like I'm in control of your body right now.
By going down on you, by, byproviding all this for you, all
this pleasure.
And because I know what youlike, I'm able to do that in
such a way that, again, I don'tfeel submissive.
I don't feel like I'm, I'm, youknow, down here doing something.
I feel like I'm in control.

Kari (24:46):
See, I've said this to women before and I'm like,
submissive.
His cock is in your mouth.

Casey (24:52):
You can bite it off if you wanted to.

Kari (24:55):
You can control anything that's happening right now in
this moment.
You are the most in control.

Casey (25:01):
Yeah.

Kari (25:02):
You've got the two most gentle things on his body right
there.
Just give him a flick in theballs.
Well top right on the ball.
Like, could not be more incontrol.
But I don't know.
I mean, I, I will say it took mebecoming a little bit older
before I realized the controlthat I had.

(25:23):
Yeah.
But in the beginning it feltvery submissive.
Mm-hmm.
So I do get that mindset.
But I do feel like it's still asexually immature mindset
because it took me growingmaturely to be like, oh no, fuck
that.
Like.
He's my bitch.

Casey (2) (25:39):
Is that the, is that the way

Casey (25:40):
you're viewing that when I'm

Kari (25:41):
giving you head every time?
Just know that

Casey (25:45):
I would say it's circumstantial.
We can include the time.
Yeah, we can include the time iswhere I have a handful of the
back here and uh, and I'mthrowing you around like a
ragdoll, consensually.

Kari (26:01):
So, uh, we are gonna kind of flip it a little bit.
So again, the, the first onethat we gave you, those are like
reasons that we've heard to notgive head, but we just don't
really support that.
Like, we hear you, but we, wehope that some of the things
that we had discussed could evenget you to kind of like, maybe
flip that mindset a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
And be like, how can I then givehead in a way that's empowering

(26:23):
to me or through my trauma orthrough saying, fuck the purity
culture.
Yeah.
Now I'm gonna go in and doing itthrough a different mindset.
I.
Um, but yeah, no.
Now these are reasons that wefound that people love.

Casey (26:34):
Mm-hmm.
Love

Kari (26:35):
to get pet.

Casey (26:36):
And are these personal reasons?
Couple of them.

Kari (26:38):
I mean, some of them are, yeah.
But I mean, again, we talk aboutsex all the time, the stories
that we get from people, and Ilove people's ability to just
immediately open up to us.
But it just happens even.
When we were in Nickel City thispast weekend and we were just
hanging out.
Mm-hmm.
These stories just startedcoming out and I'm like, no,
it's fine.
Speak me more.
Yeah, go ahead.
Tell us about it more.
I love it.
I wanna hear these things.
So anyways, um, so the first onethat I actually written down

(27:01):
was.
The last one that we had writtenfor the other, which was being
submissive, flipping it tobeing, yeah.
It's personal, like powerdynamic.

Casey (27:09):
Yeah.
It creates a lot of empowerment.
Yeah.
I know.
I know you knew this.
I know that, that this is theway that I see it.
Like if I, whenever I'm inbetween your legs mm-hmm.
And I'm using my tongue or myfingers or anything else, I feel
like I can just move around andI know areas that I'm going to
hit mm-hmm.
That are just going to.
Create sparks.

Casey (2) (27:28):
Yeah.

Casey (27:28):
And it's just gonna have like your change in body
language, your change inbreeding patterns, your change
and, and vocal tone.
Mm-hmm.
I can, it's almost like you're apuppet.
Yeah.
And I can just be in control.
I mean, you're paying

Kari (27:39):
attention to each of those cues.
Yeah.

Casey (27:41):
I can be in full control of how you react to the things
that I'm doing.
And so that to me is superempowering and I'm sure you feel
the same way about getting head.

Kari (27:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a very big like powerthing.

Casey (27:56):
Now, is there a difference for you?
We go back to that likedifference between going down on
a penis and going down on avulva.

Kari (28:02):
Um, I mean, you had talked a

Casey (28:03):
minute ago about saying like, oh, it's harder to tell if
a woman's feeling pleasure.

Kari (28:07):
And it's a lot hard to tell with women.
It's a lot harder to tell.
Um.
I personally, I personally wouldsay that I prefer still going
down on a male.
Mm-hmm.
I have that power dynamic feelwhen I go down on, on a male.

Casey (2) (28:22):
Yeah.

Kari (28:22):
Uh, on a woman, it's probably still little insecure.

Casey (2) (28:26):
Yeah.

Kari (28:26):
I'll be honest.
Um, but to me it's not a power.
I don't know.
For me, when I'm a woman, it'slike a.
Opportunity.

Casey (2) (28:36):
Okay.

Kari (28:36):
You're allowing me to, to do this with like, guys, I don't
necessarily feel that

Casey (28:41):
way.
Wait, wait, wait.
No, no, no.
Let's, yeah, let's dive intothat further.
You're allowing me, so you feellike it's a,

Kari (28:46):
like, I'm like, like you're

Casey (28:47):
not, like you are in more of a submissive position.
Not let's less empowering withyou.

Kari (28:51):
It is less empowering for me and more like, it's just a
different connection.

Casey (28:58):
Okay.

Kari (28:59):
It's a very different connection.

Casey (29:00):
See, I, I think that women are more complex.
People do.
Like, for me it's, I, I mean,I've never gone down on a penis
yet, but
yeah.
It's something that I'm like, I feel like it's a p like
it is a puzzle and I, I enjoysolving puzzles, so whenever I
get those kind of cues mm-hmm.
Of, of some of the things I'vealready described.
Yeah.
The woman with a woman that I'mable to be like.
Okay.
I know that this is working.

(29:21):
I can like feel the movements.
Mm-hmm.
I can feel like littletightenings or muscular
distractions.
That's,

Kari (29:26):
that's been very rewarding when you

Casey (29:26):
are Yeah.

Kari (29:27):
Going down on,

Casey (29:27):
yeah.
You get close towards, or orgasmand they start like their pelvic
floor starts tightening a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Or there's just like movementsof legs tightening up, things
like that.
Uh, increase in breathing,moaning and that kinda stuff
that you're able to go like,okay, this is working.

Kari (29:41):
I don't know.
I mean, I hate to say it, Ithink it's more rewarding to go
down on, on a vulva than apenis.

Casey (29:45):
Yeah.

Kari (29:46):
But it's also because my level of like.
Penis di vulva is, is still,most you get from a

Casey (29:51):
penis is a engorgement and then a come shot.

Kari (29:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And a lot of work in between allthat and a lot, but yeah,

Casey (29:59):
a lot of fun work.

Kari (30:00):
Yes.
It's my favorite.
Oh, shut up babe.
You get had a lot.

Casey (30:06):
I do.

Kari (30:07):
A lot.

Casey (30:08):
I do.
And I, and I appreciate everysingle time with equal
enthusiasm.

Kari (30:15):
Okay.
Let's see.
So, uh, oh, this was the onethat, that would, that you had
written out, like reasons togive head was, uh, exploration
and Pleasure

Casey (30:23):
mapping.
And pleasure mapping.
Yes.
So

Kari (30:25):
it, you talk, I want you to like, dive into that

Casey (30:26):
like what pleasure mapping is.
Yes.
So the, this is going to be alimited scope on, on discussing
it right now because intypically pleasure mapping is
referring.
To finding like all the parts inyour partner not concentrating
on, not just,

Kari (30:40):
yeah, on the,

Casey (30:41):
not concentrating on like, pleasure organs.
Yeah.
Uh, penis, vulva and those kindof things.
Um, but more of like the entirebody.
Where is it on their feet?
They receive pleasure.
Where is it on their legs,their, their knees, their
thighs, all the way head to toeand really concentrating on the
things that your partnerindividually.
Is turned on by, aroused byfeels pleasure.

(31:01):
Through that you can touch notonly with your hands, but with
objects.
Mm-hmm.
And so there's, it's, there's alot that can be done whenever it
comes to pleasure mapping, butyou can also use pleasure
mapping if you're learning yourpartner and how to, uh, perform
oral on them.
Yeah.
So say that, you say thatyou're, you're pleasuring a
penis and you're like, allright, well, I wanna know what's
gonna really feel good to him.

(31:22):
Most people are gonna sit backand be like, well, I know that
if I like.
Suck on the head of his penis,then it's gonna feel good.
Mm-hmm.
If I move my hand on the shaftwhile doing the same thing, it's
probably going to feel good.
Yeah.
However, one of the things you can do is, all right,
well where would I, where wouldthey feel more pleasure?
Is it gonna be if I like griparound the base of the penis or
more near the top?
Like more where, where my lipsare,

Kari (31:43):
like gripping the base and swirling your tongue around the
top of it.
Exactly.

Casey (31:46):
Mm-hmm.
Like how do they react to thatversus maybe like putting your
hand against your mouth andgoing in Yeah.
Up and down and, and.
Putting it in and outta yourmouth.
Yeah.
Is that like, what are theygonna like more?
Now?
The odds are they're gonna loveboth of them, but you can always
put a little bit of, or you canfind out top five moves.
Yeah.

Kari (32:03):
Or you can even find out like which move they like better
as they're closer to coming.

Casey (32:07):
Yeah.

Kari (32:08):
Because as a penis owner, I'm imagine mm-hmm.
It can change.
Like there are certain ways.
Or things that you would wantduring the buildup that you
wouldn't want as you werecoming.
Yeah.

Casey (32:17):
I know that we've talked about this like this before.
Like squeeze them too hardmaybe.
Yeah, exactly.
The more, the more pressure youapply or do they need lighter
pressure as get closer tocoming?
Um, one of the ones we hadtalked about is there's like
that really good move where youcould uh, or you could ma like
jerk them off while like usingyour tongue just on, just on the
freni limb.
Mm-hmm.
So like the backside, the, theright where the, the head of the

(32:38):
penis meets.
Yeah.
And the backside of it.
Using that.
That's a really good Wanna do.
Twisting your hand versus moveyour hand just up and down.
Exactly.
Um, and

Kari (32:45):
then, so that, those are all different things of like
pleasure, pleasure mapping,essentially it's just, right now
we're just pleasure mapping thecup,

Casey (32:52):
just the penis.
So then let, let me ask youthis.
What do you feel like you arethe top three moves that you
enjoy doing,

Kari (32:59):
not receiving?
Do it?
Yeah.

Casey (33:01):
This is, this is performing on a penis.
We're still on penises rightnow.

Kari (33:03):
Um.
I do a, I do a lot.

Casey (33:08):
You do.

Kari (33:08):
I would say we, we,

Casey (33:10):
we both like you.
You do explore and that's been alot highly encouraged.

Kari (33:14):
Well, sometimes it's to a fault.
Yeah.
Sometimes you'd be like, what'dyou do that last time?
No.
Fuck clue what I did.
I forgot what I did.
Okay.
I really do something new almostevery time.
15 years of trying no shit onyour dick.
Has been, we

Casey (33:28):
have had that, and it's usually one of those things
where like, I'll stop you and belike.
Whatever you just did, rememberthat.

Kari (33:34):
And, and there are ones that I will, so like the, you
know, swirling of the tongue.

Casey (33:39):
Yeah.

Kari (33:41):
That's one that you really like or

Casey (33:43):
what's, what's the, what is it?
I can't remember.
There's actual specific name forthis and I can't remember, but
it's like where you put yourLuther and

Kari (33:48):
just name all of where

Casey (33:49):
you put your lips right at the tip and then suck in like
heavily.

Kari (33:53):
So I'll do that, but I'll use my tongue to pull.
Yeah.
The tip of your penis into mymouth.
Yeah.
And so you just go up and downon the head.
Yeah.
So I'm not just like sucking itin.
Yeah.
I'm like slowly

Casey (34:04):
and forcefully

Kari (34:05):
and forcefully gliding.
I know.
There,

Casey (34:08):
I can't think of it off the top of my head.
I wish we had like a producerright here.
I could be like, look it up.

Kari (34:12):
Right.

Casey (34:13):
But there's a specific, it's like a something kiss or
something like that.
There's a name for it.
Um, so yeah, that would be a a,a good one.
But all

Kari (34:19):
of that came through me just being very curious on what
you like.
Yeah, just like amidst the verysame for me, like Yeah.
I feel like sometimes yourpartner's pleasure is only going
to be as good as your looking toexplore.

Casey (2) (34:33):
Yeah.

Kari (34:34):
If you're not looking to explore or try something new or,
or be a interest with yourpartner, they're probably not
receiving the best level.
Of pleasure.

Casey (34:43):
Right.
A lot of it has to do with onepresent time, consciousness
being in the moment.

Kari (34:47):
Mm-hmm.

Casey (34:47):
Um, a lot of it has to do with like, how are you paying
attention and listening to yourpartner?
In those times.
And then partners, how good areyou at communicating the
pleasure in receiving?
Are you somebody that sitsthere?
I made a, I think I made a, Imade a comment to somebody's,
uh, like read it after dark posta while back where it was
talking about somebody thatasked about blow jobs.

(35:08):
And it was about like, guys,and, and like not moaning or
moving around much.
Mm-hmm.
Like that.
And I said, I'm a firm believerthat if more men were more
communicative during blow jobs,then they would receive them
more.
If you're sitting there like adead fish and just going.

Kari (35:23):
While

Casey (35:23):
she's going down on you and then you, like, you don't
make any movements and thenbloop, you come and you're like,
wow, that was great.

Kari (35:29):
I have never had someone, so where's the fun in that?
I have never had someone justlay there.

Casey (35:33):
I, that's personal experience for me.
I'm just saying there's plentyof people who are like, Nope,
my, my boyfriend was just astarfish, just a fish like dead.
They're just lying there doingnothing.

Kari (35:45):
I guess maybe, I don't know.
I just, it's so funny that wefeel like we have such different
views on it.
'cause for me, I'm like.
Women don't say shit.
Men, it's very obvious what theylike, but now you're like, men
just sit there and don't doanything.
And that probably is, both ofthem are right, right?
Like, yes, both of'em are right.
It's just funny to, it's notabout the gender,

Casey (36:05):
it's about the person.
There's plenty of people that,well, if you

Kari (36:07):
were better at giving head to men, then maybe they wouldn't
just lay there and maybe thatwouldn't be your experience.
And I

Casey (36:12):
already said, I have yet.
I've already said I have notpleasured a penis yet.
You have

Kari (36:17):
not yet.
Have not either way.
Honestly, it's not male orfemale.
It's just are you finding theperson that's communicating with
you?
Yeah.
And if you're down there andyou're fucking pleasure mapping
and you're doing your job Yeah.
As a person, receiving it isn'talso your job to communicate.

Casey (2) (36:35):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (36:35):
What you like and what you don't like.

Casey (36:37):
Yes.

Kari (36:38):
And it's not easy to do, but now that you've, now

Casey (36:40):
that you've diverted from answering the question enough,

Kari (36:43):
you're welcome.
I was asking,

Casey (36:44):
I was asking you about like, what are your favorite
ways to place your penis?
Where, are there any specificmoves where you're like, and I
don't mean specifically for me.
No.
I, this can be of somethingwhere you're like, you know what
I like doing?

Kari (36:57):
I, I think it is for me though, the, the being more
theatric about it.
Yeah.
If, if my number one, thatdoesn't put me into a specific,
like.
Thing I'm doing on the penis.
Yeah.
But being theatrical, that wouldbe my number one.
Yeah.
'cause all, but that comes withthe entire time from start to
finish.
Mm-hmm.
The looking up, the like soplenty

Casey (37:16):
of eye contact.
Yeah.

Kari (37:17):
Eye contact.
Using my hand, making surethere's saliva.
If I don't have enough saliva, Iknow the part of my throat to go
back to.
Which, I mean that's honestly,

Casey (37:24):
that's a technique that maybe not all viewers are, are
acquainted with.

Kari (37:28):
Yeah.
So if your mouth just gets dry,just really deep throat.
Fast and hard for like a fewpumps, and it will start to
build up your saliva.
Activate

Casey (37:37):
your sal gland.
Yeah, works.
Now if you find yourself, if youfind yourself that you're
somebody that has an issue withgoing deeper, then there's a
number of ways you can getaround that go slow like y'all
can side,

Kari (37:48):
side to side.
You'd be surprised.
You can go to the right side ofyour mouth.
You not gag as much as if you goto the left side of your mouth,

Casey (37:55):
you are different just like your partner is.

Kari (37:56):
Yes.
Like it doesn't seem like tinylittle alterations, but it
really does help.
Yeah.
There are times or positions,you're gonna have a better entry
level depending on the positionthat you're in.

Casey (38:08):
Mm-hmm.

Kari (38:09):
So like when you and I are in the shower.
I'm sitting down on our stool,

Casey (38:13):
on our blowjob stool,

Kari (38:14):
our blowjob stool.
Then I can, you're straightlevel with me.

Casey (38:18):
Yeah.

Kari (38:18):
I can give you head and you can go deep and it doesn't
bother me.
Mm-hmm.
But if you're laying down inbed.
I can't get as deep, right.
'cause now I'm hovering over,I'm hunched over, I'm not
getting the angle of beingsitting up straight

Casey (38:31):
mm-hmm.
With

Kari (38:32):
mouth just wide open.
Yeah.
You know,

Casey (38:34):
or like laying off the edge of the bed with, you know,
head.
That's another one that reallygood.

Kari (38:38):
But I, there's no control.

Casey (38:39):
No, that's, you're, that's what, that's, I'm the one
that has control in thatinstance.
At

Kari (38:43):
that point, you're just laying your head back.
Yeah.
That to me is not like givinghit.
Yeah.

Casey (38:48):
If you still, if you're somebody that's like, well, I
can't really deep throat, but Iwant to be able to have a lot of
saliva for this, my, my advicedrink something like a sugary
beverage.

Kari (38:56):
Yeah.

Casey (38:57):
Uh, probably the top one's gonna be like, get a
Gatorade.

Kari (38:59):
Gatorade.
That really helps build upsaliva.

Casey (39:01):
Get, get a Gatorade and like just start drinking it down
and you'll notice that you'llstart salivating a lot more,
your saliva be a lot moreviscous.
You

Kari (39:07):
can also fake like,

Casey (39:11):
Hmm,

Kari (39:12):
I was gonna say fake

Casey (39:12):
pretend to vomit.

Kari (39:14):
No, I mean, like,

Casey (39:15):
I thought you gonna be like just.

Kari (39:19):
But kind of, because if you, if you're like going
through a giving head and youbuild up your own like.
Reflex a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
It does help produce moresaliva.
Yeah.
You're not gonna like throw upon them, but it will help you
produce more.
S you

Casey (39:34):
can always saliva, you can always control and activate
your own gag reflex.
That's what I'm saying.
Like you and take your ownfingers and put'em, start to go
a lot down your throat a littlebit.
You're in more control or you

Kari (39:42):
just use a dick to do that.

Casey (39:43):
Yes.
But a dick doesn't have thedexterity of fingers.
But how

Kari (39:47):
sexy is it?
Hold on real fast.

Casey (39:50):
That's

Kari (39:51):
shoving my fingers down my throat.
Well, yeah.

Casey (39:52):
When you do it like that,

Kari (39:56):
there's no other way to do it

Casey (39:57):
there.
There's not only one way to doit, there's plenty of ways that
you could do that.
So

Kari (40:01):
you think it would be totally fine.
I'm giving you head.
We're in the moment.
I say, hold on, and I shove myfingers down my throat.
That to you, you're gonna belike, that's hot.

Casey (40:10):
I think when you describe it in such a way, no, it's not
appealing, but I think that ifsomebody's gonna do it, and the,
and it's communicated andexplained why.
Mm-hmm.
There's no reason why youcouldn't do it.
There's not a reason why youcouldn't do it.
But like, look, I, and if youboth understand I'm that, I'm
trying, I'm trying to get some,some saliva going.
You're just kind of push to theback of your throat with your
fingers.

(40:31):
Go for it.

Kari (40:31):
Yep.
Or you just use the dick that'sright in front of you.
Listen, you haven't given headso you don't get to say on this,

Casey (40:40):
huh?
Huh?
First of all, we weren't even,we're talking about creating
saliva and using your fingers,and you're talking about how
disgusting you think it is.
That's you.
You're one person.
Stop judging people for whatthey like.
Carrie.
Oh,

Kari (40:52):
I am saying.
Is that if a girl needs to buildup saliva, they're not gonna use
their hands.

Casey (40:58):
It's a technique.
It's one way to do it.
There's many ways to do it.
Just because it doesn't appealto you doesn't mean other people
might not be able to do it.

Kari (41:10):
Right?
Penis owner,

Casey (41:11):
uhhuh,

Kari (41:11):
so.
I'm gonna agree, disagree.
No,

Casey (41:15):
we're, we're still mo we're still going on with, with
not with that particular one,but

Kari (41:19):
yeah.
A different one.
But still we were, well, we'rejust dis

Casey (41:22):
dis No, just discussing ways in which you can pleasure a
penis.
I think that there's a lot of, alot of people that are still
like, well, wait a minute, whatelse?
What else can I do?
So what are some of your bigtips?
'cause you talked about eyecontact.
Theatrics.
Saliva, yeah.

Kari (41:35):
Yeah.
Being theatrical.
But also it again is, it isexploring it.
You have hands, you have amouth.
Yeah.
You have one object, right?
Like

Casey (41:44):
yeah.
Three.

Kari (41:45):
Three.
Well that's, no, you're right.
Two

Casey (41:47):
testicles, one shaft

Kari (41:49):
and a butt hole.
I was thinking the third was thebutt hole.
I was thinking like, dick ball Ihole,

Casey (41:54):
I can go, I can go.
Testicles shaft, head of thepenis.

Kari (41:58):
There's four.

Casey (41:59):
Yeah.
And per, per

Kari (42:01):
perm.
You like that one?

Casey (42:02):
Permium.
There you go.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Anus, all of these are areas,again, it's just,

Kari (42:06):
it is exploring inner

Casey (42:07):
thighs, legs.
Like, well,

Kari (42:08):
that's the other thing.
That's what I was about to say,is like, the thing is, is
exploring it,

Casey (42:11):
create sensations, various types.
'cause there

Kari (42:13):
are times that you don't, it's not just like, yes, I'm
going down on you, but you lovewhen I'm going down to you.
But I also, like you said, touchyour thigh, touch your stomach,
touch your body.
Because it is about likebuilding, explore that whole
level, uh, intimacy.
And so you're sitting thereasking like the best.
Thing to do for head is, andthat is it.
It is literally exploring it,getting into the moment.
Mm-hmm.
That's what I was said about thetheatrical, like getting into it

(42:35):
and then just exploring it.
Yeah.
Because in my opinion, like adick, you can't really go wrong.
Right.
Unless you're causing physicalharm to it,

Casey (42:44):
like biting it,

Kari (42:44):
squeezing too hard.
Some people are into that, butthen again, right.
They might be some people like,you know, cocking

Casey (42:50):
ball, torture,

Kari (42:51):
but you're not going to know that if you're not
exploring it.

Casey (42:53):
Yeah.
And

Kari (42:54):
then just to sit there and be like, I'm going to try
something new on you that I'venot done.
I would really like yourfeedback.

Casey (43:00):
Step outta your comfort zone.

Kari (43:02):
Mm-hmm.

Casey (43:02):
Have the, have the conversation and it's completely
okay.
'cause we've talked about likethe fact that sex doesn't need
to be spontaneous.
Oh, I get it.
They show it all the time infucking movies and, and TV
shows.
Oh, it should be spontaneous.
In this whimsical thing.
It's completely okay to scheduleout.
Performative acts with yourpartner.
Hey, you know what we're gonnado?

(43:23):
We're gonna sit down and I wantto give you a blowjob, but I
want to give you a blowjob andjust kind of explore.
Mm-hmm.
And I want you to tell me thingsthat you like what I'm doing,
and things that if it may feelgood, but it may not be your
favorite, let's figure out thethings that work really well for
you.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely do that and make, make the plan to do it and
sit down and do it and have acommunication session about it,

(43:45):
and then talk about itafterwards.
Oh.
What was some of your favorites?
What are, what are the thingsthat you, you'd like to see me
do more?

Kari (43:50):
Mm-hmm.
I just, it's so, it's crazy thatcouples don't ever think to sit
down and discuss it because wealways sit down and we discuss
what our finances mm-hmm.
Discuss, like what needs tohappen that week, what's going
on, like what our goals work,what does your work look

Casey (44:03):
like, what does mine look like?

Kari (44:05):
Very rarely do people sit down and be like, okay, this
week these are the intimacylevels that I want us to have.
Yeah.
This is like, I know that thisweek I'm really stressed out and
I'm really busy and I'm notgonna be able to, to be there
sexually with you, but what aremaybe some other things that we
can do to like.
Bring that into it, but to sitdown and just like have those
discussions again, we're talkingabout oral today.

(44:27):
That's the biggest thing.
If you can sit down and talkabout your finances, why can't
you sit down and talk aboutyour, your oral pleasure?
Yeah.
Or the things that you like, orthe things that you don't
necessarily like.
And I have found my own personalexperience is to tell you the
things that I didn't really likeafter the math.

Casey (2) (44:44):
Yeah.
'cause I

Kari (44:44):
would never, well, I, you know what I mean?
Like, I would never want to sitthere and make you feel insecure
about something that you'redoing.
During it.
Yeah.
So if, Hey, stop that.

Casey (44:53):
I don't like it.

Kari (44:54):
Yeah, exactly.
And if that's you, just becauseyou don't feel comfortable
saying it right then doesn'tmean you can't bring it up
later.

Casey (45:01):
And you can in the moment say things like, Hey, you know,
go a little faster, a littleslower.
Move your here, do all thatdifferent.
But

Kari (45:07):
you know, maybe it was like this whole, like, oh, you
really went in

Casey (45:09):
and just, just maybe don't go like, Ooh, stop that.

Kari (45:13):
Ew, no.
Ew.
That would be so uncomfortable.
Put it, pop on the head.
Stop it.
Don't do that again.
Unless they're like, like bityour claim.
You're like, no, but, but thewhole point again is just,

Casey (45:25):
I mean we're, yeah.
Let's, I think, why don't we gointo there?
You're talking about biting theclit.
I think we should go into Volvopleasures.
Okay.
After you, you had a point thatyou were about to make.

Kari (45:35):
I think you were, it

Casey (45:36):
sounded like a Jerry Springer's final thought coming
on.

Kari (45:38):
Oh, it was not.
Okay.
Wasn't I was, I was leading intosomething else, but that's
totally fine.
I agree.
We should say, because we talkedabout, like, we're talking about
pleasuring penises.

Casey (45:45):
Yeah.
Let's talk about pleasuringvulvas.

Kari (45:47):
What is, what is your tip?

Casey (45:49):
My biggest tips for those, um, one is one, one, take
your time.

Kari (45:54):
Yeah.

Casey (45:54):
Like we, it's, it's a very common fact that women
typically take a lot longer tofully arouse than men.
We're talking like 15, 20,sometimes 30 minutes to become
fully aroused.
Uh, for a lot of women, foreplayis the main course.
So treat it as such.
Yeah.
Um, whenever, whenever you startgoing down on a woman, you don't

(46:15):
need to start directly at thevulva.
You don't have to start, go intobeing like, I'm gonna shove my
fingers inside you and do allthis, and like, my goal is I'm
gonna get you to come right now.
Take your fucking time.
Like explore a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
Like we already said, right?
Take your hands.
Rub, like, rub along the neck,the clavicles, go along the
breast, move your way down.
Make your way down.

(46:35):
Kiss all over your partner.
Mm-hmm.
Show them how appreciated theyare before you make your way
down and actually start divingin and, and performing oral.
Now, whenever you are actuallyperforming oral, there's a few
different things that you cando.
Um, one, listen to their body.
Uh, I do firmly believe thatyour, the way that you're, like,
you're moving your legs the waythat you are.
Uh, I can feel the contractionsof your muscles going, the, the

(46:58):
quickness of your breath, theway that you moan and, and make
noise.
I feel like that's a decentindicator.
Now, of course, I would loveverbal cues.
It's like, that feels good, youknow, I like what you're doing.
Don't stop doing that.
Do it more, do it faster.
Do it harder, whatever it needsto be.

Casey (2) (47:12):
Yeah.

Casey (47:13):
Um.
From there, there's a, there's afew different good techniques,
like actual, like instructionaltechniques, because this, and in
fact, let me sidestep for asecond, because there was a, you
remember the movie, was itAmerican Pie?
Mm-hmm.
Back in the early two thousands,there was a scene in there.
Where, uh, it was the, I I'm notgonna remember the actor's

(47:34):
names, but the, the boyfriendwas wanting to, he was gonna go
down on his girlfriend.
Mm-hmm.
But he didn't know what the fuckhe was doing.

Casey (2) (47:39):
Yeah.
And

Casey (47:40):
his brother instructed him to go to the library and
there was like a secret hatchwith a little door you could
open that had a book in it.
And inside this book was like,these are the things you need to
do to make a girl come.
Which you then went andperformed on her and she had an
orgasm.
Mm-hmm.
And so they made it look like,it's like, no, there's a,
there's a method to it.
Yeah.
And the reality is, is there'sno, there's not.

(48:00):
Can you perform some of theseacts?
Sure.
Can you swirl your tongue aroundmore?
Can you concentrate more on theclit?
Can you concentrate more on the,the, the walls of the vagina?
Mm-hmm.
Can you go up to the front sideor backside of the cervix?
Yes.
And you should do all of thosethings and then communicate with
your partner if they like it ornot.
If they don't like it, maybestop.

Kari (48:18):
Yeah.

Casey (48:19):
But ask them in the moment.
Are there?
Well,

Kari (48:22):
and also like a.
Don't just ask, do you not likethis?

Casey (48:25):
Yeah.
Could it?
Yeah.

Casey (2) (48:27):
Could

Kari (48:27):
it be harder?
How does, how does that feel?
Could it be slower?
Yeah.
Could I add more pressure?
Could I add less?
Because just so they're saying,do you like this?
That's really hard for anyone toanswer.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
So it could you be more specificwith your questioning on Right.
What it is that you're doing.
Right.

Casey (48:44):
Does it feel good?
Just a yes or no.
You're like, oh, okay,

Kari (48:47):
yeah,

Casey (48:48):
great.
I'm just gonna keep doing that.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So have that clear communicationof being like a little more
pressure or ease up just alittle bit.
Mm-hmm.
I

Kari (48:55):
mean,

Casey (48:55):
going back to a penis pleasure, I've talked about you
with that.
With like hand grip.

Kari (48:58):
Mm-hmm.

Casey (48:58):
Like, hey, lighten up your grip a little bit.

Kari (49:00):
Yeah.

Casey (49:00):
I got really fucking

Kari (49:01):
strong hands.
You've gotta tell me that.
Kung

Casey (49:03):
fu grip, like real, real quick.

Kari (49:05):
I really strong hands

Casey (49:07):
out outside of that for, for somebody pleasuring a vulva.
Figure out which, if you'regoing to be fingering them,
figure out which fingers workbest.

Casey (2) (49:14):
Yeah, I

Casey (49:14):
mean, you're gonna, like, they may prefer it with like
your, your, which one finger ortwo?
They might prefer to have thatlike in and out motion versus
like the come here motion whereyou curl the fingers over.
They might like more pressure onthe front wall of the vagina
while you're doing that.
Um, they might like to havetheir clits, uh, simultaneously
stimulated at the same time.
Um, you might want to use yourfingers to finger them as well

(49:36):
as using your tongue on theirclit or anywhere else on their
body during that time.
Explore.

Kari (49:42):
Yeah, and like.
Just do not forget nipples when

Casey (49:49):
ask your partner how they, like their nipples being
played with, honestly, theirbreasts being harassed and
massaged.

Kari (49:55):
That's one that I don't feel like is as common to be
asked on truthfully.
So that's another,

Casey (49:59):
they're, they're trying to concentrate on just the one
area and they're neglecting anentire,

Kari (50:03):
but literally even women.

Casey (50:06):
Yeah.

Kari (50:06):
I, I, I will like stimulate you a little bit on
your nibbles whenever we're likebeing intimate and there are
times where you're like.
I can like

Casey (2) (50:13):
Yeah, for sure.
People

Kari (50:14):
that you like really like, and there are times where it's
like, eh, whatever, but like.
Exploration.
It

Casey (50:19):
creates another pleasure pathway.
Yeah.
Like it's not all the samething.
They're all different sensationsand they can all compound to
like, I like that, achieve thislike, really high level of
pleasure.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there is one, oh, what wasit called?
The Kevin Method.
I know we had gonna Yes, you canlook it up.
K-I-V-I-M.
It's a, it's a, it's a methodof, of pleasuring, a vulva in

(50:39):
which instead of being right infront of the person mm-hmm.
And so you'd be like, say, usinga tongue, uh, going straight for
them.
You actually turn to the side.
To where your tongue would beperpendicular to the vulva and
then you can move the tongueback and forth.
You're essentially taking likethe labium manure and the
clitoris and kind of pushing itside to side.
Yeah.
On one way.
And I won that one.

(51:00):
And that's supposed, that issupposed to be something that
provides a higher level ofpleasure.
Have you done that?
Yeah.
A number of times on you.
I have.
Tell

Casey (2) (51:06):
what you're doing.

Kari (51:07):
You know,

Casey (51:08):
a number of times on you.
I mean, as long as you're havinggood time, then we're good.
Right?
That's

Kari (51:13):
saying, I, I can't always stop going down there with your
tongue,

Casey (51:16):
but it's, it creates the communication portion of it that
creates a whole new level, levelof comfort.
Yeah, and that's one of mybiggest things is that I love it
whenever we sit back and we'reable to be like, enjoy the
pleasure side of things, have asession where it's like a
learning experience.
Where I'm like, whoa, whateveryou're doing right there.
Like, keep doing that.
Maybe go like a little bitfaster and then you start doing

(51:37):
it and I'm like.
Just achieve like a whole newlevel of, of intimacy and
pleasure.
And it makes us feel closertogether because we feel like we
now know our, our we each otherthat much more intimately.

Kari (51:52):
And I think it's that we care to know each other that
much

Casey (51:54):
more as you should.
Like

Kari (51:56):
that.
That's, I think a successful

Casey (51:57):
relationship is that's component.
It's comprised of people thatactually want actually just
talking care and

Kari (52:03):
want to know these things about their partners

Casey (52:05):
that aren't gonna fall into.
Just the same old routine of,and that that's one of the
reasons why so many sexualrelationships fall off is'cause
they fall into routine.
They're not continuouslylearning and growing.
They fall into that rut of,well, I know how to make'em
come, so I'm just gonna do thatreal quick and then I'm gonna
roll over and go to sleep.
There's no fun in that.
It's not making your sex lifeboring.

Kari (2) (52:25):
Have

Casey (52:25):
some fun.
You were in

Kari (2) (52:26):
charge of it.

Casey (52:27):
Yeah, you both are.

Kari (2) (52:28):
Yeah.

Casey (52:29):
Y'all sit down.
If you're not satisfied withyour sex life, sit down and talk
to your partner and be like,look, the biggest reason we're
not having sex right now is fora few reasons.
One of them is that our sex isboring.
Like we gotta pop one off realquick in the back room and then
just go about our lives.
Like figure out ways that youcan create more entertainment in
your sex life and through oralplay is a great one.

(52:49):
And guess what?
It doesn't even have to be aboutcoming.
You wanna, you wanna sit thereand tease your partner, edge
them for a while and make thatthroughout the day or throughout
a couple of days, you're gonnacreate some pretty intense
emotions there.
Yeah.
If you just continue to bringthem towards the edge, but no
orgasm.
Come on.
It creates some cool stuff.

Kari (53:08):
It really does it, it creates a lot.
Um, so with that, yeah, go homeEdge, your partner all the time.
Never let'em come and let usknow how that works.
All the time.
Never, not once.
Time down.

Casey (2) (53:21):
Let, how

Kari (53:22):
long do you think you could go, like torturous of
being,

Casey (53:28):
of being edged?

Kari (53:29):
Yeah, like just, I'm gonna like how long do you think you
could like actually go?

Casey (53:34):
I.
I like to set goals.
So I mean, if I set a goal, yougonna test

Kari (53:38):
this out?

Casey (53:38):
Yeah, sure.
You wanna, you wanna like make abet on Eric?
I know.
I was like, I really wanna

Kari (53:41):
know like what would be your like fuck this.
I'm done.
I'm asking you to make out.

Casey (53:46):
Alright, so, so we're gonna do this, we're gonna
report back next week.

Kari (53:49):
Okay.
Or two weeks.
'cause right now we're on two,two weeks right now we're on

Casey (53:52):
two week episodes.

Kari (53:52):
Yeah.

Casey (53:53):
So we'll report back in two weeks to see if I actually,

Kari (53:55):
so my guess is gonna be like five days.
Five days.

Casey (53:59):
That's a long time.
It is.

Kari (54:00):
It's,

Casey (54:02):
and that's, and that means I can't make myself come
either.
No, no,

Kari (54:05):
no, no, no, no, no, you cannot.
It's only through me edging youuntil the time that I let you
come.
But

Casey (54:12):
I'm

Kari (54:12):
gonna go like five days.
Are we, are we, are we betting

Casey (54:14):
on, is this like a betting thing?
I don't

Kari (54:15):
know how to do this because we just,

Casey (54:18):
we're gonna be following you around the house.
Like, come on, just please,please talk about empowerment.
I know, right?
Do the dishes.
Let me come, come on.
Um, I would, I would probably,I, I think that that five days
was being fairly liberal.
No, I would, I would ally likethree.
I would, I would probably, Iwill go four.

(54:38):
Okay.
I'm saying three.
I'm, I'm gonna call it at four.

Casey (2) (54:44):
Shit.

Casey (54:44):
Okay.
Four day.
What does it say?
Monday.
Wanna get

Casey (2) (54:46):
started on this?
We

Casey (54:47):
we're gonna start tomorrow.
Today's count.
Okay.
I

Casey (2) (54:49):
about to say, uh, we're gonna start that tomorrow.

Casey (54:53):
Four days.
We're gonna call it four days.
We'll report back in two weeksand see how it went.

Kari (54:57):
Okay.

Casey (54:58):
How about you?

Kari (54:59):
Me?
Yeah.
Are you

Casey (55:00):
participating in this?
You're gonna,

Kari (55:02):
you're

Casey (55:02):
gonna withhold.

Kari (55:03):
I'm not like that though.

Casey (55:04):
Okay.

Kari (55:05):
You can withhold and I don't come, I don't care.
It

Casey (55:08):
doesn't

Kari (55:08):
bother me.
I, I don't like, coming to me isnot, I wouldn't be like the
response you're having no

Casey (55:16):
eding edging.
Edging.
And now you're like, fuck, Ineed it.
I want to come.
Yeah.
I

Kari (55:19):
don't, I don't know that, I don't think that's a woman to
male thing.
I think that's just my personalthing.

Casey (55:23):
Yeah.

Kari (55:24):
Um,

Casey (55:24):
I mean, I agree with you.
I don't think it's, I don'tthink it's a gender thing.
Yeah.
I think it's a, I don't think, Ithink it's a personal,

Kari (55:28):
yeah.
I just think for me, I'm like,nah, it can be edge then,
whatever.
Yeah.
Okay.
No, I'd be curious how long I could go without having
any type of physical touch.
That would be something that I'dbe curious about.
That just sounds sad.
I know.
I was about to say, but thenlike, where's the fun?
And you'd get a even out, I feellike

Casey (55:43):
you would get depressed.
Like, nobody's touched me indays.
Yeah.

Kari (55:48):
I, I would be curious how long that would actually like.
Take for it to.
But anyways,

Casey (55:52):
we're not doing that psychological experiment.
I

Kari (55:54):
don't wanna do that one.

Casey (2) (55:54):
That's, that's

Casey (55:55):
just sad.

Casey (2) (55:56):
It's fun.
Mine

Kari (55:57):
is sad.

Casey (55:58):
Well, starting tomorrow we're gonna go, we're gonna see
if we can do a four day edge.
Edge, see what happens.
I'd be curious to know whatother people have done in the
past.
I'm sure there's people that arelike, we Ed for two weeks.
Like, great.
I, I applaud you for that.
That's not my preference.
Yeah.
But anyway, we'll see whathappens.
So for another episode ofNaughty By Nature, we're your
hosts.
I'm Dr.
Casey Sanders.
And

Kari (56:18):
I'm just Carrie.

Casey (56:19):
And we'll see you next time.