October 4, 2024 • 44 mins
Kari and Casey talk all things Kink including some bits of history, how kinks form, and how you can begin to talk with your partner about kink in an effort to introduce some into your love life!
Mentioned this episode
@shibaristudios
@wildflowerintimates
Book mentioned in this episode
Unlearning Shame by Devon Price, PhD
Available on AMAZON
resources mentioned
Mojoupgrade.com
bdsmtest.org
X confessions
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
casey (00:00):
Welcome to kinktober.
kari (2) (00:01):
I love kinktober.
casey (00:03):
It's one of the best times of the year, isn't it?
We're starting off this firstepisode of October and we're
going to be talking today aboutall things kink.
We're going to be talking abouta ton of stuff around it, but
we'll get there.
Yeah.
We'll get there.
kari (2) (00:16):
I mean, my two favorite things in one month,
Halloween and kink.
casey (00:19):
Yeah.
Kinktober.
Kinktober.
kari (2) (00:19):
October is literally my favorite
casey (00:21):
day after day.
We get to explore.
We get to build some goodcommunication skills.
We get to talk about a lot ofthings important to us.
Whenever it comes to kink.
And help people.
kari (2) (00:30):
Well, and I mean, our biggest kink, as I feel like the
whole world knows at this point,would be shibari.
Spicy
casey (00:37):
macrame.
kari (2) (00:38):
Yeah, exactly.
That's what
casey (00:39):
we like to call it, or human air jail.
kari (2) (00:40):
Lot of, lot of phrases for it.
Um, but I have noticed, andthat's probably our biggest one
that we like consistently
casey (00:49):
engage in, engage
kari (2) (00:50):
in with one another.
It's
casey (00:51):
probably going to be shibari, but it's, Why do you
think that is?
I mean, I know it's because I'vegot, yeah, it's like,
kari (3) (00:57):
You, I've got spicy brains.
Yeah.
And you are why
casey (01:01):
I, I hyper focus on that shit.
I get really concentrated.
I love the intricacies of it.
I love the aesthetics ofcreating harnesses and I love
how it allows me to.
Almost get to know your body andyour mind better because there's
so much communication that'snecessary for that.
And I didn't always have that.
Whenever we first started, youremember that
(01:21):
it was,
it was not pretty.
Um, and I don't mean the rope.
I mean, yeah, I was trying to doit.
Communication was not.
Yeah.
Cause I always took it likewhenever we first started, I
took it so.
So it's like ultra serious thatif something wasn't going the
way I wanted it to in thebeginning, I got real
frustrated.
kari (2) (01:37):
I mean, I, but I understood it though.
Like you can't, you have tolearn something before you can
like.
Play with it.
Yeah.
You
know what I mean?
Like with anything, you have tolearn how to do it before you
can kind of start or even likenot play with it, but start to
become more creative with it.
You were so focused on gettingit done.
Right.
No, no, no.
(01:57):
This rope has to be right here.
casey (02:00):
Exactly.
So that was one of the big onesthat we, I eventually learned
was like, it's not the way to dothis because I was going, all
right, I learned, you know, thisharness, and so these ropes need
to be in this exact position.
Placement and that's not thecase at all by moving them.
You allow the person to thebottom, the buddy, do you have,
be more comfortable, notexperience, you know, damage or
anything like that.
(02:20):
And me, I was so mechanisticabout it that I forgot to add in
that human element.
kari (2) (02:24):
Yes, you did.
And, but, but I also didn't knowhow to receive it either.
Right?
Like you were learning to be arigor at the same time I was
learning to be a bottom.
Um, and, That is in part on whatwe talk about in our classes.
casey (02:38):
This is exactly where we're headed.
It is segue there.
I'm
kari (2) (02:42):
really good at this.
Thank you.
casey (02:44):
So because of all the the work that we've put in for this
over the last Quite a long timeat this point, it's allow us,
it's allowed us to start toshare with other people, um, how
to begin to do these things.
And so we formulated a couple ofdifferent classes, all centered
around just introduction toShabari, like talking about the
(03:04):
different types of rope thatthere are talking about the
different basic, you know,frictions and tensions that we
can work through and showingpeople how they can use it for
bedroom play and a safe.
And fun way.
kari (2) (03:16):
And what I really like about our class that we offer is
again, you're going to get theexperience from the bottom as
much as the information on theropes.
And I, and again, like I said,like we don't really, there are
classes on how to bottom all daylong.
Yes.
But I haven't necessarily seen aclass that offers both where,
(03:37):
and at least not like localizedto where we are.
And so offering the Again, thatthe like information on the
rope, on the tying, on thecommunication, um, that's what
really sets our classes apart.
I do believe.
And then also it's going to makeit very fun introduction.
So it's kind of for both partiesbecause when we do the classes,
it's a couple class
casey (03:59):
for now, I mean, we do couples and it's an inclusive
class.
So everyone is welcome.
We enjoy the diversity that weget to experience for there and
the people we get to meet andthe things we get to learn
about.
A lot of, a lot of the peoplethat are interested in Shabari.
Yeah.
So it's, it's this coolcommunity that we try to create
where it's not.
Super like academic in nature.
We're not trying to be that,like we just said, mechanistic
(04:22):
in our approach.
It's tries to be very informaland something that allows people
to feel comfortable and itallows people to quickly build
the trust with each other andwith us so you can You can have
that advance.
kari (2) (04:35):
Yeah.
And so we have two classescoming up.
When are they?
casey (04:38):
So the first one that we're going to be having is
we're partnering with our goodfriends at Shibari Studios, um,
here in North Fort Worth.
We're going to be doing that onthat one is October the 15th.
That starts at six 30 and we'regoing to go for a few hours just
until we're done.
Um, that one, if you've neverheard of or been to Shibari
Studios, you've got to checkthese guys out.
Um, you can check out Shibarisupply official on Instagram, or
(05:00):
you can check out Shibaristudios.
On Instagram.
The place that they've createdthere has like 20 plus hard
points.
Yeah.
It's
kari (2) (05:07):
basically this warehouse that you walk into
that.
They made it this beautiful, setup.
Like you said, they have rigs.
They have
casey (05:14):
lighting, sound.
Tooth.
Two stories would like anobservation deck for whenever
they host events.
I it's a big place.
Yeah.
kari (2) (05:22):
It's literally everything that you need and
that the, he sells ropes there.
Um, and so it's, it's such acool setup and I'm, it's just so
conveniently close to us.
casey (05:32):
And they, they offer memberships.
So the one thing that you needto know is that when it comes to
doing a lot of this, one of thebiggest topics.
The two biggest topics areconsent and safety.
So they offer memberships thatputs you through a background
check to make sure that, youknow, you don't have any, but
there's no criminals coming in.
There's no consent violatorscoming in and they have, they've
been in this community for solong that they have connections
(05:54):
to all of the dungeons aroundtown, all the places in DFW who
they can cross communicate withto make sure it's a fun and safe
environment for attendees.
kari (2) (06:03):
And in all honesty, like as a rope bottom, that is,
that's Something that like canjust be in the back of your mind
because typically when you, whenyou're Thai, you're in tighter
clothing, you're, and you'rebeing observed and it's, it
creates a really safe place toknow that we are being observed
around like minded, safeindividuals.
(06:24):
Exactly.
And then we got another locationthat we're, so
casey (06:26):
that was our first class.
Again, that one is going to beon October 15th at 6 30 PM.
Um, and the other one that we'regoing to be having, we're super
excited about this.
You've heard us talk in the pastabout wildflower intimates and
grace without wildflowerintimates.
Um, her shop is amazing.
Anything you could want out ofthe perfect bra fittings.
Yeah, it's in South Fort Worth
kari (2) (06:46):
off of Magnolia.
We went in there for a visitjust to kind of like introduce
ourselves.
Um, she sized me up in a second.
casey (06:55):
Eyeballed it really and it was damn near perfect.
kari (2) (06:57):
It was, yeah, it was literally the perfect size.
It was the most comfortable braI have ever worn.
I ended up finding out that Iwas like, Not in the size that I
should have been in.
Um, which might be why I'm not abra wearer, you know, because
they were so uncomfortable.
Um, but the bras that she placedon me, I just, I felt so like a,
(07:17):
like a swaddled baby on mybreast.
Like it was.
So
casey (07:22):
comfortable.
I have no idea what that feelslike, but I'm going to assume
it's really nice.
Maybe like
kari (2) (07:27):
the tightest boxers, you know, to something that just
really holds the balls up likeI, I was so comfortable in these
bras and, but anyway, she has abeautiful space and we're going
to be working with her.
Now understand that this one'sgoing to feel more like this one
is more about intimacy.
Yeah, this one's going to be alittle bit more intimate.
(07:48):
We're still going to go verymuch on education, but it's
going to be a lot more on playwith it.
So that's
casey (07:54):
the goal of the, of that class we're going to do for a
two hour course.
From seven to nine on November9th, that one is going to be
more around.
Let's teach you a couple ofbasic ties, get through some of
the work so we can show you howthis can be utilized to increase
the intimacy in yourrelationship.
It's very much going to becentered around like.
Movements and flow about how todo something that can, it can
(08:16):
really drive you in thatspiciness level in the bedroom.
So it's, it's a very kinky onethat we're going to be doing.
So I think we're excited aboutboth of them, but that kind of
leads us into our topic fortoday.
Yeah,
that we're going to be discussing and today is all
about because it's kinked overbecause it's kinked over because
everyone wants to know aboutgood kinks.
We
kari (2) (08:34):
do.
casey (08:34):
We decided that we're going to take a the today's
episode to really discuss allthings kink.
Yeah, I think we want to kind ofstart off with this is the
origin of kink.
Where does kink come from?
Yeah,
kari (2) (08:45):
start from the beginning.
casey (08:46):
So you have, I mean, everyone at some point in their
lives, I feel like Experience iskink on some level.
Um, you may not always engage init, but people fantasize
fantasizes it's healthy, it'snatural, and it leads into you
saying, you know what?
I have this interest that kindof is a recurring theme in my
fantasies that I'd like to try.
And unfortunately we've had alot of people, especially in
(09:11):
Western culture, villainizedkink.
To say that it's unhealthy, thatit's weird, to say that it's a
result of trauma.
So we want to take a minute toclarify, do a little bit of myth
busting, and show you what kinkis kind of all about.
kari (09:23):
Are you calling me Carrie from Mythbusters?
Was
casey (09:26):
there a Carrie on Mythbusters?
kari (09:27):
Yes! It was the main girl! Her
kari (3) (09:29):
name was Carrie! Do you know how
casey (09:30):
many episodes of Mythbusters I've seen?
kari (3) (09:32):
Not a lot, clearly!
casey (09:34):
Not, not enough.
Not as many as, as you mightthink from like my personality
type.
I know, like you totally seemlike
kari (3) (09:39):
someone that would be obsessed with MythBusters.
Like I'm, I was never a
casey (09:42):
MythBuster.
kari (3) (09:43):
I'm literally just finding this out about you.
I, it was never a big thing
casey (09:46):
for me.
I just, I kind of got bored withthe episodes.
Yeah.
And they dragged, they, they
kari (3) (09:51):
did drag
casey (09:51):
on God and then they tried to dramatize some of it to
be like, are we gonna finish theproject?
Oh.
And then, and they always do.
Like it got a little repetitive,a little annoying.
kari (3) (09:59):
I got him on a tangent guys.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to do that.
Back
casey (10:04):
to the history of kink.
So that first myth that we wantto tackle is whenever somebody
says kinks are always a resultof some form of trauma, which is
half truth.
I'm going to call it a halftruth.
I don't want to say it's fullyfalse because you can develop
kinks from trauma.
Um, however, not all kinks aretrauma based.
Yeah.
Um, kinks come from everywhere.
(10:25):
You can see something in a moviethat becomes a kink and it
becomes a kink because we havethese, the circuitry in the
brain, um, our arousal circuits,um, our play circuits, our
seeking circuits, our, our coreaffects that we deal with those
like evolutionary behaviors thatwe've developed that whenever
they are activated.
(10:46):
It opens you up to really takingsome of this stuff in that you
see or that you experience orthat you become a part of and
develop a, an arousal responseto it.
So you don't have to haveexperienced a trauma to develop
something into a king.
So you
kari (2) (11:01):
could have just seen something as a kid and you,
you're, you know,
casey (11:05):
you're, you're arousal seeking circuits might have been
activated at that time.
You go through that and then youinternalize that and then it
comes out later.
At any point as a potentialkink.
So it's not something that'slike, Oh, this is bad or
something bad happened to me.
You just had those, thatcircuitry active in the brain at
the time that you went throughthis, and that could be
(11:26):
something you saw on television.
That could be a game that youplayed with friends.
So many things can turn intokinks.
So that's a big one that we wantto tackle right off the bat is
that no, not all kinks aretrauma based.
Yeah.
Right.
kari (2) (11:38):
And I think that's important to make because that
is one of the most Likemisunderstood concepts when it
comes to kink.
Is that like, Oh, what happenedto you to make you like that?
Maybe nothing happened to me.
Maybe I'm just, yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Like nothing.
I just like it.
kari (11:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
kari (2) (11:56):
But I do want to kind of dive into like more of the
history of it.
You had talked about what didyou say?
Like in an art area in theworld, it's not as like received
well.
casey (12:09):
Like in Western.
kari (2) (12:10):
Yes.
casey (12:11):
I mean, kink has been around since the dawn of time.
Yes.
Have we always called it kink?
No.
Has there been people that enjoyto explore acts or things
outside of what would beconsidered traditional sexual
practices?
Yes.
And I think that's the corething to really hone in on there
is that you could go to a partof the world where a certain act
(12:35):
is considered normal.
And it's not going to be calleda kink, but you go somewhere
else, especially a place likeAmerica, where we were founded
on like
kari (2) (12:43):
shame.
We were founded on shame.
Yes.
casey (12:46):
Anything outside of like traditional, what's considered
what's considered traditionalsexual practices in America is,
was, was villainized, wasdemonized.
It's called a natural.
And that way we call it kink.
So it's, it's fucking America.
So it's like anything that'snot, you know, man and a woman
missionary position, sex for thepurpose of reproduction is now
(13:08):
all of a sudden kinky.
So it's really easy in Americato call something a kink because
it would, how much is just notconsidered normal sex.
Put some heavy quotes aroundnormal.
Sex.
So in terms of the history ofit, like kinks been around
forever, there's always beensome level of kink, but what we
(13:29):
would consider kink here nowwould not necessarily be
considered kink in previoustimes.
A lot of those acts werenormalized.
Yeah.
Quick history lesson.
kari (13:39):
Yeah.
Thank you.
casey (13:39):
That's all we're going to go to for now.
Yeah.
What are, do you have any other,any other things like rumors,
myths, or stuff like that thatyou've heard about kink?
You're like, is that true?
kari (2) (13:50):
I mean, I mean, I would probably not say that, no,
but I think that there's Wow,great conversation,
casey (14:00):
moving on.
kari (2) (14:01):
Well, no, cause I guess in my head I was thinking
like, I think that peoplemisunderstand kink versus like a
fetish.
casey (14:06):
Okay, um, we can, we can do that.
And I mean, The differencebetween a fetish?
Yeah.
So understand that kink is, is a sexual interest that is
just considered outside thenorm.
That's, that's a kink rightthere.
Fetish is typically somethingthat is you, you need to, it's a
need to be experienced in orderto achieve arousal.
That's like the next level.
Yeah.
So not, not all.
(14:28):
What, how would you, how wouldyou word that all fetishes are
kinks, but not all kinks arefetish.
All kings are fetishes.
kari (3) (14:34):
Yeah.
casey (14:35):
So a fetish, I mean, most notably it, it's usually around
like an inanimate object.
Uh, but the person thatexperiences the fetish, they
have to experience that toachieve arousal.
That's a true fetish.
kari (2) (14:46):
So do people also say that like a fetish comes from
trauma as well?
Is that like a common thing thatpeople say?
Or do they not connect those twotogether?
casey (14:54):
Unfortunately, where we're at is, uh, most people
that we've experienced believethat kinks, fetishes, all that
are, are a.
Um, a source of trauma thatsomething bad must have happened
to you.
Oh, you call that person daddyand you have a daddy fetish.
It comes, it stems from yourdaddy issues.
Yeah.
Oh, you enjoy like knife play.
(15:15):
What happened to you as a child?
And
kari (2) (15:18):
you enjoy feet, you know, who kicked you in the face
as a kid and you liked it.
Like what happened
casey (15:23):
to Quentin Tarantino when he was The child or teenager
that it causes him to put feetin every film in every single
movie he's ever made And reallytie his own character into
interacting with those.
Oh,
kari (2) (15:36):
absolutely What was the vampire
casey (15:40):
one from dust till dusk till dawn
kari (2) (15:43):
selma hikes foot in his mouth with tequila draining
down Her leg into his mouth.
I want that done to me
casey (15:50):
and
kari (2) (15:50):
who wrote by her
casey (15:53):
Yeah, he gave himself a character and put his character
in that scenario.
So good job.
Uh, I'm glad you did that.
I'm sure it was consensual.
kari (16:01):
Yeah.
All right, moving on.
casey (16:04):
Absolutely.
So let's talk a little bitabout.
The people that have nowidentified that they have kinks
that they're interested in.
Maybe you haven't, maybe youhaven't.
As we said earlier, everybodyfantasizes.
We all do.
Fantasies just occur and it's upto you to, are you going to act
on them or just allow them tokind of fade away or store them
(16:26):
in, you know, your spank bank orsomething.
Yeah, I was going to say you'rejust going to
kari (2) (16:28):
masturbate to them, whatever.
casey (16:30):
But once you, once you kind of start organizing through
your fantasies and you see theserecurring themes and those
recurring themes start, Becomingsomething you want to engage in.
Um, what do you do with it?
Like, what are you supposed todo with that?
And if you're in a long termrelationship, which is most of
our listeners, then you want toknow.
Okay, how can I bring this up tomy partner?
(16:50):
That's a big one because noteverybody has this open line of
communication with their partnerfor these kind of things.
kari (2) (16:57):
When a lot of people are ashamed of their own kinks.
So even if they talk all daylong and they have great
communication through sex,there's Could be something in
the back of your head sayingwhat if they think this is
weird?
What if I think that it's weirdthat I want this, you know what
I mean?
And so even having the bestlevel of communication,
sometimes you're still afraid tojust from the shame that we
(17:19):
experience as individualsgrowing up in the society that
we're growing up in.
casey (17:24):
And that's where my biggest piece of advice is start
learning how to how to unmaskyour shame, start learning how
to shed it.
Because if you can startEngaging and empowering yourself
to kind of own your kinks andget rid of the shame surrounding
it.
Then you're going to haveultimately a better sex life.
And that better sex life isgoing to lead to higher
relationship.
Appreciation and success and allover better, better times.
(17:48):
In fact, there's, you know what?
Give me a second.
I was about to say
kari (2) (17:50):
there has to be some book or something that I know
that you can recommend for this.
casey (17:55):
So this is, this is probably one of my favorite
ones.
This is called unlearning shame.
It's by Devin price.
Who's a PhD.
This book is fucking amazing.
You want to talk about somebodyshowing you how to like.
Break down the walls of shame inyour own life and which is going
to ultimately create success inmultiple areas, not just your
sexual life.
However, we want to focus on thesexual side of things.
(18:16):
So check that one out wheneveryou get a chance.
There's plenty of otherresources that just happens to
be one that I'm super connectedto.
You get a lot of good stories inthere and you get a lot of good
analogies and a lot of greattactics.
In order to help you start tokind of unmask that shame and
get it out of your life.
So you can be more confident indiscussing these kinks.
So getting rid of shame isdefinitely a big one.
(18:36):
Um, trust is going to be anotherhuge one.
So take a moment to like, thinkabout yourself and your own long
term relationship and how muchtrust do you have in there?
What is your, um, I mean, shit,what's your attachment style
like in the relationship?
Do y'all have that secureattachment?
Um, what does your codependencelook like with each other?
What does your communicationlook like with each other?
Is this something that you feellike you're in a place that you
(18:59):
both feel you're in a place toopenly maybe get vulnerable and
talk about some things that aresuper close to the chest,
especially when it comes to sex.
We're all being told that sex isa, a closeted act and that's
something that you should kindof.
Keep quiet.
Don't talk about it.
Just hold it close to yourchest.
So start to learn that, like howto build that trust.
(19:22):
So what would you say to that?
kari (2) (19:23):
I mean, I would also say gain permission to disclose
this to them, set up a time todo it, say, Hey, um, you know,
it's a Monday morning.
We're running around and we'rebusy.
This isn't the time.
Um, but this evening I wouldlike to take some time to sit
down and talk to you about.
Things that I would like toexplore in the bedroom and you
(19:44):
can leave it as simple as that,but I always think it's
important to gain consent toeven carry on this conversation
because you don't necessarilyknow what if your partner is not
in that headspace.
There's plenty of times that wewant to talk about something or
Casey wants to bring somethingto me and I'm like, I'm not, I'm
not necessarily there right now.
So gaining that permission oralso like letting them know in
(20:07):
advance, I want to sit down andtalk to you about it.
It's a way to like gauge howthey feel about it.
Gauge how you feel about it andset aside a time to actually sit
down and discuss it
casey (20:19):
because the worst possible time to talk about or
try a new kink.
Is in the bedroom.
kari (2) (20:25):
Oh my God.
Do not do that.
This is something
casey (20:28):
that we've had to talk to so many couples about.
Cause we'll, we'll talk aboutconflict.
They're like, you know, we were,we were in bed the other night.
We were like, we started havingsex.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, he got up and was like, I
want to try to tie you up now.
And they had never done itbefore.
They had never discussed it.
And it becomes.
It can lead to some, some bigbreakdown, it can lead to
(20:49):
fights, it can lead to your
kari (2) (20:51):
partner, maybe being triggered for something or, or,
or just not understanding whythey have this like strong
emotion when something like thishappens, like you need to be
able to sit down with yourpartner beforehand and basically
like discuss the scene.
Out and how you want it tohappen.
And this scene doesn't have tobe dramatic at all.
(21:11):
It could be something as simpleas say, I came to Casey and was
like, I would really like to tryimpact play in the bedroom and
then you leave it at that.
Right.
And then if he's receptive toit, maybe y'all go out and you
pick out the, the, the toytogether.
The, what do you, what do youeven call it?
casey (21:31):
I know.
I'm like, I don't know.
Like it's not a toy.
kari (2) (21:35):
Right.
Seriously.
Um, no, I guess I just mean likeit could also become like
something exciting, somethingy'all can do together.
You go and pick it out.
Then y'all, you know, you set upa time to actually utilize it.
But before you utilize it, youcan sit down and discuss like.
What your hard nose are.
We call
casey (21:53):
this scene negotiation.
Yes.
kari (2) (21:54):
And it's very important and it can start out
just as small as you didn't evenhave to have anything.
You say you want impact play.
Your partner has a hand, right?
Um, we're going to, some lightspanking.
But it's good to dip your toe inthe water of the kink that
you're interested in chocolatesyrup on that.
Vanilla is like, don't, yes,absolutely.
(22:15):
But don't like go, if we'regoing to use the ice cream
analogy, don't go get browniesand sprinkles and like chocolate
chips and whipped cream and.
No, go and just slowly starttesting it out.
Having that, said, like line ofcommunication between the two.
casey (22:32):
So real quick, I love that we're talking about scene
negotiation, but I feel like Ineed to take a step back.
That's fine.
Back to kind of where we werefor a second, because we wanted
to first establish that trust.
And then as we said, the nextstep in that was to sit down and
have the discussion of, oftalking about kinks.
Now, when we talk to some peoplewho are saying, look, I have
great trust in my partner and wehave pretty open communication,
(22:56):
but I'm still so afraid of thejudgment.
And you know, being calledweird, how can I bring up kinks
that I think that they're goingto be on board with and kind of
avoid the ones that I don't.
Um, we have a great resource forthat.
Two great resources for that.
Um, first one's going to be theX confessions app,
kari (23:14):
which is
casey (23:15):
to an adult site, but it's an app you can download on
your phone that worksessentially like Tinder for
sexual acts with your partner.
You link it to your partner andthen it'll pop up individually
on your phones.
With a sexual act.
It might be watched porntogether.
It might be anal.
It might be shower sex.
It could be impact play oranything else.
Yeah.
If you're interested in it,you'll swipe one way.
(23:36):
If you're not interested, you'llswipe another way.
kari (2) (23:38):
Well, and another cool thing on it is it'll give you
definitions.
Yeah.
So there was one that I'd swipedand I'm like, I don't even know
what that is.
casey (23:44):
Sex positions.
kari (2) (23:45):
I'm like, what is this?
And it has this little likebutton on it that you can press
and then it'll give you thedescription below.
But what's so cool about theapp?
Is if Casey swipes right onsomething and I swipe right on
something, meaning that we'reboth interested in it, then
it'll pop up on our, like on ourapp and say, you know, these are
interests that both of you have.
These are the
casey (24:05):
ones that you matched with.
And so there's stuff on therebecause I feel I, the first time
we did that, I felt so like safeand comfortable swiping through
like some of these more.
Maybe you wouldn't talk aboutsome on the higher side, the
more extreme side.
And then lo and behold, we'rematching on stuff.
I'm like, Oh shit.
You're into that.
kari (2) (24:21):
Yeah.
casey (24:22):
Oh, okay.
That is
kari (2) (24:23):
such a good, I advise honestly, Casey, because that
really opened up some of ourlike conversations.
And if you are one to be alittle bit like timid, just to
sit down and have thatconversation.
Yes.
The X confessions app is amazingfor that.
casey (24:38):
Now there's another one that's out there.
That's a website you can usecalled mojo upgrade.
That one you can find and it'sfree online.
You can do, it's essentially thesame thing.
You each create your littleprofile and you're just clicking
through the different acts.
I believe it has a widerbreadth, um, for, uh, than X
confessions X confession islimited.
There's a, there's a couple ofhundred acts.
It's a great one to start with,but yeah, to start with, and
(25:00):
then you can try this like mojoupgrade.
Um, but again, it creates greatconversation and safe
conversation because you know,the act you're going to be
bringing up is one that you'reboth interested in.
And you don't have to worryabout being told that's weird.
I mean, no partner should telltheir other partner.
Please don't
kari (2) (25:15):
ever respond to your partner with that's weird when
they're coming to you withsomething, anything, because
that is very I mean, demeaningis not the word.
I don't know what, what to callthat.
casey (25:24):
In part, I would call it demeaning.
I would say that you're, you'renow shaming them.
And what you've done is you'vejust added a layer of mistrust.
To your relationship because nowyour partner's not gonna feel
safe coming to you with thesekind of things.
Yeah.
So we would definitely recommendthat, and that's gonna be part
whenever we talk about like howto take rejection and things
like that.
But what the only other resourceI wanna talk about Mm-Hmm.
(25:45):
in that if you're trying todiscover what your kinks are, or
maybe who you are as a kink staror your kink identity as we like
to call it.
Mm-Hmm.
BDSM test.org.
kari (2) (25:53):
That's when I was thinking in my head, I'm like,
yeah.
Oh, I was like, hold on.
What is it called?
Cause that, that
casey (25:58):
one that it reads out as almost like a personality test.
So you can, you know, agree,strongly agree, partially agree,
disagree that you, you see fromsome of these psychological
examinations and it'll spit outsomething at the end that says
what you're most likely to be.
So for me, I think it was like ahundred percent rigor.
Yeah.
And like rope buddy.
And this is just an example waslike 5%.
(26:20):
Yeah.
So there's like dominantsubmissive.
You're not really
kari (2) (26:23):
the submissive type.
Um,
casey (26:26):
exhibitionists are on there and the primal play is on
there, all sorts of stuff.
So you can look to see what yourpercentages line up as to say,
these are the acts that youmight might enjoy the most.
You enjoying your mic stand overthere?
kari (2) (26:39):
It won't stand still fine.
I'll just have to hold it.
You got this.
It's fine.
It's fine.
You do
casey (26:45):
what I do.
Just hold the mic in your hand.
I'm not
kari (2) (26:47):
going to hold it for that long.
I know.
I'm
casey (26:48):
getting tired of it.
I'm too fidgety.
18 episodes.
I know.
kari (2) (26:52):
I'm too fidgety.
casey (26:53):
I'm done with that at this point.
I want my mic stand back.
I know.
But yeah, bdsmtest.
org.
And that's going to be a goodone.
Um, but, but yeah.
So.
Boom.
Once, once you've done this, nowyou're going through your scene
negotiation where you're saying,Hey, what does this look like?
Um, what are your, what is yourhard lines in this?
So, you know, if you're going todo impact play, you have
(27:14):
somebody that says I want to doimpact play, but I don't want
you to hit my feet.
Yeah.
I want to do impact.
Yeah.
The feet hurt.
If you, if you
kari (2) (27:21):
like pain, then feet are great for you.
But if you're, if you like, thefeeling of impact play without
it being like crazy painful,then yeah.
But that's something that youfigure out and you.
You can figure that outtogether.
You can start with like lighttouches and we're just using
impact play as an example,because it's one of the easiest
ones to truly talk about.
(27:41):
Um, especially when it goesthrough these like negotiations,
but yeah, sitting down with yourpartner, a little bit of what I
was saying earlier, you can findthe different tools you want to
use.
I guarantee you don't even haveto go to a sex shop to find
stuff that you can use forimpact play.
We all have belts.
casey (27:57):
You can do simple, you can, there's easy stuff for
impact play.
A belt's a really, really goodone.
Um, you can use anything, anyhousehold items that can.
You know, they're safer wooden
kari (2) (28:07):
spoons are another great little popping device
casey (28:11):
as the cook in the household.
Yeah, I can tell you, yeah,
kari (28:14):
him, not me.
Yeah, no, definitely not me.
casey (28:18):
No, that's, that's good.
Um, and, and any of these actsthat you come across, whatever
you're negotiating them, just,It's important.
We can do a whole fuckingepisode on the conversation and
we will now.
We will do one where we maybeeven bring somebody on.
That's like a veteran expert inscene negotiation that can help
us out.
Cause there's so many emotional.
Physical components to gothrough emotional and physical
(28:39):
opponents to go or components togo through that it's, it can be
a complex thing, but if itbecomes simplified and you have
kind of a roadmap, then you canfind yourself negotiating scenes
with ease and creating somereally fun things.
Now, what to do if you bring up.
a act and your partner's like,no, I'm not interested.
(29:00):
I'll never be interested.
I don't want to do that.
kari (2) (29:03):
I think that a hard no should never be a response.
It because anything can benegotiated, right?
casey (29:10):
Oh, disagree on this one.
I, that's
kari (2) (29:13):
fine.
Yes.
As an example, and all I'msaying is like, there absolutely
are hard no's, yes, or you canfind a way to like negotiate out
something that could kind ofmaybe work for both, right,
like, perfect example, I guess,um, I don't, I don't like water
play, I don't want to be peedon, that's not a thing for me.
casey (29:37):
Don't insinuate.
That's a thing for me.
That one.
It's not.
It is,
kari (2) (29:41):
but we're not talking about us.
But if it is a no, there areways that maybe y'all could
negotiate in, in, in meethalfway.
Right.
You know,
casey (29:51):
you say you don't want water play.
I know.
And I bring it up all the time.
I bring it up every time.
kari (2) (29:55):
I know I bring it up every time.
Water
casey (29:57):
sports more than like any other act.
kari (2) (29:59):
Because it's, I feel like it's one that's really
common that people like knowabout, but it's also still like
insanely taboo.
Yeah.
Because again, I can't say no when there's plenty of
people that want to be peed on,but all I'm trying to someone or
pee on someone.
Right.
And all I'm saying is like,there's a way to negotiate it.
It could be like, In the shower,I will let you do this to me in
(30:23):
the shower.
If it's something that you arewanting.
And what I'm trying to say islike with partners, you can do
fake urine.
I mean, you can't, there's,there's ways to, um, do the act
without doing the act.
Yeah.
But there's ways to like.
Make it work.
If it's not even the exactthing, like you buy the fake P
(30:43):
got it.
Right.
And then like you use it as ifit, the act is happening and
seeing if that can kind of stillhelp trigger out and give you
that satisfying satisfactionthat you want from the kink.
So
casey (30:56):
it's not going to be a full act, but you can engage in
some level of fantasy, somelevel of compromise that allows
you to.
Get similar feelings.
It may not be the real thing.
It may not be 100 percent allin, but it's something that it
can allow you to feel that, thatsome level of fulfillment and
engaging in the act in adifferent way.
kari (2) (31:11):
No, no argue.
You already agreeing with me.
casey (31:13):
Well, that's because my argument was going to be to your
statement that there shouldnever be a hard, no,
kari (2) (31:18):
there shouldn't be, there's ways to negotiate around
it.
You know, there's, I mean, therecan be should, should be, is not
the proper.
And I do want to get a really
casey (31:28):
good example in here on this one, because if you take
somebody that has a history oftrauma and then you want to
engage in CNC or consensual nonconsent, that could be a very
hard note for that personbecause you're dealing with some
pretty deep shit.
Yeah.
So there are times whenever itshould be a hard no, and that
could be a decent example ofwhen that might happen.
kari (2) (31:49):
Yep.
And you would say hard no tothat, but we could try this.
Maybe we could try.
Exactly.
Like the whole thing is, is thatit isn't a negotiation.
And, and one of the
casey (32:01):
scene negotiations, one of
kari (2) (32:03):
my favorite times that we got to experience seeing
negotiation is when we went tothat sex Uh, party.
casey (32:10):
Yeah,
kari (2) (32:11):
that was one of
casey (32:12):
they covered seed negotiations,
kari (2) (32:13):
but that was like eye opening for me to go through.
And cause you would sit in frontof a partner and they would hear
casey (32:21):
no and how to hear
kari (2) (32:23):
yes.
And so, and it wasn't because Idon't think it was with you that
you had said that there was alady that wanted.
You to hold her and cuddle herand her like nuzzle up on you or
she
casey (32:37):
wanted me to do that and then kiss her neck and do all
this stuff.
And I was not in like that kindof place at that moment.
And so, and so you
kari (2) (32:46):
were able to hear what her request was, and then you
were able to come back with, um.
Instead of the kissing and allthat what if you lay on my lap
and I like stroke your hair orsomething, right?
I don't remember what you didexactly but there's ways to
Negotiate and when we sat downwith that or in that like in
that circle, it was so helpfulto hear people say no but Not
(33:11):
shutting them down, just givinga suggestion on top of it.
What if we did this instead?
And that was really helpful andthat was very eye opening
because there are times thatwe've been in, or intimate, and
there was something that youwanted to do, and I was like,
um, well, maybe not thatexactly, but let's, let's try
doing this.
And it's all about that, like,compromise.
(33:31):
And you can utilize any kink inthe world and find a way to
compromise that with yourpartner.
It doesn't have to be sointense.
Kinks don't have to be scary andthey don't have to be all or
nothing.
There's a lot of ways that youcan kind of like adapt that kink
into your lifestyle bymaintaining consent from both
(33:52):
parties and want from bothparties.
casey (33:55):
So say for instance that you are, you're somebody that
you have had the dream ofdominating somebody else and
they do not have the dream ofbeing submissive to you.
What you can do is.
Get someone
kari (2) (34:09):
with us that will want it to
casey (34:11):
bring in a third one.
Come on, let's do it.
However, some of the things thatyou can do is you could get
together and come up with a listof words and phrases that are
greenlit by your partner.
So you can kind of engage in alittle bit of that dominance, or
you can negotiate a scene inwhich you may be able to feel a
little bit of that dominancewithout it being so overly, I
kari (2) (34:37):
mean, again, it doesn't have to be all or
nothing.
There are many ways that you canincorporate it into it.
Um, we kind of go back and forthbetween being, um, dominant and
submissive.
Clearly I am way more of thesubmissive person in our
relationship.
However, we did start toimplement, um, I have like
(34:59):
glasses, right?
Like I don't need glasses, but Iwear a bunch of different
glasses.
And what we've kind of done nowis that I like have a
personality around the glassesthat I'm wearing.
Yes.
And it's a great way to likeincorporate a mindset into
without having to be super likeverbal.
casey (35:16):
We actually, we learned about that one because we're,
you know, we.
Both our career people.
Yeah.
Like we have this thing and wewere trying to find ways that we
could deal with, um, leavingwork at work and leaving
personal lives at home.
And one of the things that wehad come across was somebody
talking about creating differentpersonas.
So having like that work personaand then tying that to an actual
(35:37):
physical object.
So I used to go into work and Iwould have a, uh, I think it was
like a hair tie in my car.
And so whenever I was going tobe going into work, I would slap
the hair tie on to be like,okay, this is now the character
that I am and act out as thatcharacter throughout the day.
And the second I'm in the car,It comes back off.
I still do that now.
You do that now, but with shoes,I do.
What I do with shoes, I, I havea pair of work shoes at my
(35:59):
clinic where I wear flip flopsinto work.
The second I get in, I put on mywork shoes and I'm now like Dr.
Casey.
Yeah.
And then whenever I leave, Islide those shoes off my flip
flops back on and now I'm dad ordaddy.
Mm-Hmm.
Depending on who's dad or daddy,depending.
I know
kari (2) (36:13):
you know that our daughter the other day was like,
I think you call.
Dad, daddy more than I do.
And I'm like, probably
casey (36:21):
she calls me father.
kari (2) (36:22):
She does father.
casey (36:24):
That's father and daughter between the two.
kari (2) (36:27):
But so no, so like I have these glasses and I have
these like tight, thin, likeframed, you know, and so they're
like more of like my secretaryglasses and those I put on when
I am choosing to be moredominant.
And then I have a bigger pairthat are much more wide and
playful that I use when I'mgoing to be more submissive.
casey (36:44):
Those create great non verbal cues for your playtime.
kari (2) (36:47):
And he doesn't, I don't have to say a word.
I put those on and I walk intothe room and he automatically
knows, am I going to be moresubmissive or am I going to push
my dominance on him?
It doesn't, it's not alwaysreceived.
Because you're way fucking moredominant than I am.
And so, but it's fun to playinto that though.
And if you are someone that'ssuper dominant, I do encourage
(37:10):
you to have a time or a sessionwhere you are a bit more
submissive.
We had a session not too longago where I had those on and I
was like, okay, we're going todo this.
And it was the very first timein our relationship that you
have ever remotely beensubmissive.
But it was like, but it wasreally playful and it was a lot
of fun and it wasn't, Serious.
And that's really the point thatwe're trying to make with all
(37:31):
the, these like aspects intobeing connected with your
partner is don't take it tooserious.
It doesn't have to be kinks arefun.
They're a great way to exploreyourself and your partner and
you and yourself and yourpartner together.
Like you can bring your kinkinto his kink and y'all can
really work to, to create a lotof fun.
(37:51):
But yeah, it really does startwith communication.
casey (37:54):
Yeah.
I understand.
And we, we said this earlier inthe episode, but.
We still have people that arelike, well, why should I engage
in kink?
Why should I try to explorethis, this whole thing?
And at the very, very core ofit, it has to do with your
relationship satisfaction andyour sexual satisfaction.
Um, again, this is somethingthat.
Isn't touched on too much.
It's kind of overlooked, butthere are so many studies out
(38:17):
there that link your sexualsatisfaction to your overall
relationship satisfaction andpeople that engage in sex that,
um, adheres to their sexualidentity.
The off how often they want tohave sex, the type of sex that
they want to have those peoplethat engage in that more often
are going to be overall happierin the relationship, which then
(38:37):
can help us do things likeclosing the orgasm gap, like
decreasing divorce rates, takingcare of people on a level that
just creates overall happinesswithin your relationship.
kari (2) (38:47):
I mean, there's something so connective though.
about introducing kink into,into your relationship.
And I also want to say that kinkdoesn't mean that it has to end
in intercourse or coming.
You can experience a kinktogether with no actual need for
(39:08):
release,
casey (39:09):
which is always a great, great piece of advice that we
love to utilize is don't gointo, you don't have to go into
sessions with the expectation ofsex.
You don't have to go withintercourse or whatever you want
to call it.
You don't have to go in with theexpectation of orgasm.
You don't have to go in with anyexpectations other than
exploration and curiosity.
No.
And on top of that, an addednote is don't take it too
(39:31):
fucking seriously.
Like if you're going in andyou're doing this with like, it
needs to be in a certain way,and I want to be super
concentrated.
Please take a step back fromthat.
Laugh a little bit, enjoy eachother.
And if things aren't going theway that you were hoping they
would go, just laugh about it
kari (39:47):
and try something else.
It's fine.
If you go in and
casey (39:50):
you decide that like, Hey, this maybe isn't for me.
Consent revocation, entirelyacceptable.
Hey, I'm not enjoying this asmuch as I thought I would.
I'd really like it if weswitched to something else.
kari (2) (40:00):
I really like that you bring that up because there have
been kinks that I've had in thepast that I'm like.
Okay, no, I really want to trythis and then i'm in it and i'm
like I don't want to try this
casey (40:10):
I would like I don't want to do
kari (2) (40:11):
this and then but it also takes a lot for Say you're
doing an act to me and i'mresponding in a way that I don't
like it It's very important forthe person to not view that as a
rejection either because Ittakes a lot to be vulnerable and
to tell someone.
Hey, I want this and then oh,hey, no, I don't and then if
(40:32):
they take that negatively It canreally alter the entire process
when that's not what we'retrying to do.
casey (40:40):
Yeah, we have a tendency as, as humans to, when we are
rejected to on most levels,think that has everything to do
with us personally.
Whenever your partner tells, youknow, that doesn't necessarily
mean that it's about.
You or that they are rejectingyou.
They can easily just berejecting the act.
They can be rejectingthemselves.
So in those moments, wheneveryou start to feel those kind of
(41:03):
emotions rise a little bit, andyou're like, well, why are you
telling me?
No, what did I do wrong?
What is about, it's important toattempt on some level.
It's not always going to happen,but to attempt.
to understand that there's adeeper reason it's not all about
you.
kari (2) (41:18):
I don't know.
I mean, it kind of goes back tothe shabari stuff that we were
talking about earlier about howyou were like, no, when I first
started, it had to be so likemeticulous.
It had to be done this exactway.
And then when we started playingwith it more and it became more
fluid, that's when we actuallystarted to have a lot of fun
with it.
And so we're encouraging thesame thing when it does come to
(41:39):
your kink Dip your toe in alittle bit figure out how y'all
can incorporate it, but justdon't take it.
So serious.
Yeah, it's meant to be fun
casey (41:46):
Yeah, so this kinktober Kinktober
kari (2) (41:49):
kinktober
casey (41:50):
fucking right.
kari (2) (41:50):
I know
casey (41:52):
May make it a like come to an agreement with your
partner and bring it up and say,you know What what if we made a
list of kinks?
What if we went to thesewebsites?
what if we use these resourcesand just Without even engaging.
If you don't, if you're notthere yet, just write them out
as this is what I would ideallylike to try, take a look over
this, find some stuff that youmight like to, and maybe we just
(42:13):
talk about it.
You can, you can go out todinner and just fantasize with
each other.
I mean, what would we do if wewere going to try this out?
What if we were going to do,what if we got one of these big
alien.
He's
kari (2) (42:26):
pointing to a big alien dildo that we have in the
background
casey (42:30):
and try that out.
What would that look like?
What would it look like if webought a series of plugs?
I mean, how like
kari (2) (42:35):
sexy would it be if it's like, you know, you have
date night that evening and youtext your partner, download this
app, download X confessions,swipe through it.
And at dinner tonight, we'regoing to sit down and talk about
some of them.
casey (42:48):
We're not allowed to look at their matches.
Yeah.
Don't look at just, and we'regoing to sit down together.
Yeah.
And we're going to go throughour matches one by one.
We've done that.
Yeah.
And it was, we had a blast and
kari (2) (42:57):
we had a great time because it really brought up
conversation immediately.
Um, it, it's important to setaside time to not only play, but
to discuss the play that youwant.
And throwing kink into the mixis just such a fucking great way
to do it.
casey (43:14):
Again, it helps with your overall sexual satisfaction.
Yeah.
Increases desire for yourpartner.
It's no bad, only good.
Yeah.
kari (2) (43:22):
And like I said, we've been at this for 15 years.
It's, it's not eat, not thepodcast, but each other.
We've been at it with each otherfor 15 years.
And like it, we're stillexploring new kinks and still
trying to find ways to like,have fun sex or have sessions.
Like we do rope sessions.
Like we're talking about earlierwhere it's, it's not sexual.
It's not meant to be sexual, butit still is a kink that we have
(43:45):
that we're utilizing the time toexplore together.
casey (43:48):
So take that for what it is.
Yep.
Sure.
Do we have any recaps that weneed to do?
I feel like we covered so muchfucking information today.
The biggest thing is if you haveany questions comments,
concerns, anything like that,you can drop us a line.
You can do Casey at come withCasey.
com carry it.
Come with Casey.
com.
Those are individuals for us.
I think we also have ask at comewith Casey.
(44:08):
com.
So three different emailaddresses you can hit up and
we'll get to all of yourquestions.
You can also find us onInstagram.
Um, right now it's at CW Caseyunderscore official.
You can drop us a line theresaying that you have questions.
Of course, we'll keep everythinganonymous.
But we'd love to talk it overwith you to see how we can
explore and help each other out.
kari (2) (44:26):
Yeah.
Let's help you get kinky.
casey (44:28):
So for another episode of insert future title here, right?
Well, cause we're rebranding,um, I'm Dr.
Casey Sanders and I'm CarrieSanders and we'll see you next
time.
Welcome to kinktober.
kari (2) (00:01):
I love kinktober.
casey (00:03):
It's one of the best times of the year, isn't it?
We're starting off this firstepisode of October and we're
going to be talking today aboutall things kink.
We're going to be talking abouta ton of stuff around it, but
we'll get there.
Yeah.
We'll get there.
kari (2) (00:16):
I mean, my two favorite things in one month,
Halloween and kink.
casey (00:19):
Yeah.
Kinktober.
Kinktober.
kari (2) (00:19):
October is literally my favorite
casey (00:21):
day after day.
We get to explore.
We get to build some goodcommunication skills.
We get to talk about a lot ofthings important to us.
Whenever it comes to kink.
And help people.
kari (2) (00:30):
Well, and I mean, our biggest kink, as I feel like the
whole world knows at this point,would be shibari.
Spicy
casey (00:37):
macrame.
kari (2) (00:38):
Yeah, exactly.
That's what
casey (00:39):
we like to call it, or human air jail.
kari (2) (00:40):
Lot of, lot of phrases for it.
Um, but I have noticed, andthat's probably our biggest one
that we like consistently
casey (00:49):
engage in, engage
kari (2) (00:50):
in with one another.
It's
casey (00:51):
probably going to be shibari, but it's, Why do you
think that is?
I mean, I know it's because I'vegot, yeah, it's like,
kari (3) (00:57):
You, I've got spicy brains.
Yeah.
And you are why
casey (01:01):
I, I hyper focus on that shit.
I get really concentrated.
I love the intricacies of it.
I love the aesthetics ofcreating harnesses and I love
how it allows me to.
Almost get to know your body andyour mind better because there's
so much communication that'snecessary for that.
And I didn't always have that.
Whenever we first started, youremember that
(01:21):
it was,
it was not pretty.
Um, and I don't mean the rope.
I mean, yeah, I was trying to doit.
Communication was not.
Yeah.
Cause I always took it likewhenever we first started, I
took it so.
So it's like ultra serious thatif something wasn't going the
way I wanted it to in thebeginning, I got real
frustrated.
kari (2) (01:37):
I mean, I, but I understood it though.
Like you can't, you have tolearn something before you can
like.
Play with it.
Yeah.
You
know what I mean?
Like with anything, you have tolearn how to do it before you
can kind of start or even likenot play with it, but start to
become more creative with it.
You were so focused on gettingit done.
Right.
No, no, no.
(01:57):
This rope has to be right here.
casey (02:00):
Exactly.
So that was one of the big onesthat we, I eventually learned
was like, it's not the way to dothis because I was going, all
right, I learned, you know, thisharness, and so these ropes need
to be in this exact position.
Placement and that's not thecase at all by moving them.
You allow the person to thebottom, the buddy, do you have,
be more comfortable, notexperience, you know, damage or
anything like that.
(02:20):
And me, I was so mechanisticabout it that I forgot to add in
that human element.
kari (2) (02:24):
Yes, you did.
And, but, but I also didn't knowhow to receive it either.
Right?
Like you were learning to be arigor at the same time I was
learning to be a bottom.
Um, and, That is in part on whatwe talk about in our classes.
casey (02:38):
This is exactly where we're headed.
It is segue there.
I'm
kari (2) (02:42):
really good at this.
Thank you.
casey (02:44):
So because of all the the work that we've put in for this
over the last Quite a long timeat this point, it's allow us,
it's allowed us to start toshare with other people, um, how
to begin to do these things.
And so we formulated a couple ofdifferent classes, all centered
around just introduction toShabari, like talking about the
(03:04):
different types of rope thatthere are talking about the
different basic, you know,frictions and tensions that we
can work through and showingpeople how they can use it for
bedroom play and a safe.
And fun way.
kari (2) (03:16):
And what I really like about our class that we offer is
again, you're going to get theexperience from the bottom as
much as the information on theropes.
And I, and again, like I said,like we don't really, there are
classes on how to bottom all daylong.
Yes.
But I haven't necessarily seen aclass that offers both where,
(03:37):
and at least not like localizedto where we are.
And so offering the Again, thatthe like information on the
rope, on the tying, on thecommunication, um, that's what
really sets our classes apart.
I do believe.
And then also it's going to makeit very fun introduction.
So it's kind of for both partiesbecause when we do the classes,
it's a couple class
casey (03:59):
for now, I mean, we do couples and it's an inclusive
class.
So everyone is welcome.
We enjoy the diversity that weget to experience for there and
the people we get to meet andthe things we get to learn
about.
A lot of, a lot of the peoplethat are interested in Shabari.
Yeah.
So it's, it's this coolcommunity that we try to create
where it's not.
Super like academic in nature.
We're not trying to be that,like we just said, mechanistic
(04:22):
in our approach.
It's tries to be very informaland something that allows people
to feel comfortable and itallows people to quickly build
the trust with each other andwith us so you can You can have
that advance.
kari (2) (04:35):
Yeah.
And so we have two classescoming up.
When are they?
casey (04:38):
So the first one that we're going to be having is
we're partnering with our goodfriends at Shibari Studios, um,
here in North Fort Worth.
We're going to be doing that onthat one is October the 15th.
That starts at six 30 and we'regoing to go for a few hours just
until we're done.
Um, that one, if you've neverheard of or been to Shibari
Studios, you've got to checkthese guys out.
Um, you can check out Shibarisupply official on Instagram, or
(05:00):
you can check out Shibaristudios.
On Instagram.
The place that they've createdthere has like 20 plus hard
points.
Yeah.
It's
kari (2) (05:07):
basically this warehouse that you walk into
that.
They made it this beautiful, setup.
Like you said, they have rigs.
They have
casey (05:14):
lighting, sound.
Tooth.
Two stories would like anobservation deck for whenever
they host events.
I it's a big place.
Yeah.
kari (2) (05:22):
It's literally everything that you need and
that the, he sells ropes there.
Um, and so it's, it's such acool setup and I'm, it's just so
conveniently close to us.
casey (05:32):
And they, they offer memberships.
So the one thing that you needto know is that when it comes to
doing a lot of this, one of thebiggest topics.
The two biggest topics areconsent and safety.
So they offer memberships thatputs you through a background
check to make sure that, youknow, you don't have any, but
there's no criminals coming in.
There's no consent violatorscoming in and they have, they've
been in this community for solong that they have connections
(05:54):
to all of the dungeons aroundtown, all the places in DFW who
they can cross communicate withto make sure it's a fun and safe
environment for attendees.
kari (2) (06:03):
And in all honesty, like as a rope bottom, that is,
that's Something that like canjust be in the back of your mind
because typically when you, whenyou're Thai, you're in tighter
clothing, you're, and you'rebeing observed and it's, it
creates a really safe place toknow that we are being observed
around like minded, safeindividuals.
(06:24):
Exactly.
And then we got another locationthat we're, so
casey (06:26):
that was our first class.
Again, that one is going to beon October 15th at 6 30 PM.
Um, and the other one that we'regoing to be having, we're super
excited about this.
You've heard us talk in the pastabout wildflower intimates and
grace without wildflowerintimates.
Um, her shop is amazing.
Anything you could want out ofthe perfect bra fittings.
Yeah, it's in South Fort Worth
kari (2) (06:46):
off of Magnolia.
We went in there for a visitjust to kind of like introduce
ourselves.
Um, she sized me up in a second.
casey (06:55):
Eyeballed it really and it was damn near perfect.
kari (2) (06:57):
It was, yeah, it was literally the perfect size.
It was the most comfortable braI have ever worn.
I ended up finding out that Iwas like, Not in the size that I
should have been in.
Um, which might be why I'm not abra wearer, you know, because
they were so uncomfortable.
Um, but the bras that she placedon me, I just, I felt so like a,
(07:17):
like a swaddled baby on mybreast.
Like it was.
So
casey (07:22):
comfortable.
I have no idea what that feelslike, but I'm going to assume
it's really nice.
Maybe like
kari (2) (07:27):
the tightest boxers, you know, to something that just
really holds the balls up likeI, I was so comfortable in these
bras and, but anyway, she has abeautiful space and we're going
to be working with her.
Now understand that this one'sgoing to feel more like this one
is more about intimacy.
Yeah, this one's going to be alittle bit more intimate.
(07:48):
We're still going to go verymuch on education, but it's
going to be a lot more on playwith it.
So that's
casey (07:54):
the goal of the, of that class we're going to do for a
two hour course.
From seven to nine on November9th, that one is going to be
more around.
Let's teach you a couple ofbasic ties, get through some of
the work so we can show you howthis can be utilized to increase
the intimacy in yourrelationship.
It's very much going to becentered around like.
Movements and flow about how todo something that can, it can
(08:16):
really drive you in thatspiciness level in the bedroom.
So it's, it's a very kinky onethat we're going to be doing.
So I think we're excited aboutboth of them, but that kind of
leads us into our topic fortoday.
Yeah,
that we're going to be discussing and today is all
about because it's kinked overbecause it's kinked over because
everyone wants to know aboutgood kinks.
We
kari (2) (08:34):
do.
casey (08:34):
We decided that we're going to take a the today's
episode to really discuss allthings kink.
Yeah, I think we want to kind ofstart off with this is the
origin of kink.
Where does kink come from?
Yeah,
kari (2) (08:45):
start from the beginning.
casey (08:46):
So you have, I mean, everyone at some point in their
lives, I feel like Experience iskink on some level.
Um, you may not always engage init, but people fantasize
fantasizes it's healthy, it'snatural, and it leads into you
saying, you know what?
I have this interest that kindof is a recurring theme in my
fantasies that I'd like to try.
And unfortunately we've had alot of people, especially in
(09:11):
Western culture, villainizedkink.
To say that it's unhealthy, thatit's weird, to say that it's a
result of trauma.
So we want to take a minute toclarify, do a little bit of myth
busting, and show you what kinkis kind of all about.
kari (09:23):
Are you calling me Carrie from Mythbusters?
Was
casey (09:26):
there a Carrie on Mythbusters?
kari (09:27):
Yes! It was the main girl! Her
kari (3) (09:29):
name was Carrie! Do you know how
casey (09:30):
many episodes of Mythbusters I've seen?
kari (3) (09:32):
Not a lot, clearly!
casey (09:34):
Not, not enough.
Not as many as, as you mightthink from like my personality
type.
I know, like you totally seemlike
kari (3) (09:39):
someone that would be obsessed with MythBusters.
Like I'm, I was never a
casey (09:42):
MythBuster.
kari (3) (09:43):
I'm literally just finding this out about you.
I, it was never a big thing
casey (09:46):
for me.
I just, I kind of got bored withthe episodes.
Yeah.
And they dragged, they, they
kari (3) (09:51):
did drag
casey (09:51):
on God and then they tried to dramatize some of it to
be like, are we gonna finish theproject?
Oh.
And then, and they always do.
Like it got a little repetitive,a little annoying.
kari (3) (09:59):
I got him on a tangent guys.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to do that.
Back
casey (10:04):
to the history of kink.
So that first myth that we wantto tackle is whenever somebody
says kinks are always a resultof some form of trauma, which is
half truth.
I'm going to call it a halftruth.
I don't want to say it's fullyfalse because you can develop
kinks from trauma.
Um, however, not all kinks aretrauma based.
Yeah.
Um, kinks come from everywhere.
(10:25):
You can see something in a moviethat becomes a kink and it
becomes a kink because we havethese, the circuitry in the
brain, um, our arousal circuits,um, our play circuits, our
seeking circuits, our, our coreaffects that we deal with those
like evolutionary behaviors thatwe've developed that whenever
they are activated.
(10:46):
It opens you up to really takingsome of this stuff in that you
see or that you experience orthat you become a part of and
develop a, an arousal responseto it.
So you don't have to haveexperienced a trauma to develop
something into a king.
So you
kari (2) (11:01):
could have just seen something as a kid and you,
you're, you know,
casey (11:05):
you're, you're arousal seeking circuits might have been
activated at that time.
You go through that and then youinternalize that and then it
comes out later.
At any point as a potentialkink.
So it's not something that'slike, Oh, this is bad or
something bad happened to me.
You just had those, thatcircuitry active in the brain at
the time that you went throughthis, and that could be
(11:26):
something you saw on television.
That could be a game that youplayed with friends.
So many things can turn intokinks.
So that's a big one that we wantto tackle right off the bat is
that no, not all kinks aretrauma based.
Yeah.
Right.
kari (2) (11:38):
And I think that's important to make because that
is one of the most Likemisunderstood concepts when it
comes to kink.
Is that like, Oh, what happenedto you to make you like that?
Maybe nothing happened to me.
Maybe I'm just, yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Like nothing.
I just like it.
kari (11:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
kari (2) (11:56):
But I do want to kind of dive into like more of the
history of it.
You had talked about what didyou say?
Like in an art area in theworld, it's not as like received
well.
casey (12:09):
Like in Western.
kari (2) (12:10):
Yes.
casey (12:11):
I mean, kink has been around since the dawn of time.
Yes.
Have we always called it kink?
No.
Has there been people that enjoyto explore acts or things
outside of what would beconsidered traditional sexual
practices?
Yes.
And I think that's the corething to really hone in on there
is that you could go to a partof the world where a certain act
(12:35):
is considered normal.
And it's not going to be calleda kink, but you go somewhere
else, especially a place likeAmerica, where we were founded
on like
kari (2) (12:43):
shame.
We were founded on shame.
Yes.
casey (12:46):
Anything outside of like traditional, what's considered
what's considered traditionalsexual practices in America is,
was, was villainized, wasdemonized.
It's called a natural.
And that way we call it kink.
So it's, it's fucking America.
So it's like anything that'snot, you know, man and a woman
missionary position, sex for thepurpose of reproduction is now
(13:08):
all of a sudden kinky.
So it's really easy in Americato call something a kink because
it would, how much is just notconsidered normal sex.
Put some heavy quotes aroundnormal.
Sex.
So in terms of the history ofit, like kinks been around
forever, there's always beensome level of kink, but what we
(13:29):
would consider kink here nowwould not necessarily be
considered kink in previoustimes.
A lot of those acts werenormalized.
Yeah.
Quick history lesson.
kari (13:39):
Yeah.
Thank you.
casey (13:39):
That's all we're going to go to for now.
Yeah.
What are, do you have any other,any other things like rumors,
myths, or stuff like that thatyou've heard about kink?
You're like, is that true?
kari (2) (13:50):
I mean, I mean, I would probably not say that, no,
but I think that there's Wow,great conversation,
casey (14:00):
moving on.
kari (2) (14:01):
Well, no, cause I guess in my head I was thinking
like, I think that peoplemisunderstand kink versus like a
fetish.
casey (14:06):
Okay, um, we can, we can do that.
And I mean, The differencebetween a fetish?
Yeah.
So understand that kink is, is a sexual interest that is
just considered outside thenorm.
That's, that's a kink rightthere.
Fetish is typically somethingthat is you, you need to, it's a
need to be experienced in orderto achieve arousal.
That's like the next level.
Yeah.
So not, not all.
(14:28):
What, how would you, how wouldyou word that all fetishes are
kinks, but not all kinks arefetish.
All kings are fetishes.
kari (3) (14:34):
Yeah.
casey (14:35):
So a fetish, I mean, most notably it, it's usually around
like an inanimate object.
Uh, but the person thatexperiences the fetish, they
have to experience that toachieve arousal.
That's a true fetish.
kari (2) (14:46):
So do people also say that like a fetish comes from
trauma as well?
Is that like a common thing thatpeople say?
Or do they not connect those twotogether?
casey (14:54):
Unfortunately, where we're at is, uh, most people
that we've experienced believethat kinks, fetishes, all that
are, are a.
Um, a source of trauma thatsomething bad must have happened
to you.
Oh, you call that person daddyand you have a daddy fetish.
It comes, it stems from yourdaddy issues.
Yeah.
Oh, you enjoy like knife play.
(15:15):
What happened to you as a child?
And
kari (2) (15:18):
you enjoy feet, you know, who kicked you in the face
as a kid and you liked it.
Like what happened
casey (15:23):
to Quentin Tarantino when he was The child or teenager
that it causes him to put feetin every film in every single
movie he's ever made And reallytie his own character into
interacting with those.
Oh,
kari (2) (15:36):
absolutely What was the vampire
casey (15:40):
one from dust till dusk till dawn
kari (2) (15:43):
selma hikes foot in his mouth with tequila draining
down Her leg into his mouth.
I want that done to me
casey (15:50):
and
kari (2) (15:50):
who wrote by her
casey (15:53):
Yeah, he gave himself a character and put his character
in that scenario.
So good job.
Uh, I'm glad you did that.
I'm sure it was consensual.
kari (16:01):
Yeah.
All right, moving on.
casey (16:04):
Absolutely.
So let's talk a little bitabout.
The people that have nowidentified that they have kinks
that they're interested in.
Maybe you haven't, maybe youhaven't.
As we said earlier, everybodyfantasizes.
We all do.
Fantasies just occur and it's upto you to, are you going to act
on them or just allow them tokind of fade away or store them
(16:26):
in, you know, your spank bank orsomething.
Yeah, I was going to say you'rejust going to
kari (2) (16:28):
masturbate to them, whatever.
casey (16:30):
But once you, once you kind of start organizing through
your fantasies and you see theserecurring themes and those
recurring themes start, Becomingsomething you want to engage in.
Um, what do you do with it?
Like, what are you supposed todo with that?
And if you're in a long termrelationship, which is most of
our listeners, then you want toknow.
Okay, how can I bring this up tomy partner?
(16:50):
That's a big one because noteverybody has this open line of
communication with their partnerfor these kind of things.
kari (2) (16:57):
When a lot of people are ashamed of their own kinks.
So even if they talk all daylong and they have great
communication through sex,there's Could be something in
the back of your head sayingwhat if they think this is
weird?
What if I think that it's weirdthat I want this, you know what
I mean?
And so even having the bestlevel of communication,
sometimes you're still afraid tojust from the shame that we
(17:19):
experience as individualsgrowing up in the society that
we're growing up in.
casey (17:24):
And that's where my biggest piece of advice is start
learning how to how to unmaskyour shame, start learning how
to shed it.
Because if you can startEngaging and empowering yourself
to kind of own your kinks andget rid of the shame surrounding
it.
Then you're going to haveultimately a better sex life.
And that better sex life isgoing to lead to higher
relationship.
Appreciation and success and allover better, better times.
(17:48):
In fact, there's, you know what?
Give me a second.
I was about to say
kari (2) (17:50):
there has to be some book or something that I know
that you can recommend for this.
casey (17:55):
So this is, this is probably one of my favorite
ones.
This is called unlearning shame.
It's by Devin price.
Who's a PhD.
This book is fucking amazing.
You want to talk about somebodyshowing you how to like.
Break down the walls of shame inyour own life and which is going
to ultimately create success inmultiple areas, not just your
sexual life.
However, we want to focus on thesexual side of things.
(18:16):
So check that one out wheneveryou get a chance.
There's plenty of otherresources that just happens to
be one that I'm super connectedto.
You get a lot of good stories inthere and you get a lot of good
analogies and a lot of greattactics.
In order to help you start tokind of unmask that shame and
get it out of your life.
So you can be more confident indiscussing these kinks.
So getting rid of shame isdefinitely a big one.
(18:36):
Um, trust is going to be anotherhuge one.
So take a moment to like, thinkabout yourself and your own long
term relationship and how muchtrust do you have in there?
What is your, um, I mean, shit,what's your attachment style
like in the relationship?
Do y'all have that secureattachment?
Um, what does your codependencelook like with each other?
What does your communicationlook like with each other?
Is this something that you feellike you're in a place that you
(18:59):
both feel you're in a place toopenly maybe get vulnerable and
talk about some things that aresuper close to the chest,
especially when it comes to sex.
We're all being told that sex isa, a closeted act and that's
something that you should kindof.
Keep quiet.
Don't talk about it.
Just hold it close to yourchest.
So start to learn that, like howto build that trust.
(19:22):
So what would you say to that?
kari (2) (19:23):
I mean, I would also say gain permission to disclose
this to them, set up a time todo it, say, Hey, um, you know,
it's a Monday morning.
We're running around and we'rebusy.
This isn't the time.
Um, but this evening I wouldlike to take some time to sit
down and talk to you about.
Things that I would like toexplore in the bedroom and you
(19:44):
can leave it as simple as that,but I always think it's
important to gain consent toeven carry on this conversation
because you don't necessarilyknow what if your partner is not
in that headspace.
There's plenty of times that wewant to talk about something or
Casey wants to bring somethingto me and I'm like, I'm not, I'm
not necessarily there right now.
So gaining that permission oralso like letting them know in
(20:07):
advance, I want to sit down andtalk to you about it.
It's a way to like gauge howthey feel about it.
Gauge how you feel about it andset aside a time to actually sit
down and discuss it
casey (20:19):
because the worst possible time to talk about or
try a new kink.
Is in the bedroom.
kari (2) (20:25):
Oh my God.
Do not do that.
This is something
casey (20:28):
that we've had to talk to so many couples about.
Cause we'll, we'll talk aboutconflict.
They're like, you know, we were,we were in bed the other night.
We were like, we started havingsex.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, he got up and was like, I
want to try to tie you up now.
And they had never done itbefore.
They had never discussed it.
And it becomes.
It can lead to some, some bigbreakdown, it can lead to
(20:49):
fights, it can lead to your
kari (2) (20:51):
partner, maybe being triggered for something or, or,
or just not understanding whythey have this like strong
emotion when something like thishappens, like you need to be
able to sit down with yourpartner beforehand and basically
like discuss the scene.
Out and how you want it tohappen.
And this scene doesn't have tobe dramatic at all.
(21:11):
It could be something as simpleas say, I came to Casey and was
like, I would really like to tryimpact play in the bedroom and
then you leave it at that.
Right.
And then if he's receptive toit, maybe y'all go out and you
pick out the, the, the toytogether.
The, what do you, what do youeven call it?
casey (21:31):
I know.
I'm like, I don't know.
Like it's not a toy.
kari (2) (21:35):
Right.
Seriously.
Um, no, I guess I just mean likeit could also become like
something exciting, somethingy'all can do together.
You go and pick it out.
Then y'all, you know, you set upa time to actually utilize it.
But before you utilize it, youcan sit down and discuss like.
What your hard nose are.
We call
casey (21:53):
this scene negotiation.
Yes.
kari (2) (21:54):
And it's very important and it can start out
just as small as you didn't evenhave to have anything.
You say you want impact play.
Your partner has a hand, right?
Um, we're going to, some lightspanking.
But it's good to dip your toe inthe water of the kink that
you're interested in chocolatesyrup on that.
Vanilla is like, don't, yes,absolutely.
(22:15):
But don't like go, if we'regoing to use the ice cream
analogy, don't go get browniesand sprinkles and like chocolate
chips and whipped cream and.
No, go and just slowly starttesting it out.
Having that, said, like line ofcommunication between the two.
casey (22:32):
So real quick, I love that we're talking about scene
negotiation, but I feel like Ineed to take a step back.
That's fine.
Back to kind of where we werefor a second, because we wanted
to first establish that trust.
And then as we said, the nextstep in that was to sit down and
have the discussion of, oftalking about kinks.
Now, when we talk to some peoplewho are saying, look, I have
great trust in my partner and wehave pretty open communication,
(22:56):
but I'm still so afraid of thejudgment.
And you know, being calledweird, how can I bring up kinks
that I think that they're goingto be on board with and kind of
avoid the ones that I don't.
Um, we have a great resource forthat.
Two great resources for that.
Um, first one's going to be theX confessions app,
kari (23:14):
which is
casey (23:15):
to an adult site, but it's an app you can download on
your phone that worksessentially like Tinder for
sexual acts with your partner.
You link it to your partner andthen it'll pop up individually
on your phones.
With a sexual act.
It might be watched porntogether.
It might be anal.
It might be shower sex.
It could be impact play oranything else.
Yeah.
If you're interested in it,you'll swipe one way.
(23:36):
If you're not interested, you'llswipe another way.
kari (2) (23:38):
Well, and another cool thing on it is it'll give you
definitions.
Yeah.
So there was one that I'd swipedand I'm like, I don't even know
what that is.
casey (23:44):
Sex positions.
kari (2) (23:45):
I'm like, what is this?
And it has this little likebutton on it that you can press
and then it'll give you thedescription below.
But what's so cool about theapp?
Is if Casey swipes right onsomething and I swipe right on
something, meaning that we'reboth interested in it, then
it'll pop up on our, like on ourapp and say, you know, these are
interests that both of you have.
These are the
casey (24:05):
ones that you matched with.
And so there's stuff on therebecause I feel I, the first time
we did that, I felt so like safeand comfortable swiping through
like some of these more.
Maybe you wouldn't talk aboutsome on the higher side, the
more extreme side.
And then lo and behold, we'rematching on stuff.
I'm like, Oh shit.
You're into that.
kari (2) (24:21):
Yeah.
casey (24:22):
Oh, okay.
That is
kari (2) (24:23):
such a good, I advise honestly, Casey, because that
really opened up some of ourlike conversations.
And if you are one to be alittle bit like timid, just to
sit down and have thatconversation.
Yes.
The X confessions app is amazingfor that.
casey (24:38):
Now there's another one that's out there.
That's a website you can usecalled mojo upgrade.
That one you can find and it'sfree online.
You can do, it's essentially thesame thing.
You each create your littleprofile and you're just clicking
through the different acts.
I believe it has a widerbreadth, um, for, uh, than X
confessions X confession islimited.
There's a, there's a couple ofhundred acts.
It's a great one to start with,but yeah, to start with, and
(25:00):
then you can try this like mojoupgrade.
Um, but again, it creates greatconversation and safe
conversation because you know,the act you're going to be
bringing up is one that you'reboth interested in.
And you don't have to worryabout being told that's weird.
I mean, no partner should telltheir other partner.
Please don't
kari (2) (25:15):
ever respond to your partner with that's weird when
they're coming to you withsomething, anything, because
that is very I mean, demeaningis not the word.
I don't know what, what to callthat.
casey (25:24):
In part, I would call it demeaning.
I would say that you're, you'renow shaming them.
And what you've done is you'vejust added a layer of mistrust.
To your relationship because nowyour partner's not gonna feel
safe coming to you with thesekind of things.
Yeah.
So we would definitely recommendthat, and that's gonna be part
whenever we talk about like howto take rejection and things
like that.
But what the only other resourceI wanna talk about Mm-Hmm.
(25:45):
in that if you're trying todiscover what your kinks are, or
maybe who you are as a kink staror your kink identity as we like
to call it.
Mm-Hmm.
BDSM test.org.
kari (2) (25:53):
That's when I was thinking in my head, I'm like,
yeah.
Oh, I was like, hold on.
What is it called?
Cause that, that
casey (25:58):
one that it reads out as almost like a personality test.
So you can, you know, agree,strongly agree, partially agree,
disagree that you, you see fromsome of these psychological
examinations and it'll spit outsomething at the end that says
what you're most likely to be.
So for me, I think it was like ahundred percent rigor.
Yeah.
And like rope buddy.
And this is just an example waslike 5%.
(26:20):
Yeah.
So there's like dominantsubmissive.
You're not really
kari (2) (26:23):
the submissive type.
Um,
casey (26:26):
exhibitionists are on there and the primal play is on
there, all sorts of stuff.
So you can look to see what yourpercentages line up as to say,
these are the acts that youmight might enjoy the most.
You enjoying your mic stand overthere?
kari (2) (26:39):
It won't stand still fine.
I'll just have to hold it.
You got this.
It's fine.
It's fine.
You do
casey (26:45):
what I do.
Just hold the mic in your hand.
I'm not
kari (2) (26:47):
going to hold it for that long.
I know.
I'm
casey (26:48):
getting tired of it.
I'm too fidgety.
18 episodes.
I know.
kari (2) (26:52):
I'm too fidgety.
casey (26:53):
I'm done with that at this point.
I want my mic stand back.
I know.
But yeah, bdsmtest.
org.
And that's going to be a goodone.
Um, but, but yeah.
So.
Boom.
Once, once you've done this, nowyou're going through your scene
negotiation where you're saying,Hey, what does this look like?
Um, what are your, what is yourhard lines in this?
So, you know, if you're going todo impact play, you have
(27:14):
somebody that says I want to doimpact play, but I don't want
you to hit my feet.
Yeah.
I want to do impact.
Yeah.
The feet hurt.
If you, if you
kari (2) (27:21):
like pain, then feet are great for you.
But if you're, if you like, thefeeling of impact play without
it being like crazy painful,then yeah.
But that's something that youfigure out and you.
You can figure that outtogether.
You can start with like lighttouches and we're just using
impact play as an example,because it's one of the easiest
ones to truly talk about.
(27:41):
Um, especially when it goesthrough these like negotiations,
but yeah, sitting down with yourpartner, a little bit of what I
was saying earlier, you can findthe different tools you want to
use.
I guarantee you don't even haveto go to a sex shop to find
stuff that you can use forimpact play.
We all have belts.
casey (27:57):
You can do simple, you can, there's easy stuff for
impact play.
A belt's a really, really goodone.
Um, you can use anything, anyhousehold items that can.
You know, they're safer wooden
kari (2) (28:07):
spoons are another great little popping device
casey (28:11):
as the cook in the household.
Yeah, I can tell you, yeah,
kari (28:14):
him, not me.
Yeah, no, definitely not me.
casey (28:18):
No, that's, that's good.
Um, and, and any of these actsthat you come across, whatever
you're negotiating them, just,It's important.
We can do a whole fuckingepisode on the conversation and
we will now.
We will do one where we maybeeven bring somebody on.
That's like a veteran expert inscene negotiation that can help
us out.
Cause there's so many emotional.
Physical components to gothrough emotional and physical
(28:39):
opponents to go or components togo through that it's, it can be
a complex thing, but if itbecomes simplified and you have
kind of a roadmap, then you canfind yourself negotiating scenes
with ease and creating somereally fun things.
Now, what to do if you bring up.
a act and your partner's like,no, I'm not interested.
(29:00):
I'll never be interested.
I don't want to do that.
kari (2) (29:03):
I think that a hard no should never be a response.
It because anything can benegotiated, right?
casey (29:10):
Oh, disagree on this one.
I, that's
kari (2) (29:13):
fine.
Yes.
As an example, and all I'msaying is like, there absolutely
are hard no's, yes, or you canfind a way to like negotiate out
something that could kind ofmaybe work for both, right,
like, perfect example, I guess,um, I don't, I don't like water
play, I don't want to be peedon, that's not a thing for me.
casey (29:37):
Don't insinuate.
That's a thing for me.
That one.
It's not.
It is,
kari (2) (29:41):
but we're not talking about us.
But if it is a no, there areways that maybe y'all could
negotiate in, in, in meethalfway.
Right.
You know,
casey (29:51):
you say you don't want water play.
I know.
And I bring it up all the time.
I bring it up every time.
kari (2) (29:55):
I know I bring it up every time.
Water
casey (29:57):
sports more than like any other act.
kari (2) (29:59):
Because it's, I feel like it's one that's really
common that people like knowabout, but it's also still like
insanely taboo.
Yeah.
Because again, I can't say no when there's plenty of
people that want to be peed on,but all I'm trying to someone or
pee on someone.
Right.
And all I'm saying is like,there's a way to negotiate it.
It could be like, In the shower,I will let you do this to me in
(30:23):
the shower.
If it's something that you arewanting.
And what I'm trying to say islike with partners, you can do
fake urine.
I mean, you can't, there's,there's ways to, um, do the act
without doing the act.
Yeah.
But there's ways to like.
Make it work.
If it's not even the exactthing, like you buy the fake P
(30:43):
got it.
Right.
And then like you use it as ifit, the act is happening and
seeing if that can kind of stillhelp trigger out and give you
that satisfying satisfactionthat you want from the kink.
So
casey (30:56):
it's not going to be a full act, but you can engage in
some level of fantasy, somelevel of compromise that allows
you to.
Get similar feelings.
It may not be the real thing.
It may not be 100 percent allin, but it's something that it
can allow you to feel that, thatsome level of fulfillment and
engaging in the act in adifferent way.
kari (2) (31:11):
No, no argue.
You already agreeing with me.
casey (31:13):
Well, that's because my argument was going to be to your
statement that there shouldnever be a hard, no,
kari (2) (31:18):
there shouldn't be, there's ways to negotiate around
it.
You know, there's, I mean, therecan be should, should be, is not
the proper.
And I do want to get a really
casey (31:28):
good example in here on this one, because if you take
somebody that has a history oftrauma and then you want to
engage in CNC or consensual nonconsent, that could be a very
hard note for that personbecause you're dealing with some
pretty deep shit.
Yeah.
So there are times whenever itshould be a hard no, and that
could be a decent example ofwhen that might happen.
kari (2) (31:49):
Yep.
And you would say hard no tothat, but we could try this.
Maybe we could try.
Exactly.
Like the whole thing is, is thatit isn't a negotiation.
And, and one of the
casey (32:01):
scene negotiations, one of
kari (2) (32:03):
my favorite times that we got to experience seeing
negotiation is when we went tothat sex Uh, party.
casey (32:10):
Yeah,
kari (2) (32:11):
that was one of
casey (32:12):
they covered seed negotiations,
kari (2) (32:13):
but that was like eye opening for me to go through.
And cause you would sit in frontof a partner and they would hear
casey (32:21):
no and how to hear
kari (2) (32:23):
yes.
And so, and it wasn't because Idon't think it was with you that
you had said that there was alady that wanted.
You to hold her and cuddle herand her like nuzzle up on you or
she
casey (32:37):
wanted me to do that and then kiss her neck and do all
this stuff.
And I was not in like that kindof place at that moment.
And so, and so you
kari (2) (32:46):
were able to hear what her request was, and then you
were able to come back with, um.
Instead of the kissing and allthat what if you lay on my lap
and I like stroke your hair orsomething, right?
I don't remember what you didexactly but there's ways to
Negotiate and when we sat downwith that or in that like in
that circle, it was so helpfulto hear people say no but Not
(33:11):
shutting them down, just givinga suggestion on top of it.
What if we did this instead?
And that was really helpful andthat was very eye opening
because there are times thatwe've been in, or intimate, and
there was something that youwanted to do, and I was like,
um, well, maybe not thatexactly, but let's, let's try
doing this.
And it's all about that, like,compromise.
(33:31):
And you can utilize any kink inthe world and find a way to
compromise that with yourpartner.
It doesn't have to be sointense.
Kinks don't have to be scary andthey don't have to be all or
nothing.
There's a lot of ways that youcan kind of like adapt that kink
into your lifestyle bymaintaining consent from both
(33:52):
parties and want from bothparties.
casey (33:55):
So say for instance that you are, you're somebody that
you have had the dream ofdominating somebody else and
they do not have the dream ofbeing submissive to you.
What you can do is.
Get someone
kari (2) (34:09):
with us that will want it to
casey (34:11):
bring in a third one.
Come on, let's do it.
However, some of the things thatyou can do is you could get
together and come up with a listof words and phrases that are
greenlit by your partner.
So you can kind of engage in alittle bit of that dominance, or
you can negotiate a scene inwhich you may be able to feel a
little bit of that dominancewithout it being so overly, I
kari (2) (34:37):
mean, again, it doesn't have to be all or
nothing.
There are many ways that you canincorporate it into it.
Um, we kind of go back and forthbetween being, um, dominant and
submissive.
Clearly I am way more of thesubmissive person in our
relationship.
However, we did start toimplement, um, I have like
(34:59):
glasses, right?
Like I don't need glasses, but Iwear a bunch of different
glasses.
And what we've kind of done nowis that I like have a
personality around the glassesthat I'm wearing.
Yes.
And it's a great way to likeincorporate a mindset into
without having to be super likeverbal.
casey (35:16):
We actually, we learned about that one because we're,
you know, we.
Both our career people.
Yeah.
Like we have this thing and wewere trying to find ways that we
could deal with, um, leavingwork at work and leaving
personal lives at home.
And one of the things that wehad come across was somebody
talking about creating differentpersonas.
So having like that work personaand then tying that to an actual
(35:37):
physical object.
So I used to go into work and Iwould have a, uh, I think it was
like a hair tie in my car.
And so whenever I was going tobe going into work, I would slap
the hair tie on to be like,okay, this is now the character
that I am and act out as thatcharacter throughout the day.
And the second I'm in the car,It comes back off.
I still do that now.
You do that now, but with shoes,I do.
What I do with shoes, I, I havea pair of work shoes at my
(35:59):
clinic where I wear flip flopsinto work.
The second I get in, I put on mywork shoes and I'm now like Dr.
Casey.
Yeah.
And then whenever I leave, Islide those shoes off my flip
flops back on and now I'm dad ordaddy.
Mm-Hmm.
Depending on who's dad or daddy,depending.
I know
kari (2) (36:13):
you know that our daughter the other day was like,
I think you call.
Dad, daddy more than I do.
And I'm like, probably
casey (36:21):
she calls me father.
kari (2) (36:22):
She does father.
casey (36:24):
That's father and daughter between the two.
kari (2) (36:27):
But so no, so like I have these glasses and I have
these like tight, thin, likeframed, you know, and so they're
like more of like my secretaryglasses and those I put on when
I am choosing to be moredominant.
And then I have a bigger pairthat are much more wide and
playful that I use when I'mgoing to be more submissive.
casey (36:44):
Those create great non verbal cues for your playtime.
kari (2) (36:47):
And he doesn't, I don't have to say a word.
I put those on and I walk intothe room and he automatically
knows, am I going to be moresubmissive or am I going to push
my dominance on him?
It doesn't, it's not alwaysreceived.
Because you're way fucking moredominant than I am.
And so, but it's fun to playinto that though.
And if you are someone that'ssuper dominant, I do encourage
(37:10):
you to have a time or a sessionwhere you are a bit more
submissive.
We had a session not too longago where I had those on and I
was like, okay, we're going todo this.
And it was the very first timein our relationship that you
have ever remotely beensubmissive.
But it was like, but it wasreally playful and it was a lot
of fun and it wasn't, Serious.
And that's really the point thatwe're trying to make with all
(37:31):
the, these like aspects intobeing connected with your
partner is don't take it tooserious.
It doesn't have to be kinks arefun.
They're a great way to exploreyourself and your partner and
you and yourself and yourpartner together.
Like you can bring your kinkinto his kink and y'all can
really work to, to create a lotof fun.
(37:51):
But yeah, it really does startwith communication.
casey (37:54):
Yeah.
I understand.
And we, we said this earlier inthe episode, but.
We still have people that arelike, well, why should I engage
in kink?
Why should I try to explorethis, this whole thing?
And at the very, very core ofit, it has to do with your
relationship satisfaction andyour sexual satisfaction.
Um, again, this is somethingthat.
Isn't touched on too much.
It's kind of overlooked, butthere are so many studies out
(38:17):
there that link your sexualsatisfaction to your overall
relationship satisfaction andpeople that engage in sex that,
um, adheres to their sexualidentity.
The off how often they want tohave sex, the type of sex that
they want to have those peoplethat engage in that more often
are going to be overall happierin the relationship, which then
(38:37):
can help us do things likeclosing the orgasm gap, like
decreasing divorce rates, takingcare of people on a level that
just creates overall happinesswithin your relationship.
kari (2) (38:47):
I mean, there's something so connective though.
about introducing kink into,into your relationship.
And I also want to say that kinkdoesn't mean that it has to end
in intercourse or coming.
You can experience a kinktogether with no actual need for
(39:08):
release,
casey (39:09):
which is always a great, great piece of advice that we
love to utilize is don't gointo, you don't have to go into
sessions with the expectation ofsex.
You don't have to go withintercourse or whatever you want
to call it.
You don't have to go in with theexpectation of orgasm.
You don't have to go in with anyexpectations other than
exploration and curiosity.
No.
And on top of that, an addednote is don't take it too
(39:31):
fucking seriously.
Like if you're going in andyou're doing this with like, it
needs to be in a certain way,and I want to be super
concentrated.
Please take a step back fromthat.
Laugh a little bit, enjoy eachother.
And if things aren't going theway that you were hoping they
would go, just laugh about it
kari (39:47):
and try something else.
It's fine.
If you go in and
casey (39:50):
you decide that like, Hey, this maybe isn't for me.
Consent revocation, entirelyacceptable.
Hey, I'm not enjoying this asmuch as I thought I would.
I'd really like it if weswitched to something else.
kari (2) (40:00):
I really like that you bring that up because there have
been kinks that I've had in thepast that I'm like.
Okay, no, I really want to trythis and then i'm in it and i'm
like I don't want to try this
casey (40:10):
I would like I don't want to do
kari (2) (40:11):
this and then but it also takes a lot for Say you're
doing an act to me and i'mresponding in a way that I don't
like it It's very important forthe person to not view that as a
rejection either because Ittakes a lot to be vulnerable and
to tell someone.
Hey, I want this and then oh,hey, no, I don't and then if
(40:32):
they take that negatively It canreally alter the entire process
when that's not what we'retrying to do.
casey (40:40):
Yeah, we have a tendency as, as humans to, when we are
rejected to on most levels,think that has everything to do
with us personally.
Whenever your partner tells, youknow, that doesn't necessarily
mean that it's about.
You or that they are rejectingyou.
They can easily just berejecting the act.
They can be rejectingthemselves.
So in those moments, wheneveryou start to feel those kind of
(41:03):
emotions rise a little bit, andyou're like, well, why are you
telling me?
No, what did I do wrong?
What is about, it's important toattempt on some level.
It's not always going to happen,but to attempt.
to understand that there's adeeper reason it's not all about
you.
kari (2) (41:18):
I don't know.
I mean, it kind of goes back tothe shabari stuff that we were
talking about earlier about howyou were like, no, when I first
started, it had to be so likemeticulous.
It had to be done this exactway.
And then when we started playingwith it more and it became more
fluid, that's when we actuallystarted to have a lot of fun
with it.
And so we're encouraging thesame thing when it does come to
(41:39):
your kink Dip your toe in alittle bit figure out how y'all
can incorporate it, but justdon't take it.
So serious.
Yeah, it's meant to be fun
casey (41:46):
Yeah, so this kinktober Kinktober
kari (2) (41:49):
kinktober
casey (41:50):
fucking right.
kari (2) (41:50):
I know
casey (41:52):
May make it a like come to an agreement with your
partner and bring it up and say,you know What what if we made a
list of kinks?
What if we went to thesewebsites?
what if we use these resourcesand just Without even engaging.
If you don't, if you're notthere yet, just write them out
as this is what I would ideallylike to try, take a look over
this, find some stuff that youmight like to, and maybe we just
(42:13):
talk about it.
You can, you can go out todinner and just fantasize with
each other.
I mean, what would we do if wewere going to try this out?
What if we were going to do,what if we got one of these big
alien.
He's
kari (2) (42:26):
pointing to a big alien dildo that we have in the
background
casey (42:30):
and try that out.
What would that look like?
What would it look like if webought a series of plugs?
I mean, how like
kari (2) (42:35):
sexy would it be if it's like, you know, you have
date night that evening and youtext your partner, download this
app, download X confessions,swipe through it.
And at dinner tonight, we'regoing to sit down and talk about
some of them.
casey (42:48):
We're not allowed to look at their matches.
Yeah.
Don't look at just, and we'regoing to sit down together.
Yeah.
And we're going to go throughour matches one by one.
We've done that.
Yeah.
And it was, we had a blast and
kari (2) (42:57):
we had a great time because it really brought up
conversation immediately.
Um, it, it's important to setaside time to not only play, but
to discuss the play that youwant.
And throwing kink into the mixis just such a fucking great way
to do it.
casey (43:14):
Again, it helps with your overall sexual satisfaction.
Yeah.
Increases desire for yourpartner.
It's no bad, only good.
Yeah.
kari (2) (43:22):
And like I said, we've been at this for 15 years.
It's, it's not eat, not thepodcast, but each other.
We've been at it with each otherfor 15 years.
And like it, we're stillexploring new kinks and still
trying to find ways to like,have fun sex or have sessions.
Like we do rope sessions.
Like we're talking about earlierwhere it's, it's not sexual.
It's not meant to be sexual, butit still is a kink that we have
(43:45):
that we're utilizing the time toexplore together.
casey (43:48):
So take that for what it is.
Yep.
Sure.
Do we have any recaps that weneed to do?
I feel like we covered so muchfucking information today.
The biggest thing is if you haveany questions comments,
concerns, anything like that,you can drop us a line.
You can do Casey at come withCasey.
com carry it.
Come with Casey.
com.
Those are individuals for us.
I think we also have ask at comewith Casey.
(44:08):
com.
So three different emailaddresses you can hit up and
we'll get to all of yourquestions.
You can also find us onInstagram.
Um, right now it's at CW Caseyunderscore official.
You can drop us a line theresaying that you have questions.
Of course, we'll keep everythinganonymous.
But we'd love to talk it overwith you to see how we can
explore and help each other out.
kari (2) (44:26):
Yeah.
Let's help you get kinky.
casey (44:28):
So for another episode of insert future title here, right?
Well, cause we're rebranding,um, I'm Dr.
Casey Sanders and I'm CarrieSanders and we'll see you next
time.
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