March 1, 2023 • 20 mins
What is equality? What is equity? What is gender equity? How can we embrace all of these?
In this episode of Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them, Annie Warshaw, co-founder of Mission Propelle and a gender justice professor at Roosevelt University, unpacks gender equity in her chat with host Carmelita Tiu.
In this episode, Annie:
- Answers the question, "What is gender equity?"
- Explains how we can be aware of gender equity and encourage it
- Tells us the 3 things that will make her feel like she’s raised her sons successfully
- Helps us reframe our beliefs about old-school etiquette so we can foster more equitable gender roles
- Talks about the importance of having a list of shared family values
To learn more about Annie Warshaw and her work:
- for equity consulting and coaching, visit missionpropelle.com, or follow @mission_propelle on Instagram
- for information about Youth Alliance Yoga, go to youthallianceyoga.com
Other references:
Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them
Follow here: Apple, Spotify, Google -- and leave a review! New episodes drop every Tuesday (and sometimes in between).
For more doses of information and inspiration:
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- visit knowberaisethem.com for all things about this podcast, and
- visit carmelitatiu.com to learn more about how you can connect 1:1 with Cat or join a community of other mindful, growth-oriented moms of girls.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:
Hello, everyone. (00:00):
undefined
So as you know, March iswomen's history month.
And March 8th isinternational women's day.
The theme for 2023 is embrace equity.
This immediately made me think ofan early episode I did with Annie
Warshaw, who is a professor of genderstudies at Roosevelt university.
And founder of mission propel.
(00:22):
I really listened to it andreally took away many things
that either I had forgotten.
Or was hearing in a differentway so i decided to rehear it and
you'll be hearing that shortly
Before we go there.
I wanted to call out adistinction that the international
women's day organization.
Thanks.
It's helpful to understand aswe think about embracing equity.
(00:42):
And that is the differencebetween equality and equity.
Equality means each individualor group of people is given the
same resources or opportunities.
Equity recognizes that each personhas different circumstances.
And gives the exact resourcesand opportunities needed.
To reach an equal outcome.
(01:04):
One thing that really helped me understandthe distinction that you may have seen.
Is this cartoon of individuals trying tolook over a fence there's basically two.
Two sides to the cartoon.
One is labeled equalityand one is labeled equity.
On the equality side, you see three.
Individuals of different Heights,all trying to see over a fence,
(01:25):
there's a tall, a middle-sizedone and a shorter one.
Person.
And they're all standingon the same sized box.
Unfortunately, that means that theshortest person still can't see
over the fence, the middle-sizedperson can just peek over and the
tall person can see over easily.
On the other side of thecartoon it's labeled equity.
And there the tall person has a boxthat allows them to see over the fence.
(01:49):
The middle-sized person has ataller box that also allows them
to see over the fence and theshorter person has the tallest box.
So all three individuals can see easilyover the fence with different sized boxes.
That really drove the point home.
So equality might mean givingpeople equal opportunities.
But equity looks like peoplehaving the same experience and,
(02:14):
and being able to engage in thoseopportunities in a meaningful way.
It really speaks to meeting people wherethey are and embracing differences.
I hope this will inspireyou to think about equity.
And how you might embraceequity going forward.
Welcome to know them.
Be them, raise them a show to helpmoms stay informed and inspired so
(02:38):
they can show up for themselves andtheir daughters the way they want to.
I'm your host Carmelitato join me each week.
As I cover a variety of topics, alldesigned to support, mindful and growth
oriented moms navigating these crucialyears, I'll talk to experts, moms who've
been there and read a curated selectionof articles with the author's permission
and drop in with my own thoughts on it.
(03:00):
This week's episode features AnnieWarshaw co-founder of mission propel
and a gender justice professor atRoosevelt university in our chat.
She shares the evolution of missionpropel breaks down what gender equity
is, explains how we can be aware of itand encourage it, and even how to reframe
our beliefs about old school etiquette.
So we can foster moreequitable gender roles.
(03:22):
And if you're hearing somescratching noises, it's not.
It's me, it was a new podcast ormisstep my ears just weren't attuned
to the noises when we were recording.
I think they're mostly in the firstcouple of minutes, but stick with me.
I promise there are some great takeaways.
Annie Warshaw (03:42):
uh, so thank you so much for having me on, I
really admire what you're tryingto do and just appreciate it.
So I have two companies priorto the pandemic mission.
Propels mission was to empower girls,to be advocates for themselves within
their classrooms and communities andfor boys to be allies towards girls for
(04:05):
the K through five groups of children.
And the way that we were doing thatwas we were working with in schools.
Using original storybooks thatmyself and my business partner
wrote, and we paired it with yoga.
We have served over 10,000students in the Chicago land area.
And then the pandemic hit and then we hadno business because the school is closed.
(04:26):
So we pivoted and quite frankly,we were kind of like, you know, we
had been running this business forseven years and we're like, we would
like a little bit of a change here.
That business, is now youthAlliance, yoga for short gay that
is still functioning in schools.
Mission propel is now thename for our new business.
And what we do is work to keep momsfrom dropping out of the workplace.
(04:47):
We have a two-pronged approach.
We work with corporations and nonprofitsand we coach their employees on how
to create a sustainable loving home.
So we work on relationships.
We work on, Actually creatinga sustainable schedule, having
an equitable partnership.
And then we do policy reviewof the workplace and we say,
(05:08):
look, we took care of this.
Person's home now.
Here's what you need to shift work-wiseand culture-wise, if you want this
person to actually stay and feelinvested in your company, love it.
So those.
Yeah.
So that has been going really well.
It's been really interesting and it'sreally exciting for Jill and I, my
business partner, because we're gettingto do something that we also love.
(05:28):
Like we loved working with kids,but now we're getting to teach
parents all of the skills that we'veacquired over the past, um, 15 years.
And it's been really fun.
It really
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (05:40):
kind of.
Some of my thinking about, showingup as a mom for our daughters, like,
it's, you, you both have to empoweryour daughter, but you also have to
model these behaviors and structuresthat you want the future to look like.
So you kind of address that throughboth of those angles, like the work
you're doing now, establishing.
(06:01):
Things should look like at home and thenalso at work, I think it's phenomenal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A good
Annie Warshaw (06:05):
chunk of what we do when we're talking about like
parenting and building emotionalintelligence and that sort of stuff.
It's really all around like what weas parents are doing and how we're
modeling that, you know, we often talkabout, especially when we're working
with dad, clients, or moms who like aregoing to go then talk to their partner.
If they're male identified, youknow, the skillset versus.
(06:26):
Value set in how we teachskills, verse values.
Um, so this idea of like, you need tolisten to me because I said so like
is not teaching any skill it's andit's not teaching any value either.
Right?
Like the idea is, well, I'm teachingyou respect, you don't teach respect.
You show respect, you model respect.
You talk about respect, but byhaving your kid brush their teeth,
(06:48):
because you said they need to brushtheir teeth is not teaching them.
You're in that circumstance, whatyour objective is, is to teach them a
skill, which is to brush their teeth.
So the mechanism of which youget them to do that can vary.
And, you know, we talkedabout those strategies.
Walking away being like,you have to do this.
Cause I said, so like, isn't going to getyou the outcome that you're intending.
(07:08):
And so when we think about likemodeling in that particular
circumstance, it's really aboutshowing respect and how do you listen?
Why don't they want to brush their teeth?
Like how can you provide themthe structure and routine
and consistency, versus.
I'm doing this cause, oryou're going to do this cause
I told you so, which teaches?
No.
Right.
(07:29):
So
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (07:29):
it's something that I, I know I grew up
with, um, you know, love my parents.
We get along great now, but there aredefinitely were definitely times growing
up where I'm like, why am I doing.
So I love that.
You're kind of getting at that, like,it's not enough to just say yeah.
Annie Warshaw (07:44):
I mean, because I had the same feeling and like, I mean, most
people say that stuff because they'rereverting to like what their parents
taught them, but teaching our kids, forexample, how to advocate for themselves.
If they do ask a question and you justshut them down, like, well, I told him,
so I told you so like, The opposite ofwhat you're trying to foster within them.
(08:04):
Right?
You want them to question that andif they are questioning things and
you're shooting them, then down,then they're going to say, well,
I should stop questioning things.
Or my voice is not valid as aspace, so I'm not going to use it.
Um, and so like, if we want themdoing that as a school, we need to
be also like offering that at home
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (08:22):
one hot.
I love what you're saying.
Run a hundred percent agree.
Annie Warshaw (08:28):
So kind of.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (08:30):
Jumping up to like a 35,000 foot view.
Um, can you tell our listenershow you define gender equity
and why it's important?
Annie Warshaw (08:38):
Yeah.
Um, I guess I should say so when I'm notdoing those two companies, I teach gender
justice, which is like the new women ingender studies at Roosevelt university.
Um, so like, everything I dois through this lens of gender.
So I have, , Two sons and a daughterand it goes, boy, girl, boy.
And I will tell you like, thisconversation is very much obviously
centered around girls, but onceI had a son, I was like, oh
(09:01):
my God, my world is in girls.
I, what am I going to do with this person?
And I became super passionate andI've done so much reading about like
toxic masculinity and, I feel likeif my, there are so many supports in
this world for girls, and that is notto say that we have gotten anywhere
near where we need to for women.
(09:22):
But we, as a culture, I thinkat least understand that we need
to provide programming for girlsand you know, that kind of stuff.
And we know, you know, youcould go buy a girl power shirt.
We have not done nearly asmuch for boys in terms of.
Teaching them how to be emotionallyliterate so that they can be real
allies and show up for girls not tobe pessimistic, but like, if we're not
(09:46):
doing that, we're never going to reachequity in the way that we want to.
Uh, you know, so my.
There's like three things that if mysons do, I will feel like an accomplished
parent first being voting, like that'shands down, they have to do that.
And then the other one is like, Inever want them to be a burden to
whoever their partner is in terms ofcleaning like this whole, like women
(10:08):
meant to load, you know, all that, likethat's skills that have been taught.
I want them to be in a partnership and beable to look in a kitchen, look around.
Oh, look, that thing was left out.
I'm going to go put itaway without being told.
That is how I will say I love it.
You know, that's not fair totheir, if they have a female
(10:28):
partner not fair to them.
And then that that's like a snowballeffect of like all these other
things that will be a burden to her,which will keep her from progressing
perhaps in her own life, in theway that she wants professionally.
Yeah.
And then the other piece is, you know,obviously they have to be a good,
outstanding human who's like, can have,I want them to be able to have like
real strong relationships with other menwhere they can talk about their feelings.
(10:51):
So for the boys, that's like my goal.
Um, those are wonderful goals.
Yeah.
I mean, and we all benefit from that.
Um, but for the, the question about genderequity, I mean, Within to that, right?
Like it's not just about womenadvancing it's about men being
able to be fully realized humans,which ultimately benefits women.
(11:14):
I mean, obviously there's huge linksbetween like toxic masculinity and
violence against women or the male gazeand how women view their own bodies.
But for me, ultimately, you know,gender equity is about getting
rid of patriarchy and maybe.
Not just opportunity, but everyone,no matter their gender identity is
treated with fairness and kindness,and doesn't matter who they are and
(11:38):
are afforded the same opportunitiesand can live freely in the same way.
So I can kind of
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (11:45):
curious, like as parents and looking at schools
or programs or environments, arethere things that we should look for?
That are characteristics of aplace that values gender equity
Annie Warshaw (11:58):
From a high level sort of, you know, district-wide, I think a
lot of schools or districts are movingtowards like an equity framework.
But oftentimes I think that that'sstill steeped in either racial
diversity or ethnic diversity.
And I don't see as much cognitiveawareness around gender.
So something as simple as like, whatkind of language are they using?
(12:21):
Is it like gender inclusive?
Um, do they have a genderinclusive bathroom?
And this to me is in the elementaryschool that should exist.
And if they don't, whatis their plan for that?
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (12:31):
I just want to interject that.
I would love that.
I think, I mean, I feel like everyone'slearning as we go along, but I, I
witnessed so many, elementary schoolstudents that are clearly on a journey
and having a gender neutral bathroom,which would just make it easier.
And I, and I think morerespectful to them.
Yeah.
Annie Warshaw (12:50):
Cause I do feel like people, I starting at least
in middle school, but I have notreally seen it in elementary schools.
I agree.
I mean, through the old mission, probably.
Yeah.
I mean, we've had, we had somany non-binary students, uh, you
know, starting in kindergarten.
Um, In terms of what a classroom, Imean, the books that are selected.
(13:14):
Oh yeah.
Um, you know, and, and ifyour teacher might not be.
They might be very well-intentioned itjust like not, no, like, I think as a
parent, like being like, oh, I heard aboutthis really great book that has a gender
fluid character or something like that.
because you know, I can think aboutlike my son's preschool teachers
and they're lovely people, but Iknow they're not like, let me go
(13:35):
find them was LGBTQ friendly books,but I know about all those books.
So I'm more than happy to be like, thisis a really funny book or whatever.
so I think the converse andthen also, you know, the.
History is being framed, how they'retalking about different events.
Like I know there's a lot of debategoing on around critical race theory.
I'm a trained historian.
(13:56):
And for me, I care, like Ialways, study like social history.
So like, what were everyday women doingduring this time period or whatever it is.
So, you know, a history teacher.
Does not have to integrateor implement, sorry.
Rather like a specific curriculum.
They can talk about like ordinary peopleand what they were doing and give more
(14:17):
perspective on, That there were otherpeople in history besides white men, um,
without it being controversial, honestly.
, so, you know, when you're talkingabout like, what were women's roles
during the American revolution orwhatever, it's not a controversial
thing, but, um, so yeah, so there aremany things teachers could be doing.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (14:36):
Absolutely.
So I'm curious what, aswe're thinking about.
the ways our environments cansupport or hinder our efforts.
How do you feel about like my I'm a bigmanners person, but related to that,
my parents were always like, might tomy brother, you open doors for women.
, to me, uh, when you're on a date,you should expect the guy to pay.
(15:00):
Um, so how do we reconcile?
Kind of manners and etiquetteand, and the potential for
reinforcing in equitable roles.
Annie Warshaw (15:09):
I mean, to me, it's about, you should be opening the door for anyone
because it's the kind of thing to do.
Like, it doesn't matter who they areand if you don't want to open the door,
you're not opening the door for anyone.
So to me, it's more about like, if you're.
Teaching those values from day.
One about like, here are mannersthat we treat all people with.
(15:30):
It's not going to be a conversationever around like, well, you're a boy,
so you need to open the door for a girl.
I see someone who needs a door open.
I opened the door for them.
Like I don't assess.
Oh, well, that man has strong arms.
He couldn't do it himself.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (15:44):
You know, I'm going to wait for this
man to open the door for me.
Like, yeah,
Annie Warshaw (15:48):
no you do.
I, when I have a stroller, whenpeople open a door for me yeah.
Because that's the right thing to do.
You see a person struggling,you help them, you know?
So like that's the values.
And I think those are the conversationsyou can have with your kids of
like, what are general valuesthat you believe in as a family?
And how do you show up forother people using them?
(16:10):
We, as a family, have a familyvalues that like we talk about and
all decisions are made based off of.
And that, you know, I think when youhave something to go back to in that way,
then you can, when you're having thoseharder conversations, you can talk about
like, well, does it align with this?
What does this look like in real life?
(16:30):
and you can talk about that, especially,you know, your kids are old enough where
you can have that actual conversation.
Whereas with toddlers, I'mgoing to be talking about.
Hey, I'm carrying this really heavy thingand I can't hold the door right up and
you hold it for me to help them learn.
Like, this is what you doto help other people out.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (16:48):
Right.
Family values.
We were just talking about kind ofusing our next big family dinner to each
contribute, different things that wewant to be on the family values list.
So hearing you say that.
Synchronicity like theuniverse telling me, or they, I
Annie Warshaw (17:03):
love that you're going to have them involved.
Right.
Because then they canfeel more ownership over.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (17:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so much good stuff.
For some reason, one aha moment for me,one point that really resonated was that
in addition to empowering our daughters,we need to support emotional literacy
and boys and teach them how to be allies.
(17:30):
I know this on a gut level, like Iknow how important it is and how good
it feels to have a supportive partner,but how is the mass media, retail
culture, our systems and structures,et cetera, really encouraging that.
I'm optimistic that a lot of today'sparents have this on their radar.
It actually remindedme of my friend's son.
She has three daughters and one son.
(17:51):
And when she found a hair rubber bandin his backpack and asked him about it,
he said he carried it just in case oneof the girls, his sisters needed it.
How amazing is that?
And think how much easier, safer andfairer would the world be for girls
and women, if that kind of empathy andthoughtfulness was more widespread.
(18:13):
So to recap the key takeaways frommy chat with Annie, number one,
we want our kids to question us.
It may sometimes feel like disagreementor maybe even rebelliousness, but if we
want our kids to thoughtfully questionthings outside of the home, whether
it's school, their activities in theworkplace and in society, they have
(18:34):
to feel safe asking questions of you.
If we shut them down, they'll learnthat their voices aren't valid.
Number two.
If we want gender equity, we needto not just support girls, but
support boys and becoming emotionallyliterate so they can become allies
and are aware of alternatives tomessages of toxic masculinity.
(18:55):
Gender equity is not just aboutwomen advancing it's about men.
Being able to be fully realizedhumans it's about everyone, no
matter their gender identity, beingtreated with fairness and kindness,
having the same opportunitiesand being able to live freely.
Number four.
Being aware of gender equity meansnoticing the language that's used the
(19:17):
presence of gender neutral options,like bathrooms and the books and media
that are available to us and our kids.
And number five, come up with a list offamily values that you and your family
can use to help guide decisions andactions, things like kindness, fairness.
Applying these to everyone, regardlessof gender essentially takes a
(19:39):
gender neutral approach and thathelps foster equitable relations.
To learn more about mission propeland the gender equity consulting
and coaching they provide.
You can visit mission propel.com.
That's mission P R O P E L L e.com orfollow mission underscore propel again.
(19:59):
That's P R O P E L L E on Instagram.
And for information about youth Allianceyoga, go to youth Alliance, yoga.com.
These links are in the show notes.
I hope you found some helpfulinformation in today's episode.
I want to applaud you and sayhow much I appreciate you for
taking the time to listen.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please subscribe or follow, tell
(20:22):
a friend and feel free to leavea review in apple podcasts.
You can also follow at no be raisedthem on Instagram for quotes from wise
women advice and more, and like ourFacebook page, just look up, know them,
be them, raise them and you'll find it.
Thank you and here's to strong women.
May we know them?
May we be them?
(20:42):
And may we raise them?
undefined
So as you know, March iswomen's history month.
And March 8th isinternational women's day.
The theme for 2023 is embrace equity.
This immediately made me think ofan early episode I did with Annie
Warshaw, who is a professor of genderstudies at Roosevelt university.
And founder of mission propel.
(00:22):
I really listened to it andreally took away many things
that either I had forgotten.
Or was hearing in a differentway so i decided to rehear it and
you'll be hearing that shortly
Before we go there.
I wanted to call out adistinction that the international
women's day organization.
Thanks.
It's helpful to understand aswe think about embracing equity.
(00:42):
And that is the differencebetween equality and equity.
Equality means each individualor group of people is given the
same resources or opportunities.
Equity recognizes that each personhas different circumstances.
And gives the exact resourcesand opportunities needed.
To reach an equal outcome.
(01:04):
One thing that really helped me understandthe distinction that you may have seen.
Is this cartoon of individuals trying tolook over a fence there's basically two.
Two sides to the cartoon.
One is labeled equalityand one is labeled equity.
On the equality side, you see three.
Individuals of different Heights,all trying to see over a fence,
(01:25):
there's a tall, a middle-sizedone and a shorter one.
Person.
And they're all standingon the same sized box.
Unfortunately, that means that theshortest person still can't see
over the fence, the middle-sizedperson can just peek over and the
tall person can see over easily.
On the other side of thecartoon it's labeled equity.
And there the tall person has a boxthat allows them to see over the fence.
(01:49):
The middle-sized person has ataller box that also allows them
to see over the fence and theshorter person has the tallest box.
So all three individuals can see easilyover the fence with different sized boxes.
That really drove the point home.
So equality might mean givingpeople equal opportunities.
But equity looks like peoplehaving the same experience and,
(02:14):
and being able to engage in thoseopportunities in a meaningful way.
It really speaks to meeting people wherethey are and embracing differences.
I hope this will inspireyou to think about equity.
And how you might embraceequity going forward.
Welcome to know them.
Be them, raise them a show to helpmoms stay informed and inspired so
(02:38):
they can show up for themselves andtheir daughters the way they want to.
I'm your host Carmelitato join me each week.
As I cover a variety of topics, alldesigned to support, mindful and growth
oriented moms navigating these crucialyears, I'll talk to experts, moms who've
been there and read a curated selectionof articles with the author's permission
and drop in with my own thoughts on it.
(03:00):
This week's episode features AnnieWarshaw co-founder of mission propel
and a gender justice professor atRoosevelt university in our chat.
She shares the evolution of missionpropel breaks down what gender equity
is, explains how we can be aware of itand encourage it, and even how to reframe
our beliefs about old school etiquette.
So we can foster moreequitable gender roles.
(03:22):
And if you're hearing somescratching noises, it's not.
It's me, it was a new podcast ormisstep my ears just weren't attuned
to the noises when we were recording.
I think they're mostly in the firstcouple of minutes, but stick with me.
I promise there are some great takeaways.
Annie Warshaw (03:42):
uh, so thank you so much for having me on, I
really admire what you're tryingto do and just appreciate it.
So I have two companies priorto the pandemic mission.
Propels mission was to empower girls,to be advocates for themselves within
their classrooms and communities andfor boys to be allies towards girls for
(04:05):
the K through five groups of children.
And the way that we were doing thatwas we were working with in schools.
Using original storybooks thatmyself and my business partner
wrote, and we paired it with yoga.
We have served over 10,000students in the Chicago land area.
And then the pandemic hit and then we hadno business because the school is closed.
(04:26):
So we pivoted and quite frankly,we were kind of like, you know, we
had been running this business forseven years and we're like, we would
like a little bit of a change here.
That business, is now youthAlliance, yoga for short gay that
is still functioning in schools.
Mission propel is now thename for our new business.
And what we do is work to keep momsfrom dropping out of the workplace.
(04:47):
We have a two-pronged approach.
We work with corporations and nonprofitsand we coach their employees on how
to create a sustainable loving home.
So we work on relationships.
We work on, Actually creatinga sustainable schedule, having
an equitable partnership.
And then we do policy reviewof the workplace and we say,
(05:08):
look, we took care of this.
Person's home now.
Here's what you need to shift work-wiseand culture-wise, if you want this
person to actually stay and feelinvested in your company, love it.
So those.
Yeah.
So that has been going really well.
It's been really interesting and it'sreally exciting for Jill and I, my
business partner, because we're gettingto do something that we also love.
(05:28):
Like we loved working with kids,but now we're getting to teach
parents all of the skills that we'veacquired over the past, um, 15 years.
And it's been really fun.
It really
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (05:40):
kind of.
Some of my thinking about, showingup as a mom for our daughters, like,
it's, you, you both have to empoweryour daughter, but you also have to
model these behaviors and structuresthat you want the future to look like.
So you kind of address that throughboth of those angles, like the work
you're doing now, establishing.
(06:01):
Things should look like at home and thenalso at work, I think it's phenomenal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A good
Annie Warshaw (06:05):
chunk of what we do when we're talking about like
parenting and building emotionalintelligence and that sort of stuff.
It's really all around like what weas parents are doing and how we're
modeling that, you know, we often talkabout, especially when we're working
with dad, clients, or moms who like aregoing to go then talk to their partner.
If they're male identified, youknow, the skillset versus.
(06:26):
Value set in how we teachskills, verse values.
Um, so this idea of like, you need tolisten to me because I said so like
is not teaching any skill it's andit's not teaching any value either.
Right?
Like the idea is, well, I'm teachingyou respect, you don't teach respect.
You show respect, you model respect.
You talk about respect, but byhaving your kid brush their teeth,
(06:48):
because you said they need to brushtheir teeth is not teaching them.
You're in that circumstance, whatyour objective is, is to teach them a
skill, which is to brush their teeth.
So the mechanism of which youget them to do that can vary.
And, you know, we talkedabout those strategies.
Walking away being like,you have to do this.
Cause I said, so like, isn't going to getyou the outcome that you're intending.
(07:08):
And so when we think about likemodeling in that particular
circumstance, it's really aboutshowing respect and how do you listen?
Why don't they want to brush their teeth?
Like how can you provide themthe structure and routine
and consistency, versus.
I'm doing this cause, oryou're going to do this cause
I told you so, which teaches?
No.
Right.
(07:29):
So
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (07:29):
it's something that I, I know I grew up
with, um, you know, love my parents.
We get along great now, but there aredefinitely were definitely times growing
up where I'm like, why am I doing.
So I love that.
You're kind of getting at that, like,it's not enough to just say yeah.
Annie Warshaw (07:44):
I mean, because I had the same feeling and like, I mean, most
people say that stuff because they'rereverting to like what their parents
taught them, but teaching our kids, forexample, how to advocate for themselves.
If they do ask a question and you justshut them down, like, well, I told him,
so I told you so like, The opposite ofwhat you're trying to foster within them.
(08:04):
Right?
You want them to question that andif they are questioning things and
you're shooting them, then down,then they're going to say, well,
I should stop questioning things.
Or my voice is not valid as aspace, so I'm not going to use it.
Um, and so like, if we want themdoing that as a school, we need to
be also like offering that at home
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (08:22):
one hot.
I love what you're saying.
Run a hundred percent agree.
Annie Warshaw (08:28):
So kind of.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (08:30):
Jumping up to like a 35,000 foot view.
Um, can you tell our listenershow you define gender equity
and why it's important?
Annie Warshaw (08:38):
Yeah.
Um, I guess I should say so when I'm notdoing those two companies, I teach gender
justice, which is like the new women ingender studies at Roosevelt university.
Um, so like, everything I dois through this lens of gender.
So I have, , Two sons and a daughterand it goes, boy, girl, boy.
And I will tell you like, thisconversation is very much obviously
centered around girls, but onceI had a son, I was like, oh
(09:01):
my God, my world is in girls.
I, what am I going to do with this person?
And I became super passionate andI've done so much reading about like
toxic masculinity and, I feel likeif my, there are so many supports in
this world for girls, and that is notto say that we have gotten anywhere
near where we need to for women.
(09:22):
But we, as a culture, I thinkat least understand that we need
to provide programming for girlsand you know, that kind of stuff.
And we know, you know, youcould go buy a girl power shirt.
We have not done nearly asmuch for boys in terms of.
Teaching them how to be emotionallyliterate so that they can be real
allies and show up for girls not tobe pessimistic, but like, if we're not
(09:46):
doing that, we're never going to reachequity in the way that we want to.
Uh, you know, so my.
There's like three things that if mysons do, I will feel like an accomplished
parent first being voting, like that'shands down, they have to do that.
And then the other one is like, Inever want them to be a burden to
whoever their partner is in terms ofcleaning like this whole, like women
(10:08):
meant to load, you know, all that, likethat's skills that have been taught.
I want them to be in a partnership and beable to look in a kitchen, look around.
Oh, look, that thing was left out.
I'm going to go put itaway without being told.
That is how I will say I love it.
You know, that's not fair totheir, if they have a female
(10:28):
partner not fair to them.
And then that that's like a snowballeffect of like all these other
things that will be a burden to her,which will keep her from progressing
perhaps in her own life, in theway that she wants professionally.
Yeah.
And then the other piece is, you know,obviously they have to be a good,
outstanding human who's like, can have,I want them to be able to have like
real strong relationships with other menwhere they can talk about their feelings.
(10:51):
So for the boys, that's like my goal.
Um, those are wonderful goals.
Yeah.
I mean, and we all benefit from that.
Um, but for the, the question about genderequity, I mean, Within to that, right?
Like it's not just about womenadvancing it's about men being
able to be fully realized humans,which ultimately benefits women.
(11:14):
I mean, obviously there's huge linksbetween like toxic masculinity and
violence against women or the male gazeand how women view their own bodies.
But for me, ultimately, you know,gender equity is about getting
rid of patriarchy and maybe.
Not just opportunity, but everyone,no matter their gender identity is
treated with fairness and kindness,and doesn't matter who they are and
(11:38):
are afforded the same opportunitiesand can live freely in the same way.
So I can kind of
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (11:45):
curious, like as parents and looking at schools
or programs or environments, arethere things that we should look for?
That are characteristics of aplace that values gender equity
Annie Warshaw (11:58):
From a high level sort of, you know, district-wide, I think a
lot of schools or districts are movingtowards like an equity framework.
But oftentimes I think that that'sstill steeped in either racial
diversity or ethnic diversity.
And I don't see as much cognitiveawareness around gender.
So something as simple as like, whatkind of language are they using?
(12:21):
Is it like gender inclusive?
Um, do they have a genderinclusive bathroom?
And this to me is in the elementaryschool that should exist.
And if they don't, whatis their plan for that?
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (12:31):
I just want to interject that.
I would love that.
I think, I mean, I feel like everyone'slearning as we go along, but I, I
witnessed so many, elementary schoolstudents that are clearly on a journey
and having a gender neutral bathroom,which would just make it easier.
And I, and I think morerespectful to them.
Yeah.
Annie Warshaw (12:50):
Cause I do feel like people, I starting at least
in middle school, but I have notreally seen it in elementary schools.
I agree.
I mean, through the old mission, probably.
Yeah.
I mean, we've had, we had somany non-binary students, uh, you
know, starting in kindergarten.
Um, In terms of what a classroom, Imean, the books that are selected.
(13:14):
Oh yeah.
Um, you know, and, and ifyour teacher might not be.
They might be very well-intentioned itjust like not, no, like, I think as a
parent, like being like, oh, I heard aboutthis really great book that has a gender
fluid character or something like that.
because you know, I can think aboutlike my son's preschool teachers
and they're lovely people, but Iknow they're not like, let me go
(13:35):
find them was LGBTQ friendly books,but I know about all those books.
So I'm more than happy to be like, thisis a really funny book or whatever.
so I think the converse andthen also, you know, the.
History is being framed, how they'retalking about different events.
Like I know there's a lot of debategoing on around critical race theory.
I'm a trained historian.
(13:56):
And for me, I care, like Ialways, study like social history.
So like, what were everyday women doingduring this time period or whatever it is.
So, you know, a history teacher.
Does not have to integrateor implement, sorry.
Rather like a specific curriculum.
They can talk about like ordinary peopleand what they were doing and give more
(14:17):
perspective on, That there were otherpeople in history besides white men, um,
without it being controversial, honestly.
, so, you know, when you're talkingabout like, what were women's roles
during the American revolution orwhatever, it's not a controversial
thing, but, um, so yeah, so there aremany things teachers could be doing.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (14:36):
Absolutely.
So I'm curious what, aswe're thinking about.
the ways our environments cansupport or hinder our efforts.
How do you feel about like my I'm a bigmanners person, but related to that,
my parents were always like, might tomy brother, you open doors for women.
, to me, uh, when you're on a date,you should expect the guy to pay.
(15:00):
Um, so how do we reconcile?
Kind of manners and etiquetteand, and the potential for
reinforcing in equitable roles.
Annie Warshaw (15:09):
I mean, to me, it's about, you should be opening the door for anyone
because it's the kind of thing to do.
Like, it doesn't matter who they areand if you don't want to open the door,
you're not opening the door for anyone.
So to me, it's more about like, if you're.
Teaching those values from day.
One about like, here are mannersthat we treat all people with.
(15:30):
It's not going to be a conversationever around like, well, you're a boy,
so you need to open the door for a girl.
I see someone who needs a door open.
I opened the door for them.
Like I don't assess.
Oh, well, that man has strong arms.
He couldn't do it himself.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (15:44):
You know, I'm going to wait for this
man to open the door for me.
Like, yeah,
Annie Warshaw (15:48):
no you do.
I, when I have a stroller, whenpeople open a door for me yeah.
Because that's the right thing to do.
You see a person struggling,you help them, you know?
So like that's the values.
And I think those are the conversationsyou can have with your kids of
like, what are general valuesthat you believe in as a family?
And how do you show up forother people using them?
(16:10):
We, as a family, have a familyvalues that like we talk about and
all decisions are made based off of.
And that, you know, I think when youhave something to go back to in that way,
then you can, when you're having thoseharder conversations, you can talk about
like, well, does it align with this?
What does this look like in real life?
(16:30):
and you can talk about that, especially,you know, your kids are old enough where
you can have that actual conversation.
Whereas with toddlers, I'mgoing to be talking about.
Hey, I'm carrying this really heavy thingand I can't hold the door right up and
you hold it for me to help them learn.
Like, this is what you doto help other people out.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (16:48):
Right.
Family values.
We were just talking about kind ofusing our next big family dinner to each
contribute, different things that wewant to be on the family values list.
So hearing you say that.
Synchronicity like theuniverse telling me, or they, I
Annie Warshaw (17:03):
love that you're going to have them involved.
Right.
Because then they canfeel more ownership over.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (17:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so much good stuff.
For some reason, one aha moment for me,one point that really resonated was that
in addition to empowering our daughters,we need to support emotional literacy
and boys and teach them how to be allies.
(17:30):
I know this on a gut level, like Iknow how important it is and how good
it feels to have a supportive partner,but how is the mass media, retail
culture, our systems and structures,et cetera, really encouraging that.
I'm optimistic that a lot of today'sparents have this on their radar.
It actually remindedme of my friend's son.
She has three daughters and one son.
(17:51):
And when she found a hair rubber bandin his backpack and asked him about it,
he said he carried it just in case oneof the girls, his sisters needed it.
How amazing is that?
And think how much easier, safer andfairer would the world be for girls
and women, if that kind of empathy andthoughtfulness was more widespread.
(18:13):
So to recap the key takeaways frommy chat with Annie, number one,
we want our kids to question us.
It may sometimes feel like disagreementor maybe even rebelliousness, but if we
want our kids to thoughtfully questionthings outside of the home, whether
it's school, their activities in theworkplace and in society, they have
(18:34):
to feel safe asking questions of you.
If we shut them down, they'll learnthat their voices aren't valid.
Number two.
If we want gender equity, we needto not just support girls, but
support boys and becoming emotionallyliterate so they can become allies
and are aware of alternatives tomessages of toxic masculinity.
(18:55):
Gender equity is not just aboutwomen advancing it's about men.
Being able to be fully realizedhumans it's about everyone, no
matter their gender identity, beingtreated with fairness and kindness,
having the same opportunitiesand being able to live freely.
Number four.
Being aware of gender equity meansnoticing the language that's used the
(19:17):
presence of gender neutral options,like bathrooms and the books and media
that are available to us and our kids.
And number five, come up with a list offamily values that you and your family
can use to help guide decisions andactions, things like kindness, fairness.
Applying these to everyone, regardlessof gender essentially takes a
(19:39):
gender neutral approach and thathelps foster equitable relations.
To learn more about mission propeland the gender equity consulting
and coaching they provide.
You can visit mission propel.com.
That's mission P R O P E L L e.com orfollow mission underscore propel again.
(19:59):
That's P R O P E L L E on Instagram.
And for information about youth Allianceyoga, go to youth Alliance, yoga.com.
These links are in the show notes.
I hope you found some helpfulinformation in today's episode.
I want to applaud you and sayhow much I appreciate you for
taking the time to listen.
If you're enjoying the podcast,please subscribe or follow, tell
(20:22):
a friend and feel free to leavea review in apple podcasts.
You can also follow at no be raisedthem on Instagram for quotes from wise
women advice and more, and like ourFacebook page, just look up, know them,
be them, raise them and you'll find it.
Thank you and here's to strong women.
May we know them?
May we be them?
(20:42):
And may we raise them?
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