November 22, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of Kyle Talks, I sit down with Doug Kaplan, founder of Kaplan Strategies and a veteran public opinion pollster, to dive deep into what really drives people’s beliefs — and how we can talk to one another more thoughtfully. We explore the tension between data and lived experience, what it takes to persuade without dehumanizing, and why understanding public perception matters in every part of our lives.
Doug shares lessons from his career in polling thousands of campaigns, explains how he separates meaningful signals from public noise, and walks us through his perspective on the power of respectful dialogue — even when we strongly disagree.
Key Themes / Talking Points:
- The real psychology behind how opinions are formed (emotion vs. information)
- The role of social media in dividing or connecting people
- How to interpret polling data in a way that doesn’t strip away humanity
- Why “changing minds” isn’t just about winning arguments — it’s about understanding people
- Lessons from public opinion work that apply in business, leadership, and culture
- What gives Doug hope about the future of public conversation
Why You Should Listen:
If you’ve ever wondered why people believe what they do, or how to talk to someone with a totally different worldview, this episode will give you fresh insights and practical wisdom. Whether you care about politics, conversations at work, or just connecting better with people around you — Doug’s experience will challenge and encourage you.
Social Media:
Insta/X: kyleTHEhorton
Youtube: Kyletalkss
Tiktok: KyleTalkss
Intro: Head In The Clouds by Matthew Morelock
Outro: Surfaces Type Beat - Jellyfish Beats
Find Doug here
Send your question in @ KyleTalksPodcast@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
I am so excited.
We have a great episode to jumpinto hello, money.
First of all, how you doing?
How's the day going?
Hope you're doing well.
Turn down the volume a littlebit.
Enjoy this upcoming conversationthat I had with Doug Kaplan, who
has worked decades in pollingpublic opinion.
He's worked in the politicaloffices.
He's been on the street talkingto people left and right,
(00:46):
center, no matter where theyare, about their opinions, where
they got them from.
And in this episode, he tells useverything about how people
think, why they think the waythey do, and how they get to
their opinions.
And really what changes minds,evidence or emotion.
I have a great conversation withmy friend Doug Kaplan.
We learned a lot about people.
(01:07):
We learned a lot about how totalk across the other aisle,
meet people where they're at,and just have conversations and
make us talk great again.
I'm really happy of the work ofthe conversation.
I'm I think Doug does greatwork.
If you want to check him out,links are in the show notes
below.
But with that said, let's jumpright into my conversation with
our friend Doug Kaplan.
(01:29):
Okay, Doug Kaplan, welcome tothe podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
How are you?
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Of course.
Thank you for being on.
Um, and when I when we weretalking, discussing back and
forth, what really intrigued me,and just to jump right into it,
um, the work you do.
So if you could tell us a littlebit, what drew you to polling
and politics and that kind ofworld?
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
You know, my background was in politics and
really advertising.
And um I I was um didadvertising for the mortgage
industry, and I kind of afterthe 2008 crash, I kind of
morphed into pol back intopolitics, um, what I went to
school for.
(02:15):
Um, and I and I had thebackground in advertising.
So we started out uh as apolitical advertising firm, and
then polling was something thatwe added in 2012.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Um so you're the guy who sends the text messages?
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Is that what that we that's one thing we do direct
mail, television, internetadvertising?
So we we do it all, we do itall.
Awesome, awesome.
Um knocks on doors.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Well, oh, you do door, or it's like your team or
yeah, team.
Oh, okay.
Okay, that is I always tell mywife this when we go places door
to door.
I I will die on the sill.
I think that's one of the mostcharacter-building things you
can do because so many peoplewill tell you no, they'll like
(03:06):
write you off, you get a lot ofrejection.
So I think that's actually Ithink rejection is good for
people.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Yeah, uh um, the this is one of the big ones I
want to ask you.
I don't mean to hit you with bigquestions or off the back.
Um, but here it is.
So in the world and what you do,how you make a living, what's
something that someone mightmisunderstand about how opinions
are formed?
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
That can they think that politics is more like a
crystal ball and it's in thefuture, versus it's more excuse
me, polling is more like acrystal ball and it's in the
future, where really it's thecurrent, it's at the moment.
Anything can change tomorrow,but currently is where the polls
are at at this moment.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
What do you mean by that?
I think I'm not missing, I'm notunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
So if I give you a poll in Florida on the Florida
governor's race, right?
So it's where the race is today.
Um, it's not where the race isnext week.
Next week the results can changebecause events on the ground are
gonna change things.
So things happen, you know,things change, etc.
So a poll that was taken twoweeks before the election is
(04:20):
very different than a poll takenthe night before the election.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
Interesting.
Dow does okay, now I'minterested.
Does that the day-to-day stuffhappening, does that change?
I'd assume yes, but is how doesthat change like polling and
what you do?
Do you have to have a strategy?
If A happens, I have to do B orif C, etc., etc.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, if you you know you'redoing it for a campaign, you
might do many polls.
Um, you're looking, you know, tostart with where you start, and
then you know you want to see ifdifferent advertising is
working.
Uh, you might do something atthe end, and then you might do
something, you know, if there'sa big event that happens.
SPEAKER_02 (05:03):
Gotcha.
And do you plan for thesethings, or is it just like
you've okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
It's all part of the campaign plan.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Gotcha, gotcha.
And you know, the podcast, um,we're focused on having
conversations even when youvehemently disagree with
someone.
Um, and one of the beautifulthings, I think is beautiful at
least, you can pick and choosewho you have a conversation with
or who you interact with.
And I think this is apparentlyso in the world of in your
(05:33):
world, and polling politics,because there's so much, whether
how you were raised, what schoolyou went to, what you consume as
a consumer as far as informationand things like that.
So, one of my big questions fromyou when it comes to opinions
and polling and things likethat, what changes opinions?
(05:55):
Is it evidence?
Is it opinions?
Is it how they say the opinionsin your experience?
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
I think evidence is is is one thing.
I think it's um building, youknow, building a name
recognition, uh, building anarrative, uh, compare and
contrast, all those differentthings.
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
So if I'm uh just Kyle and I go to vote and
whatever it is, could let's sayfor the sake of the argument, I
I'm right um for the argumentpolitically.
Would anything the left or theright, depending where you are,
can say can they say anything ordo anything to change my
(06:39):
opinion, or am I just set in myways that you've seen?
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
Yeah, I think of course.
I think of course uh on what theissues are, and especially on
damn down ballor races, youmight not um remember anything
about the down baller raceexcept the sign that you saw.
So it's all about you know, it'sall about it depends on the race
that you're working on, um, frompresident to city councilman,
(07:04):
um, but it's all about buildingname recognition and and
building that story, you know,telling a story of the campaign
and why people should vote foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (07:14):
So even if, with that in mind, then so even if um
there's there's excuse me,evidence presented, whatever, if
this individual builds, like,here's my name, etc.
etc., here's what I believe in,that can win people like
permanently.
Like, oh, I am always there'snothing that can change my mind.
(07:38):
I know this person, I know theirbrand.
That person can't be changed.
You're in your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's hard.
That's why incumbents generallywin.
You know, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I am a little ignorant.
I don't know what that is.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Like someone who's already in office, they
generally don't lose, theygenerally keep winning.
Like congressmen or governors,you know, some governors have
term limits, but generally, ifyou're in office already, you
generally keep winning becausepeople people might not like
Congress, but they like theirelected officials, they like
(08:10):
their own congressmen.
SPEAKER_02 (08:13):
Okay, so okay, that's I mean, I've seen that,
so that makes sense.
So when turn when it comes towhen it comes to rerunning and
they always win, let's go onthat.
I want to open that up a littlemore.
So there is no people like, oh,let's say it's John Doe.
(08:35):
I really like John Doe.
He's ran for the past five,whatever it is, years.
I'm just gonna vote for him.
If I'm John Doe, do I have tospeak on anything different?
Do I have to change minds, or Ijust have to keep the current
people, supporters I currentlyhave?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Yeah, you have to keep the supporters, remind
people about the future, remindpeople of what you've done, of
what you have done for them.
Um, you know, there's almost a90% chance that someone gets
re-elected, the way districtsare drawn and stuff like that.
So it's it's so it's itre-election is is it's very hard
(09:16):
to go to the end's incumbent.
They have fundraisingadvantages, it's all types of
things.
Um, that's why you generally seethe same elected officials
always.
Usually about 10% of the racesare competitive.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
Only 10% are competitive.
So if if I'm I'm I'm Jane Doegoing against John Doe, I have a
way more up with battle becauseJohn Doe has been in it for five
plus years.
How can I break that if I'm thatperson?
And though the perspective Iwant us to keep is talking to
(09:51):
people, regardless of whereverthey land and having that
conversation.
If I'm trying to haveconversation with people who
maybe disagree, maybe agree, butthis person has ran for X amount
of years.
Do I really have a chance?
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
You you do, it's not a great chance, but you do.
That's why I said there's abouta 90% re-elect rate.
But you know, it depends on theelection, depends if people want
change, a little luck isinvolved.
Uh, depends who the candidateis, uh, depends how you can
fundraise, how your grassrootsis.
(10:27):
Um, so there's so many factorsthat that matter.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Interesting.
So, what changes people'sopinion over time then?
Like maybe we do need a change,or maybe it's a day-to-day
event, or how does that happen?
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
I I find you have to keep keep hitting that same
message of change.
SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Well, you you know, you have to keep hitting the
same message to people that youwant change, and I'm the change
candidate, and I'm a changecandidate because of this, and
you know, Bill Jones is thereason we need term limits
because he's been there so long,and and and all of and you know,
all that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
I would definitely agree with that part.
Um I'm very curious now withwhat you've said and what you've
seen.
I've already learned stuff,we're not that far into it.
Uh with how do you think Kyletalks?
The podcast is a gold audience.
(11:31):
We care about crossing thedivide.
Understanding maybe this personhas a point I disagree with, and
maybe I might think they'revile.
Um, maybe I don't like theirpoint of opinion, and that makes
me not like the person.
How does that translate topolling?
Like, I don't not sure if I'marticulating what I my question
(11:55):
here, but it's like, yeah, goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
Um, I think you'll answer, you know, there's
there's generally scales on howhow much you dislike an issue or
how how strongly you oppose anissue.
So if you vehemently dislikesomething, you you'll rate
something higher.
You know what I'm saying?
So you'll be more likely tostrongly oppose than somewhat
(12:17):
oppose something or somebody.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
So then what changes people's if if that's the idea
and you've seen it, you're theexpert, I trust you.
Um, I don't know, obviously.
I think that's clear.
How do you, if someone stronglydisagree on whatever the issue
is, you can pick, how do they gofrom strongly disagree to
(12:41):
disagree to neutral to wait aminute, I think I actually
agree.
Is that from social media andpersonalities, or is that more
from political candidates?
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
It's very hard.
I mean, think of it like thisgetting someone to buy a Samsung
instead of if they're an Appleuser, you know, switching them
from using iPhone to Android, orvice versa.
People are generally um set setin it set in their ways.
So, like in a presidentialelection, cross you might have a
guy that voted for, let's say,Biden, and then a very, very
(13:18):
small percentage voted for Trumpthis time, but they changed
over.
You know, really it's aboutturnout and turning your people
out and getting your groups ofpeople to turn out for someone
like Trump, it's getting peoplein rural America to turn out.
If for someone like uh Biden orHarris who ran last time, it's
getting you know people in thecities to turn out.
(13:40):
So at higher levels, let's saythan they turned out last time.
SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
Interesting.
So then if I'm following and I'munderstanding what you're saying
correctly, they get their mainsupporter base using the last
president of the duck, forexample, um, rural cities.
You I feel like you definitelyhave information of where you're
most liked, especially if you'regoing for a president.
With that in mind, then you tryto rally your base, whatever
(14:07):
that may look like for each.
And then it sounds like what canchange minds there is people.
Maybe, maybe the candidate forsure, and maybe I could be
wrong, and you can correct me,but it sounds like the candidate
can, sure, but it sounds likethe people reiterating what the
(14:28):
candidate is saying.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Uh yeah, I think that's the that's the that's the
key thing, you know, and keepyou know, you keep you you hone
in on two or three things andyou keep repeating it and
repeating it and repeating it,and it's issues that get in, you
know, that that that that getinto people's minds, and and and
you know, and it's it could becultural issues, it could be
(14:51):
financial issues, uh, you know,economic issues, kitchen table
issues, so those things, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Okay, so the link here sounds like it's people
ultimately when it I mean, ofcourse there's other outside
forces, but it sounds likepeople change people's mind on
whatever that may be.
Okay.
How do you I'm not there's ahard hitter, how do you get
(15:19):
around those?
If someone's like full stonewallbricked, I will not move, is
that a good place to be, in youropinion, as an individual?
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
I think it's about 30% uh of the population, 35% of
the population that's you know,will not move, and then it gets
somewhat moved, you know, it'sanother fifth 15, 20, 15, 20.
I think it's about five to sevenpeople that you can really swing
(15:56):
out of like a state or in likewhat's the the country.
Wow, five to seven people.
Okay, five to seven percent,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Wow.
How and I know you've talkedabout it more, about I want to
stay on this train of thought.
How do you I know we talkedabout people, message, hitting
the same message, being resoluteso people can like and it's a
person, it's like it's justcrazy to me because like they
you know, we all get sick, weall have to use the restroom,
(16:29):
etc.
But people like to look at thesepeople, especially in the
political scene, and say this iswhat they stand for, almost like
a god in some senses, and theyfollow that.
Question staying on this thoughtis changing how to win people
over.
What does that look like?
(16:50):
I know we discussed people, orif you can kind of draw that out
a bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
You gotta try to influence people.
It doesn't always have to be inpositive messages, but you you
have to try to influence peopleon what they what they care
about, and you can you canchange minds.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
What do you mean by it doesn't always have to be
positive messages?
Like what is positive?
What does that look like?
What's the option?
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
You see campaigns that might have negative
messaging.
You see some, you know, you seepositive messages, but you also
see negative messaging.
Um negative messaging does acouple of things.
One, it it it it rallies yourown supporters, two, it kind of
keep so it might not turn peopleover for you, but it might keep
(17:38):
them on the sidelines.
Um doesn't always work, butsometimes it does.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
Okay.
Okay.
It's hard to think what we'retrying to break through.
Uh we need to talk to peopleagain.
Um, and and I'm younger, I sayon the podcast I'm 28.
I'm there's still things I don'tknow, but I think people are
(18:06):
tired of um outrage your XYZbased on these beliefs that I
may or agree or disagree,probably disagree, so I'm gonna
label you these things.
Is that helpful in the pollingworld?
Like, is that oh, these guys area slam dunk, I can get them
(18:27):
easily, or is it like stressful?
Like, oh, I don't know how I'mgonna get these guys, like
they're are they just writtenoff, you can't.
SPEAKER_01 (18:35):
Well, polling, we just provide results, and then
the candidate does what theywant to do with it, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
They read the results, and then they go, Okay,
well, that these are the issues,these are the results, these are
I'm gonna I'm gonna listen orI'm not gonna listen, you know.
I mean the scientific methods,and you give them the and you
give them the results, and thenthe candidate decides, okay, am
I gonna have positive messages,negative messages?
Am I gonna try to run to themiddle, or am I gonna have a
(19:01):
base election and focus on mybase and turning out more people
in my base?
That's why you see Trump soartful in in politics, he's able
to turn out his base more andmore people each year.
He's on the each time he's onthe ballot because he's able to
he focuses on issues that hisbase cares about.
(19:22):
Um Bill Clinton was so artfulbecause he was able to turn out
people in the middle, um,because he he focused on the the
middle ground.
So it just depends on the personand the year we're in and where
the country is, and just so manyfactors.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
From what you see, and I know there's a lot of
factors.
Does like you're saying with thebass stuff, bass rallies, trying
to?
I mean, say whatever whateverpeople are listening to this,
whatever you feel about Trump,he obviously knows how to get it
like the rallies, the song, thelittle dance thing, the meme
thing.
So it's like it's clear.
Regardless of how you feel abouthim, he knows how to work his
(20:03):
base, his base supporters.
Is that beneficial?
Like, how can because you haveto win other people the middle,
right?
Or do you only have to win yourbase as a candidate?
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
I mean, there's a couple of ways to go about it,
but yes, if you just win yourbase, and right now it's kind of
a 50-50 country, you know,meaning what?
It's 50% one side, 50% the otherside.
So it's a very, it's a veryclose, it's a very close
electorate.
So the key is just turning outpeople that that that agree with
(20:38):
you.
Um Trump won 51% of the Trumpwon by 1% of the vote last time.
So, you know, it was not alandslide victory or anything
like that.
He won by a lot more inelectoral college.
That's a whole anotherconversation.
Um, but but you know, so it, youknow, it's it's it's it's it's
(21:00):
it's different candidates dodifferent things, you know.
Uh you look at George Bush, thehis first his first campaign, he
tried to bring people in.
Then the second campaign, heran, he focused on his cultural
issues and focused on his base,and he won re-election.
So that's kind of how it's done.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Yeah.
So then how do we?
I know we've talked aboutpolitics a lot, those people,
but the main message, it'sunfortunate a lot of this
conversation stuff's aroundpolitics.
I feel like it wasn't alwayslike that.
I feel like, or maybe it was,but as I got older, it feels
like that's been more one of myquestions for you that I'm
(21:40):
asking of everyone has becausewe're discussing politics.
Has politics always been this sodivisive?
Or if I in your opinion,whatever that is, what you've
seen personally, like did itramp up in like 2016, or has it
always been like that?
And I just as a kid, I neverpaid attention.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
I think it's always been extremely divisive.
I mean, you go back to JohnAdams and Thomas Jefferson.
Um, I think social media hasamplified it, yeah.
So it's kind of in your facemore, but it's always been
extremely divisive, and it'sit's it's it's it's always has
been.
You know, there's only certainthere's only been 44, 45
(22:24):
presidents, so there's there'sthere's um there's a lot of
competition for it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
And this comes down to lower levels too, like uh I
know Congress is big, but forlike local government, is that
same mentality kind of persistor is it a little different?
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Yeah, people find it out on a local level.
You'd be you'd you'd besurprised.
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
I feel like there's stories there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Yeah, and you know, people they know each other,
they live in a neighborhood, sothey see each other outside in
public, and it's just such very,very interesting.
Local politics a little bit morepersonal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Okay, so okay, I'm just digesting.
Um, so seeing that it's alwaysbeen like this, what's the
divide?
Like, and you're what you'veseen just personally in your
work, how do we cross thatdivide?
(23:23):
Like, hey, I disagree on this,you are super for it, whatever
that is, or vice versa.
How do you make that connectionwithout being like, because
today, oh, you believe this?
You're a bigot, I hate you,you're annoying.
And I don't think that'sproductive, like in the
slightest.
You can have those feelings, butI don't think that's productive.
(23:45):
How can I reach across based onyour experience and have a
conversation with someone thatmay be opposed to whatever I
agree or disagree with?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
I think you can have a conversation with most people.
You you'd you'd be surprised.
Um, the hardliners on bothparties are are just a
percentage of people.
It's not a 50 percentage, it's acertain percentage of people who
are just 100% set in their ways.
They don't want to talk to you.
But I think most people are,most Americans are reasonable
(24:17):
one way or the other.
And then it comes down, it justcomes down to other issues,
socioeconomical, it comes downto you know, education, so many
different things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:27):
Okay.
So it sounds like then socialmedia has made it, like you said
earlier, made it kind of put itmore in your face to make it
seem more divisive orcontroversial than it is.
Because if you talk to someoneon the street, it sounds like
they'd be cool, but on socialmedia it's not that way, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
Right.
I mean, it's social media hasjust amplified it, and it's you
know, everyone, everyone isthere.
Used to be three um mediacompanies.
Now everyone is a journalist,right?
Yeah, can have a podcast orwhatever, yeah.
And and it's just so so so muchin your face now, and um people
see it.
I think people have a much moreof a uh I don't know if they
(25:11):
have more knowledge, but more ofan interest in it now.
Um, and people are much moreinvested in it in politics right
now.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
I saw this video.
Um, all this lines up perfectlyto what we're talking about,
where it was, I don't it was along time ago, but it was this
video.
This guy, um, it was allanimated, he was like watching
stuff, scrolling YouTube, and itwas for some fake idea for the
video, but it like changed hismind and changed the mind and
(25:42):
changed his mind.
Of course, it's all over socialmedia, and then he was, I think
the word is radicalized, likewhat by this fake idea on this
video, and then he went to go dopretty unfortunate things.
But my curious, uh that video,even as I think I saw as a
teenager in high school, and Iwas like, wow, that is fast
(26:04):
forward 10 plus years.
Here we are still the same.
I think that video is very muchtrue.
Do you think that's reality?
Like, is that a real case thingfor most people?
They get indoctrinated bywhatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Definitely a percentage of the population
does for sure.
Um, they get radicalized, and Idon't think that's a high
percentage, but I think it'senough to cause problems.
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
What do you mean by enough to cause like for
individuals, for candidates?
Let's assume they don't doanything weird.
SPEAKER_01 (26:38):
Individual people, yeah, where where people go down
rabbit holes and all that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
Do you so just your opinion?
Do you think that's helpful forpeople?
Do you think that is good forpeople?
Like, do you think whereverwhatever side doesn't matter?
SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
I don't know.
I mean, I don't want to tellpeople what to how to live their
life.
I think for me, I try to getinformation from all different
sources, yeah, you know, left,right, center, so I can kind of
judge it for myself.
Because I don't I don't thinkthe media really tells the truth
per se.
Yeah, um, so or they have anagenda.
Um, so I think you know, if ifif you invest your time in all
(27:24):
sides and reading it, you canmake your own decisions.
SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
I would agree.
And what's crazy about that,Doug, is a lot of people will
hear that.
Um, I know I face backlash forhaving these ideas.
Um, it's unfortunate because Iam not a political commentator,
but I do value conversation.
I want people to talk to youwherever you land, it's up to
you, it's your prerogative.
(27:51):
But we have to talk to eachother more.
And if and just to agree withyou, I do think social media
has, especially in commentsections and emails.
I've seen it, or it's like, oh,you don't degree agree or
disagree.
I'm gonna call I've been calledthe worst names in the book, so
(28:11):
it's like how that divide needsto change.
I don't know, maybe maybe I'mignorant and bit a bit naive.
Your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
No, I think you're 100% right.
There's so much venomous uh outthere, you know, keyboard
warriors that are out there thatsay what they want.
They would never have an ad,they would never have a forum
before social media to say someof these things, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
I heard that too.
This is we what is that here?
The platform.
Now they have a platform,regardless of how many people
follow or etc., they have aplatform now, and they can push
out this rhetoric, whatever thatmay be.
Um, they can have that now.
And since there's no face, it'slike I can say that I can, it's
(28:59):
easier to dehumanize you.
That's what it feels like.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
I think so.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
That so I know we're coming at time, and I'm gonna be
respectful um of your time.
Um, we do thank you so much,Doug, by the way.
Thank you.
Um, I do this thing, I it'scontinuing the conversation.
I like to ask every guest yourthoughts on, then you would give
me your thoughts on whateverthat is, and then you give me a
(29:28):
prompt for the next guest.
So they'll answer.
You get to start it.
Um, so Doug, can you give meyour thoughts on people?
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
I think that um that people are very complicated, but
in in the end, we all you knowbleed red, right?
Yeah, and I think you know, mostof us get get along, you know.
And um, I think my prompt forthis for the next guest would be
how do you change people?
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
I like that.
It's like you're reading mymind.
I like that.
Your thoughts on changingpeople, I like that.
Well, Doug, thank you for beingon Royal Talks.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:12):
It's a great segment, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (30:15):
And everyone, that is our conversation with Doug.
I really hope you learned a lot.
Um, yeah, I had a great timewith Doug.
Um, as we said, this wassupposed to be in person, so I'm
sorry I forgot.
I guess I didn't have a record,even though I thought I did, but
I still hope you got somethingout of value of this
conversation.
Let me tell you what I gotquickly.
(30:36):
Talking to people matters.
We learned that it's a mix ofboth.
Evidence, here's why I'm right,but how you say it, how you
break it to them, how youpresent it is almost more
important than the evidenceitself, which was really
interesting.
Um, and I really got a lot.
And that's something I think Ican think about a lot um in this
episode in life.
When I go and I speak to peoplewho I agree with, who I don't
(30:58):
agree with, who are indifferent.
There's lots to learn here.
And I hope you got something ofvalue too.
Thank you for the thank you forjoining us today.
Thank you for being in theconversation with Doug.
Um, again, if you want to knowmore about Doug's work, maybe
you want to have him run apolitical campaign.
I hear he's the guy for it.
Um, you can check out his linksin the show notes down below.
But guys, the podcast isgrowing.
(31:19):
Thank you guys so much.
I mean, we are on top charts forlike personal and finance.
We're we're trailblazing.
That's because people want tohave conversations again.
And this conversation with Doug,I think was just the start.
Just the start of who we'll getto talk to and what it means for
us going forward.
If you would like to help us inthat endeavor, please go ahead
(31:42):
and leave a review.
Um, wherever you're listening tothis podcast, like it.
Share this episode out withsomebody somewhere on um
Instagram, TikTok, X, whereveryou're at, Kyle the Horton.
Um, I would love it if you guysdid.
Thank you guys so much.
Let's keep having betterconversations.
Let's talk to each other andlet's be the change.
We're starting right here, rightnow.
(32:04):
And there's already a lot of youwho say, Yeah, I'm here for it.
So let's keep going.
Help us spread the mission, helpus keep going.
And if no one has told you thisyet, one person died for you
because he could not imagineeternal life without you.
And that man's name is JesusChrist.
I'll see you guys next time onCloud Talks.
Hope you enjoy.
Peace.
I am so excited.
We have a great episode to jumpinto hello, money.
First of all, how you doing?
How's the day going?
Hope you're doing well.
Turn down the volume a littlebit.
Enjoy this upcoming conversationthat I had with Doug Kaplan, who
has worked decades in pollingpublic opinion.
He's worked in the politicaloffices.
He's been on the street talkingto people left and right,
(00:46):
center, no matter where theyare, about their opinions, where
they got them from.
And in this episode, he tells useverything about how people
think, why they think the waythey do, and how they get to
their opinions.
And really what changes minds,evidence or emotion.
I have a great conversation withmy friend Doug Kaplan.
We learned a lot about people.
(01:07):
We learned a lot about how totalk across the other aisle,
meet people where they're at,and just have conversations and
make us talk great again.
I'm really happy of the work ofthe conversation.
I'm I think Doug does greatwork.
If you want to check him out,links are in the show notes
below.
But with that said, let's jumpright into my conversation with
our friend Doug Kaplan.
(01:29):
Okay, Doug Kaplan, welcome tothe podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
How are you?
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Of course.
Thank you for being on.
Um, and when I when we weretalking, discussing back and
forth, what really intrigued me,and just to jump right into it,
um, the work you do.
So if you could tell us a littlebit, what drew you to polling
and politics and that kind ofworld?
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
You know, my background was in politics and
really advertising.
And um I I was um didadvertising for the mortgage
industry, and I kind of afterthe 2008 crash, I kind of
morphed into pol back intopolitics, um, what I went to
school for.
(02:15):
Um, and I and I had thebackground in advertising.
So we started out uh as apolitical advertising firm, and
then polling was something thatwe added in 2012.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Um so you're the guy who sends the text messages?
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Is that what that we that's one thing we do direct
mail, television, internetadvertising?
So we we do it all, we do itall.
Awesome, awesome.
Um knocks on doors.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Well, oh, you do door, or it's like your team or
yeah, team.
Oh, okay.
Okay, that is I always tell mywife this when we go places door
to door.
I I will die on the sill.
I think that's one of the mostcharacter-building things you
can do because so many peoplewill tell you no, they'll like
(03:06):
write you off, you get a lot ofrejection.
So I think that's actually Ithink rejection is good for
people.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Yeah, uh um, the this is one of the big ones I
want to ask you.
I don't mean to hit you with bigquestions or off the back.
Um, but here it is.
So in the world and what you do,how you make a living, what's
something that someone mightmisunderstand about how opinions
are formed?
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
That can they think that politics is more like a
crystal ball and it's in thefuture, versus it's more excuse
me, polling is more like acrystal ball and it's in the
future, where really it's thecurrent, it's at the moment.
Anything can change tomorrow,but currently is where the polls
are at at this moment.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
What do you mean by that?
I think I'm not missing, I'm notunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
So if I give you a poll in Florida on the Florida
governor's race, right?
So it's where the race is today.
Um, it's not where the race isnext week.
Next week the results can changebecause events on the ground are
gonna change things.
So things happen, you know,things change, etc.
So a poll that was taken twoweeks before the election is
(04:20):
very different than a poll takenthe night before the election.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
Interesting.
Dow does okay, now I'minterested.
Does that the day-to-day stuffhappening, does that change?
I'd assume yes, but is how doesthat change like polling and
what you do?
Do you have to have a strategy?
If A happens, I have to do B orif C, etc., etc.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, if you you know you'redoing it for a campaign, you
might do many polls.
Um, you're looking, you know, tostart with where you start, and
then you know you want to see ifdifferent advertising is
working.
Uh, you might do something atthe end, and then you might do
something, you know, if there'sa big event that happens.
SPEAKER_02 (05:03):
Gotcha.
And do you plan for thesethings, or is it just like
you've okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
It's all part of the campaign plan.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Gotcha, gotcha.
And you know, the podcast, um,we're focused on having
conversations even when youvehemently disagree with
someone.
Um, and one of the beautifulthings, I think is beautiful at
least, you can pick and choosewho you have a conversation with
or who you interact with.
And I think this is apparentlyso in the world of in your
(05:33):
world, and polling politics,because there's so much, whether
how you were raised, what schoolyou went to, what you consume as
a consumer as far as informationand things like that.
So, one of my big questions fromyou when it comes to opinions
and polling and things likethat, what changes opinions?
(05:55):
Is it evidence?
Is it opinions?
Is it how they say the opinionsin your experience?
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
I think evidence is is is one thing.
I think it's um building, youknow, building a name
recognition, uh, building anarrative, uh, compare and
contrast, all those differentthings.
SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
So if I'm uh just Kyle and I go to vote and
whatever it is, could let's sayfor the sake of the argument, I
I'm right um for the argumentpolitically.
Would anything the left or theright, depending where you are,
can say can they say anything ordo anything to change my
(06:39):
opinion, or am I just set in myways that you've seen?
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
Yeah, I think of course.
I think of course uh on what theissues are, and especially on
damn down ballor races, youmight not um remember anything
about the down baller raceexcept the sign that you saw.
So it's all about you know, it'sall about it depends on the race
that you're working on, um, frompresident to city councilman,
(07:04):
um, but it's all about buildingname recognition and and
building that story, you know,telling a story of the campaign
and why people should vote foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (07:14):
So even if, with that in mind, then so even if um
there's there's excuse me,evidence presented, whatever, if
this individual builds, like,here's my name, etc.
etc., here's what I believe in,that can win people like
permanently.
Like, oh, I am always there'snothing that can change my mind.
(07:38):
I know this person, I know theirbrand.
That person can't be changed.
You're in your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's hard.
That's why incumbents generallywin.
You know, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I am a little ignorant.
I don't know what that is.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Like someone who's already in office, they
generally don't lose, theygenerally keep winning.
Like congressmen or governors,you know, some governors have
term limits, but generally, ifyou're in office already, you
generally keep winning becausepeople people might not like
Congress, but they like theirelected officials, they like
(08:10):
their own congressmen.
SPEAKER_02 (08:13):
Okay, so okay, that's I mean, I've seen that,
so that makes sense.
So when turn when it comes towhen it comes to rerunning and
they always win, let's go onthat.
I want to open that up a littlemore.
So there is no people like, oh,let's say it's John Doe.
(08:35):
I really like John Doe.
He's ran for the past five,whatever it is, years.
I'm just gonna vote for him.
If I'm John Doe, do I have tospeak on anything different?
Do I have to change minds, or Ijust have to keep the current
people, supporters I currentlyhave?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Yeah, you have to keep the supporters, remind
people about the future, remindpeople of what you've done, of
what you have done for them.
Um, you know, there's almost a90% chance that someone gets
re-elected, the way districtsare drawn and stuff like that.
So it's it's so it's itre-election is is it's very hard
(09:16):
to go to the end's incumbent.
They have fundraisingadvantages, it's all types of
things.
Um, that's why you generally seethe same elected officials
always.
Usually about 10% of the racesare competitive.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
Only 10% are competitive.
So if if I'm I'm I'm Jane Doegoing against John Doe, I have a
way more up with battle becauseJohn Doe has been in it for five
plus years.
How can I break that if I'm thatperson?
And though the perspective Iwant us to keep is talking to
(09:51):
people, regardless of whereverthey land and having that
conversation.
If I'm trying to haveconversation with people who
maybe disagree, maybe agree, butthis person has ran for X amount
of years.
Do I really have a chance?
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
You you do, it's not a great chance, but you do.
That's why I said there's abouta 90% re-elect rate.
But you know, it depends on theelection, depends if people want
change, a little luck isinvolved.
Uh, depends who the candidateis, uh, depends how you can
fundraise, how your grassrootsis.
(10:27):
Um, so there's so many factorsthat that matter.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Interesting.
So, what changes people'sopinion over time then?
Like maybe we do need a change,or maybe it's a day-to-day
event, or how does that happen?
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
I I find you have to keep keep hitting that same
message of change.
SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Well, you you know, you have to keep hitting the
same message to people that youwant change, and I'm the change
candidate, and I'm a changecandidate because of this, and
you know, Bill Jones is thereason we need term limits
because he's been there so long,and and and all of and you know,
all that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
I would definitely agree with that part.
Um I'm very curious now withwhat you've said and what you've
seen.
I've already learned stuff,we're not that far into it.
Uh with how do you think Kyletalks?
The podcast is a gold audience.
(11:31):
We care about crossing thedivide.
Understanding maybe this personhas a point I disagree with, and
maybe I might think they'revile.
Um, maybe I don't like theirpoint of opinion, and that makes
me not like the person.
How does that translate topolling?
Like, I don't not sure if I'marticulating what I my question
(11:55):
here, but it's like, yeah, goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
Um, I think you'll answer, you know, there's
there's generally scales on howhow much you dislike an issue or
how how strongly you oppose anissue.
So if you vehemently dislikesomething, you you'll rate
something higher.
You know what I'm saying?
So you'll be more likely tostrongly oppose than somewhat
(12:17):
oppose something or somebody.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
So then what changes people's if if that's the idea
and you've seen it, you're theexpert, I trust you.
Um, I don't know, obviously.
I think that's clear.
How do you, if someone stronglydisagree on whatever the issue
is, you can pick, how do they gofrom strongly disagree to
(12:41):
disagree to neutral to wait aminute, I think I actually
agree.
Is that from social media andpersonalities, or is that more
from political candidates?
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
It's very hard.
I mean, think of it like thisgetting someone to buy a Samsung
instead of if they're an Appleuser, you know, switching them
from using iPhone to Android, orvice versa.
People are generally um set setin it set in their ways.
So, like in a presidentialelection, cross you might have a
guy that voted for, let's say,Biden, and then a very, very
(13:18):
small percentage voted for Trumpthis time, but they changed
over.
You know, really it's aboutturnout and turning your people
out and getting your groups ofpeople to turn out for someone
like Trump, it's getting peoplein rural America to turn out.
If for someone like uh Biden orHarris who ran last time, it's
getting you know people in thecities to turn out.
(13:40):
So at higher levels, let's saythan they turned out last time.
SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
Interesting.
So then if I'm following and I'munderstanding what you're saying
correctly, they get their mainsupporter base using the last
president of the duck, forexample, um, rural cities.
You I feel like you definitelyhave information of where you're
most liked, especially if you'regoing for a president.
With that in mind, then you tryto rally your base, whatever
(14:07):
that may look like for each.
And then it sounds like what canchange minds there is people.
Maybe, maybe the candidate forsure, and maybe I could be
wrong, and you can correct me,but it sounds like the candidate
can, sure, but it sounds likethe people reiterating what the
(14:28):
candidate is saying.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Uh yeah, I think that's the that's the that's the
key thing, you know, and keepyou know, you keep you you hone
in on two or three things andyou keep repeating it and
repeating it and repeating it,and it's issues that get in, you
know, that that that that getinto people's minds, and and and
you know, and it's it could becultural issues, it could be
(14:51):
financial issues, uh, you know,economic issues, kitchen table
issues, so those things, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Okay, so the link here sounds like it's people
ultimately when it I mean, ofcourse there's other outside
forces, but it sounds likepeople change people's mind on
whatever that may be.
Okay.
How do you I'm not there's ahard hitter, how do you get
(15:19):
around those?
If someone's like full stonewallbricked, I will not move, is
that a good place to be, in youropinion, as an individual?
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
I think it's about 30% uh of the population, 35% of
the population that's you know,will not move, and then it gets
somewhat moved, you know, it'sanother fifth 15, 20, 15, 20.
I think it's about five to sevenpeople that you can really swing
(15:56):
out of like a state or in likewhat's the the country.
Wow, five to seven people.
Okay, five to seven percent,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Wow.
How and I know you've talkedabout it more, about I want to
stay on this train of thought.
How do you I know we talkedabout people, message, hitting
the same message, being resoluteso people can like and it's a
person, it's like it's justcrazy to me because like they
you know, we all get sick, weall have to use the restroom,
(16:29):
etc.
But people like to look at thesepeople, especially in the
political scene, and say this iswhat they stand for, almost like
a god in some senses, and theyfollow that.
Question staying on this thoughtis changing how to win people
over.
What does that look like?
(16:50):
I know we discussed people, orif you can kind of draw that out
a bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
You gotta try to influence people.
It doesn't always have to be inpositive messages, but you you
have to try to influence peopleon what they what they care
about, and you can you canchange minds.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
What do you mean by it doesn't always have to be
positive messages?
Like what is positive?
What does that look like?
What's the option?
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
You see campaigns that might have negative
messaging.
You see some, you know, you seepositive messages, but you also
see negative messaging.
Um negative messaging does acouple of things.
One, it it it it rallies yourown supporters, two, it kind of
keep so it might not turn peopleover for you, but it might keep
(17:38):
them on the sidelines.
Um doesn't always work, butsometimes it does.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
Okay.
Okay.
It's hard to think what we'retrying to break through.
Uh we need to talk to peopleagain.
Um, and and I'm younger, I sayon the podcast I'm 28.
I'm there's still things I don'tknow, but I think people are
(18:06):
tired of um outrage your XYZbased on these beliefs that I
may or agree or disagree,probably disagree, so I'm gonna
label you these things.
Is that helpful in the pollingworld?
Like, is that oh, these guys area slam dunk, I can get them
(18:27):
easily, or is it like stressful?
Like, oh, I don't know how I'mgonna get these guys, like
they're are they just writtenoff, you can't.
SPEAKER_01 (18:35):
Well, polling, we just provide results, and then
the candidate does what theywant to do with it, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
They read the results, and then they go, Okay,
well, that these are the issues,these are the results, these are
I'm gonna I'm gonna listen orI'm not gonna listen, you know.
I mean the scientific methods,and you give them the and you
give them the results, and thenthe candidate decides, okay, am
I gonna have positive messages,negative messages?
Am I gonna try to run to themiddle, or am I gonna have a
(19:01):
base election and focus on mybase and turning out more people
in my base?
That's why you see Trump soartful in in politics, he's able
to turn out his base more andmore people each year.
He's on the each time he's onthe ballot because he's able to
he focuses on issues that hisbase cares about.
(19:22):
Um Bill Clinton was so artfulbecause he was able to turn out
people in the middle, um,because he he focused on the the
middle ground.
So it just depends on the personand the year we're in and where
the country is, and just so manyfactors.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
From what you see, and I know there's a lot of
factors.
Does like you're saying with thebass stuff, bass rallies, trying
to?
I mean, say whatever whateverpeople are listening to this,
whatever you feel about Trump,he obviously knows how to get it
like the rallies, the song, thelittle dance thing, the meme
thing.
So it's like it's clear.
Regardless of how you feel abouthim, he knows how to work his
(20:03):
base, his base supporters.
Is that beneficial?
Like, how can because you haveto win other people the middle,
right?
Or do you only have to win yourbase as a candidate?
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
I mean, there's a couple of ways to go about it,
but yes, if you just win yourbase, and right now it's kind of
a 50-50 country, you know,meaning what?
It's 50% one side, 50% the otherside.
So it's a very, it's a veryclose, it's a very close
electorate.
So the key is just turning outpeople that that that agree with
(20:38):
you.
Um Trump won 51% of the Trumpwon by 1% of the vote last time.
So, you know, it was not alandslide victory or anything
like that.
He won by a lot more inelectoral college.
That's a whole anotherconversation.
Um, but but you know, so it, youknow, it's it's it's it's it's
(21:00):
it's different candidates dodifferent things, you know.
Uh you look at George Bush, thehis first his first campaign, he
tried to bring people in.
Then the second campaign, heran, he focused on his cultural
issues and focused on his base,and he won re-election.
So that's kind of how it's done.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Yeah.
So then how do we?
I know we've talked aboutpolitics a lot, those people,
but the main message, it'sunfortunate a lot of this
conversation stuff's aroundpolitics.
I feel like it wasn't alwayslike that.
I feel like, or maybe it was,but as I got older, it feels
like that's been more one of myquestions for you that I'm
(21:40):
asking of everyone has becausewe're discussing politics.
Has politics always been this sodivisive?
Or if I in your opinion,whatever that is, what you've
seen personally, like did itramp up in like 2016, or has it
always been like that?
And I just as a kid, I neverpaid attention.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
I think it's always been extremely divisive.
I mean, you go back to JohnAdams and Thomas Jefferson.
Um, I think social media hasamplified it, yeah.
So it's kind of in your facemore, but it's always been
extremely divisive, and it'sit's it's it's it's always has
been.
You know, there's only certainthere's only been 44, 45
(22:24):
presidents, so there's there'sthere's um there's a lot of
competition for it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
And this comes down to lower levels too, like uh I
know Congress is big, but forlike local government, is that
same mentality kind of persistor is it a little different?
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Yeah, people find it out on a local level.
You'd be you'd you'd besurprised.
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
I feel like there's stories there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Yeah, and you know, people they know each other,
they live in a neighborhood, sothey see each other outside in
public, and it's just such very,very interesting.
Local politics a little bit morepersonal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Okay, so okay, I'm just digesting.
Um, so seeing that it's alwaysbeen like this, what's the
divide?
Like, and you're what you'veseen just personally in your
work, how do we cross thatdivide?
(23:23):
Like, hey, I disagree on this,you are super for it, whatever
that is, or vice versa.
How do you make that connectionwithout being like, because
today, oh, you believe this?
You're a bigot, I hate you,you're annoying.
And I don't think that'sproductive, like in the
slightest.
You can have those feelings, butI don't think that's productive.
(23:45):
How can I reach across based onyour experience and have a
conversation with someone thatmay be opposed to whatever I
agree or disagree with?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
I think you can have a conversation with most people.
You you'd you'd be surprised.
Um, the hardliners on bothparties are are just a
percentage of people.
It's not a 50 percentage, it's acertain percentage of people who
are just 100% set in their ways.
They don't want to talk to you.
But I think most people are,most Americans are reasonable
(24:17):
one way or the other.
And then it comes down, it justcomes down to other issues,
socioeconomical, it comes downto you know, education, so many
different things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:27):
Okay.
So it sounds like then socialmedia has made it, like you said
earlier, made it kind of put itmore in your face to make it
seem more divisive orcontroversial than it is.
Because if you talk to someoneon the street, it sounds like
they'd be cool, but on socialmedia it's not that way, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
Right.
I mean, it's social media hasjust amplified it, and it's you
know, everyone, everyone isthere.
Used to be three um mediacompanies.
Now everyone is a journalist,right?
Yeah, can have a podcast orwhatever, yeah.
And and it's just so so so muchin your face now, and um people
see it.
I think people have a much moreof a uh I don't know if they
(25:11):
have more knowledge, but more ofan interest in it now.
Um, and people are much moreinvested in it in politics right
now.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
I saw this video.
Um, all this lines up perfectlyto what we're talking about,
where it was, I don't it was along time ago, but it was this
video.
This guy, um, it was allanimated, he was like watching
stuff, scrolling YouTube, and itwas for some fake idea for the
video, but it like changed hismind and changed the mind and
(25:42):
changed his mind.
Of course, it's all over socialmedia, and then he was, I think
the word is radicalized, likewhat by this fake idea on this
video, and then he went to go dopretty unfortunate things.
But my curious, uh that video,even as I think I saw as a
teenager in high school, and Iwas like, wow, that is fast
(26:04):
forward 10 plus years.
Here we are still the same.
I think that video is very muchtrue.
Do you think that's reality?
Like, is that a real case thingfor most people?
They get indoctrinated bywhatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Definitely a percentage of the population
does for sure.
Um, they get radicalized, and Idon't think that's a high
percentage, but I think it'senough to cause problems.
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
What do you mean by enough to cause like for
individuals, for candidates?
Let's assume they don't doanything weird.
SPEAKER_01 (26:38):
Individual people, yeah, where where people go down
rabbit holes and all that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
Do you so just your opinion?
Do you think that's helpful forpeople?
Do you think that is good forpeople?
Like, do you think whereverwhatever side doesn't matter?
SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
I don't know.
I mean, I don't want to tellpeople what to how to live their
life.
I think for me, I try to getinformation from all different
sources, yeah, you know, left,right, center, so I can kind of
judge it for myself.
Because I don't I don't thinkthe media really tells the truth
per se.
Yeah, um, so or they have anagenda.
Um, so I think you know, if ifif you invest your time in all
(27:24):
sides and reading it, you canmake your own decisions.
SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
I would agree.
And what's crazy about that,Doug, is a lot of people will
hear that.
Um, I know I face backlash forhaving these ideas.
Um, it's unfortunate because Iam not a political commentator,
but I do value conversation.
I want people to talk to youwherever you land, it's up to
you, it's your prerogative.
(27:51):
But we have to talk to eachother more.
And if and just to agree withyou, I do think social media
has, especially in commentsections and emails.
I've seen it, or it's like, oh,you don't degree agree or
disagree.
I'm gonna call I've been calledthe worst names in the book, so
(28:11):
it's like how that divide needsto change.
I don't know, maybe maybe I'mignorant and bit a bit naive.
Your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
No, I think you're 100% right.
There's so much venomous uh outthere, you know, keyboard
warriors that are out there thatsay what they want.
They would never have an ad,they would never have a forum
before social media to say someof these things, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
I heard that too.
This is we what is that here?
The platform.
Now they have a platform,regardless of how many people
follow or etc., they have aplatform now, and they can push
out this rhetoric, whatever thatmay be.
Um, they can have that now.
And since there's no face, it'slike I can say that I can, it's
(28:59):
easier to dehumanize you.
That's what it feels like.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
I think so.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
That so I know we're coming at time, and I'm gonna be
respectful um of your time.
Um, we do thank you so much,Doug, by the way.
Thank you.
Um, I do this thing, I it'scontinuing the conversation.
I like to ask every guest yourthoughts on, then you would give
me your thoughts on whateverthat is, and then you give me a
(29:28):
prompt for the next guest.
So they'll answer.
You get to start it.
Um, so Doug, can you give meyour thoughts on people?
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
I think that um that people are very complicated, but
in in the end, we all you knowbleed red, right?
Yeah, and I think you know, mostof us get get along, you know.
And um, I think my prompt forthis for the next guest would be
how do you change people?
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
I like that.
It's like you're reading mymind.
I like that.
Your thoughts on changingpeople, I like that.
Well, Doug, thank you for beingon Royal Talks.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:12):
It's a great segment, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (30:15):
And everyone, that is our conversation with Doug.
I really hope you learned a lot.
Um, yeah, I had a great timewith Doug.
Um, as we said, this wassupposed to be in person, so I'm
sorry I forgot.
I guess I didn't have a record,even though I thought I did, but
I still hope you got somethingout of value of this
conversation.
Let me tell you what I gotquickly.
(30:36):
Talking to people matters.
We learned that it's a mix ofboth.
Evidence, here's why I'm right,but how you say it, how you
break it to them, how youpresent it is almost more
important than the evidenceitself, which was really
interesting.
Um, and I really got a lot.
And that's something I think Ican think about a lot um in this
episode in life.
When I go and I speak to peoplewho I agree with, who I don't
(30:58):
agree with, who are indifferent.
There's lots to learn here.
And I hope you got something ofvalue too.
Thank you for the thank you forjoining us today.
Thank you for being in theconversation with Doug.
Um, again, if you want to knowmore about Doug's work, maybe
you want to have him run apolitical campaign.
I hear he's the guy for it.
Um, you can check out his linksin the show notes down below.
But guys, the podcast isgrowing.
(31:19):
Thank you guys so much.
I mean, we are on top charts forlike personal and finance.
We're we're trailblazing.
That's because people want tohave conversations again.
And this conversation with Doug,I think was just the start.
Just the start of who we'll getto talk to and what it means for
us going forward.
If you would like to help us inthat endeavor, please go ahead
(31:42):
and leave a review.
Um, wherever you're listening tothis podcast, like it.
Share this episode out withsomebody somewhere on um
Instagram, TikTok, X, whereveryou're at, Kyle the Horton.
Um, I would love it if you guysdid.
Thank you guys so much.
Let's keep having betterconversations.
Let's talk to each other andlet's be the change.
We're starting right here, rightnow.
(32:04):
And there's already a lot of youwho say, Yeah, I'm here for it.
So let's keep going.
Help us spread the mission, helpus keep going.
And if no one has told you thisyet, one person died for you
because he could not imagineeternal life without you.
And that man's name is JesusChrist.
I'll see you guys next time onCloud Talks.
Hope you enjoy.
Peace.
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