September 3, 2024 • 49 mins
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Ep #71 - Dive into the insidious nature of diet culture with Dra. Hortencia Jimenéz, a sociologist, professor, author, and health coach. She highlights the interconnectedness of diet culture with systemic oppression (calling it a spider web) and the importance of dismantling toxic cultural norms.
So how do we, like little flies, free ourselves from the web and avoid being devoured? Dra. Jimenéz paves the path to freedom for us, starting with returning to our ancestral ties severed by colonization and white supremacy and leading with compassion for yourself.
Key Takeaways:
- Understanding how diet culture is rooted in systemic oppression, and its impact on marginalized communities is crucial
- Recognizing and appreciating the diverse cultural foods is essential for promoting true wellness
- How to set boundaries and addressing food and body shaming within our own families
To get the full show notes, and an episode transcript, go to PauletteErato.com/shownotes. This is episode 71.
About Dr. Jimenéz:
Dr. Hortencia Jimenéz is a queer Mexicana inmigrante of Wixárika ancestry. She was born in the Sierra Madre in Nayarit, Mexico, and immigrated to the United States as a child. She holds a B.A., MA, and Ph.D in Sociology and is also a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor. Dr. Jimenéz is a Sociology professor and the author of the book Challenging Inequalities: Readings in Race, Ethnicity, and Immigration and co-author of Latinx Experiences: Interdisciplinary Perspectives by SAGE Publishing. Her research writing has appeared in academic publications and has numerous awards and recognitions for her work in the Latinx community.
She has been featured in Theluzmedia, Belatina News, Hip Latina, Poderositas, Hispanic Kitchen, CanvasRebel Magazine, and most recently in L.A. Weekly. Radio stations and numerous podcasts throughout the United States have also interviewed her. She is currently a co-host for the radio Joya 1570AM “Comunidad En Contexo.” Dr. Jimenéz hosts a podcast called Dismantling Diet Culture: F*ck Being Calladita. Her work centers on dismantling diet culture from a social and racial justice framework and helping Latinxs heal their relationship with food and body image.
Follow her on Instagram and Threads. And check out her free resource, Strategies For Disrupting Food and Body Shaming.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Buen día mi gente, and welcometo La Vida Más Chévere de
Childfree Latinas, the onlySpanglish podcast for Childfree
Latinas y Latines helping usliberate ourselves from the
toxic cultural brainwashing weall grew up with so that we can
design our best lives instead.
I'm your host andresident Childfree
(00:22):
Latina, Paulette Erato.
Today's episode is going tobe one of the most powerful
ones you've ever heard here.
Everything I talk abouton this program, my very
mission for La Vida MasChevere, this is the episode
that ties it all together.
I'm so excited for our guestsociologist, Doctora Hortencia
(00:43):
Jimenez, whose own show alsodiscusses these very topics.
Through this discussion, werefer to or touch on at least
nine or ten other toxic culturalnorms I've already covered
over the life of this show.
From voting, to self sabotage,to shrinking yourself to fit
into someone else's idea of you.
In this specific case, we'rereviewing society's ideals
(01:05):
around diet culture, andhow one, they're fucked
up, we already know that.
But also, how all of thistoxicity I've already
mentioned is interconnected,like a spider web.
While our focus is goingto be on how insidious diet
culture is, and how it showsup in different areas of our
life, from demonizing of ourcultural food, to calling
(01:27):
each other gordo y flaca, Ihope that what you're able
to take away from this ishow it's all linked together.
As the professor breaks it alldown, you'll hear echoes of my
chats with Ana del Castillo,who spoke about cutting off
pieces of yourselves to fit in.
And also Professor Asultany,who literally wrote the book on
the harm caused by media bias.
(01:48):
And while we're not solving anyproblems here today, this is
a very eye opening interview.
And as Doctora Jimenezwill tell us, the first
step towards dismantlingany systemic oppression
starts with the individual.
So what we're doing todayis we're giving you the
awareness, like I try todo in every episode, so you
can start the process ofunlearning in your own life.
(02:11):
That's what this podcastis all about, making you
aware of each of these toxiccultural traditions and ways
of thinking and systems thatwe simply accept as normal,
even though we shouldn't.
And once you see it,you can't unsee it.
When you're uncomfortableenough, then you'll
make a change.
So at the same time,it's about getting out
(02:32):
of your comfort zone.
Fun, right?
In our desire to assimilate,we've become so far removed
from our ancestral and culturalwealth and knowledge that
we're in danger of beingdevoured by the system.
And that's a difficultbalance, right?
Acculturating or code switchingso we fit in, but at the
same time not letting goof what makes us stand out.
(02:55):
That's a lot.
We understand.
That doesn't meanwe shouldn't do it.
Before we start, let me tell youa little bit about our guest.
Dr.
Hortencia Jimenez is aqueer Mexicana inmigrante
of Wixárika ancestry.
She was born in SierraMadre in Nayarit, Mexico,
and immigrated to the U.
S.
as a child.
She holds a B.
(03:15):
A., an M.
A., and a Ph.
D.
in sociology and is alsoa certified intuitive
eating counselor.
Dr.
Jimenez is a sociologyprofessor and the author
of the book, ChallengingInequalities, Readings in Race,
Ethnicity, and Immigration.
And co author of LatinxExperiences, Interdisciplinary
Perspectives by Sage Publishing.
Her research has appearedin academic publications
(03:37):
and has numerous awards andrecognitions for her work
in the Latinx community.
As it should be.
She has been featured in TheLuz Media, Be Latina News, Hip
Latina, Poderositas, HispanicKitchen, Canvas Rebel Magazine,
and most recently, in LA Weekly.
Radio stations and numerouspodcasts throughout the U.
(03:57):
S.
have also interviewed her.
She is currently a co hostfor the Radio Joya 1570
AM, Comunidad en Contexo.
Dr.
Jiménez also hosts a podcastcalled Dismantling Diet
Culture, Fuck Being Calladita.
Her work centers ondismantling diet culture
from a social and racialjustice framework, and helps
Latinxs heal the relationshipwith food and body image.
(04:20):
And she's going to tell usexactly how we can do all that.
By the way, we spoke a lotof Spanglish in this episode.
If you need a translatedversion, get on the Substack
newsletter, which will havethat translated version
available later this week.
Now, let's go talkto the professor.
I am talking to the oneand only Doctora Hortencia
Jimenez today, and I cannottell y'all how excited I am.
(04:43):
So, Doctora Jimenez, porfavor, tell us, what is
diet culture and why do wehave to be so aware of this?
Thank you so much for invitingme on your podcast to be
part of your community.
I am very passionate aboutdismantling diet culture and
not being silenced, right?
(05:03):
Not being calladita.
As a sociologist, as a trainedsociologist, professor, an
author and researcher, aswell as a health coach, the
way that I conceptualize dietculture is as an industry
that is rooted in systems ofoppression in our society.
And I invite folks tothink about a spider web.
(05:23):
A spider web has a lot ofinterrelated threads, right?
And so when I think aboutthe diet culture industry.
It's like a macro, like a hugeindustry, but it's made up of
different institutions suchas the family, the government,
religion, the healthcaresystem, the fashion industry,
the beauty industry, the media.
So all these institutionsenforce belief systems and
(05:47):
values that oftentimes make usfeel, and we are also oppressed.
So I say for me that dietculture is a system of
oppression rooted in patriarchy,rooted in cis heteronormativity
that perpetuates a lot ofthe -isms in our society.
And specifically, peoplethink about diet culture
as doing dieting.
(06:08):
That's just, forme, one component.
I see it very morebroad and holistic.
It's more than just trying toconform to these Western ideals
of body image, of thinness,of middle class, cisgender,
which leaves out a wholediverse population, right?
(06:28):
And so that's how Iconceptualized diet culture.
So, the systems of oppressionyou mentioned, patriarchy,
there's also all of itsbrothers, the misogyny,
that it's just inherent.
Fatphobia.
We can go on and on, right?
What I love about your podcastspecifically is your tagline
is, fuck being calladita.
(06:48):
And that's so importantbecause that is yet another
system of oppression, takingaway people's voice, taking
away their power to speak.
So when people talk aboutstepping into their power,
what they're saying is they'refinding their voice and they're
giving themselves permission,liberating themselves from
not being able to speak up.
(07:09):
And you provide that platform.
And I'm so excited.
Oh, I feel like cryingjust hearing you say that.
When you hear someonesaying that, it's powerful.
It's so powerful, right?
And it's so liberating whenwe're able to tap and honor
and embrace our voices andspeak up when we have been
(07:30):
conditioned and socializedall our life not to, right?
And not take space.
So thank you for thatvalidation and affirmation and
really what it is, it's, itshouldn't be radical, right?
But for many of ourfamilies, it's like they
remain silent and they want,they want us to continue
to follow the status quo.
And not, not make noise, notcause trouble, no ser unas
(07:52):
rebeldes, or the differentlabels that our family
uses to try to silence andput us in, quote, place.
Putting a woman in her placehas long been a sport for as
long as men have been in power.
And women, when they getthemselves into power, it's
that like proximity to power,proximity to whiteness.
They tend to also thentry to silence women
(08:15):
behind them, don't they?
Absolutely.
Yes.
And you brought up, right,like, yes, the systems of
oppression, like misogynyand there's homophobia.
And for folks who perhaps don'tknow and need a little bit of
refresher, the way that I talkabout systems of oppression,
I want folks to think about itfrom a systematic macro lens.
(08:37):
And what I mean bythat institutional and
systematic, it's that it'sembedded in the social
institutions of our society.
The systems of oppressionhave been at the foundation
of the birth of thisnation, that's how rooted
systems of oppression are.
And it's systematic, it's,we're talking about not decades,
but centuries of mistreatment,of exploitation, of abuse,
(09:01):
of people of color, of BIPOCfolks in the United States.
And that's one part, right,at the systemic macro level,
which translates at theindividual interpersonal
level, how we internalize alot of these belief systems
that as an Indigenous woman,they were not ours, that I
was part of the colonizer.
(09:21):
So we have colonized ideas thatif we don't unlearn them, we're
creating harm at the individualand interpersonal level.
So how do we do that?
Institutions and individualscan perpetrate sexism,
can perpetrate ableism,classism, ageism,
antisemitism, nativism, right?
And we can keep going.
(09:42):
So when I talk aboutsystems of oppression,
that's what I refer to.
So the decolonizing aspectof diet culture is removing
those Western ideals, right?
Yes, yes, yes, it'sunlearning them, and I think
sometimes it's hard, right?
We can't unlearn and dismantlesomething if we're not aware.
(10:04):
That's the first step.
People have questionedme and challenged me,
which I welcome all that.
Always when it comes from aplace of intention, right?
Right.
And they're like, well, wereally can dismantle diet
culture because it's this, it'sa system, it's an industry.
I'm like, yes, we can.
I'm a sociologist.
It all begins at theindividual level.
It all begins with you.
(10:24):
It starts with you.
So yes, I sometimes feel like,am I making a difference?
Estoy poniendo migranito de arena, because
sometimes it feels so big.
But then I think itstarts with one person.
It's talking to your family,talking to the woman in your
life, to the men in your life,to the people in your life.
And the ideas and valuesthat you have internalized
(10:46):
for generations that werepassed on from like three
or four generations,they don't belong to us.
And if we continue to hold onto some of these oppressive
ideas and values, Sometimeswe lose ourself, we lose our
sense of authenticity, oursense of identity for trying
to conform to society andlo que quiere la familia.
(11:06):
And that's why Ilike your podcast.
It's like, you are dismantlingdiet culture because you're
like, fuck, like, I don'twant to have children.
And there's so muchshame that the family
makes you feel guilty.
Just because we're born with thevagina doesn't mean that, like,
you're supposed to be a mother.
Hello.
But again, these are ingrainedideas passed on from one
generation to another.
(11:27):
So the work that you aredoing is dismantling diet
culture because una mujerno tiene que ser madre nomás
porque es una mujer, right?
Son ideas que se hanpasado de la religión.
Plays a big role.
So see how we'relinking the family as an
institution and religion.
And so these play a big role.
So, I think that that'swhy I like the way that I
(11:49):
conceptualize diet culturebecause it's very broad and very
holistic, they're interrelated.
We can't just say that it'sjust dieting, it's food.
No, as people of color, ofcommunities of color in the
United States, it's all thesesystems and how they work
together to, to marginalize us.
As we've learned, sometimesit takes you being brave
(12:11):
to stake your claim and bedifferent, to not conform to
what the family, what society,la iglesia, religion, all of
these things are telling us.
And we feel like we're the oneswho are wrong, whether it's that
we aren't having kids or thatwe aren't a size double zero.
(12:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's been a shifttoo, because I remember in
the nineties, for example,most of the people you saw
on TV were not super skinny.
They weren't little, little,they were like the size
six was the ideal, right?
And size six is still small,but it's not size two.
It's not size zero.
(12:55):
Que pasó?
What do you think has happenedin the last 30 years that we
just want women to be smallerand smaller and smaller?
Hmm.
Ooh, there's so much to unpack.
We're talking aboutsocial constructs and
social construction ofthe ideal body type.
The idea that the sizeis going to determine
your worth, and beauty.
(13:18):
And ultimately it doestranslate for some folks
to access to resources andopportunities and that for
some can translate into power.
That's one thing, right?
The social construction ofsize, because who gets to
decide that this is the size?
What are the institutions?
The media is an institution.
(13:38):
Also, the fashionindustry plays a big role.
People can demand, that'swhy now we see that
shift in health of everysize and body diversity.
There's slowly a shift,very slow shift, where we
can see more clothes forwomen in bigger bodies.
But that was not thecase in the past.
Again, so we're talking aboutthe social construction of
(14:01):
size and clothes and whohas the power, like who
sets these trends, right?
People in positions of power,and oftentimes it's white,
cisgender women who are instraight sized bodies and
heterosexual men, middleclass, upper class white men.
Or if it's women of color, tendto be also thin women as well.
(14:24):
But, como dicen, ya basta no?
Like, people are, they'refucking fed up that there's
a lack of representation.
And people are fucking dying.
They're starving themselvesto fit into size zero.
When they have a beautifulblueprint that's different and
we're unique, but we've beenconditioned to think that this
is what we need to aim for.
(14:44):
And the more time that you spendtrying to conform and literally
physically shrink by losingweight, we're not taking space.
So we think about it physically,but metaphorically too.
You're spending your time, yourresources to shrink when you can
spend your time and resourcesto feel empowered, to be brave
(15:05):
and strong and be outspokenand take space and take these
positions of leadership.
So I generally do think thatdiet culture flourishes by women
shrinking, and not just women,straight, cisgender women, but
folks in the LGBTQ community.
If you're spending so muchtime doing that, you're
(15:26):
depleted energetically.
How are you going to dothe fight for liberation?
How are you going toadvocate for others?
You don't, you, you loseyourself in that sense..
So yes, you're shrinking for,for someone, but also you
can be doing other importantthings in, in the community.
But we've been gaslightedthat we don't have power,
(15:48):
that what we do doesn'tcreate social change.
And that's not true.
Especially in an election year,so many people are disillusioned
and cynical because theydon't think their vote counts.
And now more than ever, it does.
Maybe not on the federal level.
Maybe when we're votingfor president and that's
(16:08):
all we think is important.
So, the media runswith that, right?
They give full coverageto just the presidential
election, and if you've alreadyopted out because you don't
think your vote matters, itdismisses all of the work
that happens down ballot.
Yeah, that's right.
And the, and the local, right?
The local work that you canbe doing at the city and
(16:30):
at the county level, right?
And state.
Those are huge.
Those are, and those arehuge, especially when those
margins are smaller towns,smaller municipalities,
the state, those things canbe decided with your vote.
So that's really importantat the local level.
And voting is one way tomake your voice heard, and
start dismantling thesesystemic institutions.
(16:53):
Because you're right.
Change happens slowly, butit happens with you first.
And then it starts ripplingout as we get more confident
to continue making that change.
As you were talking, Iwas realizing some of
the, some of that systemicshit in my own life.
I gained a lot ofweight post COVID.
And when we moved to PuertoRico, I lost a chunk of it.
(17:16):
But I lost a chunkof it by being sick.
And I don't know what washappening with my body.
We never figured it out, butI lost 10 pounds and I knew
that wasn't sustainable.
But I was so happy losta quarter of the weight
and that is fucked.
up.
Yeah.
That is so unhealthy.
My God.
I thank you for sharing that.
(17:37):
And that's for everyone.
One of the things that Idon't like about social
media, even in the undietingspaces, there's no shame
if you want to lose weight.
We're here to hold that spacefor that, these contradictions
and the messiness of like,but wait, but I want to
hold on to this idea.
Because there's perksor it gives me access.
(17:57):
Especially if there's trauma,if there's childhood adverse
experiences and you'vebeen conditioned to be a
people pleaser and there'sso much to unpack, right?
So many nuances.
So I also just want toinvite folks to hold space
for these contradictions andsometimes it just doesn't
have to make fucking sense.
Like just sit with it and, andbe compassionate with yourself.
(18:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just, that just feltlike something left my body just
now and what I'm hoping is theshame that I'm hanging on to.
Yeah, let it go.
Because, yeah, it needs,it needs to come out.
And so thank you for helpingme walk through that.
(18:40):
So, we talked about the systemsthat are in place, we've
talked about how everything'sinterconnected, there's a
spider web, and at the centerof it is these institutions
that have made this systemic,that's the spider web,
that's the system we live in.
How can I, as a littlefly, trapped in the
spiderweb, not get devoured?
(19:03):
How does the individualfind themselves and
save themselves, really?
As a woman of indigenousancestry and being proud of
being from the Sierra Madrein the state of Nayarit,
which is very high in themountains, very, very, very,
very, very, very rural.
Where they live off theland and you're away
(19:24):
really from the capital.
Like it's very remote.
And I say this because I trulybelieve, and that's why we've
been, and I get emotional, we'vebeen gaslighted by diet culture
and systems of oppression thatwe need to conform to society.
That we quote,need to assimilate.
Which is, that's not true.
(19:45):
Now we do acculturate, but inthe process of acculturating
and for some folks to completelyleave their heritage, their
foods, their custom, thatis what diet culture wants.
When we disconnect culturallyand ancestrally, we are
giving our power away.
And so I share this becauselike one, where I'm coming
(20:08):
from, and then as an indigenouswoman, and then my academic
training, all this hashelped me in my own healing.
And so while we, yeah, we canbe the mosquita, be really
small, maybe feel that we'regoing to be devoured, I am
calling folks to tap into theirancestry, to tap into their
(20:30):
ancestral wealth and knowledge.
We have that.
It's in our DNA.
We carry it right nowin our bodies, but we've
been disconnected becauseof colonialism, because
of the violence that ourancestors had to survive.
But we have thatpower and that agency.
Yeah, you might not knowwho your grandparents are,
(20:50):
great grandparents, butcan you do some research?
Can you find outmore information?
Can you learn more aboutyour cultural ancestor
practices, your foods?
And it's the indigenous revival,right, a cultural revival.
You can do that, connectto the land, to Mother
Earth, religious, if youwant, or spiritually.
(21:10):
For me, that has been part ofthe healing and has honestly,
and that's feeling vulnerabletoo, it has been my superpower.
I don't want to sharethis often with folks.
My indigeneity, likere indigenizing journey
has saved my life comingout as a queer woman.
Tapping into that andconnecting to my ancestors
(21:33):
and their wisdom and themessages that they have for
me, give me a deeper meaning.
Y no me importa lo que digala gente, lo que los demas van
a decir, porque if you havea strong conviction and you
have a mission and a visionthat is beyond an ego, and
that it's a deep calling,ancestral calling, and community
(21:56):
that is community oriented,you're fucking powerful.
But I didn't get herelike de un dia para
otro, it's been 20 years.
Right?
It's been 20 years and it's beenlike, honestly, the last seven
years have been so painful.
I bet.
So I stand here today strongand I feel like fierce.
I have my days where Ifeel like I'm so fierce and
(22:16):
there's days where I feelso vulnerable and so scared.
But then I go to my altar, I goand connect with my ancestors,
I play my drum, I play myfruit, I burn some sage, I
have my herbs in my garden,my mom believes strongly in,
ay, como se llama esta yerba?
Eh, it's, it's very stinky.
Anyway, I have it in mygarden, y me hago una limpia.
And so I do ancestor practices.
(22:38):
We've been gaslightedby white supremacy, que,
what the fuck is that?
You're not supposed to, esono funciona, eso es cosa
del diablo dice la religión.
But honestly, and when we'reable to tap into that, I think
we are grounded and have adeeper sense of our identities.
And that's how I, that's howwe are able to do this work.
(22:58):
Because when you see it,you're like, how am I going
to get out of this spiderweb?
Porque no vas acer tu.
It's not just one person.
That's part of individualismand rooted in white supremacy.
I don't do it by myself.
You're not doing thiswork on your own.
We have community and communitylooks very different for folks.
We belong todifferent communities.
So you're doing your ownindividual healing work and
(23:20):
dismantling of internalizednarratives, and you're also
doing that in community.
You're doing it with thesupport system or you find
that support system and thenthat's how we're able to
create that change in ourcommunities like physically in
our communities and our familiesis that like people may think
oh that sounds really nice.
Well, I've been doing the work.
(23:41):
I have been doing the work.
This is possible.
It's hard work.
That's why folks don't,folks don't want to do it.
But social change begins atthe individual level and it's
collective and then systematic.
I had a previous guestand we were talking about
burnout, which again, is oneof those colonized mindsets.
And she was talking about howpeople stay in familiar pain
(24:04):
because it's comfortable.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, and it's, it'scomfortable and you,
you're familiar with it.
You're like, how can feelingshitty be comfortable, right?
It is the fact that thatfeeling, and when we're able
to catch ourselves, porqueI go back and then I say to
myself, Hortencia, are youself sabotaging yourself?
(24:25):
Are you feeling shittybecause you don't want to
do that next step becausethat's fucking scary.
So that's how I talk to myself.
So yes, you're right.
Nos quedamos en ese, esazona de comfort, right?
We say in the comfort zoneand it's not a comfort zone.
It's what we know.
And it's, it's part ofour survival, right?
Yeah.
That's why we can do ancestralhealing, which I invite folks
(24:45):
and a Western therapy too.
Like I'm all aboutdifferent modalities.
I've had good therapists andawful therapists, and I've
been shopping around for yearslooking for different ones.
I've never had agreat therapist.
I did have a therapist on theprogram and she was very clear.
I'm not necessarilythe therapist for you.
So, and it's okay.
(25:06):
Cause we talked aboutlike, how do you break
up with your therapist?
And she's like, just tellme, because if I'm not
right for you, then I canopen up space for the next
person that I am right for.
And you now have the timeand energy to go find the
proper person for you.
And that's so important becausetherapy is, is an umbrella and
there's so many different ways.
(25:27):
within Western medicineto, to, to approach it.
Yeah.
And for some people like,like we're talking, we
do audio podcasts, right?
And some peopleprefer video podcasts.
Some people learn only bydoing instead of watching.
So there is a place for everyonewithin that, that paradigm.
(25:49):
You have to do the work.
You have to do the work.
And that's the hard part.
And that right there, thehard part is why people
stay in familiar discomfort.
Because even thoughthey're uncomfortable,
changing that takes a lot.
Yes.
And some people energeticallyaren't there yet.
(26:10):
They don't have the energy.
They're so piled on by societyof all these expectations and
all the stuff they literallyhave to do and all the things
that they think they have todo and all these expectations.
Y todo esto.
I mean, no wonderpeople are so angry.
Yes, and so unhappy, and theinvitation is here, right?
To embark in thisjourney of healing.
(26:32):
And healing is as anon-linear life process.
Así es.
If at first it's hard and messyand difficult, you're like,
wait, I'm supposed to feelbetter, but I feel more shitty.
Yeah.
It does tend to dip downfirst and then come up.
Yes.
It goes up and downlike a rollercoaster.
So if you're listeningand you're like, hell
(26:52):
no, I'm not ready or Idon't want to do this.
That's okay.
We're here, I'm here tohold space for that too.
Divesting from diet cultureis not causing harm.
And who am I to sayyou should do this?
Or this is a, you have your owndivine timing, whenever that is.
And whenever that happens,that's, that's time.
You just gotta be compassionate.
(27:13):
Again, I always bringcompassion in every interview
and even on my own podcast.
No, enserio, like, if youask me, what is a secret
sauce or a strategy you have?
Ah, compassion, self compassion.
And that's key becauseif we're not nice to
ourselves, who's going to be?
Oh gosh.
I have a whole thingon, on creating a hype
squad in your head.
(27:34):
I don't think I've donean actual episode on it.
Maybe I will after this,but that the way we
talk to ourselves is soincredibly important.
And all too often the voicein our head or for people
who don't have voices,the way they think about
themselves is purely negative.
And we always hear the term,if you wouldn't say it to
a friend, why would you sayit to yourself or talk to
(27:55):
yourself like you would afriend, assuming that we have
nice thoughts about them too.
But the truth is that we havea negative bias on the world.
It's so much easier tosee bad or see negative
things clearly than it isto see positive things.
So it's much easier to stayin the discomfort, talk to
ourselves poorly, talk toourselves negatively than
(28:18):
learn to do the opposite.
Yeah.
Another secret, it's justsomething you can learn
to do, like riding a bike,like learning to walk, like
learning to eat differentfood, or learning to get
back to your ancestral ties.
These are all thingsyou can learn to do.
They take time.
And they take effort.
It's a practice.
Yeah.
It's a practice.
(28:40):
Yeah.
Some people think you don't needto go spend thousands of dollars
for someone to tell you this.
Like we're here like genuinelytelling you the truth.
That is one of the bigstrategies in addition to
therapy, in addition tomovement that you enjoy outdoor,
in addition to connectionsand relationships, that's
part of your mental health.
(29:01):
But it's really being awareof these thoughts and where
do they come from and how havethey harmed you and how do
they not allow you to continueto show up or limit you?
What are the limiting beliefsthat you have about yourself?
And when we're ableto identify them.
That's where the workbegins, because that's
(29:23):
where our growth is.
Every time that we growprofessionally or personally,
these will come up.
These limitingthoughts will come up.
And it's scary.
I still struggle whenI have opportunities or
things that, goals that Ihave put forth and then the
universe blesses me withthem and in the right divine
timing, then I'm so scared.
(29:43):
I'm like, Oh my God, I'm scared.
I am freaking scared.
Can't believe this is happening.
And then the self sabotagingcomes in and then the, the
way that I talk to myselfand I'm here telling you,
I still struggle with this.
Digo, who are you todream this, this big?
And I'm being like, rightnow, compassionate is saying
(30:04):
that, but that's not the waythat I would say to myself.
And so growth, a lot of ourgrowth comes with reframing
these belief systemsand creating new ones.
Because once we createthose new ones and we
repeat them to ourselves,we can go for that goal.
And keep going and keepgoing and keep growing.
(30:26):
Growth is whatwe're looking for.
And growth looks alot of different ways
to different people.
But even as you're growing, asyou're breaking down all these
walls and barriers in your ownmind, you'll find new ones.
This is almost a constant thing.
And like Dra.
Jiménez just said, thosefears will still bubble up
(30:48):
until you deal with them.
But new new opportunities, newenvironments bring new fears.
But they're the same old theme.
Yes, it's the same fucking themeand I say fucking theme porque
I am so exhausted of the samenarrative that keeps popping up
for me and I'm like, oh my god.
Yo, I'm allowing it too,because it's easy to
(31:11):
stay in that narrative,because it's also safe.
It doesn't require you to grow.
It doesn't require you to havethe courage to take that step.
So, I'm all aboutembrace that fear.
Agarra a el miedo porlos cuernos, get the
bull by its horns.
Like get the fear byits horns and go for it.
(31:32):
Even though you're scared ashell and reach out to a support
system to cheer you, to send youthose messages, you got this.
That's what I do.
I'm crying.
I'm like, my legs arelike, I'm going to do this.
I feel like I'm going tofaint, like, like really, and,
and I'm calling, I'm crying.
And, and then I do it and thenI'm like, I did that, I did
(31:52):
that! I find it interesting thatso many of us women later
in life, because you and Iare about the same age, now
is the awakening for us.
And I really, really wish I'dhad this 20 years ago, right?
But I didn't have the lifeexperience 20 years ago
to even see this clearly.
So the best time to planta tree is 20 years ago.
(32:13):
The next best time is today.
So if you're hearing this today,and if you're of a certain age,
even if you're not, if you are25 listening to this, realize
that the change can start today.
It can start today.
The first step is recognizingthat you have to do it.
And then the second step is tokeep going because it's scary.
(32:35):
And if you're the first,if you're the first, for
example, childfree person inyour family, you had no other
models of how to be childfree.
What does that look like then?
Then you go find the communitywhere you're not the only one.
You go lean on the people whowill support you regardless.
And that's a couple ofsteps in the future.
But I'm thinking about myselfat 46 and how, man, I really
(32:58):
wish I'd found my voice earlier.
I really wish I'd found mypower, my superpower, the
thing that I'm good at.
But all of that had to berevealed when I was ready.
And that's the other thing.
You might not want to sitin that discomfort anymore.
You might really thinkthat you're ready.
You find out as soon as youstart taking the step, right?
(33:18):
You start breaking away fromthat spider web and breaking
out of your comfort zone.
And yeah, fear is natural.
It's one of those ancientsensations we would have
in order to keep us safe.
That part of your brain backthere that's ancient, that has
the flight or fight response inthe beginning and now it's grown
(33:40):
as we've evolved as humans.
There's fight, flight,fawn and freeze.
A lot of people freeze up whenthey're in fear and they want
to run away from the thing.
But the truth of the matteris that the things that scare
us are mostly expectationscoming from outside.
Because there's no real sabertooth tiger hiding in the
grass looking to attack us.
(34:01):
That doesn't reallyexist anymore.
Or whatever the modernequivalent is of someone
who's going to eat usif we step outside of
our comfort zone, right?
Yeah.
How have you dealt with that?
Before I answer the question,I just want to tell you that
I completely relate to whatyou shared about, like, why
didn't this happen 20 years ago?
I would say that in thelast 10 years, 7 years more
(34:22):
specifically, I would question.
And I would be upset and I wouldeven tell my therapist, why now?
Why couldn't I do this?
Why is it happening now?
Not in the past.
I was not compassionate andthat was really harming me.
And she's like, this,this is your time.
And I appreciatewhat you just shared.
And I want folks to know, causethat in itself is hard when you,
(34:45):
you're beating yourself up forlike, why didn't I do this work
20 years ago or 15 years ago?
Porque tenias que pasar portodas esas experiencias,
because you had to gothrough those experiences.
And they didn't reallyhit me until last year.
Like I just created a new coursecalled Latina Sexualities.
I had this course in mindfor years and I wasn't ready.
(35:08):
I intellectually, I had it.
But personally, I wasstruggling, I was struggling
and I could not get to thiscourse, and to create it in my
community college, until I didthe healing that I needed to do.
And I did it and thenI created this course.
And now this course, if I wouldhave created this course five
(35:29):
years ago versus now, I would Itwould be very different because
it's my lived experiences thatI'm putting into this, right?
So that's an invitationfor folks too, is I really
call like divine timing.
Las cosas en su momento,and don't think about like,
oh, what if in the past?
Because that onlymakes it worse, right?
And that, like I said, alsohampers your own healing.
(35:52):
And so now to answeryour question, how have
I done, um, my healing?
Yeah.
Like you said, beingthe first, right?
If you're the first in yourfamily to be childfree, that's
fucking scary to say, like,I'm not going to have children.
Y por qué, que vadecir la familia?
Like, well, all theseexpectations, but you had
the courage to say, this isthe life that I want for me.
(36:15):
And healing is courage.
Courage to unlearn.
To heal, but also to findyourself and your authentic
self because we're constantlychanging and evolving our
sense of our, our self.
And sometimes we tieour social identities,
identity or identities,to particular people.
(36:37):
And if we may lose themor if relationships end,
then you're like, who am I?
Yeah.
So I say, for me, it hasbeen a courageous act.
It has been beautiful, ithas been messy, it has been
painful, and it has beena rebirthing of Hortencia.
Who I am right now in 2024,it's very different who I
(37:00):
was in 2014, huge, huge.
And I think my family, mycommunity, I believe in
God, I don't believe in theinstitution of religion, but
I do believe in God and Ibelieve in my ancestors and
the creator and the spirit.
So all that and Western therapyhas been part of my healing.
And we didn't talk aboutit too much, but food.
(37:22):
I love food.
So connect the food.
Connecting to my traditionalculture foods, oh, eso
me da vida, me da amor,it gives me pleasure and
joy and see, happiness.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, your facelights up as soon as you
start talking about it.
So we're going totalk about it more.
That was part of the reasonPuerto Rico was, was so
necessary and special for me isbecause I don't get Puerto Rican
(37:44):
food in Los Angeles very often.
But being in Puerto Rico, beingable to eat la comida boricua
every day, if I wanted to.
And San Juan issuper cosmopolitan.
You can get any culturalfood there, but it was
all cooked by boricuas.
So coming back from that,not having it as available,
but by the same token, nowMexican food is more available.
(38:06):
And that's what I grew up with.
I found a Google questionand this disappointed me
because this is what happenswhen all of this data is
scraped by Western-ers,the Western culture.
Is traditional Mexicanfood a healthy diet?
Claro que si.
Claro que si.
And, uh, as a caveat here, I'ma health coach, but I am not
a nutritionist or dietitian.
(38:28):
So I can speak as a healthcoach and sociologist.
And health, and as Dalina Sotofrom Your Latina Nutritionist
talks about, health is how weas individuals have our own
definition of what health is.
But our culture foods havehistorically been demonized, and
that's research that I've doneas a sociologist and a chapter
(38:49):
that I have in my own book isWesterners and the dietitians
of the 18 and early 1900s, theyracialized the way that they
talked about or talked aboutculture foods was very racist.
We're talking about 18, early1900s, but this goes back
with the colonizers when theycame to the Americas, how they
(39:10):
vilified our culture foods.
That's where it comes from.
So we're talkingabout generations and
centuries of demonizingtraditional culture foods.
I'm telling youas a sociologist.
So here we are right now in2024, where que las tortillas
son malas, que el plátanofrito, que las comidas
(39:31):
tradicionales son malas, elracismo es malo, la homofobia
es mala, la discriminaciónpor ser imigrante mala, right?
Racism kills people.
Microaggressions have atoll on your mental health.
Why, why aren't wetalking about that?
That has a more impactthan eating canned food
or other food, right?
So, that's the nuancesthat are missing in
(39:53):
the wellness industry.
You can, quote, eat healthy andeating healthy is white middle
class ideas that they healthifyour culture foods, which I
find it extremely offensive.
Not only are theyhealthifying our foods,
but they're also culturallyappropriating our foods.
Or "discovering" ourculture of foods, right?
(40:14):
So that's part ofthe wellness and it's
connected to diet culture.
And like I said, I'mnot a nutritionist.
I can't tell you all thenutrients that our culture of
foods have, porque that's notmy training and it would be
a disservice if I tell you,la tortilla tiene esto, no?
Yo sé que tiene fibra.
Yo sé que los frijolestienen proteína y fibra
y otras cuantas cosas.
(40:35):
Pero that's what my ancestorsate and slowly I try, you
know, I eat conventional,I eat processed packaged
food, canned food, frozenfood, homemade food, whatever
is accessible for me anddepending on my time, right?
And we should not feelguilty because that's
what some folks may want.
(40:55):
One, to make you feel guiltyfor eating a certain foods,
but what are your resources?
What's your budget?
What's happening at home?
And sometimes we makecertain compromises, right?
So people need to stop shamingfolks for what they're eating.
And they need to stop shamingour culture foods because
our culture foods are richin culture, rich in love,
(41:16):
in the traditions, lasplaticas, the conversations
that happen in the kitchen.
That is all part of ourtraditional culture foods
in addition to all thenutrients that they offer.
Our culture as Americanosand along the Americas,
but also here in the U.
S., they will extract as muchmoney out of a superfood,
(41:41):
once it's discovered.
Let's talk aboutquinoa, for example.
We all know quinoa has ahigher amount of protein
than like white rice.
Yeah.
But once that was discovered,like you said, suddenly we
can make money off of it.
We can charge peoplea lot of money.
And then the rippling effect forthe indigenous people who have
eaten this their entire lives,suddenly it skyrockets in price
(42:04):
and it's taken away from them.
So that's when you're talkingabout cultural appropriation,
that's what sticks with me.
And that's what pisses me off.
That now avocados aresuperfood and everybody
get avocado and the priceof avocados gets insane.
Claro que si, that's how it is.
Well, how do I even likebegin to unpack this?
(42:27):
And I won't be ableto in this episode.
But I want folks to understandthat also like diet culture,
when we're talking aboutdiet culture and systems
of oppression, when we'retalking about food, an area
that people don't talk aboutin the wellness and in the
undieting space, which is whereI'm at, is the food system.
How the impact of the foodsupply chain, the environment,
(42:48):
some sustainability, andhow we are degrading our
environment and MotherEarth, all this is connected.
How food is produced, howworkers are exploited.
There's human rights abuses.
There's human trafficking.
There's people workingin restaurants.
You don't know.
Hay gente que esta aquíand modern slavery,
human trafficking.
So all this is connectedto systems of oppression.
(43:12):
Food is connected tothe food supply chain.
And also to the differentforms of inequality that
workers are experiencing.
And all too often, shamingaround food starts really young.
Really young, because kids arenot taught that there's more
than what they eat at home.
I was just watching a showwhere Alex Guarnaschelli,
(43:35):
she's a white woman whogrew up here in the US.
They're filming in Italy.
And one of the chefs onthe show, it's called Ciao
House, I'll put a link to it.
One of the chefs was Asian andhe was made fun of growing up
because one, he had a funnyname and two, he ate traditional
Asian food for lunch.
And kids would make fun ofhim because it was stinky,
because it was different.
(43:56):
And she, she was nearly intears talking about how she
experienced something similarbecause the Italian food
her mother would send herto school with was also so
different from what the restof her classmates were eating.
She would eat itin the bathroom.
So this isn't just happeningto little brown kids,
poor little brown kids.
This is just happening.
(44:16):
And parents need to do better.
Yes.
Parents, you need to dobetter with your kids and
teach them about diversityso that this stuff doesn't
happen in childhood.
So that we grow up beingwelcoming of stinky food as
opposed to shutting it downand making fun of people.
And then that leads to bullying.
And that's a wholenother systemic problem.
(44:37):
Everything is so interconnected.
Yes.
Yes, yeah, everythingis interconnected
and it's difficult.
I get to answer when otherLatinas reach out, like,
but como le hago, like,how do I talk to my mom
with the food and bodyshaming, but I live at home.
Generally, they're asking me forlike advice or direction and it
(44:59):
really just breaks my heart whenyou're trying to make changes,
when you're trying to unlearn.
And you live in that toxicityat home, and you don't have
a lot of freedom and liberty.
That is definitely a challenge,and the boundaries is important.
When we're talking aboutfood shaming is one disrupt,
(45:20):
calling it out, disrupting it.
But again, it's all abouthow's my mental health?
Do I have the capacity?
Do I have the energy toengage with this family member
or all this other person?
Do I just brush it off?
Do I ignore it?
Do I say a joke?
There's different strategies.
You'll use different strategieswith different people or just
depending on the context,depending on your energy.
So that's an invitation alsofor folks that you don't have
(45:42):
to put up with this shit.
You can set a boundaryand be like respectfully,
especially with our elders.
I will call them out in aloving, compassionate way
or don't say this, don'tsay this because I have
kids, don't say this to mykids, I would appreciate.
Or prep them beforethey see the kids.
It's a lot of emotionallabor involved.
(46:03):
Are we willing, do you havethe capacity to engage in that
emotional labor with loved oneswho you think will respect you?
And respect your decision, andperhaps it may even change.
And there's some elders quenunca van a cambiar, se van
a sentir ofendidos, they'regoing to feel offended.
And you're like, well, whynot do this battle with
this family member, right?
So pick your battles, butknow that you have the
(46:25):
power and agency to set aboundary, and boundaries are
going to look different fordifferent people in your life.
And it's unfortunate.
We, we barely even touchedon the body shaming
and the food shaming.
And we do have to wrap up soon.
So we're going to haveto do this again, Dra.
Jimenez! Yes, another episode.
And this is just another oneof those toxic cultural norms
we take for granted, that wecall people flaca or gordo.
(46:48):
Those are nicknames.
They are treated asterms of affection.
But they're also causingharm, and we really need to
examine that as a society.
As the older generation getsolder and it starts dying off,
no, it's not going to go awaybecause it's been passed down.
So if you're still hearingit, it's on us to say, ya!
(47:09):
Ya basta.
Ya basta.
Yes, ya basta.
Shamelessly plugging in here, Ihave a free resource, is a free
ebook on how to set boundarieson food and body shaming.
You can download it.
It comes from aculturally relevant lens.
So download the resource andsee what you can get from
there that can be helpful.
And I'll be more than happyto come back and talk more
(47:32):
about this because it's soingrained in our families.
The food and body shaming,that we, some folks
don't even question it.
At all.
Yeah.
Or dicen, oh, es que sison las cosas, that's
how things are, but itaffects your mental health.
Yes.
We are going to continuethis conversation.
We will have a link to your freeresources in the show notes.
So Dra.
Jimenez, is there anythingelse we should know about
you or anything else thatyou would like to promote?
(47:54):
Pues, support my workon Instagram, download
my free resource.
And then the last is mypodcast, Dismantling Diet
Culture, Fuck Being Calladita.
And you can support thepodcast by listening to
it, leaving a review.
And also, of course,leave a review here in La
Vida Más Chévere también.
And people think like, why?
Because representation matters.
(48:15):
When we get your review,when we get that star, that
gives us visibility becauseour voices are muted.
They're muted by other,bigger podcasts that
tend to not present thecommunities that we come from.
That's why we're alwayssaying, please leave a review.
Please follow thepodcast, please share it.
Tell a friend.
Si, that's whatallows us to grow.
(48:36):
But that's also how you starthelping other people have that
reframe, that mental shift,that allows them to let go of
those toxic cultural norms.
That's how it starts.
Just by sharing,sharing this episode.
Sharing Dra.
Jimenez's episodes as well.
I'm going to have a link toa couple that we mentioned,
but also go check her out.
(48:56):
And so will youplease wrap us up?
That's a burrito.
Hey, mira, if thisepisode made you feel
some kind of way, dígame!DM me on Instagram,
or send me a text.
You can do that rightfrom your phone.
If you want to be a gueston the show and put your
story out there too, checkout the guest form on my
(49:17):
website at pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Yup, just my name, pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Y no se te olvide quehay más perks when you
join the newsletter.
Todos estos links estánen los show notes.
Muchísimas gracias foryour support y hasta la
próxima vez, cuídate bien.
Buen día mi gente, and welcometo La Vida Más Chévere de
Childfree Latinas, the onlySpanglish podcast for Childfree
Latinas y Latines helping usliberate ourselves from the
toxic cultural brainwashing weall grew up with so that we can
design our best lives instead.
I'm your host andresident Childfree
(00:22):
Latina, Paulette Erato.
Today's episode is going tobe one of the most powerful
ones you've ever heard here.
Everything I talk abouton this program, my very
mission for La Vida MasChevere, this is the episode
that ties it all together.
I'm so excited for our guestsociologist, Doctora Hortencia
(00:43):
Jimenez, whose own show alsodiscusses these very topics.
Through this discussion, werefer to or touch on at least
nine or ten other toxic culturalnorms I've already covered
over the life of this show.
From voting, to self sabotage,to shrinking yourself to fit
into someone else's idea of you.
In this specific case, we'rereviewing society's ideals
(01:05):
around diet culture, andhow one, they're fucked
up, we already know that.
But also, how all of thistoxicity I've already
mentioned is interconnected,like a spider web.
While our focus is goingto be on how insidious diet
culture is, and how it showsup in different areas of our
life, from demonizing of ourcultural food, to calling
(01:27):
each other gordo y flaca, Ihope that what you're able
to take away from this ishow it's all linked together.
As the professor breaks it alldown, you'll hear echoes of my
chats with Ana del Castillo,who spoke about cutting off
pieces of yourselves to fit in.
And also Professor Asultany,who literally wrote the book on
the harm caused by media bias.
(01:48):
And while we're not solving anyproblems here today, this is
a very eye opening interview.
And as Doctora Jimenezwill tell us, the first
step towards dismantlingany systemic oppression
starts with the individual.
So what we're doing todayis we're giving you the
awareness, like I try todo in every episode, so you
can start the process ofunlearning in your own life.
(02:11):
That's what this podcastis all about, making you
aware of each of these toxiccultural traditions and ways
of thinking and systems thatwe simply accept as normal,
even though we shouldn't.
And once you see it,you can't unsee it.
When you're uncomfortableenough, then you'll
make a change.
So at the same time,it's about getting out
(02:32):
of your comfort zone.
Fun, right?
In our desire to assimilate,we've become so far removed
from our ancestral and culturalwealth and knowledge that
we're in danger of beingdevoured by the system.
And that's a difficultbalance, right?
Acculturating or code switchingso we fit in, but at the
same time not letting goof what makes us stand out.
(02:55):
That's a lot.
We understand.
That doesn't meanwe shouldn't do it.
Before we start, let me tell youa little bit about our guest.
Dr.
Hortencia Jimenez is aqueer Mexicana inmigrante
of Wixárika ancestry.
She was born in SierraMadre in Nayarit, Mexico,
and immigrated to the U.
S.
as a child.
She holds a B.
(03:15):
A., an M.
A., and a Ph.
D.
in sociology and is alsoa certified intuitive
eating counselor.
Dr.
Jimenez is a sociologyprofessor and the author
of the book, ChallengingInequalities, Readings in Race,
Ethnicity, and Immigration.
And co author of LatinxExperiences, Interdisciplinary
Perspectives by Sage Publishing.
Her research has appearedin academic publications
(03:37):
and has numerous awards andrecognitions for her work
in the Latinx community.
As it should be.
She has been featured in TheLuz Media, Be Latina News, Hip
Latina, Poderositas, HispanicKitchen, Canvas Rebel Magazine,
and most recently, in LA Weekly.
Radio stations and numerouspodcasts throughout the U.
(03:57):
S.
have also interviewed her.
She is currently a co hostfor the Radio Joya 1570
AM, Comunidad en Contexo.
Dr.
Jiménez also hosts a podcastcalled Dismantling Diet
Culture, Fuck Being Calladita.
Her work centers ondismantling diet culture
from a social and racialjustice framework, and helps
Latinxs heal the relationshipwith food and body image.
(04:20):
And she's going to tell usexactly how we can do all that.
By the way, we spoke a lotof Spanglish in this episode.
If you need a translatedversion, get on the Substack
newsletter, which will havethat translated version
available later this week.
Now, let's go talkto the professor.
I am talking to the oneand only Doctora Hortencia
Jimenez today, and I cannottell y'all how excited I am.
(04:43):
So, Doctora Jimenez, porfavor, tell us, what is
diet culture and why do wehave to be so aware of this?
Thank you so much for invitingme on your podcast to be
part of your community.
I am very passionate aboutdismantling diet culture and
not being silenced, right?
(05:03):
Not being calladita.
As a sociologist, as a trainedsociologist, professor, an
author and researcher, aswell as a health coach, the
way that I conceptualize dietculture is as an industry
that is rooted in systems ofoppression in our society.
And I invite folks tothink about a spider web.
(05:23):
A spider web has a lot ofinterrelated threads, right?
And so when I think aboutthe diet culture industry.
It's like a macro, like a hugeindustry, but it's made up of
different institutions suchas the family, the government,
religion, the healthcaresystem, the fashion industry,
the beauty industry, the media.
So all these institutionsenforce belief systems and
(05:47):
values that oftentimes make usfeel, and we are also oppressed.
So I say for me that dietculture is a system of
oppression rooted in patriarchy,rooted in cis heteronormativity
that perpetuates a lot ofthe -isms in our society.
And specifically, peoplethink about diet culture
as doing dieting.
(06:08):
That's just, forme, one component.
I see it very morebroad and holistic.
It's more than just trying toconform to these Western ideals
of body image, of thinness,of middle class, cisgender,
which leaves out a wholediverse population, right?
(06:28):
And so that's how Iconceptualized diet culture.
So, the systems of oppressionyou mentioned, patriarchy,
there's also all of itsbrothers, the misogyny,
that it's just inherent.
Fatphobia.
We can go on and on, right?
What I love about your podcastspecifically is your tagline
is, fuck being calladita.
(06:48):
And that's so importantbecause that is yet another
system of oppression, takingaway people's voice, taking
away their power to speak.
So when people talk aboutstepping into their power,
what they're saying is they'refinding their voice and they're
giving themselves permission,liberating themselves from
not being able to speak up.
(07:09):
And you provide that platform.
And I'm so excited.
Oh, I feel like cryingjust hearing you say that.
When you hear someonesaying that, it's powerful.
It's so powerful, right?
And it's so liberating whenwe're able to tap and honor
and embrace our voices andspeak up when we have been
(07:30):
conditioned and socializedall our life not to, right?
And not take space.
So thank you for thatvalidation and affirmation and
really what it is, it's, itshouldn't be radical, right?
But for many of ourfamilies, it's like they
remain silent and they want,they want us to continue
to follow the status quo.
And not, not make noise, notcause trouble, no ser unas
(07:52):
rebeldes, or the differentlabels that our family
uses to try to silence andput us in, quote, place.
Putting a woman in her placehas long been a sport for as
long as men have been in power.
And women, when they getthemselves into power, it's
that like proximity to power,proximity to whiteness.
They tend to also thentry to silence women
(08:15):
behind them, don't they?
Absolutely.
Yes.
And you brought up, right,like, yes, the systems of
oppression, like misogynyand there's homophobia.
And for folks who perhaps don'tknow and need a little bit of
refresher, the way that I talkabout systems of oppression,
I want folks to think about itfrom a systematic macro lens.
(08:37):
And what I mean bythat institutional and
systematic, it's that it'sembedded in the social
institutions of our society.
The systems of oppressionhave been at the foundation
of the birth of thisnation, that's how rooted
systems of oppression are.
And it's systematic, it's,we're talking about not decades,
but centuries of mistreatment,of exploitation, of abuse,
(09:01):
of people of color, of BIPOCfolks in the United States.
And that's one part, right,at the systemic macro level,
which translates at theindividual interpersonal
level, how we internalize alot of these belief systems
that as an Indigenous woman,they were not ours, that I
was part of the colonizer.
(09:21):
So we have colonized ideas thatif we don't unlearn them, we're
creating harm at the individualand interpersonal level.
So how do we do that?
Institutions and individualscan perpetrate sexism,
can perpetrate ableism,classism, ageism,
antisemitism, nativism, right?
And we can keep going.
(09:42):
So when I talk aboutsystems of oppression,
that's what I refer to.
So the decolonizing aspectof diet culture is removing
those Western ideals, right?
Yes, yes, yes, it'sunlearning them, and I think
sometimes it's hard, right?
We can't unlearn and dismantlesomething if we're not aware.
(10:04):
That's the first step.
People have questionedme and challenged me,
which I welcome all that.
Always when it comes from aplace of intention, right?
Right.
And they're like, well, wereally can dismantle diet
culture because it's this, it'sa system, it's an industry.
I'm like, yes, we can.
I'm a sociologist.
It all begins at theindividual level.
It all begins with you.
(10:24):
It starts with you.
So yes, I sometimes feel like,am I making a difference?
Estoy poniendo migranito de arena, because
sometimes it feels so big.
But then I think itstarts with one person.
It's talking to your family,talking to the woman in your
life, to the men in your life,to the people in your life.
And the ideas and valuesthat you have internalized
(10:46):
for generations that werepassed on from like three
or four generations,they don't belong to us.
And if we continue to hold onto some of these oppressive
ideas and values, Sometimeswe lose ourself, we lose our
sense of authenticity, oursense of identity for trying
to conform to society andlo que quiere la familia.
(11:06):
And that's why Ilike your podcast.
It's like, you are dismantlingdiet culture because you're
like, fuck, like, I don'twant to have children.
And there's so muchshame that the family
makes you feel guilty.
Just because we're born with thevagina doesn't mean that, like,
you're supposed to be a mother.
Hello.
But again, these are ingrainedideas passed on from one
generation to another.
(11:27):
So the work that you aredoing is dismantling diet
culture because una mujerno tiene que ser madre nomás
porque es una mujer, right?
Son ideas que se hanpasado de la religión.
Plays a big role.
So see how we'relinking the family as an
institution and religion.
And so these play a big role.
So, I think that that'swhy I like the way that I
(11:49):
conceptualize diet culturebecause it's very broad and very
holistic, they're interrelated.
We can't just say that it'sjust dieting, it's food.
No, as people of color, ofcommunities of color in the
United States, it's all thesesystems and how they work
together to, to marginalize us.
As we've learned, sometimesit takes you being brave
(12:11):
to stake your claim and bedifferent, to not conform to
what the family, what society,la iglesia, religion, all of
these things are telling us.
And we feel like we're the oneswho are wrong, whether it's that
we aren't having kids or thatwe aren't a size double zero.
(12:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's been a shifttoo, because I remember in
the nineties, for example,most of the people you saw
on TV were not super skinny.
They weren't little, little,they were like the size
six was the ideal, right?
And size six is still small,but it's not size two.
It's not size zero.
(12:55):
Que pasó?
What do you think has happenedin the last 30 years that we
just want women to be smallerand smaller and smaller?
Hmm.
Ooh, there's so much to unpack.
We're talking aboutsocial constructs and
social construction ofthe ideal body type.
The idea that the sizeis going to determine
your worth, and beauty.
(13:18):
And ultimately it doestranslate for some folks
to access to resources andopportunities and that for
some can translate into power.
That's one thing, right?
The social construction ofsize, because who gets to
decide that this is the size?
What are the institutions?
The media is an institution.
(13:38):
Also, the fashionindustry plays a big role.
People can demand, that'swhy now we see that
shift in health of everysize and body diversity.
There's slowly a shift,very slow shift, where we
can see more clothes forwomen in bigger bodies.
But that was not thecase in the past.
Again, so we're talking aboutthe social construction of
(14:01):
size and clothes and whohas the power, like who
sets these trends, right?
People in positions of power,and oftentimes it's white,
cisgender women who are instraight sized bodies and
heterosexual men, middleclass, upper class white men.
Or if it's women of color, tendto be also thin women as well.
(14:24):
But, como dicen, ya basta no?
Like, people are, they'refucking fed up that there's
a lack of representation.
And people are fucking dying.
They're starving themselvesto fit into size zero.
When they have a beautifulblueprint that's different and
we're unique, but we've beenconditioned to think that this
is what we need to aim for.
(14:44):
And the more time that you spendtrying to conform and literally
physically shrink by losingweight, we're not taking space.
So we think about it physically,but metaphorically too.
You're spending your time, yourresources to shrink when you can
spend your time and resourcesto feel empowered, to be brave
(15:05):
and strong and be outspokenand take space and take these
positions of leadership.
So I generally do think thatdiet culture flourishes by women
shrinking, and not just women,straight, cisgender women, but
folks in the LGBTQ community.
If you're spending so muchtime doing that, you're
(15:26):
depleted energetically.
How are you going to dothe fight for liberation?
How are you going toadvocate for others?
You don't, you, you loseyourself in that sense..
So yes, you're shrinking for,for someone, but also you
can be doing other importantthings in, in the community.
But we've been gaslightedthat we don't have power,
(15:48):
that what we do doesn'tcreate social change.
And that's not true.
Especially in an election year,so many people are disillusioned
and cynical because theydon't think their vote counts.
And now more than ever, it does.
Maybe not on the federal level.
Maybe when we're votingfor president and that's
(16:08):
all we think is important.
So, the media runswith that, right?
They give full coverageto just the presidential
election, and if you've alreadyopted out because you don't
think your vote matters, itdismisses all of the work
that happens down ballot.
Yeah, that's right.
And the, and the local, right?
The local work that you canbe doing at the city and
(16:30):
at the county level, right?
And state.
Those are huge.
Those are, and those arehuge, especially when those
margins are smaller towns,smaller municipalities,
the state, those things canbe decided with your vote.
So that's really importantat the local level.
And voting is one way tomake your voice heard, and
start dismantling thesesystemic institutions.
(16:53):
Because you're right.
Change happens slowly, butit happens with you first.
And then it starts ripplingout as we get more confident
to continue making that change.
As you were talking, Iwas realizing some of
the, some of that systemicshit in my own life.
I gained a lot ofweight post COVID.
And when we moved to PuertoRico, I lost a chunk of it.
(17:16):
But I lost a chunkof it by being sick.
And I don't know what washappening with my body.
We never figured it out, butI lost 10 pounds and I knew
that wasn't sustainable.
But I was so happy losta quarter of the weight
and that is fucked.
up.
Yeah.
That is so unhealthy.
My God.
I thank you for sharing that.
(17:37):
And that's for everyone.
One of the things that Idon't like about social
media, even in the undietingspaces, there's no shame
if you want to lose weight.
We're here to hold that spacefor that, these contradictions
and the messiness of like,but wait, but I want to
hold on to this idea.
Because there's perksor it gives me access.
(17:57):
Especially if there's trauma,if there's childhood adverse
experiences and you'vebeen conditioned to be a
people pleaser and there'sso much to unpack, right?
So many nuances.
So I also just want toinvite folks to hold space
for these contradictions andsometimes it just doesn't
have to make fucking sense.
Like just sit with it and, andbe compassionate with yourself.
(18:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just, that just feltlike something left my body just
now and what I'm hoping is theshame that I'm hanging on to.
Yeah, let it go.
Because, yeah, it needs,it needs to come out.
And so thank you for helpingme walk through that.
(18:40):
So, we talked about the systemsthat are in place, we've
talked about how everything'sinterconnected, there's a
spider web, and at the centerof it is these institutions
that have made this systemic,that's the spider web,
that's the system we live in.
How can I, as a littlefly, trapped in the
spiderweb, not get devoured?
(19:03):
How does the individualfind themselves and
save themselves, really?
As a woman of indigenousancestry and being proud of
being from the Sierra Madrein the state of Nayarit,
which is very high in themountains, very, very, very,
very, very, very rural.
Where they live off theland and you're away
(19:24):
really from the capital.
Like it's very remote.
And I say this because I trulybelieve, and that's why we've
been, and I get emotional, we'vebeen gaslighted by diet culture
and systems of oppression thatwe need to conform to society.
That we quote,need to assimilate.
Which is, that's not true.
(19:45):
Now we do acculturate, but inthe process of acculturating
and for some folks to completelyleave their heritage, their
foods, their custom, thatis what diet culture wants.
When we disconnect culturallyand ancestrally, we are
giving our power away.
And so I share this becauselike one, where I'm coming
(20:08):
from, and then as an indigenouswoman, and then my academic
training, all this hashelped me in my own healing.
And so while we, yeah, we canbe the mosquita, be really
small, maybe feel that we'regoing to be devoured, I am
calling folks to tap into theirancestry, to tap into their
(20:30):
ancestral wealth and knowledge.
We have that.
It's in our DNA.
We carry it right nowin our bodies, but we've
been disconnected becauseof colonialism, because
of the violence that ourancestors had to survive.
But we have thatpower and that agency.
Yeah, you might not knowwho your grandparents are,
(20:50):
great grandparents, butcan you do some research?
Can you find outmore information?
Can you learn more aboutyour cultural ancestor
practices, your foods?
And it's the indigenous revival,right, a cultural revival.
You can do that, connectto the land, to Mother
Earth, religious, if youwant, or spiritually.
(21:10):
For me, that has been part ofthe healing and has honestly,
and that's feeling vulnerabletoo, it has been my superpower.
I don't want to sharethis often with folks.
My indigeneity, likere indigenizing journey
has saved my life comingout as a queer woman.
Tapping into that andconnecting to my ancestors
(21:33):
and their wisdom and themessages that they have for
me, give me a deeper meaning.
Y no me importa lo que digala gente, lo que los demas van
a decir, porque if you havea strong conviction and you
have a mission and a visionthat is beyond an ego, and
that it's a deep calling,ancestral calling, and community
(21:56):
that is community oriented,you're fucking powerful.
But I didn't get herelike de un dia para
otro, it's been 20 years.
Right?
It's been 20 years and it's beenlike, honestly, the last seven
years have been so painful.
I bet.
So I stand here today strongand I feel like fierce.
I have my days where Ifeel like I'm so fierce and
(22:16):
there's days where I feelso vulnerable and so scared.
But then I go to my altar, I goand connect with my ancestors,
I play my drum, I play myfruit, I burn some sage, I
have my herbs in my garden,my mom believes strongly in,
ay, como se llama esta yerba?
Eh, it's, it's very stinky.
Anyway, I have it in mygarden, y me hago una limpia.
And so I do ancestor practices.
(22:38):
We've been gaslightedby white supremacy, que,
what the fuck is that?
You're not supposed to, esono funciona, eso es cosa
del diablo dice la religión.
But honestly, and when we'reable to tap into that, I think
we are grounded and have adeeper sense of our identities.
And that's how I, that's howwe are able to do this work.
(22:58):
Because when you see it,you're like, how am I going
to get out of this spiderweb?
Porque no vas acer tu.
It's not just one person.
That's part of individualismand rooted in white supremacy.
I don't do it by myself.
You're not doing thiswork on your own.
We have community and communitylooks very different for folks.
We belong todifferent communities.
So you're doing your ownindividual healing work and
(23:20):
dismantling of internalizednarratives, and you're also
doing that in community.
You're doing it with thesupport system or you find
that support system and thenthat's how we're able to
create that change in ourcommunities like physically in
our communities and our familiesis that like people may think
oh that sounds really nice.
Well, I've been doing the work.
(23:41):
I have been doing the work.
This is possible.
It's hard work.
That's why folks don't,folks don't want to do it.
But social change begins atthe individual level and it's
collective and then systematic.
I had a previous guestand we were talking about
burnout, which again, is oneof those colonized mindsets.
And she was talking about howpeople stay in familiar pain
(24:04):
because it's comfortable.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, and it's, it'scomfortable and you,
you're familiar with it.
You're like, how can feelingshitty be comfortable, right?
It is the fact that thatfeeling, and when we're able
to catch ourselves, porqueI go back and then I say to
myself, Hortencia, are youself sabotaging yourself?
(24:25):
Are you feeling shittybecause you don't want to
do that next step becausethat's fucking scary.
So that's how I talk to myself.
So yes, you're right.
Nos quedamos en ese, esazona de comfort, right?
We say in the comfort zoneand it's not a comfort zone.
It's what we know.
And it's, it's part ofour survival, right?
Yeah.
That's why we can do ancestralhealing, which I invite folks
(24:45):
and a Western therapy too.
Like I'm all aboutdifferent modalities.
I've had good therapists andawful therapists, and I've
been shopping around for yearslooking for different ones.
I've never had agreat therapist.
I did have a therapist on theprogram and she was very clear.
I'm not necessarilythe therapist for you.
So, and it's okay.
(25:06):
Cause we talked aboutlike, how do you break
up with your therapist?
And she's like, just tellme, because if I'm not
right for you, then I canopen up space for the next
person that I am right for.
And you now have the timeand energy to go find the
proper person for you.
And that's so important becausetherapy is, is an umbrella and
there's so many different ways.
(25:27):
within Western medicineto, to, to approach it.
Yeah.
And for some people like,like we're talking, we
do audio podcasts, right?
And some peopleprefer video podcasts.
Some people learn only bydoing instead of watching.
So there is a place for everyonewithin that, that paradigm.
(25:49):
You have to do the work.
You have to do the work.
And that's the hard part.
And that right there, thehard part is why people
stay in familiar discomfort.
Because even thoughthey're uncomfortable,
changing that takes a lot.
Yes.
And some people energeticallyaren't there yet.
(26:10):
They don't have the energy.
They're so piled on by societyof all these expectations and
all the stuff they literallyhave to do and all the things
that they think they have todo and all these expectations.
Y todo esto.
I mean, no wonderpeople are so angry.
Yes, and so unhappy, and theinvitation is here, right?
To embark in thisjourney of healing.
(26:32):
And healing is as anon-linear life process.
Así es.
If at first it's hard and messyand difficult, you're like,
wait, I'm supposed to feelbetter, but I feel more shitty.
Yeah.
It does tend to dip downfirst and then come up.
Yes.
It goes up and downlike a rollercoaster.
So if you're listeningand you're like, hell
(26:52):
no, I'm not ready or Idon't want to do this.
That's okay.
We're here, I'm here tohold space for that too.
Divesting from diet cultureis not causing harm.
And who am I to sayyou should do this?
Or this is a, you have your owndivine timing, whenever that is.
And whenever that happens,that's, that's time.
You just gotta be compassionate.
(27:13):
Again, I always bringcompassion in every interview
and even on my own podcast.
No, enserio, like, if youask me, what is a secret
sauce or a strategy you have?
Ah, compassion, self compassion.
And that's key becauseif we're not nice to
ourselves, who's going to be?
Oh gosh.
I have a whole thingon, on creating a hype
squad in your head.
(27:34):
I don't think I've donean actual episode on it.
Maybe I will after this,but that the way we
talk to ourselves is soincredibly important.
And all too often the voicein our head or for people
who don't have voices,the way they think about
themselves is purely negative.
And we always hear the term,if you wouldn't say it to
a friend, why would you sayit to yourself or talk to
(27:55):
yourself like you would afriend, assuming that we have
nice thoughts about them too.
But the truth is that we havea negative bias on the world.
It's so much easier tosee bad or see negative
things clearly than it isto see positive things.
So it's much easier to stayin the discomfort, talk to
ourselves poorly, talk toourselves negatively than
(28:18):
learn to do the opposite.
Yeah.
Another secret, it's justsomething you can learn
to do, like riding a bike,like learning to walk, like
learning to eat differentfood, or learning to get
back to your ancestral ties.
These are all thingsyou can learn to do.
They take time.
And they take effort.
It's a practice.
Yeah.
It's a practice.
(28:40):
Yeah.
Some people think you don't needto go spend thousands of dollars
for someone to tell you this.
Like we're here like genuinelytelling you the truth.
That is one of the bigstrategies in addition to
therapy, in addition tomovement that you enjoy outdoor,
in addition to connectionsand relationships, that's
part of your mental health.
(29:01):
But it's really being awareof these thoughts and where
do they come from and how havethey harmed you and how do
they not allow you to continueto show up or limit you?
What are the limiting beliefsthat you have about yourself?
And when we're ableto identify them.
That's where the workbegins, because that's
(29:23):
where our growth is.
Every time that we growprofessionally or personally,
these will come up.
These limitingthoughts will come up.
And it's scary.
I still struggle whenI have opportunities or
things that, goals that Ihave put forth and then the
universe blesses me withthem and in the right divine
timing, then I'm so scared.
(29:43):
I'm like, Oh my God, I'm scared.
I am freaking scared.
Can't believe this is happening.
And then the self sabotagingcomes in and then the, the
way that I talk to myselfand I'm here telling you,
I still struggle with this.
Digo, who are you todream this, this big?
And I'm being like, rightnow, compassionate is saying
(30:04):
that, but that's not the waythat I would say to myself.
And so growth, a lot of ourgrowth comes with reframing
these belief systemsand creating new ones.
Because once we createthose new ones and we
repeat them to ourselves,we can go for that goal.
And keep going and keepgoing and keep growing.
(30:26):
Growth is whatwe're looking for.
And growth looks alot of different ways
to different people.
But even as you're growing, asyou're breaking down all these
walls and barriers in your ownmind, you'll find new ones.
This is almost a constant thing.
And like Dra.
Jiménez just said, thosefears will still bubble up
(30:48):
until you deal with them.
But new new opportunities, newenvironments bring new fears.
But they're the same old theme.
Yes, it's the same fucking themeand I say fucking theme porque
I am so exhausted of the samenarrative that keeps popping up
for me and I'm like, oh my god.
Yo, I'm allowing it too,because it's easy to
(31:11):
stay in that narrative,because it's also safe.
It doesn't require you to grow.
It doesn't require you to havethe courage to take that step.
So, I'm all aboutembrace that fear.
Agarra a el miedo porlos cuernos, get the
bull by its horns.
Like get the fear byits horns and go for it.
(31:32):
Even though you're scared ashell and reach out to a support
system to cheer you, to send youthose messages, you got this.
That's what I do.
I'm crying.
I'm like, my legs arelike, I'm going to do this.
I feel like I'm going tofaint, like, like really, and,
and I'm calling, I'm crying.
And, and then I do it and thenI'm like, I did that, I did
(31:52):
that! I find it interesting thatso many of us women later
in life, because you and Iare about the same age, now
is the awakening for us.
And I really, really wish I'dhad this 20 years ago, right?
But I didn't have the lifeexperience 20 years ago
to even see this clearly.
So the best time to planta tree is 20 years ago.
(32:13):
The next best time is today.
So if you're hearing this today,and if you're of a certain age,
even if you're not, if you are25 listening to this, realize
that the change can start today.
It can start today.
The first step is recognizingthat you have to do it.
And then the second step is tokeep going because it's scary.
(32:35):
And if you're the first,if you're the first, for
example, childfree person inyour family, you had no other
models of how to be childfree.
What does that look like then?
Then you go find the communitywhere you're not the only one.
You go lean on the people whowill support you regardless.
And that's a couple ofsteps in the future.
But I'm thinking about myselfat 46 and how, man, I really
(32:58):
wish I'd found my voice earlier.
I really wish I'd found mypower, my superpower, the
thing that I'm good at.
But all of that had to berevealed when I was ready.
And that's the other thing.
You might not want to sitin that discomfort anymore.
You might really thinkthat you're ready.
You find out as soon as youstart taking the step, right?
(33:18):
You start breaking away fromthat spider web and breaking
out of your comfort zone.
And yeah, fear is natural.
It's one of those ancientsensations we would have
in order to keep us safe.
That part of your brain backthere that's ancient, that has
the flight or fight response inthe beginning and now it's grown
(33:40):
as we've evolved as humans.
There's fight, flight,fawn and freeze.
A lot of people freeze up whenthey're in fear and they want
to run away from the thing.
But the truth of the matteris that the things that scare
us are mostly expectationscoming from outside.
Because there's no real sabertooth tiger hiding in the
grass looking to attack us.
(34:01):
That doesn't reallyexist anymore.
Or whatever the modernequivalent is of someone
who's going to eat usif we step outside of
our comfort zone, right?
Yeah.
How have you dealt with that?
Before I answer the question,I just want to tell you that
I completely relate to whatyou shared about, like, why
didn't this happen 20 years ago?
I would say that in thelast 10 years, 7 years more
(34:22):
specifically, I would question.
And I would be upset and I wouldeven tell my therapist, why now?
Why couldn't I do this?
Why is it happening now?
Not in the past.
I was not compassionate andthat was really harming me.
And she's like, this,this is your time.
And I appreciatewhat you just shared.
And I want folks to know, causethat in itself is hard when you,
(34:45):
you're beating yourself up forlike, why didn't I do this work
20 years ago or 15 years ago?
Porque tenias que pasar portodas esas experiencias,
because you had to gothrough those experiences.
And they didn't reallyhit me until last year.
Like I just created a new coursecalled Latina Sexualities.
I had this course in mindfor years and I wasn't ready.
(35:08):
I intellectually, I had it.
But personally, I wasstruggling, I was struggling
and I could not get to thiscourse, and to create it in my
community college, until I didthe healing that I needed to do.
And I did it and thenI created this course.
And now this course, if I wouldhave created this course five
(35:29):
years ago versus now, I would Itwould be very different because
it's my lived experiences thatI'm putting into this, right?
So that's an invitationfor folks too, is I really
call like divine timing.
Las cosas en su momento,and don't think about like,
oh, what if in the past?
Because that onlymakes it worse, right?
And that, like I said, alsohampers your own healing.
(35:52):
And so now to answeryour question, how have
I done, um, my healing?
Yeah.
Like you said, beingthe first, right?
If you're the first in yourfamily to be childfree, that's
fucking scary to say, like,I'm not going to have children.
Y por qué, que vadecir la familia?
Like, well, all theseexpectations, but you had
the courage to say, this isthe life that I want for me.
(36:15):
And healing is courage.
Courage to unlearn.
To heal, but also to findyourself and your authentic
self because we're constantlychanging and evolving our
sense of our, our self.
And sometimes we tieour social identities,
identity or identities,to particular people.
(36:37):
And if we may lose themor if relationships end,
then you're like, who am I?
Yeah.
So I say, for me, it hasbeen a courageous act.
It has been beautiful, ithas been messy, it has been
painful, and it has beena rebirthing of Hortencia.
Who I am right now in 2024,it's very different who I
(37:00):
was in 2014, huge, huge.
And I think my family, mycommunity, I believe in
God, I don't believe in theinstitution of religion, but
I do believe in God and Ibelieve in my ancestors and
the creator and the spirit.
So all that and Western therapyhas been part of my healing.
And we didn't talk aboutit too much, but food.
(37:22):
I love food.
So connect the food.
Connecting to my traditionalculture foods, oh, eso
me da vida, me da amor,it gives me pleasure and
joy and see, happiness.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, your facelights up as soon as you
start talking about it.
So we're going totalk about it more.
That was part of the reasonPuerto Rico was, was so
necessary and special for me isbecause I don't get Puerto Rican
(37:44):
food in Los Angeles very often.
But being in Puerto Rico, beingable to eat la comida boricua
every day, if I wanted to.
And San Juan issuper cosmopolitan.
You can get any culturalfood there, but it was
all cooked by boricuas.
So coming back from that,not having it as available,
but by the same token, nowMexican food is more available.
(38:06):
And that's what I grew up with.
I found a Google questionand this disappointed me
because this is what happenswhen all of this data is
scraped by Western-ers,the Western culture.
Is traditional Mexicanfood a healthy diet?
Claro que si.
Claro que si.
And, uh, as a caveat here, I'ma health coach, but I am not
a nutritionist or dietitian.
(38:28):
So I can speak as a healthcoach and sociologist.
And health, and as Dalina Sotofrom Your Latina Nutritionist
talks about, health is how weas individuals have our own
definition of what health is.
But our culture foods havehistorically been demonized, and
that's research that I've doneas a sociologist and a chapter
(38:49):
that I have in my own book isWesterners and the dietitians
of the 18 and early 1900s, theyracialized the way that they
talked about or talked aboutculture foods was very racist.
We're talking about 18, early1900s, but this goes back
with the colonizers when theycame to the Americas, how they
(39:10):
vilified our culture foods.
That's where it comes from.
So we're talkingabout generations and
centuries of demonizingtraditional culture foods.
I'm telling youas a sociologist.
So here we are right now in2024, where que las tortillas
son malas, que el plátanofrito, que las comidas
(39:31):
tradicionales son malas, elracismo es malo, la homofobia
es mala, la discriminaciónpor ser imigrante mala, right?
Racism kills people.
Microaggressions have atoll on your mental health.
Why, why aren't wetalking about that?
That has a more impactthan eating canned food
or other food, right?
So, that's the nuancesthat are missing in
(39:53):
the wellness industry.
You can, quote, eat healthy andeating healthy is white middle
class ideas that they healthifyour culture foods, which I
find it extremely offensive.
Not only are theyhealthifying our foods,
but they're also culturallyappropriating our foods.
Or "discovering" ourculture of foods, right?
(40:14):
So that's part ofthe wellness and it's
connected to diet culture.
And like I said, I'mnot a nutritionist.
I can't tell you all thenutrients that our culture of
foods have, porque that's notmy training and it would be
a disservice if I tell you,la tortilla tiene esto, no?
Yo sé que tiene fibra.
Yo sé que los frijolestienen proteína y fibra
y otras cuantas cosas.
(40:35):
Pero that's what my ancestorsate and slowly I try, you
know, I eat conventional,I eat processed packaged
food, canned food, frozenfood, homemade food, whatever
is accessible for me anddepending on my time, right?
And we should not feelguilty because that's
what some folks may want.
(40:55):
One, to make you feel guiltyfor eating a certain foods,
but what are your resources?
What's your budget?
What's happening at home?
And sometimes we makecertain compromises, right?
So people need to stop shamingfolks for what they're eating.
And they need to stop shamingour culture foods because
our culture foods are richin culture, rich in love,
(41:16):
in the traditions, lasplaticas, the conversations
that happen in the kitchen.
That is all part of ourtraditional culture foods
in addition to all thenutrients that they offer.
Our culture as Americanosand along the Americas,
but also here in the U.
S., they will extract as muchmoney out of a superfood,
(41:41):
once it's discovered.
Let's talk aboutquinoa, for example.
We all know quinoa has ahigher amount of protein
than like white rice.
Yeah.
But once that was discovered,like you said, suddenly we
can make money off of it.
We can charge peoplea lot of money.
And then the rippling effect forthe indigenous people who have
eaten this their entire lives,suddenly it skyrockets in price
(42:04):
and it's taken away from them.
So that's when you're talkingabout cultural appropriation,
that's what sticks with me.
And that's what pisses me off.
That now avocados aresuperfood and everybody
get avocado and the priceof avocados gets insane.
Claro que si, that's how it is.
Well, how do I even likebegin to unpack this?
(42:27):
And I won't be ableto in this episode.
But I want folks to understandthat also like diet culture,
when we're talking aboutdiet culture and systems
of oppression, when we'retalking about food, an area
that people don't talk aboutin the wellness and in the
undieting space, which is whereI'm at, is the food system.
How the impact of the foodsupply chain, the environment,
(42:48):
some sustainability, andhow we are degrading our
environment and MotherEarth, all this is connected.
How food is produced, howworkers are exploited.
There's human rights abuses.
There's human trafficking.
There's people workingin restaurants.
You don't know.
Hay gente que esta aquíand modern slavery,
human trafficking.
So all this is connectedto systems of oppression.
(43:12):
Food is connected tothe food supply chain.
And also to the differentforms of inequality that
workers are experiencing.
And all too often, shamingaround food starts really young.
Really young, because kids arenot taught that there's more
than what they eat at home.
I was just watching a showwhere Alex Guarnaschelli,
(43:35):
she's a white woman whogrew up here in the US.
They're filming in Italy.
And one of the chefs onthe show, it's called Ciao
House, I'll put a link to it.
One of the chefs was Asian andhe was made fun of growing up
because one, he had a funnyname and two, he ate traditional
Asian food for lunch.
And kids would make fun ofhim because it was stinky,
because it was different.
(43:56):
And she, she was nearly intears talking about how she
experienced something similarbecause the Italian food
her mother would send herto school with was also so
different from what the restof her classmates were eating.
She would eat itin the bathroom.
So this isn't just happeningto little brown kids,
poor little brown kids.
This is just happening.
(44:16):
And parents need to do better.
Yes.
Parents, you need to dobetter with your kids and
teach them about diversityso that this stuff doesn't
happen in childhood.
So that we grow up beingwelcoming of stinky food as
opposed to shutting it downand making fun of people.
And then that leads to bullying.
And that's a wholenother systemic problem.
(44:37):
Everything is so interconnected.
Yes.
Yes, yeah, everythingis interconnected
and it's difficult.
I get to answer when otherLatinas reach out, like,
but como le hago, like,how do I talk to my mom
with the food and bodyshaming, but I live at home.
Generally, they're asking me forlike advice or direction and it
(44:59):
really just breaks my heart whenyou're trying to make changes,
when you're trying to unlearn.
And you live in that toxicityat home, and you don't have
a lot of freedom and liberty.
That is definitely a challenge,and the boundaries is important.
When we're talking aboutfood shaming is one disrupt,
(45:20):
calling it out, disrupting it.
But again, it's all abouthow's my mental health?
Do I have the capacity?
Do I have the energy toengage with this family member
or all this other person?
Do I just brush it off?
Do I ignore it?
Do I say a joke?
There's different strategies.
You'll use different strategieswith different people or just
depending on the context,depending on your energy.
So that's an invitation alsofor folks that you don't have
(45:42):
to put up with this shit.
You can set a boundaryand be like respectfully,
especially with our elders.
I will call them out in aloving, compassionate way
or don't say this, don'tsay this because I have
kids, don't say this to mykids, I would appreciate.
Or prep them beforethey see the kids.
It's a lot of emotionallabor involved.
(46:03):
Are we willing, do you havethe capacity to engage in that
emotional labor with loved oneswho you think will respect you?
And respect your decision, andperhaps it may even change.
And there's some elders quenunca van a cambiar, se van
a sentir ofendidos, they'regoing to feel offended.
And you're like, well, whynot do this battle with
this family member, right?
So pick your battles, butknow that you have the
(46:25):
power and agency to set aboundary, and boundaries are
going to look different fordifferent people in your life.
And it's unfortunate.
We, we barely even touchedon the body shaming
and the food shaming.
And we do have to wrap up soon.
So we're going to haveto do this again, Dra.
Jimenez! Yes, another episode.
And this is just another oneof those toxic cultural norms
we take for granted, that wecall people flaca or gordo.
(46:48):
Those are nicknames.
They are treated asterms of affection.
But they're also causingharm, and we really need to
examine that as a society.
As the older generation getsolder and it starts dying off,
no, it's not going to go awaybecause it's been passed down.
So if you're still hearingit, it's on us to say, ya!
(47:09):
Ya basta.
Ya basta.
Yes, ya basta.
Shamelessly plugging in here, Ihave a free resource, is a free
ebook on how to set boundarieson food and body shaming.
You can download it.
It comes from aculturally relevant lens.
So download the resource andsee what you can get from
there that can be helpful.
And I'll be more than happyto come back and talk more
(47:32):
about this because it's soingrained in our families.
The food and body shaming,that we, some folks
don't even question it.
At all.
Yeah.
Or dicen, oh, es que sison las cosas, that's
how things are, but itaffects your mental health.
Yes.
We are going to continuethis conversation.
We will have a link to your freeresources in the show notes.
So Dra.
Jimenez, is there anythingelse we should know about
you or anything else thatyou would like to promote?
(47:54):
Pues, support my workon Instagram, download
my free resource.
And then the last is mypodcast, Dismantling Diet
Culture, Fuck Being Calladita.
And you can support thepodcast by listening to
it, leaving a review.
And also, of course,leave a review here in La
Vida Más Chévere también.
And people think like, why?
Because representation matters.
(48:15):
When we get your review,when we get that star, that
gives us visibility becauseour voices are muted.
They're muted by other,bigger podcasts that
tend to not present thecommunities that we come from.
That's why we're alwayssaying, please leave a review.
Please follow thepodcast, please share it.
Tell a friend.
Si, that's whatallows us to grow.
(48:36):
But that's also how you starthelping other people have that
reframe, that mental shift,that allows them to let go of
those toxic cultural norms.
That's how it starts.
Just by sharing,sharing this episode.
Sharing Dra.
Jimenez's episodes as well.
I'm going to have a link toa couple that we mentioned,
but also go check her out.
(48:56):
And so will youplease wrap us up?
That's a burrito.
Hey, mira, if thisepisode made you feel
some kind of way, dígame!DM me on Instagram,
or send me a text.
You can do that rightfrom your phone.
If you want to be a gueston the show and put your
story out there too, checkout the guest form on my
(49:17):
website at pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Yup, just my name, pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Y no se te olvide quehay más perks when you
join the newsletter.
Todos estos links estánen los show notes.
Muchísimas gracias foryour support y hasta la
próxima vez, cuídate bien.
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