September 17, 2024 • 36 mins
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Ep #72 - In part 1 of a two-part interview, we're diving into an enlightening conversation with Yoreim Virella, a Diásporican, humanitarian, entrepreneur, and content creator.
Yoreim shares her personal journey about growing up in a predominantly Catholic town and navigating societal expectations, including wondering if she should have a child to avoid being "left behind." She has keen insights on the religious impact on motherhood and how those beliefs shape the way women are expected to navigate life after becoming mothers. We unpack the idea that mothers often disappear into their roles, losing a sense of self and identity, and discuss the glaring lack of support for those on the parenting journey.
Is motherhood all it's cracked up to be...or is it a scam?
It’s a thought-provoking episode as we break down stereotypes, celebrate authentic living, and champion the freedom to choose a life that's truly your own. Stay tuned for part two, where we continue this important conversation.
About Yoreim:
Yoreim is originally from Corozal, Puerto Rico and she considers herself a multi-passionate who enjoys combining a practical career with humanitarian work, content creation, and entrepreneurship. She has over a decade of experience in human resources working in the non-profit, private, and federal sectors. While in the federal sector, she had a unique opportunity to merge her human resources expertise with disaster response work. Yoreim has been involved in multiple national disaster and humanitarian missions, from deploying to Puerto Rico during Hurricane Maria to supporting CDC and OMB/White House leadership behind the scenes during the COVID-19 response efforts. She currently serves as the HR lead for her agency, managing a volunteer workforce that supports Departmental or interagency emergencies due to public health or humanitarian crises.
Follow @yorlatinawellness on Tiktok and Threads.
To get the full show notes, guest bio, and an episode transcript, go to PauletteErato.com/shownotes. This is episode 72.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Buen dia, mi gente, and welcometo La Vida Mas Chevere de
Childfree Latinas, the onlySpanglish podcast for childfree
Latinas y Latines, helping usliberate ourselves from the
toxic cultural brainwashing weall grew up with, so that we can
design our best lives instead.
I'm your host andresident childfree
Latina, Paulette Erato.
(00:24):
Mis amigües, what you'reabout to hear is part
one of a two part episodewith guest Yoreim Virella.
It's basically two PuertoRicans talking about being
childfree and other wayswe are nonconformist.
Consider this a warning becausewe are two childless cat ladies
that, in another time period,would have been called witches
(00:45):
and treated as such, so we gota lot of thoughts about that.
And, when two Boricuas starttalking, you can't shut us up.
And, as you might haveguessed, we have some opinions.
We're focusing in this episodeon Yoreim's childfree journey,
which is wildly differentfrom mine, making it so much
more important to share.
(01:06):
Because even if we all endup in the same place of not
wanting kids, for some people,the road to that target is not
as easy and not necessarilya straight shot either.
In this episode, there'sa lot of examining of how
religion influences this, howlittle support there is for
motherhood in our society,despite the societal push for
(01:27):
having children and how itall feels like one big scam.
We mention bingos.
And in case you've neverheard that term, it refers
to the repeated comments thatwe childfree people receive,
such as, who's going to takecare of you when you're old,
or you don't know love untilyou've had a child, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
(01:47):
These phrases are so commonand repeated so often
that it's become a game tosee if you can check them
all off your bingo card.
I did a Substack post aboutthis, which I'll link to in
the show notes, and you cansign up for the Substack
newsletter while you're there.
Also, if you would like to shareyour childfree story on this
show, you'll find a link forthat in the show notes as well.
(02:09):
I would love to hearyour story and share it
on La Vida Más Chévere.
Back to Yoreim.
Let me tell you alittle bit about her.
Yoreim is originally fromCorozal, Puerto Rico.
And she considers herself amulti passionate who enjoys
combining a practical careerwith humanitarian work, content
creation, and entrepreneurship.
(02:30):
She has over a decade ofexperience in human resources,
working in non profit,private, and federal sectors.
While in the federalsector, she's had a unique
opportunity to merge herhuman resources expertise
with disaster response work.
Yoreim has been involved inmultiple national disaster
and humanitarian missions,from deploying to Puerto Rico
during Hurricane Maria, tosupporting the CDC and OMB
(02:53):
slash the White House leadershipbehind the scenes during the
COVID 19 response efforts.
She currently serves as the HRlead for her agency, where she's
managing a volunteer workforcethat supports departmental
or interagency emergenciesthat are due to public health
or humanitarian crises.
In 2022, she launched ProyectoTributo a Mi Tierra, TAMT,
(03:16):
with her husband, a smallbusiness creating sustainable
products like non toxic candlesand 3D printed earrings that
celebrate Puerto Rican culture.
Proyecto TAMT also donates 10percent of all its profits to
Puerto Rican organizations.
Besides being a proud Latinasmall business owner, Yoreim is
also a wellness and lifestylecontent creator in the DMV area.
(03:39):
She enjoys traveling, crafting,and trying new restaurants.
And honestly, she's justreally freaking cool.
So let's go getto know her more.
Yoreim, como estas?
Bien, bien, como estas tu?
Todo bien?
Bien, bien.
I'm excited.
Thank you so much forhaving me for sure.
Yeah, I know.
This is going to be great.
(03:59):
You are a TikTok sensation.
We know that.
Okay.
I'm not going to fight it.
I appreciate the compliments.
You don't have to goviral to be important.
That's actually,that's very true.
I fight for thoseideas all the time.
That's very true.
Yeah.
So you're here today totalk about being a childfree
(04:20):
Latina and what that lookslike, because life is good.
Yes.
Life is good.
And we're going to talk aboutsome misconceptions around being
childfree as a Latina and alsohow our culture reacts to that.
Let's jump in.
What, what brought youto being childfree?
Did you always know?
What was the conversationlike with your husband?
(04:42):
Give us all the tea.
Okay.
So I, it was never clear forme if I wanted to be childfree.
Like, I was going tolive the life, like the
majority of my friends.
It was like, we're gonnahave babies after 30,
that was like, the age.
Things have changed, but I comefrom a very, very small town in
Puerto Rico, yeah, that is 80percent Catholic, so the way of
(05:06):
life, it's very similar, right?
Like, you get educated,you get married, and then
you have children, and youget lost in motherhood.
That's just the way youget domesticated to be.
So I feel even thoughit's like, yeah, I mean,
I would be a good mom.
I think when I hit my thirties,I felt obviously pressure just
(05:27):
because some of my friendsstarted having babies, right?
And there was this disconnectionthat started happening with
my friends that were moms andthe ones that stayed behind
without children, right?
Like they're busy.
For them, it's like theirchildren are their entire
life, but almost like some ofour friends that decided not
to have children were like, Imean, do I even want to do this?
(05:50):
Because it lookedlike a lot of work.
But it also came about whenI was kind of going back and
forth with it when I startedreally questioning it because
I do have health issues.
So I've been suffering from anautoimmune disease since I'm 24.
As you grow older, Ihave flares coming back.
There are stages of mylife that I feel great
(06:11):
and there are stages thatI don't feel that great.
And obviously I have a greathealth insurance over here,
a great job, and even withthat, the level of care I have
received has not been great.
I feel like becoming a motherwould have put a burden
in a sense of, and I knowbabies are not burdens, but
(06:31):
for me it would have beenan extra stress to my life.
And that's when Istarted questioning.
And even to the point, I'm goingto be very vulnerable here.
When you start seeing yourfriends having babies and
you stay behind not havingbabies and almost there's
this pressure that you feellike if I don't have babies,
I might not be included.
Or stay connectedwith those people.
(06:53):
And to the point that Ifelt like, ah, maybe I
just need to have babiesbecause I want to be.
But these are thethings that you think.
And I feel like we don'tdiscuss this a lot.
And then obviously Itook myself a pep talk.
I'm like, come on, likeyou're better than this.
Like you have to livelike who you are.
I think it became clearthat that maternal
instinct wasn't there.
(07:15):
And I'm like, I thinkI'm gravitating towards
not having children.
And then when my husband andmyself discussed it, he was
almost like in that same page,just because I, we are in a
stage of the world where Ifeel there's not a support
for motherhood in general.
This culture and society, theylove telling you, oh well,
(07:37):
you have to have children, youhave to procreate, this is what
you have to do as a female.
But at the same time,there's no government
help, there's no support.
Everything is around thewoman carrying all the burden
while the men go and carryout the successful careers.
And for you to be doing it all,you have to be in this state of
(07:58):
like overdrive with no support.
And I feel like that becameso clear to me that in a sense
I said, maybe this is not mytime to participate in the
system that sees me as a femaleas almost like less than.
And if I have a child,my quality of life will
decline for sure in thataspect, just because I
(08:19):
have other things going on.
And I think that's when itbecame clear that I'm like,
okay, so I think I'm going to dothis childfree thing for sure.
How old were you when,when it became very clear?
I think 34.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
34.
How long had you been datingyour husband at that point?
Oh my God.
So we've been datingsince college.
(08:41):
Oh, okay.
We've been together 20 somethingyears and we've been married
is almost 15 years now in June,but we've been together forever.
So yeah, I think we have thislevel of comfort because we've
been together for so long,these deeper conversations
are easier to have.
Yeah.
His values and mineare so aligned.
(09:02):
He's my person intellectually,and we can kind of talk about
these deeper conversations.
And I think that's wherewe're almost like met
each other at that time.
So there was no pushback,if that makes sense.
That's beautiful.
Did you get pushbackfrom your family?
It's interesting.
My mother in law and my momhave been very supportive of
(09:23):
our choices because we've alwaysbeen kind of unconventional,
if that makes sense.
And I think because we'vealways been like that.
When I say unconventional,I think I mentioned I come
from a very small town.
We were baptized and we didlike all the Catholic things
that you usually do, allthe sacraments and all that,
(09:43):
because you're in that family,you just have to do it.
That when we decided to getmarried, both of us Catholics,
raised Catholic, we did not wantit to be married in the church.
And obviously that was oneof the pretty much saying
like you don't want to bepart of the family in a way.
Also my grandmother, restin peace, she was directors
(10:04):
of private Catholic schools.
Like she was in it.
I went to Catholic school.
So there's just veryreligious background.
So I remember my mom andshe got a little upset.
But then she let go.
She's like, that's just you.
My mother in law was veryrespectful because she's
just very, she's religious,but she understands there's
(10:25):
different ways of living.
So she was like, this isyour decision and I'm going
to help you guys just dowhatever you want to do.
My grandmother got reallymad at me and stopped talking
to me like for a month,but then she was fine.
She was like dancingall around the wedding.
So it's just funny how,it's just this tantrum and
then it just went back.
So she got upset, butshe was fine after.
(10:46):
So I think because we've alwaysbeen kind of doing our own
thing, uh, I don't feel we geta lot of, at least to our face.
Oh, you shouldn't be doing this.
You should have babies.
I'm not sure whathappens behind doors.
I don't care.
As long as you're not tellingme the rest, I'm fine.
That's great.
I mean, that's obviously thebetter outcome than the way
(11:07):
it could have gone, right?
Like, I'm sure you may haveexpected some pushback,
but that's wonderful.
And pretty progressive,especially for your mother in
law, who is just like, Okay, Idon't need grandkids from you.
Well, I mean, like I said,like, she doesn't tell me
and I don't think she's evermade any comments, those past
aggressive comments that youmay get from family members.
(11:28):
The bingos?
I have not gotten from,from my, obviously my
nucleus, this family, theones that I'm very close to.
I've gotten more fromstrangers and friends,
which is so out of, yeah.
Isn't that funny that peoplewe don't know and whose
lives are not affected byus feel that they have the
(11:52):
right to question us as ifthey're gonna change our mind.
I don't know, man.
Tell me if this is true for you.
Anytime I have been confrontedwith those really weird comments
and like the bingos, let's behonest, that's what they are.
There has always been someoneelse that jumps in and
makes the argument for me.
(12:13):
And I feel very fortunate tohave those people just around.
Where the allies, for lack of abetter term, exist, and I know
that's not true for everyone.
And because of our culturalbackground, because Latinos
tend to be very religious andconservative, it's surprising
(12:36):
when we don't get the pushback,but I think like you, my
parents were used to mebeing unconventional as well.
I think that really playslike when you're a certain
way, people, maybe they try tosocialize you in a certain way.
And it's like, you know what?
I give up.
That's just who she is.
Which is fine because you,you shown who you are, right?
(12:57):
Like you've been veryexpressive of your values,
what you stand for.
So I think to the pointpeople start respecting that.
So I'm glad to hearthat too, for sure.
Yeah.
Are you the first childfreeperson in your family?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Okay.
See, cause I'm not.
No really?
Okay..
No, I'm not.
And I have, I have familyon both sides, on the Puerto
(13:20):
Rican side and the Mexican sidethat did not have children.
You are the trailblazer foryour family and you feel like
you're not doing anything right.
But you're sitting heresetting the example for
other possibilities.
It's interesting because Idefinitely don't consider myself
that, but I do know that mecreating space and talking about
(13:43):
this more because it used tobe, obviously, I'm very proud of
being able to stand my ground onand live my life authentically.
But also it's weird because whenyou decide to go childfree, your
mere existence triggers people.
Oh yeah.
It doesn't matter what you do.
(14:03):
Like you can be quiet,calladita, people
will still get upset.
Like just by existing.
I work in human resources,so I have been trained
to be diplomatic in theway I deliver messages.
So I do consider a lotof people's feelings
when I discuss things.
So there are certain thingsI don't like to discuss in
the open, just because Idon't want to trigger and
all that, but I'm like, justme existing triggers people.
(14:26):
Might as well just be openon how I live my life and
maybe I can inspire someonewho's struggling right now
who needs to listen to thesestories, if that makes sense.
So, I've been a little moreupfront now about it just
because of that reason.
If I can make a social impactin any shape or form, I'll, I'll
be happy to put my face out.
(14:47):
That is exactly why you're here.
So I always say that thisshow is all about presenting
examples for other peopleto see what a life without
children can look like fromthe people actually living it.
We are just examples of adifferent way life can be lived.
So the fact that you are outhere doing it, and, and now
(15:09):
feeling more comfortable beingvocal about it is fantastic.
And that means that we have onemore person that we can look at.
You know, you were partof the non mame lineup.
So there was almost 30other people who are also
just examples of what lifecan look like if you make a
different set of decisions.
(15:30):
And they are decisions thatare available to everyone.
And that is, more thananything, what I want to
provide an audience with.
That your life is notscripted, even though it
feels that way, right?
It feels like we are beingsold a specific way to
be, especially as women.
(15:51):
And hey, there are peoplewho are threatening to
take that all away from us.
So we got to keepfighting the good fight.
But in spite of all of that,there are still people who
believe in this day and age thatwhat we are as people is wrong.
And they are feeding thatto their children and to
their spheres of influence.
But someone in thatsphere of influence might
(16:12):
not agree with that.
And they're going to think,is something wrong with me?
Right! No, here are two womenright now showing you,
especially if you're Latina,that there is nothing
wrong, it's just different.
And you can also behappy and thrive outside
of this expectation.
(16:33):
Absolutely, yes.
It is important for us toshow up, to show there is
different ways of living.
And that can be a veryfulfilling and joyful life.
Life is great once yourealize what your boundaries
are, and being childfreeis just a boundary.
It's just a boundary.
And I think that also, evenpeople who are childfree
(16:55):
don't recognize that.
You've laid down a very bigboundary in your life, and
you should be excited aboutthe fact that you were able
to do that, because now youcan set other boundaries.
Because the other thing thatwe have in our Cultura is
people pleasing tendencies.
Yes.
And it's, it's hard to putthose boundaries in place,
(17:15):
but hey, y'all already did.
So congratulations.
Right.
Just being out there doing thisand like you said, like this
boundary and being courageous.
Because it really takes alot of thinking and deeper
conversations to get tothis point, to decide not
to have children, more thanactually having the child.
(17:35):
So yeah, it's a lot of peoplepleasing tendencies that I have
to do a lot of work around too.
So...
Right?
We're all affected.
We're all affectedin our culture about this.
We don't need to beat adead horse, but it's hard
being a woman and it's hardbeing an opinionated woman.
Because it's very easy topaint us as something negative.
(17:58):
What they did to women likeus 400 years ago was drown
them for being witches.
In a different time and place,we would not be able to be
this open about our desires.
And as far as we've come,we need to protect that
for the future generations.
Let me know if youagree with this.
I feel like what I doisn't necessarily just
(18:20):
for me and for you.
It's for anybody who's watchingthis who is growing up.
Yes.
I know I can impact otherpeople's children, not by having
some of my own, but by being,again, an example for them.
I can be a role model.
And that isn't to say I'mtrying to recruit people
to be childfree, althoughit is a nice way to live.
(18:44):
I'm just trying toprovide you context.
Yes, I totally agree with that.
And there's a lot of peoplethat feel isolated, especially
when they're debating onhaving children or not.
And if we're not out thereshowing that we have these
amazing life and we'vemade the right decisions,
they will continue tofeel isolated and alone.
(19:06):
And who knows whatcan happen, right?
Because isolation and lonelinesswill drive you to do other
things that are pretty negative.
So I think it's important toshowcase very strong women that
are making their own decisions,are living by their own values.
So we are these role modelsand inspire the next generation
to take courage and be okaywith the decisions they make.
(19:29):
Because they're alwaysgoing to be allies around
them, even though It doesn'tfeel like that sometimes.
So yeah I'm with you.
The most important takeawayI'd want somebody listening
to this conversation to haveis that if you are feeling
lonely, we've all kind of beenthere at one point or another.
I'm sure when you weregoing through your diagnosis
journey, that was scary andlonely because you couldn't
(19:51):
figure out what was going on.
I've been through adiagnosis journey as well.
And that was, there weredays where I was terrified.
But I was never terrified ofbeing alone for being childfree.
And there was a certainfreedom in that.
And it was like, one less thingto worry about in my life.
I was like, no boundaries there.
I don't, I don't have to worryabout what's on the other side
(20:13):
of it because I live over here.
Like we were saying before,having boundaries it was
one of the best ways toliberate yourself of societal
expectations or toxicnorms or toxic traditions.
Because lots of people havemade decisions that they
later regret, all becausethey thought they were
supposed to do this this way.
(20:34):
Yes.
Mm hmm.
And I don't havethose regrets, really.
Because I learned myselfand I learned how to
put down boundaries.
How do you feelabout boundaries?
Boundaries are very,very important.
There's a pattern that I'veseen around friends, family,
strangers, and it's that alot of people are not living
their lives they want to live.
(20:56):
So you see very often doublelives happening because of
that resentment, bitterness.
There's a lot ofpassive aggressiveness
because they're not.
Living authentically.
Because they are afraid,like we say in Spanish,
"por el que diran."That's very normal, especially
in our Latin community.
(21:18):
It's el que diran, whatwould she say about me if
I do something different?
Boundaries are not reinforcedin that, in that aspect.
Plus, religion plays sucha huge role in how we, as
Latinos, really expressourselves in the world.
And I think boundariesare one of the, the best
things you should work on,in order to live the life
(21:42):
you always wanted to live.
So I think that'ssuper important.
And kind of breaking downthose barriers in order
to be just yourself and behappy what you choose or the
life that you chose to live.
If that makes sense.
And you don't have to be worriedabout being drowned as a witch.
Yeah.
That's important.
(22:02):
Not yet, anyway.
Hopefully never.
We don't want to go backto those times, please.
No.
No.
Let's put it out there nowthat we are going to continue
progressing, not regressing.
Right.
You said you wanted to talkabout some misconceptions
about your childfree life.
Why don't you tell me some ofthe ones that you encounter?
(22:23):
Oh, I think the feeling thatI see when a lot of people
is like they feel bad when wedon't have kids because they
feel we're lonely and thatour life doesn't have meaning.
So there's this assumptionthat when you don't have kids,
it's like, oh, I mean, if youcannot have this big purpose or
(22:45):
divinely order thing happeningfor you, you're definitely not
happy because how could you be?
And it's completely false.
I mean, I know so many peoplethat are thriving in they're
childfree selection or lifestyleand you can absolutely live a
very fulfilling life and a veryjoyful life being childfree.
(23:06):
So it's just alwaysvery interesting to me
that people just makethat assumption of you.
You're just lonely.
When I was growing up, itwas always like if there was
this woman who was singleor a woman who didn't have
children and let's say theperson was bitter because
remember we can be betterwith kids and without kids.
I'm not sure why everyoneis putting that in just
(23:27):
the childfree community.
So if the person was bitterit was like always like
when she's not married,she doesn't have kids.
So these stereotypes thatare very pervasive and this
is what you pass down tokids that are growing up
absorbing this information.
And this is how they literallyselect all these opinions and
(23:47):
the way they're socialized inorder to see the world, right?
So everything peoplesay to us, especially
kids, will be absorbed.
It's hard not to say sometimeswhen you're like in your early
twenties or a teenager that thisis who you are because in order
to know who you are, you needto deconstruct and that takes a
(24:09):
lot of time and self awareness.
And that's why life experiencewisdom contributes to seeing
life in a different way.
So yeah, the misconceptionof loneliness and not
having a meaningful life.
And that our lifeare not important.
Yeah.
That I've noticed too, thata lot of people do things
that are not conscious.
That's all, because they don'thave time to think or they don't
(24:31):
want to think about things.
And sometimes I feel in womenthat have children, they
feel there's this almostsuperiority complex that comes
or feeling they're mothers andthey have the title mothers.
And when you don't have thattitle, so it's like, you're
less in the totem pole.
(24:52):
Because children give socialcapital and there's this
automatic way of seeing a momand dad as more empathic and
compassionate and ultimatelysaying they're a good human
being even if they're notbecause the stereotype is
that if you have childrenyou must be someone good.
Which is completely false, andwe see this over and over again.
(25:14):
So it's just interesting howI'm able to see different
perspectives, but yeah, I justfeel like the loneliness, the
meaningless life, and feelinglike there's more importance
because of the title ofparents, it is what I see a lot.
When we, a lot of us, aredoing amazing work that is
very socially impactful.
(25:35):
So, maybe we don't havechildren, but in a way, we
are almost like mothers toother people and strangers,
because you are guiding themor just sharing your wisdom.
That's part of being fullof motherly love, right?
The way we see it.
So I feel like we have thoseroles in different capacities.
You don't have to have a childto be an amazing human being and
(25:57):
to create impact in the world.
My favorite thing to tellreligious people when they
look down on people nothaving children, Jesus
didn't have children.
Your Lord and Savior didn'thave time to have children.
He was out rabble rousing.
Right?
Yeah.
We don't know if he actuallydid or didn't, but the story
(26:18):
that has been passed on, thetradition of it is that no,
he did not have children.
So it's, it's interestingthat if he did, they were
written out of history.
Of course.
Please make senseof that for me.
How does that make sense?
If children are the ultimategoal and being a parent, like
(26:38):
you said, it's a status symbol.
Yeah.
Why, if Jesus had kids,do we not know about them?
They're this like dirty secret.
So I would love to havethat debate on this show.
Obviously, organizedreligion has a lot to do and
how our Latin communitiesview the family structure.
If you go to the ChristianBible, it's specifically,
(27:01):
everything is centered aboutGod or Jesus, very male centric.
All of the importantsymbols in the Bible
were men, 12 disciples.
And we talk about one of themost important spots, the
connection between God andthe Normies, is priesthood.
And it was only allowed men toserve for a long, long time.
(27:25):
So we have a very patriarchalreligion that is very ingrained
in how we view things.
So I feel because womenalso have been shown
in a very supportiverole inside the Bible.
And the Virgin Mary is theexample and the epitome of what
(27:45):
a good woman should be, right?
And what a good mother shouldbe, that it has influenced
Uh, the man needs to bethe head of the household.
And I think I mentioned thisbefore, because Virgin Mary
is such a role model in ourLatin community, it also brings
(28:05):
to the point that it's likewomen, you're here to support
your husband because there's somany verses of the Bible that
says this over and over again.
You're a supportive role,you're not the main character.
I'm the main character,right, like Jesus, God
is the main character.
But you are the supportiverole, you're the woman,
and you're here to serveme, serve men, and actually
(28:29):
procreate, because that's yourjob, to bring me children.
And that's why I feel like it'sso hard, because of Catholicism,
and I think I saw some datathe other day, and I need to
check the sources for sure.
53 percent of householdsare still inside the Latin
community, do proclaimthemselves as Catholics.
(28:49):
So it's pretty high.
It has been declining thoughfor the last couple of years.
There's a lot of peopledoing more conscious work
and deconstructing, butit's still pretty high.
And it still permeatesinside our culture.
And I feel like that'sone of the reasons.
I know there's a lot ofnew people coming out,
especially in the Latinacommunity that are childfree.
(29:10):
They have platformsto talk about this.
But it's not as normal like wesee in other cultures because
of the issue with religion.
So I think that it's hardto have those conversations
because it feels likeit's divinely ordered.
Like if you have, you'rehere to have children
and it's not a choice, soyou cannot question it.
(29:31):
Like, everything in the Bible.
You cannot question it.
I remember, obviously,I went through all the
sacraments, remember I wasvery religious, and I remember
asking this really crazyquestion since I was young.
And it was always about,like, you cannot question God,
like, it's just what it is.
So this, this is very ingrainedin our family structures,
(29:54):
and I mentioned this before,too, but It's seen saintly,
holy to have children.
To the point that it's like, ifyou don't have them, then you
cannot be that important, whichI feel like it brings into that
division, which is sad to see.
This division we have insidethe group of childfree
women and women that aremothers, there are people
(30:17):
that get it, but there arepeople that don't get it.
And I think, obviously, inorder to bridge that gap,
because we need understandingin both communities, are
the moms that get it.
And the childfree Latina thatget that part of motherhood.
And the other thing I see a lotis, like, it's so normalized to
almost give yourself completelyand disappear as a human being,
(30:38):
because you now you're a mother.
So you cease to existbecause your whole role
is just being a mother.
So if you want somethingmore, it's frowned upon.
That's why a lot of people,especially mothers struggling
with this culture that don'tsupport them, struggle saying
out loud, "Well, I mean, I lovemy children, but the motherhood
(30:59):
experience is not that great.
And it's not the way thatpeople sold it to me."
Because there's extremesway of thinking.
It's like, you say that, youdon't love your children.
That's not true.
You can love your children,but at the same time,
you know how hard it is,because there's no support.
There's no, literally,not support.
(31:19):
I mentioned this too, obviously,social capital, like, children
seen as a social capital, andI feel like other people, um,
hide behind having children.
And I know, personally,a lot of bad parents.
A lot of bad parents.
It's the status symbol.
But people don't saythat out loud, right?
I'm not sure if theythink it's a secret, but
(31:40):
for me it's not a secret.
And I've talked withmany, and we all see it.
So, if they think it'sa secret, I'm not sure
what's going on there.
But it's just this contribution.
And even, a lot of peoplecan say, Ah, well, Yoreim,
I was never that religious.
And I always knew, like,I had to have children.
And what people don't understandis that you don't need to be
(32:01):
super religious to be this way.
Because organizedreligion has influence.
Our policies and our culturalnorms, even if you don't know,
that influence the way yousee certain roles in society.
We all have differentperspectives and how we
were raised and all that,but it's more connected
than we think it is.
(32:21):
So you really don't need tobe in the church every day for
those stereotypes to influencethe way you see the world.
We also see this in movies.
It's everywhere.
The stereotypes areeverywhere and that influences
how we see everything.
Yep, hundred percent.
You are speaking my language.
Obviously, we're on the sameside of this debate, but it's
(32:42):
so true that so many of theways that we see the world
are through this lens ofthis idea that has been sold
since time immemorial thatwomen have this job and men
have this job and God forbidyou want something more.
(33:03):
Or you want something different.
Again, when women wereunconventional in the past,
they were deemed as witches,they were cast out of society.
But back to your major pointhere is that we still push the
ideal as a society on womenthat they need to be mothers,
(33:23):
they need to do this thing.
And give them zerosupport in doing that.
So you're settingpeople up for failure.
Because if the family aroundthem is toxic, what kind
of support are you invitinginto this new human's life?
Yes.
(33:43):
Then that justperpetuates a cycle.
And we want healthy adultsrunning around making decisions
that impact the rest of us.
We don't want brokenadults, people who grew
up in toxic householdsand abusive households.
Making children is a choice.
I wish that every person whodecided to have a child did
(34:07):
the work on themselves firstand healed their own wounds
before bringing a new lifeand starting over with that.
Because all too often, whatI have seen myself, is that
you have people whose woundsmake them bad parents in the
(34:28):
sense that they view theirchildren not only as social
capital, but as, after acertain point, as competition.
Yes.
And that is so disgusting.
And yet they justkeep having children.
They keep making morecompetition for themselves.
And I don't understandthat mentality.
(34:48):
What you're causingis more broken adults.
Yes.
Those people eventuallygrow up to be adults,
and, and, and then what?
You haven't given them thesupport they need to be
fully functioning adults.
And, great if they can goto therapy, but that's not
accessible to everyone.
Oh my god, yes.
I mean, everything you'resaying, this is like topics
(35:11):
that I'm very passionateabout, and I agree 100%.
I do want to addto the discourse...
You can find out whatYoreim wants to add to the
discourse in the next episode.
In the meantime, there are twoother episodes I want to direct
your attention to that echo andcontinue to validate some of
the sentiments that Yoreim andI shared in this conversation.
(35:32):
The first one is number 36, TheDangers of Calladita Se Ve Mas
Bonita with Pam Covarrubias,in which Pam talks about
questioning religion too.
That time was from theMexican perspective, and yet
the questions are the same.
The other is episode 57,Repercussions of Media
Bias on Arabs, Muslims,and the Childfree, with
Professor Evelyn Alsultany,where we discussed how her
(35:55):
book dissects how certainsocietal attitudes impact U.
S.
global policy.
All these links, including theone for Professor Alsultany's
books, are in the show notes.
Till next time, follow Yoreimon her socials, check out
her online shop for ProyectoTAMT, and that's a burrito.
Hey, mira, if thisepisode made you feel
(36:17):
some kind of way, dígame.
Dm me on Instagram,or send me a text.
You can do that rightfrom your phone.
If you want to be a gueston the show and put your
story out there too you,check out the guest form on
my website at pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Yep, just my name, pauletterato.
com slash guest.
(36:38):
Y no se te olvide quehay más perks when you
join the newsletter.
Todos estos links estánen los show notes.
Muchísimas gracias foryour support y hasta la
próxima vez, cuídate bien.
Buen dia, mi gente, and welcometo La Vida Mas Chevere de
Childfree Latinas, the onlySpanglish podcast for childfree
Latinas y Latines, helping usliberate ourselves from the
toxic cultural brainwashing weall grew up with, so that we can
design our best lives instead.
I'm your host andresident childfree
Latina, Paulette Erato.
(00:24):
Mis amigües, what you'reabout to hear is part
one of a two part episodewith guest Yoreim Virella.
It's basically two PuertoRicans talking about being
childfree and other wayswe are nonconformist.
Consider this a warning becausewe are two childless cat ladies
that, in another time period,would have been called witches
(00:45):
and treated as such, so we gota lot of thoughts about that.
And, when two Boricuas starttalking, you can't shut us up.
And, as you might haveguessed, we have some opinions.
We're focusing in this episodeon Yoreim's childfree journey,
which is wildly differentfrom mine, making it so much
more important to share.
(01:06):
Because even if we all endup in the same place of not
wanting kids, for some people,the road to that target is not
as easy and not necessarilya straight shot either.
In this episode, there'sa lot of examining of how
religion influences this, howlittle support there is for
motherhood in our society,despite the societal push for
(01:27):
having children and how itall feels like one big scam.
We mention bingos.
And in case you've neverheard that term, it refers
to the repeated comments thatwe childfree people receive,
such as, who's going to takecare of you when you're old,
or you don't know love untilyou've had a child, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
(01:47):
These phrases are so commonand repeated so often
that it's become a game tosee if you can check them
all off your bingo card.
I did a Substack post aboutthis, which I'll link to in
the show notes, and you cansign up for the Substack
newsletter while you're there.
Also, if you would like to shareyour childfree story on this
show, you'll find a link forthat in the show notes as well.
(02:09):
I would love to hearyour story and share it
on La Vida Más Chévere.
Back to Yoreim.
Let me tell you alittle bit about her.
Yoreim is originally fromCorozal, Puerto Rico.
And she considers herself amulti passionate who enjoys
combining a practical careerwith humanitarian work, content
creation, and entrepreneurship.
(02:30):
She has over a decade ofexperience in human resources,
working in non profit,private, and federal sectors.
While in the federalsector, she's had a unique
opportunity to merge herhuman resources expertise
with disaster response work.
Yoreim has been involved inmultiple national disaster
and humanitarian missions,from deploying to Puerto Rico
during Hurricane Maria, tosupporting the CDC and OMB
(02:53):
slash the White House leadershipbehind the scenes during the
COVID 19 response efforts.
She currently serves as the HRlead for her agency, where she's
managing a volunteer workforcethat supports departmental
or interagency emergenciesthat are due to public health
or humanitarian crises.
In 2022, she launched ProyectoTributo a Mi Tierra, TAMT,
(03:16):
with her husband, a smallbusiness creating sustainable
products like non toxic candlesand 3D printed earrings that
celebrate Puerto Rican culture.
Proyecto TAMT also donates 10percent of all its profits to
Puerto Rican organizations.
Besides being a proud Latinasmall business owner, Yoreim is
also a wellness and lifestylecontent creator in the DMV area.
(03:39):
She enjoys traveling, crafting,and trying new restaurants.
And honestly, she's justreally freaking cool.
So let's go getto know her more.
Yoreim, como estas?
Bien, bien, como estas tu?
Todo bien?
Bien, bien.
I'm excited.
Thank you so much forhaving me for sure.
Yeah, I know.
This is going to be great.
(03:59):
You are a TikTok sensation.
We know that.
Okay.
I'm not going to fight it.
I appreciate the compliments.
You don't have to goviral to be important.
That's actually,that's very true.
I fight for thoseideas all the time.
That's very true.
Yeah.
So you're here today totalk about being a childfree
(04:20):
Latina and what that lookslike, because life is good.
Yes.
Life is good.
And we're going to talk aboutsome misconceptions around being
childfree as a Latina and alsohow our culture reacts to that.
Let's jump in.
What, what brought youto being childfree?
Did you always know?
What was the conversationlike with your husband?
(04:42):
Give us all the tea.
Okay.
So I, it was never clear forme if I wanted to be childfree.
Like, I was going tolive the life, like the
majority of my friends.
It was like, we're gonnahave babies after 30,
that was like, the age.
Things have changed, but I comefrom a very, very small town in
Puerto Rico, yeah, that is 80percent Catholic, so the way of
(05:06):
life, it's very similar, right?
Like, you get educated,you get married, and then
you have children, and youget lost in motherhood.
That's just the way youget domesticated to be.
So I feel even thoughit's like, yeah, I mean,
I would be a good mom.
I think when I hit my thirties,I felt obviously pressure just
(05:27):
because some of my friendsstarted having babies, right?
And there was this disconnectionthat started happening with
my friends that were moms andthe ones that stayed behind
without children, right?
Like they're busy.
For them, it's like theirchildren are their entire
life, but almost like some ofour friends that decided not
to have children were like, Imean, do I even want to do this?
(05:50):
Because it lookedlike a lot of work.
But it also came about whenI was kind of going back and
forth with it when I startedreally questioning it because
I do have health issues.
So I've been suffering from anautoimmune disease since I'm 24.
As you grow older, Ihave flares coming back.
There are stages of mylife that I feel great
(06:11):
and there are stages thatI don't feel that great.
And obviously I have a greathealth insurance over here,
a great job, and even withthat, the level of care I have
received has not been great.
I feel like becoming a motherwould have put a burden
in a sense of, and I knowbabies are not burdens, but
(06:31):
for me it would have beenan extra stress to my life.
And that's when Istarted questioning.
And even to the point, I'm goingto be very vulnerable here.
When you start seeing yourfriends having babies and
you stay behind not havingbabies and almost there's
this pressure that you feellike if I don't have babies,
I might not be included.
Or stay connectedwith those people.
(06:53):
And to the point that Ifelt like, ah, maybe I
just need to have babiesbecause I want to be.
But these are thethings that you think.
And I feel like we don'tdiscuss this a lot.
And then obviously Itook myself a pep talk.
I'm like, come on, likeyou're better than this.
Like you have to livelike who you are.
I think it became clearthat that maternal
instinct wasn't there.
(07:15):
And I'm like, I thinkI'm gravitating towards
not having children.
And then when my husband andmyself discussed it, he was
almost like in that same page,just because I, we are in a
stage of the world where Ifeel there's not a support
for motherhood in general.
This culture and society, theylove telling you, oh well,
(07:37):
you have to have children, youhave to procreate, this is what
you have to do as a female.
But at the same time,there's no government
help, there's no support.
Everything is around thewoman carrying all the burden
while the men go and carryout the successful careers.
And for you to be doing it all,you have to be in this state of
(07:58):
like overdrive with no support.
And I feel like that becameso clear to me that in a sense
I said, maybe this is not mytime to participate in the
system that sees me as a femaleas almost like less than.
And if I have a child,my quality of life will
decline for sure in thataspect, just because I
(08:19):
have other things going on.
And I think that's when itbecame clear that I'm like,
okay, so I think I'm going to dothis childfree thing for sure.
How old were you when,when it became very clear?
I think 34.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
34.
How long had you been datingyour husband at that point?
Oh my God.
So we've been datingsince college.
(08:41):
Oh, okay.
We've been together 20 somethingyears and we've been married
is almost 15 years now in June,but we've been together forever.
So yeah, I think we have thislevel of comfort because we've
been together for so long,these deeper conversations
are easier to have.
Yeah.
His values and mineare so aligned.
(09:02):
He's my person intellectually,and we can kind of talk about
these deeper conversations.
And I think that's wherewe're almost like met
each other at that time.
So there was no pushback,if that makes sense.
That's beautiful.
Did you get pushbackfrom your family?
It's interesting.
My mother in law and my momhave been very supportive of
(09:23):
our choices because we've alwaysbeen kind of unconventional,
if that makes sense.
And I think because we'vealways been like that.
When I say unconventional,I think I mentioned I come
from a very small town.
We were baptized and we didlike all the Catholic things
that you usually do, allthe sacraments and all that,
(09:43):
because you're in that family,you just have to do it.
That when we decided to getmarried, both of us Catholics,
raised Catholic, we did not wantit to be married in the church.
And obviously that was oneof the pretty much saying
like you don't want to bepart of the family in a way.
Also my grandmother, restin peace, she was directors
(10:04):
of private Catholic schools.
Like she was in it.
I went to Catholic school.
So there's just veryreligious background.
So I remember my mom andshe got a little upset.
But then she let go.
She's like, that's just you.
My mother in law was veryrespectful because she's
just very, she's religious,but she understands there's
(10:25):
different ways of living.
So she was like, this isyour decision and I'm going
to help you guys just dowhatever you want to do.
My grandmother got reallymad at me and stopped talking
to me like for a month,but then she was fine.
She was like dancingall around the wedding.
So it's just funny how,it's just this tantrum and
then it just went back.
So she got upset, butshe was fine after.
(10:46):
So I think because we've alwaysbeen kind of doing our own
thing, uh, I don't feel we geta lot of, at least to our face.
Oh, you shouldn't be doing this.
You should have babies.
I'm not sure whathappens behind doors.
I don't care.
As long as you're not tellingme the rest, I'm fine.
That's great.
I mean, that's obviously thebetter outcome than the way
(11:07):
it could have gone, right?
Like, I'm sure you may haveexpected some pushback,
but that's wonderful.
And pretty progressive,especially for your mother in
law, who is just like, Okay, Idon't need grandkids from you.
Well, I mean, like I said,like, she doesn't tell me
and I don't think she's evermade any comments, those past
aggressive comments that youmay get from family members.
(11:28):
The bingos?
I have not gotten from,from my, obviously my
nucleus, this family, theones that I'm very close to.
I've gotten more fromstrangers and friends,
which is so out of, yeah.
Isn't that funny that peoplewe don't know and whose
lives are not affected byus feel that they have the
(11:52):
right to question us as ifthey're gonna change our mind.
I don't know, man.
Tell me if this is true for you.
Anytime I have been confrontedwith those really weird comments
and like the bingos, let's behonest, that's what they are.
There has always been someoneelse that jumps in and
makes the argument for me.
(12:13):
And I feel very fortunate tohave those people just around.
Where the allies, for lack of abetter term, exist, and I know
that's not true for everyone.
And because of our culturalbackground, because Latinos
tend to be very religious andconservative, it's surprising
(12:36):
when we don't get the pushback,but I think like you, my
parents were used to mebeing unconventional as well.
I think that really playslike when you're a certain
way, people, maybe they try tosocialize you in a certain way.
And it's like, you know what?
I give up.
That's just who she is.
Which is fine because you,you shown who you are, right?
(12:57):
Like you've been veryexpressive of your values,
what you stand for.
So I think to the pointpeople start respecting that.
So I'm glad to hearthat too, for sure.
Yeah.
Are you the first childfreeperson in your family?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Okay.
See, cause I'm not.
No really?
Okay..
No, I'm not.
And I have, I have familyon both sides, on the Puerto
(13:20):
Rican side and the Mexican sidethat did not have children.
You are the trailblazer foryour family and you feel like
you're not doing anything right.
But you're sitting heresetting the example for
other possibilities.
It's interesting because Idefinitely don't consider myself
that, but I do know that mecreating space and talking about
(13:43):
this more because it used tobe, obviously, I'm very proud of
being able to stand my ground onand live my life authentically.
But also it's weird because whenyou decide to go childfree, your
mere existence triggers people.
Oh yeah.
It doesn't matter what you do.
(14:03):
Like you can be quiet,calladita, people
will still get upset.
Like just by existing.
I work in human resources,so I have been trained
to be diplomatic in theway I deliver messages.
So I do consider a lotof people's feelings
when I discuss things.
So there are certain thingsI don't like to discuss in
the open, just because Idon't want to trigger and
all that, but I'm like, justme existing triggers people.
(14:26):
Might as well just be openon how I live my life and
maybe I can inspire someonewho's struggling right now
who needs to listen to thesestories, if that makes sense.
So, I've been a little moreupfront now about it just
because of that reason.
If I can make a social impactin any shape or form, I'll, I'll
be happy to put my face out.
(14:47):
That is exactly why you're here.
So I always say that thisshow is all about presenting
examples for other peopleto see what a life without
children can look like fromthe people actually living it.
We are just examples of adifferent way life can be lived.
So the fact that you are outhere doing it, and, and now
(15:09):
feeling more comfortable beingvocal about it is fantastic.
And that means that we have onemore person that we can look at.
You know, you were partof the non mame lineup.
So there was almost 30other people who are also
just examples of what lifecan look like if you make a
different set of decisions.
(15:30):
And they are decisions thatare available to everyone.
And that is, more thananything, what I want to
provide an audience with.
That your life is notscripted, even though it
feels that way, right?
It feels like we are beingsold a specific way to
be, especially as women.
(15:51):
And hey, there are peoplewho are threatening to
take that all away from us.
So we got to keepfighting the good fight.
But in spite of all of that,there are still people who
believe in this day and age thatwhat we are as people is wrong.
And they are feeding thatto their children and to
their spheres of influence.
But someone in thatsphere of influence might
(16:12):
not agree with that.
And they're going to think,is something wrong with me?
Right! No, here are two womenright now showing you,
especially if you're Latina,that there is nothing
wrong, it's just different.
And you can also behappy and thrive outside
of this expectation.
(16:33):
Absolutely, yes.
It is important for us toshow up, to show there is
different ways of living.
And that can be a veryfulfilling and joyful life.
Life is great once yourealize what your boundaries
are, and being childfreeis just a boundary.
It's just a boundary.
And I think that also, evenpeople who are childfree
(16:55):
don't recognize that.
You've laid down a very bigboundary in your life, and
you should be excited aboutthe fact that you were able
to do that, because now youcan set other boundaries.
Because the other thing thatwe have in our Cultura is
people pleasing tendencies.
Yes.
And it's, it's hard to putthose boundaries in place,
(17:15):
but hey, y'all already did.
So congratulations.
Right.
Just being out there doing thisand like you said, like this
boundary and being courageous.
Because it really takes alot of thinking and deeper
conversations to get tothis point, to decide not
to have children, more thanactually having the child.
(17:35):
So yeah, it's a lot of peoplepleasing tendencies that I have
to do a lot of work around too.
So...
Right?
We're all affected.
We're all affectedin our culture about this.
We don't need to beat adead horse, but it's hard
being a woman and it's hardbeing an opinionated woman.
Because it's very easy topaint us as something negative.
(17:58):
What they did to women likeus 400 years ago was drown
them for being witches.
In a different time and place,we would not be able to be
this open about our desires.
And as far as we've come,we need to protect that
for the future generations.
Let me know if youagree with this.
I feel like what I doisn't necessarily just
(18:20):
for me and for you.
It's for anybody who's watchingthis who is growing up.
Yes.
I know I can impact otherpeople's children, not by having
some of my own, but by being,again, an example for them.
I can be a role model.
And that isn't to say I'mtrying to recruit people
to be childfree, althoughit is a nice way to live.
(18:44):
I'm just trying toprovide you context.
Yes, I totally agree with that.
And there's a lot of peoplethat feel isolated, especially
when they're debating onhaving children or not.
And if we're not out thereshowing that we have these
amazing life and we'vemade the right decisions,
they will continue tofeel isolated and alone.
(19:06):
And who knows whatcan happen, right?
Because isolation and lonelinesswill drive you to do other
things that are pretty negative.
So I think it's important toshowcase very strong women that
are making their own decisions,are living by their own values.
So we are these role modelsand inspire the next generation
to take courage and be okaywith the decisions they make.
(19:29):
Because they're alwaysgoing to be allies around
them, even though It doesn'tfeel like that sometimes.
So yeah I'm with you.
The most important takeawayI'd want somebody listening
to this conversation to haveis that if you are feeling
lonely, we've all kind of beenthere at one point or another.
I'm sure when you weregoing through your diagnosis
journey, that was scary andlonely because you couldn't
(19:51):
figure out what was going on.
I've been through adiagnosis journey as well.
And that was, there weredays where I was terrified.
But I was never terrified ofbeing alone for being childfree.
And there was a certainfreedom in that.
And it was like, one less thingto worry about in my life.
I was like, no boundaries there.
I don't, I don't have to worryabout what's on the other side
(20:13):
of it because I live over here.
Like we were saying before,having boundaries it was
one of the best ways toliberate yourself of societal
expectations or toxicnorms or toxic traditions.
Because lots of people havemade decisions that they
later regret, all becausethey thought they were
supposed to do this this way.
(20:34):
Yes.
Mm hmm.
And I don't havethose regrets, really.
Because I learned myselfand I learned how to
put down boundaries.
How do you feelabout boundaries?
Boundaries are very,very important.
There's a pattern that I'veseen around friends, family,
strangers, and it's that alot of people are not living
their lives they want to live.
(20:56):
So you see very often doublelives happening because of
that resentment, bitterness.
There's a lot ofpassive aggressiveness
because they're not.
Living authentically.
Because they are afraid,like we say in Spanish,
"por el que diran."That's very normal, especially
in our Latin community.
(21:18):
It's el que diran, whatwould she say about me if
I do something different?
Boundaries are not reinforcedin that, in that aspect.
Plus, religion plays sucha huge role in how we, as
Latinos, really expressourselves in the world.
And I think boundariesare one of the, the best
things you should work on,in order to live the life
(21:42):
you always wanted to live.
So I think that'ssuper important.
And kind of breaking downthose barriers in order
to be just yourself and behappy what you choose or the
life that you chose to live.
If that makes sense.
And you don't have to be worriedabout being drowned as a witch.
Yeah.
That's important.
(22:02):
Not yet, anyway.
Hopefully never.
We don't want to go backto those times, please.
No.
No.
Let's put it out there nowthat we are going to continue
progressing, not regressing.
Right.
You said you wanted to talkabout some misconceptions
about your childfree life.
Why don't you tell me some ofthe ones that you encounter?
(22:23):
Oh, I think the feeling thatI see when a lot of people
is like they feel bad when wedon't have kids because they
feel we're lonely and thatour life doesn't have meaning.
So there's this assumptionthat when you don't have kids,
it's like, oh, I mean, if youcannot have this big purpose or
(22:45):
divinely order thing happeningfor you, you're definitely not
happy because how could you be?
And it's completely false.
I mean, I know so many peoplethat are thriving in they're
childfree selection or lifestyleand you can absolutely live a
very fulfilling life and a veryjoyful life being childfree.
(23:06):
So it's just alwaysvery interesting to me
that people just makethat assumption of you.
You're just lonely.
When I was growing up, itwas always like if there was
this woman who was singleor a woman who didn't have
children and let's say theperson was bitter because
remember we can be betterwith kids and without kids.
I'm not sure why everyoneis putting that in just
(23:27):
the childfree community.
So if the person was bitterit was like always like
when she's not married,she doesn't have kids.
So these stereotypes thatare very pervasive and this
is what you pass down tokids that are growing up
absorbing this information.
And this is how they literallyselect all these opinions and
(23:47):
the way they're socialized inorder to see the world, right?
So everything peoplesay to us, especially
kids, will be absorbed.
It's hard not to say sometimeswhen you're like in your early
twenties or a teenager that thisis who you are because in order
to know who you are, you needto deconstruct and that takes a
(24:09):
lot of time and self awareness.
And that's why life experiencewisdom contributes to seeing
life in a different way.
So yeah, the misconceptionof loneliness and not
having a meaningful life.
And that our lifeare not important.
Yeah.
That I've noticed too, thata lot of people do things
that are not conscious.
That's all, because they don'thave time to think or they don't
(24:31):
want to think about things.
And sometimes I feel in womenthat have children, they
feel there's this almostsuperiority complex that comes
or feeling they're mothers andthey have the title mothers.
And when you don't have thattitle, so it's like, you're
less in the totem pole.
(24:52):
Because children give socialcapital and there's this
automatic way of seeing a momand dad as more empathic and
compassionate and ultimatelysaying they're a good human
being even if they're notbecause the stereotype is
that if you have childrenyou must be someone good.
Which is completely false, andwe see this over and over again.
(25:14):
So it's just interesting howI'm able to see different
perspectives, but yeah, I justfeel like the loneliness, the
meaningless life, and feelinglike there's more importance
because of the title ofparents, it is what I see a lot.
When we, a lot of us, aredoing amazing work that is
very socially impactful.
(25:35):
So, maybe we don't havechildren, but in a way, we
are almost like mothers toother people and strangers,
because you are guiding themor just sharing your wisdom.
That's part of being fullof motherly love, right?
The way we see it.
So I feel like we have thoseroles in different capacities.
You don't have to have a childto be an amazing human being and
(25:57):
to create impact in the world.
My favorite thing to tellreligious people when they
look down on people nothaving children, Jesus
didn't have children.
Your Lord and Savior didn'thave time to have children.
He was out rabble rousing.
Right?
Yeah.
We don't know if he actuallydid or didn't, but the story
(26:18):
that has been passed on, thetradition of it is that no,
he did not have children.
So it's, it's interestingthat if he did, they were
written out of history.
Of course.
Please make senseof that for me.
How does that make sense?
If children are the ultimategoal and being a parent, like
(26:38):
you said, it's a status symbol.
Yeah.
Why, if Jesus had kids,do we not know about them?
They're this like dirty secret.
So I would love to havethat debate on this show.
Obviously, organizedreligion has a lot to do and
how our Latin communitiesview the family structure.
If you go to the ChristianBible, it's specifically,
(27:01):
everything is centered aboutGod or Jesus, very male centric.
All of the importantsymbols in the Bible
were men, 12 disciples.
And we talk about one of themost important spots, the
connection between God andthe Normies, is priesthood.
And it was only allowed men toserve for a long, long time.
(27:25):
So we have a very patriarchalreligion that is very ingrained
in how we view things.
So I feel because womenalso have been shown
in a very supportiverole inside the Bible.
And the Virgin Mary is theexample and the epitome of what
(27:45):
a good woman should be, right?
And what a good mother shouldbe, that it has influenced
Uh, the man needs to bethe head of the household.
And I think I mentioned thisbefore, because Virgin Mary
is such a role model in ourLatin community, it also brings
(28:05):
to the point that it's likewomen, you're here to support
your husband because there's somany verses of the Bible that
says this over and over again.
You're a supportive role,you're not the main character.
I'm the main character,right, like Jesus, God
is the main character.
But you are the supportiverole, you're the woman,
and you're here to serveme, serve men, and actually
(28:29):
procreate, because that's yourjob, to bring me children.
And that's why I feel like it'sso hard, because of Catholicism,
and I think I saw some datathe other day, and I need to
check the sources for sure.
53 percent of householdsare still inside the Latin
community, do proclaimthemselves as Catholics.
(28:49):
So it's pretty high.
It has been declining thoughfor the last couple of years.
There's a lot of peopledoing more conscious work
and deconstructing, butit's still pretty high.
And it still permeatesinside our culture.
And I feel like that'sone of the reasons.
I know there's a lot ofnew people coming out,
especially in the Latinacommunity that are childfree.
(29:10):
They have platformsto talk about this.
But it's not as normal like wesee in other cultures because
of the issue with religion.
So I think that it's hardto have those conversations
because it feels likeit's divinely ordered.
Like if you have, you'rehere to have children
and it's not a choice, soyou cannot question it.
(29:31):
Like, everything in the Bible.
You cannot question it.
I remember, obviously,I went through all the
sacraments, remember I wasvery religious, and I remember
asking this really crazyquestion since I was young.
And it was always about,like, you cannot question God,
like, it's just what it is.
So this, this is very ingrainedin our family structures,
(29:54):
and I mentioned this before,too, but It's seen saintly,
holy to have children.
To the point that it's like, ifyou don't have them, then you
cannot be that important, whichI feel like it brings into that
division, which is sad to see.
This division we have insidethe group of childfree
women and women that aremothers, there are people
(30:17):
that get it, but there arepeople that don't get it.
And I think, obviously, inorder to bridge that gap,
because we need understandingin both communities, are
the moms that get it.
And the childfree Latina thatget that part of motherhood.
And the other thing I see a lotis, like, it's so normalized to
almost give yourself completelyand disappear as a human being,
(30:38):
because you now you're a mother.
So you cease to existbecause your whole role
is just being a mother.
So if you want somethingmore, it's frowned upon.
That's why a lot of people,especially mothers struggling
with this culture that don'tsupport them, struggle saying
out loud, "Well, I mean, I lovemy children, but the motherhood
(30:59):
experience is not that great.
And it's not the way thatpeople sold it to me."
Because there's extremesway of thinking.
It's like, you say that, youdon't love your children.
That's not true.
You can love your children,but at the same time,
you know how hard it is,because there's no support.
There's no, literally,not support.
(31:19):
I mentioned this too, obviously,social capital, like, children
seen as a social capital, andI feel like other people, um,
hide behind having children.
And I know, personally,a lot of bad parents.
A lot of bad parents.
It's the status symbol.
But people don't saythat out loud, right?
I'm not sure if theythink it's a secret, but
(31:40):
for me it's not a secret.
And I've talked withmany, and we all see it.
So, if they think it'sa secret, I'm not sure
what's going on there.
But it's just this contribution.
And even, a lot of peoplecan say, Ah, well, Yoreim,
I was never that religious.
And I always knew, like,I had to have children.
And what people don't understandis that you don't need to be
(32:01):
super religious to be this way.
Because organizedreligion has influence.
Our policies and our culturalnorms, even if you don't know,
that influence the way yousee certain roles in society.
We all have differentperspectives and how we
were raised and all that,but it's more connected
than we think it is.
(32:21):
So you really don't need tobe in the church every day for
those stereotypes to influencethe way you see the world.
We also see this in movies.
It's everywhere.
The stereotypes areeverywhere and that influences
how we see everything.
Yep, hundred percent.
You are speaking my language.
Obviously, we're on the sameside of this debate, but it's
(32:42):
so true that so many of theways that we see the world
are through this lens ofthis idea that has been sold
since time immemorial thatwomen have this job and men
have this job and God forbidyou want something more.
(33:03):
Or you want something different.
Again, when women wereunconventional in the past,
they were deemed as witches,they were cast out of society.
But back to your major pointhere is that we still push the
ideal as a society on womenthat they need to be mothers,
(33:23):
they need to do this thing.
And give them zerosupport in doing that.
So you're settingpeople up for failure.
Because if the family aroundthem is toxic, what kind
of support are you invitinginto this new human's life?
Yes.
(33:43):
Then that justperpetuates a cycle.
And we want healthy adultsrunning around making decisions
that impact the rest of us.
We don't want brokenadults, people who grew
up in toxic householdsand abusive households.
Making children is a choice.
I wish that every person whodecided to have a child did
(34:07):
the work on themselves firstand healed their own wounds
before bringing a new lifeand starting over with that.
Because all too often, whatI have seen myself, is that
you have people whose woundsmake them bad parents in the
(34:28):
sense that they view theirchildren not only as social
capital, but as, after acertain point, as competition.
Yes.
And that is so disgusting.
And yet they justkeep having children.
They keep making morecompetition for themselves.
And I don't understandthat mentality.
(34:48):
What you're causingis more broken adults.
Yes.
Those people eventuallygrow up to be adults,
and, and, and then what?
You haven't given them thesupport they need to be
fully functioning adults.
And, great if they can goto therapy, but that's not
accessible to everyone.
Oh my god, yes.
I mean, everything you'resaying, this is like topics
(35:11):
that I'm very passionateabout, and I agree 100%.
I do want to addto the discourse...
You can find out whatYoreim wants to add to the
discourse in the next episode.
In the meantime, there are twoother episodes I want to direct
your attention to that echo andcontinue to validate some of
the sentiments that Yoreim andI shared in this conversation.
(35:32):
The first one is number 36, TheDangers of Calladita Se Ve Mas
Bonita with Pam Covarrubias,in which Pam talks about
questioning religion too.
That time was from theMexican perspective, and yet
the questions are the same.
The other is episode 57,Repercussions of Media
Bias on Arabs, Muslims,and the Childfree, with
Professor Evelyn Alsultany,where we discussed how her
(35:55):
book dissects how certainsocietal attitudes impact U.
S.
global policy.
All these links, including theone for Professor Alsultany's
books, are in the show notes.
Till next time, follow Yoreimon her socials, check out
her online shop for ProyectoTAMT, and that's a burrito.
Hey, mira, if thisepisode made you feel
(36:17):
some kind of way, dígame.
Dm me on Instagram,or send me a text.
You can do that rightfrom your phone.
If you want to be a gueston the show and put your
story out there too you,check out the guest form on
my website at pauletterato.
com slash guest.
Yep, just my name, pauletterato.
com slash guest.
(36:38):
Y no se te olvide quehay más perks when you
join the newsletter.
Todos estos links estánen los show notes.
Muchísimas gracias foryour support y hasta la
próxima vez, cuídate bien.
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