October 11, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode of “Lab Medicine Rounds,” Justin Kreuter, M.D., interviews Reade Quinton, M.D., an associate professor of laboratory medicine and pathology and anatomic pathologist at Mayo Clinic, to discuss interview tips for future pathology residents.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:45 Interviewer assessment
7:07 Communication style & personality
10:25 Asking questions to help with rank lists
17:45 Follow-up after interview
22:09 Outro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
This is Lab Medicine Rounds, acurated podcast for physicians,
laboratory professionals and students.I'm your host, Justin Kreuter,
a transfusion medicine pathologistand assistant professor of laboratory
medicine and pathology at Mayo Clinic.
Today we're roundingwith Dr. Reade Quinton,
an associate professor of laboratorymedicine and pathology and anatomic
pathologist in the Departmentof Laboratory Medicine pathology at Mayo Clinic to
(00:30):
talking about advice onapplying and interviewing for
residency. Thanks for joiningus today, Dr. Quinton.
I am happy to be here again. Dr.Kreuter. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Let's kind of kick off with what are afew things that most interviewers are
probably trying to assessduring those interviews we
(00:52):
have for residency?
Yeah, so there's a lotthat goes on in that,
and I think of course every intervieweris going to be slightly different,
but in general I can give you some basics.
I think one of the things that theapplicants need to remember is that
if you're already inthe interview process,
(01:12):
if you have been invited to an interview,
there's a ton of things we've alreadysort of gotten through and established.
So number one,
we've already seen your scores andhow many publications you have,
where have you presented all theselittle details of the application.
So when I am sitting downduring the interview process,
(01:33):
I'm not really worriedabout that at that point.
It's like you've alreadymade it past that level,
so I'm not necessarily going to sitthere and ask about the granular
details of your USLE scoresor anything like that.
So the first thing that I liketo ask or get a sense of is
just the idea of are they awareof what they're getting into? It's
(01:54):
kind of easy sometimes to establishin their personal statement,
do they really know what they'regetting into if they go into pathology
as a residency program.
But sometimes it's a little unclear andsometimes people have had more or less
exposure in their med school too.
So kind of just chatting with them tosee does this person really understand
(02:19):
what the next four years will entail,
that perhaps maybe they reallylike one thing in pathology,
but do they also know theyhave to do these other things?
So I really like to see do theyknow what they're signing up for?
The other thing I really liketo assess is just in general
(02:39):
communication and personality andare they going to fit well in the
program? Knowing who I have as faculty,
knowing who I have as apool of current residents,
does this person seem likesomebody who would slot in nicely,
get along with everybody and kindof work in that team and you can
gauge your team. My team here is goingto be very different from other programs
(03:02):
teams.
And so just getting a sense ofwho is this person and do they
seem like they would work well withour group is very important to me.
I feel like we can train everything else.
We can teach you the pathology,
but it's more difficult ifyou're not comfortable in
(03:24):
the environment.
We want to make sure that the traineesare in the best environment for them
so that they're successful.And then finally,
sort of the third thing I love toask about and a lot of us do is
it is a little bit like that idea ofdo you know what you're getting into?
But really it's what are yourgoals moving forward? Now,
(03:46):
some of our applicants don't knowyet, and they are, as we like to say,
in pathology,
they're undifferentiated. They don'tknow exactly what they may want to
specialize in yet, and that'sperfectly fine and valid.
And knowing that upfront kind ofchanges the discussion somewhat too.
Other people though have verydistinct needs and goals as
(04:08):
far as maybe they're veryheavily interested in research,
maybe they're heavily interestedin educational opportunities.
Maybe they already know I'm absolutelygoing to go into transfusion medicine,
so I want to target this type of program.
And so knowing that upfront can helpus guide that person as far as would
(04:28):
this program a good fit foryou? So if somebody says,
I absolutely want todo pediatric pathology,
they might be a great applicant,but in my program here,
we don't have a dedicated children'shospital that they would rotate through.
So we might have a discussion of, well,
here's all the amazingresources and things that we could provide here. However,
(04:51):
let's talk about that a little bit morebecause there may be other opportunities
that are better for you.And that being said,
I don't believe you should ever targeta residency based on exactly what you
want to do for fellowship.So for instance,
we don't have a forensic fellowship here,
but we have an amazing experience forpeople who want to go into forensic
(05:14):
pathology.
So I don't think the applicants need tonecessarily target a residency training
program at that level,
but having those discussions about dothey know what they want to do in the
longterm can really help us focus on,
okay, great. If that's important to you,
let's talk about the opportunitieshere and how we might be able to guide
(05:38):
you through that process.
I think that's really wonderful tohighlight for listeners who might be
interviewing this year in future years,
this idea that the interviewis also looking out for them in
the sense of might we bethe right program for you?
Or maybe even highlight for them,
(05:58):
maybe some weaknessesthat our program has,
which might highlight for questionsthat they have for other interviews that
they go through.
So it really is kind of acollaborative experience
rather than, I think sometimeswhen you're interviewing,
you kind of feel like you're trying toswim upstream and it's just you versus
the world.
(06:20):
Exactly.
I think it's just as importantto us that we get not only
great residents, but we wantthem to be happy and successful.
So it's like I love to have thatcomplete discussion of what is
your best opportunities hereversus other places? And again,
it does not hurt my feelings if somebodyin the end after they've seen all the
(06:44):
data, they go, well, this actuallyis a little bit better for me,
and it's a small community. We'reall going to be in touch anyway,
so we'll see you in the future andcongratulate you wherever you end up.
On that note too,
I think that for maybe junior facultythat are listening to this podcast,
I think you're giving insights as far asreminding us maybe what are some of the
aspects to focus on whenwe're in these interviews,
(07:07):
what kinds of questionsare we looking for? Right?
You're kind of highlighting the importanceof talking about that communication
style, thinking about whatsomebody's interests are.
How does our program support those goals?
I'm curious,
what advice might you have forthese interviewees as far as
(07:30):
the interview process,
as far as how can they bestconvey their communication style,
their personality, theseaspects in the interview?
Yeah, I mean, number one, be yourself.Don't try to be somebody you're not.
Just relax and embrace the interestsyou have and the things you like to do,
and don't be shy about talking about them.
(07:53):
I find a lot of my interviews spend moretime just chatting with somebody about
where they grew up, what kind ofenvironment do they like to hang out in,
and just to get a feel for, oh,well, would they like our area?
Would they like to live here?So just relax, be yourself,
but also be really cautious aboutaggressively overselling yourself.
(08:17):
I have some applicants sometimes whowant to jump into the interview and
immediately start to tell me everythingabout where they were in their
class ranking, everypublication that they've done,
every research project they'reinvolved in. And that's all great,
but keep in mind, again,
we already have that information.So what I like is if there
(08:38):
is a particular thing I'm interested in,
I'll ask you about it and becauseI want to hear more about it.
So oftentimes we'll havesomebody who says, oh,
I did this summer research project andthen that has progressed in the year
since then and I might reallybe interested. Okay, great.
Tell me more about that. What did you getout of that? And have that discussion.
(09:00):
But I've had some who almost turn iton its head where I feel like I'm being
interviewed and they're justkind of bludgeoning me with a
little too much information all at once.It's like, just have a conversation,
enjoy it, and we'll getto the important things.
I think what I'm taking away from itis if somebody's coming in and they're
(09:20):
having that kind of like, I'm swimmingupstream, it's me versus the world.
Maybe if they're hitting you with allthis information that that's going
to consume that period of time that youhave for the interview, and you might,
I guess I think end thatnot really having much
information to go on for that individual.
(09:42):
Correct. Already. Like I said,
we've already got this huge packetof information about that individual,
and so just hearing itagain might reinforce it,
but doesn't really help me learnanything new about that person.
And so the interview is really to sortof get to know somebody at a level
that we can't achieve just by reading.
(10:05):
So in terms of advice forpeople interviewing this,
it may sound cliche,
but be yourself and you'rereally looking to have a
back and forth conversation and lettingthe interviewer kind of take the lead on
the direction.
Yes, absolutely.
One aspect I think at leastI usually have a conversation
(10:29):
about with medical students iskind of that part of the interview,
what questions do theyhave for the program?
And my sense is sometimes applicants don't
necessarily have a greatsense on what they want to ask
early on,
and so maybe they have oneor two that they just ask.
(10:51):
Do you have any kind of advicefor those interviewing as far
as how to approach thinkingabout questions that are going to be, I don't know,
the way I think about it is meaningfulfor making their rank list after they're
done with interviews.
Exactly. Yeah. I mean,
it's such an intimidating process becausethey are told you've got to have some
(11:14):
questions because if youdon't have any questions,
there's this appearance of like, oh,
I either didn't do myhomework about the program,
or I'm not very interested in the program,
which you definitely don't want tocome across as, but at the same time,
it's exhausting to come up withall these different questions.
And then of course, the longer yougo through that interview season,
(11:35):
you get more and more tired as you go.But yeah, I know it's cliche to say,
but yeah, definitely have abank of questions prepared.
But I think an important point to makeabout that is it does not have to be
necessarily about the residency program,although those questions are great,
but just anything that conveysan interest in the program,
(11:58):
the area,
remember this is where you're goingto be for four years. So I've had some
people that ask me greatquestions about childcare,
about opportunities for travel in the
area and what's around thatarea. And then of course,
we get lots of questionsabout the program itself.
But one thing I think people don'tthink of is that in an interview,
(12:23):
we are specifically notallowed to ask questions.
We can't ask people aboutwhether they're married,
whether they have childrenor anything like that.
That is a very specific block that we have
not working against us per se, but justthat we're not allowed to ask about.
So when somebody asks me a specific
(12:45):
question about what'schildcare in the city,
that opens up a whole different avenueof things that we can discuss that I
can't ask, oh, do you have children?Because we've got great schools here.
So things like that give us a lot offlexibility. The other thing that I love
to tell people is don't be afraid to askthe same question to multiple people.
(13:07):
So you can have a reallyimportant question that you think,
I'm going to ask a resident that,
but I'm also going to ask these otherfaculty that I wouldn't repeat the same
question to every single personyou're interviewing with.
But we're not taking notes.
So it's not like we're going to sitdown in a room afterwards and say, well,
what did they ask you?
But I think it can be very eyeopeningbecause you can talk to different people
(13:31):
and get different responses,
and sometimes that can really help yourdecision-making process because the
perception of the chief resident and howthey answer a question may be different
from how the faculty answers a question,
and that would be very valuableto you in that interview process.
The other thing is, I always saywhen you're talking about questions,
(13:55):
be cautious about asking faculty
to granular questions about their own cv.
Sometimes it's very important becausemaybe you're very interested in their
research or their type of careerbecause that's what you want to go into.
And so if you're asking,saying, okay, hey,
I read online that you'vedone this and this,
(14:17):
sometimes that can open up fabulousareas of discussion to say, oh,
you're interested in that.Great, let's talk about that.
The only reason I caution people onthat is I have seen the approach where
people are doing their homeworkand they want you to know,
I have done the homework andI've studied your program,
but they start asking a lot of thingsabout your publications or your
(14:40):
research where they really don't haveany necessarily interest or understanding
of that. Exactly. And they justwill basically say like, oh,
I saw you did a project onblank. Can you tell me about it?
And it can come acrossstrangely because again,
I'm not the one being interviewed,so I would caution people,
(15:00):
again,
if you have a particular interestin something fabulous and let's talk
about it as much as you want.
But I wouldn't just ask generalquestions like that about somebody's
cv.
I'm glad you brought that up.
If I can kind of dig in just a littlebit then and ask a follow up about,
(15:20):
are there a couple other maybe waysthat somebody can kind of convey that
they've done their homeworkwithout asking the kind of
detailed publication record?Because like you say,
that's what is trying to get communicatedacross, but like we're saying,
that can really eat up a lot of time andthat may not actually serve anybody's
(15:43):
interests.
So I think, again,
if you're one of the applicants who'scoming in with a very specific interest,
I want to do pathologybecause I want to do GI path,
then I think it's much easierto ask these very specific
questions because youhave a genuine interest.
Maybe it might be even an area ofresearch you're already working in,
(16:05):
and so you're trying to target like,oh, do you do this in your lab?
Because I'm really interestedin that. That's fabulous.
But if not that level of granularity,
then I would say asking morequestions about the program,
but being specific.
So if I know for instance thatyou've done your research and you've
(16:25):
looked at our program and our curriculumand you're aware that we have a
separate, let's say,
informatics rotation and tobe able to point out like, oh,
I see that there's an informaticsrotation that's usually offered first or
second year. Can you tell memore about how that works?
That tells me the same thing. You'velooked online, you've seen what we do,
(16:47):
and you have a specific question aboutthe curriculum or the program in general.
So those types of questions are a littlebit more open to the program as opposed
to the specific interviewer,
which can definitely open up discussionswithout putting the interviewer sort of
on their back foot.
Right on. If I can then turn,
(17:10):
and I realize maybe it's a littlebit of a problematic area to
talk about as a program director,
what if any kind of follow up,
and I use the word here andI realize this is fraught,
what do you expect from thosethat you have interviewed? Right?
Because I know that there arerules about contact that happens,
(17:34):
and I think certainly there's a lotof conversations that happen amongst
interviewees about thankyou letters or follow up
emails.
What are your thoughts about whatyou might see from somebody who
is interested in the programafter they've interviewed?
(17:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's pretty common for someoneafter they have done the interview to
send out just a general thank you email
for the opportunity to do the interview,
and you can be as detailed or noton that. It could just be a really,
thank you so much for hosting me, lookforward to talking to you in the future,
(18:17):
or something like that.
Or it can be more detailed if you hadsomething that you really wanted to
highlight as a great experienceduring that interview day.
But there's not an expectation thatwe necessarily get that feedback,
but at least sending the one sort offollow-up email is usually kind of nice
just to know that they had a good time.
(18:38):
And sometimes I've actually reached outto some just because I wanted to make
sure they got home safelyor what have you. I had one,
I think it was lastyear or the year before,
who was basically sickduring the interview process
and made it through,
but was just struggling the whole timebecause it was all virtual anyway. And so
I followed up with them justto make sure you, okay. So
(19:02):
that being said, we encourage,
and I think most programdirectors encourage all the applicants that if you have
any questions as you go through the restof this process to reach out anytime to
us. So especially if you'reearly in the interview process,
you are going to discover questionslater that you wish you would've asked.
(19:23):
And that is an open door policy for uswhere it's like at any point you can
email, call back and say,Hey, now that I've done this,
I have this question about your program.
What do you offer for thisspecifically? We always embrace those.
That being said,
we also make it very clear that it's kindof a one-way street for communication.
(19:43):
If the interviewee opensup a dialogue with us,
we are happy to have as much of aconversation as they want so that they can
understand as much of the program asthey can. But we are very limited on
how we reach back out to theapplicants other than right after the
interviews, I'll usually sendout an email that just says,
(20:05):
thank you for joining uslast week, or what have you.
But then I tell all of them duringthe interview season that we are not
in the practice of reaching back outto you multiple times to see if you
need anything else.
We really try to avoid any kind ofpressure on that applicant later
(20:26):
as they're going through their ranklist. We want them to make that decision.
And again, we're hereto answer any questions,
but I'm not going tohound them on any of that.
I think that's important forthe audience to hear both for
trainees from this or for people thatare me interviewing to know that they can
reach back out.
I think there's been a number of peoplethat have come into my office after
(20:49):
doing their interviews andthey're kind of like, okay,
how should I make this ranklist that? It's kind like, well,
how did these placesdo in your estimation?
And maybe there are questions that theydidn't realize in the beginning that
they'd want to go back and asksome of those earlier, excuse me,
some of those earlier programs about,
(21:10):
so kind of letting them know thatthey can always reach back out.
And then also the idea that there arecertain rules around how does contact go
from the program just becausethe match process is trying to
maintain that sanctity of the decisions.
Yes, and I think going back to one ofthe things you touched on a second ago,
(21:34):
it's really important for the applicantsto understand that this is designed
for them. It is weightedtowards them first, not us.
And I cannot emphasizeenough the idea of just make
your rank list in the order you want it.
Don't play any mind games withyourself trying to figure out, well,
(21:54):
I don't know if they want me or not.
Just rank them in the order thatyou want and it'll all work out.
But I think people try toovercomplicate the psychology behind it.
Sometimes.
We've been routing with Dr. Reade Quintontalking about advice for interviewing
for residency. Thanks for takingthe time to talk about this with us.
(22:17):
Thank you, Dr. Kreuter. It'salways a pleasure to be here.
I appreciate the opportunity.
To all our listeners, we thankyou for joining us today.
We invite you to share your thoughtsand suggestions via email to MCL
education@mayo.edu. Ifyou've enjoyed this podcast,
please subscribe and untilour next rounds together,
we encourage you to continue to connectlab medicine and the clinical practice
(22:38):
through educational conversations.
This is Lab Medicine Rounds, acurated podcast for physicians,
laboratory professionals and students.I'm your host, Justin Kreuter,
a transfusion medicine pathologistand assistant professor of laboratory
medicine and pathology at Mayo Clinic.
Today we're roundingwith Dr. Reade Quinton,
an associate professor of laboratorymedicine and pathology and anatomic
pathologist in the Departmentof Laboratory Medicine pathology at Mayo Clinic to
(00:30):
talking about advice onapplying and interviewing for
residency. Thanks for joiningus today, Dr. Quinton.
I am happy to be here again. Dr.Kreuter. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Let's kind of kick off with what are afew things that most interviewers are
probably trying to assessduring those interviews we
(00:52):
have for residency?
Yeah, so there's a lotthat goes on in that,
and I think of course every intervieweris going to be slightly different,
but in general I can give you some basics.
I think one of the things that theapplicants need to remember is that
if you're already inthe interview process,
(01:12):
if you have been invited to an interview,
there's a ton of things we've alreadysort of gotten through and established.
So number one,
we've already seen your scores andhow many publications you have,
where have you presented all theselittle details of the application.
So when I am sitting downduring the interview process,
(01:33):
I'm not really worriedabout that at that point.
It's like you've alreadymade it past that level,
so I'm not necessarily going to sitthere and ask about the granular
details of your USLE scoresor anything like that.
So the first thing that I liketo ask or get a sense of is
just the idea of are they awareof what they're getting into? It's
(01:54):
kind of easy sometimes to establishin their personal statement,
do they really know what they'regetting into if they go into pathology
as a residency program.
But sometimes it's a little unclear andsometimes people have had more or less
exposure in their med school too.
So kind of just chatting with them tosee does this person really understand
(02:19):
what the next four years will entail,
that perhaps maybe they reallylike one thing in pathology,
but do they also know theyhave to do these other things?
So I really like to see do theyknow what they're signing up for?
The other thing I really liketo assess is just in general
(02:39):
communication and personality andare they going to fit well in the
program? Knowing who I have as faculty,
knowing who I have as apool of current residents,
does this person seem likesomebody who would slot in nicely,
get along with everybody and kindof work in that team and you can
gauge your team. My team here is goingto be very different from other programs
(03:02):
teams.
And so just getting a sense ofwho is this person and do they
seem like they would work well withour group is very important to me.
I feel like we can train everything else.
We can teach you the pathology,
but it's more difficult ifyou're not comfortable in
(03:24):
the environment.
We want to make sure that the traineesare in the best environment for them
so that they're successful.And then finally,
sort of the third thing I love toask about and a lot of us do is
it is a little bit like that idea ofdo you know what you're getting into?
But really it's what are yourgoals moving forward? Now,
(03:46):
some of our applicants don't knowyet, and they are, as we like to say,
in pathology,
they're undifferentiated. They don'tknow exactly what they may want to
specialize in yet, and that'sperfectly fine and valid.
And knowing that upfront kind ofchanges the discussion somewhat too.
Other people though have verydistinct needs and goals as
(04:08):
far as maybe they're veryheavily interested in research,
maybe they're heavily interestedin educational opportunities.
Maybe they already know I'm absolutelygoing to go into transfusion medicine,
so I want to target this type of program.
And so knowing that upfront can helpus guide that person as far as would
(04:28):
this program a good fit foryou? So if somebody says,
I absolutely want todo pediatric pathology,
they might be a great applicant,but in my program here,
we don't have a dedicated children'shospital that they would rotate through.
So we might have a discussion of, well,
here's all the amazingresources and things that we could provide here. However,
(04:51):
let's talk about that a little bit morebecause there may be other opportunities
that are better for you.And that being said,
I don't believe you should ever targeta residency based on exactly what you
want to do for fellowship.So for instance,
we don't have a forensic fellowship here,
but we have an amazing experience forpeople who want to go into forensic
(05:14):
pathology.
So I don't think the applicants need tonecessarily target a residency training
program at that level,
but having those discussions about dothey know what they want to do in the
longterm can really help us focus on,
okay, great. If that's important to you,
let's talk about the opportunitieshere and how we might be able to guide
(05:38):
you through that process.
I think that's really wonderful tohighlight for listeners who might be
interviewing this year in future years,
this idea that the interviewis also looking out for them in
the sense of might we bethe right program for you?
Or maybe even highlight for them,
(05:58):
maybe some weaknessesthat our program has,
which might highlight for questionsthat they have for other interviews that
they go through.
So it really is kind of acollaborative experience
rather than, I think sometimeswhen you're interviewing,
you kind of feel like you're trying toswim upstream and it's just you versus
the world.
(06:20):
Exactly.
I think it's just as importantto us that we get not only
great residents, but we wantthem to be happy and successful.
So it's like I love to have thatcomplete discussion of what is
your best opportunities hereversus other places? And again,
it does not hurt my feelings if somebodyin the end after they've seen all the
(06:44):
data, they go, well, this actuallyis a little bit better for me,
and it's a small community. We'reall going to be in touch anyway,
so we'll see you in the future andcongratulate you wherever you end up.
On that note too,
I think that for maybe junior facultythat are listening to this podcast,
I think you're giving insights as far asreminding us maybe what are some of the
aspects to focus on whenwe're in these interviews,
(07:07):
what kinds of questionsare we looking for? Right?
You're kind of highlighting the importanceof talking about that communication
style, thinking about whatsomebody's interests are.
How does our program support those goals?
I'm curious,
what advice might you have forthese interviewees as far as
(07:30):
the interview process,
as far as how can they bestconvey their communication style,
their personality, theseaspects in the interview?
Yeah, I mean, number one, be yourself.Don't try to be somebody you're not.
Just relax and embrace the interestsyou have and the things you like to do,
and don't be shy about talking about them.
(07:53):
I find a lot of my interviews spend moretime just chatting with somebody about
where they grew up, what kind ofenvironment do they like to hang out in,
and just to get a feel for, oh,well, would they like our area?
Would they like to live here?So just relax, be yourself,
but also be really cautious aboutaggressively overselling yourself.
(08:17):
I have some applicants sometimes whowant to jump into the interview and
immediately start to tell me everythingabout where they were in their
class ranking, everypublication that they've done,
every research project they'reinvolved in. And that's all great,
but keep in mind, again,
we already have that information.So what I like is if there
(08:38):
is a particular thing I'm interested in,
I'll ask you about it and becauseI want to hear more about it.
So oftentimes we'll havesomebody who says, oh,
I did this summer research project andthen that has progressed in the year
since then and I might reallybe interested. Okay, great.
Tell me more about that. What did you getout of that? And have that discussion.
(09:00):
But I've had some who almost turn iton its head where I feel like I'm being
interviewed and they're justkind of bludgeoning me with a
little too much information all at once.It's like, just have a conversation,
enjoy it, and we'll getto the important things.
I think what I'm taking away from itis if somebody's coming in and they're
(09:20):
having that kind of like, I'm swimmingupstream, it's me versus the world.
Maybe if they're hitting you with allthis information that that's going
to consume that period of time that youhave for the interview, and you might,
I guess I think end thatnot really having much
information to go on for that individual.
(09:42):
Correct. Already. Like I said,
we've already got this huge packetof information about that individual,
and so just hearing itagain might reinforce it,
but doesn't really help me learnanything new about that person.
And so the interview is really to sortof get to know somebody at a level
that we can't achieve just by reading.
(10:05):
So in terms of advice forpeople interviewing this,
it may sound cliche,
but be yourself and you'rereally looking to have a
back and forth conversation and lettingthe interviewer kind of take the lead on
the direction.
Yes, absolutely.
One aspect I think at leastI usually have a conversation
(10:29):
about with medical students iskind of that part of the interview,
what questions do theyhave for the program?
And my sense is sometimes applicants don't
necessarily have a greatsense on what they want to ask
early on,
and so maybe they have oneor two that they just ask.
(10:51):
Do you have any kind of advicefor those interviewing as far
as how to approach thinkingabout questions that are going to be, I don't know,
the way I think about it is meaningfulfor making their rank list after they're
done with interviews.
Exactly. Yeah. I mean,
it's such an intimidating process becausethey are told you've got to have some
(11:14):
questions because if youdon't have any questions,
there's this appearance of like, oh,
I either didn't do myhomework about the program,
or I'm not very interested in the program,
which you definitely don't want tocome across as, but at the same time,
it's exhausting to come up withall these different questions.
And then of course, the longer yougo through that interview season,
(11:35):
you get more and more tired as you go.But yeah, I know it's cliche to say,
but yeah, definitely have abank of questions prepared.
But I think an important point to makeabout that is it does not have to be
necessarily about the residency program,although those questions are great,
but just anything that conveysan interest in the program,
(11:58):
the area,
remember this is where you're goingto be for four years. So I've had some
people that ask me greatquestions about childcare,
about opportunities for travel in the
area and what's around thatarea. And then of course,
we get lots of questionsabout the program itself.
But one thing I think people don'tthink of is that in an interview,
(12:23):
we are specifically notallowed to ask questions.
We can't ask people aboutwhether they're married,
whether they have childrenor anything like that.
That is a very specific block that we have
not working against us per se, but justthat we're not allowed to ask about.
So when somebody asks me a specific
(12:45):
question about what'schildcare in the city,
that opens up a whole different avenueof things that we can discuss that I
can't ask, oh, do you have children?Because we've got great schools here.
So things like that give us a lot offlexibility. The other thing that I love
to tell people is don't be afraid to askthe same question to multiple people.
(13:07):
So you can have a reallyimportant question that you think,
I'm going to ask a resident that,
but I'm also going to ask these otherfaculty that I wouldn't repeat the same
question to every single personyou're interviewing with.
But we're not taking notes.
So it's not like we're going to sitdown in a room afterwards and say, well,
what did they ask you?
But I think it can be very eyeopeningbecause you can talk to different people
(13:31):
and get different responses,
and sometimes that can really help yourdecision-making process because the
perception of the chief resident and howthey answer a question may be different
from how the faculty answers a question,
and that would be very valuableto you in that interview process.
The other thing is, I always saywhen you're talking about questions,
(13:55):
be cautious about asking faculty
to granular questions about their own cv.
Sometimes it's very important becausemaybe you're very interested in their
research or their type of careerbecause that's what you want to go into.
And so if you're asking,saying, okay, hey,
I read online that you'vedone this and this,
(14:17):
sometimes that can open up fabulousareas of discussion to say, oh,
you're interested in that.Great, let's talk about that.
The only reason I caution people onthat is I have seen the approach where
people are doing their homeworkand they want you to know,
I have done the homework andI've studied your program,
but they start asking a lot of thingsabout your publications or your
(14:40):
research where they really don't haveany necessarily interest or understanding
of that. Exactly. And they justwill basically say like, oh,
I saw you did a project onblank. Can you tell me about it?
And it can come acrossstrangely because again,
I'm not the one being interviewed,so I would caution people,
(15:00):
again,
if you have a particular interestin something fabulous and let's talk
about it as much as you want.
But I wouldn't just ask generalquestions like that about somebody's
cv.
I'm glad you brought that up.
If I can kind of dig in just a littlebit then and ask a follow up about,
(15:20):
are there a couple other maybe waysthat somebody can kind of convey that
they've done their homeworkwithout asking the kind of
detailed publication record?Because like you say,
that's what is trying to get communicatedacross, but like we're saying,
that can really eat up a lot of time andthat may not actually serve anybody's
(15:43):
interests.
So I think, again,
if you're one of the applicants who'scoming in with a very specific interest,
I want to do pathologybecause I want to do GI path,
then I think it's much easierto ask these very specific
questions because youhave a genuine interest.
Maybe it might be even an area ofresearch you're already working in,
(16:05):
and so you're trying to target like,oh, do you do this in your lab?
Because I'm really interestedin that. That's fabulous.
But if not that level of granularity,
then I would say asking morequestions about the program,
but being specific.
So if I know for instance thatyou've done your research and you've
(16:25):
looked at our program and our curriculumand you're aware that we have a
separate, let's say,
informatics rotation and tobe able to point out like, oh,
I see that there's an informaticsrotation that's usually offered first or
second year. Can you tell memore about how that works?
That tells me the same thing. You'velooked online, you've seen what we do,
(16:47):
and you have a specific question aboutthe curriculum or the program in general.
So those types of questions are a littlebit more open to the program as opposed
to the specific interviewer,
which can definitely open up discussionswithout putting the interviewer sort of
on their back foot.
Right on. If I can then turn,
(17:10):
and I realize maybe it's a littlebit of a problematic area to
talk about as a program director,
what if any kind of follow up,
and I use the word here andI realize this is fraught,
what do you expect from thosethat you have interviewed? Right?
Because I know that there arerules about contact that happens,
(17:34):
and I think certainly there's a lotof conversations that happen amongst
interviewees about thankyou letters or follow up
emails.
What are your thoughts about whatyou might see from somebody who
is interested in the programafter they've interviewed?
(17:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it's pretty common for someoneafter they have done the interview to
send out just a general thank you email
for the opportunity to do the interview,
and you can be as detailed or noton that. It could just be a really,
thank you so much for hosting me, lookforward to talking to you in the future,
(18:17):
or something like that.
Or it can be more detailed if you hadsomething that you really wanted to
highlight as a great experienceduring that interview day.
But there's not an expectation thatwe necessarily get that feedback,
but at least sending the one sort offollow-up email is usually kind of nice
just to know that they had a good time.
(18:38):
And sometimes I've actually reached outto some just because I wanted to make
sure they got home safelyor what have you. I had one,
I think it was lastyear or the year before,
who was basically sickduring the interview process
and made it through,
but was just struggling the whole timebecause it was all virtual anyway. And so
I followed up with them justto make sure you, okay. So
(19:02):
that being said, we encourage,
and I think most programdirectors encourage all the applicants that if you have
any questions as you go through the restof this process to reach out anytime to
us. So especially if you'reearly in the interview process,
you are going to discover questionslater that you wish you would've asked.
(19:23):
And that is an open door policy for uswhere it's like at any point you can
email, call back and say,Hey, now that I've done this,
I have this question about your program.
What do you offer for thisspecifically? We always embrace those.
That being said,
we also make it very clear that it's kindof a one-way street for communication.
(19:43):
If the interviewee opensup a dialogue with us,
we are happy to have as much of aconversation as they want so that they can
understand as much of the program asthey can. But we are very limited on
how we reach back out to theapplicants other than right after the
interviews, I'll usually sendout an email that just says,
(20:05):
thank you for joining uslast week, or what have you.
But then I tell all of them duringthe interview season that we are not
in the practice of reaching back outto you multiple times to see if you
need anything else.
We really try to avoid any kind ofpressure on that applicant later
(20:26):
as they're going through their ranklist. We want them to make that decision.
And again, we're hereto answer any questions,
but I'm not going tohound them on any of that.
I think that's important forthe audience to hear both for
trainees from this or for people thatare me interviewing to know that they can
reach back out.
I think there's been a number of peoplethat have come into my office after
(20:49):
doing their interviews andthey're kind of like, okay,
how should I make this ranklist that? It's kind like, well,
how did these placesdo in your estimation?
And maybe there are questions that theydidn't realize in the beginning that
they'd want to go back and asksome of those earlier, excuse me,
some of those earlier programs about,
(21:10):
so kind of letting them know thatthey can always reach back out.
And then also the idea that there arecertain rules around how does contact go
from the program just becausethe match process is trying to
maintain that sanctity of the decisions.
Yes, and I think going back to one ofthe things you touched on a second ago,
(21:34):
it's really important for the applicantsto understand that this is designed
for them. It is weightedtowards them first, not us.
And I cannot emphasizeenough the idea of just make
your rank list in the order you want it.
Don't play any mind games withyourself trying to figure out, well,
(21:54):
I don't know if they want me or not.
Just rank them in the order thatyou want and it'll all work out.
But I think people try toovercomplicate the psychology behind it.
Sometimes.
We've been routing with Dr. Reade Quintontalking about advice for interviewing
for residency. Thanks for takingthe time to talk about this with us.
(22:17):
Thank you, Dr. Kreuter. It'salways a pleasure to be here.
I appreciate the opportunity.
To all our listeners, we thankyou for joining us today.
We invite you to share your thoughtsand suggestions via email to MCL
education@mayo.edu. Ifyou've enjoyed this podcast,
please subscribe and untilour next rounds together,
we encourage you to continue to connectlab medicine and the clinical practice
(22:38):
through educational conversations.
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