October 15, 2023 • 35 mins
News Bites are monthly episodes where Danielle and Jeff break down important topics surrounding the field of biomedical research (and some unrelated topics).
In this News Bite edition, Jeff and Danielle discuss:
Ever wondered if taurine could be the secret to longevity and health span? We got curious and decided to investigate. With insights from animal studies, we explore if taurine could help combat obesity, inflammation, blood pressure, and type two diabetes.
Brace yourselves as we step into the future of medical technology, celebrating the astonishing strides made in organ transplants. From its history to the success of the two most recent transplants, we unpack it all. And just when you thought it couldn't get any more fascinating, we talk about the potential use of viruses found in animal poop in treating diabetic foot ulcers. Buckle up for this thrilling journey, and don't forget to connect with us on social media for more exciting content. Thanks for listening, and we promise to be back with more episodes soon!
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https://www.amprogress.org/raising-voices/lab-rat-chat/
Resources & Links:
- Taurine may help slow the aging process, new animal study shows (medicalnewstoday.com)
- Viruses Found in Animal Poop May One Day Treat Diabetic Foot Ulcers, Scientists Say (msn.com)
- Monkey survives for two years after gene-edited pig-kidney transplant (nature.com)
- Pregnancy hormones can make lasting changes to brains, lab mouse study shows : Shots - Health News : NPR
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This podcast is supported by Americans for
Medical Progress and was foundedand created through the Michael
D Hare Fellowship, awardedannually to support projects
that inform and educate thepublic about the critical role
of animal research in furtheringmedical progress.
The Fellowship honors the lateDr Michael Hare, a renowned
board-certified laboratoryanimal veterinarian who
dedicated his career toscientific and medical
(00:25):
advancements and who was deeplycommitted to animal welfare and
advocacy.
Hey, everyone, welcome in tothe October edition of the Lab
Brat Chat NewsBite episode.
Danielle and I were justtalking.
It's been quite some time.
I think they'll be glad toactually look it up.
It's been since June.
So we apologize for the lack ofNewsBite and just in general
(00:51):
episode.
This life has been a little bitcrazy, I think, for both of us,
and so it's just finding timeto record has been nearly
impossible and we have set up acouple episodes and we are
getting ready to record, evenwith guests for interview
episodes and last minute thingschange.
Trying to coordinate time zoneswhen people are across the
(01:13):
world can be difficult, and sothat's one excuse for one of the
episodes.
We were getting ready to recordour time and the person thought
we were doing it in their timein Germany and obviously that
didn't work.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, it was like 2 AM here or something.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, so that didn't work out, but anyways,
sorry for the lack of episodes,but here's one for you and
hopefully from moving here,moving forward.
I mean, things are starting toget a little bit more normal in
my life, so maybe we can havesome more consistency.
So I don't know about your life.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
At least for news bites, I'm hopeful.
I mean, I think the interviewstake a little more coordinating,
but we're going to keep workingat it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, trying to record with three or sometimes
four people makes it hard, forsure, but it's just me and you.
We can figure out times.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So.
But so things have been socrazy with me as I started, and
why bought a vet practice.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You did.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's what I wanted to ask you about.
Yeah, Because I think I toldyou about it over the summer
things are progressing and allsudden rapidly towards the end
there and it was like in August,and all of a sudden financing,
everything went through.
And then they were like well,let's close in two weeks.
And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, that's way too, way, too soon.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I still have a job.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You know we need to tell my employer and everything.
So I ended up pushing it 30days out and so it was like
right at the end of September.
So I'm doing it for two weeksnow and so it's just been a
little bit crazy.
Learning all the like themedicine side's fine, it's
learning the business stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
That business side.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Which nobody teaches you about.
You know so.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Whoa.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But it's been fun.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Did you change the name of the practice or did you
keep the name?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
No, we kept it, so it's not like Dr Jeff's vet
clinic now.
Now maybe down the road.
It's been around since 1986,the year I was born, so it's
been run by the same vet thewhole time.
So well-established practice inthe area that he has good
(03:25):
clientele and everything, so itall worked out.
Wow and we actually have thesame birthday me and the
previous owner, so how crazy isthat.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, sounds like it was kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It's just meant to be , yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Stars were aligning.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, it's really hard to think about the fact
that he has been there workingin that building, the length of
your life, literally my entirelife, yeah.
Like I feel like I've beenaround for a while and to just
do that every day for 37 yearsis a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, you get like restless.
It's in my experience ofknowing you.
You get restless, so hopefullythis will fill that void for a
while.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Restless in positions Like you're like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think I'm going to just move across the country.
Oh, now I think I'm going to goto vet school.
Oh well, I've worked as a vet,now I think I'm going to buy a
vet clinic.
Hey, danielle, you want torepel off the side of a building
?
I'm feeling bored.
And you did.
You did repel that.
The photo of us popped up in myphone memories and like I went
(04:28):
back to that day and I was like,damn, that hurt so much Because
I like I don't know if anyone'sever repelled off the side of a
building, but like everyoneelse is doing it perfectly fine,
my brain like kicking off theside of a building.
You want to put your feet underyou?
Like it doesn't make sense toleave your feet at like an L
angle, and so I just kept likebody slamming the wall.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, it was a pretty basic setup and there was no
like if you didn't hold the ropeyou would just free fall to the
bottom.
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And nobody gave us that heads up.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think I free fell through the first like 10 feet
before I realized like it's notlike when you go rock climbing
and it has some safety device inthere and you go down, slow
your hands and remember you, letgo, you fall.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, no, we tied the harness around us ourselves.
It was a rope, it wasn't like alike a harness, like buckles.
The military people were like,okay, hold it in a loop and wing
it around and put it under yourthigh and crisscross it and out
the sausage.
We're like this is.
And then, but we did it andwhatever, I'll never do it again
.
It was traumatizing.
(05:37):
You did great.
I had like bruised knees andjust kept body slamming the wall
.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah.
You do it again, you do itagain.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
No, no, I don't think I would.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, there was no like safety check to make
sure we had it tied Right.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Do you remember how much like I imagine it hurt you,
but like my crotch hurt, foryou know days from those ropes,
like ow, it was not pleasant.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean maybe, maybe mine was tied tighter around my
legs and yours.
You just kind of yours wedgedup and mine didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was fine, it was no bueno.
Yeah, it was fun.
It was a good low Tokyo for me.
Throw a ball, go.
I think I'll be happy here fora while.
So I don't think I'll.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I mean not that I haven't been happy in other
positions, but it's just always,always that kind of Well, no,
but like you just like get anidea to go buy pigs and then put
them in your house, that kindof thing Well.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I mean my idea to buy pigs.
I don't know.
I think that was more Claire'sidea.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And then one pig turned to two pigs, two pigs
turned to four pigs.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And then two pigs turned into bacon.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, two pigs turned into bacon.
Nice, and that's a lot, Let metell you.
My kids the other day asked ifthey could, if we could just
please have some chicken.
All we're eating is beef, porkand seafood.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, no, I mean I feel them on that, because my
husband brings home lots of porkproducts, so yeah, What'd you
send me the other day?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
like 50 pounds of bacon bits or something.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
No, no, 50 pounds of pepperoni.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Okay, but you've gotten a lot of bacon bits
before.
I think you've.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh, we've gotten.
You gave me some, yeah, massboxes of bacon bits.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, but I mean it's quite the perk.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The pepperoni is cool because my kids love pepperoni.
So if I have to like pack thema lunch, I'm like here's a rose
made out of pepperoni andthey're like I'm the coolest and
I'm like that's your protein.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I know my kids love pepperoni stew.
I'm not sure how great they arereally to eat all the time, but
no, she's never interested,super super super processed, but
yeah.
But they do like them and theyneed some sort of protein Cause
other than that, like they don't, I don't know how my kids
survive on a daily basis yeah.
(07:52):
Like, and one time I actually Itried to count their calories
to see how much they're actuallyeating, and then, surprisingly
it's plenty.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And the protein was actually fine too, but it's just
sometimes I feel like theysurvive on like four chips and a
bite of an apple.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, my kids go to town.
They're not.
They're not light eaters, but,and my kids, luckily, will eat
eggs, which is great Cause wehave eggs galore, but Griffin
only eats hard boiled eggs andMorgan only eats scrambled eggs.
So I have to like, have bothready for having eggs.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well, hard boiled eggs is easy to keep ready.
Just keep them in the fridge,yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's fine.
Do that in the instant pot.
Seven minutes done, Easy peasy.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I've never tried it in the instant pot.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I'm always Google.
I might have to make them.
I have to Google best way tomake hard boiled eggs I never
remember the protocol.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Fun fact about hard boiled eggs if you boil like
fresh eggs, like what we have,cause they're literally like a
day old by the time we eat them,yeah, if you just boil them the
old school way, they'reimpossible to peel the eggshell
off of.
That's why, like store boughteggs, when you hard boiled them,
it's like, oh, the shell justcomes right off, cause they're
like 45 days old by the time youget them.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But if you use the instant pot with fresh eggs,
it's easy peasy to get the shelloff.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Okay, well, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, this is now a cooking show.
To know and we did a scienceexperiment homeschool science
experiment and we took somevinegar and like dissolved the
shell off the egg, yeah, andthen you give like a little
bouncy ball.
My son has to be yeah, my sonhas to be the classroom
scientist in November and that'sthe experiment I'm sending him
in with.
So we've done that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You said in September , you guys already did it.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Did I say September, I meant November, sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You may have said November, I heard September.
Okay, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
In November.
He's the class scientist, sohe's bringing in eggs and
vinegar and I'm going to sendhim with some beakers and some
cute little conical tubes ofvinegar to pour in.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Doesn't that take like 24 hours?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, he can present it and then come back the next
day and have a bouncy egg.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, don't bounce it too hard.
Yeah, I did some tests.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
No, I did some tests on like how hard you can mess
with it.
So we're going to we'll doanother practice run before he
presents.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And then I guess you can take like chiro syrup or
sugar water or something, andthen after you dissolve the
shell and it will.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Did you say chiro syrup?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
How do you say it, chiro?
Chiro syrup, whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Snow eye, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All timers, okay, and it does like, I think, the
vinegar comes out and the sugargoes in and you can like dye it
and make it change colors.
We didn't do that step, butcheck it out.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
All right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You can take it a step further.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
All right.
So, Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Anyways, now we're 12 and a half minutes in.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Science let's talk about science.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Let's get into what we're actually going to talk
about.
So, in case this is your firstnews bite, we always have a
couple of episodes that we eachpresent and discuss.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Couple episodes, couple articles we have a couple
articles for the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, thanks for correcting me, september all
timers, so I've got two.
I've got one about a sorry, amonkey being kept alive with a
pig kidney.
Oh, oh.
Yeah.
All right, We'll talk aboutthat the effects of torene,
(11:33):
which is all in all those energydrinks everybody's drinking all
the time, and how it mightactually help with aging.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Wow so something positive.
Well, I will be talking aboutpregnancy, brain and also poop.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Are you pregnant?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
No.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
These are my articles pregnancy brain and poop.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Okay, cool, all right .
Well, that's all.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I'm going to give now .
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I'm going to save the details for?
Yeah Well, I'll start with mine.
So this is a so to ring isfound typically in I guess it's
in dairy products, and then it'salso in a lot of energy drinks.
And while we're on the topic ofdairy products, I just have to
bring up I was talking aboutmilk with somebody the other day
and they gave me the whole like.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Growth hormone.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
No, they gave me the whole.
Like humans are the onlyspecies that drink milk, we
shouldn't be drinking it.
Discussion.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And it just drives me nuts and that's awesome.
I'm with a sticker that saidnot your mom, not your milk,
with the cow on it, and I'm like, how much do you want to bet
these people still eat cheese,like if you're in that camp of
no milk not your mom, not yourmilk camp.
If you don't get cheese, youdon't get yogurt, anything like
(12:49):
that butter.
Sorry, off limits.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And it just drives me nuts.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But other animals do have other animals' milk, like
dogs can have goats' milk.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Is it just that they don't like seek out goats?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Like I don't get the argument.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They don't have access to it.
And, as Joe Rogan puts it,humans are also the only species
that build bridges and flyairplanes.
Yeah, we're just a little moreevolved.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Slightly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So anyways.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Has anyone tried handing a primate a glass, a
cold glass of milk, like maybethey would be like this is
delicious.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I guarantee they would chuck it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I've got them for the November news bite.
I'm going to.
Well, I'm going to go find it.
I'm going to go read up on this.
I'm going to present somethingabout milk and animals.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay.
Maybe All right, well, youremembered the guy who used to
work in our office who wasobsessed with camel milk.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Obsessed, imported it from Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, camels milk was it for him so.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
But there, and it was powdered camel milk.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So then you mix it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Whatever, but apparently the camel's milk has
lots of research in helpingchildren with autism.
So I almost had children withAlzheimer's which would have
been, which is clearly what youhave.
I worry about it every day.
Maybe I need more towing.
So, anyways, the, the towing,they and monkeys, mice and worms
(14:28):
, like those C elegans worms,and they.
They found that the deficiencyin the nutrient towing appears
to drive the aging process andcauses them to age, that so it
decreases lifespan and decreasestheir health span health span
just being like, just stillbeing healthy as the age, be
(14:51):
able to do things you could dowhen you were younger.
And they found that the towingkind of reverses the aging.
In these animal models they hadan increased lifespan of about
12% in females, so good for you.
And then about 10% for males.
And they they get.
They did the study over about ayear.
(15:11):
They gave the animals towing,they compared them to.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Sorry, did you say what species?
I don't.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, yeah, I sure did, I sure did Well my brain
Monkeys mice and worms.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh yeah, okay, I got you Right.
You did say that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, If you forget again, just let me know.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well one of my articles is about mom brain, so
oh, yeah, maybe you need moretowing in your life.
They yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So one of the things that does it's it works as a
neurotransmitter in the brain,and so if we have lack of towing
, then obviously we have lack ofthat neurotransmitter and then
it just has effects on on aging,and so whether or not this
really translates into humans wedon't know.
But people with higher levelsof towing they found in humans
(16:01):
already have lower levels ofobesity, they have lower
inflammation, their bloodpressures are better and they're
less likely to get type twodiabetes.
Now, all of that is saying alot.
You know there could be otherfactors involved too, but just
continue into to look into thistype of thing and I remember
really interested into just thefield in general, if you've
(16:21):
listened about anything thatincreases longevity and and
helps them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, you really do focus on that, huh.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, I don't, and I don't type like animal research,
longevity or aging when I lookup articles.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
The articles just behind you.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
They just happen.
They come to me kind of likethe lobsters go to you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But wait, but also like the mom brain came up when
I hmm, this is skeptical, it'ssketchy, I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
But it is a recent article.
It's not like it's from, youknow, years ago.
It's from September of thisyear, so I even recently read it
.
But why didn't read a book?
Cause who has time to read abook?
But if you're interested in it,there's a new book out called
out live by Peter Atea I thinkthat's how you say his last name
(17:09):
.
He's a doctor that he focuseson this stuff.
He had the whole practicefocused on longevity and health
span and the book is fantastic.
If you have time to read, readit.
Otherwise, get the audio book.
I found a free trial ofaudibles so I was like, well,
just listen to a book as I drive.
The book was 17 hours in audioform so it took me about I don't
(17:29):
know two months to listen tojust on the way to work my 20
minute drive to work each day.
That's a great book.
So you check it out.
And you know help in to findways to increase your health
span and longevity.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, you don't need 50 pounds of pepperoni.
You don't sound interested.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Don't need just 25 pounds but so so that's that
I'll continue to.
I'm sure next month I'll haveanother article on aging.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, super cool.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I'm half asleep right now, no, so I sound.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I know you're making us do this really early in the
morning.
I don't know if people can hearin my voice, but I mean I've
been up for several hours, butit's just the fact that it's
still.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You have to be like 8am.
Yeah, yeah.
So I found an article.
It was actually just put outtwo days ago.
Pregnancy is a brain changerthat prepares a mouse for
parenting.
When I first saw this I waslike duh.
Anyone who's had kids know thatyour brain is fried after you
have kids.
But this is cool because itkind of goes into the mechanisms
(18:37):
and why and what's changing andprecisely what it's causing.
They did different experimentswith mice having pups and what
kind of drives them to care forthose animals and what turns on
that parental instinct.
And it's estradiol andprogesterone.
But the interesting part- isSay estradiol.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Estradiol how do you say it?
Estradiol, estradiol, estradiol, estradiol, estradiol.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, estradiol.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Estradiol.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All, all, die, all, die, all.
Okay, long science words.
Anywho, those are the two.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It's not that long, it's a pretty short word.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, but it was one of those ones you have to like
sound it out Seven letters, it'snine letters.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, maybe we're talking about a different thing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Estra is five and then die all.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Four.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, see you for it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, I'm looking at it.
So anyway, they found that ifthey manually turn off these
pathways, that no, that I haveno idea, but they were finding
that the moms would not even tryto take care of their pups.
And also, alternatively, formice that did not go through
(19:50):
pregnancy or have their own pups, if they could mechanically
turn those hormones like activein the, they were calling them
virgin mice.
It was like that's a silly.
I guess they are, that's right.
Yeah, but if they couldactivate these pathways in
virgin mice, these female micewere then like trying to take
care of other pups, like give meyour pups, but they Love
(20:14):
kidnappers.
But it's interesting becausethis could kind of explain or
help treat postpartum depression.
But the other part of thisarticle is that it really does
show that pregnancy likepermanently changes the way your
brain behaves.
And obviously it says humanshave more complex brains than
mice.
There's more to learn, there'smore to look into.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I question that sometimes, though I mean so you
know what Question what.
Some people Never mind Nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
If our brains get more complex, more complex, more
complex.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Do you know whether, just to you and brains, more
complex than mice?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh yeah, for sure, I know.
I feel like the articleprobably just has to say that to
not offend people that were,you know, on the same level as a
cute little mouse.
But you made me lose my trainof thought.
You're talking about mice Seebecause I have my brain oh,
because it was the other thingit was talking about was the
female mice are just moresensitive to like little sounds
(21:12):
and movements that their pupsmake.
So that's like you know again,new moms, we're not sleeping,
you hear any little rustle andyou're like I'm awake, and so
it's kind of neat that nowscience is like acknowledging
our struggles and proving thatwe're all losing it a little bit
with these cute little kidsthat we have.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it took science to tell
us that.
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
That's like when I read the title I'm like duh, but
it is nice to read about and Ithink that the idea that maybe
there's a way to kind of look atpostpartum depression in a
different light could be helpful.
Right, so the whole time I wasjust thinking about how mice
cannibalize their young as theycome out, and so Well, this
article talks about that andit's saying, like for those mice
(21:56):
, what's going wrong where thesepathways aren't being activated
, so to speak?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That's a thing that mom mice do, and it's
interesting to laugh to, becauseit's not like they have
predators or I mean, obviouslythey probably don't love people
staring in their cages at themevery day, but yeah, Just stress
.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I wonder if it's some way to like, if they feel like
they're in a stressful or badenvironment, that they eat the
baby to like save them it awayfrom predators.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so I don't know, butother species do it.
It's not just mice.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
A lot of animals do that.
This research project was justinteresting.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
We had a document for a C-section, but it was like
delivering puppies, so obviouslywe just put it in a rod and
just let it do its thing and,fair enough, it delivered a
puppy and then started eating it.
No, yeah, but it was.
(23:02):
It was, but it didn't work.
The C-section was like a prison.
I think the puppy was alreadyhad already passed before.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Did the dog have other puppies or was it just one
puppy?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I had one before it got there, which I think forgot
to us, which was fine, and thenit just had that one other one.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Okay, hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, but it was kind of horrific.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
For a bit, so all right.
Well, thanks for the mom brainstory.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Way to dampen the mood.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Glad to know you're not coming.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
What do you think about sad dog puppy problems?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Well, maybe this will cheer you up.
Okay, all right.
So a Massachusetts companyannounced on a Wednesday, and
like literally just this pastWednesday, it has kept the
monkey alive for two whole yearsusing a kidney transplant from
a pig.
That's the longest animal hasever survived, worth an organ
(24:00):
from another animal.
And so this Massachusettscompany I didn't say who they
are and I think we talked aboutother like transplant companies.
It seems like a lot of themwanna stay kind of under the
radar and so for one reason oranother, but they made a lot of
edits.
So one of the problems andwe've talked about this before,
(24:20):
I think you talked about theheart transplant last year into
the human right.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And just how they make all these edits to the
organs to avoid the risk ofrejection.
So they made 69 different editsto again.
I don't know how they do allthat, but they do it to avoid,
like, any chance of pig virusespassing into the new host and
then to eliminate thepossibility of rejection.
(24:46):
So hopefully, now that we'vebeen able to, the company's
hoping, now that they've beenable to show this in a monkey
for two years monkeys doinggreat and having no problems or
issues according to the article,that maybe we could start
getting more animal to humantransplants, and so they see it
(25:07):
as something that's valuable.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I kinda feel like you need more than one, like an NF1
, isn't like yeah, I mean theydo need.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And well, there's other companies also doing this
right now.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
They've just had the they just have the longest, the
longest.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Okay, yeah, and some people are doing it with many
like only one edit to the organto help avoid rejection Cause.
A lot of the times, I think alot of those viruses aren't
translatable or transmissiblebetween species, but I think
other companies are findingreasons to take them out for one
reason or another.
(25:39):
Anyways, it doesn't go in toall of that, so, but we know
pigs are always a good sourcefor human organs, just cause
biology and the size of theirorgans are similar to ours.
And then you talked about theheart transplant last year, but
that happened again back inSeptember.
They had the second person toreceive a heart transplant from
(26:02):
a pig and he's doing much betterthan that first person.
The other person survived, Ithink, two months, but they were
.
We found out afterwards thatthey were in really poor health.
Yeah, it was kinda like a lastminute Hail Mary type.
Yeah, there was a lot more thanjust like the heart disease that
was going on.
This person seems like Cause.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think he didn't qualify for a human transplant.
I think that was his problem,cause he maybe was a I wanna say
he was a smoker.
Yeah, I think he was a smoker.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
A smoker.
I think he said a smoker.
He was a smoker, but so yeah,they saw he's.
You know, unfortunately I'msurvived two months with that
pig heart and this person'sgoing on about a month, but
they're doing physical therapycurrently and it looks promising
.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And so they're just gonna continue to, you know,
push the bar here and see ifthey can get approval to start
doing this more frequently.
And, honestly, for a lot ofpeople that it's their last
ditch effort.
I mean, there's more than ahundred thousand people on
Oregon transplant list in the US, and if you're not gonna get
(27:09):
one, you know I'd be willing tosay like, hey, if it's our only
shot, might as well try it andsee what happens.
And I think that's what theydid with these heart transplants
, you know there was-.
They weren't gonna get one.
They were, you know, gonnaunfortunately pass soon.
If they didn't, then this is anoption for them.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So and they'll continue to tinker with all the
genes and delete genes that theythink cause the rejection and
all of that, and they'll figureall that out and get better.
But the doctors that areinvolved and I'm gonna try to
reach out to this one and see ifwe can get him on the show,
because he's really proactiveand trying to push, I think,
(27:51):
just regulators to allowing thisto happen, and so if we can
talk to him and he can kind ofdiscuss this on podcast
platforms and whether or nothe's been on a podcast before I
don't know, but he seems likeonce to get this information out
there so maybe we can get himon here and he can talk us
through it and kind of thedifficulties and the problems
(28:13):
and pros and cons of all of it.
I think that'd be cool.
I'll reach out to him.
Hopefully we'll get him on.
Hopefully we'll have time toactually schedule an episode
with a guest at some point yeah,that would be nice.
Yeah, so, but that's that.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, should we talk about poop?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
We absolutely.
I talk about poop every day.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, you for sure, yeah.
So I always try to find likeone article that's about like a,
I'll say, a regular lab animalspecies, but then I also try to
find one that's like a creative,weird animal.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Someone had a picture of lemurs on it.
I'm like, ooh, let me see whatthis one's about.
Viruses found in animal poopmay one day treat diabetic foot
ulcers.
Scientists say so.
This group of scientists out ofEngland are kind of looking
into and have had some successwith looking for a specific
virus in various wildlife feces,specifically like hang on, the
(29:15):
list is somewhere.
Where did they go?
Lemurs, giraffes, binturongs,guinea baboons and some other
endangered species.
Because they have a very uniquegut microbiome.
So they like find thesebacteriophages and isolate the
fage so you call it fage forshort because they can hijack
(29:37):
certain bacterial cells anddestroy them from the inside out
.
But it's a virus, not anantibiotic, because obviously
we've all heard of drugresistant super bugs and issues
with that and like if you knowanyone who suffers from the
diabetes that also may have footulcer issues or ulcers
elsewhere if antibiotictreatments aren't working.
(29:59):
They're looking at these fagesas a new way of helping wounds
heal.
And the article says like we'renot going and smearing poop on
people's wounds.
They obviously clean it up,they turn it into a slurry, they
filter it, they process it andthey're kind of looking at
turning it into like an ointmentor a cream for wound healing,
(30:19):
but they're trying to isolate asmany fages as they can find out
of different species anddifferent species feces.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Wow, I'm too wester.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm not even sure what you tried to just say.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
But I just think it's really interesting because
obviously we have all heard that, like this, resistance to
antibiotics is going to be amajor problem in the next 10 to
50 years.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I mean, yeah, you know, something can come up with
a variety of fages and phageointments.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's just a new way to treat bacteria, so I think
it's an interesting conceptSounds right here.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Ally some phage ointment.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
A phage.
You need some phage.
It sounds kind of bougie, youknow like, oh, I'm gonna
prescribe you a phage ointment.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Right, that'll be their commercial kind of like
the great coupon commercialsback in the day.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, yeah, definitely .
You have to say it with anaccent like the phage.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, that's pretty cool, yeah, Nothing like some
phage ointment to wrap it all up, yep.
Oh, now I wanted to talk aboutthis is kind of a bonus article
I've never heard.
I found it at first.
I was gonna talk about it andI'm not gonna break it down, but
just in general, they haveextracted and decoded RNA from
(31:37):
an extinct animal known as theTasmanian tiger, or it's
actually called the thylacine.
Have you heard of this?
It's a wolf-like marsupial.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Do we really wanna like resurrect?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
things Do.
We wanna bring it back.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, you know, I feel like did this, like come
out of Australia, causeAustralia has like some of the
craziest.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, it came out of Australia, it's a.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Tasmanian in us.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The last one died in 1936 in a zoo, and they were
basically hunted to extinction.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, so they're not like woolly mammoth old, they're
like 100 years old, extinct.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, but they're crazy looking.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, no, that sounds terrifying.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Thylacine.
So they have almost like theback end.
Almost looks like tiger stripes.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Is it like a chupacabra?
Like a?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, and then it's a carnivore and so I just I mean,
what else does Australia need?
So might as well bring backextinct animals, and so.
But the idea now that they, nowthat they have extracted and
basically figured out the RNAsequences of this animal, I
(32:47):
guess they have ways now thatthey think that they can bring
it back.
And I don't know what kind ofregulations are involved in that
, but seems like there should bea couple.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
So oh goodness.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
That's what they're gonna try and do.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
All right.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So if you see any tiger looking marsupials running
around, Run.
This is it.
Yeah, so I thought that was.
I just thought it was kind ofcool, but not not bringing it
back, but just the animal itselfis crazy.
Maybe we'll put a picture of it.
Hey, are you doing some sort ofgiveaway?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh, yes, I am.
So, since all right, today isOctober 12th, right, I am
getting ready to post a verysilly, tiny, small fun giveaway
on Instagram.
I haven't decided on like theend date.
I'll probably run it for like10 days or two weeks or
something, but if you listen tothis episode, and if you made it
this far.
Close to well.
It depends how quickly we canget it published too, right?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, yeah, all right , that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I'll wait until it's published and then I'll post it
and it'll run for a week or two.
So if you hear this, when thisis a new episode, go to our
social media.
I'm gonna post it on Instagram,I'll post a reminder on
Facebook and then maybe in thefuture I'll do one on Facebook,
but Instagram is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're listening to this in 2024
, it's over.
All right, the giveaway is over.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
This is an October of 23 type thing, but it's just
cute little mouse swag that Ifound that I just wanted to
share with all my little mousefans.
So yeah, check that out afteryou listen to this episode.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
How's that mouse page doing?
Still crushing it?
Oh my mouse, my actual mousepage is crushing it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, I've got like 870 followers or something.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
That's more than we have, which is hilarious.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Because cute mice are the best.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
So Post us some cute mice photos, or maybe that's
what your giveaway will do.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, I can say.
And if you need more cutemouse-ness, check out this page.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, all right, cool .
Well, thanks everyone fortuning in.
Like Danielle said, check outsocial media.
Look for that giveaway.
Like us comment rate.
Review the podcast wherever youcan.
Email us LibratChat at gmailcom.
And thanks for listening andhopefully we'll be doing this
more frequently once again.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're going to try, at least on the monthly basis.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
We're going to put it value and effort into trying.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
All right, All right guys.
Thanks and we'll talk to younext time, See you.
This podcast is supported by Americans for
Medical Progress and was foundedand created through the Michael
D Hare Fellowship, awardedannually to support projects
that inform and educate thepublic about the critical role
of animal research in furtheringmedical progress.
The Fellowship honors the lateDr Michael Hare, a renowned
board-certified laboratoryanimal veterinarian who
dedicated his career toscientific and medical
(00:25):
advancements and who was deeplycommitted to animal welfare and
advocacy.
Hey, everyone, welcome in tothe October edition of the Lab
Brat Chat NewsBite episode.
Danielle and I were justtalking.
It's been quite some time.
I think they'll be glad toactually look it up.
It's been since June.
So we apologize for the lack ofNewsBite and just in general
(00:51):
episode.
This life has been a little bitcrazy, I think, for both of us,
and so it's just finding timeto record has been nearly
impossible and we have set up acouple episodes and we are
getting ready to record, evenwith guests for interview
episodes and last minute thingschange.
Trying to coordinate time zoneswhen people are across the
(01:13):
world can be difficult, and sothat's one excuse for one of the
episodes.
We were getting ready to recordour time and the person thought
we were doing it in their timein Germany and obviously that
didn't work.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, it was like 2 AM here or something.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, so that didn't work out, but anyways,
sorry for the lack of episodes,but here's one for you and
hopefully from moving here,moving forward.
I mean, things are starting toget a little bit more normal in
my life, so maybe we can havesome more consistency.
So I don't know about your life.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
At least for news bites, I'm hopeful.
I mean, I think the interviewstake a little more coordinating,
but we're going to keep workingat it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, trying to record with three or sometimes
four people makes it hard, forsure, but it's just me and you.
We can figure out times.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So.
But so things have been socrazy with me as I started, and
why bought a vet practice.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You did.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's what I wanted to ask you about.
Yeah, Because I think I toldyou about it over the summer
things are progressing and allsudden rapidly towards the end
there and it was like in August,and all of a sudden financing,
everything went through.
And then they were like well,let's close in two weeks.
And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, that's way too, way, too soon.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I still have a job.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
You know we need to tell my employer and everything.
So I ended up pushing it 30days out and so it was like
right at the end of September.
So I'm doing it for two weeksnow and so it's just been a
little bit crazy.
Learning all the like themedicine side's fine, it's
learning the business stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
That business side.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Which nobody teaches you about.
You know so.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Whoa.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But it's been fun.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Did you change the name of the practice or did you
keep the name?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
No, we kept it, so it's not like Dr Jeff's vet
clinic now.
Now maybe down the road.
It's been around since 1986,the year I was born, so it's
been run by the same vet thewhole time.
So well-established practice inthe area that he has good
(03:25):
clientele and everything, so itall worked out.
Wow and we actually have thesame birthday me and the
previous owner, so how crazy isthat.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, sounds like it was kind of.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It's just meant to be , yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Stars were aligning.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, it's really hard to think about the fact
that he has been there workingin that building, the length of
your life, literally my entirelife, yeah.
Like I feel like I've beenaround for a while and to just
do that every day for 37 yearsis a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, you get like restless.
It's in my experience ofknowing you.
You get restless, so hopefullythis will fill that void for a
while.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Restless in positions Like you're like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think I'm going to just move across the country.
Oh, now I think I'm going to goto vet school.
Oh well, I've worked as a vet,now I think I'm going to buy a
vet clinic.
Hey, danielle, you want torepel off the side of a building
?
I'm feeling bored.
And you did.
You did repel that.
The photo of us popped up in myphone memories and like I went
(04:28):
back to that day and I was like,damn, that hurt so much Because
I like I don't know if anyone'sever repelled off the side of a
building, but like everyoneelse is doing it perfectly fine,
my brain like kicking off theside of a building.
You want to put your feet underyou?
Like it doesn't make sense toleave your feet at like an L
angle, and so I just kept likebody slamming the wall.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, it was a pretty basic setup and there was no
like if you didn't hold the ropeyou would just free fall to the
bottom.
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And nobody gave us that heads up.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think I free fell through the first like 10 feet
before I realized like it's notlike when you go rock climbing
and it has some safety device inthere and you go down, slow
your hands and remember you, letgo, you fall.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, no, we tied the harness around us ourselves.
It was a rope, it wasn't like alike a harness, like buckles.
The military people were like,okay, hold it in a loop and wing
it around and put it under yourthigh and crisscross it and out
the sausage.
We're like this is.
And then, but we did it andwhatever, I'll never do it again
.
It was traumatizing.
(05:37):
You did great.
I had like bruised knees andjust kept body slamming the wall
.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah.
You do it again, you do itagain.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
No, no, I don't think I would.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, there was no like safety check to make
sure we had it tied Right.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Do you remember how much like I imagine it hurt you,
but like my crotch hurt, foryou know days from those ropes,
like ow, it was not pleasant.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean maybe, maybe mine was tied tighter around my
legs and yours.
You just kind of yours wedgedup and mine didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was fine, it was no bueno.
Yeah, it was fun.
It was a good low Tokyo for me.
Throw a ball, go.
I think I'll be happy here fora while.
So I don't think I'll.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I mean not that I haven't been happy in other
positions, but it's just always,always that kind of Well, no,
but like you just like get anidea to go buy pigs and then put
them in your house, that kindof thing Well.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I mean my idea to buy pigs.
I don't know.
I think that was more Claire'sidea.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And then one pig turned to two pigs, two pigs
turned to four pigs.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And then two pigs turned into bacon.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, two pigs turned into bacon.
Nice, and that's a lot, Let metell you.
My kids the other day asked ifthey could, if we could just
please have some chicken.
All we're eating is beef, porkand seafood.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, no, I mean I feel them on that, because my
husband brings home lots of porkproducts, so yeah, What'd you
send me the other day?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
like 50 pounds of bacon bits or something.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
No, no, 50 pounds of pepperoni.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Okay, but you've gotten a lot of bacon bits
before.
I think you've.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh, we've gotten.
You gave me some, yeah, massboxes of bacon bits.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, but I mean it's quite the perk.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The pepperoni is cool because my kids love pepperoni.
So if I have to like pack thema lunch, I'm like here's a rose
made out of pepperoni andthey're like I'm the coolest and
I'm like that's your protein.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I know my kids love pepperoni stew.
I'm not sure how great they arereally to eat all the time, but
no, she's never interested,super super super processed, but
yeah.
But they do like them and theyneed some sort of protein Cause
other than that, like they don't, I don't know how my kids
survive on a daily basis yeah.
(07:52):
Like, and one time I actually Itried to count their calories
to see how much they're actuallyeating, and then, surprisingly
it's plenty.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And the protein was actually fine too, but it's just
sometimes I feel like theysurvive on like four chips and a
bite of an apple.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, my kids go to town.
They're not.
They're not light eaters, but,and my kids, luckily, will eat
eggs, which is great Cause wehave eggs galore, but Griffin
only eats hard boiled eggs andMorgan only eats scrambled eggs.
So I have to like, have bothready for having eggs.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well, hard boiled eggs is easy to keep ready.
Just keep them in the fridge,yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's fine.
Do that in the instant pot.
Seven minutes done, Easy peasy.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I've never tried it in the instant pot.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I'm always Google.
I might have to make them.
I have to Google best way tomake hard boiled eggs I never
remember the protocol.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Fun fact about hard boiled eggs if you boil like
fresh eggs, like what we have,cause they're literally like a
day old by the time we eat them,yeah, if you just boil them the
old school way, they'reimpossible to peel the eggshell
off of.
That's why, like store boughteggs, when you hard boiled them,
it's like, oh, the shell justcomes right off, cause they're
like 45 days old by the time youget them.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But if you use the instant pot with fresh eggs,
it's easy peasy to get the shelloff.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Okay, well, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, this is now a cooking show.
To know and we did a scienceexperiment homeschool science
experiment and we took somevinegar and like dissolved the
shell off the egg, yeah, andthen you give like a little
bouncy ball.
My son has to be yeah, my sonhas to be the classroom
scientist in November and that'sthe experiment I'm sending him
in with.
So we've done that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You said in September , you guys already did it.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Did I say September, I meant November, sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You may have said November, I heard September.
Okay, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
In November.
He's the class scientist, sohe's bringing in eggs and
vinegar and I'm going to sendhim with some beakers and some
cute little conical tubes ofvinegar to pour in.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Doesn't that take like 24 hours?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, he can present it and then come back the next
day and have a bouncy egg.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, don't bounce it too hard.
Yeah, I did some tests.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
No, I did some tests on like how hard you can mess
with it.
So we're going to we'll doanother practice run before he
presents.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And then I guess you can take like chiro syrup or
sugar water or something, andthen after you dissolve the
shell and it will.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Did you say chiro syrup?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
How do you say it, chiro?
Chiro syrup, whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Snow eye, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All timers, okay, and it does like, I think, the
vinegar comes out and the sugargoes in and you can like dye it
and make it change colors.
We didn't do that step, butcheck it out.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
All right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You can take it a step further.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
All right.
So, Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Anyways, now we're 12 and a half minutes in.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Science let's talk about science.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Let's get into what we're actually going to talk
about.
So, in case this is your firstnews bite, we always have a
couple of episodes that we eachpresent and discuss.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Couple episodes, couple articles we have a couple
articles for the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, thanks for correcting me, september all
timers, so I've got two.
I've got one about a sorry, amonkey being kept alive with a
pig kidney.
Oh, oh.
Yeah.
All right, We'll talk aboutthat the effects of torene,
(11:33):
which is all in all those energydrinks everybody's drinking all
the time, and how it mightactually help with aging.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Wow so something positive.
Well, I will be talking aboutpregnancy, brain and also poop.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Are you pregnant?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
No.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
These are my articles pregnancy brain and poop.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Okay, cool, all right .
Well, that's all.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I'm going to give now .
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I'm going to save the details for?
Yeah Well, I'll start with mine.
So this is a so to ring isfound typically in I guess it's
in dairy products, and then it'salso in a lot of energy drinks.
And while we're on the topic ofdairy products, I just have to
bring up I was talking aboutmilk with somebody the other day
and they gave me the whole like.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Growth hormone.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
No, they gave me the whole.
Like humans are the onlyspecies that drink milk, we
shouldn't be drinking it.
Discussion.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And it just drives me nuts and that's awesome.
I'm with a sticker that saidnot your mom, not your milk,
with the cow on it, and I'm like, how much do you want to bet
these people still eat cheese,like if you're in that camp of
no milk not your mom, not yourmilk camp.
If you don't get cheese, youdon't get yogurt, anything like
(12:49):
that butter.
Sorry, off limits.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And it just drives me nuts.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But other animals do have other animals' milk, like
dogs can have goats' milk.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Is it just that they don't like seek out goats?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Like I don't get the argument.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They don't have access to it.
And, as Joe Rogan puts it,humans are also the only species
that build bridges and flyairplanes.
Yeah, we're just a little moreevolved.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Slightly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So anyways.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Has anyone tried handing a primate a glass, a
cold glass of milk, like maybethey would be like this is
delicious.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I guarantee they would chuck it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I've got them for the November news bite.
I'm going to.
Well, I'm going to go find it.
I'm going to go read up on this.
I'm going to present somethingabout milk and animals.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay.
Maybe All right, well, youremembered the guy who used to
work in our office who wasobsessed with camel milk.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Obsessed, imported it from Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, camels milk was it for him so.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
But there, and it was powdered camel milk.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So then you mix it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Whatever, but apparently the camel's milk has
lots of research in helpingchildren with autism.
So I almost had children withAlzheimer's which would have
been, which is clearly what youhave.
I worry about it every day.
Maybe I need more towing.
So, anyways, the, the towing,they and monkeys, mice and worms
(14:28):
, like those C elegans worms,and they.
They found that the deficiencyin the nutrient towing appears
to drive the aging process andcauses them to age, that so it
decreases lifespan and decreasestheir health span health span
just being like, just stillbeing healthy as the age, be
(14:51):
able to do things you could dowhen you were younger.
And they found that the towingkind of reverses the aging.
In these animal models they hadan increased lifespan of about
12% in females, so good for you.
And then about 10% for males.
And they they get.
They did the study over about ayear.
(15:11):
They gave the animals towing,they compared them to.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Sorry, did you say what species?
I don't.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, yeah, I sure did, I sure did Well my brain
Monkeys mice and worms.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh yeah, okay, I got you Right.
You did say that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, If you forget again, just let me know.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well one of my articles is about mom brain, so
oh, yeah, maybe you need moretowing in your life.
They yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So one of the things that does it's it works as a
neurotransmitter in the brain,and so if we have lack of towing
, then obviously we have lack ofthat neurotransmitter and then
it just has effects on on aging,and so whether or not this
really translates into humans wedon't know.
But people with higher levelsof towing they found in humans
(16:01):
already have lower levels ofobesity, they have lower
inflammation, their bloodpressures are better and they're
less likely to get type twodiabetes.
Now, all of that is saying alot.
You know there could be otherfactors involved too, but just
continue into to look into thistype of thing and I remember
really interested into just thefield in general, if you've
(16:21):
listened about anything thatincreases longevity and and
helps them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, you really do focus on that, huh.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, I don't, and I don't type like animal research,
longevity or aging when I lookup articles.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
The articles just behind you.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
They just happen.
They come to me kind of likethe lobsters go to you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But wait, but also like the mom brain came up when
I hmm, this is skeptical, it'ssketchy, I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
But it is a recent article.
It's not like it's from, youknow, years ago.
It's from September of thisyear, so I even recently read it
.
But why didn't read a book?
Cause who has time to read abook?
But if you're interested in it,there's a new book out called
out live by Peter Atea I thinkthat's how you say his last name
(17:09):
.
He's a doctor that he focuseson this stuff.
He had the whole practicefocused on longevity and health
span and the book is fantastic.
If you have time to read, readit.
Otherwise, get the audio book.
I found a free trial ofaudibles so I was like, well,
just listen to a book as I drive.
The book was 17 hours in audioform so it took me about I don't
(17:29):
know two months to listen tojust on the way to work my 20
minute drive to work each day.
That's a great book.
So you check it out.
And you know help in to findways to increase your health
span and longevity.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, you don't need 50 pounds of pepperoni.
You don't sound interested.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Don't need just 25 pounds but so so that's that
I'll continue to.
I'm sure next month I'll haveanother article on aging.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, super cool.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I'm half asleep right now, no, so I sound.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I know you're making us do this really early in the
morning.
I don't know if people can hearin my voice, but I mean I've
been up for several hours, butit's just the fact that it's
still.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You have to be like 8am.
Yeah, yeah.
So I found an article.
It was actually just put outtwo days ago.
Pregnancy is a brain changerthat prepares a mouse for
parenting.
When I first saw this I waslike duh.
Anyone who's had kids know thatyour brain is fried after you
have kids.
But this is cool because itkind of goes into the mechanisms
(18:37):
and why and what's changing andprecisely what it's causing.
They did different experimentswith mice having pups and what
kind of drives them to care forthose animals and what turns on
that parental instinct.
And it's estradiol andprogesterone.
But the interesting part- isSay estradiol.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Estradiol how do you say it?
Estradiol, estradiol, estradiol, estradiol, estradiol.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, estradiol.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Estradiol.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All, all, die, all, die, all.
Okay, long science words.
Anywho, those are the two.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It's not that long, it's a pretty short word.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, but it was one of those ones you have to like
sound it out Seven letters, it'snine letters.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, maybe we're talking about a different thing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Estra is five and then die all.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Four.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, see you for it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, I'm looking at it.
So anyway, they found that ifthey manually turn off these
pathways, that no, that I haveno idea, but they were finding
that the moms would not even tryto take care of their pups.
And also, alternatively, formice that did not go through
(19:50):
pregnancy or have their own pups, if they could mechanically
turn those hormones like activein the, they were calling them
virgin mice.
It was like that's a silly.
I guess they are, that's right.
Yeah, but if they couldactivate these pathways in
virgin mice, these female micewere then like trying to take
care of other pups, like give meyour pups, but they Love
(20:14):
kidnappers.
But it's interesting becausethis could kind of explain or
help treat postpartum depression.
But the other part of thisarticle is that it really does
show that pregnancy likepermanently changes the way your
brain behaves.
And obviously it says humanshave more complex brains than
mice.
There's more to learn, there'smore to look into.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I question that sometimes, though I mean so you
know what Question what.
Some people Never mind Nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
If our brains get more complex, more complex, more
complex.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Do you know whether, just to you and brains, more
complex than mice?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh yeah, for sure, I know.
I feel like the articleprobably just has to say that to
not offend people that were,you know, on the same level as a
cute little mouse.
But you made me lose my trainof thought.
You're talking about mice Seebecause I have my brain oh,
because it was the other thingit was talking about was the
female mice are just moresensitive to like little sounds
(21:12):
and movements that their pupsmake.
So that's like you know again,new moms, we're not sleeping,
you hear any little rustle andyou're like I'm awake, and so
it's kind of neat that nowscience is like acknowledging
our struggles and proving thatwe're all losing it a little bit
with these cute little kidsthat we have.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it took science to tell
us that.
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
That's like when I read the title I'm like duh, but
it is nice to read about and Ithink that the idea that maybe
there's a way to kind of look atpostpartum depression in a
different light could be helpful.
Right, so the whole time I wasjust thinking about how mice
cannibalize their young as theycome out, and so Well, this
article talks about that andit's saying, like for those mice
(21:56):
, what's going wrong where thesepathways aren't being activated
, so to speak?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That's a thing that mom mice do, and it's
interesting to laugh to, becauseit's not like they have
predators or I mean, obviouslythey probably don't love people
staring in their cages at themevery day, but yeah, Just stress
.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I wonder if it's some way to like, if they feel like
they're in a stressful or badenvironment, that they eat the
baby to like save them it awayfrom predators.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so I don't know, butother species do it.
It's not just mice.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
A lot of animals do that.
This research project was justinteresting.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
We had a document for a C-section, but it was like
delivering puppies, so obviouslywe just put it in a rod and
just let it do its thing and,fair enough, it delivered a
puppy and then started eating it.
No, yeah, but it was.
(23:02):
It was, but it didn't work.
The C-section was like a prison.
I think the puppy was alreadyhad already passed before.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Did the dog have other puppies or was it just one
puppy?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I had one before it got there, which I think forgot
to us, which was fine, and thenit just had that one other one.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Okay, hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, but it was kind of horrific.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
For a bit, so all right.
Well, thanks for the mom brainstory.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Way to dampen the mood.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Glad to know you're not coming.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
What do you think about sad dog puppy problems?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Well, maybe this will cheer you up.
Okay, all right.
So a Massachusetts companyannounced on a Wednesday, and
like literally just this pastWednesday, it has kept the
monkey alive for two whole yearsusing a kidney transplant from
a pig.
That's the longest animal hasever survived, worth an organ
(24:00):
from another animal.
And so this Massachusettscompany I didn't say who they
are and I think we talked aboutother like transplant companies.
It seems like a lot of themwanna stay kind of under the
radar and so for one reason oranother, but they made a lot of
edits.
So one of the problems andwe've talked about this before,
(24:20):
I think you talked about theheart transplant last year into
the human right.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And just how they make all these edits to the
organs to avoid the risk ofrejection.
So they made 69 different editsto again.
I don't know how they do allthat, but they do it to avoid,
like, any chance of pig virusespassing into the new host and
then to eliminate thepossibility of rejection.
(24:46):
So hopefully, now that we'vebeen able to, the company's
hoping, now that they've beenable to show this in a monkey
for two years monkeys doinggreat and having no problems or
issues according to the article,that maybe we could start
getting more animal to humantransplants, and so they see it
(25:07):
as something that's valuable.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I kinda feel like you need more than one, like an NF1
, isn't like yeah, I mean theydo need.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And well, there's other companies also doing this
right now.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
They've just had the they just have the longest, the
longest.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Okay, yeah, and some people are doing it with many
like only one edit to the organto help avoid rejection Cause.
A lot of the times, I think alot of those viruses aren't
translatable or transmissiblebetween species, but I think
other companies are findingreasons to take them out for one
reason or another.
(25:39):
Anyways, it doesn't go in toall of that, so, but we know
pigs are always a good sourcefor human organs, just cause
biology and the size of theirorgans are similar to ours.
And then you talked about theheart transplant last year, but
that happened again back inSeptember.
They had the second person toreceive a heart transplant from
(26:02):
a pig and he's doing much betterthan that first person.
The other person survived, Ithink, two months, but they were
.
We found out afterwards thatthey were in really poor health.
Yeah, it was kinda like a lastminute Hail Mary type.
Yeah, there was a lot more thanjust like the heart disease that
was going on.
This person seems like Cause.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think he didn't qualify for a human transplant.
I think that was his problem,cause he maybe was a I wanna say
he was a smoker.
Yeah, I think he was a smoker.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
A smoker.
I think he said a smoker.
He was a smoker, but so yeah,they saw he's.
You know, unfortunately I'msurvived two months with that
pig heart and this person'sgoing on about a month, but
they're doing physical therapycurrently and it looks promising
.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And so they're just gonna continue to, you know,
push the bar here and see ifthey can get approval to start
doing this more frequently.
And, honestly, for a lot ofpeople that it's their last
ditch effort.
I mean, there's more than ahundred thousand people on
Oregon transplant list in the US, and if you're not gonna get
(27:09):
one, you know I'd be willing tosay like, hey, if it's our only
shot, might as well try it andsee what happens.
And I think that's what theydid with these heart transplants
, you know there was-.
They weren't gonna get one.
They were, you know, gonnaunfortunately pass soon.
If they didn't, then this is anoption for them.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So and they'll continue to tinker with all the
genes and delete genes that theythink cause the rejection and
all of that, and they'll figureall that out and get better.
But the doctors that areinvolved and I'm gonna try to
reach out to this one and see ifwe can get him on the show,
because he's really proactiveand trying to push, I think,
(27:51):
just regulators to allowing thisto happen, and so if we can
talk to him and he can kind ofdiscuss this on podcast
platforms and whether or nothe's been on a podcast before I
don't know, but he seems likeonce to get this information out
there so maybe we can get himon here and he can talk us
through it and kind of thedifficulties and the problems
(28:13):
and pros and cons of all of it.
I think that'd be cool.
I'll reach out to him.
Hopefully we'll get him on.
Hopefully we'll have time toactually schedule an episode
with a guest at some point yeah,that would be nice.
Yeah, so, but that's that.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, should we talk about poop?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
We absolutely.
I talk about poop every day.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, you for sure, yeah.
So I always try to find likeone article that's about like a,
I'll say, a regular lab animalspecies, but then I also try to
find one that's like a creative,weird animal.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Someone had a picture of lemurs on it.
I'm like, ooh, let me see whatthis one's about.
Viruses found in animal poopmay one day treat diabetic foot
ulcers.
Scientists say so.
This group of scientists out ofEngland are kind of looking
into and have had some successwith looking for a specific
virus in various wildlife feces,specifically like hang on, the
(29:15):
list is somewhere.
Where did they go?
Lemurs, giraffes, binturongs,guinea baboons and some other
endangered species.
Because they have a very uniquegut microbiome.
So they like find thesebacteriophages and isolate the
fage so you call it fage forshort because they can hijack
(29:37):
certain bacterial cells anddestroy them from the inside out
.
But it's a virus, not anantibiotic, because obviously
we've all heard of drugresistant super bugs and issues
with that and like if you knowanyone who suffers from the
diabetes that also may have footulcer issues or ulcers
elsewhere if antibiotictreatments aren't working.
(29:59):
They're looking at these fagesas a new way of helping wounds
heal.
And the article says like we'renot going and smearing poop on
people's wounds.
They obviously clean it up,they turn it into a slurry, they
filter it, they process it andthey're kind of looking at
turning it into like an ointmentor a cream for wound healing,
(30:19):
but they're trying to isolate asmany fages as they can find out
of different species anddifferent species feces.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Wow, I'm too wester.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm not even sure what you tried to just say.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
But I just think it's really interesting because
obviously we have all heard that, like this, resistance to
antibiotics is going to be amajor problem in the next 10 to
50 years.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I mean, yeah, you know, something can come up with
a variety of fages and phageointments.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's just a new way to treat bacteria, so I think
it's an interesting conceptSounds right here.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Ally some phage ointment.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
A phage.
You need some phage.
It sounds kind of bougie, youknow like, oh, I'm gonna
prescribe you a phage ointment.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Right, that'll be their commercial kind of like
the great coupon commercialsback in the day.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, yeah, definitely .
You have to say it with anaccent like the phage.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, that's pretty cool, yeah, Nothing like some
phage ointment to wrap it all up, yep.
Oh, now I wanted to talk aboutthis is kind of a bonus article
I've never heard.
I found it at first.
I was gonna talk about it andI'm not gonna break it down, but
just in general, they haveextracted and decoded RNA from
(31:37):
an extinct animal known as theTasmanian tiger, or it's
actually called the thylacine.
Have you heard of this?
It's a wolf-like marsupial.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Do we really wanna like resurrect?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
things Do.
We wanna bring it back.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, you know, I feel like did this, like come
out of Australia, causeAustralia has like some of the
craziest.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, it came out of Australia, it's a.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Tasmanian in us.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The last one died in 1936 in a zoo, and they were
basically hunted to extinction.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, so they're not like woolly mammoth old, they're
like 100 years old, extinct.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, but they're crazy looking.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, no, that sounds terrifying.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Thylacine.
So they have almost like theback end.
Almost looks like tiger stripes.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Is it like a chupacabra?
Like a?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, and then it's a carnivore and so I just I mean,
what else does Australia need?
So might as well bring backextinct animals, and so.
But the idea now that they, nowthat they have extracted and
basically figured out the RNAsequences of this animal, I
(32:47):
guess they have ways now thatthey think that they can bring
it back.
And I don't know what kind ofregulations are involved in that
, but seems like there should bea couple.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
So oh goodness.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
That's what they're gonna try and do.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
All right.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So if you see any tiger looking marsupials running
around, Run.
This is it.
Yeah, so I thought that was.
I just thought it was kind ofcool, but not not bringing it
back, but just the animal itselfis crazy.
Maybe we'll put a picture of it.
Hey, are you doing some sort ofgiveaway?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh, yes, I am.
So, since all right, today isOctober 12th, right, I am
getting ready to post a verysilly, tiny, small fun giveaway
on Instagram.
I haven't decided on like theend date.
I'll probably run it for like10 days or two weeks or
something, but if you listen tothis episode, and if you made it
this far.
Close to well.
It depends how quickly we canget it published too, right?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, yeah, all right , that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I'll wait until it's published and then I'll post it
and it'll run for a week or two.
So if you hear this, when thisis a new episode, go to our
social media.
I'm gonna post it on Instagram,I'll post a reminder on
Facebook and then maybe in thefuture I'll do one on Facebook,
but Instagram is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, but if you're listening to this in 2024
, it's over.
All right, the giveaway is over.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
This is an October of 23 type thing, but it's just
cute little mouse swag that Ifound that I just wanted to
share with all my little mousefans.
So yeah, check that out afteryou listen to this episode.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
How's that mouse page doing?
Still crushing it?
Oh my mouse, my actual mousepage is crushing it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, I've got like 870 followers or something.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
That's more than we have, which is hilarious.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Because cute mice are the best.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
So Post us some cute mice photos, or maybe that's
what your giveaway will do.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, I can say.
And if you need more cutemouse-ness, check out this page.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, all right, cool .
Well, thanks everyone fortuning in.
Like Danielle said, check outsocial media.
Look for that giveaway.
Like us comment rate.
Review the podcast wherever youcan.
Email us LibratChat at gmailcom.
And thanks for listening andhopefully we'll be doing this
more frequently once again.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're going to try, at least on the monthly basis.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
We're going to put it value and effort into trying.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
All right, All right guys.
Thanks and we'll talk to younext time, See you.
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