April 1, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode we discuss the possibility of a connection between alcohol use and our self-esteem. We question if the way we feel about ourselves is directly related to our alcohol consumption and why people start to use alcohol at a young age to fit into social situations. We also speak about the flip side that relying on alcohol for a false sense of self confidence can impact your self-esteem long term. How continued alcohol use leads to poor decision making which perpetuate the shame cycle, which results in an overall lower self-esteem. We believe the most empowering step to increasing self-esteem is making the choice to say "No" to alcohol!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelly (00:02):
Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsey Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the LAF Lifepodcast.
This is season three, episode18, and we're going to have a
(00:48):
conversation tonight aboutsomething I thought of the other
day.
What if we treated our toxicrelationship with alcohol as a
self esteem issue?
So we're not talking aboutaddiction tonight.
We're talking about, yeah, we'renot talking about addiction
somebody who may need to go totreatment or go to detox.
(01:10):
There's been a lot of talkabout, trends in alcohol.
We did a whole episode onalcohol trends a few episodes
back.
And a common thing that we'veheard from our guests and in our
own stories is the beginningdrinking stages for a lot of
people.
It starts because for me, I wasreally shy and I was not,
(01:31):
comfortable in social situationsand, you hear people say it's a
social lubricant or liquidcourage and things like that.
Why do we need something outsideof ourselves to help us?
In those situations, why can'twe just be ourselves in those
situations?
What do you guys think?
Lindsey (01:48):
I think this is an awesome topic.
I loved it.
When you put it in our groupchat, Kelly, I was like, oh my
god, what?
an awesome perspective because,I didn't start drinking until my
20s.
I was really scared of alcohol.
I'm scared of a lot of things.
That seems to be a common themewith me, but I do remember going
(02:10):
out hanging out with friends,pre gaming before the bar, and
feeling like I needed to havedrinks to feel comfortable, for
my anxiety level to go down, forme to start worrying less, and
opening up, and talking topeople, and feeling less shy.
Kelly (02:28):
Well, a lot of people won't even get on the dance
floor unless they have somedrinks,
Lindsey (02:32):
right?
I was one of those people.
And I think you nailed itbecause I was using alcohol as a
means to cope with low selfesteem and feelings of
inadequacy.
I just remember feeling not sureof myself, not sure of who I am.
I wasn't somebody that had a lotof confidence and I definitely
(02:54):
used alcohol when going out insocial situations to calm
anxiety.
Kelly (03:00):
Yeah, I think that's so common.
Tracey (03:03):
I think it's interesting because I was saying before we
hit record that I think I have akind of unique perspective on it
because I didn't drink when Iwas young, although I was very
shy, very socially awkward.
As I had described in my ownpodcast episode, but at that
time, it didn't drive me todrink or drive me to feel like
(03:24):
needed to drink.
I was actually comfortable withbeing introverted when I was
younger, and I was always veryself aware.
I really didn't feel the need touse alcohol to become someone
else or to be someone else.
I was okay with the fact that Iwas more introverted and okay
(03:46):
with, the few people or friendsI had that I was close to and
knew when I got closer topeople, I opened up more and I
was comfortable with that.
But in saying that.
I do think that sort of ended uphappening to me later in life,
when I got into my 20s, and thenI was in a relationship with
(04:06):
someone who I told you guys wasan extreme extrovert.
That's when I started feelingmore like I needed to be more
extroverted, right?
And that I needed to keep upwith that person.
Then I started feeling less than
Lindsey (04:21):
ooh.
Kelly (04:22):
Why, what part, like what made you feel less than I think
it was the people that I wasaround.
Okay.
All of a sudden I was around adifferent circle of people that
their life was about beingsocial partying.
And everything like that, andthat wasn't who I was before and
I felt almost like a need all ofa sudden to fit in without even
(04:46):
recognizing that was happening.
It just started happening.
What I was going to say was thatLindsay, I was always scared of
alcohol and the lack of control.
I would have over myself.
I liked being in control ofmyself.
So for me, it was a biggersacrifice to lose control of
myself to be social than it wasto have the desire or need to be
(05:08):
social when I was younger.
I cared more about havingcontrol over myself.
Also because there's somealcohol abuse in your family
Trace like that.
Yeah.
You chose not to drink?
Tracey (05:19):
It could have been, but it wasn't consciously I didn't
think about that, right?
And even though it was an issuein my family, I was never
concerned about myself.
Because I just felt like I hadcontrol of myself, right?
I felt like I'm someone who'sself aware.
I'm someone that likes to be incontrol of myself.
I'm never going to have an issuewith alcohol or be a drunk per
(05:40):
se, because I don't like to feelout of control.
Lindsey (05:45):
I liked that.
I liked that feeling.
I'm such a perfectionist and sodetail oriented that I welcomed
the I don't really care so muchabout this anymore.
Or my brain isn't anxious.
I'm feeling good.
I feel let loose.
Yeah I welcomed that.
That was something that I waslike, Oh, okay.
(06:08):
Mind you, I was wildly hung overmost of the time the following
day.
But during the time that I wasdrinking and that buzz hit, I
was like, Hey, I like the way Ifeel.
I like this feeling, but.
Just like our last guestindicated, I didn't have coping
mechanisms.
I didn't have the proper copingmechanisms.
(06:29):
I almost had this feeling, likeTracey said, I had to fit in.
There wasn't really a lot oftalk in my family about And
it's, it's okay to be shy.
It's okay to be an introvert.
It's almost like going toEngland and then you start
talking with an accent and youdon't even realize it, or you do
because you're trying to fit in,and then you come home and
(06:51):
you're like, what the hell am Idoing?
Kelly (06:53):
But that's just what you said right there, Linz, like the
it's okay to be different.
It's okay to be shy.
That's self esteem.
If we spoke to all of our youngpeople, because I think if we
look back at all of our guestsand all the stories that we've
had on our podcast, the mostcommon age to start drinking is
14 years old.
That's so young.
Tracey (07:12):
I think we should also put into perspective that most
of our guests have been in ourage group from our generation,
so I think it's a generationalthing with our parents and our
upbringing.
Kelly (07:25):
Yes.
I find the young people now somuch more confident.
Like when I look at, especiallymy middle kid, I'm like in awe
of him all the time because he'sso confident.
But that's something I think.
I thought of when we talkedabout this conversation is
speaking to that the generationtoday, because we allow them to
be who they are.
(07:46):
Yeah,
Tracey (07:47):
we're not trying to repress them as much as our
parents did.
We're not saying do as I say,not as I do and having that
attitude, right?
We're giving them the freedom toexpress themselves.
And they're doing that andthat's making them feel
comfortable and confident in whothey are as an individual.
(08:08):
And I wonder if that is directlyrelated to or correlating with
the fact that it seems that alot of younger people are making
the choice not to drink.
Kelly (08:18):
That's right.
I would say, yeah, probably.
Yeah, I agree.
Tracey (08:24):
Going back to you for one sec, Linz, I wanted to say,
when you're talking to, you likethat feeling.
Do you think you like thatfeeling because it was making
you feel more confident?
Lindsey (08:35):
Yes.
I think it made me feel moreconfident it was fake.
It's a facade, right?
Because it's brought on by asubstance.
And when that substance wearsoff, here's the flip side of
this.
You're creating that cycle,then, where you rely on it to
feel good about yourself, andthen that eventually leads to
(08:55):
further decline in your selfesteem, because then, You're not
able to control the drinking andyou start making bad decisions
because your brain is shut offand then you wake up the next
day.
You don't remember what you didor you hear stories about the
ridiculous crap that you did andsaid, and you're embarrassed and
(09:19):
you feel shame.
And that lowers your selfesteem, but then the next time
you're out, it's a cycle.
You use the substance to drinkbecause you think it's bringing
you more confidence, and you'reable to let loose.
And it's so hard to see when ittips over that line,
Tracey (09:37):
yeah.
I can relate to all of that.
Yes.
And I have, pondered reallythought too deeply about it.
When did it for me, go fromAbusing alcohol to addiction,
and I try and think whathappened in this year?
I see a Facebook memory orsomething like that.
There was a point where itswitched to something I couldn't
(09:58):
live without anymore, as opposedto something I had just been
abusing for so many years.
Lindsey (10:03):
I was definitely abusing it.
And then I'm like I can go sixmonths without drinking it.
And I had, right?
Because then I was like, okay,that was my way to take back
that control because I feltlike, okay, every time I go out,
I'm drinking.
If I'm at an event and there'sno drinking, I can't wait to get
my ass home to drink by myself,and I found I was doing a lot of
(10:24):
drinking at the end, it wasmostly on my own, I was alone.
I'm isolating myself now, lowerself esteem, I'm puffy, I'm
gaining weight, I feel likecrap, making bad decisions,
Kelly (10:37):
it's just like an instant gratification or just feeling
something exactly for such ashort time.
I saw something on Instagramthat was like, be weary.
Maybe that's not the word, bemindful of things that cause.
Intense dopamine immediately,really be mindful of those
things because that usuallycomes with consequences after
Tracey (11:01):
I think that if you really think about your drinking
history if I look at mine, andI'm sure you to I know that it
was a direct correlation, theamount I was drinking with the
things that were going on in mylife.
Yeah.
Bingo.
When my drinking started toincrease, it was definitely due
(11:22):
to the circumstances of thingsthat were happening in my life
they were happening so regularlythat I didn't even have time to
process them emotionally anddidn't want to, it was just
almost too much.
Yeah.
To the point where.
You want to face it.
Yeah.
I just kept using the wine toflush it down, to flush it down.
Lindsey (11:44):
That was me.
You nailed it, Tracey.
Yes.
Yes.
Tracey (11:47):
Speaking to the flip side of that, I would say the
biggest impact that it had on myself esteem was when I was in
the thralls of my deepestdrinking, because that's when it
was affecting my self esteem.
And making my self esteemactually low at that point.
I don't think I started out withlow self esteem.
(12:09):
I think that was a result of mydrinking.
It's interesting because ourguests last week, and I know we
talked about this on theprevious episode we had too,
about the whole curiosity thing,right?
Yeah.
How drinking stalls yourcuriosity or puts it on pause?
And I feel like drinking didthat for me with my self
(12:29):
awareness.
I feel like I was a super selfaware person and then the more I
drank, the more I lost touchwith myself and the more I lost
that.
It brings you further away fromyou.
Yes.
I feel like my self awarenesswent from like an 8 down to a 4
and then I had to work so hardwhen I stopped drinking to get
(12:51):
it back up to the 8.
So it was like almostrediscovering myself over again
for me instead of, rediscoveringmyself for the first time as a
lot of other people describe.
And I think that has to do withwhen I started drinking and how
I was older and more mature.
Yeah.
Lindsey (13:08):
Ah, yeah.
Do you think Tracey then, causenow I'm thinking about it
related to my situation.
Do you think then that becauseyou and I are very similar.
We started drinking alcohol whenwe were older.
Yeah.
In our 20s and stuff, right?
But that's the time when you aresupposed to be on this self
exploration and a journey to whoyou are.
(13:31):
But When you're drinking andyour vibration is so low and
your self awareness goes from aneight to a four and you're
spending all those years in thatfour, finally, then when you
come to your senses and you'relike, this substance is keeping
me low, then it's later in life.
Then you're here in your latethirties and forties having to
do the work that should havebeen accomplished in your
(13:51):
twenties.
And now I'm feeling like.
Hearing you verbalize this,maybe this is why I made such
poor decisions, say with a lifepartner.
I married the wrong person or, Iscrewed up in this aspect of my
life because I was vibing atsuch a low level and I didn't do
any of the self discovery workthat I should have been.
Tracey (14:12):
Totally.
I can totally relate to that.
That's the thing.
Before I started drinking in myearly 20s was some of the most
introspective.
I had ever been.
I was reading a lot of self helpbooks.
I was really in tune with myselfprior to meeting my ex partner.
And he was a bartender too,right?
(14:32):
So like 21 to 25, honestly, Ifelt very in tune with myself.
I was living on my own.
I was very independent.
I was, starting my career.
I was driven.
And those are all the thingsthat I talk about.
So I ended up with a partner.
I want to speak to this, too,because you might be able to
relate to this, too, Lindsay.
(14:54):
I ended up with a partner whowas very emotionally immature.
So I feel like.
His stagnation created that samestagnation for me.
I started becoming stagnantbecause he was stagnant
emotionally.
He wasn't someone who wanted tobe self aware or was, heading in
(15:15):
the direction of trying toimprove himself.
Or anything like that, and I'mnot blaming him.
I just think the dynamics of ourrelationship and that choice in
that partner held me back.
From myself, I can definitelyrelate for sure.
Exactly to your point Linds inthose crucial developmental
(15:35):
years, where you would be,discovering yourself, building
your career and all that.
Choosing a partner that is at astandstill is not ideal for
those crucial years of yourlife.
Then you end up being like us orme, a late bloomer, as I like to
call myself.
Lindsey (15:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, let's talkabout too, when we're saying low
self esteem or low confidence, Ifeel like that can manifest in a
number of different ways.
And when I think about thisstuff, I was like, okay.
Was this me when I was drinking?
Yes.
Number one, negative self talk.
If you're somebody with low selfesteem, you're constantly
(16:17):
criticizing yourself, or you'refocusing on your weaknesses, and
you have a really pessimisticoutlook.
I know that's something thatI've now been working on, but
that was totally me.
When I was drinking, or theother thing too, with a low self
esteem is seeking validation.
You rely so heavily on somebodyelse's approval with any little
(16:39):
decision in your life.
Or you're seeking validation tofeel worthy or accepted.
What do I look like in thisoutfit?
Or does this make me look thisway?
Or, do you think that this is agood idea?
You just constantly wantsomebody to validate you.
Or another big thing wasperfectionism, having these
unrealistic standards and thenfeeling like crap when you're
(17:01):
not able to meet them.
I think perfectionism can alsobe a self esteem indicator Oh,
for sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
And the big one was avoidingchallenges, avoiding new
experiences, avoiding challengesbecause you're fearful of
failing and you just lackconfidence altogether.
And I know I definitely didthat.
(17:22):
I was doing my best drinking bymyself.
Social withdrawal.
Feeling uncomfortable in socialsituations.
Then you just drink more.
And what about this one?
Difficulty accepting acompliment.
That's a hard one for me.
Just working on saying thank youinstead of no, that's not true
or whatever.
(17:42):
These are some indicators Ithink of somebody that may be
has low self esteem.
Tracey (17:49):
Yeah, for sure.
Because I think like theperfectionism for instance, is
trying to meet somebody else'sstandards or expectations,
right?
Instead of just.
Setting your own goals or,aspirations for yourself and
being comfortable.
With your progress to them,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kelly (18:08):
okay, I have a question going back to, I think something
that Tracey said a while ago.
Talking about drinking to fit into a situation.
Do you guys think that's anindicator that you're hanging
out with the wrong people?
Oh, that's a great question.
Yeah.
Lindsey (18:24):
That, I think, yeah, looking back on the people that
I was surrounding myself with,including a boyfriend and his
friends, they were definitelynot my people.
Tracey (18:34):
I agree.
And going back to what I wassaying to about that scenario,
like you guys said, why do youthink that you felt like you had
to start drinking and I said,because of the people I was
hanging around.
So if I think about it in stagesof life, I think in high school,
I had my secure friend group.
So I was comfortable being me.
Doing my thing and not having toprove myself to anybody else,
(18:57):
right?
I was comfortable with thepeople in my surroundings.
But then going into my 20s, myfriend group completely changed.
So it was like, once I wasintroduced to this unfamiliar
environment, then I felt more ofthe need to fit in because these
people didn't know me.
I didn't have thatcomfortability level with them.
(19:17):
And I'm not going to act likethere probably wasn't pressure,
not necessarily maybe from thatindividual.
Maybe I was putting it on myselfto feel like I had to keep up
with that big personality, thatcharisma, and that big, huge
extrovert that I was with.
Right.
Kelly (19:35):
Yeah.
What about I believe thatthere's probably a good number
of people that are in a newsituation, like newly separated
or newly divorced.
So women, maybe in their 30s and40s.
that increase their drinkingbecause maybe the self esteem is
low because they don't know howto be in that new space in this
(19:55):
new life.
Lindsey (19:55):
And it's uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I think uncomfortability, likediscomfort is one of the major
triggers for consuming alcohol.
Yeah.
And discomfort with what?
I think that's a self esteem.
Yeah.
Discomfort with yourself.
Yeah.
Discomfort for sure withyourself.
Tracey (20:13):
I can speak to that directly because I was drinking
when I was dating after Iseparated.
You two, you did the datingthing sober.
Yeah, and I don't doubt that wasa contributing factor either 100
percent when I was back in thedating world at 40 after, 15
years of not dating.
(20:33):
I didn't do it great the 1sttime because I was an introvert,
let alone having to do it againat 40 with a kid.
Being rusty is like anunderstatement in those
circumstances.
So I definitely was utilizingalcohol to get me through that.
There's no doubt.
Kelly (20:52):
I separated a year after I stopped drinking and that's
not something I thought of atfirst but then you know once
everything was done and gettingsettled and I was moving out and
stuff like that I was like oh mygod I'm gonna have to do this.
date without alcohol.
I can't really, but it wasn't.
Tracey (21:08):
Were you ever tempted, Kel?
Were you ever I don't think Ican do this.
Kelly (21:12):
No.
Tracey (21:13):
That's good.
You were very strong in yoursobriety then.
Lindsey (21:17):
I felt like that was a good thing to be dating without
alcohol because I had datedWhile drinking, and it didn't go
very well I feel like that's whyI ended up with the wrong person
for me, because alcohol, likeit's easy to get along with
people and tolerate people andoverlook things and, red flags
(21:40):
those gut feelings.
It's easy to just have thatglass of wine and be like, ah,
we'll figure that out later.
Or, maybe it's just a one off.
You care less, I think, or youthink you have a connection with
somebody, but it's like goinginto something like that meeting
new people sober.
You really know if there's aconnection, a genuine one or
(22:00):
not.
Of course, nerves are normal, ifsomebody that you're with are
sitting across and you justlike, dang this would be so much
easier with a drink.
I feel like that might not besomebody for you, whether it's a
friend or a potential partner.
Kelly (22:17):
Oh, yeah.
That's the biggest green flag.
I think of all in dating is justbe yourself.
Tracey (22:22):
Oh, I think there was totally people that I connected
with just because we both drank,right?
It's that's what we had incommon, so that would be your
source of entertainment.
We can just go out and havedrinks.
I spent 13 years in arelationship with someone like
that.
But that was our relationship.
It was built on a on a drinkingbuddy.
I definitely carried on into mydating life when I was still
(22:47):
drinking.
And that is something that I dothink about sometimes what if I
had to chose a differentpartner?
Because my partner by totalfluke doesn't drink.
And I can't say that didn'tsomewhat influence me.
I think very unconsciously.
Yeah, in my decision to stop, soif I had have ended up with
(23:09):
someone that was a drinker,would I have stopped?
Or it might have been a lotlonger before I realized I
should and where would I havebeen at then, right?
I feel very thankful for that.
There's a part of me that feelslike that certain individual and
type of person came into my lifefor a reason.
(23:31):
That was one of those momentswhere the universe was guiding
me to.
The place that I should begoing.
Lindsey (23:38):
What are things that people can do to work on self
esteem?
Kelly (23:41):
That's what I was just thinking.
Yeah, like at a young age.
At a young age?
When, before they're introducedto alcohol, one of the things
I've always said to my boys islike, you don't have to drink.
It's not a thing you have to do.
Because I feel like it's so mucha part of our culture and they
have grown up with it.
They've grown up around a lot ofalcohol.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(24:01):
But yeah you don't have to drinkand the message that I got was
like, don't drink.
Lindsey (24:06):
That's what I got too.
Or else.
Kelly (24:08):
There was nothing else, but I love what we talked about
at the beginning of it's okay tobe different.
It's okay to be shy.
It's okay to not want to go tothe party too.
Tracey (24:19):
But I think it starts with us as parents, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
I think we have to continue to.
Encourage our young people andour kids to be themselves and
comfortable with that.
I tell my daughter all the timethat it's okay if she's curious,
but it's also okay if she's notinterested and she says no.
(24:41):
And if people aren't going to beyour friend because of that
they're not your friends.
They're not your people, right?
If they are your friends,they're going to accept.
You don't want to do it and beokay with it.
And I think that I did havethose type of friends.
My friends were okay with thefact that I didn't drink.
They never pushed me into it.
So I think that was part of whyI was very comfortable to
(25:02):
growing up.
My best friend didn't reallydrink herself and then I had
other friends that drank, butthey never influenced me to do
it.
And they were content because Iwas a designated DD.
So they always had to drivesomeone to get them home safe.
Kelly (25:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsey (25:20):
I think we have to create wins.
You've got to create little winsfor yourself.
And I think, when you're 15, 16,17 what can those wins look
like?
I think just saving money that'ssomething that, That wasn't
something that was talked aboutin my household.
And I remember living at homeand working a professional job
out of university and stillliving at home for a year after
(25:42):
that and spending everythingthat I made.
But I feel like, there's acertain sense of confidence that
also comes when you're in ahabit and a routine and it's a
positive thing, like savingmoney or investing money.
And, you see these thingsgrowing or, Healthy living
learning how to cook healthyrecipes, learning what, makes
your body feel good.
(26:02):
What kind of foods, what kindof, beverages and yeah, like
doing some kind of activity thatyou enjoy.
I didn't really have a lot ofhobbies and I didn't really
explore a lot of things likethat when I was a teenager.
And a lot of that had to do withlow self esteem, but I also
(26:22):
really didn't know how to buildon that, but it's just stacking
little wins
Kelly (26:28):
yeah, that's really good ones.
I love that.
Tracey (26:30):
Oh, I think encouraging curiosity and discovery.
You're saying continuing toencourage that, encourage kids
to be curious to exploredifferent things and without
putting a lot of pressure onthem, because I think there's a
flip side to that.
It's great that kids getinvolved in competitive sports
and stuff, but I feel like thatcan come with a lot of pressure.
(26:54):
Oh, that's yeah, there can benegative.
Impacts and effects on that.
Yes, it can create a lot of selfdiscipline, and it can even
create social skills, being apart of a team and stuff, but it
can have negative impact to onkids, having high expectations
of themselves feeling like, theyhave to, reach certain goals or
(27:16):
be competitive, and those canhave negative implications to so
I think parents have to have abalance and be mindful of that
as well.
Kelly (27:26):
Yeah, the pressure could lead kids to drink as an escape
I don't know how I got out ofparenting three boys without
hockey, but that can be prettyintense, on the whole family.
Yeah.
But probably because you didn'tput that pressure on them Kelly?
Yeah.
Like I didn't with my daughtereither.
It was like, what are youinterested in?
Yes, you wanna try something,then you try it.
(27:48):
My daughter was never interestedin sports.
She did dance, she didgymnastics, and she was just
interested in it because sheenjoyed it and leisurely, she
never wanted to be competitiveabout it.
She wasn't really, aggressive inher pursuit of it.
so I never forced her, I neverpushed her, I gave her the
option to try different thingsand put different things out to
(28:10):
her, but let it inevitably beher decision.
And I think that's it, givingkids autonomy, right?
Yeah.
To add to your list that I loveabout, curiosity and creativity
and, time and nature.
Yeah, creative elements arehuge.
Time to do nothing.
Tracey (28:28):
But like we say too practice, right?
Practice is what createseverything, right?
Creates a habit, createshobbies.
Encourage them to practice.
Different things.
Try yoga.
Try drawing, try photography,whatever it is.
Yeah.
And yeah, get off your phone.
Yeah, that's a good one too.
(28:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
These devices are creating a lotof anxiety.
And self esteem issues, becauseall the world showing them is a
bunch of fake shit.
Perfection.
There's nothing realisticthey're seeing on any kind of
social media platform that.
Give them a real perspective onwhat life looks like for normal
(29:13):
Joe real.
Yeah.
Lindsey (29:14):
Then, I have a question what for you guys, how have you
personally addressed any selfesteem issues in relation to
your own.
Alcohol use you ask that again?
Sorry.
How have you addressed.
Any self esteem issues inrelation to your own alcohol
(29:35):
use, what are some things thatyou've done or you're continuing
to do to address any, if therewere any self esteem.
Kelly (29:43):
Oh, I think a hundred percent.
The reason why I starteddrinking was low self esteem and
it was like Tracey was talkingabout earlier, that suppression
of who I was really meant to be.
And just living a lifesuppressed and now giving myself
the opportunity to just be who Iam like the last six years has
been, understanding who Iactually am as a person, and
(30:05):
then giving myself back all ofthose things that I missed.
Like we're talking about likethe creativity and the time of
nature.
Lindsey (30:12):
How are you giving those things back to yourself?
I go outside and play and I doall the things that I want to do
and express myself and learn howto express myself.
That was a big thing for me wasusing my voice.
That's probably been the biggestthing I've had to overcome is to
speak and speak my truth.
I love that.
Oh my goodness.
Tracey (30:31):
I think the first thing you do is decide not to use
alcohol.
Kelly (30:36):
Yeah.
That's a huge self esteembooster.
Tracey (30:40):
That in itself, but I think exactly what Kel said I
think as you do more selfdiscovery, the more confident
and comfortable you feel in yourown skin and then naturally that
boosts your self esteem puttingboundaries in place.
Yes.
Yeah, I think that the more youjust give yourself forgiveness
(31:00):
as well.
Give yourself a break, don't beso hard on yourself and realize
that you're human.
Forgive yourself.
Still working on that one.
Yeah.
Giving myself.
Grace.
Exactly.
That was the word I was lookingfor, Kel.
Trust me, it's still hard for metoo.
Lindsey (31:15):
I think it's hard for everybody.
It's always going to be a workin progress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about you, Lins?
Yeah, for me, it is doing thingsevery day that empower me in
terms of health.
That means moving my body everyday.
That means supplements.
(31:37):
That means reading books.
I was doing a lot of reading.
Podcast listening as I get readyfor work in the morning or
listening to a book on audible.
And then even with the workingout, as you continue to show up
for yourself and you don't breakthe promise, cause it's easy to
say I'm tired and I don't wantto work out today.
Like I'm tired.
(31:58):
But when you do it and you showup for yourself, that's a little
win.
And when you do it again thenext day and the next day and
the next day, you start tobecome somebody that you can
trust, you're not breakingpromises to yourself, right?
And then you do get moreconfident.
In yourself, because you'reworking towards something you're
(32:19):
feeling good.
And these things are hard,right?
You're showing up for the hardstuff and you're doing it and
you feel really good after that.
And you're like, yes, I did it.
I showed up.
I was tired.
I was in a grumpy mood.
I had a really bad day at work,but you know what?
I took a break.
45 minutes and I did somethingpositive for my body, and not
necessarily if you hate running,then maybe don't do that, find
(32:42):
something that you resonatewith.
And I think it's going to bedifferent for everybody, but
yeah, little things like that,really focusing on the things
that I can control.
And then also learning that thethings that I can't control
there's a book that I juststarted.
It was like, don't sweat thesmall stuff.
It's all small stuff inbrackets, like it's just little
things like that.
(33:03):
Okay, so this went wrong today.
I would normally drive to theliquor store and get two bottles
of wine, but you know what?
Instead.
I'm going to get on the Pelotonand I'm going to do a bike ride
or I'm going to go for a walk orI'm going to make some popcorn
and watch a movie without wine.
And then as you get throughthings, as you're able to get
through challenges, you're like,wow, okay, I can do this and
(33:26):
bonus.
I don't feel like shit the nextday.
Cool.
Yeah, I like what you said aboutcontrol.
There's a whole lot that wecan't control.
No, yeah, there's a whole lotthat we can't control.
Tracey (33:38):
I like the expression.
I just used this with my teamthe other day.
You know that we have no controlover what anybody else does.
We only have control over ourown reaction to it.
Lindsey (33:50):
Exactly.
That is right.
And you can feel emotions youcan really feel emotions, but
you can control how you react tohow you feel those emotions.
That's 1 thing that I think at aconference, I was listening to a
speaker.
And she was talking about beingan emotionally strong leader and
feeling emotions and they can betotally out of control, but then
(34:13):
controlling how you react tothem.
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Like you're not able to controlemotions.
They come, they're going tocome.
They're going to kick you in theass.
You're going to be raged.
You're going to be crying.
You're going to feel likepunching someone in the face,
but like how you react that'spractice.
That's something that you canlearn how to control despite
feeling.
Tracey (34:32):
Yeah.
That's when you need Eva for thesomatic experience.
Yes.
Yes.
That's exactly when you usethat.
Amazing.
Did I say that on a recordingthat I had a session with her
and she was just Yeah, you did.
Oh, I'm going to book anotherone with her.
I love that.
I want to go back to What youtouched on there to Linds and
we've talked about it's reallywho you surround yourself with
(34:55):
to and what you're feeding yourmind when you speak to books and
podcasts and stuff like that.
And I think it's very importantto point out to people to try
not to focus on the exterior foryour self esteem.
Yes.
And that the less you focus onyour exterior and the more you
focus on your interior.
That is going to come out on theexterior.
Lindsey (35:18):
Yes, I agree with that.
Everybody on social media usesfilters and Oh, hell yeah! Other
things, but they're not real.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think too, like when Iused to hear people say, It's
who you surround yourself with.
And I was like, I have twofriends but here's the thing.
(35:38):
It's, it doesn't evennecessarily have to be real
people.
Who you surround yourself withis your social media feed, your.
What your podcasts are like yourbooks, those also are people
that you're surrounding yourselfwith who you surround yourself
with.
So Google some inspirationalpeople, there are so many
accounts on Instagram that areabout empowerment and, working
(36:02):
on yourself and self esteem andall these things.
And, there's a lot of greatalcohol free.
Kelly (36:09):
Let's say one favorite podcast.
Everybody.
Other than ours.
Obviously, I know.
LAF life, duh.
But Lewis house, the school ofgreatness.
Oh, he's so good.
He's so good.
He's getting better and better.
Yeah.
He's on this.
He's on the journey and we're onit with him.
He's he is on the journey andhe's so open and honest about
(36:29):
it, which I love.
Tracey (36:31):
I love Mel Robbins.
I do love Mel Robbins becauseshe's a straight shooter and
she's okay to admit her faultsand so I like that there's no
kind of bullshit or fluff.
And I like that.
I think she does a good job withher guests and how she asks
questions and really I thinkchallenges things too.
Lindsey (36:51):
Yeah.
What's one for you, Kel?
Kelly (36:53):
Rich Roll.
I love him.
Oh yeah.
I post what, I post a lot of hisRich Roll.
He's so looking an up.
He's very handsome.
Oh.
He's a plant-based triathletewas a lawyer until he is 40
years old and like justcompletely turned his life
around and he's super Thepodcast.
(37:13):
Yeah.
Okay.
Great conversation.
Lindsey (37:15):
I'm to it.
Going to follow it right now.
Follow.
Okay.
Tracey (37:19):
I wanted to make one more point on the self esteem.
I think one of the biggestthings people need to do too is
drop any comparisons.
Stop comparing yourself toanybody else.
Oh, that's such a good one.
Yes.
Your life to anybody else'slife.
Lindsey (37:35):
That's a self esteem killer.
That's a really
Tracey (37:37):
good one.
Yeah.
Any comparisons.
Kelly (37:39):
That's a really important thing to teach our young people.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Especially with the social mediaoutlets we are now.
And what I was going to sayabout that how the social media
and the devices are creating somuch anxiety, they're looking
for a relief from that anxiety.
So you know, they are in dangerof, heading down the road to
(37:59):
abusing alcohol
Lindsey (38:00):
Yeah.
Other substances.
I would, yeah.
And I would say that if there isone thing you're gonna tell your
kids to do, tell them to droptheir phone every once in a
while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And make them take a break or dosomething.
Yeah.
Outside of being locked in theroom on their phone.
Yes.
Yep.
Drag'em outside.
Kelly (38:19):
I'm just thinking of my youngest, only one that left
living with me, but.
He likes to cook.
So I'll just ask him for helpwith dinner and like he'll come
and chop up vegetables orwhatever.
And, he can make a whole meal,but that's yeah.
What kind of things like does.
Maddy liked to do Trace.
That's great, Kel.
I like that.
I don't make Maddy get in thekitchen with me.
And you know what?
My mom never did that with meeither.
(38:40):
And I should because I love tocook and I didn't learn anything
from my mom.
Lindsey (38:45):
You're great.
First of all, you're great atcooking and your recipes.
I'm like, whoa.
Tracey (38:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of people enjoy mycooking.
That's what I hear when I cookfor other people, but even my
kid actually enjoys my cooking.
She will often say, that's good.
Yours is way better.
Kelly (39:01):
It is good.
Tracey (39:04):
But I don't.
I don't,
Kelly (39:06):
How does she drop her phone there?
No, I'm not asking if you can, Ithink
Tracey (39:09):
you're inspiring me.
No, they're good.
I will just tell her like, we'regoing to do this or, we need to
spend time together.
I'll remind her, get off yourphone.
I'll make her watch a show withme and I'll say, yeah, touch
your phone.
No, respond to that right now,you're spending time with your
(39:30):
mom.
Yeah,
Lindsey (39:32):
I love that.
Kelly (39:33):
Yeah, that's good.
Lindsey (39:34):
I think this was a good chat, you guys.
I think so, too.
Yeah.
Yeah, it just came into my headthe other day, just about self
esteem.
What if instead of, all of theseother things that we focus on,
what if we thought about it as aself esteem issue and especially
with our young people.
You don't have to drink! Youreally don't have to.
(39:55):
Yeah, you don't have to.
You really don't.
And there's lots ofreplacements, lots of
replacements.
Tracey (40:01):
How you phrased it, Kel, like if you look at the toxic
relationship you have withalcohol, any toxic relationships
really stem from low selfesteem, right?
including the one you have withdrinking.
Lindsey (40:14):
Yeah.
That's what you allow.
Allow in your life.
It's how you allow people totreat you, what you allow into.
Kelly (40:22):
Yeah.
I thought it was, I thought itwas a thing I had to do.
Lindsey (40:26):
I think I did too.
Much a part of my life.
I thought I had
Tracey (40:29):
I think that's what everybody thinks because that's
what's drilled into our head byall the social media and
marketing of, alcohol.
So I think we all feel like it'ssomething we have to do.
When you turn 18 in Canada, ifyou're listening, it's when
you're in Manitoba, at least,it's like when you turn 18,
(40:50):
what's the thing you get to do?
Everybody knows it's drink.
That's the legal age.
So it's like, how can we makethat an age that you turn?
Kelly (40:59):
That is something we see on social media, right?
Or I've seen regularly on socialmedias when a parent has a child
that turns said it's 18.
So 18, 19, 21, and they takethem out for drinks and post
pictures of their alcoholicbeverages.
It's we can stop doing that anyday now.
Cause that's pretty toxic.
Lindsey (41:17):
That is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Stop encouraging that.
Like it's a rite of passage,right?
Yeah.
That is How it's.
Tracey (41:26):
I think it's very important to speak to the
negative impact alcohol has onyour self esteem once you start
getting into an abusiverelationship with it.
I think that's very key foranybody who, is drinking and
finds that they're Drinking isprogressing to keep that in
mind, especially if they feellike they're in a low place that
(41:48):
it could be a direct result of.
And correlating with how muchthey are drinking
Lindsey (41:54):
It can cause or be a trigger for depression because
it screws up all the chemicalsin your brain, right?
So if it's messing withchemicals and maybe your self
esteem, you haven't done a lotto work on it or develop it.
Now you're feeling depressed andanxious.
It's just a disaster.
It becomes this cycle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tracey (42:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kelly (42:15):
Thanks guys.
Thanks for.
Lindsey (42:17):
Yeah.
This is a good chat.
Oh, I want to thank ourlisteners again for tuning in
and do us a big favor.
It would really mean a lot to usif you hit that follow button.
So follow our show.
If you thought this was helpfulin any way, send it out to a
friend.
You never know.
who is struggling or who you canhelp.
(42:38):
You can find us on Instagram atLAF life podcast and head on
over to Facebook.
We have a group there as wellunder LAF life podcast, where we
make some posts and there'sdiscussion happening in there.
We just launched our website,laflifepodcast.
com.
We will see you back here nextTuesday with a brand new
(42:58):
episode.
Thanks for listening guys.
See you soon.
And you know what to do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (43:04):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
on social media and tell yourfriends.
We love getting your feedbackand ideas of what you'd like to
hear on upcoming episodes of theLAF life podcast.
If you yourself are livingalcohol free and want to share
your story here, please reachout.
Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsey Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the LAF Lifepodcast.
This is season three, episode18, and we're going to have a
(00:48):
conversation tonight aboutsomething I thought of the other
day.
What if we treated our toxicrelationship with alcohol as a
self esteem issue?
So we're not talking aboutaddiction tonight.
We're talking about, yeah, we'renot talking about addiction
somebody who may need to go totreatment or go to detox.
(01:10):
There's been a lot of talkabout, trends in alcohol.
We did a whole episode onalcohol trends a few episodes
back.
And a common thing that we'veheard from our guests and in our
own stories is the beginningdrinking stages for a lot of
people.
It starts because for me, I wasreally shy and I was not,
(01:31):
comfortable in social situationsand, you hear people say it's a
social lubricant or liquidcourage and things like that.
Why do we need something outsideof ourselves to help us?
In those situations, why can'twe just be ourselves in those
situations?
What do you guys think?
Lindsey (01:48):
I think this is an awesome topic.
I loved it.
When you put it in our groupchat, Kelly, I was like, oh my
god, what?
an awesome perspective because,I didn't start drinking until my
20s.
I was really scared of alcohol.
I'm scared of a lot of things.
That seems to be a common themewith me, but I do remember going
(02:10):
out hanging out with friends,pre gaming before the bar, and
feeling like I needed to havedrinks to feel comfortable, for
my anxiety level to go down, forme to start worrying less, and
opening up, and talking topeople, and feeling less shy.
Kelly (02:28):
Well, a lot of people won't even get on the dance
floor unless they have somedrinks,
Lindsey (02:32):
right?
I was one of those people.
And I think you nailed itbecause I was using alcohol as a
means to cope with low selfesteem and feelings of
inadequacy.
I just remember feeling not sureof myself, not sure of who I am.
I wasn't somebody that had a lotof confidence and I definitely
(02:54):
used alcohol when going out insocial situations to calm
anxiety.
Kelly (03:00):
Yeah, I think that's so common.
Tracey (03:03):
I think it's interesting because I was saying before we
hit record that I think I have akind of unique perspective on it
because I didn't drink when Iwas young, although I was very
shy, very socially awkward.
As I had described in my ownpodcast episode, but at that
time, it didn't drive me todrink or drive me to feel like
(03:24):
needed to drink.
I was actually comfortable withbeing introverted when I was
younger, and I was always veryself aware.
I really didn't feel the need touse alcohol to become someone
else or to be someone else.
I was okay with the fact that Iwas more introverted and okay
(03:46):
with, the few people or friendsI had that I was close to and
knew when I got closer topeople, I opened up more and I
was comfortable with that.
But in saying that.
I do think that sort of ended uphappening to me later in life,
when I got into my 20s, and thenI was in a relationship with
(04:06):
someone who I told you guys wasan extreme extrovert.
That's when I started feelingmore like I needed to be more
extroverted, right?
And that I needed to keep upwith that person.
Then I started feeling less than
Lindsey (04:21):
ooh.
Kelly (04:22):
Why, what part, like what made you feel less than I think
it was the people that I wasaround.
Okay.
All of a sudden I was around adifferent circle of people that
their life was about beingsocial partying.
And everything like that, andthat wasn't who I was before and
I felt almost like a need all ofa sudden to fit in without even
(04:46):
recognizing that was happening.
It just started happening.
What I was going to say was thatLindsay, I was always scared of
alcohol and the lack of control.
I would have over myself.
I liked being in control ofmyself.
So for me, it was a biggersacrifice to lose control of
myself to be social than it wasto have the desire or need to be
(05:08):
social when I was younger.
I cared more about havingcontrol over myself.
Also because there's somealcohol abuse in your family
Trace like that.
Yeah.
You chose not to drink?
Tracey (05:19):
It could have been, but it wasn't consciously I didn't
think about that, right?
And even though it was an issuein my family, I was never
concerned about myself.
Because I just felt like I hadcontrol of myself, right?
I felt like I'm someone who'sself aware.
I'm someone that likes to be incontrol of myself.
I'm never going to have an issuewith alcohol or be a drunk per
(05:40):
se, because I don't like to feelout of control.
Lindsey (05:45):
I liked that.
I liked that feeling.
I'm such a perfectionist and sodetail oriented that I welcomed
the I don't really care so muchabout this anymore.
Or my brain isn't anxious.
I'm feeling good.
I feel let loose.
Yeah I welcomed that.
That was something that I waslike, Oh, okay.
(06:08):
Mind you, I was wildly hung overmost of the time the following
day.
But during the time that I wasdrinking and that buzz hit, I
was like, Hey, I like the way Ifeel.
I like this feeling, but.
Just like our last guestindicated, I didn't have coping
mechanisms.
I didn't have the proper copingmechanisms.
(06:29):
I almost had this feeling, likeTracey said, I had to fit in.
There wasn't really a lot oftalk in my family about And
it's, it's okay to be shy.
It's okay to be an introvert.
It's almost like going toEngland and then you start
talking with an accent and youdon't even realize it, or you do
because you're trying to fit in,and then you come home and
(06:51):
you're like, what the hell am Idoing?
Kelly (06:53):
But that's just what you said right there, Linz, like the
it's okay to be different.
It's okay to be shy.
That's self esteem.
If we spoke to all of our youngpeople, because I think if we
look back at all of our guestsand all the stories that we've
had on our podcast, the mostcommon age to start drinking is
14 years old.
That's so young.
Tracey (07:12):
I think we should also put into perspective that most
of our guests have been in ourage group from our generation,
so I think it's a generationalthing with our parents and our
upbringing.
Kelly (07:25):
Yes.
I find the young people now somuch more confident.
Like when I look at, especiallymy middle kid, I'm like in awe
of him all the time because he'sso confident.
But that's something I think.
I thought of when we talkedabout this conversation is
speaking to that the generationtoday, because we allow them to
be who they are.
(07:46):
Yeah,
Tracey (07:47):
we're not trying to repress them as much as our
parents did.
We're not saying do as I say,not as I do and having that
attitude, right?
We're giving them the freedom toexpress themselves.
And they're doing that andthat's making them feel
comfortable and confident in whothey are as an individual.
(08:08):
And I wonder if that is directlyrelated to or correlating with
the fact that it seems that alot of younger people are making
the choice not to drink.
Kelly (08:18):
That's right.
I would say, yeah, probably.
Yeah, I agree.
Tracey (08:24):
Going back to you for one sec, Linz, I wanted to say,
when you're talking to, you likethat feeling.
Do you think you like thatfeeling because it was making
you feel more confident?
Lindsey (08:35):
Yes.
I think it made me feel moreconfident it was fake.
It's a facade, right?
Because it's brought on by asubstance.
And when that substance wearsoff, here's the flip side of
this.
You're creating that cycle,then, where you rely on it to
feel good about yourself, andthen that eventually leads to
(08:55):
further decline in your selfesteem, because then, You're not
able to control the drinking andyou start making bad decisions
because your brain is shut offand then you wake up the next
day.
You don't remember what you didor you hear stories about the
ridiculous crap that you did andsaid, and you're embarrassed and
(09:19):
you feel shame.
And that lowers your selfesteem, but then the next time
you're out, it's a cycle.
You use the substance to drinkbecause you think it's bringing
you more confidence, and you'reable to let loose.
And it's so hard to see when ittips over that line,
Tracey (09:37):
yeah.
I can relate to all of that.
Yes.
And I have, pondered reallythought too deeply about it.
When did it for me, go fromAbusing alcohol to addiction,
and I try and think whathappened in this year?
I see a Facebook memory orsomething like that.
There was a point where itswitched to something I couldn't
(09:58):
live without anymore, as opposedto something I had just been
abusing for so many years.
Lindsey (10:03):
I was definitely abusing it.
And then I'm like I can go sixmonths without drinking it.
And I had, right?
Because then I was like, okay,that was my way to take back
that control because I feltlike, okay, every time I go out,
I'm drinking.
If I'm at an event and there'sno drinking, I can't wait to get
my ass home to drink by myself,and I found I was doing a lot of
(10:24):
drinking at the end, it wasmostly on my own, I was alone.
I'm isolating myself now, lowerself esteem, I'm puffy, I'm
gaining weight, I feel likecrap, making bad decisions,
Kelly (10:37):
it's just like an instant gratification or just feeling
something exactly for such ashort time.
I saw something on Instagramthat was like, be weary.
Maybe that's not the word, bemindful of things that cause.
Intense dopamine immediately,really be mindful of those
things because that usuallycomes with consequences after
Tracey (11:01):
I think that if you really think about your drinking
history if I look at mine, andI'm sure you to I know that it
was a direct correlation, theamount I was drinking with the
things that were going on in mylife.
Yeah.
Bingo.
When my drinking started toincrease, it was definitely due
(11:22):
to the circumstances of thingsthat were happening in my life
they were happening so regularlythat I didn't even have time to
process them emotionally anddidn't want to, it was just
almost too much.
Yeah.
To the point where.
You want to face it.
Yeah.
I just kept using the wine toflush it down, to flush it down.
Lindsey (11:44):
That was me.
You nailed it, Tracey.
Yes.
Yes.
Tracey (11:47):
Speaking to the flip side of that, I would say the
biggest impact that it had on myself esteem was when I was in
the thralls of my deepestdrinking, because that's when it
was affecting my self esteem.
And making my self esteemactually low at that point.
I don't think I started out withlow self esteem.
(12:09):
I think that was a result of mydrinking.
It's interesting because ourguests last week, and I know we
talked about this on theprevious episode we had too,
about the whole curiosity thing,right?
Yeah.
How drinking stalls yourcuriosity or puts it on pause?
And I feel like drinking didthat for me with my self
(12:29):
awareness.
I feel like I was a super selfaware person and then the more I
drank, the more I lost touchwith myself and the more I lost
that.
It brings you further away fromyou.
Yes.
I feel like my self awarenesswent from like an 8 down to a 4
and then I had to work so hardwhen I stopped drinking to get
(12:51):
it back up to the 8.
So it was like almostrediscovering myself over again
for me instead of, rediscoveringmyself for the first time as a
lot of other people describe.
And I think that has to do withwhen I started drinking and how
I was older and more mature.
Yeah.
Lindsey (13:08):
Ah, yeah.
Do you think Tracey then, causenow I'm thinking about it
related to my situation.
Do you think then that becauseyou and I are very similar.
We started drinking alcohol whenwe were older.
Yeah.
In our 20s and stuff, right?
But that's the time when you aresupposed to be on this self
exploration and a journey to whoyou are.
(13:31):
But When you're drinking andyour vibration is so low and
your self awareness goes from aneight to a four and you're
spending all those years in thatfour, finally, then when you
come to your senses and you'relike, this substance is keeping
me low, then it's later in life.
Then you're here in your latethirties and forties having to
do the work that should havebeen accomplished in your
(13:51):
twenties.
And now I'm feeling like.
Hearing you verbalize this,maybe this is why I made such
poor decisions, say with a lifepartner.
I married the wrong person or, Iscrewed up in this aspect of my
life because I was vibing atsuch a low level and I didn't do
any of the self discovery workthat I should have been.
Tracey (14:12):
Totally.
I can totally relate to that.
That's the thing.
Before I started drinking in myearly 20s was some of the most
introspective.
I had ever been.
I was reading a lot of self helpbooks.
I was really in tune with myselfprior to meeting my ex partner.
And he was a bartender too,right?
(14:32):
So like 21 to 25, honestly, Ifelt very in tune with myself.
I was living on my own.
I was very independent.
I was, starting my career.
I was driven.
And those are all the thingsthat I talk about.
So I ended up with a partner.
I want to speak to this, too,because you might be able to
relate to this, too, Lindsay.
(14:54):
I ended up with a partner whowas very emotionally immature.
So I feel like.
His stagnation created that samestagnation for me.
I started becoming stagnantbecause he was stagnant
emotionally.
He wasn't someone who wanted tobe self aware or was, heading in
(15:15):
the direction of trying toimprove himself.
Or anything like that, and I'mnot blaming him.
I just think the dynamics of ourrelationship and that choice in
that partner held me back.
From myself, I can definitelyrelate for sure.
Exactly to your point Linds inthose crucial developmental
(15:35):
years, where you would be,discovering yourself, building
your career and all that.
Choosing a partner that is at astandstill is not ideal for
those crucial years of yourlife.
Then you end up being like us orme, a late bloomer, as I like to
call myself.
Lindsey (15:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, let's talkabout too, when we're saying low
self esteem or low confidence, Ifeel like that can manifest in a
number of different ways.
And when I think about thisstuff, I was like, okay.
Was this me when I was drinking?
Yes.
Number one, negative self talk.
If you're somebody with low selfesteem, you're constantly
(16:17):
criticizing yourself, or you'refocusing on your weaknesses, and
you have a really pessimisticoutlook.
I know that's something thatI've now been working on, but
that was totally me.
When I was drinking, or theother thing too, with a low self
esteem is seeking validation.
You rely so heavily on somebodyelse's approval with any little
(16:39):
decision in your life.
Or you're seeking validation tofeel worthy or accepted.
What do I look like in thisoutfit?
Or does this make me look thisway?
Or, do you think that this is agood idea?
You just constantly wantsomebody to validate you.
Or another big thing wasperfectionism, having these
unrealistic standards and thenfeeling like crap when you're
(17:01):
not able to meet them.
I think perfectionism can alsobe a self esteem indicator Oh,
for sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
And the big one was avoidingchallenges, avoiding new
experiences, avoiding challengesbecause you're fearful of
failing and you just lackconfidence altogether.
And I know I definitely didthat.
(17:22):
I was doing my best drinking bymyself.
Social withdrawal.
Feeling uncomfortable in socialsituations.
Then you just drink more.
And what about this one?
Difficulty accepting acompliment.
That's a hard one for me.
Just working on saying thank youinstead of no, that's not true
or whatever.
(17:42):
These are some indicators Ithink of somebody that may be
has low self esteem.
Tracey (17:49):
Yeah, for sure.
Because I think like theperfectionism for instance, is
trying to meet somebody else'sstandards or expectations,
right?
Instead of just.
Setting your own goals or,aspirations for yourself and
being comfortable.
With your progress to them,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kelly (18:08):
okay, I have a question going back to, I think something
that Tracey said a while ago.
Talking about drinking to fit into a situation.
Do you guys think that's anindicator that you're hanging
out with the wrong people?
Oh, that's a great question.
Yeah.
Lindsey (18:24):
That, I think, yeah, looking back on the people that
I was surrounding myself with,including a boyfriend and his
friends, they were definitelynot my people.
Tracey (18:34):
I agree.
And going back to what I wassaying to about that scenario,
like you guys said, why do youthink that you felt like you had
to start drinking and I said,because of the people I was
hanging around.
So if I think about it in stagesof life, I think in high school,
I had my secure friend group.
So I was comfortable being me.
Doing my thing and not having toprove myself to anybody else,
(18:57):
right?
I was comfortable with thepeople in my surroundings.
But then going into my 20s, myfriend group completely changed.
So it was like, once I wasintroduced to this unfamiliar
environment, then I felt more ofthe need to fit in because these
people didn't know me.
I didn't have thatcomfortability level with them.
(19:17):
And I'm not going to act likethere probably wasn't pressure,
not necessarily maybe from thatindividual.
Maybe I was putting it on myselfto feel like I had to keep up
with that big personality, thatcharisma, and that big, huge
extrovert that I was with.
Right.
Kelly (19:35):
Yeah.
What about I believe thatthere's probably a good number
of people that are in a newsituation, like newly separated
or newly divorced.
So women, maybe in their 30s and40s.
that increase their drinkingbecause maybe the self esteem is
low because they don't know howto be in that new space in this
(19:55):
new life.
Lindsey (19:55):
And it's uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I think uncomfortability, likediscomfort is one of the major
triggers for consuming alcohol.
Yeah.
And discomfort with what?
I think that's a self esteem.
Yeah.
Discomfort with yourself.
Yeah.
Discomfort for sure withyourself.
Tracey (20:13):
I can speak to that directly because I was drinking
when I was dating after Iseparated.
You two, you did the datingthing sober.
Yeah, and I don't doubt that wasa contributing factor either 100
percent when I was back in thedating world at 40 after, 15
years of not dating.
(20:33):
I didn't do it great the 1sttime because I was an introvert,
let alone having to do it againat 40 with a kid.
Being rusty is like anunderstatement in those
circumstances.
So I definitely was utilizingalcohol to get me through that.
There's no doubt.
Kelly (20:52):
I separated a year after I stopped drinking and that's
not something I thought of atfirst but then you know once
everything was done and gettingsettled and I was moving out and
stuff like that I was like oh mygod I'm gonna have to do this.
date without alcohol.
I can't really, but it wasn't.
Tracey (21:08):
Were you ever tempted, Kel?
Were you ever I don't think Ican do this.
Kelly (21:12):
No.
Tracey (21:13):
That's good.
You were very strong in yoursobriety then.
Lindsey (21:17):
I felt like that was a good thing to be dating without
alcohol because I had datedWhile drinking, and it didn't go
very well I feel like that's whyI ended up with the wrong person
for me, because alcohol, likeit's easy to get along with
people and tolerate people andoverlook things and, red flags
(21:40):
those gut feelings.
It's easy to just have thatglass of wine and be like, ah,
we'll figure that out later.
Or, maybe it's just a one off.
You care less, I think, or youthink you have a connection with
somebody, but it's like goinginto something like that meeting
new people sober.
You really know if there's aconnection, a genuine one or
(22:00):
not.
Of course, nerves are normal, ifsomebody that you're with are
sitting across and you justlike, dang this would be so much
easier with a drink.
I feel like that might not besomebody for you, whether it's a
friend or a potential partner.
Kelly (22:17):
Oh, yeah.
That's the biggest green flag.
I think of all in dating is justbe yourself.
Tracey (22:22):
Oh, I think there was totally people that I connected
with just because we both drank,right?
It's that's what we had incommon, so that would be your
source of entertainment.
We can just go out and havedrinks.
I spent 13 years in arelationship with someone like
that.
But that was our relationship.
It was built on a on a drinkingbuddy.
I definitely carried on into mydating life when I was still
(22:47):
drinking.
And that is something that I dothink about sometimes what if I
had to chose a differentpartner?
Because my partner by totalfluke doesn't drink.
And I can't say that didn'tsomewhat influence me.
I think very unconsciously.
Yeah, in my decision to stop, soif I had have ended up with
(23:09):
someone that was a drinker,would I have stopped?
Or it might have been a lotlonger before I realized I
should and where would I havebeen at then, right?
I feel very thankful for that.
There's a part of me that feelslike that certain individual and
type of person came into my lifefor a reason.
(23:31):
That was one of those momentswhere the universe was guiding
me to.
The place that I should begoing.
Lindsey (23:38):
What are things that people can do to work on self
esteem?
Kelly (23:41):
That's what I was just thinking.
Yeah, like at a young age.
At a young age?
When, before they're introducedto alcohol, one of the things
I've always said to my boys islike, you don't have to drink.
It's not a thing you have to do.
Because I feel like it's so mucha part of our culture and they
have grown up with it.
They've grown up around a lot ofalcohol.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(24:01):
But yeah you don't have to drinkand the message that I got was
like, don't drink.
Lindsey (24:06):
That's what I got too.
Or else.
Kelly (24:08):
There was nothing else, but I love what we talked about
at the beginning of it's okay tobe different.
It's okay to be shy.
It's okay to not want to go tothe party too.
Tracey (24:19):
But I think it starts with us as parents, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
I think we have to continue to.
Encourage our young people andour kids to be themselves and
comfortable with that.
I tell my daughter all the timethat it's okay if she's curious,
but it's also okay if she's notinterested and she says no.
(24:41):
And if people aren't going to beyour friend because of that
they're not your friends.
They're not your people, right?
If they are your friends,they're going to accept.
You don't want to do it and beokay with it.
And I think that I did havethose type of friends.
My friends were okay with thefact that I didn't drink.
They never pushed me into it.
So I think that was part of whyI was very comfortable to
(25:02):
growing up.
My best friend didn't reallydrink herself and then I had
other friends that drank, butthey never influenced me to do
it.
And they were content because Iwas a designated DD.
So they always had to drivesomeone to get them home safe.
Kelly (25:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsey (25:20):
I think we have to create wins.
You've got to create little winsfor yourself.
And I think, when you're 15, 16,17 what can those wins look
like?
I think just saving money that'ssomething that, That wasn't
something that was talked aboutin my household.
And I remember living at homeand working a professional job
out of university and stillliving at home for a year after
(25:42):
that and spending everythingthat I made.
But I feel like, there's acertain sense of confidence that
also comes when you're in ahabit and a routine and it's a
positive thing, like savingmoney or investing money.
And, you see these thingsgrowing or, Healthy living
learning how to cook healthyrecipes, learning what, makes
your body feel good.
(26:02):
What kind of foods, what kindof, beverages and yeah, like
doing some kind of activity thatyou enjoy.
I didn't really have a lot ofhobbies and I didn't really
explore a lot of things likethat when I was a teenager.
And a lot of that had to do withlow self esteem, but I also
(26:22):
really didn't know how to buildon that, but it's just stacking
little wins
Kelly (26:28):
yeah, that's really good ones.
I love that.
Tracey (26:30):
Oh, I think encouraging curiosity and discovery.
You're saying continuing toencourage that, encourage kids
to be curious to exploredifferent things and without
putting a lot of pressure onthem, because I think there's a
flip side to that.
It's great that kids getinvolved in competitive sports
and stuff, but I feel like thatcan come with a lot of pressure.
(26:54):
Oh, that's yeah, there can benegative.
Impacts and effects on that.
Yes, it can create a lot of selfdiscipline, and it can even
create social skills, being apart of a team and stuff, but it
can have negative impact to onkids, having high expectations
of themselves feeling like, theyhave to, reach certain goals or
(27:16):
be competitive, and those canhave negative implications to so
I think parents have to have abalance and be mindful of that
as well.
Kelly (27:26):
Yeah, the pressure could lead kids to drink as an escape
I don't know how I got out ofparenting three boys without
hockey, but that can be prettyintense, on the whole family.
Yeah.
But probably because you didn'tput that pressure on them Kelly?
Yeah.
Like I didn't with my daughtereither.
It was like, what are youinterested in?
Yes, you wanna try something,then you try it.
(27:48):
My daughter was never interestedin sports.
She did dance, she didgymnastics, and she was just
interested in it because sheenjoyed it and leisurely, she
never wanted to be competitiveabout it.
She wasn't really, aggressive inher pursuit of it.
so I never forced her, I neverpushed her, I gave her the
option to try different thingsand put different things out to
(28:10):
her, but let it inevitably beher decision.
And I think that's it, givingkids autonomy, right?
Yeah.
To add to your list that I loveabout, curiosity and creativity
and, time and nature.
Yeah, creative elements arehuge.
Time to do nothing.
Tracey (28:28):
But like we say too practice, right?
Practice is what createseverything, right?
Creates a habit, createshobbies.
Encourage them to practice.
Different things.
Try yoga.
Try drawing, try photography,whatever it is.
Yeah.
And yeah, get off your phone.
Yeah, that's a good one too.
(28:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
These devices are creating a lotof anxiety.
And self esteem issues, becauseall the world showing them is a
bunch of fake shit.
Perfection.
There's nothing realisticthey're seeing on any kind of
social media platform that.
Give them a real perspective onwhat life looks like for normal
(29:13):
Joe real.
Yeah.
Lindsey (29:14):
Then, I have a question what for you guys, how have you
personally addressed any selfesteem issues in relation to
your own.
Alcohol use you ask that again?
Sorry.
How have you addressed.
Any self esteem issues inrelation to your own alcohol
(29:35):
use, what are some things thatyou've done or you're continuing
to do to address any, if therewere any self esteem.
Kelly (29:43):
Oh, I think a hundred percent.
The reason why I starteddrinking was low self esteem and
it was like Tracey was talkingabout earlier, that suppression
of who I was really meant to be.
And just living a lifesuppressed and now giving myself
the opportunity to just be who Iam like the last six years has
been, understanding who Iactually am as a person, and
(30:05):
then giving myself back all ofthose things that I missed.
Like we're talking about likethe creativity and the time of
nature.
Lindsey (30:12):
How are you giving those things back to yourself?
I go outside and play and I doall the things that I want to do
and express myself and learn howto express myself.
That was a big thing for me wasusing my voice.
That's probably been the biggestthing I've had to overcome is to
speak and speak my truth.
I love that.
Oh my goodness.
Tracey (30:31):
I think the first thing you do is decide not to use
alcohol.
Kelly (30:36):
Yeah.
That's a huge self esteembooster.
Tracey (30:40):
That in itself, but I think exactly what Kel said I
think as you do more selfdiscovery, the more confident
and comfortable you feel in yourown skin and then naturally that
boosts your self esteem puttingboundaries in place.
Yes.
Yeah, I think that the more youjust give yourself forgiveness
(31:00):
as well.
Give yourself a break, don't beso hard on yourself and realize
that you're human.
Forgive yourself.
Still working on that one.
Yeah.
Giving myself.
Grace.
Exactly.
That was the word I was lookingfor, Kel.
Trust me, it's still hard for metoo.
Lindsey (31:15):
I think it's hard for everybody.
It's always going to be a workin progress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about you, Lins?
Yeah, for me, it is doing thingsevery day that empower me in
terms of health.
That means moving my body everyday.
That means supplements.
(31:37):
That means reading books.
I was doing a lot of reading.
Podcast listening as I get readyfor work in the morning or
listening to a book on audible.
And then even with the workingout, as you continue to show up
for yourself and you don't breakthe promise, cause it's easy to
say I'm tired and I don't wantto work out today.
Like I'm tired.
(31:58):
But when you do it and you showup for yourself, that's a little
win.
And when you do it again thenext day and the next day and
the next day, you start tobecome somebody that you can
trust, you're not breakingpromises to yourself, right?
And then you do get moreconfident.
In yourself, because you'reworking towards something you're
(32:19):
feeling good.
And these things are hard,right?
You're showing up for the hardstuff and you're doing it and
you feel really good after that.
And you're like, yes, I did it.
I showed up.
I was tired.
I was in a grumpy mood.
I had a really bad day at work,but you know what?
I took a break.
45 minutes and I did somethingpositive for my body, and not
necessarily if you hate running,then maybe don't do that, find
(32:42):
something that you resonatewith.
And I think it's going to bedifferent for everybody, but
yeah, little things like that,really focusing on the things
that I can control.
And then also learning that thethings that I can't control
there's a book that I juststarted.
It was like, don't sweat thesmall stuff.
It's all small stuff inbrackets, like it's just little
things like that.
(33:03):
Okay, so this went wrong today.
I would normally drive to theliquor store and get two bottles
of wine, but you know what?
Instead.
I'm going to get on the Pelotonand I'm going to do a bike ride
or I'm going to go for a walk orI'm going to make some popcorn
and watch a movie without wine.
And then as you get throughthings, as you're able to get
through challenges, you're like,wow, okay, I can do this and
(33:26):
bonus.
I don't feel like shit the nextday.
Cool.
Yeah, I like what you said aboutcontrol.
There's a whole lot that wecan't control.
No, yeah, there's a whole lotthat we can't control.
Tracey (33:38):
I like the expression.
I just used this with my teamthe other day.
You know that we have no controlover what anybody else does.
We only have control over ourown reaction to it.
Lindsey (33:50):
Exactly.
That is right.
And you can feel emotions youcan really feel emotions, but
you can control how you react tohow you feel those emotions.
That's 1 thing that I think at aconference, I was listening to a
speaker.
And she was talking about beingan emotionally strong leader and
feeling emotions and they can betotally out of control, but then
(34:13):
controlling how you react tothem.
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Like you're not able to controlemotions.
They come, they're going tocome.
They're going to kick you in theass.
You're going to be raged.
You're going to be crying.
You're going to feel likepunching someone in the face,
but like how you react that'spractice.
That's something that you canlearn how to control despite
feeling.
Tracey (34:32):
Yeah.
That's when you need Eva for thesomatic experience.
Yes.
Yes.
That's exactly when you usethat.
Amazing.
Did I say that on a recordingthat I had a session with her
and she was just Yeah, you did.
Oh, I'm going to book anotherone with her.
I love that.
I want to go back to What youtouched on there to Linds and
we've talked about it's reallywho you surround yourself with
(34:55):
to and what you're feeding yourmind when you speak to books and
podcasts and stuff like that.
And I think it's very importantto point out to people to try
not to focus on the exterior foryour self esteem.
Yes.
And that the less you focus onyour exterior and the more you
focus on your interior.
That is going to come out on theexterior.
Lindsey (35:18):
Yes, I agree with that.
Everybody on social media usesfilters and Oh, hell yeah! Other
things, but they're not real.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think too, like when Iused to hear people say, It's
who you surround yourself with.
And I was like, I have twofriends but here's the thing.
(35:38):
It's, it doesn't evennecessarily have to be real
people.
Who you surround yourself withis your social media feed, your.
What your podcasts are like yourbooks, those also are people
that you're surrounding yourselfwith who you surround yourself
with.
So Google some inspirationalpeople, there are so many
accounts on Instagram that areabout empowerment and, working
(36:02):
on yourself and self esteem andall these things.
And, there's a lot of greatalcohol free.
Kelly (36:09):
Let's say one favorite podcast.
Everybody.
Other than ours.
Obviously, I know.
LAF life, duh.
But Lewis house, the school ofgreatness.
Oh, he's so good.
He's so good.
He's getting better and better.
Yeah.
He's on this.
He's on the journey and we're onit with him.
He's he is on the journey andhe's so open and honest about
(36:29):
it, which I love.
Tracey (36:31):
I love Mel Robbins.
I do love Mel Robbins becauseshe's a straight shooter and
she's okay to admit her faultsand so I like that there's no
kind of bullshit or fluff.
And I like that.
I think she does a good job withher guests and how she asks
questions and really I thinkchallenges things too.
Lindsey (36:51):
Yeah.
What's one for you, Kel?
Kelly (36:53):
Rich Roll.
I love him.
Oh yeah.
I post what, I post a lot of hisRich Roll.
He's so looking an up.
He's very handsome.
Oh.
He's a plant-based triathletewas a lawyer until he is 40
years old and like justcompletely turned his life
around and he's super Thepodcast.
(37:13):
Yeah.
Okay.
Great conversation.
Lindsey (37:15):
I'm to it.
Going to follow it right now.
Follow.
Okay.
Tracey (37:19):
I wanted to make one more point on the self esteem.
I think one of the biggestthings people need to do too is
drop any comparisons.
Stop comparing yourself toanybody else.
Oh, that's such a good one.
Yes.
Your life to anybody else'slife.
Lindsey (37:35):
That's a self esteem killer.
That's a really
Tracey (37:37):
good one.
Yeah.
Any comparisons.
Kelly (37:39):
That's a really important thing to teach our young people.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Especially with the social mediaoutlets we are now.
And what I was going to sayabout that how the social media
and the devices are creating somuch anxiety, they're looking
for a relief from that anxiety.
So you know, they are in dangerof, heading down the road to
(37:59):
abusing alcohol
Lindsey (38:00):
Yeah.
Other substances.
I would, yeah.
And I would say that if there isone thing you're gonna tell your
kids to do, tell them to droptheir phone every once in a
while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And make them take a break or dosomething.
Yeah.
Outside of being locked in theroom on their phone.
Yes.
Yep.
Drag'em outside.
Kelly (38:19):
I'm just thinking of my youngest, only one that left
living with me, but.
He likes to cook.
So I'll just ask him for helpwith dinner and like he'll come
and chop up vegetables orwhatever.
And, he can make a whole meal,but that's yeah.
What kind of things like does.
Maddy liked to do Trace.
That's great, Kel.
I like that.
I don't make Maddy get in thekitchen with me.
And you know what?
My mom never did that with meeither.
(38:40):
And I should because I love tocook and I didn't learn anything
from my mom.
Lindsey (38:45):
You're great.
First of all, you're great atcooking and your recipes.
I'm like, whoa.
Tracey (38:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of people enjoy mycooking.
That's what I hear when I cookfor other people, but even my
kid actually enjoys my cooking.
She will often say, that's good.
Yours is way better.
Kelly (39:01):
It is good.
Tracey (39:04):
But I don't.
I don't,
Kelly (39:06):
How does she drop her phone there?
No, I'm not asking if you can, Ithink
Tracey (39:09):
you're inspiring me.
No, they're good.
I will just tell her like, we'regoing to do this or, we need to
spend time together.
I'll remind her, get off yourphone.
I'll make her watch a show withme and I'll say, yeah, touch
your phone.
No, respond to that right now,you're spending time with your
(39:30):
mom.
Yeah,
Lindsey (39:32):
I love that.
Kelly (39:33):
Yeah, that's good.
Lindsey (39:34):
I think this was a good chat, you guys.
I think so, too.
Yeah.
Yeah, it just came into my headthe other day, just about self
esteem.
What if instead of, all of theseother things that we focus on,
what if we thought about it as aself esteem issue and especially
with our young people.
You don't have to drink! Youreally don't have to.
(39:55):
Yeah, you don't have to.
You really don't.
And there's lots ofreplacements, lots of
replacements.
Tracey (40:01):
How you phrased it, Kel, like if you look at the toxic
relationship you have withalcohol, any toxic relationships
really stem from low selfesteem, right?
including the one you have withdrinking.
Lindsey (40:14):
Yeah.
That's what you allow.
Allow in your life.
It's how you allow people totreat you, what you allow into.
Kelly (40:22):
Yeah.
I thought it was, I thought itwas a thing I had to do.
Lindsey (40:26):
I think I did too.
Much a part of my life.
I thought I had
Tracey (40:29):
I think that's what everybody thinks because that's
what's drilled into our head byall the social media and
marketing of, alcohol.
So I think we all feel like it'ssomething we have to do.
When you turn 18 in Canada, ifyou're listening, it's when
you're in Manitoba, at least,it's like when you turn 18,
(40:50):
what's the thing you get to do?
Everybody knows it's drink.
That's the legal age.
So it's like, how can we makethat an age that you turn?
Kelly (40:59):
That is something we see on social media, right?
Or I've seen regularly on socialmedias when a parent has a child
that turns said it's 18.
So 18, 19, 21, and they takethem out for drinks and post
pictures of their alcoholicbeverages.
It's we can stop doing that anyday now.
Cause that's pretty toxic.
Lindsey (41:17):
That is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Stop encouraging that.
Like it's a rite of passage,right?
Yeah.
That is How it's.
Tracey (41:26):
I think it's very important to speak to the
negative impact alcohol has onyour self esteem once you start
getting into an abusiverelationship with it.
I think that's very key foranybody who, is drinking and
finds that they're Drinking isprogressing to keep that in
mind, especially if they feellike they're in a low place that
(41:48):
it could be a direct result of.
And correlating with how muchthey are drinking
Lindsey (41:54):
It can cause or be a trigger for depression because
it screws up all the chemicalsin your brain, right?
So if it's messing withchemicals and maybe your self
esteem, you haven't done a lotto work on it or develop it.
Now you're feeling depressed andanxious.
It's just a disaster.
It becomes this cycle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tracey (42:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kelly (42:15):
Thanks guys.
Thanks for.
Lindsey (42:17):
Yeah.
This is a good chat.
Oh, I want to thank ourlisteners again for tuning in
and do us a big favor.
It would really mean a lot to usif you hit that follow button.
So follow our show.
If you thought this was helpfulin any way, send it out to a
friend.
You never know.
who is struggling or who you canhelp.
(42:38):
You can find us on Instagram atLAF life podcast and head on
over to Facebook.
We have a group there as wellunder LAF life podcast, where we
make some posts and there'sdiscussion happening in there.
We just launched our website,laflifepodcast.
com.
We will see you back here nextTuesday with a brand new
(42:58):
episode.
Thanks for listening guys.
See you soon.
And you know what to do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (43:04):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
on social media and tell yourfriends.
We love getting your feedbackand ideas of what you'd like to
hear on upcoming episodes of theLAF life podcast.
If you yourself are livingalcohol free and want to share
your story here, please reachout.
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