March 24, 2024 • 55 mins
What a great conversation we had with our guest, accomplished author Bryan Wempen. Bryan had an instant love affair with alcohol the first time he tried it at the young age of 14. That was followed with many years of battling his tempestuous relationship with substance abuse. Bryan has spent the last 14 years of sobriety being actively involved in the recovery community and telling his story through his writing. Bryan has written 3 books around addiction and his life experiences. Now he is embarking on a new journey releasing his 1st fictional novel and starting his own publishing company, Red Yarrow Books, where he hopes to help other aspiring writers. We love how Bryan has creatively expressed his recovery journey with the world by sharing his books . We are excited to see where this next chapter takes him!
Find out more about Bryan:
Website: https://bryanwempen.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanwempen
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bryanwempen
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelly (00:02):
Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsay Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Tracey (00:40):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the LAF Life
podcast.
This is season three tonight wehave another wonderful guest
accomplished author Brian Wempenand we are so excited to have
Brian with us Brian has written3 books around sobriety and
recovery.
and he just released his 3rd inJanuary.
(01:02):
So we will dive into that withBrian a little later, but we
want to start off Brian bywelcoming you.
Hello.
Bryan (01:09):
Hey, thank you so much for spending a little time and
allowing me to come on and chitchat for a bit.
Tracey (01:17):
Yeah, we're happy to have you.
I know based on your bio thatthe first two books you wrote
were around sobriety andrecovery.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about your personal
journey to that and how thosebooks came about?
Bryan (01:32):
Sure.
That's a great way to start.
Yeah, so I literally been veryquintessential and, I started
dabbling a little bit here andthere and sneaking drinks when I
was little.
Then, I think at 13 actually 13,14, it's a little blurry, but
was the first time that I hadabsolute opportunity to just get
(01:53):
the gas 100 percent and drink asmuch as I wanted to for the very
first time.
At an older high school party.
me and another kid got invitedbecause we were was pretty good
at sports and so I started, as afreshman with seniors and so we
got invited.
We somehow scammed our way intogetting there talking his mom
(02:16):
into dropping us off this randomhouse in a different town.
And that was the first time.
And I absolutely was beyondmyself at how much fun I was
having.
And the very first time, that Iwas able to do that completely
blacked out threw up.
Started a fight.
It was a full evening and, afterthat, I was like, oh, my gosh, I
(02:40):
don't really want to wait untilthe next time to drink.
I was chasing it because itconquered all of the voices, all
the, self consciousness.
I felt just as funny as Ithought I was and all those
things.
And from there I was verypreoccupied.
So from the get go firstopportunity, I was rolling and
Tracey (03:00):
wow.
Even after puking and blacking
Bryan (03:03):
out.
Yeah, it was a great, I was soready to go again.
And, once I got to the nextmorning and, settled down a
little bit, I'm like, that wasawesome.
That was really freedom.
It was like emotional freedomfor the first time that I could
remember.
So move along a couple of years.
By 16, I was a daily drinker andI was really good at hiding it.
(03:25):
I was in a small school.
My parents really didn't drink.
We had other issues, but not somuch drinking.
And I had to really hide it andput people around me that would,
if I got caught, would cover me.
And I made a whole lifetime outof that.
really how I operated, wasgetting people around me.
I could trust who drank, triedto drink and I didn't do drugs
(03:48):
at that time.
And yeah, so daily drinker.
So it was then about figuringout how can I acquire alcohol
consistently?
And then how can I not getcaught and get in trouble and
try and maintain and, wrecked abunch of cars, almost got
arrested a bunch of times.
Good or bad, my father was knownby the sheriff's office when
(04:12):
they needed help with somethinglike in the middle of the night,
if they needed pulled out of aditch somewhere, they would call
my dad.
And so my dad knew all thecounty sheriffs and police
officers.
So when I would get in trouble,They would be like, man, do you
want us to tell your father?
And I'm like, absolutely not.
He was volatile at that time.
(04:33):
And hell no, I don't want to,I'm scared to death of him.
And so they would be like, okaywe're not going to take you in
this time.
We'll take you home and we'lltake your booze.
But you're not going to get introuble.
So I had it covered.
It just progressively got worseand, graduated early, went into
the military.
I had a period when I was 17, Ididn't drink for five months,
(04:54):
because I was in basic trainingin AIT.
Which that was good because ittook my mind off things and I
thought it'll totally bedifferent.
I did have a thought.
It would be different when I gotdone.
And man, I got back and it waslike catching up time.
I had total freedom.
I was heading to university.
I always got fairly good grades.
(05:14):
And always stayed out of troublebecause I got good grades.
I was attentive enough.
I was a, I was a fairly niceperson.
And so I was able to navigateeverything going on, and fixing
the air of my ways in mid flightjust to stay enough out of
trouble and try and stay alive.
Once I hit college though, and Ihad complete freedom, and that's
where I actually found drugs forthe first time.
(05:36):
And that was literally like the,we call them here, the HOV lane,
right?
Where you get, you can go fasterand clear lane.
To absolute the abyss.
I always worked hard, neveractually got fired from a job
because I was a really hardworker when I was there and I
was clever enough and funnyenough, and nice enough that
they would just chew me out.
(05:57):
and let me go back to work,right?
Because if they needed me andthey needed something hard done,
they could always call them.
I was always a hard worker.
I grew up on a ranch.
So I was a hard worker, thankGod, or I would have, it would
have been worse quicker, but itreally did hit when I was 22.
OD'd starting to do cocaine andmeth and because I could drink
(06:17):
more and every other drug I'dget my hand on if it wasn't a
needle, because I don't likeneedles, thank goodness but I
was like, if it could make me gofaster, I could drink more, I
could drink faster, I was allover it once I OD'd, I had a
light go on, this is one of kindof those early somebody's
watching out for me, not myselfmoments.
(06:38):
I am like, okay, this mightactually kill me.
I know my drink quite a bit, butthis might actually legitimately
tell me.
It was about a year that I wastrying to quit, and I was
drinking a lot more, but Iwasn't using as much and then I
would go out on these hugebenches weeks at a time.
Then I graduated, I had auniversity that very graciously.
(06:59):
imparted a degree on me, whichto this day, I'm very thankful
that they were generous isprobably a, an understatement to
get me out of there.
Then I moved and I completelydisconnected from all of my
sources for The drugs and thatwas literally, I used one more
time that was 1990, goodness,1993, and I used one more time
(07:22):
in 96, briefly, and then I justnever did it again, but I was
drinking like, all day, everyday.
Just to, to oblivion.
I was bartending.
So I had full access literally24 hours a day to alcohol.
It got really dark and I justwas in this silo, and in my own
(07:44):
head and the silo and stuff.
That's that's how I got into theworking adult world.
Ended up, and I was good at thecall it geographics.
I was good at, I'm going to takethis new job or a new role and
move there, and I think it'll bebetter, and I'm going to go
here.
And I was really good at fixingproblems for a company that I
started with and it seemed toclick and they had a culture of,
(08:06):
we don't really care how hardyou party if you work hard.
And so I'm like, oh this is, Iliterally, I think The universe
is okay, we'll see how much youcan actually take.
And they put me in a situationwhere I worked really hard and I
absolutely partied really hard.
It was the perfect environmentbecause they were growing fast.
(08:29):
And I started, okay, I'll takethat and I'll move to the West
coast in the U S and I'll moveto Puerto Rico and fix problems
there.
And then I'll move to the UK andfix problems there.
Then I'll move to Atlanta.
I was literally like thepicture.
And they were paying me more andmore money and my dysfunction
and unhappiness was faroutpacing my success.
And my success was really high.
(08:50):
Like I was doing really welldespite myself, and I had a lot
of responsibility, had tons ofpeople reported to me.
And I created a team of peoplethat would, get me home at
night.
And.
would keep me out of jail and ifI got arrested would come pick
me up, they bail me out and theywould, they were good at
(09:10):
protecting me because I hadsurrounded myself with a, a team
of Protectors slash enablersthat, when I was not in that
mode, I was good at what I didand it was helping people.
And yeah, it was pretty dark.
And and during that time, gotmarried and had other
responsibilities And so Istarted to only drink when I
(09:31):
traveled away for our work and Iwould definitely make up time
right soon as I hit the airportto soon as try and make it
through landing get to the hoteland then hotels always had a
bar.
And then I was always out witheverybody that I was there.
And I really turned into this, Ihad two or three very different
(09:52):
lives, which is, not an uncommonstatement.
And when I try and quit, thedepression would hit.
When I drink more, thedepression would hit.
So I was navigating this,something I didn't quite
understand.
and I was traveling everywhere.
So it was hard for people to pinme down because I had so many
places that I was doing thingsand had enough money to be able
(10:14):
to bury the issues and fix theissues.
Yeah, so it got to the point andcome to the end here is, I met a
guy cause I left that companycause it was such a toxic
environment.
Oh my God.
There was every rule violated.
From human rights to pick acategory of discrimination.
(10:35):
It was not a great company andthe leadership there.
So I decided I couldn't do thatanymore.
It was horrible.
So I left and started my ownconsulting firm, which is, not
great when you're, a heavydrinker because nobody then is,
paying attention.
So bought a software company,started a consulting company,
had all these things.
I ended up merging my companywith somebody else.
(10:58):
this is really important.
He was in recovery I'd beenexposed to 12 step programs and
different stuff through somefamily members and had.
actually tried to go to somemeetings, some AA meetings and
take that pathway a few times.
And, just wasn't there.
And I met this guy and I'm like,Oh, that's interesting.
(11:18):
Cause he was a great guy, but hehad a story.
Wow.
but he was now successful.
He was in recovery and he cameinto my life.
We merged companies.
And he was more gracious than heprobably should have been as a
friend based on my behavior.
And how I, took all theshortcuts around stuff in
business.
So we ended up, parting ways.
(11:39):
I left the company after wemerged it.
But we always stayed in touch,always did.
I just knew he was important tome.
I just didn't know why other, hewas a great guy.
I got a DUI in 1995 and was outwith my boss and the people
working for me with that oldcompany.
And so I never lost my license.
It never hit my insurance.
(12:00):
Literally, I did some communityservice and got navigated a
loophole in a system thatallowed me to walk away from
that.
With really no other than ittook 10 percent of my annual
salary at that time to sort outthat deal, but I had no lasting
effect.
And so I don't drink and driveanymore because part of the deal
(12:21):
was I could never get a secondDUI or it was a felony.
That was part of the deal.
And so I was really good aboutthat.
And then February of 2010.
Something happens.
I don't know what it was.
And it was like, I crossed theline where I literally had this
emotional, like I, I said it outloud.
(12:42):
I just don't give a fuckanymore.
Like I crossed that line, thebarrier had been crossed.
And I've said that many times,but the line had moved to, I
literally don't care aboutanything.
And it was a really dangerousline because.
I started, driving while I wasdrunk again and blacked out and
started getting totally wastedat industry functions with
(13:06):
colleagues and stuff verypublic.
And it was so unusual cause Iwas so guarded about those
things.
People didn't right away put twoand two together, so there were
a couple incidents that weregetting there and I was like,
whatever.
And I was in Chicago on May 8th.
I went for a conference I wasspeaking.
And I was at the Witt Hotel inChicago, and I literally was so
(13:34):
miserable, I was so deep in thedarkness that.
I just am like, I don't care.
I literally don't care anymore.
And the interesting thing wasthat wasn't that wasn't like a
top 50 bad night.
That was a night that was justnormal, bad, not super bad.
And did some things that all ofa sudden, cause social media was
(13:55):
just coming around then.
And I was really gettinginvolved with Twitter as
somebody within a certain sectorof business that was really
gaining a fairly big following.
And I had a podcast then thatwas really popular speaking of
podcasts within the segment.
And so people really werestarting to pay, like they were
noticing who I was and stufflike that.
(14:15):
And so the next morning on May9th, I woke up cause I just
speak that morning.
And was moderately hung over,but I felt horrible, like inside
out, it came to the surf, and Iwas sick of what, like I was
sick of everything.
And I literally remember,sitting, crying, because I felt
(14:36):
so bad in my room before I wentto speak.
And that wasn't super typicalbecause it was really emotional.
But I'm like, something's got tochange.
I know I'm not going to make itthrough this.
They're going to do somethingstupid and somebody's going to
get hurt which would be Godawful.
then I'll be in prison and haveto think about that for the rest
of my life and it's interestingbecause I really didn't, and I
(14:56):
heard this on one of your othershows, That somebody had talked
about.
I really didn't think aboutending my life, right?
That wasn't the option.
I knew it would be another way.
And I spoke that morning and Iwas literally sweating it out
and, mainlining coffee andtrying to get my heart going
again.
And then I immediately, I'mlike, I got to get out of here.
And literally broke down in thecab to the airport.
(15:20):
Like just completely broke downand.
The poor cab driver is probablyI don't know what's going on
back there, and I'm like, I justdon't know what to do.
And the thing that came to mindfirst, and this is where,
there's something bigger in theworld, whatever it's called from
us, I feel in me.
(15:40):
And I thought, I got to callthat guy.
I got to call the guy that I'mstill friends with.
From all those years ago that Istayed in touch with.
I've got to call him and ask,what do I do?
I'm at the end and He was sogentle and gracious and didn't
have any idea.
And he's you make it totomorrow?
(16:01):
Cause I'll meet you for coffeein the morning tomorrow.
I can tell you what I do andshare.
What my path of my journey was.
And I'm like yeah, I can make ittill tomorrow.
And we sat down and he sharedand it makes me emotional to
this day is, that was almost 14years ago.
And he said, look, here's somethings to think about.
(16:22):
Here's what I did.
Here's my whole story.
And he goes just, let's justthink about today.
Don't worry about tomorrow.
Think about today.
Let's just bite size this down.
And let's just figure out what,let's talk about what you're
going to do next.
And he was really prescriptiveon helping me plan out.
And now that I'm years intorecovery and I'm in the mental
(16:42):
health and addiction recoveryspace, one of the important
things in early sobriety orearly recovery doesn't need to
be sobriety, but recovery isplanning out.
So you don't have to think aboutit.
You can just do right.
You start doing things and it'sabout action and it's about,
okay, I'm going to do mychecklist.
I'm going to do these steps.
I'm going to do whatever.
And he really set me on a reallyhealthy path.
(17:03):
I talk about him actually in thebook that I've talked about him
in a couple of books becausehe's he's so important in my
life.
To this day, we talk everycouple weeks.
If I'm lucky every week, butevery couple weeks and we live
in different towns now.
So I saw him a couple weeks ago.
I was back in the town where helives and we had dinner and it's
just such a pleasure to be ableto see him.
(17:25):
And that's that started gettingthe substances out.
And then really getting into thehard work, which is dealing with
all the other shit that I needto unpack and sorting out the
mental health and the emotionalstuff and that's been a very
interesting and what's the rightword?
Curvy, bumpy.
At times inspiring, path, right?
(17:46):
Cause that has a bunch ofdifferent ongoing complexities
to it.
So yeah, that's my sort ofabbreviated long story.
Wow.
Tracey (17:54):
That is quite a story, Bryan.
Wow.
I do have a couple of questions.
Obviously there was a lot inthere to unpack, but I just
wanted to start out by askingwhen you were younger.
How were you getting access toalcohol every day?
Bryan (18:10):
Great question.
And, 1 of those people that justreference things I write in
books.
Cause it, it sounds.
Ridiculously idiotic when you doit, but it was in my second
book.
So I had a cousin who was olderand me and a group of kids
pooled our money.
And every week we would give himmoney and he worked in a
(18:32):
different town.
And so every Friday he wouldbring back our order of alcohol,
we were like 14, right?
So it started out as a 12 packand a case, then a case and a
half of Budweiser bottles,really specific.
And a bottle of pink schnapps,which is horrible and a bottle
(18:52):
of Southern Comfort, which iseven more horrible.
And every Friday, He would bringthat back and then he would take
a six pack and, just as bringingit back.
But that's how we had like aprocess we operationalize what
that whole supply chain looklike.
And if for any reason, it didn'thappen.
(19:13):
And I had a backup with anotherperson I knew who was a
functioning alcoholic andactually had three refrigerators
in his.
Workshop that I knew that Icould get into and get alcohol
if we didn't get it so I had abackup.
I got a plan B.
I was a very strategic.
Resourceful.
Free alcoholic.
(19:33):
Yes, resourceful.
That's the word I was lookingfor, resourceful.
So I was going to saycalculated.
All the above.
All the above.
So it kept us, in booze and Iwas able to, I had to up my game
a little bit when I really trulygot to daily drinking.
So I would get, oh my God, whatwas that called?
(19:55):
It was grape Everclear and Icould put it in grape soda and
it would mask it enough that Iwould be literally buzzed all
day and you couldn't reallysmell it on my breath.
And, it was jet fuel it wasgreat jet fuel and I was sipping
on that all day long and thatallowed me to, when we'd start
(20:16):
drinking after school, whatever,they're like, wow, you get drunk
really quick.
And I was like, yeah, cause I'mtwo sheets to the wind all day
long.
So that was, that's kinda, itjust was resourceful.
That's probably a a good way toput it.
It's very interestingconsidering you said your
parents didn't drink.
So you don't have any history inyour family of alcohol abuse
(20:38):
that you're aware of?
I do.
So I am actually adopted frombirth.
So my mom definitely doesn'tdrink.
She's probably been drunk twotimes in her entire life.
It just isn't her thing.
My father, on the other handhe's one of those people that
naturally can absorb a barrelfull of alcohol and you just
(21:00):
couldn't tell.
And I never saw him drunk, but Isaw him drink him and my uncles.
I would bartend when I was alittle kid for them.
It was great.
And I was like seven or eight.
But they would drink, and Inever saw him drunk, he really
didn't drink when he got older.
That was my environmental piecegrowing up, and but when I got
older, I actually reconnectedwith my birth parents.
(21:22):
And both birth parents.
my.
birth Fathers passed away.
Both parents, alcoholics.
And I have two half sisters whoare in their own programs,
right?
from the perspective of agenetically I was absolutely 100
percent genetically predisposedto, the chronic, the brain
(21:44):
disease of addiction, right?
Whether, and it's not justalcohol.
You can pretty much, go down thelist and I've taken a tour of
duty on almost all the isms forall the, all the addictions.
That's just, It's thepersonality.
So yeah.
That was 100%, part of it.
Wow.
Lindsey (22:01):
Listening to your story, Bryan, I have a question.
We often think that when wedrink, we get something from
alcohol or being drunk, but.
What I'm hearing and even, myown personal experience it
actually take from people likeit takes I'm hearing when you're
(22:22):
16 and you're drinking and then.
It becomes a daily thing.
And you're going down a slopehere where towards the end,
you've got a group of people atwork that are literally no,
okay, we've got to keep them outof jail.
And, there's DUIs and all thiskind of stuff.
So my question for you is, whatdid you think that you were
(22:43):
getting from alcohol?
Yeah, it's an absolutelyinsightful question.
And I did some thinking and haddiscussions on this like
specific question.
And what's interesting is what Iwas getting from it was
initially it was a copingmechanism.
I hadn't developed copingmechanisms.
And so You know, drugs andalcohol aren't always a
(23:06):
cataclysmic, right?
And you're not always, burningyour life down.
You might just be, starting thefire, starting a burner on the
stove to make dinner.
That's the version, right?
And then you figure out that'snot really doing anything for
me.
I need other coping mechanismsto deal with things.
Unfortunately, I am not thatperson, right?
(23:27):
That was my go to copingmechanism, to deal with trying
to change how I felt.
And I found it when I was 14.
And you're exactly right is, itworks till it doesn't work.
And that's a very differentspectrum of how that happens and
what severity and, what degreeof consequences and damage that
it does.
(23:47):
And so mine came pretty fast andfurious.
I would say within a year it wasall that I was thinking about.
And part of what I've thoughtabout that is, and this is a
fairly recent conversation,because I heard this in a
meeting with a recovery group.
And they talked about all thethings that stopped when they
found drugs and alcohol.
(24:08):
All the things that, when you'reyoung, you're trying different
things on, do I write mycreative musically or writing,
or do I like sports or do I likewhatever it is, you have all
these interests, right?
Curiosity is a very human thing.
And all of the curiosity stopsbecause you've found the silver
(24:30):
bullet.
The Holy Grail, the goldenlasso, if you're a, Wonder Woman
fan.
And so all those things juststopped.
And so it's interesting.
I started losing what I wasgaining.
I was losing more than I wasgaining.
Exactly.
And we returned to it despitethe negative consequences.
Like I would have a nightblacking out, acting like a
(24:53):
fool.
And then the next day feelingsuch shame and guilt.
But what do you think I woulddid?
The following weekend, like wecontinue to go back to the thing
that's literally taking from usand changing us and we become
these people at the end thatwe're like, okay, I don't even
know who I am anymore.
So that's a really good pointthat when you're using
substances, drugs and alcohol,the curiosity stops.
Bryan (25:16):
It's totally absolutely just paused.
this is interesting.
I see this in recovery, becauseI'm very, blessed, grateful,
whatever the description, I getto see people come in that I am
not, I really would almost putmoney, they're not going to
make, it right?
It's a really desperatesituation.
(25:38):
And they have everything infront of them that says it's too
big of a hill to climb.
And somehow they get their lifeback and they turn into this
entirely different person andthey go from absolutely
uninteresting and totally selfabsorbed and self involved and
they go from this person that Ihave zero interest to be around
(26:02):
into this absolutelyinteresting, curious, fantastic
personality.
That, really wants to know aboutwhat's going on in the world,
and what you're about, and theyask questions, and it just is
fascinating to see the extremesof that arc.
Right.
(26:23):
But to your point, you have thescale working.
And once you're like, okay, youstart hitting the, this makes me
feel good and this protects meand this changes things for me,
the migration to that becomeslike a survival mechanism as
part of your coping skill,battery, right?
And then everything else stops,right?
Emotionally, all coping skilldevelopment stops, all emotional
(26:46):
development stops.
Because you now have again, minestarted taking much quicker, but
it wasn't readily apparentbecause I was managing it.
I had my mask on I was good atthe facade.
I was clever enough to stayahead of the curve.
And so it took a long time.
And there was a lot of damagedone, right?
(27:07):
Even today, I really think aboutthings recently, I'm like, okay,
I've got to start developmentagain from when I was 14 I'm
identifying that as part of myrecovery.
Part of it is the emotionalrecovery.
I've got to start understandinghow to communicate, how to
emotionally regulate, right?
The list goes on and on of allthe things that I've been able
(27:29):
to unpack now that I'm inrecovery through therapy,
through, group recovery, throughmy own personal exploration.
With breath work, meditation,and then we can go down the list
of trying to find these healthythings to try and just get
better and feel better and tryand be a person that can be a
good steward in the universe tohelp other people.
(27:50):
I was going to say, consideringyou started so young, yeah, you
must have really felt like youhad a lot of work to do to get
to where you are now, because.
You started at an age where youreally hadn't developed any of
those skills yet.
And then you basically put themon pause for how many years?
27.
(28:11):
Yeah.
Yep.
Tracey (28:12):
It doesn't sound like you had a lot of consequences
based on the fact that you weregood at, like you said, to
disguise the mask outside of,you said you got a DUI, but even
that you got off of, you didn'thave, harsh consequences for
that.
Did you have people in yourlife, like your wife, for
instance, Two questions.
Are you still with the samewife?
(28:34):
Because I know you do have awife.
And two, did she question or didpeople in your life close to you
question your relationship withalcohol or your drinking or were
they showing concern?
Very good questions.
No, we divorced after 19 years.
And we worked very hard to makethat.
(28:54):
As gracious as possible becauseI very much respected that time.
So we actually divorced threeyears after I got into recovery.
And I am remarried now for sevenyears two part answer.
So the other one is, I thinkbecause I was so good at
(29:14):
compartmentalizing my life, Ididn't have a lot of people
questioning because I would makesure there wasn't a lot of close
relationships.
Just to give you an example onthis, I thought about this
again, also very recently is Idon't really have any
relationships from high school.
I don't have any relationshipsfrom college.
(29:35):
And it's not like I didn't havefriends and, when I was done.
I just didn't have an abilityto, be a good good friend.
I couldn't attach to arelationship and make it
equitable.
Cause I've, I went back andrevisited periods in my life.
I really didn't, other than theone guy that I called.
and family members.
(29:56):
I really only had and one otherexception.
I only had one person, the oneguy that I called who I had a
relationship.
I didn't really startrelationships until I got in
recovery.
And at that point is when I'mlike, okay, I need help.
And I can't do this alone.
I heard that message, thankgoodness.
(30:17):
And so I started forming theserelationships that to this day
are so special and it's not likeI talk to people every day, but
when we do talk together, it'ssuch an intimate conversation
because I can share anything.
They can share anything.
When they ask how I'm doing,they mean it.
When I ask how they're doing, Iwant to hear what is going on.
(30:39):
And as an adult, It's alwaysinteresting to find those really
intimate adult relationshipsbecause, adulthood is a hard
place to do, that.
And because people are busy andthey have social circles and all
those things.
And but I've been able to startto form those relationships and
they're very important to menow.
But I think back and I justmentioned this to somebody
(31:01):
yesterday who's in recoverythat.
It feels like I have a lostdecade.
Like I don't feel like I'm 10years younger because I'm in a
phase where what I should havebeen doing 10 years ago, I'm now
starting to think and do and beable to do and all that stuff.
This weird, surreal Delta where,and I just have to reconcile,
(31:21):
it's not everything just builtto this moment and be in now be
very present.
And don't worry about that lastdecade because one, you can't do
a damn thing about it.
And just take full advantage ofthe time you have and, be
present.
And but I did I met somebodywhen I was in recovery.
She's not, she's just normaldrinker.
But I was very focused on thefact I didn't want to take all
(31:46):
of Those bad coping skills orlack of coping skills and repeat
them in a new relationship.
So we were both very clear andshe was married previously for a
long time.
We both wanted to work onourselves.
So we really set some prettystrong guidelines to how all
that was going to work.
And had our own lives and allthose things.
(32:08):
We literally, we dated and spenttime for three years before we
actually got married.
And I think we have anincredibly, hopefully knock on
wood, she hears that.
But I think we have anincredibly healthy relationship
because we put it all on thetable.
We communicate, communicate.
And are, I think we're verygreat.
We're very considerate of eachother.
(32:29):
And she puts up with myidiosyncrasies and, she doesn't
have a problem saying, maybe youneed to go to a meeting or maybe
you need to go spend time withone of my good friends who is in
recovery.
That sounds like a good idea,right?
Which means I must be getting alittle bit.
Cranky or something.
But that's good, right?
(32:49):
That's what you need is we're ateam and I love being on her
team.
So that's great.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Good questions by the way.
I'm going to circle back.
So you ask about consequencesand you are exactly right.
In my lifetime, I have wreckedprobably seven cars.
Wow.
(33:11):
And, got thrown in jail and hadto get bailed out and had so
many close calls and, have hadto, pay significant amount of
money to pay the owner of placesthat I've destroyed when I'm in
a blackout.
But I truly did navigate.
a lot of the consequences thatyou hear, and never actually, I
(33:32):
should have, but I neveractually got fired from a job.
when they say miracles happen,that is a miracle.
So as I did about everything totry and get fired, it felt but,
again, one thing I can say aboutmy parents are incredibly, hard
workers to a fault.
So one of the things that Ibattle all the time is, being a
(33:54):
workaholic, right?
Because I do enjoy work, right?
Because I don't know anydifferent, first of all, but, so
I have to really focus on worklife balance like intention.
I set a lot of intention aroundthat, and it's something that I
always can get better at.
Seriously, that's a conversationthat we make sure and have just
so I don't lose track of gettingI got to do this.
(34:15):
I got to do that.
I got to do this.
I can fix that.
Because that's a really easy oneto get wrapped up into because
my identity gets pulled intowhat I'm doing, not who I am.
So we revisit that conversationon a fairly consistent
maintenance based
Kelly (34:33):
What about your health, Brian?
Any consequences with yourhealth after all that?
The only thing is, I think mymemory used to be a little bit
better.
But that's one of those thingsthat, I'm not a hundred percent
sure.
I have been really had the birthlottery on having some
ridiculously resilient DNA.
(34:54):
My DNA is Kevlar.
It's bulletproof.
It's weird.
All that I've done to it, forthe last decade, I've ate pretty
healthy, of course, I always tryand exercise more, of course,
could lose weight and all thosethings.
So that's always top of mind,but as far as like anything that
sticks out no, actually bodiesare incredibly resilient, your
(35:16):
minds are credibly hearts, soulsare incredibly resilient.
Nothing has popped up in a waythat I did any lasting
significant damage that I knowof yet.
Tracey (35:26):
Did you have physical withdrawal though, when you
quit?
Bryan (35:29):
When I actually self detoxed off of there were a
couple of times with drugs Idid, but I didn't with alcohol.
And in part was because I wouldonly drink when I traveled.
I think my body was used to theextremes right complete
saturation maxed out.
To being just a absolute, not,dry drunk as they call it, where
(35:54):
I was just white knuckling andin between the traveling
horrible to be around.
So my body was used to that upand downs.
And so I didn't have any.
Because those are legitimatelydangerous and you can very much
die from that.
Those were all and I talk aboutthat pretty frequently you need
to be a lot more careful than Iwas.
Because I've lost people I knowbecause.
(36:16):
They didn't survive awithdrawal.
And that's legitimately amedical, should be medically
supervised in some respects,right?
There's some that it's probablyokay, but there's other that are
absolutely, it needs to bemedically supervised.
It could need to be medicallysupervised.
It could be a medicalprescription based detox
involved.
When you start talking about allthe complexities of what's out
(36:39):
there now with opioids andeverything else in the mix.
It's a more complicated world.
And we live in today than itwas, 14 years ago.
I would've never survived.
I guarantee it.
If it would have been today, Idefinitely would have been in
prison or I definitely wouldhave been dead.
There's no doubt in my mind.
Wow.
Tracey (36:59):
So why don't you tell us a little bit about the
inspiration for your books,Bryan, and a little more about
them
Bryan (37:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And, and I actually have aquestion.
It's everything I could do tosubdue the interviewer in me,
right?
I just.
What would be a book that eachone of you would write if you
were like, I want to write abook or.
I want to write my next book.
Maybe you've published books.
What's a book that you wouldwant to write just to flip the
(37:25):
script here for a second,Tracey, let's start with you.
Tracey (37:29):
All right.
No pressure.
I think I would really just wantto write about how amazing life
is without alcohol.
Like for me, you alluded tofeeling like you're 10 years
behind, Bryan.
I call that being a latebloomer.
So I say I'm a late bloomerbecause to me, it's like my life
(37:50):
has just been on an upwardtrajectory since I gave up
alcohol and I was doing lifefine and functioning or high
functioning as people like tocall it, which we say is a
facade.
I was doing life fine and justgoing along and I was successful
in my own right, but my life hasjust been at so much more of a
(38:13):
higher vibration and I've had somuch more success because of
that and the way that I'mchoosing to live today.
So that's what I would want toprobably utilize that to inspire
other people.
And what a great title, HigherVibration.
So that's a book that I wouldwalk across the street to go by.
(38:35):
So that sounds awesome.
Lindsay, how about you?
This is how you're sitting on myscreen.
So I'm just going down.
Lindsey (38:41):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
What a great question.
I feel like I've said this onthe podcast before and I've had
conversations with these ladiesthat I feel In my forties now,
and of course being alcoholfree, it's like right now that
I'm just starting to really knowwho I am because I remember when
(39:04):
I was just, I don't know,developing as a person, I was
really shy.
And I think that's part of thereason why I used alcohol.
I feel like.
It helped me come out of myshell, gave me confidence, but
it was all Really fake and itwasn't real and I think
something about just confidentand investing in yourself, with
(39:28):
the things that you feed yourbody and your mind.
It's about the people that yousurround yourself with because
we've all heard this or theaverage of the five people that
you're the closest to or thatyou hang out with.
So just be really mindful.
Of who those people are and whatyou're putting in your brain and
in your body and not beingafraid to speak up, even, like
(39:50):
something as silly as being onan airplane and you're in the
middle seat, but you have to usethe bathroom.
And I would always be so afraidto say something to the person
sitting beside me.
Like I have to get out to, toget up, but it's I think that's
why I used alcohol too.
Because it's I was shy, but alsofelt like I couldn't speak up
even just like little thingslike that.
(40:12):
So I think my book would besomething of a self exploration
discovering who you are, how tobuild confidence.
And for me, it's keeping thepromises to myself and showing
up for myself and those littlethings stack.
Yeah, just how to, speak up, notstay quiet.
And not feeling bad about iteither.
I don't know if any of thatmakes sense.
Bryan (40:33):
Sure.
Now that's a, how powerful,right?
And, and I love, part of beingan author is, I'll share a
little after here in a secondafter we're done coming up with
the title, is a reallyfascinating, like you have a
very fascinating relationshipwith the title and the cover of
your book, and like your booksounds like a title would be
like little things matter.
(40:55):
Or excuse me, I have to pee.
Oh, dude, that's way better.
That's that's the type, that'sawesome.
But little things do matter,right?
I feel like little thingsmatter.
And, this is why, I don't knowif you've read Matthew Perry's
book.
I just cannot stop talking aboutthat book.
I listened to him speak it onaudible and it was insane, but I
(41:18):
feel like something so small,like feeling abandoned by his
mom when he was, younger.
I'm like, damn, these littlethings like that do matter.
And they really shape us.
Yeah, it's important messaging.
Yeah, no, your title was wayactually way better.
That was awesome.
(41:39):
Kelly, what about you?
Oh, title, I don't know.
What you said about thecuriosity stopping really,
speaks to me.
I started drinking either 12 or13 and abused alcohol until I
was 43.
So 30 years of thinking I neededit to be me.
Sure.
And so for the last six years, Ihave been writing writing,
(42:01):
writing every day.
And I just recently moved andI've got this box full of
journals.
So Maybe that'll be a book, whoknows, but it's it's been a
like, like a self discovery thatturned into a really deep
spiritual journey and being ofservice to others and just all
about love, loving ourselves sowe can love others.
(42:24):
Same thing.
I would go out of my way for abook like that, right?
We need, that's the type ofstuff that, the physiology is
survival, so we migrate to thenegative so much quicker.
So setting the intention andfinding really trying to lock
into the vibration of thepositive takes a lot of work
because you're circumventingwhat's naturally, as a human
(42:46):
being, we're survivalists.
And that's everything the wiringis survival.
Yeah that's fantastic.
Actually, just to switch gearshere.
One of my acknowledgements Iactually talk a little bit about
again, another tragedy thatlosing Matthew Perry was.
Because it happened right as Iwas doing the final edit, know
that he died.
(43:07):
And he was doing such goodthings.
And yeah, he was, he just wasreally trying to, use the
resources that he had in hisjourney To try and not make it
as so bad for other people.
Which is right.
I know what you do.
You got to give it away to keepit is one of my most favorite
sayings that I'll ever going tohear.
And I really remember that atall.
(43:27):
It's part of the mantra.
And I'm not a natural writer.
I think I probably skipped thatclass or I wasn't paying
attention.
And so I have to do a lot ofwork.
And I've evolved as a writeractually, but.
It's not like a natural Englishmajor type fluidity.
I was probably, oh my gosh,probably four years sober.
(43:51):
I'm a total abstinence guy.
I can't do the harm reductionroute.
It's just not me, and I don'tsay any pathway for anybody
because that's up to theindividual, but for me, it's.
I can't do it period.
And so I was about four yearssober and I'm like, I think, I'd
really like to write a book.
I talked about it for a coupleof years with a couple of my
(44:13):
business partners and kicked itaround and I'm like, okay, I'm
going to, I'm just going towrite.
I'm going to read a little biton how to do it.
And then I'm just going to startwriting.
And I'm, and my first book was acollection of 99 stories.
I'm like, And I really struggledto write, like it was something
that I was really frustrated.
I happened to read a book by anauthor named Steven Pressfield,
(44:36):
if you're familiar.
He wrote the War of Art.
And turning pro and he stitchedscreen plays like the legend of
bagger Vance.
Was something that he had wrote.
And so he's a pretty prolific,author.
And I read his book and I'mlike, okay, that's how I want to
write my book.
So I found a writing style thatactually made sense to my mind.
(44:59):
Cause I tend to be a bit of a,an academic, like I'm going to
go find somebody who's did itand I'm going to read how they
did it.
And I'm going to see if I can doit the way you're supposed to.
And I just was so frustratedwhen I read his book.
I'm like, Oh, that's totally theway that I think, I'm going to
write like a talk, which is alittle bit abstract.
And I didn't send these weird,ongoing sentences and it's hard
(45:21):
to read at times and which is aquote from my wife, by the way.
And so I'm like, okay, I kind ofhit a way to write a book.
Then I reached out to a coupleof my friends.
I'm like, Hey, can you justwrite, give me 600 words.
And I want to put you in as oneof the stories.
So I just wrote a collection ofthese stories about going
through recovery.
But I wrote it in a very, notexactly saying recovery way,
(45:45):
right?
I wasn't completely coming.
I wasn't so overtly saying it.
So I broached just life and somethings.
And so that was the first one in2015.
Four years later, I publishedthe next one was very overt.
It was called sober is better.
My note to self and it's allpart of a note to self series,
right?
It's about self awareness.
It's about self exploration.
(46:06):
It's about understanding selfabandonment, which is one of my
new terms I recently learned.
So the second one was like zeroto 18 years, right?
There was that phase of life andthen some other commentary and
all right, past that.
And so that second one I trieddifferent writing styles and.
And that was a kind of going tothe next level about
(46:26):
understanding writing and beingan author and, then I got to
this last one.
The last one was reallyinteresting.
It took me a lot longer to writeit.
But the last one, which iscalled, fuck my demons
redefining normal.
I went super edgy on the title.
I had two titles and that one,one out.
And I really talk about angelsand demons, just, symbolically
(46:49):
throughout it and the journey tofind spirit, cause I, I didn't
really understand that.
I wasn't opposed to it growingup.
I didn't have anybody having abad experience, but I didn't
grow up religious.
So I really didn't have any badfeelings about it.
And I'm like, I hope there's ahigher power.
I hope there's a God because I'mscrewed if there's not.
And somebody has got to bewatching out for me.
(47:10):
So I always thought thatprivately.
This has been an incrediblejourney, but this one kind of
goes from 18 to today.
And it's the last series and Iwasn't going to write it because
I thought I didn't have anythingmore to say.
And then I finally, the last 4years in the world has been
unfortunately very interestingand complicated and tragic and
(47:31):
inspiring in some regards.
So I'm like, okay, maybe I dohave a little more to say.
And I wanted to say it and sothat was really where we came
down to the writing this bookand kind of getting it out into
the world and I'm currentlyworking on a couple other books
now one fiction, which I'venever written.
It's all nonfiction so I'mwriting a nonfiction one, and
I'm working on my first fictionone.
(47:52):
Which is really actually a lotof fun because I don't have any
deadlines it's really just inconcept and I'm taking a little
bit of a break because I pushedto get this one done and get it
out and I'm just really busy.
Life gets too busy.
I know it and I start feelingit.
So I've got to be a little moreintentional on my time.
But it's super fun.
(48:12):
I love writing.
It's become really cathartic.
Absolutely.
I'm trying to think aboutwriting very differently.
And I have in the past becauseI'm a binge writer.
I write like I used to drink.
So I'll go, I'll walk into aroom and I'll write for 12 hours
straight.
Once I get in the zone and thenI'm like, Oh my God, I can't
(48:33):
think about writing for weeksbecause I've got this writing
hangover.
So I'm trying to change thatbehavior.
So I'm trying to write moreconsistently just a little bit
every day to reform thosehabits.
And those behaviors intosomething that's more healthy
because I've just been readingabout some of some different
ability to change how you writeand so that it's more an even
(48:55):
stream versus like these bingewriting episodes, because it
feels a bit manic.
And so I'm just trying to changethat up a little bit.
Yeah, so that's the writing.
And I have one other book, butit's about workforce capital and
data and it's boring.
And.
I don't ever talk about itbecause I don't, I got paid to
write it and it's not exciting,nothing at all.
I've never read it.
(49:15):
I've never went back and readit, but it's, it's just there.
So yeah.
Tracey (49:20):
That's awesome, Bryan.
Tell people where they couldfind your books and where they
can find out more about you.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Thank you very much.
And again, thank you so much forthe conversation, having me on.
You do incredibly good.
Storytelling and the way you dothings with your podcast is
fantastic.
So thank you for putting thatinto the world.
First of all they can go to mywebsite.
(49:42):
My author website is justbryanwempen.
com.
I think there's only two of usin the universe, so it's pretty
easy to find.
And then, I'm on Barnes andNoble and Amazon and, all the
different places.
And my publisher for the firsttwo books was Inheritance Press
and they really got me going.
So find it through there.
And then for this third book, Iactually started a publishing
(50:04):
company that I went through thelearning, the publishing
process, why it's part of thereason it took longer.
And so I've started a publishingcompany called Red Yarrow Books,
and I was able to my, this bookthrough my own publishing
company.
And so That's one of the thingsI'm going to do in 2025 is look
for more authors as you thinkabout writing your book.
(50:24):
Very cool.
We know where to go.
Even if it's to ask what do youthink or whatever.
But, so yeah, so I'm justexcited to dig into that.
But yeah, so bryanwempen.
com, you can find pretty muchanything.
Or our friends from Google, youcan definitely find.
Pretty much find me everywherethere.
We'll put your website in ourshow notes for the podcast here,
(50:46):
Bryan so people can find you.
Are you on social media at all?
I am.
I've got a fairly large I'vebeen on Twitter for a long time.
So I've got a fairly large groupthere.
And I do on LinkedIn a lot.
I'm not on Facebook.
I'm on Instagram because I thinkit's interesting and it lets me
connect with some interestingpeople.
(51:07):
And I love getting lost inInstagram for a little bit.
I think it's fascinating.
And I follow a lot of musicthere and some comedians and a
lot of, My wife's MexicanAmerican, so I follow a lot of
stuff from Mexico, culturallyand different around the world.
But yeah, other than that, it'smainly Twitter and linkedIn, and
it's all Bryan Wempen.
I've stuck to that specifically.
(51:28):
So I haven't got super creativeoutside of that.
I just wanted to ask you onelast question because there was
a quote in your bio there that.
I thought was interesting and Iliked it so I wanted to know
what it really means to you.
You had, I am interested inwhole person healing and
expanding life adventures, notjust sobriety.
Bryan (51:51):
Yeah.
That's always good to highlightbecause I love, and I'm very
respectful of people that theirsober community and their
recovery community is reallywhat they've built their life
around.
It feels good.
That's a great group of peopleto be around.
And that's exactly what theywant.
And I respect that.
(52:11):
Absolutely.
I want my life to be verymultifaceted and I know that my
recovery is absolutely thenumber one thing that I start my
day and end my day with, right?
That's the discipline andstructure I put in place to ask
for help, something greater thanmyself help me be a good person
(52:32):
through the day.
And at very least, I meditate,And at the end of the day, I try
and remember to, just thank youfor getting me through the day
and letting me do it, inrecovery and sober, right?
And thank, the great mystery assome of my native friends call
it.
I thank them for putting thepeople in my life that I have in
(52:53):
my life today and theopportunities I have to actually
be of service.
and be a positive person in myown life, first of all and other
people's life and just be, tryand help.
So that's what that means I wantmy life to be very full and I
want it to be about culture andI don't want to avoid things
(53:14):
because there's alcohol or, Idon't tend to stray into where
there's hardcore narcotics beingused.
I'm not.
open minded yet, but I try andstay out of it because it's
illegal first of all but I tendto, go to places, and alcohol is
all right for a lot of people.
Like it's fine.
Like they're good.
(53:34):
They can drink their half aglass of wine or they can have a
couple sips of, a high ball andthey're good and it doesn't
matter, but it matters to me.
So I have to just be like, okay.
I'm good with it, right?
So that's what that means.
That's the long answer to thequestion.
But I do have one more thing Iwant to go back on.
I think lots of peopleapproached me about their
concern of my behavior anddrinking over the years.
(53:58):
And I absolutely don't rememberit.
And I didn't choose to hear it.
I didn't have a capacity to hearwhat they were asking about.
And I think that probablyhappened.
And I'm really thankful theytried.
I'm very confident that peopletried because I've had a lot of
good people in my life that, Ijust wasn't able to maintain
relationships with, and I can'tbelieve they all were, I'm not
(54:20):
that good, that I could hide itthat well.
I just think I didn't rememberor I blocked it out and just
didn't pay attention.
So I just wanted to go back tothat.
Tracey (54:29):
No, that's great.
Thank you so much, Bryan.
It's been such a pleasure.
Thanks for spending time withus.
It's been such a greatconversation and we've really
enjoyed it.
And we'll make sure that weshare all your info out there
we'll look forward to seeingyour next book.
That should be interesting.
So good for you.
Good luck with that one.
And you can find us on socialmedia at LAF Life Podcast on
(54:55):
Instagram, LAF Life on Facebook.
We have our Facebook community,and we have our website,
laflifepodcast.
com.
Until next time, you know whatto do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (55:09):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
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Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsay Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Tracey (00:40):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the LAF Life
podcast.
This is season three tonight wehave another wonderful guest
accomplished author Brian Wempenand we are so excited to have
Brian with us Brian has written3 books around sobriety and
recovery.
and he just released his 3rd inJanuary.
(01:02):
So we will dive into that withBrian a little later, but we
want to start off Brian bywelcoming you.
Hello.
Bryan (01:09):
Hey, thank you so much for spending a little time and
allowing me to come on and chitchat for a bit.
Tracey (01:17):
Yeah, we're happy to have you.
I know based on your bio thatthe first two books you wrote
were around sobriety andrecovery.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about your personal
journey to that and how thosebooks came about?
Bryan (01:32):
Sure.
That's a great way to start.
Yeah, so I literally been veryquintessential and, I started
dabbling a little bit here andthere and sneaking drinks when I
was little.
Then, I think at 13 actually 13,14, it's a little blurry, but
was the first time that I hadabsolute opportunity to just get
(01:53):
the gas 100 percent and drink asmuch as I wanted to for the very
first time.
At an older high school party.
me and another kid got invitedbecause we were was pretty good
at sports and so I started, as afreshman with seniors and so we
got invited.
We somehow scammed our way intogetting there talking his mom
(02:16):
into dropping us off this randomhouse in a different town.
And that was the first time.
And I absolutely was beyondmyself at how much fun I was
having.
And the very first time, that Iwas able to do that completely
blacked out threw up.
Started a fight.
It was a full evening and, afterthat, I was like, oh, my gosh, I
(02:40):
don't really want to wait untilthe next time to drink.
I was chasing it because itconquered all of the voices, all
the, self consciousness.
I felt just as funny as Ithought I was and all those
things.
And from there I was verypreoccupied.
So from the get go firstopportunity, I was rolling and
Tracey (03:00):
wow.
Even after puking and blacking
Bryan (03:03):
out.
Yeah, it was a great, I was soready to go again.
And, once I got to the nextmorning and, settled down a
little bit, I'm like, that wasawesome.
That was really freedom.
It was like emotional freedomfor the first time that I could
remember.
So move along a couple of years.
By 16, I was a daily drinker andI was really good at hiding it.
(03:25):
I was in a small school.
My parents really didn't drink.
We had other issues, but not somuch drinking.
And I had to really hide it andput people around me that would,
if I got caught, would cover me.
And I made a whole lifetime outof that.
really how I operated, wasgetting people around me.
I could trust who drank, triedto drink and I didn't do drugs
(03:48):
at that time.
And yeah, so daily drinker.
So it was then about figuringout how can I acquire alcohol
consistently?
And then how can I not getcaught and get in trouble and
try and maintain and, wrecked abunch of cars, almost got
arrested a bunch of times.
Good or bad, my father was knownby the sheriff's office when
(04:12):
they needed help with somethinglike in the middle of the night,
if they needed pulled out of aditch somewhere, they would call
my dad.
And so my dad knew all thecounty sheriffs and police
officers.
So when I would get in trouble,They would be like, man, do you
want us to tell your father?
And I'm like, absolutely not.
He was volatile at that time.
(04:33):
And hell no, I don't want to,I'm scared to death of him.
And so they would be like, okaywe're not going to take you in
this time.
We'll take you home and we'lltake your booze.
But you're not going to get introuble.
So I had it covered.
It just progressively got worseand, graduated early, went into
the military.
I had a period when I was 17, Ididn't drink for five months,
(04:54):
because I was in basic trainingin AIT.
Which that was good because ittook my mind off things and I
thought it'll totally bedifferent.
I did have a thought.
It would be different when I gotdone.
And man, I got back and it waslike catching up time.
I had total freedom.
I was heading to university.
I always got fairly good grades.
(05:14):
And always stayed out of troublebecause I got good grades.
I was attentive enough.
I was a, I was a fairly niceperson.
And so I was able to navigateeverything going on, and fixing
the air of my ways in mid flightjust to stay enough out of
trouble and try and stay alive.
Once I hit college though, and Ihad complete freedom, and that's
where I actually found drugs forthe first time.
(05:36):
And that was literally like the,we call them here, the HOV lane,
right?
Where you get, you can go fasterand clear lane.
To absolute the abyss.
I always worked hard, neveractually got fired from a job
because I was a really hardworker when I was there and I
was clever enough and funnyenough, and nice enough that
they would just chew me out.
(05:57):
and let me go back to work,right?
Because if they needed me andthey needed something hard done,
they could always call them.
I was always a hard worker.
I grew up on a ranch.
So I was a hard worker, thankGod, or I would have, it would
have been worse quicker, but itreally did hit when I was 22.
OD'd starting to do cocaine andmeth and because I could drink
(06:17):
more and every other drug I'dget my hand on if it wasn't a
needle, because I don't likeneedles, thank goodness but I
was like, if it could make me gofaster, I could drink more, I
could drink faster, I was allover it once I OD'd, I had a
light go on, this is one of kindof those early somebody's
watching out for me, not myselfmoments.
(06:38):
I am like, okay, this mightactually kill me.
I know my drink quite a bit, butthis might actually legitimately
tell me.
It was about a year that I wastrying to quit, and I was
drinking a lot more, but Iwasn't using as much and then I
would go out on these hugebenches weeks at a time.
Then I graduated, I had auniversity that very graciously.
(06:59):
imparted a degree on me, whichto this day, I'm very thankful
that they were generous isprobably a, an understatement to
get me out of there.
Then I moved and I completelydisconnected from all of my
sources for The drugs and thatwas literally, I used one more
time that was 1990, goodness,1993, and I used one more time
(07:22):
in 96, briefly, and then I justnever did it again, but I was
drinking like, all day, everyday.
Just to, to oblivion.
I was bartending.
So I had full access literally24 hours a day to alcohol.
It got really dark and I justwas in this silo, and in my own
(07:44):
head and the silo and stuff.
That's that's how I got into theworking adult world.
Ended up, and I was good at thecall it geographics.
I was good at, I'm going to takethis new job or a new role and
move there, and I think it'll bebetter, and I'm going to go
here.
And I was really good at fixingproblems for a company that I
started with and it seemed toclick and they had a culture of,
(08:06):
we don't really care how hardyou party if you work hard.
And so I'm like, oh this is, Iliterally, I think The universe
is okay, we'll see how much youcan actually take.
And they put me in a situationwhere I worked really hard and I
absolutely partied really hard.
It was the perfect environmentbecause they were growing fast.
(08:29):
And I started, okay, I'll takethat and I'll move to the West
coast in the U S and I'll moveto Puerto Rico and fix problems
there.
And then I'll move to the UK andfix problems there.
Then I'll move to Atlanta.
I was literally like thepicture.
And they were paying me more andmore money and my dysfunction
and unhappiness was faroutpacing my success.
And my success was really high.
(08:50):
Like I was doing really welldespite myself, and I had a lot
of responsibility, had tons ofpeople reported to me.
And I created a team of peoplethat would, get me home at
night.
And.
would keep me out of jail and ifI got arrested would come pick
me up, they bail me out and theywould, they were good at
(09:10):
protecting me because I hadsurrounded myself with a, a team
of Protectors slash enablersthat, when I was not in that
mode, I was good at what I didand it was helping people.
And yeah, it was pretty dark.
And and during that time, gotmarried and had other
responsibilities And so Istarted to only drink when I
(09:31):
traveled away for our work and Iwould definitely make up time
right soon as I hit the airportto soon as try and make it
through landing get to the hoteland then hotels always had a
bar.
And then I was always out witheverybody that I was there.
And I really turned into this, Ihad two or three very different
(09:52):
lives, which is, not an uncommonstatement.
And when I try and quit, thedepression would hit.
When I drink more, thedepression would hit.
So I was navigating this,something I didn't quite
understand.
and I was traveling everywhere.
So it was hard for people to pinme down because I had so many
places that I was doing thingsand had enough money to be able
(10:14):
to bury the issues and fix theissues.
Yeah, so it got to the point andcome to the end here is, I met a
guy cause I left that companycause it was such a toxic
environment.
Oh my God.
There was every rule violated.
From human rights to pick acategory of discrimination.
(10:35):
It was not a great company andthe leadership there.
So I decided I couldn't do thatanymore.
It was horrible.
So I left and started my ownconsulting firm, which is, not
great when you're, a heavydrinker because nobody then is,
paying attention.
So bought a software company,started a consulting company,
had all these things.
I ended up merging my companywith somebody else.
(10:58):
this is really important.
He was in recovery I'd beenexposed to 12 step programs and
different stuff through somefamily members and had.
actually tried to go to somemeetings, some AA meetings and
take that pathway a few times.
And, just wasn't there.
And I met this guy and I'm like,Oh, that's interesting.
(11:18):
Cause he was a great guy, but hehad a story.
Wow.
but he was now successful.
He was in recovery and he cameinto my life.
We merged companies.
And he was more gracious than heprobably should have been as a
friend based on my behavior.
And how I, took all theshortcuts around stuff in
business.
So we ended up, parting ways.
(11:39):
I left the company after wemerged it.
But we always stayed in touch,always did.
I just knew he was important tome.
I just didn't know why other, hewas a great guy.
I got a DUI in 1995 and was outwith my boss and the people
working for me with that oldcompany.
And so I never lost my license.
It never hit my insurance.
(12:00):
Literally, I did some communityservice and got navigated a
loophole in a system thatallowed me to walk away from
that.
With really no other than ittook 10 percent of my annual
salary at that time to sort outthat deal, but I had no lasting
effect.
And so I don't drink and driveanymore because part of the deal
(12:21):
was I could never get a secondDUI or it was a felony.
That was part of the deal.
And so I was really good aboutthat.
And then February of 2010.
Something happens.
I don't know what it was.
And it was like, I crossed theline where I literally had this
emotional, like I, I said it outloud.
(12:42):
I just don't give a fuckanymore.
Like I crossed that line, thebarrier had been crossed.
And I've said that many times,but the line had moved to, I
literally don't care aboutanything.
And it was a really dangerousline because.
I started, driving while I wasdrunk again and blacked out and
started getting totally wastedat industry functions with
(13:06):
colleagues and stuff verypublic.
And it was so unusual cause Iwas so guarded about those
things.
People didn't right away put twoand two together, so there were
a couple incidents that weregetting there and I was like,
whatever.
And I was in Chicago on May 8th.
I went for a conference I wasspeaking.
And I was at the Witt Hotel inChicago, and I literally was so
(13:34):
miserable, I was so deep in thedarkness that.
I just am like, I don't care.
I literally don't care anymore.
And the interesting thing wasthat wasn't that wasn't like a
top 50 bad night.
That was a night that was justnormal, bad, not super bad.
And did some things that all ofa sudden, cause social media was
(13:55):
just coming around then.
And I was really gettinginvolved with Twitter as
somebody within a certain sectorof business that was really
gaining a fairly big following.
And I had a podcast then thatwas really popular speaking of
podcasts within the segment.
And so people really werestarting to pay, like they were
noticing who I was and stufflike that.
(14:15):
And so the next morning on May9th, I woke up cause I just
speak that morning.
And was moderately hung over,but I felt horrible, like inside
out, it came to the surf, and Iwas sick of what, like I was
sick of everything.
And I literally remember,sitting, crying, because I felt
(14:36):
so bad in my room before I wentto speak.
And that wasn't super typicalbecause it was really emotional.
But I'm like, something's got tochange.
I know I'm not going to make itthrough this.
They're going to do somethingstupid and somebody's going to
get hurt which would be Godawful.
then I'll be in prison and haveto think about that for the rest
of my life and it's interestingbecause I really didn't, and I
(14:56):
heard this on one of your othershows, That somebody had talked
about.
I really didn't think aboutending my life, right?
That wasn't the option.
I knew it would be another way.
And I spoke that morning and Iwas literally sweating it out
and, mainlining coffee andtrying to get my heart going
again.
And then I immediately, I'mlike, I got to get out of here.
And literally broke down in thecab to the airport.
(15:20):
Like just completely broke downand.
The poor cab driver is probablyI don't know what's going on
back there, and I'm like, I justdon't know what to do.
And the thing that came to mindfirst, and this is where,
there's something bigger in theworld, whatever it's called from
us, I feel in me.
(15:40):
And I thought, I got to callthat guy.
I got to call the guy that I'mstill friends with.
From all those years ago that Istayed in touch with.
I've got to call him and ask,what do I do?
I'm at the end and He was sogentle and gracious and didn't
have any idea.
And he's you make it totomorrow?
(16:01):
Cause I'll meet you for coffeein the morning tomorrow.
I can tell you what I do andshare.
What my path of my journey was.
And I'm like yeah, I can make ittill tomorrow.
And we sat down and he sharedand it makes me emotional to
this day is, that was almost 14years ago.
And he said, look, here's somethings to think about.
(16:22):
Here's what I did.
Here's my whole story.
And he goes just, let's justthink about today.
Don't worry about tomorrow.
Think about today.
Let's just bite size this down.
And let's just figure out what,let's talk about what you're
going to do next.
And he was really prescriptiveon helping me plan out.
And now that I'm years intorecovery and I'm in the mental
(16:42):
health and addiction recoveryspace, one of the important
things in early sobriety orearly recovery doesn't need to
be sobriety, but recovery isplanning out.
So you don't have to think aboutit.
You can just do right.
You start doing things and it'sabout action and it's about,
okay, I'm going to do mychecklist.
I'm going to do these steps.
I'm going to do whatever.
And he really set me on a reallyhealthy path.
(17:03):
I talk about him actually in thebook that I've talked about him
in a couple of books becausehe's he's so important in my
life.
To this day, we talk everycouple weeks.
If I'm lucky every week, butevery couple weeks and we live
in different towns now.
So I saw him a couple weeks ago.
I was back in the town where helives and we had dinner and it's
just such a pleasure to be ableto see him.
(17:25):
And that's that started gettingthe substances out.
And then really getting into thehard work, which is dealing with
all the other shit that I needto unpack and sorting out the
mental health and the emotionalstuff and that's been a very
interesting and what's the rightword?
Curvy, bumpy.
At times inspiring, path, right?
(17:46):
Cause that has a bunch ofdifferent ongoing complexities
to it.
So yeah, that's my sort ofabbreviated long story.
Wow.
Tracey (17:54):
That is quite a story, Bryan.
Wow.
I do have a couple of questions.
Obviously there was a lot inthere to unpack, but I just
wanted to start out by askingwhen you were younger.
How were you getting access toalcohol every day?
Bryan (18:10):
Great question.
And, 1 of those people that justreference things I write in
books.
Cause it, it sounds.
Ridiculously idiotic when you doit, but it was in my second
book.
So I had a cousin who was olderand me and a group of kids
pooled our money.
And every week we would give himmoney and he worked in a
(18:32):
different town.
And so every Friday he wouldbring back our order of alcohol,
we were like 14, right?
So it started out as a 12 packand a case, then a case and a
half of Budweiser bottles,really specific.
And a bottle of pink schnapps,which is horrible and a bottle
(18:52):
of Southern Comfort, which iseven more horrible.
And every Friday, He would bringthat back and then he would take
a six pack and, just as bringingit back.
But that's how we had like aprocess we operationalize what
that whole supply chain looklike.
And if for any reason, it didn'thappen.
(19:13):
And I had a backup with anotherperson I knew who was a
functioning alcoholic andactually had three refrigerators
in his.
Workshop that I knew that Icould get into and get alcohol
if we didn't get it so I had abackup.
I got a plan B.
I was a very strategic.
Resourceful.
Free alcoholic.
(19:33):
Yes, resourceful.
That's the word I was lookingfor, resourceful.
So I was going to saycalculated.
All the above.
All the above.
So it kept us, in booze and Iwas able to, I had to up my game
a little bit when I really trulygot to daily drinking.
So I would get, oh my God, whatwas that called?
(19:55):
It was grape Everclear and Icould put it in grape soda and
it would mask it enough that Iwould be literally buzzed all
day and you couldn't reallysmell it on my breath.
And, it was jet fuel it wasgreat jet fuel and I was sipping
on that all day long and thatallowed me to, when we'd start
(20:16):
drinking after school, whatever,they're like, wow, you get drunk
really quick.
And I was like, yeah, cause I'mtwo sheets to the wind all day
long.
So that was, that's kinda, itjust was resourceful.
That's probably a a good way toput it.
It's very interestingconsidering you said your
parents didn't drink.
So you don't have any history inyour family of alcohol abuse
(20:38):
that you're aware of?
I do.
So I am actually adopted frombirth.
So my mom definitely doesn'tdrink.
She's probably been drunk twotimes in her entire life.
It just isn't her thing.
My father, on the other handhe's one of those people that
naturally can absorb a barrelfull of alcohol and you just
(21:00):
couldn't tell.
And I never saw him drunk, but Isaw him drink him and my uncles.
I would bartend when I was alittle kid for them.
It was great.
And I was like seven or eight.
But they would drink, and Inever saw him drunk, he really
didn't drink when he got older.
That was my environmental piecegrowing up, and but when I got
older, I actually reconnectedwith my birth parents.
(21:22):
And both birth parents.
my.
birth Fathers passed away.
Both parents, alcoholics.
And I have two half sisters whoare in their own programs,
right?
from the perspective of agenetically I was absolutely 100
percent genetically predisposedto, the chronic, the brain
(21:44):
disease of addiction, right?
Whether, and it's not justalcohol.
You can pretty much, go down thelist and I've taken a tour of
duty on almost all the isms forall the, all the addictions.
That's just, It's thepersonality.
So yeah.
That was 100%, part of it.
Wow.
Lindsey (22:01):
Listening to your story, Bryan, I have a question.
We often think that when wedrink, we get something from
alcohol or being drunk, but.
What I'm hearing and even, myown personal experience it
actually take from people likeit takes I'm hearing when you're
(22:22):
16 and you're drinking and then.
It becomes a daily thing.
And you're going down a slopehere where towards the end,
you've got a group of people atwork that are literally no,
okay, we've got to keep them outof jail.
And, there's DUIs and all thiskind of stuff.
So my question for you is, whatdid you think that you were
(22:43):
getting from alcohol?
Yeah, it's an absolutelyinsightful question.
And I did some thinking and haddiscussions on this like
specific question.
And what's interesting is what Iwas getting from it was
initially it was a copingmechanism.
I hadn't developed copingmechanisms.
And so You know, drugs andalcohol aren't always a
(23:06):
cataclysmic, right?
And you're not always, burningyour life down.
You might just be, starting thefire, starting a burner on the
stove to make dinner.
That's the version, right?
And then you figure out that'snot really doing anything for
me.
I need other coping mechanismsto deal with things.
Unfortunately, I am not thatperson, right?
(23:27):
That was my go to copingmechanism, to deal with trying
to change how I felt.
And I found it when I was 14.
And you're exactly right is, itworks till it doesn't work.
And that's a very differentspectrum of how that happens and
what severity and, what degreeof consequences and damage that
it does.
(23:47):
And so mine came pretty fast andfurious.
I would say within a year it wasall that I was thinking about.
And part of what I've thoughtabout that is, and this is a
fairly recent conversation,because I heard this in a
meeting with a recovery group.
And they talked about all thethings that stopped when they
found drugs and alcohol.
(24:08):
All the things that, when you'reyoung, you're trying different
things on, do I write mycreative musically or writing,
or do I like sports or do I likewhatever it is, you have all
these interests, right?
Curiosity is a very human thing.
And all of the curiosity stopsbecause you've found the silver
(24:30):
bullet.
The Holy Grail, the goldenlasso, if you're a, Wonder Woman
fan.
And so all those things juststopped.
And so it's interesting.
I started losing what I wasgaining.
I was losing more than I wasgaining.
Exactly.
And we returned to it despitethe negative consequences.
Like I would have a nightblacking out, acting like a
(24:53):
fool.
And then the next day feelingsuch shame and guilt.
But what do you think I woulddid?
The following weekend, like wecontinue to go back to the thing
that's literally taking from usand changing us and we become
these people at the end thatwe're like, okay, I don't even
know who I am anymore.
So that's a really good pointthat when you're using
substances, drugs and alcohol,the curiosity stops.
Bryan (25:16):
It's totally absolutely just paused.
this is interesting.
I see this in recovery, becauseI'm very, blessed, grateful,
whatever the description, I getto see people come in that I am
not, I really would almost putmoney, they're not going to
make, it right?
It's a really desperatesituation.
(25:38):
And they have everything infront of them that says it's too
big of a hill to climb.
And somehow they get their lifeback and they turn into this
entirely different person andthey go from absolutely
uninteresting and totally selfabsorbed and self involved and
they go from this person that Ihave zero interest to be around
(26:02):
into this absolutelyinteresting, curious, fantastic
personality.
That, really wants to know aboutwhat's going on in the world,
and what you're about, and theyask questions, and it just is
fascinating to see the extremesof that arc.
Right.
(26:23):
But to your point, you have thescale working.
And once you're like, okay, youstart hitting the, this makes me
feel good and this protects meand this changes things for me,
the migration to that becomeslike a survival mechanism as
part of your coping skill,battery, right?
And then everything else stops,right?
Emotionally, all coping skilldevelopment stops, all emotional
(26:46):
development stops.
Because you now have again, minestarted taking much quicker, but
it wasn't readily apparentbecause I was managing it.
I had my mask on I was good atthe facade.
I was clever enough to stayahead of the curve.
And so it took a long time.
And there was a lot of damagedone, right?
(27:07):
Even today, I really think aboutthings recently, I'm like, okay,
I've got to start developmentagain from when I was 14 I'm
identifying that as part of myrecovery.
Part of it is the emotionalrecovery.
I've got to start understandinghow to communicate, how to
emotionally regulate, right?
The list goes on and on of allthe things that I've been able
(27:29):
to unpack now that I'm inrecovery through therapy,
through, group recovery, throughmy own personal exploration.
With breath work, meditation,and then we can go down the list
of trying to find these healthythings to try and just get
better and feel better and tryand be a person that can be a
good steward in the universe tohelp other people.
(27:50):
I was going to say, consideringyou started so young, yeah, you
must have really felt like youhad a lot of work to do to get
to where you are now, because.
You started at an age where youreally hadn't developed any of
those skills yet.
And then you basically put themon pause for how many years?
27.
(28:11):
Yeah.
Yep.
Tracey (28:12):
It doesn't sound like you had a lot of consequences
based on the fact that you weregood at, like you said, to
disguise the mask outside of,you said you got a DUI, but even
that you got off of, you didn'thave, harsh consequences for
that.
Did you have people in yourlife, like your wife, for
instance, Two questions.
Are you still with the samewife?
(28:34):
Because I know you do have awife.
And two, did she question or didpeople in your life close to you
question your relationship withalcohol or your drinking or were
they showing concern?
Very good questions.
No, we divorced after 19 years.
And we worked very hard to makethat.
(28:54):
As gracious as possible becauseI very much respected that time.
So we actually divorced threeyears after I got into recovery.
And I am remarried now for sevenyears two part answer.
So the other one is, I thinkbecause I was so good at
(29:14):
compartmentalizing my life, Ididn't have a lot of people
questioning because I would makesure there wasn't a lot of close
relationships.
Just to give you an example onthis, I thought about this
again, also very recently is Idon't really have any
relationships from high school.
I don't have any relationshipsfrom college.
(29:35):
And it's not like I didn't havefriends and, when I was done.
I just didn't have an abilityto, be a good good friend.
I couldn't attach to arelationship and make it
equitable.
Cause I've, I went back andrevisited periods in my life.
I really didn't, other than theone guy that I called.
and family members.
(29:56):
I really only had and one otherexception.
I only had one person, the oneguy that I called who I had a
relationship.
I didn't really startrelationships until I got in
recovery.
And at that point is when I'mlike, okay, I need help.
And I can't do this alone.
I heard that message, thankgoodness.
(30:17):
And so I started forming theserelationships that to this day
are so special and it's not likeI talk to people every day, but
when we do talk together, it'ssuch an intimate conversation
because I can share anything.
They can share anything.
When they ask how I'm doing,they mean it.
When I ask how they're doing, Iwant to hear what is going on.
(30:39):
And as an adult, It's alwaysinteresting to find those really
intimate adult relationshipsbecause, adulthood is a hard
place to do, that.
And because people are busy andthey have social circles and all
those things.
And but I've been able to startto form those relationships and
they're very important to menow.
But I think back and I justmentioned this to somebody
(31:01):
yesterday who's in recoverythat.
It feels like I have a lostdecade.
Like I don't feel like I'm 10years younger because I'm in a
phase where what I should havebeen doing 10 years ago, I'm now
starting to think and do and beable to do and all that stuff.
This weird, surreal Delta where,and I just have to reconcile,
(31:21):
it's not everything just builtto this moment and be in now be
very present.
And don't worry about that lastdecade because one, you can't do
a damn thing about it.
And just take full advantage ofthe time you have and, be
present.
And but I did I met somebodywhen I was in recovery.
She's not, she's just normaldrinker.
But I was very focused on thefact I didn't want to take all
(31:46):
of Those bad coping skills orlack of coping skills and repeat
them in a new relationship.
So we were both very clear andshe was married previously for a
long time.
We both wanted to work onourselves.
So we really set some prettystrong guidelines to how all
that was going to work.
And had our own lives and allthose things.
(32:08):
We literally, we dated and spenttime for three years before we
actually got married.
And I think we have anincredibly, hopefully knock on
wood, she hears that.
But I think we have anincredibly healthy relationship
because we put it all on thetable.
We communicate, communicate.
And are, I think we're verygreat.
We're very considerate of eachother.
(32:29):
And she puts up with myidiosyncrasies and, she doesn't
have a problem saying, maybe youneed to go to a meeting or maybe
you need to go spend time withone of my good friends who is in
recovery.
That sounds like a good idea,right?
Which means I must be getting alittle bit.
Cranky or something.
But that's good, right?
(32:49):
That's what you need is we're ateam and I love being on her
team.
So that's great.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Good questions by the way.
I'm going to circle back.
So you ask about consequencesand you are exactly right.
In my lifetime, I have wreckedprobably seven cars.
Wow.
(33:11):
And, got thrown in jail and hadto get bailed out and had so
many close calls and, have hadto, pay significant amount of
money to pay the owner of placesthat I've destroyed when I'm in
a blackout.
But I truly did navigate.
a lot of the consequences thatyou hear, and never actually, I
(33:32):
should have, but I neveractually got fired from a job.
when they say miracles happen,that is a miracle.
So as I did about everything totry and get fired, it felt but,
again, one thing I can say aboutmy parents are incredibly, hard
workers to a fault.
So one of the things that Ibattle all the time is, being a
(33:54):
workaholic, right?
Because I do enjoy work, right?
Because I don't know anydifferent, first of all, but, so
I have to really focus on worklife balance like intention.
I set a lot of intention aroundthat, and it's something that I
always can get better at.
Seriously, that's a conversationthat we make sure and have just
so I don't lose track of gettingI got to do this.
(34:15):
I got to do that.
I got to do this.
I can fix that.
Because that's a really easy oneto get wrapped up into because
my identity gets pulled intowhat I'm doing, not who I am.
So we revisit that conversationon a fairly consistent
maintenance based
Kelly (34:33):
What about your health, Brian?
Any consequences with yourhealth after all that?
The only thing is, I think mymemory used to be a little bit
better.
But that's one of those thingsthat, I'm not a hundred percent
sure.
I have been really had the birthlottery on having some
ridiculously resilient DNA.
(34:54):
My DNA is Kevlar.
It's bulletproof.
It's weird.
All that I've done to it, forthe last decade, I've ate pretty
healthy, of course, I always tryand exercise more, of course,
could lose weight and all thosethings.
So that's always top of mind,but as far as like anything that
sticks out no, actually bodiesare incredibly resilient, your
(35:16):
minds are credibly hearts, soulsare incredibly resilient.
Nothing has popped up in a waythat I did any lasting
significant damage that I knowof yet.
Tracey (35:26):
Did you have physical withdrawal though, when you
quit?
Bryan (35:29):
When I actually self detoxed off of there were a
couple of times with drugs Idid, but I didn't with alcohol.
And in part was because I wouldonly drink when I traveled.
I think my body was used to theextremes right complete
saturation maxed out.
To being just a absolute, not,dry drunk as they call it, where
(35:54):
I was just white knuckling andin between the traveling
horrible to be around.
So my body was used to that upand downs.
And so I didn't have any.
Because those are legitimatelydangerous and you can very much
die from that.
Those were all and I talk aboutthat pretty frequently you need
to be a lot more careful than Iwas.
Because I've lost people I knowbecause.
(36:16):
They didn't survive awithdrawal.
And that's legitimately amedical, should be medically
supervised in some respects,right?
There's some that it's probablyokay, but there's other that are
absolutely, it needs to bemedically supervised.
It could need to be medicallysupervised.
It could be a medicalprescription based detox
involved.
When you start talking about allthe complexities of what's out
(36:39):
there now with opioids andeverything else in the mix.
It's a more complicated world.
And we live in today than itwas, 14 years ago.
I would've never survived.
I guarantee it.
If it would have been today, Idefinitely would have been in
prison or I definitely wouldhave been dead.
There's no doubt in my mind.
Wow.
Tracey (36:59):
So why don't you tell us a little bit about the
inspiration for your books,Bryan, and a little more about
them
Bryan (37:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And, and I actually have aquestion.
It's everything I could do tosubdue the interviewer in me,
right?
I just.
What would be a book that eachone of you would write if you
were like, I want to write abook or.
I want to write my next book.
Maybe you've published books.
What's a book that you wouldwant to write just to flip the
(37:25):
script here for a second,Tracey, let's start with you.
Tracey (37:29):
All right.
No pressure.
I think I would really just wantto write about how amazing life
is without alcohol.
Like for me, you alluded tofeeling like you're 10 years
behind, Bryan.
I call that being a latebloomer.
So I say I'm a late bloomerbecause to me, it's like my life
(37:50):
has just been on an upwardtrajectory since I gave up
alcohol and I was doing lifefine and functioning or high
functioning as people like tocall it, which we say is a
facade.
I was doing life fine and justgoing along and I was successful
in my own right, but my life hasjust been at so much more of a
(38:13):
higher vibration and I've had somuch more success because of
that and the way that I'mchoosing to live today.
So that's what I would want toprobably utilize that to inspire
other people.
And what a great title, HigherVibration.
So that's a book that I wouldwalk across the street to go by.
(38:35):
So that sounds awesome.
Lindsay, how about you?
This is how you're sitting on myscreen.
So I'm just going down.
Lindsey (38:41):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
What a great question.
I feel like I've said this onthe podcast before and I've had
conversations with these ladiesthat I feel In my forties now,
and of course being alcoholfree, it's like right now that
I'm just starting to really knowwho I am because I remember when
(39:04):
I was just, I don't know,developing as a person, I was
really shy.
And I think that's part of thereason why I used alcohol.
I feel like.
It helped me come out of myshell, gave me confidence, but
it was all Really fake and itwasn't real and I think
something about just confidentand investing in yourself, with
(39:28):
the things that you feed yourbody and your mind.
It's about the people that yousurround yourself with because
we've all heard this or theaverage of the five people that
you're the closest to or thatyou hang out with.
So just be really mindful.
Of who those people are and whatyou're putting in your brain and
in your body and not beingafraid to speak up, even, like
(39:50):
something as silly as being onan airplane and you're in the
middle seat, but you have to usethe bathroom.
And I would always be so afraidto say something to the person
sitting beside me.
Like I have to get out to, toget up, but it's I think that's
why I used alcohol too.
Because it's I was shy, but alsofelt like I couldn't speak up
even just like little thingslike that.
(40:12):
So I think my book would besomething of a self exploration
discovering who you are, how tobuild confidence.
And for me, it's keeping thepromises to myself and showing
up for myself and those littlethings stack.
Yeah, just how to, speak up, notstay quiet.
And not feeling bad about iteither.
I don't know if any of thatmakes sense.
Bryan (40:33):
Sure.
Now that's a, how powerful,right?
And, and I love, part of beingan author is, I'll share a
little after here in a secondafter we're done coming up with
the title, is a reallyfascinating, like you have a
very fascinating relationshipwith the title and the cover of
your book, and like your booksounds like a title would be
like little things matter.
(40:55):
Or excuse me, I have to pee.
Oh, dude, that's way better.
That's that's the type, that'sawesome.
But little things do matter,right?
I feel like little thingsmatter.
And, this is why, I don't knowif you've read Matthew Perry's
book.
I just cannot stop talking aboutthat book.
I listened to him speak it onaudible and it was insane, but I
(41:18):
feel like something so small,like feeling abandoned by his
mom when he was, younger.
I'm like, damn, these littlethings like that do matter.
And they really shape us.
Yeah, it's important messaging.
Yeah, no, your title was wayactually way better.
That was awesome.
(41:39):
Kelly, what about you?
Oh, title, I don't know.
What you said about thecuriosity stopping really,
speaks to me.
I started drinking either 12 or13 and abused alcohol until I
was 43.
So 30 years of thinking I neededit to be me.
Sure.
And so for the last six years, Ihave been writing writing,
(42:01):
writing every day.
And I just recently moved andI've got this box full of
journals.
So Maybe that'll be a book, whoknows, but it's it's been a
like, like a self discovery thatturned into a really deep
spiritual journey and being ofservice to others and just all
about love, loving ourselves sowe can love others.
(42:24):
Same thing.
I would go out of my way for abook like that, right?
We need, that's the type ofstuff that, the physiology is
survival, so we migrate to thenegative so much quicker.
So setting the intention andfinding really trying to lock
into the vibration of thepositive takes a lot of work
because you're circumventingwhat's naturally, as a human
(42:46):
being, we're survivalists.
And that's everything the wiringis survival.
Yeah that's fantastic.
Actually, just to switch gearshere.
One of my acknowledgements Iactually talk a little bit about
again, another tragedy thatlosing Matthew Perry was.
Because it happened right as Iwas doing the final edit, know
that he died.
(43:07):
And he was doing such goodthings.
And yeah, he was, he just wasreally trying to, use the
resources that he had in hisjourney To try and not make it
as so bad for other people.
Which is right.
I know what you do.
You got to give it away to keepit is one of my most favorite
sayings that I'll ever going tohear.
And I really remember that atall.
(43:27):
It's part of the mantra.
And I'm not a natural writer.
I think I probably skipped thatclass or I wasn't paying
attention.
And so I have to do a lot ofwork.
And I've evolved as a writeractually, but.
It's not like a natural Englishmajor type fluidity.
I was probably, oh my gosh,probably four years sober.
(43:51):
I'm a total abstinence guy.
I can't do the harm reductionroute.
It's just not me, and I don'tsay any pathway for anybody
because that's up to theindividual, but for me, it's.
I can't do it period.
And so I was about four yearssober and I'm like, I think, I'd
really like to write a book.
I talked about it for a coupleof years with a couple of my
(44:13):
business partners and kicked itaround and I'm like, okay, I'm
going to, I'm just going towrite.
I'm going to read a little biton how to do it.
And then I'm just going to startwriting.
And I'm, and my first book was acollection of 99 stories.
I'm like, And I really struggledto write, like it was something
that I was really frustrated.
I happened to read a book by anauthor named Steven Pressfield,
(44:36):
if you're familiar.
He wrote the War of Art.
And turning pro and he stitchedscreen plays like the legend of
bagger Vance.
Was something that he had wrote.
And so he's a pretty prolific,author.
And I read his book and I'mlike, okay, that's how I want to
write my book.
So I found a writing style thatactually made sense to my mind.
(44:59):
Cause I tend to be a bit of a,an academic, like I'm going to
go find somebody who's did itand I'm going to read how they
did it.
And I'm going to see if I can doit the way you're supposed to.
And I just was so frustratedwhen I read his book.
I'm like, Oh, that's totally theway that I think, I'm going to
write like a talk, which is alittle bit abstract.
And I didn't send these weird,ongoing sentences and it's hard
(45:21):
to read at times and which is aquote from my wife, by the way.
And so I'm like, okay, I kind ofhit a way to write a book.
Then I reached out to a coupleof my friends.
I'm like, Hey, can you justwrite, give me 600 words.
And I want to put you in as oneof the stories.
So I just wrote a collection ofthese stories about going
through recovery.
But I wrote it in a very, notexactly saying recovery way,
(45:45):
right?
I wasn't completely coming.
I wasn't so overtly saying it.
So I broached just life and somethings.
And so that was the first one in2015.
Four years later, I publishedthe next one was very overt.
It was called sober is better.
My note to self and it's allpart of a note to self series,
right?
It's about self awareness.
It's about self exploration.
(46:06):
It's about understanding selfabandonment, which is one of my
new terms I recently learned.
So the second one was like zeroto 18 years, right?
There was that phase of life andthen some other commentary and
all right, past that.
And so that second one I trieddifferent writing styles and.
And that was a kind of going tothe next level about
(46:26):
understanding writing and beingan author and, then I got to
this last one.
The last one was reallyinteresting.
It took me a lot longer to writeit.
But the last one, which iscalled, fuck my demons
redefining normal.
I went super edgy on the title.
I had two titles and that one,one out.
And I really talk about angelsand demons, just, symbolically
(46:49):
throughout it and the journey tofind spirit, cause I, I didn't
really understand that.
I wasn't opposed to it growingup.
I didn't have anybody having abad experience, but I didn't
grow up religious.
So I really didn't have any badfeelings about it.
And I'm like, I hope there's ahigher power.
I hope there's a God because I'mscrewed if there's not.
And somebody has got to bewatching out for me.
(47:10):
So I always thought thatprivately.
This has been an incrediblejourney, but this one kind of
goes from 18 to today.
And it's the last series and Iwasn't going to write it because
I thought I didn't have anythingmore to say.
And then I finally, the last 4years in the world has been
unfortunately very interestingand complicated and tragic and
(47:31):
inspiring in some regards.
So I'm like, okay, maybe I dohave a little more to say.
And I wanted to say it and sothat was really where we came
down to the writing this bookand kind of getting it out into
the world and I'm currentlyworking on a couple other books
now one fiction, which I'venever written.
It's all nonfiction so I'mwriting a nonfiction one, and
I'm working on my first fictionone.
(47:52):
Which is really actually a lotof fun because I don't have any
deadlines it's really just inconcept and I'm taking a little
bit of a break because I pushedto get this one done and get it
out and I'm just really busy.
Life gets too busy.
I know it and I start feelingit.
So I've got to be a little moreintentional on my time.
But it's super fun.
(48:12):
I love writing.
It's become really cathartic.
Absolutely.
I'm trying to think aboutwriting very differently.
And I have in the past becauseI'm a binge writer.
I write like I used to drink.
So I'll go, I'll walk into aroom and I'll write for 12 hours
straight.
Once I get in the zone and thenI'm like, Oh my God, I can't
(48:33):
think about writing for weeksbecause I've got this writing
hangover.
So I'm trying to change thatbehavior.
So I'm trying to write moreconsistently just a little bit
every day to reform thosehabits.
And those behaviors intosomething that's more healthy
because I've just been readingabout some of some different
ability to change how you writeand so that it's more an even
(48:55):
stream versus like these bingewriting episodes, because it
feels a bit manic.
And so I'm just trying to changethat up a little bit.
Yeah, so that's the writing.
And I have one other book, butit's about workforce capital and
data and it's boring.
And.
I don't ever talk about itbecause I don't, I got paid to
write it and it's not exciting,nothing at all.
I've never read it.
(49:15):
I've never went back and readit, but it's, it's just there.
So yeah.
Tracey (49:20):
That's awesome, Bryan.
Tell people where they couldfind your books and where they
can find out more about you.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Thank you very much.
And again, thank you so much forthe conversation, having me on.
You do incredibly good.
Storytelling and the way you dothings with your podcast is
fantastic.
So thank you for putting thatinto the world.
First of all they can go to mywebsite.
(49:42):
My author website is justbryanwempen.
com.
I think there's only two of usin the universe, so it's pretty
easy to find.
And then, I'm on Barnes andNoble and Amazon and, all the
different places.
And my publisher for the firsttwo books was Inheritance Press
and they really got me going.
So find it through there.
And then for this third book, Iactually started a publishing
(50:04):
company that I went through thelearning, the publishing
process, why it's part of thereason it took longer.
And so I've started a publishingcompany called Red Yarrow Books,
and I was able to my, this bookthrough my own publishing
company.
And so That's one of the thingsI'm going to do in 2025 is look
for more authors as you thinkabout writing your book.
(50:24):
Very cool.
We know where to go.
Even if it's to ask what do youthink or whatever.
But, so yeah, so I'm justexcited to dig into that.
But yeah, so bryanwempen.
com, you can find pretty muchanything.
Or our friends from Google, youcan definitely find.
Pretty much find me everywherethere.
We'll put your website in ourshow notes for the podcast here,
(50:46):
Bryan so people can find you.
Are you on social media at all?
I am.
I've got a fairly large I'vebeen on Twitter for a long time.
So I've got a fairly large groupthere.
And I do on LinkedIn a lot.
I'm not on Facebook.
I'm on Instagram because I thinkit's interesting and it lets me
connect with some interestingpeople.
(51:07):
And I love getting lost inInstagram for a little bit.
I think it's fascinating.
And I follow a lot of musicthere and some comedians and a
lot of, My wife's MexicanAmerican, so I follow a lot of
stuff from Mexico, culturallyand different around the world.
But yeah, other than that, it'smainly Twitter and linkedIn, and
it's all Bryan Wempen.
I've stuck to that specifically.
(51:28):
So I haven't got super creativeoutside of that.
I just wanted to ask you onelast question because there was
a quote in your bio there that.
I thought was interesting and Iliked it so I wanted to know
what it really means to you.
You had, I am interested inwhole person healing and
expanding life adventures, notjust sobriety.
Bryan (51:51):
Yeah.
That's always good to highlightbecause I love, and I'm very
respectful of people that theirsober community and their
recovery community is reallywhat they've built their life
around.
It feels good.
That's a great group of peopleto be around.
And that's exactly what theywant.
And I respect that.
(52:11):
Absolutely.
I want my life to be verymultifaceted and I know that my
recovery is absolutely thenumber one thing that I start my
day and end my day with, right?
That's the discipline andstructure I put in place to ask
for help, something greater thanmyself help me be a good person
(52:32):
through the day.
And at very least, I meditate,And at the end of the day, I try
and remember to, just thank youfor getting me through the day
and letting me do it, inrecovery and sober, right?
And thank, the great mystery assome of my native friends call
it.
I thank them for putting thepeople in my life that I have in
(52:53):
my life today and theopportunities I have to actually
be of service.
and be a positive person in myown life, first of all and other
people's life and just be, tryand help.
So that's what that means I wantmy life to be very full and I
want it to be about culture andI don't want to avoid things
(53:14):
because there's alcohol or, Idon't tend to stray into where
there's hardcore narcotics beingused.
I'm not.
open minded yet, but I try andstay out of it because it's
illegal first of all but I tendto, go to places, and alcohol is
all right for a lot of people.
Like it's fine.
Like they're good.
(53:34):
They can drink their half aglass of wine or they can have a
couple sips of, a high ball andthey're good and it doesn't
matter, but it matters to me.
So I have to just be like, okay.
I'm good with it, right?
So that's what that means.
That's the long answer to thequestion.
But I do have one more thing Iwant to go back on.
I think lots of peopleapproached me about their
concern of my behavior anddrinking over the years.
(53:58):
And I absolutely don't rememberit.
And I didn't choose to hear it.
I didn't have a capacity to hearwhat they were asking about.
And I think that probablyhappened.
And I'm really thankful theytried.
I'm very confident that peopletried because I've had a lot of
good people in my life that, Ijust wasn't able to maintain
relationships with, and I can'tbelieve they all were, I'm not
(54:20):
that good, that I could hide itthat well.
I just think I didn't rememberor I blocked it out and just
didn't pay attention.
So I just wanted to go back tothat.
Tracey (54:29):
No, that's great.
Thank you so much, Bryan.
It's been such a pleasure.
Thanks for spending time withus.
It's been such a greatconversation and we've really
enjoyed it.
And we'll make sure that weshare all your info out there
we'll look forward to seeingyour next book.
That should be interesting.
So good for you.
Good luck with that one.
And you can find us on socialmedia at LAF Life Podcast on
(54:55):
Instagram, LAF Life on Facebook.
We have our Facebook community,and we have our website,
laflifepodcast.
com.
Until next time, you know whatto do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (55:09):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
on social media and tell yourfriends.
We love getting your feedbackand ideas of what you'd like to
hear on upcoming episodes of theLAF life podcast.
If you yourself are livingalcohol free and want to share
your story here, please reachout.
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