May 20, 2024 • 43 mins
We walk the talk with guest Lindsay Sutherland Boal founder of She Walks Canada and The Uncovery App. An incredibly insightful conversation where we explored how women are showing up in all areas of life, the definition of problematic drinking, the pitfalls of trying to moderate, and so much more. Determined to create solutions she struggled to find, in 2021 a year after giving up alcohol, Lindsay launched She Walks Canada. She Walks Canada is an online platform that offers connection and coaching to likeminded women on a path to alcohol free living. After overachieving her goal of women walking the globe together, Lindsay pondered what's next? Taking her mission to the next level she developed The Uncovery App. Just released in the spring, this is the first women centric empowerment app through the lens of alcohol free living.
We're so excited about the quest Lindsay's on to help woman discover the bright side of life. We can't wait to see what's to come next!
Follow Lindsay on Insta: https://www.instagram.com/shewalkscanada
or https://www.instagram.com/theuncoveryapp/
Find a walk in your city or become a walk ambassador :
www.shewalkscanada.com
To unlock a limited lifetime subscription offer to the Uncovery App visit:
www.theuncoveryapp.com
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Lindsey: https://www.instagram.com/hariklindsey/
**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelly (00:02):
Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsey Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Tracey (00:41):
Hello, everyone, welcome back to the LAF life podcast.
This is season 3 we have anamazing guest with us tonight.
We are beyond excited to haveLindsay Sutherland Boal founder
of She Walks Canada, and afellow Canadian, which we
absolutely love as well.
Lindsay (00:58):
Yay!
Tracey (00:59):
Yes, welcome
Lindsay (01:01):
Lindsay! Hi!
Tracey (01:03):
Yeah, we're so excited to have you.
We have been following yourcontent for some time, and we
might even be super fans.
Lindsay (01:13):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Tracey (01:14):
Actually, we just really love that you're on this mission
with us and how you're trulyempowering women that are
questioning the relationshipwith alcohol.
And I was saying to the girls,actually, before you came on
with us, that to me, you're aperfect example.
Whenever I watch your content ofwhat this really looks like,
because you're very well puttogether.
(01:35):
You're well spoken.
You're intelligent.
You're successful.
You're beautiful.
And that's really the type ofperson that this is affecting
these days, not what we have inour mind of that guy on the
corner, with the paper bag.
It's really affecting women likeus out there, and you are
showing women that this is whatit looks like, that it's not
(01:57):
that stigma that has been aroundfor years, we're the ones
getting really impacted andinfluenced by all the media
these days.
Lindsay (02:04):
Yes.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up and what a great way to
start.
And it's so funny the amount ofpeople who say, you don't look
like an alcoholic, it's all thetime.
There's so many parts to thatone sentence, right?
It's number one, can we just doaway with the word alcoholic?
It's not, it's, thank you.
It's not even a clinical term,but it's a term that we are so
(02:25):
used to hearing.
We believe it is truth.
We have got to undo thenarrative and the conditioning
we have around that word becauseit is not a clinical term, it is
a term of opinion that wasreally created, what, 85 years
ago in a program that is veryeffective and that's great, no
shade about that.
(02:45):
But that doesn't mean thatterminology needs to stick with
us now.
This whole thing that we'retalking about, this overcoming
over drinking and this drinkingproblem that as you say, so many
women that are in this grayarea, problematic drinking, we
are showing up in our lives inso many compelling ways as
career women, as mothers, ascaring for our elderly parents,
(03:10):
as caring for other children, asbeing the super aunt, all of
these different ways that weshow up in our lives.
But the one way we're notshowing up.
Is in capacity for ourselves andhow we deal with that is by
drinking every night.
And so this is not a cohort ofwomen who do not know how to
show up.
So let's have a discussion aboutthat.
(03:30):
And how do we get to these womenthat are capable, educated,
smart, compelling, successfulwomen.
Speak their language andovercome this together.
Tracey (03:40):
Absolutely.
We were just saying in our lastepisode how having a drinking
problem is a form of selfabandonment.
And how do we talk peoplethrough not doing that,
Lindsay (03:51):
yes.
And it was so funny.
I had a conversation with aclient today about exactly this.
Part of the challenge that weface.
is what becomes our superpoweronce we learn to live alcohol
free, is that when we'redrinking every night, we
disconnect from ourselves, asyou've just said, but in that
disconnection, we also lose ourlanguage and we lose the ability
(04:14):
to be able to say in completesentences that effectively
reflect how we feel.
We lose that ability to be ableto describe and talk about our
experience.
So as we're navigating throughthat.
When we're talking about it, wehave no idea about what it means
to abandon ourselves.
That's not language thatsomebody who is in the early
stage or necessarily sobercurious even understand.
(04:36):
And when I was first launchingShe Walks Canada, geez, there
were so many opportunities forgrowth in that.
I had to learn that I had toshift the language and the
narrative because while what Iwas saying was accurate, it
wasn't a language that this 80%group of women that I was trying
to connect with would understand
Tracey (04:54):
Right, so tell our listeners, cause I know they'd
love to know, and we'd like tolearn a little more about the
background of your story.
What was your relationship withalcohol before you realized
maybe it wasn't a healthy one orgoing down the path that you had
hoped?
Lindsay (05:11):
Well, from the very early stages, I had a great
childhood.
It's not like I had some,traumatic situation happen.
I didn't.
And much like what you alreadytalked about as well but we're
not a caricature.
People who fit into this mold,we are not the caricature of the
dude on the street with thepaper bag.
That's just not who we are.
And while certainly some of usdid have traumatic experiences
(05:33):
happen in our lives, full stop,Not every one of us did.
Not every one of us has a rockbottom.
I say we don't need to hit rockbottom, rock enough will do.
We don't need to hit thebenchmark.
For me, my drinking startedreally problematically when I
was in university.
And, I was away from home.
I was, doing my own thing.
(05:53):
I was in charge of my own life,my own schedule, my own studies.
And I loved what I was studyingI could be social and fit in
because I didn't really fit inwhen I was in high school.
I was just never that girl.
I'm platyphonian.
It's not really a hot thing todo, right?
So I was a total bank geek, likelegit, and it wasn't pretty,
right?
(06:13):
So when I got to university, Ifound my people.
I studied because I was studyingthe performing arts.
So I felt like there was a partof a community there and that's
just what we did, on theweekends.
I spent a long time, I was inuniversity for 12 years.
So I had a lot of time tonurture that extracurricular
activity, and what ended uphappening for me is that when I
(06:34):
went into my career as an operasinger I certainly experienced.
Pretty good successes there.
And I never screwed up mysinging career, but I screwed up
the parties in between.
So I ended up losing.
My opera career because of mydrinking and so my yeah so my
drinking started in the 20s andI knew it was problematic.
(06:57):
I remember the day I lost myoperatic career.
It was April 1st, 2013 And Ididn't stop drinking Until
January 24th, 2020.
Wow.
So what was interesting aboutthat, which as I mentioned
before, what becomes ashortcoming in our drinking days
becomes a huge asset to us.
Once we learn how to harnessthat.
(07:18):
I had to become a careerchameleon in order to make a
living.
So I lost my operatic career andI came back to Canada and I
thought, okay, now what I'mgonna do?
So I went into television andfilm.
And so I started doing that fora bit, and then ended up working
in China.
And then, I had to careerchameleon in order to stay
employable.
Tracey (07:36):
So when you are talking about problematic drinking,
Lindsay when you were inuniversity, it's really common
to binge drink in university.
That's the norm, which is sad.
And that is something that we'dalso like to see change.
It not be that right of passagealmost, right?
But problematic drinking, was itprimarily on the weekends to
(08:00):
start?
And did you notice right awaythat you had a problem with you
couldn't just have one type ofthing, we all say that we knew
we weren't the type of drinkersthat could just have one or two
really ever.
Lindsay (08:11):
So I don't think that was me because actually I worked
at a winery It was 2000s, early2000s.
I worked at a winery and Ididn't drink.
Oh, okay.
But then I remember in my secondmarriage, I said to my then
husband that, And this wasprobably around 2008, I can't
remember, but it was around2008.
That's when I said to myself outloud, said to my brain out loud
(08:33):
for the first time that I can'tstop at one.
I can't stop when I say I wantto stop.
And I remember telling him that,and I remember his response
maybe you should get some helpfor that.
And my help was to go to theliquor store and get another
bottle.
And I never talked to him aboutit again.
Lindsey (08:49):
Totally relate to that.
I feel like I never was able tohave just one drink and more
often than not, I always drankmore than I intended to drink.
Lindsay (09:00):
Oh yeah.
And that's one of the markers ofproblematic drinking.
Lindsey (09:03):
And
Lindsay (09:03):
I'm so glad that you brought that up because
problematic drinking isn't justsomebody who drinks every night.
Exactly.
Isn't just somebody who bingedrinks.
It isn't just somebody who has adrink every night.
Problematic drinking presents inso many different ways in so
many different people.
And the bottom line it comesdown to is, first of all, are
(09:25):
you able to do what you sayyou're going to do?
Lindsey (09:27):
Bingo.
Lindsay (09:27):
Are you able to do what you say you're going to do?
Is your drinking negativelyimpacting your life in any way?
Is your drinking impacting thepeople around you in any way?
And if any of those questionsare somewhat borderline, this is
a conversation you need to behaving.
Lindsey (09:47):
I think you have to face that truth because I know
for me, I was holding on to wineand I was a weekend drinker, a
binge drinker on the weekend.
And I would say, I'm only goingto have two glasses of wine
tonight.
Nevermind.
I drank the whole bottle everytime and often opened a second
one.
But I was holding onto it,trying to look for other
(10:08):
avenues.
Like it's not the wine that'sthe problem, right?
There's got to be something elsehere.
But I was making excuses tojustify keeping it in my life
because I couldn't picture notdrinking wine.
I was like, what is my lifegoing to be like?
And does that mean then that I'man alcoholic?
(10:28):
Oh, my God.
I don't even want to say thatword out loud.
That was so scary to me.
But that just hits like when yousay, are you able to do what you
say you're going to do?
So if I say to myself, I'm onlygoing to have two glasses of
wine and I have six and that washappening a lot.
You have to face that.
It's enough with the excuses.
You've got to really think I'mnot the person that I want to
(10:49):
be.
I'm not true to my word.
I'm breaking promises to myself.
It's, affecting therelationships around me.
I'm cranky and irritable atwork.
My performance at work isn'tdoing well.
Society, normalizes alcohol somuch that, We think we're the
problem and we're not.
Alcohol is an addictivesubstance.
Alcohol is poison, it's doingwhat it's supposed to do when
(11:10):
you consume it.
But I don't think necessarilythat it's us that's the problem.
It's alcohol that's the problem.
Lindsay (11:17):
It is, but we have to be the solution.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, like it's that is that oldadage, we can't control what
other people do, but we cancontrol how we respond.
It seems like it's just in thelast, I don't know, to me, it
seems as though it's been in thelast two years that there's been
so much in the news about noamount of alcohol is safe.
(11:38):
Alcohol is actually a poison.
Alcohol contributes to 13varieties of, life diminishing
illnesses it like.
All the things.
And then with the CCSA coming upwith their new guidelines
saying, let's attempt not to dotoo much, all, and they're,
trying to promote moderation andthings like that.
And why moderate?
Yeah.
Why?
And so this is what gets me is.
(11:58):
A lot of women say, can you helpme to moderate?
And so the thing is, first ofall, if people are saying, can
you help me to moderate, that isa marker that you have a
problematic relationship, justto call it what it is.
And so my response to that is,okay, so why do you want to
moderate?
And they say because exactlywhat you just said, Lindsay,
okay I want to drink too, but Iended up drinking six.
So how do I learn to moderate?
(12:19):
And I said, okay, so is yourdrinking having a negative
impact on your life?
So we have that conversation.
And then they say, yes.
And do the exact same thingsthat you say, let's say I'm not
performing at work.
I'm irritable.
I'm all the things.
And so I said, okay, so is itpossible that in some way
alcohol is blowing up your lifea little bit?
And they said, okay yeah that'strue.
That's true.
Okay.
So how many nights a week?
Are you doing that?
What percentage of the time areyou not able to do what you say
(12:42):
you're going to do?
Oh, I don't know.
80%.
Okay, so let me get thisstraight.
So you want to help me to teachyou not to blow up your life 80
percent of the time.
Why don't we just teach you tonot blow up your life 100
percent of the time?
Lindsey (12:54):
Oh, I love that.
You're worth that, right?
Yes.
I think, too, it's almost like aself love, self confidence
struggle we're self sabotagingourselves and we keep doing it
over and over and over again.
Lindsay (13:07):
See, this is the thing, though.
The woman who is drinking, orthe woman, who is sober curious,
or the woman who is in the veryearly stages of not drinking,
she has no idea that this isself sabotage.
She has no idea.
What she knows is that alcoholis her relief, and she needs to
give her relief up.
Lindsey (13:25):
That is scary.
Kelly (13:26):
Terrifying.
Lindsay (13:27):
It's terrifying.
Who wants to say, okay I'm goingto, for my health, give up any
relief that I have that isproviding me an escape from the
enormity of the ways that I needto show up every day.
What woman is going to sign upfor that?
That is why we collectively haveto change.
And advocate for change aroundthe narrative of what it means
(13:51):
to live alcohol free.
And that's why yes, I'm sober,but I don't talk about it in
that context because sobriety asI'm sure, I'm not telling you
guys anything that you don'tknow, but sober, the term sober
for so many women has such anegative context.
And for those of us who got tothe other side, we understand
that we see that we don't feelthat.
(14:12):
That's just not been ourexperience.
But to me, like when I was firstdoing this thing, I was like I
do not identify as requiringrecovery.
I do not identify with needingto go to a treatment program.
all of the things when in fact,what actually, now that time has
passed and reflection andclarity and all those beautiful
(14:34):
things, I see that.
And I knew this about myself alittle bit at the time that I
absolutely in some way needed tobe rehabilitated in some way.
There was something about how mybrain was thinking about
alcohol.
The narrative that I had set upthat I needed to have it in
order to have a social life, aprofessional life a motherhood
for goodness sakes, to doanything, as a woman, it
(14:57):
required alcohol.
There is a serious undoing thatis now our responsibility to
change.
Tracey (15:04):
I just wanted to speak to the moderation for a second
and also to what's going on inyour mind because if I was to be
honest, I could say to myselfand even stop at say one glass
of wine or two glasses of wine,but my brain always still wanted
more.
Lindsey (15:21):
Exactly.
Tracey (15:22):
So in my mind, it always wanted more.
Even if I could restrain myself.
In speaking to moderation, and Iwanted to make that point in
case anybody else out therefeels that, or thinks that they
have some sort of controlbecause they have restrain.
Those things are different.
And not only that, but.
(15:42):
That in itself now reflectingobviously was a red flag if I
keep thinking about it,regardless of whether I can stop
myself from doing it.
It's a problem.
But who wants to struggle withthat internal struggle all the
time when we're talking aboutpeople wanting to moderate and I
know Kelly can speak to thistoo, because she has often how
(16:03):
hard and draining it is on you.
To attempt moderation.
Kelly (16:08):
That's what broke me in the end.
That's what broke me was theexhaustion from trying to
moderate and the cycle of makingpromises to myself that I could
not keep disappointing myself,waking up with that self
loathing.
It was the attempt to moderatefor so long because of all the
things you guys were justsaying.
(16:28):
Like I could not imagine lifemothering coming down after it.
a busy work day.
I couldn't imagine my lifewithout it.
So anybody who's trying tomoderate, it was so much easier
to just say no more.
Lindsey (16:43):
And moderation I think makes it still okay.
We're still providing the excuseto keep it.
If you think about what alcoholis it's poison.
We don't justify drinking Javexand saying, I get really sick,
but Barf everywhere, but youknow what It's me I have to
learn to just have one.
Like what?
Kelly (17:03):
And it's hard.
Yeah.
But I like what Lindsay wassaying about how but you mean to
tell me you got to take away theone thing that's giving me
relief from this insane lifethat I'm living?
Women are just, they're tryingto do everything.
Lindsay (17:17):
It's so funny.
I had this conversation and Iappreciate this is slightly
different, but in many ways it'sexactly the same.
So hear me out on this.
Cause I know this might hit somebuttons.
It's like having an affair.
Lindsey (17:28):
Ooh.
Explain that.
Lindsay (17:30):
Okay.
So we have now heard that noamount of alcohol is safe.
So let's just parallel that togoing outside of your marriage
and having sex with another manis probably not a safe thing for
your marriage.
We say but if I do that's myescape.
And that's the only escape I getfrom the challenges of being
married with kids and a mortgageand jobs and debt and I can just
(17:54):
escape, every Tuesday night.
Or I can escape, with, a littlegetaway every once in a while
and that feeds me until the nexttime.
How is that acceptable?
Lindsey (18:03):
It isn't.
Lindsay (18:04):
It's not.
Having an affair is not going tofix your marriage.
Having a bottle of wine is notgoing to fix your life.
Lindsey (18:11):
It doesn't.
And it often prolongs thedifficulty.
You still have to face it.
I would argue you have to lookat your actual life.
You have to look at the thingthat you're trying to escape
from.
And if you don't know what thatis, that's where you got to do
that work.
Lindsay (18:24):
So the problem is, if there's a problem in your
marriage, fix your marriage.
Or get out of it.
Lindsey (18:29):
Exactly.
Lindsay (18:30):
Whatever is required, do that.
But having an affair is notgoing to fix the marriage.
It's not going to fix themortgage.
It's not going to fix theparenting.
It's not going to fix that.
Kelly (18:40):
Then where did this, the relief come from?
If I was listening to this whenI was still drinking, then I'd
be like, so then what do youwant me to do?
Lindsay (18:47):
Okay.
So back to the conversationabout drinking.
Kelly (18:48):
Yeah.
Lindsay (18:49):
Okay.
So people ask me this all thetime.
What do I do?
I want to stop drinking.
I know this is a problem.
What do I do?
And this is what I say.
Number one, talk to your GP,call her up and say, doc,
Brenda, whatever her name is,say I'm drinking too much and
I'm going to stop.
Is there anything I need toknow?
That's the conversation.
You don't need to say I amdrinking two bottles of wine and
(19:12):
I'm an alcoholic and my life isgoing to the shitter.
You don't have to say that.
You just have to say.
I'm drinking too much.
Is there anything I need toknow?
And the reason why that'simportant is because there's
just a whole boatload that yourdoctor knows about your medical
history that you do not.
For example, there is someresearch that suggests that
people who have a problematicrelationship with alcohol before
they get pregnant are morelikely to have postpartum
(19:34):
depression and anxiety.
So I have read that.
Let's fact check that, but I'veheard that several times.
And so if you were to go to yourdoctor and say, Hey, this is
what I want to do and thisactually happened to a client of
mine.
What the doctor said is, Oh,Hey, we know that depression has
happened to you in the past.
Come back and see me after amonth and let's just check where
you're at.
That is the conversation.
(19:55):
So there's just a whole bunch ofthings, for example, that your
doctor can help you navigate.
And there's also all kinds ofother things that your doctor
may know about your medicalhistory that you don't.
Because we do not know how ourbodies are going to respond to
not having alcohol in them.
It has nothing to do.
With having to confess all yoursins.
That's not it.
(20:15):
It's what do you not know aboutthat?
Your doctor might that might beable to help you things to look
out for or they might say, okaySo just what are you drinking?
Do you need detox?
What's going on?
Like that conversation mayhappen, too So the number one
thing is talk to your doctor.
It's not a big deal Just tellthem and PS your doctors
probably had this conversationeight times this week already
Okay.
Exactly.
Number one.
Number two, you get into acommunity.
(20:37):
I am obviously pretty fond ofwomen's communities for women,
find a community of like mindedpeople, whatever that is for you
and start talking.
We know that the nemesis ofshame, which we feel when we
have a problematic relationshipwith anything is connection.
So start talking and it's bestif they're strangers.
Lindsey (20:56):
I love that.
Lindsay (20:57):
Yeah.
Because then I was not going totell anybody that I knew that
had a drinking problem.
But I would tell.
A lot of shame andembarrassment, right?
Yeah, for sure.
But I had no problem telling 20strangers, cause they're all
like, Oh yeah, that's me.
We can just say all that stuff.
Get into a community of people.
And the third thing, I'm asucker for this too, move your
body.
Get out and walk.
Those are the three things.
(21:17):
Talk to your doctor, find acommunity, and start talking
with a bunch of strangers, andstart walking.
Kelly (21:22):
That's really good.
Lindsay, what was the thing thatpushed you when you finally made
the decision to stop drinking?
Lindsay (21:29):
Okay, so I think a lot of us have this where, the last
six months was really quiteshady.
So my last six months werereally quite shady in a sense
that my drinking had reallyturned.
And what I noticed in mypersonality when I was drinking
is that I was more aggressive.
And there was one day where Iwas just an absolute five star
jerk.
You can swear.
(21:50):
Asshole to my husband.
Lindsey (21:53):
I love the permission.
Just say it.
Lindsay (21:55):
Thank you.
Thank you.
To my husband.
It was so bad that I didn't knowif that was going to be the end
of our marriage.
And that was August 9th, 2019.
And my response to that was thenegotiation of I have to stop
drinking or this is going to endmy marriage.
I better go to the liquor storeand buy two bottles of wine and
drink them both the next day.
And so it wasn't until January23rd, I had tickets to go and
(22:19):
see the Phantom of the Opera.
And I had some friends that werein the show and I bought the
tickets for me and this friendto go.
And then, but of course, drunkjerk, Lindsay, I didn't bother
to say, Hey friend, are youavailable to go that night?
Are you free?
No, I just went and bought thetickets.
And when friends said to me,Lindsay, I can't go that night.
I got pissed off.
Cause that's what I did.
But I never consulted with thisperson and said, are you free?
(22:42):
I just assumed, and so when theysaid they weren't available to
go, I went with another momfriend, which is a whole other
story that I talked about onInstagram, but I was able with
this other mom friend and I wastwo bottles in before we even
went for dinner before the show.
And so by the time I got to theshow and drinks, I don't
remember, I don't remember anyof it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But when I got up the next day,It was 6 a.
m.
and I had the 3 a.
(23:03):
m.
shame game fully intact.
I went down to the kitchen in myrobe hungover, right?
And just feeling terrible,hating myself, because I hated
myself every morning.
And I went down to the kitchen.
in my loathing.
And I called out all the thingsin my kitchen that I hated.
I hate that tea cup.
I hate that tea towel.
I hate that coffee machine.
And I had been up for fiveminutes, but I was saying all
(23:26):
the things that I hated.
And I was surprised that's whatI was saying.
So a moment passed and then Irealized that all of those
things that I hated in mykitchen, I had put there.
And then a moment passed.
And then I realized that if Icould put them all there, I
could un put them there and Inever drank again.
(23:46):
Oh my god.
Wow.
Just the toxicity, thenegativity, everything that you
were spewing out, realizing thatyou were the one that placed
those items there in yourenvironment.
And then the realization thatyou're the one also that's in
control, and it's a simpleremoval, right?
(24:08):
Change your environment.
And I think when we stopdrinking alcohol, we do this.
With our lives, right?
We might have to change friends.
We might have to unfollow peopleor accounts on social media.
We might need to followdifferent accounts like yours.
We need to surround ourself andmake our environments like
(24:30):
little safe havens where we feelat peace and our energy is calm.
It's a lot of change, but that'sman, just that realization that
it's actually you And a stepfurther, we are the solution.
We're not only in control, we'rethe solution.
Lindsey (24:47):
That's accountability too.
Listen, no one likes to hearthat sometimes.
And I think we make a lot ofexcuses to keep toxic behaviors
and habits in our lives.
But you need to wake up.
This is a you versus you andyou've got to do something you
have to stop the blame game.
My dad did this and I wentthrough that and I get it
(25:08):
there's trauma, people gothrough things, but I think at
the end of the day we've got totake accountability and we have
to action things and we have tofigure out and find solutions.
Lindsay (25:17):
Yeah, I call it radical accountability.
We have to be radicallyaccountable.
And I don't know one person, andmy hand is so high in the air
here, both of those.
I blamed the universe for me notbeing served a life on a gold
platter, and I had no idea I wasdoing it.
(25:39):
So this is why we have got tolearn to speak the language of
women who are currently in it.
Because if I were to say,because I have, and I've failed,
and I had to learn what my Theproblem was, is that I had said
to people who were, this isbefore She Walks Can at the
time, is that you have to stopblaming the people around you or
(26:00):
something like that.
So first of all, I needed to getthe pronouns right.
By me even saying you, they'rebacked up.
They're in a corner.
They're not listening.
And so I had to find a way tonot talk about it from that
perspective.
I had to go into an interview, anational interview, get this and
not say these words, sober,alcohol alcoholic, Recovery.
(26:23):
And there was some other one.
And I needed to talk about thissubject matter without any of
those words.
And then I thought, how the hellam I going to do this?
But what a gift that was.
Lindsey (26:34):
Wow.
Yeah.
I was going to say, it's almostlike we don't need to hit rock
bottom.
We just need to get so sick andtired of ourselves.
Lindsay (26:43):
But even that.
Because I call her Rachel.
When we were building She WalksCanada, we were trying to figure
out who are we talking to.
And we called our avatar, Racheljust to figure out who this
woman is.
Who is she?
Okay, so she's Rachel.
And she's, oh God, we screwedthis up so much.
We're starting from nothing,right?
So this was Rachel.
(27:03):
Rachel.
And we believe that the SheWalks Canada target Audience was
between 35 and 47, and she was aworking, so a professional woman
who's working, doing something.
She was a mother.
She might be divorced.
She might be married.
Who knows?
But she is tapped out.
She's working, she's caring forpeople, maybe her parents too.
(27:26):
She's trying to do all theirextracurricular activities.
And even if she isn't a mom,she's still trying to build a
business or do the side hustleor do whatever the heck it is
she's doing.
And when we launched She WalksCanada, our tagline was She
Walks Canada to support women inrecovery from alcohol use
disorder, total failure becauseRachel didn't think she had a
disorder and she didn't thinkshe needed recovery.
(27:50):
So we completely missed ourtarget audience.
So then we changed it again to,she walks Canada, the movement
to engage in and power, or sorrysomething to.
Live alcohol reduced or alcoholfree lives.
And that lasted about two weeks.
And Julie Kirschke, one of mycoaches, she got on a call with
me and she said, Lindsay, I'mnot buying it.
(28:10):
I said, what are you talkingabout?
She said, nobody on your teammoderates.
Because nobody on your teambelieves we should.
So why are you saying alcoholreduced?
So that lasted two weeks.
I'm like we need people in ourlives to hold up a mirror,
right?
And so then that went by andthen it became empowering sober,
sober, curious women changingtheir relationship with alcohol.
But what we learned is thatRachel is between the ages of 30
(28:35):
and 85.
Wow.
She is a university student.
She is in a gap year.
She is an aunt.
She is trying to start abusiness.
She's trying to get pregnant andcan't.
She's trying to be a part of themummy wine culture, but isn't a
mom yet because her fertilitytreatments aren't working.
She's a young mother.
(28:56):
She is a geriatric mother.
So over 40, having kids for thefirst time, she's a step mom.
She's a single mom.
She is a grandmother and she'san empty nester.
That is the group of women thathave this problem out of
drinking.
Lindsey (29:12):
Wow.
You mentioned something calledShe Walks Canada.
Can you tell our listeners whatthat is?
Lindsay (29:21):
Yeah.
She Walks Canada is a movementthat I created as a reflection
of what worked for me in myjourney.
When I I was getting sober, if Icould use that word.
If I was learning to figure outhow to not drink a bottle of
wine every night I felt veryalone because I couldn't talk to
anybody.
And I did find some women whowere navigating alcohol free
(29:41):
living, but it was in a bit of adifferent sphere.
So they were talking about allkinds of problematic behaviors.
And I found that extremelytriggering.
I needed to talk about booze orgetting over booze.
What helped me get and staysober was finding other women
that were strangers to me that Icould talk to and starting to
walk every day.
I couldn't find that anywhere.
(30:02):
So that is what I've built.
So She Walks Canada was launchedon my second soberversary,
January 24th, 2022.
And we launched.
With the idea that we would bearound for six months and our
goal was to walk but get this Welaunched that was the day we had
(30:23):
to launch because it was on mysoberversary, but this was,
check this context Doug Ford,who was the Premier of Ontario,
had just announced to the publicthat, sorry parents, but your
children won't be returning backto school because of COVID in
January, so you're back tohomeschooling.
Sorry about the bad news.
A week later, there was thetruck convoy that went across
(30:45):
Canada.
And a week later, Russia invadesUkraine.
A week later, she walks Canadalaunches.
What woman in her right mindwould choose that time to stop
drinking?
I said to my executive director,I said, oh my god.
He says what do you want to do?
And I said, we have to launch.
We have to launch.
They may not be ready, but overtime, they'll be ready to
(31:07):
listen.
And so we said, okay, we'regoing to, it was COVID, nobody
could get together.
I'm like, oh, this isinteresting.
Everybody from wherever you arein Canada, log your kilometers
onto our website andcollectively we'll try to walk
the distance of Canada as acomplete unknown person in the
recovery space.
So what happened in the firstseven months is we walked across
(31:28):
Canada three times.
Tracey (31:30):
Wow.
Lindsay (31:30):
And we had our coaching calls going seven days a week
and people were attending.
Women were attending.
Women were logging kilometers.
And after about two weeks ofthis we realized that She Walks
Canada was here to stay.
And so after the walk ended, I'mlike, okay, now what do we do?
So we just went into the supportphase.
So since then we've had twophases, the walking.
And then the 365, 365 days ayear, we have the coaching.
(31:53):
Our second year, when we did thewalk, we were like where are we
going to go from Canada?
What's the bigger distance?
And one of my teammates and Inow had a team of 12 people that
were volunteering for SheWalks.
And they said, okay why don't wejust, walk around the globe?
I said, great, let's do it.
So our distance, still virtual,was let's circumnavigate the
globe, 40, 000 kilometers.
Let's just do that.
But let's do it in half thetime.
(32:13):
We wanted to do 100 days.
Because that's a great benchmarkfor so many of us that are
learning to navigate alcohol fora living.
And so sure enough, wecircumnavigated the globe in 94
days.
Oh my gosh.
Now we had helped over 3000women in their journey.
And I thought, okay, what'snext?
In August of last year I said,there's something that we're not
doing that we're not hitting.
(32:34):
And so I decided to change oursocial media strategy to all
video content.
And at that time we had 3000followers.
And this morning we have 13,000.
That is a huge growth.
So this year when we're walking,we're like, what are we going to
do now?
And we knew that it was time togo to the streets.
It was time to actually walk inperson.
And my goal for this 100 days in2024 was to see 50 walks across
(32:56):
Canada.
That would just blow me out ofthe park.
And what ended up happening is,we're not done yet, but we've
got over 300 walks over 40 walkambassadors across North America
and over 1000 registrants towalk.
Lindsey (33:09):
And
Lindsay (33:09):
those are just the people that are walking, not the
people that have tapped into ourcoaching, not the people that
are tapping into our resources.
So the movement has just gone toa different place, in three
years.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
So she walks Canada is coachingand walking.
That's what we do.
Yeah.
For women.
Tracey (33:26):
I love, love, love that concept so much.
Like the walking, brilliantidea.
I love that idea of peoplewalking, moving, getting fresh
air, talking, connecting, thewhole thing is just amazing.
Unity.
Yeah.
Lindsey (33:43):
Yes.
Lindsay (33:44):
And there's so many metaphors in it, right?
What are you walking towards?
What are you walking away from?
What are you walking through?
Who's walking with you?
Lindsey (33:51):
How can people find a walk that's going on in their
area?
SheWalksCanada.
com to the QBDD Walks page, andit's listed across North
America, and you can registerthere.
And they're all free.
Everything we offer is free.
Oh, my god.
Nice.
And how do you become anambassador, Lindsey, or somebody
(34:11):
that maybe wants to host a walk?
Lindsay (34:14):
Yeah.
We're actually looking for twothings.
It's funny.
We're looking for two thingsright now.
If you want to lead walks youhave to be on the sober journey,
whatever that is.
If it doesn't matter if you'resix months over, it doesn't
matter if you're six yearssober, as long as you're
pursuing the sober lifestyle.
And you can walk on Sundays ateither 10 or 2 in your
community.
That's pretty much all that itrequires.
Then you have to apply to be awalk leader, but you can do that
through the She Walks Canadapage.
(34:35):
And the other thing is thatwe're expanding our coaching
collective.
Cause we have a need for more.
Certified life coaches to be apart of our coaching team.
Tracey (34:42):
Is that something you were certified in first,
Lindsay, were you already a lifecoach prior to getting sober, or
is that something that youexplored after?
Lindsay (34:52):
It was something I explored after.
I always resonated with JayShetty.
I love his stuff.
Oh yeah.
Oh yes.
Yeah, he's great.
And so he's awesome.
Yeah, he is.
And so now I'm a Jay Shettycertified coach.
Tracey (35:02):
Wow,
Lindsey (35:02):
that's amazing.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
That's really good.
Lindsay (35:05):
His team that does his launches is the team that is
doing mine for the app.
Lindsey (35:11):
Oh my goodness.
That's great.
Yeah.
I love this.
I love the fitness and stuff.
The body movement with beingalcohol free, because we've
talked about this on the podcastbefore, but it's often we're
seeing yoga and wine events orgyms celebrating milestones with
alcohol afterwards.
So moving your body, walking ina space where everybody is
(35:35):
alcohol free.
That's just a beautiful thing.
Lindsay (35:39):
I think so too.
Yeah.
Kelly (35:39):
What's the app?
Lindsay (35:40):
Thank you for asking.
Oh, my God.
So the app is it's going to be apretty special place.
It's called the uncovery app.
And it is she walks Canada 2.
0.
It's another platform that I'mbuilding.
What I'm coming to learn aboutmyself is I build what I can't
find.
And with the app.
It is a women's empowerment appthrough the lens of alcohol free
(36:02):
living.
What the uncovery app does thatshe walks doesn't do is it gives
me the opportunity to do whatI'm really good at, which is
coaching and I can deliver waymore.
It's like my Instagram, but likeon steroids, like it's a.
A whole lot more information andI respond to a lot of the
(36:22):
questions that we have thatGoogle can't answer.
So I discussed the relationshipwith alcohol.
In the uncovery app.
There's education.
So there's masterclasses on corevalues and principles on
boundaries radicalaccountability, things like
that.
But then there's this wholecomponent about how do I get
sober?
How do I be sober curious?
How do I be sober?
(36:43):
How do I be alcohol free?
And my philosophy is thatgetting sober is not the end
result.
That is not the ultimatedestination.
We get sober so that we canbuild a life that we don't need
to numb out from.
But we become alcohol freebecause we build a life we don't
need to be sober from.
So the whole app is about how dowe get there?
(37:06):
And what was interesting is Ibeta tested the masterclass and
all that, and that was great.
And I deliver that in smallgroup coachings, which is really
quite beautiful to go throughthe process with strangers, that
are women that, blah, blah,blah.
I beta tested the app to myfriends who I know would tell me
the truth.
And some of them are problemdrinkers and some of them have
never had a problem withalcohol.
(37:27):
And all of them said thisresonates, all of this content
resonates.
So that got me thinking from awellness perspective, from a
woman's wellness perspective, Ibelieve that alcohol free living
is the ultimate level up ahundred percent hands down.
And for those of us who get tothe other side, we have the
privilege and the responsibilityto ask ourselves, What is next
(37:51):
for us, because when we ask whatis next, we are opening the door
for the woman who is waiting towalk through it.
So that's what I'm trying tobuild is yes, we got to get
sober.
Yes, we want to go to alcoholfree living, but we have got to
ask ourselves what is next.
Tracey (38:07):
I love that messaging for anybody knowing that's not.
The end because that's whenpeople can see is yeah, I just
got to get there, but there's somuch more past that.
So I absolutely love that.
That is the messaging and that'swhat you're trying to promote
within there.
And it's funny what you sayabout.
People who are just regulareveryday people that might not
(38:30):
have an issue with therelationship with alcohol.
Cause we get that with thepodcast too.
We have a lot of listeners thatdon't even have a problem with
alcohol.
They just enjoy listeningbecause we talk about a lot of
things that resonate witheverybody just struggles in life
and things to do to promotewellness and to have a better,
(38:50):
healthier, balanced life.
Yeah, I think that's amazing.
And I can understand how thatcould happen with the app as
well.
Yeah, and I'm excited to see it.
Lindsay (39:00):
Thank you.
I truly believe that 20 yearsdown the road, my goal in my
work is that I no longer have ajob.
That is my goal, is because wedon't need to be having this
conversation.
That is my goal, that all of uscollectively do such a good job,
that we are successful in thisnarrative that alcohol should
not.
Be a part of our lives.
(39:22):
And I talked to my daughterabout this too.
I want her and her friends.
She's six.
I want her and her friends tohave a conversation with their
friends saying, can you believethere was that podcast, where
they all had to sit around and Ibelieve that I do how they had
to have friends where they hadto talk about why they shouldn't
be drinking.
And they were all roads.
(39:45):
Yeah.
Lindsey (39:45):
It's like how we're like, can you believe they used
to smoke cigarettes
Kelly (39:48):
Yep I do.
I believe that is what's goingto happen.
Lindsay (39:52):
Yes.
I think so too.
Absolutely.
We just have to do the work.
Yes.
We're doing it.
Yes.
We're doing it.
And it is changing.
It is changing a lot, especiallylike you said, the last two
years.
Yeah.
It's wild.
Kelly (40:06):
A lot.
Yeah.
Lindsay (40:07):
It's wild.
And there's so many differenteven if people don't resonate
with She Walks Canada or don'tresonate with the Uncovery app,
there are so many opportunitiesout there for people to dive
into some group that does, andthat is what is so important,
again, about the work that weare collectively doing is that
there's no shade.
To any program that gets anybodyto the other side of
(40:30):
overdrinking.
Like we're all doing the samework.
We all want the same result.
It doesn't matter if you do itwith them or this or that.
Just start.
Just do it.
Kelly (40:38):
That's right.
That's right.
Tracey (40:40):
We absolutely love what you're doing.
And I want to say, Lindsay, thatyou have some amazing content on
Instagram, where we follow you.
We love what you're putting outthere.
You really articulate yourself.
You really give and educatepeople.
On this, so definitely followLindsay and we're going to have
Lindsay tell you guys where tofind her on every platform that
(41:04):
she's on.
So go ahead and let ourlisteners know where they can
find you, Lindsay,
Lindsay (41:09):
On Instagram is the best place to go.
So it's as she walks Canada dotcom and at the uncovery app,
but.
Here's the thing.
The Uncovery app is launchingthis summer.
If you go to www.
theuncoveryapp.
com, you can get on the waitlist and get first access to it
and also lock in like aridiculous cheap price.
Yeah.
It's 9.
99 for ever.
(41:32):
It's crazy.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Tracey (41:34):
Okay.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been an absolute pleasuremeeting you and you definitely
did not disappoint.
You lived up to all ourexpectations.
Yeah, this is amazingconversation and we're just so
pleased to see other strongwomen in this space.
(41:55):
Like I said on this mission,fighting the good fight for this
and another fellow Canadian.
It's yeah.
Lindsay (42:01):
And we're all going to get there.
We are going to get to the otherside of overdrinking it.
We need to do it together andwe'll get to the other side.
Yeah.
Thanks, Lindsay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Lindsey (42:13):
Everybody, that is a wrap on today's episode.
Don't forget to follow our gueston Instagram at SheWalksCanada,
and also don't forget to followLAF Life Podcast you can find us
online as well.
We've got our website, www.
(42:33):
laflifepodcast.
com.
We will see you back here nextTuesday with a brand new
episode.
So until then, you guys knowwhat to do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (42:44):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
on social media and tell yourfriends.
We love getting your feedbackand ideas of what you'd like to
hear on upcoming episodes of theLAF life podcast.
If you yourself are livingalcohol free and want to share
your story here, please reachout.
Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast
based on living alcohol free anda booze soaked world.
My name is Kelly Evans andtogether with my friends, Tracey
Djordjevic, and Lindsey Harik.
We share uncensored.
Unscripted real conversationsabout what our lives have been
like since we ditched alcoholand how we got here by sharing
(00:24):
our individual stories.
We'll show you that there isn'tjust one way to do this, no
matter where you are on yourjourney from sober, curious to
years in recovery and everyonein between, you are welcome
here, no judgment and a ton ofsupport.
Tracey (00:41):
Hello, everyone, welcome back to the LAF life podcast.
This is season 3 we have anamazing guest with us tonight.
We are beyond excited to haveLindsay Sutherland Boal founder
of She Walks Canada, and afellow Canadian, which we
absolutely love as well.
Lindsay (00:58):
Yay!
Tracey (00:59):
Yes, welcome
Lindsay (01:01):
Lindsay! Hi!
Tracey (01:03):
Yeah, we're so excited to have you.
We have been following yourcontent for some time, and we
might even be super fans.
Lindsay (01:13):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Tracey (01:14):
Actually, we just really love that you're on this mission
with us and how you're trulyempowering women that are
questioning the relationshipwith alcohol.
And I was saying to the girls,actually, before you came on
with us, that to me, you're aperfect example.
Whenever I watch your content ofwhat this really looks like,
because you're very well puttogether.
(01:35):
You're well spoken.
You're intelligent.
You're successful.
You're beautiful.
And that's really the type ofperson that this is affecting
these days, not what we have inour mind of that guy on the
corner, with the paper bag.
It's really affecting women likeus out there, and you are
showing women that this is whatit looks like, that it's not
(01:57):
that stigma that has been aroundfor years, we're the ones
getting really impacted andinfluenced by all the media
these days.
Lindsay (02:04):
Yes.
I'm so glad that you broughtthat up and what a great way to
start.
And it's so funny the amount ofpeople who say, you don't look
like an alcoholic, it's all thetime.
There's so many parts to thatone sentence, right?
It's number one, can we just doaway with the word alcoholic?
It's not, it's, thank you.
It's not even a clinical term,but it's a term that we are so
(02:25):
used to hearing.
We believe it is truth.
We have got to undo thenarrative and the conditioning
we have around that word becauseit is not a clinical term, it is
a term of opinion that wasreally created, what, 85 years
ago in a program that is veryeffective and that's great, no
shade about that.
(02:45):
But that doesn't mean thatterminology needs to stick with
us now.
This whole thing that we'retalking about, this overcoming
over drinking and this drinkingproblem that as you say, so many
women that are in this grayarea, problematic drinking, we
are showing up in our lives inso many compelling ways as
career women, as mothers, ascaring for our elderly parents,
(03:10):
as caring for other children, asbeing the super aunt, all of
these different ways that weshow up in our lives.
But the one way we're notshowing up.
Is in capacity for ourselves andhow we deal with that is by
drinking every night.
And so this is not a cohort ofwomen who do not know how to
show up.
So let's have a discussion aboutthat.
(03:30):
And how do we get to these womenthat are capable, educated,
smart, compelling, successfulwomen.
Speak their language andovercome this together.
Tracey (03:40):
Absolutely.
We were just saying in our lastepisode how having a drinking
problem is a form of selfabandonment.
And how do we talk peoplethrough not doing that,
Lindsay (03:51):
yes.
And it was so funny.
I had a conversation with aclient today about exactly this.
Part of the challenge that weface.
is what becomes our superpoweronce we learn to live alcohol
free, is that when we'redrinking every night, we
disconnect from ourselves, asyou've just said, but in that
disconnection, we also lose ourlanguage and we lose the ability
(04:14):
to be able to say in completesentences that effectively
reflect how we feel.
We lose that ability to be ableto describe and talk about our
experience.
So as we're navigating throughthat.
When we're talking about it, wehave no idea about what it means
to abandon ourselves.
That's not language thatsomebody who is in the early
stage or necessarily sobercurious even understand.
(04:36):
And when I was first launchingShe Walks Canada, geez, there
were so many opportunities forgrowth in that.
I had to learn that I had toshift the language and the
narrative because while what Iwas saying was accurate, it
wasn't a language that this 80%group of women that I was trying
to connect with would understand
Tracey (04:54):
Right, so tell our listeners, cause I know they'd
love to know, and we'd like tolearn a little more about the
background of your story.
What was your relationship withalcohol before you realized
maybe it wasn't a healthy one orgoing down the path that you had
hoped?
Lindsay (05:11):
Well, from the very early stages, I had a great
childhood.
It's not like I had some,traumatic situation happen.
I didn't.
And much like what you alreadytalked about as well but we're
not a caricature.
People who fit into this mold,we are not the caricature of the
dude on the street with thepaper bag.
That's just not who we are.
And while certainly some of usdid have traumatic experiences
(05:33):
happen in our lives, full stop,Not every one of us did.
Not every one of us has a rockbottom.
I say we don't need to hit rockbottom, rock enough will do.
We don't need to hit thebenchmark.
For me, my drinking startedreally problematically when I
was in university.
And, I was away from home.
I was, doing my own thing.
(05:53):
I was in charge of my own life,my own schedule, my own studies.
And I loved what I was studyingI could be social and fit in
because I didn't really fit inwhen I was in high school.
I was just never that girl.
I'm platyphonian.
It's not really a hot thing todo, right?
So I was a total bank geek, likelegit, and it wasn't pretty,
right?
(06:13):
So when I got to university, Ifound my people.
I studied because I was studyingthe performing arts.
So I felt like there was a partof a community there and that's
just what we did, on theweekends.
I spent a long time, I was inuniversity for 12 years.
So I had a lot of time tonurture that extracurricular
activity, and what ended uphappening for me is that when I
(06:34):
went into my career as an operasinger I certainly experienced.
Pretty good successes there.
And I never screwed up mysinging career, but I screwed up
the parties in between.
So I ended up losing.
My opera career because of mydrinking and so my yeah so my
drinking started in the 20s andI knew it was problematic.
(06:57):
I remember the day I lost myoperatic career.
It was April 1st, 2013 And Ididn't stop drinking Until
January 24th, 2020.
Wow.
So what was interesting aboutthat, which as I mentioned
before, what becomes ashortcoming in our drinking days
becomes a huge asset to us.
Once we learn how to harnessthat.
(07:18):
I had to become a careerchameleon in order to make a
living.
So I lost my operatic career andI came back to Canada and I
thought, okay, now what I'mgonna do?
So I went into television andfilm.
And so I started doing that fora bit, and then ended up working
in China.
And then, I had to careerchameleon in order to stay
employable.
Tracey (07:36):
So when you are talking about problematic drinking,
Lindsay when you were inuniversity, it's really common
to binge drink in university.
That's the norm, which is sad.
And that is something that we'dalso like to see change.
It not be that right of passagealmost, right?
But problematic drinking, was itprimarily on the weekends to
(08:00):
start?
And did you notice right awaythat you had a problem with you
couldn't just have one type ofthing, we all say that we knew
we weren't the type of drinkersthat could just have one or two
really ever.
Lindsay (08:11):
So I don't think that was me because actually I worked
at a winery It was 2000s, early2000s.
I worked at a winery and Ididn't drink.
Oh, okay.
But then I remember in my secondmarriage, I said to my then
husband that, And this wasprobably around 2008, I can't
remember, but it was around2008.
That's when I said to myself outloud, said to my brain out loud
(08:33):
for the first time that I can'tstop at one.
I can't stop when I say I wantto stop.
And I remember telling him that,and I remember his response
maybe you should get some helpfor that.
And my help was to go to theliquor store and get another
bottle.
And I never talked to him aboutit again.
Lindsey (08:49):
Totally relate to that.
I feel like I never was able tohave just one drink and more
often than not, I always drankmore than I intended to drink.
Lindsay (09:00):
Oh yeah.
And that's one of the markers ofproblematic drinking.
Lindsey (09:03):
And
Lindsay (09:03):
I'm so glad that you brought that up because
problematic drinking isn't justsomebody who drinks every night.
Exactly.
Isn't just somebody who bingedrinks.
It isn't just somebody who has adrink every night.
Problematic drinking presents inso many different ways in so
many different people.
And the bottom line it comesdown to is, first of all, are
(09:25):
you able to do what you sayyou're going to do?
Lindsey (09:27):
Bingo.
Lindsay (09:27):
Are you able to do what you say you're going to do?
Is your drinking negativelyimpacting your life in any way?
Is your drinking impacting thepeople around you in any way?
And if any of those questionsare somewhat borderline, this is
a conversation you need to behaving.
Lindsey (09:47):
I think you have to face that truth because I know
for me, I was holding on to wineand I was a weekend drinker, a
binge drinker on the weekend.
And I would say, I'm only goingto have two glasses of wine
tonight.
Nevermind.
I drank the whole bottle everytime and often opened a second
one.
But I was holding onto it,trying to look for other
(10:08):
avenues.
Like it's not the wine that'sthe problem, right?
There's got to be something elsehere.
But I was making excuses tojustify keeping it in my life
because I couldn't picture notdrinking wine.
I was like, what is my lifegoing to be like?
And does that mean then that I'man alcoholic?
(10:28):
Oh, my God.
I don't even want to say thatword out loud.
That was so scary to me.
But that just hits like when yousay, are you able to do what you
say you're going to do?
So if I say to myself, I'm onlygoing to have two glasses of
wine and I have six and that washappening a lot.
You have to face that.
It's enough with the excuses.
You've got to really think I'mnot the person that I want to
(10:49):
be.
I'm not true to my word.
I'm breaking promises to myself.
It's, affecting therelationships around me.
I'm cranky and irritable atwork.
My performance at work isn'tdoing well.
Society, normalizes alcohol somuch that, We think we're the
problem and we're not.
Alcohol is an addictivesubstance.
Alcohol is poison, it's doingwhat it's supposed to do when
(11:10):
you consume it.
But I don't think necessarilythat it's us that's the problem.
It's alcohol that's the problem.
Lindsay (11:17):
It is, but we have to be the solution.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, like it's that is that oldadage, we can't control what
other people do, but we cancontrol how we respond.
It seems like it's just in thelast, I don't know, to me, it
seems as though it's been in thelast two years that there's been
so much in the news about noamount of alcohol is safe.
(11:38):
Alcohol is actually a poison.
Alcohol contributes to 13varieties of, life diminishing
illnesses it like.
All the things.
And then with the CCSA coming upwith their new guidelines
saying, let's attempt not to dotoo much, all, and they're,
trying to promote moderation andthings like that.
And why moderate?
Yeah.
Why?
And so this is what gets me is.
(11:58):
A lot of women say, can you helpme to moderate?
And so the thing is, first ofall, if people are saying, can
you help me to moderate, that isa marker that you have a
problematic relationship, justto call it what it is.
And so my response to that is,okay, so why do you want to
moderate?
And they say because exactlywhat you just said, Lindsay,
okay I want to drink too, but Iended up drinking six.
So how do I learn to moderate?
(12:19):
And I said, okay, so is yourdrinking having a negative
impact on your life?
So we have that conversation.
And then they say, yes.
And do the exact same thingsthat you say, let's say I'm not
performing at work.
I'm irritable.
I'm all the things.
And so I said, okay, so is itpossible that in some way
alcohol is blowing up your lifea little bit?
And they said, okay yeah that'strue.
That's true.
Okay.
So how many nights a week?
Are you doing that?
What percentage of the time areyou not able to do what you say
(12:42):
you're going to do?
Oh, I don't know.
80%.
Okay, so let me get thisstraight.
So you want to help me to teachyou not to blow up your life 80
percent of the time.
Why don't we just teach you tonot blow up your life 100
percent of the time?
Lindsey (12:54):
Oh, I love that.
You're worth that, right?
Yes.
I think, too, it's almost like aself love, self confidence
struggle we're self sabotagingourselves and we keep doing it
over and over and over again.
Lindsay (13:07):
See, this is the thing, though.
The woman who is drinking, orthe woman, who is sober curious,
or the woman who is in the veryearly stages of not drinking,
she has no idea that this isself sabotage.
She has no idea.
What she knows is that alcoholis her relief, and she needs to
give her relief up.
Lindsey (13:25):
That is scary.
Kelly (13:26):
Terrifying.
Lindsay (13:27):
It's terrifying.
Who wants to say, okay I'm goingto, for my health, give up any
relief that I have that isproviding me an escape from the
enormity of the ways that I needto show up every day.
What woman is going to sign upfor that?
That is why we collectively haveto change.
And advocate for change aroundthe narrative of what it means
(13:51):
to live alcohol free.
And that's why yes, I'm sober,but I don't talk about it in
that context because sobriety asI'm sure, I'm not telling you
guys anything that you don'tknow, but sober, the term sober
for so many women has such anegative context.
And for those of us who got tothe other side, we understand
that we see that we don't feelthat.
(14:12):
That's just not been ourexperience.
But to me, like when I was firstdoing this thing, I was like I
do not identify as requiringrecovery.
I do not identify with needingto go to a treatment program.
all of the things when in fact,what actually, now that time has
passed and reflection andclarity and all those beautiful
(14:34):
things, I see that.
And I knew this about myself alittle bit at the time that I
absolutely in some way needed tobe rehabilitated in some way.
There was something about how mybrain was thinking about
alcohol.
The narrative that I had set upthat I needed to have it in
order to have a social life, aprofessional life a motherhood
for goodness sakes, to doanything, as a woman, it
(14:57):
required alcohol.
There is a serious undoing thatis now our responsibility to
change.
Tracey (15:04):
I just wanted to speak to the moderation for a second
and also to what's going on inyour mind because if I was to be
honest, I could say to myselfand even stop at say one glass
of wine or two glasses of wine,but my brain always still wanted
more.
Lindsey (15:21):
Exactly.
Tracey (15:22):
So in my mind, it always wanted more.
Even if I could restrain myself.
In speaking to moderation, and Iwanted to make that point in
case anybody else out therefeels that, or thinks that they
have some sort of controlbecause they have restrain.
Those things are different.
And not only that, but.
(15:42):
That in itself now reflectingobviously was a red flag if I
keep thinking about it,regardless of whether I can stop
myself from doing it.
It's a problem.
But who wants to struggle withthat internal struggle all the
time when we're talking aboutpeople wanting to moderate and I
know Kelly can speak to thistoo, because she has often how
(16:03):
hard and draining it is on you.
To attempt moderation.
Kelly (16:08):
That's what broke me in the end.
That's what broke me was theexhaustion from trying to
moderate and the cycle of makingpromises to myself that I could
not keep disappointing myself,waking up with that self
loathing.
It was the attempt to moderatefor so long because of all the
things you guys were justsaying.
(16:28):
Like I could not imagine lifemothering coming down after it.
a busy work day.
I couldn't imagine my lifewithout it.
So anybody who's trying tomoderate, it was so much easier
to just say no more.
Lindsey (16:43):
And moderation I think makes it still okay.
We're still providing the excuseto keep it.
If you think about what alcoholis it's poison.
We don't justify drinking Javexand saying, I get really sick,
but Barf everywhere, but youknow what It's me I have to
learn to just have one.
Like what?
Kelly (17:03):
And it's hard.
Yeah.
But I like what Lindsay wassaying about how but you mean to
tell me you got to take away theone thing that's giving me
relief from this insane lifethat I'm living?
Women are just, they're tryingto do everything.
Lindsay (17:17):
It's so funny.
I had this conversation and Iappreciate this is slightly
different, but in many ways it'sexactly the same.
So hear me out on this.
Cause I know this might hit somebuttons.
It's like having an affair.
Lindsey (17:28):
Ooh.
Explain that.
Lindsay (17:30):
Okay.
So we have now heard that noamount of alcohol is safe.
So let's just parallel that togoing outside of your marriage
and having sex with another manis probably not a safe thing for
your marriage.
We say but if I do that's myescape.
And that's the only escape I getfrom the challenges of being
married with kids and a mortgageand jobs and debt and I can just
(17:54):
escape, every Tuesday night.
Or I can escape, with, a littlegetaway every once in a while
and that feeds me until the nexttime.
How is that acceptable?
Lindsey (18:03):
It isn't.
Lindsay (18:04):
It's not.
Having an affair is not going tofix your marriage.
Having a bottle of wine is notgoing to fix your life.
Lindsey (18:11):
It doesn't.
And it often prolongs thedifficulty.
You still have to face it.
I would argue you have to lookat your actual life.
You have to look at the thingthat you're trying to escape
from.
And if you don't know what thatis, that's where you got to do
that work.
Lindsay (18:24):
So the problem is, if there's a problem in your
marriage, fix your marriage.
Or get out of it.
Lindsey (18:29):
Exactly.
Lindsay (18:30):
Whatever is required, do that.
But having an affair is notgoing to fix the marriage.
It's not going to fix themortgage.
It's not going to fix theparenting.
It's not going to fix that.
Kelly (18:40):
Then where did this, the relief come from?
If I was listening to this whenI was still drinking, then I'd
be like, so then what do youwant me to do?
Lindsay (18:47):
Okay.
So back to the conversationabout drinking.
Kelly (18:48):
Yeah.
Lindsay (18:49):
Okay.
So people ask me this all thetime.
What do I do?
I want to stop drinking.
I know this is a problem.
What do I do?
And this is what I say.
Number one, talk to your GP,call her up and say, doc,
Brenda, whatever her name is,say I'm drinking too much and
I'm going to stop.
Is there anything I need toknow?
That's the conversation.
You don't need to say I amdrinking two bottles of wine and
(19:12):
I'm an alcoholic and my life isgoing to the shitter.
You don't have to say that.
You just have to say.
I'm drinking too much.
Is there anything I need toknow?
And the reason why that'simportant is because there's
just a whole boatload that yourdoctor knows about your medical
history that you do not.
For example, there is someresearch that suggests that
people who have a problematicrelationship with alcohol before
they get pregnant are morelikely to have postpartum
(19:34):
depression and anxiety.
So I have read that.
Let's fact check that, but I'veheard that several times.
And so if you were to go to yourdoctor and say, Hey, this is
what I want to do and thisactually happened to a client of
mine.
What the doctor said is, Oh,Hey, we know that depression has
happened to you in the past.
Come back and see me after amonth and let's just check where
you're at.
That is the conversation.
(19:55):
So there's just a whole bunch ofthings, for example, that your
doctor can help you navigate.
And there's also all kinds ofother things that your doctor
may know about your medicalhistory that you don't.
Because we do not know how ourbodies are going to respond to
not having alcohol in them.
It has nothing to do.
With having to confess all yoursins.
That's not it.
(20:15):
It's what do you not know aboutthat?
Your doctor might that might beable to help you things to look
out for or they might say, okaySo just what are you drinking?
Do you need detox?
What's going on?
Like that conversation mayhappen, too So the number one
thing is talk to your doctor.
It's not a big deal Just tellthem and PS your doctors
probably had this conversationeight times this week already
Okay.
Exactly.
Number one.
Number two, you get into acommunity.
(20:37):
I am obviously pretty fond ofwomen's communities for women,
find a community of like mindedpeople, whatever that is for you
and start talking.
We know that the nemesis ofshame, which we feel when we
have a problematic relationshipwith anything is connection.
So start talking and it's bestif they're strangers.
Lindsey (20:56):
I love that.
Lindsay (20:57):
Yeah.
Because then I was not going totell anybody that I knew that
had a drinking problem.
But I would tell.
A lot of shame andembarrassment, right?
Yeah, for sure.
But I had no problem telling 20strangers, cause they're all
like, Oh yeah, that's me.
We can just say all that stuff.
Get into a community of people.
And the third thing, I'm asucker for this too, move your
body.
Get out and walk.
Those are the three things.
(21:17):
Talk to your doctor, find acommunity, and start talking
with a bunch of strangers, andstart walking.
Kelly (21:22):
That's really good.
Lindsay, what was the thing thatpushed you when you finally made
the decision to stop drinking?
Lindsay (21:29):
Okay, so I think a lot of us have this where, the last
six months was really quiteshady.
So my last six months werereally quite shady in a sense
that my drinking had reallyturned.
And what I noticed in mypersonality when I was drinking
is that I was more aggressive.
And there was one day where Iwas just an absolute five star
jerk.
You can swear.
(21:50):
Asshole to my husband.
Lindsey (21:53):
I love the permission.
Just say it.
Lindsay (21:55):
Thank you.
Thank you.
To my husband.
It was so bad that I didn't knowif that was going to be the end
of our marriage.
And that was August 9th, 2019.
And my response to that was thenegotiation of I have to stop
drinking or this is going to endmy marriage.
I better go to the liquor storeand buy two bottles of wine and
drink them both the next day.
And so it wasn't until January23rd, I had tickets to go and
(22:19):
see the Phantom of the Opera.
And I had some friends that werein the show and I bought the
tickets for me and this friendto go.
And then, but of course, drunkjerk, Lindsay, I didn't bother
to say, Hey friend, are youavailable to go that night?
Are you free?
No, I just went and bought thetickets.
And when friends said to me,Lindsay, I can't go that night.
I got pissed off.
Cause that's what I did.
But I never consulted with thisperson and said, are you free?
(22:42):
I just assumed, and so when theysaid they weren't available to
go, I went with another momfriend, which is a whole other
story that I talked about onInstagram, but I was able with
this other mom friend and I wastwo bottles in before we even
went for dinner before the show.
And so by the time I got to theshow and drinks, I don't
remember, I don't remember anyof it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But when I got up the next day,It was 6 a.
m.
and I had the 3 a.
(23:03):
m.
shame game fully intact.
I went down to the kitchen in myrobe hungover, right?
And just feeling terrible,hating myself, because I hated
myself every morning.
And I went down to the kitchen.
in my loathing.
And I called out all the thingsin my kitchen that I hated.
I hate that tea cup.
I hate that tea towel.
I hate that coffee machine.
And I had been up for fiveminutes, but I was saying all
(23:26):
the things that I hated.
And I was surprised that's whatI was saying.
So a moment passed and then Irealized that all of those
things that I hated in mykitchen, I had put there.
And then a moment passed.
And then I realized that if Icould put them all there, I
could un put them there and Inever drank again.
(23:46):
Oh my god.
Wow.
Just the toxicity, thenegativity, everything that you
were spewing out, realizing thatyou were the one that placed
those items there in yourenvironment.
And then the realization thatyou're the one also that's in
control, and it's a simpleremoval, right?
(24:08):
Change your environment.
And I think when we stopdrinking alcohol, we do this.
With our lives, right?
We might have to change friends.
We might have to unfollow peopleor accounts on social media.
We might need to followdifferent accounts like yours.
We need to surround ourself andmake our environments like
(24:30):
little safe havens where we feelat peace and our energy is calm.
It's a lot of change, but that'sman, just that realization that
it's actually you And a stepfurther, we are the solution.
We're not only in control, we'rethe solution.
Lindsey (24:47):
That's accountability too.
Listen, no one likes to hearthat sometimes.
And I think we make a lot ofexcuses to keep toxic behaviors
and habits in our lives.
But you need to wake up.
This is a you versus you andyou've got to do something you
have to stop the blame game.
My dad did this and I wentthrough that and I get it
(25:08):
there's trauma, people gothrough things, but I think at
the end of the day we've got totake accountability and we have
to action things and we have tofigure out and find solutions.
Lindsay (25:17):
Yeah, I call it radical accountability.
We have to be radicallyaccountable.
And I don't know one person, andmy hand is so high in the air
here, both of those.
I blamed the universe for me notbeing served a life on a gold
platter, and I had no idea I wasdoing it.
(25:39):
So this is why we have got tolearn to speak the language of
women who are currently in it.
Because if I were to say,because I have, and I've failed,
and I had to learn what my Theproblem was, is that I had said
to people who were, this isbefore She Walks Can at the
time, is that you have to stopblaming the people around you or
(26:00):
something like that.
So first of all, I needed to getthe pronouns right.
By me even saying you, they'rebacked up.
They're in a corner.
They're not listening.
And so I had to find a way tonot talk about it from that
perspective.
I had to go into an interview, anational interview, get this and
not say these words, sober,alcohol alcoholic, Recovery.
(26:23):
And there was some other one.
And I needed to talk about thissubject matter without any of
those words.
And then I thought, how the hellam I going to do this?
But what a gift that was.
Lindsey (26:34):
Wow.
Yeah.
I was going to say, it's almostlike we don't need to hit rock
bottom.
We just need to get so sick andtired of ourselves.
Lindsay (26:43):
But even that.
Because I call her Rachel.
When we were building She WalksCanada, we were trying to figure
out who are we talking to.
And we called our avatar, Racheljust to figure out who this
woman is.
Who is she?
Okay, so she's Rachel.
And she's, oh God, we screwedthis up so much.
We're starting from nothing,right?
So this was Rachel.
(27:03):
Rachel.
And we believe that the SheWalks Canada target Audience was
between 35 and 47, and she was aworking, so a professional woman
who's working, doing something.
She was a mother.
She might be divorced.
She might be married.
Who knows?
But she is tapped out.
She's working, she's caring forpeople, maybe her parents too.
(27:26):
She's trying to do all theirextracurricular activities.
And even if she isn't a mom,she's still trying to build a
business or do the side hustleor do whatever the heck it is
she's doing.
And when we launched She WalksCanada, our tagline was She
Walks Canada to support women inrecovery from alcohol use
disorder, total failure becauseRachel didn't think she had a
disorder and she didn't thinkshe needed recovery.
(27:50):
So we completely missed ourtarget audience.
So then we changed it again to,she walks Canada, the movement
to engage in and power, or sorrysomething to.
Live alcohol reduced or alcoholfree lives.
And that lasted about two weeks.
And Julie Kirschke, one of mycoaches, she got on a call with
me and she said, Lindsay, I'mnot buying it.
(28:10):
I said, what are you talkingabout?
She said, nobody on your teammoderates.
Because nobody on your teambelieves we should.
So why are you saying alcoholreduced?
So that lasted two weeks.
I'm like we need people in ourlives to hold up a mirror,
right?
And so then that went by andthen it became empowering sober,
sober, curious women changingtheir relationship with alcohol.
But what we learned is thatRachel is between the ages of 30
(28:35):
and 85.
Wow.
She is a university student.
She is in a gap year.
She is an aunt.
She is trying to start abusiness.
She's trying to get pregnant andcan't.
She's trying to be a part of themummy wine culture, but isn't a
mom yet because her fertilitytreatments aren't working.
She's a young mother.
(28:56):
She is a geriatric mother.
So over 40, having kids for thefirst time, she's a step mom.
She's a single mom.
She is a grandmother and she'san empty nester.
That is the group of women thathave this problem out of
drinking.
Lindsey (29:12):
Wow.
You mentioned something calledShe Walks Canada.
Can you tell our listeners whatthat is?
Lindsay (29:21):
Yeah.
She Walks Canada is a movementthat I created as a reflection
of what worked for me in myjourney.
When I I was getting sober, if Icould use that word.
If I was learning to figure outhow to not drink a bottle of
wine every night I felt veryalone because I couldn't talk to
anybody.
And I did find some women whowere navigating alcohol free
(29:41):
living, but it was in a bit of adifferent sphere.
So they were talking about allkinds of problematic behaviors.
And I found that extremelytriggering.
I needed to talk about booze orgetting over booze.
What helped me get and staysober was finding other women
that were strangers to me that Icould talk to and starting to
walk every day.
I couldn't find that anywhere.
(30:02):
So that is what I've built.
So She Walks Canada was launchedon my second soberversary,
January 24th, 2022.
And we launched.
With the idea that we would bearound for six months and our
goal was to walk but get this Welaunched that was the day we had
(30:23):
to launch because it was on mysoberversary, but this was,
check this context Doug Ford,who was the Premier of Ontario,
had just announced to the publicthat, sorry parents, but your
children won't be returning backto school because of COVID in
January, so you're back tohomeschooling.
Sorry about the bad news.
A week later, there was thetruck convoy that went across
(30:45):
Canada.
And a week later, Russia invadesUkraine.
A week later, she walks Canadalaunches.
What woman in her right mindwould choose that time to stop
drinking?
I said to my executive director,I said, oh my god.
He says what do you want to do?
And I said, we have to launch.
We have to launch.
They may not be ready, but overtime, they'll be ready to
(31:07):
listen.
And so we said, okay, we'regoing to, it was COVID, nobody
could get together.
I'm like, oh, this isinteresting.
Everybody from wherever you arein Canada, log your kilometers
onto our website andcollectively we'll try to walk
the distance of Canada as acomplete unknown person in the
recovery space.
So what happened in the firstseven months is we walked across
(31:28):
Canada three times.
Tracey (31:30):
Wow.
Lindsay (31:30):
And we had our coaching calls going seven days a week
and people were attending.
Women were attending.
Women were logging kilometers.
And after about two weeks ofthis we realized that She Walks
Canada was here to stay.
And so after the walk ended, I'mlike, okay, now what do we do?
So we just went into the supportphase.
So since then we've had twophases, the walking.
And then the 365, 365 days ayear, we have the coaching.
(31:53):
Our second year, when we did thewalk, we were like where are we
going to go from Canada?
What's the bigger distance?
And one of my teammates and Inow had a team of 12 people that
were volunteering for SheWalks.
And they said, okay why don't wejust, walk around the globe?
I said, great, let's do it.
So our distance, still virtual,was let's circumnavigate the
globe, 40, 000 kilometers.
Let's just do that.
But let's do it in half thetime.
(32:13):
We wanted to do 100 days.
Because that's a great benchmarkfor so many of us that are
learning to navigate alcohol fora living.
And so sure enough, wecircumnavigated the globe in 94
days.
Oh my gosh.
Now we had helped over 3000women in their journey.
And I thought, okay, what'snext?
In August of last year I said,there's something that we're not
doing that we're not hitting.
(32:34):
And so I decided to change oursocial media strategy to all
video content.
And at that time we had 3000followers.
And this morning we have 13,000.
That is a huge growth.
So this year when we're walking,we're like, what are we going to
do now?
And we knew that it was time togo to the streets.
It was time to actually walk inperson.
And my goal for this 100 days in2024 was to see 50 walks across
(32:56):
Canada.
That would just blow me out ofthe park.
And what ended up happening is,we're not done yet, but we've
got over 300 walks over 40 walkambassadors across North America
and over 1000 registrants towalk.
Lindsey (33:09):
And
Lindsay (33:09):
those are just the people that are walking, not the
people that have tapped into ourcoaching, not the people that
are tapping into our resources.
So the movement has just gone toa different place, in three
years.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
So she walks Canada is coachingand walking.
That's what we do.
Yeah.
For women.
Tracey (33:26):
I love, love, love that concept so much.
Like the walking, brilliantidea.
I love that idea of peoplewalking, moving, getting fresh
air, talking, connecting, thewhole thing is just amazing.
Unity.
Yeah.
Lindsey (33:43):
Yes.
Lindsay (33:44):
And there's so many metaphors in it, right?
What are you walking towards?
What are you walking away from?
What are you walking through?
Who's walking with you?
Lindsey (33:51):
How can people find a walk that's going on in their
area?
SheWalksCanada.
com to the QBDD Walks page, andit's listed across North
America, and you can registerthere.
And they're all free.
Everything we offer is free.
Oh, my god.
Nice.
And how do you become anambassador, Lindsey, or somebody
(34:11):
that maybe wants to host a walk?
Lindsay (34:14):
Yeah.
We're actually looking for twothings.
It's funny.
We're looking for two thingsright now.
If you want to lead walks youhave to be on the sober journey,
whatever that is.
If it doesn't matter if you'resix months over, it doesn't
matter if you're six yearssober, as long as you're
pursuing the sober lifestyle.
And you can walk on Sundays ateither 10 or 2 in your
community.
That's pretty much all that itrequires.
Then you have to apply to be awalk leader, but you can do that
through the She Walks Canadapage.
(34:35):
And the other thing is thatwe're expanding our coaching
collective.
Cause we have a need for more.
Certified life coaches to be apart of our coaching team.
Tracey (34:42):
Is that something you were certified in first,
Lindsay, were you already a lifecoach prior to getting sober, or
is that something that youexplored after?
Lindsay (34:52):
It was something I explored after.
I always resonated with JayShetty.
I love his stuff.
Oh yeah.
Oh yes.
Yeah, he's great.
And so he's awesome.
Yeah, he is.
And so now I'm a Jay Shettycertified coach.
Tracey (35:02):
Wow,
Lindsey (35:02):
that's amazing.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
That's really good.
Lindsay (35:05):
His team that does his launches is the team that is
doing mine for the app.
Lindsey (35:11):
Oh my goodness.
That's great.
Yeah.
I love this.
I love the fitness and stuff.
The body movement with beingalcohol free, because we've
talked about this on the podcastbefore, but it's often we're
seeing yoga and wine events orgyms celebrating milestones with
alcohol afterwards.
So moving your body, walking ina space where everybody is
(35:35):
alcohol free.
That's just a beautiful thing.
Lindsay (35:39):
I think so too.
Yeah.
Kelly (35:39):
What's the app?
Lindsay (35:40):
Thank you for asking.
Oh, my God.
So the app is it's going to be apretty special place.
It's called the uncovery app.
And it is she walks Canada 2.
0.
It's another platform that I'mbuilding.
What I'm coming to learn aboutmyself is I build what I can't
find.
And with the app.
It is a women's empowerment appthrough the lens of alcohol free
(36:02):
living.
What the uncovery app does thatshe walks doesn't do is it gives
me the opportunity to do whatI'm really good at, which is
coaching and I can deliver waymore.
It's like my Instagram, but likeon steroids, like it's a.
A whole lot more information andI respond to a lot of the
(36:22):
questions that we have thatGoogle can't answer.
So I discussed the relationshipwith alcohol.
In the uncovery app.
There's education.
So there's masterclasses on corevalues and principles on
boundaries radicalaccountability, things like
that.
But then there's this wholecomponent about how do I get
sober?
How do I be sober curious?
How do I be sober?
(36:43):
How do I be alcohol free?
And my philosophy is thatgetting sober is not the end
result.
That is not the ultimatedestination.
We get sober so that we canbuild a life that we don't need
to numb out from.
But we become alcohol freebecause we build a life we don't
need to be sober from.
So the whole app is about how dowe get there?
(37:06):
And what was interesting is Ibeta tested the masterclass and
all that, and that was great.
And I deliver that in smallgroup coachings, which is really
quite beautiful to go throughthe process with strangers, that
are women that, blah, blah,blah.
I beta tested the app to myfriends who I know would tell me
the truth.
And some of them are problemdrinkers and some of them have
never had a problem withalcohol.
(37:27):
And all of them said thisresonates, all of this content
resonates.
So that got me thinking from awellness perspective, from a
woman's wellness perspective, Ibelieve that alcohol free living
is the ultimate level up ahundred percent hands down.
And for those of us who get tothe other side, we have the
privilege and the responsibilityto ask ourselves, What is next
(37:51):
for us, because when we ask whatis next, we are opening the door
for the woman who is waiting towalk through it.
So that's what I'm trying tobuild is yes, we got to get
sober.
Yes, we want to go to alcoholfree living, but we have got to
ask ourselves what is next.
Tracey (38:07):
I love that messaging for anybody knowing that's not.
The end because that's whenpeople can see is yeah, I just
got to get there, but there's somuch more past that.
So I absolutely love that.
That is the messaging and that'swhat you're trying to promote
within there.
And it's funny what you sayabout.
People who are just regulareveryday people that might not
(38:30):
have an issue with therelationship with alcohol.
Cause we get that with thepodcast too.
We have a lot of listeners thatdon't even have a problem with
alcohol.
They just enjoy listeningbecause we talk about a lot of
things that resonate witheverybody just struggles in life
and things to do to promotewellness and to have a better,
(38:50):
healthier, balanced life.
Yeah, I think that's amazing.
And I can understand how thatcould happen with the app as
well.
Yeah, and I'm excited to see it.
Lindsay (39:00):
Thank you.
I truly believe that 20 yearsdown the road, my goal in my
work is that I no longer have ajob.
That is my goal, is because wedon't need to be having this
conversation.
That is my goal, that all of uscollectively do such a good job,
that we are successful in thisnarrative that alcohol should
not.
Be a part of our lives.
(39:22):
And I talked to my daughterabout this too.
I want her and her friends.
She's six.
I want her and her friends tohave a conversation with their
friends saying, can you believethere was that podcast, where
they all had to sit around and Ibelieve that I do how they had
to have friends where they hadto talk about why they shouldn't
be drinking.
And they were all roads.
(39:45):
Yeah.
Lindsey (39:45):
It's like how we're like, can you believe they used
to smoke cigarettes
Kelly (39:48):
Yep I do.
I believe that is what's goingto happen.
Lindsay (39:52):
Yes.
I think so too.
Absolutely.
We just have to do the work.
Yes.
We're doing it.
Yes.
We're doing it.
And it is changing.
It is changing a lot, especiallylike you said, the last two
years.
Yeah.
It's wild.
Kelly (40:06):
A lot.
Yeah.
Lindsay (40:07):
It's wild.
And there's so many differenteven if people don't resonate
with She Walks Canada or don'tresonate with the Uncovery app,
there are so many opportunitiesout there for people to dive
into some group that does, andthat is what is so important,
again, about the work that weare collectively doing is that
there's no shade.
To any program that gets anybodyto the other side of
(40:30):
overdrinking.
Like we're all doing the samework.
We all want the same result.
It doesn't matter if you do itwith them or this or that.
Just start.
Just do it.
Kelly (40:38):
That's right.
That's right.
Tracey (40:40):
We absolutely love what you're doing.
And I want to say, Lindsay, thatyou have some amazing content on
Instagram, where we follow you.
We love what you're putting outthere.
You really articulate yourself.
You really give and educatepeople.
On this, so definitely followLindsay and we're going to have
Lindsay tell you guys where tofind her on every platform that
(41:04):
she's on.
So go ahead and let ourlisteners know where they can
find you, Lindsay,
Lindsay (41:09):
On Instagram is the best place to go.
So it's as she walks Canada dotcom and at the uncovery app,
but.
Here's the thing.
The Uncovery app is launchingthis summer.
If you go to www.
theuncoveryapp.
com, you can get on the waitlist and get first access to it
and also lock in like aridiculous cheap price.
Yeah.
It's 9.
99 for ever.
(41:32):
It's crazy.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Tracey (41:34):
Okay.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been an absolute pleasuremeeting you and you definitely
did not disappoint.
You lived up to all ourexpectations.
Yeah, this is amazingconversation and we're just so
pleased to see other strongwomen in this space.
(41:55):
Like I said on this mission,fighting the good fight for this
and another fellow Canadian.
It's yeah.
Lindsay (42:01):
And we're all going to get there.
We are going to get to the otherside of overdrinking it.
We need to do it together andwe'll get to the other side.
Yeah.
Thanks, Lindsay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Lindsey (42:13):
Everybody, that is a wrap on today's episode.
Don't forget to follow our gueston Instagram at SheWalksCanada,
and also don't forget to followLAF Life Podcast you can find us
online as well.
We've got our website, www.
(42:33):
laflifepodcast.
com.
We will see you back here nextTuesday with a brand new
episode.
So until then, you guys knowwhat to do.
Keep laughing.
Kelly (42:44):
Thank you for listening.
Please give us a five starrating like and subscribe, share
on social media and tell yourfriends.
We love getting your feedbackand ideas of what you'd like to
hear on upcoming episodes of theLAF life podcast.
If you yourself are livingalcohol free and want to share
your story here, please reachout.
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