From Model A Engines to Turbine Power: How the Vescos Revolutionized Land Speed Racing with THE LEGENDARY RICK VESCO

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Landspeed Legends, a podcast talking to
the men, the women, the legendsthat make land speed racing
great.
Discover the stories of theseordinary people whose passion
for land speed racing has madethem legendary.
And now here's your host theBonneville Belle, the High Boy,

(00:23):
honey, the salt princess, alisonVolk-Dean.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Today I have the legendary Rick Vesco with me and
we are going to.
We started talking about thebeginning where it started for
you, it was really with your dad.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah well, the first time we ever went to Bonneville
was in 1953.
I was seven.
Don, of course the oldest, andmy brother, chuck, was with us,
and that was the first.
And my dad started racing outthere in 1949, one of the 49ers.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I mean, and that's a big deal, so explain what the
49ers are.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
It's the first organized group, wally Parks and
Alex Exidious and othersdecided to go to Bonneville
because you could go faster andthat the Europeans had shown up
and they've gone nearly 400.
And anyway, it's the best placeto really go fast and fast

(01:23):
safely.
Yeah, relatively safe, rel fast, safely.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
Relatively safely, relativelysafely, yeah, so that's a pretty
big deal to be part of that49er group.
Do you know how many were thereoriginally?
Like how many people?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
There was about 50, as far as I know.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, close to 50.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
50 competitors Somewhere around there, that's
awesome, and the motorcyclesback then were kind of invited,
but there was only a few people.
Yeah, they were kind ofoutcasts I think.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Today it's a different world, yes, but the
motorcycle and car people arestill.
You know, it's still adifferent world, but at least
it's friendly.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
No, they're all working together and it's
serving the public.
Yeah, Part of saving the salt,putting it together.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
And they, yeah it.
It just you know, motorcyclepeople are motorcycle people,
but you're a motorcycle person,oh yeah, and a car person, you
crossed over.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
We're one of the only families that have been doing
cars and motorcycles for a long,long time.
Oh yeah, Don, the true legend,is the only person to have ever
held the motorcycle land speedrecord and the automotive land
speed record.
That's just the way it is.
It's really unusual.

(02:33):
My goal originally was to getDon holding the car record while
he still held the motorcyclerecord, but then Teague got it
in 2001.
Oh Al that 409.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, alague got it in 2001.
Oh, Al that 409.
No, al, no, I love Al Everybodyloves Al.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
I know Al and Don were one of a kind.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh that's awesome, I know, yeah, they really were.
Don was a unique character.
Yes, he was.
So what did your dad race whenhe first went out there?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, he took out his Lakester, which they called
Streamliners back then, but ithad this same Model, A Ford
four-port, Riley, four-portconversion head on it, Same one
we have today, and we're goingto try to run this next season,
2025, at Bonneville andhopefully we can get it all done

(03:25):
and back together.
The car is ready to go.
I've had the engine in it butwe're doing a lot of cylinder
head work.
So anyway, we're going to takemy dad's original real
streamliner, the 444 car, whichhe put out there in 1957.
And they made him run itexperimental and it was.
Hot Rod Magazine called it thethinnest streamliner because it

(03:48):
had only a 24-inch tread width,where nowadays that's considered
fat.
With the streamliners myturbine car has a 17-inch tread
width in the front and 12 inchesin the back and it's 36 feet
long.
It's kind of crazy but ithandles beautiful.
We've had it sideways at well,Don had it sideways at 437, and

(04:14):
it didn't tip it over.
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, but the first year you went out you said 1953?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
53.
I was seven.
I was out there riding abicycle and stomping beer cans
with my feet.
I know what that's like and younever back.
When you were seven years old,you didn't know you were going
to have the world's fastest racecar.
You always wanted.
You loved the sport.
You loved all the people.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
You loved racing.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
You didn't know what you were going to be doing.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
How does anybody know they're going to be president
of the United States whenthey're seven years old?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Right, you can't dream, but, yeah, yeah, dream,
dream on.
That's right.
And you wouldn't, it would justback.
Then it would have just seemedso impossible, 500 miles an hour
.
You'd just been like, no, Imean.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
well, first off, land speed racing was at about 403
for Donald Campbell, and today Iwould have never, ever thought
that.
Well, back then everybody wassaying, oh, cars can't go any

(05:17):
faster than that with wheeldriven.
They just can't get traction.
And that's why Breedlove builtthe jet car.
That was it.
And that's why Breedlove builtthe jet car.
That was it.
But now the turbine car herewe've gone as fast as the jet
car did originally out therewith Breedlove.
So you know, you just got tokeep plugging away at it and
you'll figure out a way.
But you know, the save the saltissue was what I was really

(05:40):
worried about, and it's still abig problem.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's not fixed.
No, it is not fixed.
It's definitely not fixed.
Hopefully we can work on thatand get it going.
But so in 53, when you went outthere, or even in just between
the years, as you were younggoing out there, what was some
of your like cars that youreally looked at and really
admired?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, usually the streamliners, whoever was going
the fastest, that seemed to bethe most important, and that's
what Don and I you know wealways well, you don't want to
go slow, and that's kind of whywe retired the 444 car.
We're going.
Man, this thing with a Model Aisn't very fast.

(06:21):
So anyway, yeah, you dream on,you want to do something better,
you want to make it safer andof course, the rules change over
the years, so you always haveto modify the vehicles for
different things.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
And it was you and the three brothers, right, yeah,
three brothers.
So you and Don and Chuck.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, chuck's the middle one.
He and I had a motorcycle shopin northern Utah for 30 years
and we had Honda, yamaha, suzukiand Kawasaki.
And when we got up there werebuilt the 444 car and went to
the salt flats with everybodyfrom the Utah club and in 76,

(06:59):
dave Spangler came up.
He was my boss at HookerHeaders.
I worked for him from 70 to 73.
And now he's driven theTurbinator 500 miles an hour.
So he's our hero and legend.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh yeah, I mean, I didn't realize you showed me
this little video of him, ofwhat he did.
I didn't know, I didn't knowall of that about him, which was
really amazing.
He's really impressive.
He's really impressive.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
He's really good.
Nobody can believe If you lookat Dave now.
He's getting older.
But when he was younger, he wasquite the athlete and he
bronxed bulls, motorcycle racing, drag racing, you name it
off-road stuff, and we did allthat together when we were

(07:44):
working with him down in Ontario.
But anyway, it's been quite ahistory and it's been really,
really hard to explain the Vescofamily history.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, we're going to try to explain it so everybody
can know what's going on.
So when did you guys startactually building your—well?
When did your dad pass away?
What year was that?
83.
Okay, so he was still out therefor—.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Oh, he was right there, he knew I was building
the—not turbine car, but theProject 425.
Okay and anyway.
Yeah, I talked to Bruce Crowerabout making a four-wheel drive
and all the racer people werealways involved and you know,
it's like the tire situation.
The Birklins got tires for usto go fast and even on the

(08:30):
motorcycles we're sitting nextto a motorcycle here that
actually beat all the cars Onlymotorcycle to ever win the Hot
Rod Magazine trophy.
Hardly anybody knows that, butthe thing is he did it with.
Don was quite an innovator, buthe did it with stock motorcycle

(08:51):
engines that he modifiedhimself.
Today you can buy any racemotor you want.
In fact, the guys that areholding the land speed record
made their own engines.
They're not even motorcycleengines anymore.
But the tires, for instance,that's always been a headache
for everybody If you're goingreal fast yeah, Well, yeah,
you're right for everybody.

(09:11):
Everybody this motorcycle herehas Goodyears on it.
Goodyear made them for us.
It has a traction patch ofabout one square inch of
traction and it just burned thetires off.
He went 330 to win the hot rodmagazine trophy.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
wow and what year was that?

Speaker 3 (09:30):
that was in uh 1978.
Okay, this the inspectionsticker still in this bike.
By the way, I'm restoring.
I'm restoring this motorcyclewe're talking about well, um,
what so?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
when did you and when you guys kind of went on your
own or was your dad still, like,had the car and you were
working on it, like after whenyou guys were old enough to kind
of start going after your?

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, yeah, the kids took it over.
Don started racing the 444 carAfter 57, my dad had one of his
partners in a.
He had a body shop and he wasthe driver of it.
And then in 57, don took overand of course, don and I and my
dad was one thing about my dad.

(10:14):
He said don't worry aboutcutting the car up, make it
better.
Oh yeah, improve, so yeah.
And there's so many people nowthat, oh my God, you're tearing
up a legendary car.
You know it's famous and I go.
Well, it's still getting morefamous.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
We need to make it better.
Get the hacksaw out, let'schange it.
There's no end to that.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I like that philosophy though.
Yeah, so you guys.
So how long did you guys racethe 4444?
I mean, you're still racing it,but how long did you race it
until you started doing someother things?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
I raced it right up to 1981 when I turned it over
with a blown tire and that waswith Dave Spangler's engine out
of his Jeep.
He was driving to work.
That's crazy.
Anyway, Dave was supposed todrive it after I got done with
it, but there was nothing leftof it.

(11:10):
So that ended his drivingcareer for a while.
But that's when I decided tobuild a safer, faster car, and
that was Project 425, which isnow the Terminator.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Dave's getting his ride now yeah, no kidding,
you're like, I got a better ridefor you, dave, a faster ride at
least.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
So it all, it's all worked out, it's gone full
circle.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
I guess you say yeah, yeah well, in between, like the
60s and 70s, what were you guysdoing?

Speaker 3 (11:39):
you were don was racing motorcycles no, we were
both racing motorcycles andstill campaigning dad's car up
and through.
I think we yeah, 81 was thelast time we drove it.
But yeah, that was it.
But I built motorcyclestreamliner.
I had a 100cc motorcycle that Iwas out there, jinx and I my

(12:04):
wife was out on the salt flatswith burt monroe and my
motorcycle looked like hisbecause I thought his was cool.
And uh, I went, I went 113 outthere and set a record with 100
cc on gasoline and uh, anyway,burt went, I like 160 or
something that day.

(12:24):
So big contrast, he has a1,000cc antique motorcycle, so
we're familiar with antiquesanyway, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
What year was that that you did that?
That was 68.
That's so cool, yeah, yeah.
And so you were racing thosemotorcycles.
And then what about Don?

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Don was racing.
He started, he was a road racer.
He won Daytona Road Racing in1963 and gave the first win to a
Japanese company and it wasYamaha.
And he became a Yamaha dealerafter that and he built a little
motorcycle streamliner that hebroke his collarbone in right

(13:09):
off the get-go.
So he anyway, he said, well,he's going to build something
faster and better, and so that'shis legacy for getting up to be
the world record holder formotorcycles Just keep building,
you have a problem?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
you build a better, build, a bigger, better one,
better mousetrap.
So you guys were kind of justdoing those.
You guys were mostly doing themotorcycle stuff in the 70s.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
My dad was pretty much all cars and of course when
we were younger, in the 50s,you know, you could hardly
afford a motorcycle.
Oh yeah, yeah, my brother, wehad Mustangs and we had old
Cushmans, cushman motor scootersthat used to give you a shin
splint because the starter neverworked on them and all kinds of

(13:55):
stuff.
I went drag racing with mybrother, chuck, when I was 14.
My mom didn't know that I did,but I took Don's drag bike and
went to Mexico, to Tijuana.
Oh yikes, we drag raced on theTijuana Raceway, which was an

(14:15):
airport on the beach with a bigbump in the middle of it.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh my God, so I?

Speaker 3 (14:20):
was 14, and I was in Mexico racing.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Of course you couldn't race in the US unless
you had a driver's license.
So anyway, good thing your momdidn't know, that would never
have happened for sure.
Well, there's a lot of thingsthey didn't know.
Oh, that's pretty cool though.
So you guys, you're doing otherkinds of racing as well in
between.
Oh yeah, we do a lot ofoff-road racing.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Oh yeah, we do a lot of off-road racing and I took
Steve McQueen's place in 1968 atthe Las Vegas Mint 400 off-road
race.
And how this happened was theHusqvarna magazine guy at the
Mint and he had to have tworiders and it was a long race,
12 hours or whatever it was.
Anyway, the guy called mebecause I was winning a lot of
races in San Diego off-road witha 100cc motorcycle, with a

(15:22):
100cc motorcycle, and he said,wow, he says man, would you go?

Speaker 1 (15:33):
to Vegas and take his place.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
So it was the funniest thing ever, because all
the pit stops or checkpoints atthe races had 9,000 women there
to see Steve McQueen and I'dcome pulling in and they're
going.
That's not Steve McQueen, theylied to us.
That's a real tall guy.
Long story short.
We were running in ninth place,which was in the money.

(15:56):
My lap time was faster than themagazine guy.
He was mad but he crashed.
I started the race and then hefinished it but he fell down in
the powder and we got 19th.
I think, oh my, that's so cool,but it was really funny.
That's my claim to fame.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, no kidding.
So what year was that that youdid that?

Speaker 3 (16:19):
68, 1968.
And what?

Speaker 2 (16:21):
year did you get married 67.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
67.
Yeah, we'd been married a longtime, but it wasn't for Jinx,
this whole thing would havefolded, that's what I was going
to say.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Jinx is a big part of this whole operation.
So you guys got married in 67.
But really do you think yourland speed racing like when did
you get real hot and heavy inthat?

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Well as soon as we started putting small block
Chevys in the 444 car.
And then Don was gettingpowerful motorcycle engines from
the factory as road racingprogressed.
So yeah, Don was the firstperson to go 250 in a motorcycle
, 300 on a motorcycle, and thenagain held the motorcycle land
speed record for Yamaha, andagain later with a Kawasaki, and

(17:08):
his top speed was 333 in 78.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Wow, what class is that it?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
was a 1300 Streamliner at the time.
So, is this like in the?
It was a two four-cylinder 1000Kawasaki's turbocharged
four-cylinder, 1000 Kawasaki'sturbocharged, and he used to
have a little cable over hisshoulder because the Kawasaki
gearboxes wouldn't hold thepower that it was making and the
only way he could do it was hegave it no turbo boost.

(17:37):
He had a little cable that hehad a wheel on it.
It had a little electric motorthat changed the boost of the
engine and so he'd get it up toabout 150 in high gear and he'd
just start screwing the boost up.
Oh, my goodness so he wasgearing it up with the
horsepower, or so.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
So he had to go one-handed to turn the boost up.
Yeah, he's driving a motorcyclewith one hand and turning the
boost up to get 300.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Oh my goodness, yeah, any other way he would go up as
fast as he could go in low gearand it would break the gearbox
and it'd shift.
Then it would break the gearbox.
Could never make two runs.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
And this is for that.
Did you say it was 300 that hewent in that one or 200?
233, what did you say?

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Well, let's see His early.
Yeah, he was over 300 when thisthing was breaking gearboxes.
It was 27 days on.
The salt flats is all I cantell you oh, my goodness he
would drive back to California.
Have guys make new gears forhim, come back up, put it
together and then run it.
Don was an animal when it comesto racing.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, he was a character.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, he was a character.
Yeah, he was a character.
So is this like in?

Speaker 3 (18:48):
the late 70s, early 80s, that would have been.
Yeah, 78 area was about the endof the turbocharged Kawasaki
thing.
And then he did thisOffenhauser-powered.
He converted his motorcycleinto a car which did not work
and crashed severely, and that'swhat I'm putting back together
today.
But anyway, then that's how wegot hooked up together.

(19:12):
I started sending him drawingsof parts I needed made and he
would make the parts and sendthem to Brigham City and that's

(19:34):
how we got the thing done and weran it in 88.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Okay, in 88.
Yeah, and this is the Project425 that you ran in 88?
He started that.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
That's the one that's now the Turbinator Right and
the Turbinator 1 is the oneDon's current, still to this
date holds the FIA wheel-drivenland speed record at 458 with an
exit speed of 470.
And that now is in the museumin San Diego and we're trying to

(20:07):
get his motorcycle finished upand then when we get done with
the 444 car hopefully this yearor next it'll go into a museum.
We're trying to decide whatmuseum, because most museums are
either car or motorcycle and Iwant to get the motorcycle and
car together.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, that'd be perfect for your family.
You guys got to be in a museumtogether.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
And we were born and raised in San Diego, so it's
just a natural to have it there.
But San Diego, I found out, istrading or somehow connected
with the LA Peterson Museum.
Oh, because they trade thingsback and forth.
So I'm not letting them ownanything, I'm loaning it to them

(20:49):
.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
So then, if you're going to get something out there
that people have never seen,you need to switch it around to
different museums in the family,and I don't know what Calvin's
going to do, but I don't thinkhe's going to be wanting to run
cars around to different museumsin the future, but who knows?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
So we were talking about Project 425.
That's when you guys reallykind of hooked up back together,
is that right?
Project 425 was started when Icrashed the 444 car Right and
you wanted the safer, faster car, faster car.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Four-wheel drive was the goal.
We were trying to accelerate.
I knew we had to acceleratequicker.
You know there's a real problemwith bigger tires you get
better traction, but the windresistance is horrible.
So I'm trying to put together a24.5 tire, which was what
Birkeland got built, and they'reperfect size tires for this.

(21:45):
The first run we made we're onsome old Firestones and we took
the rubber off on them.
It was like gone instantly.
This wouldn't work.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, anyway, and that's kind of where your focus
has been ever since is on thiscar.
So, on Project 425, what wasthe original engine that you had
in it?

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, we had two small block Chevys.
They were 355 small blocks andjust Holley, four barrel on
gasoline and we figured we wouldshake it down.
We ran it two-wheel drive firstand then we hooked up the
four-wheel drive to make sure ithandled good and anyway
everything seemed to be workingpretty good on the car.

(22:24):
And then Edelbrock was oursponsor and it was a handshake,
a typical racer thing, and hecalled and said that they had an
embezzlement of $3 million andthat he couldn't support the
project.
After we just got it finished,oh yeah, cubic inch turbo offies

(22:53):
that were kind of outlawed atIndy in the 70s and they put out
for Indy, for the race, about27 pounds of boost, about maybe
800 horsepower.
But those engines would put out1,000 horsepower with about 55
pounds of boost and they werequite the little muscly engine.

(23:14):
But the problem was they wereantique, obsolete and we
couldn't find parts.
After we made our couple ofruns and got it up pretty fast,
we dropped an intake valve andDon had put a turbocharger, a
big turbo, on for both motors,sharing one plenum chamber for
the intake, sharing one plenumchamber for the intake, and the

(23:35):
valve that broke in one enginewent to the other and it ate the
motors up before it got shutoff.
And so then we had to abandonthe office thing and boy Don
worked his butt off gettingthose.
I don't know how he got them inthat car, but anybody that was
out there was going holy cow,how did you do this?

(23:56):
The car is really small.
I mean it's long but it's narrowand there's no place to stick
your fingers to work on iteither.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well, how narrow is it?

Speaker 3 (24:06):
It's 36 inches wide and 36 feet long.
Oh wow yeah 36 by 36.
It weighs 5,000 pounds.
It's the weight ratio front torear.
We're about 51% heavy on thefront.
It has about 400 pounds of leadin the nose.
Nobody knows about it becauseit's hidden up under the frame.

(24:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And we can talk about why that is.
But so that's because youswitched to the turbine engine,
just because it was hard to getthese offies Yep, the turbine.
So that's because you switchedto the turbine engine just
because it was hard to get theseoffies.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Lance Morris was one of our—he worked for Hooker
Headers too.
That's where I met Lance and hewas an automotive guy.
He worked for Keith Black forquite a few years when he was
younger and he and I wereworking in the engineering
department at Hooker, had twodinos running.
Working in the engineeringdepartment at Hooker had two
dinos running and my job therewas to develop exhaust systems

(25:00):
for motorcycles and snowmobilesat the time.
And anyway, lance, he was acharacter.
He fit right in with our group.
So he actually got hooked upwith Bernie Little in the
Budweiser Unlimited Hydros andhe was the crew chief for them
and he would actually haul theboat from city to city quite a

(25:24):
deal.
He parked in my cul-de-sac inBrigham City with the Budweiser.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Unlimited Hydro behind it.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
All my neighbors were freaking out.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Giving you the stink eye about that, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Anyway, there was a race in San Diego.
They did Unlimiteds every yearand Lance invited Don to be part
of the crew at that race downthere.
And I was at my motorcycle shopin Brigham City and Don called
me.
He says we got to get one ofthese turbine engines.
They're doing 200 miles an hourin the no-wake zone.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
He says I got a plan here.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
I got a plan.
So Lance hooked us up with ArtArfons and his brother and we
bought a turbine engine from himand we didn't know squat about
it.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, I was going to say how was that?

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Let's put it this way we know a lot about it now,
yeah, that was going to say howwas that?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Let's put it this way we know a lot about it now.
Yeah, that's a big transitionbetween the two.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah, Well, it's a shaft turbine, I mean it's an
internal combustion engine, soit's like a carbureted small
block or a supercharged one.
And then there's a turbochargedone, I mean the turbine engines
.
They keep building them betterfor the helicopters, and the one
Don set the land speed recordwith had 3,750 horsepower.

(26:44):
The one we're using nowcorrected for altitude, but at
sea level 5,300 horsepower, andat Bonneville we're at about
4,700 horsepower.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Wow, wow.
So when you guys switched over,what did you do Like the first
time you went out, was it?

Speaker 3 (27:08):
We twisted stuff off.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Drive shafts Real learning curve here?

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, well, tell us about that.
That's what you were sayingabout how you guys got it all
together and you had to go backbecause it was going.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Well, yeah, well, what happened is?
Don asked our Fonz which waythe engine turned clockwise or
counterclockwise?
Well, he said clockwise and Donsays, okay, that's cool, that's
the same as my car.
Yeah, yeah, that's the same asmy car, yeah, yeah no problem.
It's not true.
No problem, not true at all.
So anyway, we had to build ourown gearbox and everything to

(27:45):
transfer the power to thefour-wheel drive.
And Don had a friend fromEngland that was an engineer and
that's what he did, is builtgearboxes.
So Don was calling him in, heset a dummy motor in and
measured everything as to whatcenters are for the driveshaft
and on the engine and how we hadto fit it in the body.

(28:08):
And, oh my God, it was a majorproject and I called Carpenter
Steel and Alloy and they had aturbine steel they developed, it
was called Air Mat 100, andthey sent us 900 pounds of steel
and we made gearboxes and wemade driveshafts and everything

(28:30):
else.
But what we didn't change.
Well, we've got to get back tothis.
The first time we went out witha turbine started it up out
there.
We were out there with Nish inOctober and it was snowing.
It was a nightmare.
We started it up and the wheelswent backwards.
Yeah, because an airplaneclockwise is from sitting in the

(28:53):
cockpit with the motor in frontof you, with the propeller
pointing forward and a car.
You're looking at the front ofthe engine, the crank shaft.
That's where the old Model Aand Model T cranks, you know.
So basically we put the gearboxtogether backwards too.
Because it's a full-pressure,dry sump gearbox, it's got oil

(29:16):
sprayers on the gears because ofthe amount of torque that goes
through them.
So Don and I went into town theNish guys.
They just cracked up over there.
It was running, fire was comingout of it.
They were roasting weenies andhot dogs over it.
Oh my.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
God, it's fun when it's somebody else's mistake.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
So we went into town.
We found a guy that had agarage in town In.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Wendover.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
In Wendover and we worked all night on it.
I couldn't stand it anymore.
At 3.30 in the morning I wentback to the hotel, went to bed,
but he went back out to theraces.
And about nine in the morninghere comes Don.
He's headed back together.
Luckily we had industrial50-horse gearboxes.

(30:05):
That's what I think Berklandended up putting in his car.
Similar thing, maybe one gradehigher.
And anyway we were starting totwist the original drive shaft
for a 50-horsepower gearbox.
It was a one-to-one ring andpinion and it had inch and
three-eighths shafts which wouldnormally be pretty stout, but

(30:28):
they were made out of mild steeland it was Browning Gearbox
Company.
And it was Browning GearboxCompany and we called Browning
and said do you have blueprintswe can have of your gearbox
Because we need to upgrade it?
And the guy asked what we weredoing.
He goes there's no way you'reputting turbine power through

(30:51):
this motor, through this gearbox.
It can't do it.
So anyway, the shafts weretwisting so that we solved right
away and uh, oh, my god, itjust ended up being one thing
after another and uh, uh,learning, learning curve the
hard way and eventually, afterdon set the land speed record,

(31:13):
we did, don blew a gearboxbearing out in the gearbox.
But he did set.
We did set the land speedrecord with the original gearbox
that we built.
But when we got ready to makeTurbinator 2 here I knew the
problem with the gearbox.
So my friend Lance took it tothe gear works which did the.

(31:36):
We did all the hobbing JiffyMachine.
El Cajon, california, did allthe rough work for the gears,
cut them to size and everything.
Then we sent them up to thegear works up in Seattle and in
Portland there was a heat treatcompany that did the heat
treating on them.

(31:56):
But I had to send it back up toPortland to have them change
the nozzles to the right side ofthe gear because they were on
the wrong side of the gear foroiling it.
Anyway, it's just one of thosethings that happens.
It's really discouragingbecause you go no man.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Oh yeah, this is a bunch of work coming up here,
yeah yeah, and you've alreadyput a bunch of work into it and
you're just like, oh goodness,so, but Don did eventually get
the record in that 458 FIA andthat book that's still in the
books today hasn't been bumped.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
The USFRA with Turbinator II, 2018, October.
That event, we went 482, andthat's the current fastest
record on any books.
And, of course, Dave Spangler,driving the first human with a
wheel-driven car to go 500 milesan hour.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's impressive.
What is the class?
I mean like is it?

Speaker 3 (33:02):
does Turbinator have its own engine class like a
turbine engine?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Turbines are the same as electric.
They do it by weight.
Okay, amount of batteries islike horsepower, and bigger
turbine engines more horsepower,like small blocks to big blocks
, chevys or Fords or whateveryou're doing.
There's no fuel issue.
I mean, it's just turbines runon kerosene.
But we did water inject it fora test run we made in 2021.

(33:27):
And that bumped the horsepowerup about 200.
And it dropped the exhaust gastemperature down.
So we were very excited aboutgoing out in 2024 and going
really fast, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Didn't work.
What happened?
What happened?

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, to this date we don't know, but we broke a
driveshaft in it, which to methe second.
They said that the thing thisis the dino man that was the
dino man and the fuel controlguy were in our pits and when
the thing got right, about athird of a mile from the
starting line, it made a bigbang.

(34:08):
I mean, dave said it was a loudthump and shut down the engine
automatically shut down anyway.
Uh, we got into the pits andwhen they were talking about it,
the engine guy said, uh, thedino man that they worked
together on the engine fuelcontrol guy and the dino man, uh

(34:30):
, they broke one engine on thedino, so they had history with
it.
But the dyno man said it had acompressor stall which we've
experienced early on, because wecut the salt spray off the
front tires, cut holes in thebottom of the car and the salt

(34:54):
got in the engine and it did acompressor stall and they make
like a sonic boom and when thathappened to us, uh, we were
doing about 437, that was in 99that you could hear it coming
boom, boom, boom and that wasthe end of that.
But it did this compressorstall in 2024 at Speedweek and

(35:18):
the dyno guy said it was acompressor stall.
And he said compressor stalland I said we broke a driveline.
The first thing I thought of,because the amount of torque
when a compressor stalls, theengine's trying to run backwards
.
Basically when a compressorstalls, the engine's trying to
run backwards, basically thepressure in it isn't where it's

(35:39):
supposed to be for that low aspeed.
It's just got too much fuel.
There's probably a combinationof things that made it happen.
But anyway, I said I'll check,see if the gear, if we broke
something in the drivetrain.
So it's real easy.
We jacked this car hashydraulic jacks we jacked it up

(35:59):
and I turned the rear wheel andthe front wheels turned and the
turbine engine turned.
So I'm going.
Okay, it didn't break adriveshaft.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
And so we decided, okay, we started the motor up
again and anyway, they wentthrough all their data.
It's all computerized and it'sfar beyond me how to actually
take a turbine and put it in arace car.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Nobody's ever really done that before, so you guys
are one of the first ones toreally do that to put the
turbine in.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Well, there's guys been doing tractor pull stuff,
you know, but nothing atBonneville but land speed racing
.
Well we got.
Bruce Linsmeyer has a littleturbine out there and Lance
Morris with Dallas.
Dallas went into town to pickup Lance at the airport one day.
Dallas went into town to pickup Lance at the airport one day.

(36:57):
Lance has his two-club hat onwhen he jumps in the truck or
the car, whatever he picked himup with.
And Lance is talking about howeasy it was to get in the
two-club.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
He drove Bruce Linsmeier's little turbine car
to 200 miles an hour.
He drove Bruce Linsmeier'slittle turbine car to 200 miles
an hour.
And the best part of that wholestory is Lance was a real
fair-skinned, kind of a frecklyguy and he had—the car was flat
black, he had a black fire suiton and we went into—Dawn and I

(37:32):
went into impound.
After he got his200-mile-an-hour record, Lance
had the top of his fire suitunzipped and it was tied around
his waist.
He was bright red, sweating,and he was all excited.
He just did it.
You know, blah, blah, blah.
Don hands him a snow cone.

(37:53):
The snow cone got down histhroat here before it came back
up.
Don had taken fender salt, wentto the snow cone shack and had
him put syrup on the top.
It was all salt.
Oh my gosh, it was salt.
Oh, Don, yeah, but Don that wasall salt.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Oh my gosh, it was salt, oh Don.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, but Don, that was always something.
And then we went into town tocelebrate that night.
Lance Don got up to go to thebathroom.
Lance Don always had to havelittle eclairs, little desserts.
He brings back about threeeclairs.
He has them on the table.
But he went to the bathroom,lance took the salt shaker, took

(38:45):
the lid off and poured salt ineach one.
And all of us at the tablethere are like 20 people there
right Watching this whole thingDon ate them all and didn't
flinch.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
He knew what was going on.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
No, you can't get back to that, Don no way.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Oh, he was so funny, yeah.
So going back just a little bitbefore we, what year?
I was just thinking this likewhat year did you get in the two
club?

Speaker 3 (39:07):
2000,.
Take that back.
What year was it, jinx?
I got to think about this 76, Ithink it was yeah.
What did you get in 213 with 80cubic inch Yamaha on gasoline?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Oh, so you got in on a motorcycle?
No, it was motorcycle engineson the 444 car.
Oh, in the 444, yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Huh, and then what year did you get in the 300 mile
an hour, chapter 09.
09.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Yeah, Huh, and then, what year did you get in the 300
?

Speaker 2 (39:38):
mile an hour, chapter 09.
09.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
When would you do that in?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
That was a Duttweiler motor, 372, small block on 20%
nitro.
And yeah, it was reallyinteresting, duttweiler, he
heard the speed.
I went out the back door at 350, and he comes over Because that
engine, duttweiler built it forus in 97, and Dave Spangler got

(40:01):
in the three club with it.
Okay, okay, well, we put thatengine away and in 09, we
decided, well, we'll put it back.
I had a guy in Vegas go throughthe motor and anyway, the thing
goes down there.
Dottweiler comes over to ourpit.
He goes what engine was that?

(40:21):
I said that was your motor.
No way, no way.
He said it's impossible.
He said that thing's soobsolete.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
And how fast did you go?

Speaker 3 (40:34):
A 350 exit.
Well, the mile was 340, I think.
But on the return run it blew avalley gasket and anyway it
caught on fire and my averagewas 335.
It's still in the books, Ithink.
I don't think anybody's brokenit.
What class was that?
It was C Fuel, Strimliner, CFuel.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Strimliner.
So what year did Don get in the200-mile-an-hour club?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
He got in the 444 car in 63.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
63?
.
What did you say, James?

Speaker 3 (41:05):
63.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay, and what was his—do you remember how fast he—
322.
So he went to—he got in thetwo-club on a three.
322 is half a 444.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Oh my gosh, that's so cool.
What was the other part of thatstory, Jinx?
Wait, you mean 2.22.
He went 2.22.
It's half.
The speed was half of thenumber 4.44.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Okay.
Daytona that same year thatGrand Prix.
He did what he won Daytona.
Well, he won Daytona that way,but oh I know what it was.
Something about 1-1-1.
Huh, well, that was a realcoincidence.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Hey, I think those numbers there's stuff in numbers
.
Yeah, that's cool, though.
So he went 222.
That's how he got his record on222.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
It had a 180 cubic inch Offenhauser in it, okay,
and it was just injected onalcohol.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Cool, and the three chapter wasn't even a thing at
that time.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
No, there was no such thing.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And what year did Don pass away?

Speaker 3 (42:18):
80, 2002.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Okay, 2002.
So, and he was racing.
Was he racing the Turbinator upuntil that point?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Yeah, we were racing it.
He had already in 2001,.
He set the land speed record,the FIA land speed record.
Okay, that's when uh-huh landspeed record and then we were
going to modify it to get moreair to the engine, because the
whole thing, our goal was to go500, and we didn't think about a
500 mile an hour record, wejust thought we'd go 500.

(42:46):
But what happened in 2001 whenwe were out there at Speed Week?
There At Speed Week, Don went400 or 470 first run at Speed
Week and he said it'll go 500.
He comes in the pits, he's allexcited.

(43:06):
He says this thing will go 500.
He wanted to go back out and go500 at Speed Week and Lance and
I Lance was kind of our crewchief on- the turbine at the
time.
We're going wait a minute.
The English hold the turbinerecord at 403.

(43:26):
I said, don, let's go 403 FIAat the next meet, because I
prepared the course for Dawnthat year.
Oh really, yeah, I had my owncourse out there.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Oh, on the FIA.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, fia thing.
Anyway, I talked the BonnevilleNational guys to run my course
because, larry, your dad saidthat my course was better and it
wasn't far off of the othercourse.
But it was like hard as a rockand anyway I talked them into
running their world finals there.

(44:03):
And then Nolan and I don't know, we got about 14 people
together to share the FIA costs,but that's the only.
Then Jinx and I and Lancejumped in our van and left Don
signing autographs at Speed Week.
And then we came back andthat's when Don—he set the land
speed record and that 461 speedin the last mile.

(44:26):
That's where the Zeus fastenercame out of the body and went
through the engine.
That was on the return run.
Yes, ah.
So he came that close to notsetting that land speed record,
oh my goodness.
But anyway, if I would let himkeep dinking around at
Bonneville trying to make it goat Speed Week, which is hard to
do, it's just so many people andstuff there.

(44:49):
Yeah right Logistically.
Yeah, that's how we found thisproperty down here to build.
We just came through ZionNational Park on vacation with
Lance and found the property, sothis is the new home of the
Vesco Team Vesco.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Racing.
I guess that's so nice, it's socool down here.
Well, can you explain?
I mean, I know, but an FIArecord, like, what's the why
it's different?
Well, it should it?

Speaker 3 (45:19):
really?
It doesn't mean much ofanything anymore because when it
started out, guys, the firstrecords were like what?
30 miles an hour.
So downhill, you know, havingthe same flying mile, and
headwinds and tailwinds, youknow.
So they made a two directionalrun situation.

(45:41):
Well, the clocks nowadays areaccurate, accurate, accurate.
I don't care whose event you'reat, there's no cheating, no,
everything's surveyed.
And as long as you do it acrossthe same mile, then you can't

(46:02):
run a speed week doing both waysanymore.
I mean there's too many peopleout there.
The races are slow enough.
It's the fastest slow sport inthe world.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
That's true.
There's a lot of hurry up andwait, a lot of hurry up and wait
, a lot of hurry up and wait.
So that was the originalconcern with FIA is like oh, the
clocks might be off or thetiming might be changed.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Originally they used to use a flag, believe it or not
, in the real early days backthere when, before the chemical
companies out there stealing thesalt, they did the big circle
thing and all that, but theywere doing it with a stopwatch.
Well, you can't do a stopwatchin Bonneville, you can't see
over the horizon, right?
Anyway, I know that today, aslong as it's a backed-up run and

(46:45):
you impound the vehicle, Ithink right now Bonneville
Nationals and the USFRA andeverybody is working on the
right thing.
We just need to save theBonneville salt flats for future
generations, and that's a wholeother story.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
That is a whole but you have a lot.
You're a big part of the Savethe Salt, birth of the Save the
Salt.
You know whole initiative.
You.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Dad.
Well, in 1976, the Bureau ofLand Management took the salt
flats away from the state ofUtah.
That really aggravatedeverybody, even the racers from
Speed Week coming up fromCalifornia.
Once a year prior to that, from49, everybody recognized that

(47:32):
something's going on with thesalt flats.
And then they put the freewaythrough in whatever year it was
73, something like that and thenit got worse and worse.
I mean, it was obvious that itwas man-caused problem.
Well, the racers are the onesin the 50s that go.

(47:54):
Well, we're drilling holes outhere to put stakes in.
And it's not the same everyyear.
That's really different.
And even when I was out therewhen I was a young kid, I was
mesmerized by the fact they usedto always have the bell tent
out there parts place and theybrought out a water truck from
Wendover.
That water truck always leakedand it made a cone-shaped hole

(48:20):
in the salt about 13 inches deep.
There was no mud, none.
It was crystal blue skyreflecting on the water.
And now you can't, they won'teven let a motorhome out there
and drip water out of their youknow, out of their RV without
putting them in jail.
Yeah, but it was obvious thatthe industry was the only thing

(48:45):
out there that was the commondenominator for salt loss, and
the freeway didn't help, b-waydidn't help.
The BLM giving out federalleases to the mining industry
all around the salt flats Right.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
It just procrastinated the whole
situation.
But then you as racers kind ofcame up with a solution that
worked.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Larry and all of us guys got together and we started
Save the Salt and luckily NHRAgot involved.
But I'll tell you what themining industry has the
lobbyists.
It's all about money.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
But if the BLM did its job, because the BLM's job
is to make sure that the miningor the stocks or whatever they
have are to leave it as good asyou found it, kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Well, they don't have that in the situation with the
mining industry out there.
When World War I happened, thefederal government gave the
mining industry 100 square milesof property out there.
That's what started it all.
Well, then they gave themfederal leases and even though

(49:57):
the Bonneville Salt Plats earlyon when I first got up in Utah
in the early 70s I was on theBonneville, I was on the
advisory board for the BLM forthe district that the Salt Plats
had and that group of peoplethere, Frank Snell and the guys

(50:18):
that were running it, they lovethe sport, they love the history
.
They were our friends, themining people.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
No, this is the BLM people.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
They understood what was going on.
They created a recreationalmanagement plan.
It was a book about an inchthick that talked about racing,
how to prepare the course, howlong the course was, how many
200 hours to prep it, blacklines had to put oil down and as

(51:06):
of now, after all these years,they've discarded that
Bonneville plan that we had.
So it was historical for racing, the US Historical Society
Racing is what it's historicalfor, and it's on an area of
critical environmental concern,and they have ignored all of

(51:27):
their duties.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Right, that's the bottom line Right and it's the
only one, like you were saying,in the Northern Hemisphere, the
only place like it.
The other two are in theSouthern.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Hemisphere.
No, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
And it's the only one with easy access to it.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Well, it's easy access to services.
You know the town, the economicsituation, but it's just a sad
situation that it's gettingignored by the locals.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
But politics yeah, but politics yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Well, and we can listen.
Yeah, I think.
Yeah, if you listened to thelast podcast, you should listen
to it.
I know you haven't had a chanceto, but yeah, and like I said
we just talked about, I thinkthere's.
I think there's.
I mean, I think, if we did the,the, what is the project that
you guys did in the early 90s orlate 90s, maybe I can't
remember where it started, thereclamation?

(52:20):
Is it called?
No, what is it called?
You're talking about thepumping project?
Yeah, but you guys had a namefor it, didn't you?
No, maybe not.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Well, it was a test it was a five-year test to see
if we could bring earlygeologists said the simple
solution out there, when peoplewere normal and they had common
sense was to reverse the miningproject, because they can't mine

(52:46):
in the winter and make money sothey could pump salt back to
the raceway Right, Becausesalt's a byproduct Right to the
raceway, Right, Because salt's abyproduct Right.
And in 1997, I came up withthis pumping project to test
that idea.
Well, it worked really fine andthat's why we got in 2001,.

(53:07):
I got a.
That year there was an inch anda quarter of new salt over the
whole area that we were racingon.
I had an 11-mile course.
Don said it was as smooth as abowling alley.
Yeah, Anyway.
Then they said, oh no.
Then we got to study it more.
Oh, always a study, Always astudy.

(53:29):
And it didn't really workaccording to them.
And of course we're notgeologists, so we don't have any
say about anything.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
You're not an expert, no, we're not an expert.
You only just go out there allthe time, but yeah, the racers
are really responsible for.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
you know making the government aware that there's a
problem there and they touch onit.
You know you'll see a TV showabout it the history, and then
nothing.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Right and you can actually see.
I mean, I think I can see adifference from even just coming
out on the access road where itused to be salt all the way in,
right Even from the gas station.
It was salty and now it's noteven close.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Even Brenda Bowen right now, which is our worst
enemy actually.
She said that it's reallychanged fast over a short period
of time, but still she justwants another study, right.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, yep, yeah, I wonder why, yeah.
And then the latest one thatthey did I can't remember the
guy's name, it's Jeremy,something.
It was basically like he saidthat it didn't come, which I
don't even care, like it didn'tcome from Lake Bonneville, it
was from somewhere else.
The water's coming from theother mountains, and who cares?

(54:46):
Who cares how it was formed?
I mean for me, for us, forracing?
And then he just said,basically it's like disappearing
and there's just nothing youcan do about it.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
It's just kind of like it's going to do that.
There's all kinds of things youcan do.
First off, if you Google Earth,the Bonneville salt flats, all
of the federal leases that thefederal government gave the
mining industry, there's erosionruts.
You can see it plain as dayfrom the racetrack right into
the ditch and they have yet tofix that.

(55:17):
So rain is what makeseverything work out there.
It melts the salt, it blowsback and forth, levels it, it
dries up.
Wherever the water dries up isusually the best salt.
Anyway, everything is soobvious.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Well, and my question is if it's just disappearing
because that's just the way it'sgoing to go and it's not really
anything to do with the miningor the BLM managing it, then why
is it not doing that inAustralia?

Speaker 3 (55:50):
The government takes care of their land over there.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Well, I'm sure they don't have mining projects
either.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
No, they do not allow mining on their treasure.
It's a treasure each one ofthose salt flats, Bolivia and
everything.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Right, right, you're absolutely right.
It is a treasure.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
So hopefully maybe we can— the BLM charter in Salt
Lake City at least it was was toprotect and preserve the
Bonneville salt flats.
Well, they're so far away fromthat it isn't even funny, right,
right, I agree.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Well, I think maybe we can start.
I think, like we said, I thinkthe wind got knocked out of
their sails after COVID whenthey had something set up and
Chris Stewart Congressman ChrisStewart at the time really lied
to us and said that he was goingto go and get some $5 million.
Just $5 million is all theyneed for this pumping project.
I mean, come on, it's like adrop in the bucket.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Well, right now, with Trump and common sense people
in there, I think it's time thatwe can get this handled.
There's no reason the miningindustry and the racers can't
work hand in hand.
It isn't like you're going tocut jobs out.
That was our original proposalin 89 is let's just reverse the
process.

(57:02):
But as droughts come and go,the water aquifers are important
and they need management and itreally is all about management.
I mean, right now we see ourwhole government is upside down
Right, and when you startdigging into where did the money
go, and this, that and theother, you find out real quick

(57:23):
who's telling the truth.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you're absolutely right
with this news.
Check every senator.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
See where he got his money from.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
It's going to be from big business.
Yeah, yep, it's just the way itworks.
Yeah, I agree, but if you getenough attention on it from
everybody, I think you can getsome pressure going, and that's
what really makes them.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Well, if you can get a government person that thinks
through how things operate rightnow, it's going to be real easy
to get them to do somethingabout it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And the fact of the matter is is you can't go as
fast as you want to go.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
No, Because of the salt, right I'm totally shocked
that we did 500 out there, right, I mean we have to pull a half
a G for five miles to get to 500with that 5,000 pound car.
Right, to get to 500 with that5,000-pound car.
Yeah, I'm lucky, I've told Dave.
When we went 500, I said I'mhappy right now.
Do you want to keep going?

Speaker 2 (58:21):
He goes oh yeah, I want to get a record.
Of course he does, but thinkabout if you had.
What was the longest track?
Do you think that they had atone point?

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Well, we know.
The thing is we have thedocuments from 1947 when the
mayor of Salt Lake City invitedthe Europeans, john Cobb, out.
In 1947.
The tire company Dunlop, whichwe ran Dunlop on stuff.
Over the years they made racingtires for Bonneville.

(58:50):
They sent their engineers tolook at the Bonneville salt
flats and try to decide whatkind of a compound and whatever.
They literally drilled holesall the way and measured the
salt.
It was 17 inches thick in themiddle, oh my gosh, and 13 and a
half miles of raceway.
Wow, yeah, and they explained.

(59:12):
It tapered out at the edges tomud because it's a lake bed and
the salt settled.
All common sense and that's theway it is.
And that it was they said intheir brochure for the race.
Which was what in the hell isthe guy's name, the mayor?
Oh, ab Jenkins.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Ab Jenkins.
Yeah, thank you, Ab.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
Jenkins.
They had a program.
They had people invited out,they had a souvenir program and
it wrote all about the saltflats and how it was made and
that it was hard as granite.
Wow, or no, as smooth asgranite, hard as concrete.
That was in the press release,so it's been documented and that

(59:58):
was done by geologists thatcame over here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Right, so when?

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
they talk about.
Oh, that isn't true.
They were talking about layersof salt, because you know how
you go down and the earlier itbuilds up over the years Right,
yeah, it grows.
At one time it was really good.
That's all I can tell you.
Yeah, see, even when they putthe highway in if you know the

(01:00:22):
Victory Highway for World War Ithey had a column over it to
open the two-lane highwaythrough the state, not the
interstate, but the old highwayand there was blocks of salt,
this big cut.
They were perfectly clean saltover the road, wow, and that's

(01:00:45):
all in.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Utah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
State history.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That's public knowledge.
Victory Highway that was theVictory Highway.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Victory Highway, yeah , highway 50, I think it was it
just gets you so upset yeah no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Frustrating, and it's just.
You know, we're just the littleguys, Just don't want to go out
there and, you know, do bigthings really.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Well, when Jinx and I moved down here in Stewart, I
don't care, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yes, I did hear that Like figure it out, you guys of
stuff, and oh he's, oh, yeah,yeah, yeah, it's really
important, you know, blah, blah,blah blah, and then nothing

(01:01:41):
happens.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Yep, you know, I said wow, we got a guy here that's
really going to do somethingmaybe.
And we found out later.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
We hired a lobbyist right.
Yep, mike, yeah, I can't Mike?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Yeah, I can.
Whatever, anyway, mike,whatever the lobbyist, yeah, I
said man, I said that guy toldus that he was going to take
care of this and blah, blah,blah.
And he said to me how muchmoney did you give to his
campaign?
Yeah, that's the answer.
So if you go look ateverybody's campaign and where
the money came from, you'regoing to find the mining

(01:02:17):
industry shoveling money, right,and our representatives.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
But with that whole thing, the mine was going to get
an upgrade with the whole.
When you guys created this,where the Utah was going to give
so much money, the racers weregoing to give so much money and
all we needed was the federalgovernment to give us $5 million
.
That was it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
And the mine was going to get an upgrade.
Here's the story too, on theproject in 97, it was a 20-year
project the mining industrystarted Pond 5, a new pond.
Pond 5, at the end of 20 yearshad 119 million tons of salt in
it and the mining industry hadto abandon it because it was too
thick and this is because ofthe pumping project.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I think we need to getthis back up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
If we could get the government to go over and
investigate the mining projecton site without anybody but
geologists and engineers, theanswer would come back in two
seconds.
Stop this or do something toget it back.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Right yeah, which would be the best solution,
right Like if everybody couldjust kind of get along and we
could just do it to get it backthe bottom line is race cars
were out there before.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Mercedes was out there before the mining industry
?

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Yeah, but the government of course had to have
minerals to make gunpowder andstuff.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
And even, as far as I know, lithium for batteries.
Yeah, they're taking it andselling it, but I don't think
it's in their contract with thegovernment.
At least it wasn't years ago,so you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Right now we got Ukraine big deal going on with
minerals.
Well, we got our own mineralshere that nobody even knows what
they're taking anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Investigate what they're really taking.
Yeah, that's a good point, yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Your drinks made me do this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Oh, you're looking at a legend.
Oh, we need to get those made.
We need to get more of thosemade.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I love it.
I stole this from Don.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Oh, is that his no?

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
it's really not.
I don't know who gave.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Somebody gave this to me, that's a great shirt.
It says you're looking at alegend is what his shirt says.
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Well, I got my three-chapter shirt on, but I
had to unveil it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
That's awesome.
I love it.
You are a legend, Rick.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Look at all this.
You've been out here since youknow what.
I don't feel like a legend.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Nobody does.
I asked Mike Nish to do onewith me and he said I don't feel
I'm not a legend, I'm like, oh,that's not the point.
The point is is that evenpeople that are this you know,
I've interviewed people thathave been like you, that have
gone, you know that have a carthat goes 500 miles an hour,
probably one of the biggestnames out there and I've
interviewed guys that just are,or girls that are smaller, and

(01:05:10):
the whole point is is that youare a legend.
The fact that you have made,you have dreamt something and
you've made it happen and you'vegotten out here, which is more
than the majority of people thatthink about it, that makes you,
I think that's pretty legendary, don't you think?

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
It's hard work it is yes, it was hard work.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
But you're definitely one of the bigger.
Yes, you're one of the biggerlegends out there.
No, the women couldn't evenrace out there.
I did not Until the 70s.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, marsha Hawley Vesco inthis right here, right First
woman right there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Okay, yeah, we didn't even touch on that.
So you had one of the first,the first woman racers out there
, the first one to go 200.
Three, well, she's the firstwoman in the 200-mile-an-hour
club.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
I remember when Marsha Hawley—.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
You guys have done so many things, I've totally
forgot about all of them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Marsha Hawley.
Vesco got in that on thestarting line and I'm standing
with—.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
And this is Dawn's wife at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Yeah, Dawn's wife right, and Gordon Hoyt.
She goes down the course andshe went 227 miles an hour.
First time out with it andGordon goes.
I don't care what they say.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
She's got balls.
I'll never forget it, oh that'sawesome, and so that was 1978
that she got in.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
That one was, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Well, she got in the two club in 78, because that's
the year I was born?

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Yeah, because everything happened in 78.
Dawn crashed this, that and theother.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
So what?
And she got in this?
What is this that we're lookingat, just so people can see.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
This was the Lightning Bolt Uh-huh Kawasaki,
twin turbocharged Kawasaki's init, and anyway, I don't know
what her average was, but we canlook it up.
She came to the two clubbanquet once not too long ago.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, I introduced her.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Well, that's right when we, when Landspeed, did the
ladies book, yeah, yeah, that'scool.
Yeah, ladies rule, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Jinx.
Nope, these women are a big.
These women are a big part.
I mean even somebody like jinxwho is support, I think, is
really important to her.
I just remember your mom.
I'll be so glad when the saltis saved.
My mom, here we are.
Here we are.
Oh yeah, she's out thereworking in the trailer.

(01:07:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
I hope, before Larry and I die, that somebody saves
the salt.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
That's what I want.
You guys can go rest in peace,knowing the salt is saved.
So Marsha got in, and thenthere's a couple other cool
things that you guys did.
You guys did well.
Wyatt pointed out on thepicture the skier on top of the
car.
That was kind of different.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Car.
Top skiing was done on theAutobahn in Germany on a
Mercedes or something.
It was 127 miles an hour andthen Sean Cridlin came and him
and his girlfriend wanted tobreak that and anyway we bumped
it up to 152 at Bonneville.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
And then we did the bicycle and speed record.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
That's another one I was going to bring up, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
And it was around 100-something, 120-something
miles an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Was this all on the 444 car?

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
444 car.
Yeah, they got used up.
It did the bicycle and the cartop skiing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
So the bicycle was interesting too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
I mean, that was a big deal yeah that was John
Howard, that was another friendof Dave Spangler's, anyway, from
the Olympics.
Okay, Hooker Headers made theOlympic bicycles back in the
early 80s and so that's how wegot hooked up with the bicycle
thing.
And then Dave rode velodromeand did all types of events

(01:09:04):
running events, triathlon,whatever they do and anyway we
did the.
I think they went 160.
The girl went 152 and the guywent 162.
It was like 10 miles an hourdifference.
Standing on the back of the 444car with their ski outfit on

(01:09:26):
and skis, oh yeah, and thebindings.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
That's right, it was a guy and a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
The bicycle was John Howard and we went to Mexico to
do it because the salt gotrained out in 82 and 3, whatever
it was in there.
We couldn't go there.
So the Mexican guy told themthey just paved the highway from
Ensenada down to wherever andit was perfectly smooth.

(01:09:57):
Well, on the way down it was sorough that it kicked the cruise
control out on my old Fordtruck and we got on there and we
got up to about 130.
We were over the record.
But there was a bridge that wehad to go over and we were going
fast enough that the car kindof got airborne and when it came

(01:10:21):
down the belly pan hit theasphalt and it covered the guy
with yellow paint all over hisface.
He was trembling, he was soscared.
But we had a friend of mine fromBrigham City, scott Spittler,
flew a helicopter down at night,which you're not supposed to do

(01:10:42):
.
He was going to do the filmingfor Salomini Films out of New
York City and the Mexicans, theyblocked it off.
Let us do the runs andeverything.
It was really kind of cool andhe landed the helicopter behind
the race car and he was allshaken and he didn't want to say

(01:11:03):
that he wanted to quit.
But we knew he wanted to quit.
And anyway, scott says well,I'll take you back to the pits
in the helicopter if you want.
That was a mistake.
Scott was just like the rest ofus.
He took that helicopter up intoa dead fall, turned it upside

(01:11:25):
down and flew him back to thepit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Oh, that poor guy.
He was already terrified.
He's probably like get me awayfrom these people.
They're crazy, these racers.
So when they do that with thebike, do they just let go of the
cord, like it's probably like,get me away from these people.
They're crazy, these racers.
So when they do that with thebike, do they just let go of the
cord, like it's just likethey're on a cord and then you
let go?

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Yeah, they're supposed to let go on their own.
We found out they were cheatingon that some.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Oh, that's good Anyway so anyway.
What were you going to say,though?

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
You're going to tell me something, something else
about the electric car.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
We set the electric car record with Eddie of Revolt
Systems from Riverside,california, or Lakeside,
oceanside.
I'll get it right Somewhereit's a side of something,
something by water.
Oceanside by water.
Anyway, when we set the recordsand we had our driver in there,

(01:12:15):
eric Ritter, oh yeah, anyway,we broke the record like the
second time out 353 with theTesla motors.
Wow, anyway, they were allexcited at the other end, like
everybody gets when you set arecord.
And when we got in the car,eric was back in my car and the

(01:12:36):
electric car motor guys were inanother car.
I told Eric I said these guyshad it too easy.
I mean, they didn't pay theirdues.
So we figured out that we weregoing to fake a call from Elon
Musk to Eddie B, the owner ofthe company, right, to Eddie B,
the owner of the company, right.
So I had my phone, my cellphone, on me and Eric had his.

(01:13:00):
And we come up with a plan.
Eric went over on the otherside.
We were pitting together the444 car and the Turbinator.
He goes over on the other sideof the Turbinator and gets down
on the salt and he calls me andwe're looking at the motor
package and stuff on theelectric car and Eddie B's right
next to me.
Of course I stage that to makesure he's there.

(01:13:21):
So my phone rings and I'm going.
Yeah, yeah, this is Rick Besko.
Yeah, we did, we just did.
You want to talk to Eddie here?
Yeah, okay, hold on.
It's a guy named Elon.
It went on.
That conversation went on for20 minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Was Eric on the other side.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Eric was acting like Elon Musk.
We got it videotaped.
You got to see it.
Oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Yeah, you don't have to give it.
Oh, dear.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
We chumped him so bad .

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Oh, what was he upset after?

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Well no, everybody knew except him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Mr Elon.
Mr Elon, he was probablythankful it wasn't him at the
end of the big.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
I'm glad I remembered that, because it's really good
at the end of the big.
I'm glad I remembered thatbecause it's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
So well, and I forgot about Eric.
How many people do you thinkthat you like between your cars
that you've gotten in the 200mile an hour club?

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
How many people?
Yeah, because you got.
You got, ronnie, or 300.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
You got Ronnie, you got Marsha, you got Don, you got
did.
Well, dave did it in adifferent car.
He got in the two clubseparately.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
We got Bob Blakely.
He got in the three club.
Uh-huh, three chapter, I shouldsay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Yeah, it's three chapter.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
God, I don't know, I don't keep track of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Oh, I like it.
That's interesting, that's alot.
I mean, it's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Somebody.
Land Speed Louise was trying tofigure all that out not long
ago, Jinx.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
People you got in the club yeah.
Yes, she was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Well, it was something about runs over 400, I
think, oh, runs over 400.
Well, you're too busy, justtrying to go faster.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
I think Poteet had that one.
Yeah yeah, that's so dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm glad we rememberedMarsha at the end there, because
that was cool.
You know you've done so much,we don't have to do it Well.
That's why I wanted to have youinvestigate some.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
I can't remember it all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
I know, yeah, I know it's a lot, so, okay, we're done
.
Well, thank you, we're done.
Thank you so much, thanks forlistening to Land Speed Legends.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any
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In the meantime, keep up withthe show on Facebook and
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Until next time.