The episode explores the critical state of the Bonneville Salt Flats, detailing its history, the effects of mining, and the community's fight for its preservation through initiatives like Save the Salt. The Legendary Larry Volk shares insights on the challenges posed by land use and the necessity for collective action to restore the flats for future generations.
• Historical context of potash mining
• Environmental impact of brine withdrawal
• Formation of Save the Salt Coalition
• Challenges with federal and local authorities
• Importance of raising public awareness
• Future strategies for salt restoration
• Emotional connections to the salt flats
• Call for collective community action
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Landspeed Legends, a podcast talking to
the men, the women, the legendsthat make land speed racing
great.
Discover the stories of theseordinary people whose passion
for land speed racing has madethem legendary.
And now here's your host theBonneville Belle, the High Boy,
(00:23):
honey, the salt princess, alisonVolk-Dean.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Today we have the legendary Larry Volk and we're
doing something very differentthan normal.
We're not just going to talkabout their his story but this
is part of his story but we'rereally going to talk about Save
the Salt and what is going onwith it.
We're going to go through thehistory of it and bring us all
(00:53):
the way up to the current timesand what needs to be done.
So, yeah, go for it, dad, let'shear what you have to.
Where would we start if we weretalking about Save the Salt?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, I'm going to start back in 1970, 17,.
Potash mining begins, okay, in1970, 1918, brian Collection
Dish dug at the Salt Daryl Loopand that's the.
The soldero mining companypulled um brine from that.
(01:27):
That ditch.
Okay, that was the start ofremoving salt and brine from the
salt flats.
So they're mining.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Okay, so they just started with salt and brine.
It wasn't potash at that point.
Yeah, they were after potashokay, yeah tell us what potash
is and what it's for and whyPotash it's been used for it's a
fertilizer.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Also, it's been used to do weapons, and that
basically was back in that timeduring the First World War.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
That's why they were after.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
The potash was more for military than it was for for
, yeah, for civilian type use,and so it is a potash is.
I mean it's an importantproduct.
We need that potash.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, definitely it is.
But one of the things when theydid the Saladero do and they
dug the Saladero loop they putif everybody notices the dike is
on the racetrack side, it wouldhave been great if they'd have
put it on the salderos at theinside dike then we wouldn't see
that.
You know wash of the dirt goingonto the racetrack.
(02:38):
Through the years that dike hasshrunk a lot from when they
first, even when I first wentout there in the 50s.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so 1918, what was the company that was doing
that you said?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Salt Arrow.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Salt Arrow Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
That was one of the first mining companies.
There was probably some beforethat, but I haven't found out
who it was or if they were readyto do anything that big and
they don't do anything with thesalt, it's just a pure byproduct
.
At that point in time I can'ttell you if they did or didn't
Okay.
Then between 1919 and 1925 iswhen they put the Highway 40
(03:16):
through, which came from SaltLake and headed towards Reno
through Wendover.
That had a little effect on thesalt flats too, because it
basically cut the north sidefrom the south side.
Okay, the salt flats wasactually huge before that.
The railroad did go through tooat that same time, pretty much
(03:36):
at that same time.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And that was really the only way to get out there
before the highway.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that was the only way until they got the
highway out.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And that was 40, it wasn't I-80 yet.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, it was Highway 40.
Yeah, it was a two lane.
It was a death trap Becausewe've traveled it many times.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
when my dad worked out in Wendover, Sorry, what
year did that go in, did you say?
I didn't hear.
I know you said it, but Between1919 and 1925.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Okay, okay, then we'll move on a few years.
In 1946, the US Bureau of LandManagement became the BSF
custodian, so they became thecustodian of the Salt Flats at
that time.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
The BLM did.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes.
Ok, and before that it was just, it was state ran did yes, okay
, and before that it was just oh, it was state ran yeah, it was
actually, uh, salt lake citychamber of commerce.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh yeah, that's right .
Yeah, and they were.
They were kind of a part of umputting on races out there and
everything.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah when ab jenkins was running, they were
all yeah, part of that.
Yeah, how the federalgovernment got a hold of it is,
who knows, state probably justgave it up for well, you know
it's a desert out there.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, I think with the Salt Lake City Chamber of
Commerce and I could be wrong,you can correct me but it kind
of started getting a littlepolitical and a little bit kind
of started to cause problems.
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
No, it could do.
I'm not saying it wouldn't,yeah't, yeah, okay.
Okay, then we're going to jumpforward.
1963 the federal governmentissues potash lease covering 24
670 acres adjacent to the racevenue.
14 miles of collection ditchallows for withdrawal of salt
brine.
That's, there's a killer rightthere as far as I'm concerned
(05:29):
about salt flats, when they letthem dig that 14 mile ditch,
that, basically, I would say wasprobably the worst thing that
could ever happen.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what ditch was that?
Which one?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It was a big 14 mile ditch that you see that they
hold sold out of and brine outof when you drive out there.
Guys were trying to kayak in itnow and all that crap.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, so in 1965, that's when the mining company
requests permission to beginpumping from the collection
ditch 1965, they started pumpingit.
Yeah, and it was still Ibelieve at the time that was
still Soldero.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Shortly after that, kaiser took over and I think
that's when, kaiser, theyabandoned the Soldero because
they had that other ditch the14-mile one.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, why do?
Just out of curiosity.
Do you know why the mines needthe ditch like that?
Like what do they do?
How does it work?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
well it, the subsurface brine from the
aquifer flows into that ditch.
Then they pump that ditch overuh, I don't know, it's probably
a percentage 18, 19, 19 percentsalt, and who knows what the pot
is.
I can never find out reallywhat you know.
Then they pump that over to thesouth side through collection
(06:53):
dishes, through pipes andeverything else, and that's when
they start their processing ofremoving potash, and the salt is
a waste product at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It still is right.
Yeah, it still is.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, it was interesting.
I think it was probably aboutthat that we started realizing
that our local group that youknow we're having problems that
it was starting to it's sort ofgoing away.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
When do you think you started noticing that?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh, I probably in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
In the 60s.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
In the 60s, yeah, as soon as they built that ditch
basically we had meetings withthe state and Kaiser and BLM and
you know you got the usual dealfrom everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Oh yeah, Run around.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
In fact, Kaiser offered us to put a track inside
the Saladero ditch.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
A track, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Which is nothing.
Yeah, wow, which is nothing.
There's no way we could haverun it.
So.
And then in the late 60s and1970s, studies undertaken by the
Geological Survey, which is theUSGS they surveyed the US
(08:00):
Geological Survey to determineextent of the salt loss at the
BSF.
They did come up with in 1960,they showed the thickness of
seven feet.
In 1960.
It dropped from 5.5 feet.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Is that at the thickest, like the thickest
place, or just where was that atWell?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
that was just in 1960 .
They drilled all over it.
The USGS probably did the mostextensive study of any person
out there.
You had the Lyons study andsome others too, but basically
they all came up with the samesituation that salt loss was
from mining and stuff.
(08:37):
Probably in the late 80s, Ithink that's when Kaiser sold it
to Riley Chemical.
Now, 1975, Bonneville SaltFlats racetrack added to the
National Historic Register,which we know.
Another thing that hurt thesalt flats, in my opinion, and a
(09:01):
lot of people, is in 1972, in1972, when they started putting
in I-80.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So I-80, the 14-mile ditch.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah.
So, sorry, go ahead, go ahead,no.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was just curious like what does it mean when it's
on the historical register?
What does that do for anything?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Well, it hasn't done anything.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I guess Right.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I guess it was a feel-good deal.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And that's a national historical.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, that's a national historic register.
You know you could put a rockon that if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It supposedly helped preserve it and stuff like that,
but we never noticed anything.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
There was no difference For preservation
preserve it and stuff like that,but we never noticed anything.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
There was no difference.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
On preservation.
So anyway, 1975 Bondo Salt Flatracetrack added to National
Register, which you just talkedabout.
In 1975, the US GeologicalSurvey and the BLM study
concluded weather cycle maypartly explain changes in the
bond of salt flat.
Okay, well, I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Good, or maybe it's more susceptible to weather
because of the mining and theloss of it.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, it could be, I mean.
But you know, let's face it,weather Right, if the wind, if
it's dry wind, blows out there,you know all sorts of stuff.
If it's dry wind blows outthere, you know all sorts of
stuff.
So, but it was the other thing.
(10:39):
Basically, on the USGS study,they indicated that brine
withdrawal is a major cause ofsalt loss from the crust, and I
think the Lyons study and someothers also prove that too.
The later studies.
I don't know why they doindicate that, but they want to
try to put a bunch of otherstuff in too.
That takes away.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And that's the later studies that have been going on.
I don't really agree with it.
And the USGS saidthey—concurrent subsurface loss
with salt in the solution wascomputed to be 850,000 tons per
year.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
That's how much they take off.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, wow, so you know .
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And I wonder if that's even increased, because
what year was that?
85, you said the geologicalstudy.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh, maybe—I don't know know you said it was
anyways.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So you know basically , uh, as as we get going um,
they decided they at one time.
There's 900,000 acre, 90,000acres uh, of salt and it has
gone down at this time is likein 1917, 1918.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh, that's when the 90,000?
.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah, they showed it.
30,000 acres of salt left.
Wait in 1918?
, no 1980.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh, 1980, 30,000.
Wow, that's, sad.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That was, and that's what you know 40 years ago, 40,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Right, yeah.
So, man, you know there's nodoubt that it's all us.
I can tell you right now,before, after they I probably
was basically after they gotthrough when they started the
pumping with Intrepid, thefive-year study, I think after
(12:26):
the third year, we went out justin.
We had a little local test inTune Well.
It was underwater at the frontend.
So we go down clear down to the10 mile and we were driving
through crunchies that were twoand a half, three inches thick
and that was at the nine and ahalf mile, 10 mile because we
were just running back a one-waytest.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So what does that mean?
What do the crunchies mean,Mike?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Well, it's when the salt gets dry, they'll pop up
and we just call them crunchies.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But they're potato chips crunchies whatever you
want to call them Good, bad,what is it?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It's just weather does it.
You know, when it gets real hotthey'll pop up and stuff.
But is that a good thing thatthey do that, or is it?
(13:18):
It's nothing?
It's nothing because it'll, youknow, but what it indicates to
us that, yeah, we did have twoand a half three inches of salt,
clear back down to the nine andten.
Oh, yeah, we understand, we'regoing to do something about it.
Well, that never has happened.
I think.
In reality, we're going to haveto do something.
You know, you've indicatedmaybe getting a.
Somebody could put a programtogether for us that we could
(13:40):
distribute out to.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's, we'll talk aboutthat.
But let's, because I do want totalk about that, but I want to
get back to the history of itand then come back to that.
But so what you had is kind oflike Intrepid took over is where
we kind of stopped on thehistory of it.
What happened after that?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Well, the Riley, we had Riley, we went first off.
Riley wanted well, we'll splitit 50-50 to do this five-year
test.
And then finally Riley saidokay, we'll take care of it.
That's when they put theculverts underneath the freeway
and everything else so theycould pump brine over.
That's all still set up.
(14:18):
That's what Intrepid uses rightnow to move their.
All they're required to do ismove the salt that is left over
when they do their process everyyear.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Which is what the BLM is supposed to do, is make sure
they put it back.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, and the last couple of years-.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Total failure.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, the last couple of years they have not done it.
And I did go to the BLM andthey said they were going to
look into it and they shouldstart pumping.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, well, should, is one thing.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
But their issues at the time.
They need to know this byOctober that they can start
pumping, and the BLM stopped thepumping for some reason because
of the Jeremiah study.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Well, let's get to that, but let's go back.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, in 1989, basically that's when we started
this we set the Save the SaltCoalition up Okay, great, yeah,
so 1989, you start Save the Salt.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And then, what's the purpose of Save the Salt?
What does it do?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
We just try to put pressure on the state, trying to
get the BLM— to, you know comeback and Mm-hmm, they know why.
We're losing the salt Right.
They just don't want to.
You know, I don't think theywant to really admit what's
really going on.
We have no idea what they.
(15:42):
You know.
They're getting some kind ofresource from the mining company
for, you know, the potashremoval.
Oh yeah, so we have no.
I can't find out what that is.
So in the 90s, you know thepotash removal.
Oh yeah, so we have no.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I can't find out what that is.
So in the 90s you start to savethe salt.
Well, and government doesn'twant to do anything unless
there's some pressure.
They won't do anything unlessthere's pressure.
But so Save the Salt starts,and that is the whole point is
to create some pressure onto thegovernment.
But you guys did get someprogress with the lay down right
(16:14):
, the lay down project.
Is that what it was?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
called.
It was a test project,five-year test project that we
did the Save the Salt.
Did you know?
Work with Riley Chemical.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
And they finally did this and I think the first two
or three years, if I canremember, they pumped over a
million tons of salt in thosethree years Back on.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What year was that what?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
year is this 1997, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Through 2001 or something like that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, it went from at that time.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
yeah, it started in 97.
Yeah.
And was there a difference?
Did you guys see a differencein the salt when they?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
oh, yeah, definitely because we were clear around on
the east side of the dike tryingto find a, find a racetrack and
basically almost five miles.
We had to put up a.
We, we, utah, salt flat risk.
Had a, a parachute stop, uhfence put up so if guy was gonna
hit for the dike he could leashit.
The only one they used was thebig diesel truck.
(17:12):
It at one time, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
The Phoenix?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
The Phoenix, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
But that's the problem.
Within the two years we wereprobably another tenth or
two-tenths of a mile to the westof where we are right now.
Okay, maybe they couldn't see atotal increase, but we got an
increase of distance.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Right Great salt distance, maybe not as depth.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, we did get depth too, but we got back to
where we could run two ways.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, Okay, so that was it was helpful.
And then what?
So that was kind of just wasthat Riley that was doing that?
Was that Riley in charge atthat time?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Who was that?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Riley Was Riley the mining company.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Riley was the mining company.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, so did they just kind of do that out of the
goodness of their own heart, orwhat was?
Why did they do that?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
From the BLM too, and the gentleman I worked with at
Riley was really good.
I was actually the only onethat could even go out into the
plant.
They wouldn't let anybody else,you know, come out.
Like I say, at first theywanted to split the program and
(18:28):
I think at the time it reallywasn't that much.
At the time I'm trying to do inmy head I think it was like
$50,000 to get their projectgoing and after that they were
just cleaning out ditches theyneeded to use for process.
So that was one of their maindeals too.
It wasn't just out of thekindness of their heart, but
(18:49):
that basically showed that itworks.
I don't give a damn whatanybody else says.
That shows that the pumpingworks.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You guys noticed a difference and then so what it
stopped?
For what reason?
Well, the Pfizer product wasover.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And right after that that's when Riley sold out to
Intrepid and you know Intrepidwas not.
There was nothing to say thatIntrepid had to pump or anything
else.
It's through the BLM contract.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And Intrepid's, who owns the mine now, yes, we're up
to where Intrepid is, so we'rekind of in the 2000s.
So I think we should probablymaybe start talking about the
salt restoration project, unlessthere's something in between
there that you wanted to mentionand SEMA, myself, SEMA's lawyer
(19:41):
, and we had somebody from theSCT.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I can't remember right now, but we met with
(20:06):
Intrepid actually out on thesalt flats on somebody's trailer
and they basically said youknow, we're in business to you.
Know this, we're in business tomine.
That was our deal.
Right and they really didn'tindicate to us that, okay, we're
going to help you out or we'regoing to, you know, and I think
that's when we finally got thedeal and you know, do a little
pressure on them.
They cleaned their two pondsthat they got there each year so
(20:28):
they can reuse it, ponds thatthey got there each year so they
can reuse it.
So sometimes they're in therepumping.
I think the best we ever sawfrom it was about 650,000 tons.
It has actually dropped backdown to about 400, 350, 400.
They didn't even do it last year, which doesn't even, no, they
haven't done it in the last twoyears.
Okay, so, and that's when, fromwhat I can understand and
(21:02):
you've looked at Jeremiah'sstudy probably more than I- have
that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, all it's going to do if you pump is it's going
to go back in the aquifer.
Fantastic, put it back in theaquifer, you know?
Yeah, I have some issues withJeremiah's study.
It kind of just said, oh well,it's going to disappear and
that's just kind of how it is.
You know, and I want to be likelook at the salt flats in
Bolivia, look at the salt flatsin Australia.
(21:24):
Are those ones disappearing,like that?
They're not.
The thickness of those ones arevery thick still and I think
they're probably all formed in asimilar way and Jeremiah's
study kind of changed the way,the concept of how it was even
formed, right, oh yeah.
You look at the USGS study youlook the lake Right.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That was solved from the lake.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Again.
The five-year pumping projectstarted in 2002.
So that's when Riley starteddoing the test pump.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, oh.
2002 is when the test pump.
Yeah, oh, 2002 is when the yeah97,.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You know it started getting everything ready in 97,
and then they got theiragreement came that yes, we will
pump.
And then they started becausethey had to.
You know they had to do a lotof work to get the brine over.
They had to have a 16-footculvert gun and a freeway and
the railroad and everything else.
So I, you know, basically,let's face it, and I think a lot
(22:38):
of people have a hard timeunderstanding that the BLM
doesn't own that land we ownthat land yes yes.
And when I went out I might bemoving a little ahead here that
you don't want to, but when Iwent out with the director, the
state director of the BLM andthen the West District manager,
(22:58):
and I basically told him well, Idon't agree with Jeremiah's
study.
I don't believe salt came fromthe mountains.
That's the case.
Why wouldn't we?
Every flatland in the worldwould have salt Down at Lake
Sevier.
Land in the world that havesalt down at Lake Sevier they're
(23:19):
starting to do mining for evenpotash and lithium.
And the gentleman that's doingthat, he also says that it's a
remnants of Lake Bonneville.
When we were out there and Iwas showing that was the first
time that state BLM had everbeen out there.
You know amazing, you know Wow,that's insane.
And we got to talking and Isays look, I know you guys are
(23:41):
leaning on Jeremiah to study.
That that's the gods.
You know whole deal that theUSGS and the other studies
didn't seem to matter.
I don't care where the saltcame from, right, whether it
came from the mountains, lakeBonneville or Mars.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I want it back.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
And if the 200,000 tons that's over there right now
needs to come back to the saltfest, right, intrepid has set up
a they're the ones that set upthe mining plan to do it.
The $50 million over 10 yearsyeah, that's what they think it
costs.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Why don't you talk about that?
So talk about what Save theSalt did when you guys were
working with the state and thefederal government.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right the state.
When we did a little blitz withthe House and the Senate for
the Utah State, they finallycame up with a $5 million deal.
They put a million out.
They said if the federalgovernment would meet, that they
would keep meeting it.
Well, the federal governmentnever came up with their money.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right.
So what happened was the statesaid we'll come up with this
amount of money to help createthe pumping project, and what
was going to happen was the minewas going to get upgraded so
that they could pump the saltback on, and the mine was on
board.
The racers were coming up withmoney, the state of Utah was
coming up with money and we wererelying on Chris Stewart, who
(25:06):
I'm very disappointed in he wasgoing to put in.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
He was on the committee.
Yeah, the committee that hecould have put in.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And he didn't.
He said he would and he didn't,he said he would and he didn't.
And then, um, then covet hitand then I'll help work loose.
But now we're back and we're.
I mean, how much did thefederal government have to come
up with?
What were you guys asking forat that time?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
they if they matched the five million dollars you're
just asking for five.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
No, you're asking for five million dollars from the
state of ut says we have this $5million, yeah aside.
And how much did the racershave?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Well, the racers at the time were required, but we
could have you know.
But you guys, it was like amillion we had to like come up
with and how I think, like I say, how the racers had come up
with the money is through SEMA,through all the people.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
We would figure a way All the manufacturers, we would
have figured out.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
If somebody knew that the project was going to go, we
could have found the money andthe federal government was going
to put in $5 million.
The state of Utah says we'llput up $5 million.
If the federal government willput up $5 million to get it
started $5 million a year.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Is that it?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
They never put up anything.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
a year Is that it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
They never put up anything.
But was that the ask?
Was the ask $5 million a year?
It was asked, yeah, to put up.
It was put to okay, the state'sgot $5 million.
They'll give it to theirproject.
Get it started if the federalgovernment puts up $5 million.
They never did Right.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Which is so crazy because it's just such a small
amount for the federalgovernment looking at what has
been, I mean just in recentevents, looking at what has been
spent on what?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And we were asking for $5 million for something
that is an.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
American treasure and a national treasure and a world
treasure and they couldn't putup $5 million.
It's disgusting.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I know it.
So anyway, basically, the statedid release a million dollars
to the state USGS and they didsome studies and part of the
Jeremiah study was part of it.
Listen, we don't need anotherstudy.
We don't need another study,it's been studied.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And to move forward.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
We don't need to do another study Like why don't we
just take that time and thatmoney and put it into the
restoration project and see ifyou guys can see the result?
That was what we were askingfor, which I think is very
reasonable.
So if we were going to do thatagain, we would have to just
start all over from scratch.
Yeah, and Celeste Malloy is thecongressman.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, and she worked for Stewart.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I know she's OK, we'll see.
We'll see how good she is.
I wonder.
But you know we have.
I noticed that Mike Lee, who isthe senator for the state of
Utah, one of the senators he ison like one of the natural
resource committees, is he not?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, and I wonder if Celeste Molloy is.
So we just basically have tostart over to get going on it
Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I think and you know I've talked about this already
you've got to forget the state,yeah, even the local state, blm
Okay, they cannot acquire anymoney to help.
We're going to have to go tosenators and congressmen of this
state.
That's why we need to put somekind of a package together, you
know, rather than just hey, weneed this.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And yeah, so we're looking into some kind of video
that we can put out.
There needs to be a meetingbecause we need to figure out a
plan of attack.
Social media is the only way todo this Right.
Social media is the only way todo this, in my opinion, I think
social media is the only way toget attention and pressure.
I think we do, as racers havemore leverage than we think.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, I'll give you a good example.
When we were trying to get the$5 million, we did a blitz to
all the senators and thecongressmen on their emails.
We did a blitz to all thesenators and the congressmen on
their emails and one of thesenators finally came up to me
and shut those emails off, andnext time we're going to say no,
it worked, you know, so itworked.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But they don't like that pressure.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
No, but it's got to go to the federal government.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Fine, and we'll pressure the federal government,
but that's the only thingthat's going to work.
Yes, because they don't want tomove, they don't want to do
anything if they don't have to.
It's just the way it works.
I think we are in a, I thinkthis is convened into a perfect
opportunity with our federalgovernment right now, because
they're clearing out all thewaste that is clearly waste of
(29:35):
money, and now there will beroom, I think, for things that
are here in the States, whichthis thing has been so neglected
, and I think there's just suchan appeal type.
Really, we have a good marketand we can make it happen.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Two things I'll come back with us on is the Jeremiah
study and what's her name withthe University of Utah yeah.
Intrepid put the study togetherto do the 10-year project and
what it would cost.
They know it works Right orthey wouldn't even.
They wouldn't even.
You know, look at it.
Sure, they're going to probablymake some money out of it and
(30:11):
help them out, but you know, ifthey put it back and if right
now and this is another thing wehaven't talked about there are
no pumping, anymore, from thenorth lease at the 14-mile ditch
.
Intrepid Steel has a lease on itbut they're going to hold the
lease because they don't wantanybody else to get a hold of
the lease, which we don't either, because somebody might come in
(30:34):
and say okay, we're going to goafter lithium, we're going to
go after everything you know,and, let's face it, the BLM
would probably go.
Oh okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, yeah, they.
They like the money coming outof it, which the whole point of
the BLM is, so that mines don'tcome in and just rape the land
and not put anything back andnot restore it.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
How the hell there was never a restoration in the
20-year pumping projects isbeyond me how that did not.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yes, the BLM has failed.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And another thing too is I brought up to the state
director.
I was showing him all the crapthat's out there and everything
else.
I told him.
I said you know what, if I wentdown to Bears Ears which a lot
of people have to realize andpicked up a rock, I'd be in jail
.
Yeah, you know, but not outhere.
Yeah.
So, and they're supposedlythey're going to put some signs
(31:27):
up, they're trying to figure outif they can legally say if you
do this, you're going to get youknow a misdemeanor or whatever.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
It hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A misdemeanor for what Burning fires on the salt
flats and all that crap you know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I mean, here's the other thing.
It's a public land.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You can't stop people and you want people to go enjoy
it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I don't.
That's another thing that Ithink has saved Save the Salt,
and especially through socialmedia, is that we need to
educate the public in terms of Iwant people to go out there, I
want them to go enjoy it.
I want other people besidesracers to love it because it's
(32:10):
an amazing place.
I'm even not against burningfires if you just got to take
this.
I mean, it's common sense andnormal practice that you take
everything out that you broughtin.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
But you know, back in the late 90s, near 2000,.
We never had that problem.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right, but this is okay.
So the reason why we have thatproblem now is because of it is
because of social media.
I think we can use that in ourfavor to save the salt.
Be like you want to go camp onthe mud or do you want to go
camp on the salt flats?
I mean, my kids are 12 and 11and they're watching YouTube
(32:45):
videos and there's all theseYouTubers that are flying in
Salt Lake, going to the saltflats, you know, even if just to
go stay out there, and I thinkthat's something that we can
really harness and use towardsour advantage to saving the salt
.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Well, one of the things I would like to racers
don't go out there when you lookat the salt and everything else
and say it looks great, it'snot great.
I don't care what you say, it'snot great yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And another thing too , I just and I this is just like
my own PSA is that people getout there and they don't know
that you can't like to go dodonuts.
If I was not raised out thereand didn't know anything about
the salt, I would be like, yeah,like donuts seem fine to go do
out there, and the last thingyou need is a bunch of racers
hopping on there and just beingcomplete assholes to them about
(33:33):
it.
You know, like I can say likehey, you need to respect that.
But I've just seen commentswhere I'm like, oh, that does
not look good, yeah, and peopledon't know because why don't
they know?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
because there's no signs, there's nothing out there
that says that supposedly theblm is looking at doing and
putting a sign up right now.
Another thing I'll tell you alittle story.
Uh, dennis and I, we were bothout there and we seen this gal.
She was out on a four-wheeler.
She's right just past the startline just spinning donuts like
(34:05):
mad, and they were from Florida,just passing through.
And when she come back in, Itold Dennis, I'm just going to
talk to Dennis, maybe youshouldn't.
No, no, oh, I take it back.
It wasn't in, it was Dallas.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Oh, Dallas, Because we took the trailers out.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So I go over to her and I says you know where you're
spending donuts and stuff.
Guys are running 200 and 300miles an hour and you know
you're affecting the track andstuff.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And she's probably like oh no, I'm so sorry you
know.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
No, she says well, there's nothing, says I can't
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
But I think some people would be like oh, I
didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And I think people would generally respect that
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, and she's right , there's nothing tells her she
can't go out there and do that.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right you know.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I mean it's, and I'm working I'm working with the BLM
to try to get that.
So is Dennis Sullivan.
We're trying to get something.
That's a warning that you knowwhat goes on here.
There was a deal coming out ofthe Supreme Court.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that we could not, at
the time, stop anybody fromcoming out while we're racing.
Yeah, they can go anywhere theywant.
(35:09):
They could drive right in themiddle of the track while some
guy's running.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Because you can go on public land you can't stop
people from going on public land, which I I'm totally for.
But that did change right likethat.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, we they got a yeah.
And there's one thing I'll sayfor a mike at the blm he did a
great job getting they.
They fought like mad to getthat good because I think they
finally realize that you know,hey, you're putting people in
danger like no, it would bedefinitely it would affect the
lake bed too, you know, hey,you're putting people in danger?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Like no, it would be, definitely it would affect the
lake bed too.
Oh yeah, I know I feel likewhen that happened in 2020, when
COVID hit and that didn't gothrough, I think the wind out of
the sails was really taking outfor a little bit.
But, I think we're just in sucha prime spot to strike for Save
the Salt.
I think we can get.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I think we can get it done.
So I like you and I think youridea is great that we need to
get whatever a company that canput a program together for us,
and I agree, get on social mediaTikTok.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, because, like I mean, I even had a, one of
those pinup girls that were outthere contact me and say, hey,
if there's something that I cando on my end to help, like you
know, through social media orthrough the events that she's
doing, she's like I, she justloved it out there and she wants
to.
You know, there's this, thisdesire to to help with help.
(36:35):
So, yeah, we have the, we havethe, the social media people
that, um, people that arewilling to help, or you know, uh
, I don't know, I, I think wecan.
Yeah, I think we're in a spot.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
You know, we we do have a Save Us All Coalition
which, uh, I know I'd like toget you on that board.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Um, but we need to wake that thing up again,
regardless of you know.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
And I think we need to have a clear message.
Like, there's a lot ofinformation on Save the Salt and
it's detailed and I thinkthat's great, but you need to
have like just a concise pointof why are we saving the salt?
Yeah, what is the purpose?
And I think you can actuallyeven to different groups.
You can have a differentmessage.
And oh, maybe the people thatmake movies, that group has a
(37:24):
reason why to say they want it.
And the social media peoplewill have a reason they want to
save it and the racers have areason they want to save it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
And another thing we've and I think we got to.
There's a lot to deal about.
Well, you know, racing is a bigpart of out there, but that
can't be the thing you're goingafter, because some people don't
care about racing.
Why do we care about the racenow?
So you've got to look at.
I mean, there's weddingpictures taken out there Exactly
.
There's commercials.
(37:52):
There's a lot of stuff going on, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I agree, it's the only salt flats that's super
accessible.
There's three salt flats in thewhole world, yep, and one's
right here and it's veryaccessible and easy to get to
and it's worth saving.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Hopefully with the new administration and the
people we've got right nowcenter lee and and carmerson
owens, and you know some ofthose that I think that, but we
have to put a program together.
Right, we just can't walk away.
Can you help?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
yeah, yeah.
So I think there needs there'sa lot of.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
There's a lot of film .
There's a lot of good stuffclear back in the 50s that show
things were happening.
You got to put all thatconglomerate together, make a
video Like a 10 minute.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
So if anybody's out there that knows how to do a
video together.
We need something.
We need some help with socialmedia.
And even like let's start goingon podcasts of different groups
that it would appeal to.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Well, you take the Wild Horse Organization.
They sued the federalgovernment and they get $80
million a year to take care ofwild horses.
$80 million a year.
Do we look at that situation?
Do we go after, you know, forthe BLM for not taking care of,
(39:18):
you know, a natural resourcethat we got out there?
Yeah, you know, let's face it,mother Nature's not making
another one.
Yeah, so I have no problem withthe mining If they would have
put in there you put it backwhen you take off.
At least that much you know.
Whatever's left over needs togo back on the flat.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
The restoration of it .
What's left on that lease?
How much?
When did they sign that lease?
Well, it's a 20-year deal, butwhen did they sign that?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
And if they haven't done anything wrong, they just
automatically got to be renewed,okay, so?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
when is it renewed?
Well, we can find out, okay.
Is it renewed?
Well, we can find out, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You just got to go to the BLM and check with them and
stuff.
So when it's due again, yeah,but we still need the mining
company to help us get this done.
Right, right, we need them.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So I mean, the mining is part of the problem, but
they are part of the solutionnow too.
So we need them in terms ofbeing the solution.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, I mean the sad part about this.
This all started back in the50s and 60s and supposedly all
the money that came off of themining into the BLM was supposed
to go back into saltrestoration.
It goes back in the generalfund.
We've never seen any of it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, that salt coalition, what is it?
What is the difference betweenSave the Salt and the Save the
Salt Coalition?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Well, basically, the Save the Salt Coalition, that's
what we call it.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Then you have the I think they call it the Salt
Flats Coalition.
That's just a local group thatwe put together.
I mean we should just bring itall back to save the salt.
Well, it's all going to cometogether.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, it needs to just be all one group.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because it gets confusing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think we do have finances in the Save the Salt
budget that we could put towards.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Social marketing, social marketing, stuff like
that.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
You need to.
That's what I say, and I needto.
That's what I say.
And I need to get back withStuart, although he's retired.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Tell us who Stuart is .
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Stuart Goswine was the legal person back in
Washington DC for the SEMA andhe's had a real interest even
now, although SEMA is also stillgiving him the he can, yes,
work on the salt flats.
So SEMA is still involvedSomewhat.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
They've backed out a little bit.
I mean, but if we had a, therewas a major plan.
I think we had a major dealgoing?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, they would.
You would need them to go tomanufacturers to help.
Okay, you know, you got AMA andI think we got to put some kind
of a program together to showeverybody that, okay, you're
with this, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think so too.
I think we need to get workingon that.
If anybody out there knows anykind of social media, or we need
to get a video put together,some videos put together to put
on social media, I mean we couldstart working on it.
I think we could make it happen.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, we can.
Even there's got to be peoplehere in Salt Lake City that do
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
We got to sort of research that and see if we can
find.
Yeah, and, like I say, we dohave funds in Save the Salt.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Like to afford that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
To do this, but we'd have to get the you know all the
boards to say, okay, yeah,we're on board with you know,
let's do this.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, well, I like it .
What else do you think?
I have a lot of differentthoughts on things, but I think
we've touched is the way to goand, in terms of getting the
word out and saving the saltwith our message, I think
(42:57):
there's a lot of communitiesthat would be interested in it,
including the hot rod community,the racing community, the film
community, the social mediacommunity.
We have all of these, theseoptions.
I don't know, even like theschools in Utah, like just
starting to, I don't know.
I think there could be even aprogram there, where you're.
(43:19):
When I interview people I hearso many people talk about oh,
the first time I heard about theSalt Flats was in school.
I read this book or they showedthis video and like maybe you
know that's the future, is those?
people so maybe start there, butI think social media would help
with that, because you havethat's where they're at.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know, maybe we could get somebody like from BYU
or the University of Utah thatdoes you know, studying to do
that kind of stuff, that couldyou know, put something together
for us.
It's, you know.
Studying to do that kind ofstuff, that could you know, put
something together for us.
It's, you know, we got to.
Just I mean, let's face it, I'm84 years old and I've been
chasing this clear through thesixties and been lied to forever
, Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, they'll, they'll lie to you and you just
gotta I think you just gotta putthe screws to them in terms of
the pressure and that that iswhat.
So I think there will be timesfor call of action when we're
like, hey, you know, send outthere, get your, call your
senators and call yourcongressmen, but I think we need
to get our yeah we'll getthings together and we're going
(44:24):
to save this.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
We need to have something prepared that they can
use.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
No, I agree, we just got to organize.
At this point we're kind of itkind of put us on our heels the
last blow, and I just think weneed to regain our footing, get
after it.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I mean, let's face it , our family and we've been
involved with this stuff for,you know, forever.
It seems like to me.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
How many years do you think we have if it didn't
happen to to race I?
Speaker 3 (44:53):
you know that you had to just like guess.
I mean, I would say, if nothingelse happened, maybe five, six
years.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, you know I mean it's yeah I mean to show.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I mean I got in in 1975 into the 200-mile-an-hour
club.
I was the 135th member in aclub that's got over 800 members
now and we even noticed it backthen.
That's when we started a localgroup here.
Just, you know, we got lied toall the time by the BLM and
(45:26):
everybody, and even Kaiser atthe time.
You know, yeah, we're going todo something Well, and we're
stupid old racers.
We just said, okay, well, goodThanks.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Well, you're honest and so you think other people
are going to be honest, and justpolitics, it's all politics and
it's.
But we can.
We can get.
We can get down and dirty withthem if we have to and make it
happen.
I am so positive about this.
Listen, the Salt Flats isalready all over social media.
(45:56):
It's already out there, and ifpeople just knew it was in
danger of being gone.
I just think we have the upperhand.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We just need to use it.
We have the leverage.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We need to use it, Okay.
Well, that's where we're at andwe're just we're waiting to
kind of gather everything, andthen we're going to, we're going
to get after it.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah, everybody out there.
You know we're going to chaseit.
This is our last.
This is our last chance yeah.
Yeah, we can't get it done now.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
We're in trouble yeah we can't get it done now we're
in trouble.
We're getting it done.
Okay, thanks, Dad.
Thanks for listening to.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Land Speed Legends.
Make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss any future episodes.
In the meantime, keep up withthe show on Facebook and
Instagram under Land SpeedLegends.
Until next time.
Welcome to Landspeed Legends, a podcast talking to
the men, the women, the legendsthat make land speed racing
great.
Discover the stories of theseordinary people whose passion
for land speed racing has madethem legendary.
And now here's your host theBonneville Belle, the High Boy,
(00:23):
honey, the salt princess, alisonVolk-Dean.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Today we have the legendary Larry Volk and we're
doing something very differentthan normal.
We're not just going to talkabout their his story but this
is part of his story but we'rereally going to talk about Save
the Salt and what is going onwith it.
We're going to go through thehistory of it and bring us all
(00:53):
the way up to the current timesand what needs to be done.
So, yeah, go for it, dad, let'shear what you have to.
Where would we start if we weretalking about Save the Salt?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, I'm going to start back in 1970, 17,.
Potash mining begins, okay, in1970, 1918, brian Collection
Dish dug at the Salt Daryl Loopand that's the.
The soldero mining companypulled um brine from that.
(01:27):
That ditch.
Okay, that was the start ofremoving salt and brine from the
salt flats.
So they're mining.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Okay, so they just started with salt and brine.
It wasn't potash at that point.
Yeah, they were after potashokay, yeah tell us what potash
is and what it's for and whyPotash it's been used for it's a
fertilizer.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Also, it's been used to do weapons, and that
basically was back in that timeduring the First World War.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
That's why they were after.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
The potash was more for military than it was for for
, yeah, for civilian type use,and so it is a potash is.
I mean it's an importantproduct.
We need that potash.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, definitely it is.
But one of the things when theydid the Saladero do and they
dug the Saladero loop they putif everybody notices the dike is
on the racetrack side, it wouldhave been great if they'd have
put it on the salderos at theinside dike then we wouldn't see
that.
You know wash of the dirt goingonto the racetrack.
(02:38):
Through the years that dike hasshrunk a lot from when they
first, even when I first wentout there in the 50s.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so 1918, what was the company that was doing
that you said?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Salt Arrow.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Salt Arrow Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
That was one of the first mining companies.
There was probably some beforethat, but I haven't found out
who it was or if they were readyto do anything that big and
they don't do anything with thesalt, it's just a pure byproduct
.
At that point in time I can'ttell you if they did or didn't
Okay.
Then between 1919 and 1925 iswhen they put the Highway 40
(03:16):
through, which came from SaltLake and headed towards Reno
through Wendover.
That had a little effect on thesalt flats too, because it
basically cut the north sidefrom the south side.
Okay, the salt flats wasactually huge before that.
The railroad did go through tooat that same time, pretty much
(03:36):
at that same time.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And that was really the only way to get out there
before the highway.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that was the only way until they got the
highway out.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And that was 40, it wasn't I-80 yet.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, it was Highway 40.
Yeah, it was a two lane.
It was a death trap Becausewe've traveled it many times.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
when my dad worked out in Wendover, Sorry, what
year did that go in, did you say?
I didn't hear.
I know you said it, but Between1919 and 1925.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Okay, okay, then we'll move on a few years.
In 1946, the US Bureau of LandManagement became the BSF
custodian, so they became thecustodian of the Salt Flats at
that time.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
The BLM did.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes.
Ok, and before that it was just, it was state ran did yes, okay
, and before that it was just oh, it was state ran yeah, it was
actually, uh, salt lake citychamber of commerce.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh yeah, that's right .
Yeah, and they were.
They were kind of a part of umputting on races out there and
everything.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah when ab jenkins was running, they were
all yeah, part of that.
Yeah, how the federalgovernment got a hold of it is,
who knows, state probably justgave it up for well, you know
it's a desert out there.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, I think with the Salt Lake City Chamber of
Commerce and I could be wrong,you can correct me but it kind
of started getting a littlepolitical and a little bit kind
of started to cause problems.
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
No, it could do.
I'm not saying it wouldn't,yeah't, yeah, okay.
Okay, then we're going to jumpforward.
1963 the federal governmentissues potash lease covering 24
670 acres adjacent to the racevenue.
14 miles of collection ditchallows for withdrawal of salt
brine.
That's, there's a killer rightthere as far as I'm concerned
(05:29):
about salt flats, when they letthem dig that 14 mile ditch,
that, basically, I would say wasprobably the worst thing that
could ever happen.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what ditch was that?
Which one?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It was a big 14 mile ditch that you see that they
hold sold out of and brine outof when you drive out there.
Guys were trying to kayak in itnow and all that crap.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, so in 1965, that's when the mining company
requests permission to beginpumping from the collection
ditch 1965, they started pumpingit.
Yeah, and it was still Ibelieve at the time that was
still Soldero.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Shortly after that, kaiser took over and I think
that's when, kaiser, theyabandoned the Soldero because
they had that other ditch the14-mile one.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, why do?
Just out of curiosity.
Do you know why the mines needthe ditch like that?
Like what do they do?
How does it work?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
well it, the subsurface brine from the
aquifer flows into that ditch.
Then they pump that ditch overuh, I don't know, it's probably
a percentage 18, 19, 19 percentsalt, and who knows what the pot
is.
I can never find out reallywhat you know.
Then they pump that over to thesouth side through collection
(06:53):
dishes, through pipes andeverything else, and that's when
they start their processing ofremoving potash, and the salt is
a waste product at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It still is right.
Yeah, it still is.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, it was interesting.
I think it was probably aboutthat that we started realizing
that our local group that youknow we're having problems that
it was starting to it's sort ofgoing away.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
When do you think you started noticing that?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh, I probably in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
In the 60s.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
In the 60s, yeah, as soon as they built that ditch
basically we had meetings withthe state and Kaiser and BLM and
you know you got the usual dealfrom everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Oh yeah, Run around.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
In fact, Kaiser offered us to put a track inside
the Saladero ditch.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
A track, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Which is nothing.
Yeah, wow, which is nothing.
There's no way we could haverun it.
So.
And then in the late 60s and1970s, studies undertaken by the
Geological Survey, which is theUSGS they surveyed the US
(08:00):
Geological Survey to determineextent of the salt loss at the
BSF.
They did come up with in 1960,they showed the thickness of
seven feet.
In 1960.
It dropped from 5.5 feet.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Is that at the thickest, like the thickest
place, or just where was that atWell?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
that was just in 1960 .
They drilled all over it.
The USGS probably did the mostextensive study of any person
out there.
You had the Lyons study andsome others too, but basically
they all came up with the samesituation that salt loss was
from mining and stuff.
(08:37):
Probably in the late 80s, Ithink that's when Kaiser sold it
to Riley Chemical.
Now, 1975, Bonneville SaltFlats racetrack added to the
National Historic Register,which we know.
Another thing that hurt thesalt flats, in my opinion, and a
(09:01):
lot of people, is in 1972, in1972, when they started putting
in I-80.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So I-80, the 14-mile ditch.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah.
So, sorry, go ahead, go ahead,no.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was just curious like what does it mean when it's
on the historical register?
What does that do for anything?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Well, it hasn't done anything.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I guess Right.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I guess it was a feel-good deal.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And that's a national historical.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, that's a national historic register.
You know you could put a rockon that if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It supposedly helped preserve it and stuff like that,
but we never noticed anything.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
There was no difference For preservation
preserve it and stuff like that,but we never noticed anything.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
There was no difference.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
On preservation.
So anyway, 1975 Bondo Salt Flatracetrack added to National
Register, which you just talkedabout.
In 1975, the US GeologicalSurvey and the BLM study
concluded weather cycle maypartly explain changes in the
bond of salt flat.
Okay, well, I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Good, or maybe it's more susceptible to weather
because of the mining and theloss of it.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, it could be, I mean.
But you know, let's face it,weather Right, if the wind, if
it's dry wind, blows out there,you know all sorts of stuff.
If it's dry wind blows outthere, you know all sorts of
stuff.
So, but it was the other thing.
(10:39):
Basically, on the USGS study,they indicated that brine
withdrawal is a major cause ofsalt loss from the crust, and I
think the Lyons study and someothers also prove that too.
The later studies.
I don't know why they doindicate that, but they want to
try to put a bunch of otherstuff in too.
That takes away.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And that's the later studies that have been going on.
I don't really agree with it.
And the USGS saidthey—concurrent subsurface loss
with salt in the solution wascomputed to be 850,000 tons per
year.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
That's how much they take off.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, wow, so you know .
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And I wonder if that's even increased, because
what year was that?
85, you said the geologicalstudy.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh, maybe—I don't know know you said it was
anyways.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So you know basically , uh, as as we get going um,
they decided they at one time.
There's 900,000 acre, 90,000acres uh, of salt and it has
gone down at this time is likein 1917, 1918.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh, that's when the 90,000?
.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah, they showed it.
30,000 acres of salt left.
Wait in 1918?
, no 1980.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh, 1980, 30,000.
Wow, that's, sad.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That was, and that's what you know 40 years ago, 40,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Right, yeah.
So, man, you know there's nodoubt that it's all us.
I can tell you right now,before, after they I probably
was basically after they gotthrough when they started the
pumping with Intrepid, thefive-year study, I think after
(12:26):
the third year, we went out justin.
We had a little local test inTune Well.
It was underwater at the frontend.
So we go down clear down to the10 mile and we were driving
through crunchies that were twoand a half, three inches thick
and that was at the nine and ahalf mile, 10 mile because we
were just running back a one-waytest.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So what does that mean?
What do the crunchies mean,Mike?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Well, it's when the salt gets dry, they'll pop up
and we just call them crunchies.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But they're potato chips crunchies whatever you
want to call them Good, bad,what is it?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It's just weather does it.
You know, when it gets real hotthey'll pop up and stuff.
But is that a good thing thatthey do that, or is it?
(13:18):
It's nothing?
It's nothing because it'll, youknow, but what it indicates to
us that, yeah, we did have twoand a half three inches of salt,
clear back down to the nine andten.
Oh, yeah, we understand, we'regoing to do something about it.
Well, that never has happened.
I think.
In reality, we're going to haveto do something.
You know, you've indicatedmaybe getting a.
Somebody could put a programtogether for us that we could
(13:40):
distribute out to.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's, we'll talk aboutthat.
But let's, because I do want totalk about that, but I want to
get back to the history of itand then come back to that.
But so what you had is kind oflike Intrepid took over is where
we kind of stopped on thehistory of it.
What happened after that?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Well, the Riley, we had Riley, we went first off.
Riley wanted well, we'll splitit 50-50 to do this five-year
test.
And then finally Riley saidokay, we'll take care of it.
That's when they put theculverts underneath the freeway
and everything else so theycould pump brine over.
That's all still set up.
(14:18):
That's what Intrepid uses rightnow to move their.
All they're required to do ismove the salt that is left over
when they do their process everyyear.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Which is what the BLM is supposed to do, is make sure
they put it back.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, and the last couple of years-.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Total failure.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, the last couple of years they have not done it.
And I did go to the BLM andthey said they were going to
look into it and they shouldstart pumping.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, well, should, is one thing.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
But their issues at the time.
They need to know this byOctober that they can start
pumping, and the BLM stopped thepumping for some reason because
of the Jeremiah study.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Well, let's get to that, but let's go back.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Well, in 1989, basically that's when we started
this we set the Save the SaltCoalition up Okay, great, yeah,
so 1989, you start Save the Salt.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And then, what's the purpose of Save the Salt?
What does it do?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
We just try to put pressure on the state, trying to
get the BLM— to, you know comeback and Mm-hmm, they know why.
We're losing the salt Right.
They just don't want to.
You know, I don't think theywant to really admit what's
really going on.
We have no idea what they.
(15:42):
You know.
They're getting some kind ofresource from the mining company
for, you know, the potashremoval.
Oh yeah, so we have no.
I can't find out what that is.
So in the 90s, you know thepotash removal.
Oh yeah, so we have no.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I can't find out what that is.
So in the 90s you start to savethe salt.
Well, and government doesn'twant to do anything unless
there's some pressure.
They won't do anything unlessthere's pressure.
But so Save the Salt starts,and that is the whole point is
to create some pressure onto thegovernment.
But you guys did get someprogress with the lay down right
(16:14):
, the lay down project.
Is that what it was?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
called.
It was a test project,five-year test project that we
did the Save the Salt.
Did you know?
Work with Riley Chemical.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
And they finally did this and I think the first two
or three years, if I canremember, they pumped over a
million tons of salt in thosethree years Back on.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
What year was that what?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
year is this 1997, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Through 2001 or something like that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, it went from at that time.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
yeah, it started in 97.
Yeah.
And was there a difference?
Did you guys see a differencein the salt when they?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
oh, yeah, definitely because we were clear around on
the east side of the dike tryingto find a, find a racetrack and
basically almost five miles.
We had to put up a.
We, we, utah, salt flat risk.
Had a, a parachute stop, uhfence put up so if guy was gonna
hit for the dike he could leashit.
The only one they used was thebig diesel truck.
(17:12):
It at one time, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
The Phoenix?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
The Phoenix, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
But that's the problem.
Within the two years we wereprobably another tenth or
two-tenths of a mile to the westof where we are right now.
Okay, maybe they couldn't see atotal increase, but we got an
increase of distance.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Right Great salt distance, maybe not as depth.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, we did get depth too, but we got back to
where we could run two ways.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, Okay, so that was it was helpful.
And then what?
So that was kind of just wasthat Riley that was doing that?
Was that Riley in charge atthat time?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Who was that?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Riley Was Riley the mining company.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Riley was the mining company.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, so did they just kind of do that out of the
goodness of their own heart, orwhat was?
Why did they do that?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
From the BLM too, and the gentleman I worked with at
Riley was really good.
I was actually the only onethat could even go out into the
plant.
They wouldn't let anybody else,you know, come out.
Like I say, at first theywanted to split the program and
(18:28):
I think at the time it reallywasn't that much.
At the time I'm trying to do inmy head I think it was like
$50,000 to get their projectgoing and after that they were
just cleaning out ditches theyneeded to use for process.
So that was one of their maindeals too.
It wasn't just out of thekindness of their heart, but
(18:49):
that basically showed that itworks.
I don't give a damn whatanybody else says.
That shows that the pumpingworks.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You guys noticed a difference and then so what it
stopped?
For what reason?
Well, the Pfizer product wasover.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And right after that that's when Riley sold out to
Intrepid and you know Intrepidwas not.
There was nothing to say thatIntrepid had to pump or anything
else.
It's through the BLM contract.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And Intrepid's, who owns the mine now, yes, we're up
to where Intrepid is, so we'rekind of in the 2000s.
So I think we should probablymaybe start talking about the
salt restoration project, unlessthere's something in between
there that you wanted to mentionand SEMA, myself, SEMA's lawyer
(19:41):
, and we had somebody from theSCT.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I can't remember right now, but we met with
(20:06):
Intrepid actually out on thesalt flats on somebody's trailer
and they basically said youknow, we're in business to you.
Know this, we're in business tomine.
That was our deal.
Right and they really didn'tindicate to us that, okay, we're
going to help you out or we'regoing to, you know, and I think
that's when we finally got thedeal and you know, do a little
pressure on them.
They cleaned their two pondsthat they got there each year so
(20:28):
they can reuse it, ponds thatthey got there each year so they
can reuse it.
So sometimes they're in therepumping.
I think the best we ever sawfrom it was about 650,000 tons.
It has actually dropped backdown to about 400, 350, 400.
They didn't even do it last year, which doesn't even, no, they
haven't done it in the last twoyears.
Okay, so, and that's when, fromwhat I can understand and
(21:02):
you've looked at Jeremiah'sstudy probably more than I- have
that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, all it's going to do if you pump is it's going
to go back in the aquifer.
Fantastic, put it back in theaquifer, you know?
Yeah, I have some issues withJeremiah's study.
It kind of just said, oh well,it's going to disappear and
that's just kind of how it is.
You know, and I want to be likelook at the salt flats in
Bolivia, look at the salt flatsin Australia.
(21:24):
Are those ones disappearing,like that?
They're not.
The thickness of those ones arevery thick still and I think
they're probably all formed in asimilar way and Jeremiah's
study kind of changed the way,the concept of how it was even
formed, right, oh yeah.
You look at the USGS study youlook the lake Right.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That was solved from the lake.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Again.
The five-year pumping projectstarted in 2002.
So that's when Riley starteddoing the test pump.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, oh.
2002 is when the test pump.
Yeah, oh, 2002 is when the yeah97,.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You know it started getting everything ready in 97,
and then they got theiragreement came that yes, we will
pump.
And then they started becausethey had to.
You know they had to do a lotof work to get the brine over.
They had to have a 16-footculvert gun and a freeway and
the railroad and everything else.
So I, you know, basically,let's face it, and I think a lot
(22:38):
of people have a hard timeunderstanding that the BLM
doesn't own that land we ownthat land yes yes.
And when I went out I might bemoving a little ahead here that
you don't want to, but when Iwent out with the director, the
state director of the BLM andthen the West District manager,
(22:58):
and I basically told him well, Idon't agree with Jeremiah's
study.
I don't believe salt came fromthe mountains.
That's the case.
Why wouldn't we?
Every flatland in the worldwould have salt Down at Lake
Sevier.
Land in the world that havesalt down at Lake Sevier they're
(23:19):
starting to do mining for evenpotash and lithium.
And the gentleman that's doingthat, he also says that it's a
remnants of Lake Bonneville.
When we were out there and Iwas showing that was the first
time that state BLM had everbeen out there.
You know amazing, you know Wow,that's insane.
And we got to talking and Isays look, I know you guys are
(23:41):
leaning on Jeremiah to study.
That that's the gods.
You know whole deal that theUSGS and the other studies
didn't seem to matter.
I don't care where the saltcame from, right, whether it
came from the mountains, lakeBonneville or Mars.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I want it back.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
And if the 200,000 tons that's over there right now
needs to come back to the saltfest, right, intrepid has set up
a they're the ones that set upthe mining plan to do it.
The $50 million over 10 yearsyeah, that's what they think it
costs.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Why don't you talk about that?
So talk about what Save theSalt did when you guys were
working with the state and thefederal government.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right the state.
When we did a little blitz withthe House and the Senate for
the Utah State, they finallycame up with a $5 million deal.
They put a million out.
They said if the federalgovernment would meet, that they
would keep meeting it.
Well, the federal governmentnever came up with their money.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right.
So what happened was the statesaid we'll come up with this
amount of money to help createthe pumping project, and what
was going to happen was the minewas going to get upgraded so
that they could pump the saltback on, and the mine was on
board.
The racers were coming up withmoney, the state of Utah was
coming up with money and we wererelying on Chris Stewart, who
(25:06):
I'm very disappointed in he wasgoing to put in.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
He was on the committee.
Yeah, the committee that hecould have put in.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And he didn't.
He said he would and he didn't,he said he would and he didn't.
And then, um, then covet hitand then I'll help work loose.
But now we're back and we're.
I mean, how much did thefederal government have to come
up with?
What were you guys asking forat that time?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
they if they matched the five million dollars you're
just asking for five.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
No, you're asking for five million dollars from the
state of ut says we have this $5million, yeah aside.
And how much did the racershave?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Well, the racers at the time were required, but we
could have you know.
But you guys, it was like amillion we had to like come up
with and how I think, like I say, how the racers had come up
with the money is through SEMA,through all the people.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
We would figure a way All the manufacturers, we would
have figured out.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
If somebody knew that the project was going to go, we
could have found the money andthe federal government was going
to put in $5 million.
The state of Utah says we'llput up $5 million.
If the federal government willput up $5 million to get it
started $5 million a year.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Is that it?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
They never put up anything.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
a year Is that it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
They never put up anything.
But was that the ask?
Was the ask $5 million a year?
It was asked, yeah, to put up.
It was put to okay, the state'sgot $5 million.
They'll give it to theirproject.
Get it started if the federalgovernment puts up $5 million.
They never did Right.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Which is so crazy because it's just such a small
amount for the federalgovernment looking at what has
been, I mean just in recentevents, looking at what has been
spent on what?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
And we were asking for $5 million for something
that is an.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
American treasure and a national treasure and a world
treasure and they couldn't putup $5 million.
It's disgusting.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I know it.
So anyway, basically, the statedid release a million dollars
to the state USGS and they didsome studies and part of the
Jeremiah study was part of it.
Listen, we don't need anotherstudy.
We don't need another study,it's been studied.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And to move forward.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
We don't need to do another study Like why don't we
just take that time and thatmoney and put it into the
restoration project and see ifyou guys can see the result?
That was what we were askingfor, which I think is very
reasonable.
So if we were going to do thatagain, we would have to just
start all over from scratch.
Yeah, and Celeste Malloy is thecongressman.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, and she worked for Stewart.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I know she's OK, we'll see.
We'll see how good she is.
I wonder.
But you know we have.
I noticed that Mike Lee, who isthe senator for the state of
Utah, one of the senators he ison like one of the natural
resource committees, is he not?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, and I wonder if Celeste Molloy is.
So we just basically have tostart over to get going on it
Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I think and you know I've talked about this already
you've got to forget the state,yeah, even the local state, blm
Okay, they cannot acquire anymoney to help.
We're going to have to go tosenators and congressmen of this
state.
That's why we need to put somekind of a package together, you
know, rather than just hey, weneed this.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And yeah, so we're looking into some kind of video
that we can put out.
There needs to be a meetingbecause we need to figure out a
plan of attack.
Social media is the only way todo this Right.
Social media is the only way todo this, in my opinion, I think
social media is the only way toget attention and pressure.
I think we do, as racers havemore leverage than we think.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, I'll give you a good example.
When we were trying to get the$5 million, we did a blitz to
all the senators and thecongressmen on their emails.
We did a blitz to all thesenators and the congressmen on
their emails and one of thesenators finally came up to me
and shut those emails off, andnext time we're going to say no,
it worked, you know, so itworked.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But they don't like that pressure.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
No, but it's got to go to the federal government.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Fine, and we'll pressure the federal government,
but that's the only thingthat's going to work.
Yes, because they don't want tomove, they don't want to do
anything if they don't have to.
It's just the way it works.
I think we are in a, I thinkthis is convened into a perfect
opportunity with our federalgovernment right now, because
they're clearing out all thewaste that is clearly waste of
(29:35):
money, and now there will beroom, I think, for things that
are here in the States, whichthis thing has been so neglected
, and I think there's just suchan appeal type.
Really, we have a good marketand we can make it happen.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Two things I'll come back with us on is the Jeremiah
study and what's her name withthe University of Utah yeah.
Intrepid put the study togetherto do the 10-year project and
what it would cost.
They know it works Right orthey wouldn't even.
They wouldn't even.
You know, look at it.
Sure, they're going to probablymake some money out of it and
(30:11):
help them out, but you know, ifthey put it back and if right
now and this is another thing wehaven't talked about there are
no pumping, anymore, from thenorth lease at the 14-mile ditch
.
Intrepid Steel has a lease on itbut they're going to hold the
lease because they don't wantanybody else to get a hold of
the lease, which we don't either, because somebody might come in
(30:34):
and say okay, we're going to goafter lithium, we're going to
go after everything you know,and, let's face it, the BLM
would probably go.
Oh okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
No, yeah, they.
They like the money coming outof it, which the whole point of
the BLM is, so that mines don'tcome in and just rape the land
and not put anything back andnot restore it.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
How the hell there was never a restoration in the
20-year pumping projects isbeyond me how that did not.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yes, the BLM has failed.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And another thing too is I brought up to the state
director.
I was showing him all the crapthat's out there and everything
else.
I told him.
I said you know what, if I wentdown to Bears Ears which a lot
of people have to realize andpicked up a rock, I'd be in jail
.
Yeah, you know, but not outhere.
Yeah.
So, and they're supposedlythey're going to put some signs
(31:27):
up, they're trying to figure outif they can legally say if you
do this, you're going to get youknow a misdemeanor or whatever.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
It hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A misdemeanor for what Burning fires on the salt
flats and all that crap you know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I mean, here's the other thing.
It's a public land.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You can't stop people and you want people to go enjoy
it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I don't.
That's another thing that Ithink has saved Save the Salt,
and especially through socialmedia, is that we need to
educate the public in terms of Iwant people to go out there, I
want them to go enjoy it.
I want other people besidesracers to love it because it's
(32:10):
an amazing place.
I'm even not against burningfires if you just got to take
this.
I mean, it's common sense andnormal practice that you take
everything out that you broughtin.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
But you know, back in the late 90s, near 2000,.
We never had that problem.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right, but this is okay.
So the reason why we have thatproblem now is because of it is
because of social media.
I think we can use that in ourfavor to save the salt.
Be like you want to go camp onthe mud or do you want to go
camp on the salt flats?
I mean, my kids are 12 and 11and they're watching YouTube
(32:45):
videos and there's all theseYouTubers that are flying in
Salt Lake, going to the saltflats, you know, even if just to
go stay out there, and I thinkthat's something that we can
really harness and use towardsour advantage to saving the salt
.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Well, one of the things I would like to racers
don't go out there when you lookat the salt and everything else
and say it looks great, it'snot great.
I don't care what you say, it'snot great yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And another thing too , I just and I this is just like
my own PSA is that people getout there and they don't know
that you can't like to go dodonuts.
If I was not raised out thereand didn't know anything about
the salt, I would be like, yeah,like donuts seem fine to go do
out there, and the last thingyou need is a bunch of racers
hopping on there and just beingcomplete assholes to them about
(33:33):
it.
You know, like I can say likehey, you need to respect that.
But I've just seen commentswhere I'm like, oh, that does
not look good, yeah, and peopledon't know because why don't
they know?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
because there's no signs, there's nothing out there
that says that supposedly theblm is looking at doing and
putting a sign up right now.
Another thing I'll tell you alittle story.
Uh, dennis and I, we were bothout there and we seen this gal.
She was out on a four-wheeler.
She's right just past the startline just spinning donuts like
(34:05):
mad, and they were from Florida,just passing through.
And when she come back in, Itold Dennis, I'm just going to
talk to Dennis, maybe youshouldn't.
No, no, oh, I take it back.
It wasn't in, it was Dallas.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Oh, Dallas, Because we took the trailers out.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So I go over to her and I says you know where you're
spending donuts and stuff.
Guys are running 200 and 300miles an hour and you know
you're affecting the track andstuff.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And she's probably like oh no, I'm so sorry you
know.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
No, she says well, there's nothing, says I can't
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
But I think some people would be like oh, I
didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And I think people would generally respect that
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, and she's right , there's nothing tells her she
can't go out there and do that.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right you know.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I mean it's, and I'm working I'm working with the BLM
to try to get that.
So is Dennis Sullivan.
We're trying to get something.
That's a warning that you knowwhat goes on here.
There was a deal coming out ofthe Supreme Court.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that we could not, at
the time, stop anybody fromcoming out while we're racing.
Yeah, they can go anywhere theywant.
(35:09):
They could drive right in themiddle of the track while some
guy's running.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Because you can go on public land you can't stop
people from going on public land, which I I'm totally for.
But that did change right likethat.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, we they got a yeah.
And there's one thing I'll sayfor a mike at the blm he did a
great job getting they.
They fought like mad to getthat good because I think they
finally realize that you know,hey, you're putting people in
danger like no, it would bedefinitely it would affect the
lake bed too, you know, hey,you're putting people in danger?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Like no, it would be, definitely it would affect the
lake bed too.
Oh yeah, I know I feel likewhen that happened in 2020, when
COVID hit and that didn't gothrough, I think the wind out of
the sails was really taking outfor a little bit.
But, I think we're just in sucha prime spot to strike for Save
the Salt.
I think we can get.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I think we can get it done.
So I like you and I think youridea is great that we need to
get whatever a company that canput a program together for us,
and I agree, get on social mediaTikTok.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, because, like I mean, I even had a, one of
those pinup girls that were outthere contact me and say, hey,
if there's something that I cando on my end to help, like you
know, through social media orthrough the events that she's
doing, she's like I, she justloved it out there and she wants
to.
You know, there's this, thisdesire to to help with help.
(36:35):
So, yeah, we have the, we havethe, the social media people
that, um, people that arewilling to help, or you know, uh
, I don't know, I, I think wecan.
Yeah, I think we're in a spot.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
You know, we we do have a Save Us All Coalition
which, uh, I know I'd like toget you on that board.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Um, but we need to wake that thing up again,
regardless of you know.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
And I think we need to have a clear message.
Like, there's a lot ofinformation on Save the Salt and
it's detailed and I thinkthat's great, but you need to
have like just a concise pointof why are we saving the salt?
Yeah, what is the purpose?
And I think you can actuallyeven to different groups.
You can have a differentmessage.
And oh, maybe the people thatmake movies, that group has a
(37:24):
reason why to say they want it.
And the social media peoplewill have a reason they want to
save it and the racers have areason they want to save it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
And another thing we've and I think we got to.
There's a lot to deal about.
Well, you know, racing is a bigpart of out there, but that
can't be the thing you're goingafter, because some people don't
care about racing.
Why do we care about the racenow?
So you've got to look at.
I mean, there's weddingpictures taken out there Exactly
.
There's commercials.
(37:52):
There's a lot of stuff going on, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I agree, it's the only salt flats that's super
accessible.
There's three salt flats in thewhole world, yep, and one's
right here and it's veryaccessible and easy to get to
and it's worth saving.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Hopefully with the new administration and the
people we've got right nowcenter lee and and carmerson
owens, and you know some ofthose that I think that, but we
have to put a program together.
Right, we just can't walk away.
Can you help?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
yeah, yeah.
So I think there needs there'sa lot of.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
There's a lot of film .
There's a lot of good stuffclear back in the 50s that show
things were happening.
You got to put all thatconglomerate together, make a
video Like a 10 minute.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
So if anybody's out there that knows how to do a
video together.
We need something.
We need some help with socialmedia.
And even like let's start goingon podcasts of different groups
that it would appeal to.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Well, you take the Wild Horse Organization.
They sued the federalgovernment and they get $80
million a year to take care ofwild horses.
$80 million a year.
Do we look at that situation?
Do we go after, you know, forthe BLM for not taking care of,
(39:18):
you know, a natural resourcethat we got out there?
Yeah, you know, let's face it,mother Nature's not making
another one.
Yeah, so I have no problem withthe mining If they would have
put in there you put it backwhen you take off.
At least that much you know.
Whatever's left over needs togo back on the flat.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
The restoration of it .
What's left on that lease?
How much?
When did they sign that lease?
Well, it's a 20-year deal, butwhen did they sign that?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
And if they haven't done anything wrong, they just
automatically got to be renewed,okay, so?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
when is it renewed?
Well, we can find out, okay.
Is it renewed?
Well, we can find out, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You just got to go to the BLM and check with them and
stuff.
So when it's due again, yeah,but we still need the mining
company to help us get this done.
Right, right, we need them.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So I mean, the mining is part of the problem, but
they are part of the solutionnow too.
So we need them in terms ofbeing the solution.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, I mean the sad part about this.
This all started back in the50s and 60s and supposedly all
the money that came off of themining into the BLM was supposed
to go back into saltrestoration.
It goes back in the generalfund.
We've never seen any of it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, that salt coalition, what is it?
What is the difference betweenSave the Salt and the Save the
Salt Coalition?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Well, basically, the Save the Salt Coalition, that's
what we call it.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Then you have the I think they call it the Salt
Flats Coalition.
That's just a local group thatwe put together.
I mean we should just bring itall back to save the salt.
Well, it's all going to cometogether.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, it needs to just be all one group.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because it gets confusing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think we do have finances in the Save the Salt
budget that we could put towards.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Social marketing, social marketing, stuff like
that.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
You need to.
That's what I say, and I needto.
That's what I say.
And I need to get back withStuart, although he's retired.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Tell us who Stuart is .
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Stuart Goswine was the legal person back in
Washington DC for the SEMA andhe's had a real interest even
now, although SEMA is also stillgiving him the he can, yes,
work on the salt flats.
So SEMA is still involvedSomewhat.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
They've backed out a little bit.
I mean, but if we had a, therewas a major plan.
I think we had a major dealgoing?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, they would.
You would need them to go tomanufacturers to help.
Okay, you know, you got AMA andI think we got to put some kind
of a program together to showeverybody that, okay, you're
with this, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think so too.
I think we need to get workingon that.
If anybody out there knows anykind of social media, or we need
to get a video put together,some videos put together to put
on social media, I mean we couldstart working on it.
I think we could make it happen.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, we can.
Even there's got to be peoplehere in Salt Lake City that do
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
We got to sort of research that and see if we can
find.
Yeah, and, like I say, we dohave funds in Save the Salt.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Like to afford that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
To do this, but we'd have to get the you know all the
boards to say, okay, yeah,we're on board with you know,
let's do this.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, well, I like it .
What else do you think?
I have a lot of differentthoughts on things, but I think
we've touched is the way to goand, in terms of getting the
word out and saving the saltwith our message, I think
(42:57):
there's a lot of communitiesthat would be interested in it,
including the hot rod community,the racing community, the film
community, the social mediacommunity.
We have all of these, theseoptions.
I don't know, even like theschools in Utah, like just
starting to, I don't know.
I think there could be even aprogram there, where you're.
(43:19):
When I interview people I hearso many people talk about oh,
the first time I heard about theSalt Flats was in school.
I read this book or they showedthis video and like maybe you
know that's the future, is those?
people so maybe start there, butI think social media would help
with that, because you havethat's where they're at.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know, maybe we could get somebody like from BYU
or the University of Utah thatdoes you know, studying to do
that kind of stuff, that couldyou know, put something together
for us.
It's, you know.
Studying to do that kind ofstuff, that could you know, put
something together for us.
It's, you know, we got to.
Just I mean, let's face it, I'm84 years old and I've been
chasing this clear through thesixties and been lied to forever
, Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, they'll, they'll lie to you and you just
gotta I think you just gotta putthe screws to them in terms of
the pressure and that that iswhat.
So I think there will be timesfor call of action when we're
like, hey, you know, send outthere, get your, call your
senators and call yourcongressmen, but I think we need
to get our yeah we'll getthings together and we're going
(44:24):
to save this.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
We need to have something prepared that they can
use.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
No, I agree, we just got to organize.
At this point we're kind of itkind of put us on our heels the
last blow, and I just think weneed to regain our footing, get
after it.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I mean, let's face it , our family and we've been
involved with this stuff for,you know, forever.
It seems like to me.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
How many years do you think we have if it didn't
happen to to race I?
Speaker 3 (44:53):
you know that you had to just like guess.
I mean, I would say, if nothingelse happened, maybe five, six
years.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, you know I mean it's yeah I mean to show.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I mean I got in in 1975 into the 200-mile-an-hour
club.
I was the 135th member in aclub that's got over 800 members
now and we even noticed it backthen.
That's when we started a localgroup here.
Just, you know, we got lied toall the time by the BLM and
(45:26):
everybody, and even Kaiser atthe time.
You know, yeah, we're going todo something Well, and we're
stupid old racers.
We just said, okay, well, goodThanks.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Well, you're honest and so you think other people
are going to be honest, and justpolitics, it's all politics and
it's.
But we can.
We can get.
We can get down and dirty withthem if we have to and make it
happen.
I am so positive about this.
Listen, the Salt Flats isalready all over social media.
(45:56):
It's already out there, and ifpeople just knew it was in
danger of being gone.
I just think we have the upperhand.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We just need to use it.
We have the leverage.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We need to use it, Okay.
Well, that's where we're at andwe're just we're waiting to
kind of gather everything, andthen we're going to, we're going
to get after it.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah, everybody out there.
You know we're going to chaseit.
This is our last.
This is our last chance yeah.
Yeah, we can't get it done now.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
We're in trouble yeah we can't get it done now we're
in trouble.
We're getting it done.
Okay, thanks, Dad.
Thanks for listening to.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Land Speed Legends.
Make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss any future episodes.
In the meantime, keep up withthe show on Facebook and
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