April 22, 2025 • 44 mins
Jhoanna Astudillo shares her journey from Ecuador to the US, highlighting how first-generation Latino immigrants often lack financial literacy while unconsciously developing money habits that influence future generations. Her personal story reveals how cultural backgrounds shape our relationship with money and the importance of changing narratives for our children.
• Experiencing the "ghost in the country" phenomenon when denied credit despite having savings
• Catching herself passing down unhealthy money messages to her daughter
• Working as Hispanic Segment Leader at BOKF to create financial education workshops
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Violeta Sandoval (00:00):
Growing up, especially like first gen
immigrants in the Latinocommunity.
Yeah, we, we have this trendthat we don't get a lot of
financial literacy growing up,but that doesn't mean that we
aren't exposed or pick up, youknow, money habits and money
mindsets that tend to have aninfluence in our lives, and it
(00:23):
isn't until we get a little bitolder that you know we might
start figuring these out.
And then, even later, if we aretrying to teach the next
generation whether it's like ourkids or maybe our nieces and
nephews that we start kind ofseeing some of these influences
come up that we learnedthroughout our childhood, and so
(00:44):
it can be a struggle, and sowith me today I have Joanna
Estudillo to share her story.
Jhoanna Astudillo (00:54):
Thank, you, violeta, and I'm so excited to
be here.
As you mentioned, joannaEstudillo, I'm actually
originally from Ecuador.
I moved to the US when I was 18.
And shortly after I joined themilitary for a chance to get my
education paid for and learn thelanguage, and a lot of things
happened then and between thatuntil now, I went to college in
(01:17):
Illinois.
I have a degree ininternational business and
marketing and then I joined thefinancial industry almost 18
years ago.
So I spent 10 years in sales indifferent positions at another
financial institution and todayI work for BOKF and Bank of
Oklahoma in Tulsa and I'm theHispanic segment leader for the
(01:40):
consumer division for theHispanic strategy, and I
absolutely love what I do.
And you know you mentionedabout that relationship that we
have with money or thoseinfluences that we have, and I
see those every day, not only inmy household but outside as
well.
Violeta Sandoval (01:56):
You said you joined the army and this is
where you, kind of like, startedlearning a little bit about
finances and your financialjourney.
But you also, you know, had alittle, I guess, financial
mistakes throughout there, causeI know I did at the beginning.
So I want you to go a littlebit into that.
Jhoanna Astudillo (02:16):
Yeah, so, violeta, you know, I moved to
the U?
S and I think it wasn't evenfour weeks after I was here, I
joined the military.
So I started with, you know,and I think many people, even if
they didn't go to the military,they're immigrants can relate
to not knowing the language.
And then you add financialpieces to that right the culture
, nuance, banking we're talkingabout 1999.
(02:39):
So banking, access to bankingin Latin America was not the
same.
It's not the same today as itwas before.
So I knew nothing about it.
Thankfully, I joined with mysister and I still remember, you
know, as you were asking me,when we went through the process
.
You have to set up directdeposit.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
You had to pick up an account,and so we were like looking at
(03:01):
what other people are doing,because we didn't speak the
language as well, we couldn'tunderstand a little bit.
But yeah, that was my firstpaycheck um, and for everybody
that's in the military as aniwan um, it's not a lot of money
, but they take care ofeverything else for you.
You don't have to worry abouthousing, you don't have to worry
about food, you don't have toworry about anything, and so the
(03:23):
money that you get is justreally for you, um, and without
tools and resources and knowinghow to manage you know you, just
you just spend the money.
Uh, also, because you know Igrew up in Ecuador.
We didn't have a lot.
My parents made a lot ofsacrifices, and so I I remember
that one.
Once I got like first paycheck,all I wanted to do was buy
(03:45):
gifts to give back to my family.
I used to go to Ecuador everysummer for a whole month.
I saved all my vacation insuitcases full of gifts for
everybody.
So I think for the first twoyears since where my paycheck
went to, I think I needed tomake up for that, for the memory
of growing up that we didn'thave enough.
(04:06):
You have enough to buy extrapairs of shoes or extra pair of
jeans or extra of this.
It was always, um, I alwaysremember hearing, and I knew how
much of a sacrifice what myparents were making to put us in
private schools becauseeducation is extremely important
to them, and so that was my wayof okay, now I have a little
bit of money, let me show themgratitude for what they have
(04:28):
done, so I didn't save anything.
Violeta Sandoval (04:31):
I think I had the same mentality.
It was like I'm working now andI have, you know, a stable
paycheck, because I rememberlike every Christmas I bought my
dad like a new tv and new TV,or I had bought my mom a stove,
because I felt that need to giveback because of their sacrifice
(04:53):
and all that.
So I definitely relate to that.
Jhoanna Astudillo (04:57):
Ecuador is a little different.
When I was in high school, wenever had jobs.
It's not like here thatteenagers work part time, so
they are getting access to money.
They're making their own moneybabysitting that.
The culture was very differentat that time, and so I also
remember the first time I got myaccount overdrawn I thought I
was in big trouble.
Violeta Sandoval (05:17):
I didn't understand.
Jhoanna Astudillo (05:18):
I got the letter, the fee, but I didn't
know what it meant, like Ireally thought I'm in trouble
for overjoying my account.
So now that I work in the bankI'm like it wasn't that big of a
trouble.
But yes, I wish that I never.
Violeta Sandoval (05:32):
I feel like everybody that goes into the
military has to go through thisexperience of the car dealership
.
So what is your story?
What was your.
Jhoanna Astudillo (05:43):
So my last year in the military I was in
iraq in operation iraqi freedom,and so one of the interesting
things that they have was theyhad a a program that if you put
money aside so that was a smartdecision I made if you put money
aside, the army will matchthose funds for you.
And so I came back back and Ihad like $16,000 saved, and now
(06:08):
it was time to get out of themilitary.
So I knew I needed a vehicle.
I was going to move back toIllinois to go to school.
So I went to the dealership andI was so happy I'd been in the
service for four years and I hadsome credit cards from the
stores because I thought that'show you build credit credit and
they denied the loan to me itwas a Nissan dealership and I
(06:31):
only went to Nissan because,just like any other Hispanic,
especially in that time, youwent with where your uncle went,
the one that lived here thelongest, that knew everything
about everything right.
I went to Nissan because thatwas the right car and they told
me it was denied.
And I said why?
And the answer I will neverforget they told me I was a
(06:53):
ghost in this country aftercoming back from Iraq and
fighting in the war and I saidwhat do you mean?
And I learned that mean.
I don't know that.
I agree fully.
But not having credit is worseas having bad credit.
I think that we can agree todisagree there.
But I didn't have credit.
(07:14):
I only had store credit cards.
I didn't have a bank creditcard.
So then I offered to put halfof the money.
Now I know better today.
I wish I put it in the market.
But I offered to put half ofthe money and I know better
today.
I wish I put it in the market.
But, um, I offered to put halfof the money and I still
couldn't qualify.
I had to had, I think, acosigner to get my vehicle.
My Nissan Sentra 19 no 2004 wasmy first vehicle with a
(07:39):
cosigner paying 50% down becauseI was a ghost in this country.
Violeta Sandoval (07:45):
Oh, man, yeah, I had, I had the same thing.
I was a ghost.
And when you said that and Iread, like your, your, your
whole story, I saw that I waslike, oh, I know how that feels,
cause I went.
Except, I went for a Honda, Iwas going for a Nissan, but I
didn't find one that was likewithin like my price range, I
(08:05):
think.
I forgot what it was, and itwas the same thing.
I didn't have a credit because,of course, you know, my parents
were like don't get into debtwith anything.
So I didn't even have a creditcard ever.
And then I went to the cardealership and, yeah, it was so
hard, it was so hard to get that, that, um, honda, it was like a
(08:26):
2008 Honda Accord you know, myparents didn't live in the US so
they went back.
Jhoanna Astudillo (08:32):
We came here because my aunt had applied for
us, so it was just my brotherand my sister, so not having
parents to live here um it was.
You know it added the difficulty.
Like I said, we had an unclethat he had.
He was very educatedfinancially because he had done
the work for himself but we mybrother and my sister lived with
(08:55):
him for a year so he kind ofwas teaching them some things
but I didn't have that exposure.
But even today I realize itjust is not one conversation.
You don't learn by knowing thatsomebody else has done
something.
It is a culture, it's part of aculture piece and it's a
journey to be able to learn,observe, being exposed to.
(09:15):
So a conversation is not enoughand I didn't have that
knowledge in the military.
So it was pretty, prettyinteresting and interesting
enough to be like that.
I kept that vehicle for like 10years if, yeah, I could not let
go.
Violeta Sandoval (09:31):
It was like we're like no, this cost me way
too much to let it go yes, intears.
Jhoanna Astudillo (09:37):
And you mentioned something that's funny
, that you know.
Growing up, your father saiddon't get in debt.
So I remember my dad.
He used to say if you don'thave money, don't buy it, and
when he came to visit us we wereso happy to tell him.
I think my brother had bought avehicle too and I bought a
vehicle, and so we're like papilook at my car, and you know
what he said to us mijita,that's not your car, that's the
(09:59):
bank's car when you pay for it.
Yeah, yeah waiting on my parade.
I'm so proud of what I'veaccomplished so that mentality
of if you don't have money,don't buy it and then um this is
not yours until you have thetitle.
This is, this is the banks, sokind of that reality oh so.
Violeta Sandoval (10:23):
So what was it like?
Did it take you after that?
Or like I guess was that thepoint where you were like, oh
wow, like I, maybe I shouldstart figuring this money thing
out.
Or like, did it take a littlebit longer?
Jhoanna Astudillo (10:39):
Yeah, I think that it's a journey right being
financial savvy is a journey.
I do think that it was a journey.
Right, being financial savvy isa journey.
I do think that it was astarting point to realize.
But then, without guidance,you're like okay, so how do I
build credit?
I think the starting point wasthat I knew having the vehicle
was going to help me buildcredit, and I still remember
(11:00):
learning that I had the money topay it off, but if I paid it
off completely, I was not goingto bill credit.
So that was also kind of funnyfrom a cultural perspective.
Like I can only bill credit ifI owe you money, but if I pay
you, like if I get the loan andpay you in two months, I'm not
good.
I'm still not good because inorder to bill credit, I have to
(11:20):
owe money, which was thecomplete opposite for me and I'm
like no, it should be that Ipaid off so quickly.
And so then it was like, okay, Ineed to start getting credit
cards.
And I went to college for fouryears.
Again, my parents didn't livehere, so it was on my own.
I traveled to Spain doing I didan internship.
So I got in some debt with thecredit cards, even though the
(11:41):
army kind of helped pay for someof that.
But I was still very young andvery naive and so I think I made
some some good decisions, butthey were not necessarily based
on my financial awareness.
I think it was just decisionsthat I kind of learned from my
mom.
So one of them was when I wasin the military I put extra
(12:02):
money towards the GI bill.
For the ones that don't know isthe font that you get to pay
for your education.
So if you put a little bit ofextra money you could increase
it by like a crazy percentage.
So I did that.
So that helped me a lot incollege.
But yeah, so in college I wasgetting the money from the GI
Bill.
Last Illinois had a program, soIllinois was giving me money,
(12:25):
Illinois was paying my wholeeducation.
I was getting the paycheck fromthe army and I was living in an
apartment that was maybe $300.
So I kind of live a really goodlife.
And I picked up a part-time jobjust to hang out with my
friends, but I was taking mylaundry to the laundromat for
them to do it, because I wantedto save time for myself and I
(12:48):
thought I deserve it.
So really, bad yeah um, I mean,I could have saved money during
that time.
I definitely could have savedmoney because of the income I
was getting and I did, and I gotin debt.
I think when I graduated fromcollege I had had and I'm not
proud of this, I don't think Ihave ever actually shared this
with anyone I had $15,000 indebt.
(13:11):
Oh wow, not education debt,because my college was paid for.
I didn't have to take any loans, but the $15,000 was in credit
card and it was part of theinternship in Spain because the
army didn't pay for that and theinternship didn't pay for it.
I had a really great experience,but I graduated with that and,
(13:34):
interesting enough, I startedworking at the bank and my
husband now, who was myboyfriend, dan, and we started
dating and kind of being seriousdating.
He's not he's not Hispanic andhe said I remember him sitting
down with me and I told him andhe had zero debt, he had worked
(13:57):
like two jobs while he was incollege and he's the first one
that kind of sat down with meand said we're going to do kind
of a set up a process and cause.
I was just paying right, tryingto pay, I think I had three
credit cards and so he, he.
It was the first time somebodytold me no, no, no, you're going
to pay the ones with thehighest rate first, but even
(14:18):
more so having to write it down,violeta it made it real for me
because I think I I hadacknowledgement.
but sometimes we are kind ofscared of make you know, saying
it out loud, because now it'sreal.
I was just kind of paying theminimum payment and when I wrote
it down in a paper it kind ofhit me and it scared me a little
(14:38):
bit.
This was 2003 and I had 15 000in credit card debt and I had
nothing to my name no house, acar than I was four years old
and we created a plan and I paidthat, I think, in less than a
year.
I wasn't I mean, I wasn'tmaking a lot of money, I was a
personal banker, and I thinkthat's when things really
(14:59):
changed for me.
Violeta Sandoval (15:02):
Yeah, sometimes it just takes that
just facing it on because you'reyou think you're doing like
taking action because you werepaying it but it was just the
minimum payment and you could bedoing that for a few years.
But actually sitting down andfacing that fear Cause I know we
(15:24):
and that guilt cause you knowwe deal with that guilt of you
know, making a, a financialdecision that wasn't the best,
but going there and actuallycreating a plan and you ended up
paying it off and you said ayear.
So sometimes we just got toface it.
Jhoanna Astudillo (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, and have a strategy to it, right
.
I had somebody that took thetime and really understood what
it was, as opposed to saying,okay, $15,000, you're going to
pay this much every month.
It was no, let's take a look.
You've got to look and that'swhat we try to do now with our
clients, but you have tounderstand your debt because
sometimes we get into debtwithout understanding and again,
(16:07):
a bad behavior, even while Iwas paying the debt, that
behavior and that relationshipwith money.
My love language was givinggifts and my mom was a giver
it's still a gift I love her.
So, even though I was paying,sometimes I found myself buying
something unnecessary to give tosomebody for their birthday.
I wanted to show my gratitudeand my love through that, and
(16:30):
while going on to Ecuador forvacation, I couldn't go empty
handed so suitcases full ofgifts while I was getting in
debt, because I always thoughtthat I had the need to show them
love and repay for what theydid, even though my parents kept
saying we don't need anything.
We don't need anything and Ithink, a little bit of a healing
(16:50):
too.
You know, I went to a privateschool in Ecuador.
We didn't have as much asothers, and so you have a
paycheck.
I think I was, maybeunfortunately, thinking that
success was not having nicethings and having the nice
purses, and so now I have toshow that I'm successful.
(17:11):
Obviously, today I think verydifferently, but I was 22, 23 at
that time, 26 maybe and so Iwas still spending money and
things that don't add any value.
Violeta Sandoval (17:22):
Yeah, I did the same thing, going and get
the nice, the Gucci shoes andthe little Louis Vuitton bag and
I was like like I sold thatlike last year because it just
sat, it sat in my closet becausethen I was too scared to
actually use it because it costso much.
I was like you know what, I'mjust gonna let it go and um, so,
(17:44):
yeah, I learned a lesson.
I've gotten rid of all thatstuff for the most part, unless
I know I'm actually using it.
Things are starting to come up.
Um, you were mentioning alittle bit earlier and and
through, uh, your story, that Iread that, uh, you're realizing
things that were told to you, orthat you learned, that you're
(18:05):
realizing that you're kind oflike, you know, continuing the
cycle.
Jhoanna Astudillo (18:17):
Yeah, you know one of the things I was
mentioning to you, I think theway I will call it is that
relationship with money and youknow the things that we learned
through it, right?
This idea of having to giveback and the love language,
right, comes from thatrelationship with money.
I think I saw money as a luxurygrowing up, as opposed to as a
resource and a tool.
So I think many, many um of thepeople listening to this
(18:38):
podcast have heard this growingup that money doesn't grow on
trees and dinero no crece losarboles.
No matter where you went or whatyou did, it was like do not
even ask for because we don'thave money.
And the other one was we donnot even ask for because we
don't have money.
And the other one was we don'thave money for that, we don't
have money, we don't have money,we don't have money.
And in reality, again, myparents made a lot of sacrifices
because the money was going foreducation and they were
(19:01):
extremely humble people soanytime you know, my brother and
I joke that people used to cometo visit my mom will say say
thank you so much for coming,like like she was so grateful
that people will come to myhouse because our house was not,
you know, as big and in a greatlocation like others.
But and so subconsciously, youkind of have those ideas.
And so Emilia is today.
(19:22):
She's eight years old now, butI realized when she was like
maybe three and we used to go tothe store before we went in, I
looked at Amelia in the eyes andI said why are we going inside?
We're going to get milk, we'renot going to get toast.
We don't have money for that.
And then money doesn't go ontrees and every time we're going
(19:42):
to go in for this.
And so I remember we were atone of the stores and Amelia
asked if she could have this toy.
And then I look at her in theeyes and I said do you remember
Amelia?
And she will say money doesn'tgo on trees.
And I said we don't have moneyfor that.
And as my husband and I youknow, we budget Again, we have
(20:04):
come a long way.
We have to reset our budgetsfrom time to time as we progress
and we're more successful.
We have to get thingsdifferently.
But as I was looking at my my,the money in my account, and we
do have money for that, we havemoney for that, not credit card
money.
We actually have money.
We have done a really good job.
We have made changes and maybehas an account with money
(20:26):
because she gets gifts and youknow cash and gifts, and so I
don't know what hit me.
I think it was a combination ofthings and maybe being exposed
to clients, but I decided Ineeded to change the narrative.
It's not that we don't havemoney for that.
Should we spend money on that.
That's the real question andthat's the real conversation
(20:48):
with Amelia, and so that starteda journey that it's been
wonderful and she's extremelyengaged and we talk about things
and we even do budget and wecan go into more of that.
But I realized again that Ididn't have a good relationship
with money and then I saw moneyas a luxury.
So when I got some I needed tospend, I needed to showcase,
(21:12):
versus seeing money as a tool.
Violeta Sandoval (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
You said that of how we changethat mindset of money as a
luxury versus as a resource anda tool, because once that kind
of like switched in my brain,like it changed a lot of how I
deal with my finances, how I'minvesting and all that stuff and
(21:38):
uh, the difference is is huge.
So I'm fine with driving.
Right now I have a little 2010Honda Civic and it gets me to
point A and to point B to work,and that's all I needed for we
have my husband's truck for anyother thing.
So I can't bring myself, likeyou said, as like do I need to
(22:02):
spend money on that?
Like do I need to spend moneyon another car when I have one
that's perfect, it's not pretty,but it it works.
And yeah, maybe once we moveback down to Texas, that, um,
then I might go um and buy a car.
But more strategically, andlike I'm not gonna go out and
(22:24):
get a new car.
Um, I've already said I'llnever get a new car.
I just can't, I can't, I can'tdo it.
I don't know why.
Jhoanna Astudillo (22:31):
But yeah, that mindset shift is a game
changer for sure something andit may not be a need, but you
(22:54):
have put money aside for that.
So emilia has her account andwe do chores and we, you know, I
teach her.
You know, for us it's extremelyimportant to give back, but we
give back differently.
It's not giving back just giftsfor people that don't need it.
It's giving back toorganizations that we know are
going to make an impact and foremilia to learn that that you
give some of what you get,especially when you're not doing
anything to get um, and we putmoney aside for vacation.
(23:18):
We're huge in experiences likewe.
We like a really good meal, agood restaurant and bringing a
meal on, so those memories areimportant to us, but we put
money aside for that.
We're not leaving a paycheck bypaycheck or day by day, right?
And so it's been great to seealso her mindset, because we go
(23:39):
to the store and she has moneyin her account and she said can
I buy this?
And I'm like, well, you could,you have money, but let's talk
about why you want it.
And you have 20 teddy bears athome that you don't even play
with.
Now I have to tell you somethingfunny that happened.
So Amelia, maybe six, I don'tknow.
She was still very little.
She came home from school andshe's very intuitive and and a
(24:03):
deep thinker.
But I guess they went throughthis in school and she said to
my husband and I we were sittingthere and she said mommy, do
you know where money comes from?
I'm like what do you mean?
She's like money is it's like,do you know that money comes
from paper?
And we said of course money ismade of paper.
And she said do you know wherepaper comes from?
My husband said trees.
(24:25):
She's like yeah and then shewalked away and him and I look
at each other, we're like, well,I guess money that's come from
trees.
Yeah, oh man, it was so cuteand funny.
But um, you know, I just wantAmelia to have um a healthy
exposure.
I know she's gonna make mistakesand we have to make those
(24:47):
mistakes safe for her um but Ido want her to have a different
relationship with money, becauseI think that when you have a
healthy relationship with money,to your point, you can see
money as a tool, you can invest,you can do a lot of those
things that we were not exposedto, because we just saw money as
a luxury yeah, yeah, I'm.
Violeta Sandoval (25:09):
I'm glad that you you pointed that out of
being okay with, uh, makingfinancial mistakes because you
are going to and, uh, you know,just real quick, as, like a, as
a real estate investor, that'sone of the hardest things, uh,
when I'm out here, you know,promoting real estate investing
and and teaching it to theLatino community, that's one of
(25:33):
the biggest fears is thepotential to make mistakes.
But, like you mentioned, is thatyou set yourself up and provide
a cushion to that if there is amistake or something does go
wrong, because that's thebiggest fear as well or
something does go wrong, becausethat's the biggest fear as well
that you know a tenant doesn'tpay or whatever, and it's like
no, we, you, you invest, butwith that risk in mind and you
(25:55):
set yourself up for that riskthrough an emergency fund, just
like you would for yourself.
You do it for each propertythat you invest in, so that way
you're OK.
If you need to replace the roof, you have those funds there.
Then, rather than it like comeout of nowhere and then you're
scrambling to pay it, and that'swhen that big old fear comes
(26:17):
towards risk and the resistanceto invest.
And, even if it's not realestate investing similar with
the stock market.
Especially with what happenedrecently, I know it kind of like
set a few people back of likehesitating to invest.
So I know in our communitythat's one big thing that we
have to overcome.
Jhoanna Astudillo (26:39):
Oh my gosh, and you know when I mean.
The numbers tell a story 49% ofHispanic Latinos don't own any
investments.
That's one of the best vehiclesto build wealth, because
(27:09):
building wealth takes cyclesright and again.
Financial education andsavviness is a journey I'm still
learning.
I'm still going to makemistakes.
I'm much better off than I wasbefore, but think about that 49
Forty nine percent don't own aninvestment, and part of that is
the culture, is the lack ofawareness.
Many of them don't even putmoney in the 401k, and I was one
(27:31):
of them.
I mean, if I go back and I wishI could look at my younger self
and tell her a different story,but I didn't start putting
money in my 401k until almostone year.
I was working for the bank.
I lost one year and again I wasdating the person that's now my
husband, and I think I did alittle before, because he just
(27:54):
kept telling me Joanna, joanna,you got to do it and I was
losing money because the companywas matching, of course, uh,
but it's just not something thatit's, it's familiar to us, it's
a foreign language, it's youknow, uh.
So any type of investment.
What's so funny, though,billette, if you think about the
immigrant we take.
(28:15):
We're risk takers, just live inour countries.
Yes, yes, I'm glad you broughtthat up.
But then we become, you know.
I think it's because we don'tknow enough and sometimes we're
afraid to ask the question.
We think that we need to knowmore before we do something and
we are not always comfortablewith raising our hand and going
(28:38):
to people like you or people inthe community that can teach
them.
So, um, it's kind of funny tounderstand that paradigm right,
risk takers but at the same time, quite afraid of taking
advantage of those things.
Violeta Sandoval (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a big thing
, that, um, I'm glad youmentioned it because it is true.
It's like you know, we, we willtake the biggest risk of
leaving a country to anothercountry where most of the time,
they don't even know thelanguage yet.
You know they have to learn thelanguage when they get here, or
(29:12):
at least you know.
Uh, sometimes they still don't.
Like, my mom is still kind oflike iffy with with english.
She could understand it, butlike she's still not after being
here like 30, over 30 years atthis point.
Um, but when it comes for herto do anything regarding her
money, like she it's so it's sohard to get her and and similar
(29:37):
a little bit.
My dad's a little bit easier,but he still has his kind of
like uh, hesitation andeverything like that.
But, yeah, we take, took thebiggest risk, but now with money
, it is like I'm not, I'm doingeverything the safe way and um
yeah, which is a great.
(29:57):
You know like um, you know, tokind of like wrap it up, going
into, uh, we were talking aboutBe Okay and we were mentioning I
can't remember if we wererecording at that time, but we
were talking about the resourcesand and you mentioned that it
is the Hispanic segment, and soI want to get know a little bit
(30:20):
about that, because it's soimportant and I'm glad that BOK
is actually, you know,implementing that because we
need it.
Jhoanna Astudillo (30:32):
So I wanted for you to share a little bit
about that.
Absolutely, I know I have tosay first that you know I have
my dream job and you know, noteverybody can say that.
So I think we're very blessed.
Violeta Sandoval (30:42):
So I work with .
Jhoanna Astudillo (30:43):
Bank of Oklahoma here in Tulsa, but it's
part of BOKF, so we're in manystates.
In other states we have thelocal name, like Bank of Texas,
OK, and then BOKF and someothers.
So this job started as aproject, working on a project
with different individuals tosee how we were supporting the
(31:04):
Hispanic Latino community, andthen a job was created, and so
it's a multi-year strategy andone of the things that you know,
as I was mentioning, theHispanic demographic is a
growing, it's a powerhouse.
It's a growing segment, is agrowing segment.
Last year it was shared that ifthe Hispanic Latinos were a
(31:25):
standalone country in the US, wewould be like either the fourth
or fifth GDP in the world 4.4million businesses owned by
Latinos.
We contribute $800 billion tothe economy, and so you know I
want to make sure people knowthis is not necessarily a
diversity strategy.
This is a business strategy.
We want to take it to thegrowth of the community and also
(31:49):
, at the same time, Bank ofOklahoma, BOPF has always had a
commitment to advance thecommunities that we serve, and
so those things go hand in handfor us.
So you know, creating.
We want to be the bank ofchoice for Latinos.
My goal is to help Latinoindividuals, help them build
(32:09):
wealth and become financiallyindependent.
And so different pieces in thestrategy, but the crucial one,
Violeta, is financial educationregardless of the segmentation
within the hispanic latinocommunity.
we're not a monolithic community.
We come in different shapes.
We have affluent clients withfluent business uh, businesses
(32:30):
but we also have entrepreneursthat are just starting.
We have emerging people who arejust emerging right and the
youth 1 million latinos areturning 18 every, and we expect
that for the next two decades.
So I mean, just think about thepowerhouse right.
And so we take that with ourcommunity relations very
(32:52):
seriously.
And so I learned that April isFinancial Inclusion Month, so we
do workshops across the country, but in Tulsa, we're going to
have four workshops in April,three of them in Spanish,
regarding identity theft, whichunfortunately, our community is
very exposed to.
And then you know how to createan emergency fund, and this is
(33:15):
geared to anyone, whether you'rea personal client, business
client, or if you're not aclient, you can attend anyone.
Whether you're a personalclient, business client, or if
you're not a client, you canattend.
We're planning on doing some ofthose virtually, so we can, you
know, attract people even inother places.
But, like I said, we havepeople in every market where we
are located, and so we'll bedoing some of those as well.
But financial education isabsolutely key.
Violeta Sandoval (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm glad that you're takingthat initiative and providing
those resources, and especiallywith the identity theft, I
always forget about that one,because you're right, like I
could imagine, like I alwaysthink about, like, my parents
it's like you know, at any pointthey because they don't know,
(34:00):
they don't know, like, howdocuments work, and especially,
you know, like, growing up, Iwas the one that like translated
everything for them, so theyrely on me to this day Like I'm
currently visiting my family andmy dad already had a stack of
papers for me and it's like Igot this, I got this.
I was like, okay, this is this,I got this, I got this.
I was like, okay, this is thisand this is that, and blah, blah
(34:22):
, blah.
So I could see how for surethat puts them at risk.
So I'm glad that y'all have aworkshop for that as well, cause
I didn't even think about thataspect as well.
Jhoanna Astudillo (34:38):
Yeah, and it's.
You know, I work with a lot ofnonprofit organizations locally.
So two of those are going to bedone with Avanzando Juntos, and
we do a lot of work withnonprofits Because you know,
violeta, you know when I thinkabout the work we do.
One of the pieces for me, andthe leadership in the bank, is
(34:59):
we want to be very intentional,so it's understanding what's the
real need and where can we addvalue, because we are not going
to add value everywhere.
And so, working with localnonprofits and I said this to
the people listening to you ifyou're in a leadership position,
find those organizations thatalready have influence, not only
because of the influence,because they know the community,
(35:20):
and so you're going to be ableto be more effective, addressing
the needs that they havealready identified and using the
infrastructure that they have.
Well, you can provide the toolsand resources that they need,
such as bilingual people thathave knowledge in the finance
world.
Sometimes even, you know, maybethey can do donations for their
operational costs, and so Ithink that those because you
(35:43):
have to think how am I going tobe more effective so I can reach
as many people to help withwhat the mission is.
So we do a lot of work withlocal nonprofits, and then we
also, obviously, do a lot ofwork through the branches, you
know.
Work with your personal banker.
That's what they're there for.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
That's that's their role,that's their job, right?
(36:05):
Um, I can imagine, though,violeta, how hard it is to try
to change the mindset.
Like you say, your mom and yourdad, and I tell you, it
happened to me many times,because I think, for a lot of
immigrants, especially the thefirst generation foreign born,
like your parents, you rememberour country and our customs, the
(36:27):
way we left them, and we don'tsee them involved.
So we sometimes try to repeatthe same things that we knew,
because we think that ourcountries are still doing the
same thing.
And when I went to ecuador andsaw the banking system today, I
was blown away because it haschanged.
So I have tried to rememberthat when I'm raising my
(36:49):
daughter, because you knowEcuador has changed.
I can't continue to try to dothe same things I did there over
20 years ago, but I thinkthat's what we carry over 20
years ago.
But I think that's what wecarry and also what I see from
our a lot of the people that Iwork with I serve in non-profit
(37:10):
organizations as well the trust,the lack of trust of clients
with your financial institutions.
Here sometimes it reallydoesn't have much to do with
what the financial institutionsdo, it's more the lack of trust
based of their experience athome.
Yes, both of what happened intheir home countries and because
of the lack of regulations, andso we gotta understand that.
(37:32):
It's almost like they havetrauma the same way we did, but
even more so.
So we have to be mindful ofthat to be able to help.
Violeta Sandoval (37:39):
You're not just teaching a class, changing
a mindset yeah, you know what Idid, I, I, I guess I never
considered it that way, but asyou were talking about it, it
did bring to mind of how myparents because, yeah, my mom
always talks about, you know,mexico, this and this, and that
(38:02):
I was like, like, and she goesand visits it, but, um, she only
goes to like her hometown andthen that's it.
But I've gone, uh, throughoutMexico as I reconnect to my
roots.
So I've been going around, tryto go visit different parts of
Mexico, and I'm seeing thosechanges.
And even with my dad now, atfirst they would always, I do
(38:24):
remember them mentioning aboutthe banks of Mexico and all this
stuff, and now they've done so,like improved so much that now,
like they have, like he's, he'sgetting the retirement over
there now too, because now he mydad's 65 now, so he's able to
be eligible, and so he's beengoing back and forth and he's
(38:46):
like, every time he comes backhe's like, wow, like you know,
now they put it like in thislittle card, just like over here
and everything, and it's like,um, yeah, I could see now what
you were talking about and itdidn't occur to me of that's
kind of like where it stems fromfor them yeah, and I think you
(39:06):
know when I think of financialeducation.
Jhoanna Astudillo (39:08):
I serve in the board of three organizations
, so I do a lot of work withthem to develop business
entrepreneurs as well, and theymake and the immigrants are not
all the same.
You, you know, when you startlooking at, you know, in a class
in the past, in the stateswhere I worked, always the
largest population of attendeesof any class were from Mexican
(39:32):
descendants right, firstgeneration, maybe second, maybe
first generation born.
But now I sit in a class and80% are Venezuelans, 10% Mexican
, and then in the next class,90% are Mexican.
So, but you have a lot of morecultures and then you have
different degrees of education.
The people that we meet with,business entrepreneurs a lot of
(39:55):
them are graduated not only fromhigh school but from college.
So it's a very differentaudience, violeta, and that's
why I think it's important.
You know, when you think aboutdoing financial education, I
think the first thing is todefine what do you want the
outcome to be, what do you wantto help these people accomplish?
Right, because it's for them,it's not for us and then realize
(40:15):
that somebody told me this andit was very powerful there will
always be a first generation ofimmigrants.
But that first generation isnot going to look the same.
Yeah, they're more educated, um,many of them have access to
banking in their home countries,but the culture nuance is going
to be different.
So, um, we still need to helpthem, but we got to kind of
(40:38):
think a little different and Ithink the power of working with
local people is it's um has beenvery great for us before I
close the episode um, where canthey go and look for these
workshops, like is on thewebsite, or where can they find
them?
yes, so we post in social media.
(40:58):
So, um, like I said, you can goand find us on LinkedIn or you
can go to a website and youeither look from Bank of
Oklahoma if you're in Oklahoma,and then we also post those
workshops in social media and Ithink we're going to be adding
to our local sites for clientsand non-clients.
(41:19):
But they can search Once.
Violeta Sandoval (41:21):
once we post in social media, we will give
them the link and they can findthe workshops that we are
working on okay, awesome, I'llmake sure to put all that those
links to your linkedin and, um,all the social media platforms
that you have in the website uh,down in the show notes or in
the description, depending on ifyou're watching on YouTube or
(41:49):
you know regular like Spotify orwhatever.
But yeah, thank you so much,joanna, for coming on here.
I learned a lot and a lot ofthings to consider for in the
future to help our community,and I'm super excited that you
know the blank, blank Bank ofOklahoma is out here, you know
doing these things and havingthese resources for our
(42:09):
community.
So thank you so much for youknow coming here done and I am
learning so much Again.
Jhoanna Astudillo (42:25):
I love the chisme and name to it and for
giving us that voice and thatopportunity to help others.
you know you and I, as weconnected, have some so many
similar things that happen, andI'm sure that people listening
to do as well.
But I think you know what whatI will share with them is you've
got to take the first step.
It's never too late.
You're going to take the firststep, leverage the resources.
You don't have to do this onyour own, but you do have the
(42:48):
opportunity to create and changethat cycle, not just for
yourself, but for your kids aswell.
So thank you again, violeta,for the opportunity.
Muchísimas gracias.
Violeta Sandoval (43:00):
Thank you.
Well, that's it for thisepisode.
I will see everyone in the nextone.
Bye, bye-bye.
Growing up, especially like first gen
immigrants in the Latinocommunity.
Yeah, we, we have this trendthat we don't get a lot of
financial literacy growing up,but that doesn't mean that we
aren't exposed or pick up, youknow, money habits and money
mindsets that tend to have aninfluence in our lives, and it
(00:23):
isn't until we get a little bitolder that you know we might
start figuring these out.
And then, even later, if we aretrying to teach the next
generation whether it's like ourkids or maybe our nieces and
nephews that we start kind ofseeing some of these influences
come up that we learnedthroughout our childhood, and so
(00:44):
it can be a struggle, and sowith me today I have Joanna
Estudillo to share her story.
Jhoanna Astudillo (00:54):
Thank, you, violeta, and I'm so excited to
be here.
As you mentioned, joannaEstudillo, I'm actually
originally from Ecuador.
I moved to the US when I was 18.
And shortly after I joined themilitary for a chance to get my
education paid for and learn thelanguage, and a lot of things
happened then and between thatuntil now, I went to college in
(01:17):
Illinois.
I have a degree ininternational business and
marketing and then I joined thefinancial industry almost 18
years ago.
So I spent 10 years in sales indifferent positions at another
financial institution and todayI work for BOKF and Bank of
Oklahoma in Tulsa and I'm theHispanic segment leader for the
(01:40):
consumer division for theHispanic strategy, and I
absolutely love what I do.
And you know you mentionedabout that relationship that we
have with money or thoseinfluences that we have, and I
see those every day, not only inmy household but outside as
well.
Violeta Sandoval (01:56):
You said you joined the army and this is
where you, kind of like, startedlearning a little bit about
finances and your financialjourney.
But you also, you know, had alittle, I guess, financial
mistakes throughout there, causeI know I did at the beginning.
So I want you to go a littlebit into that.
Jhoanna Astudillo (02:16):
Yeah, so, violeta, you know, I moved to
the U?
S and I think it wasn't evenfour weeks after I was here, I
joined the military.
So I started with, you know,and I think many people, even if
they didn't go to the military,they're immigrants can relate
to not knowing the language.
And then you add financialpieces to that right the culture
, nuance, banking we're talkingabout 1999.
(02:39):
So banking, access to bankingin Latin America was not the
same.
It's not the same today as itwas before.
So I knew nothing about it.
Thankfully, I joined with mysister and I still remember, you
know, as you were asking me,when we went through the process
.
You have to set up directdeposit.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
You had to pick up an account,and so we were like looking at
(03:01):
what other people are doing,because we didn't speak the
language as well, we couldn'tunderstand a little bit.
But yeah, that was my firstpaycheck um, and for everybody
that's in the military as aniwan um, it's not a lot of money
, but they take care ofeverything else for you.
You don't have to worry abouthousing, you don't have to worry
about food, you don't have toworry about anything, and so the
(03:23):
money that you get is justreally for you, um, and without
tools and resources and knowinghow to manage you know you, just
you just spend the money.
Uh, also, because you know Igrew up in Ecuador.
We didn't have a lot.
My parents made a lot ofsacrifices, and so I I remember
that one.
Once I got like first paycheck,all I wanted to do was buy
(03:45):
gifts to give back to my family.
I used to go to Ecuador everysummer for a whole month.
I saved all my vacation insuitcases full of gifts for
everybody.
So I think for the first twoyears since where my paycheck
went to, I think I needed tomake up for that, for the memory
of growing up that we didn'thave enough.
(04:06):
You have enough to buy extrapairs of shoes or extra pair of
jeans or extra of this.
It was always, um, I alwaysremember hearing, and I knew how
much of a sacrifice what myparents were making to put us in
private schools becauseeducation is extremely important
to them, and so that was my wayof okay, now I have a little
bit of money, let me show themgratitude for what they have
(04:28):
done, so I didn't save anything.
Violeta Sandoval (04:31):
I think I had the same mentality.
It was like I'm working now andI have, you know, a stable
paycheck, because I rememberlike every Christmas I bought my
dad like a new tv and new TV,or I had bought my mom a stove,
because I felt that need to giveback because of their sacrifice
(04:53):
and all that.
So I definitely relate to that.
Jhoanna Astudillo (04:57):
Ecuador is a little different.
When I was in high school, wenever had jobs.
It's not like here thatteenagers work part time, so
they are getting access to money.
They're making their own moneybabysitting that.
The culture was very differentat that time, and so I also
remember the first time I got myaccount overdrawn I thought I
was in big trouble.
Violeta Sandoval (05:17):
I didn't understand.
Jhoanna Astudillo (05:18):
I got the letter, the fee, but I didn't
know what it meant, like Ireally thought I'm in trouble
for overjoying my account.
So now that I work in the bankI'm like it wasn't that big of a
trouble.
But yes, I wish that I never.
Violeta Sandoval (05:32):
I feel like everybody that goes into the
military has to go through thisexperience of the car dealership
.
So what is your story?
What was your.
Jhoanna Astudillo (05:43):
So my last year in the military I was in
iraq in operation iraqi freedom,and so one of the interesting
things that they have was theyhad a a program that if you put
money aside so that was a smartdecision I made if you put money
aside, the army will matchthose funds for you.
And so I came back back and Ihad like $16,000 saved, and now
(06:08):
it was time to get out of themilitary.
So I knew I needed a vehicle.
I was going to move back toIllinois to go to school.
So I went to the dealership andI was so happy I'd been in the
service for four years and I hadsome credit cards from the
stores because I thought that'show you build credit credit and
they denied the loan to me itwas a Nissan dealership and I
(06:31):
only went to Nissan because,just like any other Hispanic,
especially in that time, youwent with where your uncle went,
the one that lived here thelongest, that knew everything
about everything right.
I went to Nissan because thatwas the right car and they told
me it was denied.
And I said why?
And the answer I will neverforget they told me I was a
(06:53):
ghost in this country aftercoming back from Iraq and
fighting in the war and I saidwhat do you mean?
And I learned that mean.
I don't know that.
I agree fully.
But not having credit is worseas having bad credit.
I think that we can agree todisagree there.
But I didn't have credit.
(07:14):
I only had store credit cards.
I didn't have a bank creditcard.
So then I offered to put halfof the money.
Now I know better today.
I wish I put it in the market.
But I offered to put half ofthe money and I know better
today.
I wish I put it in the market.
But, um, I offered to put halfof the money and I still
couldn't qualify.
I had to had, I think, acosigner to get my vehicle.
My Nissan Sentra 19 no 2004 wasmy first vehicle with a
(07:39):
cosigner paying 50% down becauseI was a ghost in this country.
Violeta Sandoval (07:45):
Oh, man, yeah, I had, I had the same thing.
I was a ghost.
And when you said that and Iread, like your, your, your
whole story, I saw that I waslike, oh, I know how that feels,
cause I went.
Except, I went for a Honda, Iwas going for a Nissan, but I
didn't find one that was likewithin like my price range, I
(08:05):
think.
I forgot what it was, and itwas the same thing.
I didn't have a credit because,of course, you know, my parents
were like don't get into debtwith anything.
So I didn't even have a creditcard ever.
And then I went to the cardealership and, yeah, it was so
hard, it was so hard to get that, that, um, honda, it was like a
(08:26):
2008 Honda Accord you know, myparents didn't live in the US so
they went back.
Jhoanna Astudillo (08:32):
We came here because my aunt had applied for
us, so it was just my brotherand my sister, so not having
parents to live here um it was.
You know it added the difficulty.
Like I said, we had an unclethat he had.
He was very educatedfinancially because he had done
the work for himself but we mybrother and my sister lived with
(08:55):
him for a year so he kind ofwas teaching them some things
but I didn't have that exposure.
But even today I realize itjust is not one conversation.
You don't learn by knowing thatsomebody else has done
something.
It is a culture, it's part of aculture piece and it's a
journey to be able to learn,observe, being exposed to.
(09:15):
So a conversation is not enoughand I didn't have that
knowledge in the military.
So it was pretty, prettyinteresting and interesting
enough to be like that.
I kept that vehicle for like 10years if, yeah, I could not let
go.
Violeta Sandoval (09:31):
It was like we're like no, this cost me way
too much to let it go yes, intears.
Jhoanna Astudillo (09:37):
And you mentioned something that's funny
, that you know.
Growing up, your father saiddon't get in debt.
So I remember my dad.
He used to say if you don'thave money, don't buy it, and
when he came to visit us we wereso happy to tell him.
I think my brother had bought avehicle too and I bought a
vehicle, and so we're like papilook at my car, and you know
what he said to us mijita,that's not your car, that's the
(09:59):
bank's car when you pay for it.
Yeah, yeah waiting on my parade.
I'm so proud of what I'veaccomplished so that mentality
of if you don't have money,don't buy it and then um this is
not yours until you have thetitle.
This is, this is the banks, sokind of that reality oh so.
Violeta Sandoval (10:23):
So what was it like?
Did it take you after that?
Or like I guess was that thepoint where you were like, oh
wow, like I, maybe I shouldstart figuring this money thing
out.
Or like, did it take a littlebit longer?
Jhoanna Astudillo (10:39):
Yeah, I think that it's a journey right being
financial savvy is a journey.
I do think that it was a journey.
Right, being financial savvy isa journey.
I do think that it was astarting point to realize.
But then, without guidance,you're like okay, so how do I
build credit?
I think the starting point wasthat I knew having the vehicle
was going to help me buildcredit, and I still remember
(11:00):
learning that I had the money topay it off, but if I paid it
off completely, I was not goingto bill credit.
So that was also kind of funnyfrom a cultural perspective.
Like I can only bill credit ifI owe you money, but if I pay
you, like if I get the loan andpay you in two months, I'm not
good.
I'm still not good because inorder to bill credit, I have to
(11:20):
owe money, which was thecomplete opposite for me and I'm
like no, it should be that Ipaid off so quickly.
And so then it was like, okay, Ineed to start getting credit
cards.
And I went to college for fouryears.
Again, my parents didn't livehere, so it was on my own.
I traveled to Spain doing I didan internship.
So I got in some debt with thecredit cards, even though the
(11:41):
army kind of helped pay for someof that.
But I was still very young andvery naive and so I think I made
some some good decisions, butthey were not necessarily based
on my financial awareness.
I think it was just decisionsthat I kind of learned from my
mom.
So one of them was when I wasin the military I put extra
(12:02):
money towards the GI bill.
For the ones that don't know isthe font that you get to pay
for your education.
So if you put a little bit ofextra money you could increase
it by like a crazy percentage.
So I did that.
So that helped me a lot incollege.
But yeah, so in college I wasgetting the money from the GI
Bill.
Last Illinois had a program, soIllinois was giving me money,
(12:25):
Illinois was paying my wholeeducation.
I was getting the paycheck fromthe army and I was living in an
apartment that was maybe $300.
So I kind of live a really goodlife.
And I picked up a part-time jobjust to hang out with my
friends, but I was taking mylaundry to the laundromat for
them to do it, because I wantedto save time for myself and I
(12:48):
thought I deserve it.
So really, bad yeah um, I mean,I could have saved money during
that time.
I definitely could have savedmoney because of the income I
was getting and I did, and I gotin debt.
I think when I graduated fromcollege I had had and I'm not
proud of this, I don't think Ihave ever actually shared this
with anyone I had $15,000 indebt.
(13:11):
Oh wow, not education debt,because my college was paid for.
I didn't have to take any loans, but the $15,000 was in credit
card and it was part of theinternship in Spain because the
army didn't pay for that and theinternship didn't pay for it.
I had a really great experience,but I graduated with that and,
(13:34):
interesting enough, I startedworking at the bank and my
husband now, who was myboyfriend, dan, and we started
dating and kind of being seriousdating.
He's not he's not Hispanic andhe said I remember him sitting
down with me and I told him andhe had zero debt, he had worked
(13:57):
like two jobs while he was incollege and he's the first one
that kind of sat down with meand said we're going to do kind
of a set up a process and cause.
I was just paying right, tryingto pay, I think I had three
credit cards and so he, he.
It was the first time somebodytold me no, no, no, you're going
to pay the ones with thehighest rate first, but even
(14:18):
more so having to write it down,violeta it made it real for me
because I think I I hadacknowledgement.
but sometimes we are kind ofscared of make you know, saying
it out loud, because now it'sreal.
I was just kind of paying theminimum payment and when I wrote
it down in a paper it kind ofhit me and it scared me a little
(14:38):
bit.
This was 2003 and I had 15 000in credit card debt and I had
nothing to my name no house, acar than I was four years old
and we created a plan and I paidthat, I think, in less than a
year.
I wasn't I mean, I wasn'tmaking a lot of money, I was a
personal banker, and I thinkthat's when things really
(14:59):
changed for me.
Violeta Sandoval (15:02):
Yeah, sometimes it just takes that
just facing it on because you'reyou think you're doing like
taking action because you werepaying it but it was just the
minimum payment and you could bedoing that for a few years.
But actually sitting down andfacing that fear Cause I know we
(15:24):
and that guilt cause you knowwe deal with that guilt of you
know, making a, a financialdecision that wasn't the best,
but going there and actuallycreating a plan and you ended up
paying it off and you said ayear.
So sometimes we just got toface it.
Jhoanna Astudillo (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, and have a strategy to it, right
.
I had somebody that took thetime and really understood what
it was, as opposed to saying,okay, $15,000, you're going to
pay this much every month.
It was no, let's take a look.
You've got to look and that'swhat we try to do now with our
clients, but you have tounderstand your debt because
sometimes we get into debtwithout understanding and again,
(16:07):
a bad behavior, even while Iwas paying the debt, that
behavior and that relationshipwith money.
My love language was givinggifts and my mom was a giver
it's still a gift I love her.
So, even though I was paying,sometimes I found myself buying
something unnecessary to give tosomebody for their birthday.
I wanted to show my gratitudeand my love through that, and
(16:30):
while going on to Ecuador forvacation, I couldn't go empty
handed so suitcases full ofgifts while I was getting in
debt, because I always thoughtthat I had the need to show them
love and repay for what theydid, even though my parents kept
saying we don't need anything.
We don't need anything and Ithink, a little bit of a healing
(16:50):
too.
You know, I went to a privateschool in Ecuador.
We didn't have as much asothers, and so you have a
paycheck.
I think I was, maybeunfortunately, thinking that
success was not having nicethings and having the nice
purses, and so now I have toshow that I'm successful.
(17:11):
Obviously, today I think verydifferently, but I was 22, 23 at
that time, 26 maybe and so Iwas still spending money and
things that don't add any value.
Violeta Sandoval (17:22):
Yeah, I did the same thing, going and get
the nice, the Gucci shoes andthe little Louis Vuitton bag and
I was like like I sold thatlike last year because it just
sat, it sat in my closet becausethen I was too scared to
actually use it because it costso much.
I was like you know what, I'mjust gonna let it go and um, so,
(17:44):
yeah, I learned a lesson.
I've gotten rid of all thatstuff for the most part, unless
I know I'm actually using it.
Things are starting to come up.
Um, you were mentioning alittle bit earlier and and
through, uh, your story, that Iread that, uh, you're realizing
things that were told to you, orthat you learned, that you're
(18:05):
realizing that you're kind oflike, you know, continuing the
cycle.
Jhoanna Astudillo (18:17):
Yeah, you know one of the things I was
mentioning to you, I think theway I will call it is that
relationship with money and youknow the things that we learned
through it, right?
This idea of having to giveback and the love language,
right, comes from thatrelationship with money.
I think I saw money as a luxurygrowing up, as opposed to as a
resource and a tool.
So I think many, many um of thepeople listening to this
(18:38):
podcast have heard this growingup that money doesn't grow on
trees and dinero no crece losarboles.
No matter where you went or whatyou did, it was like do not
even ask for because we don'thave money.
And the other one was we donnot even ask for because we
don't have money.
And the other one was we don'thave money for that, we don't
have money, we don't have money,we don't have money.
And in reality, again, myparents made a lot of sacrifices
because the money was going foreducation and they were
(19:01):
extremely humble people soanytime you know, my brother and
I joke that people used to cometo visit my mom will say say
thank you so much for coming,like like she was so grateful
that people will come to myhouse because our house was not,
you know, as big and in a greatlocation like others.
But and so subconsciously, youkind of have those ideas.
And so Emilia is today.
(19:22):
She's eight years old now, butI realized when she was like
maybe three and we used to go tothe store before we went in, I
looked at Amelia in the eyes andI said why are we going inside?
We're going to get milk, we'renot going to get toast.
We don't have money for that.
And then money doesn't go ontrees and every time we're going
(19:42):
to go in for this.
And so I remember we were atone of the stores and Amelia
asked if she could have this toy.
And then I look at her in theeyes and I said do you remember
Amelia?
And she will say money doesn'tgo on trees.
And I said we don't have moneyfor that.
And as my husband and I youknow, we budget Again, we have
(20:04):
come a long way.
We have to reset our budgetsfrom time to time as we progress
and we're more successful.
We have to get thingsdifferently.
But as I was looking at my my,the money in my account, and we
do have money for that, we havemoney for that, not credit card
money.
We actually have money.
We have done a really good job.
We have made changes and maybehas an account with money
(20:26):
because she gets gifts and youknow cash and gifts, and so I
don't know what hit me.
I think it was a combination ofthings and maybe being exposed
to clients, but I decided Ineeded to change the narrative.
It's not that we don't havemoney for that.
Should we spend money on that.
That's the real question andthat's the real conversation
(20:48):
with Amelia, and so that starteda journey that it's been
wonderful and she's extremelyengaged and we talk about things
and we even do budget and wecan go into more of that.
But I realized again that Ididn't have a good relationship
with money and then I saw moneyas a luxury.
So when I got some I needed tospend, I needed to showcase,
(21:12):
versus seeing money as a tool.
Violeta Sandoval (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
You said that of how we changethat mindset of money as a
luxury versus as a resource anda tool, because once that kind
of like switched in my brain,like it changed a lot of how I
deal with my finances, how I'minvesting and all that stuff and
(21:38):
uh, the difference is is huge.
So I'm fine with driving.
Right now I have a little 2010Honda Civic and it gets me to
point A and to point B to work,and that's all I needed for we
have my husband's truck for anyother thing.
So I can't bring myself, likeyou said, as like do I need to
(22:02):
spend money on that?
Like do I need to spend moneyon another car when I have one
that's perfect, it's not pretty,but it it works.
And yeah, maybe once we moveback down to Texas, that, um,
then I might go um and buy a car.
But more strategically, andlike I'm not gonna go out and
(22:24):
get a new car.
Um, I've already said I'llnever get a new car.
I just can't, I can't, I can'tdo it.
I don't know why.
Jhoanna Astudillo (22:31):
But yeah, that mindset shift is a game
changer for sure something andit may not be a need, but you
(22:54):
have put money aside for that.
So emilia has her account andwe do chores and we, you know, I
teach her.
You know, for us it's extremelyimportant to give back, but we
give back differently.
It's not giving back just giftsfor people that don't need it.
It's giving back toorganizations that we know are
going to make an impact and foremilia to learn that that you
give some of what you get,especially when you're not doing
anything to get um, and we putmoney aside for vacation.
(23:18):
We're huge in experiences likewe.
We like a really good meal, agood restaurant and bringing a
meal on, so those memories areimportant to us, but we put
money aside for that.
We're not leaving a paycheck bypaycheck or day by day, right?
And so it's been great to seealso her mindset, because we go
(23:39):
to the store and she has moneyin her account and she said can
I buy this?
And I'm like, well, you could,you have money, but let's talk
about why you want it.
And you have 20 teddy bears athome that you don't even play
with.
Now I have to tell you somethingfunny that happened.
So Amelia, maybe six, I don'tknow.
She was still very little.
She came home from school andshe's very intuitive and and a
(24:03):
deep thinker.
But I guess they went throughthis in school and she said to
my husband and I we were sittingthere and she said mommy, do
you know where money comes from?
I'm like what do you mean?
She's like money is it's like,do you know that money comes
from paper?
And we said of course money ismade of paper.
And she said do you know wherepaper comes from?
My husband said trees.
(24:25):
She's like yeah and then shewalked away and him and I look
at each other, we're like, well,I guess money that's come from
trees.
Yeah, oh man, it was so cuteand funny.
But um, you know, I just wantAmelia to have um a healthy
exposure.
I know she's gonna make mistakesand we have to make those
(24:47):
mistakes safe for her um but Ido want her to have a different
relationship with money, becauseI think that when you have a
healthy relationship with money,to your point, you can see
money as a tool, you can invest,you can do a lot of those
things that we were not exposedto, because we just saw money as
a luxury yeah, yeah, I'm.
Violeta Sandoval (25:09):
I'm glad that you you pointed that out of
being okay with, uh, makingfinancial mistakes because you
are going to and, uh, you know,just real quick, as, like a, as
a real estate investor, that'sone of the hardest things, uh,
when I'm out here, you know,promoting real estate investing
and and teaching it to theLatino community, that's one of
(25:33):
the biggest fears is thepotential to make mistakes.
But, like you mentioned, is thatyou set yourself up and provide
a cushion to that if there is amistake or something does go
wrong, because that's thebiggest fear as well or
something does go wrong, becausethat's the biggest fear as well
that you know a tenant doesn'tpay or whatever, and it's like
no, we, you, you invest, butwith that risk in mind and you
(25:55):
set yourself up for that riskthrough an emergency fund, just
like you would for yourself.
You do it for each propertythat you invest in, so that way
you're OK.
If you need to replace the roof, you have those funds there.
Then, rather than it like comeout of nowhere and then you're
scrambling to pay it, and that'swhen that big old fear comes
(26:17):
towards risk and the resistanceto invest.
And, even if it's not realestate investing similar with
the stock market.
Especially with what happenedrecently, I know it kind of like
set a few people back of likehesitating to invest.
So I know in our communitythat's one big thing that we
have to overcome.
Jhoanna Astudillo (26:39):
Oh my gosh, and you know when I mean.
The numbers tell a story 49% ofHispanic Latinos don't own any
investments.
That's one of the best vehiclesto build wealth, because
(27:09):
building wealth takes cyclesright and again.
Financial education andsavviness is a journey I'm still
learning.
I'm still going to makemistakes.
I'm much better off than I wasbefore, but think about that 49
Forty nine percent don't own aninvestment, and part of that is
the culture, is the lack ofawareness.
Many of them don't even putmoney in the 401k, and I was one
(27:31):
of them.
I mean, if I go back and I wishI could look at my younger self
and tell her a different story,but I didn't start putting
money in my 401k until almostone year.
I was working for the bank.
I lost one year and again I wasdating the person that's now my
husband, and I think I did alittle before, because he just
(27:54):
kept telling me Joanna, joanna,you got to do it and I was
losing money because the companywas matching, of course, uh,
but it's just not something thatit's, it's familiar to us, it's
a foreign language, it's youknow, uh.
So any type of investment.
What's so funny, though,billette, if you think about the
immigrant we take.
(28:15):
We're risk takers, just live inour countries.
Yes, yes, I'm glad you broughtthat up.
But then we become, you know.
I think it's because we don'tknow enough and sometimes we're
afraid to ask the question.
We think that we need to knowmore before we do something and
we are not always comfortablewith raising our hand and going
(28:38):
to people like you or people inthe community that can teach
them.
So, um, it's kind of funny tounderstand that paradigm right,
risk takers but at the same time, quite afraid of taking
advantage of those things.
Violeta Sandoval (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a big thing
, that, um, I'm glad youmentioned it because it is true.
It's like you know, we, we willtake the biggest risk of
leaving a country to anothercountry where most of the time,
they don't even know thelanguage yet.
You know they have to learn thelanguage when they get here, or
(29:12):
at least you know.
Uh, sometimes they still don't.
Like, my mom is still kind oflike iffy with with english.
She could understand it, butlike she's still not after being
here like 30, over 30 years atthis point.
Um, but when it comes for herto do anything regarding her
money, like she it's so it's sohard to get her and and similar
(29:37):
a little bit.
My dad's a little bit easier,but he still has his kind of
like uh, hesitation andeverything like that.
But, yeah, we take, took thebiggest risk, but now with money
, it is like I'm not, I'm doingeverything the safe way and um
yeah, which is a great.
(29:57):
You know like um, you know, tokind of like wrap it up, going
into, uh, we were talking aboutBe Okay and we were mentioning I
can't remember if we wererecording at that time, but we
were talking about the resourcesand and you mentioned that it
is the Hispanic segment, and soI want to get know a little bit
(30:20):
about that, because it's soimportant and I'm glad that BOK
is actually, you know,implementing that because we
need it.
Jhoanna Astudillo (30:32):
So I wanted for you to share a little bit
about that.
Absolutely, I know I have tosay first that you know I have
my dream job and you know, noteverybody can say that.
So I think we're very blessed.
Violeta Sandoval (30:42):
So I work with .
Jhoanna Astudillo (30:43):
Bank of Oklahoma here in Tulsa, but it's
part of BOKF, so we're in manystates.
In other states we have thelocal name, like Bank of Texas,
OK, and then BOKF and someothers.
So this job started as aproject, working on a project
with different individuals tosee how we were supporting the
(31:04):
Hispanic Latino community, andthen a job was created, and so
it's a multi-year strategy andone of the things that you know,
as I was mentioning, theHispanic demographic is a
growing, it's a powerhouse.
It's a growing segment, is agrowing segment.
Last year it was shared that ifthe Hispanic Latinos were a
(31:25):
standalone country in the US, wewould be like either the fourth
or fifth GDP in the world 4.4million businesses owned by
Latinos.
We contribute $800 billion tothe economy, and so you know I
want to make sure people knowthis is not necessarily a
diversity strategy.
This is a business strategy.
We want to take it to thegrowth of the community and also
(31:49):
, at the same time, Bank ofOklahoma, BOPF has always had a
commitment to advance thecommunities that we serve, and
so those things go hand in handfor us.
So you know, creating.
We want to be the bank ofchoice for Latinos.
My goal is to help Latinoindividuals, help them build
(32:09):
wealth and become financiallyindependent.
And so different pieces in thestrategy, but the crucial one,
Violeta, is financial educationregardless of the segmentation
within the hispanic latinocommunity.
we're not a monolithic community.
We come in different shapes.
We have affluent clients withfluent business uh, businesses
(32:30):
but we also have entrepreneursthat are just starting.
We have emerging people who arejust emerging right and the
youth 1 million latinos areturning 18 every, and we expect
that for the next two decades.
So I mean, just think about thepowerhouse right.
And so we take that with ourcommunity relations very
(32:52):
seriously.
And so I learned that April isFinancial Inclusion Month, so we
do workshops across the country, but in Tulsa, we're going to
have four workshops in April,three of them in Spanish,
regarding identity theft, whichunfortunately, our community is
very exposed to.
And then you know how to createan emergency fund, and this is
(33:15):
geared to anyone, whether you'rea personal client, business
client, or if you're not aclient, you can attend anyone.
Whether you're a personalclient, business client, or if
you're not a client, you canattend.
We're planning on doing some ofthose virtually, so we can, you
know, attract people even inother places.
But, like I said, we havepeople in every market where we
are located, and so we'll bedoing some of those as well.
But financial education isabsolutely key.
Violeta Sandoval (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm glad that you're takingthat initiative and providing
those resources, and especiallywith the identity theft, I
always forget about that one,because you're right, like I
could imagine, like I alwaysthink about, like, my parents
it's like you know, at any pointthey because they don't know,
(34:00):
they don't know, like, howdocuments work, and especially,
you know, like, growing up, Iwas the one that like translated
everything for them, so theyrely on me to this day Like I'm
currently visiting my family andmy dad already had a stack of
papers for me and it's like Igot this, I got this.
I was like, okay, this is this,I got this, I got this.
I was like, okay, this is thisand this is that, and blah, blah
(34:22):
, blah.
So I could see how for surethat puts them at risk.
So I'm glad that y'all have aworkshop for that as well, cause
I didn't even think about thataspect as well.
Jhoanna Astudillo (34:38):
Yeah, and it's.
You know, I work with a lot ofnonprofit organizations locally.
So two of those are going to bedone with Avanzando Juntos, and
we do a lot of work withnonprofits Because you know,
violeta, you know when I thinkabout the work we do.
One of the pieces for me, andthe leadership in the bank, is
(34:59):
we want to be very intentional,so it's understanding what's the
real need and where can we addvalue, because we are not going
to add value everywhere.
And so, working with localnonprofits and I said this to
the people listening to you ifyou're in a leadership position,
find those organizations thatalready have influence, not only
because of the influence,because they know the community,
(35:20):
and so you're going to be ableto be more effective, addressing
the needs that they havealready identified and using the
infrastructure that they have.
Well, you can provide the toolsand resources that they need,
such as bilingual people thathave knowledge in the finance
world.
Sometimes even, you know, maybethey can do donations for their
operational costs, and so Ithink that those because you
(35:43):
have to think how am I going tobe more effective so I can reach
as many people to help withwhat the mission is.
So we do a lot of work withlocal nonprofits, and then we
also, obviously, do a lot ofwork through the branches, you
know.
Work with your personal banker.
That's what they're there for.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
That's that's their role,that's their job, right?
(36:05):
Um, I can imagine, though,violeta, how hard it is to try
to change the mindset.
Like you say, your mom and yourdad, and I tell you, it
happened to me many times,because I think, for a lot of
immigrants, especially the thefirst generation foreign born,
like your parents, you rememberour country and our customs, the
(36:27):
way we left them, and we don'tsee them involved.
So we sometimes try to repeatthe same things that we knew,
because we think that ourcountries are still doing the
same thing.
And when I went to ecuador andsaw the banking system today, I
was blown away because it haschanged.
So I have tried to rememberthat when I'm raising my
(36:49):
daughter, because you knowEcuador has changed.
I can't continue to try to dothe same things I did there over
20 years ago, but I thinkthat's what we carry over 20
years ago.
But I think that's what wecarry and also what I see from
our a lot of the people that Iwork with I serve in non-profit
(37:10):
organizations as well the trust,the lack of trust of clients
with your financial institutions.
Here sometimes it reallydoesn't have much to do with
what the financial institutionsdo, it's more the lack of trust
based of their experience athome.
Yes, both of what happened intheir home countries and because
of the lack of regulations, andso we gotta understand that.
(37:32):
It's almost like they havetrauma the same way we did, but
even more so.
So we have to be mindful ofthat to be able to help.
Violeta Sandoval (37:39):
You're not just teaching a class, changing
a mindset yeah, you know what Idid, I, I, I guess I never
considered it that way, but asyou were talking about it, it
did bring to mind of how myparents because, yeah, my mom
always talks about, you know,mexico, this and this, and that
(38:02):
I was like, like, and she goesand visits it, but, um, she only
goes to like her hometown andthen that's it.
But I've gone, uh, throughoutMexico as I reconnect to my
roots.
So I've been going around, tryto go visit different parts of
Mexico, and I'm seeing thosechanges.
And even with my dad now, atfirst they would always, I do
(38:24):
remember them mentioning aboutthe banks of Mexico and all this
stuff, and now they've done so,like improved so much that now,
like they have, like he's, he'sgetting the retirement over
there now too, because now he mydad's 65 now, so he's able to
be eligible, and so he's beengoing back and forth and he's
(38:46):
like, every time he comes backhe's like, wow, like you know,
now they put it like in thislittle card, just like over here
and everything, and it's like,um, yeah, I could see now what
you were talking about and itdidn't occur to me of that's
kind of like where it stems fromfor them yeah, and I think you
(39:06):
know when I think of financialeducation.
Jhoanna Astudillo (39:08):
I serve in the board of three organizations
, so I do a lot of work withthem to develop business
entrepreneurs as well, and theymake and the immigrants are not
all the same.
You, you know, when you startlooking at, you know, in a class
in the past, in the stateswhere I worked, always the
largest population of attendeesof any class were from Mexican
(39:32):
descendants right, firstgeneration, maybe second, maybe
first generation born.
But now I sit in a class and80% are Venezuelans, 10% Mexican
, and then in the next class,90% are Mexican.
So, but you have a lot of morecultures and then you have
different degrees of education.
The people that we meet with,business entrepreneurs a lot of
(39:55):
them are graduated not only fromhigh school but from college.
So it's a very differentaudience, violeta, and that's
why I think it's important.
You know, when you think aboutdoing financial education, I
think the first thing is todefine what do you want the
outcome to be, what do you wantto help these people accomplish?
Right, because it's for them,it's not for us and then realize
(40:15):
that somebody told me this andit was very powerful there will
always be a first generation ofimmigrants.
But that first generation isnot going to look the same.
Yeah, they're more educated, um,many of them have access to
banking in their home countries,but the culture nuance is going
to be different.
So, um, we still need to helpthem, but we got to kind of
(40:38):
think a little different and Ithink the power of working with
local people is it's um has beenvery great for us before I
close the episode um, where canthey go and look for these
workshops, like is on thewebsite, or where can they find
them?
yes, so we post in social media.
(40:58):
So, um, like I said, you can goand find us on LinkedIn or you
can go to a website and youeither look from Bank of
Oklahoma if you're in Oklahoma,and then we also post those
workshops in social media and Ithink we're going to be adding
to our local sites for clientsand non-clients.
(41:19):
But they can search Once.
Violeta Sandoval (41:21):
once we post in social media, we will give
them the link and they can findthe workshops that we are
working on okay, awesome, I'llmake sure to put all that those
links to your linkedin and, um,all the social media platforms
that you have in the website uh,down in the show notes or in
the description, depending on ifyou're watching on YouTube or
(41:49):
you know regular like Spotify orwhatever.
But yeah, thank you so much,joanna, for coming on here.
I learned a lot and a lot ofthings to consider for in the
future to help our community,and I'm super excited that you
know the blank, blank Bank ofOklahoma is out here, you know
doing these things and havingthese resources for our
(42:09):
community.
So thank you so much for youknow coming here done and I am
learning so much Again.
Jhoanna Astudillo (42:25):
I love the chisme and name to it and for
giving us that voice and thatopportunity to help others.
you know you and I, as weconnected, have some so many
similar things that happen, andI'm sure that people listening
to do as well.
But I think you know what whatI will share with them is you've
got to take the first step.
It's never too late.
You're going to take the firststep, leverage the resources.
You don't have to do this onyour own, but you do have the
(42:48):
opportunity to create and changethat cycle, not just for
yourself, but for your kids aswell.
So thank you again, violeta,for the opportunity.
Muchísimas gracias.
Violeta Sandoval (43:00):
Thank you.
Well, that's it for thisepisode.
I will see everyone in the nextone.
Bye, bye-bye.
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