September 30, 2023 • 45 mins
Hi friends, today's episode was extremely difficult and emotional to record. We hope you'll listen with an open heart and mind as Shelly and I embark upon the next adventure of our podcast and our lives. We also want to thank T and Ophelia, current members of the LDS church, for bravely sending in their letters. We appreciate everyone's participation, love and support. It means the world to both of us!
Music provided by Purple Planet: https://www.purple-planet.com.
Music provided by Purple Planet: https://www.purple-planet.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Uh, how do we start this? In this episode, we have an
announcement. We do, Shelley andI have news. Don't panic, it's
okay, it's okay. And thenafter we share our news, we are
going to read a couple of listenerletters today. I love the listener letters.
(00:21):
M Yeah, I think it's beena little while. Yeah, these
are both from current Mormons, notfor long. Oh sorry, members of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. Don't use that wind for
Satan. Nope. All right,let's take a break and then get into
it when get back. All right, Hey, everybody, welcome to Latter
(00:42):
Day Lesbian, the podcast about thenext Mormon gay girl just trying to figure
out a life. My name isMary, my name is Shelley, and
I'm a little bit under the weather. So if i sound a little you
know, deeper voice, sexy,or than normal, that's why. Also,
we are not our studio today.We're down at one of the airbnbs
(01:03):
and the sound is not great,right, so quit your bitch in.
We're doing our best. Dan hatesthese travel Mike. Sorry Dan, Dan,
Well, there's a weird EQ thing. I don't know what you just
said. Righty eq element op isgonna be way off. Yeah, it's
gonna be kind of funky, Okay. We have put this off as long
(01:25):
as possible, Yes, because oflots of reasons. Trying to figure out
what the future holds, right isone of them. Trying to get over
the pain is another. Everyone's veryalarmed right now. Mary and I have
broken up. It's not a joke, it's not April Fools. It's true.
(01:47):
We broke up. I don't know, two months ago now, I
want to say, yeah, overthe summer. Over the summer and we
just kind of had to take abreak from the podcasting just to work through
everything. We don't want to getinto details about the breakup. It's personal,
of course, but I just wanteveryone to know that A there was
no infidelity, and for some reasonfor me, like in the Mormon world,
(02:12):
when someone breaks up, divorces orwhatever, my first thought was always
somebody cheated or somebody left the church, and good thing they divorced. I
know it's fucked up. Well,I left the church a long time.
I guess you did, so didI did? I did not that church
though, different church. Right.In case you're listening for the first time
(02:34):
any people are bottom and go backback to the beginning one. I know,
Jesus, so in the last coupleof months, it's been hard on
both of us. We both knowand understand that we needed to take that
relationship break not like break up.Not we're on a break like breakup,
(02:59):
and we had to take time apartand figure it all out. Sure,
yeah, I mean, you don'tjust like break up and everything's great.
Me being the more And this isnot a diss on you, Me being
the more feeling one, I guessbecause I'm cold and dead and side.
No. No, because I'm theone that gets devastated by everything. That's
just who I am. You areall up in your fields, I am.
(03:21):
I am so in all honesty,it was very hard for me.
My mom got sick and passed awayall in the same week. I would
say, very bad timing, horribletiming. Yeah, but what do you
do. It's like, you breakup and then my mom dies, and
then do we say, never mind, let's get back together while you work
through your mom grief and then we'llbreak up Like that's it's I mean,
(03:43):
our cat was out of the bagfor us, and then your mom got
second passed and it was just badtime. It was bad. It was
bad. So the one two punchfor me losing Mary as my girlfriend and
losing my mom as my mom definitelyput me in a spiral of massive depression,
massive anxiety that I haven't felt ina long time there, And I'm
(04:09):
just gonna throw those out there.I guess we need to trigger warning.
Suicide ideation, I guess is ourtrigger warning there. I definitely was in
a very bad, unsafe place there, And you know, I'm just laying
this out there for you people becausethat's what we do. Sure, the
breakup basically happened in Mary's apartment,and I don't think I would have done
(04:35):
anything, because I didn't. Butwhen I get to that point, it's
like my brain starts the panic anddoesn't think logically and was like, you
know, Shelley, Mary lives onthe sixth floor. There's a balcony.
It wouldn't be that hard to justgo take a leap and make make it
(04:57):
stop hurting. I didn't know you. I mean, that's not considered an
active plan. No, it was. I was having the impulses, which,
by the way, talking to adoctor after that, you checked yourself
into an AR. Yeah. Sowhen I checked into the AR, and
that was probably the next day,she told me most people don't make plans.
(05:18):
Most people it's impulsive and they can'thandle it and they do something that
they wouldn't necessarily have done if theycould have sat and talked it through or
whatever. So whether or not Iwould have done that, I don't know,
who knows, But I recognize thatthose thoughts were coming in and I
(05:38):
knew it wasn't good, and soI spent probably the next day. Gosh,
for sure, the next day washorrible, but it was non stop
grief and crying and wailing and justwanting to get away from all these feelings.
And by the way, Mary,you were very sweet and very kind
(05:59):
and try to help me. Ididn't leave your side for like three days.
No, you didn't, And youalso had a lot of support from
a lot of friends. I did. I figured I'd get a little hearing
on this, but yeah, I'mjust kind of going back there in my
mind and it's not happy, Yeah, I know. So yeah, the
(06:26):
next day when I was just ina horrible place, you know, wailing
out loud, just not being ableto handle anything, and kind of rocking
back and forth and just major anxiety. The neighbors. I can't believe they
didn't call the cops because it wasn'tlike quiet wailing. It was like grief
morning. Anyway, my daughter Genevievewas home, thank god. Well actually
(06:48):
she was at work a lot ofthe day, but she knew what had
happened, and she knew I wasin a real shitty place. And she
would text me like every hour,Mom, how are you doing? Are
you okay? Yeah? My kidsthey're just oh, they're amazing humans.
And one time I just text herand I said, Genevieve, I'm not
I'm not good. I'm I'm notgood. I'm scared. And she came
(07:11):
home right away. And I wasalso talking to Kimberly and Jess are therapist
friends, and they were very helpfulwith me understanding like the danger of what
was going on. Right, andthey're making all these calls trying to find
a facilitate for you as Yeah,they knew it was bad. And I
remember Kimberly asked, are you safe? And I said I don't think so,
(07:35):
and she said you need to goto the hospital, and I agreed,
I'm like, yes, for sure. Genevieve came home when she took
me to the hospital and Mary metme there. They wouldn't even let me
go back there. Those assholes Iknow well because Genevieve was back there with
them one visitor of time. Andby the way, there actually wasn't room
(07:57):
for you in there because I onlymade it to a like a gurney,
not that they had to wheel mesomewhere because I couldn't walk, but they
had me laid down on a gurneyin the hall while they talked to me
and asked me questions. And itseems an appropriate place for all that.
Yeah, just in some hallway,I know, like, oh, I
feel so cared for. But thegreat thing, this is my private ship
(08:22):
that I need to talk about.I know they're asking me out loud if
I'm making plans to kill myself,and you know where everyone's listening up together
around we're about to start a podcast. So what was slightly entertaining? But
I guess I shouldn't have been entertainedbecause it's sad. But in the room
like connecting to the hall where Iwas, there was a person there because
(08:48):
I eaves dropped very well. Thedoctors assumed he had taken way too many
meds, like on purpose, buthe was irritable. He was yelling,
he was trying to, you know, throw things around, and so they
had I'm not exaggerating, at leastten security officers, some in the room,
some standing in the hall. SoI felt very safe. I don't
(09:11):
know, but it was kind ofnice. I don't know. It sounds
horrible to say it was nice tohave the distraction of someone else who was
suffering, but whatever, it is, what it is. Mary met me
back in the waiting room because thedoctors wanted to admit me into that hospital.
There for like seventy two hour watch, and I just didn't want to
be there. I just felt Ididn't want to be without my people,
(09:33):
you know, I didn't want tobe confined to some place. Anyway,
Mary met me, she brought mehome. Genevieve went back home in my
car, and no, you stayedwith me for a while. Yeah,
you did, and it was Iwanted to make sure you're okay. I
know, I love you. Ilove you too so much. That hasn't
(09:54):
changed, you know, never willnever. Sometimes you just have to make
the really hard decisions in life.Yes, and Marriott was the right decision.
I know. For the first fewweeks I was just like a fucking
train wreck. And I am gladthat you stood strong and the resolve that
this needs to be ended. Asfar as the girlfriend relationship, but we're
(10:18):
still podcasting partners and business partners.For sure. We're like best friends.
I mean we're I don't have anyless love for you. I really don't
say thank you. So after thehospital experience, I was trying to check
myself into like a mental therapy rehab, like an inpatient day thirty right,
(10:41):
what do they call it? Isit called inpatient? Like where you living
here? I think so, becausein my mind I knew I needed to
work on myself. I knew Ineeded to get away from everything. I
just needed separation. I didn't knowwhat to do. I just wanted to
run, and so to me,this was my my I'm going to run
away and get better and then comeback to my life. I'm gonna say,
(11:05):
fortunately, at this point, myinsurance wouldn't pay for it. Yeah,
your insurance sucks. Sorry, Kaiser. You know it's funny about that
too, looking back, is thatI finally got a call back from Kaiser
to talk about what I was wanting, and the lady that was talking to
me, she had looked up therehab facility on the internet because it was,
(11:28):
you know, about an hour awayfrom where I lived, the kids
could visit blah blah blah. Andshe was like, yeah, we don't
pay for that. That looks likea really nice place. Like you bitch,
I think I'm trying to go onvacation, Like what the fuck?
That was kind of funny, butand I'm gonna let you talk in a
minute, Mary. Sorry's getting usall out that some thing's never change,
(11:50):
even broken up. You know,I'm still me, You're still you.
Yep, I'm still a sidekick ona podcast over here. No, just
a co hot on a podcast whoseco host talks a lot Israel Jetty totally
blah blah blah. Kiser sucks.But the reason that I was looking back
glad is because it was right aroundthat time when when I was trying to
(12:16):
get in and I didn't know thatthey weren't going to let me in because
it's too nice or whatever the fuckwas when I found out that my mom
had a couple of weeks left,maybe it and in my mind. I
was on the waitlist to get intoone of these facilities. I hadn't found
out yet the Kaiser was a pieceof shit, and I had to make
the decision do I go out andsee my mom or if the a bed
(12:39):
opens up for me, because theseplaces are very hard to get into.
If a bed opens up for me, is it the better choice to just
go to the facility and start myrecovery right? And I went back and
forth on a little bit. Idid, and actually I didn't even hear
back from Kaiser until after I hadmade the decision I need to go see
my mom. I was told thatmy mom had a couple of weeks left,
(13:03):
and I flew out and I gotthere in the morning. It's like
the very next morning that I foundout, and I was able to spend
time with her and we talked abouta lot of this. I don't you
know. At this point, Kimberlyand I have been podcasting about my experience
in Utah with my family and thefuneral, and at this point, I
don't know if that episode will havecome out by now. Probably we're going
(13:24):
to release this one first, okay, and you have to release part two
of that and record rather part twoof that. Yeah, so the detailed
story is coming. Don't worry.I'm I'm not brushing over good stuff,
but I'm just saying that I amso glad that I went out there to
see my mom. She died thevery next morning after I got there,
and all the experiences they had throughthat entire time with my two brothers that
(13:48):
I'm close with, and helping mydad understand what was going on he has
severe dementia now, and being ableto hold my mom's hand, like God,
if I would have missed that,yeah, and I wouldn't have known
how much I would have missed,But after gone through it, I'm like
I would that those are moments inmy life that are etched in my brain,
(14:09):
etched in my heart, and Iwould literally be less of a person
had I not had that experience.Well, and you can go into more
details about that on the podcast episodescenter are going to be coming up,
But the rest of us here we'rereally worried about you making that choice to
go to Utah because you didn't seemokay, right right. I wasn't,
(14:33):
but it was like, fuck,I gotta go see my mom. I
bought a one way ticket, andI had decided to like, if I
got the phone called that there's abed ready, I would have come back.
And because I just wanted to gosee her one more time, right,
it was so good for me tobe there and have a distraction from
our breakup. I mean, Iwas still horribly sad and grieving and I
(14:54):
cried every day. But being therewith my mom and her laugh hours and
spending time with my two brothers thatI like and we could all grieve together
and make jokes and make each otherlaugh. I needed that. That was
that was so good for me todo, and I'm so glad that I
did that, you know, cameback the Funeral's funeral was like three weeks
(15:15):
later, and they had to keepmy mom on ice before before we could
get everybody out there, all thefamily out there for the funeral. But
that's the funeral part that's in theMe and Kimberly podcast, you know.
But coming back again so hard.We kind of distanced ourselves from each other.
It was needed. We still talkevery day and at this point,
(15:37):
obviously because we're podcasting together again,we're in a really good place, I
know, and I'm amazed I'm amazedis because I'm amazing. Well, you
had mentioned a long time ago thatif we ever did break up, you
couldn't have me in your life anymore. I was terrifying for me. Yeah,
I felt that way then, andI didn't want to lose you.
(16:00):
I know. Yeah, I getit. I get it saying those things
back then, I meant them,sure, you know. But now that
here we are, God, Ican't imagine being without you in my life.
Say yeah, so now that we'veworked through, Another thing about us
and about Mary that I love isthat we were able to have a lot
(16:22):
of good conversations about the relationship andwhat had happened and what was good and
what didn't work. And I thinkthat maybe, well, most of the
people I know after breakups, they'rejust pissed and they don't really talk.
It's just like, well, fuckyou, fuck you, you did this,
you did that. And Mary andI have been able to just sit
(16:44):
and I've been able to cry becausethat's what I do, and just talk
it out. We're also hella old. I don't have the energy to be
angry well, and I like totalk with Age potentially comes wisdom, not
always, but sometimes luckily for us. I think we did a lot of
learning about ourselves. Yeah, Iknow you did. I know I did
(17:07):
too. But from our talking Iwent into therapy. Oh you had exactly
Yeah, And don't you have anappointment coming up? I do. I
went to like three back to backdays of therapy right after the breakup,
and then I went to Utah.And now I'm set up with a therapist
that I've gone to before that Ireally love. Good. Not that I
didn't like the one before, butI don't. I don't know. Whatever
(17:27):
you find your therapists is our point, right, And therapy is good.
Yes, therapy is good. Butagain, being able to sit down with
Mary and still have that same lovework for the grief of knowing it's different
now, but being able to talkabout and to apologize to each other.
(17:51):
Yeah, to be able to bringsomething up Mary, this hurt me,
blah blah blah. You think aboutit, You're like, wow, I
didn't mean that to hurt you insuch a way. I'm sorry. And
having all those back and forth apologiesand understandings, it's just kind of beautiful,
honestly, I know. I lovethat we were able to just talk
through everything. And process it.Multiple conversations as many as it took,
(18:15):
and all the time texts sometimes youwere here for it as many as many
conversations as it took to feel betterright and get everything said. And it's
not easy. Oh god, thiswere hard conversations. Wow, like being
you know, we've always been honestwith each other, but there were some
things where I don't know if wewant to say the honesty was less or
(18:38):
guarded because we didn't want to hurtthe other kind of I mean we kind
of say what was going on,but not necessarily in a way that we
understood how dire, yes, howdire, how much whatever was going on
was hurting, just kind of hey, this is what's up. And but
(18:59):
we really went there. We reallywent there, and I think that helped
both of us understand why the fallingapart of the relationship. I don't know.
Again, I'm like, I don'twant to go into the wise.
We're just it just is and nowit's great truly. Like Mary said,
we're down at the river right now. This is our first podcast we've done
since the breakup. I wasn't readyto podcast, and I actually had someone
(19:22):
would so if I don't want todo the podcast because of the hurt and
how weird it would be and howI would probably be so sad. But
I went back and listened to acouple of the earlier podcasts, and in
those there were some letters that wehad read from people who wrote in and
just fucking hit me like a tonof bricks, like people are hurting,
(19:47):
people need to hear us and tohelp. And I'm like, I don't
want to stop this. Y Ienjoy I love the podcast. Be it.
It does good for the world.And so Michael, I think also
started to interrupt you. I'm talkingto your ability to be vulnerable and put
(20:08):
it all out there is inspirational toa lot of people who maybe haven't had
that opportunity. You know, absolutelyno, I think it gives people courage
to be authentic with who they are, you know, right, I know
you and I had a discussion abouthow do we tell the listeners that we
(20:29):
broke up, and in my extremegrief, I was just like, just
stop the podcast. Done, wedisappear. You know, obviously we've worked
through that. I was I wasnot great. No, you weren't in
a good place. I was not. But we we talked about like,
you know what, honestly most relationshipsend. Are we letting people down right
now with that cold trip. Statisticallyspeaking, divorces over fifty percent, and
(20:53):
so to pretend like this relationship wasperfect and to just drop it at the
you know, when we break up, I think that does a disservice to
our listeners because we want to talkabout how things are now. We want
to talk about how we worked throughit. We want to talk about those
those things because I think it matters. Also, I have reframed what this
(21:17):
breakup is. You can look atbreakups as a failure, and I do
not at all look at the relationshipas a failure. The fact that we
broke up showing that that was afailure. No, nothing about this,
meeting you, loving you, startingthe podcast, everything that led us to
(21:38):
this point. None of it waswrong. None of it was a failure.
I don't want to do over forany of it. I don't.
I don't regret a single moment ofit. Right, it took me a
little longer to get there, Iunderstand, because you know me, I'm
a feeler. I'm there now,I really honestly am. I think in
(22:00):
our six years almost six years whatever, we have had amazing times. We've
helped each other through some very hardthings. We have this podcast that I
know has been life changing for somany people, and I've loved doing with
you. So yeah, that's that'swhere we are. Did you want to
add anything else to that? No, I think I said it, you
(22:22):
did. I said it a lotmore. The podcast is continuing. We
want to make sure you all realizethat we're not done. No, we
just took a big gass break,and honestly, I know we've been way
less than weekly for a while,I'll say, but I think a lot
of it was just the build upof the stress and pressure in the relationship
(22:44):
and just you know, being unhappy, yeah, and not knowing what to
do about it. I still don'tthink we're going to be able to get
back to weekly only because you're sobusy, right with kids in like twenty
five jobs. I think up toa lot getting us in the same place
at the same time. It's challenging, it is, it is, but
(23:04):
we're not stopping. No, no, no, And now that I'm to
a place where I'm like, fuck, yeah, we're gonna keep doing the
podcast, am I am most definitelymore motivated to get together and do this
thing again. It's not we weekly, it might be monthly. I don't
know. We might do a bunchin two weeks and then we might not
do anything for a while. Itdoesn't matter. We're going to do things
(23:25):
on our own time and things thatdon't stress us out, because the last
thing we need is more stress.But because we really want to give a
good product out to you all,absolutely and folks who enjoyed the last time
we were on god Awful Movies talkingabout Charlie God, that was so god
awful. We released some of thosevideos on Patreon. We haven't yet.
(23:49):
Well, maybe by the time thiscomes up, those videos will be up.
I've been a little bit busy,but we're gonna be on god Awful
Movies again. Look, yeah,what's the name of the movie. Maybe
these people want to watch it andit's not a Mormid movie. But I
can I can rip apart any fuckingreligions. I don't. I don't know
anything about this movie. We stillhave to watch it. It's called Unwanted
(24:10):
Presence presents not like gifts right likethings around you think you can look it
up on YouTube. Yeah, it'sa YouTube one. I don't think it
made it to like IMAX didn't.I could check check check on IMDb see
if it was in the IX Charlie'stheron and that. Now I'm just doubtful.
Yeah, but that's supposed to comeout the tenth of October. That's
(24:32):
when they're going to drop the episode, the god awful podcast episode with us,
So we'll still be showing up hereand there if if you're not getting
your fill of LDL, I'm hearingabout some people whore going back to the
beginning and were listening to Oh,I'm so sorry, will start over,
and that's actually awesome. Do it? You might have missed some good shit.
You might have been laughing so hardat one joke that you missed the
(24:55):
one I dropped right after Oh,because they were laughing at my joke.
Oh wow, crickets, I know, Dan, Please don't serve crickets on
that one. That was fucking awesome. That needs a good cricket. That
is funny. Well, I'm lookingat the clock and thinking we should probably
get to the letters. We takea break first. Yeah, we're gonna
(25:15):
take a break. Is there anythingelse you wanted to say before we take
our break. I just want toreiterate again that Mary and I are happy.
We've moved through the grief stage.I know that healing isn't linear.
You know, I might cry oncea while. Mary might hit a wall
where she's like, fuck, thatwill be the extent of my emotions.
Yeah, fuck, then back towork. But we are like, well,
(25:41):
shit, shit, but we loveeach other. We spend time together,
like we're here at the river rightnow, together in the same house,
and it's good. We've really enjoybeing around each other. We do,
so I think we're getting the bestof everything right now. You know,
we can work on our own shit, we can be in each other's
(26:02):
lives. We can still podcast,you know, we can go out to
eat whatever. But we're also freeof the stress in all the things that
we're happening in the relationships. I'mhappy. Yeah, So nobody do a
favor. Nobody take team Shelley teamMary sides on this one. We're in
it together, although I know itwould be team Shelley. I'm fucking around.
(26:27):
Yes, we are the team.Yeah, we are still a team.
It's still not about the toaster ebbins, but we are still a fucking
team one day, I'll night whenyou over on that score. Hmmmm.
Well all right, let's go aheadand take our break, and when we
come back, we have a listenerletter. Let's do it. Be right
back and we're back here we are, okay, So I'm going to read
(26:52):
one, and then Shelley, we'llread one. I've changed both their names
just in case this person I changedtheir name to tea like the tea drink
could be ok or just the letterT green tea possibly Okay, green tea,
go try T, says dear latterday Lesbian. Hey, that's us,
(27:12):
always will be. I wanted tothank you so much for the podcast
that both of you do. HearingShelley's story and listening to Mary's thoughts have
helped me so much in my life. I've recently discovered the podcast. I
started binging it from the first episode, Way to Go all the way to
the most recent one. By theway, this letter, I know it's
(27:34):
I think it's I think it's beena while. Oh it's a couple of
years. So she thought she wasdone, but guess what, two more
years there's more keep going. Iwanted to thank you for helping me get
through my life and for just everythingyou two do. See I know,
see, Okay, I hope Idon't offend you with this, but I
(27:56):
am a Mormons. The fuck iswrong. Now we're going to actually reply
to that letter. We're going toneed an update for sure. Yet I
agree with every single thing you've said. I completely agree with your thoughts and
with everything you said about tithing andprophets and meetings, etc. I've always
questioned my sexuality, and hearing thispodcast, hearing Shelley share her story,
(28:22):
it has helped me come to termswith who I am and who I like.
Thank you. And while I wouldlove to be who I am,
love who I love and get out, I know my parents, whoever pretty
stronghold over my life, will notaccept me. Does t say how old
she is? They I don't knowwhat the wait for it, I'm not
sure sorry, and will not allowme to be who I want to be,
(28:48):
and they will hate me and everyoneI know will hate me, and
I'm scared to take a stand.Oh God, been there. I'm so
sorry. That is such a hardplace to be in In it, Yeah,
it feels like I'm trapped with fewdecisions, especially because if I want
to go to college. Okay,so she's young. I have to go
(29:10):
to a church school otherwise they won'tpay or let me go. God,
I'm thinking, B where you Idaho? Or B y u fucking provo?
I hate that. Yeah, yougo over someone's head, right, you
go to church school, or you'repaying on your own right to the line.
Yep, you know. I thinkJesus was really into extortion, pretty
(29:30):
sure? Yeah, have you readthe New Testament? The extortion is Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints. It'sapplicable to that version. Sure, I
hate that, but hearing the podcasthas inspired me and always makes my day.
(29:52):
Writer. I love that I've donestuff that isn't contrary to what people
teach, and I've seen how peoplein the church isolate those people, I
guess, the ones who are contrary. Yeah, don't fucking pierce your nose.
Saw how that went down for me, shouldn't do it. So I've
always been afraid and terrified, notjust afraid, but terrified, Shelley,
(30:12):
but hearing you tell your story hasmade me feel less alone. So thank
you, You're welcome. Thank youso much Mary and Shelley for everything you've
done. And I hope you guyscontinue to do the podcast. Oh we
are. Don't you worry about that, because it is truly amazing. I
love your podcast and keep being you. Sincerely, te Oh Tea, thank
(30:34):
you. I know what a lovelyletter. I'm so sorry you feel stuck.
You feel trapped. You feel likeyou have to do exactly everything that
your parents are telling you to do, and other maybe friends and family members.
I hate that for you. Thatsucks. You know, it's hard
enough to feel that when you arean adult, but to feel that when
you are still living under your parentsroof and they are the money holders,
(30:57):
and they are they hold, theyhold all of the decision like it just
fucking sucks. It sucks, andI'm so sorry. Yeah, same,
I put mark that email when I'mgoing to reply finally and get an update.
Okay, how about that? Thatsounds good to Green Tea. I
(31:18):
believe it's she her pronounced be goodto see what the update is on her
life? Yes, now, ohmy goodness, Well thank you for writing.
Should we take one final break?I don't think we're gonna do patrons
this time? No, I don'tsay it. I mean we have somebody
I haven't had the chance to lookthem up. We will get to it.
Yes, we will get to yournames. So let's just take one
(31:40):
last break and get to let hertwo. All right, back, we're
back. We're back, Shelley,I emailed you. Shit, let me
open it up my computer. Sorry, is it gonna make a lot of
noise on your phone? No?But I don't bring my Oh I do
have my reading glasses holders, ladys. No, they're sexy librarian glasses,
(32:06):
just like yours. M hm,okay, alright, sexy librarian glasses annex
and the case for them is kindof gay, rainbow striped. Hold on.
Okay, Now, so Mary andI are sitting on opposite couches.
Now, when I look at Mary, I only see a blur. But
when I look at my phone,I can see shit. So this person
(32:28):
was kind enough to change their namefor us, and well I did that.
Oh but thank you for calling mekind. God, I'm glad we
get still laugh at dumb shit.I know. By the way, here
(32:49):
at the at the river this time, we've been here for a couple of
days. We've been laughing so much. We have we had some good deep
conversations too. We have been crackingthe fuck up, and that's we enjoy
each other. We do. Wetruly do. Okay from Ophelia. The
name that Mary gave I thought Iliked it, so I was about to
say how great this name was.This person changed too, but you did
it, so I'll tell you greatname. Thanks. Hi, Mary and
(33:12):
Shelley. I want to thank youboth for starting the Latter Day Lesbian podcast.
You're welcome. I recently just startedto listen to you both and it's
been so helpful for me that I'mnot alone and what I'm dealing and facing.
Once again, this letter's possibly acouple of years old, so well,
I'm sure they're still feeling that.Mark that one in the email too,
(33:34):
and I'll reply. We'll do updates. Okay, here's a little bit
of my story. I'm needing adviceand I don't have many in my personal
life that I can turn to todiscuss this with. I understand if you
don't have the time to reply back. I mean I kind of didn't,
but I will. I think youmay have replied at one time. You'll
have to check. Well, howam I going to know? Because you
change your name to fucking Ophelia,you'll know okay, plus the rest of
(33:57):
the letter, it will look exactlylike the one but the original name.
See how that works. Mary stilla smart one and you're the emotional one.
It's so true. Listen, thatwill never fucking change. We are
who we the fuck are? Youknow what's funny too? Sorry sidetrack,
Sorry, Ophelia, my know,Ophelia. Hold please. When I went
(34:21):
back and was listening to a fewof the earlier, earlier episodes, you're
so utah, I'm so fucking it'shilarious because we were kind of trying not
to swear. I know, whatthe hell, what the fuck, the
fuck the fuck fuck you? Thatwas making me giggle because it's like,
(34:43):
oh, wait till you hear what'scoming for anyone who's starting. At the
beginning, we were gonna do apodcast episode where we was just trying to
be like approved Mormon swears, butwe never did that. Like fetch or
fetch, I know, I don'treally know all of them. There's lots
fetch, flip, there's so many. Okay, hopefully you will get where
I'm at. As I explained mystory down below, I'm still thinking through
(35:07):
things. I'm scared to come outto my family and friends about it.
I'm twenty four years old. I'mstill active in the eldest church. I've
still only dated one guy, whichdid not go well. We broke up
in a month of dating, whichwas hard on me because I struggled throughout
the whole thing. And after thebreakup, I found myself questioning if I
(35:28):
even liked men. You probably don't, Shelley's like, you know, you
know everyone's a laws man. Yeah, I mean they are, right.
I started to open myself up moreto girls and talking to them. Row.
Yeah, that's how it starts.Don't start talking to girls, they
will recruit you and boobs and boobs. I feel like, right now I
(35:53):
could be bisexual. We know howI feel about this. Yeah, you
think it's the gateway dress. Bisexualis the gateway. Some people are truly
bisexual. I know it's a thing. I know, I know it's not
fake. I'm just like when youare straight in quotations and then you start
wondering if you're not straight. Thesafer, the safer path to say,
(36:15):
I'm stopped by bisexual land right,because then you're only half bad, You're
only a half center. That's fuckedup. But yeah, I said it.
I feel like, right now Icould be bisexual, but I'm not
even sure if that's what it is. It's not. Also, I have
my endowments. Oh fuck, she'sbeen through good temple. Also, I
(36:37):
have my endowments and have been throughthe temple. So I'm so scared to
say anything due to that because Iknow I will get a mouthful on the
whole You made temple covenants and you'rebreaking them. Oh wow, bah blah
blah. I have shown so manypeople the fucking magic handshakes at this point,
no lightning has hit me and everyoneexactly. Everyone's like, that's weird.
I know, m yeah, Ithink you're gonna have to cut your
(37:00):
own throat. I don't want to. I'm not about it. Thankfully they
took that out of the ceremony rightwell, sure, but it doesn't mean
it didn't they didn't say it inthe first place. Sure, Okay.
I haven't come close to wanting toleave the church yet. I just feel
so alone on this, and thepeople I've told are people outside of the
church that I know I can trust. I've always had a good feeling toward
(37:22):
the church, but I never likedthe whole thing on why the church judges
the LGBTQ community like it does.I don't like that either as bullshit.
Yeah, I mean remember in theNew Testament where Jesus was just judging the
funk out of everyone. It's agreat reason to leave. Yes, it
really is nothing else. If nothingelse, leave for that. Yeah.
(37:44):
I can't look at you, Mary, it makes my eyes blurry, cut
of my glasses. I'll look overthe top anymore. Whatever you need to
do, Okay, thanks. Let'ssee I have a brother on a mission
and my sister just got married inthe temple. And as for me,
I'm confused and I'm trying to doeverything the right way as my parents have
told me to do. But Idon't know how much longer by mental health
can handle this. Listen, ifwhat you're being told to do and what
(38:07):
your church is telling you to doblah blah blah is fucking with your mental
health, that is a sign.That is a sign. Choose you.
Yes, choose you, Oh God, please choose you. Yes. I'm
not going to do anything to physicallyhurt myself. Good, thank God.
Yeah, I just need some guidanceon what I should do. Sorry for
(38:29):
the long email. I hope yougot where I'm coming from. Thanks for
taking the time to read this.Signed Ophelia not her name. Advice you
go leave? Okay? Yes?And how do you deal with that with
your family? Okay? First ofall, do you live with your family?
Did she say shouldn't say? She'stwenty four? Not? I that
(38:49):
that means anything. It makes adifference if you're living under the roof of
believers, who are you know,forcing your hand and expecting certain things,
certain behaviors, et cetera. Verytrue, makes a huge difference. If
you're on your own, it opensup some possibilities. Absolutely, And I
don't think you're saying, and I'mnot saying wait until you're out on your
(39:12):
own. If you do live athome, just know that it's a little
more complicated. I know that youhate to see them every day. You're
just gonna get more shit, right, I know. Sometimes it's not possible
to just leave. I get it. Maybe there are small ways in which
you can start to choose, youlike coffee, a feeling. You're going
(39:37):
to just have to gauge how itworks with you, maybe wanting to skip
church a few times here and there, see how that feels absolutely, And
I know there have been people whoare kind of made to go to church
with their family and they have beenable to sort of tune it out for
now, right, get on yourfucking phone, do wordle like. I'm
(40:00):
just I don't know what's going towork for you, whatever crossword puzzles.
I don't know what's going to workfor you. I don't have the answers
for everyone at all. But I'mjust saying some people who have to go
because either they live at home orthey're just worried about they're not yet ready
to, you know, flick thatdomino over. They've been okay, going
(40:22):
along in the motions and just checkingout of it mentally. Again, not
advice, I'm just saying that's whatsome people have been able to do well.
And honestly, putting yourself first,putting the needs of others second,
and choosing yourself is a lifelong journey. Sometimes Absolutely, you'll sure to figure
this out in like a month orsomething. And you sure didn't learn how
(40:43):
to do that in the Mormon Church. So probably when you start putting yourself
you will be labeled as selfish.Sure that is the Mormon way. That's
a lot of the ways. Actually, yeah, I mean also boundaries when
you set a boundary with someone thatcan be laid to selfish when when the
other person doesn't understand the boundary,doesn't like the boundary, doesn't like change,
(41:05):
You're mean, you're selfish, right, doesn't like change. So these
are things that are really challenging,really hard to do. But you're already
recognizing this current situation is not workingfor you, right o, Philia,
you are on your way? Yeah, you you have actually taken a huge
step on your path. Yes,because of acknowledging it and knowing that where
(41:30):
you want to get. That's huge. So give yourself some credit. I
know that you're you know, insideyou feel lost and depressed. I so
understand that. But you have alreadytaken a huge ass step, right yeah,
congratulations' And that's really brave for writingin. You didn't specifically say to
change your name well either letter,but I just decided to do it.
(41:51):
They're young and still in the church, and so I decided to change names.
Sure, yeah, you know,shout out to everyone out there,
But I'm thinking of the who havewritten in. You all are so brave,
no matter what point in your life. You've written in where you are
in your story. The fact thatyou are somewhere in your story thinking that
(42:13):
you need to get away from thiscult is huge and brave and scary.
I am just in awe our listeners, Honestly, I know y'all fucking badasses.
Yes, yes, you are so, Ophelia. It's gonna get easier,
yes, Mike, a little harder, but over time it will get
(42:35):
easier. Putting yourself first can feelscary and selfish, but with practice,
it does get easier. Right.And when I say it's harder, you're
gonna get some some backlash from people, for sure, yeah, or shit
shitty backlash, backlashy shit shit lash. You'll be getting some shitlash. Okay,
Okay, sorry, go, butyou know what, You're worth it
(42:59):
and you should come first. It'syour life. Yeah, this is your
story. Be the protagonist, Bethe hero of your own story. This
is all about you. Yes,And people are just gonna have to deal
they are, and people will getused to it. They will, they
won't, And who the fuck cares? Yeah? Sometimes you have to figure
out who truly loves you, whoyour true friends are, and they may
(43:21):
not be blood related, you know. Yeah, it ends okay, Yeah,
it is okay, it is okay. You've got us, Ophelia say
and t you both have us.I guess that's gonna wrap up this episode.
We've been sort of putting off thebreakup episode as we're working through shit,
so we don't actually have a lotplanned to talk about. So yeah,
(43:44):
that's it. I feel How doyou feel, Mary, now that
we've done this, I feel okay, and I'm glad we didn't go into
a lot of detail. Yeah,it's our personal shit, yeah for sure,
but it does feel good to sharewith our listeners who've been very invested
in us, in the podcast andwhatever. It feels good to just lay
it down there and be good withit. And I want to thank everybody
(44:07):
in advance for their support as wego through this. Yep, this isn't
a sides thing like we mentioned before. No, please just support us both
and this decision. This is absolutelya no fault divorce, right. I
know, like movie stars say thatshit and it's not true, but and
then it comes out later and theyhad seventeen girlfriends on the side, and
(44:29):
then you're Johnny Depp and you're incourt. Well fuck, that was a
good one. Yes, no faultdivorce seriously, and we love each other
and we're going to keep loving eachother and keep doing the things that we
love to do together. And that'snot going to change. No, absolutely
not. And I want to thankboth Tea and Ophelia for writing in.
Thank you for your bravery, thankyou for sharing your stories. I also
(44:52):
want to thank Dan from Extension Audio. You know, I don't think Dan
has heard us thank him in awhile. Thanks for leaving it in Dan.
Ye. And he also didn't realizewe had broken up, so this
he will find that out listening tothis podcast. Yeah, when we send
this for the first edit, he'sgonna be like, oh fuck, yeah,
it's gonna be news to Dan.It's not talent. Let's just send
(45:13):
that good over, ok. Yeah? Wow, Dan, If you want
to record your response at the endof this episode and put it in there
and fucking do it, that's upto you, buddy, do you Dan,
We're all doing ourselvesselves. That's badwell these days? True? Oh
(45:35):
God you Mary, I love you. We will be talking to y'all soon.
Absolutely, we're not quitting. Canyou still say this, Dear Clear
of Cults, because that's still applicable. Well you just did. No,
I didn't because there's no joke,no joke at all. You later byeye
Uh, how do we start this? In this episode, we have an
announcement. We do, Shelley andI have news. Don't panic, it's
okay, it's okay. And thenafter we share our news, we are
going to read a couple of listenerletters today. I love the listener letters.
(00:21):
M Yeah, I think it's beena little while. Yeah, these
are both from current Mormons, notfor long. Oh sorry, members of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. Don't use that wind for
Satan. Nope. All right,let's take a break and then get into
it when get back. All right, Hey, everybody, welcome to Latter
(00:42):
Day Lesbian, the podcast about thenext Mormon gay girl just trying to figure
out a life. My name isMary, my name is Shelley, and
I'm a little bit under the weather. So if i sound a little you
know, deeper voice, sexy,or than normal, that's why. Also,
we are not our studio today.We're down at one of the airbnbs
(01:03):
and the sound is not great,right, so quit your bitch in.
We're doing our best. Dan hatesthese travel Mike. Sorry Dan, Dan,
Well, there's a weird EQ thing. I don't know what you just
said. Righty eq element op isgonna be way off. Yeah, it's
gonna be kind of funky, Okay. We have put this off as long
(01:25):
as possible, Yes, because oflots of reasons. Trying to figure out
what the future holds, right isone of them. Trying to get over
the pain is another. Everyone's veryalarmed right now. Mary and I have
broken up. It's not a joke, it's not April Fools. It's true.
(01:47):
We broke up. I don't know, two months ago now, I
want to say, yeah, overthe summer. Over the summer and we
just kind of had to take abreak from the podcasting just to work through
everything. We don't want to getinto details about the breakup. It's personal,
of course, but I just wanteveryone to know that A there was
no infidelity, and for some reasonfor me, like in the Mormon world,
(02:12):
when someone breaks up, divorces orwhatever, my first thought was always
somebody cheated or somebody left the church, and good thing they divorced. I
know it's fucked up. Well,I left the church a long time.
I guess you did, so didI did? I did not that church
though, different church. Right.In case you're listening for the first time
(02:34):
any people are bottom and go backback to the beginning one. I know,
Jesus, so in the last coupleof months, it's been hard on
both of us. We both knowand understand that we needed to take that
relationship break not like break up.Not we're on a break like breakup,
(02:59):
and we had to take time apartand figure it all out. Sure,
yeah, I mean, you don'tjust like break up and everything's great.
Me being the more And this isnot a diss on you, Me being
the more feeling one, I guessbecause I'm cold and dead and side.
No. No, because I'm theone that gets devastated by everything. That's
just who I am. You areall up in your fields, I am.
(03:21):
I am so in all honesty,it was very hard for me.
My mom got sick and passed awayall in the same week. I would
say, very bad timing, horribletiming. Yeah, but what do you
do. It's like, you breakup and then my mom dies, and
then do we say, never mind, let's get back together while you work
through your mom grief and then we'llbreak up Like that's it's I mean,
(03:43):
our cat was out of the bagfor us, and then your mom got
second passed and it was just badtime. It was bad. It was
bad. So the one two punchfor me losing Mary as my girlfriend and
losing my mom as my mom definitelyput me in a spiral of massive depression,
massive anxiety that I haven't felt ina long time there, And I'm
(04:09):
just gonna throw those out there.I guess we need to trigger warning.
Suicide ideation, I guess is ourtrigger warning there. I definitely was in
a very bad, unsafe place there, And you know, I'm just laying
this out there for you people becausethat's what we do. Sure, the
breakup basically happened in Mary's apartment,and I don't think I would have done
(04:35):
anything, because I didn't. Butwhen I get to that point, it's
like my brain starts the panic anddoesn't think logically and was like, you
know, Shelley, Mary lives onthe sixth floor. There's a balcony.
It wouldn't be that hard to justgo take a leap and make make it
(04:57):
stop hurting. I didn't know you. I mean, that's not considered an
active plan. No, it was. I was having the impulses, which,
by the way, talking to adoctor after that, you checked yourself
into an AR. Yeah. Sowhen I checked into the AR, and
that was probably the next day,she told me most people don't make plans.
(05:18):
Most people it's impulsive and they can'thandle it and they do something that
they wouldn't necessarily have done if theycould have sat and talked it through or
whatever. So whether or not Iwould have done that, I don't know,
who knows, But I recognize thatthose thoughts were coming in and I
(05:38):
knew it wasn't good, and soI spent probably the next day. Gosh,
for sure, the next day washorrible, but it was non stop
grief and crying and wailing and justwanting to get away from all these feelings.
And by the way, Mary,you were very sweet and very kind
(05:59):
and try to help me. Ididn't leave your side for like three days.
No, you didn't, And youalso had a lot of support from
a lot of friends. I did. I figured I'd get a little hearing
on this, but yeah, I'mjust kind of going back there in my
mind and it's not happy, Yeah, I know. So yeah, the
(06:26):
next day when I was just ina horrible place, you know, wailing
out loud, just not being ableto handle anything, and kind of rocking
back and forth and just major anxiety. The neighbors. I can't believe they
didn't call the cops because it wasn'tlike quiet wailing. It was like grief
morning. Anyway, my daughter Genevievewas home, thank god. Well actually
(06:48):
she was at work a lot ofthe day, but she knew what had
happened, and she knew I wasin a real shitty place. And she
would text me like every hour,Mom, how are you doing? Are
you okay? Yeah? My kidsthey're just oh, they're amazing humans.
And one time I just text herand I said, Genevieve, I'm not
I'm not good. I'm I'm notgood. I'm scared. And she came
(07:11):
home right away. And I wasalso talking to Kimberly and Jess are therapist
friends, and they were very helpfulwith me understanding like the danger of what
was going on. Right, andthey're making all these calls trying to find
a facilitate for you as Yeah,they knew it was bad. And I
remember Kimberly asked, are you safe? And I said I don't think so,
(07:35):
and she said you need to goto the hospital, and I agreed,
I'm like, yes, for sure. Genevieve came home when she took
me to the hospital and Mary metme there. They wouldn't even let me
go back there. Those assholes Iknow well because Genevieve was back there with
them one visitor of time. Andby the way, there actually wasn't room
(07:57):
for you in there because I onlymade it to a like a gurney,
not that they had to wheel mesomewhere because I couldn't walk, but they
had me laid down on a gurneyin the hall while they talked to me
and asked me questions. And itseems an appropriate place for all that.
Yeah, just in some hallway,I know, like, oh, I
feel so cared for. But thegreat thing, this is my private ship
(08:22):
that I need to talk about.I know they're asking me out loud if
I'm making plans to kill myself,and you know where everyone's listening up together
around we're about to start a podcast. So what was slightly entertaining? But
I guess I shouldn't have been entertainedbecause it's sad. But in the room
like connecting to the hall where Iwas, there was a person there because
(08:48):
I eaves dropped very well. Thedoctors assumed he had taken way too many
meds, like on purpose, buthe was irritable. He was yelling,
he was trying to, you know, throw things around, and so they
had I'm not exaggerating, at leastten security officers, some in the room,
some standing in the hall. SoI felt very safe. I don't
(09:11):
know, but it was kind ofnice. I don't know. It sounds
horrible to say it was nice tohave the distraction of someone else who was
suffering, but whatever, it is, what it is. Mary met me
back in the waiting room because thedoctors wanted to admit me into that hospital.
There for like seventy two hour watch, and I just didn't want to
be there. I just felt Ididn't want to be without my people,
(09:33):
you know, I didn't want tobe confined to some place. Anyway,
Mary met me, she brought mehome. Genevieve went back home in my
car, and no, you stayedwith me for a while. Yeah,
you did, and it was Iwanted to make sure you're okay. I
know, I love you. Ilove you too so much. That hasn't
(09:54):
changed, you know, never willnever. Sometimes you just have to make
the really hard decisions in life.Yes, and Marriott was the right decision.
I know. For the first fewweeks I was just like a fucking
train wreck. And I am gladthat you stood strong and the resolve that
this needs to be ended. Asfar as the girlfriend relationship, but we're
(10:18):
still podcasting partners and business partners.For sure. We're like best friends.
I mean we're I don't have anyless love for you. I really don't
say thank you. So after thehospital experience, I was trying to check
myself into like a mental therapy rehab, like an inpatient day thirty right,
(10:41):
what do they call it? Isit called inpatient? Like where you living
here? I think so, becausein my mind I knew I needed to
work on myself. I knew Ineeded to get away from everything. I
just needed separation. I didn't knowwhat to do. I just wanted to
run, and so to me,this was my my I'm going to run
away and get better and then comeback to my life. I'm gonna say,
(11:05):
fortunately, at this point, myinsurance wouldn't pay for it. Yeah,
your insurance sucks. Sorry, Kaiser. You know it's funny about that
too, looking back, is thatI finally got a call back from Kaiser
to talk about what I was wanting, and the lady that was talking to
me, she had looked up therehab facility on the internet because it was,
(11:28):
you know, about an hour awayfrom where I lived, the kids
could visit blah blah blah. Andshe was like, yeah, we don't
pay for that. That looks likea really nice place. Like you bitch,
I think I'm trying to go onvacation, Like what the fuck?
That was kind of funny, butand I'm gonna let you talk in a
minute, Mary. Sorry's getting usall out that some thing's never change,
(11:50):
even broken up. You know,I'm still me, You're still you.
Yep, I'm still a sidekick ona podcast over here. No, just
a co hot on a podcast whoseco host talks a lot Israel Jetty totally
blah blah blah. Kiser sucks.But the reason that I was looking back
glad is because it was right aroundthat time when when I was trying to
(12:16):
get in and I didn't know thatthey weren't going to let me in because
it's too nice or whatever the fuckwas when I found out that my mom
had a couple of weeks left,maybe it and in my mind. I
was on the waitlist to get intoone of these facilities. I hadn't found
out yet the Kaiser was a pieceof shit, and I had to make
the decision do I go out andsee my mom or if the a bed
(12:39):
opens up for me, because theseplaces are very hard to get into.
If a bed opens up for me, is it the better choice to just
go to the facility and start myrecovery right? And I went back and
forth on a little bit. Idid, and actually I didn't even hear
back from Kaiser until after I hadmade the decision I need to go see
my mom. I was told thatmy mom had a couple of weeks left,
(13:03):
and I flew out and I gotthere in the morning. It's like
the very next morning that I foundout, and I was able to spend
time with her and we talked abouta lot of this. I don't you
know. At this point, Kimberlyand I have been podcasting about my experience
in Utah with my family and thefuneral, and at this point, I
don't know if that episode will havecome out by now. Probably we're going
(13:24):
to release this one first, okay, and you have to release part two
of that and record rather part twoof that. Yeah, so the detailed
story is coming. Don't worry.I'm I'm not brushing over good stuff,
but I'm just saying that I amso glad that I went out there to
see my mom. She died thevery next morning after I got there,
and all the experiences they had throughthat entire time with my two brothers that
(13:48):
I'm close with, and helping mydad understand what was going on he has
severe dementia now, and being ableto hold my mom's hand, like God,
if I would have missed that,yeah, and I wouldn't have known
how much I would have missed,But after gone through it, I'm like
I would that those are moments inmy life that are etched in my brain,
(14:09):
etched in my heart, and Iwould literally be less of a person
had I not had that experience.Well, and you can go into more
details about that on the podcast episodescenter are going to be coming up,
But the rest of us here we'rereally worried about you making that choice to
go to Utah because you didn't seemokay, right right. I wasn't,
(14:33):
but it was like, fuck,I gotta go see my mom. I
bought a one way ticket, andI had decided to like, if I
got the phone called that there's abed ready, I would have come back.
And because I just wanted to gosee her one more time, right,
it was so good for me tobe there and have a distraction from
our breakup. I mean, Iwas still horribly sad and grieving and I
(14:54):
cried every day. But being therewith my mom and her laugh hours and
spending time with my two brothers thatI like and we could all grieve together
and make jokes and make each otherlaugh. I needed that. That was
that was so good for me todo, and I'm so glad that I
did that, you know, cameback the Funeral's funeral was like three weeks
(15:15):
later, and they had to keepmy mom on ice before before we could
get everybody out there, all thefamily out there for the funeral. But
that's the funeral part that's in theMe and Kimberly podcast, you know.
But coming back again so hard.We kind of distanced ourselves from each other.
It was needed. We still talkevery day and at this point,
(15:37):
obviously because we're podcasting together again,we're in a really good place, I
know, and I'm amazed I'm amazedis because I'm amazing. Well, you
had mentioned a long time ago thatif we ever did break up, you
couldn't have me in your life anymore. I was terrifying for me. Yeah,
I felt that way then, andI didn't want to lose you.
(16:00):
I know. Yeah, I getit. I get it saying those things
back then, I meant them,sure, you know. But now that
here we are, God, Ican't imagine being without you in my life.
Say yeah, so now that we'veworked through, Another thing about us
and about Mary that I love isthat we were able to have a lot
(16:22):
of good conversations about the relationship andwhat had happened and what was good and
what didn't work. And I thinkthat maybe, well, most of the
people I know after breakups, they'rejust pissed and they don't really talk.
It's just like, well, fuckyou, fuck you, you did this,
you did that. And Mary andI have been able to just sit
(16:44):
and I've been able to cry becausethat's what I do, and just talk
it out. We're also hella old. I don't have the energy to be
angry well, and I like totalk with Age potentially comes wisdom, not
always, but sometimes luckily for us. I think we did a lot of
learning about ourselves. Yeah, Iknow you did. I know I did
(17:07):
too. But from our talking Iwent into therapy. Oh you had exactly
Yeah, And don't you have anappointment coming up? I do. I
went to like three back to backdays of therapy right after the breakup,
and then I went to Utah.And now I'm set up with a therapist
that I've gone to before that Ireally love. Good. Not that I
didn't like the one before, butI don't. I don't know. Whatever
(17:27):
you find your therapists is our point, right, And therapy is good.
Yes, therapy is good. Butagain, being able to sit down with
Mary and still have that same lovework for the grief of knowing it's different
now, but being able to talkabout and to apologize to each other.
(17:51):
Yeah, to be able to bringsomething up Mary, this hurt me,
blah blah blah. You think aboutit, You're like, wow, I
didn't mean that to hurt you insuch a way. I'm sorry. And
having all those back and forth apologiesand understandings, it's just kind of beautiful,
honestly, I know. I lovethat we were able to just talk
through everything. And process it.Multiple conversations as many as it took,
(18:15):
and all the time texts sometimes youwere here for it as many as many
conversations as it took to feel betterright and get everything said. And it's
not easy. Oh god, thiswere hard conversations. Wow, like being
you know, we've always been honestwith each other, but there were some
things where I don't know if wewant to say the honesty was less or
(18:38):
guarded because we didn't want to hurtthe other kind of I mean we kind
of say what was going on,but not necessarily in a way that we
understood how dire, yes, howdire, how much whatever was going on
was hurting, just kind of hey, this is what's up. And but
(18:59):
we really went there. We reallywent there, and I think that helped
both of us understand why the fallingapart of the relationship. I don't know.
Again, I'm like, I don'twant to go into the wise.
We're just it just is and nowit's great truly. Like Mary said,
we're down at the river right now. This is our first podcast we've done
since the breakup. I wasn't readyto podcast, and I actually had someone
(19:22):
would so if I don't want todo the podcast because of the hurt and
how weird it would be and howI would probably be so sad. But
I went back and listened to acouple of the earlier podcasts, and in
those there were some letters that wehad read from people who wrote in and
just fucking hit me like a tonof bricks, like people are hurting,
(19:47):
people need to hear us and tohelp. And I'm like, I don't
want to stop this. Y Ienjoy I love the podcast. Be it.
It does good for the world.And so Michael, I think also
started to interrupt you. I'm talkingto your ability to be vulnerable and put
(20:08):
it all out there is inspirational toa lot of people who maybe haven't had
that opportunity. You know, absolutelyno, I think it gives people courage
to be authentic with who they are, you know, right, I know
you and I had a discussion abouthow do we tell the listeners that we
(20:29):
broke up, and in my extremegrief, I was just like, just
stop the podcast. Done, wedisappear. You know, obviously we've worked
through that. I was I wasnot great. No, you weren't in
a good place. I was not. But we we talked about like,
you know what, honestly most relationshipsend. Are we letting people down right
now with that cold trip. Statisticallyspeaking, divorces over fifty percent, and
(20:53):
so to pretend like this relationship wasperfect and to just drop it at the
you know, when we break up, I think that does a disservice to
our listeners because we want to talkabout how things are now. We want
to talk about how we worked throughit. We want to talk about those
those things because I think it matters. Also, I have reframed what this
(21:17):
breakup is. You can look atbreakups as a failure, and I do
not at all look at the relationshipas a failure. The fact that we
broke up showing that that was afailure. No, nothing about this,
meeting you, loving you, startingthe podcast, everything that led us to
(21:38):
this point. None of it waswrong. None of it was a failure.
I don't want to do over forany of it. I don't.
I don't regret a single moment ofit. Right, it took me a
little longer to get there, Iunderstand, because you know me, I'm
a feeler. I'm there now,I really honestly am. I think in
(22:00):
our six years almost six years whatever, we have had amazing times. We've
helped each other through some very hardthings. We have this podcast that I
know has been life changing for somany people, and I've loved doing with
you. So yeah, that's that'swhere we are. Did you want to
add anything else to that? No, I think I said it, you
(22:22):
did. I said it a lotmore. The podcast is continuing. We
want to make sure you all realizethat we're not done. No, we
just took a big gass break,and honestly, I know we've been way
less than weekly for a while,I'll say, but I think a lot
of it was just the build upof the stress and pressure in the relationship
(22:44):
and just you know, being unhappy, yeah, and not knowing what to
do about it. I still don'tthink we're going to be able to get
back to weekly only because you're sobusy, right with kids in like twenty
five jobs. I think up toa lot getting us in the same place
at the same time. It's challenging, it is, it is, but
(23:04):
we're not stopping. No, no, no, And now that I'm to
a place where I'm like, fuck, yeah, we're gonna keep doing the
podcast, am I am most definitelymore motivated to get together and do this
thing again. It's not we weekly, it might be monthly. I don't
know. We might do a bunchin two weeks and then we might not
do anything for a while. Itdoesn't matter. We're going to do things
(23:25):
on our own time and things thatdon't stress us out, because the last
thing we need is more stress.But because we really want to give a
good product out to you all,absolutely and folks who enjoyed the last time
we were on god Awful Movies talkingabout Charlie God, that was so god
awful. We released some of thosevideos on Patreon. We haven't yet.
(23:49):
Well, maybe by the time thiscomes up, those videos will be up.
I've been a little bit busy,but we're gonna be on god Awful
Movies again. Look, yeah,what's the name of the movie. Maybe
these people want to watch it andit's not a Mormid movie. But I
can I can rip apart any fuckingreligions. I don't. I don't know
anything about this movie. We stillhave to watch it. It's called Unwanted
(24:10):
Presence presents not like gifts right likethings around you think you can look it
up on YouTube. Yeah, it'sa YouTube one. I don't think it
made it to like IMAX didn't.I could check check check on IMDb see
if it was in the IX Charlie'stheron and that. Now I'm just doubtful.
Yeah, but that's supposed to comeout the tenth of October. That's
(24:32):
when they're going to drop the episode, the god awful podcast episode with us,
So we'll still be showing up hereand there if if you're not getting
your fill of LDL, I'm hearingabout some people whore going back to the
beginning and were listening to Oh,I'm so sorry, will start over,
and that's actually awesome. Do it? You might have missed some good shit.
You might have been laughing so hardat one joke that you missed the
(24:55):
one I dropped right after Oh,because they were laughing at my joke.
Oh wow, crickets, I know, Dan, Please don't serve crickets on
that one. That was fucking awesome. That needs a good cricket. That
is funny. Well, I'm lookingat the clock and thinking we should probably
get to the letters. We takea break first. Yeah, we're gonna
(25:15):
take a break. Is there anythingelse you wanted to say before we take
our break. I just want toreiterate again that Mary and I are happy.
We've moved through the grief stage.I know that healing isn't linear.
You know, I might cry oncea while. Mary might hit a wall
where she's like, fuck, thatwill be the extent of my emotions.
Yeah, fuck, then back towork. But we are like, well,
(25:41):
shit, shit, but we loveeach other. We spend time together,
like we're here at the river rightnow, together in the same house,
and it's good. We've really enjoybeing around each other. We do,
so I think we're getting the bestof everything right now. You know,
we can work on our own shit, we can be in each other's
(26:02):
lives. We can still podcast,you know, we can go out to
eat whatever. But we're also freeof the stress in all the things that
we're happening in the relationships. I'mhappy. Yeah, So nobody do a
favor. Nobody take team Shelley teamMary sides on this one. We're in
it together, although I know itwould be team Shelley. I'm fucking around.
(26:27):
Yes, we are the team.Yeah, we are still a team.
It's still not about the toaster ebbins, but we are still a fucking
team one day, I'll night whenyou over on that score. Hmmmm.
Well all right, let's go aheadand take our break, and when we
come back, we have a listenerletter. Let's do it. Be right
back and we're back here we are, okay, So I'm going to read
(26:52):
one, and then Shelley, we'llread one. I've changed both their names
just in case this person I changedtheir name to tea like the tea drink
could be ok or just the letterT green tea possibly Okay, green tea,
go try T, says dear latterday Lesbian. Hey, that's us,
(27:12):
always will be. I wanted tothank you so much for the podcast
that both of you do. HearingShelley's story and listening to Mary's thoughts have
helped me so much in my life. I've recently discovered the podcast. I
started binging it from the first episode, Way to Go all the way to
the most recent one. By theway, this letter, I know it's
(27:34):
I think it's I think it's beena while. Oh it's a couple of
years. So she thought she wasdone, but guess what, two more
years there's more keep going. Iwanted to thank you for helping me get
through my life and for just everythingyou two do. See I know,
see, Okay, I hope Idon't offend you with this, but I
(27:56):
am a Mormons. The fuck iswrong. Now we're going to actually reply
to that letter. We're going toneed an update for sure. Yet I
agree with every single thing you've said. I completely agree with your thoughts and
with everything you said about tithing andprophets and meetings, etc. I've always
questioned my sexuality, and hearing thispodcast, hearing Shelley share her story,
(28:22):
it has helped me come to termswith who I am and who I like.
Thank you. And while I wouldlove to be who I am,
love who I love and get out, I know my parents, whoever pretty
stronghold over my life, will notaccept me. Does t say how old
she is? They I don't knowwhat the wait for it, I'm not
sure sorry, and will not allowme to be who I want to be,
(28:48):
and they will hate me and everyoneI know will hate me, and
I'm scared to take a stand.Oh God, been there. I'm so
sorry. That is such a hardplace to be in In it, Yeah,
it feels like I'm trapped with fewdecisions, especially because if I want
to go to college. Okay,so she's young. I have to go
(29:10):
to a church school otherwise they won'tpay or let me go. God,
I'm thinking, B where you Idaho? Or B y u fucking provo?
I hate that. Yeah, yougo over someone's head, right, you
go to church school, or you'repaying on your own right to the line.
Yep, you know. I thinkJesus was really into extortion, pretty
(29:30):
sure? Yeah, have you readthe New Testament? The extortion is Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints. It'sapplicable to that version. Sure, I
hate that, but hearing the podcasthas inspired me and always makes my day.
(29:52):
Writer. I love that I've donestuff that isn't contrary to what people
teach, and I've seen how peoplein the church isolate those people, I
guess, the ones who are contrary. Yeah, don't fucking pierce your nose.
Saw how that went down for me, shouldn't do it. So I've
always been afraid and terrified, notjust afraid, but terrified, Shelley,
(30:12):
but hearing you tell your story hasmade me feel less alone. So thank
you, You're welcome. Thank youso much Mary and Shelley for everything you've
done. And I hope you guyscontinue to do the podcast. Oh we
are. Don't you worry about that, because it is truly amazing. I
love your podcast and keep being you. Sincerely, te Oh Tea, thank
(30:34):
you. I know what a lovelyletter. I'm so sorry you feel stuck.
You feel trapped. You feel likeyou have to do exactly everything that
your parents are telling you to do, and other maybe friends and family members.
I hate that for you. Thatsucks. You know, it's hard
enough to feel that when you arean adult, but to feel that when
you are still living under your parentsroof and they are the money holders,
(30:57):
and they are they hold, theyhold all of the decision like it just
fucking sucks. It sucks, andI'm so sorry. Yeah, same,
I put mark that email when I'mgoing to reply finally and get an update.
Okay, how about that? Thatsounds good to Green Tea. I
(31:18):
believe it's she her pronounced be goodto see what the update is on her
life? Yes, now, ohmy goodness, Well thank you for writing.
Should we take one final break?I don't think we're gonna do patrons
this time? No, I don'tsay it. I mean we have somebody
I haven't had the chance to lookthem up. We will get to it.
Yes, we will get to yournames. So let's just take one
(31:40):
last break and get to let hertwo. All right, back, we're
back. We're back, Shelley,I emailed you. Shit, let me
open it up my computer. Sorry, is it gonna make a lot of
noise on your phone? No?But I don't bring my Oh I do
have my reading glasses holders, ladys. No, they're sexy librarian glasses,
(32:06):
just like yours. M hm,okay, alright, sexy librarian glasses annex
and the case for them is kindof gay, rainbow striped. Hold on.
Okay, Now, so Mary andI are sitting on opposite couches.
Now, when I look at Mary, I only see a blur. But
when I look at my phone,I can see shit. So this person
(32:28):
was kind enough to change their namefor us, and well I did that.
Oh but thank you for calling mekind. God, I'm glad we
get still laugh at dumb shit.I know. By the way, here
(32:49):
at the at the river this time, we've been here for a couple of
days. We've been laughing so much. We have we had some good deep
conversations too. We have been crackingthe fuck up, and that's we enjoy
each other. We do. Wetruly do. Okay from Ophelia. The
name that Mary gave I thought Iliked it, so I was about to
say how great this name was.This person changed too, but you did
it, so I'll tell you greatname. Thanks. Hi, Mary and
(33:12):
Shelley. I want to thank youboth for starting the Latter Day Lesbian podcast.
You're welcome. I recently just startedto listen to you both and it's
been so helpful for me that I'mnot alone and what I'm dealing and facing.
Once again, this letter's possibly acouple of years old, so well,
I'm sure they're still feeling that.Mark that one in the email too,
(33:34):
and I'll reply. We'll do updates. Okay, here's a little bit
of my story. I'm needing adviceand I don't have many in my personal
life that I can turn to todiscuss this with. I understand if you
don't have the time to reply back. I mean I kind of didn't,
but I will. I think youmay have replied at one time. You'll
have to check. Well, howam I going to know? Because you
change your name to fucking Ophelia,you'll know okay, plus the rest of
(33:57):
the letter, it will look exactlylike the one but the original name.
See how that works. Mary stilla smart one and you're the emotional one.
It's so true. Listen, thatwill never fucking change. We are
who we the fuck are? Youknow what's funny too? Sorry sidetrack,
Sorry, Ophelia, my know,Ophelia. Hold please. When I went
(34:21):
back and was listening to a fewof the earlier, earlier episodes, you're
so utah, I'm so fucking it'shilarious because we were kind of trying not
to swear. I know, whatthe hell, what the fuck, the
fuck the fuck fuck you? Thatwas making me giggle because it's like,
(34:43):
oh, wait till you hear what'scoming for anyone who's starting. At the
beginning, we were gonna do apodcast episode where we was just trying to
be like approved Mormon swears, butwe never did that. Like fetch or
fetch, I know, I don'treally know all of them. There's lots
fetch, flip, there's so many. Okay, hopefully you will get where
I'm at. As I explained mystory down below, I'm still thinking through
(35:07):
things. I'm scared to come outto my family and friends about it.
I'm twenty four years old. I'mstill active in the eldest church. I've
still only dated one guy, whichdid not go well. We broke up
in a month of dating, whichwas hard on me because I struggled throughout
the whole thing. And after thebreakup, I found myself questioning if I
(35:28):
even liked men. You probably don't, Shelley's like, you know, you
know everyone's a laws man. Yeah, I mean they are, right.
I started to open myself up moreto girls and talking to them. Row.
Yeah, that's how it starts.Don't start talking to girls, they
will recruit you and boobs and boobs. I feel like, right now I
(35:53):
could be bisexual. We know howI feel about this. Yeah, you
think it's the gateway dress. Bisexualis the gateway. Some people are truly
bisexual. I know it's a thing. I know, I know it's not
fake. I'm just like when youare straight in quotations and then you start
wondering if you're not straight. Thesafer, the safer path to say,
(36:15):
I'm stopped by bisexual land right,because then you're only half bad, You're
only a half center. That's fuckedup. But yeah, I said it.
I feel like, right now Icould be bisexual, but I'm not
even sure if that's what it is. It's not. Also, I have
my endowments. Oh fuck, she'sbeen through good temple. Also, I
(36:37):
have my endowments and have been throughthe temple. So I'm so scared to
say anything due to that because Iknow I will get a mouthful on the
whole You made temple covenants and you'rebreaking them. Oh wow, bah blah
blah. I have shown so manypeople the fucking magic handshakes at this point,
no lightning has hit me and everyoneexactly. Everyone's like, that's weird.
I know, m yeah, Ithink you're gonna have to cut your
(37:00):
own throat. I don't want to. I'm not about it. Thankfully they
took that out of the ceremony rightwell, sure, but it doesn't mean
it didn't they didn't say it inthe first place. Sure, Okay.
I haven't come close to wanting toleave the church yet. I just feel
so alone on this, and thepeople I've told are people outside of the
church that I know I can trust. I've always had a good feeling toward
(37:22):
the church, but I never likedthe whole thing on why the church judges
the LGBTQ community like it does.I don't like that either as bullshit.
Yeah, I mean remember in theNew Testament where Jesus was just judging the
funk out of everyone. It's agreat reason to leave. Yes, it
really is nothing else. If nothingelse, leave for that. Yeah.
(37:44):
I can't look at you, Mary, it makes my eyes blurry, cut
of my glasses. I'll look overthe top anymore. Whatever you need to
do, Okay, thanks. Let'ssee I have a brother on a mission
and my sister just got married inthe temple. And as for me,
I'm confused and I'm trying to doeverything the right way as my parents have
told me to do. But Idon't know how much longer by mental health
can handle this. Listen, ifwhat you're being told to do and what
(38:07):
your church is telling you to doblah blah blah is fucking with your mental
health, that is a sign.That is a sign. Choose you.
Yes, choose you, Oh God, please choose you. Yes. I'm
not going to do anything to physicallyhurt myself. Good, thank God.
Yeah, I just need some guidanceon what I should do. Sorry for
(38:29):
the long email. I hope yougot where I'm coming from. Thanks for
taking the time to read this.Signed Ophelia not her name. Advice you
go leave? Okay? Yes?And how do you deal with that with
your family? Okay? First ofall, do you live with your family?
Did she say shouldn't say? She'stwenty four? Not? I that
(38:49):
that means anything. It makes adifference if you're living under the roof of
believers, who are you know,forcing your hand and expecting certain things,
certain behaviors, et cetera. Verytrue, makes a huge difference. If
you're on your own, it opensup some possibilities. Absolutely, And I
don't think you're saying, and I'mnot saying wait until you're out on your
(39:12):
own. If you do live athome, just know that it's a little
more complicated. I know that youhate to see them every day. You're
just gonna get more shit, right, I know. Sometimes it's not possible
to just leave. I get it. Maybe there are small ways in which
you can start to choose, youlike coffee, a feeling. You're going
(39:37):
to just have to gauge how itworks with you, maybe wanting to skip
church a few times here and there, see how that feels absolutely, And
I know there have been people whoare kind of made to go to church
with their family and they have beenable to sort of tune it out for
now, right, get on yourfucking phone, do wordle like. I'm
(40:00):
just I don't know what's going towork for you, whatever crossword puzzles.
I don't know what's going to workfor you. I don't have the answers
for everyone at all. But I'mjust saying some people who have to go
because either they live at home orthey're just worried about they're not yet ready
to, you know, flick thatdomino over. They've been okay, going
(40:22):
along in the motions and just checkingout of it mentally. Again, not
advice, I'm just saying that's whatsome people have been able to do well.
And honestly, putting yourself first,putting the needs of others second,
and choosing yourself is a lifelong journey. Sometimes Absolutely, you'll sure to figure
this out in like a month orsomething. And you sure didn't learn how
(40:43):
to do that in the Mormon Church. So probably when you start putting yourself
you will be labeled as selfish.Sure that is the Mormon way. That's
a lot of the ways. Actually, yeah, I mean also boundaries when
you set a boundary with someone thatcan be laid to selfish when when the
other person doesn't understand the boundary,doesn't like the boundary, doesn't like change,
(41:05):
You're mean, you're selfish, right, doesn't like change. So these
are things that are really challenging,really hard to do. But you're already
recognizing this current situation is not workingfor you, right o, Philia,
you are on your way? Yeah, you you have actually taken a huge
step on your path. Yes,because of acknowledging it and knowing that where
(41:30):
you want to get. That's huge. So give yourself some credit. I
know that you're you know, insideyou feel lost and depressed. I so
understand that. But you have alreadytaken a huge ass step, right yeah,
congratulations' And that's really brave for writingin. You didn't specifically say to
change your name well either letter,but I just decided to do it.
(41:51):
They're young and still in the church, and so I decided to change names.
Sure, yeah, you know,shout out to everyone out there,
But I'm thinking of the who havewritten in. You all are so brave,
no matter what point in your life. You've written in where you are
in your story. The fact thatyou are somewhere in your story thinking that
(42:13):
you need to get away from thiscult is huge and brave and scary.
I am just in awe our listeners, Honestly, I know y'all fucking badasses.
Yes, yes, you are so, Ophelia. It's gonna get easier,
yes, Mike, a little harder, but over time it will get
(42:35):
easier. Putting yourself first can feelscary and selfish, but with practice,
it does get easier. Right.And when I say it's harder, you're
gonna get some some backlash from people, for sure, yeah, or shit
shitty backlash, backlashy shit shit lash. You'll be getting some shitlash. Okay,
Okay, sorry, go, butyou know what, You're worth it
(42:59):
and you should come first. It'syour life. Yeah, this is your
story. Be the protagonist, Bethe hero of your own story. This
is all about you. Yes,And people are just gonna have to deal
they are, and people will getused to it. They will, they
won't, And who the fuck cares? Yeah? Sometimes you have to figure
out who truly loves you, whoyour true friends are, and they may
(43:21):
not be blood related, you know. Yeah, it ends okay, Yeah,
it is okay, it is okay. You've got us, Ophelia say
and t you both have us.I guess that's gonna wrap up this episode.
We've been sort of putting off thebreakup episode as we're working through shit,
so we don't actually have a lotplanned to talk about. So yeah,
(43:44):
that's it. I feel How doyou feel, Mary, now that
we've done this, I feel okay, and I'm glad we didn't go into
a lot of detail. Yeah,it's our personal shit, yeah for sure,
but it does feel good to sharewith our listeners who've been very invested
in us, in the podcast andwhatever. It feels good to just lay
it down there and be good withit. And I want to thank everybody
(44:07):
in advance for their support as wego through this. Yep, this isn't
a sides thing like we mentioned before. No, please just support us both
and this decision. This is absolutelya no fault divorce, right. I
know, like movie stars say thatshit and it's not true, but and
then it comes out later and theyhad seventeen girlfriends on the side, and
(44:29):
then you're Johnny Depp and you're incourt. Well fuck, that was a
good one. Yes, no faultdivorce seriously, and we love each other
and we're going to keep loving eachother and keep doing the things that we
love to do together. And that'snot going to change. No, absolutely
not. And I want to thankboth Tea and Ophelia for writing in.
Thank you for your bravery, thankyou for sharing your stories. I also
(44:52):
want to thank Dan from Extension Audio. You know, I don't think Dan
has heard us thank him in awhile. Thanks for leaving it in Dan.
Ye. And he also didn't realizewe had broken up, so this
he will find that out listening tothis podcast. Yeah, when we send
this for the first edit, he'sgonna be like, oh fuck, yeah,
it's gonna be news to Dan.It's not talent. Let's just send
(45:13):
that good over, ok. Yeah? Wow, Dan, If you want
to record your response at the endof this episode and put it in there
and fucking do it, that's upto you, buddy, do you Dan,
We're all doing ourselvesselves. That's badwell these days? True? Oh
(45:35):
God you Mary, I love you. We will be talking to y'all soon.
Absolutely, we're not quitting. Canyou still say this, Dear Clear
of Cults, because that's still applicable. Well you just did. No,
I didn't because there's no joke,no joke at all. You later byeye
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