174: Memoir of an Ex-Mormon Lesbian

Please welcome Chris Davis, author of "Worthy: The Memoir of an Ex-Mormon Lesbian." Chris spoke to us candidly about her experience growing up Mormon, her struggles with marriage and children, and a 17-year crisis that culminated in a huge turning point that led to a brand-new chapter in her life. Her book can be found on Amazon or at chrisdavisproud.com. Also, check out Chris's essay in "I Spoke to You with Silence," also on Amazon.

TW: we discuss suicidal ideation openly in this episode. Please listen responsibly or feel free to skip this one if that topic is difficult for you.

Music provided by Purple Planet: https://www.purple-planet.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, Shelly. On today's episode, we have a special guest once again.
Are you gonna say something this?Sorry when you say something, No,
I'm laughing because we actually just recordedthis like three minutes ago, and
I fucking went off about something thatneeds to be in scandals and a dandled
session, scandal sessions, and Igave a little too much information. So
Mary's like, I don't know ifwe want that out in the public.

(00:21):
H So we're doing a duover.This is take two on an intro.
Good God, and welcome to ourlives. Anyway, Mary, carry on
with the intro. I haven't hadenough coffee for this. No. Yeah,
Today we are interviewing author Chris Davis, whose book is called Worthy,
The Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian. Actually, I'm not sure how new

(00:42):
it is anymore, because we arereally behind in our recording schedule. It's
relatively new, I would say,like in the last year. It's pretty
new. Sure doesn't make it anyless of a phenomenal book and make Chris
have any less of an amazing storythat she tells. Yeah, and how
about that word worthy? Huh?Fuck it, fuck that word. And
that's how I started going off whatwe recorded three minutes ago, which will

(01:04):
be on Scandal Sessions. Thanks forgetting that name right, appreciate that.
And we decided to use the wordworthy and incorporate that in patron names at
the end about how people are worthy. Yeah, it seems like we've been
very negative lately with the patron names. We're like, all right, we're
gonna go with things that God hates. We're gonna go with with why you

(01:26):
suck. We're gonna go yes,yes, we're flipping that around it.
Yeah. Yeah, we need smelluplifting patron name. Anyone who has a
ship, patron name, whatever,just just do the opposite. Just decide
what the exact opposite is. Yeah, and maybe Shelley can mute her device.
I knew that was coming. Where'smy phone? Hang on, but
we're gonna take a break, yeahand be right back. Yep, be
right back. Hey, everybody,Welcome to Ladder Day Lesbian, the podcast

(01:55):
about an ex Mormon gay girl justtrying to figure out her life. My
name is Mary, my name isand life is not figured out and it
just keeps getting more complicated and weird. But you know what, that's what
life is about. It was easyI mean, it'd be fucking awesome if
it was easy. Not gonna lie, but yeah, yeah it's not easy.
So Shelley, Yes, we havea very special guest today. Yeah,

(02:19):
we do. I love doing interviews, by the way, If I
do, I do, And I'msuper pumped about this one because, uh,
this person that we're interviewing has beena long time LDL listener and she
started at episode one. So shefollows directly. She follows directions, at
least my directions. I don't knowabout other directions, but anyway, Mary,
go ahead introduc her. Well,today we have Chris Davis. So,

(02:40):
Chris is the author of Worthy,The Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian,
and welcome Chris. First of all, welcome to Lattery Lesbian. Thank
you. I'm thrilled to be here. Rack, we are so happy to
have you. I want to readthe blurb that is also, did you
say on the inside cover of thebook, on the book jacket or something?
Yeah, it depends on which versionyou get. Yes, okay,

(03:04):
well we're going to set it upwith this, but there's so much more
to the story, and that's whyChris is just gonna tell us the story
in her words. So Chris Daviswas a lifelong devout Mormon who checked all
the expected boxes of wife, mother, teacher, leader, follower, and
believer until twenty twenty, when sheleft her family and her church to fulfill

(03:24):
her own personal destiny as a gaywoman and independent thinker. She remains close
with her two adult children, oneof whom is a believing member of the
church, and the other who isa transgender man who has also left the
church. So, Chris Davis,Welcome to Lettery Lesbie. I think I
said that allreaday, but I wantto say real quickly, I think of

(03:46):
three words when you read that introbrave as fock, totally yes, totally
thanks and I was tempted to correctMormon to a Church of Jesus christis the
Latterday? Say its? I mean, who's with me? Who's with me?
It's a win win for Satan.Good job Rusty's going to be when

(04:09):
he reads this, Not that he'sgoing to read it, but I'll give
him a call. I'll be like, Yo, Rusty, Chris just fucked
up the title. You got himon your speed out? Okay, yeah,
absolutely, I do. Was it? Wait a minute, was it?
Russell M. Nelson who thought itwas a win for Satan or something.
Noah, he was the one,right, Yeah, after billions of
dollars spent on the I Am aMormon campaign from the previous in Quotations profit.

(04:30):
But we're not we're not going totalk about that. It's whatever.
Yeah, we digressed very quickly alreadyas a matter of fact. So Chris,
okay, you have this story,and I want you to tell it.
I'm sort of summing it up.Where you had decided to stay in
a life that was making you miserable. That was the decision you were you

(04:54):
were going to make until you're oneof your children was seventeen? Is that
the story? Yeah, he wasfifteen when he came out to Yeah,
okay, actually, in the sameconversation that he came out to me as
trans or as non binary at thetime, I came out to him as
a closeted lesbian. Oh my god, that's oh wow. I love it.
And then I'm coming out and thenyou're coming out, wells coming out.

(05:15):
Everybody's gay in a perfect world.So why don't you back it up
and let's hear a little bit aboutyou know, kind of your upbringing.
The whole getting married. Yeah,because deciding to stay in a life that
makes you miserable. Uh, andbut you have to for some reason.
And then at this point, I'mgoing to die by suicide. So trigger

(05:40):
warning, trigger warning to listeners.If suicidal ideation is difficult for you,
then consider skipping this episode or justskip not just self care. You take
care of you. We understand.Okay, so that was the decision you
had come to, So we wantto hear about what led up to the

(06:02):
point that, you know what,this is just my life and this is
what I got to deal with.And uh but wait, I want to
hear about the decision to get married, like that's a big thing for tell
us the day you were born?What was that like, your great pup?
Sorry, married, But it's interestingto me. Can we go to

(06:23):
the pre existence for a second.Clearly she was a valiant spirit because she's
here and she's not of another raceother than white. Although you are gay
some men, I want to knowbecause I do think that women and men

(06:45):
whatever within the church, even thoughthey already like know that there's somehow queer,
there's still this pressure to get married. So I want to know about
the marriage first. Okay, solet's go back to my paycheck of blessing
when I was seventy. There wego. Oh nice, that's always a
good place to start. So hangon, I'm interjecting again. So for
those of you who are brand newand chose not to start at the beginning,
A, I'm angry at you.But b A patriarchal blessing is a

(07:10):
fake blessing given to you by aman who's somehow an authority. That basically
is like reading the eight ball kindof thing, and they just make shit
up. And we've had a lotof people send their blessings in and they're
very, very similar. There's certainthings are supposed to say. But as
a believer, you're like, oh, this is my destiny. This is
exactly what God would tell me.Okay, yes, exactly. I call

(07:32):
it like an oracle. There yougo. Yeah. So I had already
decided by seventeen that I was notgoing to have children, and I was
questioning, you know, my future, my sexuality, my interests, and
I was just sublimating all of thatfor the church. So in my patriarchal
blessing, it says clearly several timesthat I will get married to a man

(07:57):
that he will take me to thetemple a righteous priest, and that we
will have children, and that wewill I will raise these children in my
earth life. And I was cressfun, no pressure, and no pressure.
Exactly when when the blessing was over, the patriarch kind of just did
an aside and he said, Ihope you like children, because you're going
to have them, Oh my god. And I was like, oh,

(08:20):
no fucker. And so actually Iremember on my mission like standing in front
of the old, dilapidated microwave,hoping that it would make me sterile.
Oh wow, I don't mean tolaugh. It's funny, but it's not
funny, right, I mean,it reveals a lot. But yeah,
yeah, So did you you knewby then already that you are you in

(08:45):
inklings, that you were a lesbianor how did that work for you?
Yeah? I started. I gotintroduced to the idea when I was about
seven in first grade, and thenit was always in my head. But
you know, I started going tochurch at more regularly at nine, ten,
eleven, twelve, and those areformative years, and I heard messages
that were very much against that kindof thing, and so I was like,

(09:09):
Oh, that can't be me,that can't apply to me. I'm
a good girl, you know,But it did. Yes, the decision
to go on a mission was thatall related to fixing anything. It was
in my paytarch a blessing that Iwould serve a mission. And I was
already dating the man who would becomemy husband. I had been dating him

(09:31):
for a little bit and he wasn'tready to get married, and so I
was like, Okay, I guessI'm going to serve my mission now instead
of when we're old together. Youknow, Oh God, I have that
in my blessing about serving a mission. And I also assumed that it was
that Brent and I would serve missionswhen we were old. Don't you love
hows like some random church oracle.Basically, we'll run your life against what

(09:54):
you feel inside. It was heartbreaking. It was heart wrenching actually, because
I was, you know, atan age where I'm trying to learn how
to listen to my own intuition andlisten to my own feelings and thoughts.
But I had to converse oh no, no, no them and shut them
down. I mean, are Mormonsreally encouraged to follow their own thoughts?
No, not if they go againstthe teachings. And if they go against

(10:18):
the teachings, your bishop will tellyou, well, you need to keep
praying and asking for answers that goalong with the teachings. That exactly That's
what they told me. That waspart of the trans conversation too, when
my son came out. What ifyou just feel like you never get those
answers that line up, well,then the priest did will tell you what

(10:39):
they are. I'd say, youdon't get to go on your own.
Come on, you can, actually, if you're a woman, get over
here. You just convince yourself foryes, spirits, because if you have
authority above you that supposedly is connectedto God and talking to them all the
time, then clearly you are notcapable of getting any kind of inspiration or
having self thought, and so youdoubt you're sin off and you go with

(11:00):
what the priest holder says. Yeah, yes, And these priesthood blessings,
don't they all pretty much say goon a mission and get married and have
lots of kids. I didn't knowthat. Yeah. Again, we've had
people send theirs in him like,oh shit, this is the same thing.
I thought it was personal and thesame patriarch is like, all right,

(11:24):
who's next, and YadA YadA,mission be faithful. Yeah anyway,
sorry, okay, carry on.That was a nice side about blessings.
So I came home from my missionand decided that I needed to be like
as as my mission president put it, anxiously engaged in trying to find a

(11:48):
you know, a husband and makea commitment with him. And so it
was another couple of years though,before he was ready. And so I
was dating other people, and Iwas I was engaged to someone else,
and I got disengaged, and itfinally, you know, came together.
Tell me about the attraction lack youknow, traction or lack thereof for the

(12:09):
people that you were dating. Mostlyit was just based on does he like
me? Is he interested in me? Would he have me for a wife?
So he gets the power, that'sthe same boat I was in.
He he gets the power to decideif I am worthy to be his exactly.
Not so fucked up? Okay,God, you know, I will
have to say that as a gayor queer person, Mormonism is kind of

(12:33):
a good bet before you're married,because there's really no expectation to have premarital
sex. You know what I mean. So, I mean, yeah,
that's a weird I mean until untilthe marriage happened. It's a weird pro

(12:54):
and it makes up for everything youcan't just kick the marriage can down the
road, huh. And it's aperfect religion for you if you don't want
to have sex before you're eighteen,because that's when people get married. Yeah,
you're good to go, although theystill do. But whatever, good
input Mary Jesus leave. We won'task Chris to describe any of that.

(13:24):
I mean, if you want.I was in provo. Yes, oh
shit, I don't think. Idon't think the when the push wasn't around
back then. It was No,I didn't know about it. I mean
it probably happened, but they didn'tname it. Okay, anyway, So
you're your og boyfriend decides to askyou to marry him two years left,

(13:46):
you were ready? Yeah, tellus about how you felt about that.
So, I actually it was weirdbecause I I had gotten inspiration in the
temple that I needed to move backto New England, That's where I'm from.
I was really strong and I waslike, Okay, maybe I'll be
a hot commodity there's an RM areturn missionary and maybe, you know,
maybe that's where my future lies.This is what God is telling me.

(14:07):
And so I shared that with mynow ex now X gotcha. He took
me to the park and gave metwo dozen roses and said, please don't
move to New England. And Isaid, if I stay, I have
to believe something is going to happen, like, you know, progress in
our relationship. Because he was kindof stalled and he said, I know,

(14:31):
and he bowed his head. Andso the next day I was like,
where are we going to shop forrings? There? You go?
Wow, isn't it interesting? Sorry, I'm gonna interject real quick. So
in the temple you received inspiration,and I think it's interesting. I mean,
I don't hold any weight of templeanything in my mind, but your

(14:52):
inspiration was directly focused on you needingto find someone that will marry you.
Yeah, I mean nothing else.It wasn't like where should I go to
school? What's you know? It'slike you need to get married, go
to Maine. And I'm not doubtingthat you had those feelings, But what
looking back, what do you thinkabout that? Now? Uh? I
think it was it was a hyperfocus on something that's not even it's not

(15:13):
even necessary to get married so earlyor at all or at all true true
to a man. All right,jump forward, we get married in the
temple. What was that like foryou had been to the temple before,
because you had gone on a mission. I went faithfully every week to the
temple at least once a week anddid a session. I did a lot
of genealogy and did the work formy ancestors. I was all in God,

(15:35):
Chris, that's so boring. Baptismsfor the dead, endowments for the
dead, even Oh my God,I do I get it. I did
the same thing as she just wantedto get touched under her robe. She
wanted to get touched her I gottaget it somehow. You go in.

(15:58):
You're like, can we just dothe wah an annointed? You'd be great.
I get to the left. Ohwow, oh, reverend, I
love it. Okay, so you'remarried. Next up as kids, Yeah,
we took a couple of years forme to feel like I was ready
to start that. And I wastwenty eight when my first was born.

(16:22):
I did not feel called to motherhood. I struggled to connect with my baby.
I had postpartum for a year.It was a real struggle. Wow,
did you feel guilt about that?Oh? Absolutely? Like what's wrong
with me? Am? I notrighteous enough that I can love my baby
and be a great mom? OhGod, that's the fulfillment of my eternal
destiny, right, It's the onething that you are supposed to be good

(16:45):
at, the one thing if nothingelse, you should be able to do
this, And you suck at it. That's how I felt, too,
Yeah, get it. Absolutely,it was exactly it. And so when
I had my second baby, Ihad postpartum for like a year and a
half and then and my brother passedaway, and so I had nothing in
the tank and the bottom fell out, Like my life was in shambles.

(17:10):
And that's when I actually went inthe hospital because it was so bad and
I was just ready to give up, and I had this little family,
and I went in the hospital andI finally admitted to myself that I was
gay and that I had made ahuge mistake, that I'd made a mess
of my life and the lives ofmy immediate family, and what was I

(17:32):
going to do about that? Andhow was I going to live true to
myself? But also fulfill this commitmentto these small humans. Yeah. Oh,
that's such a shit moment, sucha shit moment where it's like it
was rough. I want something else, but I have children. I made
this life. Yeah, I madethis life. What the fuck do I

(17:52):
do? And it's anyway you chose, go ahead. I chose to live
true to myself. In an interestingway is that I was going to fulfill
my commitment to my family. Butthen I had made a plan that I
was going to end my life whenmy youngest graduated high school, and so
that was like my way of kindof not conforming and my way of rebelling.

(18:15):
I don't know, it's kind ofweird. Well, I have a
question about that. So why wassuicide the option that you had landed on
versus I'm going to get out ofmy marriage. Divorce just wasn't on the
table, like it's an eternal commitment. But so you still believe, you
still believe. Oh, I wascompletely fully in until like until until just

(18:37):
a few months before my youngest cameout to me in twenty seventeen. So
my brother died in twenty two thousandand three. I'm sorry about your brother.
By the way, yeah, thankyou. Yeah, so sorry,
but I'm confused. So Mormons believepotentially that homosexuality is a sin, let's
say, but don't they also believethat suicide is a yes, So how

(19:00):
do you pick which one to do? Because the church at the time taught
that there are no gay people inheaven and so dying would cure me and
then I would be free to Yeah, I would be like a hetero and
I would be comfortable and appropriate afterI was cured. You know, that

(19:22):
is most definitely a teaching. Iknow, the gay part didn't come and
that teaching until people were starting tocome out. But previously it was like
any kind of any kind of difference, whether it be a physical ailment,
you're the wrong race, you know, whatever it is, it supposedly is
all in heaven. When you die, you will be perfect again, meaning

(19:44):
white and delightsome, straight, nophysical differences, sure, except for the
TK smoothie. So yeah, Icould see that you're like I am suffering.
I was born in sin being thatI'm gay, So I'd rather just
call it good after I raise mykids and just fucking start over in heaven.
Am I right on this? Okay? And also I felt like my

(20:07):
brother had died in that I feltlike, why am I staying here?
You know, like when that couldbring me so much peace just to follow
him. Gotcha, that makes sense. Wow, So how did that change
your decision as your life went onwith raising your children. It didn't.
Oh, it was still in effectuntil twenty twenty. Wow. And you

(20:29):
had like lots of I'm gonna sayhigh callings, which is bullshit if you're
a woman. But as far aswomen go, like you were still less
than an eleven year old boy,but you did serve in some you know
whatever, higher callings than your randomI did, thirteen year old girl.
Yeah, tell us about that.I was the Young Woman's President. I

(20:51):
was in the Release Society presidency.I was over Enrichmond Night, which is
the monthly gathering of the women ordinatedthat. I was the primary pianist for
a few years. Yeah, somesome pretty involved callings. So do you
actually play the piano or they're justlike you look good. I don't even
touch a piano. Now. Ihate trauma because I was just used so

(21:18):
much, you know, never paidfor anything expected Like, oh, I
remember they would make changes to theprimary program that the children were going to
sing in front of the congregation.They would make changes like the morning of
and there was no like regard forhow difficult that is for the pianist.
It was just it was just gowith the flow, Chris, come on,
use the spirit. The spirit willguide you bad. You're like watching

(21:41):
me fuck up this song. Ohmy gosh, I have a child of
God will never sound the same again. Bitches, I gues said, I
know this might be a good timefrom Mormon mad lib. We don't have
one already. We haven't done onein a long time. It's been a

(22:02):
bit Yeah, all right, Soyou've served a shit ton within the church,
given up all of your time,made zero money, just your typical
And I have a question. Sothis whole time you're doing all these things,
all the expected things in the church, and your wife and mother,
the whole thing in the back ofyour head, though, is this idea
that at a certain time coming upin the future, you are going to

(22:26):
die by suicide. You had thisplan and that's what you were gonna do.
Like, how long did you havethis plan in your head? Seventeen
years fall from two three to twentytwenty. I died every day for seventeen
years. Oh my god, andyou never doubted your choice. No,
I felt like that was the like, doctrinally, that was my decision,

(22:48):
like I based it on doctrine andpolicies. Oh fucking church, fucking cult.
Yeah, seriously, everybody listening,get out of the fucking church.
Do you know somebody in the church, Get on the fuck out seriously.
So jump forward to your I'm sorry, is this your son now or your
daughter? And you? How doyou want us to talk about them before

(23:11):
transition or does it not matter?I just call him my son. Okay,
let's talk about your son, becausewe know a big thing happened there
between you two. Yeah. Soin twenty seventeen, like at the very
end of the year, he hadstarted going to this diversity club at school,
which I knew what that meant thatmy husband didn't know secrets. Yes,

(23:32):
And he started exploring some of hisidentity and talking with his friends and
trying things on. And he hadbeen hinting for a couple of weeks that
maybe something was coming, some kindof revelation for him. And he was
saying things like, well, youknow, my friend is trans and how

(23:55):
do you feel about that? Andyou know what would that be like,
and so kind of feeling us out, both of us, my husband and
I, and he finally just gotthe guts one night too. We were
in the car in the driveway andI parked the car and he just he
just spilled it, and he waslike, would you still love me if

(24:15):
I was trans Oh, that hurtsmy heart. That hurts my heart.
And I was like, of course, of course, I will always love
you, and thank you for trustingme with your truth. And by the
way, I'm gay two yeah,yeah, yeah, But mostly just I
wanted him to know that that loveis the only appropriate response to that absolutely

(24:40):
and safety, like, clearly you'rea safe well clearly he trusted you enough
obviously to tell you I would onlyimagine and tell me if I'm wrong that
when you returned with like, hey, guess what, I'm gay too,
there's this bond of safety, ofa safety secret, right you know what?
That is exactly what happened, becausefor the next three years he kept
my secret from everyone, including hisown father. I wasn't I wasn't ready

(25:03):
to disrupt my marriage yet. Soyeah, he came out to right away,
He came out to everybody, buthe kept my secret. Later,
after we the two of us leftthe church, we would spend our Sunday
mornings at Panera with our milky whitecoffee and our sweet tea, and we
would toast and bear testimonies to eachother that we were so grateful that we

(25:26):
had left the church. Oh mygod, I love it. Let me
let me guess no piano playing inPanera. I taught him all the secret
handshakes. It was wonderful. Ihave taught those to my kids too,
and they look at me like I'ma weirdo. Uh. Oh god,
I love it. But we bondedreally well. Oh for sure. I

(25:48):
wonder as you taught him more ofthe wacky shit, was he more like,
Mom, what the heck? He'sstill finding out wacky shit, And
he's just like, why did youdo that for so long? But you
know, we were we weren't itright? Yeah? No, I know
I didn't think it was wacky atthe time. Absolutely, that wacky shit
runs deep. Yeah. So,going back to the story and you and

(26:11):
your son having a secret for threeyears, at what point did your husband
start to I mean, was itall at once. It's like, we're
leaving a church, your daughter's nowa son. I am gay, Like,
did you hit him all at oncewith this stuff or how did that?
I didn't when when my son cameout, we had some discussions with

(26:32):
the bishop because he called us intothe office. My son came out on
his YouTube channel and the Young Woman'spresident saw it. Oh my god,
and just all he said was,Hey, this is my new name,
this is my these are my newpronouns, you know, and you know,
nothing against the church or anything.But he he got with of it,

(26:53):
and he he called us into hisoffice to manage expectations early. As
he put it, Oh my god, and he said, you know,
there's no such thing as transgender ornon binary or gender queer or anything.
You're looking at it Jesus, Ohmy god. I okay. So I

(27:14):
recorded these interviews. There were threeof them. I have them on my
phone. Awesome, we might needthose for a scandal sion. I was
like, this is gonna be good. I have to record it. But
I was still believing at that time. But I had already started, like
a few months before, I hadstarted investigating the truth claims of the church

(27:37):
and learning about the polygamy with JosephSmith. And you know all this stuff.
And I read this book called CombatingCult Mind Control, and our church
is in that I should be yeah, yeah, And it was just telling
like how do you spot a cult? And I was like, oh my
god, they says the Church ofJesus Christ are lotterday saints on the outside
of the church. You just spottedit. Yeah, absolutely, So I'm

(28:00):
curious what was the moment where you'relike, oh my god, I need
out. Was there a certain teachingor just exhaustion. It was the last
day that we talked to the bishop. There were three meetings with the bishop.
The first one was just my husbandand I and then the second two
were with my son also in theroom, and he was being awful.
The bishop was just being awful,and my son was like trying to ask

(28:22):
specific questions to see if he couldstill stay in the church and betrans like
he was trying, and the bishopwas like, you know, it's it's
not compatible. And so we leftthat interview and then a couple of my
friends like contacted me and said,bishop just contacted us, and OU did

(28:44):
your son and Jesus Yeah, andsaid that we're not allowed to use the
name and pronouns, and I waslike, what fuck? And so I
texted my bishop and I was like, are you talking to people about what
we discussed? And he was likeyeah, I'm just trying to protect the
congregation and and then he was likehe was trying to defend himself. And

(29:07):
I gave him three chances and thenI was like, I type the words
you are a prick, and Ilike hovered over the sun button for a
little bit, and I was like, my husband was in on that group
text too, and I was like, oh, yeah, you prick.

(29:29):
It was the last moment of mychurch life. It was like did he
respond? No response at all?Nothing? He still has a respond.
Oh my god. Fun good foryou. I'm scary shit to tell your
bishop he's a prick. I loveit because you're defending your child over this
dick face. Yeah. And thisthis again reinforces this goofy thing that happens

(29:55):
in the Mormon Church where any oldperson with a penis can be the head
of a chur the bishop, withoutany training, without any counseling as far
as like how how to counsel people? Where's the classes in seminary or whatever
it is that teaches you how tocounsel people and like holding a confidence yeah,

(30:15):
is one of one. No fuckingtherapist would ever tell anyone. I'm
talking family members, anyone, exceptif you're like, I'm about to murder
my mom, But wouldn't do that. Can't do that legally, right,
legally they cannot do that. Sohow is this guy able to do that
sort of bullshit? Well, he'snot trained, but in his mind it's

(30:38):
his job as the father of thewar, Yes, to protect the members.
And in his mind, your sonwas gonna fuck everybody up. They
didn't want your son, but theydidn't want your son fucking up the ward
exactly and being a bad influence onthe other young women. Yeah. Well,
and also, I think a lotof people right now are duped into
thinking that the Mormon Church by andlarge accepting, but when you get down

(31:02):
to the bishop by bishop level,it sounds like that's not the case at
all. And I guess it depends. Maybe it's bishopric roulette, you know,
it depends on who your bishop is. I'm guessing your prick bishop for
this to happen again in twenty twentythree would be the same answer, in
the same warning, he would Yes, oh, I have a new buzzword.
Instead of Bishop Rick, it's BishopPrick. Bishop Prick. Yeah,

(31:29):
Mary, Oh my god. So, Shelly, this sounds like a good
time for a break. I agree. We'll be right back, and we're
back. Hello. It was sointeresting during these meetings though, Like in
between the second and third meeting,he talked to my son and he was
like, I want you to goand pray about this, and I want

(31:52):
you to come back next week whenwe talk and let's discuss what God tells
you about what havenly Father tells youabout your decision. And he was like,
and you and your husband need topray about it too, and just
make sure that you're in alignment withthe Church's teachings. And of course,
it, you know, like threatenedto take our array. I recommends if

(32:12):
we didn't fall into alignment. Andso we came back the following week and
my son said that he felt likeGod was with him on this journey.
Now he's not not, according tothe bishop. Pray. The bishop was
like, Nope, that's not theright answer, basically is what he said.
And I said, wait a minute. I jumped in. I was

(32:32):
like, so you told him togo home? And pray about it.
Just pray that he would be inagreement with what you said. And he's
like no, And I was like, oh, yeah, this is so
obvious. Yeah, that's exactly whatyou were going to say. I had
that happen too everyone. I thinkeveryone that's leaving the church with questions,
most everyone will have a bishop saypray until your answers is alignment with the

(32:57):
church, because any other answer isfrom the devil. Yes, clearly.
But what I love about this partof the story, Chris, is here
is your son coming up with adifferent response than the bishops. But if
you go back in time when youare ready to move to Maine to start
your life over, you didn't,and when you had doubts about and I

(33:19):
don't even feel a calling to bea mother, you did it anyway,
you know what I mean. That'sa good point fast forward. You are
now standing up for what you believeis right. You know, yeah,
because it was my kid, youknow, yeah, I heard it my
whole life. I heard how wickedhomosexuals are and how they're sinners and we
love the sinner but hate the sinand that kind of thing. But until

(33:43):
that was aimed at my kid.Yeah, oh no, I did not
want him to experience that kind ofself loathing, you know. I didn't
want that to be his inheritance forme. Yeah. From the church,
Yeah, I just love how theyteach you to hate yourself if you're queer,
like your entire life, even ifthey don't know that you're queer,

(34:05):
they teach hate. So in yourmind, you're like, I hate myself,
yes, yeah, And I don'treally know how anyone successfully loves the
sinner but hates the sin, Like, how does that even work? It's
a lie? Yeah, because there'sno way to show someone true unconditional love
when you're judging the shit out ofthem, right, right, there's just
no way to do those two judgingthe shit out of who they are,

(34:29):
right. Like I could say,listen, I love you, but I
don't like that you keep, youknow, holding up liquor stores like that
sucks, but but very specific,very specific. I've been watching True Crime
and there was a part about holdingup liquor stores that was just last night,
the fresh in my brain. Sowhat I'm saying is to to not

(34:52):
like to say, you love someonebut you don't like who they are as
a human being. That's fucked upbecause that's saying that who you are is
sinful. Yes, absolutely, andmy mother is stuck in that limbo right
now. She's a member of thechurch, but she, you know,
in order to answer her temple recommendquestion, you know, do you sympathize

(35:12):
with or associate with I'm not surehow they word it now, but it's
essentially, do you, you know, support people who teach against what the
church teaches? And she says,I love you, but I can't support
you because I need to pay moneyto go to the temple or I will
not be saved. Thank you Mormonteaching. Yeah, I know you got
a ten percent raise. Yeah youdid congrets at a girl. Okay,

(35:37):
So jumping forward, remind me howold was your son when he came out?
Fifteen fifteen, so we're hitting theage we're getting to where he's seventeen,
which is when you had decided,you know, I'll be good to
go at that point, when hewas eighteen graduating eighteen. I'm sorry.
Yes, So after the whole comingout and you're doubting the church, how

(35:58):
long did it take for you todecide I am not going to take my
own life. So I had afriend in twenty nineteen approached me. She
was a friend from the ward.We had been friends for over a decade,
and she said, I'm learning tobe a life coach. Will you
be a guinea pig for me sothat I can get my certification? There

(36:19):
we go? Did She didn't knowwhat she would she did, She didn't
know what she was getting into it. I didn't come out. So I
left the church in early twenty eighteenwith my son. But then it was
another three years before I came.Two years until I came out to my
husband and the world and my parents, you know, and everybody. And
so twenty twenty was the year thatmy youngest graduated from high school. That

(36:45):
was the year that I in AugustI left. I left my family on
August third. It's called my NewLife Day. And I celebrated every day
every year August third. I'm seton my calendar. I'm going to celebrate.
You do you know what I'm celebratingthis year? Why? I Am
going with my girlfriend to see Pinkat the met Stadium in New York.
Oh my god, we've seen BrandyCarlisle. How many times we actually advertised

(37:12):
the podcast at one of her concerts. I don't know that that actually happened.
I'm not convinced. We never gota bride to Oh we never paid.
They didn't send us a bill,so I don't know we had good
intention. We did, We reallytried. Okay, so let's take you
from I mean, let's talk abouthow your husband reacted and how did the
divorce come about. Yeah, sohe was completely shocked. He had no

(37:36):
idea, and I was under theimpression that he knew, but he it
was just never talked about. Wenever talked about it. Can I just
say that your ex husband's gaydar isclearly broken. I don't know. Maybe
she was good at thinking, beinglike the devoted wife, know like whatever,

(37:58):
whatever. He needs to get thatthing touned before he starts dating again.
Okay, there you go. Sheknew what she was doing, Shelley.
Oh cool, it's called acting acting. Yeah, wunning. Wow.
Wait, I had to know whatwas your hair like? Was it lesbian
hair or straight girl hair? Oh? My god? Okay, it's important

(38:20):
question. So this is an importantquestion and it actually applied, Thank you,
because when I was twenty and Iwas dating him and I was about
to go on my mission. Ioverheard him telling his friend that he liked
long hair, and so during mymission, I didn't cut my hair at
all, and I came back withlong hair for him. And I kept
that long hair for the next twentyyears until I turned forty. And then

(38:43):
I was like fuck that this ismy head, this is my hair,
and yeah, what long hair anymore? So I got a cut. Was
this was this before the divorce orappor like did he leave you over the
haircut? This is what I wasforty. I'm fifty two now, so
I was like twelve years ago.Yeah, and how long have you been
divorced? We separated in twenty twenty. The divorce became final about January twenty

(39:07):
twenty two. Okay, so thisrecent yeaheah, like just happy yeah,
oh wow wow. Okay, Soat some point in there, your son
as fifteen, comes out to you, You come out to your son.
Is it like a light switch atthat point, like, oh, I
don't have to die anymore? Likewhen did that hit you? No?
It was the life coach. Okay, back to the life coach. Yeah,

(39:30):
she did all these assessments on meand you know, surveys and trying
to figure out where my strengths wereand what I wanted to do with my
life. And so we came upwith this whole plan, and I like
played along and then I don't know, like after a while, I was
like, you know, I reallyappreciate you doing this for me, but
it's not ever going to happen becauseI have this other plan. Oh,

(39:51):
you still had your death by suicideplan, even though she was like having
you run for president? Okay,yes, why for president? I'll vote
for you. Oh yeah, Sowhen did it switch? When were your
like, man, I think Iwant to stay around. It wasn't until
she helped me make a plan tolive. She said, what if?

(40:15):
What if there are a few morechapters in your life that have more hope
and peace and happiness for you.Yeah, And so we came up with
a new plan for me. Soshe knew about the old plan. I
told her. Yeah. After we'ddone all the assessments and made the plan,
I was like, no, thisis never gonna happen. My life

(40:38):
coach helped me transition from my planto die into a bright, brilliant,
hopeful plan to live. Nice.I feel like we cannot get out of
this section of your life. Butit's so fucking good and it's so relatable
and everyone listening is like, ohmy god, me too, me too.
What was her plan? Like,I feel like we need to offer

(41:00):
like a website for this life coachyou. My book is dedicated to her.
Here you go. We can reachout to her when it happens.
So what was her plan? Herplan for me? Yeah, she was
like, you know, we discoveredthat I was creative. I didn't know
that, and so, you know, she's like, what would you like

(41:22):
to do for a living. Iwas a stay at home mom for the
whole time I was married, andso I never even had a career.
She's like, what would you liketo make a living at And I said,
if I could be a writer,that would make all my dreams come
true. Hell yeah, so youdid. You did become a writer.
I did. First. What Idid was I went back to school.
Yeah. That was our first stepas I went back to school. And

(41:43):
that gave me connections outside of mychurch family and my immediate family. It
gave me confidence, it gave me, you know, education, which was
empowering. Is this after the divorceor before before? Okay? And so
I actually had a professor who wasa philosophy teacher, and she encouraged me

(42:05):
to write my story, and soI wrote an essay about being gay in
the church and about this experience withthe bishop and my youngest and you know
how things were progressing after that.And the essay is actually published in an
anthology called I Spoke to You withSilence about Queer Mormon Stories Nice that came

(42:29):
out last summer. Is that availablefor purchase or is it online? It's
on Amazon. Yeah, and it'scalled again, repeat that, please,
I Spoke to You with Silence.Pray as the author per a, Y,
gotcha, Mary's going to make that. Put that in the show notes.
Thanks not to talk about myself,but I can relate with the whole
getting to the end of my Mormonlife, my forty years of Mormonism,

(42:51):
and feeling like, who am I? What do I want to do?
What does my life look like?Because you know, I have memories of
what I love when I was younger, before I was committed to being this
Mormon wife, and I look backand there were things that I just can't
do now I'm too old. Idon't want to go back to school forever,
and I've had to kind of letthat go. I have some sadness,

(43:13):
but I let that go. Butgoing forward, the excitement of the
fuck do I want to do?First it's super scary, and then it's
like, oh my gosh, Ihave the world. I have the world
at my fingertips waiting for me tobe me right. Yes, yes,
yes, it was terrifying and exhilarating. Yes. Yeah. So she was
helping you, like learn things aboutyourself. You're creative, you know,

(43:37):
it sounds like she was just helpingyou try to figure out who you were
in a lot of ways. That'sexactly what she was doing. She was
giving me permission to explore those thingsoutside of church. Wow, So that
probably was such a huge mind shiftfor you, Like who am I outside
of this crazy religion? Right?Like, like you probably never thought about

(44:00):
that before, Like who am Iever did? Well, Hey, they
don't give you time to think aboutyourself. Be you're not supposed to think
yourself. They don't give you apermission to think about because they already tell
you what you're gonna do. You'regonna be the youth leader, and you're
gonna have kids, and you're gonnabake pies and ship. You're gonna plan
every week and get a plan ofhappiness plan. Let me guess, Let
me guess Chris was not happy.That is that safe to say? I

(44:25):
looked happy. Oh. No,one would have thought that I was a
fucking mess inside, because you can'tshow that ship on the app. No,
you have to be a good exampleto your you know, the fellow
congregants. You have to like showthem faith and fortitude and and faithfulness.
Oh were you a big testimony bearon fast and testimony Sundays? No?

(44:49):
Oh, fuck you. I waswhen brainwashed the ship out of people,
not even knowing that's what I wasdoing. Yes, I want to call
every person the congregation and be like, yo, it's just some bullshit.
I actually didn't feel the spirit whenI told that story and cried. I
was just nervous. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, it was really confusing for

(45:09):
me to try to decipher between genuinespiritual experiences and just the heart cell that
the church teaches and presents and thelike. The sentimentality. Yes, it
makes you cry, it makes youemotional, it makes you feel deep,
strong feelings, but it's not real. It's not a confirmation of the truth.

(45:30):
Yeah, it was. I rememberhaving this moment where I went to
a Bonnie Rait concert and this waswhen I was kind of kind of leaving
the church, and it was like, I'm pretty sure I just felt the
spirit right now listening to and watchingBonnie Raid. So wait a second,
So that means Bonnie Rate is truebecause it was spirit. It's true,
Like what the fuck? Church?And so I know for me leaving the

(45:53):
church, and I've told the storyin earlier podcasts, but the doubt you
have in your own feelings is like, Okay, I feel this way,
but is that true or is itstill heart cell going on? And by
the way, heart sell people isthe church's way. They actually call it
that of giving you like the beautifulmusic and the moments, all this stuff

(46:15):
to force you to feel the spirit, which is the same as a Bonnie
Ray concert. So yeah, Idoubted my intuition for a long time.
The church sayes doubt you're dat well, very true, And that to me
must be one of the biggest strugglesfor people leaving Mormonism or high demand religion
is like, how do I trustmy intuition when I've suppressed it my entire

(46:38):
life. That was so hard.It was so difficult. Yeah, it
took a while to learn it andI'm still still learning. Oh yeah,
you're you're fresh out of the cult. Girl, you were the same,
And it's we're not done figuring ourshit out. It's like we're starting to
figure our shit out. We're startingto trust ourselves and for me, the

(46:59):
trusting what you feel and be likefuck it, I'm gonna go for it,
and then whether it works or not. To me, it doesn't matter
if it was a failure or success. I went with what I felt yes
good about it was my decision.Yes. Well, And the good news
is all of us humans here,maybe unless we're Eckert Tull or Oprah,
we're all still figuring it out rightand maybe figured out and doesn't know everything.

(47:22):
It never stops, It never stops, and that's it. I'm encouraged
by that because I know that I'mnot the only one like day to day
trying to figure my life out.You know. But the difference is that
the church teaches you all the answers, and so you walk around feeling like
you already have all the answers,you already know all the truths, and

(47:43):
so there's no reason to have introspection. You have the whole truth, got
it, and it makes you betterthan everyone else. Which, by the
way, I remember this part ofyour book where you talk about this isn't
your exact phrasing, but kind ofcoming down off your Mormon high horse and
feeling like part of humanity. Ifelt that so hard too. It's an

(48:04):
amazing, amazing, incredible feeling thatyou get from nothing else. Tell me
about it. Yes, I wasalways better than I always knew like more,
I had more wisdom, I hadmore spiritual connection with the divine and
so I was special. I waselite, and that kept me separate from
people. Yes, yeah, right, it kept them at a distance.

(48:24):
And so finally, once I wasable to leave that, that's what I
call it joining the human race.Like, finally I wasn't high and mighty.
I was one of the people.And I found that people welcomed me,
ye open arms. They didn't judgeme for how terrible I was before,
you know, and all the thingsthat I said when I was Mormon,

(48:45):
and yeah, and it was sobeautiful and so rewarding. Isn't it
interesting how the church teaches its membersto kind of be afraid of everyone else
like they're part of the world.World. We need to be a whold
higher standard because we have the truthof you know, black and you know,
Mormons aren't the only ones who saythat that's true. It's cults in

(49:07):
general. Yeah. I remember hearingthat as an evangelical. It's like,
the world is out there and we'rewe're different on the inside. You know,
you have to be protected from theworld. The world's coming to get
you. Yeah, And isn't itinteresting now that you're in the world,
they're like, come on, havethis cup of coffee, join us,
It'll be fine. And then prettysoon you're like a like a street whar

(49:30):
You're you're shooting up heroin. It'sslippery, slow cooking up some meth according
to Mormon teachings. But no,no, no, Instead, you know
what it is, it's a feelingof not judging people. That's what it
is. And that is such alift to your spirit to be like it's
so freezing. Oh god, it'sit's phenomenal. It is. It's nice.

(49:53):
Yeah, that was a nice part. I feel like we haven't touched
on. I mean, I'll thisis in your book, I'm assuming,
but but more detail and Yeah,it's just great getting your insights as right
now we're sort of telling your storyof how you change your life and you
still wanted to be here. Sois that what it is for you now

(50:13):
that I really want to be here. Not only am I not going to
go with my original plan to dieby suicide, I want to stay.
Do you know the first moment thatI felt that was just last year.
It was near the end of lastyear. I was talking to my girlfriend
and I said, for the firsttime in my life, I want to
grow old. Wait, like Iwant a girlfriend, girlfriend or friend that's

(50:36):
a girl. Okay, So myGirlfrienday, she's amazing, and she listened
to your podcast. She's a nevermo but she used to to podcast.
It probably helps her understand your wacky, crazy bullshit. Absolutely does, and
she says, Hi, by theway, Hi, lots of love,
lots of love. So even afteryou had left the church, you were

(51:00):
still kind of like, I mean, that's how deeply embedded the bullshit is.
And Chris had this plan for howmany years again, seventeen years,
seventeen fucking nuts. Yeah, yeah, so you had to adopt this new
plan thanks to the life coach.But then, like believing it that Okay,
I'm not gonna do this thing anymore. I'm gonna I'm gonna live.
Like when did you fully embrace that? And you said just last year that's

(51:23):
like, damn it. Not onlyam I gonna live, I want to
live. Yeah, yeah, I'mgonna crush this shit. Yeah. When
did that come about? Yeah?It was just I don't know, it
was kind of random. I wasjust really appreciating the love that I have
with her, and just you know, things were going well with my kids,

(51:44):
and you know, the book wascoming together, and I just felt
like so much hope for the futurefor the first time, instead of dreading
the future, instead of dreading youknow, fulfilling my personal destiny as a
wife and mother for eternity. Now, I was like, oh, I
can be something else and I don'teven have to think about eternity. Oh
my god, that's so freeing.I can just enjoy this life. Yeah,

(52:07):
love that. What are your dayslike looking forward now that you're not
a fucking Mormon. I am enjoyingthe fact that I don't know everything.
Ah. Yeah, Like I havebecome very settled and comfortable with sitting in
that uncertainty and I've discovered that Idon't have to have all the answers and

(52:27):
I don't have to look to somebodyelse for answers for me. That's huge,
that right there is it's huge.Yes, yeah, because, like
you know, when you're in thesehigh demand religion, especially Mormonism in this
case, but just having it allplanned out, and I just imagine that
it has to be terrifying to suddenlyone day you leave and now you don't
have it all planned out. Youdon't have a plan, You don't have

(52:49):
a plan, you don't have abelief. Yeah, you're ostracized from friends
and family. Yeah, you kneweverything beforehand, and now you fucking know
nothing except you don't want to bethere anymore. But you know nothing.
You have no faith, you haveno belief in an afterlife. You don't
know what you're supposed to be doing, you don't know who you are.
Some scary ship. Anyone listening who'sbeen through that, You're gonna make it

(53:09):
through. It's gonna be okay.I don't think we ever get finished,
but we can get past that shipand figure out who we want to be,
what we want to do, andlook forward to the discovery of not
knowing everything, and what can Ilearn today or tomorrow? You know I
love that too, Yeah, becauseI'm not not just having to learn how
to fucking bake bread and change diapers. I'm like, I know that ship

(53:32):
as to wither without a bread machine. With bread machine, that I wasn't
that good. I'm just che Youjust throw all those ingredients in there,
either, did I? Although Idid my ex and I shelled out thousands

(53:52):
and thousands of dollars to get fullone year supplies of food for fucking family
of nine, Like hello, nowonder. We ended up like we were
preparing for the Second Coming and wedidn't want our You're not in Missouri,
it doesn't count. You have tobe in the right stay well, the

(54:15):
devil is gonna come and the wholeworld's gonna break down and who knows,
zombies and shit whatever, and wehad to be ready. You know what
should cost to fucking have a yearsupply of dehydrated feet and like unground wheat
for nine people. I would ratherget killed by the zombie than have to
eat that ship. What a stupidlife we lived, Chris, It was

(54:38):
meaningless busy word God, and youheard it here folks. Ye, that's
their new tagline. What the Churchof Jesus Christ's latter days sayings meaningless busy
word. I'm gonna get spray paint. Don't tell the cops. I'm gonna
get spray paint and go put thatunderneath all the Church of Jesus Christ will

(55:00):
on the churches. I love that. What if we missed here and this?
I know we kind of jumped fromWe jumped a lot. We did.
That's what we do. Let metell you about my book, please
do. I started writing it justa stream of consciousness, and I ended

(55:21):
up with two different stories. Andso it was a challenge, a fun
challenge to combine those two stories intoone book. Did you pray for inspiration
on that? Did you show?There was no prayer involved in the book?
Carry on? In the writing ofthis book, each chapter has two

(55:44):
halves. So the first half ofeach chapter is a nostalgic story about my
childhood growing up in bangor Main,you know, a lot of them with
my brother or my grandparents or whatever. Just something happy and something a little
playful, little humorous. And thenthe second half of these chapter tells a
traumatic story of being in the churchas a woman or as a gay person,

(56:06):
or with my kid or whatever.And so in each chapter I develop
a theme and I draw that threadthrough both halves of the chapters. Interesting,
it's a badass, so it kindof balances out some of the heaviness,
brings in some levity. It's justeasier to digest. Sure, yeah,
awesome, get that. So,Chris, your book is out.
How do people get a copy ofit? And I want to say the

(56:29):
title again, it's called Worthy,the Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian by
Chris Davis. That's you, that'sme. Yeah, how do you get
a copy? So I'm getting theminto some local main bookstores. But also
it'll be available on Amazon, andit'll be the ebook, the hardcover,
and the paperback are all coming outat the same time. Nice, because

(56:51):
you know how I like to orderon Amazon. Still, still, it's
a habit. You can find linkson my website Chris Davisproud dot com.
Chris Chris Davis dot dot and Chrisis spelled C h R I S.
Davis. Yes, Chris Davis Prouddot com. I'm gonna put all this
in the show notes. Well,Chris, I want everyone to pick up
your book. Yeah, seriously,people, I know we cover a lot

(57:13):
here, but there there is somuch more. I know the story beginning
to end it if you would likea story that follows a linear line and
isn't jumping around like the way wedo an interview. What the book is
for you? Once again, it'scalled Worthy, The Memoir of an Ex
Mormon Lesbian. Look for it onAmazon or Chris Davisproud dot com. Chris,

(57:37):
thank you so much for joining us. Yes, this has been awesome.
It took a while to connect andhere here we are. It was
such a delight. Sorry, wetalked too much. No, never,
thank you, Mary. Never apologize. Shelley talks too much. I was
just about to say, she's probablyapologizing for me. He's gonna do a

(58:00):
blanket apology for the last four years. I'm sorry everybody. Sorry, bitch
Eggs. That's part of why welove her. I have to just disclose
that you guys are in my acknowledgmentsin my book. Help me laugh my
way to a place of healing.Shit. That's lovely. So what percentage

(58:23):
of royalties? We'll talk about thatlater. About it forever in the same
town. You buy us a beerand We're good. You got it,
Chris, thanks again, Thank you. Chris is fun. I hope being
able to hear from her on thepodcast gets you to like feel her a

(58:45):
bit. I like to know theauthors. I like to know who they
are outside of the writings of thebooks. So, Chris, you're fucking
awesome. Feel her a bit?Huh? Not like feel up her a
bit? Although sure whatever, Idon't know what ual consent informed consent.
Please Jesus, Mary and Joseph,you could feel the book clutch as you

(59:07):
want. Absolutely. Uh huh.How are we doing? Wait before we
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at random from the pile of reviewswill receive an intriguing mystery candle from the
Exmo candle Cose Permanent Collection Ooh,mysterious and smelly in the best way.

(01:00:15):
The drawing will be held on ThanksgivingDay, So hit the contact tab at
the top of their website and submita review. Now we are back.
Hello. Okay, I was aboutto jump into supercast. Bit. Let's
tell patrons, okay, I cando supercast. First, do it.
We've got one supercast member today.Uh, we're going to celebrate the heck

(01:00:37):
out of her. Yeah, MichelleO D O dot D something like that.
God, so we need an Odot D for what you are worthy
of. She might have an Irishsurname, Oh like O'Donnell or O daughtry
or O Dingleberry. That's rare.Did I make it sound right? Oh?

(01:01:02):
I think was better to marry yourteam. Shelley on the didgeridoo.
Don't make me do therremon noisees andegg? The fuck is a theremon?
Yeah, you don't know. We'lltalk about it later. I don't think
anyone do raise your hand if youknow what a therminda is. No one
raised their hand. There mind comingup in the future anyway. Okay,
so o d what was the firstname again? Michelle? Michelle, she's

(01:01:25):
worthy of something. She's worthy ofonion dip. Damn right, not that
you ever weren't worthy of it.I'm not sure everyone's worthy, Michelle,
you are especially worthy of onion dip. And you know what, you get
to pick whatever chip you want todip into your onion dip self. That's

(01:01:45):
weird. This is getting weird.Mary's sounding like Shelley right now. But
you don't like onion dep No,I do, but sure you go with
a wavy lace. I don't likethe wavy lace. You know, they
just crunch weird? Can we moveon from Michelle ode Michelle onion dip onion
dip? We apply don't have anyonion allergies because then, yeah, I

(01:02:07):
couldn't have I couldn't eat that.No, your body's not worth it.
I don't onions. No, it'snot great for me, but Michelle,
you enjoy that onion dip. It'sall you worthy. Yep, Oh that
was a long one, Sure wasall right. Patrons, the first patron
I have I think is a leftand come back patron. And by the
way, that's awesome. Yeah,no judgment here, no, no.

(01:02:28):
Sometimes the new names we give tonew patrons, they just don't stick.
Oh yeah, that's true. You'remaking us come up with a brand new
name for you every time. Everyonegets a new name every time you rejoin.
But don't just like join and thenquit and then join and them quit
like days at a time to getnew name new names, because we'll run
out of new names. It we'llstart giving you shit names. When we
noticed that already we already get oniondip. I just did that. Fine,

(01:02:52):
Okay, This new repeat patron,which we love you, thank you,
is j M last new G JMG. So are we coming up with
three things? No, that's toowell, we could try so just the
MG. What do we know?JAM is the first name jam j M.
We're just coming up with G.Yes, there's a last name.

(01:03:13):
Oh but we're just doing G.Well, I did the last one.
What is JM worthy of? JM? You are worthy of You can't
stop thinking about onion dip. Istill like these were all o's more onion
dip lan you're worthy of I wasgonna say good things, but that seems
so lame, and like, sorry, you try, you try. Let

(01:03:37):
me see, woo, I gotit, I got you do I do?
And I don't know the age ofthis person. Okay, JMG,
but your g is now geriatric care. Well, like when the time comes,
when the time comes, I'm notsure if you're like nineteen years old
or ninety nine, I don't know, but when the time comes, you're
worthy of it. Yeah, whenthe time comes, God damn it,

(01:03:58):
JM, you are worthy of goodgeriatric care. Double g's with a sound
and a hard and a soft G. That's that's double points two for JM.
Drops off again. I'll be like, fuck, what are we gonna
do next time? Well, notgeriatric care, because you're only worthy of
that once in your life for goodtime. Don't be greedy greedy another G

(01:04:19):
name that is a G. Huh? All right, thank you, JM.
Who is our next patron? KatieC? We know Katie? Oh
we do. Let's give her aweird one. We have partied with Katie.
We've gone to concerts with Katie.Katie's a fucking badass. Yeah she
is. Okay, let's see shedeserves a badass worthy name. I think
our dog bit Katie one time.Oh Domino did he? Yeah, he's

(01:04:41):
kind of an assholes. I meanhe's a sweetheart, but somehow he just
flips out when people stand up andwalk he for sure? Does? I
mean he didn't break the skin?Maybe he did. I don't know.
Sorry, Katie, Sorry, Katyis awful. Actually, we should probably
give her a good c name.Oh she is worthy of that, but
I'm not gonna say it out loud. It's your turn. I think Katie

(01:05:02):
is worthy of Oh you know what, Katie has a lot of cats.
Well, she's like a cat ladymore than one. No, I know,
I love her cats. I've takena nap with her cat. Complaining
about Katie's cats, you complain aboutmy cats? I do. I'm not
really a cat person. No.It's the funny thing about Mary not liking
cats is the more she dislikes mycats, the more they like her.

(01:05:24):
Fucking assholes. That's how cats worklike. I don't think you like me.
I think against you. I knowyou don't have to rub against me.
I didn't give consent to that activity. She asked, well, you
no means no, but you didn'tanswer in a cat land, if I
could learn no and cats speak,do you want to hear what it sounds

(01:05:45):
like? Okay, maybe a swize? Well played. Okay, so Katie,
catty cats. You're worthy of yourcats. That's very sweet. I
know I love your cats. Okay, who's next? S W? S
W? But just the W part? Well, yeah, no, she
gave me a name, but I'mjust doing the W. Okay, what

(01:06:06):
you got? So s W.I hope you know who we're talking about
here, because I don't know ifwe've had a lot of sw's. But
anyway, s witchcraft witchcraft. Youdo whatever kind of weird, funky ass
witchcrafty thing you want. You areworthy of exploring whatever you want, which
you witch. Well. Also,worthy itself starts with a W. Yeah,

(01:06:29):
but b S worthy could be No, that doesn't work because worthy is
what everyone's getting there, worthy ofwhat they're worthy of? Worthy? What
if this person doesn't want to beworthy of witchcraft? I'm just throwing that
out. It doesn't matter if theywant it or not. They are worthy
of witchcraft if they choose. Okay, and witchcraft can be interpreted in multiple
ways. So all right, interesting, weird. Like I said, Wicked,

(01:06:53):
I didn't like, like like narrowit down to one thing. Is
that a religion? By the way, Wicked, Well, I didn't say
it was a religion. Well,I don't know. I don't know anything
about it. It's a spiritual belief, is it? I don't know?
All you wickens right in? Letus know what it is there you go,
or we can google. But that'sless fun next to Linda, h
Linda, it's me huh. Theobvious thing would be to say Linda is

(01:07:14):
worthy of happiness. Oh that's verysweet, but that's a little boring.
So what about handbags? Linda mightbe worthy of handbags? Maybe maybe Linda
leg's handbags and collecting them. Maybehandbags makes Linda happy? And another two
for maybe maybe they do. Linda. Listen, you are you are worthy
of handbags. As many fucking handbagsas it takes to get you happy.

(01:07:36):
Collect them all, collect them all, like them all? Yeah, like
pokemon. Okay, thanks, Linda, we have one more. Uh,
Kaylee didn't give us a last nameat all, So Kaylee, I feel
like when people don't give us lastnames, we just go little nutty pants.
Okay, so what do you got, Shelley. Let's go with Kaylee.
Let's use her first initial for Kaylee. So Kaylee, K We're going

(01:07:58):
with k. Okay. So heyis the word you're trying to find?
Okay, which are a great one. Kaylie, you are worthy of kicking
ass. Oh yeah, Kayla,get out there and kick some ass.
There is nothing ass kicking that youcan't do because you are worthy of all
of it, all the ass kicking, all of it. I like.
Get well. Thanks all the patronsand supercast members today. Reminder, if

(01:08:19):
you would like to toss us alittle love, we sure appreciate it.
Please visit Latterday Lesbian dot org slashsupport. All right, can we wrap
this up? Wrap it up?All right? Thanks everyone? Thanks to
Dan from Extension Audio. Thanks forleaving it in Dan, We sure appreciate
you, and remember steer clear ofthose cults because they are no joke,

(01:08:43):
no joke at all. Talk toyou later. I