178: Austin Gets a Penis

In this episode, our good friend Austin Arrowwood is only a few days away from his gender-affirming surgery. You will learn that despite what your ultra-conservative family might tell you, you can't just walk into a clinic, tell them you feel like a boy, and they will staple your new dick on before lunchtime. Lots to learn. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
In this episode. This is myfirst solo interview. Probably gonna botch it,
probably gonna fuck it all the fuckup, But you know, hang
in there. Lucky for you all, I have our own Latter Day Lesbian
superstar here. Today I will beinterviewing Austin Arrowwood. So let's take a

(00:24):
quick break. Or maybe I won't. I don't know at this point.
I don't even know if I'm gonnado commercials. How about that. I
don't know what I'm doing. Okay, So I'm gonna take a break just
in case, and then come rightback. Welcome to the Latter Day Lesbian
Podcast, the podcast about an exMormon gay girl just trying to figure out

(00:45):
her life. I am Shelley.That's fucking it. I am Shelley.
But today we have Austin Arrowwood.Welcome to the show. Austin. Thank
Shelley. I'm happy to be here. Good. It would suck if you
were like talk a little bit reallyquickly about Austin. Austin was born and

(01:07):
raised as a faithful Mormon. He'sthe second of six children. By age
five, he knew his gender didnot match his insides. Austin was born
female. He got married in thetemple to a man at age nineteen and
had two kids. Sorry about that, by the way, the whole temple.
Shit, yeah, yeah, wecan do secret handshakes later. Okay.

(01:30):
They divorced. When he was twentynine, Austin came out as a
lesbian and was excommunicated from the church. He rejoined the church and lived as
a celibate lesbian for eight and ahalf years. Oh, we're going to
talk about that. We are goingto talk the fuck about that, Austin.
In twenty fifteen, he had hisname removed from the church records after
the exclusion policy was leaked and hisdaughter was denied for missionary service. He

(01:55):
was in and out of a mentalhealth unit thirteen times from age twenty five
to forty three, whilst struggling tohide his true identity from himself and everyone
else. In twenty twenty, Austincame out as trans. He started testosterone
in April of twenty twenty. Hehad top surgery in November of that year,
and next week he will be gettingbottom surgery. Four days. Oh

(02:20):
my gosh, so ld Ellers justsee you know, when I asked Austin,
I'm like, hey, man,I know you're getting surgery coming up,
would you be comfortable talking about it, because yeah, it's kind of
a private thing. And Austin waslike, fuck, yeah, nobody talks
about it. This needs to betalked about, Like where do you get
the information? What do you sowhatever, we're going to talk about that
shit. So, Austin, whenyou and I first met, God,

(02:47):
did you start listening to the podcastat the very beginning? I think so
I did. Yeah. I thinkI came in when you were like three
episodes in or something. Shit.But you started episode one though, right,
yes, of course? Okay,okay, good, good who and
and back then you were presenting asa woman like I met you as I'm

(03:12):
a pretty but sure, right rightthere was a talk of trans just yet
right right, So tell me,I guess how you found the podcast and
I kind of was a little bitof your journey from there. Okay,
so the podcast actually found I thinkI was googling like lesbian Mormons, you
know, because that's such a smallgroup of people, or I thought it

(03:38):
was anyway, and it's not adating site by the way, go ahead,
right right, So, uh,and I came across the podcast and
I listened and I was like,hey, I like these people. They're
pretty funny, you know. AndI was like seven kids, Holy fuck?
And uh, you know just gotdrawn in, I guess, and
you were still Mormon. Then Iwas, yes, well I was just

(04:01):
leaving the church actually, okay,yeah, and I then I got married
to a woman, and that wasanother yeah. Anyway, so I love
how you skimmed right over that.Do you need to do you need to
pry because I will pride? Okay, yeah, you got you got married.
You got married to a woman asa woman, you were lesbian woman.

(04:25):
Okay, yeah, so I gotmarried to a woman as a woman.
My parents refused to come to thewedding. They said they could not
be where evil resides. So yeah, so they would not attend my wedding.
And one of my siblings came,one of my sisters, and that
marriage was only for four years.It was one of those we probably should

(04:46):
have never gotten married. We madereally good friends, but yeah, I
should should have never gotten married.Do you think that that we never should
have got married has anything to dowith you being trans? Very much?
So? Yeah, okay, cool, I knew that I was trans.
I remember telling a therapist when Iwas twenty five that my gender did not

(05:09):
match right, and she convinced meat the time that no, I'm just
a lesbian. You know, I'mnot trans. Your therapist convinced me yes.
And this was not a Mormon therapist. Was this a mom therapist?
Okay, thank God? No.Actually, funny story. I was in
Mormon therapy for a long time becausemy bishop told me I needed to be

(05:30):
oh God. And the Mormon therapistactually told me, if you have to
choose between killing yourself or leaving thechurch, please leave the church. Years
later, I came across him onthe next Mormon board. He's no longer
a member. He took his wholefamily out with him. Good for him.
Yeah, and he was not Iwas with oh the S Family Services

(05:54):
when he was my therapist. He'sno longer you know. He judged them
a couple of years later. Soyeah, wow, they're so okay.
I know this is supposed to bean interview about your upcoming surgery, but
we're just there's so much to talkabout here. I just have a million
questions. So first of all,how old are you? I am only

(06:15):
forty nine in March. Okay,so we're like a year. I'm a
year older than you, so asyou're elder, I'm going to talk down
to you and tell you how lifeis okay because I've got this shit all
figured out right. So for megrowing up, trans it wasn't a thing.
You know, it was people werecalled transvestites, and it was a

(06:40):
bad thing, and it was justmen who dressed like women in order to
be pedophiles. Like that was theknowledge that I had. Is that absolutely
that's how you were taught. Yes, yeah, that's that's exactly it.
I did not know that trans menexisted. I never heard of that.
I've heard it, you know,I've heard of butch lesbian dykes as they
were often referred to. I hadheard that, you know, women like

(07:04):
to be masculine because they have peniseNB but never trans men. That was
not something I had ever heard of. So when I was twenty five and
I told my therapist, like,I feel like when God was handing out
jumpsuits in heaven, he gave methe wrong one, and like that's how

(07:26):
I worded it because I was like, I knew it was incongruent, it
didn't match with how I felt.But I did not know that that was
actually a thing that could happen.All I'd heard about was the negative.
There are men who dressed like womenand molest children, that's right, you
know, And so I was like, oh, I'm not one of those
people like that. Yeah, youknow. So yeah, I didn't think

(07:47):
it was even I didn't even knowit existed. So at what point,
I know we had I couldn't eventell which episode, but we interviewed someone
one time who's transom and her firsteye opening experiences experience was watching the Jerry
Springer Show where she saw like thesetrans people and she's like, oh my

(08:09):
god, that's me, which isso weird to have that, you know,
insight from the Jerry Springer Show.But was there something that clicked with
you that made you think, wait, this is actually a thing, right.
Well? I remember, like whenI was five, I would play
house with my best friend who liveddown the street, and I always wanted
to be the dad. I wouldput like rolled up socks in my pants

(08:31):
so that I would have a bulge, like I knew how my body I
wanted my body to look. WhenI was twelve eleven twelve, a girl
moved in across the street and Iremember putting my hair up in my baseball
cap and like rolling up my sleevesand playing basketball out on my patio,
trying to get her to notice meand wanting her to think I was a

(08:52):
boy, like I did not wanther to notice me as a girl,
gotcha, which was also confusing.And then I had dreams starting when I
was twelve, like sexual dreams,and in my dreams, I was always
male. I always had male genitals. I was always having sex with girls.
So it was very confusing to havethis going on in my head.

(09:15):
So I would stay in my head. I knew from the time I was
little, little, but I didn'thave words for it, right, I
just knew that, like and allI knew was I must be horrible and
awful and wrong because the church saidyou were female in heaven, you're female
now, you'll be female when youdie, so like there was no other

(09:35):
option. That that's it's kind oflike, you know, I got married
in the temple because there was noother option, Like, right, you
don't go be with women, that'snot going to happen because you were born
with the wrong genitals, So youknow, it's not actually a choice,
like sometimes people have told me,well, you chose to get married,

(09:56):
you chose to have all these kids, Like did I really you know,
I guess at the end of theday, I was like, like,
yeah, I made the babies withthe husband. I got married in the
temple. But the choice is youdo this because God wants or you don't
do it and you are a sinnerand you go to hell and your family's
sad. Like it's not a choice. It really isn't. Yeah, it's

(10:16):
like your choices. I tear apartmy family for all of eternity and everyone
hates me because I destroyed the familyunit. Or you get married and have
babies, like you know, likeit's not really a choice. It's kind
of like really is expected and youwill do it right, right, you
know that expectation is thick and running. Yeah, it's not at least in

(10:39):
my family, and I'm assuming foryears as well and most of our listeners.
It's not just a pass of likeyou know, it would be nice
if you would get married in thetemple. No, no, no,
no. It was like you dothis or you do nothing at all,
Like there's not an option if youlook back. I mean, I taught
primary for several years. If youlook back to primary age, you know,
starting at age three, I loveto see the temple. I'm going

(11:00):
there someday. Families are forever hatethat song. These are the songs that
you're taught from the time you're threeyears old, so you know there is
no other option. If you're aboy, you will serve a mission.
You will get the priest, you'llpass the sacrament, you will go to
you know, like there's no choice. You'll go to seminary, you'll get
married in the temple, and you'llhave your babies, and you'll die and

(11:24):
go to heaven like that's that's it, and keep having babies for eternity.
That sounds horrible, by the way, I know, I know well.
And something else I wanted to say. So for our age group growing up,
there wasn't the Internet. It's notlike you could do research and start
to think, I wonder if thisis a bunch of bullshit. There was
nothing. There was nothing that wouldmake you think for a second that it

(11:48):
wasn't true. It was just thisis true. Am I gonna be obedient
and make everyone happy and go toheaven? Or am I going to be
disobedient and burn in hell and havemy whole family sad and cry. There
was no this might not be true, right right, right, that's not
an option. No, I didn'tthink this might not be true till I
was in my forties. Oh exactly. I actually left the church before I

(12:11):
determined that it wasn't true. Soyou so you left the church because lesbian
right at the time, that right, because of the final straw for me
was the exclusion policy. I hadactually been excommunicated in two thousand and four
when I had an affair with awoman and ended my marriage and you know
all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so I was excommunicated and and then

(12:35):
I rejoined the church because my girlfriendat the time was also Mormon, and
she said, I cannot be withyou unless you remember the church. Wow,
because we weren't having sex anyway afterthe first six months. So I
was like, all right, SoI rejoined the church, went through all

(12:56):
the process to get my tune torecommend back, and is a card carrying
member for the next nine years.Wow. Wow. In this relationship that
was it was not a good relationship. It was one of those ones where
it was it was my first reallove and I thought, you know I'm
never going to find another woman likeher, so I need to stay with

(13:16):
her, even though we were bothmiserable, and it should have never lasted
as long as it did. Butthat's another story. Oh you've got lots.
Awesome, you've got lots. Ido, I've lived a lot.
Yeah. The requirement that the churchhad for you to get baptized again,
what were some of the things thatthey wanted from you? So the first

(13:37):
thing I was told is that ifI were to be rebaptized, there would
be an asterisk next to my nameon the records of the church. The
asterisk next to my name gave themthe knowledge that I could not work with
youth. The junior primary was fine, Shut the fuck up. Well,
junior primary was fine. Not seniorprimary, and not youth, the young
men, young woman because I guessif you're a lesbian, you're a pedophile.

(14:01):
Not really sure how that works,but well that's anything that's not straight
is pedophile, right, according tothe church back then, And there's still
a lot of people that I thinkbelieve that to this day. The Church
has come a long way. I'mnot getting props to the church when I
say that, I'm just you know, not at all. I'm just saying
it's not as rampant that everyone feelslike if you are gay, queer,

(14:26):
whatever, that your pedophile. Butthere still a lot of them, do
you know? I still think theapp rachelons believe that shit, all the
old dudes. Yeah, for sure. So how did that make you feel?
I'm sure you must have recognized like, oh, they don't trust me
with like young teenage girls. Howdid that make you feel? It made

(14:46):
me feel creepy. Yeah, likehonestly, especially since I had kids,
like right, you know, soit just made me feel gross, like
I wasn't on the same level asthe other people at your you know.
And then there's also the I hadto meet with the bishop every week,

(15:09):
and in these meetings it would beyou know, have you had any inappropriate
thoughts? Have you masturbated? Wow? Watched any pornography? You know?
Do you think about kissing other womenin relief society? No? You know,
like wait, wait, kiss otherwomen that are in release society?

(15:30):
Or while you're written relief society thinkingabout kissing other like kissing other women in
the ward? All right, rightright, their a friend. I'm going
to drag down another woman in ourward and you know, take her out
of her celestial marriage, like youmight have had that power, Austin.
I don't know. Maybe props toyou. Yeah, thanks, Yeah.

(15:50):
You know what sucks too is thatso many men have been accused of and
even convicted of being pedophiles, ofhaving sexual contact with youth, and they
are still allowed some of them arestill allowed to work in the youth program.
Oh yeah, Like, what thefuck's up with the double standard?

(16:15):
You know, I have no clue. Yeah, there isn't an answer for
that, because it's it's bullshit forsure, for sure. Okay, so
you were able to come back tothe church and you did this for the
girl that you were now just goingto be friends with, right right,
right? So how that worked out? You know this sounds ridiculous, right

(16:40):
I do? I do? Andshe so she would make contact with me,
okay, yeah, like every sixmonths she would cut off contact with
me because she'd say she had revelationthat that's what needed happen Jesus. Then
when she missed me, suddenly therevelation was gone. I don't know.
She'd come back and we did thisback and forth for a long time and

(17:02):
then I said. One day tour. We were talking on the phone.
It was first thing in the morning, and I said, I can't do
this anymore. And I meant theback and forth, like the up,
down, in out, you knowthing. Yeah, she took it as
I can't do the relationship anymore.So she blocked me on everything. She
moved all of her stuff out,like done, that was it, and
y'all were living together. She wasliving with me part time, but she

(17:26):
didn't have her kids. She wouldbe at my house, and then when
she had her kids, she wouldbe at her house. So but you
were just roommates. Yeah, ofcourse. So when she moved out all
of her stuff and cut off allcontact, it was like a month later.
She was posting on Facebook about likeher new girlfriend and how she was

(17:48):
like totally with her and posting pictureswith her. And I had been blocked
from posting anything about our relationship anywhere. Wow. So I was like,
well, thanks, I guess andI was like, I screw you,
I'm done. And so she justcame all the way out, like you
know, I'm assuming she left thechurch. I don't know. I just
think I think I no longer rememberI'm not sure how that worked out.

(18:12):
I don't talk to her anymore,so, like we have zero contact at
this point. So yeah, itwas weird, but whatever. I know,
you look back on relationships and things, You're like, wow, that's
now that I'm saying it out loud, that's really weird. I know.
I know, I look back andI'm like, I was an idiot,
but okay, I learned. Itmakes a good story, I know.

(18:36):
Wow. So we broke up inSeptember of twenty fourteen, and then the
exclusion policy happened in I think itwas January of twenty fifteen. Yeah,
so for some of our listeners mightnot know what that is. Do you
mind explaining that? Yeah, Sothe exclusion policy was something that was actually
leaked. It wasn't supposed to benot general knowledge to the church members,

(18:59):
and some linked it on the internet, of course, and it came out
that they will put in the handbookthat children of gay parents could not be
baptized, they could not get blessed, they could not serve missions, they
could not advance in the priesthood,and all gay members would be considered apostates
if they were, you know,like it's went into all these basically,

(19:22):
you are less than if you aregay or if your parents are gay.
And so I'm like, my issuewas, you're punishing children because they do
believe it's punishment to not be ableto get baptized, blessed, whatever,
go on a mission. You know, you're punishing children for the sins of
their parents, right, sins andquotations. Right, Which isn't that what
they say in the second Article ofFaith where we don't do, yeah,

(19:45):
punish for own sins and not forAdam's transgressions. I wonder how many of
those I could still I could stillrattle off. Unfortunately I can still say
all of them. But we'll saythat for you know, for another time.
Yeah, okay. So so whenthat policy came out, I was
kind of leaving the church ish,I mean I was mentally had left,

(20:08):
I guess, and I was beinga little more vocal on social media about
some problems issues that I was having, and that policy came out and I
made some complaints about it, andsome ward members are kind of like,
well, what do you care?Right, what do you care? You
and Brent both left the church.Why do you care? And it's like,
okay, let's pretend Brent hadn't leftthe church, none of my kids

(20:33):
would be able to go through thesteps of Mormonism. Now people I think,
well, good, you don't wantthem to anyway, That's not the
point. Here's the point is thatthese kids, if they are believing,
they are going to be looked downupon by their peers because they're not getting
baptized, they're not getting the priesthood, they're not advancing in these ranks,
they're not doing all the cool shityou get to do as a boy when

(20:56):
you go higher and hire in theranks. Why because their mom is gay.
So that's basically, in a nutshell, it's it's it's I guess it
does punish the parent and that youare heartbroken for your child, but it
puts this divide between the parent andthe child because now it's your fault,
Austin, if your kid can't goon a mission or if you're you know,

(21:19):
if my could get it's my faultfor being gay, you know,
And that's that fucking sucks. Sothat was a big That was a big
deal. So that was your turningpoint, you would say, is that
was my turning point because my daughterhad put in her mission papers and this
policy came out. Fuck, andthey knew that I was a lesbian,

(21:41):
and they my girlfriend, my newgirlfriend had moved in with me or she
was just a roommate at the time. We weren't even dating, I think,
and she had moved in to theextra room in our house, right,
and they found out about her livingthere, that I was a lesbian.
That wasn't even practic to sing lesbianismat the time, you know,

(22:02):
right, And she was excluded frommissionary service, honorably excluded. That was
all they would tell her. Wow, And I was like, that's really
they didn't give They didn't give hera reason. M What did she say
about that? God, that's fuckingcrazy. She was upset, Yeah,
because she knew why, you know, she wasn't She's not stupid. She

(22:25):
knew why she was being excluded.Would she upset it? You or at
the church? At the church goodgood? Although she is still an active
member, sure, but just sayingshe could see the difference and that's good.
Yes, Yeah, she knew.She she and she has actually given
talks in church about this. Youknow, she has said, my parents
had no choice in how they feel. They have no choice, like they

(22:48):
were born this way, and ifyou look back at photos of them as
a child, you can tell theywere born this way. Like this is
not somebody they just woke up oneday and we're like, I'm going to
choose to do this. You know, like when you're shoving socks and your
pants to have a bulge, Austin, that's a clear sign, right right,
like something it's not right there?Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(23:08):
So that was the final straw thatfor me. I was like,
I can't do this to pretend likeI'm okay with these doctrines that I'm not
okay with. Yeah, you know. I was like one of the things
we're taught or that the Bible taughtwas God is the same today, you
know, yesterday and today and forever. Why does Mormon God change his mind

(23:30):
so much about things like you know, blacks can have the priest said,
oh nope, now they can youknow, polygamy right right, yeah,
no, wait, that's not workingfor us because we're getting kicked out of
our state. So God doesn't wantus to do that anymore, you know,
yeah yeah, And so I'm likeit's just to me, it was
so frustrating that people were suffering becauseold men decided that they don't like gay

(23:56):
people. It's the bottom line.It's nothing to do with God, right.
I was like, this, thisis not God. I don't see
God anywhere in this. That wasYeah, that was my final straw for
that one. Gotcha. So didyou have your name removed from the record?
You said you did that. Yeah. Yeah, So I sent to
I don't remember if I send aletter or an email one or the other

(24:18):
to salt Lake and I was like, hey, I'm done. I can't
do this, and please remove myname from the records. Do not contact
me. If you do, Iwill contact an attorney. And that was
it. I got an email ora letter in the mail, I guess
a few years later or a fewmonths later that said you're done. You
know your name has been removed.So how did your family take that?

(24:40):
I mean, since I'd already beenexcommunicated once. Here we go again.
Yeah, it wasn't like they wereoverly shocked. You beat them down already,
Austin, exactly. You know,my mom had a bigger problem when
I came out as trans, andmy dad was actually not shocked. None

(25:02):
of my siblings were shocked. Noneof my friends have been shocked that knew
me, but my mom really hada hard time with it. Yeah,
that's kind of a whole other level, you know, right, And it's
not a bad level. I'm justsaying like that, that's that could surely
be a bigger jump for a parentto yes have been and being the oldest
daughter, you know, Okay,Like, yeah, I mean you're the

(25:23):
only daughter, so you kind ofunderstand how that sure that goes. But
I was the oldest daughter that wassupposed to be setting any example for all
my younger siblings, and you know, yeah, I fucked that up.
So way to go, Austin.I know. So, how long after

(25:44):
you completely left the church did youstart, I guess having more the idea
of transitioning. Yeah, I actuallystarted testosterone in twenty seventeen. Okay,
However, I was married to mywife at the time was not okay with
the changes testosterone brought around. Shewas not okay with me being male.

(26:04):
You know, She's like, Iam a lesbian. I want to be
with a woman, you know,And I was like okay, So I
stopped testosterone, went back in thecloset. Yeah, and then we moved
to Texas, which was a wholenother shit show. And while we were
in Texas, I ended up beingin the mental health unit for a month.

(26:25):
I would be in there for liketen days. I came home for
like a day, and I'd goright back in again the first time going
in. What happened? What waswhat was the break that made you go
the first time going in? Whenyou went to Yeah, when you went
to Texas? Yeah, what wasthe So the well that was the last
time I went in the mental healthyou know, is when we lived in
Texas. Got you Okay? Yeah, My first time going to the mental
health you know was when my sonwas two. So this was when I

(26:48):
was twenty five, okay, Andwhile I was in the mental health unit
that time. Actually, that's aninteresting story. While I was in the
mental health unit, they had usstraw a self portrait, and I I
drew this self portrait. And myself portrait was a face divided down the
middle, and on one half therewas a girl with long hair and a
frown and peers coming down her rise. And then on the other half there

(27:11):
was a boy with a football jerseyand a huge smile and like really short
hair. Wow. And they askedme, like what does this picture represent?
And I said, well, thisis the person I see inside,
and I pointed to the boy's sideand I was like, but I know
that this is what everyone else sees. And they were like, have you

(27:34):
ever explored that with a therapist?And I was like, well yeah,
but she told me I didn't knowwhat I was talking about. So there
you go. And you were stillmarried and all that back then, right,
like, yeah, wow, didyour husband know about the self portrait?
Was he aware of all of this? Yeah? Yeah, he had
always wondered, you know, likewhen I came out as lesbian him,

(27:56):
he was like, yeah, Iknow, and so nothing shocked him.
He was not at all surprised.I got always dressed masculine. I'd always
want to, you know, keptmy hair short. It was not like
this was a huge shocker, Ohmy god. You know, but the
last time I was in the mentalhealth unit that was in Texas, and
I would go in and i'd comeout. As soon as I get home,

(28:18):
I'd just feel this. I don'teven know how to explain it.
It's like a dark presence. Iguess that would just settle over me,
my whole body, and I feltso heavy, and so sad, and
I was like, there's no wayout of this except death. That was
the point I was at, like, I can't escape this. And in

(28:44):
the Church you're taught that any earthlyailments you have will be fixed when you
die. You will be perfected inthe next life, in the Church's version
of perfection of course, right.And one of my biggest issues to this
day with that teaching is that Mormonyouth are killing themselves if they are LGBTQ

(29:08):
because they believe that's the only waythey're going to be accepted and loved and
healed. That's again in quotation marks, you know, is to just die
and make it to the other side. Yeah, that's I. I hate
that for everyone. I hate that, especially for the for the youth because

(29:32):
they don't have that life experience yet. Of you know, some do now
as time goes on, but typicallythe youth, they don't have friends who
are trans. There's not like transpeople they see on TV. And even
if they do, if they havebeen so brainwashed and thinking that's wrong and

(29:52):
if you know it'll be, you'llbe made clean after you die. Like,
what a fucked up thing to tolive your life just waiting to die
because you can't act on how you'refeeling, You're going to be lonely.
You feel this darkness all over youknow. I have gone through a lot
of depressive episodes, and I woulddescribe it similarly like black tar, heavy,

(30:18):
black tar all over you. Thatit's heavy and it seeps into every
pore and you just can't pull itoff. So to live your life like
that and know this is how Ihave to feel until I die, no
wonder, no wonder. The suiciderate is higher than it freaking I mean,
way higher than it should be,but for these poor kids because there's

(30:41):
not there's no out unless you're dead, and that's horrible. Yes, it
makes me furious. Yeah, Sowere you considering taking your life? Yeah?
Yeah. And my wife and Imoved back to Oregon. We've got

(31:02):
a divorce because our marriage was notworking. You know, we weren't physically
intimate. She had no attraction tome at all. I was so miserable
that I just snapped all the time, Like I was always snappy and grumpy,
and like I just couldn't be happy. You stopped taking testosterone for her,
right, Yes, you seem tohave this pattern of trying to do

(31:25):
what is right for you and thenbeing like, oh fuck, I'm hurting
someone, I'm disappointing someone, reversereverse reverse, is that it's that people
pleasing mode that you you know,yep, yep, oh god, yeah.
So how did that end up?Then? Uh, well, we're

(31:45):
we're good friends now. Oh that'sgood. Yeah, but it blew up
at the time. We didn't talkprobably a good year and a half after
we broke up, just because there'sa lot of hurt there, you know.
Of course, that's a lot ofthings that were not nice. And
I don't hurt people say things.That's what I've figured out through the years.
Yes, yes you don't mean it, but it's how you feel at

(32:08):
the time and still hurts to hearit, exactly exactly. So after her,
I dated another person and I wasfully out of chance to them,
but they made it clear they werenot okay with bottom surgery, And at
first I was okay with not havingbottom surgery. I didn't think I would
want it. I hadn't had topsurgery yet, and all I saw when

(32:30):
I looked in the mirror was myboobs, So I was like, I
don't even think about what's blow thewaist like, you know, well,
once those were gone, let's behonest, she had big boobs, Austin,
I did, very Yes, evenwith the binder, you couldn't hide
them, so okay, yeah,yeah, So once they were gone,
I was like, well, let'snot jump over that. I don't remember,

(32:52):
and our listeners remember, because anyonehere who doesn't know Austin Austin,
he has always been very active inthe latter day let be in podcast discussion
group, very honest with what's goingon, talking about things, and people
are just all up in your businessin a good way, like they cheer
for you. When you were firsttalking about having top surgery, I remember

(33:14):
you being excited for it, butthen wavering, going back and forth and
feeling like, oh shit, I'mabout to disappoint it everyone. Maybe I
shouldn't do this, Like, let'stalk about that for a minute, because
I remember that you had sent mesome polos. I remember, and there
was just some. You were depressed, you weren't sure, you were kind
of backsliding a bit, Go ahead, talk about it. That was just
the boobs. Yeah, I knewmy family would be disappointed. Sure,

(33:40):
you know, because there's no goingback after you have parts of your body
removed, so you know, andit kind of was the final Yes,
this is really who I am.And I knew that that would be an
issue. So as much as Ihated them, and had hated them my
entire life. Your boobs, notyour family, your boobs yet right,

(34:01):
right, I knew that it wouldstill disappoint people, yeah, and change
how they saw me. And Iwas scared about how my family would react
when you know, when I cameout as a lesbian, I was disowned
for five months. Oh I'm sosorry, Like I said, they wouldn't
come to my wedding. And thenwhen I came out as trans, my

(34:24):
mom sent me a message on Facebookthat said I became gay to spite my
ex husband, and then that didn'tgive me enough attention. So now I
was being trans? Are you serious? Yeah? Yeah, I actually posted
screenshots of it in the group.You must really hate that ex husband.

(34:46):
I do. I'm going to betrans. I'm gonna have massive surgery because
I hate him so much, right, And I was like, I hadn't
even talked to him in years byat this point, so I was like,
I really think she's got nothing todo with it, you know,
like as soon as my kids wereeighteen that that ended. Like I had

(35:07):
no reason to talk to him anymore. Isn't it interesting that a parent,
I you know, not just aparent, but people in general, would
rather believe that you are just asuper spiteful person and you're doing all this
shit out of being mean than tobelieve that this is actually who you are,
right, Like, because they can'tgrasp that either God made a mistake,

(35:31):
or that being gay is a realthing, or that being trans is
real, Like is that goes againsttheir entire religious belief, you know,
right, So it's got to beit's got to be something else. It's
got to be that you're just realpissed off, Austin, You're pissed,
that's really pissed off. Yeah,let's go on the knife because I'm that
mad. Yeah, yep. Shestarted to notice that I was different when

(35:54):
I started testosterone, because I becamehappy for the first time in a long
time. Tell me that why,a genuine smile, because I felt like
I was finally doing something to alignmyself. Ah yeah, yeah, and
I wasn't denying who I was anymore, right, Oh, I love it.

(36:15):
My voice started to drop. Ohmy god, that was such euphoria
when I could sing along with likethe male singers and actually get the write
notes. Yeah, and my voicestarted getting deeper. I remember my dad
called. I was like two monthson testoster and my dad called and he
was like, do you have acold? And I said no, and
he's like, well, your voicesounds really raspy. And I was like,

(36:37):
that's the hormones. Nice, Soyeah, oh I love that.
And then you know, I startedgetting facial hair and I was like,
yes, this is so so.I never had any qualms about the changes
that were happening to my body.I was totally stoked about all of them.
Just super happy. And I didn'tneed after I had top surgery,

(37:00):
I didn't need my anxiety meds anymore. I didn't need my antidepressants anymore.
I've had no suicidal ideation at all. That is phenomenal. Yeah, because
I finally see someone I recognize whenI look in the mirror, you know,
Like that was the hardest thing forme. Like I remember when I

(37:20):
was a teenager, I would sitand stare at myself in the mirror for
hours, just staring at my facein the mirror. And I was trying
to find something I recognized because Idid not recognize the person I was looking
at. So I would just lookat my eyes. That was the only
thing. I thought, that's me. Okay, those are my eyes,
so that's me. But if Ilooked at the rest of my body,

(37:43):
I was like, that's not me. That's got to be such a mind
fuck. I can't I don't thinkanyone who was not trans probably, i'll
say probably can't really understand how thatfeels. I know, for me,
as a kid, I wanted tobe a boy just because boys got to
do the cool stuff and you know, all that kind of thing. But

(38:05):
it wasn't like I felt like Iwas a boy and couldn't be Like that's
a whole different ballgame. Wow.I uh, that just breaks my heart.
Just to imagine that you, oranyone just sitting there staring at the
mirror. I wanted to really quicklysay, so, for you, after
having your top surgery and getting onhormones, you didn't need to have your

(38:29):
medications anymore. That worked for you. There might be people who still need,
you know, medications after something likethat. I'm not saying this is
how it was for everyone. Foryou though, that was a life changer,
right right. Yeah. For me, that was the cause of my
depression and anxiety was when you whenyou're feel like you're living a double life.

(38:51):
It's really hard to be happy andpresent in any life, you know,
because like you're constantly feeling you're hidingsomething. Yeah, once I didn't
have to hide anymore, it's like, oh okay, and it's kind of
like now my family sees I postselfies, you know, I don't mind
having my picture taken with my grandkidsor my kids or you know. Yeah,

(39:12):
you're all over social media. It'sawesome. Yeah. Yeah. And
I hated having my picture taken beforetransition. Hated it. Like I wouldn't
post any pictures of me unless itwas with my kids, and that was
because it was with my kids.Wow, this is just amazing. And
I'm loving this too, by theway, because again I met you before
any of this was happening, andI've been able to watch it and it's

(39:34):
just so badass to see where youare now. I want to know when
your boob were first removed, whatdid that feel like when you woke up,
sat up, whatever, The swelling'sdown and there are no boobs.
Tell me. When I went infor my postop appointment where they removed the
binder, I remember just looking atmy chest like I got and I opened

(40:00):
the winder again. I just lookedin the mirror. I was like,
wow, like that is what That'swhat that's supposed to look like. Okay,
I'm good. I was so happy. You know, I saw these
videos of guys like crying when whenthey're renders drew. I never did that.
Like it wasn't like a you know, but it was definitely a oh

(40:22):
yeah, oh this is this isit? Oh okay, yeah, I
look like I'm supposed to look now. Yay. I love it so obviously.
Then no regret, No what didI do? Not just maybe like
why didn't I do this sooner?Kind of thing? Well even yeah,
yeah yeah wow. And to seeyou post surgery and now you're like running

(40:45):
races, getting in shape and youjust start glowing and you're doing it seems
to me like you're doing the thingsthat you should have been doing for yourself
for a long time, things thatmake you happy. Yeah. Yeah,
Well, I mean, you know, I started caring about losing weight.
You know, I was up overtwo hundred pounds. I'm only five foot
tall, you know, are nottall? Yeah, and now I'm you

(41:07):
know, one forty five, SoI'm at a good wait with my muscle
mass, my doctors happy. Yeah, you know my legs are like solid
muscle because I ride a bike andyou know I was doing thirty mile rides.
I've seen the leg selfies. You'retrying. You're trying to compete with
my leg selfies. Tee. Whereyou're at? Okay, I see where
you're at. I'm getting my assback to the gym next week. Well,

(41:29):
unfortunately I'm going to be away fromthe gym for like twelve weeks.
But is true you've got that nextsurgery coming up. Yeah, So Austin,
we are actually like forty five minutesin and we haven't even started talking
about your nether regions yet, whichis the surgery that's coming up. So

(41:50):
I'm like, should we divide thislike we we? We did your kind
of intro to who you are,your life, talked about the boobs.
Now you know, why don't weWhy don't we wrap this up for today
and let's let's record another time forthe nether regions. I think that would
be freaking awesome. Don't get mebecause I still have I still have so
many questions and I haven't even gottento like the the uh Patreon subscriber questions.

(42:14):
We have people that are like,ask Austin, this you people,
I mean people literally. When Iposted on social media that I was going
to interview you, I'm sure you'veseen all the messages, people are like
so pumped about that, and Ijust love to see people just rallying around.
So it made me really happy.Oh good. People love you,

(42:35):
Austin. I love you. Iactually met you in real life one time,
right and that was amazing. AndI'm hoping to see you again this
summer because I will likely be headingout toward the West coast for some shit.
So I don't know. I'm stilllearning how to wrap up these episodes
patrons, I don't have patrin namesright now. We're we are still getting
there, We're still I. Iguess I need to remember to say I

(42:59):
am still getting there and this,that and the other. So I guess
that's it. Steer clear of cultsbecause they are no joke, no joke
at all. Oh shit, thanksfor leaving in, Dan, Thank you
Dan and extension audio. All thisshit's coming back to me. Thanks Dan,
and thank you to all of thesubscribers on Patreon and supercast. By

(43:20):
the way, got a new websitecoming up really really soon where we can
where you can get all information aboutthe podcast, listen to episode and be
supporters and YadA, YadA YadA.That was a rambly ass ending. So
on the next episode we will betalking about Austin gets a dick? Can

(43:43):
we say that? I'm always sayingthat because you've said it, Austin.
Okay, I'm not saying it allthe time. All right on, all
right, y'all. We'll talk toyou later.