June 25, 2024 • 22 mins
This is Part 2 in our podcast series exploring homelessness in Australia and the legal issues people experience when they are homeless or at risk of homelessness. During this series we will be speaking to people from different services providing support and legal advice to those experiencing homelessness.
In this 2nd episode, Bridget from the Community Legal Education Branch speaks to Damian Bozanic from North Coast Community Housing about the Together Homes programme that supports people who are rough sleeping transition into housing.
There is useful information in this episode about how community workers working with rough sleepers can support these clients.
Use the links below to find out more information about what we talked about in this episode.
Together Home is a key initiative to support the Premier’s Priority to halve street homelessness by 2025.
https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/housing/help/ways/are-you-homeless/together-home
Together Home program guidelines: https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/download?file=812695
Fact sheet for service providers: https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/download?file=812803
Fact sheet for participants: https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/download?file=812804
Together Home FAQs https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/download?file=812805
North Coast Community Housing
Ph. 02 66275300
Transcript: https://otter.ai/u/S4kDf5fNKnub-_CRb-5303CcdQE?
Editing by Yasmine Lewis from Legal Aid NSW
Please send questions, comments and feedback to cle@legalaid.nsw.gov.au
Disclaimer: This podcast is a general guide to the law. You should not rely on it as legal advice. We recommend that you talk to a lawyer about any particular situation. The information is correct at the time of publishing but it may change. For more information, start with our team at LawAccess NSW via webchat at www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au or on 1300 888 529.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bridget Barker (00:04):
This is Law for Community Workers on the Go; A
place to call home. This is anew series exploring
homelessness in Australia andthe legal help available to
those at risk of or experiencinghomelessness. I want to begin by
acknowledging that thisrecording was made on Aboriginal
land and to acknowledge and payrespect to Aboriginal elders
(00:27):
past and present, and toAboriginal or Torres Strait
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
In this second episode, I speakwith Damian Bozanic, the
Together Home Programme Lead forNorth Coast Community Housing.
Together homes is a programmethat works with people who are
(00:48):
rough sleeping in a given areaand spends time trying to house
people in long term stablehousing.
I'd like to welcome Damian tothe podcast today. Damian, would
you tell us about your role atNorth Coast Community Housing
and the work that you do?
Damian Bozanic (01:08):
Thanks, Bridget. So my name is Damian Bozanic. I
am the Together Home Programmelead for North Coast Community
Housing and Together Homes is aprogramme that works with people
who are rough sleeping in agiven area and is trying or
attempting to house people inlong term stable housing.
Bridget Barker (01:30):
What does the programme involve?
Damian Bozanic (01:32):
So the region we cover would be from Grafton to
Tweed Heads and everything inbetween. The special
homelessness services in thoseareas will make referrals to our
programme. We will meet withthose workers to make sure those
referrals are appropriate. Thecriteria for our programme is
our people have to be sleepingrough. They have to be on the
(01:54):
priority housing list for thehousing department. And if
they're referred to ourprogramme, they're successful,
we have five staff and we willmeet with those people and work
with them for two years to findstable, safe housing for them
and work with them in a casemanagement capacity to get every
(02:16):
service we can to work aroundthose people. So their tenancies
are sustainable.
Bridget Barker (02:20):
Damian were both located in the Northern Rivers
region, and we've had seriousflooding, which has led to an
increase in homelessness in thearea. Does North Coast have
existing accommodation that theycan offer to these people on the
programme?
Damian Bozanic (02:39):
Not initially. A lot of our housing was damaged
in the floods so that's madethings very difficult. However,
the idea with this programme, itwas a Premier's Initiative that
was set up in 2000 as a responseto COVID to assist people who
are sleeping rough to deal withthe pandemic. The initial way
the programme was set up wasthat if people are referred to
(03:01):
our programme, we would havebrokerage funding to pay for
people in temporaryaccommodation and then try to
secure rental accommodation,which means we would subsidise a
head lease. So in our region,that's hard because rental
accommodation is very scarce.
Bridget Barker (03:23):
Yes.
Damian Bozanic (03:23):
And that means a lot of our clients were having
to put up in motels and caravanparks outside of the flood
damaged areas. So not easy, notan easy job for the case workers
to try and find thataccommodation. However we do
find rental accommodation, andwe do secure head leasing. And
(03:45):
after two years of theprogramme, so it's been running
since 2020. The first round ofreferrals had 30 people referred
to us and we've had 20 more intwo different rounds of
referrals after that. So thefirst 30 people we've probably
managed to house most people andat least 50% we've transferred
(04:09):
across to North Coast rentalsubsidy, so they've gone off the
together home rental subsidyonto North Coast. So they're in
longer term stable housing nowthen, hopefully early next year,
we can take a new round ofreferrals from the special
homelessness services.
Bridget Barker (04:24):
Have you observed any particular causes
of homelessness in the clientsthat your programme works with?
Damian Bozanic (04:32):
So, it's a really mixed collection of
people we work with for thegeneral public. When you say
homeless, most people will thinkof people living rough on the
street. However, a lot of peoplewe work with would like to say
they're houseless. So they mightjust be staying with friends,
(04:52):
relatives or even sleeping intheir car. So I have a
percentage of people working onthe programme that have been
sleeping rough for a long time.There are other people who only
probably experiencedhomelessness since COVID for
various reasons. Other people ifthey were asked to vacate the
(05:12):
property for whatever reason,they weren't able to secure
another property because rentswere too expensive, they
couldn't find one, they weren'tapproved. Therefore, they were
sort of stuck staying in motelsor living in their car or
between friends. So there are alot of reasons and for some
people not being able tomaintain tenancy that could come
back to long standing mentalhealth histories and substance
(05:36):
abuse histories.
Bridget Barker (05:38):
I wanted to ask whether you're aware of any
legal issues, the homelessclients that you work with
experience?
Damian Bozanic (05:48):
Yeah, look, the people we work with have a
number of legal issues. Some ofthem are common issues amongst
people who have been sleepingrough or experienced
homelessness. Some of thosewould be drug possession
charges, "break and enter" and"affray". They would be fairly
regular ones. Other ones wouldbe "failure to move on". So some
(06:12):
of our guys that are mentallyunwell or under the influence
will get caught up with thepolice and then because of their
mental state, they might argue,and then they get "failure to
move on". Others are trafficfines and loss of licence or an
unroadworthy vehicle. And forthose guys, the car is their
only means of a roof over theirhead. Once that car is made
(06:34):
unroadworthy or they lose theirlicence, they can't actually get
around, so the car's stuck inone spot. So, most of them will
continue to keep driving aroundand then they'll get driving
unlicensed, and it justcompounds from there.
Other ones things like "riding abike without a helmet" and a lot
of COVID fines for failure towear a mask. I had a lot of that
(06:58):
when COVID was about and a lotof the guys I ran into because
they're homeless, and theydidn't really keep abreast of
the news, they didn't understandwhat the laws were. For the guys
that are housed, or finally doget housed, there's lots of
neighbourhood disputes, whichend up usually with the police
being called and that snowballsfrom there, because they're
(07:18):
known to the police. And you geta number of evictions that
probably don't follow the properlegal procedures and they ended
up, they don't end up in NCAT,our guys will just they just
take the notice and leavebecause they don't know what
their legal rights are and theysort of just vacate the
property. And when they vacatethe property, they'll just walk
away and leave all theirpossessions behind.
Bridget Barker (07:40):
So Damian would you connect most of those legal
issues with either the fact thatthe clients are homeless, or
also with the underlying causesthat may have led to them being
Yeah, I imagine their past experiences and
homeless?
Damian Bozanic (07:56):
It'd be probably some of the underlying issues
that led to their homelessness,like mental health or drug use,
because a lot of those guysbecause they've got prior
convictions or they're wellknown to the police, they will
tend to just let go of any oftheir rights. Because they
trauma that they've also beenthrough means that they they
there's a bit of learnedhelplessness there. Some of the
positions you've got in LegalAid specifically assisting
(08:18):
homeless people have been reallygreat, because they've been
great advocates. And that'shelped a lot of those guys,
because a lot of them don't turnup to court too, so they might
get a court notice and theywon't appear in court, and
they'll get "failure to attend"and then they'll get a warrant
for their arrest.
(08:43):
probably don't have a greattrust of people in official
positions or, you know, withcourts or lawyers.
That's exactly right.
Bridget Barker (08:51):
Is domestic and family violence, a factor
causing homelessness with any ofthe clients you work with?
Damian Bozanic (08:58):
Yes, I would say a lot of the female clients will
have some sort of history offamily violence. Some of the
women have escaped domesticviolence and it's been really
hard for them to secureaccommodation, even in domestic
violence services, becausethey're sort of few and far
(09:19):
between and they're out of thearea. So, when there's no
vacancies, you've got to refer,especially in this area, over
the border, or you've got to gosouth of Coffs Harbour so you're
taking people away from family.
Bridget Barker (09:31):
From any supports that they might have.
Damian Bozanic (09:34):
Yeah external supports. And again, a number of
the people we work with areindigenous, a fair proportion.
So, if you're referring away,you're referring them off
country as well, which causesother issues.
Bridget Barker (09:47):
Yeah, that would be very disruptive for
indigenous clients.
Do you have any tips forcommunity workers working with
the cohort of clients who arereferred to your service?
Damian Bozanic (10:00):
A lot of the guys we work with, (when I say
guys, I mean males and females),they're really transient, they
move around a fair bit. Becauseof their transient nature. They
have to retell their story timeand time again, they don't get
to have a regular GP or aregular network, because they're
(10:21):
moving around. So if you comeinto contact with someone, it's
really good to try andbacktrack, and with their
consent, of course, trying tomeet with as many people as
possible that have worked withthat person in the past, so you
get a bit more of a holisticapproach to working with that
person.
Bridget Barker (10:39):
That sounds like a great tip. Damian. Have you
observed any systemic problemsthat contribute to homelessness
in your clients?
Damian Bozanic (10:51):
I would say, given we're a regional area,
there are some people who havebeen homeless for a long time.
They become well known to realestates, and services. So
because of their behaviour, whenthey present it, if they're
mentally not well, at the time,they can be stigmatised. So they
(11:15):
sort of get excluded fromservices at times. That's why I
think the networking of all thecommunity services is really
necessary so people don't haveto keep telling their story and
they get enough advocacy fromcommunity workers. I think a lot
of our people, we work with arewell known to the legal system,
(11:38):
and the police, and they're wellknown to the mental health
system in health. So, there'sfor one of a better word a merry
go round that happens wherepeople were released from the
hospital, they've got nowhere tobe, they fall back into the same
lifestyle, and then the policemight pick them up for whatever
reason, and they're chargedagain, and they're back before
(11:59):
the court. And that sort ofseems to go round and round with
a lot of our guys.
I know a lot of our guys duringCOVID got issued breaches due to
not wearing masks, were being inbeing in public places, and they
really didn't have anywhere tobe, and they didn't understand
the protocols around COVID. So Ithink they were unfairly treated
(12:23):
by those laws. So there are alot of, I think, systemic
failures.
Years ago, there used to be asupported accommodation
services, a lot of them wereclosed down for good reason. But
I think for some people, theywere necessary. And there's a
small percentage of people thatwe work with, who the two to
(12:45):
four years this programme runs,will not be enough assistance to
get those people able to sustaina tenancy. So they do need a
supported accommodation service,a service that's staffed, at
least during the day, if not 24hours, so they can maintain the
(13:07):
right connections withcommunity, they can have the
assistance to shop, to managetheir budgets, to get the health
needs they need, just so theydon't sort of fall between the
cracks.
There's a number of people wework with, who would fit an NDIS
criteria to get an NDIS plan,whether it be a psychosocial
(13:28):
plan, or a physical orintellectual disability plan.
But, trying to get the evidencefor those people and get them to
have consistent assessments toget that evidence to submit to
the NDIS is really hard. Youmight see them for a week and
then months might go by beforeyou see them again. And if you
(13:50):
could get them on an NDIS plan,they would be able to access
support workers who could assistthem, but trying to get them on
that plan initially is not easy.You've got a huge hill to climb
with some people to get themacross the line with the NDIS.
And then of course, if theydon't have a stable place to
(14:11):
live, the support workers aren'tgoing to come and meet with
them. So you can get the planand get the money but then if
you haven't got a place to beservices aren't going to meet
with you. So there's a whole lotof boxes to tick to satisfy NDIS
plans.
Bridget Barker (14:26):
So Damian, would you have a good news story you
could share about a client thatyour service has helped?
Damian Bozanic (14:34):
I could do a collection of stories. Some
people were impacted by COVID.So they let their lease go, they
jumped in their car and decidedto travel around Australia.
However, when the COVID laws hitand they had to return back to
their state they weren't able tosecure accommodation, so they
were living in their car. Forsome of those people we've
managed to secure longer termrentals and those guys just
(14:58):
needed a bit of a hand for, saysix months, and then now we're
back on their feet and they'reaway.
For the people who have had longhistories of homelessness, just
being present and being aroundhave allowed those people to
consolidate their health needs.And once their health needs and
their mental health are at amanageable place, they've been
(15:18):
able to become more stable andsustain a tenancy. So the
programme in that way has helpedpeople over the two year period.
We have had people that haveexited the programme because
they've gone into like long termcapital, housing department
houses. So they've got a stableplace as long as they are able
(15:40):
to pay their rent and not getinto too much strife with
neighbours and we've been ableto mediate with some of the
services and private rentersaround neighbours. So our
advocacy there has helped peopleto stay in long term housing.
Part of our programme works withhomelessness New South Wales
(16:01):
around accessing high needspackages. So some of the people
who have greater needs, we'vebeen able to access extra money
for a high needs package whichcan pay for support workers,
which can pay for assessments tobe done, occupational therapy,
neuro-psyche assessments. So youcan gather evidence to submit to
(16:24):
the NDIS. Some of those guys,two of them have been able to
establish themselves in smallbusiness, which has been great,
or return to education andpursue a degree that they were
trying to finish years agobefore either their mental
health became too serious, orthey were made homeless. So
there have been some successesand some great stories.
Bridget Barker (16:47):
And would you say that the casework model of
support is something that helpspeople succeed on the programme?
Damian Bozanic (16:55):
Oh, yeah, without doubt. In order to get
someone into a house, we sort ofwill do anything, that person
needs to do pretty much andconnect and reconnect with any
sort of service, and do thatwrap around case management
support. We can't do it alone,we have to connect with as many
services as we can, to work witha lot of the people on our
(17:16):
programme. For some of thosepeople will need a lot of
support and the two years isnowhere near enough. For some of
the people, I think some of theresearch I've read would take
about seven years to reestablishsomeone back into the community
who's been sleeping rough for along time. So the two to four
years, we're only just startingto get there. But that
(17:36):
wraparound case managementsupport has been invaluable,
because the people we work withwill call us every day, some of
them about small issues. Issuesthat you and I would be able to
deal with straightaway that theyfind it really complex and
difficult. So we're there as anadvocate, to help them as best
(17:59):
as possible but the whole ideais for us to slowly pull back
and allow that person to beindependent. And that's on a
continuum with everyone. It's abit different with every person
we work with.
Bridget Barker (18:11):
Damian, if you could ask the government for
something to alleviatehomelessness, what would it be?
Damian Bozanic (18:18):
I'd ask the government to think outside the
square around homelessness, Ithink the way we approach it is
pretty stock standard and Ithink we've got to look at
different ways to work withpeople who are homeless. I
think, looking at different waysof housing people and funding
that, I think needs to happen. Iknow that I've met with some of
the network in interagencygroups around the region and
(18:43):
some of those groups havecouncils involved. I know the
local councils in differentareas are trying to be very
proactive. But I think if you'vegot big government buildings
that are not being used, you cansort of rethink those spaces and
how you can manage that andhouse people. But I think to
have a lot of support that goesalong with that housing is a
(19:07):
must and to have that funded.It's not okay to just grab
people and stick them in a houseand assume they're going to
manage. I think if they've beenout of the housing market for a
long time and they've beendisconnected from community for
a long time, I think they need alot of hand to reconnect and
services need to be funded to beable to do that work.
(19:29):
Damian have your clients ingeneral experienced trauma in
their lives, that is acomplicating factor for them?
I think nearly every clientwe're working with has some sort
of trauma history and thatmanifests in different ways.
Some you can quite clearly see,due to the way they communicate,
(19:51):
the way they react to certainthings that their trauma history
is quite acute. Other people notas acute but yeah I'd say every
client has some sort of dramaticpart of their history that
impacts upon them, trying toengage with people and maintain
relationships.
Bridget Barker (20:10):
What about the mix of clients that you deal
with?
Damian Bozanic (20:13):
We've got a pretty good mix. I would still
say that males tend to be higherin our referrals than females,
but we've got a fairly evensplit. Age range, our
programme's 18 to 64, however,most would fall between 35 and
60. That'd be in the upper theolder bracket, not too many
(20:35):
young people. And I think if youlook at the proportion, I'd say
the percentage of indigenouspeople are over representing our
clients.
Bridget Barker (20:45):
That's a national tragedy, isn't it?
Damian Bozanic (20:47):
Yeah, it is. And I think the way we look at
working with the indigenous sortof group, we sort of need to
look outside the square there aswell. I think we approach it in
a way that sometimes doesn'twork for those clients. And it's
hard to connect with the widercommunity at times, too, for
various reasons. But I thinkwe've got to try harder in that
(21:10):
space.
Bridget Barker (21:11):
Thank you. I really appreciate your time. I'm
very grateful that you found thetime to record with me today.
Damian Bozanic (21:17):
That's okay. My pleasure. It's great that people
are talking about homelessnessand seeing it outside of the
sort of older stereotypical wayof looking at homelessness. I
think even for our staff who'vebeen working in the field for a
long time, we're constantlysurprised by some of the
referrals we see and the peoplewe would come in contact with.
(21:39):
And that services, I still don'tthink we network fantastically.
We can still do it better and wecan provide a better wraparound
service for some of the peoplewe work with.
Bridget Barker (21:53):
That's all for this second episode. Have a look
at the show notes for links touseful services. We look forward
to you joining us again for ournext episode, which should be
out soon.
This is Law for Community Workers on the Go; A
place to call home. This is anew series exploring
homelessness in Australia andthe legal help available to
those at risk of or experiencinghomelessness. I want to begin by
acknowledging that thisrecording was made on Aboriginal
land and to acknowledge and payrespect to Aboriginal elders
(00:27):
past and present, and toAboriginal or Torres Strait
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
In this second episode, I speakwith Damian Bozanic, the
Together Home Programme Lead forNorth Coast Community Housing.
Together homes is a programmethat works with people who are
(00:48):
rough sleeping in a given areaand spends time trying to house
people in long term stablehousing.
I'd like to welcome Damian tothe podcast today. Damian, would
you tell us about your role atNorth Coast Community Housing
and the work that you do?
Damian Bozanic (01:08):
Thanks, Bridget. So my name is Damian Bozanic. I
am the Together Home Programmelead for North Coast Community
Housing and Together Homes is aprogramme that works with people
who are rough sleeping in agiven area and is trying or
attempting to house people inlong term stable housing.
Bridget Barker (01:30):
What does the programme involve?
Damian Bozanic (01:32):
So the region we cover would be from Grafton to
Tweed Heads and everything inbetween. The special
homelessness services in thoseareas will make referrals to our
programme. We will meet withthose workers to make sure those
referrals are appropriate. Thecriteria for our programme is
our people have to be sleepingrough. They have to be on the
(01:54):
priority housing list for thehousing department. And if
they're referred to ourprogramme, they're successful,
we have five staff and we willmeet with those people and work
with them for two years to findstable, safe housing for them
and work with them in a casemanagement capacity to get every
(02:16):
service we can to work aroundthose people. So their tenancies
are sustainable.
Bridget Barker (02:20):
Damian were both located in the Northern Rivers
region, and we've had seriousflooding, which has led to an
increase in homelessness in thearea. Does North Coast have
existing accommodation that theycan offer to these people on the
programme?
Damian Bozanic (02:39):
Not initially. A lot of our housing was damaged
in the floods so that's madethings very difficult. However,
the idea with this programme, itwas a Premier's Initiative that
was set up in 2000 as a responseto COVID to assist people who
are sleeping rough to deal withthe pandemic. The initial way
the programme was set up wasthat if people are referred to
(03:01):
our programme, we would havebrokerage funding to pay for
people in temporaryaccommodation and then try to
secure rental accommodation,which means we would subsidise a
head lease. So in our region,that's hard because rental
accommodation is very scarce.
Bridget Barker (03:23):
Yes.
Damian Bozanic (03:23):
And that means a lot of our clients were having
to put up in motels and caravanparks outside of the flood
damaged areas. So not easy, notan easy job for the case workers
to try and find thataccommodation. However we do
find rental accommodation, andwe do secure head leasing. And
(03:45):
after two years of theprogramme, so it's been running
since 2020. The first round ofreferrals had 30 people referred
to us and we've had 20 more intwo different rounds of
referrals after that. So thefirst 30 people we've probably
managed to house most people andat least 50% we've transferred
(04:09):
across to North Coast rentalsubsidy, so they've gone off the
together home rental subsidyonto North Coast. So they're in
longer term stable housing nowthen, hopefully early next year,
we can take a new round ofreferrals from the special
homelessness services.
Bridget Barker (04:24):
Have you observed any particular causes
of homelessness in the clientsthat your programme works with?
Damian Bozanic (04:32):
So, it's a really mixed collection of
people we work with for thegeneral public. When you say
homeless, most people will thinkof people living rough on the
street. However, a lot of peoplewe work with would like to say
they're houseless. So they mightjust be staying with friends,
(04:52):
relatives or even sleeping intheir car. So I have a
percentage of people working onthe programme that have been
sleeping rough for a long time.There are other people who only
probably experiencedhomelessness since COVID for
various reasons. Other people ifthey were asked to vacate the
(05:12):
property for whatever reason,they weren't able to secure
another property because rentswere too expensive, they
couldn't find one, they weren'tapproved. Therefore, they were
sort of stuck staying in motelsor living in their car or
between friends. So there are alot of reasons and for some
people not being able tomaintain tenancy that could come
back to long standing mentalhealth histories and substance
(05:36):
abuse histories.
Bridget Barker (05:38):
I wanted to ask whether you're aware of any
legal issues, the homelessclients that you work with
experience?
Damian Bozanic (05:48):
Yeah, look, the people we work with have a
number of legal issues. Some ofthem are common issues amongst
people who have been sleepingrough or experienced
homelessness. Some of thosewould be drug possession
charges, "break and enter" and"affray". They would be fairly
regular ones. Other ones wouldbe "failure to move on". So some
(06:12):
of our guys that are mentallyunwell or under the influence
will get caught up with thepolice and then because of their
mental state, they might argue,and then they get "failure to
move on". Others are trafficfines and loss of licence or an
unroadworthy vehicle. And forthose guys, the car is their
only means of a roof over theirhead. Once that car is made
(06:34):
unroadworthy or they lose theirlicence, they can't actually get
around, so the car's stuck inone spot. So, most of them will
continue to keep driving aroundand then they'll get driving
unlicensed, and it justcompounds from there.
Other ones things like "riding abike without a helmet" and a lot
of COVID fines for failure towear a mask. I had a lot of that
(06:58):
when COVID was about and a lotof the guys I ran into because
they're homeless, and theydidn't really keep abreast of
the news, they didn't understandwhat the laws were. For the guys
that are housed, or finally doget housed, there's lots of
neighbourhood disputes, whichend up usually with the police
being called and that snowballsfrom there, because they're
(07:18):
known to the police. And you geta number of evictions that
probably don't follow the properlegal procedures and they ended
up, they don't end up in NCAT,our guys will just they just
take the notice and leavebecause they don't know what
their legal rights are and theysort of just vacate the
property. And when they vacatethe property, they'll just walk
away and leave all theirpossessions behind.
Bridget Barker (07:40):
So Damian would you connect most of those legal
issues with either the fact thatthe clients are homeless, or
also with the underlying causesthat may have led to them being
Yeah, I imagine their past experiences and
homeless?
Damian Bozanic (07:56):
It'd be probably some of the underlying issues
that led to their homelessness,like mental health or drug use,
because a lot of those guysbecause they've got prior
convictions or they're wellknown to the police, they will
tend to just let go of any oftheir rights. Because they
trauma that they've also beenthrough means that they they
there's a bit of learnedhelplessness there. Some of the
positions you've got in LegalAid specifically assisting
(08:18):
homeless people have been reallygreat, because they've been
great advocates. And that'shelped a lot of those guys,
because a lot of them don't turnup to court too, so they might
get a court notice and theywon't appear in court, and
they'll get "failure to attend"and then they'll get a warrant
for their arrest.
(08:43):
probably don't have a greattrust of people in official
positions or, you know, withcourts or lawyers.
That's exactly right.
Bridget Barker (08:51):
Is domestic and family violence, a factor
causing homelessness with any ofthe clients you work with?
Damian Bozanic (08:58):
Yes, I would say a lot of the female clients will
have some sort of history offamily violence. Some of the
women have escaped domesticviolence and it's been really
hard for them to secureaccommodation, even in domestic
violence services, becausethey're sort of few and far
(09:19):
between and they're out of thearea. So, when there's no
vacancies, you've got to refer,especially in this area, over
the border, or you've got to gosouth of Coffs Harbour so you're
taking people away from family.
Bridget Barker (09:31):
From any supports that they might have.
Damian Bozanic (09:34):
Yeah external supports. And again, a number of
the people we work with areindigenous, a fair proportion.
So, if you're referring away,you're referring them off
country as well, which causesother issues.
Bridget Barker (09:47):
Yeah, that would be very disruptive for
indigenous clients.
Do you have any tips forcommunity workers working with
the cohort of clients who arereferred to your service?
Damian Bozanic (10:00):
A lot of the guys we work with, (when I say
guys, I mean males and females),they're really transient, they
move around a fair bit. Becauseof their transient nature. They
have to retell their story timeand time again, they don't get
to have a regular GP or aregular network, because they're
(10:21):
moving around. So if you comeinto contact with someone, it's
really good to try andbacktrack, and with their
consent, of course, trying tomeet with as many people as
possible that have worked withthat person in the past, so you
get a bit more of a holisticapproach to working with that
person.
Bridget Barker (10:39):
That sounds like a great tip. Damian. Have you
observed any systemic problemsthat contribute to homelessness
in your clients?
Damian Bozanic (10:51):
I would say, given we're a regional area,
there are some people who havebeen homeless for a long time.
They become well known to realestates, and services. So
because of their behaviour, whenthey present it, if they're
mentally not well, at the time,they can be stigmatised. So they
(11:15):
sort of get excluded fromservices at times. That's why I
think the networking of all thecommunity services is really
necessary so people don't haveto keep telling their story and
they get enough advocacy fromcommunity workers. I think a lot
of our people, we work with arewell known to the legal system,
(11:38):
and the police, and they're wellknown to the mental health
system in health. So, there'sfor one of a better word a merry
go round that happens wherepeople were released from the
hospital, they've got nowhere tobe, they fall back into the same
lifestyle, and then the policemight pick them up for whatever
reason, and they're chargedagain, and they're back before
(11:59):
the court. And that sort ofseems to go round and round with
a lot of our guys.
I know a lot of our guys duringCOVID got issued breaches due to
not wearing masks, were being inbeing in public places, and they
really didn't have anywhere tobe, and they didn't understand
the protocols around COVID. So Ithink they were unfairly treated
(12:23):
by those laws. So there are alot of, I think, systemic
failures.
Years ago, there used to be asupported accommodation
services, a lot of them wereclosed down for good reason. But
I think for some people, theywere necessary. And there's a
small percentage of people thatwe work with, who the two to
(12:45):
four years this programme runs,will not be enough assistance to
get those people able to sustaina tenancy. So they do need a
supported accommodation service,a service that's staffed, at
least during the day, if not 24hours, so they can maintain the
(13:07):
right connections withcommunity, they can have the
assistance to shop, to managetheir budgets, to get the health
needs they need, just so theydon't sort of fall between the
cracks.
There's a number of people wework with, who would fit an NDIS
criteria to get an NDIS plan,whether it be a psychosocial
(13:28):
plan, or a physical orintellectual disability plan.
But, trying to get the evidencefor those people and get them to
have consistent assessments toget that evidence to submit to
the NDIS is really hard. Youmight see them for a week and
then months might go by beforeyou see them again. And if you
(13:50):
could get them on an NDIS plan,they would be able to access
support workers who could assistthem, but trying to get them on
that plan initially is not easy.You've got a huge hill to climb
with some people to get themacross the line with the NDIS.
And then of course, if theydon't have a stable place to
(14:11):
live, the support workers aren'tgoing to come and meet with
them. So you can get the planand get the money but then if
you haven't got a place to beservices aren't going to meet
with you. So there's a whole lotof boxes to tick to satisfy NDIS
plans.
Bridget Barker (14:26):
So Damian, would you have a good news story you
could share about a client thatyour service has helped?
Damian Bozanic (14:34):
I could do a collection of stories. Some
people were impacted by COVID.So they let their lease go, they
jumped in their car and decidedto travel around Australia.
However, when the COVID laws hitand they had to return back to
their state they weren't able tosecure accommodation, so they
were living in their car. Forsome of those people we've
managed to secure longer termrentals and those guys just
(14:58):
needed a bit of a hand for, saysix months, and then now we're
back on their feet and they'reaway.
For the people who have had longhistories of homelessness, just
being present and being aroundhave allowed those people to
consolidate their health needs.And once their health needs and
their mental health are at amanageable place, they've been
(15:18):
able to become more stable andsustain a tenancy. So the
programme in that way has helpedpeople over the two year period.
We have had people that haveexited the programme because
they've gone into like long termcapital, housing department
houses. So they've got a stableplace as long as they are able
(15:40):
to pay their rent and not getinto too much strife with
neighbours and we've been ableto mediate with some of the
services and private rentersaround neighbours. So our
advocacy there has helped peopleto stay in long term housing.
Part of our programme works withhomelessness New South Wales
(16:01):
around accessing high needspackages. So some of the people
who have greater needs, we'vebeen able to access extra money
for a high needs package whichcan pay for support workers,
which can pay for assessments tobe done, occupational therapy,
neuro-psyche assessments. So youcan gather evidence to submit to
(16:24):
the NDIS. Some of those guys,two of them have been able to
establish themselves in smallbusiness, which has been great,
or return to education andpursue a degree that they were
trying to finish years agobefore either their mental
health became too serious, orthey were made homeless. So
there have been some successesand some great stories.
Bridget Barker (16:47):
And would you say that the casework model of
support is something that helpspeople succeed on the programme?
Damian Bozanic (16:55):
Oh, yeah, without doubt. In order to get
someone into a house, we sort ofwill do anything, that person
needs to do pretty much andconnect and reconnect with any
sort of service, and do thatwrap around case management
support. We can't do it alone,we have to connect with as many
services as we can, to work witha lot of the people on our
(17:16):
programme. For some of thosepeople will need a lot of
support and the two years isnowhere near enough. For some of
the people, I think some of theresearch I've read would take
about seven years to reestablishsomeone back into the community
who's been sleeping rough for along time. So the two to four
years, we're only just startingto get there. But that
(17:36):
wraparound case managementsupport has been invaluable,
because the people we work withwill call us every day, some of
them about small issues. Issuesthat you and I would be able to
deal with straightaway that theyfind it really complex and
difficult. So we're there as anadvocate, to help them as best
(17:59):
as possible but the whole ideais for us to slowly pull back
and allow that person to beindependent. And that's on a
continuum with everyone. It's abit different with every person
we work with.
Bridget Barker (18:11):
Damian, if you could ask the government for
something to alleviatehomelessness, what would it be?
Damian Bozanic (18:18):
I'd ask the government to think outside the
square around homelessness, Ithink the way we approach it is
pretty stock standard and Ithink we've got to look at
different ways to work withpeople who are homeless. I
think, looking at different waysof housing people and funding
that, I think needs to happen. Iknow that I've met with some of
the network in interagencygroups around the region and
(18:43):
some of those groups havecouncils involved. I know the
local councils in differentareas are trying to be very
proactive. But I think if you'vegot big government buildings
that are not being used, you cansort of rethink those spaces and
how you can manage that andhouse people. But I think to
have a lot of support that goesalong with that housing is a
(19:07):
must and to have that funded.It's not okay to just grab
people and stick them in a houseand assume they're going to
manage. I think if they've beenout of the housing market for a
long time and they've beendisconnected from community for
a long time, I think they need alot of hand to reconnect and
services need to be funded to beable to do that work.
(19:29):
Damian have your clients ingeneral experienced trauma in
their lives, that is acomplicating factor for them?
I think nearly every clientwe're working with has some sort
of trauma history and thatmanifests in different ways.
Some you can quite clearly see,due to the way they communicate,
(19:51):
the way they react to certainthings that their trauma history
is quite acute. Other people notas acute but yeah I'd say every
client has some sort of dramaticpart of their history that
impacts upon them, trying toengage with people and maintain
relationships.
Bridget Barker (20:10):
What about the mix of clients that you deal
with?
Damian Bozanic (20:13):
We've got a pretty good mix. I would still
say that males tend to be higherin our referrals than females,
but we've got a fairly evensplit. Age range, our
programme's 18 to 64, however,most would fall between 35 and
60. That'd be in the upper theolder bracket, not too many
(20:35):
young people. And I think if youlook at the proportion, I'd say
the percentage of indigenouspeople are over representing our
clients.
Bridget Barker (20:45):
That's a national tragedy, isn't it?
Damian Bozanic (20:47):
Yeah, it is. And I think the way we look at
working with the indigenous sortof group, we sort of need to
look outside the square there aswell. I think we approach it in
a way that sometimes doesn'twork for those clients. And it's
hard to connect with the widercommunity at times, too, for
various reasons. But I thinkwe've got to try harder in that
(21:10):
space.
Bridget Barker (21:11):
Thank you. I really appreciate your time. I'm
very grateful that you found thetime to record with me today.
Damian Bozanic (21:17):
That's okay. My pleasure. It's great that people
are talking about homelessnessand seeing it outside of the
sort of older stereotypical wayof looking at homelessness. I
think even for our staff who'vebeen working in the field for a
long time, we're constantlysurprised by some of the
referrals we see and the peoplewe would come in contact with.
(21:39):
And that services, I still don'tthink we network fantastically.
We can still do it better and wecan provide a better wraparound
service for some of the peoplewe work with.
Bridget Barker (21:53):
That's all for this second episode. Have a look
at the show notes for links touseful services. We look forward
to you joining us again for ournext episode, which should be
out soon.
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