November 20, 2024 • 52 mins
In this special episode, Sasha and Lynn from Legal Aid NSW's Elder Abuse Service, chat to Peg, an elder abuse survivor, about her experience and getting legal help.
If you or anyone you know is experiencing elder abuse, contact the Elder Abuse Service on (02) 4324 5611 or via Legal Aid NSW's team at LawAccess NSW. Call 1300 888 529 or chat online at www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au
The content in this episode may be distressing for some listeners. If you need support, help is available.
- Lifeline - 13 11 14
- 1800 RESPECT 1300 737 732
Download the transcript.
Disclaimer: This podcast is general information only and cannot be relied on as legal advice. The information is accurate at the time of posting but may have changed. If you need assistance about a particular situation, contact our team at LawAccess NSW via webchat at www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au or call 1300 888 529.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peg (00:00):
I was fed up with the intimidation, the verbal abuse,
enabling, the threats andisolation. Because I didn't look
physically abused, they weren'thelping. It was just hard work.
It was just hard work. What doessomeone have to die?
Lynn (00:27):
I would like to start by acknowledging that our recording
today is done on DarkinjungLand. I acknowledge and pay my
respect to the Elders past,present and emerging. And I
would like to extend thisacknowledgement and pay my
respects to Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander peoples
listening today,
Sasha (00:46):
This recording may contain some content that
listeners find distressing andit may be triggering for some
people. If you are impacted byanything you hear today, please
don't hesitate to seek supportyou music. Hi, my name is Sasha,
and I'm a solicitor with theelder abuse service, and I've
(01:09):
got -
Lynn (01:09):
Lynn McLennan here, social worker in the Elder Abuse Service.
Sasha (01:13):
Today we're going to be speaking with one of our
clients. Her name is Peg, andwe've changed her name for the
purposes of this podcast, abouther experience with elder abuse
and how we were able to supporther through that process and get
her to a point of safety. Duringtoday's podcast, you'll be
hearing the conversation we havehad with Peg alongside a
(01:33):
conversation that Lynn and Iwill be having separately with
one another to flesh out some ofthe broader issues around elder
abuse and trauma. Peg has had alifetime worth of trauma. She
has experienced domestic abusefrom a young age, firstly from
her father and from her husband,and then from her son, and that
(01:54):
is the point where she reachedout for support from us and our
service. The clients that comethrough the EAS usually have a
history of trauma. We've beenworking with Peg for a long
time, and she was one of theclients willing to share her
trauma history with us, which isnot always the case with our
clients for a number of reasons,anything from fear, shame,
(02:15):
stigma, guilt, embarrassment,cultural reasons and a varied
history of working withservices.
Lynn (02:21):
Well, that's right Sasha. There is a lot of stigma, fear
and shame built into sharing ourtrauma history. Peg has had
years of counselling andcontinues to receive counselling
which allowed her to speak withus and tell us the ways that she
would like to be supported whenshe's sharing her story. We
don't always have clients thathave this level of insight. So
(02:42):
when working with clients, wehave to be mindful that not only
may they have a trauma history,but they are currently
experiencing trauma. Elder abuseis traumatic. It is
psychologically overwhelming,and people experience a multi
layered emotional and somaticresponse to elder abuse. When
(03:03):
people experience multipletraumas in their life, it is
harder to bounce back to abaseline. So when we add aging
issues to the process, like lossof capacity, chronic and ongoing
health issues, loss of mobility,leading to isolation, the need
for care and supports at home,then the baseline shifts, and we
(03:26):
become less resilient.
Sasha (03:29):
Thanks, Lynn. I just thought it was really important
to also say that Peg wanted toshare her trauma history story
as part of the context of herlife, and while this podcast
isn't the platform for us todelve too deeply into that
history with her. We have doneso extensively in past
conversations with her.
(03:56):
Thank you so much for coming intoday, Peg. We really appreciate
it. Look, I think today, we justwant to hear from you a little
bit about your story. You've gota really incredible history, and
you've been through so much, andyou've overcome it with some
great supports. And we justthink it would be really
beneficial if everyone couldhear what it's been like and be
(04:17):
inspired by you in the same waythat we're inspired by you. So
would you like to maybe start byletting us know a little bit
about your history, and then wecan get into I guess what
brought you to us?
Peg (04:28):
Well, I made my first call at the age of nine to triple 000
because I was touched by myfather. That's very young, very
sad. My mother was dying inhospital, the cerebral
hemorrhage they removed. Therewas three blood clots on the
brain. They removed two. Theother one was too close to the
(04:50):
brain, so I had to look after mymother. From the age of nine, I
become her mother and my brotherat the age of seven. You got to
remember, back in 1969 there wasno Centrelink carers allowances
back then, so I had to make thebest money, the best way I
could. So I thought, how wellI'm nine year old, and I
(05:10):
developed quickly. I didn't looknine or 10 year old. So I
thought, now, you know, noCentrelink, no social security.
What am I going to do to lookafter my mother and my brother?
My father did a runner becausehe was scared to death, so I hit
the Cross and done what youcalled dirty dancing, and here I
am back again, 56 years later,still dialing triple 000.
Lynn (05:34):
So you grew up quite quickly?
Peg (05:37):
Yes, I did. Yes, I was nine years old. 1969.
Lynn (05:41):
But also, you took on the role of carer and provider.
Peg (05:44):
Yeah I did. I had to, because back then there was no
carers. Yeah, back then, mygrandmother used to call me
every day, every night. She knewI was going on, but she had 16
children of her own, and quiteoften we had the telephone on -
telephone line, which was agreat advantage, because back
then, a lot of people didn'thave that. Now, which we had
(06:06):
that, and my my grandmotherwould send - if I was crying,
and that - she would send anaunty down to pick us all up and
take us back to her house. Butwe had to come home eventually,
and I had to continue my life.You know, looking after my
mother and my brother. I didn'tgo to school from year three.
Lynn (06:29):
I can't imagine losing your childhood so young in life.
You became a carer, and in theprocess, lost your education.
Peg (06:36):
Yeah, like I never had - I'm not educated. Self taught to
read. But very good at sports.
Lynn (06:43):
And at what age did you then meet your husband? So you
had all that history of havingto be a carer, having to be a
provider, you know, lookingafter your family.
Peg (06:57):
The Star Hotel.
Lynn (06:58):
Okay, the Star Hotel?
Peg (07:01):
The famous Star Hotel.
Lynn (07:03):
Wow.
Peg (07:04):
Yeah, I know
Lynn (07:05):
Tell us - what's that story?
Peg (07:07):
That's where I met him. That's where he picked me up. I
was dancing on the bar back in1979. Yeah, he taught me to
read.
Lynn (07:16):
Ah okay, so he was a bit of a saviour, maybe at that
point?
Peg (07:21):
At that time, yeah, at that time, he was a saviour, yeah,
yeah.
Lynn (07:25):
Was your mum still alive at that point?
Peg (07:27):
Yes, yes, she, she lived right until 2017.
Lynn (07:30):
Ah, so you were, you remained her carer?
Peg (07:33):
Yeah I honoured her, yeah, I looked after her.
Lynn (07:37):
That shows a lot about your character.
Peg (07:40):
Yeah, I honoured my mother. She was a handful
Lynn (07:44):
In what way?
Peg (07:45):
In what way? Well, she had to have a lot of medication. She
was a child herself. I used tosee her argue with my children
over a packet of chips, right tothe extent of tearing them
apart. I wasn't allowed to visitmy mother at the hospital.
Lynn (08:02):
At the time when it first happened, you mean?
Peg (08:04):
Yeah when I was nine, back in 1969. I was too young, they
said.
Lynn (08:12):
Okay.
Peg (08:12):
So all I've been told is my mother had a cerebral
hemorrhage. I was there when shewas playing tennis. Okay, and it
was caused from high bloodpressure. But all I was told -
it's all I was told off myaunties, it was caused from the
pill, contraception of the pill.
Lynn (08:34):
And did she collapse on the field?
Peg (08:36):
Playing tennis. Very good tennis player.
Lynn (08:40):
So that would have been quite traumatic in itself, on
top of all the other traumasthat you experience in your
life.
Peg (08:46):
Yes, it's been horrible.
Lynn (08:48):
And I understand your husband was a very violent
person as well?
Peg (08:54):
Yes. Well, you know he was, yeah, he was a violent man.
Lynn (09:00):
Yeah. So Peg, you've always been a warrior, a
fighter?
Peg (09:03):
Yes, yes. It's just in the bloodline, I think.
Lynn (09:06):
Yeah. Shows a lot of strength, that resilience that
you have.
Peg (09:10):
Yes.
Lynn (09:11):
Yeah.
Sasha (09:17):
Lynn, can we talk a bit more about what resilience looks
like with our clients, it's notalways the same, is it?
Lynn (09:23):
Before we do that, I'd like to just say and explain
what resilience is. So it refersto our mental and emotional
ability to react and recoverfrom adversity. But it can take
another event like elder abuseor failing health or a
triggering incident for ourclients' resilience to diminish.
(09:48):
So I just want to touch on usingthe word resilience with our
clients. Psychiatrist Dr. BrucePerry is a leading researcher in
the field of trauma, and hetalks about resilience being a
transient state. Our clientsmight come to us seeming
resilient, strong, able tofunction, but added traumas and
(10:10):
stresses such as elder abuse candeteriorate someone's ability to
cope.
Sasha (10:16):
So I guess what you're saying is it's important that
we're really mindful of that,because the clients that are
coming to us are currentlyexperiencing a level of trauma
with elder abuse. They'reactively in a trauma state, and
that is what it could look like.There could be physical,
psychological, financial,emotional and sexual abuse.
(10:37):
Predominantly the perpetratorsof this abuse are family
members, typically an adultchild, which comes with quite a
complex dynamic in itself,because it involves family.
Lynn (10:47):
That's right, Sasha. Elder abuse is a complex issue in our
society that is multi-layeredand includes compounding issues
like trauma and family dynamics.It is also underpinned by
societal views on aging, thatincludes the thought that older
people have diminished capacityand family know what's best for
(11:08):
them.
Sasha (11:09):
Absolutely, Lynn. We often say that elder abuse has
all the components of domesticviolence with the added
complexities that come withaging, including cognitive
decline, deteriorating physicalhealth, reliance on others for
care, and social isolation. Sowe're always really mindful of
that when interacting with ourclients.
Lynn (11:33):
So tell us a bit more about your son. You have spoken
previously to us about hishistory of drug use. Do you want
to share more about what thatexperience was like?
Peg (11:45):
I was mortified. It was, it was - broke my heart. Because I
just thought now, who done that?Who would have enticed this
little educated boy with aChristian education? What
happened?
Lynn (12:03):
Peg would like to now share a poem that she has
written about her son'sexperience with drugs, which
cuts to the heart of theexperiences that she has faced
with him and what's led her toour service. Peg has pre
recorded this on her phoneso youwill hear a difference in the
recording.
Peg (12:26):
I destroy homes. I tear families apart. I'll take your
children, and that's just thestart. I'm more costly than
diamonds, more precious thangold. The sorrow I bring is a
sight to behold. If you need me,remember, I'm easy to find. I
(12:49):
live around you in schools andin town. I live with the rich. I
live with the poor. I even livedown the street and maybe next
door. I'm made in the lab, butnot how you think I can even be
made under a kitchen sink. In awardrobe, even in the bush, in a
(13:14):
line locker. If this scares youto death, well, it certainly
should. I have many names, butthere's one you know best. I'm
sure you've heard of me. My nameis Crystal Meth. My power is
awesome. Try me, you'll see. Butif you do, you may never break
(13:38):
free. Just try me once, and Imight let you go, but try me
twice, and I'll own your bodyand soul. Amen.
I nearly started crying thenjust listening it because it's
(14:01):
so true. And I wrote a lot morethan that, but I thought that's
enough, because I had no ideathat two decades ago that my son
was on that.
Sasha (14:17):
And did his behavior change towards you? What was
that like?
Peg (14:20):
Controlling. Especially when his father died, he wanted
to take his role and wanted totake over. Thought it was his
property.
Sasha (14:31):
Your home?
Peg (14:31):
Yeah, he thought it was all going to be his. He even tried
to kick myself and my daughtersout of my own house. I had a
solicitor call me and say, "I'vejust had your son here demanding
that I take on a case to kickyou out your own home." So he
showed the computer to my sonand said, "you can see your
(14:56):
father's name's nowhere on thistitle." So that's where it all
came from. He thought he wouldjust take over where daddy left,
but that wasn't going to be thecase. That's when I just got
harder and fight. Just wasfighting and fighting for it,
yeah, and protecting mydaughters. But he was, he had
(15:16):
all intentions of just kickingme out of my property and my
daughters.
Sasha (15:21):
So once he realised he couldn't do that, what happened
then?
Peg (15:28):
What happened? Then? Well, he just kept indulging, and then
he got in trouble with thepolice, yep. And then was, went
away in prison, yeah, nine yearsmaximum. It's heavy stuff. And
then begged me, after all that,to help him. So I mortgaged my
(15:49):
house. It cost me over $60,000.
Sasha (16:00):
We see this a lot, don't we, Lynn? That constant struggle
our clients face between helpingtheir children and also wanting
to protect their own needs andfeel safe.
Lynn (16:09):
Yeah, Sasha, it's a real tough one. The issue is so multi
layered, because we're workingwith parents and children, where
children are often theperpetrators of the violence.
And unlike marriage, you can'tdivorce your children.
Sasha (16:26):
Well that's it. You can't always just walk away and not
look back. And often, ourclients, despite the abuse, they
don't want to do that anyway.They want to maintain a
relationship most of the time,which is what makes it so hard.
Lynn (16:38):
That's right, Sasha. You know, a lot of clients children
have complex trauma historiesthemselves. Many of them have
mental illness or drug andalcohol issues or a disability
like an acquired brain injury,for which their parents feel a
responsibility to care for them.They worry about who will care
for them if they don't. And inPeg's situation, she hoped that
(17:01):
things would change, and that'swhy she wanted to help him.
Sasha (17:04):
Yeah, it really is a regular theme that we see where
clients will come to us in theseabusive situations, but rather
than seeking help forthemselves, they often plead
with us to help their children,seeing this as the resolution to
their problem. If they can gettheir children the help that
they need, then maybe the abusewill stop and their relationship
can improve.
(17:30):
After all that you still stillhelped him?
Peg (17:33):
I still helped him. Where I was saying to, to my daughters,
"no he done the crime, do thetime." "Oh no, no, you should
help him." I had no idea that itwas going to cost that much. I
had to borrow $60,000 - mortgagemy house - to help him. And
(17:53):
after five years, he got out. Idid not give any approval of him
come to come to my property. Butback in 2017 that's where it
came to. And I had been living ahorrible life - the past, since
2017 till now, from thathorrible poem that I've written.
(18:16):
I had to move out my ownproperty. My daughter's left.
Started families of their own.And that just left me to put up
and watch it all go down.
Sasha (18:26):
So he was bailed to your address?
Peg (18:30):
Yeah, well, I didn't even get any - I cannot remember even
saying yes or getting a letteror the police coming. I can't
remember that. It just happened.I knew he was getting out, yeah,
but there was no questions askedif he was allowed to come there.
And I thought that's theprocedure. I've never been in
(18:51):
gaol myself. Okay, I've neverdone crime, but that's where he
came to, my address.
Sasha (19:00):
So what happened once he moved in? Can you talk to us a
little bit about how thingschange and what it was like for
you?
Peg (19:08):
Well he moved in, of course. I had my family there,
and I had a nice cake and lovelydinner and everything for him.
Welcome him back with balloonsand everything, like a party,
you know. You've just done fiveyears in maximum. I mean,
'Welcome home,' you know. But hewas on parole for four years
after that, so he had to reportevery day. So mummy had to drive
(19:30):
him there. Mummy did that. Hehad to apply for his license
again, his truck license. Mummydid all that as well. Mummy paid
for all that as well. Mummy dideverything for him. I honoured
him. And he just got back ontothat, that horrible poem.
Sasha (19:47):
Yeah, back onto the drugs?
Peg (19:49):
Yep but I've been told that all the money that I was giving
him - inmates called inmates tobuy Buy Ups. It's called Buy
Ups. I was putting in $100 aweek, and I said, that's a lot
of money. I was going andvisiting him. I think I went to
(20:09):
14 gaols to visit him, and thevendoring machines and
everything I had - that all costmoney as well. When you're at
the visiting - nothing is forfree.
Sasha (20:20):
Yeah.
Peg (20:21):
I thought, you know, like, this is a lot of money. You
know, I'm only on the pension,$100 a week. You already owe me
over $60,000 I'm going to cutthat back to 50. I'm doing the
best I can, you know. It's justbeen horrific, and I just want
it all to stop.
Sasha (20:37):
Yeah, of course. So when, um, when did it change once he
moved in? When did his behaviorstart to shift towards you? Was
it immediate?
Peg (20:46):
Yeah.
Sasha (20:47):
Okay.
Peg (20:48):
Yeah, it was immediate. Took control immediately.
Sasha (20:50):
And what sort of things was he doing, like taking
control of your money, or -
Peg (20:55):
Trying to, yeah, yeah, trying to. Yeah, yeah, taking
control of the whole house,having lots of his friends
coming around, having sessionsin his room, the crack, which is
out the glass pipe in his room,he'd lock it all up. I couldn't
(21:15):
get it was a big room, like thishuge. It all started from that.
He was just back on it again. Sohe never got off it. Yeah, he
never got off it.
Sasha (21:29):
And at what point did you, did he kind of force you
out of the house?
Peg (21:34):
Yeah I left. I walked out. I couldn't say I asthmatic. I
couldn't stand the smell of it.People say it doesn't smell, but
I'm telling you, it does. Mywhole house just melted
chemicals.
Sasha (21:45):
Yeah, so you felt like you couldn't stay?
Peg (21:47):
No, it was best for me, as an asthmatic to get out of
there.
Sasha (21:51):
Yeah.
Peg (21:51):
So I went out to my studio. I've got a studio. I even had to
pee in a bucket. But it wasbetter for my health and my
asthma ,because I'm highasthmatic, to get out of there,
and I just watched it all godown. So it was horrible. Was
heartbreaking. He had all theluxuries, and I was paying all
(22:13):
the bills, you know, the rates,the tank water, all the
electricity bills, all the food,watching people just coming and
going to my property that Ididn't invite.
Sasha (22:32):
So I think we need to highlight at this moment that
financial abuse can also looklike what Peg is talking about
here. It doesn't have to looklike thousands of dollars
disappearing from bank accountsor money taken out of your
wallet, ATM cards being stolen.It can look different.
Lynn (22:48):
Exactly, you know, it can look like children not
contributing to household bills,then moving back in, adding to
your financial burden andleaving you with all the bills
while they live rent free. Or inPeg's case, her son was
constantly knocking on her doorand demanding money so that he
(23:10):
could get drugs. Now, Sasha,tell me if someone presented to
usexperiencing elder abuse inthis more passive way, what sort
of remedies can we use?
Sasha (23:23):
Well, Lynn, we do see this a lot. Older people may not
necessarily notice at the timethat their money begins to go
missing. So they come to usfeeling uncertain about what's
happening in their accounts. Wetalk to them about safeguarding
their finances, about safetyplanning. If they feel like
money is missing from theiraccounts or they're not too
sure, we'll often start byrequesting documents from their
(23:45):
bank and just looking into theiraccounts. For them, what I tend
to look for is irregularspending patterns, transactions
that they can't really explain.Essentially, just red flags that
are signs of financial abuse,depending on the nature of
what's happened and how we willthen investigate to see whether
the bank was at fault in notsafeguarding the account from
(24:06):
the fraud or alerting the olderperson. We've had instances
where we've actually been ableto get the bank to acknowledge
fault and return money.
Lynn (24:21):
Was he verbally abusive to you? Would he yell and was he -
?
Peg (24:27):
He's not very loud, but he would come and ask, and I'd say,
I haven't got any then he wouldgo back into the big house and
punch the Smart TV. I used tohave a big Smart TV. I used to.
Lynn (24:40):
Yeah.
Peg (24:41):
Two of them. Gone.
Lynn (24:43):
So a lot of intimidation, then?
Peg (24:45):
A lot of intimidation. A lot of intimidation, and I'd be
- I wouldn't open my screendoor.
Lynn (24:52):
Yeah.
Peg (24:53):
I would just be talking to him from my studio. I wouldn't
let him in.
Lynn (24:56):
Yeah, tell me about the effects of that level of abuse
on you, physically andemotionally. What did that do to
you?
Peg (25:05):
Well, I had a panic attack. Start cying all the time, I'd be
nervous, yeah.
Lynn (25:12):
So your mental health was obviously affected?
Peg (25:15):
All I did was sleep so tired.
Lynn (25:18):
So you had no energy left. Did you experience any other
health concern? I know you hadsurgery during this difficult
time?
Peg (25:26):
Yes. Well, I had bowel cancer last year. I couldn't
walk for five months, but I'm onmedication now for the rest of
my life. Which is, which isgood, but, yeah, all this is all
on just all I can say is I'mglad that I got out of that
(25:47):
house. It was just hard work. Itwas just hard work. What does
someone have to die? You know,or take, you know, matters into
their own hands? Like back inthe day. That's how I felt. That
was very hard work. This is notChicago back in 1920 you know.
Lynn (26:16):
I was wanting Peg to speak about the way her physical and
mental health deteriorated overthis time, because people don't
always consider the way in whichabuse impacts us physically and
psychologically.
Sasha (26:30):
Yeah, we usually see a lot of people experiencing
mental health issues, peoplecoming in and out of hospital,
anxiety, panic attacks, fatigue.
Lynn (26:40):
Absolutely, Sasha. Actually, there's a lot of work
that's been done on the impactsof abuse on a person's mental
health and health in general.Often, one of the first signs
that person is experiencingelder abuse will be a shift in
mood or lack of drive in thethings that were previously
enjoyable. We may also notice aloss of appetite or the person
(27:02):
becoming withdrawn from familyand friends. Many of our clients
experience anxiety, depressionand suicidal ideation as a
direct result of the impact ofabuse.
Sasha (27:19):
And you mentioned that he was damaging property and
stealing things as well. Can youtalk to us a little bit about
that?
Peg (27:26):
Yeah, I certainly can. Well, that was the last straw.
Was when I am I went down to mygarage and I thought - I
wasshocked, where are all mymags and wheels. All gone. Just
like that. That was the laststraw. The next day, I didn't
(27:48):
phone triple 000 - the next day,because I wouldn't enable him
with $400, at midnight, he tookmy Harley, my husband's Harley,
well, it's my Harley Davidson,Harley Davidson out, which I
have not registered since thedeath of my husband. Took my
Harley Davidson out up midnight.I mean midnight, that is not
good. I'm only in a village.It's disrespectful. And did
(28:12):
burnouts on it. Come back thenext morning, seven o'clock and
I went, "What have you done tomy Harley? You had no right to
take my possessions." It's noteven registered. It's not
insured, still in my name fromyears ago, but it's all because
I would not enable him. Yeah,I'd had enough. So that was the
(28:35):
last straw. I dialed triple 000because I was fed up with the
intimidation, the verbal abuse,enabling, the threats and
isolation.
Sasha (28:50):
What happened then?
Peg (28:51):
What happened then? Action begun. I went down to the police
station, and hours it tookbecause I didn't look like I'd
been abused. I had no blood orbeen assaulted, just mentally.
Was hard for me to get help. Andthen I got on to elderly abuse.
I made the call with elderlyabuse, which I had to find
(29:14):
online, and that's when I madethe call. And I've been getting
professional help since then.And the domestic violence, what
they call the Women's Advocacy Igot all professional help.
Sasha (29:28):
Just to clarify here, when Peg says "elderly abuse",
she is referring to our service,the Elder Abuse Service. You can
contact us on 4324 5611. Andwhen Peg talks about contacting
triple 000, this is a responseshe's had her whole life, and
(29:49):
it's her way of saying that youneed to reach out for help. In
this instance, the police,particularly an Age Crime
Prevention Officer, directed Pegto our service, which is the
right initial point of contactfor these types of matters.
Because we are client focused,we are able to provide the
advocacy and social supportrequired to help clients' voices
be heard and assist them inunderstanding their options and
(30:11):
their rights.
Lynn (30:20):
You said you went to the police station. What sort of
happened there?
Peg (30:23):
Well, I went to the front desk and I said, "my son's just
threatened to burn my house downwith me in it." So then he said
to me, "you go over to thecourt," to the courthouse. And
my girlfriend and I walked overthere and had to get us a
register for help. I don't knowwhere this senior constable was.
She was a godsend. She wassomewhere in that courtroom. She
(30:47):
come tap me on the shoulder,"call me, you need help."
Lynn (30:51):
Right, that's where it started. So she's the Age Crime
Prevention Officer who tappedyou on the shoulder and said,
"here."
Peg (30:59):
She said, "call me." And then I called her the next day
because I was exhausted. Mygirlfriend and I are exhausted.
And the next morning, I calledher, and then she just kept
calling me, and I was justgetting worse and worse, just
seeing. It just wasn't stopping.
Lynn (31:14):
Tell us what happened when you saw the constable, the Age
Crime Prevention officer, andyou went and wrote a letter with
support from your friend. Isthat right?
Peg (31:25):
Yeah, yes, I got a letter asking him to evacuate the
property within 21 days. Thepolice told me to do that. Well,
that didn't happen. He had nointentions of doing that. So I
had to ring triple 000 again.And then when he went out, and I
thought, well, tomorrow, you'vegot to be out of there. So of
course, I handwrote another oneand put it under his door. Under
(31:50):
the door. You've got to be outof his property. Off my property
- it's 21 days tomorrow. And hehad no intentions of getting
out.
Sasha (31:59):
And that's when you reached out to us.
Peg (32:01):
Yes.
Sasha (32:01):
Yeah. So that letter you're talking about is a Notice
to Vacate, and essentially whatit does is you're as the owner
of the property. You're tellinghim he no longer has the right
to be there, and if he stayspast the amount of time that
you've given him, he'strespassing.
Peg (32:20):
Yes.
Sasha (32:21):
Yeah. So that's when we kind of jumped in and tried to
help speak with the police onyour behalf to make sure they
went over there to move him out.Wasn't a smooth process, though,
was it?
Peg (32:33):
It was very hard work, Sasha, it was. Would have took
you four months to get thatorder because I didn't look
physically abused. They weren'thelping.
Lynn (32:53):
For many of our clients, Sasha, it takes quite a bit to
get to a point where our clientsare ready to take that step to
get their children out of theirhome. So what are the legal
options for getting adultchildren out of the house? You
mentioned a Notice to Vacate.What does that mean?
Sasha (33:12):
So essentially, as the owner or primary occupier of
your home, you've got the legalright to ask anyone to leave. If
you don't want someone there,they can't be there. I'm talking
specifically in these situationswhere the child isn't a tenant,
they're not paying any rent,they're simply living there and
not contributing to thehousehold. They have no legal
(33:34):
right to be in the home, even ifthey've lived there their whole
life. It doesn't mean that theycan stay and I think that's what
a lot of older people andyounger people don't realise. So
we utilise a legislation calledthe Enclosed Lands Act. That's a
really ancient piece oflegislation that originally was
used to deal with cattle andsheep, but more recently, it's
(33:56):
used to move on people loiteringon private property, such as
shopping centres and schools.Section 4 of that legislation
gives you the right to asksomeone to leave your home, and
if they don't, it creates acivil trespass, essentially
meaning that they will betrespassing if they stay.
Section 6 of that legislationthen gives the police the power
(34:16):
to come and move them on. Sowhen we have a situation like
this where an older person wantstheir adult child or family
member or friend out of thehouse, we issue this Notice to
Vacate letter and give them aperiod of time of the older
persons choosing to leave, andwe then provide a copy of that
letter to the police, and we'lladvocate for the older person
(34:36):
with the police to ensure thatif that person hasn't left by
the date, then the police willcome and move them on.
Lynn (34:42):
That sounds like a really empowering process for our
clients to go through. I canimagine that some people may get
worried about an increase ofabuse if they give a letter of
eviction to their abusive child.If these concerns arise and a
safety plan made with the socialworker does not help the client
with their concerns, what otheroptions do people have?
Sasha (35:06):
Yeah look in instances where there has been violence or
threats of violence, or theolder person is feeling
particularly unsafe and at riskwith the person in their home.
In those instances, we talk tothem about taking out an
Apprehended Domestic ViolenceOrder with the police and asking
for exclusion orders to preventthe adult child from being able
(35:27):
to enter the home and live inthe home. In Peg's, instance,
while we did initially tryissuing the Notice to Vacate,
her situation was, in fact,serious enough that we thought
it necessary to advocate withthe police to show the need for
an ADVO with exclusion orders.While Peg did have an AVO it
didn't have those ordersattached, and we were able to
(35:49):
explain additional instances ofabuse to the Age Crime
Prevention officer, which led tous supporting Peg to make a
revised statement to the policeand a new ADVO being issued.
So then we went a differentapproach, and we spoke with the
(36:15):
police and tried to get aApprehended Violence Order. Do
you want to talk to us a littlebit about how that process was
for you?
Peg (36:25):
It was hard work. Yeah, was really hard work, because all I
kept doing was having the policecome to my property.
Sasha (36:32):
Yeah.
Peg (36:33):
And they kept telling me, No, they can't. I'm not eligible
for it.
Sasha (36:38):
Yeah. So I guess from our perspective, you know, you were
so strong through all of this,but it was a really difficult
process. And, you know, I thinkthere were points where you kind
of questioned why it was sohard. And, you know, it had
taken you so long to get to thepoint where you were ready to
(36:59):
take a stand, that it wasprobably a bit frustrating that
it was taking so long to kind ofget the outcome you wanted. But
you didn't give up, did you?
Peg (37:09):
No, I didn't give up, but I think I honestly feel like he
was trying. This is how I felt,trying to make me kill myself,
suicide. That's how I felt. Andnobody helped. There was no
help, and with all theantidepressants I was on, which
(37:30):
was a lot, I did a lot ofsleeping, and I just thought,
well, this is going to be life.I'm done. I've just had enough.
I just kept fighting.
Sasha (37:42):
Yeah well, we did get there. We got got enough there
for the AVO, and then Iunderstand you went and with the
information I provided, you wentdown to the police station and
gave another statement.
Peg (37:57):
Yes, I did, yes, yeah, she was good, yeah.
Sasha (38:00):
There for a few hours, but got it in.
Peg (38:02):
Yeah.
Sasha (38:03):
And then they issued the AVO with exclusion orders, which
meant that he had to leave theproperty. So then when they went
out to try to issue it with him,I understand that took a little
bit of time as well, because hewas evading the police for a
bit.
Peg (38:18):
It was terrible, because I'm I'm at out outside, living
in my studio, and the policehave arrived, so I've had to get
go down, unchained and unboltlock the gates, and there was
like two police cars, fourpolice officers and and I took
them into the house, and he'slocked himself in the bedroom,
(38:39):
and, you know, like, wouldn'tcome out and talk to them, and
they were doing their job as apolice officer, protecting. They
told me to go. I just took theminto the house. They said,"go."
So I went out, and they didtheir job, and bang, bang, bang.
Eventually got him to open thedoor. He was in there off his
head, even when he opened thedoors, the heap of smoke come
(39:03):
out. And then he startedverbally abusing them. But the
police officers were verystrong, because you'd had given
them the order that he was toget out, and it was hard work,
but he was calling them names,and I was outside hiding in the
studio. It was just terrible.You know, I didn't even ask for
(39:24):
him to come and live with me.
Lynn (39:26):
Peg, can you tell me like I'm interested, and I think
people would be interested tosort of know the about the
strength that you had to be ableto do this, because this is,
this is your son, right?
Peg (39:39):
Oh it was hard.
Lynn (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah, you raised him. You've loved him, you know,
you have. You want the best foryour children. You know, as
parents, we want to doeverything that we can to
support and love our kids. Youremortgage your home to be able
to bail him and in and help himout, and then he comes to your
(40:03):
home and you hope you. It stillsounds like you were hoping for
a good outcome for him to beable to change things around,
and obviously that wasn'tpossible for him.
Peg (40:16):
Absolutely not.
Lynn (40:18):
How do you as a parent sort of go, "look, I've, I've
loved this child, but now I needand I still love" you know it,
the love doesn't go away, I'msure, but there's a strength
that you need to to get fromyourself to be able to go "I
can't, as much as I love thisperson, I can't deal with being
(40:46):
hurt and being abused like thisevery day from my child." How do
you get to that point? Because alot of people that we talk to
okay really struggle with that.To be able to sort of go, you
know, I love this child, I wantto look after them, I want the
best for them, but I'm going toleave them here, even though
(41:10):
they're abusing me as to mydetriment, that I will put up
with being abused. So how didyou find that strength? Where
did that come from?
Peg (41:23):
Inner strength and and once you start hurting or doing
anything or to my possessions,that was the last straw, because
I'd worked hard all, from blood,sweat and tears, all my life.
Lynn (41:35):
And I think that's what a lot of people you know, there
might come a time where it'slike, this is this is the line
in
Peg (41:44):
It was when you touch my possessions
Lynn (41:49):
and the stuff that you've worked really hard for, as you
said.
Peg (41:52):
The TVs, I accepted the threats and the verbal abuse.
Lynn (41:56):
Yeah
Peg (41:57):
Trying to burn the house down
Lynn (41:59):
Yeah
Peg (41:59):
Eating my food. I'm paying for all your bills.
Lynn (42:02):
I think I heard you say once as well that, you know,
"this isn't my little boyanymore."
Peg (42:09):
He's a monster. Yeah, that was not the little boy. I've got
a photo of him, but that was nothow I brought him up.
Lynn (42:16):
Yeah.
Peg (42:17):
It's the crystal meth. They, everybody said to me,
"it's the drugs" and I got fedup with it.
Lynn (42:23):
Yeah.
Peg (42:24):
I said, "well, you should only indulge in moderation" in
anything, you have to be incontrol of yourself. You must be
in control.
Lynn (42:42):
Yeah, it taught you that resilience.
Peg (42:45):
Yeah, exactly. You've just got to have the inner strength
and you've just got to fight,because there's no way I was
going to kill myself or let himor anybody harm me in any way,
and have my possessions or myproperty that I'd work hard all
my life for which I'm stillpaying off now.
Lynn (43:08):
It is a great message Peg - reminding people that these
are the things you worked hardfor, and no one has a right to
damage or take them from you.Now I want to ask you a question
based on something that you havespoken about before. I recall
you telling us that in the past,you have reached out to friends
(43:31):
about what you were goingthrough and how you came to
realise that talking to friendsis not always enough.
Peg (43:38):
No, look, I did speak out to my friends, yeah, but they
haven't experienced it. Theyhaven't lived through it, you
know, and they don't know how tojust sit there and be quiet and
What would you say to otherolder people who are going
listen. I'm trying to unloadhere. It's called build up. I've
(43:59):
only made space. It will nevergo away. It will never go away
in my subconscious. I just makespace for all this. It never,
ever goes away. You just makespace for it. But you know, no
good talking to your neighbor oryour girlfriend, and that's why
I contacted elderly abuse,because that's their job.
(44:23):
They're professionals. They'rethere to help you, and you have
to dial triple 000 and stayonline. That is your help.
through a similar experienceright now and don't feel like
they can speak up or reach outfor help?
Wow, I'll pray for them. Butthey have to dial triple 000 and
(44:44):
they have to get help. Elderlyabuse - because they're
professionals, they will helpyou.
Sasha (44:50):
What if they feel embarrassed or feel like it's
their fault or they can't, theyshouldn't? What would you tell
them?
Peg (44:59):
They shouldn't feel like that. They tried, they did the
best they could. There'ssupport. You must pick up the
phone and attend allappointments. And follow all
instructions and pick up thatphone when it's got no caller
ID. You must answer the phone.Don't hide under the bed, go
behind the lounge, answer thatphone. It'll come up no caller
(45:22):
ID.
Sasha (45:24):
And how do you feel now that you did get help? How have
things changed for you?
Peg (45:29):
Oh, better now. I know. I just keep ringing. I just keep
ringing back up. Well just keepringing the police. Just keep
keep ringing people that I knowthat are professional that will
help me. I'll fight till theend.
Sasha (45:43):
But you know, you've made that stand. You spent many
years, kind of living with himthere, and you realised enough
was enough. You did what you hadto do.
Peg (45:53):
and I'll fight to the end.
Sasha (45:55):
Yeah, should be really proud of yourself.
Peg (45:57):
Yeah. And I'm so fit. I can run 10ks in two hours.
Sasha (46:01):
Amazing. Things feel better for you now that he's out
Peg (46:05):
Oh yeah, the headaches gone. I'm still paranoid, still
of the picture?
very paranoid.
Sasha (46:13):
You've been through a lot.
Peg (46:14):
Yeah, I'm still chaining and padlocking the gates, which
I probably will do to the day ordie. That's what it's done to
me. It's scarred me for life,like I said before, it will
never go away. I just make spacefor it. I've worked hard all my
life, and no way I'm giving up.
Sasha (46:34):
And for people out there who think that it couldn't
possibly be happening to anyoneelse, that it's only happening
in their home, what would youtell them?
Peg (46:42):
You've just got to give it up. You just got to stop
enabling. Think of yourself.
Sasha (46:49):
It's a great message.
Peg (46:50):
It is. You've got to think of yourself, because they don't.
Sasha (46:57):
Yeah, it's a strong message there in protecting
yourself and and reaching outfor help.
Peg (47:02):
You're worth it.
Sasha (47:03):
You are worth it.
Peg (47:04):
You're worth it. You're worth it.
Sasha (47:08):
Absolutely.
Peg (47:09):
You're worth it.
Sasha (47:13):
It's been really beautiful, I guess, to see the
way that you've just, yeah, thechange from the first time we
met you to now you're just fullof all this life and confidence.
And it's been a really kind ofnatural and, yeah, just
beautiful progression to see theway that you've really come into
yourself, and the way they kindof talking and sitting and just
(47:36):
smiling right now is reallylovely. So thank you.
Peg (47:40):
And I will help anyone in need, out of love, out of love.
Lynn (47:45):
I know you've been a strong advocate recently as
well, and you've led the march -
Peg (47:50):
Yes.
Lynn (47:50):
In your local area where you live, for domestic violence
walk in the marches. So itsounds like, you know, having
all that extra support, reachingout to the different services
that you've reached out to, andbeing in touch with them has,
you know, also fueled thatalready natural resilience that
(48:11):
you had. And you know now you'reyou're empowered, and empowering
others in what you're doing heretoday, and being out in those
marches and talking to peopleabout your experience is just
profound.
Peg (48:29):
Well being the leader of the pack. Don't forget to put
that leader of the pack at theInternational Women's week - my
sign I did myself, not afraid.Not afraid. That's what I had.
I'm not afraid. They're allbehind me. I was the leader of
(48:50):
the pack, of them all, yeah,yeah. And you know it's just how
it was. And I'm just full of itnow, and I'll fight to the end,
for anyone in need, for anywoman, any child, anyone in
need, I just will not tolerateit anymore.
Sasha (49:05):
I guess I just wanted to know before we wrap up, was
there any part of the processthat worked particularly well
for you? Like, was thereanything that was like, "yep,
this is it. This is what'sworking for me. I'm so happy I
reached out." Was there anypoint for you that made that
stand out for you?
Peg (49:25):
Apart from dialing triple 000 and then finding elderly
abuse. And they said to me,"there's one in Newcastle." I
said,"Where's the head office?"That's where I reached out to
"I'll do the drive." "Yeah, youdon't have to do" I said, "Yes,
I will. I don't want to dealwith some more fries. Where's
the head office?" Straight tothe top. You just have to have
(49:51):
the guts and courage. Beruthless and no filter, I guess.
I can remember coming down hereyelling at ya's. I was totally
out of control. I felt better,but now I can actually sit down.
Calmer now.
Sasha (50:06):
Yeah.
Peg (50:08):
I'm not even crying, which is good, yeah, make the call.
That's all triple 000, elderlyabuse, DV, Open Arms. You know,
with the army, I was in that aswell, my father, they're all
help. They're all professionalhelp that will help you.
Sasha (50:29):
Yeah. All right. Well, is there anything else you wanted
to share with us? Any othermessage you want to get out and
you feel like you've covered itall?
Peg (50:39):
Get professional help. Encourage others.
Sasha (50:44):
Well, I'm so glad that you made that drive down to meet
with us that day. Amazinginspiration.
Peg (50:51):
Thank you. I hope I help some others, and if they don't,
if they can't speak, give us acall, I'll speak on their
behalf.
Sasha (51:00):
I hope you got something out of today too.
Peg (51:03):
Yeah, I have. I haven't even shed a tear yet.
Sasha (51:06):
Yeah.
Peg (51:07):
Which is good. So that's how strong I am.
Sasha (51:10):
Yeah.
Peg (51:11):
Now. Before - I'd cry all the time, aw poor me, poor me,
poor me. But no, not now, yeah,I'll fight to the end.
Sasha (51:24):
Thank you so much, Peg for sharing your story with us
today. I hope that other peoplehave been able to take something
from this, and if you or anyonethat you know is experiencing or
at risk of elder abuse, andanything that we've said today
might resonate, please don'thesitate to reach out to us and
know that support is available,even if you just want that
(51:48):
initial conversation to knowyour options, we are more than
happy to chat with you and getyou to a point where you might
be ready to take that next step.
I was fed up with the intimidation, the verbal abuse,
enabling, the threats andisolation. Because I didn't look
physically abused, they weren'thelping. It was just hard work.
It was just hard work. What doessomeone have to die?
Lynn (00:27):
I would like to start by acknowledging that our recording
today is done on DarkinjungLand. I acknowledge and pay my
respect to the Elders past,present and emerging. And I
would like to extend thisacknowledgement and pay my
respects to Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander peoples
listening today,
Sasha (00:46):
This recording may contain some content that
listeners find distressing andit may be triggering for some
people. If you are impacted byanything you hear today, please
don't hesitate to seek supportyou music. Hi, my name is Sasha,
and I'm a solicitor with theelder abuse service, and I've
(01:09):
got -
Lynn (01:09):
Lynn McLennan here, social worker in the Elder Abuse Service.
Sasha (01:13):
Today we're going to be speaking with one of our
clients. Her name is Peg, andwe've changed her name for the
purposes of this podcast, abouther experience with elder abuse
and how we were able to supporther through that process and get
her to a point of safety. Duringtoday's podcast, you'll be
hearing the conversation we havehad with Peg alongside a
(01:33):
conversation that Lynn and Iwill be having separately with
one another to flesh out some ofthe broader issues around elder
abuse and trauma. Peg has had alifetime worth of trauma. She
has experienced domestic abusefrom a young age, firstly from
her father and from her husband,and then from her son, and that
(01:54):
is the point where she reachedout for support from us and our
service. The clients that comethrough the EAS usually have a
history of trauma. We've beenworking with Peg for a long
time, and she was one of theclients willing to share her
trauma history with us, which isnot always the case with our
clients for a number of reasons,anything from fear, shame,
(02:15):
stigma, guilt, embarrassment,cultural reasons and a varied
history of working withservices.
Lynn (02:21):
Well, that's right Sasha. There is a lot of stigma, fear
and shame built into sharing ourtrauma history. Peg has had
years of counselling andcontinues to receive counselling
which allowed her to speak withus and tell us the ways that she
would like to be supported whenshe's sharing her story. We
don't always have clients thathave this level of insight. So
(02:42):
when working with clients, wehave to be mindful that not only
may they have a trauma history,but they are currently
experiencing trauma. Elder abuseis traumatic. It is
psychologically overwhelming,and people experience a multi
layered emotional and somaticresponse to elder abuse. When
(03:03):
people experience multipletraumas in their life, it is
harder to bounce back to abaseline. So when we add aging
issues to the process, like lossof capacity, chronic and ongoing
health issues, loss of mobility,leading to isolation, the need
for care and supports at home,then the baseline shifts, and we
(03:26):
become less resilient.
Sasha (03:29):
Thanks, Lynn. I just thought it was really important
to also say that Peg wanted toshare her trauma history story
as part of the context of herlife, and while this podcast
isn't the platform for us todelve too deeply into that
history with her. We have doneso extensively in past
conversations with her.
(03:56):
Thank you so much for coming intoday, Peg. We really appreciate
it. Look, I think today, we justwant to hear from you a little
bit about your story. You've gota really incredible history, and
you've been through so much, andyou've overcome it with some
great supports. And we justthink it would be really
beneficial if everyone couldhear what it's been like and be
(04:17):
inspired by you in the same waythat we're inspired by you. So
would you like to maybe start byletting us know a little bit
about your history, and then wecan get into I guess what
brought you to us?
Peg (04:28):
Well, I made my first call at the age of nine to triple 000
because I was touched by myfather. That's very young, very
sad. My mother was dying inhospital, the cerebral
hemorrhage they removed. Therewas three blood clots on the
brain. They removed two. Theother one was too close to the
(04:50):
brain, so I had to look after mymother. From the age of nine, I
become her mother and my brotherat the age of seven. You got to
remember, back in 1969 there wasno Centrelink carers allowances
back then, so I had to make thebest money, the best way I
could. So I thought, how wellI'm nine year old, and I
(05:10):
developed quickly. I didn't looknine or 10 year old. So I
thought, now, you know, noCentrelink, no social security.
What am I going to do to lookafter my mother and my brother?
My father did a runner becausehe was scared to death, so I hit
the Cross and done what youcalled dirty dancing, and here I
am back again, 56 years later,still dialing triple 000.
Lynn (05:34):
So you grew up quite quickly?
Peg (05:37):
Yes, I did. Yes, I was nine years old. 1969.
Lynn (05:41):
But also, you took on the role of carer and provider.
Peg (05:44):
Yeah I did. I had to, because back then there was no
carers. Yeah, back then, mygrandmother used to call me
every day, every night. She knewI was going on, but she had 16
children of her own, and quiteoften we had the telephone on -
telephone line, which was agreat advantage, because back
then, a lot of people didn'thave that. Now, which we had
(06:06):
that, and my my grandmotherwould send - if I was crying,
and that - she would send anaunty down to pick us all up and
take us back to her house. Butwe had to come home eventually,
and I had to continue my life.You know, looking after my
mother and my brother. I didn'tgo to school from year three.
Lynn (06:29):
I can't imagine losing your childhood so young in life.
You became a carer, and in theprocess, lost your education.
Peg (06:36):
Yeah, like I never had - I'm not educated. Self taught to
read. But very good at sports.
Lynn (06:43):
And at what age did you then meet your husband? So you
had all that history of havingto be a carer, having to be a
provider, you know, lookingafter your family.
Peg (06:57):
The Star Hotel.
Lynn (06:58):
Okay, the Star Hotel?
Peg (07:01):
The famous Star Hotel.
Lynn (07:03):
Wow.
Peg (07:04):
Yeah, I know
Lynn (07:05):
Tell us - what's that story?
Peg (07:07):
That's where I met him. That's where he picked me up. I
was dancing on the bar back in1979. Yeah, he taught me to
read.
Lynn (07:16):
Ah okay, so he was a bit of a saviour, maybe at that
point?
Peg (07:21):
At that time, yeah, at that time, he was a saviour, yeah,
yeah.
Lynn (07:25):
Was your mum still alive at that point?
Peg (07:27):
Yes, yes, she, she lived right until 2017.
Lynn (07:30):
Ah, so you were, you remained her carer?
Peg (07:33):
Yeah I honoured her, yeah, I looked after her.
Lynn (07:37):
That shows a lot about your character.
Peg (07:40):
Yeah, I honoured my mother. She was a handful
Lynn (07:44):
In what way?
Peg (07:45):
In what way? Well, she had to have a lot of medication. She
was a child herself. I used tosee her argue with my children
over a packet of chips, right tothe extent of tearing them
apart. I wasn't allowed to visitmy mother at the hospital.
Lynn (08:02):
At the time when it first happened, you mean?
Peg (08:04):
Yeah when I was nine, back in 1969. I was too young, they
said.
Lynn (08:12):
Okay.
Peg (08:12):
So all I've been told is my mother had a cerebral
hemorrhage. I was there when shewas playing tennis. Okay, and it
was caused from high bloodpressure. But all I was told -
it's all I was told off myaunties, it was caused from the
pill, contraception of the pill.
Lynn (08:34):
And did she collapse on the field?
Peg (08:36):
Playing tennis. Very good tennis player.
Lynn (08:40):
So that would have been quite traumatic in itself, on
top of all the other traumasthat you experience in your
life.
Peg (08:46):
Yes, it's been horrible.
Lynn (08:48):
And I understand your husband was a very violent
person as well?
Peg (08:54):
Yes. Well, you know he was, yeah, he was a violent man.
Lynn (09:00):
Yeah. So Peg, you've always been a warrior, a
fighter?
Peg (09:03):
Yes, yes. It's just in the bloodline, I think.
Lynn (09:06):
Yeah. Shows a lot of strength, that resilience that
you have.
Peg (09:10):
Yes.
Lynn (09:11):
Yeah.
Sasha (09:17):
Lynn, can we talk a bit more about what resilience looks
like with our clients, it's notalways the same, is it?
Lynn (09:23):
Before we do that, I'd like to just say and explain
what resilience is. So it refersto our mental and emotional
ability to react and recoverfrom adversity. But it can take
another event like elder abuseor failing health or a
triggering incident for ourclients' resilience to diminish.
(09:48):
So I just want to touch on usingthe word resilience with our
clients. Psychiatrist Dr. BrucePerry is a leading researcher in
the field of trauma, and hetalks about resilience being a
transient state. Our clientsmight come to us seeming
resilient, strong, able tofunction, but added traumas and
(10:10):
stresses such as elder abuse candeteriorate someone's ability to
cope.
Sasha (10:16):
So I guess what you're saying is it's important that
we're really mindful of that,because the clients that are
coming to us are currentlyexperiencing a level of trauma
with elder abuse. They'reactively in a trauma state, and
that is what it could look like.There could be physical,
psychological, financial,emotional and sexual abuse.
(10:37):
Predominantly the perpetratorsof this abuse are family
members, typically an adultchild, which comes with quite a
complex dynamic in itself,because it involves family.
Lynn (10:47):
That's right, Sasha. Elder abuse is a complex issue in our
society that is multi-layeredand includes compounding issues
like trauma and family dynamics.It is also underpinned by
societal views on aging, thatincludes the thought that older
people have diminished capacityand family know what's best for
(11:08):
them.
Sasha (11:09):
Absolutely, Lynn. We often say that elder abuse has
all the components of domesticviolence with the added
complexities that come withaging, including cognitive
decline, deteriorating physicalhealth, reliance on others for
care, and social isolation. Sowe're always really mindful of
that when interacting with ourclients.
Lynn (11:33):
So tell us a bit more about your son. You have spoken
previously to us about hishistory of drug use. Do you want
to share more about what thatexperience was like?
Peg (11:45):
I was mortified. It was, it was - broke my heart. Because I
just thought now, who done that?Who would have enticed this
little educated boy with aChristian education? What
happened?
Lynn (12:03):
Peg would like to now share a poem that she has
written about her son'sexperience with drugs, which
cuts to the heart of theexperiences that she has faced
with him and what's led her toour service. Peg has pre
recorded this on her phoneso youwill hear a difference in the
recording.
Peg (12:26):
I destroy homes. I tear families apart. I'll take your
children, and that's just thestart. I'm more costly than
diamonds, more precious thangold. The sorrow I bring is a
sight to behold. If you need me,remember, I'm easy to find. I
(12:49):
live around you in schools andin town. I live with the rich. I
live with the poor. I even livedown the street and maybe next
door. I'm made in the lab, butnot how you think I can even be
made under a kitchen sink. In awardrobe, even in the bush, in a
(13:14):
line locker. If this scares youto death, well, it certainly
should. I have many names, butthere's one you know best. I'm
sure you've heard of me. My nameis Crystal Meth. My power is
awesome. Try me, you'll see. Butif you do, you may never break
(13:38):
free. Just try me once, and Imight let you go, but try me
twice, and I'll own your bodyand soul. Amen.
I nearly started crying thenjust listening it because it's
(14:01):
so true. And I wrote a lot morethan that, but I thought that's
enough, because I had no ideathat two decades ago that my son
was on that.
Sasha (14:17):
And did his behavior change towards you? What was
that like?
Peg (14:20):
Controlling. Especially when his father died, he wanted
to take his role and wanted totake over. Thought it was his
property.
Sasha (14:31):
Your home?
Peg (14:31):
Yeah, he thought it was all going to be his. He even tried
to kick myself and my daughtersout of my own house. I had a
solicitor call me and say, "I'vejust had your son here demanding
that I take on a case to kickyou out your own home." So he
showed the computer to my sonand said, "you can see your
(14:56):
father's name's nowhere on thistitle." So that's where it all
came from. He thought he wouldjust take over where daddy left,
but that wasn't going to be thecase. That's when I just got
harder and fight. Just wasfighting and fighting for it,
yeah, and protecting mydaughters. But he was, he had
(15:16):
all intentions of just kickingme out of my property and my
daughters.
Sasha (15:21):
So once he realised he couldn't do that, what happened
then?
Peg (15:28):
What happened? Then? Well, he just kept indulging, and then
he got in trouble with thepolice, yep. And then was, went
away in prison, yeah, nine yearsmaximum. It's heavy stuff. And
then begged me, after all that,to help him. So I mortgaged my
(15:49):
house. It cost me over $60,000.
Sasha (16:00):
We see this a lot, don't we, Lynn? That constant struggle
our clients face between helpingtheir children and also wanting
to protect their own needs andfeel safe.
Lynn (16:09):
Yeah, Sasha, it's a real tough one. The issue is so multi
layered, because we're workingwith parents and children, where
children are often theperpetrators of the violence.
And unlike marriage, you can'tdivorce your children.
Sasha (16:26):
Well that's it. You can't always just walk away and not
look back. And often, ourclients, despite the abuse, they
don't want to do that anyway.They want to maintain a
relationship most of the time,which is what makes it so hard.
Lynn (16:38):
That's right, Sasha. You know, a lot of clients children
have complex trauma historiesthemselves. Many of them have
mental illness or drug andalcohol issues or a disability
like an acquired brain injury,for which their parents feel a
responsibility to care for them.They worry about who will care
for them if they don't. And inPeg's situation, she hoped that
(17:01):
things would change, and that'swhy she wanted to help him.
Sasha (17:04):
Yeah, it really is a regular theme that we see where
clients will come to us in theseabusive situations, but rather
than seeking help forthemselves, they often plead
with us to help their children,seeing this as the resolution to
their problem. If they can gettheir children the help that
they need, then maybe the abusewill stop and their relationship
can improve.
(17:30):
After all that you still stillhelped him?
Peg (17:33):
I still helped him. Where I was saying to, to my daughters,
"no he done the crime, do thetime." "Oh no, no, you should
help him." I had no idea that itwas going to cost that much. I
had to borrow $60,000 - mortgagemy house - to help him. And
(17:53):
after five years, he got out. Idid not give any approval of him
come to come to my property. Butback in 2017 that's where it
came to. And I had been living ahorrible life - the past, since
2017 till now, from thathorrible poem that I've written.
(18:16):
I had to move out my ownproperty. My daughter's left.
Started families of their own.And that just left me to put up
and watch it all go down.
Sasha (18:26):
So he was bailed to your address?
Peg (18:30):
Yeah, well, I didn't even get any - I cannot remember even
saying yes or getting a letteror the police coming. I can't
remember that. It just happened.I knew he was getting out, yeah,
but there was no questions askedif he was allowed to come there.
And I thought that's theprocedure. I've never been in
(18:51):
gaol myself. Okay, I've neverdone crime, but that's where he
came to, my address.
Sasha (19:00):
So what happened once he moved in? Can you talk to us a
little bit about how thingschange and what it was like for
you?
Peg (19:08):
Well he moved in, of course. I had my family there,
and I had a nice cake and lovelydinner and everything for him.
Welcome him back with balloonsand everything, like a party,
you know. You've just done fiveyears in maximum. I mean,
'Welcome home,' you know. But hewas on parole for four years
after that, so he had to reportevery day. So mummy had to drive
(19:30):
him there. Mummy did that. Hehad to apply for his license
again, his truck license. Mummydid all that as well. Mummy paid
for all that as well. Mummy dideverything for him. I honoured
him. And he just got back ontothat, that horrible poem.
Sasha (19:47):
Yeah, back onto the drugs?
Peg (19:49):
Yep but I've been told that all the money that I was giving
him - inmates called inmates tobuy Buy Ups. It's called Buy
Ups. I was putting in $100 aweek, and I said, that's a lot
of money. I was going andvisiting him. I think I went to
(20:09):
14 gaols to visit him, and thevendoring machines and
everything I had - that all costmoney as well. When you're at
the visiting - nothing is forfree.
Sasha (20:20):
Yeah.
Peg (20:21):
I thought, you know, like, this is a lot of money. You
know, I'm only on the pension,$100 a week. You already owe me
over $60,000 I'm going to cutthat back to 50. I'm doing the
best I can, you know. It's justbeen horrific, and I just want
it all to stop.
Sasha (20:37):
Yeah, of course. So when, um, when did it change once he
moved in? When did his behaviorstart to shift towards you? Was
it immediate?
Peg (20:46):
Yeah.
Sasha (20:47):
Okay.
Peg (20:48):
Yeah, it was immediate. Took control immediately.
Sasha (20:50):
And what sort of things was he doing, like taking
control of your money, or -
Peg (20:55):
Trying to, yeah, yeah, trying to. Yeah, yeah, taking
control of the whole house,having lots of his friends
coming around, having sessionsin his room, the crack, which is
out the glass pipe in his room,he'd lock it all up. I couldn't
(21:15):
get it was a big room, like thishuge. It all started from that.
He was just back on it again. Sohe never got off it. Yeah, he
never got off it.
Sasha (21:29):
And at what point did you, did he kind of force you
out of the house?
Peg (21:34):
Yeah I left. I walked out. I couldn't say I asthmatic. I
couldn't stand the smell of it.People say it doesn't smell, but
I'm telling you, it does. Mywhole house just melted
chemicals.
Sasha (21:45):
Yeah, so you felt like you couldn't stay?
Peg (21:47):
No, it was best for me, as an asthmatic to get out of
there.
Sasha (21:51):
Yeah.
Peg (21:51):
So I went out to my studio. I've got a studio. I even had to
pee in a bucket. But it wasbetter for my health and my
asthma ,because I'm highasthmatic, to get out of there,
and I just watched it all godown. So it was horrible. Was
heartbreaking. He had all theluxuries, and I was paying all
(22:13):
the bills, you know, the rates,the tank water, all the
electricity bills, all the food,watching people just coming and
going to my property that Ididn't invite.
Sasha (22:32):
So I think we need to highlight at this moment that
financial abuse can also looklike what Peg is talking about
here. It doesn't have to looklike thousands of dollars
disappearing from bank accountsor money taken out of your
wallet, ATM cards being stolen.It can look different.
Lynn (22:48):
Exactly, you know, it can look like children not
contributing to household bills,then moving back in, adding to
your financial burden andleaving you with all the bills
while they live rent free. Or inPeg's case, her son was
constantly knocking on her doorand demanding money so that he
(23:10):
could get drugs. Now, Sasha,tell me if someone presented to
usexperiencing elder abuse inthis more passive way, what sort
of remedies can we use?
Sasha (23:23):
Well, Lynn, we do see this a lot. Older people may not
necessarily notice at the timethat their money begins to go
missing. So they come to usfeeling uncertain about what's
happening in their accounts. Wetalk to them about safeguarding
their finances, about safetyplanning. If they feel like
money is missing from theiraccounts or they're not too
sure, we'll often start byrequesting documents from their
(23:45):
bank and just looking into theiraccounts. For them, what I tend
to look for is irregularspending patterns, transactions
that they can't really explain.Essentially, just red flags that
are signs of financial abuse,depending on the nature of
what's happened and how we willthen investigate to see whether
the bank was at fault in notsafeguarding the account from
(24:06):
the fraud or alerting the olderperson. We've had instances
where we've actually been ableto get the bank to acknowledge
fault and return money.
Lynn (24:21):
Was he verbally abusive to you? Would he yell and was he -
?
Peg (24:27):
He's not very loud, but he would come and ask, and I'd say,
I haven't got any then he wouldgo back into the big house and
punch the Smart TV. I used tohave a big Smart TV. I used to.
Lynn (24:40):
Yeah.
Peg (24:41):
Two of them. Gone.
Lynn (24:43):
So a lot of intimidation, then?
Peg (24:45):
A lot of intimidation. A lot of intimidation, and I'd be
- I wouldn't open my screendoor.
Lynn (24:52):
Yeah.
Peg (24:53):
I would just be talking to him from my studio. I wouldn't
let him in.
Lynn (24:56):
Yeah, tell me about the effects of that level of abuse
on you, physically andemotionally. What did that do to
you?
Peg (25:05):
Well, I had a panic attack. Start cying all the time, I'd be
nervous, yeah.
Lynn (25:12):
So your mental health was obviously affected?
Peg (25:15):
All I did was sleep so tired.
Lynn (25:18):
So you had no energy left. Did you experience any other
health concern? I know you hadsurgery during this difficult
time?
Peg (25:26):
Yes. Well, I had bowel cancer last year. I couldn't
walk for five months, but I'm onmedication now for the rest of
my life. Which is, which isgood, but, yeah, all this is all
on just all I can say is I'mglad that I got out of that
(25:47):
house. It was just hard work. Itwas just hard work. What does
someone have to die? You know,or take, you know, matters into
their own hands? Like back inthe day. That's how I felt. That
was very hard work. This is notChicago back in 1920 you know.
Lynn (26:16):
I was wanting Peg to speak about the way her physical and
mental health deteriorated overthis time, because people don't
always consider the way in whichabuse impacts us physically and
psychologically.
Sasha (26:30):
Yeah, we usually see a lot of people experiencing
mental health issues, peoplecoming in and out of hospital,
anxiety, panic attacks, fatigue.
Lynn (26:40):
Absolutely, Sasha. Actually, there's a lot of work
that's been done on the impactsof abuse on a person's mental
health and health in general.Often, one of the first signs
that person is experiencingelder abuse will be a shift in
mood or lack of drive in thethings that were previously
enjoyable. We may also notice aloss of appetite or the person
(27:02):
becoming withdrawn from familyand friends. Many of our clients
experience anxiety, depressionand suicidal ideation as a
direct result of the impact ofabuse.
Sasha (27:19):
And you mentioned that he was damaging property and
stealing things as well. Can youtalk to us a little bit about
that?
Peg (27:26):
Yeah, I certainly can. Well, that was the last straw.
Was when I am I went down to mygarage and I thought - I
wasshocked, where are all mymags and wheels. All gone. Just
like that. That was the laststraw. The next day, I didn't
(27:48):
phone triple 000 - the next day,because I wouldn't enable him
with $400, at midnight, he tookmy Harley, my husband's Harley,
well, it's my Harley Davidson,Harley Davidson out, which I
have not registered since thedeath of my husband. Took my
Harley Davidson out up midnight.I mean midnight, that is not
good. I'm only in a village.It's disrespectful. And did
(28:12):
burnouts on it. Come back thenext morning, seven o'clock and
I went, "What have you done tomy Harley? You had no right to
take my possessions." It's noteven registered. It's not
insured, still in my name fromyears ago, but it's all because
I would not enable him. Yeah,I'd had enough. So that was the
(28:35):
last straw. I dialed triple 000because I was fed up with the
intimidation, the verbal abuse,enabling, the threats and
isolation.
Sasha (28:50):
What happened then?
Peg (28:51):
What happened then? Action begun. I went down to the police
station, and hours it tookbecause I didn't look like I'd
been abused. I had no blood orbeen assaulted, just mentally.
Was hard for me to get help. Andthen I got on to elderly abuse.
I made the call with elderlyabuse, which I had to find
(29:14):
online, and that's when I madethe call. And I've been getting
professional help since then.And the domestic violence, what
they call the Women's Advocacy Igot all professional help.
Sasha (29:28):
Just to clarify here, when Peg says "elderly abuse",
she is referring to our service,the Elder Abuse Service. You can
contact us on 4324 5611. Andwhen Peg talks about contacting
triple 000, this is a responseshe's had her whole life, and
(29:49):
it's her way of saying that youneed to reach out for help. In
this instance, the police,particularly an Age Crime
Prevention Officer, directed Pegto our service, which is the
right initial point of contactfor these types of matters.
Because we are client focused,we are able to provide the
advocacy and social supportrequired to help clients' voices
be heard and assist them inunderstanding their options and
(30:11):
their rights.
Lynn (30:20):
You said you went to the police station. What sort of
happened there?
Peg (30:23):
Well, I went to the front desk and I said, "my son's just
threatened to burn my house downwith me in it." So then he said
to me, "you go over to thecourt," to the courthouse. And
my girlfriend and I walked overthere and had to get us a
register for help. I don't knowwhere this senior constable was.
She was a godsend. She wassomewhere in that courtroom. She
(30:47):
come tap me on the shoulder,"call me, you need help."
Lynn (30:51):
Right, that's where it started. So she's the Age Crime
Prevention Officer who tappedyou on the shoulder and said,
"here."
Peg (30:59):
She said, "call me." And then I called her the next day
because I was exhausted. Mygirlfriend and I are exhausted.
And the next morning, I calledher, and then she just kept
calling me, and I was justgetting worse and worse, just
seeing. It just wasn't stopping.
Lynn (31:14):
Tell us what happened when you saw the constable, the Age
Crime Prevention officer, andyou went and wrote a letter with
support from your friend. Isthat right?
Peg (31:25):
Yeah, yes, I got a letter asking him to evacuate the
property within 21 days. Thepolice told me to do that. Well,
that didn't happen. He had nointentions of doing that. So I
had to ring triple 000 again.And then when he went out, and I
thought, well, tomorrow, you'vegot to be out of there. So of
course, I handwrote another oneand put it under his door. Under
(31:50):
the door. You've got to be outof his property. Off my property
- it's 21 days tomorrow. And hehad no intentions of getting
out.
Sasha (31:59):
And that's when you reached out to us.
Peg (32:01):
Yes.
Sasha (32:01):
Yeah. So that letter you're talking about is a Notice
to Vacate, and essentially whatit does is you're as the owner
of the property. You're tellinghim he no longer has the right
to be there, and if he stayspast the amount of time that
you've given him, he'strespassing.
Peg (32:20):
Yes.
Sasha (32:21):
Yeah. So that's when we kind of jumped in and tried to
help speak with the police onyour behalf to make sure they
went over there to move him out.Wasn't a smooth process, though,
was it?
Peg (32:33):
It was very hard work, Sasha, it was. Would have took
you four months to get thatorder because I didn't look
physically abused. They weren'thelping.
Lynn (32:53):
For many of our clients, Sasha, it takes quite a bit to
get to a point where our clientsare ready to take that step to
get their children out of theirhome. So what are the legal
options for getting adultchildren out of the house? You
mentioned a Notice to Vacate.What does that mean?
Sasha (33:12):
So essentially, as the owner or primary occupier of
your home, you've got the legalright to ask anyone to leave. If
you don't want someone there,they can't be there. I'm talking
specifically in these situationswhere the child isn't a tenant,
they're not paying any rent,they're simply living there and
not contributing to thehousehold. They have no legal
(33:34):
right to be in the home, even ifthey've lived there their whole
life. It doesn't mean that theycan stay and I think that's what
a lot of older people andyounger people don't realise. So
we utilise a legislation calledthe Enclosed Lands Act. That's a
really ancient piece oflegislation that originally was
used to deal with cattle andsheep, but more recently, it's
(33:56):
used to move on people loiteringon private property, such as
shopping centres and schools.Section 4 of that legislation
gives you the right to asksomeone to leave your home, and
if they don't, it creates acivil trespass, essentially
meaning that they will betrespassing if they stay.
Section 6 of that legislationthen gives the police the power
(34:16):
to come and move them on. Sowhen we have a situation like
this where an older person wantstheir adult child or family
member or friend out of thehouse, we issue this Notice to
Vacate letter and give them aperiod of time of the older
persons choosing to leave, andwe then provide a copy of that
letter to the police, and we'lladvocate for the older person
(34:36):
with the police to ensure thatif that person hasn't left by
the date, then the police willcome and move them on.
Lynn (34:42):
That sounds like a really empowering process for our
clients to go through. I canimagine that some people may get
worried about an increase ofabuse if they give a letter of
eviction to their abusive child.If these concerns arise and a
safety plan made with the socialworker does not help the client
with their concerns, what otheroptions do people have?
Sasha (35:06):
Yeah look in instances where there has been violence or
threats of violence, or theolder person is feeling
particularly unsafe and at riskwith the person in their home.
In those instances, we talk tothem about taking out an
Apprehended Domestic ViolenceOrder with the police and asking
for exclusion orders to preventthe adult child from being able
(35:27):
to enter the home and live inthe home. In Peg's, instance,
while we did initially tryissuing the Notice to Vacate,
her situation was, in fact,serious enough that we thought
it necessary to advocate withthe police to show the need for
an ADVO with exclusion orders.While Peg did have an AVO it
didn't have those ordersattached, and we were able to
(35:49):
explain additional instances ofabuse to the Age Crime
Prevention officer, which led tous supporting Peg to make a
revised statement to the policeand a new ADVO being issued.
So then we went a differentapproach, and we spoke with the
(36:15):
police and tried to get aApprehended Violence Order. Do
you want to talk to us a littlebit about how that process was
for you?
Peg (36:25):
It was hard work. Yeah, was really hard work, because all I
kept doing was having the policecome to my property.
Sasha (36:32):
Yeah.
Peg (36:33):
And they kept telling me, No, they can't. I'm not eligible
for it.
Sasha (36:38):
Yeah. So I guess from our perspective, you know, you were
so strong through all of this,but it was a really difficult
process. And, you know, I thinkthere were points where you kind
of questioned why it was sohard. And, you know, it had
taken you so long to get to thepoint where you were ready to
(36:59):
take a stand, that it wasprobably a bit frustrating that
it was taking so long to kind ofget the outcome you wanted. But
you didn't give up, did you?
Peg (37:09):
No, I didn't give up, but I think I honestly feel like he
was trying. This is how I felt,trying to make me kill myself,
suicide. That's how I felt. Andnobody helped. There was no
help, and with all theantidepressants I was on, which
(37:30):
was a lot, I did a lot ofsleeping, and I just thought,
well, this is going to be life.I'm done. I've just had enough.
I just kept fighting.
Sasha (37:42):
Yeah well, we did get there. We got got enough there
for the AVO, and then Iunderstand you went and with the
information I provided, you wentdown to the police station and
gave another statement.
Peg (37:57):
Yes, I did, yes, yeah, she was good, yeah.
Sasha (38:00):
There for a few hours, but got it in.
Peg (38:02):
Yeah.
Sasha (38:03):
And then they issued the AVO with exclusion orders, which
meant that he had to leave theproperty. So then when they went
out to try to issue it with him,I understand that took a little
bit of time as well, because hewas evading the police for a
bit.
Peg (38:18):
It was terrible, because I'm I'm at out outside, living
in my studio, and the policehave arrived, so I've had to get
go down, unchained and unboltlock the gates, and there was
like two police cars, fourpolice officers and and I took
them into the house, and he'slocked himself in the bedroom,
(38:39):
and, you know, like, wouldn'tcome out and talk to them, and
they were doing their job as apolice officer, protecting. They
told me to go. I just took theminto the house. They said,"go."
So I went out, and they didtheir job, and bang, bang, bang.
Eventually got him to open thedoor. He was in there off his
head, even when he opened thedoors, the heap of smoke come
(39:03):
out. And then he startedverbally abusing them. But the
police officers were verystrong, because you'd had given
them the order that he was toget out, and it was hard work,
but he was calling them names,and I was outside hiding in the
studio. It was just terrible.You know, I didn't even ask for
(39:24):
him to come and live with me.
Lynn (39:26):
Peg, can you tell me like I'm interested, and I think
people would be interested tosort of know the about the
strength that you had to be ableto do this, because this is,
this is your son, right?
Peg (39:39):
Oh it was hard.
Lynn (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah, you raised him. You've loved him, you know,
you have. You want the best foryour children. You know, as
parents, we want to doeverything that we can to
support and love our kids. Youremortgage your home to be able
to bail him and in and help himout, and then he comes to your
(40:03):
home and you hope you. It stillsounds like you were hoping for
a good outcome for him to beable to change things around,
and obviously that wasn'tpossible for him.
Peg (40:16):
Absolutely not.
Lynn (40:18):
How do you as a parent sort of go, "look, I've, I've
loved this child, but now I needand I still love" you know it,
the love doesn't go away, I'msure, but there's a strength
that you need to to get fromyourself to be able to go "I
can't, as much as I love thisperson, I can't deal with being
(40:46):
hurt and being abused like thisevery day from my child." How do
you get to that point? Because alot of people that we talk to
okay really struggle with that.To be able to sort of go, you
know, I love this child, I wantto look after them, I want the
best for them, but I'm going toleave them here, even though
(41:10):
they're abusing me as to mydetriment, that I will put up
with being abused. So how didyou find that strength? Where
did that come from?
Peg (41:23):
Inner strength and and once you start hurting or doing
anything or to my possessions,that was the last straw, because
I'd worked hard all, from blood,sweat and tears, all my life.
Lynn (41:35):
And I think that's what a lot of people you know, there
might come a time where it'slike, this is this is the line
in
Peg (41:44):
It was when you touch my possessions
Lynn (41:49):
and the stuff that you've worked really hard for, as you
said.
Peg (41:52):
The TVs, I accepted the threats and the verbal abuse.
Lynn (41:56):
Yeah
Peg (41:57):
Trying to burn the house down
Lynn (41:59):
Yeah
Peg (41:59):
Eating my food. I'm paying for all your bills.
Lynn (42:02):
I think I heard you say once as well that, you know,
"this isn't my little boyanymore."
Peg (42:09):
He's a monster. Yeah, that was not the little boy. I've got
a photo of him, but that was nothow I brought him up.
Lynn (42:16):
Yeah.
Peg (42:17):
It's the crystal meth. They, everybody said to me,
"it's the drugs" and I got fedup with it.
Lynn (42:23):
Yeah.
Peg (42:24):
I said, "well, you should only indulge in moderation" in
anything, you have to be incontrol of yourself. You must be
in control.
Lynn (42:42):
Yeah, it taught you that resilience.
Peg (42:45):
Yeah, exactly. You've just got to have the inner strength
and you've just got to fight,because there's no way I was
going to kill myself or let himor anybody harm me in any way,
and have my possessions or myproperty that I'd work hard all
my life for which I'm stillpaying off now.
Lynn (43:08):
It is a great message Peg - reminding people that these
are the things you worked hardfor, and no one has a right to
damage or take them from you.Now I want to ask you a question
based on something that you havespoken about before. I recall
you telling us that in the past,you have reached out to friends
(43:31):
about what you were goingthrough and how you came to
realise that talking to friendsis not always enough.
Peg (43:38):
No, look, I did speak out to my friends, yeah, but they
haven't experienced it. Theyhaven't lived through it, you
know, and they don't know how tojust sit there and be quiet and
What would you say to otherolder people who are going
listen. I'm trying to unloadhere. It's called build up. I've
(43:59):
only made space. It will nevergo away. It will never go away
in my subconscious. I just makespace for all this. It never,
ever goes away. You just makespace for it. But you know, no
good talking to your neighbor oryour girlfriend, and that's why
I contacted elderly abuse,because that's their job.
(44:23):
They're professionals. They'rethere to help you, and you have
to dial triple 000 and stayonline. That is your help.
through a similar experienceright now and don't feel like
they can speak up or reach outfor help?
Wow, I'll pray for them. Butthey have to dial triple 000 and
(44:44):
they have to get help. Elderlyabuse - because they're
professionals, they will helpyou.
Sasha (44:50):
What if they feel embarrassed or feel like it's
their fault or they can't, theyshouldn't? What would you tell
them?
Peg (44:59):
They shouldn't feel like that. They tried, they did the
best they could. There'ssupport. You must pick up the
phone and attend allappointments. And follow all
instructions and pick up thatphone when it's got no caller
ID. You must answer the phone.Don't hide under the bed, go
behind the lounge, answer thatphone. It'll come up no caller
(45:22):
ID.
Sasha (45:24):
And how do you feel now that you did get help? How have
things changed for you?
Peg (45:29):
Oh, better now. I know. I just keep ringing. I just keep
ringing back up. Well just keepringing the police. Just keep
keep ringing people that I knowthat are professional that will
help me. I'll fight till theend.
Sasha (45:43):
But you know, you've made that stand. You spent many
years, kind of living with himthere, and you realised enough
was enough. You did what you hadto do.
Peg (45:53):
and I'll fight to the end.
Sasha (45:55):
Yeah, should be really proud of yourself.
Peg (45:57):
Yeah. And I'm so fit. I can run 10ks in two hours.
Sasha (46:01):
Amazing. Things feel better for you now that he's out
Peg (46:05):
Oh yeah, the headaches gone. I'm still paranoid, still
of the picture?
very paranoid.
Sasha (46:13):
You've been through a lot.
Peg (46:14):
Yeah, I'm still chaining and padlocking the gates, which
I probably will do to the day ordie. That's what it's done to
me. It's scarred me for life,like I said before, it will
never go away. I just make spacefor it. I've worked hard all my
life, and no way I'm giving up.
Sasha (46:34):
And for people out there who think that it couldn't
possibly be happening to anyoneelse, that it's only happening
in their home, what would youtell them?
Peg (46:42):
You've just got to give it up. You just got to stop
enabling. Think of yourself.
Sasha (46:49):
It's a great message.
Peg (46:50):
It is. You've got to think of yourself, because they don't.
Sasha (46:57):
Yeah, it's a strong message there in protecting
yourself and and reaching outfor help.
Peg (47:02):
You're worth it.
Sasha (47:03):
You are worth it.
Peg (47:04):
You're worth it. You're worth it.
Sasha (47:08):
Absolutely.
Peg (47:09):
You're worth it.
Sasha (47:13):
It's been really beautiful, I guess, to see the
way that you've just, yeah, thechange from the first time we
met you to now you're just fullof all this life and confidence.
And it's been a really kind ofnatural and, yeah, just
beautiful progression to see theway that you've really come into
yourself, and the way they kindof talking and sitting and just
(47:36):
smiling right now is reallylovely. So thank you.
Peg (47:40):
And I will help anyone in need, out of love, out of love.
Lynn (47:45):
I know you've been a strong advocate recently as
well, and you've led the march -
Peg (47:50):
Yes.
Lynn (47:50):
In your local area where you live, for domestic violence
walk in the marches. So itsounds like, you know, having
all that extra support, reachingout to the different services
that you've reached out to, andbeing in touch with them has,
you know, also fueled thatalready natural resilience that
(48:11):
you had. And you know now you'reyou're empowered, and empowering
others in what you're doing heretoday, and being out in those
marches and talking to peopleabout your experience is just
profound.
Peg (48:29):
Well being the leader of the pack. Don't forget to put
that leader of the pack at theInternational Women's week - my
sign I did myself, not afraid.Not afraid. That's what I had.
I'm not afraid. They're allbehind me. I was the leader of
(48:50):
the pack, of them all, yeah,yeah. And you know it's just how
it was. And I'm just full of itnow, and I'll fight to the end,
for anyone in need, for anywoman, any child, anyone in
need, I just will not tolerateit anymore.
Sasha (49:05):
I guess I just wanted to know before we wrap up, was
there any part of the processthat worked particularly well
for you? Like, was thereanything that was like, "yep,
this is it. This is what'sworking for me. I'm so happy I
reached out." Was there anypoint for you that made that
stand out for you?
Peg (49:25):
Apart from dialing triple 000 and then finding elderly
abuse. And they said to me,"there's one in Newcastle." I
said,"Where's the head office?"That's where I reached out to
"I'll do the drive." "Yeah, youdon't have to do" I said, "Yes,
I will. I don't want to dealwith some more fries. Where's
the head office?" Straight tothe top. You just have to have
(49:51):
the guts and courage. Beruthless and no filter, I guess.
I can remember coming down hereyelling at ya's. I was totally
out of control. I felt better,but now I can actually sit down.
Calmer now.
Sasha (50:06):
Yeah.
Peg (50:08):
I'm not even crying, which is good, yeah, make the call.
That's all triple 000, elderlyabuse, DV, Open Arms. You know,
with the army, I was in that aswell, my father, they're all
help. They're all professionalhelp that will help you.
Sasha (50:29):
Yeah. All right. Well, is there anything else you wanted
to share with us? Any othermessage you want to get out and
you feel like you've covered itall?
Peg (50:39):
Get professional help. Encourage others.
Sasha (50:44):
Well, I'm so glad that you made that drive down to meet
with us that day. Amazinginspiration.
Peg (50:51):
Thank you. I hope I help some others, and if they don't,
if they can't speak, give us acall, I'll speak on their
behalf.
Sasha (51:00):
I hope you got something out of today too.
Peg (51:03):
Yeah, I have. I haven't even shed a tear yet.
Sasha (51:06):
Yeah.
Peg (51:07):
Which is good. So that's how strong I am.
Sasha (51:10):
Yeah.
Peg (51:11):
Now. Before - I'd cry all the time, aw poor me, poor me,
poor me. But no, not now, yeah,I'll fight to the end.
Sasha (51:24):
Thank you so much, Peg for sharing your story with us
today. I hope that other peoplehave been able to take something
from this, and if you or anyonethat you know is experiencing or
at risk of elder abuse, andanything that we've said today
might resonate, please don'thesitate to reach out to us and
know that support is available,even if you just want that
(51:48):
initial conversation to knowyour options, we are more than
happy to chat with you and getyou to a point where you might
be ready to take that next step.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.