This is the first episode in our podcast series exploring domestic violence in Australia. We will explore the legal issues people experience, the services available to provide support and speak to a wide range of people working in the sector.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which this episode was made and pay our respects to Elders past and present.
In this first episode, Pauline from the Community Legal Education Branch speaks with Bev Lazarou, who works in Legal Aid NSW’s Women’s Domestic Violence Court Advocacy Program. Bev was recently named NSW Public Servant of the Year at the 2024 NSW Premier’s Awards for the work she does and has done for many years.
There is useful information in this episode about how community workers can support people who are experiencing domestic and family violence.
Links to support services for people experiencing domestic and family violence are below.
- 1800 RESPECT 1800 737 732 – a free and confidential national counselling service for sexual assault and domestic and family violence. www.1800respect.org.au
- 1800 656 463 NSW Domestic Violence Line–free, confidential counselling and referrals for women experiencing domestic and family violence.
- 1800 424 017 for anyone who has experienced sexual assault, recently or in the past, also for family members professionals and others impacted.
- 1800 943 539 – 24/7 sexual, domestic and family violence helpline for anyone whose life has been impacted by domestic or family violence.
- 1800 385 578 - Full Stop Australia – provides counselling for people whose lives have been impacted by violence and abuse. www.fullstop.org.au
- 1800 211 028 – 24/7 for adult survivors of childhood institutional sexual abuse. Helping anyone accessing the Redress scheme or alternative compensation.
- 13 92 76 – 13 YARN – 24/7 support for mob feeling overwhelmed or having difficulty coping. www.13yarn.org.au
- Well Mob - www.wellmob.org.au social, emotional and cultural wellbeing online resources for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
- 1800 497 212 – A free, confidential service available 24/7 for anyone from the LGBTQI+ community whose life has been impacted by sexual, domestic and/or family violence.
- Say it out loud - www.sayitoutloud.org.au a national service for LGBTQ+ communities and service professionals working with people who have experienced sexual, domestic and/or family violence
- 1300 766 491 – 7 days pw service for anyone in Australia whose life has been impacted by men’s use of violence or abusive behaviours.
Useful websites:
Our Watch | Quick facts about violence against women
Domestic Violence Prevention Centre: support and resources
https://www.respect.gov.au
Family and domestic violence - Services Australia
The UTS evaluation of the WDVCAS Hearing Support Pilot is available on the UTS website on the link below:
OPUS at UTS: Evaluation of the WDVCAS Hearing Support Pilot - Open Publications of UTS Scholars
To find out more information about what we talked about in this episode –
information provided in thisepisode is correct at the time
of recording and should beregarded as information only and
not legal advice. Please see ourshow notes for a breakdown of
the episode along withinformation and links to
resources mentioned throughout'Til the violence ends will be
an ongoing series for communityand support workers to gain
(00:46):
insight from experts found indomestic family and sexual
violence services. We will covera different topic each episode,
and will speak with specialistguests on that topic who are
working towards eliminatingdomestic violence in all its
forms through their work. Ourguests continue to shine a
community light on this ongoingcrisis.
These episodes may containdetails of violence, so listener
(01:09):
discretion is strongly advised.For our first episode, we are
starting with program and policyright here in legal aid New
South Wales, and our guest isBev Lazarou from the Women's
Domestic Violence Court AdvocacyProgram or WDVCAP, and what role
this team plays in supportingthe numerous WDVCASs, which is
the Women's Domestic ViolenceCourt Advocacy Service
(01:31):
throughout New South Wales.Thanks for joining us today,
Bev, it's a pleasure to haveyou.
Bev Lazarou (01:36):
Thank you so much.
Really happy to be here.
Pauline (01:40):
Thank you, Bev. I've
briefly mentioned in the
introduction how the WDVCAP is aprogram policy, part of Legal
Aid that supports the WDVCAS,which is the court advocacy
services throughout New SouthWales. Can you please expand on
that and just talk to us alittle bit about your role in
(02:02):
that and the role of Legal Aidin general.
Bev Lazarou (02:04):
Thanks Pauline,
happy to do that. The program
consists of 27 WDVCASs, that isthe women's domestic violence
court advocacy services acrossthe state. And then we the unit
as in the Women's DomesticViolence Court Advocacy Program
(02:24):
sit within Legal Aid and provideoversight for those 27 services
across New South Wales.
The services cover every town,every local court in New South
Wales that deals with domesticand family violence. It started
in 1996 so well embedded in thesystem now and extremely well
(02:51):
known throughout the sector andthroughout the judicial area,
with police who we work hand inhand with in in supporting women
and children who are goingthrough this process.
But in 1996 when it started, wereally only did court work as in
supporting women and children atcourt who were applying for
(03:15):
apprehended violence ordersrelated charge matters in in
regard to the domestic violencethat they were experiencing, and
that was really the extent ofit. It was pretty short and
sharp in terms of the contactand the support and liaison that
was offered. We supported themthrough that court process and
then made referrals out fortheir ongoing social and welfare
(03:38):
needs. But of course, in thelast very many years, the
program has expandedsignificantly.
We do so much more work thatI'll talk about shortly, but the
unit at Legal Aid oversees theservices, as I said, provides
that program management in termsof the funding. We have two
(04:00):
teams within the unit, thepolicy team and the mentoring
team, which I manage. And thepolicy team does what you would
expect, I suppose, overseeingthe contracts, policies and
procedures, liaising withservice providers, because
WDVCAS workers are employed byservice providers in the field.
(04:25):
They're not employed by us or bythe organization. We provide
that funding to those serviceproviders to then provide that
service in their local areas.So,
Pauline (04:36):
So sorry, sorry, Bev.
So does that mean Legal Aid
plays the role of like, what wewould call an auspicing body in
that respect?
Bev Lazarou (04:45):
Yeah we're the
funding body I suppose you'd
say, where that funding ispassed down through Treasury to
DcJ, and we oversee thoseservices and ensure that the
fundings are, you know, spent inthe way that it's supposed to,
in regard to the contracts thatwe have with those
organizations. A lot ofdifferent organizations across
(05:07):
the state are the serviceproviders from Community Legal
centres, family supportservices, some of the bigger
charities, like Catholic care,and there are a few WDVCASs that
are independently incorporatedand have their own boards, but
they still all work under thesame sort of contracts and
policies and procedures. Like wewant to drive that consistent
(05:30):
service provision across thestate.
So the policy team also feedinto law reform issues and
working with other areas ofLegal Aid in that regard as
well. They've currently beenlooking at the changes that are
to be made to the domesticviolence safety assessment tool,
(05:51):
which is a common assessmenttool that police use in the
field when they're attendingdomestic violence incidents or
when people come in to policestations to report domestic
violence. We promote that commonrisk assessment so that we're
all kind of talking the samelanguage, and we can all assess
that, you know, the level ofthreat in the same way.
(06:15):
In terms of my team, we providethat mentoring support to the
workers on the ground across NewSouth Wales. Pretty unique sort
of service that we provide,because it probably is a bit
unusual for a funding body toalso have a mentoring support
aspect to it. But I've beenworking at Legal Aid since 2007
(06:41):
where I was invited to try out amentoring role for the workers
who worked in the services, andit was subsequently seen as
being successful, obviously,because I'm still there and now
I have four other mentoringstaff that work in that team. So
we provide support to theworkers on the ground in
(07:04):
relation to their practice inthe field.
So about their relationshipbuilding. This work can't be
done successfully, and we can'tprovide the best possible
service to clients if we're notworking effectively and
positively and closely with ourpartners. And that generally is
New South Wales Police. It'slocal courts to some degree. Of
(07:27):
course, the community sector inthose local areas of the state,
the legal fraternity to somedegree. And of course, you know
our organization, Legal Aid. Wework really closely, sometimes
with the practice areas in LegalAid as well.
Again, we aim for thatconsistent service delivery so
(07:49):
that it doesn't matter whether awoman is going to court in Tweed
Heads or she's going in Albury,she's going to get the same
service when she comes to courtand the same opportunities for
her.
We also provide training to ourworkers across the state.
Currently, we probably haveabout 500 workers in the field,
and we're in the process ofdeveloping some online training
(08:13):
modules so that managers canbetter manage their teams.
Because the work has grownsignificantly, teams in the
field have grown significantlyas well. So when the program
started, when I first started asa manager of the WDVCAS in 1996,
there was just coordinatorpositions. That was just us. So
(08:37):
we had to develop close workingrelationships with local
solicitors for support, youknow, and try to ensure that
people could could access somepro bono representation and some
assistance. And we also had towork very closely with the
community sector locally so thatwe could have workers seconded
(08:59):
to assist us at court on AVOlist days. So it was very
different in those days, and wedidn't have the paid workers
that we have today. So now we'vegot all of those workers. We
provide that training. We'regoing online with a lot of those
modules, as I said.
We also provide training on aregular basis to New South Wales
(09:21):
Police. I present at theirprosecutor training sessions. We
have some of our workers in thefield who attend police training
at the Academy when they'redoing courses for domestic
violence officers. Anyopportunity that we have to work
with people in thatcollaborative way in promoting
the work and and ensuring thatwe're working together, we take
(09:45):
those up because it makes adifference to people on the
ground. To our clients, to womenand children that we're
supporting, because you'reharnessing the specialist work
that police, you know, do, whichis more around enforcement and
looking after perpetrators ofviolence. And we do the other
side of the work in terms ofsupporting the victims and
(10:07):
plugging them into services thatmore properly support them going
forward.
So a pretty broad range of workin terms of training. We also do
two training sessions for safetyaction meetings. And safety
action meetings occur everyfortnight in every local area.
Every local area, as in policecommand and police district. So
(10:32):
those safety action meetingcoordinators sit with our
WDVCASs in the field. ThoseSafety Action meetings are for
people who are assessed at mostserious threat, and they're
attended by organizations,government organizations that
deal with domestic violence, soHealth, Corrections, Education,
(10:54):
DCJ child protection and DCJhousing, and then a number of
non government organizationsmight attend those meetings as
well. And they will depend onwho has capacity and who's
available in those local areas.But those meetings occur locally
across the state everyfortnight.
(11:14):
So we provide training forpeople who participate in those
meetings. We do two trainingsessions every month for SAM
participants, and we run about40 or 50 each session in terms
of attendance. So it's quitebroad and fairly extensive, the
training we do. Ad hoc trainingas well for our WDVCASs
(11:38):
according to need in what theyrequire on the ground in their
local areas.
I think that's about all we doin terms of training. I think
the other thing that we oftenget involved in are working
parties and opportunities toliaise or provide information
(11:58):
feedback to other pilots orservices that are running in
other government organizations.That's fairly constant. Our
manager sits on the DomesticViolence Death Review Board. So
they meet fairly regularly todiscuss domestic violence
homicides. We do attend a lot ofhigher level police meetings to
(12:21):
liaise with police at thatmanagement level. Again, to kind
of feed into the work that theydo, so that we're working hand
in hand with them.
Pauline (12:31):
That's an incredibly
impressive list of works, Bev.
But I did hear you mentionearlier something about a
practice team. Could you justexpand on that a little bit for
us and tell us what theirfunction is or their role?
Bev Lazarou (12:45):
Sure. The practice
team consists of four other
project workers and myself. Eachof those project workers has
oversight of a number of theWDVCASs, so they have their own
services that they effectivelyoverseeand they also share a
rostered job within the unitwhere they are on the phones
(13:07):
each day to receive through thesystem the referrals that come
through from police wherevictims live In other states. So
those services, sorry, thosecalls, those referrals, come
That's amazing. Bev, it soundslike the WDVCAP program does a
through to our unit so that wecan make contact with people
interstate and ensure that theyare given information about
(13:30):
services they can access. Andthey also troubleshoot for the
WDVCASs on the ground. So ifthey have any issues either with
the database and the systemsthey record on or in their
practice in the field, they willoften ring that particular
number we have, to ask questionsor get feedback or some support
(13:53):
around those issues that come upfor them in the field. So the
practice team is involved in allof the things that I talked
about before, but they also havea role on a rostered basis every
day to ensure that we'reconnecting with the field and
that we're available to assistthem with the work they're doing
(14:16):
from day to day.
lot more than what a normal orrun of the mill sort of
auspicing body does. So thoseare the services within but how
does the WDVCAP program actuallyoversee the CAS services?
(14:40):
So when the mentoring staffvisit the the actual WDVCASs is
in the field. They usually willobserve an AVOlist day in
practice at those local courts,because that's a good way to see
how things are operating.They'll attend the local Safety
Action Meetings in that area.They'll meet with the teams at
(15:02):
their offices. They might alsomeet with local police or other
community sector organizations,So they'll get a real handle on
what's happening in that localarea to assist them with their
practice.
They also provide feedback tomanagers when they submit their
(15:22):
six monthly reports about thework that they do, and I've
mentioned this before, but theytroubleshoot, address local
issues. We would then in theunit, push those issues up the
line if we need to with otherdepartments and in a sort of
more senior management way. Wealso have forums for our
(15:43):
workers, so for each workergroup that is the specialist
workers, the focus workers thatfocus on Aboriginal women,
multicultural background women,women with disability,
LGBTIQ+communities and youth andolder people. We have forums for
(16:05):
all of those different workers,for the hearing support workers,
for the co -ocation workers.
Pauline (16:10):
That sounds amazing.
I'm going to ask you in a moment
It seems like they go onforever, but we run those forums
every two months online so thatour workers can connect and
about some pilots, but beforethen, would you just briefly
network. We'd have guestspeakers in those forums as well
on topics that are relevant forthem. And again, we the practice
team convene those forums sothat those workers are able to
(16:31):
raise issues in that setting aswell for us to follow up in
terms of their practice. And theother things, I suppose, just
briefly, in relation to thedatabase and file keeping
systems, we assist with thoseand always updating policy and
procedure manuals and so on, inrelation to the work.
(17:01):
talk us through what actually isa DV list day at the local
court, and what that means for adomestic violence court advocacy
service team?
Bev Lazarou (17:13):
Thanks, Pauline,
yes. AVO list days at Local
Courts. There's usually in themetro courts, there are some
very busy list days. In countryand regional areas, the numbers
aren't as high, but AVO list dayis really where AVOs are listed
for mention to either negotiatethose AVOs in the conditions on
(17:36):
the ABO with the perpetrator orthe defendant who is required to
attend court as well.
So on those days, the victimsurvivors will come into court
and usually be directed to asafe room within the courthouse.
In some of the little countrycourts, they don't even have a
(17:57):
safe room, so they have to makeother arrangements, whether they
sit even outside, in the yard orin an in the police station or
an office nearby, but wherethere is a safe room, they wait
in there. Our workers sit inthat safe room with them, and
will go through their conditionson their AVOs, ask for some
amendments to those if they'renot suitable, because it's
(18:20):
important that AVO conditionsare suited to that individual's
needs and are tailored to makesure that they meet those needs,
because if they don't, the AVOwon't be as effective, and
people are less likely to usethem as well. Once they've had
those conversations withclients, they will have had
phone contact with the clientsbefore court, because we receive
(18:43):
all of the referrals from NewSouth Wales Police in their
entirety. So as soon as thatofficer finishes their shift, if
they've dealt with a domesticviolence matter, they
effectively push a button, andthat referral is pushed through
the system to our WDVCASs.
So we receive every single oneof those, and contact usually is
made within the next businessday with that client. So they'll
(19:07):
have conversation on the phone.But it's always good to have
people attend at court, becausewe can make sure those
conditions are suitable, thatwe've got their most up to date
instructions. We can makereferrals, other referrals for
them in terms of their otherneeds, whether it's counseling,
housing, financial assistance,we can ensure that all of that
(19:28):
is done. And so once the workershave spoken to those clients in
the safe room, the police, thedomestic violence officers, who
are working on the day as well,and would be working very
closely with the WDVCAS, theywould then talk to the
defendants about the conditionson the AVO. There might be some
(19:49):
negotiation toing and froing, anexample of that might be where
he he may say, and I will alwaysuse gendered language, because
our clients are women andchildren. He might say he wants
to go to the school to watch thekids play sport. And if that
restriction's on the order, theymight alter that, if that's not
an issue. So there might be somenegotiation there. And of
(20:12):
course, the goal is to get afinal order as soon as possible,
so that you're having lesstrauma for people going through
that court process.
If that final order isn'tnegotiated on a list day, then
the matter might be set down forhearing at a later date, where
all the parties will come andgive evidence, and then the
court will determine whether theAVO is made or not, on the
(20:35):
balance of probabilities. Theremight be charges attached to
that AVO as well, which will bedealt with, usually on the same
day, and those matters will run,you know, alongside each other,
until their finality. So thosecondition sheets will go into
court to the prosecutor, so thatthey have the information they
need to present to the court.
Pauline (20:57):
Thank you so much, Bev.
It sounds like it could
potentially be an incrediblyintimidating and daunting
experience for clients. So I'mreally grateful that our
listening community and supportworkers now maybe know a little
bit more about that process fortheir clients on list day. I'd
like to move on now to thepilots we previously mentioned,
(21:20):
because they sound incrediblyinnovative and potentially game
changing for the domestic,family and sexual violence
sector.
Bev Lazarou (21:32):
Thanks. Pauline.
Yes, very happy to talk about
the pilots. These are reallyexciting and innovative
initiatives. The first one isco-location, and that is where,
at 10 locations, we have aWDVCAS worker sitting in the
police station. They sit withthe general duties officers or
(21:52):
with the domestic violenceteams, usually and their role is
to see women that come into thepolice station to report
domestic violence. So usuallythey will talk to them before
the police do unless there'ssomething more urgent that you
know where someone needs medicalattention, or the police
(22:12):
determine that, you know, theyneed to get involved
immediately.
Usually the WDVCAS worker willtalk to that person first and
and that, again, is aboututilizing, you know, the the
specialist skills of thoseworkers. Police, obviously, are
trained in terms of lawenforcement, so I think it's a
(22:33):
great combination to haveworkers in there that can talk
to those people as they come inand prepare them, talk to them
about what is involved in makinga report to police. And then
they may decide at that timethat they're not ready to do
that. Of course, they can, Theycan do that, but, but WDVCAS
workers would be encouragingpeople to make reports if it was
(22:54):
safe to do so and you know theywere comfortable with that.
Pauline (22:58):
Is it looking to be a
successful program at this
point?
Bev Lazarou (23:01):
It has been really
successful, because having
clients talk to those workersfirst up means that they're
getting better information, moredetailed information. Clients,
women are often disclosing moreserious offences to to those
workers as well. They're alsohelping with misidentification.
(23:25):
So if there have been womenwho've been arrested and brought
into police stations asdefendants because they've been
misidentified at an incident andthen having talked to the
worker, sometimes in the cells,that that person might walk out
of the police station with anorder for them, because they're
identified as the primary victimin the matter.
(23:47):
So the other spin off effect isthat those workers can also talk
to police, be a liaison, if youlike, where police want
information about particularreferral services in that local
area. The sort of social welfareinformation that CASs, you know,
work with every day. They cangive that information to police
(24:09):
as needed. We've had policerequest them to be there more
than in business hours. We'vehad police bring clients back to
the station, because this isoriginally for people who walked
into the police station. It wasa Death Review Team
recommendation to police becausesometimes when women were coming
into police stations, theyweren't being responded to very
(24:33):
quickly. And okay, you know,they would sometimes decide not
to then report. You know, they'dwalk out again. So having
someone there that could talk tothem straight away and in that,
in the way that we would do thatwork certainly has had a
positive effect on people. Andit's really important for those
(24:53):
workers to be able to workwithin that police environment
as well. You know, we're workingin a quite a highly charged
environment. They're doingdifficult work all of the time,
so workers have to be able to,to absorb some of that, I
suppose, if you like, and makesure that they can still work
with those clients in, in thatspace, and work hand in hand
(25:17):
with police. So I think it'ssensational. I think it is a
true collaboration, and it'sabout, you know, using the
specialist skills of both thoseorganizations in the best
possible way.
Pauline (25:32):
Wow. That sounds like
such an amazing program. Bev,
thank you so much for talking tous about that, and I'm sure I
speak for most, if not all, ofour listeners when I say that I
just hope this goes fromstrength to strength and that
the pilot becomes more of apermanent thing, and we really
(25:53):
do look forward to hearing moregood things from that.
Bev Lazarou (25:56):
Yes, yes. Agree.
It's being evaluated currently
that by the University ofWollongong, and we should have a
report by the end of this year.So yes, we absolutely have our
fingers crossed for thatcontinuing.
Pauline (26:14):
And the second pilot
is?
Bev Lazarou (26:16):
And the second
pilot is Hearing Support and
that's where we have a hearingsupport worker located at every
WDVCAS. Those workers areparticularly focused on
preparing women for hearing, andthat is engaging early with
them. So you know, right fromthe beginning, when the matter
(26:37):
is mentioned at court, theywould start to engage if the
matter is listed for hearing. Sothey would be encouraging them
to attend the prosecutorclinics, which generally take
place monthly and are held atthe local court. So people whose
matters are going to hearing foran AVO and or related charges
(26:58):
will attend that clinic. WDVCASworker will be there and a
police prosecutor will be thereso they can talk to them about
the process of a hearing. Whatyou know, so that they're
prepared for for the day. Youknow, many times victims of
domestic violence have neverbeen in a court before, ever set
foot in a courthouse. So it's aquite an intimidating
(27:19):
environment, and courtrooms, youknow, they're not really set up
in a supportive way. They'vebeen more built and set up for
for dealing with offenders. Soit can be a scary thing, and as
well as having to face theperpetrator of the violence as
well.
So a prosecutor will just takethem through the process.
(27:40):
They'll might do a little tourof the courtroom so that they
can see, you know, who's who andwhat's going to happen. They've
got an opportunity to ask anyquestions. So it's good to do it
in a group, because people can,you know, obtain information
from each other and see thatthey're not alone in the
process. The prosecutors usuallywill take some time after the
(28:01):
clinic's finished to talk topeople individually if they want
to talk about their own matter,which is also useful. Police
don't, yeah, they don't have alot of time to prepare clients
for these matters. But it'sdifficult to, you know, to get
any time before the hearingstarts with a prosecutor.
(28:22):
So clinics are a great way totry to familiarize people with
the environment and with theprocess, and then those hearing
support workers will be incontact with the person right up
until the hearing. They'llattend court with them on the
hearing day, and the outcome ofthat has been that if we can get
(28:44):
women. Often, often thesematters fall over, or, you know,
are not successful at court,because women don't come and
it's too frightening, they don'twant to face the other party.
The whole idea of givingevidence and talking about very
sensitive and personalinformation is too much, so they
don't show up. This pilot hasshown very clearly that if
(29:08):
people are supported and come tocourt, and it's made a massive
difference to successfuloutcomes, because the
defendants, then even defencesolicitors and seeing that the
client, the woman is there, theywill often then enter into
negotiations.
So it's been very successful injust getting people through the
(29:30):
doors of the courthouse. Then ifthey do have to give evidence
and go through the process, thathearing support worker can be
that liaison between theprosecutor and the victim, and
prosecutors have absolutelytaken it on board. They love it
because it's another person thatcan be that middle person you
(29:50):
know, providing information backto the client, toing and froing,
so that they can concentrate onwhat they're doing and support
them through the through thehearing process. So really
excellent as well, and that hasbeen evaluated the University of
Technology, Sydney - UTS did theevaluation of that pilot, and
(30:12):
that that report is online andavailable for people to have a
look at if they want to.
Pauline (30:17):
Just a quick reminder
to listeners that we will have
those links in the show notesfor you, as usual.
Bev Lazarou (30:24):
Okay, that would be
great, I think, in terms of
hearing support, that is, youknow, it's, it's an area that
we, we didn't have the resourcesto provide workers at hearings.
You know, resources really were,were for AVO list days, and we
didn't have people to attend onother days, and it is a really
(30:45):
critical time that here, youknow, it's the pointy end, and
it's often the thing thattraumatizes people the most,
having to go over theirevidence, having to be cross
examined by a defence lawyer.It's, it's hard going so having
a family member or a friendthere, of course, is is
supportive. But if you've got aprofessional person there that
(31:08):
can manage the the activity andwhat's going on at court, it
makes a huge difference. We knowthat people give better
evidence. You know they're moreconfident in giving their
evidence, and as well, they'remore likely to return to report
again. If the process, even ifit's not successful, if the
process is supported properly,they're more likely to come back
(31:29):
to report again.
Pauline (31:31):
Oh my goodness, what an
amazing program. It just sounds
like such an achievement to getall the players from all the
parts on the same side that willnot necessarily the same side,
but to have everybody on thesame page, at least, is an
(31:53):
incredible achievement. Such animpressive program. Thank you so
much for sharing that with us,it sounds amazing.
Our time together is almost atan end. We only have two more
questions for you. Bev, you'veworked in this sector for a long
(32:13):
time. You've recently won thePremier's Award for public
servant of the year, and aheartfelt congratulations to you
for that. What are the changesyou've observed in that time for
the betterment of domestic andfamily violence services during
that period? During that time?
Bev Lazarou (32:33):
Yes, thanks.
Pauline, I have worked in the
sector for a long time. Iextremely positive changes in
the sector. Of course, you know,we still have a long way to go.
We should always be open to newways of doing things. Doing
things better. Listening to eachother within the sector, and to
(32:56):
obviously, listening to victimsurvivors as well, so that we
can always improve. But when Ifirst started working in
domestic and family violence inthe 90s, early 90s, maybe late
80s, police didn't take outorders in those days, not
(33:16):
really. We would be - I wasworking in refuges and women's
housing, supported housing backthen, and we would be at the
courthouse asking for registrarsto take out applications
privately through the registry.But now, about 98% of
applications are policeinitiated, so very few private
(33:40):
applications now. So that's amassive, you know, shift. It's
been that for quite some timenow. Police certainly have given
great priority to domesticviolence in the last many years.
So so that's a big shift. And ofcourse, being treated, I
suppose, it wasn't treated backin those early days as a crime
(34:02):
so much. It was considered abit of a relationship, you know,
behind closed doors issue.Certainly not that now and so
we, we do get many more peoplereporting.
You know, as you said beforeabout the stigma, you know. It
has removed some of that stigmain terms of reporting, because
domestic violence crosses acrossall socio economic groups. It
(34:25):
can affect anyone at all. So, sothat is a massive positive
thing. The Safer Pathwayinitiative that commenced in
2014/15. A State governmentinitiative, which is a different
response to domestic violence. Amore coordinated response to
(34:46):
domestic violence across thestate, where those referrals -
all matters that are reported topolice go through a platform, an
electronic platform, and aspeared out to WDVCASs
immediately. When those reportsare entered into the police
system and they are sent out viapost code, so that the WDVCAS
(35:07):
nearest to where the victimlives, gets that referral, so
that those people can be pluggedinto services that are most
appropriate and local for them.
And then following on from that,of course, we've got information
sharing legislation that allowsfor in serious threat matters,
people to share informationabout those domestic violence
(35:30):
matters and that history. Thatis amazing, because it means
that we're not working inisolation, in silos, as they
say, anymore, and that makes adifference when we can share
that information. So SaferPathways is about that, that
Safety Assessment Tool that Imentioned earlier about the
(35:50):
Domestic Violence SafetyAssessment Tool, where they
assess the threat, and thatinvolves asking a number of
questions and using theirprofessional judgment as to
whether someone is at seriousthreat or at threat.
So every referral goes throughthe system, but the serious
threat ones are referred on to aSafety Action Meeting where all
(36:12):
of those other agencies cometogether with police and the
WDVCAS to discuss thoseparticular cases and offer a
safety plan to that client. Andthen they decide, of that safety
plan what they wish to take upor not. So Safer Pathway's been
an amazing initiative that'sfirmly embedded now, and it's
(36:35):
had a spin off effect in thatall services have better
knowledge about each other.Police understand the sector a
bit more, and the domesticviolence sector understands the
way they operate as well. Sothat shared knowledge means
people know each other better.They can work together more
effectively, even outside ofthat process.
(36:55):
All of that means that we've hada substantial increase in
service demand because we've gotmore people, you know,
reporting. So we've had amassive growth in terms of
WDVCAS workers. As I said at thebeginning, we had 27 managers
initially, and now we havearound 500 workers. So that's
(37:17):
amazing in itself. There's muchbetter collaboration between
agencies and services Now.Government certainly has, you
know, prioritized domestic andfamily violence as an issue when
I'm talking about change fromwhen I first started. You know,
it's right up there in terms ofpriority and exposure.
AVOs can now be registeredacross all the borders in
(37:42):
Australia. So if an AVO is madein New South Wales and someone
moved to Queensland, they canregister that AVO, and it can be
effective in that other state.We've got coercive control as an
offence now, which is really,you know, a grouping of domestic
violence behaviors, but it's butit's an offence in itself.
(38:06):
WDVCASs have been working withwomen on all aspects of domestic
violence for a long time, butnow we have a separate offence
that incorporates probably theless violent behaviors that can
be grouped together, if youlike, and so that's another
tool, I guess in the in thepolice toolbox. We've got
(38:28):
electronic monitoring ofoffenders in domestic violence
matters when they're bailed, ifor when they're paroled. So
that's another protection forpeople and Staying Home Leaving
Violence as a program sort ofgot underway during that time as
well, even though it's beengoing for a long time. And it's
(38:51):
for women, of course, who wantto remain in their own
properties and assist withsecurity upgrades and so forth.
So, lots of real positivechange. And like I said, of
course, we've got a long way togo. There's still women being
murdered, and we've got toalways think about how we might
do things better, morecollaboratively, and always be
(39:12):
open to that.
Pauline (39:14):
Well, that is a big
list of observances from you,
and incredibly grateful to hearabout them, And I agree, we are
all working towards better andbetter service delivery, and
ultimately, obviously, towardsthe elimination of violence in
(39:36):
its forms, in all Its forms.That is the end of our formal
questions.
There is one last question, andit is, quite simply, Bev, what's
the one thing you would wantlisteners who are caseworkers,
support workers, communityworkers - What's the one thing
(39:56):
you would like them to take awayfrom our podcast today? From the
information you've given, what'ssomething you would like them to
carry with them after listening?
Bev Lazarou (40:07):
Oh, so much. Look,
I hope that today hopefully
improved people's understandingof the work that we do. You know
that's useful, and of course,always feel free to contact your
local WDVCAS or the unit ifyou've got any questions in
regard to the work, in regard todomestic and family violence.
(40:29):
Always happy to talk to peopleabout any of those issues. But
for me, I think what I'd reallylike people to understand is the
importance of relationships inthis work. The importance of
collaboration, working togetherwith all of our partners, so
that I know I've talked about itthrough the podcast, but so that
(40:51):
we can harness our specialistskills and we're and the
different things and thedifferent ways we come at this
work. Work together.
So you have to develop andmaintain really positive
relationships with your keypartners always. And if you have
that, you can achieve so much. Ican't stress that enough and
(41:12):
that's something that I'velearned over many years. You
know, focus on people'sstrengths and their different
agencies, the different roles,what they can bring to to the
work. Meeting clients wherethey're at is also so important.
You know, we're not walking inpeople's shoes. So it's not for
us to tell people what theyshould be doing, but rather to
(41:35):
offer appropriate information sothat they can make informed
decisions themselves about whatthey need to do for themselves
and their family, theirchildren. Respecting those
decisions because even if youdon't agree with what someone
decides to do because of yourexperience as a worker, because
maybe to do with your ownbiases, you need to respect the
(41:59):
decisions of the people that wework with. That they they need
to make a decision based onwhere they're at at this time.
Always make sure that the door'sleft open so that people can
report again. Make sure thatthey're always respected. That
they always feel they they cancome back and talk to you again.
You people shouldn't ever feeljudged and never felt told about
(42:22):
what they should or shouldshouldn't be doing.
And the other thing is theimpact on children of domestic
and family violence. My view, mypersonal view, you can't work in
this field and not considerissues of child protection,
because those kids are thecollateral damage in all of
this, and often our focus is onthe primary victim or the
(42:45):
offender in these matters. So itis so important that we consider
the needs of children, make surethat they're referred on, make
sure that they're considered,you know, even in taking out an
AVO, because children areimpacted significantly, either
directly or indirectly by theviolence that they witness. And
we need to always have that inthe picture as well. I've
(43:08):
certainly seen over my time thegenerations of people who are
victims and offenders. I've seenthose young people sometimes
grow up and be victims andoffenders when they've grown up
in families where domesticviolence has been perpetrated.
I've seen lots of young men atcourt where AVOs have been taken
(43:28):
out on behalf of their mums,where there's been a violent
male in that family who's nolonger there, but that young man
is mirroring that behavior thathe's learned growing up, and
certainly that woman does notwant to be there at court with
an order against her child. Sothose that generational stuff
(43:49):
continues. we've got tointervene a little bit earlier
in relation to these matters,where we can, so that people
have some more sort ofinformation and education about
respectful relationships earlyon to the level of their
understanding. So I know, I knowthat's a lot of kind of
thoughts,
Pauline (44:08):
but it is a lot of one
things,
Bev Lazarou (44:10):
Yes, a lot of
things. They're the things that
you know, for me, likerelationships and collaboration,
are at the heart of everything,that's where we can work best,
and all those other things kindof feed into that. There is a
website that probably we couldadd to the list, and it's a
government website I'll set I'llsend it on to you. But it's a
(44:33):
domestic violence website thathas everything in relation to
safer pathway, the informationsharing legislation, a whole lot
of information. So absolutely,invite people to log on to that
and have a look at what's there.Yeah, I think that's about all
I've got to say. Pauline,
Pauline (44:52):
Well, I really
appreciate your time today. Bev,
and that information isincredibly helpful, I'm sure, to
our listeners. And I'd justlike to say again, thank you for
coming on to the podcast. Thankyou for your time today. You
are, you have been an absolutewealth of information, and thank
(45:13):
you for sharing your history inthe sector with us and for
giving us all those reallyuseful points of service that
are available, and the pilotsand just everything that WDVCAP
is doing.
Bev Lazarou (45:30):
Thanks, Pauline,
it's been a pleasure talking to
Pauline (45:33):
That was our guest. Bev
Lazarou from the Women's
you.
Domestic Violence Court AdvocacyProgram here in Legal Aid New
South Wales. This has been 'Tilthe violence ends. If you or
someone you know is beingimpacted by domestic, family or
sexual violence, please call theDV hotline on 1800 65 64 63, or
(45:55):
1800 RESPECT. That's 1800 73 7732 or the Men's Line on 1300 78
99 78. In any emergencysituation, always, please call
Triple Zero - 000. Thank you forlistening.