December 18, 2024 • 32 mins
This is the second episode in our podcast series exploring domestic violence in Australia. We will explore the legal issues people experience, the services available to provide support and speak to a wide range of people working in the sector.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which this episode was made and pay our respects to Elders past and present.
In this second episode, Bridget from the Community Legal Education Branch speaks with Lehana De Silva, solicitor Aboriginal Support at the Tenants’ Union of NSW about what you can do if you are experiencing domestic and family or sexual violence and you want to leave a tenancy.
There is useful information in this episode about how community workers can support people who are experiencing domestic and family violence.
Tenants’ Union of NSW website: www.tenants.org.au
https://www.tenants.org.au/resources/domestic-violence
Fact sheet about leaving a tenancy when you are experiencing domestic violence https://www.tenants.org.au/factsheet-12-domestic-violence
Supplementary guide to the fact sheet: https://www.tenants.org.au/resource/dv-guide
Links to support services for people experiencing domestic and family violence are below.
- 1800 RESPECT 1800 737 732 – a free and confidential national counselling service for sexual assault and domestic and family violence. 1800respect.org.au
- 1800 656 463 NSW Domestic Violence Line–free, confidential counselling and referrals for women experiencing domestic and family violence.
- 1800 424 017 for anyone who has experienced sexual assault, recently or in the past, also for family members professionals and others impacted.
- 1800 943 539 – 24/7 sexual, domestic and family violence helpline for anyone whose life has been impacted by domestic or family violence.
- 1800 385 578 - Full Stop Australia – provides counselling for people whose lives have been impacted by violence and abuse. fullstop.org.au
- 1800 211 028 – 24/7 for adult survivors of childhood institutional sexual abuse. Helping anyone accessing the Redress scheme or alternative compensation.
- 13 92 76 – 13 YARN – 24/7 support for mob feeling overwhelmed or having difficulty coping. 13yarn.org.au
- Well Mob - wellmob.org.au social, emotional and cultural wellbeing online resources for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
- 1800 497 212 – A free, confidential service available 24/7 for anyone from the LGBTQI+ community whose life has been impacted by sexual, domestic and/or family violence.
- Say it out loud - sayitoutloud.org.au a national service for LGBTQ+ communities and service professionals working with people who have experienced sexual, domestic and/or family violence
- 1300 766 491 – 7 days pw service for anyone in Australia whose life has been impacted by men’s use of violence or abusive behaviours.
Useful websites:
Our Watch | Quick facts about violence against women
Domestic Violence Prevention Centre: support and resources
Family and domestic violence - Services Australia
Music: What a day
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bridget Barker (00:03):
This is a Law for Community Workers podcast.
Legal Aid NSW acknowledges thatall our podcasts are recorded on
Aboriginal lands across NewSouth Wales. We pay our respects
to all traditional owners andcustodians of those lands, and
extend that respect to Elderspast and present, as well as to
(00:23):
any Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander listeners joining us
today. Always was, always willbe.
Welcome to Episode 2 of our newseries 'Til the Violence Ends, a
series for community and supportworkers to gain insight from
experts found in domestic,family and sexual violence
services. This second episode isabout domestic violence and
(00:45):
tenancy.
Lehana from the Tenants' Unionof New South Wales provides
answers to questions such as,how can you leave a tenancy if
you're experiencing domesticviolence, what are your rights
and what do you need to do toleave or to have a perpetrator
of domestic violence excluded.The information provided in this
(01:05):
episode is correct at the timeof recording and should be
regarded as information only andnot legal advice. Please see our
show notes for a breakdown ofthe episode along with
information and links toresources mentioned in today's
episode.
Lehana, welcome to our newpodcast series about domestic,
(01:28):
family and sexual violence.Would you please let our
audience know about the Tenants'Union of New South Wales where
you work and what your role isthere?
Lehana (TUNSW) (01:39):
Thanks, Bridget my role is as the Solicitor,
Aboriginal support at theTenants' Union. So I work in the
legal team of the Tenants'Union, which is a Community
Legal Centre that specializes inNew South Wales residential
tenancy law. The Tenants' Unionis the main resourcing body for
the tenants advice and advocacyservices across the state, and
(02:02):
we work to promote the interestsof tenants across New South
Wales through advocacy,campaigning and law reform
Bridget Barker (02:09):
Thank you. So today, we invited you to speak
with us to learn a bit aboutwhat the tenancy law says if
someone is experiencingdomestic, family and sexual
violence, and how they might beable to leave a tenancy, and
what their options are. Ifsomebody wants to end a tenancy
because they are in thatsituation, what can they do?
Lehana (TUNSW) (02:32):
Yeah, so there are many different ways to leave
a tenancy, but in 2019 reformswere introduced to the
Residential Tenancies Act, whichintroduced a new way of
terminating a tenancy called a"domestic violence termination
notice". And what that means isthat by giving this notice in
(02:54):
writing to any co-tenants and toyour landlord, you can
immediately terminate yourtenancy without giving a notice
period or serving a noticeperiod. And so what the process
of the "domestic violencetermination notice" involves is
(03:15):
giving the notice specifying thedate on which you would like the
tenancy to end, and alsoattaching a type of evidence to
the notice. The evidence onlyhas to be attached to the copy
of the notice that you give tothe landlord or agent, and not
to your other co tenants.
Bridget Barker (03:35):
Okay. Thank you. Would you mind outlining the
sorts of evidence that would beacceptable when you serve one of
these notices?
Lehana (TUNSW) (03:45):
Yeah, so the there's four types of evidence,
and you only need to attach oneof these types. So one is a
certificate of conviction, ofcriminal conviction for the
domestic violence offence thathas to have arisen during the
current tenancy agreement. Thesecond type of evidence is a
domestic violence order, and hasto be one that is in force.
Bridget Barker (04:09):
Can I ask you there, when you say domestic
violence order, what kind oforders are they?
Lehana (TUNSW) (04:14):
So domestic violence order there's, there's
two types of, what we callapprehended violence orders that
you can get against an offender.There's an apprehended personal
violence order and anapprehended domestic violence
order. So an apprehendedpersonal violence order, those
are the ones made betweenindividuals who are not in a
(04:35):
domestic relationship. Thatmight be like co workers, for
example. But what I'm talkingabout in this context of the
evidence type is an apprehendeddomestic violence order, which
is an order that protectsindividuals in a domestic
relationship.
Bridget Barker (04:51):
Thank you. And I think there's two other types of
evidence that you could attachto one of these orders?
Lehana (TUNSW) (04:57):
Yes. So one is a family law injunction under the
Family Law Act relating to thathas been made so as a result of
family violence. And again, thathas to be an injunction that is
in force at the time that yougive the notice of termination.
And finally, one of the mostcommonly used types of evidence
(05:18):
is a "declaration of competentpersons". It's a way to provide
the evidence required for adomestic violence termination
notice that does not requirepersons to speak to or engage
with the legal system at all.And so what they are able to do
is to go to a specific type ofprofessional that it could be,
(05:41):
for example, a doctor, a healthprofessional, such as a nurse, a
pharmacist, a psychologist. Youcould also go to a social worker
who was a member of theAustralian Association of Social
Workers, an employee of a NewSouth Wales government agency
that works in child protection,or employees of non government
(06:02):
agencies that. Receivegovernment funding to provide
services relating to domesticviolence, sexual assault or
refuge or emergencyaccommodation, and also an
approved counselor is acompetent person. And so what
you would do if you wanted thattype of evidence is you would go
to that professional and consultwith them and ask them to fill
(06:25):
out the declaration by acompetent person form, and they
would sign that and you wouldattach that to the termination
notice.
Bridget Barker (06:36):
Okay, but you only have to serve that evidence
on the landlord, not on anyother co-tenants. Is that right?
Lehana (TUNSW) (06:43):
Correct. So tenants do not have to attach
any of that evidence to atermination notice that they
give to any other co-tenants,but they do have to give a copy
of the termination notice to theco-tenants.
Bridget Barker (06:53):
Okay, thank you. What if the person who is a
victim of domestic and familyviolence doesn't want to leave?
Are they able to follow aprocess to evict the person who
is the perpetrator of violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (07:09):
There are a couple of ways that somebody can
stay in their tenancy and try toend the tenancy of the
perpetrator. One way is to get afinal apprehended domestic
violence order, and that finalorder has to have what's called
(07:29):
an exclusion order in it,meaning that there's actually an
order excluding the perpetratorfrom attending the premises of
the tenancy, and if you havethat final AVO that
automatically ends the tenancyof the perpetrator if they had a
tenancy with you. The other waythat you can end the tenancy of
(07:53):
a perpetrator while staying inthe property is by applying to
the New South Wales Civil andAdministrative Tribunal, or
NCAT, we call it, which is ait's sort of like a court. It's
meant to be less formal, andit's where many tenancy disputes
are resolved in New South Wales,and you can make an application
(08:15):
ending the co-tenants agreement"in the special circumstances of
the case."
Bridget Barker (08:21):
Okay, and presumably those situations
you've just outlined are onlyapply if you're named on the
lease that you have?
Lehana (TUNSW) (08:30):
Yeah, that's right.
Bridget Barker (08:31):
Thank you. Lehana, what happens if you
experience domestic, family,sexual violence and you're a
sub-tenant?
Lehana (TUNSW) (08:40):
So really, the answer to that question depends
on whether or not you have awritten agreement to live in the
property or not as a sub-tenant,and that's because if you have a
written agreement as asub-tenant, then you are covered
by the Residential TenanciesAct, and then all of the rules
that would apply to tenantsaround domestic violence
(09:01):
termination notices, forexample, would also apply to you
as a sub-tenant. But if you area sub-tenant and you do not have
a written agreement to live inthe property, then the Act does
not apply to you, theResidential Tenancies Act. And
so in that scenario, I wouldrecommend getting advice, but
(09:23):
also obviously, to leave anyunsafe situation. It's a really
good idea, even if you're notcovered by the Act, to make it
clear in writing to the personthat you are renting from why
you are leaving, so that thereis a written record of the
reason that you're ending youragreement with them.
Bridget Barker (09:42):
Okay, so that that would help prevent you from
being liable for any potentialongoing rent, if you've made it
clear that that's the reasonthat you're leaving?
Lehana (TUNSW) (09:53):
It would and it would, it would also be a good
idea in this situation to getlegal advice, just because your
legal status really depends onthe specific circumstances of
your situation. If you don'thave a written agreement that
you can point to, it really canbe quite unclear sometimes, in
terms of what your rights andobligations are, so it's a good
idea to get advice.
Bridget Barker (10:12):
Okay, so what about if you fall into a
different category, such as ifyou were a lodger or a guest,
and you need to leave becauseyou're experiencing domestic,
family or sexual violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (10:27):
So if you're a boarder or lodger your you might
be covered under the BoardingHouses Act. It really depends on
what your specific circumstancesare. And the reason I say that
is because sometimes you have aboarding or lodging situation
that looks very much like atenancy agreement and could be a
tenancy agreement. So if you areunsure about the type of
(10:50):
agreement you have and whetheror not it's a tenancy, I would
encourage anyone in thatsituation to get advice, so
legal advice, to look at thespecific circumstances of the
case, of what was agreed to.You know, things like "Is rent
being paid? Who else is livingin the house?" All of those
factors can determine whethersomething looks more like a
(11:11):
tenancy or more like a boardinghouse. If you're but in either
case, you if you are in acircumstance of domestic
violence, while the BoardingHouses Act doesn't have similar
provisions to the ResidentialTenancies Act when it comes to
ending a tenancy for domesticviolence, if you were in an
unsafe situation, you shouldstill prioritize your safety.
(11:37):
Exit and leave the tenancy orexit the arrangement, I should
say, and just make it known tothe person who you're renting
from, or you're, who you're, whois in charge of the agreement or
providing the agreement that youare exiting for this reason, for
the reason of domestic violence,and give that notice to them in
(12:01):
writing.
Bridget Barker (12:02):
Thank you. Are there ever costs that you would
need to pay, if so, if you wereon the lease and you give this
notice about leaving the tenancybecause of your experiencing
violence, are there any feesthat you might be liable for?
Lehana (TUNSW) (12:18):
So, if you are exiting using a "domestic
violence termination notice",your rent liability should stop
on the date that you give thatvalid notice. You shouldn't have
to pay any rent after you'veyou've moved out and you've
given vacant possession andgiven the keys back. So in that
sense, rent should stop. Interms of other types of fees,
(12:41):
like, for example, propertydamage costs that might occur
during the commission of adomestic violence offence, there
is actually a specificprotection in the legislation
that says that people who havebeen involved in a domestic
violence incident, where damagehas occurred are not responsible
(13:05):
for the costs of that damage. Soif, for example, a landlord
tries to claim some part of abond or take somebody to NCAT
for damage relating to theproperty, and that damage
happened during the commissionof a domestic violence offence,
the person who is the victim,survivor in that scenario is not
(13:27):
legally responsible for thatdamage.
Bridget Barker (13:29):
Okay. That's great information to have,
because I'm sure that there isoften damage that happens during
a domestic violence offence andpeople may not be aware that if
they're the victim, that theywould not be liable for that.
What about a break lease fee?Would you be liable for that if
you're serving one of thesenotices?
Lehana (TUNSW) (13:50):
No if you've served the "domestic violence
termination notice" and attachedthe required type of evidence,
you are not liable to pay abreak fee.
Bridget Barker (14:00):
Lehana, what can you do about reclaiming goods
that have been left behind whenyou've left a tenancy because
you've been experiencingdomestic, family or sexual
Lehana (TUNSW) (14:10):
So you do have rights in relation to the goods
violence?
that you have left behind at anyhouse that you've left after a
tenancy, and that is because thelandlord and Agent have
responsibilities to give younotice before they dispose of
(14:30):
any goods that you've left. Thenotice that they have to give
you really depends on the valueof the goods. So for example, if
the goods, some of the goods inthe house, are valued at less
than $1,000 then the landlordhas to give you 14 days notice
(14:51):
verbally before being able todispose of the goods in an
appropriate manner. If thegoods are between $1,000 and
$20,000 then they have to giveyou 28 days' notice in writing.
And then the way that theydispose of those goods has to be
by public auction or privatesale. If the value of the goods
(15:12):
is more than $20,000 then theycan only dispose of those goods
in accordance with orders fromthe Tribunal, but it's always a
good idea as a first step to tryto negotiate a time with the
landlord or agent to collect thegoods from them, and to do that
in writing, so there's a recordof it. And then, if they don't
(15:37):
cooperate with you, you are ableto make an application to the
New South Wales Civil andAdministrative Tribunal for an
order that your goods arereturned or for compensation for
any goods that have not beendealt with properly in
accordance with the UncollectedGoods Act by the landlord.
Bridget Barker (15:55):
Thank you. What about the bond you spoke about,
you know, potentially a landlordtrying to claim the bond, or
part of the bond, because ofdamage that's happened. If you
end a tenancy because you needto leave in this circumstance,
should you be able to claim yourbond back?
Lehana (TUNSW) (16:11):
So, unfortunately with bond claims
in domestic violencecircumstances, it can be very
difficult for tenants who arevictim survivors to get bonds
back from co-tenants who areperpetrators. And that's because
(16:33):
the current process under theAct is that if you are exiting a
tenancy, a co-tenancy, the firststep to try to get your bond
back is to write to theremaining co-tenant to request
that the bond, or your share ofthe bond, gets paid back to you
within 14 days of the writtenrequest. And if that isn't done,
(16:58):
then the next step is to make anapplication to the Tribunal for
an order that your bond is paidback. So that can be difficult
to actually enforce in practice.
Bridget Barker (17:10):
Yes, and also, you can imagine that if you're
in that circumstance, you maynot have the clear presence of
mind to to think about all theseprocesses, because you're,
you're just trying to ensureyour your safety, and perhaps
your children's safety, and thesafety of any pets.
Lehana (TUNSW) (17:31):
Exactly and you maybe wouln't really want to
speak to the person who you'remeant to be, claiming your bond
back from.
Bridget Barker (17:40):
Lehana, what about locks? If you're in the
situation where you are able toexclude a co-tenant because
you're able to get a finalapprehended domestic violence
order, are you able to get alandlord's permission to change
the locks so that they can'treturn to the property?
Lehana (TUNSW) (18:02):
Yeah, so as a victim survivor, the law allows
you to change the locks if theoffender's tenancy was
terminated or they were excludedfrom your home by a domestic
violence order. So the Actallows anyone to change locks in
an emergency. For example, ifsomebody has threatened to hurt
(18:24):
you or your child. And there'salso government programs
available to get assistance tochange the locks or to improve
the security of your home incircumstances of domestic
violence. There's the StayingHome Leaving Violence program,
for example. But one thing tojust remember when thinking
about changing the locks iswhether or not the person who
(18:47):
you are in a co-tenancy with,who might be the offender is
still a tenant, or whether theirtenancy has ended or not,
because they might still have aright to live in the property
and be locked out. And and sothat's something that it would
be a good idea to get adviceabout. You can still change the
(19:08):
locks if it's an emergency, butto any implications of that, if
the person is still a tenant, itwould be good to get advice from
a tenant service about that.
Bridget Barker (19:17):
Yes, and I think in all these circumstances that
we're discussing, that would beimportant for people to get
advice from their local tenancyadvice service, just to make
sure that they understand theprocess and know what what they
need to do in terms of what theResidential Tenancies Act says.
(19:41):
What about pets? Is there anyanything people can do if they
want to take their pets withthem?
Lehana (TUNSW) (19:48):
So there are support services available to
maybe get help with pets insituations of domestic
Bridget Barker (20:14):
And what about if you have been included on a
tenancy database because ofproperty damage that might have
happened during a tenancy whereyou are living with a
perpetrator of violence, andyou're the victim of that
violence. Is there anything youcan do to remove your name from
(20:35):
a tenancy database? Becauseobviously that would create
problems for you trying to enterinto another tenancy.
Lehana (TUNSW) (20:42):
Yeah, yeah. Well, the landlord cannot list
tenants who ended a lease bygiving a domestic violence
termination notice on a tenantdatabase. They're not allowed to
do that. And they, the landlordalso can't disclose the
information that you provided inthe domestic violence
termination to anyone else. It'sconfidential. And so really, if
(21:07):
you feel like you've been listedon a tenancy database and you
shouldn't have been, then youcan make an application to NCAT
to have the listing removedbecause it is unjust in the
circumstances. And so you mighteven be in a situation where
you've ended the tenancy becauseof domestic violence, but
(21:28):
haven't used a domestic violencetermination notice. So
currently, there is no explicitprotection against database
listings if you unless you haveissued the domestic violence
termination notice. So if you'rein that scenario, you have left
because of domestic violence,but you used another way of
terminating the tenancy, not the"domestic violence termination
(21:51):
notice". You can still apply toNCAT to have the listing removed
because it's unjust in thecircumstances and because it's
causing you disadvantage.
Bridget Barker (22:02):
Are there any different rules that might apply
for a tenant who is living insocial housing, so public
housing or community housing? Isthere any change in the things
that they would need to do ifthey need to leave because
they're experiencing domestic,family or sexual violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (22:21):
The short answer is no. The domestic violence
provisions relating totermination notices, they still
apply to social housing tenantsand landlords. So you can still
give a domestic violencetermination notice in the same
way as you would in a privatetenancy in a social housing
tenancy. I guess one of thethings to, that is different for
(22:46):
social housing tenants, in termsof what I've mentioned so far,
is the exemption from listing ona tenancy database, and that's
because many social housinglandlords don't use those
tenancy databases. They havetheir own databases, their own
classification lists and waitinglists, and so the protection
(23:09):
against listing on a databasedoesn't apply in the same way.
But, all of the otherprotections in relation to
domestic violence related damageand protection from liability
for that domestic violencetermination notices. They all
still apply to social housingtenants.
Bridget Barker (23:29):
Thank you. What about if you are a social
housing tenant and you receivean adverse listing as a
consequence of living in asituation involving domestic,
family or sexual violence? Isthere anything you can do to ask
the social housing provider toremove your name from an adverse
(23:49):
listing?
Lehana (TUNSW) (23:51):
Yeah, so social housing providers have
discretion about issues like anddecisions that they make, such
as your classification as aformer tenant and whether or not
you're eligible for the socialhousing wait list. And so it
would be a good idea to getadvice if you find that you have
somehow been made ineligible fora social housing wait list or
(24:14):
received an adverseclassification as a former
tenant of social housing that'spreventing you from going on the
wait list. And so it's a goodidea to get advice as a first
step on how to deal with that,and also to communicate with the
social housing landlord inwriting that you, the reasons
that, for example, the damagethat might have occurred during
(24:38):
a commission of a domesticviolence offense. So explaining
why some of those things thatmight have arisen that have led
to the wrongful classificationof you, on this, on the wait
list. Just explaining thosethings in writing is another
good idea, so that the housingprovider can exercise their
(24:59):
discretion to adjust your statuson the wait list.
Bridget Barker (25:05):
I imagine, too, that there would be an appeal
process against that sort ofclassification if, if the
housing provider chooses not toexercise their discretion in
your favour?
Lehana (TUNSW) (25:17):
Definitely. So if you are unhappy with any
decision really, that the socialhousing provider is has made in
relation to your classification,your eligibility for social
housing, you can firstly appealinternally to that provider, and
the next step after that wouldbe making an appeal application
(25:39):
to the Housing AppealsCommittee, which is an
independent body that reviewsthe decisions of public and
community housing landlords.
Bridget Barker (25:50):
Do you have any advice or suggestions for
community or support workers, orindeed, domestic violence
specialist workers who might besupporting women to leave a
tenancy, or who may have justleft a tenancy. Do you have any
tips for those workers aboutwhat they could do to support
(26:12):
those clients they're workingwith?
Lehana (TUNSW) (26:14):
Yea definitely. So I think if you are a support
worker, it is possible that youfit within one of the categories
of a competent person. So if itis a "competent person
declaration" is needed by youryour client, and they really
have no other way of getting anyof the other types of legal
evidence, you can complete theform the "competent person's
(26:36):
declaration form "for them.That's so that's one way to
provide support. I thinkanother way to provide support
would be just referrals to otherservices like counselling
services, tenants advice andadvocacy services, the pet
services, if needed. Just beingaware of what is out there, and
(27:00):
we do have on our fact sheetsquite a number of different
places or referral places thatmight be useful for somebody who
is experiencing domesticviolence and needs assistance
with housing, and so just beingaware of those services and
knowing where might be helpfulto refer your client, and also
just, it could be helpful to sitwith your client if they're
(27:23):
comfortable and enough to gothrough a chronology of what
happened in the domesticviolence incident or
circumstances, so that there's awritten record of what they've
experienced so that they don'tneed to keep telling other
support workers every time ithappens and sort of be
re-traumatized, that there mightbe a chronology that they can
(27:45):
point to to each service thatthey go to. So helping them with
that could also be helpful.
Bridget Barker (27:52):
Thank you, Lehana. You mentioned the
Tenants' Union fact sheets, andI know how wonderful they are.
They're available on yourwebsite. Would you please let
our audience know the websiteaddress where people can find
that information?
Lehana (TUNSW) (28:06):
Yeah, of course. So our website is tenants.org.au
t, e n, a n, t, s.org.au. Wehave a fact sheet on domestic
Bridget Barker (28:10):
That's great, because it's not always easy to
violence. That's our fact sheet12, but also a Supplementary
remember the detail, so beingable to refer to the fact sheet
Guide which provides additionalinformation on things like the
"domestic violence terminationnotices", declarations by
is good. And for workers whomight want to refer their client
competent persons, and alsoother options available to
(28:30):
victim survivors under tenancylaw, and it also summarises the
legal options for co-tenants,sub tenants and head tenants. So
for legal advice, would it becorrect to say that most tenancy
for different types of legalarrangements.
advice and advocacy services,with a client's permission,
(28:55):
would be happy to have asupportworker join in an appointment
where they're advising theclient in that situation?
Lehana (TUNSW) (29:13):
Yeah, I definitely think that most
Bridget Barker (29:28):
And Lehana, if a support worker is trying to find
out where the closest tenancyadvice and Advocacy Service is,
services would be happy to havea support person present, as
they can find that informationon the Tenants' Union website.
Can't they?
Lehana (TUNSW) (29:41):
They can. Just by going to tenants.org.au
there's a "get advice" button,and just if you put the tenant's
postcode into that, their localservice and the contact details
will come up.
long as they had consent fromthe tenant to discuss the matter
Bridget Barker (29:51):
That's great. And I'll just let our audience
know that we will include in theShow Notes for this episode
with the support worker present.That's something that happens
links to the website and thefact sheets that you've
commonly.
mentioned. Lehana is thereanything else that you would
like to add on this topic?
Lehana (TUNSW) (30:07):
The law is adapting and evolving to better
meet the needs of people who areexperiencing domestic violence
with their housing. One of thethings that it's good to know is
that the Act, those changes thatwere introduced in terms of use
of "domestic violencetermination notices", the
protections against damage thatoccurred sorry, liability for
damage that occurred during adomestic violence incident.
(30:30):
Those are all being reviewed.And recently there was a round
table discussion to progressthat review, and they are
looking at some key changes toimprove these laws. So things
like expanding the list ofcompetent persons, further.
Broadening protections againstliability for all renters
(30:51):
experiencing domestic violence.And perhaps most significantly,
tackling some of thosechallenges relating to bonds for
renters leaving in circumstancesof domestic violence there. I
mentioned, it's not a very, theprocess currently doesn't have a
lot of utility, so trying toimprove the laws, and so
hopefully we see more of thatchange happening in the next
couple of years.
Bridget Barker (31:14):
Thanks so much for giving me your time and
recording this episode with us.We really appreciate it.
Lehana (TUNSW) (31:20):
Anytime.
Bridget Barker (31:23):
That was our guest, Lehana De Silva from the
Tenants' Union of New SouthWales. This has been episode 2
of 'Til the Violence Ends. Ifyou or someone you know is being
impacted by domestic, family orsexual violence, please call the
DV hotline on 1800 656 463 or1800 RESPECT that's 1800 737
(31:49):
732. one 873 or the Men's Lineon 1300 789 978. If you're in an
emergency situation, pleasealways call triple zero. Thank
you for listening.
This is a Law for Community Workers podcast.
Legal Aid NSW acknowledges thatall our podcasts are recorded on
Aboriginal lands across NewSouth Wales. We pay our respects
to all traditional owners andcustodians of those lands, and
extend that respect to Elderspast and present, as well as to
(00:23):
any Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslander listeners joining us
today. Always was, always willbe.
Welcome to Episode 2 of our newseries 'Til the Violence Ends, a
series for community and supportworkers to gain insight from
experts found in domestic,family and sexual violence
services. This second episode isabout domestic violence and
(00:45):
tenancy.
Lehana from the Tenants' Unionof New South Wales provides
answers to questions such as,how can you leave a tenancy if
you're experiencing domesticviolence, what are your rights
and what do you need to do toleave or to have a perpetrator
of domestic violence excluded.The information provided in this
(01:05):
episode is correct at the timeof recording and should be
regarded as information only andnot legal advice. Please see our
show notes for a breakdown ofthe episode along with
information and links toresources mentioned in today's
episode.
Lehana, welcome to our newpodcast series about domestic,
(01:28):
family and sexual violence.Would you please let our
audience know about the Tenants'Union of New South Wales where
you work and what your role isthere?
Lehana (TUNSW) (01:39):
Thanks, Bridget my role is as the Solicitor,
Aboriginal support at theTenants' Union. So I work in the
legal team of the Tenants'Union, which is a Community
Legal Centre that specializes inNew South Wales residential
tenancy law. The Tenants' Unionis the main resourcing body for
the tenants advice and advocacyservices across the state, and
(02:02):
we work to promote the interestsof tenants across New South
Wales through advocacy,campaigning and law reform
Bridget Barker (02:09):
Thank you. So today, we invited you to speak
with us to learn a bit aboutwhat the tenancy law says if
someone is experiencingdomestic, family and sexual
violence, and how they might beable to leave a tenancy, and
what their options are. Ifsomebody wants to end a tenancy
because they are in thatsituation, what can they do?
Lehana (TUNSW) (02:32):
Yeah, so there are many different ways to leave
a tenancy, but in 2019 reformswere introduced to the
Residential Tenancies Act, whichintroduced a new way of
terminating a tenancy called a"domestic violence termination
notice". And what that means isthat by giving this notice in
(02:54):
writing to any co-tenants and toyour landlord, you can
immediately terminate yourtenancy without giving a notice
period or serving a noticeperiod. And so what the process
of the "domestic violencetermination notice" involves is
(03:15):
giving the notice specifying thedate on which you would like the
tenancy to end, and alsoattaching a type of evidence to
the notice. The evidence onlyhas to be attached to the copy
of the notice that you give tothe landlord or agent, and not
to your other co tenants.
Bridget Barker (03:35):
Okay. Thank you. Would you mind outlining the
sorts of evidence that would beacceptable when you serve one of
these notices?
Lehana (TUNSW) (03:45):
Yeah, so the there's four types of evidence,
and you only need to attach oneof these types. So one is a
certificate of conviction, ofcriminal conviction for the
domestic violence offence thathas to have arisen during the
current tenancy agreement. Thesecond type of evidence is a
domestic violence order, and hasto be one that is in force.
Bridget Barker (04:09):
Can I ask you there, when you say domestic
violence order, what kind oforders are they?
Lehana (TUNSW) (04:14):
So domestic violence order there's, there's
two types of, what we callapprehended violence orders that
you can get against an offender.There's an apprehended personal
violence order and anapprehended domestic violence
order. So an apprehendedpersonal violence order, those
are the ones made betweenindividuals who are not in a
(04:35):
domestic relationship. Thatmight be like co workers, for
example. But what I'm talkingabout in this context of the
evidence type is an apprehendeddomestic violence order, which
is an order that protectsindividuals in a domestic
relationship.
Bridget Barker (04:51):
Thank you. And I think there's two other types of
evidence that you could attachto one of these orders?
Lehana (TUNSW) (04:57):
Yes. So one is a family law injunction under the
Family Law Act relating to thathas been made so as a result of
family violence. And again, thathas to be an injunction that is
in force at the time that yougive the notice of termination.
And finally, one of the mostcommonly used types of evidence
(05:18):
is a "declaration of competentpersons". It's a way to provide
the evidence required for adomestic violence termination
notice that does not requirepersons to speak to or engage
with the legal system at all.And so what they are able to do
is to go to a specific type ofprofessional that it could be,
(05:41):
for example, a doctor, a healthprofessional, such as a nurse, a
pharmacist, a psychologist. Youcould also go to a social worker
who was a member of theAustralian Association of Social
Workers, an employee of a NewSouth Wales government agency
that works in child protection,or employees of non government
(06:02):
agencies that. Receivegovernment funding to provide
services relating to domesticviolence, sexual assault or
refuge or emergencyaccommodation, and also an
approved counselor is acompetent person. And so what
you would do if you wanted thattype of evidence is you would go
to that professional and consultwith them and ask them to fill
(06:25):
out the declaration by acompetent person form, and they
would sign that and you wouldattach that to the termination
notice.
Bridget Barker (06:36):
Okay, but you only have to serve that evidence
on the landlord, not on anyother co-tenants. Is that right?
Lehana (TUNSW) (06:43):
Correct. So tenants do not have to attach
any of that evidence to atermination notice that they
give to any other co-tenants,but they do have to give a copy
of the termination notice to theco-tenants.
Bridget Barker (06:53):
Okay, thank you. What if the person who is a
victim of domestic and familyviolence doesn't want to leave?
Are they able to follow aprocess to evict the person who
is the perpetrator of violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (07:09):
There are a couple of ways that somebody can
stay in their tenancy and try toend the tenancy of the
perpetrator. One way is to get afinal apprehended domestic
violence order, and that finalorder has to have what's called
(07:29):
an exclusion order in it,meaning that there's actually an
order excluding the perpetratorfrom attending the premises of
the tenancy, and if you havethat final AVO that
automatically ends the tenancyof the perpetrator if they had a
tenancy with you. The other waythat you can end the tenancy of
(07:53):
a perpetrator while staying inthe property is by applying to
the New South Wales Civil andAdministrative Tribunal, or
NCAT, we call it, which is ait's sort of like a court. It's
meant to be less formal, andit's where many tenancy disputes
are resolved in New South Wales,and you can make an application
(08:15):
ending the co-tenants agreement"in the special circumstances of
the case."
Bridget Barker (08:21):
Okay, and presumably those situations
you've just outlined are onlyapply if you're named on the
lease that you have?
Lehana (TUNSW) (08:30):
Yeah, that's right.
Bridget Barker (08:31):
Thank you. Lehana, what happens if you
experience domestic, family,sexual violence and you're a
sub-tenant?
Lehana (TUNSW) (08:40):
So really, the answer to that question depends
on whether or not you have awritten agreement to live in the
property or not as a sub-tenant,and that's because if you have a
written agreement as asub-tenant, then you are covered
by the Residential TenanciesAct, and then all of the rules
that would apply to tenantsaround domestic violence
(09:01):
termination notices, forexample, would also apply to you
as a sub-tenant. But if you area sub-tenant and you do not have
a written agreement to live inthe property, then the Act does
not apply to you, theResidential Tenancies Act. And
so in that scenario, I wouldrecommend getting advice, but
(09:23):
also obviously, to leave anyunsafe situation. It's a really
good idea, even if you're notcovered by the Act, to make it
clear in writing to the personthat you are renting from why
you are leaving, so that thereis a written record of the
reason that you're ending youragreement with them.
Bridget Barker (09:42):
Okay, so that that would help prevent you from
being liable for any potentialongoing rent, if you've made it
clear that that's the reasonthat you're leaving?
Lehana (TUNSW) (09:53):
It would and it would, it would also be a good
idea in this situation to getlegal advice, just because your
legal status really depends onthe specific circumstances of
your situation. If you don'thave a written agreement that
you can point to, it really canbe quite unclear sometimes, in
terms of what your rights andobligations are, so it's a good
idea to get advice.
Bridget Barker (10:12):
Okay, so what about if you fall into a
different category, such as ifyou were a lodger or a guest,
and you need to leave becauseyou're experiencing domestic,
family or sexual violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (10:27):
So if you're a boarder or lodger your you might
be covered under the BoardingHouses Act. It really depends on
what your specific circumstancesare. And the reason I say that
is because sometimes you have aboarding or lodging situation
that looks very much like atenancy agreement and could be a
tenancy agreement. So if you areunsure about the type of
(10:50):
agreement you have and whetheror not it's a tenancy, I would
encourage anyone in thatsituation to get advice, so
legal advice, to look at thespecific circumstances of the
case, of what was agreed to.You know, things like "Is rent
being paid? Who else is livingin the house?" All of those
factors can determine whethersomething looks more like a
(11:11):
tenancy or more like a boardinghouse. If you're but in either
case, you if you are in acircumstance of domestic
violence, while the BoardingHouses Act doesn't have similar
provisions to the ResidentialTenancies Act when it comes to
ending a tenancy for domesticviolence, if you were in an
unsafe situation, you shouldstill prioritize your safety.
(11:37):
Exit and leave the tenancy orexit the arrangement, I should
say, and just make it known tothe person who you're renting
from, or you're, who you're, whois in charge of the agreement or
providing the agreement that youare exiting for this reason, for
the reason of domestic violence,and give that notice to them in
(12:01):
writing.
Bridget Barker (12:02):
Thank you. Are there ever costs that you would
need to pay, if so, if you wereon the lease and you give this
notice about leaving the tenancybecause of your experiencing
violence, are there any feesthat you might be liable for?
Lehana (TUNSW) (12:18):
So, if you are exiting using a "domestic
violence termination notice",your rent liability should stop
on the date that you give thatvalid notice. You shouldn't have
to pay any rent after you'veyou've moved out and you've
given vacant possession andgiven the keys back. So in that
sense, rent should stop. Interms of other types of fees,
(12:41):
like, for example, propertydamage costs that might occur
during the commission of adomestic violence offence, there
is actually a specificprotection in the legislation
that says that people who havebeen involved in a domestic
violence incident, where damagehas occurred are not responsible
(13:05):
for the costs of that damage. Soif, for example, a landlord
tries to claim some part of abond or take somebody to NCAT
for damage relating to theproperty, and that damage
happened during the commissionof a domestic violence offence,
the person who is the victim,survivor in that scenario is not
(13:27):
legally responsible for thatdamage.
Bridget Barker (13:29):
Okay. That's great information to have,
because I'm sure that there isoften damage that happens during
a domestic violence offence andpeople may not be aware that if
they're the victim, that theywould not be liable for that.
What about a break lease fee?Would you be liable for that if
you're serving one of thesenotices?
Lehana (TUNSW) (13:50):
No if you've served the "domestic violence
termination notice" and attachedthe required type of evidence,
you are not liable to pay abreak fee.
Bridget Barker (14:00):
Lehana, what can you do about reclaiming goods
that have been left behind whenyou've left a tenancy because
you've been experiencingdomestic, family or sexual
Lehana (TUNSW) (14:10):
So you do have rights in relation to the goods
violence?
that you have left behind at anyhouse that you've left after a
tenancy, and that is because thelandlord and Agent have
responsibilities to give younotice before they dispose of
(14:30):
any goods that you've left. Thenotice that they have to give
you really depends on the valueof the goods. So for example, if
the goods, some of the goods inthe house, are valued at less
than $1,000 then the landlordhas to give you 14 days notice
(14:51):
verbally before being able todispose of the goods in an
appropriate manner. If thegoods are between $1,000 and
$20,000 then they have to giveyou 28 days' notice in writing.
And then the way that theydispose of those goods has to be
by public auction or privatesale. If the value of the goods
(15:12):
is more than $20,000 then theycan only dispose of those goods
in accordance with orders fromthe Tribunal, but it's always a
good idea as a first step to tryto negotiate a time with the
landlord or agent to collect thegoods from them, and to do that
in writing, so there's a recordof it. And then, if they don't
(15:37):
cooperate with you, you are ableto make an application to the
New South Wales Civil andAdministrative Tribunal for an
order that your goods arereturned or for compensation for
any goods that have not beendealt with properly in
accordance with the UncollectedGoods Act by the landlord.
Bridget Barker (15:55):
Thank you. What about the bond you spoke about,
you know, potentially a landlordtrying to claim the bond, or
part of the bond, because ofdamage that's happened. If you
end a tenancy because you needto leave in this circumstance,
should you be able to claim yourbond back?
Lehana (TUNSW) (16:11):
So, unfortunately with bond claims
in domestic violencecircumstances, it can be very
difficult for tenants who arevictim survivors to get bonds
back from co-tenants who areperpetrators. And that's because
(16:33):
the current process under theAct is that if you are exiting a
tenancy, a co-tenancy, the firststep to try to get your bond
back is to write to theremaining co-tenant to request
that the bond, or your share ofthe bond, gets paid back to you
within 14 days of the writtenrequest. And if that isn't done,
(16:58):
then the next step is to make anapplication to the Tribunal for
an order that your bond is paidback. So that can be difficult
to actually enforce in practice.
Bridget Barker (17:10):
Yes, and also, you can imagine that if you're
in that circumstance, you maynot have the clear presence of
mind to to think about all theseprocesses, because you're,
you're just trying to ensureyour your safety, and perhaps
your children's safety, and thesafety of any pets.
Lehana (TUNSW) (17:31):
Exactly and you maybe wouln't really want to
speak to the person who you'remeant to be, claiming your bond
back from.
Bridget Barker (17:40):
Lehana, what about locks? If you're in the
situation where you are able toexclude a co-tenant because
you're able to get a finalapprehended domestic violence
order, are you able to get alandlord's permission to change
the locks so that they can'treturn to the property?
Lehana (TUNSW) (18:02):
Yeah, so as a victim survivor, the law allows
you to change the locks if theoffender's tenancy was
terminated or they were excludedfrom your home by a domestic
violence order. So the Actallows anyone to change locks in
an emergency. For example, ifsomebody has threatened to hurt
(18:24):
you or your child. And there'salso government programs
available to get assistance tochange the locks or to improve
the security of your home incircumstances of domestic
violence. There's the StayingHome Leaving Violence program,
for example. But one thing tojust remember when thinking
about changing the locks iswhether or not the person who
(18:47):
you are in a co-tenancy with,who might be the offender is
still a tenant, or whether theirtenancy has ended or not,
because they might still have aright to live in the property
and be locked out. And and sothat's something that it would
be a good idea to get adviceabout. You can still change the
(19:08):
locks if it's an emergency, butto any implications of that, if
the person is still a tenant, itwould be good to get advice from
a tenant service about that.
Bridget Barker (19:17):
Yes, and I think in all these circumstances that
we're discussing, that would beimportant for people to get
advice from their local tenancyadvice service, just to make
sure that they understand theprocess and know what what they
need to do in terms of what theResidential Tenancies Act says.
(19:41):
What about pets? Is there anyanything people can do if they
want to take their pets withthem?
Lehana (TUNSW) (19:48):
So there are support services available to
maybe get help with pets insituations of domestic
Bridget Barker (20:14):
And what about if you have been included on a
tenancy database because ofproperty damage that might have
happened during a tenancy whereyou are living with a
perpetrator of violence, andyou're the victim of that
violence. Is there anything youcan do to remove your name from
(20:35):
a tenancy database? Becauseobviously that would create
problems for you trying to enterinto another tenancy.
Lehana (TUNSW) (20:42):
Yeah, yeah. Well, the landlord cannot list
tenants who ended a lease bygiving a domestic violence
termination notice on a tenantdatabase. They're not allowed to
do that. And they, the landlordalso can't disclose the
information that you provided inthe domestic violence
termination to anyone else. It'sconfidential. And so really, if
(21:07):
you feel like you've been listedon a tenancy database and you
shouldn't have been, then youcan make an application to NCAT
to have the listing removedbecause it is unjust in the
circumstances. And so you mighteven be in a situation where
you've ended the tenancy becauseof domestic violence, but
(21:28):
haven't used a domestic violencetermination notice. So
currently, there is no explicitprotection against database
listings if you unless you haveissued the domestic violence
termination notice. So if you'rein that scenario, you have left
because of domestic violence,but you used another way of
terminating the tenancy, not the"domestic violence termination
(21:51):
notice". You can still apply toNCAT to have the listing removed
because it's unjust in thecircumstances and because it's
causing you disadvantage.
Bridget Barker (22:02):
Are there any different rules that might apply
for a tenant who is living insocial housing, so public
housing or community housing? Isthere any change in the things
that they would need to do ifthey need to leave because
they're experiencing domestic,family or sexual violence?
Lehana (TUNSW) (22:21):
The short answer is no. The domestic violence
provisions relating totermination notices, they still
apply to social housing tenantsand landlords. So you can still
give a domestic violencetermination notice in the same
way as you would in a privatetenancy in a social housing
tenancy. I guess one of thethings to, that is different for
(22:46):
social housing tenants, in termsof what I've mentioned so far,
is the exemption from listing ona tenancy database, and that's
because many social housinglandlords don't use those
tenancy databases. They havetheir own databases, their own
classification lists and waitinglists, and so the protection
(23:09):
against listing on a databasedoesn't apply in the same way.
But, all of the otherprotections in relation to
domestic violence related damageand protection from liability
for that domestic violencetermination notices. They all
still apply to social housingtenants.
Bridget Barker (23:29):
Thank you. What about if you are a social
housing tenant and you receivean adverse listing as a
consequence of living in asituation involving domestic,
family or sexual violence? Isthere anything you can do to ask
the social housing provider toremove your name from an adverse
(23:49):
listing?
Lehana (TUNSW) (23:51):
Yeah, so social housing providers have
discretion about issues like anddecisions that they make, such
as your classification as aformer tenant and whether or not
you're eligible for the socialhousing wait list. And so it
would be a good idea to getadvice if you find that you have
somehow been made ineligible fora social housing wait list or
(24:14):
received an adverseclassification as a former
tenant of social housing that'spreventing you from going on the
wait list. And so it's a goodidea to get advice as a first
step on how to deal with that,and also to communicate with the
social housing landlord inwriting that you, the reasons
that, for example, the damagethat might have occurred during
(24:38):
a commission of a domesticviolence offense. So explaining
why some of those things thatmight have arisen that have led
to the wrongful classificationof you, on this, on the wait
list. Just explaining thosethings in writing is another
good idea, so that the housingprovider can exercise their
(24:59):
discretion to adjust your statuson the wait list.
Bridget Barker (25:05):
I imagine, too, that there would be an appeal
process against that sort ofclassification if, if the
housing provider chooses not toexercise their discretion in
your favour?
Lehana (TUNSW) (25:17):
Definitely. So if you are unhappy with any
decision really, that the socialhousing provider is has made in
relation to your classification,your eligibility for social
housing, you can firstly appealinternally to that provider, and
the next step after that wouldbe making an appeal application
(25:39):
to the Housing AppealsCommittee, which is an
independent body that reviewsthe decisions of public and
community housing landlords.
Bridget Barker (25:50):
Do you have any advice or suggestions for
community or support workers, orindeed, domestic violence
specialist workers who might besupporting women to leave a
tenancy, or who may have justleft a tenancy. Do you have any
tips for those workers aboutwhat they could do to support
(26:12):
those clients they're workingwith?
Lehana (TUNSW) (26:14):
Yea definitely. So I think if you are a support
worker, it is possible that youfit within one of the categories
of a competent person. So if itis a "competent person
declaration" is needed by youryour client, and they really
have no other way of getting anyof the other types of legal
evidence, you can complete theform the "competent person's
(26:36):
declaration form "for them.That's so that's one way to
provide support. I thinkanother way to provide support
would be just referrals to otherservices like counselling
services, tenants advice andadvocacy services, the pet
services, if needed. Just beingaware of what is out there, and
(27:00):
we do have on our fact sheetsquite a number of different
places or referral places thatmight be useful for somebody who
is experiencing domesticviolence and needs assistance
with housing, and so just beingaware of those services and
knowing where might be helpfulto refer your client, and also
just, it could be helpful to sitwith your client if they're
(27:23):
comfortable and enough to gothrough a chronology of what
happened in the domesticviolence incident or
circumstances, so that there's awritten record of what they've
experienced so that they don'tneed to keep telling other
support workers every time ithappens and sort of be
re-traumatized, that there mightbe a chronology that they can
(27:45):
point to to each service thatthey go to. So helping them with
that could also be helpful.
Bridget Barker (27:52):
Thank you, Lehana. You mentioned the
Tenants' Union fact sheets, andI know how wonderful they are.
They're available on yourwebsite. Would you please let
our audience know the websiteaddress where people can find
that information?
Lehana (TUNSW) (28:06):
Yeah, of course. So our website is tenants.org.au
t, e n, a n, t, s.org.au. Wehave a fact sheet on domestic
Bridget Barker (28:10):
That's great, because it's not always easy to
violence. That's our fact sheet12, but also a Supplementary
remember the detail, so beingable to refer to the fact sheet
Guide which provides additionalinformation on things like the
"domestic violence terminationnotices", declarations by
is good. And for workers whomight want to refer their client
competent persons, and alsoother options available to
(28:30):
victim survivors under tenancylaw, and it also summarises the
legal options for co-tenants,sub tenants and head tenants. So
for legal advice, would it becorrect to say that most tenancy
for different types of legalarrangements.
advice and advocacy services,with a client's permission,
(28:55):
would be happy to have asupportworker join in an appointment
where they're advising theclient in that situation?
Lehana (TUNSW) (29:13):
Yeah, I definitely think that most
Bridget Barker (29:28):
And Lehana, if a support worker is trying to find
out where the closest tenancyadvice and Advocacy Service is,
services would be happy to havea support person present, as
they can find that informationon the Tenants' Union website.
Can't they?
Lehana (TUNSW) (29:41):
They can. Just by going to tenants.org.au
there's a "get advice" button,and just if you put the tenant's
postcode into that, their localservice and the contact details
will come up.
long as they had consent fromthe tenant to discuss the matter
Bridget Barker (29:51):
That's great. And I'll just let our audience
know that we will include in theShow Notes for this episode
with the support worker present.That's something that happens
links to the website and thefact sheets that you've
commonly.
mentioned. Lehana is thereanything else that you would
like to add on this topic?
Lehana (TUNSW) (30:07):
The law is adapting and evolving to better
meet the needs of people who areexperiencing domestic violence
with their housing. One of thethings that it's good to know is
that the Act, those changes thatwere introduced in terms of use
of "domestic violencetermination notices", the
protections against damage thatoccurred sorry, liability for
damage that occurred during adomestic violence incident.
(30:30):
Those are all being reviewed.And recently there was a round
table discussion to progressthat review, and they are
looking at some key changes toimprove these laws. So things
like expanding the list ofcompetent persons, further.
Broadening protections againstliability for all renters
(30:51):
experiencing domestic violence.And perhaps most significantly,
tackling some of thosechallenges relating to bonds for
renters leaving in circumstancesof domestic violence there. I
mentioned, it's not a very, theprocess currently doesn't have a
lot of utility, so trying toimprove the laws, and so
hopefully we see more of thatchange happening in the next
couple of years.
Bridget Barker (31:14):
Thanks so much for giving me your time and
recording this episode with us.We really appreciate it.
Lehana (TUNSW) (31:20):
Anytime.
Bridget Barker (31:23):
That was our guest, Lehana De Silva from the
Tenants' Union of New SouthWales. This has been episode 2
of 'Til the Violence Ends. Ifyou or someone you know is being
impacted by domestic, family orsexual violence, please call the
DV hotline on 1800 656 463 or1800 RESPECT that's 1800 737
(31:49):
732. one 873 or the Men's Lineon 1300 789 978. If you're in an
emergency situation, pleasealways call triple zero. Thank
you for listening.
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