'Til the violence ends - Episode 5: Domestic violence and pets - Lucy's Project - Law for Community Workers

Episode Transcript
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Yasmine (00:00):
Australia has one of the highest levels of animal
ownership in the world, withover two thirds of households
having at least one animal. Butwhat this also means is that in
cases of family and domesticviolence, animals are also
impacted. In many cases,suffering abuse and also being a
factor in making it difficultfor people to leave abusive

(00:22):
situations. Welcome to Law forCommunity Workers. This is
episode five of our series ‘Tillthe Violence Ends, where we
share insights from experts inthe domestic and family violence
space. In this episode, Bridgetchats to Alison Waters about the
impacts and legal changessurrounding pets and animals.

(00:42):
Alison is the policy advocacyand research lead at Lucy's
Project. Lucy's Project is anational charity that aims to
improve the safety of people andanimals experiencing domestic
and family violence throughcollaboration, advocacy,
research and education. Thisepisode was produced on the
lands of the Gadigal people, andwe pay our respects to Elders

(01:04):
past and present, as we share ineducation today. May we
acknowledge Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people as
the first storytellers,lawmakers and educators. As a
reminder, this podcast isgeneral information only and
can't be relied on as legaladvice. It's accurate at the
time of posting, but may havechanged if you're listening at a

(01:24):
later date. If you or someoneyou know needs legal assistance
about a particular situation,start with our team at Law
Access New South Wales via webchat at legalaid.nsw.gov.au or call
1300 888 529.

Bridget Barker (01:41):
Alison, welcome to the podcast. Our podcast
series ‘Till the Violence Endsis focusing on domestic, family
and sexual violence, and I'mdelighted to have you agree to
speak to us about Lucy'sProject. Would you please tell
us how Lucy's Project cameabout? The background to it?

Alison Waters (02:02):
Sure. So, Lucy's Project is currently a national
charity. It was founded inLismore, in the Northern Rivers
of New South Wales, in about2013 and it was founded by a
woman named Anna Ludwig, and shehad been volunteering at the
local Community Legal Centerworking on some animal law type

(02:24):
matters, and was very interestedin those issues. And sadly, Anna
had a stillbirth with herdaughter Lucy, and decided that
she wanted to create somethingpositive out of the grief and
enormous loss of her daughter,and she founded Lucy's project,

(02:45):
and the idea was to advocate andsupport women, children and
animals who are experiencingviolence, specifically domestic
and family violence. So, that ishow the organization was
founded. It's largely been runas a volunteer organization. A
couple of years ago, theorganization secured some

(03:06):
funding from the New South Walesgovernment, which allowed it to
employ some staff so I came onboard last year as a result of
that funding to work onadvocacy, policy and research.

Why do we need services like Lucy's project, I
guess what I'm really asking is,what's the connection between
animals and domestic and familyviolence?

So we know that in Australia, about 70% of
Australian households sharetheir lives with animals, and
that it is really common forpeople to regard animals as
treasured family members. Wealso sadly know that animal
abuse and domestic and familyviolence frequently co-occur,
and one of the reasons for thisco-occurrence is that

(03:50):
perpetrators of domestic andfamily violence may threaten
harm, kill or neglect animals tocontrol and intimidate women and
children. So the the types ofanimals that are impacted by
violence will include companionanimals, so commonly, what
people would think of as dogs,cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, the
kind of animals that live in ourhomes, farmed animals, so cows,

(04:14):
sheep, goats, large animals likehorses, which is particularly
relevant for people who live inrural and regional areas, also
assistance animals, so animalsthat have a role to support
humans who may have disabilitiesother than other needs for
assistance from an animal, andalso wild animals. So that
includes native and introducedspecies. So we know also that,

(04:40):
unfortunately, perpetratorsmight target an animal for whom
a victim survivor has the mostaffection, so that it might
occur in a multi householdfamily, the perpetrator will
know the animal that the victimsurvivor has the strongest,
strongest bond with, and willexploit that bond to perpetrate
intimidation and coercivecontrol. The types of violence

(05:02):
that we see inflicted byperpetrators of violence on
animals include physical abuse,sexual abuse, emotional and
psychological abuse, neglect andalso verbal abuse. There are a
couple of reasons, well, whyit's really important for us to
understand this, is that thisabuse and violence and threats

(05:24):
of abuse and violence mean thatvictim survivors may delay
leaving a violent partnerbecause they have concerns for
the safety and well-being oftheir animal companions. The
other reason it's important toknow about this issue and take
it seriously is that we knowthat animal abuse can be an
indicator of future, frequent ormore severe forms of intimate

(05:45):
partner violence. So, forexample, the National Risk
Assessment principles fordomestic and family violence
that are from Anrose state thatcruelty and harm directed to
pets and other animals canindicate a risk of future or
more severe violence. So, Isuppose the other reason that
it's also important that that Ialso want to add from Lucy's

(06:08):
Project’s perspective, is thatwe also regard animals as victim
survivors in their own right.So, animals are sentient beings.
They are capable of experiencingsuffering and distress. So, they
are not merely adjuncts to theirhuman family members. Experience
of violence that animals may, infact, be the first target of

(06:28):
violence where a perpetrator istrying to exert coercive control
or intimidation over a woman andchildren. So we think for that
reason, it's also important toprotect animals. So basically,
at Lucy's project, we have anumber of things that we believe
or hold to be true, which isthat people and animals both

(06:49):
have a right to be safe fromviolence. We recognize that the
safety of people and animals isinterconnected, and we think
that people and animals shouldbe supported to heal and recover
together.

Yeah very important. Lucy's project is not
a project that can providefacilities for the care of
animals. The work that you do isseparate to that. Would you
speak about the work that thatthe project does?

Sure so we are a small team. As I said, we're a
national charity. The key aim isto improve the safety and well
being of people and animalsimpacted by domestic and family
violence. So we do this bycollaborating and building
partnerships across sectors. Soacross the human service sector
and the animal welfare sector,we advocate for policy, program

(07:42):
and legislative change. That'smostly my role, and we undertake
and promote research, and wealso deliver education for
services and workers, and thatcan be accessed for free
currently on our website. Togive you some examples of things
that we've worked on recentlywithin the advocacy space, we
have written submissionsrecently. So I've written a

(08:04):
submission to the SouthAustralian Royal Commission into
Domestic, Family and SexualViolence. We've participated in
stakeholder consultation in NewSouth Wales with the recent
amendments that were made to theResidential Tenancies Act,
specifically the section aroundmaking it easier for tenants to

(08:25):
rent with pets. And we've alsobeen involved in the statutory
review of the domestic violenceprovisions in the Residential
Tenancies Act. And we also didsome collaboration with legal
and animal welfare organizationsin Tasmania, which was some
really fantastic work. Tasmaniawas the only jurisdiction that
didn't include acts of animalabuse as potential family

(08:50):
violence. So every otherjurisdiction recognized that
animal abuse could be a form ofdomestic and family violence. So
we advocated in Tasmania, and anindependent member introduced a
private members bill torecognize threats to harm,
actual harm, neglect of ananimal with intention to coerce,
coerce and control a victimsurvivor, recognizing that as an

(09:14):
act of family violence. Andyeah, and we also had, we also
run conferences. So recently,back in October, we had a two
day online conference, and webrought together about 30
practitioners, academics fromthe Human Services and Animal
Welfare space to talk aboutspecific issues such as how the

(09:34):
domestic and family violencesector can support people and
animals to be safe together.What is the role of veterinary
services and animal welfareorganizations? What role can
they play in being a pathway tosafety for women and children
who are experiencing violence?And we also had some people

(09:55):
speak about the really importantrole that animals can play in
helping people to heal andrecover from trauma. And I think
that's another really importantpart that often we don't think
about, is that the family haveexperienced the violence
together, and that whenchildren, for example, may be
separated from their animals, ifthey go into a refuge with their

(10:16):
mum, for example, and the animalcan't be accommodated in that
refuge, that then that placesfurther distress and grief upon
the child, for whom so much haschanged and so much has happened
to then be separated from theirbeloved animal, then compounds
that stress and trauma. And italso does for the animal as
well, who's experienced violenceand then has maybe not been able

(10:40):
to stay with their family. Soyeah, we recognize the
importance of that unit beingable to heal and recover
together.

Out of that two day conference do you think that
there is forward momentum forimproving things for families
and animals in this situation?

Definitely, we had a lot of interest in the
conference. We had people whospoke at the conference who
said, wow, you know the factthat we have two days of topics
that we can talk about here, youknow, 10 years ago, that wasn't
the case, and so felt that itwas a really valuable experience
in that regard. And we're in theprocess right now of putting

(11:17):
together our conference report,because we do have some
recommendations that came out ofthat that were made by
practitioners, that were made bypeople with lived experience of
domestic and family violence andanimal abuse, and people who
were doing research. And wereally want to bring all those
groups together more next year,where we're going to be

(11:37):
organizing a round table so ofresearchers and practitioners to
come together and look at what,what is the research saying, and
where are the gaps that we'renot fulfilling that in our
frontline roles. I think onething that really strongly came
away from the conference is thateveryone, wherever they're
working right now, can becomemore animal, inclusive in their

(11:59):
practice. And what I mean bythat is, if we're asking clients
about their family unit, ifwe're asking a woman, for
example “do you have children?”it's really simple to ask, “do
you have animals?” And to findout who that that woman, that
client regards as her familyunit. Is she concerned for the
safety of her children? Is shecan serve the safety of her

(12:21):
animals. Have the animalsexperienced abuse as well? Are
there any services that theyneed or issues that the animal
is having? So yeah, it's reallyabout, you know, you might not
be a refuge that providesaccommodation to animals. You
might be a court AdvocacyService, for example, or a legal
service or a community service,but you can certainly ask the

(12:43):
question, and I think it'sreally important for clients to
know that we care about whotheir family is. So if a woman
is saying to us, oh yeah, mydog, Toby, is really important
to me, then it's reallyimportant that we uphold that
for her and and ask questionsabout Toby as well, and to show
that we care about her situationand her family unit..

Alison, I know that Lucy's project can't
provide accommodation foranimals or assistance with that,
but because of your experiencein the sector and the work that
you're doing with Lucy'sProject, are you aware of places
that people's animals can becared for, or are there and are
there refuges that exist thatcan accommodate people in their

(13:30):
animals? And is there a movetowards funding for more refuges
of that model?

Yes so in New South Wales, we have what's
called the core and, sorry, coreand cluster system. And the idea
for a core and cluster is thatthere's so women come into the
housing. There's common spaceswhere the women and children can
come together with others, butthey have private spaces, so
private units to live in, andthose units have been designed

(14:02):
to also be animal inclusive, sothat women and children can take
their animals into crisishousing with them. So we know
that some more of those arerolling out across the state as
we speak. So that's obviously apositive move. And in Victoria,
where they implemented core andcluster, they saw a movement

(14:22):
towards more people being ableto be accommodated with their
animals. I think one of thethings is it is difficult if
women have been offered a placein a refuge and they can't take
their animals with them. We knowthat sometimes women will say,
will not take up that place.They don't want to leave part of
their family behind, and theymay then stay living in a car,

(14:44):
or, staying in some other typeof housing that's not safe or
for them and their children andanimals. And we know that in
those situations, if a woman andchild go into a refuge, there
are limited resources about whatcan happen to an animal. RSPCA
have a community domesticviolence program, and the idea

(15:06):
is that animals would beaccommodated in RSPCA
facilities, or if there's not afacility in the local area that
the woman is needing thesupport, that funding would be
provided for boarding in aprivate kennel in in the area
that that the person lives, nottotal funding, so there's still
a contribution that the womanwould be required to make.

(15:28):
Unfortunately, we know at themoment that that RSPCA program
is at peak capacity. They areunable to take any more clients,
so that is a problem. There aresmall organizations who are
trying to pick up the slack.There's one called Paws and
Recover, which started out as aSydney based organization but
now is trying to support victimsurvivors more broadly across

(15:53):
the state. And so that is anorganization that organizes
foster care volunteers willoffer to foster animals within
their own homes, while the womenand children, or woman is in
crisis housing, and then oncecomes out of that and moves into
her own accommodation, the ideais that she'll be reunited with

(16:13):
her animal. I mean, we know thatprivate rental is an issue, and
we think that although therehave been some amendments made
now, we still think that it'sgoing to be difficult to rent in
the private sector. So look,this is really an area that we
really need to focus and theamount of times I spoke to women

(16:34):
in my work as a specialistfrontline domestic violence
worker, and I'd be referringwomen to local refuges, and they
tell me that they have ananimal, and I know that that
refuge doesn't take an animal,and they then don't want to take
up that option, because theydon't want to leave part of
their family behind. So there'sdefinitely so while the core and
cluster is definitely a move inthe right direction, we also

(17:00):
know that, I think this issue ismore widespread than we've ever
known because we don't collectdata. So we don't have the data
to tell us how many people havechosen not to go into a refuge
or take up a service because ithasn't also been able to
accommodate their family member.And we had a couple of

(17:20):
researchers from the AustralianInstitute of Family Studies
spoke at our conference back inOctober. They produced a paper
called Family animals in thecontext of intimate partner
violence, and they highlightedthe need to improve access to
crisis and support services thataccommodate both human and
animal needs.

Yeah, absolutely and on the point of data
collection, it would be ofbenefit for a number of reasons,
to collect data about familiesand animals because of the, you
know, the connection to seriousharm that that can occur.

Yes, and that's very important in a risk
assessment framework as well. Soit is important to be, to be
getting a sense of the violencethat is occurring in the home,
yeah, and to find out what, alsowhat the children may have been
exposed to in that home. It's anexperience of of violence.

(18:15):
Sometimes children have beenforced to participate in
violence against their ownanimals. Sometimes children are
trying to hide their animals toprotect them. So yeah, it's
really important that we get agood sense of what goes on. We
also know that it's sometimeswomen can carry a lot of shame
and embarrassment about theanimal abuse that has occurred

(18:39):
in their home that they haven'tbeen able to stop it. And so we
can't just assume or wait forwomen to tell us that, it's
really important that we ask thequestion so they feel safe, to
tell us that, that we aren'tjudging, that, that we want,
want to get a full picture ofthe violence that's occurred in
the home and and so by askingthe question, we're more likely

(19:00):
to have those disclosures. Andwe need to take the disclosures
of violence against animals asseriously as we would take any
other disclosures of violencethat women make. And we need to
record them down and take themseriously and collate them as
data.

Alison, what about the way that the law, I
guess, particularly family law,regards animals, I think that
we've spoken previously aboutsome changes that you've seen
happen with legislation, whereanimals were previously regarded

(19:39):
as part of a property pool, andnow there's greater recognition
that they're not just a piece ofproperty in that situation.

So, yes, there, there has been a recent
amendment to the Family Law Actthat does recognize a animals
as, I guess, a special categoryof property. So there's a
recognition that peopleobviously want to, want to make
arrangements for their animals.When they're separating. So
essentially, a judge can make adecision about which party will

(20:05):
have the custody of the animal.I think for us, you know, our
concern is that animals aren'trecognized as victims or as
targets of that violence intheir own right, so the only
consideration given to them isreally based on what's happened
to the humans in the situationand their human guardians, not
actually what they have faced interms of the violence

(20:26):
themselves.

I guess the legislation only refers to
companion animals. But whatabout sort of farm animals? Is
there any, are they stillconsidered as part of the pool
of property in thosecircumstances? You know people
who own horses, they wouldconsider them companion animals
in the same way and have thesame love for them, but they'd

(20:48):
probably not be protected in anyway.

Yep so we know women in rural and regional
areas who experience domesticand family violence will face
lots of different barriers, likethe geographical isolation, the
longer waiting lists, the parttime police stations. There's a
lot of issues that women facethat’s unique living in these
areas. I myself, obviously, Imean, I'm in a regional area.

(21:14):
I'm in Lismore, and so I knowthat I would speak to clients
who obviously wanted to findsafety for their animals. Horses
are a really good example. Andyeah, we find that is a lot
harder. There are someorganizations. The Women's
cottage, for example, in theHawkesbury area, has been doing
some great work about formingconnections with property owners

(21:37):
in their area. So they'verecently opened a core and
cluster type model refuge whereanimals can be accommodated. But
they've also formed connectionswith landowners in their area
where horses and larger animalsmight be able to access
adjistment. So you know that'sobviously something that

(21:59):
services could do, is to look atand broaden out their support.
We know that that raises someissues around privacy and safety
as well. If you're in a regionalarea and a horse is a very
specific looking horse, that theperson who's been perpetrating
the violence may locate theanimal. So there's certainly

(22:19):
some safety considerationsaround all of that, but it's
definitely the case thatorganizations are trying to come
up with some solutionsthemselves about how they can
support women who have largeanimals that are harder to just
take with them in the car, forexample.

What about the role of police and how do they
respond where there's an animalin a family situation where
they've been called out to dealwith domestic violence? Are you
aware of anything that happensthere, or whether the police
have been participating in theconference or any education

(22:56):
around managing family animals?

Yeah so we know that the domestic violence
registry within the police havetaken this on at the moment and
in the 16 days of ActivismAgainst Gender-Based Violence.
What happened during that weekwas rotary and New South Wales
Police combined together fortheir 16 days campaign to be
about animals and peopleimpacted by domestic and family

(23:22):
violence. So I think that'sfantastic that that's been
recognized as an issue thatneeds to be talked about in that
context. So DV registry has beenlooking at how they can pull
together some more resourcingaround what are the
accommodation options, andthey've also now put together
there's a page on the New SouthWales Police website, and they

(23:45):
have some services listed there.I know we just talked a bit
earlier about there not being alot of services, so there's a
lot of potential for services tocome about, to be added to that
list. But I think obviouslythat's been talked about a lot
more the Animal Welfare Leagueand RSPCA are the subject matter
experts on animal abuse. Sosometimes, you know, police

(24:08):
recognize they're not thesubject matter experts on that.
But obviously, frontline police,general duties police, I mean,
are in a very good position toactually recognize and respond
to animal abuse because they aregoing into people's homes, and
they are, you know, they're in aposition to find out about abuse

(24:28):
that's happening. And then, ofcourse, the important thing is
that police then make referralsappropriately. If there are
services that they can referpeople to, but I think in terms
of whether you see chargesproceeding, I know what came
across at the conference isoften people are confused. We

(24:51):
had some academics talking aboutsome research that they're
currently doing. It's someacademics at Monash Uni and
Griffith University. And they'relooking at the issue of
rurality, domestic and familyviolence and animal cruelty. So
they're surveying practitioners.The survey still open, and what
practitioners in the domesticviolence sector are saying is

(25:14):
that they're not clear on thereporting channel. So if animal
abuse is happening in thecontext of family violence, do
we ring the police? Do we ringthe RSPCA? You know, there's
some confusion about that. Ofcourse, in the area that I live
in, we have one or two RSPCAinspectors covering a really
huge area that they can'treasonably be expected to cover

(25:35):
as effectively as we might wantthem to. So yeah, that's there's
definitely a gap in knowledgearound who to contact, but we
are hearing about someinnovative things that are
happening. For example, inQueensland, the Queensland
Police Service and RSPCAQueensland have joined together

(25:56):
for what they're calling aninformation sharing partnership.
This is to help in cases where,if serious animal cruelty is
happening, that police are awareof that when they're going into
homes, and also helping to, Iguess, do some risk assessment
and early intervention aroundwhether there's domestic and

(26:17):
family violence happening so toshare that information between
organizations with you know,what we've been told with the
sole purpose of enhancing thesafety of people experiencing
domestic and family violence.

You also spoke previously about vets and the
role that they can play. I justwonder if you could expand on
that a little bit?

I mean, vets are sort of, now, I guess, regarded
almost as family practitioners.You know that people regard
their animals as family members.They take them to the vet. They
often trust vets, and vets arevery much in a position to
identify non accidental injuryto animals, and we recognize
that they can provide a pathwayto safety and support. For

(26:58):
example, in Victoria, there's anorganization called Free: a
Domestic Violence Service, andthey've provided the three Rs
training the recognized respondand refer training to veterinary
professionals so that they canuse those skills in their
practices. They can haveconversations with people about
referring them to appropriateservices, we know that that is a

(27:20):
safe place to have brochures andposters about domestic violence
so people coming into that spacewith their animals can find out
about services. Lucy's Projecthelped to facilitate some
training for vets and otherveterinary professionals like
veterinary nurses back in 2018at our conference that was held
at Melbourne University. So fora long time, we've recognized

(27:43):
that the veterinary professionis a potential pathway to safety
for women, children and animals.You know, for example, one of
the vets there who has anorganization in Victoria called
Cherished Pets, who very muchrecognizes the importance of
supporting the human and familymembers, it's like a One Health,
one welfare type model, andrecognizing the

(28:05):
interconnectedness of animalsand people in a family unit. And
and what Alicia Kennedy, hername is, what she was talking
about, is how in the veterinaryclinic, you will often see
examples of coercive control, offinancial abuse. You might have
an opportunity to have aconversation with a client who
says something like, “oh, youknow, my partner really doesn't

(28:27):
like my dog.” And and then, youknow, ask the question, so “why
do you think your partnerdoesn't like your dog?” And
then, you know, have thoseconversations: “well, you know,
he always locks him in thelaundry, or he yells at him,”
or, you know, so can start tosort of have those conversations
in a safe and supportive way.And then, you know, for vets to,

(28:49):
you know, maybe havepartnerships or a memorandum of
understanding with localdomestic violence service to
have to have a protocol inplace, like, what, what do we do
if this happens? Who do we makethe referral to? There's also a
profession called VeterinarySocial Workers. And recently,
there was a New South WalesParliamentary Inquiry into the

(29:11):
Veterinary Workforce shortage inNew South Wales, and one of the
recommendations was that the NewSouth Wales Government consider
how it can promote and supportthe establishment of the field
of veterinary social work. Sorecognizing that people may be
coming in with a whole range ofother issues happening for them.
They may be on the brink ofhomelessness, they may be

(29:34):
experiencing mental healthissues, they may be experiencing
domestic and family violence. Soyou know what role can would
veterinary social workers thenbe able to play in supporting
people to get to get access tothe support and safety that they
need?

This podcast series is directed towards
community workers. Do you haveany other suggestions for
community workers working inthis space?

Yeah recognizing as I said before, that that if
they're talking about theiranimal, you know to then regard
that animal as a member of theirfamily, and to make sure that
you ask questions about thatmember of the family as you
would have their children. Butalso to look at, is there
training that staff could do inthe organization? What training

(30:20):
could staff access so that theyhave a better understanding of
that link between animal abuseand domestic and family
violence. You know, I'vementioned that we obviously have
some training at the moment aswell online that's free, that
people can access from thecommunity sector. Looking at
maybe what partnerships theycould have with other

(30:42):
organizations. So if you're anorganization that wants to be
more animal inclusive, solooking at your intake process,
also looking at your referrals,so what organizations getting a
better sense of whatorganizations are in your local
area that you can refer peopleand animals to, maybe developing
partnerships or memorandum ofunderstanding with your local

(31:05):
vet clinics, your local fostercare network. So, looking at
what are clients needing whenthey come in, are they wanting
care or safe keeping, as it'salso known for, their animals?
So looking at what exists inyour local area. Are there
foster care networks? Does thelocal councils pound offer any
support or access for animalvictim survivors is that an

(31:28):
option? Looking at what localvet clinics might have to
support, can you have anarrangement where maybe the
boarding might boarding costsmight be reduced, for example?
So I think they're sort of somekey practical things. Obviously,
I think, you know, for peoplewho want to do the broader
advocacy work, I think there's alot more we can do for

(31:50):
governments in terms of helpingthem to think about what we need
to fund. So when we're fundingdomestic and family violence
organizations, recognizing thatanimals are victim survivors as
well so what funding is requiredfor services to be able to do
that work well?

I also wanted to ask, what are the goals or the
plan for Lucy's project in thecoming year?

Obviously, our broader perspective is how we
can improve the relationshipbetween animal welfare sectors
and the human services sector,how we can all talk to each
other better so that we can moreeffectively support people and
animals experiencing domesticand family violence. We will be
advocating for further andadditional funding and resources

(32:34):
for domestic and family violenceservices so that they can be
animal inclusive. So obviously,you know, not just that core and
cluster or Crisis Accommodation,but looking at what services who
don't provide accommodation,ways they could become more
animal inclusive, and ways thatthey should be funded and
supported to do that. We againare obviously advocating for

(32:56):
more training and resourcing foranimal welfare workers and
veterinary professionals. We'vealso been calling for more
funding for research on the linkbetween animal abuse and
domestic and family violence,specifically with the aim of of
improving service responses, butalso informing prevention
strategies. And like Imentioned, the round table, so

(33:17):
bringing academics andpractitioners together to look
at how we can do the work moreeffectively on the ground. And
also, I'll be running acommunity of practice next year,
because we know that there are alot of people working now who
are champions in their ownorganization. You know, we meet
them every day. I meet themevery day in this work, people

(33:37):
who don't have specific fundingto support animals, but who are
trying to do their best becausethey know that that's important
for their clients. And solooking at how we can come
together to provide moreeffective services.

So in terms of the community of practice that
you're going to create, howwould people go about joining
that? Yeah,

Yes we do have a website, and so also people
could contact us, you know, onthe generic email, if you're
interested in in that. So ourwebsite is LucysProject.com, and
it's Lucy L, U, C, Y, S,www.Lucysproject.com is the
website and and the email is Hello@Lucysproject.com.

Do you take volunteers if people are
interested in volunteering forLucy's project?

Yes, we do, actually. So obviously, what you
know, we are a small team, soit's about what capacity we have
at the time, but we do havevolunteers working with us. We
had some fantastic volunteershelping to support our work for
our conference we've had, wehave volunteers who have law
backgrounds, who support some ofthe work we do. So yeah,

(34:51):
definitely, if people think thatthey have some knowledge or
skill or interest in being avolunteer, then then we're all.
Is happy to hear from them.

Yasmine (35:02):
That’s all for this episode. Don't forget to check
the show notes for moreinformation and links to
different resources mentioned inthis episode. You're listening
to Law for Community Workers.Catch you next time.

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'Til the violence ends - Episode 5: Domestic violence and pets - Lucy's Project

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}'Til the violence ends - Episode 5: Domestic violence and pets - Lucy's Project