November 7, 2023 • 29 mins
Join Catherine Henry and recently retired family lawyer, accredited family law specialist, and University of Newcastle law academic, Rachael Wallbank for this two-part special where we explore the pivotal legal cases that have significantly influenced the legal landscape in Australia for individuals identifying as transgender or intersex.
In part one of this interview, Catherine and Rachael explore Rachael's extensive legal career. In part two, they delve into the groundbreaking cases that have been integral to her professional journey.
In this episode you’ll find out:
- How Rachael Wallbank became the first lawyer in NSW to transition
- Why the laws that govern medical procedures around gender are so important for people who experience gender diversity
- How Rachael tackled landmark cases that changed the way the courts look at gender diversity in relation to both marriage and pre-adolescent medical interventions.
Disclaimer
While this podcast is aimed to be informative, it is not intended to be a substitute for legal advice. You should see a solicitor for complete advice that relates directly to your situation.
For more information please visit:
If anything in this episode brought something up for you, you can call Lifeline on 13 11 14.
If you have a legal issue and live in NSW you can find out more at Catherine Henry Lawyers, or call the team on 1800 874 949.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Catherine Henry (00:01):
Welcome to the Law Matters Podcast. I'm
Catherine Henry of CatherineHenry Lawyers and in this
episode, we're going to look atlaws affecting transgender,
transsexual and intersex people.I'm going to be joined by
someone who has done somegroundbreaking work in this
field, including having runseveral landmark cases.
(00:27):
Now family law is oftenassociated with things like
parenting issues, property,settlement and divorce. But it
also deals with the validity ofa marriage and the courts power
concerning children's access tocertain medical procedures. As
the world has changed, so havethe laws that govern us. You see
this in medical related legalissues, but also in attitudes to
(00:48):
human difference or diversity.And today's episode is talking
to both of these spaces. In thelast 30 years, our laws and
their application affectingpeople who experience difference
or diversity in their sexualformation and or gender
expression have been tested andrefined. And that's the focus
(01:09):
for today the shifting sands ofthese laws with someone who has
represented people and appearedin landmark cases in this field.
It gives me great pleasure towelcome a local practitioner,
recently retired family lawyer,Rachael Wallbank to the podcast.
Rachael, welcome.
Rachael Wallbank (01:29):
Thank you, Catherine.
Catherine Henry (01:30):
So let's talk about these landmark cases. And
one in particular, I guess, thatyou've been involved in, but
just to lay the groundwork, Iknow you have a personal
connection to this area of law.How did you find yourself
working in this space?
Rachael Wallbank (01:48):
Well, I graduated from law from the
University of New South Walesand went through the College of
Law and then started working atFred A and John F Newman a very
respected family law practice inSydney. And I was working there
before I went to the College ofLaw. So to an extent, I did a
bit of the old fashioned kind ofapprenticeship in law, which I
think was very helpful. I workedmy way up the totem pole at that
(02:12):
practice to become an associate.But ultimately, because I was
aware, I was also fromchildhood, I was aware I'd been
born and assigned to the malesex, but I experienced myself as
female from about the age offive or six, which is house and
garden for people who experiencewhat's called transsexualism.
(02:35):
Language is a minefield in thisarea. When I've been presenting
in Australia and overseas andwriting papers, I tend to want
to, bring things back todiversity and sexual formation
and gender expression, ratherthan using terms that had become
politicised. Like transsexual,trans, intersex, and then
(02:57):
there's the medical diagnosisunder the DSM five, which is
gender dysphoria. And youapproach the DSM five, at first
on your knees as thinking, Oh,wow, you know, this is an
international body of respectedpsychiatrists who have
determined these diagnosticcriteria, and they must be okay.
(03:17):
But then the more research youdo into them, and the more
articles you read about them,you realise that there as driven
by politics and preconceptions,and a misunderstanding of
biology and the people concernedas any other as anything else.
But they're the only thing thatthe medical practitioners who
are diagnosing children andadults with a difference in
(03:41):
sexual formation, for example,such as transsexualism are,
they're the only thing thatthose doctors can hang their
hats on in terms of diagnosticcriteria, and the provision of
medical treatment. So eventhough it might be, for example,
homosexuality in the DSM threewas a mental disorder, and
(04:01):
transsexualism was a separatediagnosis to cross dressing in
the DSM three in the DSM fourboth for brought together under
this one gender dysphoria thing,just to enable. I've seen it
argued, young children to betreated for homosexuality,
without it being called that inthe DSM five if they attempt to
(04:22):
go out of their way to say thatgender dysphoria is not a mental
health condition. It's adistress arising from a series
of circumstances wherebasically, a person identifies
and experiences themselves to bea sex different to that to which
they were assigned at birthbased upon and the assignment at
(04:43):
birth is based upon a fairlycasual examination of the
external genitalia. And that'sit.
Catherine Henry (04:49):
So huge challenges in terminology and
medical diagnostic issues.
Rachael Wallbank (04:55):
When I started experiencing differences a
child, no one, me included knewanything about this, about seven
or eight years of age could havebeen later. I think the family
knew something was going on. Butmy father found me dressed in my
sister's clothes, and asked mewhat was going on. And I had a
very loving relationship with myfather and I could trust him.
(05:17):
And I was very fortunate becausea lot of people like me never
did. And got brutalised as aresult of owning their stuff.
And being true to themselves. Ijust simply said to him, Dad,
I'm really a girl. So there wassome news. This was a world war
two guy, we're talking about1950s 60s, early 60s, and I was
(05:39):
shipped off, which was prettyadvanced stuff for those times I
was shipped off to a childpsychiatrist, who I always
remember, was somewhere nearLuna Park, because I remember
Luna Park, driving around thosestreets with my father. And he
did shadow diagrams on me and wewill get through the different
tests he had. But I knew thegame was up when I saw the
(06:02):
distress that my family and myparticularly my father and
mother went through because ofme simply saying, what was going
on for me. I knew what washappening. And so I played the
game. By the time I got to thepsychiatrist, I had a pretty
good idea of what answers wererequired to get me out from
under this problem I was then.And he was able to tell my
(06:25):
parents that there was noproblem at all, that I was
merely an intelligent,precocious child who was prone
to fantasies. Right? So wind theclock forward to school, a high
school, captain of the forwardsin the second 15 at St Pats,
Strathfield, I'm going to besuch I'm going to be the kind of
man I would like to know, right?You know, scouts, you name it,
(06:49):
sailing, and everything I couldpossibly do. And so, but I'm
gathering I'm living the life insecret. I've got a a female
existence. And it's in plasticbags, it's in garbage bags, and
things that last very well alongin garbage bags, and you work
Christmas holidays, and yousneakily buy some clothes at
(07:10):
Vinnies or somewhere else. Andthen they don't last very long
and plastic bags and, and youhad to hide them places under
railway bridges. I had acompletely secret life with some
cosmetics as well. And my motherwas sick with a number of
things. And every so often she'dgo into hospital. And to my
great shame they were periodswhen I had the house to myself
(07:33):
after school. And Rachael wasable to thrive. So I remember I
was 18. And I had my driver'slicence, I was on my plates. And
so I could have been still 17and I persuaded my father to
borrow his Holden station waggonto visit some relatives at Yass.
And so I was able to buy a wholeset of clothes and makeup and
(07:56):
stuff. And I drove to Yass, asRachel and I got off a golden
and stayed at the hotel thereand had a flirtatious night with
a gentleman who took me todinner. And I had to ad lib my
answers throughout the dinner.And then at the end of the
dinner because I knew thingscouldn't go too far. I had to
(08:18):
then slip away slip away. Yes.But you know, and it made all
these excuses. He wasn't veryhappy. But that's the way it
goes. So I took the P platesoff. So I could, you know, I,
so, no one had pulled me up andquestioned me about that. So and
then that changed back before Igot to the destination. Okay,
and I remember I called in alsoat the relatives on the south
(08:41):
coast on the way back. And myAuntie said to me, and these in
the days, this was a placecalled Toolijooa. And this is my
mother's family and to have abath, even in those days there,
they had to heat the water in acopper. And so a bath was a very
precious thing. And so I wasreally privileged to be there
(09:02):
and felt really welcomed by thefamily. And she said to me, on
her way out, she said, You know,I don't want to offend you, but
you walk like your mother did.And I thought well, you know,
that's right and I privatelythanked her for that. Anyway, so
down the years, an arts degree,a law degree, I am married. I
(09:23):
have three beautiful children. Itold my then wife before we
married that, that I really Iwas really female inside as
because there was no science ordiscussion about it then and we
both thought well, you know,it's so we just thought oh well
there must be other people likethat. And you know I was working
(09:44):
with it. Okay, starting todrink. And I used alcohol to
self medicate but I could holdit very well and generally even
at night reading I'd be drinkingand they'll be okay. It was only
towards the end of my drinkingby about 1991 that I started to
humiliate myself from time totime, but I generally kept
(10:05):
things pretty private. Butanyway, arts degree law degree
lovely house overlooking thewater at peakhurst Limekiln Bay,
following the Harvey Norman roadto happiness working in my own
practice at Paris Park nearParramatta, I was doing very
well.
Catherine Henry (10:19):
And what sort of practice was it?
Rachael Wallbank (10:20):
Well, I started off just doing anything.
Catherine Henry (10:23):
So you went in family law?
Rachael Wallbank (10:25):
No, I wasn't I, John was kind enough to let
me take a few clients with mewho wanted to go. And then my
cousin was an accountant andreferred some people to me, so I
did anything that came along.But But gradually, clients
specialise you. The funny thingis that many people who can
carve a course and say, I'mgoing to do this, I gonna do
(10:45):
that. The clients come back incertain areas, that was family
law, and, and wills and estates.To an extent, though I'd done a
corporate litigation and trustsand I had experienced in a wide
range of things. It's strange atNewnams, I was the rest person.
So I was the kind of person who,if there was a problem in an
(11:07):
equity case, that would throw itat me.
Catherine Henry (11:09):
What do you mean a rest person?
Rachael Wallbank (11:10):
Well, he had a group of lawyers who did family
law with him, and that was theFamily Law Team. And then there
was a conveyancing area, and Idid equity and commercial, and
all of these other things, anddifficult conveyances and things
old system conveyancing andstuff like that. So I wasn't
ready for family law at all,when I first went out my own
(11:33):
practice, but it came huntingfor me. Okay, so anyway, by this
time, I'm by about 1992. I'mabout 36. And I can no longer
keep my act together.
Catherine Henry (11:45):
And how old were you kids?
Rachael Wallbank (11:46):
Youngest was about seven, James. So spread
from seven to 12. And so I'dalso read that children were
better off going through parenttransitioning, I'd read some
Canadian research, if they wereyounger, rather than older. And
the teenage years were the worstfor them, because they were
questioning their own identityand, and kids are cruel, or can
(12:09):
be. But in the end, I didn'tchoose really the time I had a
breakdown. I had to do somethingabout it. And so I got sober. I
realised I couldn't keepdrinking the psychiatrists, I'd
been going to about thetranssexualism stuff. He,
basically said to me, youhaven't got a chance unless you
stop drinking, you know. Sothere's
Catherine Henry (12:30):
this wasn't the psychiatrists from way back when
you father first...
Rachael Wallbank (12:33):
No, no this was another one in Sydney, who
was an expert in in dealing withpeople who experienced
transsexualism. His name wasCorny Greenway. I liked him
because he had a dog who satwith him. But he was honest with
me, and he said, you know, youmeet all the criteria, but I'm
not going to approve you.Because you don't have a chance
unless you stop drinking. Ittook me a number of months. But
(12:56):
eventually, I went to anotherpsychiatrist, because I didn't
like that advice. And that otherpsychiatrist eventually said to
me, with all the problems you'redealing with, and everything
you're putting up with, it'sokay to have a bottle of wine at
night. That's fine. Right? Andhe thought, because I don't know
how early you think but peoplewith alcoholism, they don't tell
(13:16):
the truth about how much they'redrinking. That's one of the
fundamentals right. And youdon't want to go to a
psychiatrist and without themone, you want them to like you.
You don't want them to hate you.Or think bad of you
Catherine Henry (13:28):
Monitor what you tell them.
Rachael Wallbank (13:29):
Yes, yes, So one bottle of wine at night,
think one cask of one a night.And and that was what I needed
to get to sleep. And and Ididn't do anything flashy. I
sang sad songs. Like 'Why' byAnnie Lennox and that was one of
my favourites
Catherine Henry (13:48):
and all that working in your soul practice in
Parramatta,
Rachael Wallbank (13:52):
Parramatta that's right and having a
separation. I separated from myex because of this stuff, not
the alcoholism so much as thecross dressing. She couldn't
accept that ultimately, and andmy mother died. And so with all
of that, coming together, I gotsober in late 92. And it 18
(14:15):
months sober I realised I wasn'tgonna stay sober. Unless I was
honest with myself, andeverything else about me,
because I think there's anotherthing that's another phenomenon
that's a little understood hisalcoholism and addiction, and
one of the ways to you canrecover is to remove the need to
escape. One of the addictivethings about a drug like
(14:37):
alcohol, it works really, reallywell for a certain 10% of the
population. It's like rocketfuel, is that it it helps you
deal with the unacceptable. Iwas a much more social person
when I was drinking now I can'tput up with a lot of people. But
anyway, I knew one of the bigreasons why I was escaping was
was because I was selfdestructing from the inside out
(14:59):
not being able to be my femaleself
Catherine Henry (15:01):
and and how did what you're going through at
this time and battling withalcoholism and dealing with your
transsexualism? How did that allcome together in your legal
practice?
Rachael Wallbank (15:13):
I started doing voluntary work at a place
called the gender center. Uhhuh. I started speaking there. I
started writing some papers onceI, once I got sober and then I
transitioned. Let me tell youtransitioning doesn't do a lot
for your legal practice. But I,I was crawling along
financially. And with the sparetime I had, I was, you know, I
(15:34):
wasn't seeing my children verymuch. It was very, very
difficult. My father wanted mesee, he said, Why don't you go
to South Australia, but in thosedays, people saw it as a
terrible embarrassment. And Mumhad died. But dad was saying it
in the first I knew he stillloved me. But he saw it as
somehow something in hisbiology. That was wrong. You
(15:57):
know, they there's somefundamental human things, and
that his friends would say, oh,there's something wrong with
your biology. It's still a fearof difference that provades get
young people getting treatment.And so the reason why the Family
Court took until the there-Kelvin decision in in 2017,
(16:19):
to agree that children could getphase one and phase two
treatment for transsexualism andadolescence. Provided the
doctors approved it and providedthe family approved it and if
every one approved at the childwanted at the doctor's approved
it the family approved it thecourt didn't have to authorise
it.
Catherine Henry (16:38):
That concludes part one of my conversation with
Rachael Wallbank. If you'relistening to this, as it's
released, part two will be outtomorrow. And in that episode,
we continue this conversationinto the area of children's
specialist medical procedures.Big thanks to Rachael Wallbank,
Credited Specialist in FamilyLaw for taking the time to share
(17:00):
her groundbreaking work with uson this episode of law matters.
I'm Catherine Henry, principalat Catherine Henry Lawyers. And
if you'd like to find out moreabout how my team can help you
or your loved ones navigate someof the more non traditional
areas of family law. I'dencourage you to get in touch.
And if you're enjoying thispodcast, please make sure you
(17:22):
subscribe, and why not leave areview? This podcast was
produced by pod and pen productions.
Welcome to the Law Matters Podcast. I'm
Catherine Henry of CatherineHenry Lawyers and in this
episode, we're going to look atlaws affecting transgender,
transsexual and intersex people.I'm going to be joined by
someone who has done somegroundbreaking work in this
field, including having runseveral landmark cases.
(00:27):
Now family law is oftenassociated with things like
parenting issues, property,settlement and divorce. But it
also deals with the validity ofa marriage and the courts power
concerning children's access tocertain medical procedures. As
the world has changed, so havethe laws that govern us. You see
this in medical related legalissues, but also in attitudes to
(00:48):
human difference or diversity.And today's episode is talking
to both of these spaces. In thelast 30 years, our laws and
their application affectingpeople who experience difference
or diversity in their sexualformation and or gender
expression have been tested andrefined. And that's the focus
(01:09):
for today the shifting sands ofthese laws with someone who has
represented people and appearedin landmark cases in this field.
It gives me great pleasure towelcome a local practitioner,
recently retired family lawyer,Rachael Wallbank to the podcast.
Rachael, welcome.
Rachael Wallbank (01:29):
Thank you, Catherine.
Catherine Henry (01:30):
So let's talk about these landmark cases. And
one in particular, I guess, thatyou've been involved in, but
just to lay the groundwork, Iknow you have a personal
connection to this area of law.How did you find yourself
working in this space?
Rachael Wallbank (01:48):
Well, I graduated from law from the
University of New South Walesand went through the College of
Law and then started working atFred A and John F Newman a very
respected family law practice inSydney. And I was working there
before I went to the College ofLaw. So to an extent, I did a
bit of the old fashioned kind ofapprenticeship in law, which I
think was very helpful. I workedmy way up the totem pole at that
(02:12):
practice to become an associate.But ultimately, because I was
aware, I was also fromchildhood, I was aware I'd been
born and assigned to the malesex, but I experienced myself as
female from about the age offive or six, which is house and
garden for people who experiencewhat's called transsexualism.
(02:35):
Language is a minefield in thisarea. When I've been presenting
in Australia and overseas andwriting papers, I tend to want
to, bring things back todiversity and sexual formation
and gender expression, ratherthan using terms that had become
politicised. Like transsexual,trans, intersex, and then
(02:57):
there's the medical diagnosisunder the DSM five, which is
gender dysphoria. And youapproach the DSM five, at first
on your knees as thinking, Oh,wow, you know, this is an
international body of respectedpsychiatrists who have
determined these diagnosticcriteria, and they must be okay.
(03:17):
But then the more research youdo into them, and the more
articles you read about them,you realise that there as driven
by politics and preconceptions,and a misunderstanding of
biology and the people concernedas any other as anything else.
But they're the only thing thatthe medical practitioners who
are diagnosing children andadults with a difference in
(03:41):
sexual formation, for example,such as transsexualism are,
they're the only thing thatthose doctors can hang their
hats on in terms of diagnosticcriteria, and the provision of
medical treatment. So eventhough it might be, for example,
homosexuality in the DSM threewas a mental disorder, and
(04:01):
transsexualism was a separatediagnosis to cross dressing in
the DSM three in the DSM fourboth for brought together under
this one gender dysphoria thing,just to enable. I've seen it
argued, young children to betreated for homosexuality,
without it being called that inthe DSM five if they attempt to
(04:22):
go out of their way to say thatgender dysphoria is not a mental
health condition. It's adistress arising from a series
of circumstances wherebasically, a person identifies
and experiences themselves to bea sex different to that to which
they were assigned at birthbased upon and the assignment at
(04:43):
birth is based upon a fairlycasual examination of the
external genitalia. And that'sit.
Catherine Henry (04:49):
So huge challenges in terminology and
medical diagnostic issues.
Rachael Wallbank (04:55):
When I started experiencing differences a
child, no one, me included knewanything about this, about seven
or eight years of age could havebeen later. I think the family
knew something was going on. Butmy father found me dressed in my
sister's clothes, and asked mewhat was going on. And I had a
very loving relationship with myfather and I could trust him.
(05:17):
And I was very fortunate becausea lot of people like me never
did. And got brutalised as aresult of owning their stuff.
And being true to themselves. Ijust simply said to him, Dad,
I'm really a girl. So there wassome news. This was a world war
two guy, we're talking about1950s 60s, early 60s, and I was
(05:39):
shipped off, which was prettyadvanced stuff for those times I
was shipped off to a childpsychiatrist, who I always
remember, was somewhere nearLuna Park, because I remember
Luna Park, driving around thosestreets with my father. And he
did shadow diagrams on me and wewill get through the different
tests he had. But I knew thegame was up when I saw the
(06:02):
distress that my family and myparticularly my father and
mother went through because ofme simply saying, what was going
on for me. I knew what washappening. And so I played the
game. By the time I got to thepsychiatrist, I had a pretty
good idea of what answers wererequired to get me out from
under this problem I was then.And he was able to tell my
(06:25):
parents that there was noproblem at all, that I was
merely an intelligent,precocious child who was prone
to fantasies. Right? So wind theclock forward to school, a high
school, captain of the forwardsin the second 15 at St Pats,
Strathfield, I'm going to besuch I'm going to be the kind of
man I would like to know, right?You know, scouts, you name it,
(06:49):
sailing, and everything I couldpossibly do. And so, but I'm
gathering I'm living the life insecret. I've got a a female
existence. And it's in plasticbags, it's in garbage bags, and
things that last very well alongin garbage bags, and you work
Christmas holidays, and yousneakily buy some clothes at
(07:10):
Vinnies or somewhere else. Andthen they don't last very long
and plastic bags and, and youhad to hide them places under
railway bridges. I had acompletely secret life with some
cosmetics as well. And my motherwas sick with a number of
things. And every so often she'dgo into hospital. And to my
great shame they were periodswhen I had the house to myself
(07:33):
after school. And Rachael wasable to thrive. So I remember I
was 18. And I had my driver'slicence, I was on my plates. And
so I could have been still 17and I persuaded my father to
borrow his Holden station waggonto visit some relatives at Yass.
And so I was able to buy a wholeset of clothes and makeup and
(07:56):
stuff. And I drove to Yass, asRachel and I got off a golden
and stayed at the hotel thereand had a flirtatious night with
a gentleman who took me todinner. And I had to ad lib my
answers throughout the dinner.And then at the end of the
dinner because I knew thingscouldn't go too far. I had to
(08:18):
then slip away slip away. Yes.But you know, and it made all
these excuses. He wasn't veryhappy. But that's the way it
goes. So I took the P platesoff. So I could, you know, I,
so, no one had pulled me up andquestioned me about that. So and
then that changed back before Igot to the destination. Okay,
and I remember I called in alsoat the relatives on the south
(08:41):
coast on the way back. And myAuntie said to me, and these in
the days, this was a placecalled Toolijooa. And this is my
mother's family and to have abath, even in those days there,
they had to heat the water in acopper. And so a bath was a very
precious thing. And so I wasreally privileged to be there
(09:02):
and felt really welcomed by thefamily. And she said to me, on
her way out, she said, You know,I don't want to offend you, but
you walk like your mother did.And I thought well, you know,
that's right and I privatelythanked her for that. Anyway, so
down the years, an arts degree,a law degree, I am married. I
(09:23):
have three beautiful children. Itold my then wife before we
married that, that I really Iwas really female inside as
because there was no science ordiscussion about it then and we
both thought well, you know,it's so we just thought oh well
there must be other people likethat. And you know I was working
(09:44):
with it. Okay, starting todrink. And I used alcohol to
self medicate but I could holdit very well and generally even
at night reading I'd be drinkingand they'll be okay. It was only
towards the end of my drinkingby about 1991 that I started to
humiliate myself from time totime, but I generally kept
(10:05):
things pretty private. Butanyway, arts degree law degree
lovely house overlooking thewater at peakhurst Limekiln Bay,
following the Harvey Norman roadto happiness working in my own
practice at Paris Park nearParramatta, I was doing very
well.
Catherine Henry (10:19):
And what sort of practice was it?
Rachael Wallbank (10:20):
Well, I started off just doing anything.
Catherine Henry (10:23):
So you went in family law?
Rachael Wallbank (10:25):
No, I wasn't I, John was kind enough to let
me take a few clients with mewho wanted to go. And then my
cousin was an accountant andreferred some people to me, so I
did anything that came along.But But gradually, clients
specialise you. The funny thingis that many people who can
carve a course and say, I'mgoing to do this, I gonna do
(10:45):
that. The clients come back incertain areas, that was family
law, and, and wills and estates.To an extent, though I'd done a
corporate litigation and trustsand I had experienced in a wide
range of things. It's strange atNewnams, I was the rest person.
So I was the kind of person who,if there was a problem in an
(11:07):
equity case, that would throw itat me.
Catherine Henry (11:09):
What do you mean a rest person?
Rachael Wallbank (11:10):
Well, he had a group of lawyers who did family
law with him, and that was theFamily Law Team. And then there
was a conveyancing area, and Idid equity and commercial, and
all of these other things, anddifficult conveyances and things
old system conveyancing andstuff like that. So I wasn't
ready for family law at all,when I first went out my own
(11:33):
practice, but it came huntingfor me. Okay, so anyway, by this
time, I'm by about 1992. I'mabout 36. And I can no longer
keep my act together.
Catherine Henry (11:45):
And how old were you kids?
Rachael Wallbank (11:46):
Youngest was about seven, James. So spread
from seven to 12. And so I'dalso read that children were
better off going through parenttransitioning, I'd read some
Canadian research, if they wereyounger, rather than older. And
the teenage years were the worstfor them, because they were
questioning their own identityand, and kids are cruel, or can
(12:09):
be. But in the end, I didn'tchoose really the time I had a
breakdown. I had to do somethingabout it. And so I got sober. I
realised I couldn't keepdrinking the psychiatrists, I'd
been going to about thetranssexualism stuff. He,
basically said to me, youhaven't got a chance unless you
stop drinking, you know. Sothere's
Catherine Henry (12:30):
this wasn't the psychiatrists from way back when
you father first...
Rachael Wallbank (12:33):
No, no this was another one in Sydney, who
was an expert in in dealing withpeople who experienced
transsexualism. His name wasCorny Greenway. I liked him
because he had a dog who satwith him. But he was honest with
me, and he said, you know, youmeet all the criteria, but I'm
not going to approve you.Because you don't have a chance
unless you stop drinking. Ittook me a number of months. But
(12:56):
eventually, I went to anotherpsychiatrist, because I didn't
like that advice. And that otherpsychiatrist eventually said to
me, with all the problems you'redealing with, and everything
you're putting up with, it'sokay to have a bottle of wine at
night. That's fine. Right? Andhe thought, because I don't know
how early you think but peoplewith alcoholism, they don't tell
(13:16):
the truth about how much they'redrinking. That's one of the
fundamentals right. And youdon't want to go to a
psychiatrist and without themone, you want them to like you.
You don't want them to hate you.Or think bad of you
Catherine Henry (13:28):
Monitor what you tell them.
Rachael Wallbank (13:29):
Yes, yes, So one bottle of wine at night,
think one cask of one a night.And and that was what I needed
to get to sleep. And and Ididn't do anything flashy. I
sang sad songs. Like 'Why' byAnnie Lennox and that was one of
my favourites
Catherine Henry (13:48):
and all that working in your soul practice in
Parramatta,
Rachael Wallbank (13:52):
Parramatta that's right and having a
separation. I separated from myex because of this stuff, not
the alcoholism so much as thecross dressing. She couldn't
accept that ultimately, and andmy mother died. And so with all
of that, coming together, I gotsober in late 92. And it 18
(14:15):
months sober I realised I wasn'tgonna stay sober. Unless I was
honest with myself, andeverything else about me,
because I think there's anotherthing that's another phenomenon
that's a little understood hisalcoholism and addiction, and
one of the ways to you canrecover is to remove the need to
escape. One of the addictivethings about a drug like
(14:37):
alcohol, it works really, reallywell for a certain 10% of the
population. It's like rocketfuel, is that it it helps you
deal with the unacceptable. Iwas a much more social person
when I was drinking now I can'tput up with a lot of people. But
anyway, I knew one of the bigreasons why I was escaping was
was because I was selfdestructing from the inside out
(14:59):
not being able to be my femaleself
Catherine Henry (15:01):
and and how did what you're going through at
this time and battling withalcoholism and dealing with your
transsexualism? How did that allcome together in your legal
practice?
Rachael Wallbank (15:13):
I started doing voluntary work at a place
called the gender center. Uhhuh. I started speaking there. I
started writing some papers onceI, once I got sober and then I
transitioned. Let me tell youtransitioning doesn't do a lot
for your legal practice. But I,I was crawling along
financially. And with the sparetime I had, I was, you know, I
(15:34):
wasn't seeing my children verymuch. It was very, very
difficult. My father wanted mesee, he said, Why don't you go
to South Australia, but in thosedays, people saw it as a
terrible embarrassment. And Mumhad died. But dad was saying it
in the first I knew he stillloved me. But he saw it as
somehow something in hisbiology. That was wrong. You
(15:57):
know, they there's somefundamental human things, and
that his friends would say, oh,there's something wrong with
your biology. It's still a fearof difference that provades get
young people getting treatment.And so the reason why the Family
Court took until the there-Kelvin decision in in 2017,
(16:19):
to agree that children could getphase one and phase two
treatment for transsexualism andadolescence. Provided the
doctors approved it and providedthe family approved it and if
every one approved at the childwanted at the doctor's approved
it the family approved it thecourt didn't have to authorise
it.
Catherine Henry (16:38):
That concludes part one of my conversation with
Rachael Wallbank. If you'relistening to this, as it's
released, part two will be outtomorrow. And in that episode,
we continue this conversationinto the area of children's
specialist medical procedures.Big thanks to Rachael Wallbank,
Credited Specialist in FamilyLaw for taking the time to share
(17:00):
her groundbreaking work with uson this episode of law matters.
I'm Catherine Henry, principalat Catherine Henry Lawyers. And
if you'd like to find out moreabout how my team can help you
or your loved ones navigate someof the more non traditional
areas of family law. I'dencourage you to get in touch.
And if you're enjoying thispodcast, please make sure you
(17:22):
subscribe, and why not leave areview? This podcast was
produced by pod and pen productions.
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