March 26, 2025 • 18 mins
There's no doubt that the women's rights movement has made significant advancements in gender equality over the last 100 years, but there is still a long way to go.
In this episode of Law Matters, Catherine speaks with Sonia Hornery MP, State Member for Wallsend, about the critical issues affecting women both locally and across NSW.
They explore the ongoing struggles for gender equality, particularly in reproductive health, homelessness, and women's leadership.
In this episode, Catherine and Sonia discuss:
- The need for continued advocacy for women's rights and equality.
- The disproportionate impact of homelessness on women, often due to escaping violent relationships.
- The ongoing challenges of accessing abortion services, especially in regional NSW.
Listen now to hear about the powerful roles that women, like Sonia, are playing in advocating for change in politics, and the ongoing fight for gender equality in Australia.
Disclaimer
While this podcast is aimed to be informative, it is not intended to be a substitute for legal advice. You should see a solicitor for complete advice that relates directly to your situation.
For more information, please visit:
Our free resources on reproductive law.
If you’re looking for legal help in the areas of reproductive and fertility law, you can find out more at Catherine Henry Lawyers, or call the team on 1800 874 949.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
In March each year we celebrate International Women's Day and in this episode we'retalking about all things women.
In modern day Australia it may seem easy to presume that women have already achievedequality.
But you don't have to scratch too far under the surface to see that there is still a longway to go.
Less pay, less opportunities, especially for mothers, less choice over their bodies andmore likely to be victims of domestic violence.
(00:29):
All of these factors contribute to a poorer trajectory for women compared to their malecounterparts.
This year's International Women's Day theme is for all women and girls, rights, equality,empowerment.
I'm Catherine Henry from Catherine Henry Lawyers.
And on this episode of Law Matters, I want to discuss these ideas with a female leaderhere in the Hunter who has always been outspoken about women's rights.
(00:54):
Sonia Hornery is the state member for Wallsend.
Welcome, Sonia.
Thank you, Catherine, and thank you for your interest and your involvement with women'sissues and supporting women because it's so vital that a person in a leadership position
and with your legal background supports women too.
thank you.
That's very kind.
Equality, let's start with the big topic.
(01:18):
It's hard to know where to start talking about it and it's hard to know where to starttackling it.
Sonia, where do you see the biggest need in your electorate?
What you'd said earlier, Catherine, about the female trajectory in leadership and insociety being more limited for women is very true, even if it's subtle.
In the electorate, guess it faces the women face similar situations to other men in termsof expectations, in terms of the way they're treated.
(01:47):
As a politician, the subtle way I'm treated as a woman, I noticed this week with the
So much going on.
Yeah, and a thousand or so people on Facebook saying negative things about me because Isuggested to people that I was having a COVID shot.
Not telling them to do that, but just reminding people that if you need to get a booster,that here I was.
(02:14):
Many of the comments were absolutely.
And whilst there is no doubt that a man might have been subject to
Vitriol, it wouldn't have been a thousand comments, it would have been 200.
So the level of vitriol is always heightened for women, whether they're a politician orwhether they're a woman on Facebook or a woman that just uses Facebook socially, we are
(02:42):
subject to more vitriol than men are, there's no doubt.
Yeah.
So it was extremely unfortunate and shocked many people.
I'm pleased that our civic leader called it out and said, this is not acceptable.
And just the differences between men and women and our role and our position areexemplified by what we've seen happen this week.
(03:03):
So I'm really sorry that you've had that experience, but you've got good on your side.
So let's just leave them for what they are.
Homelessness, we
have been reading about it a lot in The Hunter and generally it's a problem for a lot ofpeople at the moment with the cost of living stretching so many.
We know that there's a larger number of women over 55 becoming homeless in recent yearsand it's always been a byproduct of leaving violent relationships.
(03:32):
I was interested to read about a campaign being run by YWCA putting the spotlight on theneed for urgent gender responsive solutions in housing.
I wonder what you think about campaigns and programs that specifically focus on increasedsupport and funding for gender responsive homelessness.
And I guess that also goes through to domestic and family violence services.
(03:55):
I support them because on Tuesday morning I was at Survivors Are Us, who was a greatorganisation in Cardiff and they had a breakfast meeting and they were talking about all
the different issues.
In fact, men are not excluded from using the services of Survivors Are Us, but of course90 % of the people that enter there and seek assistance are women, which goes to show that
(04:23):
about 90 % of women are victims as opposed to 10 % of men.
important to keep hold of that too and to keep making that message because it needs to besaid.
And it is often not said even by It is even denied that women are the major victims evenby women.
It always shocks me that that happens.
That's right.
(04:44):
When the Premier asked me what my priorities were, I think he asked many of the LabourMPs, I said, two things.
The first thing was flooding the walls in because we're on the wetlands and we need a lotof money for that.
But the other issue is the fact that ever since I walked in the door of my office in 2007,the majority of the phone calls and issues are about homelessness and people seeking rent
(05:08):
and rental assistance and the wait list for
Public housing has increased, so it's about a 10-year wait list.
So even though we are building some quality public housing, we're not building enough.
But what you'd said about women over 55 left homeless, there is definitely a need becausewomen my age often didn't have super and if they've left a bad marriage and left with
(05:34):
nothing.
And it's really hard to get a job if you're over 55 as a woman unless you have veryspecial skills.
because employers want younger people and younger women.
so women are left in this position.
And I guess as an MP, that's our number one job.
It's about trying to help people, but the services for them are limited.
(05:55):
So it's the number one job in your electorate office on a daily basis.
That sort of doesn't surprise me, to be honest.
There's been a particularly successful trial here of a project in the Hunter.
think it ran for three months last year where women had a safe place to sleep in theircar, where there was security and hence the safe place.
(06:18):
Would you like to see these sorts of innovative ideas rolled out further?
Certainly, I mean, there's a stopgap.
Then we need to find housing for those women.
But I totally support those services in the interim when a woman has to flee and she's gota dog or a children or a cat and she needs a place where she can have a shower, use the
laundry and be safe as well.
(06:40):
It's not comfortable and it's certainly not a permanent solution, but we need more ofthat.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's very interesting.
And it was good to see that.
But in a couple of international women's day events that I've been to in the last week,homelessness has focused, has been the focus.
So, and certainly that project was very well supported amongst those there.
I wonder if we can now move to abortion.
(07:03):
You and I've had some conversations over the years, especially access to abortion.
You've been outspoken in The Hunter on abortion access.
I'm aware of a recent study done by the University of Sydney that found that there werelarge parts of regional New South Wales without proper access to reproductive health
services.
And shockingly, the term that they used was abortion deserts.
(07:25):
And then earlier this year, the decision was made at Orange Base Hospital to no longeroffer abortion services.
As far as things are in the Hunter at the moment, where do think we are?
How do think we're going?
We saw the closure of the Marie Stoeps clinic probably four or five years ago forcommercial reasons.
Do you feel that there are enough options for women in the Hunter region and acrossregional New South Wales?
(07:51):
There aren't enough options and particularly for women in regional New South Wales wherethe tyranny of distance makes it even more awkward for them and conservative doctors.
There's enthusiasm for more public hospitals all over the state to offer their servicesbut the limitations are one, need to have, I understand certain services anyway and
(08:17):
certain doctors qualified but
whether those doctors are willing to do that or not is the- Indeed.
And that also applies to health professionals supporting the doctors, that it's alwaysbeen the way.
But what about in Newcastle?
Do you feel that local services are there?
I mean, it always seems to me to be the case that women have had to travel to Sydney.
(08:39):
And that makes what is an expensive procedure even more expensive.
Indeed.
And with the closure of Mary Stokes, really hasn't been replaced, I don't believe.
And I understand third hand that women are still having to travel, forced to travel toSydney, and that's just not good enough.
And statewide, we really do need to look at legislation in terms of public hospitals andwhat they should be offering in every public hospital in New South Wales for women in
(09:07):
terms of reproductive rights and reproductive issues.
And that leads to a bill that is currently before parliament focusing on early stagepregnancy.
So up to nine weeks, as I understand it, where I think it's being pushed by the Greens MPwho has responsibility for health that would allow nurses and midwives to prescribe the
(09:29):
drug that's used in medical, as in not surgical abortions, Mifepristone or RU486.
What are your thoughts on that bill?
Well, I know we haven't discussed this in caucus yet, but I'd certainly be veryinterested.
I'd love to read it and I'd certainly be on the face of it, a person in support of that.
Would you be allowed to vote, take a conscience vote or maybe not?
(09:52):
That'll be up to the Premier, but usually on these situations they are a conscience vote.
I think the sooner we find out about this, the better.
I presume this will come to the upper house, but I'm not sure.
So we'll see what the process of this occurs.
The upper house in New South Wales has been problematic in getting legislation thataffects reproductive issues through.
(10:14):
In my law firm, we get the opportunity as health lawyers to advocate for women on issuesthat are as important as access to abortion.
I always am reminded like Gloria Steinem, the feminist trailblazer, has said many timesthat no issue is more important for women than abortion because if we don't, as women,
have control of our own bodies, then we don't have a democracy.
(10:36):
Do think she's right or is that a rhetorical question?
Yeah, rhetorical question, but she's absolutely spot on.
And when we look at what's happening in America, it's just so worrying for women and theirwomen's rights.
It's almost like we've gone back 50 years in America.
And what worries me is what you mentioned, Catherine, about the upper house is we havesuch extremist views in the upper house that it's scary to think that there might be some
(11:05):
man or
severely religious person that might bring some sort of Americanised philosophy to proposethis legislation.
It doesn't mean that necessarily we'll get through, but it also takes up a lot of thatoxygen when we're dealing with trying to negate these crazy issues that we're not focusing
(11:26):
on what we should be doing for women.
Exactly.
So, you know, there's certainly a trickle down effect and I know those who oppose accessto abortion very much look to what's happening in America and are influenced and we see
the same things.
Abortion hasn't, unlike the US, traditionally been an election issue at either state orfederal level, but I think there have been suggestions of changing that this time around.
(11:51):
I read some press that both major parties have tried to shut that down, but again, the
The Greens are trying to agitate.
What's your view about abortion as an election issue given that we're coming up to afederal election?
Obviously it's a woman's issue and it's something that we should be discussing.
I'm not sure why the parties are trying to shut it down.
(12:12):
I think possibly because it's so contentious and when you come to elections, major partiesavoid the contentious because they don't want to be arguing, I guess, or debating those
issues with the community.
look, it's got to be dealt with and so if it comes up, then I hope both parties take itmore seriously.
(12:35):
and deal with it soon.
Well, I feel, look, you know, we just need to keep reminding people that 80 % of peoplesupport it.
you know, the idea that it's contentious should be hosed down because it has very broadsupport.
I'm Catherine Henry and you're listening to the Law Matters podcast.
My guest is State Member for Wallsend, Sonia Hornery.
(13:01):
Sonya, you've been vocal about women's rights in various areas, but you're a woman leaderyourself.
I'm reminded that you've been in, you've been holding your role as state member since2007.
So you're heading up for 20 years and before that you were a councillor on NewcastleCouncil.
How do you find your experience as a woman in a powerful job?
(13:24):
I think it's tough.
mean, it's tough for everyone and being in politics is a very time consuming job.
And I think that social media has made life more difficult for all of us, whether it's inlegal practice or anywhere else, but it's particularly difficult for women.
For me, the bottom line, woman or not, is that you have to be courageous enough as apolitician to put your electorate first.
(13:53):
And sometimes that means standing up to your own party and that I think is harder forwomen in general.
You've been very good on that.
mean, you have of our elected representatives, you're out off the charts in terms of theprimary vote that you get at election time.
So you are very much seen in The Hunter as first and foremost for your community.
(14:15):
Thank you.
I think in some ways that's been a bit of protection for me because I have a goodcommunity and I've tried to support them and they support me.
Then political parties look at a seat and think, well, I might need to listen to her or hebecause I want them to remain in my party and bottom line parties are about numbers.
(14:39):
There are different issues between what's considered a safe seat and a marginal seat.
Sometimes I find it very difficult to get money for projects and I think sometimes more sobecause I'm considered a safe seat.
But on the other hand, because I've been around for a while and I think you get moreconfidence in this position over a while and you learn to, I guess, use tactics a bit
(15:01):
better, which also is harder for women, I believe, because it's not our nature to be likethat.
You just have to stand up.
If there was a message in any of these podcasts is that
the importance of being strong and getting support of other women is really importantbecause we all have a voice and our voices need to be heard.
(15:22):
In the context of leadership, it's often said that a woman leader has to demonstrate greatstrength and sometimes adopt an aggressive positioning in political discourse and
conversation.
Do you think that that's necessary?
And is there a place for women adopting a more nurturing and, you know, do you agree thatwomen have to be feisty and aggressive?
(15:48):
What's your view on that?
Nurturing is important and compassionate is important and they're the skills that we bringwith us.
I don't believe we need to be loud or aggressive.
In fact, I think that we can use our listening skills and our persuasive skills to thebest light.
Definitely you need courage.
Regardless of all of that, you need a lot of courage to be able to stand up.
(16:10):
But you need to be able to be given the confidence to have the courage.
But as Jacinda Ardern said,
You you don't have to be masculine to be a strong woman.
You need to be courageous, a good listener, compassionate, and also not afraid to speakyour mind.
There are many issues that we can wrap up together that are important for women to take aprominent role in domestic violence, sexual violence, homelessness, as we've discussed.
(16:41):
It feels like there's so much to do.
Do feel that there is a role for men in ensuring that the change that we need is deliveredmore quickly?
Definitely there's always a role for men.
The leader of the government in state and opposition are both men and so they need to belistening too.
(17:06):
And they need to have the conscience and the belief that women's rights are about women'schoice too.
And so I think they need to be mindful that it's about us and to be talking to women andlistening to women about what their needs are, know, and not making decisions for women.
Absolutely.
Sonia, thank you so much for all that you do, for your community, the leadership that youshow, and your strengths.
(17:35):
And I really want to thank you for your time today.
It's been great to talk to you.
And thank you Catherine and thank you for what you do for women because ultimately whenwomen get in strife they're always seeking good legal advice and I know that you give it
and particularly when you focus on women this way, that's really important because itgives women the confidence to be able to talk to you and that's really important.
(17:57):
Pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Pleasure.
Thank you for listening to the Law Matters podcast.
I'm Catherine Henry.
And if you need help with any issue that relates to medical and health law, including anyareas of fertility and reproductive health, please reach out to us.
(18:21):
Our mission is to advocate for better.
And make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
Thank you to Pod and Pen Productions for their help in producing this podcast.
In March each year we celebrate International Women's Day and in this episode we'retalking about all things women.
In modern day Australia it may seem easy to presume that women have already achievedequality.
But you don't have to scratch too far under the surface to see that there is still a longway to go.
Less pay, less opportunities, especially for mothers, less choice over their bodies andmore likely to be victims of domestic violence.
(00:29):
All of these factors contribute to a poorer trajectory for women compared to their malecounterparts.
This year's International Women's Day theme is for all women and girls, rights, equality,empowerment.
I'm Catherine Henry from Catherine Henry Lawyers.
And on this episode of Law Matters, I want to discuss these ideas with a female leaderhere in the Hunter who has always been outspoken about women's rights.
(00:54):
Sonia Hornery is the state member for Wallsend.
Welcome, Sonia.
Thank you, Catherine, and thank you for your interest and your involvement with women'sissues and supporting women because it's so vital that a person in a leadership position
and with your legal background supports women too.
thank you.
That's very kind.
Equality, let's start with the big topic.
(01:18):
It's hard to know where to start talking about it and it's hard to know where to starttackling it.
Sonia, where do you see the biggest need in your electorate?
What you'd said earlier, Catherine, about the female trajectory in leadership and insociety being more limited for women is very true, even if it's subtle.
In the electorate, guess it faces the women face similar situations to other men in termsof expectations, in terms of the way they're treated.
(01:47):
As a politician, the subtle way I'm treated as a woman, I noticed this week with the
So much going on.
Yeah, and a thousand or so people on Facebook saying negative things about me because Isuggested to people that I was having a COVID shot.
Not telling them to do that, but just reminding people that if you need to get a booster,that here I was.
(02:14):
Many of the comments were absolutely.
And whilst there is no doubt that a man might have been subject to
Vitriol, it wouldn't have been a thousand comments, it would have been 200.
So the level of vitriol is always heightened for women, whether they're a politician orwhether they're a woman on Facebook or a woman that just uses Facebook socially, we are
(02:42):
subject to more vitriol than men are, there's no doubt.
Yeah.
So it was extremely unfortunate and shocked many people.
I'm pleased that our civic leader called it out and said, this is not acceptable.
And just the differences between men and women and our role and our position areexemplified by what we've seen happen this week.
(03:03):
So I'm really sorry that you've had that experience, but you've got good on your side.
So let's just leave them for what they are.
Homelessness, we
have been reading about it a lot in The Hunter and generally it's a problem for a lot ofpeople at the moment with the cost of living stretching so many.
We know that there's a larger number of women over 55 becoming homeless in recent yearsand it's always been a byproduct of leaving violent relationships.
(03:32):
I was interested to read about a campaign being run by YWCA putting the spotlight on theneed for urgent gender responsive solutions in housing.
I wonder what you think about campaigns and programs that specifically focus on increasedsupport and funding for gender responsive homelessness.
And I guess that also goes through to domestic and family violence services.
(03:55):
I support them because on Tuesday morning I was at Survivors Are Us, who was a greatorganisation in Cardiff and they had a breakfast meeting and they were talking about all
the different issues.
In fact, men are not excluded from using the services of Survivors Are Us, but of course90 % of the people that enter there and seek assistance are women, which goes to show that
(04:23):
about 90 % of women are victims as opposed to 10 % of men.
important to keep hold of that too and to keep making that message because it needs to besaid.
And it is often not said even by It is even denied that women are the major victims evenby women.
It always shocks me that that happens.
That's right.
(04:44):
When the Premier asked me what my priorities were, I think he asked many of the LabourMPs, I said, two things.
The first thing was flooding the walls in because we're on the wetlands and we need a lotof money for that.
But the other issue is the fact that ever since I walked in the door of my office in 2007,the majority of the phone calls and issues are about homelessness and people seeking rent
(05:08):
and rental assistance and the wait list for
Public housing has increased, so it's about a 10-year wait list.
So even though we are building some quality public housing, we're not building enough.
But what you'd said about women over 55 left homeless, there is definitely a need becausewomen my age often didn't have super and if they've left a bad marriage and left with
(05:34):
nothing.
And it's really hard to get a job if you're over 55 as a woman unless you have veryspecial skills.
because employers want younger people and younger women.
so women are left in this position.
And I guess as an MP, that's our number one job.
It's about trying to help people, but the services for them are limited.
(05:55):
So it's the number one job in your electorate office on a daily basis.
That sort of doesn't surprise me, to be honest.
There's been a particularly successful trial here of a project in the Hunter.
think it ran for three months last year where women had a safe place to sleep in theircar, where there was security and hence the safe place.
(06:18):
Would you like to see these sorts of innovative ideas rolled out further?
Certainly, I mean, there's a stopgap.
Then we need to find housing for those women.
But I totally support those services in the interim when a woman has to flee and she's gota dog or a children or a cat and she needs a place where she can have a shower, use the
laundry and be safe as well.
(06:40):
It's not comfortable and it's certainly not a permanent solution, but we need more ofthat.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's very interesting.
And it was good to see that.
But in a couple of international women's day events that I've been to in the last week,homelessness has focused, has been the focus.
So, and certainly that project was very well supported amongst those there.
I wonder if we can now move to abortion.
(07:03):
You and I've had some conversations over the years, especially access to abortion.
You've been outspoken in The Hunter on abortion access.
I'm aware of a recent study done by the University of Sydney that found that there werelarge parts of regional New South Wales without proper access to reproductive health
services.
And shockingly, the term that they used was abortion deserts.
(07:25):
And then earlier this year, the decision was made at Orange Base Hospital to no longeroffer abortion services.
As far as things are in the Hunter at the moment, where do think we are?
How do think we're going?
We saw the closure of the Marie Stoeps clinic probably four or five years ago forcommercial reasons.
Do you feel that there are enough options for women in the Hunter region and acrossregional New South Wales?
(07:51):
There aren't enough options and particularly for women in regional New South Wales wherethe tyranny of distance makes it even more awkward for them and conservative doctors.
There's enthusiasm for more public hospitals all over the state to offer their servicesbut the limitations are one, need to have, I understand certain services anyway and
(08:17):
certain doctors qualified but
whether those doctors are willing to do that or not is the- Indeed.
And that also applies to health professionals supporting the doctors, that it's alwaysbeen the way.
But what about in Newcastle?
Do you feel that local services are there?
I mean, it always seems to me to be the case that women have had to travel to Sydney.
(08:39):
And that makes what is an expensive procedure even more expensive.
Indeed.
And with the closure of Mary Stokes, really hasn't been replaced, I don't believe.
And I understand third hand that women are still having to travel, forced to travel toSydney, and that's just not good enough.
And statewide, we really do need to look at legislation in terms of public hospitals andwhat they should be offering in every public hospital in New South Wales for women in
(09:07):
terms of reproductive rights and reproductive issues.
And that leads to a bill that is currently before parliament focusing on early stagepregnancy.
So up to nine weeks, as I understand it, where I think it's being pushed by the Greens MPwho has responsibility for health that would allow nurses and midwives to prescribe the
(09:29):
drug that's used in medical, as in not surgical abortions, Mifepristone or RU486.
What are your thoughts on that bill?
Well, I know we haven't discussed this in caucus yet, but I'd certainly be veryinterested.
I'd love to read it and I'd certainly be on the face of it, a person in support of that.
Would you be allowed to vote, take a conscience vote or maybe not?
(09:52):
That'll be up to the Premier, but usually on these situations they are a conscience vote.
I think the sooner we find out about this, the better.
I presume this will come to the upper house, but I'm not sure.
So we'll see what the process of this occurs.
The upper house in New South Wales has been problematic in getting legislation thataffects reproductive issues through.
(10:14):
In my law firm, we get the opportunity as health lawyers to advocate for women on issuesthat are as important as access to abortion.
I always am reminded like Gloria Steinem, the feminist trailblazer, has said many timesthat no issue is more important for women than abortion because if we don't, as women,
have control of our own bodies, then we don't have a democracy.
(10:36):
Do think she's right or is that a rhetorical question?
Yeah, rhetorical question, but she's absolutely spot on.
And when we look at what's happening in America, it's just so worrying for women and theirwomen's rights.
It's almost like we've gone back 50 years in America.
And what worries me is what you mentioned, Catherine, about the upper house is we havesuch extremist views in the upper house that it's scary to think that there might be some
(11:05):
man or
severely religious person that might bring some sort of Americanised philosophy to proposethis legislation.
It doesn't mean that necessarily we'll get through, but it also takes up a lot of thatoxygen when we're dealing with trying to negate these crazy issues that we're not focusing
(11:26):
on what we should be doing for women.
Exactly.
So, you know, there's certainly a trickle down effect and I know those who oppose accessto abortion very much look to what's happening in America and are influenced and we see
the same things.
Abortion hasn't, unlike the US, traditionally been an election issue at either state orfederal level, but I think there have been suggestions of changing that this time around.
(11:51):
I read some press that both major parties have tried to shut that down, but again, the
The Greens are trying to agitate.
What's your view about abortion as an election issue given that we're coming up to afederal election?
Obviously it's a woman's issue and it's something that we should be discussing.
I'm not sure why the parties are trying to shut it down.
(12:12):
I think possibly because it's so contentious and when you come to elections, major partiesavoid the contentious because they don't want to be arguing, I guess, or debating those
issues with the community.
look, it's got to be dealt with and so if it comes up, then I hope both parties take itmore seriously.
(12:35):
and deal with it soon.
Well, I feel, look, you know, we just need to keep reminding people that 80 % of peoplesupport it.
you know, the idea that it's contentious should be hosed down because it has very broadsupport.
I'm Catherine Henry and you're listening to the Law Matters podcast.
My guest is State Member for Wallsend, Sonia Hornery.
(13:01):
Sonya, you've been vocal about women's rights in various areas, but you're a woman leaderyourself.
I'm reminded that you've been in, you've been holding your role as state member since2007.
So you're heading up for 20 years and before that you were a councillor on NewcastleCouncil.
How do you find your experience as a woman in a powerful job?
(13:24):
I think it's tough.
mean, it's tough for everyone and being in politics is a very time consuming job.
And I think that social media has made life more difficult for all of us, whether it's inlegal practice or anywhere else, but it's particularly difficult for women.
For me, the bottom line, woman or not, is that you have to be courageous enough as apolitician to put your electorate first.
(13:53):
And sometimes that means standing up to your own party and that I think is harder forwomen in general.
You've been very good on that.
mean, you have of our elected representatives, you're out off the charts in terms of theprimary vote that you get at election time.
So you are very much seen in The Hunter as first and foremost for your community.
(14:15):
Thank you.
I think in some ways that's been a bit of protection for me because I have a goodcommunity and I've tried to support them and they support me.
Then political parties look at a seat and think, well, I might need to listen to her or hebecause I want them to remain in my party and bottom line parties are about numbers.
(14:39):
There are different issues between what's considered a safe seat and a marginal seat.
Sometimes I find it very difficult to get money for projects and I think sometimes more sobecause I'm considered a safe seat.
But on the other hand, because I've been around for a while and I think you get moreconfidence in this position over a while and you learn to, I guess, use tactics a bit
(15:01):
better, which also is harder for women, I believe, because it's not our nature to be likethat.
You just have to stand up.
If there was a message in any of these podcasts is that
the importance of being strong and getting support of other women is really importantbecause we all have a voice and our voices need to be heard.
(15:22):
In the context of leadership, it's often said that a woman leader has to demonstrate greatstrength and sometimes adopt an aggressive positioning in political discourse and
conversation.
Do you think that that's necessary?
And is there a place for women adopting a more nurturing and, you know, do you agree thatwomen have to be feisty and aggressive?
(15:48):
What's your view on that?
Nurturing is important and compassionate is important and they're the skills that we bringwith us.
I don't believe we need to be loud or aggressive.
In fact, I think that we can use our listening skills and our persuasive skills to thebest light.
Definitely you need courage.
Regardless of all of that, you need a lot of courage to be able to stand up.
(16:10):
But you need to be able to be given the confidence to have the courage.
But as Jacinda Ardern said,
You you don't have to be masculine to be a strong woman.
You need to be courageous, a good listener, compassionate, and also not afraid to speakyour mind.
There are many issues that we can wrap up together that are important for women to take aprominent role in domestic violence, sexual violence, homelessness, as we've discussed.
(16:41):
It feels like there's so much to do.
Do feel that there is a role for men in ensuring that the change that we need is deliveredmore quickly?
Definitely there's always a role for men.
The leader of the government in state and opposition are both men and so they need to belistening too.
(17:06):
And they need to have the conscience and the belief that women's rights are about women'schoice too.
And so I think they need to be mindful that it's about us and to be talking to women andlistening to women about what their needs are, know, and not making decisions for women.
Absolutely.
Sonia, thank you so much for all that you do, for your community, the leadership that youshow, and your strengths.
(17:35):
And I really want to thank you for your time today.
It's been great to talk to you.
And thank you Catherine and thank you for what you do for women because ultimately whenwomen get in strife they're always seeking good legal advice and I know that you give it
and particularly when you focus on women this way, that's really important because itgives women the confidence to be able to talk to you and that's really important.
(17:57):
Pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Pleasure.
Thank you for listening to the Law Matters podcast.
I'm Catherine Henry.
And if you need help with any issue that relates to medical and health law, including anyareas of fertility and reproductive health, please reach out to us.
(18:21):
Our mission is to advocate for better.
And make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
Thank you to Pod and Pen Productions for their help in producing this podcast.
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