Fostering Creative Community through Faith-Driven Fiction: Michael House's Story - Latter-Day Lights - LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Episode Transcript
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Scott Brandley (00:00):
Hey there as a Latter-day Lights listener, I
want to give you a very specialgift today my brand new book,
faith to Stay.
This book is filled withinspiring stories, powerful
discoveries and even freshinsights to help strengthen your
faith during the storms of life.
So if you're looking to beinspired, uplifted and

(00:21):
spiritually recharged, justvisit faithtostaycom.
Now let's get back to the show.
Hey everyone, I'm ScottBrandley.

Alisha Coakley (00:32):
And I'm Alisha Coakley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth andinspire others.

On today's episode we're going to hear how
one author is merging thefiction and nonfiction parts of
his world in a way that spreadsthe light of the gospel to all.
Welcome to Latter-day Lights.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Latter-day

(01:03):
Lights.
We're so glad you're here withus today.
We're really excited to bringback one of our special guests,
mike House, to the show.
Mike, welcome back, man.

Michael House (01:13):
Thanks for having me back.
You're very brave.

We love collaborating with you and I
feel like you already did partof our podcast already, just in
our pre-show podcast.
So, no, we love it that.
We love having you on and justpicking your brain and hearing
your insights and perspectives.
It's always fun Well thank you.
Thanks for being open.

Yeah well, we got a lot of fun things to talk
about today, but before we getstarted, just give those who
haven't had a chance to listento your previous episode a
little bit about yourself.

I was about three years into a semi-retirement
from a professional career incorporate finance and I was
trying to live out my dream ofbeing an author as well.
And I was writing fiction,historical fiction on both the
Bible and the Book of Mormon,and some fantasy and some
science fiction, having a goodtime, and since then things have

(02:29):
changed quite a bit I decidedI'd do a little bit of
nonfiction.
Having a good time and sincethen things have changed quite a
bit I decided I'd do a littlebit of non-fiction and I decided
I'd get more involved in LDSPMA, which you and I have talked
about quite a bit at length aswell, and that's Latter-day
Saints in Publishing, media andthe Arts, which is a 501c3.
So it's nonprofit and I'mcompletely new to the nonprofit
space and somehow over thatintervening time I started

(02:49):
volunteering for them and doingsome things.
And then just the way thepuzzle pieces shifted around, or
the chess pieces on the board Idon't know if you maybe they're
puzzled chess pieces theyshifted around and somehow I
became president of LDS PMA.
And boy that's been challenging, but it's also been really

(03:10):
interesting.
And some of the people I get toI'll mention a couple, some of
the people I get to talk to andthat I get to meet are just
fascinating people and there'sso many good people out there,
both LDS and non-LDS, and I tryto do that in my writing career
as well, because I write somebiblical historical fiction and
I try to talk to people who arenot members of the church about

(03:31):
that and we have some reallyinteresting conversations there.
So that's a little bit of thebackground and still having a
lot of fun, still writing.
I have 12 books now.
I'm about to release the 13thand the 14th in pretty short
order and then I'm working on areally fun one next.
That is going to be my firstChristmas story.

(03:51):
I said I'd do a Christmas storyand it's going to be called.
Yep, it's going to be calledthe Most Useless man in the
Apocalypse a Christmas story.

Okay, that just sounds on so many levels, so
intriguing, it'll be fun.

I've got most of the outline done for that one.
It's going to be fun, is it?

I mean, the title sounds comical, is it a
little more comical.

It won't be, yeah , it won't be, slapstick comedy,
right?
So it's like remember thedifference between remember the
best two years and what's thereturn, the RM.

The RM.

Right, the RM was slapstick comedy, right.
Yes, really funny, but that wasfunny in a slapstick way.
And then the best two years washilarious but it was more
serious situational type ofcomedy right Right, Still
hilarious.

And so this will be more.

You know, a more serious book and it's more
serious.
Situational comedy, right,right, Still hilarious, and so
this will be more.
You know, a more serious bookand it's a serious topic.
We're talking about apocalyptickinds of things, right, but
it'll, you know, it'll hopefullyhave enough humor in there to
keep you entertained.

Well, I can't wait.
That sounds awesome.
I mean, you got Christmas, yougot the apocalypse and you got
people who are useless like that.

How can you go wrong?
It's not to like and it ispatterned after yours truly.
Like I look out at the worldand I see all these people like
my dad who can fix anything.
Who can do anything?
He was a mechanical engineerand also a mechanic.
He could tear apart the car andput it back together.
He could tear apart heavyequipment and put it back
together.
He can do electrical, he can doplumbing, everything and I

(05:33):
didn't really learn too much ofthat because I just wasn't
interested.
I was interested in all kindsof other things and so I learned
some things.
But I look at some of thethings other people can do and
I'm like man, I'm useless.
When things go south Right, orif things go south in our area,
I don't know what's going tohappen.
Right, I'm not.

(05:55):
I'm not that useful.

I mean, I can, like, take a wheelbarrow and a
shovel and I can move dirt fromspot A to spot B, but that's
kind of it yeah, when you and Iget to the apocalypse, mike,
we're gonna be in trouble,because I could be like, hey, do
you need help with your ratingsand reviews, and you'll be like
, hey, do you need help withyour finances.

That's right I was gonna say, this is I.
So I've always theorized thatif I make it to the apocalypse,
especially the zombie apocalypse, I am going to be comic relief.
I can give people haircuts.
I'm a really slow runner, so,worst case scenario, I'll be
baked or I'll be the sacrificeEveryone's got to get away.

(06:42):
So let's run really fast andleave Alisha behind.
There's a job for everyone, andyou're, this is number 14, 15,
which one?
Will this be 15?

the, the, yeah, the christmas, one would be end
up being number 15 gotchameanwhile.

I need to get to that 20 book club.

So I'm still working on it, right?

Yeah, you're like kicking them out like as
fast as Brandon Sanderson man,it's crazy.

Not that fast because I do not have his staff
and I don't have full time todevote to it either.

How do you do it ?
How do you write books soquickly, for real?

I don't know actually.
I mean, people ask me as well,do you get writer's block?
And I think I used to a littlebit, but once I, once I kind of
know where I'm going, it kind offlows and you get better at
things.
Right, and you do the more youget better at them, and that's
certainly true of this.
My first few books were harderto write than my last few books,
and so you know, I, I, I workout how the story is more or

(07:48):
less going to go, and then I,and then I go right, I start
writing, and it flows prettywell and I, I think in part I'm
just I've just been blessed tobe able to churn some of these
out that have turned out reallywell, and I have a pretty high
standard for what I think isgood writing, so so they have to
be pretty good before I releasethem yeah, but yeah, it's been

(08:09):
fun, though.

Uh, it's been a lot of fun so I have a question
and I know I mean I don't know,I guess we can talk about
whatever we want to.

So yeah, I warned you that that's what how this
was going to go right because,I'm not kind of a move, we're
just going to talk aboutwhatever.

So I you know I've been to a lot of writers
conferences and different bookcoaches and stuff.
And it's interesting because Ifeel like every author really
has their own way of doingthings right, like some people
who just sit down, just pen topaper and they just start
writing and they don't like mapanything out.
Then you have others who arelike meticulously, like
outlining the whole thing beforethey even write the first

(08:45):
sentence.
Then you have others who likethey write the ending first and
then they try to get everythingto go to the ending.
Others start beginning.
So what do you do when you'relike what's your process?

I guess I mean it's it's that's interesting
because it's been kind of a mix.
Um, mostly I do like to have afull outline done before I start
writing, and so I pretty muchknow where it's going to go.
There's always room for turnsand twists and even alternate

(09:16):
endings.
Sometimes too, as you go along,you just figure out yeah, I was
going to end it this way, nope,that's not going to work
anymore.
Or this thing is going to workbetter, right, and so those
things are just going tonaturally happen over the course
of the writing.
I'll sometimes write with alittle bit of an ending in mind,
but normally, you know, youhave kind of an overall plot or

(09:44):
something you want to achievewith it, or maybe a story or a
message you want to, you want toshare, and for me, a lot of
times it's a message I want toshare.
Right I?
There's certain things I, andthat's just who I am.
Right I, in my, in mynonfiction and in my fiction and
I've written mostly fiction Iam trying to spread the gospel.

(10:05):
That's what I'm trying to do.
Even in the science fiction orthe fantasy.
I'm trying to spread the gospeland I just I can't get myself
not to do that.
All right, that's what I am.
But I've had situations whereyou know I'll do a full outline.
But then I've had situationswhere I struggle with the

(10:26):
outline, I really don't knowwhere this is going to go next.
I just got to start writing itand then I'll know where it's
going to go, and that is so.
That has happened to me as well.
So I just start writing it andI get through that first part of
the outline.
I'm like, ok, yeah, now I knowwhere it's going to go next, and
now I know where it's going togo next, and now I know where
it's going to go next.
So it's an interesting processand it depends on the project

(10:46):
and it depends on the goalssometimes of that project.
So, yeah, a lot of fun.
The nonfiction one wasinteresting because I had
started out with a thought, apremise, that I got from another
book and our daughter had givenme this book that she had

(11:09):
intended to give our son, who'sa US Army captain, and he had
already read it twice, and itwas a book on business
leadership basically, but it waswritten by two ex-US Navy SEALs
, jocko Willink and Leif Babin,called Extreme Ownership how US
Navy SEALs, jocko Willink andLeif Babin, called Extreme
Ownership how US Navy SEALs Leadand Win.
And of course, that's right upmy wheelhouse from my first
career, which is in corporatefinance not personal finance,

(11:31):
but corporate finance and so I'dread lots of business
management books and books onleadership and such.
And she gave me that book and Iread it and I was like, huh
well, this is really interesting.
You know what the best book onleadership in the world is?
What I'd say the Book of Mormon.
Yeah, the Book of Mormon.
That's the book.

I know some people say the Bible, but I feel
like there's a lot moreleadership examples in the Book
of Mormon, like military and youthink of that.
You know what I mean.

Yeah for sure.
So to me it's the Book ofMormon, right?
That's the best book onleadership in the world.
So why don't we write a similarsort of business management
book, if you will, not reallyfocused on business, but a
leadership book focused on theBook of Mormon?
And that's where intensestewardship models from the Book
of Mormon came from is thosethoughts, and so I.

(12:23):
So I started thinking about okay, who do I want to?
I want to have, I want todevote chapters to various
people that we meet in the Bookof Mormon, and, and I ended up
wanting to include Joseph SmithJr as well.
He's he's not a he's not anactor in the Book of Mormon, but
he's mentioned.
He's mentioned in the Book ofMormon, of course, in the Book

(12:45):
of Mormon, but he's mentioned inthe Book of Mormon, of course.
He's the key person who broughtthe Book of Mormon to light for
us, right?
So there's a chapter on him.
And then, of course, we've gotsome of the standbys that you
would expect, like Nephi andAlma and Captain Moroni and
Mormon, so you got a number ofthose.
And then you also have peoplelike Laconius, right?

(13:07):
And then we try to talk alittle bit about the women.
We don't have enough or verymuch detail on some of the women
, but I'd like to talk aboutthat a little bit as well.
Then I threw in a couple ofbonus essays that were somewhat
related and I had my editorsaying well, I don't know if you
should include those, but youknow what I wanted to, so I did.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

It's a lot of fun to write, yeah, and the goal
was just.
I wanted to just show peoplehow critical the Book of Mormon
is as a blueprint for goodleadership in your individual
life, in your family life, inyour family life, in your
community life, everywhere.
The Book of Mormon can help yoube a leader in whatever sphere
of influence you have.

That's cool.
I'm going to have to pick thatone up.

How long does it take you to typically write a
book?

Well, I'm putting out probably two to three a
year is what I'm doing.
So, uh, about six monthsroughly, and I usually have two
or three going at the same time,and so then then they just get
staged, if you will.

That is incredibly talented, incredibly
talented, I know I mean Scottcan do some books pretty fast
too.
You did like some of yourbusiness books really fast,
right, scott?

yeah, this last one's been about four to six
months, but right, okay, I'mdoing that at work all day.
I'm like working on, I'mputting a lot of time into that
book, so you're so, but you'vegot a lot of other things going
on too.

I do, yeah.
So I still work part-time for abig company in Chicago.
So I'm still doing thecorporate finance stuff and I'm
doing you know, the president ofLDS PMA stuff, which is more
than more than they told me itwas going to be.
They invited me to do that,which it's fine, but totally
fine, but it's it's.
It's a little bit more work andthen lots of other things as

(15:07):
well, but when you're marriedyeah yeah, we have young kids
and we're doing stuff with them.
Yeah, oh yeah, I've.

I've always heard if you want anything done,
ask a busy person.
You know, like ask the busiestperson, you know, if you want
something done, they'll get itdone.
I'll figure it out.
I don't know how you do it, butyou do it.
Make it work.
Wow, well, cool.
So I mean, I don't really knowhow to segue from here to there,
but let's just turn it over toyou.

Yeah, Well, one of the things, um, I told you
there's some really interestingpeople I get to meet and so
sometimes I'll get these randomemails, and I recently got a
random email from another formermember or former president of
LDSPMA named Mariana Richardson,and she's been working with

(15:59):
this professor at BYU-Idahonamed oh, I wrote his name down
so I wouldn't forget it Medlier.
It's a it's a interesting firstname Medlier-Mema, and he's a
political science professor atBYU Idaho.
And she said hey, um, Medlier,here is, is is working with and

(16:20):
I did a little more researchafterward and he's connected
with faith matters.
So you've heard of FaithMatters and they're working on
this and maybe I'll.
I've got this pulled up here.
They're working on somethingwith regards to AI and there's a
lot of really interestingthings going on with AI, right,

(16:40):
and Faith Matters is doingsomething on November 4th and
5th in Provo, Utah, and they'recalling it Organized
Intelligence Latter-day SaintPerspectives on AI, and they're
going to do this conference andthey're going to talk about
things like how might emergingAI technologies reshape
societies over the long term?
How could AI influencespiritual life, religious

(17:04):
expression and human divinerelationships?
In what ways can faithcommunities prepare for and
engage with the disruptions AImay bring and where are the most
promising opportunities toapply AI for good?

(17:29):
So they reached out to me saying, hey, do you know some people
who we could contact becausewe're putting together this
conference that are in theartistic space?
Right, In various differentdisciplines?
Right?
So LDSPMA encompasses all kindsof artists, not just writers
like me, but filmmakers andpainters and musicians,
composers and such so lots ofdifferent people, and AI is

(17:49):
having an impact on all thosedifferent spaces, right.
And so they wanted to talk tosome people like that, and so I
gave them some names people likeStephen Lemon, who's the he's
the CEO of Havenlight and theydo mainly LDS but Christian
themed art, and his mother isLiz Lemon Swindle, who did that
famous painting for the chosen,and so I gave him that name and

(18:13):
a couple of other names.
I gave him the name of, uh,Kristen Yee, who came and spoke
at our conference last year,sister Kristen Yee from the
general relief societypresidency, and she's an artist.
Right, and the church has a Idon't know what they call it.
It's a working group in thechurch, an official permanent
working group in the church thatis devoted to how to deal with

(18:34):
AI issues and how the church isgoing to utilize AI and help its
members understand AI, thatsort of thing.
So this is a really interestingtopic.
So I, you know, I get AI thatsort of thing, so this is a
really interesting topic.
So I get fun emails like thatand then it gets me to thinking.
And then, coincidentally, I hadjust seen and maybe you saw this

(18:56):
as well, but last week ElderGong went to Turkey and he was
attending the Religions forPeace World Council in Istanbul
and he gave a talk called Faith,Ethics and Human Dignity in an
Age of Artificial Intelligence ACall to Action.

(19:18):
And he's been working with thischurch working group for a
while now and of course he hassome help when he writes talks
like this.
This talk was fairly technicalin places and in other places it
wasn't, and so he obviously hadsome help on parts of it, but
he really said some interestingthings here.

(19:40):
I'll just read a small portion,if you don't mind, of what he
said here.
He said I believe so he'sspeaking to world religious
leaders, Elder Gong, as anapostle of Jesus Christ.
He said I believe that we asreligious leaders can take
action on three fundamental AIissues now.

(20:00):
First, we must be clear and helpsociety understand that AI is
not and cannot be God.
There are people in society whobelieve that AI may become God.
Many talk too glibly about AIbecoming God or God-like AI.
Ai training data is sourced byhumans.
Ai's moral and ethicalprinciples are only those its

(20:24):
creators consciously inject andalign.
Even if AI training changes orif we achieve AGI, which is
artificial general intelligence,or ASI artificial
superintelligence, we know thatreasoning, even superhuman
reasoning, has limitations.
Man is not, and certainlydivinity is not, defined solely

(20:47):
by reasoning.
No set of utilitarian AIalgorithms should determine or
speak for our most treasuredhuman values and spiritual
experiences.
Ai cannot provide inspireddivine truth or independent
moral guidance.
Human benevolence, compassion,judgment, optimism, faith, that

(21:07):
which speaks to and for oursouls requires lived experience
and authentic relationships.
And then he goes on and talksabout how, if we deify AI, we're
trying to build the Tower ofBabel.
That sounds like a greatanalogy to me.
Yeah, yeah, as a creation ofGod, man can create AI, but AI

(21:27):
cannot create God.
That was an interestingstatement he made and I'm
skipping a little bit here.
Our most precious truth,comfort, revelation, guidance
come when we personally communewith the divine.
Spiritual truth and light comefrom understanding who God is in
creation and the universe Forthe children of God.

(21:48):
Platforms and technologiescannot substitute for authentic
divine connection andrelationship.
And then he quotes PresidentNelson, who said the privilege
of receiving revelation is oneof the greatest gifts of God to
his children, and AI is not setup to ever do that.
And there's a lot of otherreally, really good things there

(22:11):
, but one of the things thatsegues me to is this current
battle about who we are insociety, and so I'll look to
address these kinds of issues inthe books that I write.
So one of the books I'm workingon right now is science fiction
, and they're dealing with someartificial intelligences that

(22:34):
are really, really advanced,right, and so you get to talk
about some of these issues, andso I'm taking advantage of that,
right, and in the way I talkabout them, Right, and in the
way I talk about them, but I butI think about you know Satan is
really trying to confuse us,and especially our youth, about
who they are as sons anddaughters of God and what that

(22:58):
really means, Right, and what itreally means is that you have
unlimited potential, absolutelyunlimited, and that you have
heavenly parents, and this isone of the places we really
diverge from mainlineChristianity, right, but it
makes so much sense.
We have a heavenly father and aheavenly mother, right, and

(23:20):
they love us intensely, morethan we can possibly imagine,
and they see us for who wereally are and they see our
potential and they see how weprepared before we came to this
earth to handle all of thethings we're being faced with.
And there's some really toughchallenges, right, but we
prepared for those and we havethose parents behind us and we

(23:43):
have so much potential.
And Satan wants to tell usthat's not true and that you're
not even a man or a woman,You're just a thing.
That's what Satan's trying toget us to believe.
Ai is a better thing than youare.
You're just a thing.
And now we've created betterthings and you're no longer that

(24:04):
great, right.
Well, if he can get us to adoptthat sort of attitude, we're not
going to achieve much, we'renot going to help each other
much, we're not going to loveeach other much and we're just
not going to do things right.
We're just going to kind ofgive up and lay over and die.
Remember, in the final battlesof the Nephites, they didn't lay

(24:24):
over and die.
But they, they, they wanted tofight for their lives.
But they, their lives weren'tworth much.
They cursed God and werewilling to die, right, they just
, they were so far away from Godat that point they would.
They would go ahead and fight,partly because the bloodlust was
upon them right, and that's areal thing.
But they just, it was allhopeless.

(24:48):
And we don't want to.
We certainly don't want to getto that point and the Lord is
helping us not get to that point.
He's.
There's so many people rising upand sharing these kinds of
messages with us.
Now.
I'm so impressed with so manyof them, not just within the
church but outside the church,People who are really just

(25:08):
putting together some fantasticmessaging and reaching so many
people about who you are and whoChrist is and what your
relationship to God should belike.
And I likened it here recently.
So what's his name?
Kevin Young, the BYU men'sbasketball coach.
He shared a message with hisplayers the other day and he

(25:32):
said you know, champions arethose who can do the basics of
basketball exceptionally welland on a consistent basis.
They do the basics really,really well and that's how they
win championships.
And obviously that's acombination of talent and
practice.
You have to have some of bothright.

(25:53):
You can't just be talentless andbecome an NBA great.
So you have to have some talent, but you have to really work
hard at it and become so good atthe basics of basketball, the
basics of dribbling and passingand shooting and some of the
defensive basics and thedefensive awareness and all of
the conceptual awareness ofwhat's going on in the court.

(26:13):
You have to get really good atthose basics Right and then you
can become a champion.
And that's the same for us.
We need to be really good atprayer.
We need to be really good atstudying the scriptures.
We need to be really good atattending to our church duties
and at serving people and at,you know, taking advantage of
opportunities for service thatcome our way.
They just pop into existence infront of us, right, we have to

(26:35):
get good at that stuff.
That's the basics.
And if we get good at that andhere's where the analogy
diverges right In the NBA worldonly one team becomes champion,
right, they're the ones that arebetter at those basics than
anybody else In the Lord'seconomy.
If all of us get really good atthose basics, we can all become

(26:58):
champions, and so it's reallygood to have the opportunity as
a writer to express some of that.
In what I write, whether it'snonfiction or fiction, and even
in my day job, if you will, mypart-time job with a company in

(27:19):
Chicago.
I can incorporate a lot ofthose principles in everything I
do and how I treat people, howI approach problems, how
diligent I am.
All those sorts of things rightcan apply, and I do get a lot
of people, you know, asking mewell, how did you come up with
that, or how did you do that, orhow did you, you know, lead us
through that problem right, andit's just, you know, we just

(27:41):
apply these basic lessons and weview, and we view people with
the right perspective.
I'm going to stop rambling nowbefore.

I go.
No, I love it Another one.

So this is fast.
It's a fascinating just to hearsome of the things you're
talking about.
Like, I can really resonatewith the AI feeling making you
feel like you're not important,because you can start to feel it
already and AI isn't even thatsmart yet.
But the more we start to relyon it, the more we don't have to

(28:20):
think so much and I can see usbecoming more and more dependent
on AI to the point where itdoes affect our personal work.
Right ai to the point where itdoes affect our personal.
Yeah, we're right, because ifwe think, oh, it's smarter than
us or it's you know we don't, Ican see how it could definitely
affect your self-worth and, um,yeah, change the way we look at
our divinity and for satan.

It's a two-pronged attack.
He's attacking not just theindividual with issues around AI
and lots of other things too,right, so other issues too.
You know, pornography is a bigone.
He's attacking the individualthat way.
He's also attacking familiesthat way.
But that's the other prong isthe attack on the family.
So he's attacking theindividuals and he's attacking
the families, because theindividual and the family are

(29:05):
really symbiotic.
We need families.
And family is the most powerfulstructural unit in the universe.
It really is, and if he candestroy individuals and families
, then in his mind he wins.
He wins it all.
I think.
My personal opinion for somereason, I think Lucifer still
believes he can win.

(29:25):
I don't know what that meansexactly, but somehow he still
thinks he can win and he can't.
But that's what he's trying todo.
And I remember and I recordedthis, I wrote it down or I put
it in a spreadsheet.
See, wrote it down is kind ofour way of saying I put it in a
spreadsheet today.
Right Used to be, you'd writeit down on a piece of paper.

(29:46):
So she gave a talk.
Julie B Beck gave a talk toseminary and institute teachers
back in August, on August 4th of2009.
I had a hard time finding thisand in fact, I used AI to find
it.

(30:06):
And at first and I was usingGrok, which is what X uses and
at first it got it wrong becauseit gave me what it thought was
the answer and I was like, hmm,that doesn't sound right,
because it had a couple ofthings that just didn't match up
, because it was saying it wasit had come from general
conference.
And then it gave a March dateand I was like, yeah, that's not
General Conference or notnormally right.

(30:27):
I mean, there could be theweird exception.
So I did a little more researchand I said, nope, you're wrong,
it was here.
I found it.
And they said, oh, yeah, you'reright, here it is.
Anyway, she gave this address toseminary and institute teachers
and it was printed in the March2011 ensign 2011 ensign and
that's where it had gotten theMarch date.

(30:47):
But she gave the address inAugust 4 of 2009.
And she said we also face theproblem that we read about in
Ephesians 6.12, for we wrestlenot against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, againstpowers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world,against spiritual wickedness in
high places.
Public policies are being madeevery day that are anti-family,

(31:09):
and the definition of family ischanging.
Legally around the world,pornography is rampant For those
who create pornography.
Their new target audience isyoung women.
Parents are being portrayed asinept and out of touch.
Anti-family media messages areeverywhere.
Youth are being desensitizedabout the need to form eternal

(31:31):
families.
We see how this can happen whenwe read the words of Korahor,
the Antichrist Quote.
Thus he did preach unto them,leading away the hearts of many,
causing them to lift up theirheads in their wickedness, yea,
leading away many women and alsomen to commit whoredoms.
Unquote.
Satan knows he will never havea body, he will never have a

(31:52):
family, so he targets youngwomen who will create the bodies
for the future generations.
Korahor was an antichrist.
Antichrist is anti-family.
Any doctrine or principle ouryouth hear from the world that
is anti-family is alsoanti-Christ.
It's that clear, wow, powerfulstuff, right.

Yeah, powerful.
And that was what year 2009,.

She said that Wow , August of 2009.
That is like a spot on.
A few years ago, I met somebodywho is LDS Her name is Kimberly
Els and I had read something Ithink she'd written for the
Federalist, which is kind of anonline news source, called the

(32:42):
Invincible Family how the global, let's see what's the the
Invincible Family, how the waron or how the attempt to crush
motherhood and fatherhood can'twin something like that.

(33:10):
And so I decided I'd read thisbook.
And she has worked with FamilyWatch International and they've
interfaced with various UNagencies.
By the way, fair warning, thereare a lot of people working in
UN agencies who are downrightevil, working in the UN trying
to destroy the family so thatthe state can take over
everything, because in theirminds they think, like Satan did

(33:30):
, that the state is the one whocan do a better job than the
family can of raising people andteaching them how to be good
people.
Right, and that's justcompletely antithetical Right,
just completely antitheticalright, and that's that's
antichrist.
But she wrote this fabulousbook and uh, and I've since, um,
you know, gotten to talk morewith her and she goes, she's

(33:50):
done, she's spoken at the UNherself now.
Uh, she's been on and done along form interview with Tucker
Carlson Uh, she did one with umDr Ben Carson on his podcast, Uh
, so she's gone on to do a lotof things.
She also went to there's a newthing called the Alliance for
Responsible Citizenship, so ifyou go to arcforumcom you can

(34:15):
learn a little bit about that.
And it was started by a groupof people and they do an annual
conference in London and theseare pretty high powered people
that are more conservativeleaning and more Christian
leaning, but not all Christiansand not all conservatives and
boy, they do some reallyinteresting things.
And I've been watching some ofthose talks and I watched a

(34:37):
fascinating one by I think hername is Catherine Burblesing and
she's the headmistress of whatis purported to be the most
difficult primary school inEngland, or whatever they call
them primary school or secondaryschool, I don't so it's like a
high school right.
And she gave a fabulous talkabout how they teach their
students about responsibilityand about principles and cause

(35:01):
and effect and all theconsequences, and they hold them
accountable Cause and effectand all the consequences, and
they hold them accountable, andwe just don't see enough of that
today, like we used to.
So, anyway, I'm learning lotsof things.
This has been just a fascinatingjourney.
I'm no longer spending all ofmy time in an office in Chicago.
I'm getting to do lots ofdifferent things.

Like talk to you guys.
I love that.
It's um, it's interesting to mehow broad your perspective is
on things and how we've gonefrom like one thing to another
to another, to another, toanother, but it all feels
connected.
You know, like I, I kind of goback to what you said earlier
about how you're writing books,no matter what type of book it

(35:47):
is.
Your main thought, something youcan't seem to get away from, is
spreading the gospel yeah,right and I love it because I
feel like a lot of people theytend to, they tend to feel like
they have to like disconnecttheir faith with their like
career or their education orsomething like that.
Yeah, and I think with, uh, inregards to the family and and

(36:10):
just like Satan destroying theindividuals in the family.
Um gosh, what was this?
We were listening to thistherapist that was talking and
she said something.
I might watch this, but shesaid something about for the
first time in history, there aremore women over the age of 30
who are not mothers, they're notmarried, they don't have babies

(36:33):
.
Then there are women who havebabies and are married under the
age of 30.
And it's like what, like what Imean I had my last baby at 30.
You know what I mean.
Like I was done having babiesat 30 and just it feels to me as
a woman, yeah, things thatsatan is really trying to force,

(36:57):
other than just pornography andand and he really is getting
women that way, like, oh, youshould be free, you should
expect yourself.
Yeah, right, yeah, and I'm allfor like a hundred percent.
Like I think we as women need toremember that we're, that we're
not just wives and we're notjust moms, that there is a whole

(37:19):
different side of us.
That's just a woman, right?
And so I think career,education, personal goals,
hobbies, interests, like stuff,that's just you, just for you.
It's so, so important.
Otherwise you end up losingyourself and then you're not as
fit of a wife or mom either, andit gets murky when you just put
all of your eggs into oneidentity, right, one part of

(37:43):
your identity.
But I have noticed that thereare just a lot of things out
there that are talking to womenabout how you can do it all
yourself, and I'm like what?
Yeah, like, maybe for a shortperiod of time, but you can't do
it as well as what you would beable to do it if you had a
partner who's working with you,of the opposite gender, who who

(38:04):
can bring to the table all thesedifferent oh yeah, different
perspectives and andresponsibilities and I don't
know, just anyway.

So it's one of one of the things that we learn
about the priesthood throughjoseph smith that we still
haven't fully grasped yet isthat the power of the priesthood
can only achieve great thingswhen a man and a woman are
cooperating together, when menand women are working together.
That's when the priesthoodpower is fully evident.

(38:34):
That's why we have a heavenlyfather and a heavenly mother.
Heavenly father couldn't havedone it himself.
Heavenly mother couldn't havedone it herself.
All of this is the result ofmen and women working together,
all of it.
That's what the priesthood isabout.
It's not about who holds aposition and who has what keys.
It's about men and womenworking together to access the

(38:57):
powers of heaven.
That's really what it is, andJoseph tried to teach us that,
and we're still learning.

Yeah, there was an interesting thing I heard the
other day and I didn't verifyit, so fact check me, I guess
but uh, someone brought up theywere talking about the
priesthood and how there there'sthis, um, this belief and in
the church that, uh, thepriesthood is only meant for men
, like men will only ever be theones that do all the priesthood

(39:26):
things like yeah, likepreparing sacrament, passing
sacrament, but supposedly backin the early days of the church,
women prepared the sacrament.

Sure.

Right and like, if you talk about going into the
temple or something like that,like there are, there are
blessings that are being givenin the temple by women, right?
So there are things that aredone with power by women Right
now the roles are not spread aswide and as far it's what some

(39:57):
people would like them to be buthaving smart and I think
there's a reason for that, andit's because, yeah, you know,
men need to learn one thing andwomen need to learn another
thing and right, and we are allmen or women, right, but we
don't all fit in, you know, a anicely defined basket, if you
will, right, or bucket.

There's infinite personalities, right, there's
lots of crossovers in terms oflikes and dislikes and
personality types and thingslike that.
We're just not all the same,right, and that's one of the
things.
So you may have heard of ChrisElston he also goes by the
moniker Billboard Chris, andhe's been on this crusade, if

(40:42):
you will, to stop childhoodmutilation.
So that is, children, you know,being kind of forced, coerced.
They really are being coerced.
They're children and they'rebeing coerced into permanently
altering their bodies becausethey're being taught that, no,
you're really not a boy, you'rea girl, or you're not a girl,
you're a boy, and and they andthen they just get into and they
start taking these hormones andthey start having surgeries,

(41:05):
and you listen to some of theseheartbreaking stories from the
detransitioners, and but anyway,chris Elston is is, you know,
trying to get people to leavethe kids alone, right, there's
nothing wrong with them, they'rebeautiful as they are and they
just have lots of differenttypes of personalities, right,
right, and so don't let themgrow up, right, let them grow up

(41:26):
.
And Heavenly Father looks at usthat same way.
He wants us to grow up and helets us make our own choices,
and we have the power to makethose choices.
Right Doctrine and Covenants 58, right.
He tells us to takeresponsibility for doing good
things, achieving much good.

(41:48):
Use our own will to do thatright, because the power is in
us.
That's what we earned in thepre-existence we fought to have
that power of agency right.
And he's going to let us grow upand then make our choices.
And we need to let our childrengrow up and they can make their
choices right.
We're going to teach them asbest we can and they're going to
make their choices and thosechoices, you know, will
determine their destiny, willdetermine, you know, where they
go after this.

Yeah, it reminds me of Vinnie Tolman when he was
on here he talked to us.
Reminds me of Vinnie Tolman whenhe was on here, he talked to us
, he has this quote and it sayshe says you know life, life is a
classroom, not a courtroom.
Yeah, you know like we're, wedon't need to come here and feel
like we have to get everysingle thing, like like every
decision, justified.
We did this for this reason andwe're like it'd be just.

(42:30):
No, it's learning, it's we'resupposed to experience things,
we're supposed to learn, we'resupposed to grow, we're supposed
to be awkward in some of ourchoices and be wrong in some of
our choices and like how elseare we supposed to right, learn,
to be more like heavenly fatherand to really reach our full
potential?
yeah we don't learn right, likewe don't actually experience

(42:53):
things, and we don't make thosechoices and we let other people
choose for us what we need to doand how we need to do it, and
where we need to be and what itneeds to look like, you know.

Yeah, and we need to learn the courage to stand
for truth.
Right, we need to learn truthand then we need to find the
courage to stand for it.
Right, and that's hard.
And again, going back to thechosen, I'm just so impressed
with how well they've put thatall together.
And Christ himself tells us manytimes that the world will hate
us, and I mentioned to youbefore we started the show that
I just finished reading a bookcalled when Culture Hates you,
and it's by a non-LDS Christianlady and she talks about that.
Right, there are these issuesout there today and Christianity

(43:40):
is hated by much of the worldbecause of some of these issues.
But well, they hated Christ.
Right, because he told them thetruth.
He had perfect compassion, andpart of that perfect compassion
was teaching people the truthand holding them accountable for
their choices.
Right, because he knew who theywere and what they could

(44:01):
achieve if they could learn thetruth and then learn to stand
boldly for that truth and makethe kinds of choices that would
then lead them closer to theirfather in heaven and to the
power that he has.

Right, and I think the cool thing that we I
mean it's cool about Christ themcloser to their father in
heaven and to the power that hehas.
Right, and I think the coolthing that we I mean it's cool
about Christ doing that it'ssomething sad that we don't
remember he did that and hecontinued to love them where
they were at.
Yes, he continued to love themwhere they were at.
He continued to help them inthe ways that he could help them
.
He didn't like berate them andhe didn't ostracize them and he

(44:36):
didn't just say well, go mess up, do what you're ever going to
do and good luck with that.
I'll come back and say I toldyou so, it was never that.

And that's harder for us sometimes, isn't it?
It's a little harder for us,but we need to learn how to do
that.
Yeah, take it over theconversation Scott go.

So this has been a really interesting
conversation.
We talked about a lot ofdifferent things.
I'm wondering.
I mean, you've had your careerin finance, you've kind of gone
into this second career, intowriting, this second career into

(45:20):
writing, and you mentioned howthe gospel is kind of interwoven
into everything you do.
I just turned 50 this last week, so I've been thinking about my
legacy, yeah right.
And so now that you've beensemi-retired for a few years and
you've written all these books,like what do you think about

(45:44):
legacy or enduring to the end?
Like what are some of yourthoughts on that?

I'm just curious I don't have a lot of thoughts
about legacy.
I really don't, because I thinkwhat the Lord is trying to help
us do is think forward to whathis promises mean for us in the
future, and that's where ourfocus should lie, right.

(46:11):
So, remember, he talks about,you know, treasures on earth
versus treasures in heaven, andif we're focused on what our
potential is, what we canachieve, I mean, I guess legacy
becomes part of that.
But I don't think about it muchbecause I'm trying to think

(46:31):
more about, okay, how do Iutilize some of the talents and
opportunities that I have tohelp people, because the
ultimate goal is for us to getto a different place that we
don't fully understand yet.
But that is so amazing andwonderful and we feel it, we
catch glimpses of it and we feelhow important it is.

(46:54):
That's real, that's a realthing.
Neal A Maxwell talked about that, some of these inklings that
we'll get, not just about thefuture, but also he talked about
inklings from the preexistence,from the premortal existence
too.
But I think that's where mymind mostly is and at the end of
the day, here's the other thing.
I think that's where my mindmostly is, and at the end of the

(47:15):
day, you know.
Here's the other thing I thinkabout.
We're promised in Luke, andwe're also promised I don't
remember where in the Book ofMormon that you know, eventually
, everything's going to be known, nothing's going to be hidden,
right?
So all of these Gadiantonrobbers that are running around
in high places and PresidentNelson warned us about that back

(47:36):
in 2016, about all of the evilin high places that exist in
society, all these people whothink they can hide everything
from God they can't.
It's all going to get exposed,everything.
And so I think about thatpersonally, too.
I'm like, okay, well, okay.
So my family is going to knoweverything about me, right, past

(47:58):
and present.
Right, they're going to knoweverything.
And I need to be working towarda place where that's okay.
You know, I know that I've donebad things in the past, right,
that I've tried to repent of,and I'm trying to work toward a
place where I'm comfortable,that I've repented and I know

(48:23):
where I am and I know where Iwant to be and I know how to get
there and I feel like I'm doingmy best to get there.
And then all that other stuff,all the legacy stuff, I don't
think it matters.
Does that make sense.
That may be a counterintuitiveanswer, but that's kind of how I
think about it.

Okay, I mean.
So it sounds like you're you'remore focused on just making the
best of of the journey thatyou're on and not really
thinking about it and, like you,I yeah, I'm still figuring it
out that becomes your legacy,right?

right, it does Right, it does the way other
people will look at it.
Right, I'm still figuring itout.
Like you guys, we're allimperfect, we're all struggling,
we're all trying to learn fromeach other, which is again why I
enjoy these kinds ofconversations, because we all
get to learn together, we allget to help each other.
We reinforce each other.

(49:20):
Satan hates these kinds ofconversations he does not like
us doing this, by the waybecause we reinforce each other
and we help each other.
We, you know, we can and we canfigure out, uh, how to get from
point A to point B in ways thatmaybe we didn't think were
possible.

I had a thought when you were talking about just
how everything's going to bemade known right.
And on the one hand, that canbe scary if you have a lot of
things in your past that you'renot proud of Sure.
On the other hand, I like tothink for me and doing this
podcast has been a hugeeye-opener for me over the last

(49:58):
three plus years, in being ableto have different guests on who
share their stories, share theirperspectives.
I have learned that everysingle person has so much that
has happened to them.
They've had so many experiencesgood, bad and otherwise.
So many different relationships.
Like every human being is socomplex that there is no.

(50:22):
There is no like black andwhite, like you're good or
you're evil, like we're all bothyou know.
And how did the, how didsomeone get to this point?
And just because you would havemade a different decision, Well
it's because you had a differentexperience beforehand, like you
had different knowledge whenthat decision was being made,
and so I kind of like the ideaof everybody knowing everything,

(50:44):
because I feel like it's notgoing to be.
I don't feel like there's goingto be as much shame.
I almost feel like it's goingto be like a burden released off
our shoulders, where we're likeoh, like it's going to be like
a burden released off ourshoulders where we're like, oh,
now we don't have to try todefend ourselves or explain
ourselves, we don't have tocarry this like this, this guilt
, you know, or the shame, orthis remorse or this disgust

(51:07):
with ourselves.
Like we just get to know thateverybody gets to know
everything and they're going tounderstand why we made those
choices.
You're right you're going to beso proud of us for being like
you got.
You got over this, these thingshappen to you and this way, you
did all this good stuff.
Like, how amazing are you?

(51:28):
I mean, I just feel like we'regoing to have so much more love
for each other and just acomplete understanding and
knowledge of, yeah, all thethings that.
How?
Can we, you know, I just, Ijust, I don't know, that's my
personal thing, you're right.

It's all a matter of perspective and oftentimes
we are our own worst critics,right, and we unfairly paint
ourselves in a negative light alot.
We do that, right, but we needto get to the place where we
have that perspective, like youtalked about.
Your perspective has changedand God bless you both for doing
this podcast, because there areso many great stories out there

(52:05):
and I can see how yourperspective has been changed a
little.
And now you say, oh okay, well,gosh, well, I'm not judging
this person.
I mean, they went through somehard things, they did some bad
things, but they went throughsome hard things and they're
trying to get back on the rightpath and I respect that right.
And then you start to think,you start to figure out that
that's the way people are gonnalook at you too, like you just

(52:27):
said.
So I love that.
That's perfect.

Yeah, it's definitely made me personally
kind of approach people insituations in more of a curious
manner and not a judgy manner.
So when people are doing thingsthat I just totally don't agree
with, yeah I, I have a tendencyto sort of naturally go to the
curious, like yeah I wonder whatgot them to that point.
You know, like I wonder whathappened to them to make them

(52:52):
feel like that, that this isokay, you know, and you kind of
have this little inkling ofcompassion still being
protective of yourself or yourfamily or whatever else.
But it's definitely, I don'tknow.
It's different, and it feelslike you don't have to carry so
much weight because you don'thave to judge, which is the
great thing.
That's not our job.

(53:12):
We don't have to decide in theend who's good and who's not and
where people are going.
We just gotta love them and andkeep trying to be as good as we
can be on our own and oh yeah,can I?

can I share another point, an interesting
point of contact with you?
Um, so I was listening to thefollow him podcast, uh, by John,
by the way, and Hank Smith, andthey had a guest on and it was
Whitney Johnson and she is theCEO of disruption advisors and
she used to work with ClaytonChristensen who wrote the power

(53:48):
of everyday missionaries, right,and he was a big business guru
at Harvard and in that.
And so I thought and thoughtand she mentioned some really
interesting things and I thought, oh dang, I want to talk to her
.
And so I reached out to her aspresident of LDS PMA and she
responded and I just wentthrough their website, their

(54:08):
contact form, right, so younever know if you're going to
get a hit there or not.
And I just went through theirwebsite, their contact form,
right, so you never know ifyou're going to get a hit there
or not.
She responded we had a reallygood conversation and she clued
me into something I'd neverheard of before.
That has to do with the arts,right, and it was something that

(54:32):
President Kimball wrote back inFebruary of 1978.
And I guess the Liahona used tobe called Tambuli.
Of course, now we calleverything Liahona, and so this
appeared in February of 1978 in,I guess, what was called the
Tambuli, which was the Liahona,and he talks about the
expectations for Latter-daySaints.
And you just recentlyinterviewed Steve Piersanti,

(54:54):
who's the founder of LDSPMA.
Remember he talked to you abouthow he looked around in the
publishing space and he said,gosh, why aren't there more
Latter-day Saints here?
Because we could do so muchgood here, right, spreading the
light of the gospel here in thepublishing space.
We could do more good.
We have a lot of talent.
And so he started LDSPMA andthat's just amazing that he did

(55:18):
that.
I really admire Steve and theothers that worked with him in
doing that.
Well, president Kimball setthose expectations a long time
ago and he said look, we havethe spirit, we have the gift of
the Holy Ghost, we have accessto revelation in greater degrees
than most of humanity.

(55:38):
We should be good at everythingevery scientific endeavor,
every other kind of academicendeavor, the arts, everything.
We should be really good at itbecause we have access to the
full power of the spirit and weknow how to comport ourselves to

(55:58):
receive greater light andknowledge.
Right, we know how to do that.
And so he gave this great.
He put together this greatarticle and it was just
mind-blowing to me One of thethings he says at the very end.
He says take a Nicodemus and putJoseph Smith's spirit in him,
and what do you have?
Take a Da Vinci or aMichelangelo or a Shakespeare

(56:22):
and give him a total knowledgeof the plan of salvation of God
and personal revelation, andcleanse him.
And then take a look at thestatues he will carve and the
murals he will paint and themasterpieces he will produce.
Take a handle with hispurposeful effort, his superb
talent, his earnest desire toproperly depict the story and

(56:42):
give him inward vision of thewhole true story and revelation.
And what a master you have.
We have access to so much.
Have access to so much andwhether it's, you know, artistic
endeavors or scientific fieldsof inquiry or whatever it is,
even business right, even the,the, uh, you know boring

(57:05):
business world, if you will, andmy kids always thought it was
boring.
Um, there's, there's so manythings we can do with that kind
of power, right, and, and I, Ilove this.
I'm going to use this in someof the presentations I give Um,
but she turned me on to this,this, this person, the kind of
random person I was able toreach out to and and she
responded, so that was a lot offun.

(57:27):
So I'm, I'm, very I love thatquote.

Like it really, like you really think about,
like what would it have beenlike?
Like what could we see and hearand read?
And like what type of you knowwhat type of science to come out
, what type of like medical,like procedures and
pharmaceuticals, and like, canyou just imagine if you had

(57:50):
really faithful members of thechurch who just knew their stuff
and they had the spirit withthem and they were just really
genuinely trying to be likeeverything that the father
wanted them to be it?
makes me think leadershippositions and, yeah, inventors
and architects and I mean like,oh, yeah, for sure it makes me.

It makes me wonder how advanced the Nephite
civilization became, and eventhe Jaredites, because the
Nephites had some good longstretches of righteousness,
right, and, of course,especially after Christ's visit
to the Americas, and the Lordwould have blessed them in
innumerable ways, right, andthey had curious people, they

(58:34):
had artists, they had engineers,they had artists, they had
engineers, they had technicians,they had people who could, who
were curious about the world andhow it worked and how to make
it better, right, and so I thinkthey're, I think we're going to
discover that they were moreadvanced than we ever imagined.
In fact, when I was writing,when I was writing the servant
of helaman, I was thinking aboutthose kinds of things, right,

(58:56):
and you know, we tend to havethese images in our mind of them
living in huts and they'rewearing, you know, kind of short
robes that are made of animalskins and they look pretty
backward, right.

(59:26):
That's kind of the image thatwe have in our minds.
I don't think that was true,and, in fact, when I had an
editor I was working with andshe's LDS, and I had mentioned
them wearing pants, and she waslike pants, they didn't wear
pants and I'm like, well, how doyou know that?
How would they not wear pantsRight, especially if you
subscribe to the North Americanheartland theory of where most
of the Book of Mormon took place?
They would have endured somecold weather sometimes right,
and pants are not that easy tofigure out right.
It's not a great technologicalachievement to come up with

(59:47):
pants, so how would the Nephitesnot have ever been able to
figure that out?

Right.

So anyway, it was a fun conversation.

I've never thought of it either, but now
I'm like yeah that's funny wow.

Michael House (01:00:05):
Fortunately they didn't seem to make too many uh
technological improvements intheir weaponry right yeah like
we have right.
We have nuclear weapons and allkind of biological weapons.
Oh, my goodness gracious, We'vemade arguably we've made too
much progress scientifically inthat arena.

Alisha Coakley (01:00:23):
Right yeah.

Scott Brandley (01:00:26):
Well, let's change gears for a minute, with
the LDS PMA conference coming up.
With the LDS PMA conferencecoming up.
Yes, tell us a little bit aboutthat.

(01:00:49):
For people that have the desireto bring their inner artist out
, whether it's writing or videoor art or any of the other types
of things that are involved increativity.
Tell us a little bit about theLDS PMA and how people can get
involved in it or go to theconference, yeah, so um there,
yeah, there's two ways to quoteunquote be involved in it.

You can attend the conference and enjoy, uh,
the workshops uh that we havethere and the keynote speakers
that we have there.
We have some great keynotespeakers every year.
That's what kept me coming back.
I tried it out in 2022 just togive it a shot, to see what it
was like, and my expectationsweren't super high, but it was

(01:01:23):
really really good.
This year, our keynote speakersare Sherry Du.

What.

Yeah, we'll have Sherry.
We'll have Harry and DeborahBonner.

Oh, we love Bonner.

Yeah, we'll have Brad Pello, who's the executive
producer of the Chosen.
He'll be there speaking to us.
And we'll have J Scott Savage,who's an author.
He's up to 23 published novels,so that makes me a little
jealous, I'm only at 12.
But he'll be there speaking.
And then we have, you know,eight different tracks of

(01:01:56):
breakout sessions.
So you know, we've got, like Isaid, writers and artists, all
kinds of artists and filmmakers,and, and, of course, we try to
teach people about marketing andhow to market your work.
We're trying to help peoplenetwork and find different ways,
different avenues to sharetheir work with the world,
including commercially, right?

(01:02:17):
Right, not everyone's going tobe able to turn their artistic
talent into a full-timemoney-making endeavor, but some
can, some do.
And then we have other thingsgoing on throughout the world.
But you can go to or throughoutthe year, I should say
throughout the world.
That's the, that's the vision.

(01:02:38):
To have things going onthroughout the world.
That is part of our visionactually is to become more of a
global, global organization.
We have a few folks fromoutside the US and Canada, but
if you go to ldspmaorg, you canlearn more about the conference
and can learn more about thedifferent kinds of things that

(01:02:59):
we do.
We have that podcast calledCalled to Create.
We have monthly Zoom calls thatare interesting, that we learn
about different topics.
We have some master classesthat will be coming up in the
spring that you can sign up for.
But the conference is amazing.
I mean, if anyone out there is,you know, an aspiring artist,
even an established artist,there's lots of good to be had

(01:03:23):
and we're a little differentthan a lot of these other
industry conferences in that wereally do lean in firmly to our
faith and we certainly invitepeople who are not LDS to the
conference.
But while there, they will seethat we lean strongly into LDS

(01:03:46):
doctrine and LDS principles andwe want to understand who we are
and what our purpose is on theearth and how we can achieve
that purpose by working togetherat things like this conference.
It's a really, really goodconference.
Again, that's what kept mearound was my great experience
at that first conference in 2022.
And I think there we had MaoliJr Bonner, so one of the Bonner

(01:04:10):
sons was one of the speakers.
He's a fabulous dynamic.

That's the one Scott and I went to and it was.
I mean, we just were crackingup and yeah.

Gerald Lund was there.

Yep, I remember Jane.

Cleason Johnson was there.

Yeah, they had some really good ones.

And then there was an author Was it Rebecca
Nielsen?
There was an author that spokeas well.
Yeah, it's really, really good.
I've just been impressed.
We're going to give out someLifetime Achievement Awards as
well.
We do that every year.
Those are fun.
I actually got to helpcoordinate that.
This year we're going to giveone out to Don Bluth.

(01:04:51):
I know you've heard of DonBluth.
Yep, don Bluth.
I know you've heard of DonBluth.
We're going to give one out towhile I'm I should have these
things easily memorized hereCarla Kelly, who's an author,

(01:05:14):
and Sally DeFord, who is a kindof a composer, songwriter, and
she has done so much throughoutthe world like helping
Latter-day Saint congregationsby just giving them free music,
free stuff they can use.
She, she, and then she wasreally hesitant to receive an

(01:05:37):
award because she just wanted toserve.
She just wanted to serve people.

That's really cool.

Yeah, yeah.
So that's a, an awardwell-deserved.
We didn't want to embarrass herby it, right.
We wanted to recognize becausewe want other people to see the
example, right, right, becausewe want other people to see the
example, right, right, see thatkind of example, an example of
service and excellence in whatshe does.
So it's so much fun.

(01:06:04):
There's so many things thatwe're doing now that are really
really good things, and we dolean into our faith, and that's
why I really love it.
If we were kind of starting toveer off into trying to make
sure we were accepted by theworld, if you will, all of the
Babylonian gatekeepers itwouldn't be, it wouldn't be fun

(01:06:27):
for me, it just wouldn't be.
Not only would I have to fillout lots more paperwork, I just
wouldn't have fun doing Iwouldn't paperwork, I just
wouldn't have fun doing it.
I just wouldn't feel the same.

Well, why don't you tell everyone when is the
LDS PMA going to take place andhow do they get registered for
that?

Yep, so it's October 16th through the 18th,
so that's a Thursday, Friday,Saturday.
The main conference is Fridayand Saturday and we have deep
dive workshops that we offer onThursday, and so there's a
Monday session and an afternoonsession and there's lots of
different options there.

(01:07:08):
And again, you can go find thaton ldspmaorg and you can sign
up for just workshops.
If you want to do the deep diveworkshops, you can sign up for
the conference.
You can sign up for the gala inaddition to that.
So we have an awards gala onthe Friday night and you can
sign up for.
And there's a couple of otherthings you can sign up for as

(01:07:28):
well Fast pitches, like you cansign up to do fast pitch things.
And on the Friday morning let'sgo ahead.

Oh, I was going to say Now.
I know in the past there's beensome options for people to be
able to virtually attenddifferent classes.

Do you guys have that?
Yeah, so you can virtuallyattend as well.
Gotcha, yeah, so that is anoption Perfect and I will tell
you, and I do want to mentionthis, will tell you and I do
want to mention this.
The other way to get involvedwith LDSPMA is as a volunteer,
because we're an almost entirelyvolunteer-run organization.
We have about 70 volunteers.
We have two part-time paidstaff that you know help us with

(01:08:06):
some of the mechanics of thingsand they do a lot of good.
You know organizational workfor us as well.
But on Friday morning of theconference I will be awarding
the first annual Molly McKenzieAward for Exemplary Service to

(01:08:27):
one of our.
LDS PMA volunteers.
Molly McKenzie became one of ourvice presidents back in October
and she lives right close to me.
We're in Cache Valley and she'sin kind of the far Northern tip
of Cache Valley up in Preston,idaho, and uh, and she's just
just a fabulous dynamo of aperson really devoted to LDS PMA
and its mission, really lovedit and really loved the youth

(01:08:49):
and she was trying to do a lotwith the youth what we call next
gen.
And and then last Thanksgivingshe fell sick and she had this
fast acting sepsis of some sortand within two days she was dead
.
She died and it just shocked usall, obviously shocked her

(01:09:10):
family and shocked the rest ofus, and we decided we were going
to create this award in herhonor because she was so good at
, you know, volunteering hertime and her energy to this
organization.
So we're going to do thisannual award, the Molly McKenzie
Exemplary Service Award, andgive that out to a volunteer
every year and we're going tostart taking nominations at the

(01:09:33):
beginning of this month andwe'll stop taking them on the
15th.
As a board we'll choosesomebody and then I'll get to
make that award.
I think her husband will bepresent for that?

I guess not.
Now.
I'm going to do it, he's goingto be present when we give out
the award, I think.
I bet that'll be so sweet.
Thank you, Mike.
I thought we weren't crying onthis one.

I know.

Wow, that's awesome.
Oh well, thank you so much.
Is there anything that you'dlike to leave with listeners
today?
Any last thoughts or anythingbefore we wrap up?

like to leave with listeners today Any last
thoughts or anything before wewrap up.
No, just keep trying to getbetter at those basic things
that Heavenly Father has told us.
We need to get better at Obeythe commandments and get better
at prayer and get better at yourscriptures, and He'll help you
figure out what your purpose is.
There are a lot of people outthere who feel like they don't

(01:10:38):
have much talent, they don'thave much purpose.
That just you know.
Why are they?
Why are they even here?
Right, and the Lord can helpyou figure that out.
He really can, no matter howhard your struggles are.
Turn to Christ and he can helpyou figure that out.
You're a lot more powerful thanyou think you are and he'll

(01:10:59):
help you realize that, and thenhe'll help you figure out how to
channel that.
Once you've realized it, thenyou have to figure out how to
channel it so that you can kindof keep the wheel spinning.
Does that make sense?
Energy going, because it's easyto get kind of bogged down
again, because life is life,right.
I mean the food doesn't grow ontrees inside our houses that we

(01:11:21):
can just sit around and eat,right?
It's hard, life is really hard,and so we need to keep that
wheel going and let Christ helpus, continually help us, and he
will.
He's always, he's there, he'sactive, he's so active.
Every day we may look at anaspect of our lives or in our

(01:11:41):
community.
We live in Richmond, utah and Iwas just made ward mission
leader and a lot of people think, well, this is Richmond Utah,
there's not very manynon-members here to begin with,
and they've probably all gottensick of us, us LDS people anyway
.
So what could be really goingon in this part of the vineyard?

(01:12:01):
I guarantee you there's a lotgoing on.
The local people are activelyworking everywhere, everywhere,
all the time, and in fact, asproof of that, I literally was
set apart two weeks ago and Iwas invited to attend a ward
council.
The ward mission leader is notpart of the ward council anymore
, but I was invited to come toone.

(01:12:22):
And then last week, literallylast week somebody in our ward
boundaries, in our little wardboundaries in Richmond Utah.
They're small ward boundaries,not like Illinois where we had
huge ward boundaries, not likeIllinois where we had huge word
boundaries.
Somebody had responded to aFacebook ad from the church and

(01:12:43):
said I would like themissionaries to come by and
visit me Nice and I got thenotification.
The missionaries got thenotification and I got the
notification.
I was like, wow, you know.
I mean it's happeningeverywhere.
The second coming is real, it'shappening.
We may not know when, and Ican't understand all of the
fabulous computations peoplemake about prophetic timelines.

(01:13:05):
I don't get that stuff, butit's near.
President Nelson has told usit's near.
Get ready for the second coming, and part of that is just we
have to get good at the basics.
We just have to get to thebasics and understand who we are
and let him help us.
And he will Right.

Well, thank you so much for joining us again,
mike, and this was just a reallygood conversation.
I know it was a littledifferent than our normal format
where we have like a story andwhatever else, but I loved it.

I I have a lot of good little nuggets that I'm
going to take away and go rightdown.

I hope I, I hope I didn't ramble too much.

No, no, no, no, I get off and going and sometimes
that's a two mile race.

So I think you gave us a lot of good insight
and advice and things to thinkabout that you didn't give us
the traditional quotes oranswers.
You actually gave us somethings that we don't hear very
often or have never heard before.
So I agree with Alisha.

(01:14:10):
I think there's some reallygood takeaways from this and we
really appreciate your time.

Well, thank you.
We all need to keep learningright.

For sure.

Yeah.

All right.
Well, thanks again for comingon here today and thank you to
our listeners guys.
Remember, if you guys have astory you know, or even a topic,
I you know, scott and I arepretty, pretty flexible.
So if there's something thatyou just feel really passionate
about, you feel like, um, maybeyou can be sharing on our
podcast, reach out to us.
You can head over to latterlylatterlylightscom and fill out

(01:14:41):
the contact form on our websiteor you can, um, uh, email us at
latterlylights at gmail.
No, yeah, that's alllatterlylights at gmailcom.
I have too many emails that Ihave to remember sometimes and
we would love to be able to hearfrom you guys and maybe get
something scheduled.

Awesome.
Thank you both.
This was wonderful.

Yeah, thanks, mike, and thanks again for
everyone to tune in, and we'llsee you next week with another
episode from Latter-day Lights.
Until then, take care.
Bye-bye.

Byebye.

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Fostering Creative Community through Faith-Driven Fiction: Michael House's Story - Latter-Day Lights

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Fostering Creative Community through Faith-Driven Fiction: Michael House's Story - Latter-Day Lights