When trials get steep and hope runs thin, what keeps you hanging on to faith?
This Sunday, our 5-part “Faith to Stay” miniseries reaches its finale with a candid round-table discussion on “Enduring to the End.” Latter-Day Lights hosts Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley welcome viral missionary Carter Ellis, and faith-forged father Jon Coakley—to unpack why staying aboard the gospel “ship” matters more than ever.
From Carter’s galvanizing testimony that ignited social-media firestorms, to Jon’s revelation on Christ always walking beside the weary, each story pulls back the curtain on what faith looks like when life won’t let up, why admitting “spiritual fatigue” isn’t failure, and how remembering our divine lineage reframes every setback.
If you’ve ever felt the jaws of doubt closing in—this conversation will remind you that enduring doesn’t mean clinging by sheer willpower; it’s learning to reach back for the Savior who never quits on you.
*** Please SHARE Carter & Jon's stories and help us spread hope and light to others. ***
To WATCH this episode, visit: https://youtu.be/KKRk5-UW1A8
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To READ Scott’s book “Faith to Stay,” visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/
To WATCH Jon's episode, visit: https://youtu.be/KUpPMTF0Zxk
To READ Carter's viral post, visit: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRzNioKl8Uj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=a2ZzOXJ0NGI3OWtt
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Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaylights
Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alisha Coakley (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Alisha Coakley.
Scott Brandley (00:02):
And I'm Scott Brandley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth andinspire others.
Alisha Coakley (00:10):
On today's episode we're going to discuss
why having the faith to stay andkeeping an eternal perspective
will help us to endure to theend.
Welcome to Latter-day Lights.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Latter-day
(00:33):
Lights.
We are on our fifth and finalepisode for our launching of
Scott's book, the Faith to Stay.
Oh, we are so excited, guys.
We have a special treat todaywe have Carter Ellis.
Carter was actually included inScott's book towards the very
end, and so he's going to sharea little bit more about his
(00:55):
story and just kind of how thathappened.
And then, of course, we arewelcoming back my husband, Jon,
to the show to discuss a littlebit more about Scott's book, and
then, of course, just the faithto stay and all the things that
go along with it.
So we're super, super excitedto welcome you guys, and I know
Scott is in the passenger seatNormally he's here in this
(01:18):
position, but welcome everyone.
Jon Coakley (01:23):
Oh hey, it's good to be here.
Thank you Good to be here.
Thank you Good to be here.
A whole one-room way.
Alisha Coakley (01:30):
We are one-room way.
That's very true.
Scott Brandley (01:33):
This is kind of fun, though, Jon, because you
are our second guest on ourpodcast.
Alisha Coakley (01:38):
And.
Scott Brandley (01:38):
Alisha was actually the first guest, I was
yeah, it's kind of all comingback around Wow.
Alisha Coakley (01:44):
Interesting.
Yeah, yeah, kind of all comingback around so interesting, and
then we're just gonna have tohave Carter come on to be our
next guest and just share awhole long hour episode.
That's what I think We'll seeif I do good enough.
Baton over to you for a second.
Why don't you kind of get usstarted on how you'd like this
(02:09):
discussion to go today?
Scott Brandley (02:10):
Sure.
So this is going to be kind ofa unique episode, because
usually we have somebody come onand share their story Carter,
to give you some backgroundthere.
But what I was hoping we coulddo in this episode is have you
share your story but then alsotalk about having the faith to
stay, because the story you'regoing to share has that as the
(02:33):
topic.
But that happens to also be thename of my book and it was the
idea that I had behind it.
So I'm thinking that you cankind of share your story, which
is really cool.
Then we'll just talk aboutfaith in general and see where
it goes from there.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself, Carter, to
(02:58):
start off, before we jump intoyour story?
Carter Ellis (03:02):
Perfect.
My name is Carter into yourstory.
Perfect, so my name is Carter,I am 23 and I got back from my
mission serving in Antofagasta,chile, exactly two years ago
today.
I was on the drive home.
It's got a funny timing with ittoo.
Yeah, two years ago I walked inthe airport and said hello to
(03:23):
my family again, so that waskind of interesting reflecting
on my drive home from St Georgetoday, just like everything
that's happened in the last twoyears, I'm studying up at Utah
State right now.
I completed my exercise sciencedegree this year and then I
applied to medical school thisnext summer.
Big, crazy things ahead for meschool this next summer.
Scott Brandley (03:47):
So big, crazy things ahead for me.
Yeah, I can't believe it's beentwo years Cause the first time
I heard your story was you wereon your mission.
Yeah, that was like three yearsago.
Carter Ellis (03:54):
Probably time flies, doesn't it?
That's crazy.
Alisha Coakley (03:59):
That's cool.
Yeah, Tell us what.
Where do you start?
Where's your story?
Carter Ellis (04:03):
start.
Tell us what?
Where do you start?
Where's your story start?
Yeah, so it's interesting.
Lots of people don't know thispart about it, but I actually
made, like, my little post thatI made.
I was in the MTC the online MTCat the time.
So I started my mission in,let's see, july of 2021.
(04:28):
And during the time that, like Iwas in the online MTC, there
was this kind of interestinglittle like ripple effect where
I had a bunch of friends fromhigh school that started making
these Instagram posts of likewhy they were choosing to leave
the church, and so there was onethat did it, and then I was
(04:50):
like, oh wow, like I've neverreally seen this before.
And then that turned into twoand three and four and it just
kind of, you know, created thismomentum of people being like
this is my time that I canannounce my decision to leave.
And so during that time, wewere in the MTC and they were
(05:13):
talking about the power ofsharing with your testimony on
Facebook and social media,because that was starting to be
a big push in the missionarydepartment during COVID, because
everything was still kind oflike starting to wrap up with
COVID, but in a lot of areas itwas still really full force.
(05:33):
And so I remember I, as I wasin the MTC and they were talking
about this, I like had this, Ihad this prompting that I'm like
you should make a post aboutwhy you choose to stay in the
church.
And I'm like, okay, this iskind of different, you know,
(05:55):
cause I didn't, I didn't want tocome on too strong and be that
guy, you know that was trying tolike, you know, like, bash
people or anything, cause I, youknow, I still like, I still
cared about them.
You know, as like, as peoplethat I knew and were friends
with from high school.
But you know, I'm like, well,if you're, if you're choosing to
share why you're going to leavethem, why can't I choose to
share why I'm going to stay?
(06:16):
And so I had this, this thought,and I, I kind of took it and
ran with it and I, I was atdinner, um, and I I shared this,
this post that I made on onInstagram, and then I shared it
on Facebook and, um, I, that wasthat I went to dinner and I
remember I actually I said alittle prayer afterwards being
(06:37):
like, please help this to goover.
Well, you know, and I'm likedid like let this help whoever
needs to help but, at the sametime, help it to not.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to come on in thewrong way.
And so I went and ate dinnerand, um, it was like like a
couple hours later, all of asudden, my phone started blowing
up with notifications.
I'm like what the heck is goingon?
And then I looked at it and, um, lots of people started liking
(07:01):
it.
And then people started sharingit on their stories on
Instagram.
Um, and then, um, that was fromthe Instagram side, but on the
Facebook side, something alittle bit different happened.
Um, and this is where thingsreally kind of get interesting.
So on Facebook it actually I Idon't think this happened until
(07:23):
maybe like the next day, but itactually got shared in two of
these big ex-Mormon Facebookgroups.
Real reason where it started togo viral, I guess you could say
(07:49):
, is people started coming fromthose ex-Mormon Facebook groups
to go attack me in my commentsection of my Facebook post and
then like, so people reallystarted sharing it, maybe for
not the best reasons that way,but then it led to tons of
people seeing it, and so then,after it got shared there a
bunch of like returnmissionaries came and saw those
(08:10):
sections, like saw the post inmy comment section like the anti
post, and then they startedresponding to that and then it
kind of became World War III inmy comment section on Facebook
of that.
So people bashed each other ofthat.
Alisha Coakley (08:27):
So people bashed each other and you know I like.
Carter Ellis (08:30):
But like it's funny because heavenly father
literally used all things to hisgood, totally so that facebook
kind of exploded.
And then, when facebookexploded, instagram really
exploded after that too, andwhere the facebook one, there
was kind of a lot of like, maybelike pushback from the other
side on it.
The the instagram one wasoverwhelmingly positive.
(08:50):
Um, on the response for and so Ikind of looked at it as like
instagram kind of took off andthen facebook really took off
for maybe the wrong reason,which led to instagram taking
off for really the right reasonyeah so it's kind of cool the
way that that happened.
And yeah, I actually um.
I was like three, four daysinto it and then I got a call
(09:11):
from um, the director of socialmedia for the missionary
department too, and he called meand was like we just want you
to know that the church is awareof um, of your like, of your
post, and that, like, you haveour support.
That was kind of cool too, wowthat's cool, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (09:28):
So, scott, do you?
Do you want to read what hewrote, or do you want carter to
read it?
Scott Brandley (09:34):
or I mean, I have it pulled up too, if
someone else does yeah, well, Ithink it'd be good for him to
read it, because he's the onethat wrote it yeah, do you have
it?
Carter Ellis (09:42):
yeah, yeah, I can I can absolutely do that.
Let me pull it up quick.
Yeah, um, so this is what Isaid.
I said I've seen a lot of postslately from people talking
about their individual decisionsto leave the church.
I guess I feel like this is asgood a time as any to share my
decision to stay.
I'm a member, member of theChurch of Jesus Christ of
(10:04):
Latter-day Saints.
It's not a club, it's not afraternity, it's not just some
organization with crazy rulesmeant to restrict my freedom.
It's not a buffet to pick andchoose which principles you want
to believe and which ones youwant to throw in the trash.
This is a gospel.
This is a plan.
This is happiness.
This is the truth.
It's all or nothing.
(10:27):
I want to share a little bit ofmy perspective on the word
freedom.
It seems like the moment peopleleave the church, one of the
first things everyone says issomething like I've never felt
more free.
Interestingly, I can't think ofa time in my life where I felt
more free than right now,serving as a missionary for this
church, Ironically with morerules placed upon me than I have
(10:49):
ever had.
But I think I feel free forsome different reasons Free from
sin through the atonement ofJesus Christ.
Free from guilt because therules I have for my health help
me stay clean.
Free from sorrow because I knowthat I'm going to see and I
mentioned some names of myfriends from high school that
(11:09):
had passed away that year Againsomeday.
Free from confusion because ofa living prophet who gives us
direction on where we need to go.
This gospel is a gift.
Our ancestors walked thousandsof miles through icy rivers and
snowy plains, leaving footprintsof blood and many giving their
lives along the way.
Why?
(11:29):
Because they knew this gospelis true.
They wouldn't have given upwhat they did if it wasn't.
I also know that it's true thatJoseph Smith really saw what he
said.
He saw that the Book of Mormonis true, that God lives, that he
loves each and every one of us,that this path is true.
It's the only way.
It's for everyone Stay wow, sogood.
Alisha Coakley (11:55):
I really love that your story your background
story adds actually quite a bitof context to the story that I
didn't even know yeah, and Ithink, especially with social
media, like I, like I too, I hada lot of friends who, um, they,
they really did feel like ithad to be all or nothing, you
know.
So if they had any doubts orthey had any disagreements or
(12:17):
whatever else, they were justlike, well, that's it, I'm just
throwing the baby out with thebathwater and they would leave.
And then they got really um,active on social media about,
like, if they leave, they leaveloudly and they don't stop
talking, like they talk moreabout the church after they
leave than they did when theywere actually like ingrained in
it and stuff like that.
And it's like what is going onhere.
(12:39):
So I feel like, around thatsame time, it just became really
popular, right, like it becamevery trendy to be like, ooh,
we're not in the church anymoreand and and I mean it's one of
Satan's many tools right To tomake everything look greener on
the other side or whatever elseUm, and with social media,
people can be really really loud.
So I think it's cool that youwere able to you know, lovingly,
(13:02):
but also in you know a loud way, proclaim your opinion and your
faith and you didn't you didn'tlike attack anyone else for
their decision to leave.
You were just simply statingyou know why you're staying, so
yeah, I, I also.
Carter Ellis (13:22):
I I'll add a little bit of clarification on
it too.
One of the things that I'veI've gotten a lot of since then,
um, is people kind of thinkthat when I said it's all or
nothing, but I'm saying it's allor nothing as far as you have
to have a testimony of everysingle part in order to be a
member, and that is not at allwhat I meant by that.
(13:43):
The all or nothing part of mypost was 100%, that the truth of
the church is all or nothing.
That it's either 100% true asfar as the doctrine of our
church and that joseph reallydid see this, or it's 100, a lie
, and there's no, there's noroom for.
This is just a good church that,you know like, may or may not
(14:06):
be.
Some parts of it true, someparts, not.
That the part of our churchthat makes it so powerful is the
fact that our claim of thetruthfulness of the gospel and
being Jesus Christ church is sobold.
Um and but I think thatsometimes people use the term
all or nothing to be like well,yeah, like, I can be in the
(14:27):
church and still struggle with,you know like, having
temptations and I can.
I can stay in the church andstill, you know, struggle with
not understanding certain partsof it.
And, of course, you can likenone of us have a hundred
percent like knowledge ofeverything, or else there would
be no need for faith.
Right, that's what it says inthe book of Mormon.
But as far as the church beingtrue in itself, I think that is
(14:50):
the thing that people need toremember that, regardless of the
individual challenges that eachand every one of us have, the
church itself and the doctrineof it is still 100% true, if
that makes sense, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (15:05):
So, Jon, what did you think hearing?
I mean cause you hadn't had achance to read that post or
anything.
What did you think of ofCarter's post?
Jon Coakley (15:13):
Yeah, I think it's a really good way to put it out
there and just basically saylike the same, as you know, like
in the New Testament, you knowpeople wouldn't have died in you
know crazy ways for Jesus if itwasn't true.
You know, the same way that thesaints, you know, like you said
, they left the bloodyfootprints, like they had the
faith, like they knew for sure,like this is a real thing, this
(15:36):
is a real prophet that we'refollowing, and they, they gave
their blood for it and theirlives and their property.
You know they, they gaveeverything.
So, yeah, I think that was areally good way to put it.
Scott Brandley (15:54):
So the way I heard about it, it as it went
viral.
Not only did it go viral onsocial media, but I heard about
it from somebody quoting yourpost in a sacrament meeting talk
in my ward and I was I waswriting my book at the time and
(16:18):
it just rang true to me and itfits so well into my book that I
actually reached out to you andasked you if I could include
your post in my book.
And I actually included it inthe final chapter of my book
because it's such a good summaryof faith and and my book title
(16:39):
is faith to stay, and the lastthing you said in your, in your
thing, was to stay, and so itwas really cool to to be able to
hear your story and and includeit in my book.
So what's kind of what's beenthe aftermath of that post?
What has happened since then?
Carter Ellis (17:01):
Yeah, it's, it's been kind of kind of crazy, like
the like how, how far it hasstretched.
Some of I've had some super coolexperiences of people from all
around the world.
I'm reaching out to me and andsharing how, you know, it helped
them feel the spirit, um, and II love I love putting it that
(17:24):
way and the things that theyshared with me too, cause I I
don't believe that there'sanything like particularly
special about what I said, but Ithink it was really cool how,
like I guess, heavenly Fatherwas able to use the words that I
said to be able to touch peoplein different ways, and so I've
had people from all around theworld.
(17:46):
I had one person reach out to methat said that they were, you
know, a former MTC teacher andthat they had stopped going to
church and had been like sixyears and that, like, reading my
post was the first time thatthey felt the spirit since then
and that they were going to go,you know, like, go back to the
church that next week.
And so it's just super cool,like to hear the stories of
(18:08):
different people and you know,there's always a little bit of
backlash that happens, you know,from different people, but
overwhelmingly like the thingthat kept me going with all of
it and making me feel so, sohappy that I decided to to click
the post button was hearing allthose stories of people and how
(18:29):
they were able to fill thespirit with it.
Alisha Coakley (18:32):
That's cool, that's really cool.
Thank you, by the way, carter,for for sharing that backstory
and everything with us and andfor creating the post, for
following the spirit.
And you know, you, just youreally don't know how far
reaching that is.
And, in the same light, scott,you, you have no idea how far
reaching your book is going togoing to be either.
You know, like we just launchedit I say we, like I did
(18:54):
something, I was moral supportthing no, you launched it with
an opportunity for everybody toget it for free.
They can get the.
The um downloadable version forfree is audio version.
Two, I can't remember Yep Audioand downloadable version for
(19:14):
free.
And if you order the book onlineat faithstostaycom or on Amazon
, uh, the proceeds actually goto the Markovia project.
So you quite literally, aregiving everything away.
And on top of it, the artwork,like so beautiful, I just I love
your, your image on your coverof your book.
Um, you're giving that away forfree, like the downloadable
(19:38):
version of that too, so peoplecan just print it off and use it
wherever they need to orhowever they need to.
Um, so I'm really excited tokind of start seeing the, the
effects of where your book isgoing.
But let's talk about, let'stalk about that faith to say
cause that it feels like such asimple thing to say.
Because that it feels like sucha simple thing to say, right,
but what do you?
(19:59):
I guess, what would you say tosomeone who is really in the
deepest depths of they don'tknow how they're going to stay?
Jon Coakley (20:11):
Yeah, somebody who's like in the worst moments,
like down in the ditches, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (20:19):
Because it seems I mean, it seems easy to just
be like well, just stay.
And they're like, but I'mdrowning here.
You know, I'm interested tohear what y'all have to say on
that.
Scott Brandley (20:31):
I think the most important thing you can do is
just take one more step, andwithout giving up Right.
One of the stories that I sharein the book is when Joseph
Smith was in Liberty jail and Idid a lot of research into that
time when he was in that in thatprison, and the temperatures
(20:55):
during the those times werepretty much 40 or below.
For the whole time they were inthere it was it was freezing
cold every day and they were inthe basement of this prison.
it must have been a horrible,miserable experience, especially
when you consider that thesaints were.
They had just um, put in theexecution order for all the
(21:18):
saints and they didn't know whatwas happening with their
families.
Everything was just crazy andum, I remember researching that
and just putting myself in intheir position.
They're, they were in a prison,everything was falling apart
(21:40):
around them.
They didn't know what washappening to their family and
loved ones, and it could havebeen a make or break moment for
them.
And but rather than give up,you know, joseph Smith took one
more little step in the dark andhe prayed to Heavenly Father,
(22:01):
asking for help, and he got ananswer from Christ saying that
everything would be okay.
And I think that was a goodexample.
That's why I use it in the book.
But we all have those moments inour lives where we just think
it can't get any worse and it'seasy to blame God.
It's easy to.
(22:21):
Well, you're kind of goingthrough that, Alisha, right now
with your mom right, like she'snot doing good, and or with your
brother when your brotherpassed away in that car accident
.
Yeah, you could have easilyblamed God and cursed god and
and left the church and you knowlike.
But you have to take that onemore step and just not give up,
(22:46):
and you'll find that he's therein that, in that darkness,
waiting to, to light your way tothe next step yeah and that's
just how it works, unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like
that, right?
Yep, yeah, and that's just howit works.
Carter Ellis (22:59):
Unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like
that.
There's a.
I'm trying to remember wherethis is in the new Testament,
but I remember like there's thismoment where, like Christ is he
(23:21):
kind of asked his his apostles,apostles, will you now also go
away, um?
Alisha Coakley (23:25):
and then peter says um to who where would you
go?
Carter Ellis (23:27):
where would we go?
That has the words of eternallife, and I think of that.
I think I that's what reallycomes to my mind when I think of
this is there's a lot ofverbiage in the church that we
use that I think we have to becareful about when we talk about
, like, maybe, when someone thatlike we have, like Alisha, that
(23:53):
is close to us, passes away.
I think lots of times we usethis phrase of God took this
person, and people use that as away of trying to comfort
someone else.
But I also think that when wetalk like that, it can also make
people feel like God is doingthis thing to you, and so the
(24:17):
way to retaliate is to leave God, when in reality, that's not
really how it works at all.
It's life itself isn't fair andwe are put through this life to
be tempted and to be tried andto go through all these hard
things in the process of tryingto become more like the Savior
right, and so when those thingshappen and they would happen
(24:42):
whether we're in the church orwe're not in the church, because
that is the whole purpose ofthis life the ultimate source of
comfort is God.
So retaliating against God byleaving the church is leaving
the very person that is mostable to give you comfort in that
moment.
I think people look at thechurch as like this restrictive
(25:04):
wall, and I look at the churchmore as like a boat, and this
boat is led by Jesus Christ atthe steering wheel and it's on
its way to the celestial kingdomthe steering wheel and it's on
its way to the celestial kingdom.
And not everything on the boatis easy.
But choosing to leave thechurch is like jumping off the
boat, thinking you're going toget to shore more easily,
(25:26):
swimming in the ocean andstaying on the boat that's going
towards the celestial kingdom,you know.
So that's kind of how I look atit.
Alisha Coakley (25:34):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit of uh,
there's a, there's a part whereScott talks about, like
sometimes we forget that thislife is meant to be a struggle,
Like it's a test it's.
It's meant to be hard in some,in some way, shape or form, you
know, and it doesn't mean thatit's bad just because it's hard
or because there's a struggle,it just means that it's
(25:56):
something that that has tohappen, you know.
Um, Jon, what do you think?
Jon Coakley (26:01):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you know, scott,
you're talking about, you know,just having to take that one
last step and, um, you know, atone point I was having a pretty
bad day and I'd say probably oneof the worst, one of the worst
days like of my life.
(26:22):
Right, and I, you know, just afew few days later, you know,
when I could pull myselftogether, you know, I was just
sitting in the car and justtrying to talk to God and to
listen and I I felt I felt aloneand I felt like, you know, god
(26:45):
was ignoring me, but like I knowthat's, I know that's not true,
but and, uh, you know, Ifinally, you know, was able to
get out of the car and I had togo to Walmart and I had to, you
know, get some stuff and it wasreally dusty out, winds blowing,
(27:06):
bad weather, like couldn't seevery far, like a literal storm
right and, um, like I just amwalking and I kind of like I'm
just feeling so down and feelinglike God is like left me, right
, and then he's just like justletting me run through this and
(27:29):
I feel like to my back right andmy shoulder like a, like a
presence Right, and so, like youknow, I look and of course
there's there's nothing there,you know.
And um, as I'm walking, likeI'm like what is this presence
that I'm feeling?
Like right behind me, like onmy right shoulder, like, you
(27:50):
know, just just behind me, andum, you know, I realized, like
I'm like, is this the HolySpirit?
Like you know what, what isthis?
Like it doesn't feel evil,doesn't feel bad, but I realized
that like it's Christ walkingwith me, like almost like in the
(28:11):
you know, the poem, thefootprints like you know, in the
worst times I cared them, thefootprints.
Like you know, in the worsttimes I cared.
But you know, I was having evena hard time walking into the
store just to do something basicevery day.
You know that I was strugglingwith and, um, I just felt him
just walking with me and it feltlike it was just.
(28:32):
It tied me back to the gardenof Gethsemane where he was
suffering, and he was just therewith me and I felt almost like
I went through time with him.
Where he's in the garden.
He's literally walking rightbehind me as he's in the garden
and I'm going through this awful, awful time.
(28:57):
I feel like he's abandoned mebut then again, like he's right
there with me, walking, can feelhis presence, I feel him right
behind me, and so I feel that,like, just taking those next
steps, and you know, likeeventually, like you know, god
(29:18):
will come, like you know godwill come back around, christ
will come back around, and um,yeah, I honestly have to say
like it was, it was comforting,but you know, I was still in the
midst of it, I was still stillin in such a hard place and such
a hard time just trying to goto a grocery store.
(29:39):
You know, like, um, so, yeah,just taking those next steps,
like, even if it's the baby step, just getting out of the car,
just moving, um and I, I feltlike he was there, just standing
by me, just saying I'm going togo through this with you, like
(30:01):
I'm not going to go through thisfor you, but I'm going to go
through this with you.
I'm right here, right in yourright shoulder, supporting you.
Alisha Coakley (30:12):
Thanks for sharing that.
Thanks for sharing that.
I remember when I was 13,.
That was the first time that Iever read the scripture that was
(30:35):
given to Joseph Smith when, but, um, I'll just read one of the
verses it's it's verse seven,and this was the one that had
such an impact on me when I wasjust a teenager and I was going
through a lot of stuff.
I had a lot of um just familydrama and at the time I was, I
was um dealing with sexual abusethat had been happening to me
(30:55):
and, uh, there was just a lot ofa lot of darkness and heaviness
in my life.
And I had uh been challenged bya young woman leader, sister
white.
I love her, she's like myfavorite um to really to really
read the doctrine and covenantsand to like learn more about the
history of the saints in theearly church and stuff like that
(31:18):
.
And most of it was kind ofboring to me, Granted, as a
teenager I was like I didn'tunderstand everything, but I got
to this and I was so proudbecause I was already in section
122.
And, and I wasn't looking foranything in particular and I
hadn't necessarily felt anythingoverpowering through all the
other sections, but I got hereand I read this verse and it
says it's it's one 22, verseseven.
(31:40):
It says and if thou shouldspeak, cast into the pit or into
the hands of murderers and thesentence of death passed upon me
.
If thou be cast into the deep,if the billowing surge conspire
against the, if fierce windsbecome thine enemy, if the
heavens gather blackness and allthe elements combined to hedge
up the way, and, above all, ifthe very jaws of hell shall gape
(32:03):
open the mouth wide after thee,know thou, my son, that all
these things shall give theexperience and be for thy good.
And in that moment I that's howI felt I felt like the very
jaws of hell were just gapingtheir mouth open after me.
I was like what am I supposedto do with my life with all of
(32:23):
this kind of stuff?
And I felt like I had nocontrol over things.
And in the last little bit,just in our family, we've had,
aside from my mom, we've hadsome other things going on.
That definitely I think I cantalk to the, to the, to Jon too,
where both of us are feelinglike the jaws of hell are gaping
(32:46):
wide open, you know, after usagain, and it's like holy cow,
what do we do?
You know?
Like, how do we, how do we stay?
I don't want to say we're in afaith crisis, cause I we've
talked about this a lot.
It's not that our testimonieshave changed at all, it's that
our um I don't even know how toexplain it I I feel like it's
(33:08):
this extreme fatigue has fallenover us in trying to keep going,
you know.
And so there are, there are manySundays where we're like we
have to be adults and we have toset a good example for our kids
.
So we're going to church andthat is it, like we're not
getting anything out of it,because we're just so in our
(33:31):
hole at the moment you know whatI mean Like we're so in our
dark spots at the moment.
But I hold on to this scripturestill to this day, from the
time I was 13 to now that I'm 23, maybe a little older than 23.
I don't know.
Anyway, I still hold on to thisand I think it's okay.
This is going to give meexperience.
(33:53):
It's going to be for my good.
Heavenly father has promised ustime and time and time and time
again everything can be workedout for our good, so I just have
to hold onto that and for me,if I can't hold onto anything
else, I'm going to hold ontothat promise because so far he
has made everything work out tomy good the death of my brother,
me getting leukemia, beingsexually abused, losing my mom,
(34:16):
now watching my mom go throughher own battle with alcoholism
and you know just the drama thathappened in my family and stuff
like one of the things that wasa huge strain in our life and
our family's life was my oldersister.
My older sister ran away whenshe was 15, got pregnant, had,
you know, kid after kid withdifferent guys and got really
(34:37):
bad into meth and just had thislife where got pregnant, had,
you know, kid after kid withdifferent guys and got really
bad into meth and just had thislife where I mean, she literally
died a few times and had to bebrought back because of
overdosing and um, and she soproud of her.
Two weeks ago, um, she just gotrebaptized, you know, and she
(34:57):
had been excommunicated foralmost 30 years and for my dad
to be able to baptize her waslike this crazy experience,
because he had been out of thechurch for such a long time too
and had had his own strugglesFor my mom being able to be
there before she passes and towitness that.
You know, it was just like itwas just one of those things
(35:20):
where it's just one more thingthat heavenly father has said
hey, look, now she's got a story.
Now her testimony is going tobe more solid than it ever has
been, you know.
And it's crazy to me to thinkthat my sister of all people is
more spiritually in tune rightnow than anyone else in our
family.
You know what I mean.
Like she loves church and she'sdoing Relief Society and she
(35:41):
was so excited because she gotto go to Young Women's Camp as a
leader and she'd never been.
She'd never been to YoungWomen's Camp as a teenager
because she ran away so early.
And it's just crazy, you know.
And so in those moments for meand what I would tell people who
are going through it, who arein that pit of despair and that
(36:01):
mouth of hell is gaped open wideafter them, just trust that
Heavenly Father will work it toyour good, trust it and also
don't put so much pressure onyourself to be perfect through
it.
Like you can be ugly in frontof the Savior.
You know you can be sloppy.
You can be a big old hot mess.
You can do things really,really poorly.
(36:22):
Who was it that?
Um, was it an apostle or aprophet?
Said something about like ifyou can't stay on the straight
and narrow, at least cross it afew times you know conference
yeah right, Exactly so.
Scott Brandley (36:40):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think faith is a good
thing, it's what keeps us going,but our faith, it is meant to
be tested, and we don't getwitnesses without our faith.
We don't see the miracleswithout exercising our faith,
like we.
(37:01):
It's something beautiful thatwe get to keep and grow, but
it's also something that pushesus to our limits sometimes.
Yes, very much so, so that itcan increase.
And it's kind of this back andforth battle our whole lives.
I think one of the reasons whyI wrote this book is just to
(37:22):
help people get a differentperspective on it, because I
don't think that I'm going toall of a sudden somebody's going
to read the book and be like,oh, you've solved the faith
problem.
I don't think that's the thing,but I do feel like it's good to
have some differentperspectives on faith and I feel
(37:46):
like God's given me quite a fewof those unique perspectives
that I was able to put togetherin a certain way that could give
people perspective on faith.
Alisha Coakley (37:58):
Yeah, scott, will you share a little bit and
I don't want to give too manyteasers and all that kind of
stuff, but I know one of thethings that I really loved was
when you talked about yourfather-in-law.
You talked about, you know,when he was passing away and
everything like that and justsort of what, the like why is it
so important for us to endureto the end?
And you know, can you kind ofjust share a little bit about
(38:20):
that story and about, like, whyyou, you feel like it's it's so
important for each of us to justkeep, keep going?
Scott Brandley (38:29):
Yeah, he, he was an amazing guy, um, and he was
always helping people.
He, he was the salt of theearth.
Ever since I had ever met him,he was just always serving other
people and he, he would servethem physically, like he was a
builder and and a teacher, so hewas a principal of a high
school and then and um, but thenhe also, like, would renovate
(38:52):
people's homes and things.
Ever since the time I, eversince I knew him, and years
before that, he would just goand help people.
And what I realized in writingafter, like, reflecting on his
life, was he was.
He wasn't just helping people toto fix their homes or renovate
(39:15):
their homes, he was.
He was there for God.
He was.
He was there teaching peoplewhat Christlike love truly was
through his actions and just thetype of person that he was, and
he influenced so many people.
The day of his funeral, thechapel was packed and he was
(39:39):
just from a tiny little town inAlberta, Canada.
He was just from a tiny littletown in Alberta, canada, but you
, just everyone there you justknew in your heart that he had
impacted them in a way that wason a deep spiritual level, even
if he never talked to them aboutthe church.
Jon Coakley (39:56):
Yeah.
Scott Brandley (40:00):
And it was through the type of life that he
lived.
He, you know, he just he livedthat Christlike life and he just
impacted so many people's livesjust because of who he was as a
person.
And so, as we try to to live ourlives in a Christlike way, we
don't know who, who we'reimpacting.
You know, the people that wesee at work, the we know we're
(40:24):
having an impact sometimesbecause, like, they won't swear
around us and stuff.
But I think it goes way deeperthan that.
I think that's like surfacelevel.
We're having some type of animpact for a positive, you know,
for good.
But really I think at the endof life, all the time, that we
(40:44):
were a good influence aroundthose people, they could feel
our spirit, they could see usserving others.
All those things add up slowlyover time and they do impact
those around us on a deepspiritual level, even if we
never talk to them about thechurch.
And I think my father-in-lawwas somebody that showed that
(41:04):
and showed that to me, andthat's why I put it in the book,
because I wanted other peopleto recognize that, that we can
impact people in small ways justby how we live.
Alisha Coakley (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of times it's like
I kind of think of it like,like, getting in shape right,
like if you want to lose weight,you want to build muscle, you
want to get in shape right, youcan do it on your own.
I mean, it's totally possibleto be a Christ-like person and
to figure out all the things onyour own, like how to do that on
your own.
But those who go to the gym,hire a personal trainer, have a
(41:40):
group together that you know isalways going to be checking in
on them, have it, you know, havesomeone who's going to come and
pick them up every morning at5am and and then who have all of
the tools at the gym necessary.
You know what I mean.
Like it's a lot easier thantrying to lift cans of beans to
get your workout in, uh, whileyou've got kids running around
being crazy and the TV's ondistracting you and you're kind
(42:01):
of only half working out right,like that's sort of the way that
that staying in the gospel,staying centered in the gospel,
is helping us to develop thatChrist-like character in our
life.
And maybe I can't develop allthat other stuff right now, but
that's okay, cause I can developthis, and so let me keep
developing this and it.
It helps you to become thatperson, just like my brother too
(42:23):
, when he passed standing roomonly in the chapel that we had
his funeral home.
We had people who had gottenstuck outside of Elko it was a
three-hour drive through thedesert to get to their town and
we had people who were stuck inSalt Lake, who had flown in, who
wanted to go to his funeral andthey couldn't get there.
So it was like even the peoplewho were there most of them
(42:46):
didn't even live in or near Elko.
They lived in Florida andMichigan and like all over the
country, and they came to him.
He had just moved to that town afew months prior and for that
amount of impact to have beenmade, just because he was living
the gospel, he was, he was inand he wasn't perfect but he was
(43:07):
in it, he kept trying.
You know it.
Um, it really did leave alasting impact on just countless
amounts of people and and Iknow, generations to come too.
So well, let's, let's chat forjust a second here about, um,
kind of the final piece to yourbook, which is enduring to the
(43:28):
end.
How do you think enduring tothe end can really help you to
stay and stay well, if thatmakes sense that Brad Wilcox has
ever said and he's my favorite.
Carter Ellis (43:49):
He said we are not earning heaven.
We are learning heaven, and Ithink so much of what enduring
to the end is all about islearning how to not only live a
celestial life but becomfortable in, like being a
(44:15):
celestial being once we're ableto once we're able to be a
celestial being, if that makessense, like at the end of the
day, every single one of us willreturn to meet our maker right,
and this is another thing thathe says is that what's left to
be determined is how comfortablewe are in his presence and what
(44:40):
kind of body we want to havewhen we're there, and what kind
of body we want to have whenwe're there, and part of what
(45:00):
the gospel is about is learningto be the kind of, is realizing
that you know, at the end of theday, we are going to be in the
same room as the pioneers.
We're going to be in the sameroom as all the people that have
suffered so much that we readabout in church and we hear
about in our Sunday schoollessons.
And how can we expect to bethere with them and be there
(45:23):
with Jesus Christ if we haven'texperienced hard things in our
life?
Jesus Christ never became whohe was, just walking through a
cakewalk right.
He became who he was because ofwhat he suffered for us.
And so I try to keep thatperspective as I go through my
trials and I'm sure that I willhave much more in my life,
(45:44):
because my life experience tothis point is not much but I
know in my trials here and theones that I will have later,
that's the thing that kind ofkeeps me going is realizing that
he suffered and he became whohe was because he suffered.
So I can choose to keep thatperspective when I suffer that
it's not just that everything isthe worst, but that it is a, it
(46:08):
is a way that I can become morelike the savior.
Jon Coakley (46:12):
Yeah, so I think, for me, for enduring to the end,
I look at it as this is.
You know, this is a classroom,it's not a courtroom.
You know, like we're here tolearn, we're here to experience
everything.
And enduring to the end, Ithink for me is um, you know, I
(46:39):
always tell my wife and kids,like you know, um, god gave me
broad shoulders for a reason.
Like you know, I can take theweight of it.
Like you know, we're out hikingwhatever else, like I'm
literally carrying all of theirbacks.
Like you know, like god gave usall abilities and you know god
(47:00):
gave me, you know, the ability,and I mean everybody else's
ability, to endure to the endand to push through hard things.
And you know, even when, likeyou said, like when Christ was
enduring all of those things inthe end, you know, like,
physically, you know he enduredto the end and he gave up his
(47:27):
life willingly at the end, youknow, after he endured through
absolutely everything, throughmore than you know any one of us
is ever going to go through.
Um, and I think that enduring tothe end for me is being there
for my family, it's putting myshoulder to the wheel, it's
(47:47):
pushing hard, pushing through.
You know it's like the, likethe Superbowl.
You know they didn't play hardat the end there and get that
last point in there.
Like, you know, like did theyreally play their heart out.
You know, did you really doeverything you could to the end?
I think it's enduring to theend is about also sharing the
(48:11):
gospel and like enduring that tothe end, making sure that you
know, on your deathbed thatyou're, you know, still
preaching the gospel and you'restill telling people like Jesus
is real, he's here and in yourhardest times he will walk
behind you, he'll walk besideyou.
You know he went through it inGethsemane.
(48:33):
He was there, he saw you gothrough this.
You know we're all tied back tothat.
Alisha Coakley (48:41):
Yeah, Well, Scott, what do you think?
Do you have any other topicsyou'd like to bring up or
thoughts you want to share?
Scott Brandley (48:52):
I'd like to share one on enduring to the end
.
I think for me it's importantto remember who we are and
sometimes in life, when we gothrough trials, we forget,
because life gets hard and weforget that we are eternal
(49:12):
beings, that we're children of aGod.
And when we lose thatperspective, that's when we can
get lost and we have to rememberthat we are eternal beings
having a brief mortal experienceon this life.
And if we can just keep that inmind, if we can remember who we
(49:35):
truly are when times get hard,we can overcome those things.
And having that eternalperspective gives us strength
and gives us hope, gives uscourage and helps us to to take
that one more step when we, whenwe don't think we have the the
(49:55):
energy to do it.
Alisha Coakley (49:58):
So that'd be my thought I love and I think, uh,
I guess my final thought on itis just that there's it is hard,
right and during to the end,but I also think that, um, it's
not all on us, right, like wenot only have the savior, which
(50:24):
sometimes is really hard toremember or to feel or to
believe even in the moment, butthat the Lord will use so many
people in our life to help usget through to the next step.
You know, uh, he puts friendsand family and church leaders
and even strangers in our path,and I think that when we start
looking for those people I can'tremember if it was like one of
(50:44):
our last podcasts that we did orwhatever, but someone talked
about about how, um, a greatthing to do is to keep people
who are spiritually minded inyour life, you know, in, in
staying, stay and surroundyourself with people who are
staying, of all levels oftestimony.
You know, look, look for theones who have struggled to stay
(51:08):
and who are still there, lookfor the ones who left and came
back, because that's going togive you a perspective.
I think that that maybe youhaven't been able to experience
because you have stayed thewhole time, and they can kind of
share with you how it's reallynot as green as you think it's
going to be, um, and, and justbe open to that.
You know, I, I, I swear I thinkI've said this every other
(51:31):
episode but Satan strives, orSatan thrives, in secrecy.
He loves separating us rightfrom the flock.
That is how he gets his, hishooks into us is by keeping
things secret, by making us feellike we're all alone, by taking
away support, and a lot oftimes the way he takes it away
(51:52):
is by us pushing it away right,by us being like we can't, we
can't have this person in ourlife because they're too good,
or this person's going to judgeme, or that, you know, like
convincing you that you need tobe by yourself.
There really are strength innumbers, and I, I, you know.
I think that one of the bestthings that we can do in order
to endure to the end is toreally surround ourselves to to
(52:15):
have that.
I call it my Jesus posse.
Right, like Jesus had a posse,he had his disciples around him
all the time.
You know what I mean.
There's a reason for it.
We are no better than him if heneeded disciples to hang out
with him all the dang time weprobably need our own little
(52:36):
group of disciples too, so umyou know, it's funny find
friends and and if you've jumpedoff the ship, don't feel at all
like coming back to it.
Carter Ellis (52:45):
You're coming to a captain who's angry at you for
leaving.
You're coming back to a captainwho is his very first thing
he's gonna do is reach out yourhand, just like, just like on
this, this cover.
That is that is how he will bethat there is.
There is nothing.
I'm sure that he loves morethan being able to welcome
someone back who has left andthat maybe doesn't feel like
(53:08):
they deserve to be welcomed back.
I think that's probably some ofhis favorite moments.
Are those moments?
Alisha Coakley (53:14):
Yeah, I agree.
Scott Brandley (53:16):
I'm glad you brought that picture up because
that's why that picture.
I tell a story about how thatcover came to be at the very end
of the book, but I picturedthat in my head of Christ
reaching out through a storm totry to save the person that was
reading the book.
And he's doing that for all ofus, right, his hand is
(53:38):
constantly reaching out in ourstorms of life, desperately
asking him to.
You know, to take his hand.
All we have to do is reach outand he'll be there, and I think
that's really important.
Alisha Coakley (53:56):
Well, do we touch on everything, Scott?
You think we're?
Are we ready to wrap up ourfifth and final session?
Scott Brandley (54:02):
Yeah, I guess I would just say you know, this
book will give you perspective,whether you you know you haven't
been to church in years,whether you went last week,
whether you went today, it willgive you perspective on faith,
(54:24):
on faith, and it will hopefullystrengthen your testimony,
strengthen your faith in someway, and if it doesn't help you,
it can help those around you.
One of the reasons why I madeit free is because I want people
to be able to share it whenthey need to share it and not
feel like they have to go buy itto share it.
Alisha Coakley (54:45):
Right.
Scott Brandley (54:46):
And because we all know people we all probably
know a dozen people that arestruggling and if they can get a
different perspective and theycan recognize the importance of
the gospel in their life, itmight just be enough, a little
bit of a enough of a spark toget them to start coming back or
(55:08):
to, you know, to change their,their thinking or, you know,
help them overcome a strugglethat they're dealing with, Even
if it's like doctrine, if it'ssome type of a doctrine that
they can't get over, or you know, something that someone they
can't forgive, something theydid, a sin that they committed
(55:31):
and they just can't figure outhow to overcome it.
There's ways that you can dealwith those things, that you can
change your perspective, changeyour mindset and hopefully
overcome them and and strengthenyour faith.
So go get the book it's freefaith to staycom and, you know,
(56:01):
if you like it, leave a comment,let me know, and I'd love to
hear your thoughts on it.
Alisha Coakley (56:08):
Awesome.
Well, thank you, scott, forwriting this book, for putting
it together, putting togetherthe podcast for, you know,
putting together all of theseepisodes that we've had.
I just love that I can call youfriend and I think that what
you've done is amazing and I'mreally excited to to, in some
(56:30):
small way, be a part ofspreading the light, the way
that that you've been doing.
So definitely, listeners, guys,go to faith this daycom and, uh
, grab your your free downloadof the book or head over to
Amazon or sorry, yes, amazon orthe website, and you can always
order too.
Like we said, when you do orderone of the books, a hundred
(56:52):
percent of the proceeds goes tothe Markovia project with the
Hemmerts, which is just such agreat, great organization that's
doing amazing things.
Carter, Jon, thank you guys forjumping on today and for having
this discussion and making mecry.
Can't ever get through anepisode without crying, guys.
Scott Brandley (57:16):
Thanks, guys, for being on, and thanks Alisha
for joining me in this crazyride We've been doing this for
three years and thank you, Jon,for supporting her.
And thanks Carter for writingthat post, man, that was awesome
, very inspiring.
So I just really appreciate allyou guys for being here.
Alisha Coakley (57:39):
And Carter.
Yeah, you made the cut, sir, sowe'll have you on and you can
share your own story, the wholeepisode.
So think about an hour's worthof content.
Carter Ellis (57:52):
I will get on it Awesome.
Alisha Coakley (57:57):
All right, guys.
Well, that's all we have foryou today.
Make sure that you share thisepisode by doing your five
second missionary work and leaveus a comment.
Let us know if you, if you gotScott's book and you've been
reading through it, or youyou've already read through it.
Let us know your thoughts.
What's your favorite part?
We know.
Share it with others.
(58:17):
Let people know that this issomething that everyone can
benefit from.
It really really is he.
He just has this great.
It's a very simple to read andunderstand book, which is great,
like.
I feel like it's just writtenin such a way that, uh, you,
everyone's going to getsomething from it, I promise you
.
Jon Coakley (58:36):
So you should have.
You should have titled it faithfor dummies.
Scott Brandley (58:44):
That'll be my next one.
That's the sequel, exactly, ohgoodness alright.
Alisha Coakley (58:54):
Well, that's all we have for you today.
Remember, if you guys have astory that you'd like to share,
or you know someone who would bea great guest on the show, we
want to hear from you.
So go ahead and email us atlatterdaylights at gmailcom, or
head over to our website,latterdaylightscom, and you can
fill out the contact form at thebottom of the page and we will
have someone get in touch withyou so that we can get some more
(59:15):
information and get youscheduled.
But until then, we hope youguys have a wonderful week, make
sure you go get Scott's bookand share it with others, and we
will talk to you soon.
Scott Brandley (59:27):
Bye guys, bye everybody.
Jon Coakley (59:29):
Bye, bye, see ya.
Hi everyone, I'm Alisha Coakley.
Scott Brandley (00:02):
And I'm Scott Brandley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth andinspire others.
Alisha Coakley (00:10):
On today's episode we're going to discuss
why having the faith to stay andkeeping an eternal perspective
will help us to endure to theend.
Welcome to Latter-day Lights.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Latter-day
(00:33):
Lights.
We are on our fifth and finalepisode for our launching of
Scott's book, the Faith to Stay.
Oh, we are so excited, guys.
We have a special treat todaywe have Carter Ellis.
Carter was actually included inScott's book towards the very
end, and so he's going to sharea little bit more about his
(00:55):
story and just kind of how thathappened.
And then, of course, we arewelcoming back my husband, Jon,
to the show to discuss a littlebit more about Scott's book, and
then, of course, just the faithto stay and all the things that
go along with it.
So we're super, super excitedto welcome you guys, and I know
Scott is in the passenger seatNormally he's here in this
(01:18):
position, but welcome everyone.
Jon Coakley (01:23):
Oh hey, it's good to be here.
Thank you Good to be here.
Thank you Good to be here.
A whole one-room way.
Alisha Coakley (01:30):
We are one-room way.
That's very true.
Scott Brandley (01:33):
This is kind of fun, though, Jon, because you
are our second guest on ourpodcast.
Alisha Coakley (01:38):
And.
Scott Brandley (01:38):
Alisha was actually the first guest, I was
yeah, it's kind of all comingback around Wow.
Alisha Coakley (01:44):
Interesting.
Yeah, yeah, kind of all comingback around so interesting, and
then we're just gonna have tohave Carter come on to be our
next guest and just share awhole long hour episode.
That's what I think We'll seeif I do good enough.
Baton over to you for a second.
Why don't you kind of get usstarted on how you'd like this
(02:09):
discussion to go today?
Scott Brandley (02:10):
Sure.
So this is going to be kind ofa unique episode, because
usually we have somebody come onand share their story Carter,
to give you some backgroundthere.
But what I was hoping we coulddo in this episode is have you
share your story but then alsotalk about having the faith to
stay, because the story you'regoing to share has that as the
(02:33):
topic.
But that happens to also be thename of my book and it was the
idea that I had behind it.
So I'm thinking that you cankind of share your story, which
is really cool.
Then we'll just talk aboutfaith in general and see where
it goes from there.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself, Carter, to
(02:58):
start off, before we jump intoyour story?
Carter Ellis (03:02):
Perfect.
My name is Carter into yourstory.
Perfect, so my name is Carter,I am 23 and I got back from my
mission serving in Antofagasta,chile, exactly two years ago
today.
I was on the drive home.
It's got a funny timing with ittoo.
Yeah, two years ago I walked inthe airport and said hello to
(03:23):
my family again, so that waskind of interesting reflecting
on my drive home from St Georgetoday, just like everything
that's happened in the last twoyears, I'm studying up at Utah
State right now.
I completed my exercise sciencedegree this year and then I
applied to medical school thisnext summer.
Big, crazy things ahead for meschool this next summer.
Scott Brandley (03:47):
So big, crazy things ahead for me.
Yeah, I can't believe it's beentwo years Cause the first time
I heard your story was you wereon your mission.
Yeah, that was like three yearsago.
Carter Ellis (03:54):
Probably time flies, doesn't it?
That's crazy.
Alisha Coakley (03:59):
That's cool.
Yeah, Tell us what.
Where do you start?
Where's your story?
Carter Ellis (04:03):
start.
Tell us what?
Where do you start?
Where's your story start?
Yeah, so it's interesting.
Lots of people don't know thispart about it, but I actually
made, like, my little post thatI made.
I was in the MTC the online MTCat the time.
So I started my mission in,let's see, july of 2021.
(04:28):
And during the time that, like Iwas in the online MTC, there
was this kind of interestinglittle like ripple effect where
I had a bunch of friends fromhigh school that started making
these Instagram posts of likewhy they were choosing to leave
the church, and so there was onethat did it, and then I was
(04:50):
like, oh wow, like I've neverreally seen this before.
And then that turned into twoand three and four and it just
kind of, you know, created thismomentum of people being like
this is my time that I canannounce my decision to leave.
And so during that time, wewere in the MTC and they were
(05:13):
talking about the power ofsharing with your testimony on
Facebook and social media,because that was starting to be
a big push in the missionarydepartment during COVID, because
everything was still kind oflike starting to wrap up with
COVID, but in a lot of areas itwas still really full force.
(05:33):
And so I remember I, as I wasin the MTC and they were talking
about this, I like had this, Ihad this prompting that I'm like
you should make a post aboutwhy you choose to stay in the
church.
And I'm like, okay, this iskind of different, you know,
(05:55):
cause I didn't, I didn't want tocome on too strong and be that
guy, you know that was trying tolike, you know, like, bash
people or anything, cause I, youknow, I still like, I still
cared about them.
You know, as like, as peoplethat I knew and were friends
with from high school.
But you know, I'm like, well,if you're, if you're choosing to
share why you're going to leavethem, why can't I choose to
share why I'm going to stay?
(06:16):
And so I had this, this thought,and I, I kind of took it and
ran with it and I, I was atdinner, um, and I I shared this,
this post that I made on onInstagram, and then I shared it
on Facebook and, um, I, that wasthat I went to dinner and I
remember I actually I said alittle prayer afterwards being
(06:37):
like, please help this to goover.
Well, you know, and I'm likedid like let this help whoever
needs to help but, at the sametime, help it to not.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to come on in thewrong way.
And so I went and ate dinnerand, um, it was like like a
couple hours later, all of asudden, my phone started blowing
up with notifications.
I'm like what the heck is goingon?
And then I looked at it and, um, lots of people started liking
(07:01):
it.
And then people started sharingit on their stories on
Instagram.
Um, and then, um, that was fromthe Instagram side, but on the
Facebook side, something alittle bit different happened.
Um, and this is where thingsreally kind of get interesting.
So on Facebook it actually I Idon't think this happened until
(07:23):
maybe like the next day, but itactually got shared in two of
these big ex-Mormon Facebookgroups.
Real reason where it started togo viral, I guess you could say
(07:49):
, is people started coming fromthose ex-Mormon Facebook groups
to go attack me in my commentsection of my Facebook post and
then like, so people reallystarted sharing it, maybe for
not the best reasons that way,but then it led to tons of
people seeing it, and so then,after it got shared there a
bunch of like returnmissionaries came and saw those
(08:10):
sections, like saw the post inmy comment section like the anti
post, and then they startedresponding to that and then it
kind of became World War III inmy comment section on Facebook
of that.
So people bashed each other ofthat.
Alisha Coakley (08:27):
So people bashed each other and you know I like.
Carter Ellis (08:30):
But like it's funny because heavenly father
literally used all things to hisgood, totally so that facebook
kind of exploded.
And then, when facebookexploded, instagram really
exploded after that too, andwhere the facebook one, there
was kind of a lot of like, maybelike pushback from the other
side on it.
The the instagram one wasoverwhelmingly positive.
(08:50):
Um, on the response for and so Ikind of looked at it as like
instagram kind of took off andthen facebook really took off
for maybe the wrong reason,which led to instagram taking
off for really the right reasonyeah so it's kind of cool the
way that that happened.
And yeah, I actually um.
I was like three, four daysinto it and then I got a call
(09:11):
from um, the director of socialmedia for the missionary
department too, and he called meand was like we just want you
to know that the church is awareof um, of your like, of your
post, and that, like, you haveour support.
That was kind of cool too, wowthat's cool, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (09:28):
So, scott, do you?
Do you want to read what hewrote, or do you want carter to
read it?
Scott Brandley (09:34):
or I mean, I have it pulled up too, if
someone else does yeah, well, Ithink it'd be good for him to
read it, because he's the onethat wrote it yeah, do you have
it?
Carter Ellis (09:42):
yeah, yeah, I can I can absolutely do that.
Let me pull it up quick.
Yeah, um, so this is what Isaid.
I said I've seen a lot of postslately from people talking
about their individual decisionsto leave the church.
I guess I feel like this is asgood a time as any to share my
decision to stay.
I'm a member, member of theChurch of Jesus Christ of
(10:04):
Latter-day Saints.
It's not a club, it's not afraternity, it's not just some
organization with crazy rulesmeant to restrict my freedom.
It's not a buffet to pick andchoose which principles you want
to believe and which ones youwant to throw in the trash.
This is a gospel.
This is a plan.
This is happiness.
This is the truth.
It's all or nothing.
(10:27):
I want to share a little bit ofmy perspective on the word
freedom.
It seems like the moment peopleleave the church, one of the
first things everyone says issomething like I've never felt
more free.
Interestingly, I can't think ofa time in my life where I felt
more free than right now,serving as a missionary for this
church, Ironically with morerules placed upon me than I have
(10:49):
ever had.
But I think I feel free forsome different reasons Free from
sin through the atonement ofJesus Christ.
Free from guilt because therules I have for my health help
me stay clean.
Free from sorrow because I knowthat I'm going to see and I
mentioned some names of myfriends from high school that
(11:09):
had passed away that year Againsomeday.
Free from confusion because ofa living prophet who gives us
direction on where we need to go.
This gospel is a gift.
Our ancestors walked thousandsof miles through icy rivers and
snowy plains, leaving footprintsof blood and many giving their
lives along the way.
Why?
(11:29):
Because they knew this gospelis true.
They wouldn't have given upwhat they did if it wasn't.
I also know that it's true thatJoseph Smith really saw what he
said.
He saw that the Book of Mormonis true, that God lives, that he
loves each and every one of us,that this path is true.
It's the only way.
It's for everyone Stay wow, sogood.
Alisha Coakley (11:55):
I really love that your story your background
story adds actually quite a bitof context to the story that I
didn't even know yeah, and Ithink, especially with social
media, like I, like I too, I hada lot of friends who, um, they,
they really did feel like ithad to be all or nothing, you
know.
So if they had any doubts orthey had any disagreements or
(12:17):
whatever else, they were justlike, well, that's it, I'm just
throwing the baby out with thebathwater and they would leave.
And then they got really um,active on social media about,
like, if they leave, they leaveloudly and they don't stop
talking, like they talk moreabout the church after they
leave than they did when theywere actually like ingrained in
it and stuff like that.
And it's like what is going onhere.
(12:39):
So I feel like, around thatsame time, it just became really
popular, right, like it becamevery trendy to be like, ooh,
we're not in the church anymoreand and and I mean it's one of
Satan's many tools right To tomake everything look greener on
the other side or whatever elseUm, and with social media,
people can be really really loud.
So I think it's cool that youwere able to you know, lovingly,
(13:02):
but also in you know a loud way, proclaim your opinion and your
faith and you didn't you didn'tlike attack anyone else for
their decision to leave.
You were just simply statingyou know why you're staying, so
yeah, I, I also.
Carter Ellis (13:22):
I I'll add a little bit of clarification on
it too.
One of the things that I'veI've gotten a lot of since then,
um, is people kind of thinkthat when I said it's all or
nothing, but I'm saying it's allor nothing as far as you have
to have a testimony of everysingle part in order to be a
member, and that is not at allwhat I meant by that.
(13:43):
The all or nothing part of mypost was 100%, that the truth of
the church is all or nothing.
That it's either 100% true asfar as the doctrine of our
church and that joseph reallydid see this, or it's 100, a lie
, and there's no, there's noroom for.
This is just a good church that,you know like, may or may not
(14:06):
be.
Some parts of it true, someparts, not.
That the part of our churchthat makes it so powerful is the
fact that our claim of thetruthfulness of the gospel and
being Jesus Christ church is sobold.
Um and but I think thatsometimes people use the term
all or nothing to be like well,yeah, like, I can be in the
(14:27):
church and still struggle with,you know like, having
temptations and I can.
I can stay in the church andstill, you know, struggle with
not understanding certain partsof it.
And, of course, you can likenone of us have a hundred
percent like knowledge ofeverything, or else there would
be no need for faith.
Right, that's what it says inthe book of Mormon.
But as far as the church beingtrue in itself, I think that is
(14:50):
the thing that people need toremember that, regardless of the
individual challenges that eachand every one of us have, the
church itself and the doctrineof it is still 100% true, if
that makes sense, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (15:05):
So, Jon, what did you think hearing?
I mean cause you hadn't had achance to read that post or
anything.
What did you think of ofCarter's post?
Jon Coakley (15:13):
Yeah, I think it's a really good way to put it out
there and just basically saylike the same, as you know, like
in the New Testament, you knowpeople wouldn't have died in you
know crazy ways for Jesus if itwasn't true.
You know, the same way that thesaints, you know, like you said
, they left the bloodyfootprints, like they had the
faith, like they knew for sure,like this is a real thing, this
(15:36):
is a real prophet that we'refollowing, and they, they gave
their blood for it and theirlives and their property.
You know they, they gaveeverything.
So, yeah, I think that was areally good way to put it.
Scott Brandley (15:54):
So the way I heard about it, it as it went
viral.
Not only did it go viral onsocial media, but I heard about
it from somebody quoting yourpost in a sacrament meeting talk
in my ward and I was I waswriting my book at the time and
(16:18):
it just rang true to me and itfits so well into my book that I
actually reached out to you andasked you if I could include
your post in my book.
And I actually included it inthe final chapter of my book
because it's such a good summaryof faith and and my book title
(16:39):
is faith to stay, and the lastthing you said in your, in your
thing, was to stay, and so itwas really cool to to be able to
hear your story and and includeit in my book.
So what's kind of what's beenthe aftermath of that post?
What has happened since then?
Carter Ellis (17:01):
Yeah, it's, it's been kind of kind of crazy, like
the like how, how far it hasstretched.
Some of I've had some super coolexperiences of people from all
around the world.
I'm reaching out to me and andsharing how, you know, it helped
them feel the spirit, um, and II love I love putting it that
(17:24):
way and the things that theyshared with me too, cause I I
don't believe that there'sanything like particularly
special about what I said, but Ithink it was really cool how,
like I guess, heavenly Fatherwas able to use the words that I
said to be able to touch peoplein different ways, and so I've
had people from all around theworld.
(17:46):
I had one person reach out to methat said that they were, you
know, a former MTC teacher andthat they had stopped going to
church and had been like sixyears and that, like, reading my
post was the first time thatthey felt the spirit since then
and that they were going to go,you know, like, go back to the
church that next week.
And so it's just super cool,like to hear the stories of
(18:08):
different people and you know,there's always a little bit of
backlash that happens, you know,from different people, but
overwhelmingly like the thingthat kept me going with all of
it and making me feel so, sohappy that I decided to to click
the post button was hearing allthose stories of people and how
(18:29):
they were able to fill thespirit with it.
Alisha Coakley (18:32):
That's cool, that's really cool.
Thank you, by the way, carter,for for sharing that backstory
and everything with us and andfor creating the post, for
following the spirit.
And you know, you, just youreally don't know how far
reaching that is.
And, in the same light, scott,you, you have no idea how far
reaching your book is going togoing to be either.
You know, like we just launchedit I say we, like I did
(18:54):
something, I was moral supportthing no, you launched it with
an opportunity for everybody toget it for free.
They can get the.
The um downloadable version forfree is audio version.
Two, I can't remember Yep Audioand downloadable version for
(19:14):
free.
And if you order the book onlineat faithstostaycom or on Amazon
, uh, the proceeds actually goto the Markovia project.
So you quite literally, aregiving everything away.
And on top of it, the artwork,like so beautiful, I just I love
your, your image on your coverof your book.
Um, you're giving that away forfree, like the downloadable
(19:38):
version of that too, so peoplecan just print it off and use it
wherever they need to orhowever they need to.
Um, so I'm really excited tokind of start seeing the, the
effects of where your book isgoing.
But let's talk about, let'stalk about that faith to say
cause that it feels like such asimple thing to say.
Because that it feels like sucha simple thing to say, right,
but what do you?
(19:59):
I guess, what would you say tosomeone who is really in the
deepest depths of they don'tknow how they're going to stay?
Jon Coakley (20:11):
Yeah, somebody who's like in the worst moments,
like down in the ditches, yeah.
Alisha Coakley (20:19):
Because it seems I mean, it seems easy to just
be like well, just stay.
And they're like, but I'mdrowning here.
You know, I'm interested tohear what y'all have to say on
that.
Scott Brandley (20:31):
I think the most important thing you can do is
just take one more step, andwithout giving up Right.
One of the stories that I sharein the book is when Joseph
Smith was in Liberty jail and Idid a lot of research into that
time when he was in that in thatprison, and the temperatures
(20:55):
during the those times werepretty much 40 or below.
For the whole time they were inthere it was it was freezing
cold every day and they were inthe basement of this prison.
it must have been a horrible,miserable experience, especially
when you consider that thesaints were.
They had just um, put in theexecution order for all the
(21:18):
saints and they didn't know whatwas happening with their
families.
Everything was just crazy andum, I remember researching that
and just putting myself in intheir position.
They're, they were in a prison,everything was falling apart
(21:40):
around them.
They didn't know what washappening to their family and
loved ones, and it could havebeen a make or break moment for
them.
And but rather than give up,you know, joseph Smith took one
more little step in the dark andhe prayed to Heavenly Father,
(22:01):
asking for help, and he got ananswer from Christ saying that
everything would be okay.
And I think that was a goodexample.
That's why I use it in the book.
But we all have those moments inour lives where we just think
it can't get any worse and it'seasy to blame God.
It's easy to.
(22:21):
Well, you're kind of goingthrough that, Alisha, right now
with your mom right, like she'snot doing good, and or with your
brother when your brotherpassed away in that car accident
.
Yeah, you could have easilyblamed God and cursed god and
and left the church and you knowlike.
But you have to take that onemore step and just not give up,
(22:46):
and you'll find that he's therein that, in that darkness,
waiting to, to light your way tothe next step yeah and that's
just how it works, unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like
that, right?
Yep, yeah, and that's just howit works.
Carter Ellis (22:59):
Unfortunately, it'd be nice if it wasn't like
that.
There's a.
I'm trying to remember wherethis is in the new Testament,
but I remember like there's thismoment where, like Christ is he
(23:21):
kind of asked his his apostles,apostles, will you now also go
away, um?
Alisha Coakley (23:25):
and then peter says um to who where would you
go?
Carter Ellis (23:27):
where would we go?
That has the words of eternallife, and I think of that.
I think I that's what reallycomes to my mind when I think of
this is there's a lot ofverbiage in the church that we
use that I think we have to becareful about when we talk about
, like, maybe, when someone thatlike we have, like Alisha, that
(23:53):
is close to us, passes away.
I think lots of times we usethis phrase of God took this
person, and people use that as away of trying to comfort
someone else.
But I also think that when wetalk like that, it can also make
people feel like God is doingthis thing to you, and so the
(24:17):
way to retaliate is to leave God, when in reality, that's not
really how it works at all.
It's life itself isn't fair andwe are put through this life to
be tempted and to be tried andto go through all these hard
things in the process of tryingto become more like the Savior
right, and so when those thingshappen and they would happen
(24:42):
whether we're in the church orwe're not in the church, because
that is the whole purpose ofthis life the ultimate source of
comfort is God.
So retaliating against God byleaving the church is leaving
the very person that is mostable to give you comfort in that
moment.
I think people look at thechurch as like this restrictive
(25:04):
wall, and I look at the churchmore as like a boat, and this
boat is led by Jesus Christ atthe steering wheel and it's on
its way to the celestial kingdomthe steering wheel and it's on
its way to the celestial kingdom.
And not everything on the boatis easy.
But choosing to leave thechurch is like jumping off the
boat, thinking you're going toget to shore more easily,
(25:26):
swimming in the ocean andstaying on the boat that's going
towards the celestial kingdom,you know.
So that's kind of how I look atit.
Alisha Coakley (25:34):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit of uh,
there's a, there's a part whereScott talks about, like
sometimes we forget that thislife is meant to be a struggle,
Like it's a test it's.
It's meant to be hard in some,in some way, shape or form, you
know, and it doesn't mean thatit's bad just because it's hard
or because there's a struggle,it just means that it's
(25:56):
something that that has tohappen, you know.
Um, Jon, what do you think?
Jon Coakley (26:01):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you know, scott,
you're talking about, you know,just having to take that one
last step and, um, you know, atone point I was having a pretty
bad day and I'd say probably oneof the worst, one of the worst
days like of my life.
(26:22):
Right, and I, you know, just afew few days later, you know,
when I could pull myselftogether, you know, I was just
sitting in the car and justtrying to talk to God and to
listen and I I felt I felt aloneand I felt like, you know, god
(26:45):
was ignoring me, but like I knowthat's, I know that's not true,
but and, uh, you know, Ifinally, you know, was able to
get out of the car and I had togo to Walmart and I had to, you
know, get some stuff and it wasreally dusty out, winds blowing,
(27:06):
bad weather, like couldn't seevery far, like a literal storm
right and, um, like I just amwalking and I kind of like I'm
just feeling so down and feelinglike God is like left me, right
, and then he's just like justletting me run through this and
(27:29):
I feel like to my back right andmy shoulder like a, like a
presence Right, and so, like youknow, I look and of course
there's there's nothing there,you know.
And um, as I'm walking, likeI'm like what is this presence
that I'm feeling?
Like right behind me, like onmy right shoulder, like, you
(27:50):
know, just just behind me, andum, you know, I realized, like
I'm like, is this the HolySpirit?
Like you know what, what isthis?
Like it doesn't feel evil,doesn't feel bad, but I realized
that like it's Christ walkingwith me, like almost like in the
(28:11):
you know, the poem, thefootprints like you know, in the
worst times I cared them, thefootprints.
Like you know, in the worsttimes I cared.
But you know, I was having evena hard time walking into the
store just to do something basicevery day.
You know that I was strugglingwith and, um, I just felt him
just walking with me and it feltlike it was just.
(28:32):
It tied me back to the gardenof Gethsemane where he was
suffering, and he was just therewith me and I felt almost like
I went through time with him.
Where he's in the garden.
He's literally walking rightbehind me as he's in the garden
and I'm going through this awful, awful time.
(28:57):
I feel like he's abandoned mebut then again, like he's right
there with me, walking, can feelhis presence, I feel him right
behind me, and so I feel that,like, just taking those next
steps, and you know, likeeventually, like you know, god
(29:18):
will come, like you know godwill come back around, christ
will come back around, and um,yeah, I honestly have to say
like it was, it was comforting,but you know, I was still in the
midst of it, I was still stillin in such a hard place and such
a hard time just trying to goto a grocery store.
(29:39):
You know, like, um, so, yeah,just taking those next steps,
like, even if it's the baby step, just getting out of the car,
just moving, um and I, I feltlike he was there, just standing
by me, just saying I'm going togo through this with you, like
(30:01):
I'm not going to go through thisfor you, but I'm going to go
through this with you.
I'm right here, right in yourright shoulder, supporting you.
Alisha Coakley (30:12):
Thanks for sharing that.
Thanks for sharing that.
I remember when I was 13,.
That was the first time that Iever read the scripture that was
(30:35):
given to Joseph Smith when, but, um, I'll just read one of the
verses it's it's verse seven,and this was the one that had
such an impact on me when I wasjust a teenager and I was going
through a lot of stuff.
I had a lot of um just familydrama and at the time I was, I
was um dealing with sexual abusethat had been happening to me
(30:55):
and, uh, there was just a lot ofa lot of darkness and heaviness
in my life.
And I had uh been challenged bya young woman leader, sister
white.
I love her, she's like myfavorite um to really to really
read the doctrine and covenantsand to like learn more about the
history of the saints in theearly church and stuff like that
(31:18):
.
And most of it was kind ofboring to me, Granted, as a
teenager I was like I didn'tunderstand everything, but I got
to this and I was so proudbecause I was already in section
122.
And, and I wasn't looking foranything in particular and I
hadn't necessarily felt anythingoverpowering through all the
other sections, but I got hereand I read this verse and it
says it's it's one 22, verseseven.
(31:40):
It says and if thou shouldspeak, cast into the pit or into
the hands of murderers and thesentence of death passed upon me
.
If thou be cast into the deep,if the billowing surge conspire
against the, if fierce windsbecome thine enemy, if the
heavens gather blackness and allthe elements combined to hedge
up the way, and, above all, ifthe very jaws of hell shall gape
(32:03):
open the mouth wide after thee,know thou, my son, that all
these things shall give theexperience and be for thy good.
And in that moment I that's howI felt I felt like the very
jaws of hell were just gapingtheir mouth open after me.
I was like what am I supposedto do with my life with all of
(32:23):
this kind of stuff?
And I felt like I had nocontrol over things.
And in the last little bit,just in our family, we've had,
aside from my mom, we've hadsome other things going on.
That definitely I think I cantalk to the, to the, to Jon too,
where both of us are feelinglike the jaws of hell are gaping
(32:46):
wide open, you know, after usagain, and it's like holy cow,
what do we do?
You know?
Like, how do we, how do we stay?
I don't want to say we're in afaith crisis, cause I we've
talked about this a lot.
It's not that our testimonieshave changed at all, it's that
our um I don't even know how toexplain it I I feel like it's
(33:08):
this extreme fatigue has fallenover us in trying to keep going,
you know.
And so there are, there are manySundays where we're like we
have to be adults and we have toset a good example for our kids
.
So we're going to church andthat is it, like we're not
getting anything out of it,because we're just so in our
(33:31):
hole at the moment you know whatI mean Like we're so in our
dark spots at the moment.
But I hold on to this scripturestill to this day, from the
time I was 13 to now that I'm 23, maybe a little older than 23.
I don't know.
Anyway, I still hold on to thisand I think it's okay.
This is going to give meexperience.
(33:53):
It's going to be for my good.
Heavenly father has promised ustime and time and time and time
again everything can be workedout for our good, so I just have
to hold onto that and for me,if I can't hold onto anything
else, I'm going to hold ontothat promise because so far he
has made everything work out tomy good the death of my brother,
me getting leukemia, beingsexually abused, losing my mom,
(34:16):
now watching my mom go throughher own battle with alcoholism
and you know just the drama thathappened in my family and stuff
like one of the things that wasa huge strain in our life and
our family's life was my oldersister.
My older sister ran away whenshe was 15, got pregnant, had,
you know, kid after kid withdifferent guys and got really
(34:37):
bad into meth and just had thislife where got pregnant, had,
you know, kid after kid withdifferent guys and got really
bad into meth and just had thislife where I mean, she literally
died a few times and had to bebrought back because of
overdosing and um, and she soproud of her.
Two weeks ago, um, she just gotrebaptized, you know, and she
(34:57):
had been excommunicated foralmost 30 years and for my dad
to be able to baptize her waslike this crazy experience,
because he had been out of thechurch for such a long time too
and had had his own strugglesFor my mom being able to be
there before she passes and towitness that.
You know, it was just like itwas just one of those things
(35:20):
where it's just one more thingthat heavenly father has said
hey, look, now she's got a story.
Now her testimony is going tobe more solid than it ever has
been, you know.
And it's crazy to me to thinkthat my sister of all people is
more spiritually in tune rightnow than anyone else in our
family.
You know what I mean.
Like she loves church and she'sdoing Relief Society and she
(35:41):
was so excited because she gotto go to Young Women's Camp as a
leader and she'd never been.
She'd never been to YoungWomen's Camp as a teenager
because she ran away so early.
And it's just crazy, you know.
And so in those moments for meand what I would tell people who
are going through it, who arein that pit of despair and that
(36:01):
mouth of hell is gaped open wideafter them, just trust that
Heavenly Father will work it toyour good, trust it and also
don't put so much pressure onyourself to be perfect through
it.
Like you can be ugly in frontof the Savior.
You know you can be sloppy.
You can be a big old hot mess.
You can do things really,really poorly.
(36:22):
Who was it that?
Um, was it an apostle or aprophet?
Said something about like ifyou can't stay on the straight
and narrow, at least cross it afew times you know conference
yeah right, Exactly so.
Scott Brandley (36:40):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think faith is a good
thing, it's what keeps us going,but our faith, it is meant to
be tested, and we don't getwitnesses without our faith.
We don't see the miracleswithout exercising our faith,
like we.
(37:01):
It's something beautiful thatwe get to keep and grow, but
it's also something that pushesus to our limits sometimes.
Yes, very much so, so that itcan increase.
And it's kind of this back andforth battle our whole lives.
I think one of the reasons whyI wrote this book is just to
(37:22):
help people get a differentperspective on it, because I
don't think that I'm going toall of a sudden somebody's going
to read the book and be like,oh, you've solved the faith
problem.
I don't think that's the thing,but I do feel like it's good to
have some differentperspectives on faith and I feel
(37:46):
like God's given me quite a fewof those unique perspectives
that I was able to put togetherin a certain way that could give
people perspective on faith.
Alisha Coakley (37:58):
Yeah, scott, will you share a little bit and
I don't want to give too manyteasers and all that kind of
stuff, but I know one of thethings that I really loved was
when you talked about yourfather-in-law.
You talked about, you know,when he was passing away and
everything like that and justsort of what, the like why is it
so important for us to endureto the end?
And you know, can you kind ofjust share a little bit about
(38:20):
that story and about, like, whyyou, you feel like it's it's so
important for each of us to justkeep, keep going?
Scott Brandley (38:29):
Yeah, he, he was an amazing guy, um, and he was
always helping people.
He, he was the salt of theearth.
Ever since I had ever met him,he was just always serving other
people and he, he would servethem physically, like he was a
builder and and a teacher, so hewas a principal of a high
school and then and um, but thenhe also, like, would renovate
(38:52):
people's homes and things.
Ever since the time I, eversince I knew him, and years
before that, he would just goand help people.
And what I realized in writingafter, like, reflecting on his
life, was he was.
He wasn't just helping people toto fix their homes or renovate
(39:15):
their homes, he was.
He was there for God.
He was.
He was there teaching peoplewhat Christlike love truly was
through his actions and just thetype of person that he was, and
he influenced so many people.
The day of his funeral, thechapel was packed and he was
(39:39):
just from a tiny little town inAlberta, Canada.
He was just from a tiny littletown in Alberta, canada, but you
, just everyone there you justknew in your heart that he had
impacted them in a way that wason a deep spiritual level, even
if he never talked to them aboutthe church.
Jon Coakley (39:56):
Yeah.
Scott Brandley (40:00):
And it was through the type of life that he
lived.
He, you know, he just he livedthat Christlike life and he just
impacted so many people's livesjust because of who he was as a
person.
And so, as we try to to live ourlives in a Christlike way, we
don't know who, who we'reimpacting.
You know, the people that wesee at work, the we know we're
(40:24):
having an impact sometimesbecause, like, they won't swear
around us and stuff.
But I think it goes way deeperthan that.
I think that's like surfacelevel.
We're having some type of animpact for a positive, you know,
for good.
But really I think at the endof life, all the time, that we
(40:44):
were a good influence aroundthose people, they could feel
our spirit, they could see usserving others.
All those things add up slowlyover time and they do impact
those around us on a deepspiritual level, even if we
never talk to them about thechurch.
And I think my father-in-lawwas somebody that showed that
(41:04):
and showed that to me, andthat's why I put it in the book,
because I wanted other peopleto recognize that, that we can
impact people in small ways justby how we live.
Alisha Coakley (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of times it's like
I kind of think of it like,like, getting in shape right,
like if you want to lose weight,you want to build muscle, you
want to get in shape right, youcan do it on your own.
I mean, it's totally possibleto be a Christ-like person and
to figure out all the things onyour own, like how to do that on
your own.
But those who go to the gym,hire a personal trainer, have a
(41:40):
group together that you know isalways going to be checking in
on them, have it, you know, havesomeone who's going to come and
pick them up every morning at5am and and then who have all of
the tools at the gym necessary.
You know what I mean.
Like it's a lot easier thantrying to lift cans of beans to
get your workout in, uh, whileyou've got kids running around
being crazy and the TV's ondistracting you and you're kind
(42:01):
of only half working out right,like that's sort of the way that
that staying in the gospel,staying centered in the gospel,
is helping us to develop thatChrist-like character in our
life.
And maybe I can't develop allthat other stuff right now, but
that's okay, cause I can developthis, and so let me keep
developing this and it.
It helps you to become thatperson, just like my brother too
(42:23):
, when he passed standing roomonly in the chapel that we had
his funeral home.
We had people who had gottenstuck outside of Elko it was a
three-hour drive through thedesert to get to their town and
we had people who were stuck inSalt Lake, who had flown in, who
wanted to go to his funeral andthey couldn't get there.
So it was like even the peoplewho were there most of them
(42:46):
didn't even live in or near Elko.
They lived in Florida andMichigan and like all over the
country, and they came to him.
He had just moved to that town afew months prior and for that
amount of impact to have beenmade, just because he was living
the gospel, he was, he was inand he wasn't perfect but he was
(43:07):
in it, he kept trying.
You know it.
Um, it really did leave alasting impact on just countless
amounts of people and and Iknow, generations to come too.
So well, let's, let's chat forjust a second here about, um,
kind of the final piece to yourbook, which is enduring to the
(43:28):
end.
How do you think enduring tothe end can really help you to
stay and stay well, if thatmakes sense that Brad Wilcox has
ever said and he's my favorite.
Carter Ellis (43:49):
He said we are not earning heaven.
We are learning heaven, and Ithink so much of what enduring
to the end is all about islearning how to not only live a
celestial life but becomfortable in, like being a
(44:15):
celestial being once we're ableto once we're able to be a
celestial being, if that makessense, like at the end of the
day, every single one of us willreturn to meet our maker right,
and this is another thing thathe says is that what's left to
be determined is how comfortablewe are in his presence and what
(44:40):
kind of body we want to havewhen we're there, and what kind
of body we want to have whenwe're there, and part of what
(45:00):
the gospel is about is learningto be the kind of, is realizing
that you know, at the end of theday, we are going to be in the
same room as the pioneers.
We're going to be in the sameroom as all the people that have
suffered so much that we readabout in church and we hear
about in our Sunday schoollessons.
And how can we expect to bethere with them and be there
(45:23):
with Jesus Christ if we haven'texperienced hard things in our
life?
Jesus Christ never became whohe was, just walking through a
cakewalk right.
He became who he was because ofwhat he suffered for us.
And so I try to keep thatperspective as I go through my
trials and I'm sure that I willhave much more in my life,
(45:44):
because my life experience tothis point is not much but I
know in my trials here and theones that I will have later,
that's the thing that kind ofkeeps me going is realizing that
he suffered and he became whohe was because he suffered.
So I can choose to keep thatperspective when I suffer that
it's not just that everything isthe worst, but that it is a, it
(46:08):
is a way that I can become morelike the savior.
Jon Coakley (46:12):
Yeah, so I think, for me, for enduring to the end,
I look at it as this is.
You know, this is a classroom,it's not a courtroom.
You know, like we're here tolearn, we're here to experience
everything.
And enduring to the end, Ithink for me is um, you know, I
(46:39):
always tell my wife and kids,like you know, um, god gave me
broad shoulders for a reason.
Like you know, I can take theweight of it.
Like you know, we're out hikingwhatever else, like I'm
literally carrying all of theirbacks.
Like you know, like god gave usall abilities and you know god
(47:00):
gave me, you know, the ability,and I mean everybody else's
ability, to endure to the endand to push through hard things.
And you know, even when, likeyou said, like when Christ was
enduring all of those things inthe end, you know, like,
physically, you know he enduredto the end and he gave up his
(47:27):
life willingly at the end, youknow, after he endured through
absolutely everything, throughmore than you know any one of us
is ever going to go through.
Um, and I think that enduring tothe end for me is being there
for my family, it's putting myshoulder to the wheel, it's
(47:47):
pushing hard, pushing through.
You know it's like the, likethe Superbowl.
You know they didn't play hardat the end there and get that
last point in there.
Like, you know, like did theyreally play their heart out.
You know, did you really doeverything you could to the end?
I think it's enduring to theend is about also sharing the
(48:11):
gospel and like enduring that tothe end, making sure that you
know, on your deathbed thatyou're, you know, still
preaching the gospel and you'restill telling people like Jesus
is real, he's here and in yourhardest times he will walk
behind you, he'll walk besideyou.
You know he went through it inGethsemane.
(48:33):
He was there, he saw you gothrough this.
You know we're all tied back tothat.
Alisha Coakley (48:41):
Yeah, Well, Scott, what do you think?
Do you have any other topicsyou'd like to bring up or
thoughts you want to share?
Scott Brandley (48:52):
I'd like to share one on enduring to the end
.
I think for me it's importantto remember who we are and
sometimes in life, when we gothrough trials, we forget,
because life gets hard and weforget that we are eternal
(49:12):
beings, that we're children of aGod.
And when we lose thatperspective, that's when we can
get lost and we have to rememberthat we are eternal beings
having a brief mortal experienceon this life.
And if we can just keep that inmind, if we can remember who we
(49:35):
truly are when times get hard,we can overcome those things.
And having that eternalperspective gives us strength
and gives us hope, gives uscourage and helps us to to take
that one more step when we, whenwe don't think we have the the
(49:55):
energy to do it.
Alisha Coakley (49:58):
So that'd be my thought I love and I think, uh,
I guess my final thought on itis just that there's it is hard,
right and during to the end,but I also think that, um, it's
not all on us, right, like wenot only have the savior, which
(50:24):
sometimes is really hard toremember or to feel or to
believe even in the moment, butthat the Lord will use so many
people in our life to help usget through to the next step.
You know, uh, he puts friendsand family and church leaders
and even strangers in our path,and I think that when we start
looking for those people I can'tremember if it was like one of
(50:44):
our last podcasts that we did orwhatever, but someone talked
about about how, um, a greatthing to do is to keep people
who are spiritually minded inyour life, you know, in, in
staying, stay and surroundyourself with people who are
staying, of all levels oftestimony.
You know, look, look for theones who have struggled to stay
(51:08):
and who are still there, lookfor the ones who left and came
back, because that's going togive you a perspective.
I think that that maybe youhaven't been able to experience
because you have stayed thewhole time, and they can kind of
share with you how it's reallynot as green as you think it's
going to be, um, and, and justbe open to that.
You know, I, I, I swear I thinkI've said this every other
(51:31):
episode but Satan strives, orSatan thrives, in secrecy.
He loves separating us rightfrom the flock.
That is how he gets his, hishooks into us is by keeping
things secret, by making us feellike we're all alone, by taking
away support, and a lot oftimes the way he takes it away
(51:52):
is by us pushing it away right,by us being like we can't, we
can't have this person in ourlife because they're too good,
or this person's going to judgeme, or that, you know, like
convincing you that you need tobe by yourself.
There really are strength innumbers, and I, I, you know.
I think that one of the bestthings that we can do in order
to endure to the end is toreally surround ourselves to to
(52:15):
have that.
I call it my Jesus posse.
Right, like Jesus had a posse,he had his disciples around him
all the time.
You know what I mean.
There's a reason for it.
We are no better than him if heneeded disciples to hang out
with him all the dang time weprobably need our own little
(52:36):
group of disciples too, so umyou know, it's funny find
friends and and if you've jumpedoff the ship, don't feel at all
like coming back to it.
Carter Ellis (52:45):
You're coming to a captain who's angry at you for
leaving.
You're coming back to a captainwho is his very first thing
he's gonna do is reach out yourhand, just like, just like on
this, this cover.
That is that is how he will bethat there is.
There is nothing.
I'm sure that he loves morethan being able to welcome
someone back who has left andthat maybe doesn't feel like
(53:08):
they deserve to be welcomed back.
I think that's probably some ofhis favorite moments.
Are those moments?
Alisha Coakley (53:14):
Yeah, I agree.
Scott Brandley (53:16):
I'm glad you brought that picture up because
that's why that picture.
I tell a story about how thatcover came to be at the very end
of the book, but I picturedthat in my head of Christ
reaching out through a storm totry to save the person that was
reading the book.
And he's doing that for all ofus, right, his hand is
(53:38):
constantly reaching out in ourstorms of life, desperately
asking him to.
You know, to take his hand.
All we have to do is reach outand he'll be there, and I think
that's really important.
Alisha Coakley (53:56):
Well, do we touch on everything, Scott?
You think we're?
Are we ready to wrap up ourfifth and final session?
Scott Brandley (54:02):
Yeah, I guess I would just say you know, this
book will give you perspective,whether you you know you haven't
been to church in years,whether you went last week,
whether you went today, it willgive you perspective on faith,
(54:24):
on faith, and it will hopefullystrengthen your testimony,
strengthen your faith in someway, and if it doesn't help you,
it can help those around you.
One of the reasons why I madeit free is because I want people
to be able to share it whenthey need to share it and not
feel like they have to go buy itto share it.
Alisha Coakley (54:45):
Right.
Scott Brandley (54:46):
And because we all know people we all probably
know a dozen people that arestruggling and if they can get a
different perspective and theycan recognize the importance of
the gospel in their life, itmight just be enough, a little
bit of a enough of a spark toget them to start coming back or
(55:08):
to, you know, to change their,their thinking or, you know,
help them overcome a strugglethat they're dealing with, Even
if it's like doctrine, if it'ssome type of a doctrine that
they can't get over, or you know, something that someone they
can't forgive, something theydid, a sin that they committed
(55:31):
and they just can't figure outhow to overcome it.
There's ways that you can dealwith those things, that you can
change your perspective, changeyour mindset and hopefully
overcome them and and strengthenyour faith.
So go get the book it's freefaith to staycom and, you know,
(56:01):
if you like it, leave a comment,let me know, and I'd love to
hear your thoughts on it.
Alisha Coakley (56:08):
Awesome.
Well, thank you, scott, forwriting this book, for putting
it together, putting togetherthe podcast for, you know,
putting together all of theseepisodes that we've had.
I just love that I can call youfriend and I think that what
you've done is amazing and I'mreally excited to to, in some
(56:30):
small way, be a part ofspreading the light, the way
that that you've been doing.
So definitely, listeners, guys,go to faith this daycom and, uh
, grab your your free downloadof the book or head over to
Amazon or sorry, yes, amazon orthe website, and you can always
order too.
Like we said, when you do orderone of the books, a hundred
(56:52):
percent of the proceeds goes tothe Markovia project with the
Hemmerts, which is just such agreat, great organization that's
doing amazing things.
Carter, Jon, thank you guys forjumping on today and for having
this discussion and making mecry.
Can't ever get through anepisode without crying, guys.
Scott Brandley (57:16):
Thanks, guys, for being on, and thanks Alisha
for joining me in this crazyride We've been doing this for
three years and thank you, Jon,for supporting her.
And thanks Carter for writingthat post, man, that was awesome
, very inspiring.
So I just really appreciate allyou guys for being here.
Alisha Coakley (57:39):
And Carter.
Yeah, you made the cut, sir, sowe'll have you on and you can
share your own story, the wholeepisode.
So think about an hour's worthof content.
Carter Ellis (57:52):
I will get on it Awesome.
Alisha Coakley (57:57):
All right, guys.
Well, that's all we have foryou today.
Make sure that you share thisepisode by doing your five
second missionary work and leaveus a comment.
Let us know if you, if you gotScott's book and you've been
reading through it, or youyou've already read through it.
Let us know your thoughts.
What's your favorite part?
We know.
Share it with others.
(58:17):
Let people know that this issomething that everyone can
benefit from.
It really really is he.
He just has this great.
It's a very simple to read andunderstand book, which is great,
like.
I feel like it's just writtenin such a way that, uh, you,
everyone's going to getsomething from it, I promise you
.
Jon Coakley (58:36):
So you should have.
You should have titled it faithfor dummies.
Scott Brandley (58:44):
That'll be my next one.
That's the sequel, exactly, ohgoodness alright.
Alisha Coakley (58:54):
Well, that's all we have for you today.
Remember, if you guys have astory that you'd like to share,
or you know someone who would bea great guest on the show, we
want to hear from you.
So go ahead and email us atlatterdaylights at gmailcom, or
head over to our website,latterdaylightscom, and you can
fill out the contact form at thebottom of the page and we will
have someone get in touch withyou so that we can get some more
(59:15):
information and get youscheduled.
But until then, we hope youguys have a wonderful week, make
sure you go get Scott's bookand share it with others, and we
will talk to you soon.
Scott Brandley (59:27):
Bye guys, bye everybody.
Jon Coakley (59:29):
Bye, bye, see ya.
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