Walking the Via Dolorosa & Learning The Language of Heaven: Trina Boice's Story - Latter-Day Lights - LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Episode Transcript
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Scott Brandley (00:00):
Hey there, as a Latter Day Lights listener, I
want to give you a very specialgift today.
My brand new book, Faith toStay.
This book is filled withinspiring stories, powerful
discoveries, and even freshinsights to help strengthen your
faith during the storms oflife.
So if you're looking to beinspired, uplifted, and

(00:21):
spiritually recharged, justvisit faithtoy.com.
Now, let's get back to theshow.
Hey everyone, I'm ScottBrandley.

Emily Hemmert (00:32):
And I'm Emily Hemmert.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth,and inspire others.

On today's episode, we're going to learn
some valuable insights intoChrist's last day, along with
some important Hebrew words thathelp us to unlock incredible
insights into the Bible,especially as we prepare for the
2026 Come Follow Me StudyProgram.
Welcome to Latter Day Lights.
Awesome.

(01:29):
Welcome to the show.

Trina Boice (01:31):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
And before I even say anythingelse, Scott, first of all, I
want to say how cool it is thatyou share your book, Faith to
Stay, for free with everybody.
And I love, I feel so honored.
I love that Emily is herebecause she's the one that works

(01:52):
on the Markovia project that Iwas reading about on your
website and how all of it goestogether.
And it I'm so impressed, and Ifeel very honored to be with
both of you.
You are Saints in Action, whichis what the gospel of Jesus
Christ is all about.
We can, you know, sit and studythe scriptures, but that's not

(02:12):
the point.
It's to drive us to action tobless mankind, and you're doing
that.
So I'm so honored to be in yourpresence today, truly.
Thank you.
Thank you.

Yeah.
Well, that's awesome becauseyou're right.
Like I well, thanks first ofall, personally.
Thank you, Emily, for um beingmy co-host today, which is this
is unique, Trina, because umusually Alicia's my co-host, but
today you you get the treat ofhaving Emily.

I know.

So yeah.
Um, so but as and back at youtoo.
I mean, you're a saint inaction too, as we're gonna find
out here real fast.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?

Well, so I'm Trina.
Uh, and uh, let's see, whatshould I tell you about me?
Uh, I am a universityprofessor.
I've been teaching online forBYU Idaho for about 15 years
now, and I teach for anothercollege in Tennessee.
And I'm a film critic, I'mobsessed with movies, and I

(03:19):
often randomly refer to movielines and quotes and things like
that in every conversation.
So I'm just giving you aforewarning there.
Uh, I also have a daily podcastcalled Daily Inspirational
Quote with Trina Boyce.
And but it's super short.
It's I don't have guests, Ijust, you know, share a quote

(03:41):
and a little bit about theperson who wrote it and then how
to incorporate it into yourdaily actions because again, I'm
all about actions.
Um and I have four sons, and mybiggest claim to fame, I think,
is my oldest son and I wrote abook.
I've written 36 books, and soone of them, a number of years

(04:05):
ago, was one that I wrote withmy oldest son.
My goal is to write a book witheach of my four sons, and so he
was the first.
And I'm currently writinganother book with my third, no,
what am I saying?
My fourth son.
But anyway, back to the firstson.
He was dating and he's veryshy, and he's such an amazing

(04:25):
guy.
I know, like no other motherhas ever said that before,
right?
But he's such a great guy.
Anyway, once he wrote the book,it did really well, it was a
lot of fun.
Then uh he and my brother, whois not a member of the church,
were hiking in Guatemala, and myson had just graduated from
BYU.
And so my brother said, Hey, sohow's the dating scene going?

(04:48):
I'm giving you way more storythan you probably need to know,
but um, I think it's prettycute.
So my brother's like, well, youknow, have you my brother, by
the way, is an attorney forFacebook.
So he's like, So, you know, doyou use Tinder?
And he knows my brother knows alot about the church, but my
son was like, Yeah, no, that'skind of not my vibe, you know.
Then to this day, neither oneof them really remembers which

(05:12):
one of them said, What if Tindergot baptized?
What would that look like?
And so Mutual was born.
Mutual is the popular LDSdating app.
And so our little book justblossomed into this really
fantastic dating app.

(05:32):
And I always feel like despitemy efforts to really do amazing
things, there's nothing I couldever do that would beat my son's
efforts of bringing familiestogether for eternity.
I'm so proud of him, and hedoes even more amazing things.

I have a life goal to matchmake, and I've
never done it in I'm really badat it, but it is a life goal
that I have.
I'm like, if I could be thereason that two people got
together, like how cool wouldthat be?

But yeah.
Matchmaking is hard.
It is, it is anyway.
So, I mean, all of my sons areawesome, but I just love to uh
brag about him because he'sawesome, and I spent the day
with him today.

So anyway, he's so your son started mutual?

Yeah, so the two of them, my brother was the angel
investor, and uh yeah, so thetwo of them were trying to think
up names, and of course, mybrother didn't know the name
mutual and what that reallymeans in a latter-day Saint
community, you know, back whenwe used to call the weekly
activity nights mutual.
But I love double entendres asa writer, I love language, and

(06:44):
so of course, mutual is, youknow, when you find that you are
mutually attracted to eachother, you date.
Uh, and then hopefully youmarry and all of that.
Anyway, um, let's see, whatelse can I tell you?
I'm an identical twin, and Ilove to travel, and uh, I don't
know, that's probably enough.

My daughter got married from mutual.

So yay! We love those stories about people, and
in fact, on the app, they sharepictures almost every day of
couples that have gottentogether on mutual.
And anyway, that's what it'sall about.
It's so awesome.
What were you gonna say, Emily?
I wanted to know if your songot married.

(07:27):
No, yes, he did get married,but he says the biggest regret
of his life is that he didn'tfind his wife on mutual.
What happened is he, after hegraduated from BYU, we said, All
right, what are you gonna donow?
And he's like, I'm going toArizona.
And we're like, Okay, but whyArizona?
There's we have no family, youdon't have a job there.

(07:48):
Like, what's the deal?
And he's like, that's where Ifelt prompted to go.
And this guy is, he's likeCaptain Moroni.
He actually is in the militaryas well.
He literally is Captain Moroni.
So we're like, okay, so Arizonais where he found his wife, and
where he also found the thetechie guy who built the app,
you know, who did all of thecoding and all of that kind of

(08:09):
stuff.

Yeah, that's awesome.
That's funny.
So this goes back, but I I wasplaying around in the singles
market back.
I I bought the domain nameldsinglesonline.com back in the
day, and then LDS Singles tookoff.
So I sold that domain name toLDS Singles.com.

(08:31):
Oh, I was gonna build, I wasgonna build uh LDS Singles app.

You were well, what's even funnier is years
ago, let me think if I even hadkids back then.
Maybe, maybe, maybe my oldestson was a baby or something, and
I just thought this was beforeapps, this is how long ago it
was.
And so I was like, we need awebsite where we can put singles
together, and I was gonna callit latter dates, which is a

(09:00):
really stupid name.
Anyway, and so I talked to areally good friend of mine who
was an attorney.
I'm like, what do you think ofthis idea?
And he was LDS, and he's like,Oh, I don't know, that sounds
like very problematic.
I I don't I don't think youshould do that, and I was like,
but it's such a good idea,except for the name, anyway, and
so I didn't do it, so it makesme even happier that it was my

(09:22):
son that did it anyway, and hishe's done a way better job than
I would have ever done.

Yeah, that's a cool story.
Small world.
Yeah, but well, this has beensuper fun, and we haven't even
got started in the in the actualstory yet.

So, can I ask what where your doctor
credentials come from?

Oh, sure.
Well, so I got a couple ofbachelor's degrees from BYU in
Provo, and then I got a coupleof master's degrees, and they're
all in totally differentfields.
My doctorate degree is inmanagement and leadership with a
concentration in highereducation.
Okay, so I'm a lifelonglearner.

(10:04):
I would gladly go to school ifsomebody paid me to do it for
the rest of my life.
I love learning and I loveteaching.
The minute I learn something,my first desire is to find
somebody to teach it to.
So we just moved to Utah.
Uh, we raised our kids, or weall of our kids were born in

(10:25):
Georgia, and then we moved toSan Diego, and so our two oldest
became teenagers in San Diego,then we moved to Vegas for
various reasons, uh, where mytwo youngest kids became
teenagers, and then we justrecently moved to Utah, and so I
just got called last week as agospel doctrine teacher, and I'm
so excited because I love toteach, especially teaching stuff

(10:50):
about the gospel.

Yeah, I can see that.

It's so exciting, and if ever anybody's only gonna
stay for the first five minutesor however long we've talked,
here's my finishing thought.
It's all true.
The gospel of Jesus Christ istrue.
We should be just like bouncingoff the walls and yelling from
the mountaintops.
Well, I guess we are now thatwe're in Utah, aren't we?
Um, then it's true.

Awesome.
Okay, well, keep keep shoutingbecause I'm gonna turn the time
over to you.
So let's let's let's talk aboutwhere your story begins.

Oh, well, you know, uh that would be a very long,
boring story.
But I will tell you, way backwhen I was a young girl, I just
had a feeling I was gonna be awriter.
I knew I was gonna be a writer,I knew I was gonna be an
author, but I didn't know what Iwas gonna write about.

(11:49):
And so anyway, here we are.
I've just now published my 36thbook.
This is my 36th one.
I don't know if this is gonnalook backwards on the screen or
not.
No, it looks like oh, good.
Okay, well, so this one iscalled The Language of Heaven.
And it's the subtitle is Hebrewwords every Latter-day Saint

(12:12):
Should Know to Better Understandthe Bible, covenants, and God.
And so today, if we have time,I want to share some really cool
Hebrew words that add layers ofinsight that I just think are
so amazing.
And yeah, I think members ofthe Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints are so goodabout studying the scriptures

(12:35):
and wanting to dive deeper anddig and pull out more meaning.
And uh years ago, I startedteaching Old Testament in gospel
doctrine many years ago, and Iran to the nearest Judaica store
where I could buy swag, Jewishswag and stuff, because I
thought it was so fascinating.
And I remember being prettyyoung the very first time I saw

(12:59):
anybody at the Western Wall inIsrael.
And and we can talk about thatbecause I've had some amazing
experiences there, but um, Ijust wanted to know more.
And so this is the first timeI've written a book that teaches
Hebrew words.
Um, but another book that Iwrote that has to do with Israel

(13:21):
and my experiences there iscalled Via Dolorosa.
Now, I hope this doesn't looklike a big plug from my books,
but um, this particular bookcover is a little jolting, I
think, to LDS sensitivities.
In fact, the original cover waskind of really bloody, which is
of course realistic.

(13:41):
But this book is calledChrist's Path to the Cross.
So we can start there.
How about that?
So have you heard of ViaDolorosa?
Either of you, do you know whatthat is?

I might have heard it in the past, but I
didn't know what it was untiluntil you mentioned it in your
the thing you sent over.
Um, and that that wasfascinating to me.
That's I asked if you wouldtalk about that on the podcast.

So yeah, yeah.
Well, I think in typicalLatter-day Saint culture, we
don't know what it is.
We don't talk about it.
We talk about Christ's lastdays or his last hours, and
we're familiar with the sequenceof events that led him from
condemnation with Pontius Pilateall the way to crucifixion on

(14:32):
the cross, but we don't call itthe Via Dolorosa.
And and the word, the term viadolorosa, via means way or path,
and dolorosa is painful orsorrowful.
So it's the painful path, thethe sorrowing path that Christ
walked from condemnation tocrucifixion.

(14:52):
And so, way back in the day, umof Constantine, we'll talk
about Emperor Constantine.
Um he became a Christian, andhis mother was very Christian,
and she felt like she wanted togo to the Holy Land, to Israel,
to see if she could actuallyidentify the exact location

(15:17):
where things took place,specifically the crucifixion.
And so she did as much researchas she was able.
I mean, we're talking centuriesand centuries ago, and I just
think, bless her heart, shewould do if I were, you know,
that smart and had that kind ofmoney back then, you know, I
would have wanted to do thattoo.

(15:37):
But so she went all the way toIsrael, to Jerusalem
specifically, and tried toidentify all of these various
sites.
And as best as she knew at thetime, she did identify some
sites.
And they became the beginningsof this Via Dolorosa.
The actual path has changed alittle bit over the years.

(15:58):
And archaeologists andscripture scholars and
historians debate about which ofthese sites are actually
legitimate.
But ultimately, for me, I thinkit's fascinating to be able to
say I'm standing where Jesusstood on a first century stone
on a walkway, right?
But ultimately, it's moreimportant, not exactly where he

(16:21):
walked, but that we follow inhis footsteps in our everyday
life.
And I would love for all ofyour listeners to be able to go
to Israel.
It's amazing.
And I always heard, oh, it'slife-changing.
But it wasn't like I was, youknow, a murderer committing
crimes and needed to have mylife changed, you know, but it
really was life-changing.

(16:42):
It just brings all of thescriptures to life in new ways.
It's it's truly sacred groundand amazing, and the most
valuable piece of real estate onthis planet, valuable in money,
but valuable because there arethree major religions that
worship there, uh, mainlyChristianity, Judaism, and

(17:04):
Islam.
Uh, that there are sacred sitesthere for each of those three
religions.
And of course, we share commonancestors in Abraham and
whatnot.
But so over the centuries,there became this actual path.
And they created what theycalled stations and they mark
them.
And on the walls and on theground, you see these markers

(17:26):
that say, here's station one,and where they think is Pontius
Pilate's praetorium, which iswhere the condemnation and the
accusation came, right, oroccurred.
And then it winds through wherepeople believe, traditionally,
where Christ actually walkedthrough the city.
And of course, the city is alittle bit different than it was

(17:49):
back then, but uh, you canfollow this path and you can
stop at these stations and learnand read scriptures about what
they believe happened at theseactual sites.
And that alone is justfascinating.
A lot of these sites were uhimmediately accepted by the

(18:11):
Roman Catholic Church.
And you see a lot of thecathedrals, the churches, the
little buildings, whatever thesites are, are maintained by the
Roman Catholic Church today.
And it's just the sweetestthing you see as you're walking
down this path, you might see abunch of monks walking the path.

(18:33):
You might see a bunch ofChristian Protestant groups
carrying crosses as they walkthe path.
You'll see people singing songsand praying and in a multitude
of languages.
And I just think that is sosweet.
I think oftentimes members ofour church might go into a
Catholic cathedral and whichtends to be very dark, lit by

(18:57):
candles, and a great symbol oflight and truth is brightness.
You know, our LDS temples arebright, and and that's
significant.
And yet I always feel thespirit in Catholic cathedrals or
cathedrals of any kind, withthose just spires that reach up

(19:19):
to heaven and uh that imageryand the lighting that they use
and the beautiful paintings.
And I think we're missing outon an opportunity to feel the
spirit and to learn through thisspirit when we're in some of
these other religious uhbuildings and sacred sites.
Um have you been to any placeslike that where especially maybe

(19:43):
outside of Israel, but youknow, any place else where you
might have traveled in theworld, either of you two, where
you felt like wow.
Tell us about that.

I've been to the Familia de Grata.

Oh, Barcelona.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that that was pretty impressive to go in
there.
Like it's true.
Like some of those cathedrals,the inside are just
mind-blowing.
There's breathtaking with thestained glass coming through
the, you know, and the differentcolors of light.

And that particular cathedral, it's in Barcelona.
I served my mission in Madrid,but before I served my mission,
I went BYU study abroad.
And we went to Barcelona.
Barcelona.
Everybody makes fun of theSpanish accent, but um, and I
just was blown away.
It was so unique.
And just this last May, I tookmy husband for the first time,

(20:40):
and his jaw just literallydropped.
One thing that's interestingabout cathedrals and even small
Catholic churches around theworld is you will see this Via
Dolorosa represented inside thecathedrals or the churches on
the walls.
They're off on plaques, andeach station has its own plaque,

(21:03):
or they might have a statue ora painting or um a mosaic or
something that walks you througheach of those stations and they
wrap around the churches or thecathedrals.
And you might not have noticedthat, that that's what that is.
So it is now that you say that,yeah.

Now that you say that, I mean they did have
different um sections and theyhad candles in front that you
could you could light thecandles and you went around.
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, which is really fun.
I've taken pictures around theworld of the Via Dolorosa
represented in differentartistic ways.
And I just think that's reallycool.
And it's so focused on theatoning sacrifice.
You know, a lot of times peoplethink the atonement happened on
the cross or just in the Gardenof Gethsemane, but it was a

(21:52):
process for sure that there wasboth body and spirit uh being
sacrificed in, you know,specifically the Garden of
Gethsemane and uh on the cross.
Um, but anyway, I just thinkthat that's really neat.
So the Roman Catholic Churchprinted out a list of the
stations and they numbered themand they came up with the path.

(22:13):
And you can find that path allover Jerusalem because tourists
want to go there and worship andor even just look out of
curiosity to see.
Some of them are uh justdifferent buildings that
represent, for example, whenChrist uh tripped and fell.
And Cyrus the Cyrene wasordered by the Roman soldiers to

(22:34):
help him.
And so they've got a littlechurch to commemorate uh both
Jesus Christ, of course, buteven the this man who was just
pulled out of a crowd, you know,to help Jesus, which I think is
true.
And now that is scripturallybased.
Over the time, or over thedecades or centuries, even,
there were people more recentProtestants and evangelicals

(22:58):
that said, wait a second, noteverything on this list is
actually in the scriptures,which is true.
And so then the Pope was like,the Pope at the time was like,
okay, let's write a list of theones that are just in the
scriptures.
And so some people skip overthe other ones, but you have to
pass those other ones anywayalong the path.
And so they're hard to learnabout in there.

(23:20):
There it gives us a moment ofpause to reflect on the many
things that happened between thecondemnation and crucifixion.
For example, we know that uhJesus saw his mother.
Was it that exact spot?
I don't know, but she wasabsolutely in the crowd, and

(23:40):
there's a beautiful small churchin her honor.
And as a mother, I just getall, you know, that's so screen
because I can't even imaginewhat that must have been like
for her to see her son, her babygo through all of that.
Um, anyway, so there's just allof these amazing uh sights

(24:02):
along the way, and then thegrand finale, according to
Constantine's mother, is uh theChurch of the Holy Sepulchre.
The last five stations are inthis massive church building.
And again, there are historiansand archaeologists that debate
and say it's absolutely not thislocation.

(24:24):
And we even have a modern-dayprophet who said it might not
have been right here, it mighthave been on the other side of
town and where he was buried orcrucified at Golgotha and buried
there.
And of course, I've gone tothat site as well, or both of
those sites, and felt the spiritthere, but I also felt it at

(24:46):
the other location.
I I can't tell you which one isthe actual location, but I felt
like both of those locations, Imean, the Church of the Holy
Sepulchre and then the Galgothawith the garden tomb area, which
is just right around the cornerfrom it, they both give us a

(25:06):
place to reflect on the Savior.
And that's the point, is toreally think about this
sacrifice that he was willing topay, to pay the debt of justice
and mercy that was requiredeternally for us to be able to
be washed clean through therepentance process and be able
to return to the presence ofGod.

(25:28):
It's just amazing.
And I love this book so muchbecause I just got to relive my
experiences walking the path andbeing in Israel.
And um, it's really neat.
And the the book, this book,I'll tell you about the other
one in a second.
And cut me off if you want,need me to stop talking.
Fascinating.

(25:50):
But anyway, this one it cameout right before Easter when the
prophet had said we need tofind really good ways to honor
and celebrate the holiest uhmoment ever, which was the
atoning sacrifice and theresurrection of Jesus Christ,

(26:11):
right?
The point is that he lives.
Anyway, so this book came outright before Easter.
And so, in that book, the uh uhe in each chapter I talk about
the stations, what happened, thescriptures that go with them,
quotes from our living uhapostles and prophets, and uh
and some fun information.
Um, and then some tips forfamilies on how could you

(26:35):
celebrate or honor this momenton that Via Dolorosa with your
family.
And so ideally, you would thereare you know a number of
stations, and so you would backup before Easter and maybe focus
on one station each day andread and uh incorporate some of
the ideas and the activities andthings as you prepare for

(26:57):
Easter.
And I love that Russell M.
Nelson really wanted us tofocus on Easter.
It's it's crazy that withChristmas, we start celebrating.
I saw Christmas decorationshere in Utah, in Costco, in
September, and which is great.

(27:18):
I mean, inappropriate.
Christmas is awesome, and ofcourse, Easter couldn't have
happened without Christmas, butEaster, why aren't we just
obsessed and go nuts over Easterlike we do Christmas?
Because that's the whole pointof Christmas, right?
Anyway, uh, so I love thatbook.
All right, should we talk aboutthe other one?
Or you guys want to talk somemore about this one?

Well, one idea that I just had when you're
talking about um how to use ituse that as a family, I think it
would be a cool activity aroundEaster time to like set up the
stations and have people be ableto like walk around and have
read something in each one orsomething, you know what I mean?
I like that idea, so I'm like,throw that away for the future.

Right.
And then there are things thatyou can read together as a
family, um and the scripturesthat go with it, and all of
that.
I mean, it's kind of done foryou.
You know, you can read it as abook, but you can also read it
as a workbook, you know, on howto put this thing together.
You know, we do so many neatthings at Christmas time, like
the nativities that stakes andwards set up, you know,

(28:26):
nativities from around theworld, which I think is super
cool.
Um, I fit in wards and stakesthat did Bethlehem, where they
build a whole city of Bethlehemand you know, reenact that whole
thing, which is awesome.
But I mean, this is you mightsay this might seem a little
more grim than the Christmasstuff because it it ends in a

(28:48):
horrible, tortuous crucifixion,but that's not the end of the
story, obviously.
The the the good part is theresurrection that he lives.

Yeah, yeah.
I love the artwork on thatbook, by the way.
That's gorgeous.

Yeah, thanks.
Again, I thought it was gonnabe it was a little bloody, so
they turned it from red to kindof a softer orange, but it
really obviously was that way.
Sometimes we kind of whitewashit and and just think of the the
nice things about theresurrection, but it was
gruesome and horrible, andimportant that we know that and

(29:28):
honor that because that really Ithink it it gives like meat to
this atoning sacrifice, uhright, and rightly so.
I mean, I will start to cry ifI go into too much more detail
about this, but but anyway, umyeah, I I just I love being in

(29:49):
Israel, and sadly, I wassupposed to be in Israel right
now leading a tour group, butwith all the stuff going on in
the last two, three months,everybody who had signed up and
paid a deposit canceled, andrightly so.
I mean, it's it's crazy.

And traffic, the there's a lot of like flights
are getting canceled, right?

It's it's a very scary place to be.
And I was worried what wasgonna happen.
The like two days before I wassupposed to fly this last time
that I went, you know, therewere gunshots fired on the
Temple Mount, no less.
And I'm like, oh, or are wegonna cancel?
And the tour guide at that timewas like, no, this happens all

(30:34):
the time, and it does, but it'sbeen extra scary recently, and
so everybody canceled.
And of course, I was like,safety first, I will never take
anybody there if it's not safe.
And granted, it's been safe.
So I feel so grateful I've beenable to go when I have.
Uh, there are pockets in timeyears ago when I was a student

(30:56):
at BYU, I was gonna do the studyabroad BYU, and it got canceled
because of terrorism.
This was a long time ago, andthen I was like, oh no.
So the next year I tried itagain with my twin sister and it
got canceled again.
And I'm like, am I ever gonnaget to go?
And so this last time that Iwent, I got to go with my twin
sister, and we cried the wholetime.

(31:18):
It's such an emotionalexperience.
Every day I'm just like, it'sit's amazing.
So maybe as a little segue intothis book, the Hebrew book, let
me tell you a little bit aboutum Israel and Hebrew and
Jerusalem in particular.
Um, I I love the Jews, I feelsuch a kinship.

(31:42):
I mean, they're my brothers,we're all part of the tribe of
Israel, right?
And we have different purposesand different personalities, and
I just get such a kick out ofthem.
And they there are so manythings I admire about the Jewish
people.

(32:02):
And I'm not gonna get allpolitical, um, because when we
talk about the Jews, we'retalking about the political,
governmental body, the state ofIsrael, but we're also talking
about spiritual Jews that couldbe living all over the world and
the way that they worship Godand try to know God.

(32:24):
And so the most sacred spot onearth by far is the Western Wall
in Jerusalem.
And have either of you seenpictures?
Do you know what that lookslike?

Or have yeah, I mean, you see, you see, there's
usually thousands of Jews likepraying at the wall, putting
their little prayers in thecracks.
Yes, I mean it's they're verydevout, it's incredible how
devout they are.

It is incredible, and uh I just think, wow, I I
need to be more like them.
And the way you'll see themwalking all over all over um
Israel.
Well, even New York, we have ahuge um Jewish uh, I was gonna
say group, but there are severaldifferent sects.
I mean, kind of likeChristianity has different
sects, uh, so does Judaism.

(33:17):
But without shame, they'rewearing their religious garb.
Um, and it's differentdepending on the different uh
sect or organizational structurethat they belong to.
They wear it just nobody'sgonna make fun of them.
Nobody, I mean, they do makefun of them, but they don't
care.
They are very devout.
I like that you used that word,and and I love that boldness.

(33:39):
You know, as members of thechurch, we have clothing that is
special and unique to us and toour beliefs.
And and it's you people can'tsee it.
And sometimes members of thechurch are still embarrassed.
And I'm like, look at the Jews,they're just wearing all of
this fun stuff.
Um, specifically at the WesternWall, and is so cool because

(34:00):
they have so many differentkinds of outfits, you know.
And my favorite is this likeit's seven, eight thousand
dollar fur hat, and it's gotthese little fur things that
stick straight up, and it'sgorgeous.
And they, you know, the men arewearing that.
The men have the big showyoutfit, I would say, or outfits

(34:21):
that they would say.
You'll see the ones that wearthe ringlets, you'll see the
prayer shawls, you'll see youknow, some wearing the yarmulke.
Um, and it's just it's all it'sso fun to see that.
Um, and I just admire theirfaith.
They love to debate, and which,you know, I think members of

(34:41):
our church are very respectfuland very reverent.
And we like to talk, but wedon't get into it, you know,
like they do, which I think isreally fun.
But anyway, uh so when you goto the Western Wall, it is
amazing.
And if you do get to go, try togo on their Shabbat, which is
Friday night.

(35:01):
What's fascinating is Fridaymorning, all of the Muslims are
at the Temple Mount, which ishere's this is going to be a
terrible illustration.
Here's the wall, and thenhere's the mount, right?
So on the top of the mount iswhere you have uh two of the
most holy sites for uh Muslims.

(35:24):
So they have the Alaska Mosque,which is a big building and
nobody can go in it unless youare a Muslim.
And then they also have theDome of the Mount, which is a
huge landmark that you'veprobably seen, and it it
glitters almost with gold.
It's round, you know, thebuilding that I'm talking about.
Yeah, and that is supposedlythe exact spot where uh Abraham

(35:49):
sacrificed Isaac, and it couldbe, I don't know for sure.
Like all these other things,there are places all over Israel
in the holy land where people,historians and archaeologists
and scripture scholars debateabout this, but that is a really
neat location as well.
We can't go in that either, andthere's no praying, you can't

(36:10):
bring your scriptures up there,you know, as a Christian.
Um, but anyway, so that's atthe top of the mount.
And they believe that that topof the mount, some people
believe that that was whereSolomon's temple was.
And Jews believe that that wallthat we call the Western Wall
or the Wailing Wall, I didn'tsee anybody wailing, but um that

(36:33):
that is the last remaining wallof that original temple.
And again, many people debatethat as well.
But again, it doesn't matter tome if that's the exact temple
wall.
Um, but it's a place where theydo gather.
And like you said, tons andtons of these Jews, men and

(36:54):
women, and teenagers.
So I want to tell you aboutsome of them.
So at um they have a dividerthat divides the men from the
women's side, and that's rightnext to the wall.
And then out beyond the actualwall, there's this massive,
massive uh concrete, I don'tknow what you'd call it, just

(37:18):
decking.
I don't know, that's not eventhe right word, but just this
big area, uh, and it's all madeout of concrete.
And so we got there.
Oh, I was I telling you, yeah.
So Friday morning, sorry.
Friday morning, all the Muslimsare up on the Temple Mount
worshiping and the Alaska Mosqueand you know, praying and doing
stuff around the Dove of theRock and all of that.

(37:39):
And the Jews stay away, andthen there's this mass exodus of
the Muslims as they're leavingthe city because they know
they're closing up their shops,and the best shops are the
Muslim shops in the Muslimquarter of Jerusalem.
They have the Christianquarter, the Muslim quarter, the
Jewish quarter.
Um, and then am I forgetting?

(38:02):
Uh that's weird.
I'm forgetting from theArmenians.
They there's like an Armenianquarter, and they're Christian
too.
But I'm like, oh, they gettheir own quarter.
But anyway, uh, because of alot of history, and I won't go
into all of the details.
But anyway, uh, so I didn'tknow the first time I went, I
didn't know what was happening.
We were trying to get in to thewhat they call the old city,

(38:25):
the Jerusalem that's surroundedby the walls.
And there's just this horde ofpeople, Muslim, mostly let me
think if I saw any women, mostlyMuslim men, because they're the
ones that are going up into themosque to worship.
Anyway, they're all justpouring out.
It was like a Sam, you know,trying to salmon swimming
upstream kind of situation.
And it was just reallyinteresting.

(38:45):
And finally, I stoppedsomebody, and in English, of
course, I don't speak Arabic,um, although I've tried years
ago.
Uh anyway, you know, I said,What's happening?
And he, I felt so sad andembarrassed for myself because
he's like, You don't know whatthis is.
And I'm like, No, this is myfirst time here.
And he's like, you know, we arejust finished worshiping, and

(39:06):
you know, and now we have toleave because the Jews are
coming in for their Shabbatservice, you know, at the at the
wall, which is right there inthe same place, you know.
And he's like, We Muslims areinvisible in Jerusalem.
And I said, Oh, no, not at all.
I love that you all are sharingthis sacred city.
And so then he kind of calmeddown a little bit.

(39:26):
And then we had a really lovelyconversation about, you know,
all of the all of the peoplefrom around the world that that
flock to Jerusalem to worshipwhatever God, you know, they
believe is the true God.
And and I admire that so much.
Are you familiar with the termholy envy?

No.

So um I should have brushed up on this.
I didn't know I was gonna talkabout this, but I think he was a
Swedish priest um that thatcoined this term, and in fact,
it had to do with the time.
When the church was building atemple over in Europe.
And as what often happens, somepeople in the community say,
Hey, what is this?

(40:09):
You know, and they're not surewho Mormons are or what is this
building, and you know, all ofthis kind of stuff.
And so people were starting tocriticize the church.
And why are you building thisbig building here?
We don't want this buildinghere.
And so this man of faith, notof our faith, but a good,
righteous man, said, Hold on aminute.

(40:29):
I have holy envy for theMormons.
And we think of the word envyas a negative term, but really
envy, meaning he admired so manyof the things that Latter-day
Saints are known for.
We are just an incredibleservice-oriented church and a
family-oriented church.

(40:49):
I mean, just to start off.
But then he rattled off all ofthese other things and he said,
You people don't understand.
They are bringing goodness toour city.
Why wouldn't you want that?
And I think he wrote a bookabout it, or certainly at least
an article that I read calledTalked About Holy Envy.
And he went through severaldifferent other religions and
talked about, you know, like Iadmire so much.

(41:12):
I have holy envy for the Jewsand how they worship so boldly
and fearlessly and obediently.
And I have holy envy for theMuslims for their prayer, their
dedication to prayer.
I've seen Muslims just here inAmerica go into a store, like in

(41:34):
a bathroom, and do theirwashings before they do their
prayer because it's they look atthe clock, it's time to pray,
you know.
That's so admirable.
But anyway, I get off onto allof that tangent.
What was I saying before I gotoff onto the holy envy?
Anyway, oh, so the Muslims areleaving and the Jews are pouring

(41:57):
into the old city of Jerusalem.
I mean, Jerusalem is a bigcity, um, but the old city is
you know where Jesus would havehung out, kind of a thing.
You know, the original type atthis part of the city.
And by the way, the BYUJerusalem Center has a gorgeous
view, the best view, in myopinion, of the whole city of

(42:18):
Jerusalem.
It's up on the Mount of Olives,which is so awesome.
But anyway, uh so the Jewsstart coming into the city to
get ready to go to the wall.
And so we got there as the sun,it was there, it was sunny by
the time we got there.
So it wasn't dusk yet whentheir Sabbath starts, the
Shabbat.

(42:39):
And so, you know, there weresome people at the wall, men,
and they have all of theiroutfits on, which is really
cool.
And then they have a table setup with their scriptures.
So they have what's called theTorah, which is the first five
books of the Old Testament, whatwe call the Pentateuch, and

(42:59):
that is their sacred scripture.
But they also have somethingcalled a Tanakh, which is the
rest of the Old Testament, butthey really focus on those first
five books, which are the lawsand the commandments, and
they're so uh determined to beobedient.
And again, I think that that'samazing.
And then uh they have somethingcalled the Talmud, and that is

(43:24):
writings and writings of ancientrabbis who debate what does the
Torah mean when it says this,that, and the other thing, and
and what about the rest of theOld Testament?
And so it's all of the Jewishwritings of you know, how do we
interpret what the scripturessay?
Anyway, so they can pick upwhatever scriptures they want,

(43:44):
take it to the wall, and you'lloften see Jewish men standing at
the wall, and they're holdingwhichever set of scriptures, you
know, they're focused on,usually the Torah.
And so they get into thisrhythmic motion.
Have you ever seen videos ofthat?
Do you know how it up?
I haven't, but I need to watchthe videos now.

I'm excited to do it.

And I remember seeing it as a young child, and
I was like, that's interesting.
Why do they do that?
And there's a Hebrew word thatactually explains that it's kind
of partly, I I love thedefinition that it's partly how
they taste the scriptures, andtheir whole body is experiencing
the scriptures.

(44:27):
And think if you are an endowedmember of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, andyou go to the temple, think
about where you might have seena motion like that.
Remember, they're standing atthe wall that they believe is
the temple wall, um, maybe evena temple veil.
And so when I first had gone tothe temple the very first time,

(44:48):
I'm like, oh, this looksfamiliar.
And I think that that is acustom, tradition, remnant of a
true principle that the Jewishpeople used to know.
Anyway, but part of it is alsothe modern day experience of
tasting the scriptures andreally getting into um a

(45:10):
meditation type of estate, whichI think is really interesting.
Um, and then uh you mentionedthat you see people putting in
little prayers in the cracks.
These stones are massive, andso there are these cracks
between the stones, and sopeople put little notes in
prayers in between these littlecracks.

(45:32):
And first time I ever saw thatwhen I was a little girl, I'm
like, I want to do that someday.
And so my twin sister and Ibrought little written uh
letters to God that we hadwritten and folded them up in
little tiny pieces, and we wentto the women's side, of course,
because we're not allowed on themen's side, and we found some.
Well, first before we put themin the cracks, we ran our

(45:52):
letters to each other and cried.
It was just a cry, you know,every time I'm there, but um put
put them in the little cracks,and I just was so excited about
that.
And what's kind of cool isevery six months, you can
imagine lots of these littleletters, even though they're
tiny, they build up.
And so every six months thereare some special rabbis whose

(46:16):
job is to take out all of thelittle papers, and then I
learned that they bury them onthe Mount of Olives, and so now
my little letter is on the Mountof Olives, which of course is
hugely significant forChristians around the world
because we know that when Christcomes again, one of his

(46:38):
appearances will be on the Mountof Olives.
And he's gonna see my letter.
Anyway, of course, he knew whatwas in the letter before he's
gonna step on the Mount ofOlives and see that.
But anyway, I was just like,that's so amazing.
But I had such an incredibleexperience on the women's side.
The men um are different fromthe women.

(46:59):
The women, um, they're verysweet.
I felt like I was with SweetRelief Society sisters, and they
don't have a certain outfitthat they have to wear like the
men do, but you'll often seethem wearing the scarves.
And so we had my twin sisterand I brought scarves to make
sure we could be respectful, andthey wear clothing that is

(47:22):
modest below the knee, coversthe arms, uh, and often the all
the way down the sleeve, youknow, to the wrist and that kind
of thing.
And there's just such a sweet,gentle spirit there.
And so after my twin sister andI cried and put the stuff, you
know, the letters on the rocks,then we kind of sat back and
chairs out for women, which Ithought was very thoughtful.

(47:42):
And so we were sitting on somechairs, kind of watching what
was happening.
And pretty soon we saw thisyoung girl, she was maybe 12, 13
years old.
And so we called her a beehive,you know, in the church how we
used to call 12 and 13 beehives.
And so she kind of walked up,and you could tell she was very
excited and very nervous.
And it might have been herfirst time because that's kind

(48:04):
of the vibe I was getting.
And she was busy kind oflooking around to see, you know,
if she was gonna do it right.
And so she kind of lookedaround and she, of course, saw
that people were rocking, themen predominantly, but the women
rocked too.
And so she kind of startedrocking kind of slowly as she
was looking around.
And then it was really fun towatch her because you could tell

(48:27):
she finally got into hergroove.
And and you could kind of seethe moment where the world
disappeared and it was her andGod talking and communing.
And I loved that image.
But wait, there's more.
So then while she's finallygetting into her, you know, her
groove, an older teenage girlshowed up, and we called her a

(48:49):
laurel because she was probably17, 18 years old.
And there was no hesitation.
I don't know if that maybeshe'd been there many times, or
she just had a plan that sheknew what she was gonna do.
But so she walked over to thearea, went straight up to the
wall, and leaned her whole bodyon the wall: hands, face, chest,

(49:10):
legs, hips, feet, everything.
She was all in.
And she was, I couldn't hearwhat she was saying.
Um, and even if I could hear, Iwouldn't understand everything
she was saying.
But she was talking to God andthey were having a conversation.
And I was, I it was, I wasbreathless watching that.

(49:31):
And I just thought I need to bemore like that in when I pray.
You know, I I feel so bad forHeavenly Father because as soon
as I start to pray, I canalready feel his eyes start to
roll.
Like, okay, this will be about30 seconds, and then Trina's
gonna pass out, you know.
We're just gonna do the sameold thing, you know.

(49:55):
But what I saw on the wall withthis young girl was just
breathtaking and stunning.
Um, okay, so I want to teachyou a uh Hebrew word.
I don't know how I have no ideahow long we've been going.

Should I keep 50 51 minutes?
But it's been amazing.

Okay, we only have time for one word, but this is a
really good one.
Let me let me scoot over mynotes to make sure I tell you
correctly.
So in my book, in this Hebrewbook, there's um more than one
word for a full year.
In other words, I forget, Ithink I ended up with 60
chapters or something like that.
And so if you and your familywanted to learn a Hebrew word,

(50:37):
you know, one every week, uh,the chapters teach you the word,
how to pronounce it, what itmeans, where we see it in
scriptures, uh, specifically inthe Old Testament.
The Old Testament waspredominantly written in Hebrew,
that's why it's called thelanguage of heaven.
And there are so many smallconnotations that add tremendous

(51:02):
insight into our understanding.
And then in each chapter, thereare these little fun facts, I
call them, fun Jewish factsabout Judaism that I think are
really cool that also addgreater understanding.
And then there's quotes fromprophets and apostles and
whatnot.
Um, and then uh questions toask yourself about that.

(51:23):
Oh, then that oh, stories inthe scriptures that also talk
about it.
Okay, I gotta make my noteseven larger here so I can read
them without wearing the glassesthat make me look like I'm a
hundred years old.
Okay, so this word kind ofencapsulates that idea that I am
all in, like this girl at theWestern Wall.

(51:45):
And so the word is Shema.
Have you ever heard this wordbefore?

It kind of sounds I don't know, doesn't it sound
like the word um mother inNavajo?
Oh, I don't know Navajo, maybeI only I've done like Navajo
like once on Dulingo, but maybeI'm totally wrong.

Oh maybe what's interesting.
I've I've been trying to learnMandarin because one of my sons
married a girl from Hong Kong,and I know they speak Cantonese
in Hong Kong, but they also dospeak Mandarin, and I have done
book tours in China many timesand spoken well, not just about
my books, but about educationand whatnot.

(52:27):
But anyway, Shema means what isthis?
But in Mandarin, but I digress.
Okay, so in uh Shema in Hebrew,and I love this one, it means
to hear, to listen, right?
But you could also say tohearken, but you could also say

(52:49):
to obey.
It means all of those things.
In other words, it's to listenattentively, to perceive
something, but more importantly,and this will bring us full
circle back to what I said atthe beginning, to act upon what
is heard, right?
Um, it's not just hearing theword, but actually taking action
on what you've learned.

(53:10):
So in Jewish tradition,Deuteronomy chapter 6, verses 4
through 9 is known as the Shemaprayer.
And so every Jew says it firstthing in the morning when they
wake up.
And last thing they say beforethey go to bed, and when
possible, the last thing theysay before they die, which is

(53:31):
not always possible because youmight just have a heart attack
and not have time.
But right.
Um, so it's the Shema Israelprayer, and uh faithful Jews say
this.
Now, have either of you watchedthe chosen, the TV series about
Jesus and the disciples?
I need to.

Emily, what are you doing?

It's so good, it's so powerful.
There are some amazing momentsthat just made make take my
breath away.
Uh truly.
Where is it?

What is it streamed on?
Where can you stream it?

It's on, I think it's it's it has its own app.

Well, it has its own app if you look up.
You can get it on um BYU TV,you can find it on YouTube, you
can find it on uh um AngelStudios website.

Um I just go find it and watch it.
I was like, yeah, yeah.

Do you have a Roku device by any chance?

Uh something similar.

Yeah, so like on Roku, you could just say, Where
can I watch this thing?
Where is it playing?
And it'll say, Oh, you can payfor it on Amazon, or you can
watch it for free on Netflix, oryou can go to, you know, and so
that's a really cool feature.
But anyway, it the reason Imention it is you see Jesus in

(55:00):
The Chosen recite this prayerseveral times in different
episodes.
There's a sweet episode wherehe's with children, they're kind
of at a campsite, and so he hegets out of his tent and he sees
these children, and and he'slike, Oh, have you said your
Shema Israel prayer today?
Uh, you know, and they're like,Yes, because it's something all

(55:23):
Jewish children know by heart.
And so, and I've been, youknow, trying to memorize it, but
and I try to do it first thingin the morning before I even get
out of bed, as soon as I'maware I'm awake and I've lived
another day, before my eyes evenopen, sometimes I'll recite it
out loud.
Sometimes I'll say, Alexa, playor say Deuteronomy chapter six,

(55:46):
verses four through nine, andshe'll say it for me.
And sometimes, if I'm just sotired, I'll just say Shema.
And I know God knows what I'msaying, what I'm referring to.
Anyway, it's this prayer thatum reveals God's character to us
and how he feels about us.
So, for example, when um in theOld Testament and the New

(56:14):
Testament, and even in the Bookof Mormon and Doctrine and
Covenants, you will hear in theOld Testament specifically,
hearken Israel, or O Israel,hear me, listen to me, right?
You've heard that.
Um, and then you'll you hearthat in all of the scriptures in
a different format, basically.

(56:35):
Um, but it's talking about youknow, hear Israel, hear me, oh
my people.
And um right anyway, it's very,very sweet.

Um parents wish that their children would
listen.

Exactly.
Um the first line of the prayeris hear, O Israel, the Lord our
God, the Lord is one.
And then it goes on to talkabout how to love God with all
their heart, their soul, andtheir might.
And so I'll finish up thisstory by going back to the
Western wall.
After my sister and I werecrying and watching all of this

(57:12):
stuff happen at the the at thewall on the women's side, I feel
like the women's side, I reallyfelt women worshiping God with
their heart, right?
And specifically the one girlwho had her whole body, that was
her soul.
But I didn't tell you about themight.

(57:32):
So after we did our littlewomen's side moment, we heard a
commotion beyond kind of thewestern wall, immediate wall.
And I looked over and on thatbig concrete area, a bunch of
teenage boys showed up.
And I was like, oh, what'sgoing on?
And they were exuberant andthey were laughing and shouting

(57:55):
and cheering and they started tosing, they put their arms
around each other and theystarted to dance and chant and
they were celebrating.
This is the Sabbath day forthem, remember?
And I'm like, wow, that'spretty different from what we
see our young men do on theSabbath day in our church.
And I was in awe.
It wasn't like somebody liketheir teacher said, All right,

(58:16):
we're in a sacred place, youknow, act all spiritual.
These kids were on fire forGod, and they're I shouldn't say
kids, these Jewish young menwere on fire, and they were
lifting each other up on theirshoulders and like, yay, God,
and that's how I feel about God,you know, yay, God.
And it was so infectious.

(58:38):
And so we walked over there,and the circle grew as more
groups came, and they opened uptheir circle and invited us to,
you know, join in.
And I didn't know what anybodywas saying, but we were doing
the yay, God thing, you know,and I was like, that's might
loving God with all your might.
And it was just, like I said,so invigorating, and the

(59:00):
enthusiasm was just off thecharts, and they worshiped in
song and dance like David, KingDavid.
The Jews love King David andthey think he was the best ever,
and which I find amazingbecause David had some sins
going on, right?
And but they believe, and theyJews have debated King David for

(59:24):
centuries, and they just said,you know what?
God knew his heart, they knewhe wanted to be better.
He tried to repent, and uh andhe felt horrible about what he
had done.
And the Jews forgave KingDavid.
Of course, Jerusalem was builtas the city of David, and they
just you could just tell theyabsolutely loved being there and

(59:45):
being a part of that, and thatmade it even more special for
me, you know, and all of theother people that were in our
group to be able to experiencethat.
And so that's what the Shemaprayer is all about is um love.
Learning to love God with ourheart, might, mind.
Wait, what did I just say?
Our heart, our soul, and ourmight.

(01:00:07):
Um, and and that that alsoembodies Jesus Christ.
He gave his heart, his might,and his soul for us on that
cross.
And that's just stunning andmind-boggling to me and brings
me to tears and to my knees.
And anyway, I I there's so manyother things I wanted to share

(01:00:30):
with you, but I know I've talkeda lot.
But hopefully you'll maybethat's just enough to whet your
appetite so that you'll go on toYouTube and start watching some
videos and learn about some ofthe amazing things that uh that
we can learn about the Bible, ofcourse, but more about Jesus
Christ.
Oh, I have to tell you one lastthing.

(01:00:50):
The very first sentence.
This is really cool.
The very first sentence in theBible, do you know what it is in
Genesis chapter one, verse one?
What do we learn?

Scott Brandley (01:01:03):
In the beginning, God created the
heavens and the earth, theearth.

Trina Boice (01:01:09):
Yeah, God created the heavens and the earth,
right?
And so you're like, Yeah, yeah,I've read that a million times.
When you study the that onesentence in Hebrew, it's really
cool.
Of course, when they say theword God, they use the name
Elohim.
Oftentimes you'll see him inHebrew words like seraphim and
cherubim.

(01:01:30):
That's plural.
The gods created the heavensand the earth.
And then there's this littlearticle, um, kind of like an
article in English, we would saya and or the, except where it's
used right before like anindirect object.
And so it the the two lettersthat make up this article are

(01:01:52):
the first and the last lettersof the Hebrew alphabet,
elephant.
And what that and it comesright after the name Elohim.
And so when you translate that,it means Jesus Christ, the
Alpha and the Omega, right?
He was the word.

(01:02:13):
And then if you look backbefore Hebrew became the the
letters that we know today, theyused something that was like a
pictogram, almost like anEgyptian hieroglyphic.
And what's super cool is thethe those two characters, the
first one has to do with thealeph has to do with a covenant,

(01:02:37):
a promise, an anointing.
And then the tav, that last uhletter of the Hebrew alphabet,
that little character, thepicture, was a cross.
And so what if you take thatapart in Hebrew, it's literally
saying in the beginning, in thebeginning, gods, the gods, the

(01:03:00):
council of the gods, uh createdthe heaven and the earth and had
a plan that there would be anatoning sacrifice made on the
cross to complete this wholeprocess.
I mean, I'm kind of I'm nottranslating that obviously word
for word, but the Jesus is inthe very first sentence of the
Old Testament.
I think a lot of members of thechurch look at the Old

(01:03:22):
Testament and they're like, oh,that's all weird stuff, you
know, weird old stories.
We want to read the NewTestament.
But Jesus is all over the OldTestament.
And as much as I love Jews, somany of them didn't see that.
The Old Testament is filledwith signs and symbols that are
pointing to Jesus, so that whenJesus came, they would recognize

(01:03:45):
him.
And of course, many of them didand they followed Jesus, but
many didn't, and they missed themark.
They missed the cross.
And so my prayer, I guess, aswe end is that we don't miss the
mark, that when we study theOld Testament specifically,
2026, that we look for himbecause he is absolutely in

(01:04:07):
there.
Everything testifies of JesusChrist, and I do too.

Wow.
I love your living in yourbrain for one day would just be
mind-boggling.

Obviously, I could talk about this a lot.
I love it so much.
Thank you for allowing me andinviting me to share some of
these ideas with you and youraudience.

Emily Hemmert (01:04:33):
It's interesting because my mom was able to um
backpack in Israel when she wasyoung.
And I used to think like thatwould be so cool.
And I don't think that I'llever be able to do that just
because it's like doesn't seemsafe.
But she actually, she's not amember of the church, but she
said at one point she like gotpicked up by a like a Mormon
mom.
And I was like, that's crazy.

(01:04:54):
Like one of the chances thatran into like some Mormon that
gave you a ride.
I know I don't know if I'llever make it to Israel, but I I
told my husband I want to go,and he was like, that is not on
it's not on his bucket list ofplaces to visit, just really
it's dangerous, I guess.

It is, it's scary, and it always has been.
I mean, yeah, you know, in thebeginning, it's these religious
groups are battling for thatthat land.
That's how important it is.

Well, I I'd love to read some of your other books
too, really quick.
Do you want to talk about whattype of books have you written?
Like in addition to these, isit all similar as far as like
nonfiction or well, that'sreally sweet of you to ask.

So I've written obviously a lot of LDS books,
and then I've turned some ofthem into more mainstream
Christian books.
And then I've written just alot of mainstream stuff.
Like, you know what mysteryshopping is, for example, when
companies pay you to pretendlike you're a normal customer,
uh, but you get like let's sayit's a restaurant and you get a

(01:06:03):
free meal, and then you write upa report about what happened,
you know.
So I've got a book about bad,and um, I've got books about um
dating, obviously, genealogy,and um doing anything.
I mean, just stuff that I amfascinated with.
I kind of started off writingum idea books.

(01:06:23):
Like, here's a bunch of ideas.
Like, if you want to learnabout your ancestry, you could
do this and you could do that,and here's some resources, and
you know, because I'm all aboutdoing, you know.

Um Scott, I feel like you need to have her on
again later for like anothertopic.

The next well, so I went in one of my youngest son
and I are writing a book aboutRome.
I finally got to take him forhis first time to Rome back in
May, and his mind just wasblown.
He's a history buff.
And so, anyway, I'm like, youwant to write a book?
And he's a really good writer,and so I'm like, let's do Rome.

(01:07:02):
So we'll talk about it, it'llprobably be a supplemental book
for the New Testament becauseRome played a major role in
Christ and his life and death,obviously.
But Rome is an amazing city,it's called the Eternal City, so
I'm super excited about thatone.
Uh I have always half a dozenbooks in the process of being

(01:07:25):
written, and then whichever onea publisher says, we want that
one, then I finish that one upnext.
That's a good way to do it.

How do you find time?
Because it took me nine yearsto write my book, and I like it
was a lot of work.

It is a lot of work.

36 is off the chart.

Yeah, I well, and I'm a professional author coach
as well.
And I've worked with clientswho've spent a lifetime writing
a book, uh, which is amazing.
I think the more you write, um,the better you know your voice
and the easier it is each time,I think.
So I I tend to write faster nowthan I did in the very

(01:08:04):
beginning for sure.
But it's cute because I've hadmany clients that come to me
with one book.
They're like, this is my book.
I'm putting it out there in theworld.
I'm like, that's awesome.
And then as we go through theprocess, I say, I'll bet you're
gonna write another one.
They're like, no, it's so muchwork.
And then they always do.
So, Scott, are you gonna writeanother one?

Uh, I don't know.
That was a actually, okay.
I've actually written severalbooks, but they're business
books, they're not religiousbooks.

Well, that's awesome.
Are they published?

So uh self-published.

No, that's okay.
But they're on Amazon, right?
I think I saw those on there.

Yeah.
Yeah.

Oh, tell us about yours.
I don't know about your otherones.

They're business books, so I don't talk about
them on the podcast, but they umthey have to do with they have
to do with online reputation andhow to how to improve your
reputation online.
And um that's what that's thebusiness I'm in.

So that's awesome.

Software.

Well, you should leave links in the description
below.
I want to check them out.

I know I should talk to you because um, so my uh
mission companion hunter, she'swrote her autobiography and I
have it translated, and I wantto like make it into a book, but
I want to make it more like anovel than anyway.
But it's a really amazingstory, and I'm like, this is a
good reminder.
I'm like, I should just do itand make it happen.

(01:09:25):
And I've just been sitting onit.

Yeah, you know, is it your sister is it your
companion that that was thecause of the Markov?

Yeah, and so she just has this really amazing
story that I think a lot ofpeople would benefit from
hearing me, but just a matter ofum doing it, right?

Like sitting down and taking the time and no
published authors aren't alwaysthe best writers, they're just
the most persistent ones.
They just get a done, you know.
And like nine years, so be it,you know.
Yeah.
But yeah, I do you think thateverybody has a book in them?

Yeah, I think everybody, I mean, that's kind
of this podcast, right?
Is like everybody has the storyworth telling.

Right.
That's true.
Yeah, I believe it.
You know, and some people havethe desire to turn it into a
book, and others, you know,don't for yeah, for whatever.

I think my my friend, you know, she had a lot
of mental health things and shewants to share her story in a
way that would help others.
Like her thought is like if ifher sharing these things could
help others going throughdifficult things, you know, that
would be her motivation insharing it.

So yeah, yeah, you know, and a lot of times people
will come to me and they'll say,I don't know, should I turn
this story into a book?
You know, it sounds like a lotof work.
I don't know, I don't have alot much time.
I'm like, if you want to,absolutely, I'm happy to help
you.
But you know, maybe starting ablog is hard to figure out how
much you have to say, how muchyou want to say, how you want to

(01:10:54):
say it, and you can learn a lotfrom your readers, the comments
they make or the questions thatthey make, you know, and maybe
then take it from there.
Yeah.
Uh we're so fortunate to livein a day of Amazon where you
can't anybody can self-publish abook.
That's good, but you can get iton there, you know, which is
amazing.
And blogs too.

(01:11:15):
I mean, you you've got aworldwide audience that will
read.

And now, and AI is interesting.
Like, I now I feel likehesitant to when you're reading
something, you're like, is thisAI?
You know, like you start towonder, like, yeah.

Anyway, I have a love-hate relationship with AI.
As uh as a business woman, Ihave other little businesses
that I do, it's super helpful,it speeds up processes a lot.
As a professor, I get veryfrustrated when my students
clearly use AI to just writetheir assignments.

(01:11:51):
And I'm like, what happened tocritical thinking skills?
You know, what happened towanting to actually learn in
college?
But I I won't get into all ofthat.
It's uh it's a blessing and acurse at the same time, right?
What an amazing.

So do you have a book?
Really quick, do you have abook about genealogy?
You said I love genealogy.

I do.
My twin sister and I wrote thatearly on, maybe um 20 years
ago, or I know maybe I don'tknow, whenever it was.
Um, and about that book, um sheshe fell in love with genealogy
when we were both students atBYU.
The BYU library used to play, Idon't know if they still do

(01:12:31):
this, they used to play theHawaii 5.0 theme song to the TV
show 10 minutes before thelibrary was going to close.
And so you'd be getting intoyour class and studying and
reading, all of a sudden you'dhear that Hawaii 5.0 music.
Uh, and you're like, okay, Igotta pack up and go home.
Anyway, she was like, oh, butI'm right, I'm right in the
middle, I'm getting ready tofind this name.
And she just totally got suckedinto it.

(01:12:53):
The music turned off, lightsstarted turning off.
She's still sucked into thecomputer doing this genealogy
stuff.
And it was probably close to 11o'clock, and a janitor walked
by, and he was like, Whoa, whatare you doing here?
And she's like, Genealogy?
You know, anyway.
So she got me really started ongenealogy.
And so we wrote a booktogether, and I thought it was

(01:13:15):
so interesting.
This was, I mean, again, a longtime ago.
And we this was before we hadcloud capability on the
internet, and so I would have mydocument, she would have yours,
we would email it back andforth to each other to make
changes and add things, and hercomputer crashed and she lost

(01:13:36):
everything.
Luckily, I had it.
So I quickly, when she got hercomputer fixed, sent it to her,
and then my computer crashed.
Luckily, she had the latestversion.
We just thought, well, thisbook must be important because
Satan's trying to prevent usfrom getting it out there,
right?
Um, yeah, I think withtechnology, you know, like AI,

(01:13:57):
but technology in general, uh, Ithink it's so fascinating that
the number one hobby online isgenealogy for good.
And the number one hobby on theinternet is pornography, and
that's for obviously for bad,you know, that there's an equal
amount of good and evil battlingit out online.

(01:14:19):
That is interesting.
Yeah.

Well, yeah, Scott, I think you need to
follow up with this and maybehave around here again.
And I'm like, I'd love to pickyour brain about all sorts of
stuff.

I would love that.
You have been so sweet.
I wanted us to have moreconversations, but I get carried
away and I ended up talkingprobably too much.

Well, you've got a lot to say.
So um, if if somebody wants toget um your most recent book or
the one, the other one we talkedabout via Della Rosa, where
would they find those?

The easiest way to get them is on Amazon, and you
can get them as print books, asebooks.
Neither one of these two areout on audio, but a lot of my
other books are out on audio,published by different people,
or even I did do someself-publishing stuff.
Um, you can go to Cedar Fort uhBooks, which is the publisher
that did both of these books.

(01:15:11):
Um, and and then you can go tobookstores as well.
Awesome.

Well, and we'll make sure to put the links in
the footnotes so that people canget access to that.
Thank you.
Well, any any last thoughtsthat you'd like to share?

Well, you don't even want to get me started on
another last thought.
But that's kind of you to ask.
I want to hear your lastthoughts, both of you.

Um, I'm just really impressed by your
enthusiasm to it's motivating tolike keep learning about
things.
I'm like, I need to keeplearning things, and I'm
fascinated by the Hebrew thing.
It's all fascinating.

Yeah, the more I learn, the more I realize I
don't know that much stuff.
There's a whole world and awhole history of stuff that's
amazing, and it makes me want tolearn more for sure.
It's awesome.

Scott, how about yeah, I I would kind of agree
with Emily, like you are umsomebody that that I I look up
to only in the I mean in thesense that you know you have a
this vigor for learning and forjust sharing your sharing what

(01:16:26):
you learn with other people.
That's that's a big deal.

Well, thank you for not saying it's obnoxious.
I know I can do it that waysometimes.
I've been given the lovingtitle of human caffeine when I'm
teaching, um, because I I amexcited about all this stuff.

I can't laugh for all coffee.

Somebody had once said to me that heaven is like
one of the cool things aboutheaven is you can go into this
big library and just touch abook, and all of a sudden,
through osmosis or I don't knowwhat form, you know, you all of
a sudden get all that knowledge.
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
That would be heaven to me.
Think of the time we would sayif you could just touch books

(01:17:14):
and have all of that get intoyour head.

Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, we've it's been amazing.
Um, thanks for being on theshow.

Thanks for having me.
Truly.
You two are amazing, and you'reso sweet to let me just go on
and on.

I feel like it's been our our treat to us,
really.

Thank you.

So yeah, thanks for coming on.
And anyone that's watching, ifyou want to help get this out
there, hit that share button.
Do your five, we call it thefive-second missionary work,
Trina.
So that's go to yourfive-second missionary work and
let's get this out there sopeople can be enlightened by by
these books that that Trina'swritten.

(01:18:02):
And if you have a story thatyou'd like to share, come on the
show like Trina and go toLatterdayLights.com.

Yeah, and I love your show because you have such
fascinating guests, and like yousay, everybody does have a
story, and they're always souplifting.
And I anyway, you all areputting real a lot of good in
the world, and we sure needthat.
So thank you for the light thatyou put out there.

Thank you.
Well, we're all on the sameteam trying to you know do what
we can to get the word out thereand make make the world a
little bit better, right?
So yeah.
Cool.
Well, thanks.
Uh thanks, Emily, for being myco-host too.
I really appreciate it.

Yeah, this was fun.

Awesome.
Well, you guys, um, thanks fortuning in, and we'll see you
next week with another episodeof Latter Day Lights.
Till then, take care.
Bye-bye.

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Walking the Via Dolorosa & Learning The Language of Heaven: Trina Boice's Story - Latter-Day Lights

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Walking the Via Dolorosa & Learning The Language of Heaven: Trina Boice's Story - Latter-Day Lights