45: From Colonel to Cacao: A Leadership Journey with Maria Carl

What do you get when a 23-year Air Force Colonel trades her uniform for a machete and cacao seedlings? Meet Maria Carl, who went from leading global military teams to running a thriving Hawaiian chocolate farm.

Ten years ago, she and her husband bought a wild 10-acre plot on Oahu. What started as a dream home project turned into 21 Degrees Estate – an award-winning cacao farm known for world-class chocolate and an incredible sense of community.

Maria’s story is all about reinvention. She took the leadership skills she built over decades in the military and applied them to farming, sustainability, and building something truly meaningful. Her take? “You’d be surprised how transferable your skills are—and how many good ideas people have if you actually listen.”

If you’ve ever thought about making a big life change, this episode is for you.

Check out the farm at 21degreesestatehawaii.com.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

Excited to be with you!

Episode Transcript

Sara (00:00):
Hi, this is Sara and you're listening to episode 45
of the Lead Into it podcast.
Hey there, and welcome back toLead Into it.
You are in for a treat today,literally.
I sat down with Maria Carl, aretired Air Force colonel with
over two decades of service, whotraded in her uniform and

(00:21):
started a cacao farm in Hawaii.
Yeah, you heard that right.
She and her husband, also aretired military officer,
launched 21 Degrees Estate, afamily-owned boutique cacao farm
nestled on 10 acres on theisland of Oahu.
From finding the right land toplanting over a thousand cacao
trees, their journey is one ofvision, grit and a whole lot of

(00:44):
adaptability.
But this isn't just a storyabout farming.
It's about building community,creating something meaningful
after military life and leaninginto purpose-driven leadership.
Maria shares her hard-wonwisdom from her time in uniform,
how she brought that sameresilience and adaptability to
building the farm, and whatleadership looks like now,

(01:04):
rooted in soil, service and awhole lot of heart.
So grab your favorite chocolatebar, settle in and let's get
into it Awesome.
Well, thank you so much, maria,for coming on the show.
I really appreciate it and I'mexcited to learn more about
everything that's kind of ledyou up to this point and hear
more about the chocolate farmand possibly the goats too,

(01:24):
because those are really cutewhen we came.
Yeah, and the goats.

Maria (01:30):
Well, thank you, sarah, and thanks so much for including
me on the on the podcast.
It's it's really, uh, it's funto be here and to talk about it.
We always I say we, beingmyself and my husband Michael,
who are the, the two owners ofthe 21 Degrees Estate Cacao Farm
love to talk about the farm.
We call it our grand adventureand actually this year this is

(01:51):
kind of good that we're doingthis, because this year marks
our 10-year what we callfarmiversary from when we kind
of embarked on this adventure,and so it's really been a fun
and interesting journey alongthe way for us, and so we enjoy
talking and that's really.
You know, sarah, you wererecently on one of our tours and
that's actually one of thethings we say at the beginning

(02:11):
of every tour, which is we enjoygiving the tours.
We typically give all the toursourselves, and mostly because
we love to tell about thisjourney of ours and it's just
fun for us to kind of share withothers.

Sara (02:24):
For sure, and I loved hearing about the journey there.
The only thing I thought about,I think, during the entire tour
was like, obviously thechocolate.
And then second was just howcool this journey because we met
each other it's what.

Maria (02:38):
10 years More than that, because I've been retired for
longer than that.
Yeah, it would have to belonger than that.

Sara (02:44):
that because I've been retired for longer than that.
Yeah, yeah, it would have to belonger than that.
So, um, when I was stationed inKorea and it's you were a
Colonel at the time and you cameout for a base visit, you
visited our team at Osan and itwas just really cool to meet you
in that way.
And then, um, we stayed intouch in different ways, shape
and form, um, and I know thatyou stay in touch with a lot of

(03:05):
different public affairsofficers, so that's really fun.
When I told them that I wasinterviewing you, they're like
she's great, I'm so excited tohear the episode.
And then I knew that when wewent to go visit Hawaii in
October, I was like I need to gofinally see this cacao farm,
because I had seen all thethings about it and was so
interested in just, I mean, whatis it like to own a cacao farm?

(03:28):
And then to be there, see whatyou've done in just 10 years and
I can't believe it's been 10years, cause I was thinking how
cool is it that I kind of knowsomebody that owns a cacao farm,
like how many people can saythat and then to see what you've
been able to accomplish and howcool and inviting and welcoming
and just so interesting howyou've kind of created this

(03:52):
journey.
So we're definitely going todive into a lot of this.
But I'm so excited to talk toyou today and have everyone kind
of listen to where you've cometo and I think just I feel
inspired by what you've beenable to do throughout your life.

Maria (04:04):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, well, no, and also shoutout to all my public affairs
peeps I love, I just love.
You know, every now and then Iget people from my previous life
right in the Air Force, butalso specifically in public
affairs, and it's always so muchfun to catch up.
And you know we'll probablytalk about it, you know,
throughout the podcast thismorning.
But certainly the skill sets weall know about in public

(04:27):
affairs come into play almostdaily.
Well for sure, Certainly dailyin, in in what I do now.
So yes, definitely.

Sara (04:36):
Well, and speaking of kind of your journey, I'd love
to for the audience to learn abit more about your journey from
Air Force Colonel to cow farmerand industry leader.
Could you tell us a little bitmore about your journey from Air
Force colonel to cacao farmerand industry leader?
Could you tell us a little bitmore about yourself and kind of
that journey that brought you tothe cacao?

Maria (04:51):
farm.
Sure, I would say it's probablynot the most linear journey
because a lot of people say,gosh, how do you get from A to Z
?
Basically.
But no, I started out I was anROTC scholarship student in
college for undergraduate, andso I knew that I would be
commissioned into the Air Forceupon graduation.

(05:12):
So right off the bat I wasdoing that and spent 23 years
serving in the Air Force, all ofthose years as a public affairs
officer, all of those years asa public affairs officer.
And you know it's funny becausewhen I did start out in ROTC, I

(05:33):
did not necessarily know that Iwould make the Air Force a
career at that time.
It was honestly something I wasinterested in trying on and
also, of course, for theeducational benefits at the time
.
But what I discovered is thatthe Air Force really kept me
interested and they keptoffering me really great
opportunities, bothprofessionally and educationally

(05:54):
.
But also just, I enjoyed doingit.
I enjoyed the people I workedwith and the mission that we
were doing, and I really enjoyedpublic affairs most of the time
.
As you know, yeah, you don'tlove everything all the time,
but all of it makes us growright and a lot of times we
learn more from the toughertimes than we do from the easier

(06:16):
times.
So, yeah, my career, 23 years.
I started out as a brand-newlieutenant, also in Asia, but I
was in Japan at Yokota Air Baseand then, you know, throughout
my time I was stationed in Texasand Turkey and Italy and the
Pentagon a couple of times, anddown at the space mission there

(06:39):
in Florida, where you are butdown at Cape Canaveral, and then
and then, of course,deployments, as we all have done
, and so a year in Kabul anddifferent locations, the Balkans
and so on.
And then my last assignment, Iwent to what we call the Air War
College for the non-militaryfolks on the podcast, kind of a

(07:01):
year of professional development.
Mine was at Fort McNair inWashington DC and yeah, and that
was let's see, was that thatwas right.
After I got back fromAfghanistan and spent a year
there and that's what I foundthat I was going to be assigned
to Hawaii next.
Well, I was pretty excitedabout that.
It hasn't taken me about 20years hoping to get to Hawaii.

(07:22):
I'd always wanted to bestationed here, but in any case,
yeah, I was excited at thattime, not just to be coming to
Hawaii, which sounded great, butreally for the mission, because
the Pacific mission is justsuch a dynamic and important and
complex one.
And so professionally, that wasvery interesting too, but you

(07:43):
know I'll tell you.
And so professionally, that wasvery interesting too, but you
know, I'll tell you, at thatpoint in my career I had spent
most of my time in DC and thatkind of felt like home.
And so I just kind of assumedthat when I finished my time
here at Pacific Air Forceheadquarters that I would
probably return to the Pentagon.
That would seem like a likelychoice.
That would seem like a likelychoice.

(08:03):
And if you had told me that Iwas going to be getting married
having a baby, by the way, whichI did at the time at 44, and
then also starting a cacao farm,I would have said what you know
, this seems kind of incongruous, but it's exactly what happened
and it all worked out the wayit should have.

(08:26):
And then, just kind of followingthat line, when I first retired
I didn't immediately get intocacao farming.
I was actually working.
I was hired here to be aexecutive vice president for a
local PR agency, which I'm sograteful for because I actually
learned.
It was a wonderful segue for meto really learn about business
here in Hawaii and Honolulu,because it is a unique
environment, and so that wasgreat for that purpose, but also

(08:50):
for me.
It was also a wonderfultransition to learn about really
business because, you know,having spent so much time
working in government, you don'talways have a lot of the same
skills that are required tosucceed in business, like you
know, in terms of budget,specific kinds of budgets, but
contracts and different thingsthat I had not had a lot of

(09:11):
experience with.
So that was all really good forme and then was able to launch,
you know, myself into my ownprivate consulting, which I did
for a number of years, and incommunications for a number of
years in communications, andthen I did a brief sojourn.
At that time my husband and Idecided we of course had decided

(09:31):
to stay in Hawaii.
He was already here and we werelooking to build a house.
This is how it actually allstarted and I said well, if
we're going to build a house, weneed to find some land, and I
really want to be on thewindward side of the island.
If you're familiar with Oahu,you have this very different

(09:51):
topographical kind ofenvironment.
On the windward side it's verylush and tropical, it's the
rainforest and on the other sideit's drier, more like a
Southern California environment.
So I really want to be on thatlush, tropical side.
But we discovered very quicklythat land is very difficult to
find on Oahu and typically theland that is available is zoned
as ag land, which in fact iswhat we ultimately bought.

(10:14):
And so that got us thinking oh,we need to probably think about
something to grow.
And what should that be?
And well, let's make itsomething unique to Hawaii.
You know it's great to growlettuce, but we can do that
anywhere.
So if we're going to be inHawaii, let's make it something
interesting and then, kind offlowing from that was this

(10:34):
concept, and we can talk aboutvision a little bit more later.
But you know just somethingthat people would maybe want to
come visit.
So anyway, that's how we endedup on cacao.
But I did spend a few, a coupleof years actually working.
I was hired by a former publicaffairs officer, colonel Jada
Frank, to come work out at PrattWhitney in Connecticut.

(10:57):
So I did do that.
Well, at that point we hadalready bought the farm but
we're waiting on the trees togrow.

Sara (11:04):
So you know that was kind of part of it all, but so I
mean, first, I love this, thesetypes of stories where it's like
, if you look back, it makessense, but on the journey itself
you're like well, I don'treally know how I got here, but
it's cool, like it worked.
So I'm not going to complain,and I'm embracing it at this
point, so I love those types ofstories.

(11:26):
When it comes to cacao, youbasically had to learn the
farming industry from the groundup, though, right, so going
from Air Force to communications, to cacao, and the farm that
you had didn't originally havethe cacao trees yet, correct.

Maria (11:44):
Yeah, so yeah, so that's a great point, so yeah, so
obviously, up to that point Ihad really spent 25 years really
honing my skills incommunications, public affairs
and all the kinds of aspects ofthat along that communication
spectrum and primarily in thedefense industry.
Right, that was kind of myfocus, my expertise, and in a

(12:05):
large bureaucratic governmentorganization.
So all of these things werekind of my area of interest and
expertise.
And then, to some extent, acorporate environment, but again
, large organizations, stilldefense related for the most
part.
And so, yes, when we had thisidea of, okay, we're going to
buy some land and start a cacaofarm, that suddenly launched us.

(12:29):
By the way, I should mention myhusband's, also retired
military.
So we're very similar in kindof this background, but we
really had to launch ourselvesinto a completely new industry,
obviously agriculture being theprimary one.
But in the end it's actually Ioften call it kind of this
intersection of many differentindustries, many different
sectors.

(12:49):
Of course, there's theagriculture part of it, with the
cacao itself, and oh, by theway, we're also beekeepers, so
we're in that, in apiaryservices, but we also are in
growing turmeric and a lot ofother tropical fruits too.
So, yeah, all of thisagriculture, tropical
agriculture, specifically andthen secondly, really, you know,

(13:10):
in the kind of hospitality andtourism sector, because we give
tours and tastings and we doevents and things.
And then, thirdly, really kindof the culinary industry,
because there's so manycollaborations that we do with
chefs, with sommeliers, when wedo tastings and pairings and so
on.
All of this we've had to reallykind of, you know, learn about

(13:34):
and get to be familiar with.
To the environmental sector too, because we're doing some
forestry projects and we'realways having to work on a lot
of different kind of mitigation,environmental mitigation issues
on the farm itself how do wemitigate for a lot of rainfall,

(13:56):
like we just said last week, forexample, you know, and things
like that.
So, yeah, really kind of goingfrom one sector that we're very
familiar with to thisintersection of many other new
sectors was, yeah, was reallynew and challenging.
And I will say that from thebeginning we were very fortunate

(14:16):
to have mentors and you know, Ithink that's true in any
industry, right that you're in,but for us, going completely
into new sectors, it wasessential and I really credit
those early mentors for us as soimportant to what we were doing
, but also just throwingourselves into it, you know,

(14:37):
very gutlessly, you know, justlearning as much as we possibly
could, learning as much as wepossibly could.
I actually went back and did amaster's in agriculture and I
sought out and got my chocolatesommelier certification, which,
gosh, I never even knew existedbefore that.
And so, yeah, and then myhusband really was day to day

(15:00):
learning about the agriculture,growing the trees, and, as you
said, we bought this piece ofproperty and we call it the
jungle farm because at the timeit had really been for the most
part, kind of neglected forabout 10 years.
It had belonged to kind of amainland owner who had bought it
kind of as an investment, andso it doesn't take long on that

(15:20):
side of the island for things togrow.
And it was a jungle when we gotit, so we had to kind of really
clear it and kind of see whatwas there and then plant all the
cacao, and so, yeah, that wasthe beginning.

Sara (15:34):
The beginning of the cacao farm as it is.
So what would you say?
What role has, like leadershipplayed in when you shape your
career transitions?
And then kind of the visionyou've built for this cacao farm
, which you I'd love to alsoknow about the name as well 21
degrees.

Maria (15:53):
Yeah Well, so I'll start with the name, because that's
easy.
So 21 degrees actually refersto our location here on Oahu
Island.
The latitude for Oahu is justabout 21 degrees north latitude
exactly, and the reason we chosethat for our name is because
cacao is really only grown about20 degrees north or south of

(16:15):
the equator, so essentially theworld's tropical growing zone,
which makes sense.
Right, it's a rainforest tree,but it means then, at 21 degrees
, we're really here at the northpole of that growing zone, and
there's some kind of pros andcons for being located this far
north, but mostly advantages.
And so we thought that would bea good name for us.

(16:39):
Also because cacao is verysimilar to, let's say, wine
grapes, in the sense that it'svery sensitive to its terroir
factors, right?
So all the different climatechanges, temperature changes,
rainfall, all these differentthings will affect the final
flavor of the chocolate, just asyou get with wine grapes right

(16:59):
for wine in different vineyards.
We call this single origin, andso when we talk about the very
specific origin that the cacaois being grown, it really means
that the resulting chocolate hasthis unique flavor profile
associated with it.
So Hawaii is really well suitedfor this because we have so
many unique microclimates in arelatively small space and that

(17:20):
really translates to thiswonderful diversity of flavor
profiles.
And so 21 Degrees Estate, ourfarm, which is only 10 acres,
but you know the trees are verycompact and the orchards it
actually constitutes its ownsingle origin.
It means we have a uniqueflavor profile that you won't
find anywhere else in the world.
Even here on the island, othercacao that's been grown will

(17:43):
have a different flavor profilethan ours.
So yeah, so that's kind of thereason that the location is so
important when it comes to cacaoand craft chocolate
specifically, and so we decidedto go with that for our name.
But the first part of yourquestion was kind of leading up
to kind of what the differentleadership kinds of things.

Sara (18:05):
Yeah, how leadership has kind of played the role into
transitioning from Air Force.

Maria (18:10):
Yeah, well, certainly as you know, and all of us who
served in the military know,leadership is really, you know,
a cornerstone to what we do atevery level, and we do different
things at different levels,certainly, but you know what I
find it's such an interestingquestion and when you had sent
me the flow, I was thinkingabout this, and you know we can

(18:32):
all talk about different aspectsof leadership, but in my
personal experience, in how ithas kind of transferred to what
I'm doing now, I mean, when youthink about how radically
different as I mentioned beforemy Air Force experience was
large organization, governmentorganization, lots of people,
you know.
Big mission, all these things,and now small business, you know

(18:52):
, on a farm, you know sodifferent.
And yet what I find myselfusing almost daily from a
leadership perspective is theability to inspire.
Right, that's kind of auniversal leadership trait, but
it really comes into play whatI'm doing now Because, unlike
you know, if I'm in a corporateenvironment, the team I'm

(19:14):
leading is, you know, is therebecause they believe in okay, in
the mission.
But they're also there becausethis is their career, this is
their job.
In the Air Force, people arethere not just because it's a
job, but because they're thereto serve and they have a
stronger calling to serve theircountry in this capacity, and so
inspiration takes on a littlebit more import in that field

(19:36):
too.
But at the cacao farm we don'thave a huge staff.
A lot of times it's just myhusband and me, and we do have a
few people that come on hereand there for different events.
But what we do have, that wenever could have predicted when
we started this venture 10 yearsago, is this incredible sense
of community, communityvolunteers in particular, who

(19:59):
say you know, raise their headand say, oh, how can I come help
at your farm?
I mean, wow, how amazing isthat?
I mean, and we get that all thetime.
In fact, here's an interestingbut vital aspect to our
operations we have to harvestcacao every two weeks year round
, and I mean it's a major job.

(20:19):
We have a thousand trees andwe're having to harvest by hand
every single fruit, every singlepod that's what we call them
and then crack each one open byhand, remove all the wet seed.
All this is done by hand, and Ican't even fathom what we would
have to pay in labor toaccomplish this, and it's
certainly so much work to do forjust two or three people.

(20:42):
We have 25 to 30 volunteers whocome and harvest for us every
two weeks.
It's really extraordinary, Imean.
We are just blown away by itevery time, and some of these
people have been there from thebeginning.
But the point is, managingvolunteers and inspiring
volunteers is a type ofleadership that really.
I think that really comes intoplay and I know so many of these

(21:06):
people are such amazing nowfriends obviously as well, but
volunteers, people who obviouslyare there, yeah, because
they're having fun and they'reinterested in it, but they
really want to give back to thecommunity, to the environment.
But there's also this realsense of community within the
volunteers themselves.
And so I find, you know, a lotof times I'm having to kind of

(21:29):
lead in inspirational ways.
What you know, come to the farm, be a part of this, be a part
of this community.
So that is where I see kind ofthe leadership in play a lot,
and then also just a lot of justcoordination too, just kind of
leadership and management andcoordination, because we have so

(21:49):
many just disparate missionsand jobs that we're doing on the
farm and kind of pulling it alltogether too.
Yeah.

Sara (21:55):
And I mean.
It's a similar mindset, itseems, from the Air Force to
farming.
It's inspiring people to cometogether to do one mission or a
similar mission and see theaccomplishment.
I love how you just translatedthat, though, because it's not
something once you realized whatneeded to happen, but to know

(22:19):
that all these people arewilling to help, support you and
what your mission is.
I think that's incredible, andit must be really fun for them.

Maria (22:29):
Well, that's yeah, we're fortunate in that.
It's like again, if we were alettuce farm, I don't know that
we'd have that many volunteers,but maybe we would.
I don't know, hawaii is kind ofa unique place that way.
But you know, the other thing Ishould probably mention kind of
under this topic too, is that.
So we started the farm, like Isaid, 10 years ago.
It took about three to fouryears just to kind of get the

(22:49):
trees growing Right.
So we started, we kind of setout with this vision.
We said we're going to kind ofdivide this into kind of three,
three phases.
The first stage is theagriculture.
Let's get the trees in theground, let's get the land
prepped and get the trees in theground, because it's going to
take a while.
We didn't even know Again,first time.
Cacao farmers were told it'sgoing to take.
It could take three to fiveyears to get the first fruit.

(23:10):
As it turns out, this area,kahalu, where our farm is
located, is uniquely suited forcacao.
Yay, that's great.
Which meant we were gettingfruit as early as 18 months,
which was much, much earlierthan we anticipated, which then
kind of prompted us to get intoproduction much sooner than we
planned, which meant the actualproduction of cacao into

(23:31):
chocolate, which then promptedus to get into phase two, which
was the retail operation of whatwe're doing.
We wanted to do the full valuechain of you know, cacao into
actual retail craft chocolatebars.
And like any agriculturaloperation, especially small
family farms across the US, itcan be really challenging, right

(23:51):
?
Because a lot of times farmersare only getting kind of pennies
on the dollar of what they'reselling, whether it's milk or,
you know, berries or apples orwhatever it is.
And so in the case of cocoabeans, in an expensive place
like Hawaii, if you're justselling cocoa beans you're
probably not going to be able tobreak even.
And so if we could kind of getinto production and then make

(24:12):
the chocolate and then sell thechocolate bars at the farm and
have a store and all of that,well, okay, then we could
probably.
You know that would be moreadvantageous, you know,
economically it'd be moreprofitable to do that.
So that meant we had tosuddenly get chocolate makers
and have chocolate made, andthen you have to do packaging
and then you have to do, youknow, marketing and all the

(24:34):
things that come with that.
So we were suddenly propelledinto phase two, which was but
we're still doing phase one allthe agriculture, and now we're
doing phase two.
And phase three, by the way,was to build our house, which we
, by the way, we've never evengotten to that point yet.
So, because we've been so busywith all these other phases in
between.
But what came along prettyquickly, even while we were in

(24:54):
phase two, was that we peoplewere showing interest in coming
to visit the farm and wanted todo a tour of the farm, and we
were giving all these kind ofjust like ad hoc tours all the
time.
And finally we said let's juststart giving tours.
We don't feel like we're ahundred percent ready, but I
don't think we ever will be, solet's just get started.
So we started doing tours andwe've been doing tours now for

(25:16):
at least six years and it's youknow, it's been a steady state
thing.
And then that became a part ofour business model because
essentially, if people werecoming to the farm already to
give a tour, then a lot of timesthey wanted to purchase
chocolate at the end.
So now we had a kind of amarket for our retail.
So, anyway, all that kind ofstarted to happen.
And then people wanted to starthaving events at the farm and

(25:37):
like, could I do my weddingthere to happen?
And then people wanted to starthaving events at the farm and
like, could I do my weddingthere or could I, you know this
and that?
So we started to do farm totable dinners, and so people
could you know?
So then we started to getgetting into all of that as well
.
So I guess where I'm going withthis is that it really gets
down to the people.
And then this is I'm going tokind of touch back onto
leadership again too.
But the people who come to ourfarm are remarkable people, like

(25:59):
yourself, by the way.
But no, really we get peoplefrom all over the world, but
certainly all across the UnitedStates.
And, let's face it, the peoplewho typically want to come on a
farm tour are interested.
First of all, they likechocolate, probably, but they're
also interested usually in foodand culinary and environment
and how things are made and howthings are produced, and so all

(26:21):
these kinds of people come here.
And in the beginning most of thepeople who came on our tours
were locals who were just reallycurious.
A lot of local people live herein Hawaii, don't even know that
cacao is grown here.
So they were interested and wewould get to know people and
find out what their backgroundsare.
And a lot of those early peoplewho came on our tours are now

(26:42):
regular people who volunteer atour farm, that work at our farm,
people who are that are likeservers at our culinary events,
people who are musicians at ourevents.
Now, you know, it's we kind ofjoke that we recruit all of our
people from our tours and we doI that we recruit all of our
people from our tours and we doI mean we actually do and it's
great because it's really just abig family.

(27:04):
We say ohana here in Hawaii, butit's just a really great ohana
that way, and it kind of getsdown to you know, whatever
environment you're in, right,you get to know the people that
you're working with and find outwhat they're passionate about,
what their skills are, and thenreally allow them to exercise
those skills.

(27:24):
And I think that's a big partof leadership right is to
understand who your people are,what their skills are and let
them shine, let them take overand especially in the areas that
I'm not, you know, well-suitedin.
I know what those areas are,you know.
Like, if I can find people whohave those skills, then I want
them on my team and I want tolet them shine.

(27:46):
So we do that all the time atthe farm and we couldn't do what
we do without them For sure.

Sara (27:52):
That's really cool and believe me, if I was anywhere
close to the line.

Maria (27:55):
I would definitely go down there.
We would find a role for you,Sarah.

Sara (27:57):
No doubt about it.
I mean for sure, because I Ithink we were figuring during
the tour you show how you kindof harvest and what it looks
like.
Yeah, I mean a little snippetof it and it was.
It's so interesting to imaginethe massiveness of starting to
plant, like first clearing thefarm and then planting the trees

(28:20):
, and then realizing thatthey're coming on so fast that
you're like, okay, we'll have todo all the other steps along
the way.
So I mean, from what I'm hearing, it sounds like the moral of
the story is just get started.
It's kind of like that movieRemember what's the movie?

Maria (28:37):
If you build it, they will come, come.
What was the one with kevin,the baseball movie?
I can't think of it.
You know, yes, field of dreams,we always kind of joke if you
build it, they will come.
Um, it's kind of like that and,and it was, it was a bit.
We always kind of laugh, we'reabout our own naivete about, oh,
let's just start a cacao farm,you know, because neither of us
were tropical farmers rightbefore that.
Um, but I'll tell you, you know, anyone who served in the

(28:59):
military knows, you know, a lotof it is just a lot of.
It's just grit and hard work,right, you just like roll up
your sleeves and get to it andyou find your mentors and you
learn and you study.
Right, that's what we all didLots of training, lots of
education, but also just getdown to it.
And so a lot of it right iswhat is it?
What percentage of perspiration, you know, and 5% inspiration,

(29:20):
whatever the you know theexpression is.
But yeah, that's a big part ofit for sure, and you know.
And so we didn't really knowwhat to expect in the beginning.
But we said, well, we're justgoing to jump in and we're just
going to do it and we're goingto apply everything we know to
it.
And those skill sets actually,you know, have been good for us.
And you know, looking back on it, we sometimes joke and said we

(29:43):
wanted to find, we wanted togrow something that was
interesting and something thatpeople would want to come and
see and something that could,but not too much work, right.
Well, we got most of it right,but the not too much work part.
We didn't probably get thatcompletely right, but that's
okay.
We, we love what we do and andnow it's funny.
So my husband again, who had nofarming background whatsoever,

(30:03):
although he was quite a goodgardener, I will say, um, he had
no farming background,certainly, and um, now he
actually is a is a mentor toother cacao farmers in hawaii
now and and regularly runs kindof workshops and things for them
.
But yeah, so it's.
Yeah, we, we call it train thetrainer, right, and we're always
like kind of doing those thosekinds of things and giving back

(30:23):
because we had some greatmentors at the beginning.

Sara (30:27):
That's amazing.
I'd love to go back to your AirForce career.
Yeah, cause you.
I mean, we're talking a lotabout the cacao farm, which is
super interesting and inspiring,but you also had a really
interesting career too.
It sounds like a lot of yourleadership skills and the
groundwork and the foundationfor what you've built today was

(30:48):
built also in your time in theair force.
If you look at your LinkedInjust the top line, it's like you
led communication effortsacross Asia Pacific, the
Pentagon and NATO, which are allreally high level.
Yeah, so what would you say?
Some of the most pivotalmoments in your military career?
Kind of deep to that leadershipstyle.

Maria (31:07):
Yeah, no, I will say you know, one of the things I love
so much about my, my personalmilitary career but I just I
think it's such a greatexperience for anyone who served
for any period of time reallyis that there's so much
opportunity, and for me I reallyenjoyed the fact that there was
.
Even though I stayed in publicaffairs throughout my 23 years,

(31:30):
there was so much diversity inthat career, so many different
levels, that you can learn atfrom what we call a base level,
right, kind of a more tacticallevel, all the way up to these
more strategic levels whereyou're getting into
communication, you know, at thecountry level right, united
States level or NATO in the caseof our allies, and different
things, and then in between, andso from a communication

(31:51):
standpoint, you can really learnso many different aspects of
communication, but also at allthese different levels and
different audiences and so on,and so for me that was what was
amazing, and you're doing it ata pretty young age too.
You know, I always see themilitary as one of those
organizations where it givesyoung officers in this case, but

(32:12):
young people across the board,even in the enlisted corps a lot
of leadership responsibilityearly on and you know you grow
from that and I think for methat was good.
So, gosh, to be able toidentify a few pivotal things.
That's going to be kind of hardbecause there were so many good
ones, but I'll see what I cando.
You know so my career I came inin 1990 and retired in 2013.

(32:39):
I came in in 1990 and retiredin 2013.
So that was kind of I give thosekind of right and left brackets
, because there was kind of thepre-9-11 and then the post-9-11.
And so one of the things thatwas interesting, right before
9-11, I was at the Pentagon, atthe Air Force headquarters, and

(32:59):
so our focus then was quitedifferent.
Right, it was before the war onterrorism and everything, and
actually at that point it wasreally from a communications
standpoint, telling the Americanpeople why you need an Air
Force, you know, kind of areminder, why do we need an Air
Force, why do you need America'sAir Force.
And so we did a lot of reallykind of creative, kind of
marketing kinds of things atthat time which ultimately were

(33:20):
interesting for me and I learneda lot in that we did things
like, you know, flying the Hicko, the Whale, back to Iceland,
you know kind of these big PR,these big publicity kinds of
things that would hopefully puta spotlight on the Air Force and
its capabilities and why wewould need them in wartime and
different airframes and so on.
And you know who would knowthat just a couple of years

(33:44):
later, in fact, you know wewould need all these airframes
for these different, you knownational security purposes.
So that was a big moment for me.
But, yeah, you know, I would sayprobably the most pivotal
experience for me really was mytime in NATO in Kabul.

(34:09):
For that year I kind of used tosay that that was it was NATO,
isaf, so obviously the missionin Afghanistan at the time
global war on terrorism, but forme it was I often say it was
kind of really my comprehensives, if you will, for military
communications, because I ran anoffice there, Gosh, I think we

(34:31):
had probably 30 people and theywere, they came from gosh more
than 22 countries and somepeople just had like a token
representative that didn't evenknow public affairs, but they
were there because I representPoland or something.
And then and then we but we hadan incredible team and we had a
really tough job to do.
It was the first year that the,that the ISAF, that the NATO

(34:52):
was leading the mission inAfghanistan, and this was in
2007 and 2008.
And you know, we it was verydynamic, there was a lot
happening and it was a lot of.
There was loss of life, therewas loss of equipment, there
were casualties here and there,and you know these are made for
very, sometimes very difficultright kinds of communication

(35:19):
tasks and decisions.
But I did the daily pressconference there and so kind of
have to answer for all those.
But I also had to really learnnot only to lead my own team but
to really work with so manydifferent, disparate
organizations.
I had a headquarters inBrussels but of course I was US

(35:42):
and so I kind of still had mydotted line back to DC and then
at the same time, you know, Iwas having to deconflict all the
time with NGOs in the city andthen the government of
Afghanistan and then all thedifferent countries you know
that were represented there inNATO, and so all these people
have agendas and all thesepeople have priorities and don't

(36:03):
always get along, and so from acommunication standpoint it's
very hard sometimes tode-conflict all of that and, to
you know, to get that right.
And so for me it was really anexercise in leadership many
times, and in diplomacy as well,and so that was, I think,
probably most pivotal for methat year.

Sara (36:26):
So I'm just imagining I have no idea what the setup is
like, but I'm just imagining therepresentatives of 22 countries
in like cubicles of some sortor some desks like that.
You must have seen so manyvarieties of different cultures
and how people work and who theywere.
I mean, we have different evenjust in a team of like four

(36:47):
people in the United States.
Every person is so different.
How was it like leading peoplefrom different countries, from
different cultures, from all thethings.

Maria (36:57):
It was kind of crazy actually.
I mean, first I had to get toknow who are these people like,
what skills do they have?
And, like I said, some peoplewere phenomenal.
Of course, you know, my US teamwas great, and then we had
Australians in UK and Iceland, Imean everyone.
Like we had so many people andmany of them were just terrific.
Others, like I said, basicallyI think, just got assigned go
sit over there in that officebecause we have to represent

(37:17):
from our country and they don'tknow a thing about what we're
doing, and so, you know, I justhad to kind of make sure we
could find something for them todo.
But by and large, we had reallygreat people.
But, yeah, very differentphilosophies on how we conduct
communications too, and, and youknow, we have very distinct
kinds of ways to do publicaffairs.
In our country, you know thatis based in law too, that it's

(37:39):
independent from, say,information operations or
psychological operations, but inother countries not, so A lot
of times it means the same thing, and so I had a lot of people
on my staff who you know wereready to jump in with all kinds
of psyops and other things thatwe really, you know, had to kind
of walk a fine line on butstill respect what they came to
the table with too.
So that was a challenge.

(37:59):
But I will say the other thingis as a spokesperson, cause that
was my other role.
So I led the office and workedfor the four star, obviously in
communications, but, but myother role is as a spokesperson.
I was the first femalespokesperson for ISAF at the
time and it was kind of kind ofinteresting because in the
beginning not only do we haveall the foreign press of the BBC
and all the major internationalpress, but we had a lot of the

(38:22):
local Afghan press corps theretoo and for them I think this
was a little startling for themin the beginning because they
didn't really know if they couldask me a question or if they
should ask me a question, andthey were a little intimidated
in the beginning.
They got so they weren'tintimidated after a while, but
in the beginning it was a littlebit more challenging.

(38:43):
And then I started to givejoint press conferences with my
Afghan counterpart too, whichwas also interesting because
there were different agendas, alot between what they were
trying to communicate and whatwe were, and we had to make sure
we were on the same page, whichwe were not always on the same
page, so yeah.
So I think, yeah, the culturalpiece was also, from an

(39:04):
intercultural communicationstandpoint, very challenging,
but also it was also veryrewarding on a lot of levels too
.
You really could get so manyamazing insights into things you
never had really looked at thatway before.
So, yeah, so I think it wasgreat.
And I will say too, I had acouple of different deputies at
the time, a Canadian and acouple of US deputies, who were

(39:26):
phenomenal.
I could not have done any of itwithout them Because, once
again, I do believe leadershipis a lot about so much capacity.
But I also did the things thatI was good at.
And then I had wonderfuldeputies who could take care of
the things I was not as good atand just did it brilliantly.

(39:49):
And, yeah, and so you know, Ithink a good leader is able to
really delegate those things out, and that comes with
understanding and thatself-knowledge of what your own
skills are Right and then what,what really knowing your too,
like you know, and what they'regood at.
So no-transcript.

(40:26):
I mean there was just pressureacross the board.
It was pressure on just everyday.
I mean, you know just thepressure too of just being in in
wartime, right, and and justgosh, oh gosh, what's happening
now.
It's so dynamic.
You know there's a, there'stroops in contact, there's
troops in contact, there's youknow there's been another IED
explosion and we don't yet knowwhat's happened, and and so
constantly, you know, just, itwas yeah, and that was for a
year, so it was a lot ofpressure and so you know where

(40:49):
you wouldn't necessarily say, oh, that was my best experience in
the Air Force.
It's that's not the way todescribe it, I think, but it was
probably in many ways.
Well, certainly, to answer yourquestion about a pivotal
experience, definitely, but alsoit was rewarding on a lot of
levels, certainly.
Just, yeah, I mean not onlyprofessionally and I learned so
much from it, but I also reallyforged these deep connections

(41:13):
with people whom I work with andjust the experience in general.

Sara (41:19):
So so kind of.
I mean, we talked about mainlyyour NATO, because it was very
pivotal, but how would you sayyour leadership approach?
Uh, evolved during your AirForce career and like your
leadership style, probably.
Um, and how does that show uptoday?

Maria (41:34):
Well.
So I think in a way, yeah, itdid kind of prepare me well for
the front, because, you know, weall do have different styles
and and my style was always verypeople-oriented it was always
very much kind of like I'vealluded to before understanding
what their strengths are andtrying to really promote not so
much literally, but promotethose skills in people so that

(41:58):
they could really do their, dotheir best work and and succeed.
And so I was.
I always believed a lot indelegating and and giving people
the opportunity to take thetake the reins and go with it.
And, as I said, that kind ofwas a good trans.
It transferred well to what Ido now, because now with

(42:20):
volunteers they're, you know,they're not there because you're
paying them, they're therebecause they want to be there
and because they're inspired insome way to be there.
And so I feel like thatleadership style really prepared
me for kind of the kind of workthat I do today, as opposed to,
let's say, kind of a moreauthoritarian style which would
not do well with volunteers orwith what I'm doing today.

(42:43):
So, and a big part of that toois making sure that your team
has the resources they needright, that they have the
training and the education to dotheir jobs well and so that
they feel comfortable andconfident in what they're doing.
And so that was always veryimportant to me while I was in
the Air Force to make sure thatthe team had the resources that

(43:06):
they needed and that they feltso they could feel, like I said,
comfortable and confident inwhat they were doing.
And that's true with what we doon the farm now too.
And yeah, I would say that wasprobably for me how it evolved
more, and I was more comfortablewith that kind of leadership
style than kind of a moreauthoritarian one.

Sara (43:27):
And I mean I remember when I was in Korea and we would
listen in on our PA calls.
And I remember the teamenjoying to work with you and
for you, because you were verynot like hands off to the point
where you just kind of let themrun, but you empowered them to
the point where they were ableto get their job done, but they

(43:48):
also had the freedom to makedecisions that were relevant and
you could see that from.
I mean, how far away is Korea?

Maria (43:57):
from Hawaii.

Sara (43:59):
It's pretty far, um.
So we, we felt that even at ourlevel.
So it's it was cool to see thatand I remember you coming to
visit and the way that you saideveryone at ease, cause we part
of the visit was you actually,um, toured with some of our
Korean nationals and got to meetsome of the local population

(44:19):
and had lunch and dinner.
Um, and it was just interestingto see how you were.
You very much went with theflow, which I was always
impressed with, cause I was likethis little first Lieutenant.
I was like, oh my gosh, this ismy first Colonel visit and I
have no idea what I'm doing.
Um, and it was just very easy,uh, to work with you and you
going with the flow and seeinghow everyone received you and

(44:42):
how you received everyone elsewas it?

Maria (44:45):
was amazing to see.

Sara (44:46):
I think that's a skill that not many people have to
empower people in that way, butalso Well, thank you, I know
that's.

Maria (44:52):
That's great to hear.
I, you know, I believe that therole of a leader I believe that
now too, I mean in anythingI've done throughout my life is
is that a leader sets the visionright.
And I had a lot of wonderfulmentors in the Air Force, too
many leaders who would say to meyou know, Maria, you only have
so many hours in the day andthey get filled up very, very

(45:13):
quickly.
But the more senior you become,the more important it is to
really make sure you have carvedout some white space in your
calendar to just think andcreate the vision, Because
everyone's looking at the leaderto lead them.
Everyone's busy, Everyone's gota million jobs to do, a million

(45:34):
tasks to do, but we got to makesure that we have a vision for
where we're going and thatresponsibility falls on the
leader.
The leader needs to make surethat he or she is allowing the
time in their day, in theirresponsibilities, to do that.
And that always really stuckwith me and was important for me
is to say, okay, here's whatour vision is, here's what we're

(45:56):
looking to do, but then let allthese amazing, talented people
go out there and do it, and letall these amazing talented
people go out there and do it.
And I'm always, you know, Ibelieve very strongly in the
power of listening, listening topeople and understanding where
they're coming from.
But also, boy, you know, I'mnot going to be so egotistical
as to say I have all the ideasand in fact, on the contrary,

(46:18):
it's remarkable how many greatideas people have if you
actually will listen.
And there's always so manydifferent ways to do things, and
I like to make sure that teamsI'm working with are feeling
comfortable enough to give methose ideas.
And especially you mentioned,like you know, you were in Korea
when I was at HeadquartersPacific.

(46:38):
Obviously, we had peopledownrange in lots of locations,
very different locations, right,Korea and Japan and Guam and
Alaska and Hawaii.
I mean, what do these thingsall have in common?
Just that our headquarters,yeah, and so missions were
different, people were different, cultures were different, and
so it's you know, I need youknow, to know what's happening

(47:00):
there on the ground.
You all are in the bestposition to tell us what, what,
what your ideas are and what thechallenges are.
I can give you the vision onwhat we need to be doing in
terms of the overall mission andso on, but I need, I really
want those ideas, so yeah, so Ithink that definitely has
informed you know my leadershipstyle, certainly yeah.

Sara (47:19):
Looking back on.
I mean, we talked a little bitabout NATO and your PAC-AFTIME
and your leadership style andhow you provided vision and saw
the vision and empowered people.
So those are some leadershiplessons that you talked about
today.
But what do you think were someof the most important
leadership lessons that you tookfrom your Air Force career into

(47:39):
what you're doing today and tothe entrepreneurial yeah.

Maria (47:42):
So again, I would say, probably at the very beginning,
it would be have the vision,develop the vision for the
organization or, in this case,the team, because it's much
smaller level here at the farm,but nevertheless very important.
We have to have a vision onwhere we're going and we're
constantly reassessing that,like, okay, tweaking it here and
there.
It's this where do we want tobe in five years, 10 years, what

(48:09):
things are working and notworking as well?
But where do we want to befirst and foremost?
Who are we and what do we wantto stand for?
What is the legacy, in thiscase, of the farm?
But I think having the vision isprobably the most important
thing and the thing that peopleexpect out of a leader, and I
think that's where you have toreally come through on that.
But I also think you know, youknow we learned this in the Air
Force and in all of ourleadership courses but every
leader is also a follower insome capacity too, right, and

(48:31):
certainly in a largeorganization there's always
going to be someone that'sprobably above you Not so much
at the farm, I don't know.
Still there is, it's maybe morelateral but learn, you need to
be listening, listening,listening learning from those
around you and listening to yourteam too.
Like I kind of alluded toearlier, there's a lot that can
be learned, you know, from thepeople who work for you too, and

(48:54):
so I think that is a big partof it to be a good follower and
listener too, and so you canadapt.
And that's another big piece ofit too is adaptability and
being able to really put yourfinger on the pulse of the
organization and what's workingand what's not.
So many people, I think, can betone deaf.
They're so focused on missionand so focused on an objective

(49:16):
that they're not really in tunewith what's happening with the
team and why things may not beworking in that direction.
And maybe there's another waythat we need to adapt.
Maybe it's a training issue,maybe it's resources, but maybe
we're not aligning properly withwhat our team's ability is to

(49:38):
what we're trying to accomplish.
So I think adaptability is alsoimportant.
Yeah, and then, as I saidbefore, mentors are so great too
, at every level.
I don't care who you are, Idon't care if you're the leader
of your organization.
You still need mentors, andespecially if you're going to be
going into new, new areas,whether it's new cultures, new
fields or, in my case, newsectors.

(50:00):
You need to really have peoplewho can be kind of those mentors
to you and those advisors and,most importantly, as a leader,
then you need to be willing tobe a mentor and an advisor as
well, because that's part of thedeal right.

Sara (50:14):
Yeah, it seems like what you're saying also is to be very
much in receive mode a lot ofthe time Talked about listening,
talked about mentoring,receiving the information of the
team that you're leading andproviding, just open to having
that information.

Maria (50:31):
and, yeah, especially in complex situations, and most of
the situations are, I mean, um,there's a lot you can learn, um,
as a leader.
Listen, if you're in, if you'rein a multi or intercultural
kind of environment, boy, Ireally need to learn from the
people who are from that culture.
Right, I need to reallyunderstand that.
I need to listen to that.

(50:51):
But, it's true, even in anintergenerational kind of
context too, right, like youknow, I need to listen to the
younger generation or the oldergeneration or whoever it is
that's in there.
I need to kind of understandtheir perspectives too, because
I can't be everything Right, Ican't know everything, and this

(51:12):
is how, this is how we learn andwe can lead much better that
way too.
So, yeah, definitely I don'tthink there's enough listening.
That goes on in general, but Ithink that's probably one of the
most valuable attributes we canhave as leaders.

Sara (51:26):
Definitely, definitely.
So, based on your story, whichI again will say like seems like
the coolest thing, makes nosense, but I think that is
sometimes the best story of likehow you get to where you are
today and all of the journey so,as people are navigating,
different journeys, whether it'sa career journey or they decide

(51:48):
to go out on an entrepreneurialjourney.
What advice would you give tothose people?

Maria (51:54):
Yeah, so you know if you're going to, if you're going
to take a leap on anything,it's always it is a leap and you
know, don't, don't be tooafraid to do it and then never
going to be in the case ofentrepreneurial things.
So there's never going to bethe right time.
You're never going to say, ohyeah, I'm 100% ready to do this
right now.
This is the time that will.
If you're waiting for that dayto happen, it will never come, I

(52:15):
can assure you.
You just need to kind of jumpoff and do it.
But I would say that you know,just understand, understand who
you are and what's important toyou and what your skills are.
And don't limit yourself.
Too many people, I think and Iknow a lot of military people
say, well, gosh, I don't know,like, I'm not sure I have the
skill sets to go and dosomething because you know I did

(52:36):
such and such in the Air Forceor maybe in a corporate
environment or something.
But don't limit yourself tomaybe what, specifically, what
specific thing you did, becauseyou do have more broad skill
sets that you're maybe notthinking about.
Maybe it's working with people,maybe it's you know, a
particular work ethic, it'sorganization, it's planning,
it's whatever.
Those are your real skill sets,you know, and those are

(52:58):
transferable to just aboutanything that you might be
interested in doing, and sodon't cut yourself short on what
you're capable of doing.
But then really also, I think atrap that a lot of people fall
into is well, you know, I was acareer public affairs officer,
so I guess all I can really dois communications or something.
Well, of course, you can docommunications, and you're

(53:20):
probably really good at it, andthat's great, but that's not all
that.
You can do communications, andyou're probably really good at
it, and that's great, but that'snot all that you can do.
And don't feel that justbecause you're good at one thing
, that that's the only thing youshould do.
There may be other things thatyou're well suited in and, more
importantly, there may be otherthings that you would actually
prefer to do at a differentstage in your life.
You know, I think that life isa journey, too right, and we

(53:43):
constantly are adapting andevolving as individuals and as
leaders too, but just asindividuals, and there's
different things that appeal tous at different points, and
certainly that's the case for me.
I use all kinds of communicationskills in my job every day, as
you probably saw.
I mean, I feel like I give alittle press briefing every
single time I give a tour, but Ialso do I also do a lot of

(54:06):
event uh planning and organizingand I'm constantly um, uh doing
marketing and different thingslike that too, kind of at the
small business level.
Um, certainly, but um, but Ireally I'm passionate about I, I
I'm very passionate aboutsustainability and I love, I
love agriculture, I love tocreate something that didn't
exist before and I have found Ilove kind of organizing

(54:31):
community and bringing communitytogether, and so all of these
kind of passions and interestsof mine really kind of come
together in what I'm doing now.
So it's really the perfectthing for me at this point in my
life.
That being said, I loved mytime in the Air Force, loved
what I did, and so glad I hadthat as well.
So I think it all comestogether and you just have to be

(54:56):
clear on who you are, whatinterests you, what you're good
at, and then go out and find it,and if you can't find it, then
you can create it.

Sara (55:05):
I love that and I will definitely highlight this,
because I feel like there's afew of me and my peers that are
kind of going through thismoment, and so it's one of those
where it's like, yes, we wantto feel inspired, but, you're
right, there is no right time todo anything and, especially
like the past five, six, sevenyears, it feels like the world's
all over the place, and so yeah, and you know, that's the thing

(55:27):
you know, where there isturbulence, there is opportunity
too.

Maria (55:30):
Right, that's?
That's very much a truism, andI think that, yeah, you, just
you have to be open topossibility too.
You know, you just have to kindof again oh well, let's, we're
going to buy some land.
Okay, it's ag land.
Well, should we grow something?
Well, let's grow something.
What should it be?
Okay, it'll be this.
And then we could never haveimagined, really, that it would
have evolved into what it is now.

(55:50):
I mean, now, not only are we,we actually just won the 2024
Craft Chocolate InternationalCraft Chocolate competition last
year.
I mean, gosh, here's people wedidn't even know.
Yeah, thank you, but you know,so we're making kind of this
world-class chocolate fromworld-class cacao, you know, in
10 years.
But at the same time, we'redoing all these really fun
collaborations with differentculinary people and just, yeah,

(56:16):
we're doing all kinds ofeducational tours and we have so
many interesting groups thatcome and different things.
And I think you just have to beopen.
The point is really just beopen to different opportunities.
And over the years, differentopportunities have come our way
and some we have done and somewe haven't.
Or we've done some and said, ohyeah, that was fun, but I don't
think we want to keep doing it.
So you know you evolve, but yougot to be open to them and give

(56:39):
them a try and assess themagainst your vision and your
goals Right For to them.
And give them a try and assessthem against your vision and
your goals right For the forwhatever it is that you're doing
and yeah, I think there's.
Yeah, just be open topossibility for sure.

Sara (56:52):
And so, speaking of being open to possibility, what is
the future for 21 Degree Estateand what's your kind of vision?

Maria (57:01):
Yeah, well, you know.
So now that we've kind ofmatured into, you know, a steady
agricultural operation and wehave a pretty steady kind of
agritourism business going aswell, now we've been able to
kind of settle back and say, ok,what's, what's next, what do we
see as kind of his legacy?
And there are a couple ofthings along those lines because

(57:21):
, you know, at some point I'mguessing we're going to retire.
I don't know, maybe we'll neverretire.
I think that's probably morelikely because we're kind of
just keep doing new things andthat's fine, that's good, it
keeps us going.
But I think when we lookforward there are a couple of
areas.
One is we started a big we callit Malama Ka'aina, which in

(57:42):
Hawaiian stands for Caring forthe Land or Sustainability
Project At the upper part of theproperty.
It's mostly a forestry kind ofproject, but we started a
microforest of koa trees, whichis a type of tree that's native
to Hawaii.
It is very important to Hawaiiand Hawaiians, but it's a
Harvard legacy tree.
I mean, this is going to.

(58:03):
This forest is not for thisgeneration, it's for my son's
generation and the nextgeneration, and that's important
, it's important for Hawaii,it's also important just for
legacy and sustainability, sothat kind of falls into that
category.
But the other thing that wehave really learned over the 10
years is that this farm yes, wegrow cacao, yes, we make

(58:24):
chocolate, yes, we do differentevents but it's this beautiful
place and space and people comethere and say, wow, I feel the
mana in this place, and that'sthe Hawaiian word for kind of
power from the earth, andthere's a power in the beauty
and the sustenance that landprovides anywhere, of course,
but here in Hawaii that'simportant.

(58:45):
And so what we've learned isthat I think one of the reasons
we have so many volunteers andpeople who come is that they
love the power and the beauty ofthe place and the space and so
we feel like we are the stewardsof this special place and space
and I think, looking forward, Iwant to do more with this
aspect of it and create kind ofa wellness center.

(59:05):
We do a lot of wellness eventsanyway, where we do kind of the
goat yoga, but we do wellnessworkshops and things that are
related to being in nature andthe importance of, you know,
blue zones and all thesedifferent things where it's
important to volunteer, it'simportant to be in nature, to
create, to give back, to bereciprocal with the land and I
think that's probably the areathat I want to go into more as

(59:29):
we go forward a place and spacewhere people come and develop
all of those things.
So, yeah, I'm excited aboutthat prospect and we're working
with a lot of great, amazinghumans who, I think, want to
contribute and be part of that.

Sara (59:45):
So, yeah, and I can totally see that from visiting
the farm, because there you dofeel like a power of some sort,
like I.
It was also a sense of peacetoo, when it was just there's a
lot of nature and a lot ofdifferent things that I don't
know if it's just because I'mused to being in the city, which
probably is, uh, but justseeing what's possible, um, was

(01:00:10):
also something that really wasinspiring and, uh, I, I do again
, I wish I wasn't so far awaybecause I'd love to help out and
it was really great tour, um,and also I brought the chocolate
back and and a bunch of myfriends had it, and they have
said that it's the bestchocolate I've ever had it was.

(01:00:30):
I think it was the one that hadthe hibiscus in it, or there was
like oh the elderflower, I betthe elderflower yeah.
Nice, yep, yep.
And they were like what is this?
And it was gone.

Maria (01:00:39):
Yeah, well, I love to hear that, and on our tours, you
know, we get a lot of peoplewho say, hey, just to let you
know, I was not a dark chocolatefan before, but now I am,
because there's no bitterness tothis and so we love to hear
that.
I mean, I'm in that category.
I mean, gosh, here I am thecacao farmer now.

(01:01:01):
But I will say and you knowwhat I've almost forgotten here
I am just chatting away on allthese topics.
The other big thing that we'reworking on now is actually we've
started a new line calledLatitude 21.
And it's using plants from thefarm, plant-based kind of beauty
products like skin oils anddifferent things, and based on a

(01:01:24):
lot of the Hawaiian kind, ofthe old Hawaiian recipes and
things too, which is reallyexciting, and so that's another
thing that we're going to in thefuture.
But again, that really ties inkind of with this wellness piece
that we're talking about, rightto wellness and beauty and
healing and all of these thingstoo.
So, yeah, so excited about thatas well.

Sara (01:01:38):
Well, you're also embracing the culture of where
you're at, embracing what all ofthat kind of brings to the
table, and I mean speaking moreto that openness that you had
like.
Just embracing the culture andyeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Where can our listeners findout more information?

Maria (01:01:57):
Oh well, if anyone's coming to Oahu, you've got to
come visit us.
We're on the windward side, butwe have a website,
21degreesofstatecom, and we'reon social as well, and so, yeah,
come check us out.
And if you do come here, youknow you could book a tour or
just come by.
We always have the farm storeavailable so you can always come
and check out the chocolate andhoney and look around.

Sara (01:02:17):
And it really is some of the best chocolate I've ever had
, so highly recommend.
And then, just to kind of closeout the conversation, just
asking for one final leadershipinsight.
And if you could leave ourlisteners with one leadership
principle that's guided you,what would it be?

Maria (01:02:35):
I would say again be a visionary for the team, set the
vision.

Sara (01:02:40):
I love that.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
I really appreciate it.
I hope that everyone goes tovisit your farm in Hawaii and I
wish you all the best at thefarm with the future with all
the animals.
Thank you so much, sarah, greattalking with you today.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Lead Into it.
If you enjoyed this episode, itwould mean a lot to me if you

(01:03:01):
would leave a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify to help
future listeners.
If you want to learn more aboutthe podcast or me, go to
leadintoitco.
That's leadintoitco.
Thanks again.