May 20, 2025 • 50 mins
What makes a leader worth following?
In this episode, retired General Mike Minihan, former commander of Air Mobility Command, shares the leadership philosophy that shaped his 35-year Air Force career, centered on "OLA": Ownership, Leadership, and Attitude.
From his early days as a lieutenant to leading 110,000 airmen, General Minihan returns to one powerful truth: credibility starts with doing your job—and doing it well. He also reflects on the 2023 memo that made headlines, how it shaped perceptions, and what it revealed about his leadership style. Through it all, his clarity of purpose and commitment to readiness shine through.
Perhaps most striking is his view on "worthiness"—a question he asked himself often: Do I deserve this level of trust? That mindset drove him to lead with both conviction and care.
If you're in any kind of leadership role, this conversation is a must-listen.
And don’t miss part two next week, where we dig into mental health, legacy, and the human side of command.
Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.
Excited to be with you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to episode 51 of the Lead Intuit
podcast.
Welcome to Lead Intuit, thepodcast that explores what it
really takes to lead withcourage, clarity and commitment.
I'm your host, sarah Greco, andtoday I am honored to bring you
a powerful two-partconversation with a leader whose
(00:22):
voice, vision and vulnerabilityhave shaped the Air Force and
inspired leaders around theworld.
In this two-part special, I sitdown with retired General Mike
Minahan, former commander of theAir Mobility Command, to talk
about leadership at the highestlevels.
In part one, we dig intoGeneral Minahan's leadership
philosophy, his early careerexperiences and yes, that memo,
(00:44):
the bold call to action thatshook headlines and sparked
conversation across the force.
You'll hear how he viewsownership, leadership and
attitude as the foundation forany great commander, and why
striving for perfection isn'tabout ego but about being worthy
of the mission and the peopleyou lead.
In part two, we take theconversation deeper into mental
(01:04):
health legacy and the human sideof.
In part two, we take theconversation deeper into mental
health legacy and the human sideof leadership.
General Minahan shares openlyabout his own experience seeking
therapy while in command, hisfather's impact on his
leadership journey and what itmeans to lead in a way that's
consistent, authentic andanchored in purpose.
Even when things get tough,from the flight line to the
front office, from discipline todecision-making in the gray
(01:25):
areas, general Minahan doesn'thold back.
So, whether you're a newsupervisor, a seasoned commander
or someone who just wants tolead a little better today than
you did yesterday, this is aconversation you don't want to
miss.
Let's get into part one.
Well, thank you, sir.
So much for joining me on thispodcast.
I am so excited to talk withyou today and learn.
(01:46):
It's been great to kind of seeyour career, as I was working at
AMC and now getting to see youon the other side.
So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, thank you, it's an honor to be back with you.
You're my wing woman, so it'scool that the band's somewhat
back together.
And then my time at AMC wasamazing, you know, I loved every
second of it.
The team, especially the youknow, the team that babysat me
for three years just didenormous things for the country,
for the world, for all thegoodness that happens in this
(02:16):
nation.
It's a treat to brag about themagain and also be back with you
, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Ability command is the best, for sure there's
nothing about it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I am not shy about sharing that.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
There's no bias here whatsoever.
So how's retirement lifetreating you?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's good.
I don't know if you're going toshow the video during the
podcast, but I'm rocking somelonger hair and I've certainly
got my facial hair going.
I think I'm checking the normaldude retiree look right now.
It's been fantastic.
You know, I've got to be closeto my parents.
I live two blocks from myparents.
My pop has some health issuesthat I'm helping out with and I
(02:55):
moved down here just in time forthe hurricane season and we got
schwacked by two.
So it was great to be in closeproximity to them while we went
through that challenge.
And then just being able to godo things with my kids which I
haven't been able to, you know,peel away from.
You know all that.
The balance is really cool.
But I won't lie to you, it's abig adjustment.
You know, when you're doingsomething for almost 35 years,
(03:18):
when you're around that highfunctioning team, when you're
around that juice, thatadrenaline pump on a daily basis
, when you're around that talent, you know both those that wear
the uniform, the civilians, thefamily members all of that is
(03:38):
tough, tough, tough to not bearound right now.
So, but I'm happy to be whereI'm at and I'm happy to also
continue to work mobilityequities in my next life, you
know.
so that's what I'm trying tofigure out how do I keep ringing
the bell on what I think isimportant so that our airmen
have everything they need to besuccessful, you know, in the
battle skies, for wherever thosemay be?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Definitely, and even just talking to you and seeing
how your succession has kind ofgone following, everyone still
talks about General Minahan,what he contributed to AMC, and
so it's so great to talk to youon this side and kind of see
what you've learned and whatyou've brought to the table
throughout your career.
So it's a great opportunity tojust talk with you about all the
(04:17):
different things and leadership, and I mean we could go on and
on.
I think this episode could befive hours if we really wanted
it to be.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Hey, if you need that , I've got time for you.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I also see that you're rocking an Air Force One
polo shirt.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I do.
You know I never thought in amillion years.
You know I was the 19th AirLufthansa Commander at Little
Rock and then was told I wasgoing to go command at the 89th
and I was like you've got thewrong guy.
I mean, there is no way.
What I learned is that team inthe 89th is magnificent,
everything from the presidentialsupport, you know, all the way
down through the combatantcommanders.
(04:51):
Certainly you know the Congress, all the officials that are
entitled to that travel Reallyreally humbling to be around
that.
And you know the Air Force Oneteam, you know, coming off of
the election cycle right nowthey really really pour out, as
(05:11):
does the entire 89th during theelection cycle.
So I thought I'd wear this tohonor what they did during this
election cycle, which was justreally move mountains.
All the diplomacy that's goingon with all the hotspots right
now is you know.
In addition, they don't take aknee on all the missions that
they need to do.
So a shout out to the Sam Foxteam and the PAG.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And I think this is just a reminder for how much I
mean we keep talking aboutmobility, but mobility does so
much and is really a linchpinfor the Air Force and for joint
forces.
And I mean, obviously I'mpublic affairs so we know all
the talking points.
But without mobility, doing allthese what would almost be
considered random missions thatyou don't think about, we
(05:53):
wouldn't be successful in whatwe are as a country in a lot of
different ways.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You're right.
So I've said that I've yet tobe challenged on this, and I've
said it on stage for almost theentire three years is that the
mobility forces are the mostrelied upon force in the history
of warfare.
And I'm not saying that to bearrogant, I'm not saying that
because I'm looking for sympathy.
It's both a comment oneverybody's success depends on
(06:18):
us and it's also a comment onwhat's at stake if we don't get
this right.
You know.
So you know I'm really.
It's really not a somethingthat I have to say for my ego,
but you know we exist for otherpeople's success in Air Mobility
Command.
We exist for other people'ssuccess, and so that's
everything.
You know the standard.
You know the standard.
(06:38):
You know four mission sets whenit comes to airlift aero
refueling, air medicalevacuation and then the global
air mobility support system,which is all the stuff on the
ground to make it accessible.
But it's everything from, youknow, the port operations to the
passenger operations, to DVlift.
Certainly, you know, and DVlift has a unique aspect to it
(07:00):
that most people don't thinkabout it's the nuclear command
and control aspect.
You know people focus on thecomfortable seats and perhaps
the flight attendants, but theyreally need to focus on the
nuclear command and controlaspect of that mission, very,
very important.
So you know we intend to doeverything right.
In Air Mobility Command there'sa wide spectrum of missions that
we do.
Each one requires precision,professionalism, you know, a
(07:23):
dedication to make sure it goesright.
One requires precision,professionalism, you know, a
dedication to make sure it goesright.
And, and I think you know, wedo a tremendous job at that and
there's always room forimprovement.
You're never there, but I willshare this.
You know the 89th.
One of their calling statementsis perfection is the standard,
and I think people misinterpretthat to say we are perfect.
(07:44):
That's not the point.
You know nobody's perfect.
You know this is a humanendeavor.
Humans aren't perfect.
So you never reach perfection.
But, boy, you should sure tryand you should have tough,
honest debriefs during the times.
You know at all times.
But you know, especially whenyou have some challenges out
(08:04):
there and some outcomes thatweren't weren't ideal, and just
make sure itself you hold your,make sure that you hold yourself
accountable to the perfectionstandard and that you're always
striving for it.
I've got a lot of missionsunder my belt from the time I
was a lieutenant to the time Iwas a general and I've never
flown the perfect one, never.
I've come very close on ahandful of times, but the
(08:29):
majority of the times we sitdown with the rest of the crew
we talk about all the things wecould have done better, and then
we endeavor to do it better thenext time, and that's what it's
about.
It's about that that perfectionis the standard and that strive
for it.
You know, and hopefully peoplebetter than me can meet it, but
I'll, but I'll still keep tryingas hard as I can.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, and you talked about all those missions that
you have under your belt.
You did.
You've retired at 35 years.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Just shy of 35 years.
Just shy of 35 years.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
So you got not only mission sets, commands, growth,
RETC, and so there's a lot ofleadership stuff that you
learned in these past 35 years.
I'd love to hear more aboutkind of what your leadership
philosophy is and how that builtfrom the time you were a cadet
second lieutenant until you werea general.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right, you know the cadet time at ROTC at Auburn was
tremendous.
You know I was fortunate,especially my first professor of
aerospace studies who was aC-130 pilot tremendous.
You know, I was fortunate,especially my first professor of
aerospace studies who was aC-130 pilot, which you know
resolved me even more to be aHerc driver when I got into the
Air Force.
But you know, even before that,you know, plan A in my life was
(09:36):
be a pilot in the United StatesAir Force.
My dad's an Air Force officer,my granddad is an Air Force
officer, my granddad's a plankholder in the United States Air
Force.
He flew bomber missions inWorld War II.
He flew airlift missions inKorea and all I wanted growing
up, anytime he was in the house,is I wanted him to tell me war
stories, tell me war stories,tell me war stories.
And so I didn't have plan B.
(10:00):
Plan A is be a pilot in theUnited States Air Force.
No, I was lucky enough to getinto Auburn.
I was lucky enough to get apilot slot.
I was lucky enough to haveleadership that when I failed
completely my freshman yearacademically and I mean that in
the literal and figurative sensewhen I came back the summer
(10:20):
between my freshman andsophomore year and completely
changed majors, walked in I ownmy mistake with the professor of
aerospace studies, colonelButterfield, and I said this
freshman year is not going todefine me, it was all a loss.
You got to trust me.
Everything was a loss myfreshman year.
And I said I am going to fitthe four-year degree that I'm
(10:43):
changing to into the next threeyears.
I will graduate on time and Istill want to be a pilot in the
United States Air Force.
Now that is a tremendous riskthat that colonel took on Cadet
Mike Manahan to say you know Iwatched him be, you know, not
optimal during his freshman yearand then give me enormous
opportunity to redeem myselfover the next three years and
(11:06):
still pursue plan A and then beable to go to pilot training.
And then one thing I want toreally emphasize here is my
first squadron out of pilottraining was the 61st Tactical
Airlift Squadron at Little RockAir Force Base, the Green
Hornets.
That was a tough squadron in agreat way and there's some talks
(11:28):
I've given in the past where Italk about they taught me the
nobility of what we do, nobilitybeing noble.
Your value to that squadron wasbased solely on the performance
, your performance in thecockpit.
So I'm not saying that that isthe exact leadership that I
mimicked when I was a squadroncommander, but I'm here to tell
you that if you were not good inthe cockpit so I'm not saying
that that is the exactleadership that I mimicked when
I was a squadron commander, butI'm here to tell you that if you
were not good in the cockpit,you had no role in that squadron
(11:54):
.
So it taught me very early youbetter have your act together.
Minahan in the cockpit,practicing radio calls,
rehearsing the checklist Iwanted to be the co-pilot that
the squadron commander wanted tofly checklist.
I wanted to be the co-pilotthat the squadron commander
wanted to fly with.
I wanted to be the co-pilotthat people picked to be in the
right seat during their checkrides.
I wanted to be on the hardestmissions and I worked hard to
(12:16):
make sure that when I walkedinto the briefing room that they
were going to do nothing butsay, boy, lieutenant Minhan was
prepared and had his acttogether.
So you know, I learned it tough.
Those were the old Vietnam.
You know those.
You know that was about the 20year point when the Vietnam guys
(12:39):
were retiring, and so thenobility and that commitment to
be incredible at your job.
And that's the point hereCredibility at your primary job,
at your job.
And that's the point here.
Credibility at your primary jobmatters most.
And when I first came into AirMobility Command as commander, I
wrote a letter to the forcesaying what I value most is your
ability to do your job.
I'm going to grade you againstthe standard.
I don't care about all thevolunteer stuff.
(12:59):
I don't care if you're aphenomenal exec.
I don't care about theextracurricular activities.
What I care about is how you doyour job, and your job better
meet standards.
I'll do my job as a commander.
I'll make sure that theorganized training equip is
there.
I'll make sure that there's notan atmosphere that you have to
be perfect, that you are allowedto learn and move along.
(13:20):
But I want to be clear.
The expectation is that you doyour job well.
If there is a magic wand andone spell to cast across an
entire force, it would be doyour job.
That's it.
We don't have to overthink this.
So that's you know.
I learned that from my veryfirst squadron as I became a
(13:41):
wing commander my time at LittleRock, I had an acronym called
OLA, o-l-a, and it kind of, youknow, developed a little bit
from my experience growing up.
My experience as a squadroncommander and then getting to
the wing level is it's all aboutownership, leadership and
attitude.
You know ownership you have toown your outcomes.
That's what that first squadrontaught me, minahan own your
(14:03):
outcome.
Leadership sometimes being agood leader is being a good
follower.
Sometimes being a good leaderis stepping into a role you
weren't prepared for and justbeing able to handle the
dynamics.
And sometimes being a goodleader means you're a commander
or supervisor, and you need tobe awesome at that.
And you know, in the warmupsession you and I talked about
this our airmen deservephenomenal supervision and
(14:26):
commanders Period, dot, noexcuse.
And so you are allowed to learn, you are allowed to grow, but
the expectation is that you'redelivering phenomenal
supervision and leadership.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So that's leadership and then attitude.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think attitude matters most.
You know there are some peoplethat just always happen to be
there when you need them.
You know they just kind of findtheir way to where there's an
issue and their leadership canmake a difference.
Positive attitudes, overcomingchallenges, not being brought
down by the things that aregoing wrong, having a impact
(15:02):
beyond your designated role andso that people around you and
organizations around you canfeel the positivity coming out.
I think those are allincredible.
And then the last one I'll leadyou with is the worthiness
aspect of this right, and thisis especially.
You know, I got asked a bunchin the last three years what
(15:24):
keeps you up at night?
And not much keeps me up atnight.
Keeping me up at night isnormal family stuff, like
everybody else, but on theprofessional side, what keeps me
up at night is my worthiness,and so worthiness matters.
You know we have to be worthyof America's blood and treasure
that are gifted to us ascommanders and supervisors and
airmen that are gifted to us ascommanders and supervisors and
(15:45):
airmen.
I have to be worthy as anaircraft commander of the 50
Army souls in the back of myC-130 as we're going into
Baghdad, balad, mosul, you nameit.
I have to be worthy.
As a wing commander at LittleRock, of the 5,000 airmen in
that wing getting after missionsin Iraq and Afghanistan and all
the things.
As a commander of 110,000airility Command, I have to be
(16:08):
worthy, you know.
So this worthiness is a thing.
Am I saying it should keep youup at night to the point that
you don't sleep?
Absolutely not.
Am I saying that you shouldponder it every night as you
close your eyes and say I had agreat day, but I got to work
harder tomorrow because myAirmen sure are working their
tails off and therefore I've gotto be worthy of it and I'm
(16:29):
going to work just hardertomorrow to make sure that they
have everything they need to besuccessful.
So that's kind of a little bitof the maturity of the
philosophy and then, as Icategorized it, moving forward.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And it's incredible all the distinctions that you
brought up during this time, ofwhen you were a cadet, when you
were a lieutenant, kind ofentering your first squadron, to
when you led at AMC.
And probably my favorite thingthat you mentioned was the
worthiness of being a leader,because a lot of times I feel
like our leaders don'tunderstand the responsibility
(17:04):
that they take.
By leading a team as even aslittle as two people, you are
really taking those person'slives into your hand, even if
you're not in the military.
By being a manager of twopeople, even in the corporate
world, you have theresponsibility of being
supportive to them, making surethat their career is good,
because, no matter what, theircareer and their life at work is
(17:25):
going to seep into theirpersonal life, and so by you
taking care of them at work, itseeps into their personal life
and then everything is good, aslong as they feel taken care of.
That is a huge responsibility,and for them to dedicate their
time to you during the day, it'sa big responsibility and you
should feel worthy of that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I think it's right.
You know, the most importantline in our oath of office is
that I will well and faithfullydischarge the duties of the
office upon which I'm about toenter, and it's a recipient of
all the lines before it and it'salso the line closest to God,
you know.
So that's how I justify itbeing, but it really speaks to
(18:02):
what you just said, right, Imean, I will well and faithfully
.
Well and faithfully dischargethe duties of the office upon
which I'm about to enter.
It's unfortunate, but I believethis.
I think we've growninappropriately into a situation
where the safe play is rewardedbest.
So if you take no risk, youwill neither highlight yourself
(18:27):
positively or negatively and thesystem will move you along.
But the penalty comes with theairman, as you mentioned people
and the mission.
So you will not move the needleon airman and mission and
therefore it's an overallnegative.
So we've got to create a systemwhere we say we really have to
(18:50):
rise up, take risks, understandthem, not take reckless risks,
not take foolish risks,understand the risks we're
taking the second, the third andthe fourth orders.
But we also are in a positionwhere we can't make the safe
play, especially the higherleadership you get.
You've got to be bold.
We say this all the time Bebold, take risks.
(19:12):
But it's really hard to say well, what does that mean for you?
What does that mean for you?
What does that mean for youindividually, airman?
What does that mean for you?
Squadron-wise, flight-wise,shift-wise, guard, mount-wise,
you name it, whatever way youwant to divvy up the teammates
that you work with.
What does that mean for us?
(19:33):
So you know, I think that we'vegot to shift gears and we've
got to say let's get out of thiscomfort zone, which rewards
individuals, and let's get intothis uncomfortable zone which
rewards airmen and mission.
That's where we need to drive.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
What would you say to the younger airmen maybe those
that don't necessarily have therank but do have the experience
and the ideas, who want to takebold moves, that are
encountering what I've heard asthe frozen middle, where their
managers or whomever is kind ofstuck in what has been the
status quo, but they know, ifthey took a bolder step, that
(20:09):
things could change.
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
This is the hardest part, right?
So I've been asked thisquestion a lot.
You're on a stage in front of2000 people going, you know.
Do you want them to give themiddle finger to their commander
?
No, I don't want that.
Do you want them to give themiddle finger to their commander
?
No, I don't want that.
But I want them to berelentless.
Okay, but here, you know,actually I would.
(20:34):
I would phrase my response tothe command teams.
You know, you, we're going totalk about my memo later, I
believe.
Yeah, that memo was one of ninememos, and one of the later
memos was a line that said ifthere is a barrier between you
executing the tasks in this memo, then I put my email and my
phone number then call me.
(20:54):
So we talked about exceptionalleadership and supervision.
Are you setting the conditionsin your unit so that you are
actually hearing from theprofessionals and the experts
that are out there that have thethings, or are you shutting it
down inappropriately?
You know, and if it's a, youknow, and if it's an issue that
is really a big one, myexpectations is they'll,
(21:17):
respectively jump echelon, youknow.
So, hey, squadron commander,you know I'm not saying tweet it
or use Facebook or whatever.
Sir, you know, I think thisidea is so good enough I'm going
to share it with the groupcommander or I'm going to share
it with the group superintendentthere's respectful ways to do
that and continue to pushing.
But I, you know, I love you knowthis Air Force was founded on
(21:40):
being firebranded.
You know, we were the Mustangs,we were the rebellion, okay,
and we've kind of turned intothe entity we rebelled from.
You know, if we're not careful,we will be the lethargic status
quo.
Only look at things.
(22:02):
You know things in terms ofplatforms, don't look at things
in terms of effects.
And so we need to embrace thepeople that are out there and
relentless with the crazy ideas.
It doesn't mean that everythingthat they want is going to come
true, but it should mean thateverything that they want should
be heard and consideredstrongly.
So I realize it's a littledelicate.
(22:25):
It's easy for me to say right,it's harder for an airman, first
class to do that.
I get that, but I wantcommanders that actually set
expectations and say I'm goingto give you a venue to be heard.
You might not get yes, but ifit's a no, it's going to be a no
, with a qualification andhopefully, a path to get to yes,
and I would never in any partof my career want somebody that
(22:50):
could help us win be unheard.
I mean, we got to setconditions better than that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And the amazing people that are in our Air Force
, the military, the breadth oftheir experience and their ideas
.
We don't know what's possibleyet because we haven't heard all
of these crazy ideas.
Imagine if we had heard all ofthe crazy ideas.
Even if they're wrong, younever know what they might spin
(23:14):
up.
A wrong idea can spin up a goodidea.
I think that that's what youwere encouraging during your
time at Mobility Command.
I mean, even now there's riskthat's been taking place, but
it's experimental risk to seewhat's possible, and that's when
it comes to how long we cankeep planes up in the air, which
is huge.
(23:35):
That's a huge part of what ourcapabilities lie into.
So by taking exceptional butexperimental risk, you can kind
of see what's possible, andseeing the possibilities is
where your potential for growthkind of lies.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, it's, you know.
So I went to an ALS classpretty early in my command the
first year, not in the firstcouple of months, but maybe at
the one-year point.
And you know, I asked thestudents you know there's
50-something in the room and Isaid, hey, give me an example.
You know, when General Brownsays accelerate change give me
(24:15):
an example of acceleration orchange, or give me an example
where you're taking risk.
And God bless them.
They were unable to answer thequestion.
You know, in answering thequestion they were actually
asking the question.
Again, it's not their fault.
I'm not critiquing them, youknow.
And so you know.
(24:36):
When someone would raise theirhand and say, do things quicker
and better and more efficiently,I'm like, yes, yes, but give me
an example where you or yourunit did something.
They couldn't do it, so thenthat resulted in more homework
for them.
I said, okay, I'm coming backtomorrow and I'm going to go
around and I'm going to say giveme an example where you could
(24:56):
take risks.
I'm not looking for theairplane mechanic to work on me
in the dental chair.
Okay, that's not the type ofrisk I'm looking for.
But go and show me where youcan look at accelerate and
change, where you can look attake risk, and tell me the
things in your job jar that youcould do differently.
That would be awesome.
The next day was amazing.
(25:17):
I mean, you know we wererunning out of pen and paper to
keep up with the crazy idea.
So that's a reflection of theirleadership and commanders that
they couldn't answer thatquestion.
So who sat down with the airmenof those units, with General
Brown's accelerate change orlose, and said this is what it
means to us?
Who sat down with the airmenand went through action order
(25:41):
you know name, name, whatever,bravo and said how can we trim
bureaucracy out of ourorganization?
Who sat down with my memo as acommander or supervisor and said
what does this mean to us?
What is Minahan requiring of us?
And I think you'll find not toomany people take that extra
(26:01):
level and say hey, this is whatit means to us and this is what
I'm looking for.
But what a great world it wouldbe to activate exactly what you
talked about when it comes tothe power and the imagination
and the curiosity of our airmenand unleash that.
They're incredible.
They're incredible.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
They're incredible.
Get the old dudes out of theway.
The most random ideas, and alot of them are very strange and
weird, but some of them arespot on and you'll never know,
unless you weed through all ofthe other ones, you're like
actually that one might work.
It sounds crazy, but it mightwork.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I love it.
Well, I love that atmosphere.
You know, you know there's yougotta have some governance.
I mean, I'm, you know, you know, even moving forward in these
realms, you got to havegovernance, but you know.
So that's where you know that Iwas lucky that that you know
that happened fairly early on mycommand, because it taught me
about the importance of holdingthe command echelon accountable
(26:54):
to the.
Hey look, you know, myexpectations are this.
My expectations are you'retaking this, you are sitting
down and you are discussing whatit means for us, because I
don't want to lose, acceleratechange or lose.
I'm not up for that last orlose.
So here's how Mike Minahan andAMC and this awesome team that
(27:18):
we have is not going to lose.
So, anyways, I think you knowthat was very good, but it gets
at unleashing the power of whatalready exists.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
So kind of going into something that was already
mentioned.
But I would love to talk alittle bit about the memo.
You can go ahead and roll rightinto that, if that's okay with
you, and I'd love to hear kindof your thoughts and if you want
to go ahead and give a quickbackground on it.
And then I'd love to hear kindof what happened after that memo
(27:50):
, especially seeing from apublic affairs perspective what
I saw kind of happened that waytoo.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, god bless public affairs.
So it's funny because it'sknown as the memo, and even on
my LinkedIn post this morning Iput hashtag memo.
So you know I'm calling it thememo, but it really was an order
.
You know, and I had been incommand about a year not quite a
(28:16):
year and a half where it wasthe beginning of 2023 in late
January, and this was going tobe the summer of consequence for
my command.
You know I had pushed as hardas I could for this exercise
mobility guardian to be a reallybold commitment and statement
(28:36):
on getting mobility up to thechallenge of the Pacific.
Up to the challenge of thePacific, and it was apparent to
me during that time that eventhough there was strong
resonance, there wasn't strongresonance throughout the entire
echelon of command.
So I'm talking every diversitythat you can pick Guard, active
Duty, reserve Officer, nco,senior NCO, all the way down to
(28:58):
the newest airmen in the ranks.
You know how do I heal away thechallenges that comes to the
penetration of message andreally be.
Hey, this is, you know, the day, the, even though the memo was
leaked before february, it was aone february.
This is february.
(29:18):
We've got till july to reallyput the throttles in and get
after these things.
So you know, as a commander,those are things I worry about.
You know, the last thing I needis to take a swing at Mobility
Guardian and not hit the ballout of the park.
Too much riding on it, you know, too much for the two problem
(29:38):
statements that we developed,not ready to fight and win
inside the first island chain,not integrated, ready and agile
enough to win, and there weresome things that led up, you
know, the ATA or AFA speech andthings like that.
So I wrote a memo which wasreally in order, saying here is
my expectations and here are thethings that I want this command
(30:03):
to really focus on leading upto Mobility Guardian.
So the memo was leaked, theclassification stamp was
stripped off it, somebody put iton social media and that
started a pretty tough couple ofweeks for me personally, the
front office certainly, the PAteam certainly, and you know it
(30:28):
was on the Drudge Report, it wason all the news agencies, it
went all around the world and Iwould say, for you know, first
of all, you've not lived tillyou walk home and tell your wife
you're about to be fired, and Iwould say I had anxiety for
three days.
I had anxiety for three daysand on the third day I'll get a
(30:52):
little spiritual here but thebig man took it off my shoulders
, okay, I mean, he just liftedit off of me.
I gave it to him and I thought,even at day three here's what
I've, here's what I know.
I am right, I've learnedsomething.
(31:15):
I know who my friends are andthis if and if this is God's way
of putting me earlier to bewith my dad, who has some health
, uh challenges, then I'm good.
I'm good.
And after that it really wasoff my shoulders.
Here's what I regret.
I regret that it was leaked,okay, and I regret that that
(31:36):
leak caused my leadership, someconsternation, our success in
(32:00):
Mobility Guardian, and it'sresponsible for our success as a
command all the way through theend of my tour there.
So I don't walk away from it.
There were eight other ordersthat followed it.
It had to go out on that venuebecause I had to get to all of
Air Mobility Command.
And I'll tell you right now.
You know, people don't knowthat there were eight other
(32:21):
orders and the reason is becausethey were on the classified
side.
That's what happens when yougive orders on a classified
network.
Nobody knows about them.
So that's why it went out onthe unclass network.
So you know I stand by thosefour things.
You know I was right.
(32:42):
I hope I'm wrong in thatcorrectness.
You know I'm driving areadiness that is going to both
deter and, you know, deliver adecisive victory.
I learned something.
I mean there are some things Iwould do a little bit different,
but not a lot.
And then the amount of support,which doesn't come through so
(33:02):
much in the public spaces, wasunbelievable and, you know, gave
me a lot of confidence movingforward.
And then I am grateful thatthey chose not to relieve me
because of me, not because of me.
They chose not to relieve meNot because of me, not because
of me.
I was fully prepared for it.
(33:22):
But I was grateful because wegot to take that order and put
it into action and deliver oneverything it said we were going
to do so.
That's a unique opportunity tohave and I'm grateful for those
that extended me some grace, andI'm also ecstatic that we got
to work that as hard as we didfor my whole command.
(33:44):
So that's my opening salvo onthe order.
How did I do?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It sounds great.
I appreciate that insightbecause, obviously, from the
public affairs standpoint, I sawall of which was on the news
and I saw some of the statementsthat were put out, and so it's
a different it's always from adifferent lens of how you see
things on the news versus what'sactually happening behind the
door on the computer.
All of that, I think what stoodout the most to me is that you
(34:12):
decided to take a risk and youstood by that risk because you
saw the importance of it.
What would you say?
Because I feel like this isstarting to become a theme in
our conversation but what wouldyou say to those that, in their
heart of hearts, know that thereneeds to be a risk taken, but
they're scared of theconsequences of it or they're
scared of failing?
What would you?
say to those people.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, it's good.
Let me back up just a littlebit.
You might have to remind me ofyour question again, but I want
to really highlight that.
This gets back to that oath.
I knew the order.
I didn't recklessly put that.
I weighed all the options onsipper and nipper and ran it
(34:55):
through the process to getclassified, and you know so.
I knew it was prickly.
You know, I knew it was prickly.
I didn't think it would getleaked.
There's some folks out therethat think I did it on purpose.
I didn't.
You know I don't.
I don't like to catch, have myleadership caught off guard.
You know so.
But I also knew it was needed.
(35:17):
You know this gets back to that.
You know that part of the oathof well and faithfully, you know
.
You know there there is a pointin a career where you have got
I mean, this is commanderbusiness.
I am in.
You know.
God bless them.
110,000 of America's sons anddaughters are counting on this
command to do its organizedtraining and equip so that it is
(35:39):
successful on a battlefield, ina battle sky, battle sea.
You name it, you know.
So you can grade me on that.
Okay, I don't want to be gradedon.
You know, get to that point,our homework will be graded in
combat.
You know, get to that point,our homework will be graded in
(36:01):
combat.
And if it's a failure, my lackof courage to issue the orders
and do the command needed tomake this command, you know,
successful shouldn't be theshouldn't be what, what failed
us.
So you know, I, I realizeexactly what you're asking here.
You know there is a point inyour career, what you're asking
here.
You know there is a point inyour career.
I mean, you know, first of all,you know 34, you know, if Mike
(36:21):
Minahan's order caught you bysurprise 32 years into my career
, then you hadn't been payingattention for the last 32 years.
Okay, I've not changed.
Okay, no, I'm not saying thatpeople need to, you know, hover
over me and watch my whole 32years.
But that is consistent with whoMike Minahan is and how Mike
(36:43):
Minahan leads, you know.
So my first bit of advice wouldbe you know you've got to lead
like you, ok, and you've got todo things consistent, deliberate
, thoughtful, all of that.
You know, people that hadproblems with my order thought I
was challenging civilianauthority.
I'm not, you know, trying to becutesy with a prediction on
(37:06):
China.
I'm not, but I know that thereneeds to be tension on purpose
and there needs to be tension ontimeline.
You got to be moresophisticated than fight tonight
and there needs to be tensionon timeline.
You've got to be moresophisticated than fight tonight
.
Okay, and nobody cares about atimeline that may or may not
(37:27):
happen in 2035.
You can't possibly know what youneed in the future until you
know how you, what the commander, has to take into account and
then move his organizationforward or her organization
(37:48):
forward, and doing it in ameaningful way.
You know there's a joint teamcounting on Mike Minahan to be
successful.
There's a joint team countingon air mobility command to be
successful, regardless of yourrole, and that's our highest
obligation.
That's our highest obligation.
So you know, my advice would beto those that are out there
that feel that they're on thatcliff that I was on before I hit
(38:10):
send on that, that need to sayhave I done everything I can to
make everybody around me awareof this?
Am I doing commander businessin good order and discipline?
Is it legal, moral, ethical?
If all those boxes are checked,then at least if you're working
for me, then I'm going toprotect you.
I'm going to do my best.
(38:32):
Hopefully that's the atmosphereand the environment throughout
the echelons here, but Americansare known for bold leadership
and my expectation would be thatthat's rewarded, regardless of
the service or the echelon thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
It does, and it's at the place where, if we're too
afraid to make change, thenthere will never be any change.
We're only going to be at thestatus quo.
It's going to take getting outof our comfort zone, taking risk
and really taking a jumpforward and figuring out what
risk is important to you and Ithink where I what I'm hearing
(39:11):
is that this was so important toyou.
You saw the potential for whatcould and couldn't happen, that
you knew you needed to dosomething and your leadership
style this was kind of youranswer to that situation.
All the problem solving all ofwhat you saw was basically like
we have to make a huge changehere and unless I have some sort
(39:35):
of tipping point that shows howdire it is or it could be,
people aren't going to listen tome and I'm not saying it was
like a scream out, saying like,listen to me.
It was more of like hey, let'sget our act together and really
see what could possibly happenand we just need to prepare for
it.
And here's how we're going toprepare for it.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And think about the data, the data points.
I had right.
I had the debrief of theAfghanistan withdrawal.
I had the Ukraine response.
I had a set of data points thatgave me concern about not just
the readiness of AMC but thereadiness of the entire joint
(40:14):
team we were supporting and whatwe really need to do to be able
to explode into theater we weresupporting and what we really
need to do to be able to explodeinto theater.
I mean, that's you know, it'snot just you know.
We're a system of systems,we're a family.
We all need to have our acttogether.
You know, it's probably thepoint where I realized I'm big
into this role thing.
You know, you look at your OPRand it says your job
(40:40):
responsibilities.
You know, even, as you knowfrom your whole career in the
Air Force.
It tells you what you look atyour OPR and it says your job
responsibilities.
You know even, as you know fromyour whole career in the Air
Force, it tells you what you'reresponsible for, but it doesn't
really address what your role is.
Examples um, my role as asquadron commander of the 40th
Airlift Squadron, screamingEagles, was to lead for three
years doing four months on, fourmonths off in the desert.
My role was to be successful incombat under a brutal ops tempo
(41:06):
Four months on, four months off, four months on, four months
off, four months on, four monthsoff, forever.
My role as the 19th AirliftWing Squadron Commander was to
be the commander that putmobility standards on a former
AATC base.
(41:26):
So it used to be an AATC base,two commanders before me.
It went to Air Mobility Command.
He divorced the wings.
The commander right before mecreated an identity.
My job was to bring themobility standards.
When I was the commander of an89th Airlift Wing, what we
talked about earlier.
My job was to survive the 2012elections.
Okay, I thought so.
(41:48):
Those are roles Different thanresponsibilities.
Think about your role.
What's my role here?
Your role, what's my role here?
What I thought my role was goinginto the AMC command was I
thought my role was going to beget AMC ready to fight, and what
(42:09):
I learned is that it's geteverybody ready to fight, okay.
So I'm not being audacious here.
I'm not sticking my screwdriverin someone else's job jar, but
I am the intersection of yourreadiness and my readiness.
I know whether you're packed upand really ready to go.
I know whether you can meetyour doc statement or not.
(42:30):
I know if the C-17 is sitting onthe ramp and you say you're
ready but there's nobody behindthe airplane.
I know what's in the back ofthe airplane and whether it's
dripping fuel and has to landprior to crossing the pond
because you didn't drain it.
I know if the passengers arereally packed up and manifested
the way they should be.
I know if your cargo is Hasdexcertified, dip clearance
(42:51):
certified you name it, I, youknow.
So I got this role as the help,if you will.
That has an appreciation forpeople's readiness beyond just
mine, and so that's really whatit turned into.
Mobility guardian was a bigpart of it, but you know there's
an enormous amount of you know,I think if there's airman,
(43:16):
leader, supervisors out therewondering, you know, do I need
to be provocative this way?
You know my gut feeling isthere's something around them
that needs to be fixedaggressively, that their
instinct is probably right.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And there's ways to do it without being like there's
living in your authenticity.
To do it without being likethere's living in your
authenticity there's and being agood leaders.
There's ways to make changewithout coming off like a jerk
or, yeah, passive, aggressive orall of these things.
There's ways to do itappropriately, to figure out
what works for you well, andthis is, this is a fact.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I mean you can choose another.
I mean there's amazing airmenbehind me, you know.
If you don't like mike minahan,pick another, you, you know,
you've you, I mean you've.
You have to have the honestconversation anytime you're
doing something like this, thatthey that might not be palatable
, but that palatability shouldnever reverse engineer your way
(44:16):
into how you command and getyour echelon ready.
You know this is about.
You know your command duty isto put a team on the field that
can dominate and win, not catchour partners off guard by our
lack of readiness or ability.
I mean, can you imagine ascenario where the president
(44:39):
thinks something's good and it'snot, you know?
Or the Joint Chiefs, or theSecDef, you know.
So that's actually the worstcrime, you know, is that there's
an expectation that yourreadiness can deliver and it
actually can't.
So let's be on the side ofaggressive attainment of
(45:02):
readiness and capability todominate the battlefield, battle
skies, battle seas, you know,whatever battle space, you name
it, and make sure that our youknow it's not up to us whether
we're used in combat or not.
We'll leave that to thecivilian minors.
Okay, but the basis, thefoundation of trust that has to
(45:22):
exist is that the team that Icommand, the team that you
command, you know is ready to go.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
And this goes back to where you were talking about
accelerate change or lose.
And you're talking about thelowest airman.
When you have to be thattranslation within all the
groups, so that you can describesitting at the room with joint
chiefs of staff, with presidentof the United States, you, as
(45:50):
the youngest airman, should beable to understand why the
president needs you to turn thatwrench on that plane.
And that is command.
That's like a huge part ofcommand when it comes to
understanding and being able totranslate.
So if they understood theirresponsibility of being ready
tonight and ready to fighttonight, all of that, then they
(46:11):
would be, I don't want to saymore eager to do their job, but
more dedicated, creating thatperfection that the 89th was
talking about.
Like driven by perfection.
That that's all of that.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, I think you got , you're on it and you have.
So the you know this is, youknow as you grow up, right, you
grow, you know.
I'm often asked what you know,what do you wish you had learned
earlier than you than youactually learned it?
Well, you know, I come from acrew airplane so I always
appreciated the efforts of thecollective, how it all comes
(46:43):
together, but never really gotthat deep PhD level perspective
on that till you're at the.
You know squadron command andhire.
You know it, it it really is,and you know an entire team that
makes it go.
Your importance to the missionisn't proportional to your
(47:05):
proximity to the cockpit.
So I get it.
You know, at the end of the day, the crew's going to go forward
.
Right, they're going to dotheir thing.
And the ties of all the supportwill be severed and they'll go
out and execute.
It'll be awesome.
But everybody's important ingetting that out.
It doesn't matter how close youare to the coffee.
I mean you matter whetheryou're making a box lunch,
(47:27):
turning a wrench, checking aweather forecast, doing a
deployment line, doing a PAarticle.
I mean it's not being overlysensitive to everybody on the
team.
It is fact.
I got one story, you know I wasworking for a phenomenal wing
(47:48):
commander at Travis, jim Vetri,and we were getting ready for an
operational readinessinspection which you know are
great fun and we were launchingout on the first plane and an
engine stand.
We're waiting on an enginestand.
Well, the engine stand wentthrough the inspection.
(48:11):
When the inspection was done,the brake didn't get released on
it.
On one of the wheels.
The tug drove the engine standto the airplane.
By the time it got to theairplane the wheel was now half
a wheel because it just gotground down.
What does the loadmaster do?
He rejects the load, or sherejects the load because it's
(48:33):
not safe to get on the airplane.
It can't be brought up on theairplane without causing damage,
you know.
So the entire wing shut downbecause of release the brake on
the engine stand.
(48:53):
That's not a comment on that oneindividual, that's a comment on
the entire system.
You know, do I wish that personhad done it Absolutely, but I
also wish everybody else thatwalked past it had done the same
thing.
So that's how it's allconnected and it's just facts.
You know you're touchingmission you don't even know
about every day and there'ssomebody counting on you to get
(49:17):
your job done.
So I think this is a criticalpiece.
This actually goes all the wayback to the very beginning.
Man, magic wand, do your joball day long, every day, all the
time, and and if we can get tothat point, you know some some
things we don't need tooverthink.
You know, if you're a pilot, bethe best daggone pilot you can
be.
If you're in the support field,do it all.
(49:39):
Awesome.
Two standards exceed thestandards, same thing for
maintenance, same thing formedics Fly, fix, support, all
the things.
And that would be a great placeto start from and I think we're
heading that way.
It just needs to be reallyhighlighted that that's what
mattered most.
When everything gets, you know,a little bit cluttered, you
(50:01):
know, make the main thing, themain thing and the main thing is
your job.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's great.
Our airmen are important, theydo wonderful things and it's
incredible seeing and hearingall these stories from your
career.
That's it for part one of myconversation with General Mike
Manahan.
Next Tuesday we'll be back withpart two.
You won't want to miss it.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Lead Into it.
If you enjoyed this episode, itwould mean a lot to me if you
(50:26):
would leave a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify to help
future listeners.
If you want to learn more aboutthe podcast or me, go to
leadintoitco.
That's leadintoitco.
Thanks again.
You're listening to episode 51 of the Lead Intuit
podcast.
Welcome to Lead Intuit, thepodcast that explores what it
really takes to lead withcourage, clarity and commitment.
I'm your host, sarah Greco, andtoday I am honored to bring you
a powerful two-partconversation with a leader whose
(00:22):
voice, vision and vulnerabilityhave shaped the Air Force and
inspired leaders around theworld.
In this two-part special, I sitdown with retired General Mike
Minahan, former commander of theAir Mobility Command, to talk
about leadership at the highestlevels.
In part one, we dig intoGeneral Minahan's leadership
philosophy, his early careerexperiences and yes, that memo,
(00:44):
the bold call to action thatshook headlines and sparked
conversation across the force.
You'll hear how he viewsownership, leadership and
attitude as the foundation forany great commander, and why
striving for perfection isn'tabout ego but about being worthy
of the mission and the peopleyou lead.
In part two, we take theconversation deeper into mental
(01:04):
health legacy and the human sideof.
In part two, we take theconversation deeper into mental
health legacy and the human sideof leadership.
General Minahan shares openlyabout his own experience seeking
therapy while in command, hisfather's impact on his
leadership journey and what itmeans to lead in a way that's
consistent, authentic andanchored in purpose.
Even when things get tough,from the flight line to the
front office, from discipline todecision-making in the gray
(01:25):
areas, general Minahan doesn'thold back.
So, whether you're a newsupervisor, a seasoned commander
or someone who just wants tolead a little better today than
you did yesterday, this is aconversation you don't want to
miss.
Let's get into part one.
Well, thank you, sir.
So much for joining me on thispodcast.
I am so excited to talk withyou today and learn.
(01:46):
It's been great to kind of seeyour career, as I was working at
AMC and now getting to see youon the other side.
So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, thank you, it's an honor to be back with you.
You're my wing woman, so it'scool that the band's somewhat
back together.
And then my time at AMC wasamazing, you know, I loved every
second of it.
The team, especially the youknow, the team that babysat me
for three years just didenormous things for the country,
for the world, for all thegoodness that happens in this
(02:16):
nation.
It's a treat to brag about themagain and also be back with you
, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Ability command is the best, for sure there's
nothing about it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I am not shy about sharing that.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
There's no bias here whatsoever.
So how's retirement lifetreating you?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's good.
I don't know if you're going toshow the video during the
podcast, but I'm rocking somelonger hair and I've certainly
got my facial hair going.
I think I'm checking the normaldude retiree look right now.
It's been fantastic.
You know, I've got to be closeto my parents.
I live two blocks from myparents.
My pop has some health issuesthat I'm helping out with and I
(02:55):
moved down here just in time forthe hurricane season and we got
schwacked by two.
So it was great to be in closeproximity to them while we went
through that challenge.
And then just being able to godo things with my kids which I
haven't been able to, you know,peel away from.
You know all that.
The balance is really cool.
But I won't lie to you, it's abig adjustment.
You know, when you're doingsomething for almost 35 years,
(03:18):
when you're around that highfunctioning team, when you're
around that juice, thatadrenaline pump on a daily basis
, when you're around that talent, you know both those that wear
the uniform, the civilians, thefamily members all of that is
(03:38):
tough, tough, tough to not bearound right now.
So, but I'm happy to be whereI'm at and I'm happy to also
continue to work mobilityequities in my next life, you
know.
so that's what I'm trying tofigure out how do I keep ringing
the bell on what I think isimportant so that our airmen
have everything they need to besuccessful, you know, in the
battle skies, for wherever thosemay be?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Definitely, and even just talking to you and seeing
how your succession has kind ofgone following, everyone still
talks about General Minahan,what he contributed to AMC, and
so it's so great to talk to youon this side and kind of see
what you've learned and whatyou've brought to the table
throughout your career.
So it's a great opportunity tojust talk with you about all the
(04:17):
different things and leadership, and I mean we could go on and
on.
I think this episode could befive hours if we really wanted
it to be.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Hey, if you need that , I've got time for you.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I also see that you're rocking an Air Force One
polo shirt.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I do.
You know I never thought in amillion years.
You know I was the 19th AirLufthansa Commander at Little
Rock and then was told I wasgoing to go command at the 89th
and I was like you've got thewrong guy.
I mean, there is no way.
What I learned is that team inthe 89th is magnificent,
everything from the presidentialsupport, you know, all the way
down through the combatantcommanders.
(04:51):
Certainly you know the Congress, all the officials that are
entitled to that travel Reallyreally humbling to be around
that.
And you know the Air Force Oneteam, you know, coming off of
the election cycle right nowthey really really pour out, as
(05:11):
does the entire 89th during theelection cycle.
So I thought I'd wear this tohonor what they did during this
election cycle, which was justreally move mountains.
All the diplomacy that's goingon with all the hotspots right
now is you know.
In addition, they don't take aknee on all the missions that
they need to do.
So a shout out to the Sam Foxteam and the PAG.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And I think this is just a reminder for how much I
mean we keep talking aboutmobility, but mobility does so
much and is really a linchpinfor the Air Force and for joint
forces.
And I mean, obviously I'mpublic affairs so we know all
the talking points.
But without mobility, doing allthese what would almost be
considered random missions thatyou don't think about, we
(05:53):
wouldn't be successful in whatwe are as a country in a lot of
different ways.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
You're right.
So I've said that I've yet tobe challenged on this, and I've
said it on stage for almost theentire three years is that the
mobility forces are the mostrelied upon force in the history
of warfare.
And I'm not saying that to bearrogant, I'm not saying that
because I'm looking for sympathy.
It's both a comment oneverybody's success depends on
(06:18):
us and it's also a comment onwhat's at stake if we don't get
this right.
You know.
So you know I'm really.
It's really not a somethingthat I have to say for my ego,
but you know we exist for otherpeople's success in Air Mobility
Command.
We exist for other people'ssuccess, and so that's
everything.
You know the standard.
You know the standard.
(06:38):
You know four mission sets whenit comes to airlift aero
refueling, air medicalevacuation and then the global
air mobility support system,which is all the stuff on the
ground to make it accessible.
But it's everything from, youknow, the port operations to the
passenger operations, to DVlift.
Certainly, you know, and DVlift has a unique aspect to it
(07:00):
that most people don't thinkabout it's the nuclear command
and control aspect.
You know people focus on thecomfortable seats and perhaps
the flight attendants, but theyreally need to focus on the
nuclear command and controlaspect of that mission, very,
very important.
So you know we intend to doeverything right.
In Air Mobility Command there'sa wide spectrum of missions that
we do.
Each one requires precision,professionalism, you know, a
(07:23):
dedication to make sure it goesright.
One requires precision,professionalism, you know, a
dedication to make sure it goesright.
And, and I think you know, wedo a tremendous job at that and
there's always room forimprovement.
You're never there, but I willshare this.
You know the 89th.
One of their calling statementsis perfection is the standard,
and I think people misinterpretthat to say we are perfect.
(07:44):
That's not the point.
You know nobody's perfect.
You know this is a humanendeavor.
Humans aren't perfect.
So you never reach perfection.
But, boy, you should sure tryand you should have tough,
honest debriefs during the times.
You know at all times.
But you know, especially whenyou have some challenges out
(08:04):
there and some outcomes thatweren't weren't ideal, and just
make sure itself you hold your,make sure that you hold yourself
accountable to the perfectionstandard and that you're always
striving for it.
I've got a lot of missionsunder my belt from the time I
was a lieutenant to the time Iwas a general and I've never
flown the perfect one, never.
I've come very close on ahandful of times, but the
(08:29):
majority of the times we sitdown with the rest of the crew
we talk about all the things wecould have done better, and then
we endeavor to do it better thenext time, and that's what it's
about.
It's about that that perfectionis the standard and that strive
for it.
You know, and hopefully peoplebetter than me can meet it, but
I'll, but I'll still keep tryingas hard as I can.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, and you talked about all those missions that
you have under your belt.
You did.
You've retired at 35 years.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Just shy of 35 years.
Just shy of 35 years.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
So you got not only mission sets, commands, growth,
RETC, and so there's a lot ofleadership stuff that you
learned in these past 35 years.
I'd love to hear more aboutkind of what your leadership
philosophy is and how that builtfrom the time you were a cadet
second lieutenant until you werea general.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right, you know the cadet time at ROTC at Auburn was
tremendous.
You know I was fortunate,especially my first professor of
aerospace studies who was aC-130 pilot tremendous.
You know, I was fortunate,especially my first professor of
aerospace studies who was aC-130 pilot, which you know
resolved me even more to be aHerc driver when I got into the
Air Force.
But you know, even before that,you know, plan A in my life was
(09:36):
be a pilot in the United StatesAir Force.
My dad's an Air Force officer,my granddad is an Air Force
officer, my granddad's a plankholder in the United States Air
Force.
He flew bomber missions inWorld War II.
He flew airlift missions inKorea and all I wanted growing
up, anytime he was in the house,is I wanted him to tell me war
stories, tell me war stories,tell me war stories.
And so I didn't have plan B.
(10:00):
Plan A is be a pilot in theUnited States Air Force.
No, I was lucky enough to getinto Auburn.
I was lucky enough to get apilot slot.
I was lucky enough to haveleadership that when I failed
completely my freshman yearacademically and I mean that in
the literal and figurative sensewhen I came back the summer
(10:20):
between my freshman andsophomore year and completely
changed majors, walked in I ownmy mistake with the professor of
aerospace studies, colonelButterfield, and I said this
freshman year is not going todefine me, it was all a loss.
You got to trust me.
Everything was a loss myfreshman year.
And I said I am going to fitthe four-year degree that I'm
(10:43):
changing to into the next threeyears.
I will graduate on time and Istill want to be a pilot in the
United States Air Force.
Now that is a tremendous riskthat that colonel took on Cadet
Mike Manahan to say you know Iwatched him be, you know, not
optimal during his freshman yearand then give me enormous
opportunity to redeem myselfover the next three years and
(11:06):
still pursue plan A and then beable to go to pilot training.
And then one thing I want toreally emphasize here is my
first squadron out of pilottraining was the 61st Tactical
Airlift Squadron at Little RockAir Force Base, the Green
Hornets.
That was a tough squadron in agreat way and there's some talks
(11:28):
I've given in the past where Italk about they taught me the
nobility of what we do, nobilitybeing noble.
Your value to that squadron wasbased solely on the performance
, your performance in thecockpit.
So I'm not saying that that isthe exact leadership that I
mimicked when I was a squadroncommander, but I'm here to tell
you that if you were not good inthe cockpit so I'm not saying
that that is the exactleadership that I mimicked when
I was a squadron commander, butI'm here to tell you that if you
were not good in the cockpit,you had no role in that squadron
(11:54):
.
So it taught me very early youbetter have your act together.
Minahan in the cockpit,practicing radio calls,
rehearsing the checklist Iwanted to be the co-pilot that
the squadron commander wanted tofly checklist.
I wanted to be the co-pilotthat the squadron commander
wanted to fly with.
I wanted to be the co-pilotthat people picked to be in the
right seat during their checkrides.
I wanted to be on the hardestmissions and I worked hard to
(12:16):
make sure that when I walkedinto the briefing room that they
were going to do nothing butsay, boy, lieutenant Minhan was
prepared and had his acttogether.
So you know, I learned it tough.
Those were the old Vietnam.
You know those.
You know that was about the 20year point when the Vietnam guys
(12:39):
were retiring, and so thenobility and that commitment to
be incredible at your job.
And that's the point hereCredibility at your primary job,
at your job.
And that's the point here.
Credibility at your primary jobmatters most.
And when I first came into AirMobility Command as commander, I
wrote a letter to the forcesaying what I value most is your
ability to do your job.
I'm going to grade you againstthe standard.
I don't care about all thevolunteer stuff.
(12:59):
I don't care if you're aphenomenal exec.
I don't care about theextracurricular activities.
What I care about is how you doyour job, and your job better
meet standards.
I'll do my job as a commander.
I'll make sure that theorganized training equip is
there.
I'll make sure that there's notan atmosphere that you have to
be perfect, that you are allowedto learn and move along.
(13:20):
But I want to be clear.
The expectation is that you doyour job well.
If there is a magic wand andone spell to cast across an
entire force, it would be doyour job.
That's it.
We don't have to overthink this.
So that's you know.
I learned that from my veryfirst squadron as I became a
(13:41):
wing commander my time at LittleRock, I had an acronym called
OLA, o-l-a, and it kind of, youknow, developed a little bit
from my experience growing up.
My experience as a squadroncommander and then getting to
the wing level is it's all aboutownership, leadership and
attitude.
You know ownership you have toown your outcomes.
That's what that first squadrontaught me, minahan own your
(14:03):
outcome.
Leadership sometimes being agood leader is being a good
follower.
Sometimes being a good leaderis stepping into a role you
weren't prepared for and justbeing able to handle the
dynamics.
And sometimes being a goodleader means you're a commander
or supervisor, and you need tobe awesome at that.
And you know, in the warmupsession you and I talked about
this our airmen deservephenomenal supervision and
(14:26):
commanders Period, dot, noexcuse.
And so you are allowed to learn, you are allowed to grow, but
the expectation is that you'redelivering phenomenal
supervision and leadership.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So that's leadership and then attitude.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I think attitude matters most.
You know there are some peoplethat just always happen to be
there when you need them.
You know they just kind of findtheir way to where there's an
issue and their leadership canmake a difference.
Positive attitudes, overcomingchallenges, not being brought
down by the things that aregoing wrong, having a impact
(15:02):
beyond your designated role andso that people around you and
organizations around you canfeel the positivity coming out.
I think those are allincredible.
And then the last one I'll leadyou with is the worthiness
aspect of this right, and thisis especially.
You know, I got asked a bunchin the last three years what
(15:24):
keeps you up at night?
And not much keeps me up atnight.
Keeping me up at night isnormal family stuff, like
everybody else, but on theprofessional side, what keeps me
up at night is my worthiness,and so worthiness matters.
You know we have to be worthyof America's blood and treasure
that are gifted to us ascommanders and supervisors and
airmen that are gifted to us ascommanders and supervisors and
(15:45):
airmen.
I have to be worthy as anaircraft commander of the 50
Army souls in the back of myC-130 as we're going into
Baghdad, balad, mosul, you nameit.
I have to be worthy.
As a wing commander at LittleRock, of the 5,000 airmen in
that wing getting after missionsin Iraq and Afghanistan and all
the things.
As a commander of 110,000airility Command, I have to be
(16:08):
worthy, you know.
So this worthiness is a thing.
Am I saying it should keep youup at night to the point that
you don't sleep?
Absolutely not.
Am I saying that you shouldponder it every night as you
close your eyes and say I had agreat day, but I got to work
harder tomorrow because myAirmen sure are working their
tails off and therefore I've gotto be worthy of it and I'm
(16:29):
going to work just hardertomorrow to make sure that they
have everything they need to besuccessful.
So that's kind of a little bitof the maturity of the
philosophy and then, as Icategorized it, moving forward.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And it's incredible all the distinctions that you
brought up during this time, ofwhen you were a cadet, when you
were a lieutenant, kind ofentering your first squadron, to
when you led at AMC.
And probably my favorite thingthat you mentioned was the
worthiness of being a leader,because a lot of times I feel
like our leaders don'tunderstand the responsibility
(17:04):
that they take.
By leading a team as even aslittle as two people, you are
really taking those person'slives into your hand, even if
you're not in the military.
By being a manager of twopeople, even in the corporate
world, you have theresponsibility of being
supportive to them, making surethat their career is good,
because, no matter what, theircareer and their life at work is
(17:25):
going to seep into theirpersonal life, and so by you
taking care of them at work, itseeps into their personal life
and then everything is good, aslong as they feel taken care of.
That is a huge responsibility,and for them to dedicate their
time to you during the day, it'sa big responsibility and you
should feel worthy of that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I think it's right.
You know, the most importantline in our oath of office is
that I will well and faithfullydischarge the duties of the
office upon which I'm about toenter, and it's a recipient of
all the lines before it and it'salso the line closest to God,
you know.
So that's how I justify itbeing, but it really speaks to
(18:02):
what you just said, right, Imean, I will well and faithfully
.
Well and faithfully dischargethe duties of the office upon
which I'm about to enter.
It's unfortunate, but I believethis.
I think we've growninappropriately into a situation
where the safe play is rewardedbest.
So if you take no risk, youwill neither highlight yourself
(18:27):
positively or negatively and thesystem will move you along.
But the penalty comes with theairman, as you mentioned people
and the mission.
So you will not move the needleon airman and mission and
therefore it's an overallnegative.
So we've got to create a systemwhere we say we really have to
(18:50):
rise up, take risks, understandthem, not take reckless risks,
not take foolish risks,understand the risks we're
taking the second, the third andthe fourth orders.
But we also are in a positionwhere we can't make the safe
play, especially the higherleadership you get.
You've got to be bold.
We say this all the time Bebold, take risks.
(19:12):
But it's really hard to say well, what does that mean for you?
What does that mean for you?
What does that mean for youindividually, airman?
What does that mean for you?
Squadron-wise, flight-wise,shift-wise, guard, mount-wise,
you name it, whatever way youwant to divvy up the teammates
that you work with.
What does that mean for us?
(19:33):
So you know, I think that we'vegot to shift gears and we've
got to say let's get out of thiscomfort zone, which rewards
individuals, and let's get intothis uncomfortable zone which
rewards airmen and mission.
That's where we need to drive.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
What would you say to the younger airmen maybe those
that don't necessarily have therank but do have the experience
and the ideas, who want to takebold moves, that are
encountering what I've heard asthe frozen middle, where their
managers or whomever is kind ofstuck in what has been the
status quo, but they know, ifthey took a bolder step, that
(20:09):
things could change.
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
This is the hardest part, right?
So I've been asked thisquestion a lot.
You're on a stage in front of2000 people going, you know.
Do you want them to give themiddle finger to their commander
?
No, I don't want that.
Do you want them to give themiddle finger to their commander
?
No, I don't want that.
But I want them to berelentless.
Okay, but here, you know,actually I would.
(20:34):
I would phrase my response tothe command teams.
You know, you, we're going totalk about my memo later, I
believe.
Yeah, that memo was one of ninememos, and one of the later
memos was a line that said ifthere is a barrier between you
executing the tasks in this memo, then I put my email and my
phone number then call me.
(20:54):
So we talked about exceptionalleadership and supervision.
Are you setting the conditionsin your unit so that you are
actually hearing from theprofessionals and the experts
that are out there that have thethings, or are you shutting it
down inappropriately?
You know, and if it's a, youknow, and if it's an issue that
is really a big one, myexpectations is they'll,
(21:17):
respectively jump echelon, youknow.
So, hey, squadron commander,you know I'm not saying tweet it
or use Facebook or whatever.
Sir, you know, I think thisidea is so good enough I'm going
to share it with the groupcommander or I'm going to share
it with the group superintendentthere's respectful ways to do
that and continue to pushing.
But I, you know, I love you knowthis Air Force was founded on
(21:40):
being firebranded.
You know, we were the Mustangs,we were the rebellion, okay,
and we've kind of turned intothe entity we rebelled from.
You know, if we're not careful,we will be the lethargic status
quo.
Only look at things.
(22:02):
You know things in terms ofplatforms, don't look at things
in terms of effects.
And so we need to embrace thepeople that are out there and
relentless with the crazy ideas.
It doesn't mean that everythingthat they want is going to come
true, but it should mean thateverything that they want should
be heard and consideredstrongly.
So I realize it's a littledelicate.
(22:25):
It's easy for me to say right,it's harder for an airman, first
class to do that.
I get that, but I wantcommanders that actually set
expectations and say I'm goingto give you a venue to be heard.
You might not get yes, but ifit's a no, it's going to be a no
, with a qualification andhopefully, a path to get to yes,
and I would never in any partof my career want somebody that
(22:50):
could help us win be unheard.
I mean, we got to setconditions better than that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And the amazing people that are in our Air Force
, the military, the breadth oftheir experience and their ideas
.
We don't know what's possibleyet because we haven't heard all
of these crazy ideas.
Imagine if we had heard all ofthe crazy ideas.
Even if they're wrong, younever know what they might spin
(23:14):
up.
A wrong idea can spin up a goodidea.
I think that that's what youwere encouraging during your
time at Mobility Command.
I mean, even now there's riskthat's been taking place, but
it's experimental risk to seewhat's possible, and that's when
it comes to how long we cankeep planes up in the air, which
is huge.
(23:35):
That's a huge part of what ourcapabilities lie into.
So by taking exceptional butexperimental risk, you can kind
of see what's possible, andseeing the possibilities is
where your potential for growthkind of lies.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, it's, you know.
So I went to an ALS classpretty early in my command the
first year, not in the firstcouple of months, but maybe at
the one-year point.
And you know, I asked thestudents you know there's
50-something in the room and Isaid, hey, give me an example.
You know, when General Brownsays accelerate change give me
(24:15):
an example of acceleration orchange, or give me an example
where you're taking risk.
And God bless them.
They were unable to answer thequestion.
You know, in answering thequestion they were actually
asking the question.
Again, it's not their fault.
I'm not critiquing them, youknow.
And so you know.
(24:36):
When someone would raise theirhand and say, do things quicker
and better and more efficiently,I'm like, yes, yes, but give me
an example where you or yourunit did something.
They couldn't do it, so thenthat resulted in more homework
for them.
I said, okay, I'm coming backtomorrow and I'm going to go
around and I'm going to say giveme an example where you could
(24:56):
take risks.
I'm not looking for theairplane mechanic to work on me
in the dental chair.
Okay, that's not the type ofrisk I'm looking for.
But go and show me where youcan look at accelerate and
change, where you can look attake risk, and tell me the
things in your job jar that youcould do differently.
That would be awesome.
The next day was amazing.
(25:17):
I mean, you know we wererunning out of pen and paper to
keep up with the crazy idea.
So that's a reflection of theirleadership and commanders that
they couldn't answer thatquestion.
So who sat down with the airmenof those units, with General
Brown's accelerate change orlose, and said this is what it
means to us?
Who sat down with the airmenand went through action order
(25:41):
you know name, name, whatever,bravo and said how can we trim
bureaucracy out of ourorganization?
Who sat down with my memo as acommander or supervisor and said
what does this mean to us?
What is Minahan requiring of us?
And I think you'll find not toomany people take that extra
(26:01):
level and say hey, this is whatit means to us and this is what
I'm looking for.
But what a great world it wouldbe to activate exactly what you
talked about when it comes tothe power and the imagination
and the curiosity of our airmenand unleash that.
They're incredible.
They're incredible.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
They're incredible.
Get the old dudes out of theway.
The most random ideas, and alot of them are very strange and
weird, but some of them arespot on and you'll never know,
unless you weed through all ofthe other ones, you're like
actually that one might work.
It sounds crazy, but it mightwork.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I love it.
Well, I love that atmosphere.
You know, you know there's yougotta have some governance.
I mean, I'm, you know, you know, even moving forward in these
realms, you got to havegovernance, but you know.
So that's where you know that Iwas lucky that that you know
that happened fairly early on mycommand, because it taught me
about the importance of holdingthe command echelon accountable
(26:54):
to the.
Hey look, you know, myexpectations are this.
My expectations are you'retaking this, you are sitting
down and you are discussing whatit means for us, because I
don't want to lose, acceleratechange or lose.
I'm not up for that last orlose.
So here's how Mike Minahan andAMC and this awesome team that
(27:18):
we have is not going to lose.
So, anyways, I think you knowthat was very good, but it gets
at unleashing the power of whatalready exists.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
So kind of going into something that was already
mentioned.
But I would love to talk alittle bit about the memo.
You can go ahead and roll rightinto that, if that's okay with
you, and I'd love to hear kindof your thoughts and if you want
to go ahead and give a quickbackground on it.
And then I'd love to hear kindof what happened after that memo
(27:50):
, especially seeing from apublic affairs perspective what
I saw kind of happened that waytoo.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, god bless public affairs.
So it's funny because it'sknown as the memo, and even on
my LinkedIn post this morning Iput hashtag memo.
So you know I'm calling it thememo, but it really was an order
.
You know, and I had been incommand about a year not quite a
(28:16):
year and a half where it wasthe beginning of 2023 in late
January, and this was going tobe the summer of consequence for
my command.
You know I had pushed as hardas I could for this exercise
mobility guardian to be a reallybold commitment and statement
(28:36):
on getting mobility up to thechallenge of the Pacific.
Up to the challenge of thePacific, and it was apparent to
me during that time that eventhough there was strong
resonance, there wasn't strongresonance throughout the entire
echelon of command.
So I'm talking every diversitythat you can pick Guard, active
Duty, reserve Officer, nco,senior NCO, all the way down to
(28:58):
the newest airmen in the ranks.
You know how do I heal away thechallenges that comes to the
penetration of message andreally be.
Hey, this is, you know, the day, the, even though the memo was
leaked before february, it was aone february.
This is february.
(29:18):
We've got till july to reallyput the throttles in and get
after these things.
So you know, as a commander,those are things I worry about.
You know, the last thing I needis to take a swing at Mobility
Guardian and not hit the ballout of the park.
Too much riding on it, you know, too much for the two problem
(29:38):
statements that we developed,not ready to fight and win
inside the first island chain,not integrated, ready and agile
enough to win, and there weresome things that led up, you
know, the ATA or AFA speech andthings like that.
So I wrote a memo which wasreally in order, saying here is
my expectations and here are thethings that I want this command
(30:03):
to really focus on leading upto Mobility Guardian.
So the memo was leaked, theclassification stamp was
stripped off it, somebody put iton social media and that
started a pretty tough couple ofweeks for me personally, the
front office certainly, the PAteam certainly, and you know it
(30:28):
was on the Drudge Report, it wason all the news agencies, it
went all around the world and Iwould say, for you know, first
of all, you've not lived tillyou walk home and tell your wife
you're about to be fired, and Iwould say I had anxiety for
three days.
I had anxiety for three daysand on the third day I'll get a
(30:52):
little spiritual here but thebig man took it off my shoulders
, okay, I mean, he just liftedit off of me.
I gave it to him and I thought,even at day three here's what
I've, here's what I know.
I am right, I've learnedsomething.
(31:15):
I know who my friends are andthis if and if this is God's way
of putting me earlier to bewith my dad, who has some health
, uh challenges, then I'm good.
I'm good.
And after that it really wasoff my shoulders.
Here's what I regret.
I regret that it was leaked,okay, and I regret that that
(31:36):
leak caused my leadership, someconsternation, our success in
(32:00):
Mobility Guardian, and it'sresponsible for our success as a
command all the way through theend of my tour there.
So I don't walk away from it.
There were eight other ordersthat followed it.
It had to go out on that venuebecause I had to get to all of
Air Mobility Command.
And I'll tell you right now.
You know, people don't knowthat there were eight other
(32:21):
orders and the reason is becausethey were on the classified
side.
That's what happens when yougive orders on a classified
network.
Nobody knows about them.
So that's why it went out onthe unclass network.
So you know I stand by thosefour things.
You know I was right.
(32:42):
I hope I'm wrong in thatcorrectness.
You know I'm driving areadiness that is going to both
deter and, you know, deliver adecisive victory.
I learned something.
I mean there are some things Iwould do a little bit different,
but not a lot.
And then the amount of support,which doesn't come through so
(33:02):
much in the public spaces, wasunbelievable and, you know, gave
me a lot of confidence movingforward.
And then I am grateful thatthey chose not to relieve me
because of me, not because of me.
They chose not to relieve meNot because of me, not because
of me.
I was fully prepared for it.
(33:22):
But I was grateful because wegot to take that order and put
it into action and deliver oneverything it said we were going
to do so.
That's a unique opportunity tohave and I'm grateful for those
that extended me some grace, andI'm also ecstatic that we got
to work that as hard as we didfor my whole command.
(33:44):
So that's my opening salvo onthe order.
How did I do?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It sounds great.
I appreciate that insightbecause, obviously, from the
public affairs standpoint, I sawall of which was on the news
and I saw some of the statementsthat were put out, and so it's
a different it's always from adifferent lens of how you see
things on the news versus what'sactually happening behind the
door on the computer.
All of that, I think what stoodout the most to me is that you
(34:12):
decided to take a risk and youstood by that risk because you
saw the importance of it.
What would you say?
Because I feel like this isstarting to become a theme in
our conversation but what wouldyou say to those that, in their
heart of hearts, know that thereneeds to be a risk taken, but
they're scared of theconsequences of it or they're
scared of failing?
What would you?
say to those people.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, it's good.
Let me back up just a littlebit.
You might have to remind me ofyour question again, but I want
to really highlight that.
This gets back to that oath.
I knew the order.
I didn't recklessly put that.
I weighed all the options onsipper and nipper and ran it
(34:55):
through the process to getclassified, and you know so.
I knew it was prickly.
You know, I knew it was prickly.
I didn't think it would getleaked.
There's some folks out therethat think I did it on purpose.
I didn't.
You know I don't.
I don't like to catch, have myleadership caught off guard.
You know so.
But I also knew it was needed.
(35:17):
You know this gets back to that.
You know that part of the oathof well and faithfully, you know
.
You know there there is a pointin a career where you have got
I mean, this is commanderbusiness.
I am in.
You know.
God bless them.
110,000 of America's sons anddaughters are counting on this
command to do its organizedtraining and equip so that it is
(35:39):
successful on a battlefield, ina battle sky, battle sea.
You name it, you know.
So you can grade me on that.
Okay, I don't want to be gradedon.
You know, get to that point,our homework will be graded in
combat.
You know, get to that point,our homework will be graded in
(36:01):
combat.
And if it's a failure, my lackof courage to issue the orders
and do the command needed tomake this command, you know,
successful shouldn't be theshouldn't be what, what failed
us.
So you know, I, I realizeexactly what you're asking here.
You know there is a point inyour career, what you're asking
here.
You know there is a point inyour career.
I mean, you know, first of all,you know 34, you know, if Mike
(36:21):
Minahan's order caught you bysurprise 32 years into my career
, then you hadn't been payingattention for the last 32 years.
Okay, I've not changed.
Okay, no, I'm not saying thatpeople need to, you know, hover
over me and watch my whole 32years.
But that is consistent with whoMike Minahan is and how Mike
(36:43):
Minahan leads, you know.
So my first bit of advice wouldbe you know you've got to lead
like you, ok, and you've got todo things consistent, deliberate
, thoughtful, all of that.
You know, people that hadproblems with my order thought I
was challenging civilianauthority.
I'm not, you know, trying to becutesy with a prediction on
(37:06):
China.
I'm not, but I know that thereneeds to be tension on purpose
and there needs to be tension ontimeline.
You got to be moresophisticated than fight tonight
and there needs to be tensionon timeline.
You've got to be moresophisticated than fight tonight
.
Okay, and nobody cares about atimeline that may or may not
(37:27):
happen in 2035.
You can't possibly know what youneed in the future until you
know how you, what the commander, has to take into account and
then move his organizationforward or her organization
(37:48):
forward, and doing it in ameaningful way.
You know there's a joint teamcounting on Mike Minahan to be
successful.
There's a joint team countingon air mobility command to be
successful, regardless of yourrole, and that's our highest
obligation.
That's our highest obligation.
So you know, my advice would beto those that are out there
that feel that they're on thatcliff that I was on before I hit
(38:10):
send on that, that need to sayhave I done everything I can to
make everybody around me awareof this?
Am I doing commander businessin good order and discipline?
Is it legal, moral, ethical?
If all those boxes are checked,then at least if you're working
for me, then I'm going toprotect you.
I'm going to do my best.
(38:32):
Hopefully that's the atmosphereand the environment throughout
the echelons here, but Americansare known for bold leadership
and my expectation would be thatthat's rewarded, regardless of
the service or the echelon thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
It does, and it's at the place where, if we're too
afraid to make change, thenthere will never be any change.
We're only going to be at thestatus quo.
It's going to take getting outof our comfort zone, taking risk
and really taking a jumpforward and figuring out what
risk is important to you and Ithink where I what I'm hearing
(39:11):
is that this was so important toyou.
You saw the potential for whatcould and couldn't happen, that
you knew you needed to dosomething and your leadership
style this was kind of youranswer to that situation.
All the problem solving all ofwhat you saw was basically like
we have to make a huge changehere and unless I have some sort
(39:35):
of tipping point that shows howdire it is or it could be,
people aren't going to listen tome and I'm not saying it was
like a scream out, saying like,listen to me.
It was more of like hey, let'sget our act together and really
see what could possibly happenand we just need to prepare for
it.
And here's how we're going toprepare for it.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
And think about the data, the data points.
I had right.
I had the debrief of theAfghanistan withdrawal.
I had the Ukraine response.
I had a set of data points thatgave me concern about not just
the readiness of AMC but thereadiness of the entire joint
(40:14):
team we were supporting and whatwe really need to do to be able
to explode into theater we weresupporting and what we really
need to do to be able to explodeinto theater.
I mean, that's you know, it'snot just you know.
We're a system of systems,we're a family.
We all need to have our acttogether.
You know, it's probably thepoint where I realized I'm big
into this role thing.
You know, you look at your OPRand it says your job
(40:40):
responsibilities.
You know, even, as you knowfrom your whole career in the
Air Force.
It tells you what you look atyour OPR and it says your job
responsibilities.
You know even, as you know fromyour whole career in the Air
Force, it tells you what you'reresponsible for, but it doesn't
really address what your role is.
Examples um, my role as asquadron commander of the 40th
Airlift Squadron, screamingEagles, was to lead for three
years doing four months on, fourmonths off in the desert.
My role was to be successful incombat under a brutal ops tempo
(41:06):
Four months on, four months off, four months on, four months
off, four months on, four monthsoff, forever.
My role as the 19th AirliftWing Squadron Commander was to
be the commander that putmobility standards on a former
AATC base.
(41:26):
So it used to be an AATC base,two commanders before me.
It went to Air Mobility Command.
He divorced the wings.
The commander right before mecreated an identity.
My job was to bring themobility standards.
When I was the commander of an89th Airlift Wing, what we
talked about earlier.
My job was to survive the 2012elections.
Okay, I thought so.
(41:48):
Those are roles Different thanresponsibilities.
Think about your role.
What's my role here?
Your role, what's my role here?
What I thought my role was goinginto the AMC command was I
thought my role was going to beget AMC ready to fight, and what
(42:09):
I learned is that it's geteverybody ready to fight, okay.
So I'm not being audacious here.
I'm not sticking my screwdriverin someone else's job jar, but
I am the intersection of yourreadiness and my readiness.
I know whether you're packed upand really ready to go.
I know whether you can meetyour doc statement or not.
(42:30):
I know if the C-17 is sitting onthe ramp and you say you're
ready but there's nobody behindthe airplane.
I know what's in the back ofthe airplane and whether it's
dripping fuel and has to landprior to crossing the pond
because you didn't drain it.
I know if the passengers arereally packed up and manifested
the way they should be.
I know if your cargo is Hasdexcertified, dip clearance
(42:51):
certified you name it, I, youknow.
So I got this role as the help,if you will.
That has an appreciation forpeople's readiness beyond just
mine, and so that's really whatit turned into.
Mobility guardian was a bigpart of it, but you know there's
an enormous amount of you know,I think if there's airman,
(43:16):
leader, supervisors out therewondering, you know, do I need
to be provocative this way?
You know my gut feeling isthere's something around them
that needs to be fixedaggressively, that their
instinct is probably right.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And there's ways to do it without being like there's
living in your authenticity.
To do it without being likethere's living in your
authenticity there's and being agood leaders.
There's ways to make changewithout coming off like a jerk
or, yeah, passive, aggressive orall of these things.
There's ways to do itappropriately, to figure out
what works for you well, andthis is, this is a fact.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I mean you can choose another.
I mean there's amazing airmenbehind me, you know.
If you don't like mike minahan,pick another, you, you know,
you've you, I mean you've.
You have to have the honestconversation anytime you're
doing something like this, thatthey that might not be palatable
, but that palatability shouldnever reverse engineer your way
(44:16):
into how you command and getyour echelon ready.
You know this is about.
You know your command duty isto put a team on the field that
can dominate and win, not catchour partners off guard by our
lack of readiness or ability.
I mean, can you imagine ascenario where the president
(44:39):
thinks something's good and it'snot, you know?
Or the Joint Chiefs, or theSecDef, you know.
So that's actually the worstcrime, you know, is that there's
an expectation that yourreadiness can deliver and it
actually can't.
So let's be on the side ofaggressive attainment of
(45:02):
readiness and capability todominate the battlefield, battle
skies, battle seas, you know,whatever battle space, you name
it, and make sure that our youknow it's not up to us whether
we're used in combat or not.
We'll leave that to thecivilian minors.
Okay, but the basis, thefoundation of trust that has to
(45:22):
exist is that the team that Icommand, the team that you
command, you know is ready to go.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
And this goes back to where you were talking about
accelerate change or lose.
And you're talking about thelowest airman.
When you have to be thattranslation within all the
groups, so that you can describesitting at the room with joint
chiefs of staff, with presidentof the United States, you, as
(45:50):
the youngest airman, should beable to understand why the
president needs you to turn thatwrench on that plane.
And that is command.
That's like a huge part ofcommand when it comes to
understanding and being able totranslate.
So if they understood theirresponsibility of being ready
tonight and ready to fighttonight, all of that, then they
(46:11):
would be, I don't want to saymore eager to do their job, but
more dedicated, creating thatperfection that the 89th was
talking about.
Like driven by perfection.
That that's all of that.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, I think you got , you're on it and you have.
So the you know this is, youknow as you grow up, right, you
grow, you know.
I'm often asked what you know,what do you wish you had learned
earlier than you than youactually learned it?
Well, you know, I come from acrew airplane so I always
appreciated the efforts of thecollective, how it all comes
(46:43):
together, but never really gotthat deep PhD level perspective
on that till you're at the.
You know squadron command andhire.
You know it, it it really is,and you know an entire team that
makes it go.
Your importance to the missionisn't proportional to your
(47:05):
proximity to the cockpit.
So I get it.
You know, at the end of the day, the crew's going to go forward
.
Right, they're going to dotheir thing.
And the ties of all the supportwill be severed and they'll go
out and execute.
It'll be awesome.
But everybody's important ingetting that out.
It doesn't matter how close youare to the coffee.
I mean you matter whetheryou're making a box lunch,
(47:27):
turning a wrench, checking aweather forecast, doing a
deployment line, doing a PAarticle.
I mean it's not being overlysensitive to everybody on the
team.
It is fact.
I got one story, you know I wasworking for a phenomenal wing
(47:48):
commander at Travis, jim Vetri,and we were getting ready for an
operational readinessinspection which you know are
great fun and we were launchingout on the first plane and an
engine stand.
We're waiting on an enginestand.
Well, the engine stand wentthrough the inspection.
(48:11):
When the inspection was done,the brake didn't get released on
it.
On one of the wheels.
The tug drove the engine standto the airplane.
By the time it got to theairplane the wheel was now half
a wheel because it just gotground down.
What does the loadmaster do?
He rejects the load, or sherejects the load because it's
(48:33):
not safe to get on the airplane.
It can't be brought up on theairplane without causing damage,
you know.
So the entire wing shut downbecause of release the brake on
the engine stand.
(48:53):
That's not a comment on that oneindividual, that's a comment on
the entire system.
You know, do I wish that personhad done it Absolutely, but I
also wish everybody else thatwalked past it had done the same
thing.
So that's how it's allconnected and it's just facts.
You know you're touchingmission you don't even know
about every day and there'ssomebody counting on you to get
(49:17):
your job done.
So I think this is a criticalpiece.
This actually goes all the wayback to the very beginning.
Man, magic wand, do your joball day long, every day, all the
time, and and if we can get tothat point, you know some some
things we don't need tooverthink.
You know, if you're a pilot, bethe best daggone pilot you can
be.
If you're in the support field,do it all.
(49:39):
Awesome.
Two standards exceed thestandards, same thing for
maintenance, same thing formedics Fly, fix, support, all
the things.
And that would be a great placeto start from and I think we're
heading that way.
It just needs to be reallyhighlighted that that's what
mattered most.
When everything gets, you know,a little bit cluttered, you
(50:01):
know, make the main thing, themain thing and the main thing is
your job.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's great.
Our airmen are important, theydo wonderful things and it's
incredible seeing and hearingall these stories from your
career.
That's it for part one of myconversation with General Mike
Manahan.
Next Tuesday we'll be back withpart two.
You won't want to miss it.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Lead Into it.
If you enjoyed this episode, itwould mean a lot to me if you
(50:26):
would leave a review on ApplePodcasts or Spotify to help
future listeners.
If you want to learn more aboutthe podcast or me, go to
leadintoitco.
That's leadintoitco.
Thanks again.
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